A Geek History of Time - Episode 177 - Speedball, Penance, and Liberal Redemption Part II

Episode Date: September 24, 2022

BELLS Blow in her face and she'll follow you anywhere. You are destroying the Constitution of the United States may God have mercy on your souls. Good day. Yes. It's a very sad word. We could be saying that we just elected the right white man to power. That's creepy but that's a different category of creepy. Zitsu, Zitsu, Zitsu, Zitsu.

Gary Gai Gai. Of course he introduced zoning law. creepy but that's a different category of creepy. Z with most episodes I can bring him back to wrestling. Right, well he's got other people who work for him who also do things. And they can use mutate, kill and size into smaller worlds after all. Fuck you. I still don't give a shit about getting fake property in a fantasy game This is a key history of art. We connect nerds or you change it real quick. You can tell that I am not at play-lock because I'm kind of shook over that arm there phone, but I am demon.

And I am joined yet again by our illustrious boss from the Post. Dr. Daniel Cruz. Gabriel, how you doing? I'm pooping good, Damien. Thanks for having me. And, you know, we did just for a coordinate episode. And then if I had any sort of, if I had a modicum of professionalism,

I would have practiced what I was going to say to introduce myself this second time, knowing that that freight train was coming. But here we are. And so I'm rambling a bit. Damien, how were you today? Oh, I'm doing quite well. So we had back to school night last night for my kids.

And one of the teachers, their air conditioner was out, so it felt like I was back in school in Florida. Because it's 106 out here right now, which is not fun. The only thing that would make it more miserable is if it was a public school in Florida. So last night we had those conditions, but the kids all have their self portraits on their desks and my son's in seventh grade, it's a K-8 school,

my son's in seventh grade, and all the seventh grade teachers were all there and they gave a presentation. And I'm a teacher, so I know what I have to listen for and frankly I tell them ahead of time I'm like hey where do you need me you know that kind of thing and one of them was like oh your Williams dad I was like oh cool that's that's nice and he's the sweetest kid in the world etc etc and he'd done really well on his continents quiz so was very, very pleased about that because his love of trains has paid off.

I went to my daughter's class. And they did a self-portrait. And I realized my daughter draws the exact same way that I used to, which is unfortunate ultimately. But it was really neat to also see, like, oh, you have the same emphasis that I had. You have the same distortions in how you see things that I do and how you express it on a page. The other funny thing was though that I knew it was,

because I asked her, I was like, okay, where's your chair? She's like, no, you have to guess. And as I was just looking around, I went right over to the one that had the thickest book on the top of it, because she is 10 years old and she's presently reading War and Peace. I'm sorry. Yeah, like she's reading War and Peace. And I've asked her a few times, like so how is it? She's like, it's a lot of dinner parties so far.

And I'm like, cool, I guess. I, so she's still reading War and Peace. I'm just So she's still reading Warren. Just like get it. Yeah. I can make it through Doom. I can't imagine trying to take a shot at Warren piece. I think I probably have a better chance at Warren piece than Doom because at least Warren pieces is historical. Yeah. Doom is about, I don't like stories about sand. It's coarse and it gets everywhere. No, no. Godfrak. All right. So back to school night was a rousing success. Minus the sweatiness. But her teacher loves doing dumb dad jokes. And her teacher like, you know, when, when daughter introduced her,

are you her teacher? Is that, no, no, no, it's not digital learning anymore. But no, when, when she introduced me, she's like, Oh, you're, you're Julia's dad. I said, Yeah. And she says, Oh, yeah, I told a really stupid dad joke. And your daughter just like put her head in her, her palm and said, Oh, and I said, What? No, it's been she's like, No, my dad does that professionally. And that's when I was like, as a matter of fact, I do. Julia writes the wheel out for our show. And, you know, you should come see it. And so I was able to fly the school. So hopefully I'll get more patrons to capital punishment.

Yeah, that's what pun-based comics shows need is more people attending them. Yes. Well, on the topic of social diseases, which I consider puns to be one, I do it. We have a big first coming up as of the time of recording and that I am doing this. I'm engaging in an age long tradition for Latinos in general and Mexicans in particular. I am offering my daughter to the altar of soccer. And she is going to start her first youth season. This is the season. And I firmly believe that soccer is a social disease. I don't know

that there are many other games that can claim to have at the professional level included at least one decapitation. I'm sorry, you buried the lead there. You're not familiar with this? No. Oh, this was circa, I'd have to double check it, but it's like 2012, 2013 somewhere. Oh my God. There was a Brazilian professional game where those two teams that were playing one of the guys got a yellow card pulled on him.

Right. And so the player punched the ref. The ref stabbed the player. Is it nice normally a part of a, uh, a breath? I'd hear I don't know, but it seems like he was anticipating something. Brazilian rules maybe. Maybe. Yeah. It's also worth noting that like a lot of these countries don't serve alcohol at the games for reasons like this for what's about to happen. So the ref stabs the player, the player goes down. The family of the player rushes the field along with what becomes an avalanche of other fans. Oh my God. My team starts storming the opposing team, right, then start storming the field because they're like,

we'll screw this. They're not going to like, you know, do whatever they're about to do. We're going to stop them. And then it ends with the ref being quartered on the field. My God. And with and his head removed with the knife he used to stab the original player. Oh my God. And parade it around. he used to stab the original player. Oh my God. And parade it around. So I don't, we can talk about like traumatic brain injuries and concussions in the NFL all day.

And that's a worthy conversation to have. I don't know that any other sport has that as like a part of it. Wow. Like, I mean, it took the British army going on to an Irish pitch and mowing people down with guns to get close to them. That's not nearly as intimate.

No, no, it's not. Like, oh my God. Like, I remember there was a, I personally, I've never enjoyed soccer because there's, it's funny. I've never enjoyed soccer and I also never really enjoyed the Iron Man match between Brett Hart and Sean Michaels for the same reasons. That match is famous. It's one of the best Iron Man matches except I hate it because it was a zero, zero tie for 60 minutes. And that's a lot of soccer. And then it went into sudden death, which is kind of like penalty kicks, literally ending with Sean

Michaels kicking Bret Hart in the head. So penalty kick one. And I don't know, just I like more scoring in a game or more chance of scoring where like the norm isn't zero zero. But I've been told that I don't understand the storytelling aspects of it. I'm like, that's totally fair because that has always been my critique of people that don't like wrestling. And that's all these things their own languages that you learn the grammar and the syntax of and there are people who will see those kind of games where it's like a standstill basically for the whole match. And they're enthralled in it for the reasons that I can't imagine. But in retrospect, it's also kind of like trying, I think that's also kind of like people who enjoy

Dungeons & Dragons, third edition and three point five, right? Because D&D now is like Apple, right? It's like it's like it's an iPhone kind of user-friendlyness, but three five was like Linux, right? Like you you had to know the code in order to appreciate three five You had to have come from DOS Like you had to come from ADD, which was way worse in so many ways like three three oh and three five were a huge departure I remember because I was playing a game when that happened. And so we were there for that shift. And it was like, oh my god, this is so cool. This is stream lately. You don't have to calculate Thaco like. Yeah. It was that alone, you

know, but I was up with checking. It was 2013. When that 20 year old Brazilian amateur football referee was lynched beheaded and courted by a football spectators after he stabbed a player to death on a match he officiated on the 30th of June of 2013. Yeah, so that's... And like, part of me, like the grammar nerd in me is like, okay, lynched is an unlawful killing by a mob. Yes. Okay.

Then beheaded and then courted is in that order. So I would want to know was that just the first thing popped off and then they pulled it, like everyone was just pulling all at once or did they do that and they're like, okay, now everybody grab a limb and run. Like yeah. Yeah.

I remember there was a lightning strike that hit a pitch in, I wanna say Kenya, but I may well be wrong. But it killed like nine of the players on one team and two of the players on another team. And so the team that lost nine of its players sued the other team for witchcraft. Okay, you know, you know, ordinary,

international again, I'd ordinarily have laugh at that, but given what happened. Yeah, like playing the odds, it's like, I'd ordinarily have laugh at that, but given what happened. Yeah, like playing the odds. It's like, what did you do? You know, like I and do I personally believe and put stock in things like witchcraft or bruharia? No, do I? Am I so strong on my conviction? I'm going to talk trash about it. Also, no Well, and I'm am I willing to that, okay, I wasn't there. I could see, okay, if that's, you have visual evidence, okay, go ahead. Let's see how the

due process works. You know, like, God damn, I'll be heading. Like that's, like, I thought the war that started between Honduras and El Salvador was something. Yeah. Yeah. You think, no, this is just, this is visceral. This is intimate. This is this is a social disease. Yeah. This is a social disease. And you're taking your daughter to it. Awesome. Listen, the ancestors have to be a beast. It's not by my will alone that this happened. Sure. Sure. Do you know the origins of soccer? Like it's brutal. It's I by my will alone that this happened sure sure. Do you know the origins of soccer like it's brutal? It's I don't it was Englishman kicking around a Danish man's head

Which explains the no hands rule? Because that shit's gross and leaky. Yeah, also was Was token referencing that when he described the origins of golf in the habit? You've got the wrong partner I got you a show for that in the Hobbit. You've got the wrong partner. Got you a show for that. In the Hobbit, they referenced how I think a dwarf had beheaded a goblin of note, maybe a goblin king, and like the head flew and fell into a hole and that was the original. Yeah, and that was the origin of golf.

Yeah. And so I wonder if maybe he told him was referencing that. Maybe. I think maybe it's just taking the piss out of the Scottish. That would that would be the British thing to do. Yeah, what yeah. Though yeah, but it's it's that made sense in terms of the no hands rule. Yeah, as far as that goes. You don't want to you don't want to get you like you get down to your cuticles. I mean, come on. Yeah, it's gross. It's gross. And there's one thing the English were known for was hygiene in the early 1000s. I learned once the phrase that the English Navy was helped together with rum, sawdemy and the lash. And now every time

I think of them, that's all I can think. And that was, I believe that was famously Winston Churchill who said that. Yeah. Whereas another famous eloquent hawk, what's his name? Well, god damn it. What's his name? He died of cancer. He absolutely wanted America and England to go to war with Iraq and he was famous for being an atheist. Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens. Yeah we go. He said that boarding school was beatings, bullying, and buggery. And so, and he did not speak all that critically of it.

Like he also that it made him the man that he was. And I'm like, that quote is attributable to Winston Churchill is also consistent. I mean, this is the man who quote notably, quite notably said, you know, um, screw them Indians, right? Yeah, that was, I think, in a lot of different ways, in a lot of different ways. God, what a, what a while. Anyway, wait, that's not what we're here to talk about. No, we're here to talk about another atrocity. Yes, not the Bangladesh starvation of famine of like 1946. No, no, this is far worse.

Now, this is this is imaginary characters going through some severe trauma in a fictional universe So nowhere near as worse as as the British starvation of India. No, although It was for the purpose of endorsing the renewal of the Patriot Act. So You know the Fiction that it does serve a purpose to for the real life atrocities that we experienced. Anyway. Yeah. And I think you cannot divorce. And I've done a couple episodes on the Civil War being the Patriot Act.

And you cannot divorce the Civil War from the reality of the unending war that was promised to us that we would get more oil as though a war of conquest was good. By making the shot his friend in the face. Oh God, away with it. It was friend apologized. Yeah, that was the best. It's like God damn. Like, so what we're talking about from last time, as you recall, was speedball.

One of my top five favorite superheroes. And until I found him, probably he probably edged out Nightcrawler, to be honest, because I prefer Agile superheroes over strong superheroes, probably because I live in a fantasy world when I look at superheroes and characters that don't represent me are really cool. Yeah. So although my daughter is always amazed at how quick when I look at superheroes and characters that don't represent me are really cool.

Yeah. So although my daughter is always amazed at how quick an agile I am being the way that I look and I told her, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna be better at you than most of this stuff for frustratingly longer than you want me to be. Also, like being a parent does test your reflexes a lot. My real boy.

Yeah. That's it. Are your kids at a lot. Right. Boy. Yeah. Yeah. Are your kids at Grundel height age yet? Where you learn ball food? I. Oh my God. You will up your decks and your con when it comes to your junk because you will get them out of the way with a speed that is amazing. But you will also absorb many, many shots.

It's, it's, it's, and to be able to handle it, it's weird. It's having to fight the reflex to raise my knee. Yes. It's the problem because you can't knee a kid in the face. No, that's, that's generally frowned upon. Right? And not, so, but although I, the newborn is, is only like a month and a half old, ish and is already weighing is already in the three month old sizes.

So this kid is giant. Yeah. Yeah. So every day is arm day is what I'm saying. Oh my God. My my lats on my left arm, like I was so much better developed on the left side of my body, because I'm left handed as well. So like, I was just like, yeah, absolutely.

It was, it was funny. So much more, so much less fatigue through all those muscles. So, oh, man, I, I both envy and don't envy you at all. That age. And that's, that's how I've been as a parent the whole time though, is like, I've enjoyed every single stage, and I never wanted to go back. Yes.

Yes. But because ultimately, I think I'm better acclimated toward teenagers, which explains my career as a high school teacher. But I am imminently terrified. Yeah, no, well, because like I my oldest daughter and I assume will be the case with my youngest, I could be mistaken. They come from a proud line on both sides of their families of extremely strong-willed women and that's great. That is awesome. I want to facilitate that but also I've seen

what that looks like in time and space. And like from like the age of 12 to like 20. So you're like oh shit I'm the sharpening stone. I am the wet stone again which these children will be sharpening their blades. And I'm proud to offer myself to do so. But I also know what that was coming. It is a sacrifice. Yeah. So to toward a much better end though. So. Yeah. Well, speaking of teenagers, speedball. So Robbie Baldwin has, when, when last we left him, he was on a desperate plea or attempt to remain relevant through the early 2000s because he was on a reality TV show that was the New Warriors. And that's how the New Warriors were being funded, by the way, because by that point, Dwayne

Taylor had lost the Taylor Foundation. But so he goes essentially in the next two years. He goes Speedball does, goes from being this happy-go-lucky horny Spidey, like I said, to the liberal martyr fantasy, and that's ultimately the the thesis statement of these two episodes, probably three, because Spidey and Speedy go through a similar transformation in the Civil War. I think it's because they grew up during the global war on terror, and so they lost all innocence as a result. And in many ways, both Spidey and Speedy come out of it traumatized and psychologically scarred individuals who mirror the people that George W. Bush ends up painting portraits of 15 years later.

One of the things that struck me as I was rereading for this was, so I reread the Spider-Man arc in the War, but leading up through Back in Black, which is right before, like, what was it, the terrible one where he... One more day? One more day. Yeah. And so I stopped before that. But where, and there's something cathartic about seeing Peter Parker, so angry, he throws a cheap through like an apartment building, hoping to kill somebody. You know, it scratches an edge, but he displays a surprising, I forgot just how surprising an amount of naivete at the beginning. Right. Well, I think it's got daddy issues there. Yeah, with Tony, right?

And like he literally says, okay, if this is a blood oath, like I'm down, like, it's not knowing what's going to happen. And he doesn't, anyway, I don't want to get too far ahead, but like, yeah, he, this is not the kid who, this is, it struck me as like, this kid is supposed to have grown up in a very particular environment, like having to rely on wits and things like that. My guy, what are you doing? You know? I think on some level, it's that he became, I'm going to use the term domesticated for lack

of a better term right now. I think when he was a teenager, like we talked about last time, there's the indestructibility. And the frankly, the only person he had to care about was Aunt May, right? And as long as he stayed alive, Aunt May was pretty well taken care of. But then he's got Mary Jane. And now he's got more things that he's afraid to lose. And frankly, his world is more precious to him because he's also now in love. So now he's got two people,

and I think in many ways, two people might be too much for him to stay the kid that he was. We all gotta go up some time kind of thing. It's unfortunate, but I think I can understand like his need, his conflation of justice and with great power comes great responsibility. What that morphs into is backing law and order. Yeah. And I think it's that that need to have institutions that exist.

And it's like I said, it's a liberal fantasy. At least until he goes to Guantanamo Bay, I mean, the negative zone. I talk about that. So we start civil war with 529, Spider Man, amazing Spider Man 529. And he and Tony Stark have been working together for a while by this point. Tony is acting like the mentor to Peter Parker. He also has a creepy amount of access to Peter Mary Jane's bedroom via a talking equal statue. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Surveillance state much. The capabilities of that eagle remain ambiguous by the way. He never actually says there's no camera or no. He says it exactly like she

says it. And then he says, by the way, nice to have. Nice to have, because she asks, right. Yeah. Right. And he's, Peter by this point is a high school teacher, which I love. There was this great episode or issue where after he's unmasked, Doc Ock finds out and he can't get over the fact that Spidey was 15. And so he goes down to the school and the whole time he's attacking Spidey and Spidey

has to defend himself. And he's like, 15? You were 15. And he's just going, apesh it over the fact that he was 15. Which is that just before or after it? Is that before or after he makes his move on out, mate? Well after. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Yeah. Okay. So I forget when that happened. Yeah. Yeah. Cause yeah, Aunt May, dude, she apparently can get it. Cause she like Jay Jonah Jamison, Ottawa, she's a, she's a classy lady. She knows? Yeah. Dude, I mean, I have a friend who is forever

had a crush on Helen Mirren. And I'm pretty sure she could have her pick of the litter too. But yeah, so he's still acting like junior Park Newton. He's stark, who builds him his own iron spider outfit. And then they test drive the outfit. And Peter Parker asks him at one point. He says, you know, why he's doing all this? He's a quote, but I know you. Now I know how you think and I have a suspicion that there's more to all this help than helping me accessorize. So he does suspect him, but it's he's actively putting aside his skepticism through this whole thing, which feels very young 20s support the war kind of. And Stark doesn't deny it either.

What was that? Yeah, I was gonna say, and he doesn't even think to check the suit for what sort of metrics it's taking on him until he realizes that Tony knows about the Spidey sense. Yes, because he's like, I only have ever told Aunt May and Mary Jane about that. Yeah.

Which is fascinating to me, because it cantonizes that it's pheromonal. So now I get to do as plug his nose. Mm hmm. But uh, Stark says, quote, I want to hire you out in the open full time as my second, my protege, I want to go, I want you to go where I go, see what I see here, what I hear. I need someone I can trust implicitly to back me up. I find that interesting because here he has that. He has happy Hogan, he has pepper pots,

he has war machine. I was gonna say, Rodi, yeah. But Rodi serves to, oh, bad choice of words, has two bosses. Yes. Rodi has two bosses. He is loyal to the country. And, you know, and as much as those two things overlap, he's loyal to Tony, but there has been those conflicts. So Tony is like straight up grooming Peter. Yes, who is, I mean, accounting for in universe aging is in his, I was gonna say late 20s. Yeah.

So, and this is Tony actually already gearing up for Civil War. He's manipulating Peter six ways from Sunday and and Stark calls Peter family. He gives Peter gifts and he tells Peter that he needs things to be secret within the group. And the group is essentially the Avengers, but I think they've been disassembled or they've been reassembled by this point. Quote is the illuminati. No, no, he's not taking him over to the illuminati. This is because he says, quote, even Steve. Yeah. So like keeping shit from Captain America, like, this is a group within a group. This is Coltie shit.

And once Peter says, I'm on board, Stark takes him to Washington. And I bring this up because it's important to see the last ebbing of Peter's innocence and how he reacts to this manipulation, along with Speed Ball's arc. So, in Civil War I, which dropped in May of 2006, it opens with speedball talking to a TV producer about how many supervillains are holed up in Stanford, Connecticut. I don't think Stanford, Connecticut actually exists. It's Stanford, Connecticut, because that's the, that's interestingly, the headquarters of the WWE are in Stanford, Connecticut. Okay. Yeah. Now, it's a reality TV show.

Like I said, Nightthrasher has lost the ability to fund them. So Nightthrasher, Namorita, Speedball and a character named Microbe are all in the mix. Microbe is gross. That's his power. It's actually a pretty cool power, but it's still gross. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speedball has the line share of all the dialogue here, and he's absolutely brought into the reality TV aspect of it when microbe is actually bulking about what they're facing. And speedball's response to microbe saying, whoa, this is too much. He says, but think about the ratings, microbe. This could be the best episode of the entire second season. Six months we've been driving around this mid the mid west looking for goofballs to fight. And the best we've managed so far was a bum with a spray can and a wooden leg. This could be the episode that really puts the new warriors on the map, dude. We beat these guys and people stop bitching

about Nova leaving to leaving the show to go back into space. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. The annihilation storyline is phenomenal. I mean, that was actually, I think, the first time I really started taking the Guardians of Galaxy seriously. And the whole annihilation storyline,

it was an absolute coming out party for Nova. It was really cool. And he comes into this later on, including the what if issue where he comes back. It's like what if annihilation came to earth and he comes back and they're still in the middle of the Civil War. So it comes back early. And they're fighting. And he's like, what the hell are you fighting over? Like we need to band together. Annihillis is coming in. They're're like secret identities. Like, are you goddamn kidding me? And they're like, well, it seemed important at the time.

Yeah, yeah. So, to the space cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thing is Nova is one of my favorite characters, but not because of the Nova aspect, but because of the Rich Rider aspect, because he is, there's this wonderful series of panels in the Nova annihilation wave series where he's talking to another Nova. It's far flung in the future because at one point he becomes the only

Nova that exists. So he's got the world computer of Xandar in his helmet and he's hyper powered and he keeps like, I need to stop and train up more novas and they're like you don't have time and so there's this wonderful tension about it and he's older now and he's talking to a younger Nova and the younger Nova he's talking to is like I was never anything special like I don't know why you know you think I'm any good and he's like because you're exactly like I was like the reason that I was chosen was because I was nothing special. People who are special have ego.

Best know-vas are always the most average. And I love that. And the mittens of sheer mediocrity on Richard Ryder's part that I've often overlooked the space cop part. Well, I mean, it's the, it's the Captain America, you know, it's right. I mean, he was, he was a guy who cared. Like at the end of. Well, I mean, it's the it's the it's the Captain America ethos, right? I mean, he was he was a guy

who cared like at the end of the day, that was the defining quality for him is he was a guy who was not particularly exceptional in any area. In fact, the ways in which he becomes exceptional are developed over time. And he just he gave a damn that was it. And they're largely offshoots of his experience because he cares. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely right So speedball at this point is is all obnoxious

Nozani like that's how he's doing and he's the most irritating of the teenager tropes He even tells Namerita to cover up a zit You know because nobody wants to see that on TV and And this is him responding to her saying, okay, so what's the tactical approach that we're taking here? And he says, well, the first thing you gotta do, is to cover up, he's like, yeah. The only time he cracks wise is for the camera.

And even then, the camera man's like, hey, I didn't get it. Can you say that again as you kick the guy again? And we'll clean it up and post. Yeah. So it has a real cops vibe to it, to be perfectly honest, but it's turned up to ridiculous. And so while speedy, microbe and night thrasher

taking out two of the villains, Nitro escapes down the road and then we read a chases after him, smashes them and do a school bus and kind of a cool, cool little scene there. Near school while it's still in session, which means kids are like, Hey, what's that over there? And Nitro explodes. And that's his power, is he explodes. But he explodes bigger than he's ever exploded before. And it takes out the entire

block and then some and the whole school and some of the neighborhood around it. This includes speedball, night thrasher, and microbe, as well as whoever the hell the other villains were. And the new warriors are presumed dead. Most of them are dead off screen. Yeah. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the villains were just hanging out. Yes. That's the other thing. They weren't in the active commission of a crime. Yes, that's the other thing. They weren't in the active commission of a crime. Correct.

Right. Yeah. That's, it's problematic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, and it's that whole well, you know, the, there was a guy during Japanese internment who was in charge of, no, I use a senator from Michigan,

I think, and he said the fact that they haven't done anything is proof that they're planning. Yeah, because the Japanese are in screw to will and you can't tell and you know, the absence of evidence is the evidence. Yeah, that's how they get you. Yeah. And so like, oh, this is sadly on point. Yeah. So most of them die off screen, which totally sucks because Nightthracher was a cool and deep character for a while. Micro by, I didn't know. Nammarita dies with the explosion.

So she's on screen, as it were. And at this point, Speedball's dead, like in the reader's eyes. Spoiler, he doesn't die. Otherwise, it'd be a much shorter episode. I don't think that pressure comes back. His brother comes back. OK. He's got a younger brother.

It's a half brother. His name starts with a D, but it's not Dwayne. Okay. And then there's some other stuff that happens where, because nobody ever stays dead fully, but like, he's basically like the Madeline prior version of Nightthresh. Oh no.

Less sex on a grave, but yeah, like it's amazing. It's a weird match. Why do we even have that metric for the clones? Like why would you sinister? Why is this here? Trust me, you'll need it invariably. And as a fanboy of that group specifically, it really sucks that they got done that dirty. Like they got used like Drew Barrymore in screen, you know? Like just enough that you're like, Hey, that's, oh, she's dead, you know?

And the next, the next scene is the Avengers and the X-Men are both on the scene. And what I love there too is the mutants are being watched over by, uh, giant sentinels that are manned by humans. And like, you know, Wolverine's like, are you serious? We're down here trying to help. He's like, I'm just doing my job, Wolverine. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, that's, that's all kinds of problems. Um, um, but Captain America and to a larger extent Ironman are by the second panel are already blaming the New Warriors specifically Speedball. And Cap said, all these children Tony, all dead for a stupid reality TV show, which there's absolutely meat on that bone. And Ironman says, quote, they should have called us Cap, Speedball knew the New Warriors were out of their league. The whole country saw the tape where they said they were only chasing ratings Yeah, so there you have it bill foster predicts that this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for superheroes and a Conversation with Miss Marvel. He would then become the straw that was broken. Yep. Yeah, very large stock

and Shehulk is on TV with Larry King talking about the logistics Yep, yeah, a very large stock and Shehulk is on TV with Larry King talking about the logistics more than the ethics which very very lawyerly to go from the TV series of Banting versus co-opting superheroes So she's not getting into the ethics of it. That's not her job. Yeah, and I'm okay with those people existing But these are the panels that were specifically saying which she also takes up arms on the per-reg side, right?

Like and just flit in her time between that and spoiler alert she ends up representing Robbie Baldwin. Yeah, yeah, like like You know, I've been seeing a lot of discourse about how Bruce has dissociative identity disorder and, you know, so in like the Nushi Hulk series, which just aired like last week as we record this, you know, and like, well, you know, he has a different struggle than her and that kind of thing. He's like, yeah, she's also a lawyer and I've known some lawyers and they have a lot of different personalities. Yep, right. And different head spaces, they have to be in goodness gracious.

Oh, yeah. And there is a... She sticks, you know, I will say they stay pretty faithful to this arc for her about she's talking about, usually she's talking about what can be done, what is actually possible. And the compromises that can be made to do that. I'm not a compromising fellow myself. You're a union thug. I'm a union thug. what is actually possible. And the compromises that can be made to do that. I'm not a compromising fellow myself. You're a union thug, I don't think.

I'm a union thug. Yeah, exactly. So the compromise is, I'll see you on the picket line. Cause I start with, I tend to start with, like I don't negotiate. I just tend to start with, here's what I'm able to do and willing to do. Let's do that.

You know, or what do you need and we'll talk, you know, but it's not like, okay, I'll let that slide. It's like, no, that's not okay to me. So that's my personality anyway, you know, reading and doing. I wonder if Daredevil would have taken the same pact. It had he, because that's not, that's not Murdoch. No, it's not. That's a war. It's a war. It's a's not that's a war. It's day ran. Yeah. So yeah, I've always wondered about that. And he but he plays Matt Murdock because like when he goes into zone 42, he gives a silver dollar. That's right. He does. And calls him Judas. I'm like,

that's some Catholic shit right there. That is like I read that and loved it. I was so angry to find out. Oh, that's Danny. Okay. I mean, no, it's scams. It's good. It was a good there. That is. I read that and loved it. I was so angry to find out. Oh, that's Danny. Okay. I mean, no, it's scams. It was a good performance. It was. But it's really interesting that Danny ran played it all the way there. Yeah.

You know. So, so she says that essentially by his funding the Avengers, I'm sorry, by his funding, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I skipped ahead. So, the funeral for the kids, including Little Damian, who dies. But it's spelled the white upper class way, so it makes sense that it's in Stanford, Connecticut. So, the IEN is a white upper class way, the IEN is a white middle class and working class way.

I've never seen the IAN before. Oh, it's always been the IAN, okay. Yeah. So I was in, I think I talked about this in the John Cena and Pope Frank one. I looked up the popularity of the named Damien. Oh, geez. And when it came in and whatnot,

and in one year, there were four of us named Amy in the same classroom. There's a lot of fans of the Omen, I guess. Well, and you can't admit that you were a fan of the Omen, but it's a cool name that came from it. And that name was popular the year after Omen came out, not the year that it came out. So, but so Stark is at this funeral and the

mom of this child comes up and spits on him. And she, and, uh, and he takes the moment to call out that this is the new warriors, not him. He says, man, I appreciate that you're upset, but the new warriors recklessness had nothing to do with me, which is some Tony Stark level shit. And honestly, this absolutely feeds into the MCU's version of Tony Stark. Yeah. And his his giant push to the psychovia chords. Yeah. Like I thought, you know, a lot of people like, oh, they shouldn't have named it civil war because it's nothing like some war. I'm like, no, there were some serious themes that they addressed in it that came from it. And one of them is Tony Stark's need to offload any sense of responsibility

of what he did because he's so traumatized by it. He needs a man who is in perpetual self-defliction. You know, like who? Yeah. Yeah. So, she says that by his funding of the Avengers because that's known at that point. He's encouraged the recklessness in teenagers and so and then she lays out the registration argument. And then there's this bald guy with a handlebar mustache and a nub of a goatee. What were you gonna say? Oh, no, that was a really weird time for man's facial hair. But this this bald guy on TV, I, it feels like he's supposed to be a, a, a herado, Rodriguez kind of cut out, but he's, Rivera, sorry. Yeah. But he looks like Richard Ramirez, like on some levels, like it's, it's all kinds of weird. Richard Ramirez like on some levels like it's it's all kinds of weird. And yeah, he's dragging speedball again and everybody's dragging speedball and all this momentum towards speedball being

the poster child of reckless endangerment despite the fact that at this point, he's presumed dead. Quote, like speedball for example, no one likes to speak ill of the dead, but here was a boy who by all accounts couldn't even name the president of the United States. Their powers can be awesome, as awesome as nuclear weapons bill. And I presume that he's guessing on Bill O'Reilly's TV show, but he's on CNN. It's an amalgamation, right?

Yeah. And he says, quote, shouldn't they be tested before they're allowed to work in our communities? And here's, quote, shouldn't they be tested before they're allowed to work in our communities? And here's the thing, like superpowers. There is, I mean, we saw this in the first X-Men movie, where they talk about like, you know, superpowers are as powerful as atomic bombs. And we see this with, you know, them talking about psychovia chords, like if I lost a 30-ton nuke, you know, it would be a problem. There is meat on that bone.

Yeah. So what's interesting about this is something that occurs to me. One of the Tik Tokers I really like is a professor of Neo Sheminsky who writes about comics, he's a comic scholar. Yeah. And he talks about how most mutants like are, in the real terms, no more powerful than like a guy with a shotgun. Like, if you talk about like their ability to do harm, right? Most mutants are as dangerous as someone with a firearm

which we are unreasonably comfortable with in our country, but they face an extreme amount of persecution. Yes. But by comparison, super heroes, right? Not just mutants, but super heroes have are so much more dangerous. Fantastic four are every single one of them. Yeah.

Every single one of them is an absolutely walking hazard, right? But they don't face the same persecution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The same scrutiny is not applied. The, no, there was no Sentinel there to observe the Avengers or the other right tag heroes who are going to show up to help with the situation. Right.

It's only the people who are born with it. Yeah. As opposed to the people who got it accidentally. And they're, I don't know. This is where Ed would jump in about, you know, Protestants in America. And he's probably right. But like this idea of of like, you know, being born with it is a sign of God's displeasure with you on some level. Like, yeah, there seems to be an uncleanliness to being born with it. It is a, oh,

geez, and Ed would know this as a Catholic, being inherently disordered or something like that, like that's the language that the church uses. Yeah. Yeah. And we could absolutely get into the gender identity and expression aspects of it. Absolutely. And I think that there's a lot of meat on that bone. I think that that's, because I always come back to, I don't care if you're born with it or not. Are you a citizen? You deserve citizens rights. Done.

Some level of thought. Yes. Have you been here since you were a child, even though you weren't born here? You're a citizen. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah.

But they may say I'm a dreamer. I don't know. Who? Oh, God. I was a John Lennon and political reference at the same time. Time wounds all heals. Um, which is still my favorite quote to his. Um, yeah.

So, uh, speaking of John Lennon, then we show up to outside of a nightclub, somebody getting attacked, um, and, uh and Johnny Storm is beaten down by a group. And he's an out and proud. He is one of the ones who didn't have a secret identity. So, and that is the crux of it, is that secret identity folks are like, it's not okay to register us, and non-secret identity folks,

or folks who are like, that's not enough of a reason, are looking at the danger of it. And so, and you know, again, it's comic book writer during 2006. It absolutely is contriving a both sides aspect to this. And after that, the superheroes are gathered at the Baxter building and you hear the arguments for and against. There's lots of fishers between them. Iron man and Luke Cage, for instance. If you look at, I've always thought of it in terms of, it's the well off white intellectuals who are arguing in favor of, right?

And it's the street level heroes. The guys who are in the neighborhoods are like, no, this is a problem. Right. You see that, right? And Luke Cage is out are like, no, this is a problem. Like, why do you say that, right? And Luke Cage is out. He is not secret identity. And he's like, no, this is this is a gross violation of her civil rights. Hercules has no secret identity to protect. Right.

He's still like, no, this is bad. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Thor doesn't exist in this fight other than as a clone to Android. Um, actually, you know, interestingly, Dr. Strange is clearly out of it. Yeah, he stays out of it, but he's clearly canning against it. What's interesting is I remember in his conversation with the

watcher, he says, when watchers like, well, what's that, you know, what do you think is the right thing? Because it doesn't matter what I think, whatever side I pick will win. And I thought that's a profoundly mature moment for Dr. Stray. It is. It is. When I love that the watcher became Pete Seeger for that, you know, just are you a union man or are you a thug for Tony Stark? You know, so, but yeah, that's how they, they, you know, know, in the movie, they're like, you can't find Hulk, you can't find Thor, you don't know where they are.

So that you get rid of the very powerful one so we can have a fight of parity. Whereas in this one, Thor, I don't remember exactly what's going on with him. Thor is dealing with Asgardian stuff at the time. Okay. Yeah. Because it hasn at the time. Okay. Yeah. Because it hasn't landed yet. No. Right. And is that what I'm gonna say?

Is that the fear itself, Ark, where he's in Asgard? It might be. But he's doing with self-comes after this, though, right? Okay. It could be wrong, but maybe. It's around that time, I forget exactly the amount. I don't know Hulk is off doing his World War Hulk things. Yeah. Hulk has literally been removed from the board

by the Illuminati, which is all the well off people. Well, I was gonna say plus T'Challa, but he's the most well off. He is. And he's like, fuck y'all, I'm out. Like this is stupid. Like, this is not gonna go well. Yeah.

Yeah. And same with Neymor, he does the same. He's like, this is not going to go well. Yeah. Yeah. And same with Neymor. He does the same. He's like, don't you come around here? So, uh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah. So the heroes, uh, you have these divisions.

You have patriot and read Richards, which was, you know, you got patriot. It was a very young superhero, black male who is the grandson of, is it Elijah Bradley? Or Isaiah Bradley. Okay, he's Elijah Bradley. Yeah, he's Elijah. Yeah. So those biblical vowel names, at least I'm pronouncing them, because it's not French. But he and Reed Richards are arguing a bit falcon and Hank Pym argue a bit. So you got the social worker and the sociopath. That's amazing. Thank you.

You got Wolverine and the thing, which I think is interesting because I don't think they ever buried the hatchet over the fact that Wolverine scratched the shit out of his face. That happened back in the early 90s, like, clad him right down the face so thing wore a mask for a while. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. They're arguing and the thing is like, well, we've never had a problem.

He's like, yeah, not all of us are orange rocks, bud. And, you know, my people have been hunted like crazy forever. Yeah. So, and then there's some people who seem neutral to it all, right? And then Spider-Man enters a conversation while talking to Sue Storm. And Sue says, the secret identity thing isn't such a big deal. Oh my God, like a rich white woman shit. Yeah. Um, the Fantastic Four have been public since the very beginning. And it's never been a serious concern and it's like lady You're building gets blown up six times a week and it's a fortress right and everybody below you gets hit by debris like Okay, Karen

Also, I do want to I do want to point out that Johnny Storm has the The privilege of literally being almost everyone's like crush. Right. So pretty privilege. Right. Oh boy, you know, everybody either wants to be him or with him. And so the fact that things got bad enough for him to get jobbed outside of a night. Yeah.

Should be an indicator that like things are no longer as safe as you thought they were. Not that they were that safe to begin with. Right. Turns out this was all kind of on a hairline. Yeah. You know. And Spidey says, yeah, well, not until the day I come home and find my wife and pale on an octopus arm and the woman who raised me begging for my life. At this point, the only person who knows his secret at any end, pretty sure is Iron Man. That's it. Like he keeps his mask on for everybody. He in wrestling parlance keeps K-Fabe the whole time except with Iron Man. And so Spidey is bringing out like there's no way that I

would surrender my identity, which of course, you know, there's there's a giant arc there, right? So that's that's what we see. So Speedball is dead and Spider-Man is arguing like, no, this is not okay, but he's also like the guy that he is junior partner to is like, no, this is what we have to do. So the next issue in the enormous Civil War series occurs in She-Hulk issue eight in May of 2006 as well. She meets with rage and justice to form a New Warriors, but people still associate them with the New Warriors despite their retired status.

It's kind of like if I ever see Will Clark, he's forever a giant, even though he went to the Rangers. That's a sports ball reference. That is, that is. Yeah, I got nothing for soccer because you know I don't neither other than a lot of cultural obligation, but that's yeah So actually I think they're both reserve eventors at this point But they've specifically come to Jennifer Walters and reserve

Oh, yeah weekend a month three weeks a year reserve adventure. Oh yeah. Weekend a month, three weeks a year. Like that. Yeah. Well, so they had a reserve squad. Like this is, this is how you could get around. I got a bench. Yeah, they do. And it included at one point, moonlight. Um, yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Um, it doesn't include moonlight at this point, because when the Fisher actually happens,

Cap goes out of his way to find moonlight and say, I don't care what side you're on, you're not joining us. And he says this to moonlight, that having beat the shit out of the punisher already. Like, like, look, here's a guy that respects me who I beat the shit out of, and we're still letting him kind of on the team you No, no, no, no, just stay away none of us can be accused of being mentally well is we have no margin forever here

You So they've they've come to ask her to stop helping or to help stop getting the New York New Warriors doxed. So there's a website that has come out that is doxing the New Warriors one a day, which is terrible because they are the poster children of hate even if they weren't there, even if all the ones who were there are dead, and rage is especially sensitive to this because when the purple dragons came after the families of the New Warriors because that was an arc that happened after issue 25. His grandma was killed. And so the and the website even has a dead pool, not the character,

but a dead pool to see who's going to get doxed and what's going to happen to them. So there's a trial to create an injunction against this and it turns into a farce. The judge acts very 1950s about things. And you know, basically like you don't get to talk to your clients that way and like you know, they you should tell them to shut the hell up and blah, blah, blah. And justice is the only one who's actually justice is Marvel boy, but grown up. Yeah. And because he served some time for killing his father

who was abusive to him. Okay, it's, yeah. Wow, all right. Yeah, his arc was also sad, but like he was always kind of a serious boy. Gotcha. So, and he's got telekinetic power. So he like pulverizes his father into like 70% of his bones were dust.

Just like pink mist. Yep. So justice is the only one who's differentiating between the actual killing and the victims of it. And rage lives up to his name because so justice like the new warriors didn't do this killing. That was Nitro. And Rage is how can we keep talking about 600 people? There were 604. My friends were there.

They're part of the four and he goes, Apeshitt, the second day of the trial, Ironman takes the stand and blames the new warriors out and proud about it. He says, quote, in fact, I believe if the new warriors had operated more like the Avengers, the tragedy at Stanford, Connecticut could have been averted, which is throw all the shade and also look at my shine. I mean, this is the beginning of Tony Stark, not the beginning.

This is the confirmation of Tony Stark being a duplicitous prick. It feels very back the blue with that footnote of like as it suits our ends. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. And he thinks he's playing five-dimensional chess because if we can have one hand on the wheel, per the MCU, you know, so. Yeah.

And he's thinking of the 50 states mission that he's now coming up and all that stuff. Yeah. Well, he and Reed Richards came up with I think 99 or 106 things the night of the disaster. 42 was the extra-dimensional prison with no conventions that can touch it. I'm like, wow, y'all are villains. Yeah, well, I mean, it is Reed Richards. You know, good point. That really, that moment where Peter visits him and at that zone 42, and he's like, you know, he talks about his uncle and the, was at the house on American, the Hugh Act.

Yeah, Hugh Act. He was uncle like stood on his principles. Yeah, and then was destroyed by it and read still like, you know, it hurt my, it broke my heart, but you have to observe the law. And, and this was just good writing. And Peter says, I like, I think I would have liked your uncle, but you loved him, right? And, and read just sitting there, which is one of those moments where like, Oh, that's a twinge of read feeling like a human. Yeah. And

then immediately shoves it to the side. Right. Well, and you see it pop up again in a fantastic four specific issue of the Civil War, the same exact conversation. And what you find out is that Tony Stark is planted a bug and he's listening. And this is building his suspicion of Spider-Man. So because of course, like it's it's how can you think that guys the guy on the right side of things? Really rich. It's also backless from self-the- with autism and said he was going to cure it. So, you know, wow. I didn't realize he Jenny McCarthy. Uh-huh. Uh, yeah. Yeah. No, he, uh, self diagnosed with his resources and then said, I'm going to cure autism. It's like, all right, my guy. Let's pump the eugenic brakes for a hot second. Wow. Like that's like you you hear the crack of the bat.

Another sports ball reference. You hear the crack of the bat and you're like, well, that's going to be a home run. And then you see that it's like killed a hot dog vendor. You're like, oh, oh, not only a football. Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah. Well, and I mean, Reed Richards started meeting with an extra-dimensional council of Reed Richards' and then decided he was the only one who was right and said about murdering them all, didn't he? Yeah. Or something along those lines. Yeah. And now they have

the maker in the 616 canon, right? Who was the MCV version of Reed Richards? Who wasn't on a bashed villain. and it's like oh We're just being emotionally honest now. That's what this yeah. Oh, this this is refreshing So the next Spider-Man issue number 532 Ironman asks him to unmask in the wake of Stanford and About a third of the comic is Peter agonizing over what to do. And finally, he comes around to unmasking partly due to his relationship with Tony Stark. He says, quote, you've been good to MJ and to Aunt May. You've stood by us. You've been like, like a father to me. I made a promise that I

was stand by you no matter what. I keep my promises, Tony. Do what you have to do. I'll back you up all the way. I don't know when Peter Parker decided that, like, an emotional necessity equaled ethical offloading. Anytime somebody's like, I made a oath no matter what. And it's like, no, there's not no matter what. Like, I don't love anybody unconditionally. Maybe I love my children unconditionally. We'll find out if one of them kills people and I'm not like, no, no, no, that's like 16 known victims.

I hope I never have to find that out, but I don't love unconditionally. There are plenty of things people can do that's like, oh, you're no longer a part of my life. Yeah, sure. But some might suggest that having conditions and boundaries are a healthy part of one's life. Yes.

But also, I read that as like, Peter has, it's self preservation, right? Sure. It is one of the most basest. And I don't say that as a big incident, he's thinking about how to take care of Mary Jane and Aunt May. And look, it's hard to imagine being in a more secure place than Tony's facilities.

That's true. And I don't think he's thinking of the menace involved in that yet. That comes later. But I also think that there is a layer also of how to put. He, Peter Parker is really smart. of how to put. Peter Parker is really smart, but he's also, there have been scenes that I have read

where he just kinda is shrugging. He's like, no, no, I get this stuff, but y'all are on this other level when it comes to, and it's always when it comes to ethical stuff. And there is a simplicity to him but y'all are on this other level when it comes to ethical stuff. And there is a simplicity to him when it comes to that. And so he is prone to that kind of offloading of like, I just swing around and beat up the bad guys like, and so there is something about that.

Now after that, the next issue of the story kicks off my favorite of the whole series, which is called Frontline. And kicks off my favorite of the whole series which is called frontline And it's a reporter on the streets series and it follows Ben Yurick and his protégé Sally Floyd who is a drunk And at the end of each one of these episodes there's an epilogue that pulls episodes issues An epilogue that pulls the history of the country into what's going on.

Because as Ed always says, anvils need to be dropped. So the very end of the first one is a story about Japanese internment and going along with it because that's what a good American would do. And it's absolutely Peter Parker there. And what and then that issue it also reminds me of something that you don't often see in these comics with Marvel and that is brutality. Specifically, I'm thinking of the scene between it's a is it Thunder Clap and the guy he's fighting. Oh, what's his name? Nightwing? No, no, no, Oh, how, is the, it's, but you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, with the gas explosion. Yeah, right, ThunderClapp,

it sounds like a shock wave through this other hero that he's fighting, ThunderClapp is pro-registeration to the other guy, it's not, knocks him into that gas tanker. The, yeah, tanker truck. And the guy just emulates, right? And you see the body. You see the the way in which his body is just charred and traumatized and like you see the expression on the first

response faces as they're horrified at not being able to put out the fire fast enough that kind of stuff. Yeah. And then the breakdown of Thundercraft thinking when he says I didn't need to do it. That's not what I was trying to do. I said the other and he goes from being cocksure to just, you know, torn apart emotionally. And that's something that I don't think you get that a little bit from time to time, but that combined with the physical damage to this other hero's body is I thought really, that's really poignant. Yeah, normally the only time you see a body like that is when it's wolverine. And you know that in a few panels, he'll be back.

Yeah. So, you know, the rest of the story is fascinating too. It's a lot about the fallout with Spider-Man on masking, as well as Tony Stark admitting that he's Iron Man. Spider-Man sneaks into Sally Floyd's apartment and the night beforehand, before Ironman and masks and tries to tell her what's going on. Then she flirts with him and it gets awkward. But then you get to Stockton and then it flashes to a different scene. You're in Stockton, upstate New York. There's a sheriff's deputy and an overall

wearing man named Alby and they're running off into the woods so that Albee can show the deputy something important Speedball has crashed down. He's unconscious and he's floating And the nitro explosion was largely a conclusive force which speedball's power Absorbed and then it kind of overloaded and went haywire and he just flew from Stanford, Connecticut to upstate New York. And he's hundreds of miles from the explosion site and he's floating off the ground. So there's something going screwy and haywire with his power. And from him emanates this huge explosion that then lets him drop and it kills those

two guys as well. So if you're pinning everything on speedball, I think we're up to like 609 or something. Yeah. At this point, all of speedball's powers are gone. Robbie Baldwin is all that's left and he's in terrible shape. He's bald, he's bruised and he's comatose.

Who? Yeah. And while he's comatose, we see the last incidents of his conscious life through his eyes. And he's clearly in distress over it because you get the flashing here and there between his expression, which is comatose, but sweatier. And he awakens to an NSA slash shield at Atache,

named Eric Marshall, who immediately starts talking to him, which I've never, I mean, that always works in movies and him, which I've never got me that always works in movies and stuff But I've never actually seen that being a standard practice. He glibly and uncaringly Keeps talking to a man who is just in a coma and he tells him I hope you like the number four And he tells him there's four things you need to know number one. You're the only survivor Which means all of your friends are dead. Number two, this explosion killed 612 people, including 60 children. Number three, your kinetic ability bounced you up to state to New York, making you powerless in the process. And number four, you're under arrest. Way to bury the lead. Yeah. And, uh, but I mean, for him, it's that triumphant thing of now we have power. And speedball, like,

because he's coma, coma mouthed. Um, and then in the second issue of Civil War, the New Warriors ratings chasing is a part of the opening crawl on the first page. And then it discusses the two sides as equal reactions to what society is demanding. And in this issue, you see the young Avengers all getting snatched up by shield post registration deadline. And you see the secret Avengers playing the rescue. And there's hints of area 42 in the episode and Spidey unmasks.

Then in the second issue of front line, and front line is where we get a lot of the Robbie Baldwin stuff. So I'm basically going to be bouncing back between the plot, the spidey stuff, and the speedball stuff here. Robbie Baldwin is in custody. He's in an undisclosed location within the continuous United States. And his blonde hair is starting to grow back, but it's very, very cropped, and it's closely shorn.

And his bruises have all healed. His posture is always slouched, partly because he's chained to the floor and sitting in a chair. And I'm pretty sure he's wearing either all, like, like, kind of a gross blue or an orange at this point. None of what made speedball or Robbie Baldwin who he was is visible here.

So he doesn't have these acrobatic poses. He doesn't have the gold and the blue and the brilliant blonde hair and the smiles. And even if there was no dialogue, there'd be no guarantee, or if there was no dialogue, there'd be no guarantee that we'd know who we're seeing here. So that's also a thing. And so just as Peter Parker has unmasked, Speedball has been stripped of everything that identified Speedball and Robbie Baldwin is all that's left and we can't even recognize him. Yeah, this is a show of a man.

At least initially, right? Yeah. Yeah. So he's also trying to lawyer up. He says, quote, I want to see my lawyer. I said, I want to see my lawyer. You can't hold me here. It's been more than three days.

You have no right. Are you even listening to me, dude? As an American citizen, I have a right to an attorney. Either charge me with a primer, let me go. And at that point, yeah, I'm always surprised when characters say that in stories because my thought is, of course, we're charged with the crime. They can do that with that in the evidence and then just hold you for a while. But, you know, like, who do you think you're talking to? Oh, you haven't, but you haven't dealt with the cops before. That's what this is. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's you've dealt with TV cops. Yeah. Like you've dealt with plot

cops. Like Eric Marshall then sits down with him and tells him that since you've been unconscious, Congress passed and today the president signed the Superhuman Registration Act. And it means that anyone who's not registered must register. And Marshall gives him the soft pitch that, hey, if you register, they'll give him a quote, a one-time chance to escape punishment for the crimes committed by yourself and your former teammates in Stanford. Just real interesting that it's yourself and your former teammates like and the dead. Yeah. And then, you know, what I love about comics is you get those really small type words sometimes and Robbie, and it kind of shows their emotional state.

Robbie says, in really small words, but I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. And that's, I mean, you and I have talked about this off air as well. Like, you know, he continues to say, I didn't do anything wrong and you talk about his culpability. Yeah. like, you know, he continues to say, I didn't do anything wrong and you talk about his culpability. Yeah, like, I think about it from the perspective of if he is going to, if he is leading a raid on again, criminals, but that were not in the actual act of committing a crime, right? He should know what their powers are and he knows what Nitro could do.

Now, Nitro had exploded to a point that had not been seen up until then. That was entirely like new and novel, right? No one saw that that kind of explosion, right? But all the same, they know they are in close proximity to a civilian area with a villain who can detonate. Yes. Now his detonations have usually been school bus sized. You know. So what you're saying is roughly the same, roughly the same mentality as a Raytheon drone.

Right. Or to target say a civilian population. I'm just throwing something out there. Yeah, like I mean, you know, how many people at a wedding would really die from such a thing? Yeah. Yeah.

I was at a wedding in the South Side of Chicago, some of these ago, and there was, it was a Catholic wedding, and there was a drone, somehow another they managed to convince the priest to let there be like a camera drone, right, to take photos, right? Because if there's anything that the church is known for, it's embracing the new. And I posted it on Facebook and a friend of mine from India said, you know, in other parts of the world, when you hear the phrase, I've drawn out a wedding, very different connotation.

Yeah. It's. Wow. Yeah. That's. So Marshall, let's him know that his identity has already been sent on to the Washington press core, which is a weaponizing of the press. And because all his friends are dead, he's the only one alive that can get any blame. Which I don't think that's how the justice system works. I mean, it is. It is.

Rules as written. No, it doesn't. Rules as intended. Obviously it does. Robbie is incredulous at this and I think honestly this this absolutely speaks to my My cultural lens as a white guy I'm fully with Robbie on this He doesn't have the culpability. He does have the right to a lawyer He like all these things. I think are true He wasn't at the spot where the dude detonated. He attacked the dude in a house whereas detonation would have been contained were the dude detonated. He attacked the dude in a house, whereas detonation would have been contained.

Like the mental gymnastics that I'm now realizing that I clearly have done. You know, it's one of those things that like intellectually sure, I'm inclined to agree with Robbie. Yeah, you know what? He was acting what he thought was obviously motivated by a degree of success. But if we're being honest, no one goes into those situations, wanting to fail, whether or not there's a TV camera there, right? So there's that there. But the other thing is like, he, it's still a matter of, oh God, what my philosophy professor put it, moral luck. If you, I get a kick sometimes or I used to,

like driving through a big pile of leaves on the side of the road when people pile up because it's neat to see the leaves scatter. Sure. If there's a kid in there, you're still responsible for what happens. Yes. And what's more, if you have even the slightest idea that there's a neighborhood where they're kids who play, right, You accept a certain amount of risk. And so this is where I get kind of frustrated with Robbie

in his decision at first to not take the bargain that she hulk, that Jennifer Walters proposed to him, right? Where she's like, look, we can get you off. You sign up, you go pro-registeration, you will serve like three years of service or something along those lines. And yeah, and you know, it's a good deal. And you'll be, that's when you're likely to get, you'll be federally sanctioned to do the thing that you got in trouble doing. Yeah, you'll be a consultant for a while, right? So you won't even

be in danger necessarily. Well, Benchew. Yeah. And you know, on the one hand, he says, no, I'm not going to take it. You know, I'm going to stand by my, you know, on the one hand, he says, no, I'm not going to take it. You know, I'm going to stand by my right. You know, I didn't do anything wrong. And he said, the other end, it's like, yeah, okay, that's cool. Let's be realistic, my guy, because as I, as I like to say, whiteness is a ladder. You can climb up it. You can also go down it.

And my dude, you are near the bottom wrong. Like in terms of what your Social-cultural privilege will protect you from you're almost Hispanic. You're almost yeah like You I say that knowing who I'm talking to. Yeah, no, it's absolutely. You're not Not the bottom, but you're getting there and yeah, you you are at the very easy like chargeable arrestable you are at the very easy, like, chargeable, arrestable, incarcerated level. Yes. Yeah.

And it's interesting, because I've faced instances where I didn't do anything wrong. And I'm going to fight this. And because I've got wise people in my union, they're like, OK, if you fight this, you're going to be fighting this for a long time, and it's going to be your end-keeping in oxygen. The other thing you could do is,

does it really hurt you that people are saying these things? Does it really hurt you that you got this kind of an evaluation? You know, as long as it's above this threshold, it doesn't hurt your employment. Call it good. And it's like, but she should be, you know, I had an administrator who just completely blew it on my my evaluation.

And I had a monster proof of it because I'd answered all her questions to to the satisfaction of anyone. And even my my principles like, yeah, this is this is ridiculous. I'm like, well, then I want another evaluation of blah, blah, blah. And my union was like, dude, why? Like, you know, you're not going to be in any kind of trouble. Just shut up. And I was like, it was a pill to swallow, but, you know, it was the more practically correct thing to do. Yeah, yeah.

And you're always playing the long game of the next fight and how this is going to set up for the next fight and things like that. And it's, you know, tries we might, we do still have to contend with reality, unfortunately. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that's where Jennifer Walters does a really good job with him. But I also think in this early stages, um, he actually, this is the, the final shadow of his wisecracking self until because I think there is a shift that happens after this. His wisecracks become

based out of nastiness and a need to hurt others or a need to defend himself versus just as you am. Yeah. And so he says, so, you know, he's, he's incredulous this whole time, right? And he says, this is a joke, right? Any minute now, you're going to say that this is a joke. Like, that's his response to Marshall letting him know you're the only one left alive to blame. And Marshall says, if you refuse to sign, you will be incarcerated at the pleasure of the United States government. And Baldwin immediately says, I'm not signing anything because I didn't do anything wrong. What happened in Stanford could have happened anywhere. I know my rights. And I want a damn lawyer. And Marshall walks away and says, quote, you're an unregistered, you're an unregistered competent, Mr. Baldwin, I define your rights.

Come back, I'm sorry, yeah, I need to zoom in a little. So the guards are then walking in back to his cell. And he's starting to show signs of being able to wise crack more confidently He says guys seriously. I'm like begging you here. Don't make me big because it won't be pretty plus You don't want to see me cry. It'll haunt your dreams. I'm a good cryer And he's going on and on and fast talking and all this until one of the guards just punches the shit out of him in the gut And then kicks him while he's down and smashes his head into a wall And it turns out that guard had a family member who died in Stanford and he aims to make Baldwin pay. And Baldwin's response to getting beaten and then throwing into

or and dragged off to his cell is it wasn't our fault. It was Nitro. I'm sorry for what happened to those people in the guard interrupts. And not like you will be boy. And he throws the bloody Baldwin to the ground. Boy. Yeah.

Yeah. And the interesting thing is, I believe Marshall is black, and I believe the guard that throws him and says that is also black, although the other guard is white. So I may have mixed up who said what? But there's always that authority figure. Yes. Referring you to in a community gender position. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is Robbie is a 16 year old. Yeah. But at the same time, like you're treating him like an adult, you're beating the shit out of a kid. So you

pick one. Like in that coming book, our reference in the last issue, the survival straight one. Yeah. And how corporations are granted personhood. There is a, there is an arc that addresses the idea of trying corporations as minors. Oh my God. Of course, yeah, of course. Oh, yeah. So the next scene, Baldwin's on a plane, beaten up quite a bit with a lawyer begging him to take the plea deal And I should mention that Robbie Baldwin has spent years not being able to get beaten up because of his power Yeah, so all this pain is really likely something he is not used to You know, they say that when you get into

Marshall arts and fighting and it's competitive and you actually get punched a lot There's a leatherification that happens. Like you get, you know, it's like, oh, I've been punched in the face. Okay, I know what to do. Yeah, I've do 12 years experience, two black belts, and yeah, you get knocked around. Yeah, you have to build up your skin. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, and see, I always did joint locking stuff. So like, I got really good at getting bent, but like, I got my nose broken. I'm like, damn, well, actually, that's a bad example because I've had my nose broken literally 20 times.

And after the 12th time or so, I was like, oh, got broke. And I was just resetting it and whatnot. But people are like, oh my god, your nose is broken. I'm like, yeah, it's no big deal. Click, let's go. But it was also, oh my God, your nose is broken. I'm like, yeah, it's no big deal. You know, click, you know, let's go, you know, but it was also, you're not supposed to be breaking my nose. We're joint locking here. So, but so yeah, he's not used to this, having been speedball most of most of this time. And the lawyer and Baldwin have this wonderful exchange. The lawyer says, no one in America cares about you standing up for your principles. Your actions caused the death of 60 children. Baldwin says, I'm not the one

who exploded. I was the one trying to stop him. And you failed. This is the best offer you're going to get. If you simply agree to register, then I'll be admitting guilt. I'm not guilty. Then the lawyer fires back. Then I can do nothing for you. As an unregistered combatant, you'll be taken to a maximum security penitentiary somewhere in the lower fires back. Then I can do nothing for you. As an unregistered combatant, you'll be taken to a maximum security penitentiary somewhere in the lower 48 states, possibly Alabama or Texas, which wow. Mm.

Just wanna break out there and be like, mm, what, what, I wonder what's interesting about those two places. Good. It's certainly not the quote unquote Southern hospitality. No, not so much. And then back to the quote, they're going to want to set an example. They put your identity out on the news wires now.

You're going to have a lot of very nasty people who know you're coming. Baldwin, I can take care of myself. He has also spent the last several years being a superhero. So he probably knows how to fight pretty well. Lawyer without your kinetic energy powers for how long I wonder, you'll be held at the discretion of shield until they've completely or the until they've completed construction at a second facility, at which point you'll be transferred. And that's only if you survive the transfer period.

So this whole time he's being processed somewhat brutally for his time in the new penitentiary. And as soon as he crosses this red line into the Genpop, he's beaten up, stomped on the ground, et cetera. He's a baby killer. Yep. Exactly. Oh, they call him that over and over to me, especially does. Who's kind of like the, I'm going to say the kingpin, the very poor man's kingpin, like the little Debbie of kingpins. And the hydrox of kingpins, the RC cola of Kingpins. Yeah. And the Hydrox of Kingpins, the RC Cola of Kingpins.

Hey, now listen, that is sacred. All right. RC Cola and Moon Pie passes you, Chris, that some churches, okay? That is. Yeah, I can believe it. So something about this sort of reminds me of something really horrifying and depressing.

So allow me, really. Oh, right really, you know who you brought on here. But when he says, you know, I did nothing wrong and I'm standing by this that and the other, it reminds me of, I don't know if you recall, in the aftermath of the Parkland Florida shooting, there was, they interviewed the family that had been hosting the perpetrator. Because he was not staying with family, he was staying with some other people who have known him for a long time and that's what I knew that he had firearms, they kept his firearms in the house. And when asked about it later, after the event happened, a reporter asked them, you know, if you had to do it

over again, would you still have given him access to his firearms? And they said, yes, because that was his right. He had a right to those weapons. And so, yeah. And that was that's right up there with Sandy Hook, which has also been something to my mind as far as all this stuff goes, right? Yeah of Is there any way out like of this cycle of violence and madness because that That the confidence is looking to a camera while the bodies are still warm and say You know that was his right we would have given his guns anyway, even knowing what we know now. Right.

That's a, that's a, from that person's perspective, they are standing by their convictions and what they think is right. And they themselves do not see themselves at all being co-whol or responsible for the deaths that day, even though while their hand was not on the trigger, they were absolutely a relevant factor in what could have stopped it. Yes. Right? I often wonder when I see stuff like that, when I hear stuff like that, of how much of that is psychological self-preservation?

How much of that is talking about grandpa being a good German patriot at 19 in 1923. You know, because there is very rare that people are capable of admitting that they were wrong about a thing, much less something so awful. I wonder if there's a scaling issue there in, you know, in terms of that. Because, yeah, because when people discuss the price of freedom, they don't ever talk about it in the number of children's bodies. Yeah, the toddler count, right. But it should be discussed in terms of that, because that's part of the price of freedom, apparently. I mean, literally they were faced with that,

they were faced with that question and they said, well, freedom. Yeah. It's on the idea of self-preservation reminds me of, maybe it's like, you know, Hocki and that series finale of match, right? Where he has to create a fabricated world or narrative of what happened in order to keep himself sane

because he did, he took an action that led a woman to smother her child. Yes. And as soon as you said, Hawkeye, I thought you were going to the series. So I was really confused for a second. You don't remember when Clinton Barton told Kate Bishop to smother someone. To the smother? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, there's, yeah. I mean, yeah, you're absolutely right. And that broke his brain. Yeah. Oh, there's. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're absolutely right. And that broke his brain. Yeah. And and he had to go. But, you know, that's Alan Alda. So he actually was able to write a character that was, you know, self reflective enough. And that was, you know, a different time, I guess. Now, it's interesting that the parallel that's happening here, got now you shook my brain with the the parkland thing because we actually had a active bomb threat and a live shooter threat at the same time at my school within about a week of that. Oh, wow. And so we evacuated because bomb threat trump shooter's shooter threat. Now neither of these things were proven to be credible

after the fact, but at the time we had to treat it as though it was credible because of the protocols and whatnot. And there was no evacuation plan for our site because why would there be, right? And so we invaded the Elk's Lodge down the street from us. And they were not too happy. And I was not too happy with them.

Yeah. And I'm me. So I went in hard. And then it is weird that you keep baseball bat with nails in it in your classroom. I mean, I'm just gonna put that out there. It's not a baseball bat. Okay, it's a beating wand.

It's totally different. It's a hall pass. Yes. No, the hall pass is a disc break made of metal in case a kid needs to defend themselves zina style in the halls. And it's engraved and says, Mr. Harmonies' big obnoxious hall pass. But like I went off. And so eventually we had to move the evacuation site from the Elkslodge because they're just a fraternal organization that's there for public safety. And so people were and our superintendent came down and I do not have much respect for that man. But he was asking, he's like, well, where can we be?

I said, we're on a street that has eight churches on it. He's like, well, then like what church? I'm like, you know, what if they turn us down? I said, claim sanctuary. They had a still at you in. That's a sad state of affairs. Yes. You have children in danger.

Yes. And you're not willing to let them chill there for a little while. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. In a largely empty building, by the way. Like, like, it's not like there's business hours going on right now, you know, right? But yeah, that was that was a rough time like it traumatized a lot of us to a level that none of us dealt with and then Yeah, it the years afterwards were lots of just stacking of

Bullshit on top of it, So we never really dealt with it. So, but back to more cherry things. When Peter Parker unmasked, he is unsure of a lot of things. He absolutely is. But he immediately gets flirted with by Drunken Sally Floyd, which I'm down from. He has the support and the love of Aunt May and Mary Jane and he has reassurance from Tony Stark. And he chose to unmask Robbie Baldwin was unmasked against his will. His name was given to the press Peter Parker gave his name to the press. Robbie Baldwin, his name was given to the press. He has always right stripped away. He gets the shit kicked out of him repeatedly. And he's told over and over again that his innocence is immaterial to anything. And he gets called a baby killer. So I'm going to end with this, this thing that happened the week that that issue of front line came

out. The court case of Hamden versus Rumsfeld decided that the detainees at Guantanamo Bay detention center were due the barest minimum in the Geneva Convention's Article 3, which the United States was claiming to uphold but had been proven not to want to uphold and wasn't really upholding. Rumsfeld, then the Secretary of Defense, tried the argument that since there was no war, those deemed terrorists were entitled to no such rights as listed. And again, we're talking about basic shit that outlawed the next five things. Outlawed violence to life and person in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment

and torture. It outlawed the taking of hostages. It outlawed this is a genitivic invention. Yes. Outlawed outrages upon dignity in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment. And the it outlawed the passing of sentences and carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees, which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. And it outlawed the wounded and sick from being collected in, or and it said that the wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. We just really had not given a shit about that document the last 20 years. No. No. Longer. But no. To an impressive degree. Yeah. Almost like it's a, so there was a guy,

Pliny the Younger. He loved Emperor Trajan. And he wrote to, and Emperor Trajan's considered the greatest emperor of all of Rome's history. Maybe Septimus Severus, it depends. But Trajan was kind of like the code maker for it. Sure. And he, he, Pliny had found that there's this dangerous ass cult, uh, offshoot from the Jews who are not praying to all the gods in Rome. And they've been going at it for like 20 years. And he's like, this is a civil crime. We need to persecute these people. And so he did. So he writes the Trajan this, this long letter, he always write long reports to your boss. And then they sure fire back a single paragraph.

And he says, look, I found these people and they, and he lists all the shit that they did. He's like, they, they would do the weirdest goddamn things. And I tested them. I would ask them, are you a Christian? Are you sure? Are you sure? And if they, if they said no, then I would ask them another question, but you know, that three times asking was kind of a thing to me. And then he's like, and then I had, okay,

prove that you're not a Christian. Burn this incense, drink this wine, pray to the statue of the emperor. And then, you know, pray to these other gods. And then, curse Christ, and then do this. And he's got this this list and I looked at the list one day and I was like wait a minute This is the 10 commandments turned into a checklist And it was I mean the order that he had it in was command one command two command three command You know And and then he talked about how weird these people work because they would meet it dawn and sing songs back and forth to each other. They're doing a bunch of weirdos. Yeah. And he's like, and then they would, they would come back together and drink wine and eat bread like that's something.

And then he'd be like, and then they'd swear not to bang each other's wives or to like deny deposit when asked for and not still. Yeah. And the thing is in Roman culture, like the only time you actually take an oath is when you enter into a conspiracy to do horrible shit. So to him, it is weird. Yeah. You know, it would be like the outset of of our episodes. I would promise Ed that I'm not going to flirt with his wife. Yeah. Like, what are you doing that? You know, and to the Romans, you're supposed to bang each other's wives. Like, it's just open secrets. And so, but he used the Ten Commandments as a checklist. And it strikes me as we used the Geneva Convention as a checklist.

Just trying to get bingo. Exactly. So, in starting in July, the Hamden versus Rumsfeld said, oh no, you have to start treating Gitmo prisoners with these rights. So this is May and they said, starting in July, you know, this is June and they, you know, that the court case came down, starting in July, you have to start, you know, doing right by them. In February, the UN demanded that the detention center in Guantanamo Bay that had been open since January 11th, 2002 be closed. It was this extra judicial

Didning exist on US soil and area 42 of sorts. Yes Where you have negative rights. Yeah. Oh, I like that. Especially. Yeah. Well done Interestingly Guantanamo-based detention facility opened with permanent facilities at Camp Delta in April of 2002. You want to guess the total number of detainees that it was meant to hold? It's like double digits, wasn't it? 612. Oh, whoa, whoa. I was like, are you serious? That says a lot about intended actions. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

But also, how many people died at Stanford? Oh, oh. Oh, that's sad. That, ooh. Yeah. That's heartbreaking. Uh-huh. So, by June of 2006, again, when the issue came out, again, when this issue of Robbie Baldwin

getting the shick at them, there were three suicides at Guantanamo Bay, which were a part of a suicide pact. The rear admiral commander of the facility, a man named Harry Harris called it quote, an act of asymmetric warfare against us. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry what? These three men killing themselves is an act of asymmetric warfare against us. No, no one commits a homicide, but us. Right. What? Yeah. Yeah. The amount of cartoonish blame the only living person from the event that we see happening to speedball is not that cartoonish at that time. It's right in line with the zeitgeist of the summer of 2006.

The Pentagon had authorized torturous treatment, including what came out in a New York Times article from June of 2005. Quote, on a couple of occasions, I entered the interview rooms to find detainees chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor with no chair, food, or water. Most times they had urinated or defecated on themselves and had been left there for 18 to 24 hours or more. Now at the same time, Dick Cheney was saying to Wolf Blitzer, like within a day of this

report coming out, he said, quote, there isn't any other nation in the world that would treat people who were determined to kill Americans the way that we're treating these people. They're living in the tropics. They're well fed. They've got everything they could possibly want. The tropics, it's Cuba, but the tropics. Yeah. Yeah. It's like and I think that's where I'm gonna end it So we're gonna pick it up for the next episode Where we get back into Spider-Man and his choices and the real you start to get into the roller coaster of things here But yeah, they're they're being tortured

And speedball is absolutely being thrown to Tumi and his wolves. And it's a torture and a removal of dignity. And we haven't even gotten to zone 42 yet. Yeah. Which I mean, so every time I read it, I'm like, okay, okay, clearly it's overblown like the panic is like, no, there were literal current antecedents that were happening or current sentence I guess. It's interesting about that. And I only know this because I taught a craft on it and because I read Civil War as an e-comic on Marvel I Remedded which means you don't get the commercials, you don't get the advertisements right. They do in the actual original copy right. In the original run in issue seven the last last issue, right, where Cap throws the fight. Right, they start advertising for the US military.

Wow. See, I only read it in trade paperbacks and then e-comics, so I didn't get it either. Wow. Yeah. And we'll, we can talk a little bit about the, the post-Sov civil war aftermath and the characterization of the opposing sides as they continue their fights. And yes, the implications for the social

discourse runnings, protests in the Iraq war. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so what did you glean? Things are bad. Yeah. Things things are are are always bad. And I am uncomfortable with degree to which comics as a art form with high immediacy adapts to reality. No, it's I think, I think, you know, it's always interesting seeing how depictions of the criminal justice system work within narrative universes and it does seem rather hyperbolic to say that well they have the negative zone where people don't have rights and it's outside of US authority and jurisdiction. It's like well that does seem kind of science fictiony but also Guantanamo. Yeah and that it's it's also easy, I think, to find characters like Tony Stark charming because he does take in MJ. He does take in May and he's helping Peter Parker

and that kind of stuff. And you know, he, he even from the outset in like the lead up to civil war, he's coming up from the angle of protesting the registration. He initially yes, protest registration. Yeah. And there's a lot of credibility and leeway we may give a character like that. But ultimately he was still playing a game with people's lives and one where he was sure he was going to come out on top. And so yeah, that it really does remind me of like, not the Tony Stark and George Bush are necessarily parallels, but how much good will can carry you?

They're both dried runks. That's fair. That's entirely fair. They're both corporatized. They're, I mean, with very distinct eyebrows. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, they're both more similar than I would like to admit, but I never thought to compare

them. And a lot of, they rely a lot on charm. Yes, I do. And different ways to get people to go along with them. So to manipulate people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As I tell my students, if you want a master class in emoting, look at George Bush and his eyebrows.

The man says a lot. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, so where can people find or actually did you want to recommend any books for folks to read before? Yeah, I'm going to recommend a couple of things. Number one, I am reading. Oh, I have that that

Punisher paper that I came on and talked about. Yeah, one more when we discuss, you know, the recentiment and abject masculinity and the use of the black male body as a form of as the method for healing white trauma and all that kind of stuff at the expense of black masking one day. That paper's probably been published. Congratulations. Thank you. It only took two years. Good day. But yeah, it is, I forget the name of it, but if you type in Gabriel Cruz Punisher and Howard Journal of Communication is where it's published. If anyone has access to it, you can find it there. God, the name is Gays Meathamil. But also, I'm gonna recommend something else

that came to mind with us, we were talking about Guantanamo. That is, there's a documentary that I watched in grad school that I think you can find on YouTube for free. I wanna say, because that's how I watched it, at least at the time, but it's called the Road to Guantanamo for anyone who's interested. So just a brief description of, it's a British 2006 Dr. Drama Film written and directed by Michael Wooder-Mottom and Matt

Whitecross about the incarceration of three British citizens, the Tipton Three, who were captured in 2001 in Afghanistan and detained by the United States there and for more than two years at the Detainment Camp in Guantanamo Bay Naval Base Cuba. It was well done, it was horrifying, and it has, you know, it's just, it was good and insightful, and the kind of thing that keeps you up at night. So yeah, anyway,

and I think you can access it, like I said, on YouTube for free. Okay, so. Cool, I'm gonna recommend that actually people go watch, now that you've read Civil War frontline, that whole series one through 11, now go watch the Civil War movie. Because the themes that are brought up in it are,

it's interesting because they don't live in a world where there is a secret identity at all, but they still found ways to draw the same issues into it or the same themes into it, essentially security versus liberty. And it's interesting to see who makes what argument. And from what place they're making the argument, my favorite part, and I wish that they had given so much more space to it was the argument between Rody and Sam. Because those two men have a vastly different experience than the guys that they are standing for. And I would have loved to have seen that played out much more as a discussion because

it only gets a couple of lines and then it's quickly moved on because vision has an equation But and a bad one. Yeah, it really is. Oh my god talk about begging the question like if I ever teach you off I'm using that scene for begging question. Yeah vision our ideology is his power strength Invites his catastrophe. It's like no, no, you're still a baby. Yeah, yeah, uh, uh, invite to his health or fee. His health or fee? It's like, no, no. You, you're still a baby. Stopped. Yeah. Yeah.

That's the other thing. It's like, anybody else want to hear from the two-year-old? Yeah. So. But anyway, I invite people to look at that. Uh, where can people find they find you if they want to find you? Yeah. Um, if they care to hear more of my foolishness, I'm on TikTok Twitter and Instagram at G.A. Cruz PhD. I also have a podcast called Office R.S. Rebacter C. Come Check us out. We have had

Damian and Ed on and it's a great time. And yeah, so we talk about pop culture and that kind of stuff. And it's nice. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. You can also find me at Luna's on the first Friday of every month from here through the end of the year Sacramento bring proof of vaccination and $10 and you get to see capital punishment the longest running international pun show in the world So I've How many people are in that category? For international pun shows I mean, there's the UK pun off that, okay.

Yeah. And then there's one called capital punishment, but it's out of Canberra, and they haven't been as around as long as we have. You know, I meant that to kind of take a dig at you and then realize, no, there's probably a world here. Oh, yeah. I do. I've been on several of these to the point where now there's internationally known, oh, that's a a world here. I'm just gonna do. I do. I've been on several of these to the point

where now there's internationally known, oh, that's a Damien joke. So it's where you take four minutes to get to a punchline that is woefully like you should have seen it coming and your mad that you didn't. So. But yeah, come see those. It had Luna's in Sacramento, $10 and proof of Vax. So, first Friday of every month. So, well, Gabriel, thank you so much for being on and we'll of course have you on next week and possibly the week after as we continue our trounce through speed balls, traumatic life. But until then, I'm Damien Harmony for Geek History of Time.

And I'm Gabriel Cruz. And until next time, keep rolling 20s.