A Geek History of Time - Episode 199 - Masculinity in 1980s Fantasy Part I

Episode Date: February 26, 2023

I'm not here to poke holes and suspended this belief. Anyway, they see some weird shit. They decide to make a baby. Now, Muckin' Merchant. Who gives a fuck? Oh, Muckin' which is a trickle, you know, baby. You know what I mean? Well, you know, uh, you really like it here. Uh, it's kind of nice.

And uh, it's not as cold as Muckin' Home of the Sun as well. So, yeah, sure. I think we're gonna settle. If I'm a peasant boy who grabs sword out of a stone. Yeah, I'm able to open people up You well, yeah anytime I hit them with it, right? Yeah, so my cleave landing will make me a cavalier If syscloth it was empty headed Plubian trash Really good I thought it was empty headed, plebeum trash. It's not really good a groove. Because cannibalism and murder pull back just a little bit, build walls to keep out the rat heads.

And it's a little bit of a round of tools. A thorough intent doesn't exist. Some people stand up quite a bit. Some people stay seeing quite a bit. But it just... This is a geek history of time. Where we connect and herdery to the real world. My name is Ed Blalock, I'm a world history and English teacher here in Northern California.

And as part of my professional responsibilities on my site, I don't know what the acronym is, they use for it on yours, but we have non-instructional duty service. Oh, we call that cash-junk-duty. Okay, yeah, that was in my old site, it was that junk-duty too, but it that. That junk duty. Okay. Yeah. That was in my old side. It was that junk duty too, but it's nids at ours, which as a 40 K player, every time that comes up, nids means tyrannids, which are a horde of tightness, aliens, semi insect, you know, critters that devour everything before them. And I can't help but kind of chuckle darkly at that. But in any event, one of the nids that I have signed up for this year was there's several

dances over the course of the year. And we had one just a couple of nights ago, and I signed up to Shaperone it. And at my old site, because of the circumstances of my commute, I was depending on train transportation. And so if I stayed late enough to over to to Shaperone after school dance, it it would mean having to drive a very long way into work and then drive a very long way late at night at home. So I just never did it. I always opted for like track meets or you know soccer games, so there's another stuff. And I have now Shepard-Round 2 dances so far this year. And it's interesting to see the arc of how things have changed. One of the things that has been constant is that when you put middle school boys and girls

into a social setting instead of an academic one, the differences in relative maturity level becomes darkly illuminated. The girls are all 13, like to borrow a phrase from a friend of mine. The girls are all 13 and they're effectively going to be 13 for another couple of years. going to be 13 for another couple of years. The boys are split, like the sixth graders, it's like 70, 30, 70% of them are still in the fourth grade. And 30% of them have entered puberty and are starting to behave that way. And then by the time you hit the eighth grade, it's like 2080,

the other way. Like, you know, 20% of them are still not quite ready for prime time, and 80% of them are how you're doing, you know, in this remarkably clueless and shy, like weird, like it's clear they really desperately want to going to go into the gymnasium because COVID. I'm like, no, thank you. So I was outside in the outdoor area where kids go inside and dance and then they come out and socialize. And I didn't go back inside and whatever. And so yeah, it's a trip. Middle school is a weird parallel dimension.

And yeah, so that was my weird experience for the week was watching that all happening but inside by side for a couple of hours the other night. How about you? Let's see, I'm Damien Harmony. I'm a high school US history and Latin teacher up here in Northern California. I actually had something happen this week that hasn't happened in, I don't remember how long, at least two administrations at my site. Okay. I was evaluated. Like I've not been evaluated in years. How? Okay. Stop. Sure. How did you pull that off? Well,

the a while back. I was evaluated by an administrator who I don't know what she was doing thinking or trying to prove and I can't figure out what it is. But we have a one to four scale one being the best for being the worst. Okay. And so it's like golf. You want the lowest score possible. And there's six different criteria. And so one of the criteria was, has expertise in the subject in which he's teaching. And another one is along the lines of, you know, can effectively plan or whatnot. Okay.

So this administrator so many years ago, God, I don't quite remember when. I want to say it was like 2012. It was a long time ago. So maybe maybe maybe earlier maybe later, but she came in evaluated me for my Latin class. And then she came in a second time and evaluated me for my US history class at that time, because that's how long ago it was I was teaching US history again. I think holy crap. Okay. Yeah. And she sat in amongst the kids.

It was great, you know, and all that. And then she asked the questions that, you know, administrators ask like, you know, how do you know that Mr. Hermann is evaluating it right now? How do you know he's doing blah, blah, blah. You know, does he assign this kind of stuff as homework normally? What does he do to check it, etc, etc. Okay. And then she didn't really ask me any questions. So she's just kind of going based on what random kid said, which okay, but there are things in our contract to say you can't do that. Yeah, weird flex, but okay. Yeah weird approach, but not okay and so

He you know, and then we have our meeting and she's given me a four as far as subject matter expertise And I looked at her and it's one of many fours that she gave me I got fours and three's across the board I said was there a riot in the class that I was unaware of? No. Like then how are you granting me a three or a four? So well, a lot of students were, were didn't know whether or not you would collect their warm up that day. I said, right.

That's true. That way more of them will do it. And she's like, no, they need to know when you're going to collect it. I said, you don't remember Skinner where it's inconsistent rewarding increases the behavior. You don't remember that. That's like the basics of teaching school. Yeah. And she said, well, you know, I still think that they should know. I said, you might think that, but it has proven otherwise. And it's good teaching to do it that way. And she said, well, and also you're calling on people, like, how were you recording their responses? I said, you didn't see me tallying points when

they would answer things well. And she's like, well, no, I said, and I held up the cards to her. And there's tally marks underneath, you know, for participation points. I'm like, that part, and you didn't ask me that before you evaluated me. Like, before you start giving me scores. Okay. And what's this about me not having any expertise? And she's as well, you know, I don't really, I said, I'm one of two people on this campus with a master's degree in history. Tell me who knows more than I do about the subject that I am teaching at this campus right now. I said, I'm the only person in this district

who knows this language that I'm teaching. You are not qualified to evaluate me on this language that I'm teaching because you don't know if I was terrible or good at it because you don't speak the language. That's how expert I am at this language that I am teaching, that I've been hired to teach by your boss and Well, you know, I said okay, well, I'm not signing this. I'm gonna grieve it

because it's completely wrong and you've done a terrible job and She's like, oh, okay, and so I came back with a with a rep and laid out Here's what I want you to do instead of me grieving it. This is your last chance. And she's like, no, I'm going to stick to what I've said here. I said, okay. So then I took it to the Union Hall and they were stunned.

They're like, we've never seen anybody present us with a grievance that's already completely filled out. Like normally we have to like ask people for things. I said, well, I just wanted to make sure we did it right. Like I went to contract and I, you know, pulling hearts and stuff. And so we grieved it. And the administrator in charge of her, well, and then we grieved it. And then I told her, I went back to her one last time.

I said, it has been filed. I'm more than happy to rescind it if you would just undo this evaluation. You just call it. And no, I'm gonna stick to it. I said, okay, very good. So then my boss called me in, like a week and a half later, he says, we're just gonna go ahead and undo that evaluation.

I said, probably a good idea. He said, so we're gonna move everything from fours and threes over to twos. I said, that's not good enough for me. You know, either undo the whole thing or redo it and do it right. And he said, and then he said, you know, he turned to my rap and he's like, you might want to talk to him about what's worth his energy or whatnot. And I was like, fair.

So I did and they all agreed. And like Damien, just you don't have to fight it all the way. You know, like you've already won. I was like, yeah, but what about the next person? They're like, there's not going to be a next person. There's no way this is going to happen again. Okay, fine. So the next year, that same administrator, it's evaluation time. And he comes to me and he's like, how'd you like a five year? So in my district, if you are good enough boy, you can get a five year. And it's based somewhat on the philosophy of the administrator and, uh, and whatnot. But essentially the idea is if you give me a five year, because you know, I'm doing fine, then you can go and focus on people who actually need to help.

Oh, okay. Right. Cause valuations are supposed to help you. Yes. They really are. Um, and so that. Because valuations are supposed to help you. Yes. Yes. And so that's the five years. So he gave me a five year. And then he moved on to greener pastures. That VP was not a VP after that.

He moved on to greener pastures. And then about five years later, a new administrator was, you know, he's like, okay, well, it's time to evaluate you. And he's like, okay, well, it's time to evaluate you. I was like, okay. I just got done with the five year. So go ahead and evaluate me. And then I said, or you could just give me another five year.

So, okay, all right. So I went into this evaluation and I said, you know, I'm happy to be evaluated. I think that's great. I love a chance to show off. And I mean, I genuinely do approach it from that perspective. I said, I love a chance to show off. And so I sat down with my VP and I said, okay, so in this evaluation meeting, is this the first evaluation meeting you, or is this the first year you've done evaluations? Yes. Okay. Cool. Well, I think it's fair that I train you on how to do an evaluation. So we'll schedule my meeting the soonest. And then I'll use that to teach you how to do evaluations. So I came in and sat down with that as my approach. And I said, okay, go ahead. Tell me, well, I know what I'm doing. It was. And, you know, I want him to be within contract. And so, uh, so I did.

I came in, I sat down and, and, and told him, you know, here's, here's this, here's that. So, you know, go ahead and tell me what you need to tell me. He does. I said, okay. And, and now I'll present my stuff that, that you need to be aware of. Um, and so I did. Now I'll present my stuff that you need to be aware of. And so I did. And I said, OK, well, now let's go over this list of ways in which I'll be evaluated. And I just start going through them. And I was like, there's this, there's this.

And then I said, expertise. I said, I defy anyone on this campus to show more expertise than I do when I teach my class. And he just starts laughing, which is exactly the, the response I wanted. There are people who are amazing teachers on my campus. They absolutely are. And there are people who are very knowledgeable about history. They absolutely are.

I do not mean to diminish them by any kind of comparison with me to be honest, but I know my shit really well too. Yeah. So he comes in and evaluates me. And he sits down and we have a policy at our school because of a number of issues of violence, people coming on to campus, et cetera. And so the policy is we we're not gonna increase security,

we're not gonna actually do anything to help the buildings be more secure or provide mental health services so that these problems get headed off, but we are going to ask you to lock your doors. So that's the thing we do. So that means that when kids come in tardy and they come in tardy quite often because we don't really have a tardy policy worth a damn. Yeah.

When they come in tardy, I am in the middle of lecturing and I just, I've learned to just keep flowing and go open the door. Hey, I'm glad you're here and close the door and they keep going and dead and dead and dead, right? He became the door man during my evaluation because he sat closest to the door. And it was, and there was one moment where I was talking about busing in the 1970s and in Boston and how, you know, that turned into actual riots. And I said, yeah, it was about 1971 and I turned to my VP who's probably your age. I think probably younger than me even.

He certainly is healthier than me, so I can't tell his name. All right. And so I said, well, as, you know, I'm gonna say Jones, Mr. Jones, you remember, you were about 13 at that time, right? And he's just image conscious enough to be bothered by that, but he's also like been pointed out in front of everybody by a guy who just winked at him. And so he has to. That was good. It was fun. Power move. Oh my god.

I will certainly claim subversive. There's there's some big dick energy going on right there. Yeah, like a holy crap, man. I love evaluating once at once I have permanent status. I aspire to that level of fuckery. It just you treat it like it's a chance to show off and you treat it as a chance to show off not just in front of your boss but in front of your kids too. That's what a lot of people get. You are the master of your domain. You know what you're doing. That's not ever going to be a problem. And your students will see that

you being the master of your domain means also over administrators who walk into the room. You work a room, you know, and so I, oh, I love it. I absolutely love. I do like showing off to adults, and I do like showing off to the kids. And I like the idea of the camaraderie that brings in through my mischief. So anyway, yeah, very cool long story way too long. I got evaluated. I'm sure it went well. I'll find out on Monday of this next week what he thought because we have our our post-eval meeting. So yeah, it should be fun. Yeah. So I'm I'm I'm Hotel hotel departure from what we were just talking about If you could name like right off the top of the top of your head if I if I said to you name for me a

1980s fantasy film What what is the first title it comes to mind? The money pit. There's no way that anybody could buy a house that big on his. No. It is okay. All right, good.

That's, you know what? Yeah. Yeah. We're a point for you right there. That's, that's not wrong. Yeah. No, Wall Street. The guy went to jail. I mean,

come on. And is that ever going to fucking happen? Yeah. No. Okay. So in reality, a fantasy film from the 80s. Yeah. First thing comes to mind is Beastmaster, to be honest. Okay. Yeah. All right. Because to me, Conan doesn't, I would say Conan, but Conan doesn't feel fantasy to me. There's monsters and shit in it. And I know that you've talked about high fantasy, low fantasy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a decidedly lower fantasy. And to me, it just feels very, very, it, there's no like, fantasticalness to it.

It's all really grim. Okay. Okay. So, so because it's because it's grim dark fantasy, it doesn't, it doesn't register in the same way as Beastmaster does. To me. Yeah. Okay. No, that's, that's, hey, that's meaningful. I, you know, um, so what's, what's interesting is,'m gonna be, I'm gonna talk about Beastmaster here, but Beastmaster and remarkably Conan the Barbarian are not the films that started me down

this particular rabbit hole. Okay. The film that started me down this rabbit hole was crawl. Oh, good one. Now here's the thing. I showed that to my kids recently. I know you did. And the reason I know you did is because crawl showed up in my Facebook feed twice in the same week. Whoa. Why is it the same week, which, which like if I had a nickel, for every time, crawl showed up in my Facebook feed, I mean, I only have two nickels, but

it would be weird that they showed up that close together. Right. The paraphrase of a meme. But you know, it's kind of notable for a 40 year old movie, and it's even more notable for a B grade fantasy flick like a chorus. So the first time, I, you know what? Okay. Anyway, so the first time it showed up,

this is important because the first time it showed up, a high school friend of mine, answered a Facebook question about bad movies deserving a remake. And he said, crawl. And I had to step in and tell him, he's fucking wrong. Crow is awesome.

You, you know, like no, it's an overlooked classic. You just have to be in the right frame of mind for it. Wow. The second time. I'm sorry. You back it up a second. Yeah. How does it feel to be as wrong as the person in 2001 in the summer

who is like the biggest story in 2001 is going to be shark attacks. How does it feel to be that wrong? I you know what here's no dude it's, the second time you showed a truly deep cut image from the movie as part of a Facebook post, because you were showing the movie to your kids. You said, what is this from? Was the question that you asked? And my answer was, and I stand by this, and underappreciated classic is what it's from.

Oh, it was from the web scene, huh? Yeah. Yeah, it was the it was the crystalline spider. Yes, with the witch in the center of the web and all that. Yeah. And next in my notes, because we've already kind of done this, but next to my notes, I have in brackets argument over the merits of Krell is a work of cinema. Yeah. the my notes I have in brackets argument over the merits of Krell is a work of cinema. Yes, I mean, I knew we were going to go there. You know, and the thing is, there are there are massive gaping, gaping holes in the plot, like as a work of literature, it stinks on ice.

Like if you just analyze the script, yeah, no, it's a stinker. But visually, it is really remarkable. And there is some remarkable stop motion animation that goes on in it, specifically in the spider scenes, like the puppetry and everything that was done for that set of effects. Yeah. And yeah, it's, it's, there, there, it has an awful lot going for it. Sadly, the script is not one of the things that it has going for. It's very true. I mean, it does have a place in it.

It does have a place in it. But there was, it does have a place in it. And really heavy fuck can make up. Yeah. And in prosthetics, no less. Yeah. And, and a whole, a whole slew of work-a-day, a journeyman, a British science fiction actor from that era,

who you look at, you're like, wait, I've seen that guy before. Well, yes, because he's watched a British science fiction film from this time period. Yes, you've seen him, he's in fuck and everything. Like, you know, yeah. Yeah. So as much fun as it is to debate the quality of a big great fantasy movie, that's not actually what I'm here to talk to you about.

Okay. The thing is, it struck me in the middle of making my declarative statements about its genius, that Carl was only one of a glut of fantasy movies that came out in the early to mid 80s. And this is interesting because before that period and then after that period they were pretty thin on the ground. Was it because sci-fi was taking up most of the shelf space? Well, even sci-fi wasn't really taking up that much shelf space. So, star wars opened in 1977. Right. And for a couple of years after that, there was just this flood of science fiction adventures

that tried to ride the money train. Yeah. Laser blast in 1978. Yeah, laser blast in 1978. Mm-hmm. In which a teenage loner, I guess, somewhere in Arizona or Nevada, it's a desert setting. I watched that movie on public TV, on K-O-F-Y TV 20, Stockton, Sacramento, San Francisco. Yeah. It was in San Francisco, we had two channels that did syndicated stuff. Okay. You know, K.O.F.Y. was the poor man's version. Okay. Channel 44. Okay. And so it got all the B grade shit. I watched that movie and could not find the name of it. I watched it when I was like eight.

Yeah. Right. And it like I was like eight, right? And it like there's an amulet burns into his face. And he like puts on a tube. He's like a plack. Yeah, it's yeah. And I watched that movie when I was eight. And I, you know, receded to the back of my head and whatnot, it's just such a terrible movie.

It the first time I saw such a piece of shit. Well, and which is actually germane to the story, the first time that I saw its title was because I saw a list of the 50 worst movies ever made and it was number 48. Oh wow. Yeah. Damn. Yeah, so I remember watching that movie and like it was just vaguely cool enough. I mean, he did have a laser for an arm. Yeah. Um, yeah. But wow, it's so

funny that you would pick that exact one. Oh, well. Yeah. So Teenage Loner finds an alien energy weapon and gradually turns into a monster and goes on a killing spree. Yes, is the summary in one compound sentence. Yeah, that's your elevator pitch. Yeah, battle, start galactic in 1978. Okay. We've talked about this one on its own.

It was a clear attempt for reverse engineer, Star Wars Gold Knight. Buck Rogers in the 25th century in 79. You're talking TV shows here though. Well, no, I'm not because the pilot for Buck Rogers got a theatrical release before becoming a TV series. Wow. Six months later. Okay. So, and that's 79, and then the TV series premiered either late 79 or early in 1980. And in a side-yard one? Yeah, Gilles' yard.

Yeah, yeah. And in a side note, I have to say that seeing Aaron Graham and Shining Leotard made me pretty sure I was straight at the age of five. Okay. Just, you know, for informational memories, the black hole in 1979, Disney's live action division tried to jump on the cash-in train with possibly the scariest movie that slim pickens ever good voice work for. Yeah, you know, Maximilian Sh was in it and he chewed on all the scenery as the lead bad guy. Okay.

And then in 1980, battle beyond the stars. When John Boy Walton went looking for space mercenary to help protect his peaceful farming planet in a story that's a mashup of Star Wars and the Seven Samurai, which is interesting because Kurosawa was a foundational, you know, influence on Star Wars. Uh-huh. So that's really fucking meta. And then on top of that also, by the way, uh, George

Papard, uh, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, which is, at the front of the wave, we see that there's Ralph Bakshi's wizards and the Rankin Bass version of the Hobbit. Ralph Bakshi's wizards is animated, correct? Yes. Okay, yeah, they killed Fritz. Yeah, got it. You bastards, yeah.

Right. So wizards and the Rankin Bass Hobbit came out in 77. Oh wow but they're they're I don't even want to say they're leading indicators because they were kind of swallowed up in the wave of SF stuff and the trappings of science fiction And the trappings of science fiction seem to be part of the magic as far as producers and development people were concerned. And so it took a few years for them to start reaching further afield for the answer to how to make big money on escapism. Right. Okay. Now, backsheet is also known for directing an animated film of The Lord of the Rings, which his version

is a fairly book accurate adaptation of the fellowship of the ring and kind of goes into part of the two towers. Does it have a similar animation style to the rank and bass? No. Oh, it's very different. Oh, okay. He worked with a lot of rotoscope stuff. And so it's really easy to tell.

And there was, he got, he was an experimentalist. Backshe did push the limits on a lot of stuff. And so all of the heroes, the nine walkers, whether the fellowship are all classically animated figures. And I mean, it's really clear, you can tell how he was working from living models on the animation, or how his animators were working from living models on the animation.

But the ring rates and all of the orcs and all of the forces of darkness are done. They were very heavily rotoscoped. And so there's this very stark visual difference between them. difference between them. And like I get what he was going for, but but it always turned me off personally, because it was it was just it was too jarring. And many of his aesthetic choices about the way the way he portrayed characters and and pastuming and design that kind of stuff just didn't match up with the image in my head. And it was just, it never worked for me. Was that the one was, was that the one that had Anthony

Daniels in it? And John Hurt. Yes. Okay, yeah, cause John Hurt was Erigorn and Anthony Daniels was an elf. Yes. Yeah. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. You didn't think that that had the same kind of aesthetic as the Hobbit, the Bank and Rask, Lord of the Rings. No. Dramatically different. Dramatically different. Okay. I hold the Ranking Best version of the Hobbit responsible for me being interested in Japanese

animation. Oh, really? Because of the style of the illustration and the design stuff. Whereas back sheet stuff is very clearly very rooted in the Western tradition of, you know, Warner brothers and Disney and all that kind of stuff. I wonder if I'm just like, because I'm having trouble separating the two now grant you, I'm significantly younger than you are. But also, Fuck you. And, and the, the dweemerlacky rodon on God.

But also, I'm wondering if I'm mostly just seeing the colors in my memory, because the color. That could be. So yeah, I bet you that's what it is. That could be. Because Frodo seems to have roughly the same albony color hair in my memory in both. Different style. Different style. Auburny color hair in my memory in both different dials.

Different dials. Like in one of them, he's a bull cut and another one is a little bit more 70s Mollady. Yeah. But I bet you it's a lot of. Okay. So probably. Yeah. But so the so the the back she version notably was an influence on Peter Jackson when he made the 2001

live action adaptation. Uh-huh. The process for for backstreet's version of the film started in 1975. The early production involved a script written by John Borman, which backstreet shopped around in order to get it bought and then thrown out because he hated it. I mentioned this because Bourman's name is going to show up again very soon. Okay. Now this is clear evidence that there was an appetite for escapism of either Reagan or

magic sword variety, but Star Wars showed up with spaceships and magic swords that weren't magic swords and took all the wind out of fantasy sales for a couple of years with its runaway success. Okay. If you get one of them. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was science fictiony enough to not be fantasy, but it's really not science fiction. It is totally space fantasy. Right.

It's kind of the point I'm trying to make. But anyway, it sucked the wind out of the room, sucked the air out of the room for any kind of straight up fantasy attempts for a couple of years because. There's all the monies and space stuff. Yeah, all the monies and space stuff. And like, no, this worked. We're going to duplicate this is the risk averse approach

of producers. So. Yeah, you never lose your job doing poorly what someone else succeeded at. You lose your job taking risks. Yeah. Yeah. Now, there's a film I have to mention here, because if I don't, Bishop

Hockonnell is never going to forgive me. I hate to do it. It's a bell weather of things to come. It's a high fantasy story ripped straight out of somebody's D&D campaign. It's entitled Hawk the Slayer, and it came out in 1980. Oh, yeah, the sequel Lady Hawk came after that. Oh, oh, you, you fucking apostate. No, no, because then the lady Hawk is the third one of the trilogy was Hudson Hawk. I fucking hate you so much right now. Now, Lady Hawk, which I'm going to get to, is a really good movie. Okay. Hawk the Slayer stinks on ice.

It is like we just spent a couple of minutes debating about the weaknesses of the script for agreeing on the weakness of the script of Carl. Right. No, no, no, my friend, hawk the slayer. So Jack Hallens plays a fantasy version of Darth Vader. Jack Hallens. Wow.

Just proving that everybody has to pay a mortgage. Right? Yeah. So, so Bishop, when I watch this thing back in junior high school, completely cracked out of our minds on Mountain Dew and junk food at like two in the morning, honestly, bover. And this movie was so bad we discovered the concept behind mystery science theater 3000 spontaneously, about 15 minutes in.

I mean, it was just, it do not watch this film. Okay. Just no, it's, that's, it's so bad. Okay. That being said, and I'm sure they're going to be, they're going to be list because opinion is always subjective. Sure. Like this is objectively a bad film. I'm sure there are people who love it beyond reason. It would have been. Whatever reason of nostalgia. But, you know, that said, this movie was on the rising edge of a wave that rose very, very rapidly. Because in 1981, ex-caliber opens on April 10th. There's your John Bournemake connection, isn't it? Because he was producer for that one. Yep.

Yeah. Clash of the Titans opens on June 12th. Dragon Slayer opens on June 26th. And Time Bandits opens on November 6th. All in 1981. Wow. Now, two of these I'm gonna, I'm gonna synopsize kind of outside of discussion of the others. Time bandits is an adventure comedy and which a young boy named Kevin living in a miserably neglectful home. It's pulled into the high jinks of accrued dwarfs who've stolen

them up to holes in spacetime. The dwarfs are using the holes to plunder their way through time pursued by the Supreme Being and manipulated by evil, capital E, because he's a character, who wants to get hold of the map so he can overthrow the Supreme Being. Right. Both of those words capitalized. It's a Terry Gilliam movie and a comedy, my Terry Gilliam. So it's absurdist as I'll get out, right, and has some very pointed things to say about consumerism and greed, but it's simultaneously very heartfelt and has an ambiguous, but leaning toward happy ending.

It has one of my favorite lines in it. And I use this sometimes when students answer things completely off the fucking wall. Horse flesh is dead. That's not it. Okay, well, shit. No, when I'll ask a kid like, you know, what was one of the leading causes of,

you know, the Great Depression? And they say something along the lines of, you know, people liked movies Okay, and I will say and how long of you been a thief four foot one Because it makes just as much goddamn sense That's perfect. Yes, Oh my God. Okay. Favorite ones. Yeah, that's that's brilliant. And I pantomime it too. So I lean down.

And how long have you met a thief? And then I look up four foot one. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to have permanent status. Okay. Oh, I can't wait to have permanent status. Okay. So it is broadly subversive in that it's Teri-Gillium and he's satirizing everybody. Oh, yeah. And because Teri-Gillium was part of the Monty Python group, It's a very John, please gets a job. Yeah, well, one, John, please get a job. All of the Python's got a job in it at some point, but, but it's very episodic, like they go from one vignette to another to another to another.

Yeah, I mean, the very structure of it is episodic. Yeah, it's it's like an episode of Monty Python's laying circus, but they're all connected by a singular plot line. Right. And so, so it is it is in kind of this one place as as a fantasy film. And then we have Dragon Slayer, which is about an apprentice wizard named Galen. In an animal dragon, he can find, so he's the dragon's lair. Well done, but no. No. No. In a fantasy, this takes place in a fantastical analog

of sixth century Europe. And he's on a quest to rescue a kingdom from the predations of the terrible dragon. And you'll get a kick out of this if you don't remember it vermouth racks pejorative No clue the dragon's name is vermouth racks pejorative. It's it's I mean, I'm sure it's pseudo Latin Yeah, it's presented as being like no no the Romans named this Verma Thrax pejorative. It's essentially a Greek word, a Greek worm pejorative. Because Thracus comes from Thracian. Okay.

Without me looking too much, you know, okay. And then they're me, you know, Vermicelli. Yeah. So you get worms from that. Interesting. Okay. I think the pejorative obviously the lesser. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. I think the majority of obviously the lesser. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a very 70s plot line and that the king, it turns out, has been making great show if his

daughter's name being included in the sacrificial virgin lottery. But in fact, she and the daughters of his favorite nobles have been secretly spared in a ritual that's a sham of equality. secretly spared in a ritual that's a sham of equality. Furthermore, because this king is a Freight Galen who will fail and only piss the dragon off, he rests in it first. Until his daughter actually sacrifices herself, she pulled it fast, because she finds out that this has been going on and in a fit of righteousness without any concern for self-preservation, she winds up having all of the tiles in the lottery replaced with her name.

Mm. There's actually, it's kind of a remarkable scene when the grand counselor who's doing the whole thing, you know, shows everybody, this is the princess's name and he drops the tile into the big cauldron full of all the tiles and he stirs it around. Then he reaches in and pulls one out and he stares at it for a second. And then he reads the name out and the king says that's down now you didn't start enough. Try again and he stirs it again and pulls another one out and that's her name. Like, and then the princess stands up and has her. No, I had all of them removed and replaced with mine because I know that you've been lying to the people. In anyway, she dies because it's 70s,

Blotline. Right. So the king then then begs Galen to go rescue his daughter and Galen arrives to fight the dragon finds that she's already dead. Now the dragon is slain and there's a deeply cynical scene of villagers rushing to praise God for saving them when earlier in the film of priest gets vaporized by vermouth racks. When he tries to defeat it with the power of prayer, while the king rides up and dismounts off of his horse climbs up onto the very dead corpse of the dragon to drive his sword into said corpse in front of his chosen noble witnesses. So, you know, the king has delivered us. And so then Galen and Valerian the female romantic lead find happiness by riding off away from all of it They get on horses and they're like all right fuck this. We're gonna go make a life someplace else It's intensely heartfelt on the surface, but it's heavily dosed with cynicism Mm-hmm, and it's trying to flip side,

saying it. This one was 81. Yeah, 81. When was Blade Runner? Oh, shit. We did. How many episodes about it? I want to say 82, yeah.

Okay. Just interesting that in two movies in two years, you had, let's go out on the lamp as the end. So yeah. you had, let's go out on the lamp as the end. So it's it's intensely heartfelt on the surface and Galen is this very sensitive. I really want to be a wizard. I really desperately want to be a hero, but I'm you know, I lack the confidence, you know, all those tropes. And it's kind of, again, it's kind of time band is its flip side,

because time band is on the surface, really, really cynical, but at its heart, it's very earnest and very heartfelt. Right. It's also funny to know that British actor Ralph Richardson appears in both movies. Okay. In Dragon Slayer, he's Galen's mentor, Wizard, and in Time Bandits, he plays the Supreme Being.

Just interesting side note there. Yeah. So, Kevin from Time Bandits is a proto-Harry Potter. Right. And abusive family situation plucked off into a fantasy solution, you know, circumstance. Galen is a sensitive, kind of hapless hero and the whiny kid is heroic figure mold of Luke Skywalker. Okay. And the thing is, ex-caliber, sorry, with ex-alibur in clash of the Titans,

which are the other two big ones, something happens with the leads in the stories they tell that I think is indicative of a trend. So we have these two films, which are in their own ways on their own levels, both very deeply cynical, right? Right. Because Terry Gilliam is pointing and laughing at everybody in the world, and Dragon Slayer

is very profoundly anti-establishment, right? X-Calibur is straight up a retelling of the legend of King Arthur, very heavily emphasizing the grail quest. In an interesting twist on Lamort d'Arther, Gwynnevere and Lancelot only start their affair after their accused of having won. So in the original, more d'Arther you know, going to Varian Lance Lot, start getting it on and one of the Scotland, one of the Orkney Brothers catches,

I don't remember which one it is. It's not going, but it's one of his brothers and there's accusations and Lance Lot proves her, quote unquote, innocence to travel combat. And it's like a recurring thing. Well, in X caliber, there's a lot of unresolved tension between the two of them, but they don't actually do anything until Morgana Lafay, whose villainous outside figure, but which is Gawain into seeing a vision of the two of them having sex,

and then Gawain goes and spills beans, and then there's the whole thing, and then they wind up actually doing it. So it's precipitated by an outside force. Right. A common theme in most versions of the story is the inescapability of mortal failings. And Lynxlatan Gwampers of Fair is the is the or archetype of that. It's like, no, this is people are fallible. Even somebody like Lancelot, who is the the paragon of knighthood. People have failings and you you cannot escape them.

In in this adaptation, again, evil action from outside is required for that to happen. Like it all it all could have been required for that to happen. Like it all, it all could have been an ideal, it could have all been in utopia except for Morgan Lafay working from outside to undo it all. And also in this in this retelling Arthur takes on the role of the Fisher King. He winds up being the one who gets healed by personal with the Grail just in time to take up arms against Morgana Lafay and their son, Mordred. Right. Loyola Lert, that's the whole thing from, you know, forever.

And he and Lancelot reconcile on the battlefield, fighting against Mortarid's army, which is not a scene in the original grail cycle. In the original grail cycle, Lancelot does not show up to help Arthur in that moment. And in the original cycle, Gwynnevere and Lancel, end their days in monasteries, trying to undo the shame of what they were responsible for.

Sure. But here, Lancelot shows up and exerts badassery, and the two of them have their manful reconciliation before the inevitable death of Arthur at the hands of Mortaron. So, clash of the Titans relates a modified version of Legend of Perseus in which the hero literally rescues the Princess Andromeda and marries her in the end. And kills Calla. It's not Cala ban. Calaboss. Calaboss. Yeah. It hangs very heavily on the original Greek themes of hubris. Don't get cocky or the gods are going to punish your pride.

Right. And features Harry Hamlin being very shirtless and athletic. Yes. Both of these stories harken back to traditional legends. Both of these stories focus on a very traditional ideal of masculine heroism. Arthur and Perseus are both clearly the good guy in their respective tales. Right? Triumphs over wrong in the end, and there's a very heavy emphasis on fighting physical heroism without any questioning of the moral imperatives involved in either story. Right. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. The good guy wins and the good guy wins

primarily by being a big buff masculine fighter type. So moving on to 1982, we see the sword and the sorcerer opening on April 23rd. Oh, and the barbarian on May 14th. Beastmaster on August 20th, a tour of the fighting eagle. And on September 14th, that was what was released in Italy in the United States. It waited a year. It came out in March of 1983, but I'm putting it here because it was at Geist and Timing. And then, which we just finished talking about, the dark crystal open on December 17th, 82. Now, sword and a sorcerer, Lee Horsley, of all the people to cast in the, as the lead of a sword and sorcery film,

Lee Horsley plays a displaced, rinse-turned mercenary, who uses a magical three-bladed sword that he can like point and magically launch. It launches, yeah. Yeah, two of the three blades can be fired, like rockets. Inspiring, you know, any number of individuals and Dungeons Dragons campaigns to try to come up with stats for it, I know, like, because my friends and I did it too. Sure. Now, he is seeking revenge on the man who killed his father

and the sorcerer who helped him do it. He returns to the kingdom of his birth. And Lee Horsley, again, it may be just me, but I don't get the calculus of this, but Lee Horsley spends a good portion of the film shirtless. He uses physical prowess and that magic sort of his to defeat the baddies. And he agrees to help the princess figure in the film in exchange for her sleeping with him. Wow.

The depiction of this character doesn't quite go all the way to anti-hero, but he's no Arthur or Perseus. Maybe he's a scheezy kind of Han Solo, but he's still portrayed as ultimately heroic, which wouldn't fly today. And yeah, so Conan and the Barbarian, I guess less less said about that from here the better Conan the barbarian we've spent a bunch of time talking about this But within the context of of what I'm talking about here. What's important is his hyper masculine figure Ritnaful Phil John Millius's idea of an ubermensch right whatever Nietzsche had to say actually like be damned

Again, he's shirtless through much of the film. He succeeds through physical might against a sorceress enemy. This time notable for his hypnotic power over others. Okay. Now, Beastmaster. Where Conan played fast and loose with Robert E. Howard's most famous character, the Beastmaster actually took a 1959 Andre Norton novel and turned an SF story into a fantasy one. Whitewash is the main character because Andre Norton originally wrote him as being coded as Native American.

Oh, okay. Introduces a completely different plot. Like, just takes the central conceit and then builds a completely different plot around it. So Mark Singer plays a per se as figure, a prince prophesied to be the death of a powerful bad guy and then the prince winds up being raised ignorant of his royal heritage and he has the ability to communicate with animals. Right. The cynicism of Conan and the sword and the sorcerer is missing here. Dar, the main character, is pretty much a boy scout.

But he's a little bit, like, again, you know, trying to parlay things into sex, but then he kind of backs off pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah. He tries, but he doesn't, he's not quite such a bad guy. She rebukes him and he doesn't chase it down further. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. But he's still a shirtless muscular warrior, dude. A bit against a sorcerer's bad guy and the cult of witches who supported Rip torn as the bad guy. Yeah, which is notable Yeah, that's the ridiculous anyway, so that's the ridiculous part. Okay, also John Amos with a top-not and no shirt Yes, so the ridiculous. Ridiculous. Yeah, very.

So now, uh, a tour of the fighting eagle of the 82 releases, this is hands down the shittiest. Like, anybody who's heard of this one now is most likely familiar with it because of its run on mystery science, three or three thousand in 2018 or on riff tracks. It's a mess. It's just, it's an absolute shit show. A tour is another child of prophecy.

It's true. I've had a real run. Let's start of the decade. Who grows up in the arena of his heritage, Natch? Wines up fighting to rescue his beloved from the clutches of an evil cult. There is a note of cynicism because he winds up finding out that his warrior mentor has trained him to defeat the bad guy so that mentor can take the big bads place. But a tour himself is still a good guy, capital G, capital

G. He's shirtless a lot again. He's portrayed by a very muscular actor, Miles O'Keefe, who's most famous for playing Tarsanne in 81. And in this story, he narrowly avoids being seduced by a witch and gets fought over by a tribe of Amazon's. Wow. Now, when this came out in the US in 1983, I saw it in the theater. You're the one. Yeah. Well, no. No, no, there were playing us in the theater that day. And I didn't go alone because I was only eight. My dad, the whole family went to see this one. My dad had been the one like, no, no, we got to go this one in about that tone of voice, in about that tone of voice. I was too young to understand so bad. It's good. So I didn't understand why my dad got such a kick out of it. We left the theater with him laughing and me completely confused. Like, what? Like at eight. I was going, what did we just watch? Like oh my god. Wow. Alright, so 83. Okay. Roll. Mm-hmm. In July, fire and ice in August and death stalker in September. Okay. Growl.

Literally, the story of a prince rescuing a princess from a terrible monster. The monster is named the Beast. The magic weapon the prince goes on a quest to find in order to defeat the monster, winds up not being used to kill the monster at all. But rather as a fancy circus saw, also it's called a glaive when it isn't a fucking glaive. It's a shock-arm-sized shuriken that he controls through telekinesis. Yeah. Like, that was my daughter's first objection too.

Your daughter will go far in life. Yes. I have issues with this thing, but that's beside the point, because the movie is a dark fairy tale. There are some semi-grimmed dark elements, the prints and lists criminals to help him. And they kind of turn out to be mostly okay guys, and we promises they're freedom to. Right. The Cyclops nose, he's doomed. The whole color palette is subdued and cold. But nonetheless, a Dudley-Dewrite Prince succeeds in the end, rescuing his princess.

The beast is defeated and good trams over evil. You're not gonna mention the the sorcerer? No, not in this. You're not gonna saturate long inability, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. No, yeah, yeah. Yeahur, long inability, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. No, yeah, yeah. Yeah, true. Oh, I love that. Yeah.

So the evil in question also is stated to be an alien dictator who rules multiple worlds through fear. Yes. Was that just me or does that sound like the USSR is viewed through a Reaganite lens? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you've got the seductiveness

of false adoom doing something similar with you know socialism Yeah, you know, you've got yeah the men are many of the bad guys are cutouts for the the communist menace on some level or another Oh, yeah So that's crawl Mm-hmm fire and ice, Ralph Bakshi, one more time. This time working with Frank Frazzetta. I don't know that name. He is a very well-known fantasy artist who did the covers of a whole bunch of paperback

editions of Conan the Barbarian stories. Okay. of Conan the Barbarian stories. Oh, okay, yeah. One of his most famous paintings is the Death Dealer, which is a big muscular figure on top of a horse with a big shield of gigantic battle ax, helmet that hides their face. Anyway, a friend of mine, one of his long time, you know, things on his wish list

was he wanted a copy of of that painting and his wife Found him a print of it and I just like huge big deal for his birthday. Yeah But so Backshin and for is that a work together on on this one and An evil sorceress and her son are pushing the world into an ice age And an evil sorceress and her son are pushing the world into an ice age. Their forces hitnap a princess who the sorceress plans to have her son marry. Okay. In an interesting departure from the mold so far, the princess here manages to be more proactive and managing her own escape.

Mm-hmm. But it still falls to a couple of muscle-bound heroes without shirts to fully save the day, right? So it's still hypermasculinized male figures You know pulling out the win in the end Deathstalker I've saved this one for last for several reasons So Lee Horsley's character in the sword and the sorcerer is pretty skeasy by today's standards, but holy shit Deathstalker is worse.

To quote the Boston Globe, a cauldron brimming with stale film making, stone-faced acting and primitive editing. Aside from the nasty rapes, I lost count after six. Jeez. And the endless violence death stalker drips with derivative dullness. The movie is so bad that the director can't even give you a credible decapitation. So what, what, what will kill your faith in humanity is they went on to make like at least two more death stalker film after this. But the titular hero that's literal that is his name death stalker. And generally every male figure in the film is a rapist.

There's a harem of enslaved women used as a major plot point. The only marginally self-actualized female character wears a cloak and a bikini as her whole costume and gets murdered after having sex with the protagonist. Naturally. The main character is a hypermasculine, muscled shirt, a swordsman, and in an interesting departure from the ultimately pro-social structure endings of the other entries on this list, Deathstalker, at the end of this film, to destroy the magic items he's been sent to retrieve,

and then leaves an entire kingdom rulerless for no reason other than, I'm not interested in ruling. So it's basically Conan, but even more misogynistic, and with nihilism as the central attempt at philosophy, rather than the Neatiodism. It's a 14 year old Edge Lord's idea of badass. Right. I see this as being like you actually get to finish a an arc for your D&D first edition advanced team. Yeah. And this is what you do instead of like, you know,

create a keep. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bad, ugly movie. It sounds like it. And as the most extreme example of its type, I think it's the most emblematic of the issue driving the sudden boom in sword and sorcery movies.

Now, real fast, sword and sorcery as a subgenre of fantasy is generally defined as a milieu in which magic is shifty, usually evil. The hero of the story is a warrior or a rogue type who wins victory through fourth-right physical prowess. Strength is usually key, but cleverness and cat-like reflexes also figure in some stories. Okay. The gray mouse is a key example of the latter. Howard is the father of this genre, Conan stories, or the trope codifiers in most cases. Okay. So the question is, why was Sword and Sorcery a thing in the early 80s? TLDR, the 70s were a terrible time for American exceptionalism and the post-war concept of masculinity. Okay. Okay.

So before night in between, sorry, between 1945 and 1970, the US economy grew Between 1945 and 1970, the US economy grew dramatically, leaps and bounds. Right. The US held 40% of the world's wealth by the start of the 70s. As the largest partner in NATO, the US held immense military might. Okay. It had been American industrial power that had provided material for the defeat of the axis in World War II. And then it had been American wealth that had largely rebuilt Europe as part of the martial plan.

Right. The dominant cultural paradigm was one of American ascendants tempered by the fear of an unclear R.U.S.S.R. Yeah. The Korean War wasn't an untrammeled victory, but Americans could look at it as a win against communist aggression. Right. At the very least, you pushed them back. Yeah. American cars were sold around the world. American grain fed millions worldwide. American steel rebuilt the infrastructure of Europe and much of the rest of the world.

Within the US, the standard of living improved dramatically. Now, needs to be said, the lion's share of gains went to white households. Post-war economic policy was explicitly racist in who it helped move up the economic ladder. Yes. But there were real gains in wages and buying power across the board. Yes, there were. Okay. Popular images from the time from film, television, and advertising

depict a consistent image of an idealized nuclear family. You've talked about the fantastic response to this. Yeah. In which a father figure in a suit and fedora provides for and watches over an apron smiling wife and one or more cherubic children. Right. Suburbia exploded thanks to government policies designed to build and populate massive tracks full of single family homes. If you were a cis-head white male American, you could easily see yourself as sitting at

the top of the heap globally. Starting in the late 60s, that started to change. Right. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM. Stonewall had put LGBTQ issues on the front pages of newspapers across the country. In 1976, WNET in New York hosted a special outreach program that included frank discussion of, quote, legal, social, and religious services for gay men and lesbians in the tri-state area. It's an early example of public media discussing homosexuality and involving gay and lesbian people in that discussion. That's 76. By 1980, 120 of the U.S.'s biggest

companies had adopted nondiscrimination clauses in their employment contracts to recognize gay and lesbian employees and 40 cities had similarly enacted anti-discrimination ordinances. Okay? I mean, yeah, I mean, we talked about this when I did the soap episodes with our guest, Amanda Lanham, the, the, the, the educated. She, she and I talked about Anita Bryant and the huge backlash against putting in legislation that says, stop picking on gay people. And Anita Bryant and how she ascended at this time. Yeah. Yeah. So now in the 1970s, we wind up seeing fashions that are rooted in the mod look

that lead to men wearing lots of bright colors and following softer lines in the clothes they're wearing. Yeah, there's a little there's a push in music toward Androgyny and in modeling toward Androgyny. Yes. Yes. Mick Jagger, Freddie Mercury, Elton John and David Bowie. We're leading edge figures and pushing against masculine paradigms in their performances

and public persona. Yep. Robert Plant wore a lot of women's blouses as part of his ensemble in order to show off his chest. Right. Um, disco. The whole genre and movement of disco was rooted in gay trans non-white culture. Right. And within disco culture there was an explosion of experimentation with Androgyny and gender identity. And as a backlash, there was an explosion in Chicago. Yes. As we've discussed before, disco freaked Cisette White people the fuck out. It was

a really big way. Yes. So, and now we get to talk about second wave femenism. Well, before we do, I just want to go back to the Anita Bryant stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because at that time, you had like this explosion of awareness and frankly, a willingness toward acceptance of gay men, specifically gay men. Yeah. And then Anita Bryant comes up. So it's not a man who's masculinly defending masculinity. It's a woman who's narrowly defining masculinity and, quote, defending it.

And I think that's interesting that it's a woman doing the fighting for the men and for masculinity. And same thing with Phyllis Schlafly and her bullshit. And in fact, the men who are standing up, I'm gonna put in finger quotes again, for masculinity, are your televanjolists. And so, which are essentially the priestly class that you see in half of these sword and sorcery movies,

Demogogic religiously. essentially the priestly class that you see in half of these ordnance or three movies. Demagogics religiously. And so you have had even yeah, but yeah, and you have. So you have these women who are middle aged women, and you have these religious snake oil salesmen as the ones who are standing up for masculinity in any way that gains traction. I'm not saying there weren't others, but those are the two groups where they really, really struck back against queer America and set things back by quite a bit.

So it's interesting to see that like in the 80s, you start to get into like hypermasculine shit. Yeah. But in the 70s, it was older white women that were planting the flag of what is good and proper masculinity and what it's what isn't. I'm not saying they were doing good work or even the Lord's work, but I would say that they were the ones that were out and proud about being out and proud of masculinity. Yeah, well, and I think of people actually being out and proud of who they weren't.

Yeah, no, I think that's a meaningful note. I think there's an element of generationalism involved that like, you know, Robert Plant, look at the difference in age and outlook between all the guys that I just mentioned, Mick Jagger, Freddie Mercury, Alton John, David Bowie, look at the difference in their age and circumstances to a need a Bryant. And a figure like a need a Bryant had so much invested in the previous generations idea of gender roles.

Like she's defending masculinity because if that gets blown up her position within that hierarchy, within that structure is threatened. Like, you know, cats and dogs living in that society. Yeah. You know, again, it's, it's mommy has to fight for me is kind of the subtext there. So weird. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting to see that develop or it makes even more sense to see it develop into I've got abs and I'm not fair. It's in here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah.

Yeah, that. So second wave feminism just to go on with all of that, starting in the early 60s, the feminist movement shifted focus from suffrage and legal equality, which was first wave feminism, to include much broader issues, like gender roles in the home, sexual and reproductive freedom, workplace equality. So this, this is all stuff that isn't

codified in law, but is part of the structure of these institutions. You know, I mean, it wasn't until at the earliest the 70s, trying to remember, yeah, domestic violence in the very existence of marital rape were issues that they brought up. Right. You know, and so it's, you're redefining the family unit and family responsibilities, which absolutely takes away from frankly undue power of the men in the relationship. Oh, yeah. You're on some level equalizing things. Oh, yeah. And that's that's terrifying from a certain point of view. And so, you know, we see multiple men's colleges in the United States merge with women's colleges, they go, go ahead. Oh, yeah.

Title nine got passed in 1972, which we mandated the funding women's educational opportunities. Most visibly, but not only in the arena of athletics, divorce laws across the country started to shift. Yeah, California went no fault in the arena of athletics. Divorce laws across the country started to shift. Yeah, California went no fault in the 1970s, early 70s. And all of that is this opening up of these again, systemic and kind of pattern on the wallpaper, kind of pattern on the wallpaper, kind of kind of gender issues that like, you know, if you'd grown up in the 1950s, that was just the way things were and having somebody actually like grab you by the forelock and go, uh, no, that's, that's, let's, let's look at how that's inherently unfair.

Right. You know, it would be, it could be, definitely, this kind of like foundational attack on identity and on like, well, what is anything meeting anymore? You know, if I can't come home and you know, pound a six pack and smack my wife, what the fuck, man? It was the point of being a man. Yeah. To a certain segment of the population, both male and female, are data-briant, high. These forces looked like they were eroding the very concept of masculinity

and the place of men. At the same time, this perceived diminution of men, coincided with a diminution of the United States's position on the world stage, while we were staring down the barrel of possible nuclear annihilation by the USSR. Right. And the USSR is on some levels. It's, it's that weird. it occupies both kind of things. On some levels, it is teeming with bristly hair on the back

and it's, you know, ape-like and it's a bear. It's very man, very man. And at the same time, there is a feminine aspect to it when spoken of it pejoratively. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, the collectivist aspects of the culture are denigrated in feminizing terms. And so I think now is probably a logical place for us to stick a pin in this. Okay. Before I go into talking about how the 60s and 70s sucked for the US on the world stage.

Yeah. But at this point, what have you believed or what are you gonna carry? Well, I got a feeling that everything we're gonna see in the movies of the 80s is going to largely be a rubber band and desperate attempt to reclaim space that they thought that was due to them and was lost by hyper masculine moviegoers and directors. It makes sense that John Millius would find a lot of work in 1980s.

Yeah, what I added to the script was mostly a lot of guns. Yeah. I'm never forget. Doing the research for Conan, that quote was like, oh shit. Okay. Yeah. I'm deaf for forgets. Doing the research for Conan. That quote was like, Oh, shit. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, I think I'm looking forward to the next episode when we start to see that rubber

banding happening. Yeah. In light of what we're about to talk about in the 70s. But also it is interesting to me that two of the biggest champions for masculinity in the 70s weren't meant. And how on its own, that could be a kind of an emasculating process. Yeah.

So, yeah. Weird. Yeah. All right, cool. Yeah. Very cool. Well, what you suggesting for people to read? What I'm going to suggest that people read is actually go back and find some of the original Robert E. Howard Conan stories. Oh, okay. Because while they are not anymore enlightened

than John Millenius' film, they at least have, in my opinion, a more coherent worldview, if that makes sense. And they are a remarkable example of very repulsive storytelling. a remarkable example of very repulsive storytelling. And while Conan is still a very masculine or hyper-masculinized figure, the way in which that gets expressed by a writer in the 1930s is very different from the way it gets depicted on the screen in 1980s. Yeah. And I think that's worth reading and thinking about that kind of change in characterization.

Yeah. So that's my recommendation. How about you? I'm going to actually recommend that people watch Red Sonia. Hmm. It was, it's a really interesting thing. If you look at the production history of Red Sonia, it's an interesting thing because of Arnold Schwarzenegger's involvement. But if you look at the, the issues involved in Red Sonia, you get into a lot of what we're talking about because they're your protagonist is a woman, but she's a woman doing very masculine things in a very masculine way, masculine code at least in that, you know, the orb that you got to grab and all that kind of stuff, if a man touches it, they're fucked. And then the gender reveal party at the end with the queen. So, and also, tonally, it feels very similar to Beast Master for me.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah. So, but yeah, I'm going to recommend, no, I'm sorry, it feels very similar to crawl for me, I apologize, but also to be very honest, those three, there's a layer of silliness and camp to, to each of them. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's I think it's worth re looking at, especially in light of what we're talking about, because it specifically addresses the issues of masculinity and femininity, at least as best as it can. In a very in a very structural,

essentialist also. Very much so. Very much so. So yeah. So that's my right. If people want to find you, Ken there, or are you? No, right now I am a shadow in the warp, as I've said before.

But we collectively of course can be found at www.neakhistorytime.com. We still have an account on Twitter at Geek History Time there. And where can you be found, sir? Honestly, I'm not sure when this little this recording will hit. I think it'll be after our February show. So for right now, just keep an eye out for, keep an eye out for capital punishment in Sacramento area. I think we'll be back at Luna's and then we might bounce back to Henry's seeing how we did in February.

But that's mostly where you can find me. I've been fairly inactive and inert on the social medias other than to share what my children are cooking, but that's not for you to find. So there you go. Yeah. But for a geek history of time um i'm Damien Harman. And i'm Ed Blaylock and until next time keep rolling 20s.