A Geek History of Time - Episode 234 - Why Eugenics Should Make Us Feel Bad About Liking Idiocracy Part III

Episode Date: October 21, 2023

I'm one hit the grocery store item two Audrey I'm three over through capitalism you know for somebody who taught lab Your inability to pronounce French like hurts. Oh look at you getting to the end of my stuff Mother fucker, but seriously I do think that this buccolic luxurious live your weird fucking dreams Like hurts. Damn, look at you getting to the end of my stuff. Motherfucker. But seriously, I do think that this bucolic, luxurious, live-your-weird fucking dreams kind of life is something worth noting. Ah, because of course he had.

I got new an argument essentially with some folks as to whether or not punching Nazis is something you should do. And they're like, no, then you're just as bad as the Nazis. I was like, the Nazis committed genocide. I'm talking about breaking noses. Drink scotch and eat strict nine. You can't leave that lying there luxury poultry. Yes. Yes. Fancy chickens. This is a geekGSV time. Well, we connect an early to the real world. And it's a play-lock in the world history and the live teacher here in Lodem, California,

at the sixth grade level. And today, we had the very rare joy of getting together with the Harmony family in person. We were actually all in the same room. Shit, I just forgot, I totally forgot to bring over two things I was supposed to bring for you to. The street continues. Yeah, it's unbroken. Sorry, I didn't. And I had the remarkable experience of coming very close to getting schooled in in atrivia, trivial pursuit, Dungeons and Dragons edition by by your daughter. Yes. who is a vunderkind, her got going on there. And I managed, I managed to pull out the sort of kind of victory we had to call the game early, but I had

more wedges than anybody else did, but it was a close thing. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. We need to, we need to find ways to get together more frequently, for sure. And after you all left, we did break out Munchkin, Warhammer 40,000 edition. And I need to play that against you and your kids, because I Julia is just competitive enough that I can see her using her genius for evil in a big way there. So yeah, so it was a great time, it was head by all. And yeah, so how about you?

Yeah, well, I'm Damien Harmony. I'm a US history teacher at the high school level up here in Northern California. And it was nice, because I got to meet friend of the show Brian, a friend of the show Kay. He's a both long time listeners. First time colors, um, but, uh, you got to meet them and, uh, K agreed with me that, in fact, it was feasible and, uh, no, she did not. You are, you are blatantly miss.

No, I, I, you are, you are, as you said, as you said to them, you said, this is co-opting. That is cooperating. I don't think you heard it. And now you're gaslighting because I was there. So, and I even drew up some schematics to show you that in fact, plaid would work on your ceiling. So I'm looking forward to seeing that in the next couple of years.

The violent, the violent wretching that this events in my wife was really quite a thing to say I have to say. So on the way home from said event, lovely time. Thank you for having me. Of course. Yeah. My son, for the first time, at least to my ears, passed through a right of passage. His voice cracked. Yeah. Oh, man.

And I was hearing him talk today. And last week, I'm like, dude, I don't remember your voice being that mid-range. It's normally higher. And it's it's it's dropping. So I'm like, hey, cool, man. I didn't make anything of it because I don't want to embarrass the dude because I don't know how kids feel about their voice cracking. but like I was pleased as punch. Nice. Very cool. Very cool. Also, I got permission from your daughter to mention this, so I need to bring it up. At one point, Damien was in the middle of some shaggy dog pun with another guest. And Julia said to you said, individual, I have to deal with them. It's like half of my life. I have to deal with them like this. Yeah. So it's it's yeah, I just see folks divorce can be good for children.

So it's, it's, yeah, I just be folks divorce can be good for children. It, it, it warmed my heart that like, okay, all right, it's not, it's, I mean, I knew it was not just me, but like, yeah, okay. So yeah, so that was, that was fun. And unfortunately, this, these next few episodes are not going to be so do you have your beer? I do I do it is an Anderson Valley bourbon barrel stout take a big gulp cuz What are we doing so while we're continuing with the eugenics movement into idiocracy? I had I had I had blocked out what we were in the middle of time I had I had I had blocked out what we were in the middle of talking Like all you had a bookmark

Shit all week. I've been like oh man. I haven't been able to do any research like things been crazy and I And and then you told me oh, yeah, no, I'm still in the middle of mine I went oh, yeah, yeah, and like literally right up until this moment. I had blocked out and like literally right up until this moment, I had blocked out the ugliness of what it was we were talking about. So great. Yeah, hold on a minute. Sorry about everything in between. Gulp, gulp.

Okay. All right. So if you remember, there was a sociologist, last name of Godard, who, remember, he studied a family, right? He studied the calcaxe. He made up name, has had to create Godard, right? He voted up in 1912.

I read to you like the very beginning. He added so much to our lexicon. And the thing was, he did own up to when he was wrong. He did seek to correct when he was wrong. But like I said, most people had already it answered their intuition and their desire to feel smart. Yeah. And ignored that part. Yeah. And and the amount of energy that is required to undo bullshit is exponentially greater than the amount of energy that it takes to put bullshit out there. Yeah. So, I mean, you can work really hard. Like, even if you are the most conscientious individual in the world, and like, no, I fucked up, I'm going to own the fact that I fucked up.

Like the guy who came up with alpha wolf. Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay, no, I was wrong. I didn't, I didn't, that's not how many of this works. Right. Nobody cares. Like, that's, that's an easy, that's an easy narrative and that, that plays to people's preconceived notions and they're just gonna cling to it, even if literally the person who put it out there is like, no, I was wrong. Yeah. And honestly, it plays to people's sense of exceptionalism. I, and my alpha. Therefore, I'm gonna believe in this.

Yeah, any motherfucker who thinks they're an alpha. Like anybody who has to take the time to think, well, you know what, I'm an alpha. No, one, one, no, you're not. Right. And you wouldn't be anyway. If such a thing existed. If such a thing existed.

Like, no, yeah, you would be a sink of ant to the actual to the actual, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. It's just a thing, we're saying. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, he also remember he was renorming things for IQ tests on Ellis Island, which was actually a step up despite how problematic those were. Yeah.

And so what's happening here is we're seeing with the jokes and the calcax, and there's another family thing called the Y yunds and essentially these family studies like these looks at what makes me better than people by using family studies really were coming into vogue in the nineteen teens and along with that came the idea that social change was futile if society wasn't going to select out the unfit. Like one fed the other. Okay. After all, these family studies had pictures and charts and graphs and books and articles and they were written by learned men who explained it all

in very complicated terms confidently and therefore the only way to truly improve society was forced sterilization. Okay, wait, back up. Because you mentioned previously, either in the last episode, or the one before that, when Apes says if we've done on this, anyway, that there was positive eugenics,

which was we want to get the smart people to fuck. Yes. And then negative eugenics, which is what you're talking about now. No. No step beyond negative eugenics is get the the people that we deem. So I don't want to fall into the same trap that they do. Well, they're smart and they're dumb. Get the people that are deemed by self appointed experts.

Yeah. As unfit in some way. get them to stop fucking. Okay. Okay. This is this now now we're moving, we're moving to another another step past that. Yeah, and it's reinforced by these family studies of you can't stop these people from fucking. Okay. All right. So yeah, all right. The whole, the whole how many men are descended from Chinggis Khan kind of like you know You've either got to stop this as a source or or by this calendar and the unknown strumpet so Okay, and and do you do you have a, can we put a pin in exactly where this escalation can

be traced directly to? Yes and no. I mean, I can certainly point to the first legislative efforts at such. I can certainly point to recommendations made after the CaliCax family study and the Duke family studies came out. And interestingly, you know, goodard, he, you know, he's like, hey, my shit was wrong, but and a lot of people who studied his stuff were like, oh, here's where he was really wrong, but they still wanted to stop the old procreation of those that they deemed their leccers.

Now this is happening in the 19 teens. This is when you are looking at American immigration, you cannot help but see that there are nearly 8 million people combined coming over from total, having come over in the last 40 years from Italy and Austria hungry. And that means Catholics and, you know, those feeble-minded ones who believe in the Abrahamic texts only to a point because, you know, naturally. And then then at the same time, but boy are they crafty. Like it goes back and forth. Well, yeah, you know, it always does. It's the Brodinger's racist. Yeah, but so you have that. You have, I want to say, two million Russians

coming over in those 40 years. And those are sloths. So, yeah, Southern Europeans, sloths. Yeah. You do have like two million Norwegians coming over, which is to be celebrated, of course. But, and you have, in that period of time, you have, if you combine Chinese and Japanese immigration, you have just about 400,000 Japanese and Chinese immigrants total. Okay.

That's it. Although in the West Coast people talked about it like it was just this teaming horde of people all at once. Yeah, well, yeah. That's the earliest American kind of kind of wave of yellow, yellow peril. Well, and they passed a specific law in 1888 saying, yeah, we all are excluded. Um, and the Japanese, uh, you know, Consulate was like, yo, that's, that's not us. We are Japanese. Like, it's different. And I mean, there's this whole embarrassing thing where the

president had to get involved to tell the people of San Francisco, like, stop being such shith shitheads to Japanese people. Just do it to the Chinese people. Like, like, pick and choose. Wow. Yeah. But yeah. So that's what's going on.

And so of course, the way to, um, kind of, you know, Roosevelt himself said that it was every white woman's duty to have four babies. Yeah. Like he's, he's never for the he's never for the sake of the numbers. Yeah. And I mean, this gets to replacement theory pretty quickly, right? Basically, instantly. Yeah. Yeah.

But the argument for forced sterilization was fairly simple. It meant targeting individuals who were considered unfit for continued procreation due to their genetics, and therefore it was a public good and if it's a public good during the progressive era then by gum it should be done. Now you automatically have one population that you can just point to and say look they are not pulling their own weight in society. They if they get pregnant it is disastrous and we guarantee that the state will have to take care of their children. These are people who are considered wards of the state. People who work. And so you've got prisoners, possibly, but you also have people who are institutionalized. And therefore, their legal guardians were the administrators of

these institutions. So the same people who are saying, you know, we should probably sterilize people are the people who are in charge of these people's care. And also people who are deemed incorrigible by the courts, all of them were considered potentially fit for sterilization, for forced sterilization. Okay. So what were the were there ever any legislated or regulated guidelines about what incorrigible meant? Like is it a three strikes? Very state to state. Okay.

It certainly was kind of left largely to the people who were in charge of these institutions which were underfunded. And like, there is, again, I'm not going to sympathize with these people. I'm not going to say that I agree with them in any way, but I understand the logic that got them to saying this, right? If you are put in charge of an asylum for the epileptics and the corregibles, which was very commonly like that was what it was called. If you were put in charge of that, um, you would see these people and, and, you know, I'm going to assume best of faith here for just a second. Okay, wouldn't charge. Uh, you see these people as people that need

your guidance. Thank goodness you've come along. You are so much better and smarter. And they have been deemed this that and the other. And they are not getting the care that they need. And if they were to get pregnant, that would be bad for them because they're not capable of taking care of themselves. And therefore, their children would probably genetically carry the same things. And that's where, again, they're going back to Lamarck and Epigenetics. Right. But also you could go back to Darwin and say, like, look, certain things do pass down in

family lines. Yeah. Yeah. After all, they were measuring heads and stuff like that, you know, for an on-view as a thing. Again, they were getting it wrong, but, you know, they were using the science that they knew. Yeah.

It was a good science, because, again, they hadn't discovered that either wasn't a substance. So the first court case to reach the Supreme Court about this. So you have these people who think that they're doing right by these folks. This is the best chance they have at life and they don't know enough to make a decision about their own fertility. Therefore, we should take that away from them because if they don't know enough to make that decision, they certainly can't take care of a child. That's the argument that they're using. Again, I have to like put those in big parentheses, Damien doesn't think this. Damien is explaining what these people thought. So the first one to come to the Supreme Court regarding forced sterilization came from Virginia. The Eugenics Referred Office in Cold Springs,

Harbor, New York had actually written a prototype of a law to improve upon a failed Eugenics law in Indiana. So Indiana tried. It failed miserably. It did not hold you to muster. So the eugenics record office, plenty of really smart people. They're like, let's write a better law and give it to our friends in Virginia. And they wrote a prototype of a law that states that said that states could use forced sterilization upon people who are deemed fit for sterilization. So you have to go through a means testing, if you will. This person is fit for sterilization. Therefore, it is in the state's interests to do this. And that supersedes a personal interest. It's almost like imminent domain, but with your ovaries.

And which gets to a fun story that I'm gonna tell you in a second, but also also they also do make the arguments to judges that this is also in this patient's best interest. I know because I've been taking care of this patient for X number of years. Now, you guess what the color of the hair of the judges and the people who are in charge of this was and the color of their skin. So just real quick, that thing I said about eminent domain back in the 1990s. I don't know if this is still true, but back in the 1990s, the state of Iowa declared

that a woman's reproductive organs were the property of the state. Um, what? Yeah. What? Well, I mean, you do get into some interesting stuff. Like, if I have the right to do with my body as I see fit, right? Let's say I want to remove, I leave my reproductive organs out of it for a second. I want to remove a pinky finger.

And then I want to put that up as art or I want to sell it online or shit like that. You can get into some like really messed up stuff. It, it, I think you could make the argument that the state should step in and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's, let's not do this. Well, one of the ways you can do that is by declaring essentially imminent domain over a body part that's no longer a part of your person, right? You have the right to your person. You don't have a right to the organs that have been taken out. That's kind of now, okay. I don't agree with it, but I think that's where the state of Iowa was going. So they declared that a friend of my professors had a history of me. Yeah. And so she told her surgeon. She's like, okay, we'll put it in a jar. Like,

what are you going to do with it? Oh, we're going to do a pathology and blah, blah. She's like, okay, we'll put it in a jar. Like, what are you gonna do with it? Oh, we're gonna do a pathology in Bulbas. She's great. Afterwards send it to the state house. It's theirs. Which, I'm just like, fuck this woman's awesome. Damn. Yeah. So.

Anyone it's so bad. What are you gonna do with it? Here we go. Yeah. So, okay, so there was a failed Indiana law. Virginia had a better version that came from New York because you Genesis don't care about state lines as much. Better. Yeah. Well, air calls up to, held up to to judicial scrutiny. Okay. Yeah. Stronger, judicially stronger.

Yeah. Now, the founder of the Eugenics Record Office, if you recall, was Charles Davenport. And Harry H. Loughlin or Loughlin was the first director of this place. I just want to put pins in those names. Virginia adopted this law after lawyers evaluated it as saying, oh no, this would hold up under constitutional scrutiny in 1924. And then the law would make its way. It would get challenged and it would make its way up to the Supreme Court. And it became known as the Buck V. Bell case of 1925. All right. Okay. So, Kerry Buck, this is the, this is the stuff that like made me wish I

drank. Kerry Buck was one of three children born to Emma Buck, a woman known in Charlottesville for being poor and having been abandoned by her husband. Emma Buck, this is the mom, was also later committed to the Virginia State colony for the epileptics and feeble minded. That was the name of the place. Okay. Anytime you put the in front of something, it always makes me worried. Okay. Anytime you put the in front of something, it always makes me work. Mm-hmm. Or the epileptic and feeble minded. Now this, she was institutionalized because she had no money to take care of herself. She could go nowhere and she contracted syphilis, which meant she was receiving medical care.

So she's not epileptic. Correct. She does not suffer from cognitive disability. Well, no, you get siblings and it makes you feeble. Oh, okay. Now, I would say third stage, syphilis does do that to you. Yes. These are also treatable conditions that you could. Yes.

I'm going to say something about the fact that she was enduring accusations of immorality and prostitution certainly helped make the case that she belonged in an institution. Such institutionalizations were common at the time and in that place and the administrative, well, fucking, they were common everywhere. But the administrators would later deem the detainee is being mentally incompetent. Okay. later, deem the detainee is being mentally incompetent. Okay. So that happened fairly frequently as happened to Emma Buck. Okay. So you are a woman of loose moral standards. Therefore, you are incorrigible. You are a woman who's contracted syphilis. So we can't have you running around spreading it. Now there is something about that. However, maybe contact trace, the other people involved in the spreading of this endless. Yeah. You know, I go back to the very diseases act of the very 60s. Yeah. Like a very least to the contact

trace or maybe beyond that. Like, well, okay, no, we're too early for it to be cured because penicillin isn't around yet. Never mind. True. But vulcanized rubber is. This is true. So, you know, and again, like, so, so there's a lot of ways that they could have done this, but they didn't. So she gets deemed mentally incompetent by people who are in charge. What, you know, what possibly defense can she offer against it that wouldn't see. She's mentally incompetent. You know, it's like that kind of, um, her daughter, Carrie Buck was alive at the time. She was then placed in the foster care of the dobs family as an infant. Okay. Okay. So Emma has an infant. She also has syphilis. There's a concern, etc. Okay, so carry

The daughter infant daughter grows up and attended public school Raised by the dobs family mom is in institution She was carry was by all accounts a fairly average student Okay, now I have to share my experience of Florida public school carry was by all accounts a fairly average student. Okay. And now I have to share my experience of Florida public school. You could be a really good student and still get a C real quick based on how they measure grades. And you know, it's a punitive system. It's a takeaway points from you system.

It absolutely is. If you have one bad day, your grade just fucking drops. You get like a quiz that's four questions and you miss two of them. That's a 50%. That's not, you miss two out of four points. And that 50% now drags your 100% on a, on a, on a quiz that had a hundred questions, drags it down to a 75. Yeah. Okay. 75 is barely a C. Yeah. Right. Okay. So average student. Yeah. She's an average student by all accounts, right? Nothing that anyone noted at the time as mental deficiency. Right. Okay. When she was in sixth grade, which makes her 11, 12 years old, 11, 12, yeah. Okay. The dobses

pulled her out of public school to help with chores around the house. Again, this is not uncommon at this time. Yeah. Okay. Now, fast forward to her being 17. She's been helping around the house because the dobsers are having other kids. Their nephew, Clarence Garland, shows up, stays the summer, and he rapes Carrie Buck. Now due to this sexual assault, she becomes pregnant. And as a result, the Dobbs family had her committed to the Virginia State colony for the epileptics and feeble minded. Because they're nephew raped her? Yep. Because of the embarrassment that that would carry. And so they wanted to hide it, right? So if you just put her away, that's the whole, you know,

well, when I was in school, kids didn't get pregnant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they fucking dead. But yeah, they wanted to avoid the shame and hide the embarrassment of what their nephew had done. So, you know, Southern justice. Now, the dobses said the reason she's going in is because she's feeble-minded. They also added to that. She's also promiscuous, like uncontrollably promiscuous and incorrigible. She gets committed in January and gives birth in March, which means that the only point at which they committed her was when she started to show.

And I just, I need to get this out of my system. They have been raising this girl since infancy, young woman since infancy. She has been a part of their family. Yes. They are the only parents she's ever known. Now we don't know what the interactions were like. I didn't dig deep enough into the family history to see if they always treated her as a second class citizen or as a servant in their home. But it has that vibe. It will, one, it totally has that vibe.

Number two, even if that's the case, they are still the only family or parents she's ever known. She never knew her own mother. Right. And to do that, like, I want to build a time machine just to go back in time and punch Mr. Dobson in the neck. Oh, no, you're gonna want to wait because you're really gonna want to punch the shit out of him

by the time I'm done. Oh, fuck. Oh, yeah, yeah. All right, I already, okay, well, carry on. I already want to, but. Yeah, it gets worse. It is gonna get much, much worse. Okay, so, Carrie Buck, if she gets committed

in January, she gives birth in March. I'm trying to remember when her mom died, her mom, I'm trying to remember if her mom was institutionalized in the same spot as she was at that time. I don't remember. I'm sorry. But so now the story shifted to carry. Okay. So Emma. Absolutely was was institutionalized. Carries born to an institutionalized woman. Therefore, she went into the foster care of the dobses, raised from infancy until she started showing pregnancy from a rape of their nephew committed, Clarence Garland committed on her. When she starts showing, that's when they push her out.

So all the free labor until then. They say that she's feeble minded, she's promiscuous, she's in court. And since she was declared mentally incompetent by virtue of those reasons, she was then committed to, like I said, the Virginia State colony for the epileptics in feeble minded. And that means that she also won't get to raise her own baby.

Now she names it. So she has Vivian in 1924. Vivian had to be adopted out. Guess who adopted Vivian to Vivian Alice Elaine dobs Now Vivian attended school starting in 1930 and She went through to about 1932 so she starts at about five years old and goes until she's about eight She even got on the honor roll Vivian did Okay, and then she got held back here which, Vivian did, okay? And then she got held back here, which again, very fucking common, okay? You could be honor rolling it and then you get held back here, like by virtue of, like again, it's a very punitive system.

They loved holding kids back, like when I went there, like again, I've shared this story, I think, where we had a field day for all the local schools and by local, I mean within the whole county. And one school, we got second place, we're fifth grade. We got, yeah, in fifth grade, I believe. We got second place in the tug of war. The school we lost to, one of the main reasons we lost to them was because all of those

fifth graders drove themselves to the field day. They'd been held back so many times along with us. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Now some would call that holding to a standard, but it seems a lot to a certain point. Yeah. Yeah. So Vivian dies from an infection brought on by the measles in 1932, the age of eight. Now in 1932, roughly 6,000 people a year were dying from the measles or from secondary infections brought about by the measles. Now by 1968, 36 years later, that number was almost zero. I'm going to let you guess what caused such a drastic reduction between 1932 and 1968. Oh, vaccines. Yeah. Now, vaccines cause adults late. Which means vaccines cause prostate cancer. Thank you. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Check rate. Overall. Right. Okay. Now, this story isn't depressing for that reason.

For the death of a child at eight, it's not depressing for that reason. No, we're going to go back to Carrie Buck. Her attorney who argued on her, so this is a woman whose mother was institutionalized, who was adopted away by a family that pulled her out of school in sixth grade to do chores around the house,

who was then seven years later, or six years later, five years later, raped by their nephew, and then institutionalized, gave birth and lost the baby to the family that allowed her to be raped. Yeah. And then that baby died eight years later. She's been institutionalized this whole time. Okay, so at this point, she's 25. Kerry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Her attorney who argued on her behalf that imposing a forced sterilization on her was a

violation of her due process rights. Yeah. He was a close friend of the superintendent of the Virginia State colony for the epileptics and feeble minded. Oh, okay. Yeah, he grew up with that guy and he did a poor job of arguing her case. Her lawyer was also childhood friends with the man who'd written the law calling for her forced sterilization. So this is the guy representing her in the Supreme Court.

As a result, the Supreme Court ruled eight to one in support of the Virginia state law that allowed and encouraged forced sterilization, citing that due process had not been violated and that it was also not a cruel or unusual punishment because it was not a punishment. It's not a punishment. You didn't commit a crime. This is not part of a sentence. Therefore, it's not a punishment. We're doing it free-roam good. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And I want to know the gymnastics that went into arguing that that do process had not somehow been highlighted. Well enter all of her window homes. Here he is in his majority opinion. Quote. Okay, we have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. So in other words, we draft. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sapped the strength of the state for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such, not often not felt

to be such by those concerned to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbicility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the fallopian tubes. The three generations of imbosols are enough. What the fuck? So he linked it to mandatory vaccines as a public good. He, he said, hey, we draft people and asked them to lay down their

lives for our country. This isn't that. So I mean, and most of them won't even notice. Now, you and I both chose to get the old snippy snippet. Yeah. And I don't notice a difference. No. Right. But, but that's a decision we both made. Right. After we had had the opportunity to become fathers. Right.

And I had a friend who chose tubal ligation when she was in her mid 20s. Yeah. And she got to make that choice. Yes. Like, like choosing this is fine. Choosing, yes. Making the decision to, okay, look,

I do not want to have kids. Right. Or for whatever my reasons are, whether it is I hate small children, I'm a germaphob. I want to live a life where I can fuck for fun and not have to worry. Yeah.

So many things. Or you know what, certain shit runs in my family and I don't want to raise a kid that might suffer from that. Yeah. So many things. Or, you know what, certain shit runs in my family, and I don't wanna raise a kid that might suffer from that. Yeah. A valid and frankly, a negative eugenics choice

that a person makes for themselves. For themselves. Okay, fine. Cool. I have a friend who actually, like has refused to have children because of genetic makeup in their family. Okay. Okay.

Okay. You do know what? Yeah. The, the, the, having a judge rule that it's okay. Yeah. And, and like, yeah. I know. The jurisprudence shouldn't, shouldn't override bioethics.

Yeah. And bioethics at that time was a really fucking low bar. Yeah, bioethics that bioethics at that time didn't really exist. Right. Like, you know, I think it exists because of shit like this. Yes, yes, as a matter of opinion, yes. All your safety regulations are written in blood by the way your bioethics regulations are written in horror stories. Yes And this is one of them So yeah, you want to go the mental gymnastics there it is And it's all of her window homes too

Right Nobody's a good guy like my brother brother, my dude, like come on. Yeah, no. Swing in a mist, dude. Swing in a mist. Yeah. So Carrie Buck was forcibly sterilized and her alleged promiscuity and three generations of people minded us were both accepted as true by the Supreme Court without any evidence

presented. Okay. So wait. If we accept the idea that her mother was people minded and we accept that she was people minded, there's no indication that her daughter, who I'm assuming is the third generation they're talking about. There's no indication that the third, there's no indication of feeble. She was held back feeble mind. She was held back. And I mean, Carrie couldn't even get out of the X-ray.

So yeah, the tale is 100% wagging the dog. So much neck punching. So many throat. I wore my God. I told you many people need to get smoked. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. Oh, God. So it's believe it or not, it actually does get worse. Um, so they accept this. Therefore, you need to time those remarks when I'm not. I'm sorry. I very nearly sprayed. Oh, the beer that I need to be drinking. Yeah, that's true. Nearly wound up on the monitor. So like little consideration, please. I apologize.

It is in the state of Virginia. That's the interest that she before, so we sterilized according to this total lack of evidence that's brought forward. She accepted is true. And because this wouldn't truly be horrible if we just left it there. Oh God. Her sister Doris, who was not deemed feeble-minded, was also forcibly sterilized without Doris' knowledge, worrying in appendectomy. The fuck? I told you it got worse. I told you. So because you are the sister of a woman

who was raped by the nephew of the people who took care of you. So much throat punching. So Doris got an appendectomy and they're like, well, we better sterilize and they did. And it's not until 1980 that Doris finds out why she and her husband can't conceive. What? Yeah. Cause they wanted to have kids and they couldn't. And back then, it's not like fertility was like a growth industry. Yeah. So, although I mean, so what, okay.

So they performed, what surgery did they perform on her? She was having an appendectomy. Yeah. And then they, to sterilizer they tied her tube, tied her to. Yeah, tubal ligationation to the ligation. It might have been fall on removal at that time.

I don't I don't know what the process was to be honest. Okay, because because what I wonder is is if it took that long for her to understand why she was not able to conceive like I would assume a woman would notice like if she'd had a hysterectomy. Yeah, because as a big horror stare was it yeah, because because you know she'd noticed that she's not menstruating anymore. And she would have gone through menopause. Yeah, like instantly. Yeah, so okay. I reckon it's like even yeah, Jesus. I don't know. Okay. I mean, it's still fucking horror show, but yeah, so and nobody and like she

No, no care providers nobody looked in her medical record and was like, hey Did you were aware like this never came up? Keep in mind you're being a bit presentist with the concept of charting and keeping track of these kinds of things. See, if you think you're doing the right thing, there should be no problem with there's, you know, I would point to a certain regime in Germany that was really good about their paperwork because they thought they were doing the right thing on some levels. But these folks, you know, it's for society's own good, and you know, we're gonna have to, you know, not make an omelet, you know, you have to sterilize some eggs. So, yeah.

What the fuck? Okay. Yeah. In fact, the Virginia State colony for the epileptics and feeble-minded had more than 8,000 people forcibly sterilized in its time. Now, eight thousand, not not in a year, but like over that course.

Over, over, yeah, no, I understand. That's a fuck ton of generations that didn't ever exist. That's because these first realizations are almost all on the women too. Yeah, not all not all. There were plenty of men who also were sterilized and then impotence type stuff and something that and but that you know, I'm focusing on carrybook. Yeah. So, um, now, carrybook is no longer a danger to society. Now, Carrie Buck is no longer a danger to society and because she can't breed and therefore she doesn't really need to be institutionalized anymore.

So in 1932, she gets released. I think 1932, maybe 1935, she gets released from her institutionalization and shortly after the forced sterilization happens, and then she gets married twice. Okay. Because now she can be poor and infertile, and cost the state as much as it would to keep her in an institution. You see Jesus Christ. She's no longer feeble minded enough to be a worry, which is weird when like, again,

you said she was feeble minded. Yeah. And then you sterilized her and that up to her IQ, like how? How exactly is that? How does that work? Right. And then you sterilized her and that up to IQ like how How exactly is that how does that work right? And in later interviews Carrie Buck did state that she regretted not being able to conceive She was interviewed multiple times throughout her life and at no time did an interviewer note any mental deficiency Obvious in the course of their interviews. Mm- interviews. She died in 1983 and was buried near her daughter Vivian. So I just want to point out. Yes. Eight thousand people sterilized. Yes. That is roughly a short division in the army. That's the entirety of my children's school district plus about 500.

Not of the girls, the total thing. All of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've lived in towns smaller than that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he defaults. So from 1907 through 1963, more than 64,000 people were lawfully sterilized against their will. And after Buck V Bell in 1927, more states followed Virginia's lead. California was the most prolific state in these efforts, forcibly sterilizing more than 20,000 people in that time frame.

That's one out of every three orfour sterilizations happened right here in California. I want one in three of them. Yeah, roughly. I mean 20,000 out of 64,000. Yeah, a little bit under, you know, these are estimations because You've got to break a few eggs. Yeah um now Do do We have Because I mean, I say we are there Statistics on like what the what the

What the reasoning what like how how do those sterilizations break down? Like we have this many of them who are sterilized for for being in basils, for being in quote unquote, inbacillic, we have this many that were sterilized for, you know, incorrigible criminality, we have this many that were like, you know, they were just, they were just the wrong kind of not white

people, like, you know, what we'll get into a vengeance for sterilization during the civil rights movement in a bit. Um, okay. Yeah. But very often it was cut across the cut down the poverty line, right? If you were poor, you were much more likely. Um, if you were a criminal, you were much more likely. If you were a woman who had sex much more likely. If you were a woman

who had sex for fun, but didn't marry a guy, it was much more likely. If you were Irish and unmarried, it was much more likely. You got to remember, they're, they're belief over, these things overlap, right? So the belief that's by jerking off too much, you're softening your brain, that's going to make you insane. And therefore, Lamarck and that's going to pass on. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So chronic masturbators, which was actually a reason to institutionalize people, I found in asylum sheet in in California, where 35 of the hundreds something people that were there were Irish. And that was the given reason for why they were institutionalized because Irish was the nice way of saying jerks off a lot

because it was believed that the Irish because they married later. So, okay, so they didn't actually have to catch you with it in your hand. No. Repeatedly. No. But also if you're frequenting Bordeaux and things like that. Okay, if you're frequenting Bordeaux, then you're not joking off. You are still spilling your cylinder.

That's counter. And if you do it chronically, you're gonna dumb yourself down Okay, right so so okay wait in a family It's presumed that you're trying to fuck for kids if you enjoy yourself while you're doing it great But you're trying to fuck so that you can have kids If you're a single man and you're constantly visiting these places, typically you tend to be poor because the rich men But also yeah That wow

The science base all of the uninterrogated like preconceptions they're involved in all of that preconceptions, they're involved in all of that. Well, do you know what like took up the most space in some catalogs in the 1860s and 70s that got sent out West? Oh, yeah, uh, uh, devices to, to discourage, uh, let dreams and master. Yeah. That's right. Oh, yeah. They were freaked out that their kids were dumbing down. That's why circumcision grew in America. It was really specific. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Specifically to stop boys from masturbating because you are less sensitive. If your foreskin is removed, that was the prevailing belief. Okay. I'm recently, I just read an article like three weeks ago or two weeks ago. But it recently was like, no, it really doesn't make it. It doesn't. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm just going to point out anecdotally. Sure. You know, which like an anecdote is not statistics, but I, I don't think

didn't slow me down one day. I can, I can, yeah, I can say from personal experience that, that being circumcised did not prevent me from figuring out how to do that. And doing that probably more than my fair share as a, as a, as a youngster. Sure. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, I'm sure that there are certain people who would possibly argue that maybe it did lead to me being feeble minded. I don't know. I was already there. Yeah, okay. I mean, it could be.

Yeah, I mean, yeah. Previous condition. No, you're absolutely right. You know, but like, yeah. There was a lot of ink spilled to stop seed from being spilled. Like, what? You're right.

Did not. I mean, I don't want to do it. Like all of the people writing all of those articles, like the doctors who wrote those articles, right? Yeah. All of them, all of the men, all of them keep in mind that it took to be a doctor back then. Well, but hold on, though.

Okay. This is the thing. Keep in mind what it took to be a doctor back then. Well, but hold on. No, okay. This is the thing. Um, part of what it generally took to be a doctor was having a dick, right? Yep. Um, and, and it's not like wet dreams, nocturnally missions, whatever word you want to use for it. It's not like that suddenly became a, a thing that had never happened before. All of the doctors were writing these articles like they ruined their sheets when they were 13.

Sure. So like you had you managed to become a fucking doctor. So like where do you get off? Haha. You know, trying to argue that, well, you know, mothers, you got to be going to stop your boys from doing this. So they're going to want to people might not dodge that bullet. Look at me. I'm a doctor.

Yeah, you're a doctor. And my exceptionality that saved me, your son is not exceptional. You are too poor to be exceptional. I was exceptional. There is so much to unpack in that statement. You are too poor to be exceptional. I was exceptional. There is so much to unpack in that statement. You are too poor to be exceptional. Wow. Okay. Yeah. All right. That's why. All right. So again, so you're also talking about, like, I would put this, this reminds me of a time that I was at an open mic. And somebody was talking about how Mercury was in retrograde. Now, I don't really know what that means.

I think it spins a different way or something or, or, or, or, I don't know and I don't care. Okay. I could get into the explanation and the material. What we're talking about right now. But this person then said, yeah, well, you know, mercury is in retrograde and other people are like, yeah, yeah, they nodded knowingly. And I'm like, okay, cool. Um, and then he's like, but did you also know that they start naming other planets and other heavenly bodies that were also in retrograde. And therefore, and everybody kept nodding along. And I felt like Kathy Bates and misery.

Like, are you people crazy? If you didn't get out of the cockadoody car, like I, I'm like sitting there going like, none of y'all motherfuckers who are nodding along with this idiot who's making shit up and maybe they were right. I don't know. I don't care. But none of y'all actually knew that. And you're nodding along because you don't want to be the one caught out saying like,

well, there's no clothes on that ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think doctors had the same group thing going on. Okay, all right. So that's- I want to be the guy who challenges this shit because I'm also a fraud and a hack. Oh, okay.

Okay. At least through the 1870s, 1880s, right? And then by the time he gets to the 19 teens, there is some professionalism that goes along with being a doctor, but not much. And you still have a lot of the old heads holding the case to the kingdom. And now the new science is like, oh shit, that's cutting edge. He's getting money. He's, he's getting influence.

I better not go against what he says. Or if I do, I'd better cannibalize it and say, we're shit. And so it's a pack of stock. Take that and go farther. Yeah. So, so it's a combination. So it's, they're huffing their own paint. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Now, do you remember the venereal disease expert from the army in 1918 that I mentioned last time? Paul Popano.

I remember you mentioning him. I didn't remember the name. Okay. Yeah. He's back, maybe. Oh, no. Yeah. So Paul Popano joined up with Ezra Seymour Gossney.

Oh, there's a name. I know a Californian rich person, which these combinations will occur a time and time again, a doctor and a California rich person. Now Ezra Seymour Gossney made a lot of money with lemons. And he also established the Boy Scouts chapter in California, the very first one. Again, he spent a lot of money on eugenicist causes. Oh, yes, of course he did.

And what's interesting is there is a weird connection between citrus and eugenics in California. A lot of the people that put a lot of money into eugenics were citrus. They got rich on citrus specifically. Well, okay. I mean, from a philosophical, I'm trying to think what's the right word, but from the crossbreeding plants and they recognize that they can actually guide the evolution of a new lemon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that absolutely has a lot to do with it.

Now, the control that comes from that, by the way, and the knowledge that certain traits can be gained or gotten rid of, right, serves to bolster that hubris to think that they can and should do so with humanity. So in 1925, as we see more Gossani, bank rolled an effort by Pope No, okay? By Paul Pope No, the expert on venereal disease in 1918 in the army, to research the effectiveness of a California, or to research the effectiveness of a California compulsory sterilization law.

So hey, could we do this here? Gossian Pope and O published sterilization for human betterment, a summary of results of 6,000 operations in California in 1909 to 1929. And they published it in 1929. So it was cutting-edge shit. The book argued successfully that forced sterilization of those deemed unfit was legal, was moral and harmless to those in the state who were chosen by the state to be forcibly sterilized because fruit. And I'm going to come back to this later because I'm going to go in hard on Northern California and Sacramento specifically.

Okay. Yeah. Now because fruit. Because fruit. Yeah. Now, because fruit. Because fruit. I'm still getting over that. Okay. Now, by the 1930s, the idea of eugenics was so baked into the dominant culture, and again, this is what our podcast has always been about.

There are a number of movies had mercy killing as a plot point. Um, um, um, look at the rabbits, George. killing as a plot point. Look at the rabbit's George. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's, but that wasn't to keep Lenny from fucking. That's the point. Yeah, no, but you're right. It's there. Right?

And it's specifically somebody with developmental delays. Right? Okay. Now back in 1917, shortly after the popularity of birth of a nation was starting to wane, because that show was popular for over a year and a half. A movie called The Black Stork came out. Oh, I am not going to like where this goes. I can tell you're going to love its alternate title. Are you fit to marry? What? What?

Uh huh. Now it was written by Harry J. Heiselden, who was the son of a drifter painter turned head surgeon of a hospital in Illinois. I want to say it was like the German hospital in Illinois. While he was still a resident in that hospital, he'd opened Bethesda industrial home for incurables. Okay. Yeah, no, here's an island. Exactly. He cares about people. He cares about the and and and my goodness. And later in life, uh, having worked well,

having worked well. It's interesting. He worked with the state of Illinois in other such institutions as the one he'd opened in Illinois and he was very much against the existence of these institutions after a while. Okay. And it seems, it's what I would say being wrong for the right reasons. Okay. He saw the horrid conditions and treatments and neglect of people who deserve better. Okay. It's like the institution should not exist.

Look what they're doing to these poor people. Okay. All right. Now the next step he takes is the one where I want to club him in the back of the fucking head with a table leg. Okay. Because you know, if I agree with a guy like this, you know I'm setting you up, right? Yeah. Yo, yeah. So his solution to not, we don't, these institutions do more harm than good solution. Let them die rather than to live like that. Because of course he did. Okay. Let them let them. So when he says let them die, what is that translate to? Like how

is the amount is in November 15th, 1915 chief surgeon and now president of the hospital Harry J. Heiselden. Now this predates the movie. Keep in mind, so I'm going back a little bit. Okay. He was informed that Anna Bolinger had given birth to a baby boy with birth defects. And though he determined that the surgery that surgery could save the child's life, chief surgeon and president of the hospital Harry J. Heiselden, convinced Anna Bollinger and her husband to neglect baby John Bollinger until he died because that was preferred to living the life that Heiselden predicted

to pour the child. And I found a newspaper at the time, quote, but Heiselden decided the baby was too afflicted and fundamentally not worth saving. It would be killed. The method denial of treatment. Oh wow. Now this got into the juice big time because what the fucking fuck right even back then

people are like whoa, whoa, whoa, this baby white. I'm not wrong, but you're not. I made that part out. But so, heizled in solution to these institutions is is is lethal neglect. Yeah. So Jane Adams and Helen Keller both took opposite sides in this argument. Jane Adams, the one who founded like, you know, the the the houses for for people I forget what they're called. Um, you know, the Jane Adams and Chicago and they've got all these. They're more than just halfway houses, you know, they're She spoke against Heiselden Which means that Helen Keller took his side

Yeah, Helen Keller born born fine, but ended up going deaf and blind She took his side in an article that she titled quote, physicians, juries for defective babies defending his actions. Okay, so if you said, Oh, you're going to tell me either way. If I had to read it, you have to hear it. Quote by Helen Keller. Yeah, I get it. Yes, Helen Keller. Helen, fucking Keller.

Yeah, who was right on so many other things. I'm going to go out on a limb and say she was wrong here because she said, quote, it is the possibilities of happiness, intelligence, and power that give life its sanctity and their absent in the case of a poor mis mischievous, paralyzed, unthinking creature. I think there are many more clear cases of such hopeless death in life than the critics of Dr. Heiseldin realize.

The toleration of such anomalies tends to lessen the sacredness in which normal life is held. And then she goes on, quote, there is one objection, however, to this weeding of the human garden that shows a sincere love of true life. Yeah, she said weeding of the human garden. Quote, it is the fear that we cannot trust any mortal with so responsible and delicate a task. Yet have not mortals for long ages been entrusted with the decisions of questions just as monumentous or just as momentous and far reaching. And then quote, it seems to me that the simplest wisest thing to do would be to submit cases like that of the malformed idiot baby to a jury of expert physicians. And then she ended with quote,

we must decide between a fine humanity like Dr. Heiseldins and a cowardly sentimentalism. A fine humanity. He's a fine human being with tremendous humanity in his heart. That's why he let a baby die from neglect. Now, I don't know where you stand on the euthanasia and things like that. I bet it's pretty nuanced. Mine is probably blessed nuanced because I don't have any kind of religious compunctions. Yeah. That being said, those all hinge on fucking choice and consent. Yeah. So, I'm- So this is, yeah. There's so much here. Go for it. Okay. So, this is the part of which I took a nap. I was like, no, I'm sleeping.

I'm going on my day. Yeah, yeah, and I don't blame you. Um, my, my, Helen Kelly, my reaction. Yeah, Helen Kelly and I can tell her now it's important to note, as you did, that Helen Keller was not born with the conditions that led to her life circumstances. That is indeed correct. So this is, to a certain extent, this is not her ox being gourd in this specific case, correct? Okay. So it's easy for her to then use her social position.

Yeah, good. Yeah, capital. I like that. Use the social capital associated with being who she was to make this argument. When in fact, she's not a member of the category of people that's being affected by this, but outside observers would look at her. She had been deaf and blind since roughly 19 months old. Yeah. So, it was on its way out, you know. Yeah, and Scarlett fever, right? In her case. And she's, I believe so, yeah. And she's famous for it, right?

She's absolutely famous for it. Yeah. So you're absolutely right. So people like see. Yeah, like number one bullshit. Like right off the bat, no, Helen, this is, this is, gonna look awful because here I am a cishead white guy telling a, a, you know, disabled, uh, uh, woman to sit down and shut up.

But I'm going to say it here because that's no. You don't, you don't, you don't, you don't get to speak for these people. And even though in your own head, you might not be speaking for those people, your audience is going to take you as speaking for those people because they're going to lump you in with those people, whether you recognize that or not. And if you do recognize that, fuck you with a sleeper sofa, sideways, with a bed extended, to quote,

yeah, to quote friend of the show Bishop O'Connell of his favorite phrases there. It is easy to generalize and not think much. Yeah. So when she is for most of her life been disabled in those very specific ways. Yeah. See? Yes.

Yes. Yeah. So I want to get that out of the way right away. Sure. Sure. Now the next thing is, um, I was born a twin, uh-huh. And I grew up in only child. I don't know if I've talked about that here on the podcast. I know I've told you that story.

Oh, yeah. I'm well aware. Um, but, um, as someone who was born in circumstances that under this kind of thinking Potentially would have been left to die Right now in 1920 something 1930 something the technology to prevent me from dying would not have existed. So that would have been prayer.

Yeah, that would have been, but with that being said, this is a situation of, well, you know, this is treatable, but we're choosing not to treat it. I was in a situation where my circumstances were we can provide medical treatment and make sure, you know, this child grows up. So there is a parallel there. And speaking of somebody who was in that circumstance, anybody advocating for this can just jump off a goddamn cliff right now. The idea of the idea of assisted suicide, like if someone is terminally ill, if someone has a condition that is going to utterly destroy their quality of life. If someone, and there are no treatment options,

and there is no, you're going to lose everything, including your dignity, any kind of circumstances like that. In for myself as a Catholic, I would not, I would not morally be able to choose to, to end my life. Because of my religious beliefs, but I am not going to condemn anyone who winds up in that situation and says, third party making the choice for somebody else that well, your life is not going to be worth living. So we're not going to keep you alive. Like, and again, he convinced the family that this was better. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, talking, talking parents into letting their child die.

Yeah. Now, again, I would, I would say that there are times where such a discussion needs to be had. Mm. And such a case may well need to be met, made. But the reasons behind why he did it are very shit. Yeah. In circumstances like, okay, and again, speaking as a Catholic. Sure. In circumstances of, we know that your child's gonna have Down syndrome.

We know that your child's going to have Down syndrome. We know that your child is going to have, you know, we've done genetic testing, and I don't know if this is something I've been genetically tested for, but, you know, we've determined that like if if the tests come about, and, you know, we've determined that your child is going to be autistic, your child is going to be congenitally deaf, your child is going to be congenitally blind. Like those... There are tests to determine whether or not a child will have Down syndrome. Yes. Yes.

That? That? That a new cool measurement. Yeah. That does exist. Yep. Here's the deal. If your pregnancy, your child will not be viable. Your child has, you know, is forming without a brain.

And if your child is born, if your child does survive, they are not going to have a brain, they are only going to live hours and they're, and they're gonna be in pain the whole time. In that circumstance, that is the point at which the conversation needs to be had about are you going to terminate this pregnancy, right? And as a practicing Catholic, I am not going to say that's a sinful act. Right. My own judgment based on my understanding of doctrine is, in that circumstance, ultimately,

it's all between you and God. And whatever bishops might say, that's a decision that you've got to make after a reflection with your own conscience and prayer and whatever, or all else. But if you make that decision based on, well, your kid is gonna have this treatable issue, or that's fucking murder. And making the argument to parents that,

well, your child is, you know, the idea that somebody's going to be a drain on society. So, you know, it's better to just not let them survive is fucking monstrous. Yeah. It's one thing if your family has come to a decision that they literally just cannot support life like that. That is a deeply awful and personal choice to have to make. It's another when a doctor makes the argument from, you know, society's going to have to pay for this child.

It's like, fuck you. Like you just, yeah. So heistle didn't got tried for this by the way really yeah despite the fact that Helen Keller supported him he still goes to trial the jury acquits him and for letting John Bolinger die and he probably would have gone on doing this for longer and suffered no consequences. But you know, one thing that's been true about surgeons since the beginning of surgeons apparently is hubris. And the inability to let go of the idea that they're the smartest one in the room. So, Heiselden sits down and writes a screenplay

with a muck raker and a political advisor to FDR while he was governor of New York, named Jack Late, LAIT. And it's the screenplay to what I call Blackstork, right? Yeah. Okay, I corrected it to Black Swan. It's not Black Swan. But in 1971, our 1917 black story comes out. Now, after this, the Chicago Medical Board looks at like,

are you fucking serious? And they tossed him out. So, okay. All right. Would have been allowed to continue practicing medicine had it not been for him insisting on making this movie. The movie essentially was a dramatization of what had happened in the hospital under his direction. Incidentally, John Bollinger was only the first. Heizlden is connected to three other similar deaths in a two year span. So between John Bollinger and when the movie came out, the black story was so groundbreakingly upsetting

that there were separate showing times for men and women. The movie played in theaters all the way to 1942. What? Which means that it was playing four years after the exploitation film, Sex Madness came out in 38. Sex Madness was the companion piece to revert madness. Oh, really? I have sex madness. Yeah? I do. It's basically because she fucked around before marriage.

She got syphilis. She didn't tell her husband and they had a baby that was so malformed by syphilis and she didn't tell her husband and they had a baby that was so malformed by syphilis that it had to be essentially put down and her shame carried through that and you see the price of pleasure fucking with somebody and so that movie came out in 1938 which means there's a four-year overlap where you could go see sex madness, and you could also go see the black stork. Or are you fit to be a mother? Wow. I wish to hell I was kidding. She even had Christmas. Also in movies in 1934, tomorrow's children came out,

and essentially it's a mirror to what Doris buck had gone through. As the sister of someone deemed feeble-minded, our main female lead, played by, or not played by the character's name is Alice Mason, she must be sterilized to end the genetic line of her whole family, because her whole family is made up of alcoholic criminals and the feeble-minded. Her parents undergo the forced sterilization because it's the only way that they can continue receiving their welfare checks. See the poor. The court has decided that Alice must also be sterilized despite being the only quote normal person in the family. They find out at the end that she was actually just adopted and she barely just in time to stop her from being sterilized by the family. They find out at the end that she was actually just adopted and she'd barely just in time to stop her

from being sterilized by the doctors. This movie actually quoted justice all of her when do homes, three generations of imbosoles is enough. It made its way into a movie. So. Because of course it did. I'm not, you know, I'm gonna say this and I know I'm wrong. Sure.

I'm gonna say this again. I don't think I can be shocked anymore in this episode about like where stuff gets quoted. What's being humorous. Why anybody has said, yeah, yeah, no, I don't think I don't think I'm capable of it any Because holy shit, okay challenge accepted In 1931 Okay, the Illinois Homeopathic Medicine Association

Number one existed Let's get a say a rigorous scientific organization right there. Very much like, oh boy, do we have the oil that you could squeeze from a snake? They advocated for the right to forcibly sterilize. Again, not the right for people to go and choose sterilization, not even a campaign telling people, you know, it would be better for your children. And this is if they weren't born. Okay, wait, wait, wait, forceable. The, the, the homeopathic, the homeopaths association. Yes. Is calling for force like sterilization, force for for, okay, for legislation regarding forced sterilization.

Yes. Okay. Yes. Because for a moment, legitimate doctors are going that way. The woo doctors had better. The woo, I mean, yeah. Yeah.

You got to stay relevant, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. Not all of these people suck. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh my God. But meanwhile, at the state fair,

that look is so precious. No, you don't. I do. No, you got dipped, don't. Oh, I told you. So state fair, since 1908, had featured a display all over the country promoting perfecting babies. I mean, right 4-H FFA. Yeah. Starting in Louisiana in 1908 the better baby contests ended up in full swing by the

1930s. Better, better baby. Better baby contest like like these are baby beauty contest. I wish it's more like a Westminster dog stuff for babies. It's it is, I mean, oh, take a listen. Various doctors, various eugenicists and various health board members and hospital officials came to judge and add credence to these contests. Ostensibly, these were meant to educate people on proper baby care in the first years of life. Oh, yeah, no bullshit. That's that I mean, I'm sure they did that, but that's that's not the rationale. That's not or that's the rationale. That's that's not the real motivation. Yeah, and

Or that's the rationale, that's not the real motivation. Yeah. And I agree that that is a good public good to have. Yes. Realistically, though, what it meant was that black families were often barred from participating in these better baby competitions. And middle-class white babies were the ones that set the norms. And the standard against of which all babies would be judged. Of course.

Because of course the qualifications in these contests were complete medical histories of the babies. So, you know, if you had too much colloc and too early, sorry, you disqualified, right? Development tests, competency tests, all administered by experts. And the scoring was deficiency based. Judges would remove points for defects. So your baby starts at 100 and then we just go down the list. Yes, speaking of punitive systems. So, so, okay.

This is actually the same approach as livestock, standardization, science, database judgments. This is positive eugenics being used to take points away. Okay. Now in addition to state fair baby competitions, there were also fitter family competitions starting in 1920. Fitter family? Yeah. Okay. It was presumably starting from 100 points. Yeah. As actually points. Okay. And it's the same thing as the better babies, it's aimed at entire families, though, right? So this is more behaviorally based. Yeah. They had standards for selfishness, cruelty, suspicion, bad temperedness, high strungness, generosity, quality of bonding. And originally, this was sponsored by the Red Cross.

and originally this was sponsored by the Red Cross. Because of course it was. Of course it was because I mean, come on. By 1925 the Eugenics Record Office was printing standardized forms for all the judges of all these competitions. So just remember that. You go to the state fair of your state or a county fair that in addition to who makes the best coplar, who has the cutest rabbits, who has the prettiest dogs, who has the nicest sheep and, you know,

the cows and the, you know, geese better scurry when I take you out to a slurk. So all of that also babies. And signing up for a contest to have your family publicly judged. Wow, and that's introducing a whole level of status bullshit into it too. Like, yeah, I don't... Wow, there's so many levels on which all of us is fucked up.

Wow, okay. Yeah. Okay. So back to California, California's eugenicists were amongst the wealthiest and most scientifically based largely because a lot of them were agricultureists and they saw humans and plants is the same in many more ways than society needs. like Luther Burbank, who was an expert in breeding fruit. He actually bred more than 800 strains of fruits, vegetables, cacti, grains, and grasses. Burbank was especially known for his plums. That's not a metaphor, because it turns out he didn't actually have his own children. He adopted his second wife's daughter upon marrying her, upon marrying a second wife, not the daughter. He published in essay in 1907 about child rearing. Again, not having had any of his own,

but again, he did also adopt a child. So, you know, if you adopt a kid, you get to, you get to weigh on him being a parent. Yeah. Burbank also cared a lot about education and community. He gave lots of money to local schools, and he was known to be a modest, soft spoken and generous man. Okay. Now, the essay that he wrote in 1907 was called the Training of the Human Plant. The Training of the Human Plant. Yes. Okay. In this essay, Luther Burbank advocated for cultural homogeneity and replacement of less dominant cultures. Okay. Which again, as a guy breeding cash crop fruits. Yeah. Yeah.

He also was big on selective breeding. And he left open for euthanasia. Um, and just in case I'm being too subtle, here's what Luther Burbank himself said, quote, we are more cross than any other nation in the history of the world. And here we meet the same results that are always seen in a much crossed race of plants, all the worst as well as all the best qualities of each are brought out in their fullest intensities. When all the necessary crossing has been done, then comes elimination, the work of refining until we shall get an ultimate product that should be the finest race ever.

That is that is indescribately creepy. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Do you imagine naming a high school after that guy? Oh my god. Yeah. What the fuck? Oh crap. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly how to how to how to verbally express my my emotional response to that. Like just to brief, instant is like, all right, this guy gets it crossbreeding as it's getting a lot of genetic diversity. Oh, wait, you want just to be one product. Right.

Okay. When you've done all the crossbreeding, then you start the comp at the like, it feels like then you start to pit fighting. And the forced that's when that's when that's when the hunger games begin like and then we reach the champions. Yeah, but what the hell? Yeah, and and well, okay, the thought the thought I'm having the best as a, as a reflection later. I know I want to, I want to get to it yet, but, yeah. Oh my God. Okay. Yeah. So one of the people who received a lot of funding and aid from California rich people

was Harry H. Lochland. I mentioned him before. Yes, you have. Uh, you may remember him from being the first director of the Eugenics Records Office. I do remember him from that. Yes. Or from his testimony in front of Congress about why we shouldn't let the sneaky non-white whites into the country as much. Right. Yeah, that too.

Anyway, Lochland was one of the main influences on Davenport and vice versa, right? So they just jerked each other off, but not to completion because you don't want to split it. Because you don't want to become feeble minded, right? So edge bros. Yeah. And it was the two of them. By the way, that's a legend.

I have no proof that they ever touch each other's penises. Well, you know, a lot of people say, right, right. Some have some have said, yeah. But so is the two of them who work together at the Unigenix Records Office to advise Congress on the immigration act of 1924 to write about that last time. Yeah. Locklin also started studying senators genetic heritage through the Eugenics Records Association in 1927 to determine their fitness for Congress. Okay, okay, oddly enough, oddly enough, that's what proved me wrong. Oh, that's what that's what got it. Oh, not the baby competitions that stay fair. I guess that's the same vein vein, right? Come on, white people are gonna white people. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's only matter of time, yeah. Yeah, okay. But wow, digging, digging. So now, now, the next logical thing that, that follows was did he, did he use the, okay, hold there are two ways this could go. Sure. Did he then use this information to suck up to

Congress persons. Let's be honest Congress men, that's talking about when we're talking about. Yeah, I don't think you went after Dan Rankin. She'd already lost her chance at office by this point. Yeah. I'm back until 1940. Yeah.

Or did he use this as blackmail material? Well, it seems like he was trying to leverage them because there were some who refused and were like, what the fuck is wrong with you kind of vibe? And then he then publicly wrote to their hometown newspapers to seek the information out. Oh, shit. I mean, you got to give him credit for Hutzba. Like speaking of Hutzba, during that war two, Lachlan would then tighten restrictive immigration regulations.

So as to bar Jews seeking asylum from Europe. Okay, I'm sorry, back that up. Sure. Say that again. Lachlan, advocating tightening restrictive immigration regulations. So as to bar Jews seeking asylum during World War Two. Okay. All right. Yeah, just

Just making sure that's what I heard. Okay. And he had enough contact with Germany that he knew exactly what that would mean. He knew he fucking knew. He knew. He fucking knew. This wasn't like, oh, I mean, what happens to them? Is there a problem? I haven't looked into that. No, he hung out in Germany. He visited, some of this is due to rich Californians who funded him and some of its due to the college and university system that was set up in California. Much of it was due to the reactive elements in California when faced with Chinese and Japanese immigration. But back to Gosney and Popeino. In 1929, they co-authored sterilization for human betterment, a summary of results of 6,000 operations in California in 1909 to 1929. It told you about that. Um, basically, the gist was it's not bad for the people that it's used on.

It's good for the state. It's cost effective and it's legally sound. The very idea that it's cost effective is being applied to people, literally people's lives. Yeah. Just, which is funny because when we ask that it's cost effective to give people housing, nobody wants to do that. Right.

Yeah, okay. Now, philanthropist, which is a California term for eugenicist, Charles M. Gatie, or Goeth, if you prefer, he was very excited about how well Gausny's and Pope Noes book was doing amongst the elite and the policymakers in Germany. Charles M. Gathe.

Uh, again, I'm specifically picking on Northern Californians often Sacramento Basets, uh, because there's a lot of them in the capital city of the most successful Unigenesis state in the country. Yeah. And because there's a bunch of schools named after these assholes. So Charles M. Gathe himself was a booster of schools named after these assholes. So Charles M. Gati himself was a booster of the great outdoors and nature. He loved the redwoods. He was a booster of the Audubon society and the Sierra Club. He was honored by the National Park Service for his work in conservationism.

He was a really cool guy. They made him the honorary chief naturalist. They invented that term for him. He was also anti-immigrant and had studied at the elbow of Madison grant. The author of the poorly selling and highly influential book, the passing of the great race that claimed that Nordic peoples were the pinnacle of human evolution. You may remember him from the Henry Ford Square dancing episodes. I do. Nordic in the 1920s and 30s changes to what word? Oh, I changed the white. Aryan. Aryl.

Right. Right. You're too subtle. I was not. I was not. I was not. Yeah. Yeah. Gady wrote a lot of pamphlets, by the way, calling for stricter immigration regulations on the Mexican immigrants, claiming that certain ethnic groups were more susceptible to carrying and spreading disease, claiming that feeble mindedness was not only hereditary, but ethnic and claiming that some races were superior to others and that forced sterilization would be needed to protect society from unfit races and so on. would be needed to protect society from unfit races and so on. He was a true believer in this because he spent over a million of his own dollars

to distribute these writings and he spent even more to lobby the California state government to put Eugenics programs in place specifically to forcibly sterilize poor women from 1909 to the 1960s. And he also spent plenty of money on the federal end of it too. Oh my God. All right. Charles M. Gady also refused to sell real estate to Mexican or Asian people because he claimed that there was a racial hierarchy in which Mexicans were as low as black people and that southern Europeans were weakening the white race. He also praised Germany's program of forced sterilization because that would help purify the Aryan race.

Because of course he did. Yeah. Now, do you know the connection between Charles M. Gady and Rosa Parks middle school in Sacramento? No. Rosa Parks initially named for him. Hmm. Rosa Parks. Was it initially named for him? Yes. Of course it was. Yeah. Of course it was. Until 2007, Charles M. Gady had a K8 school named after him in Sacramento, 2007. That's I think the year that the iPhone came out.

You're not wrong. 40.3% of the students at the former Charles M. Gady School are of Latine heritage. 23.5% are of Asian heritage. 19.1% are of black heritage. 5.4% report being of multiple heritages. Only 3.4% of the population of the school named after Charles M. Gady are of white heritage. In 2007 Sacramento City Unified School District renamed the school to Rosa Parks.

Now I think that is very appropriate. I think it was kind of a lazy choice, but I mean that woman deserves to have named things named after her. So I'm not going to criticize that, but you could have could have educated us on other cool black women from history. Fucking Ida B Wells, can you name would have been great. But okay, cool. Rosa Parks, right? There's part of me, though, that did love the idea of Gady screaming up at his from health for daring to let that many non-white kids go to school named after him. Yeah, now since I don't have an afterlife that I believe in, I'm glad they renamed the school. If I did have one, I would have loved it.

The following year the city followed the districts lead renamed one of the city's busiest parks right off the American River to River Bend Park. Okay Yeah right off the American River to River Bend Park. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Now, do you know the connection between Charles M. Gady and Sacramento State University? No. In 1947, Gady founded my alma mater, California State University Sacramento as the 11th State University in California.

I mean, no. State University Sacramento as the 11th State University in California. He gave it an enormous endowment and was chairman of the University's Advisory Board. He had an Arborative named after him in 1961 and in 1965 for his 90th birthday, Jerry Brown, governor of California at the time, and LBJ, both wrote letters of praise to him that were presented to Gady at his birthday at CSUS. Oh my God. These letters were actually solicited by his friends. Like this wasn't these two guys really shit. No, it was solicited, but they did it. He changed his will to make CSUS his primary beneficiary and he donated over $600,000 to the college, along with his home, his personal library, and all of his eugen, that's later in life, right? Right.

So I just named a couple things. Now, let's go back to Gady in 1934, because it's fun. Uh, he goes to Germany. For sure. Is it fun? But yeah, okay. He goes to Germany to examine their sterilization efforts firsthand. And he writes a letter to Gossney stating, quote, you will be interested

to know that your work has played a powerful part in shaping the opinion. Remember, your work being that book that they wrote in 2029. You will be interested to know that your work has played a powerful part in shaping the opinions of groups of a group of intellectuals who are behind Hitler in this epic making program. Everywhere I sense that their opinions have been tremendously stimulated by American thought and particularly by the work of the Human Betterment Foundation. I want you, my dear friend, to carry this thought with you for the rest of your life. I'm just gonna break in here. So do I.

Back to now, back to the book. That you have really jolted into action a great government of 60 million people. So, Gosney and Popano, the guy who was working for the army on VD in 1918, their book was so influential that it was closely followed by the new government that had taken over Germany in 1933 to the point where an American health official reported back in 1933 while visiting quote the leaders in the German sterilization movement state repeated or state repeatedly that their legislation was formulated only after careful study of the California experiment. careful study of the California experiment. So Ed, I have a question. Yeah. What was the new government in Germany that he was talking about? That would be the National Socialist Party of the NSDAP. Oh yeah. Okay. So they didn't even win a majority. I mean, I don't see why it's that big a deal. So we exported eugenics to the we didn't start eugenics.

We just polished it up and gave it that pizzazz that then wrote it to ex- Codifiers. Yes. Sent it out into the world again, to the point where the Nazis looked at it and were like, you know, this is a good stuff. Let's speak, we could do something, Vista. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Then they did. Oh, damn it.

Yeah. And you could bind that by the way, with our extermination of indigenous peoples here in the 1800s was also another model and then also and reformed like yeah no yeah no yeah people are shocked that the Nazi you know that you get neo-nazis here in in America and it's like no no really you can't you need to be very close you really yeah there's there's there's a level of naivete involved in that that she got to be like I Don't yeah, you know, I'm gonna say history. I'm gonna stop it here because we all know what happened in World War two

And we all know the effect and impact of this California experiment and the the holy god damn shit So we all know that I'll pick it up in the next episode promised World War II because as it turns out, Eugenics gets a bit tarnished by really a little don't worry. They remark at it. It's fine. It's okay. We'll keep going strong. It's just going to be about different things. Yeah, okay. But what have you gleaned? Um, there is a deep-seated anti-democratic

element to this, Especially in liberal California. Which is, yeah. There is so much of this that ties into essentialist ideas and just this inherent fear of democracy, of equality under the law, of genuine equality under the law. I would go far enough to say disdain. Yeah. Genuine disdain.

Genuine disdain that like, well, you know, it's as if, it's as if the people doing this are all, you know, rah rah sispoon ba about the idea of representative democracy. And they think they think the Republic they want is the Roman Republic, but what they're actually trying to get and what they're actually idealizing is Sparta. Did I start with, I mean, I did start with the fellow from England talking specifically about Sparta, right? Yeah, well, yeah. Or no, there's the German guy. Yeah.

That was a hike. Yeah, hike. He talks about Sparta, but I'm talkingizing the concept of the Republic. And the model that keeps getting pointed to and the one that was consciously emulated by the founders was the Roman Republic, right? That's where the form of our government and the branches of government that were put together, that's the inspiration, that's the model, because-

It was intensely aristocratic. Well, yeah, because fully half of the founders or more were Virginians, and, because yeah fully half of the founders or more were Virginians and you know And I mean we can we can get into the original sin. I was gonna say this is a bug. This is a feature Yeah, yeah, like oh my god look what happened generations later. It's like yeah Yeah, but but the thing is like I I kind of want to go back to Jefferson Mm-hmm and look him in the eye and go you you are just masturbating all over all of your writings about the Roman Republic and citizens and the Dada Dada

And the thing is you're not you're not actually creating a republic like the Roman Republic You're creating a republic literally like Sparta. And you don't want to admit that. But what you're doing is going to lead to all of this hideous shit later on. Don't think he would have minded. Well, yeah, Jefferson. Jefferson wouldn't have minded because Jefferson was an asshole. Yes, yes, he was

he was an evil man who wrote really well about high-folleting ideals. But, you know, the and yeah, it's just the level of fragility and fear. Because this is white Anglo-Saxon Protestant society in the United States being terrified, not only of non-European people, particularly of European people. But particularly of Europeans who are not the right kind of Europeans because, you know, non-white whites. Yeah. Yeah. And like, and then the,

when you use that phrase, like that, that whole idea of non-white whites is what gets us Columbus Day, right? Because it was a ploy for Italian Americans to become white, right? It was also to like put off for Italian Americans to become white, right? It was also to like put off a strike, if I recall, and to say, oh, we're really sorry for that lynching. Well, I mean, you things to play there, but yes, but, but the, the, the, but ultimately, yeah, emotion, you two, yeah, they're promoted to whiteness by that. Yeah, yeah, they're their elevation to, you know, official whiteness,

you know, happened there, was tied up in that. And like, and let's talk about Columbus for a minute, like, you know, the man, the Spanish authorities of the time considered him a sadist and an incompetent. Yeah, like like, okay, Spanish. If those who brought you the interrelation, yeah, if literally the local representatives of the Oh, dial it back. Holy shit, man. And yeah, so there are so many things that are tied up in this and all of them are ugly. Yeah.

But what we keep coming back to is, as I said, a minute ago, white people are gonna white. And it is, you know, like, As I said, a minute ago white people are going to white. And it is, you know, like so much of our energy in this country, like of the dominant culture in this country, got spent for so long trying to protect something that really doesn't exist. If that makes sense and it's yeah like I'm gonna need it to purge. It's a good thing that we we record this at the time of day we do because you know I need a lie down I'm going to sleep oh my god crap yeah I don't know that's, there's, I got a whole lot

going on there. But the anti-democracy part of this, the fear of, well, you know, we can't actually let everybody vote. Right. You know, it's just. Can't let everybody breed because that will. Yeah, because then voting, you know, demographics, which then ties right back into the tea party. There's going to say everything that's coming since, you know, yeah, just, oh my God. Well, got anything you want to recommend to us for reading? Yes, I do, actually.

And, and it is kind of homework for what I'm going to be talking about next. But also whether or not you are a person of faith, I think it is a meaningful work that can give a reader some things to think about. It is orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton. It is a work of apologetics. It is Christian apologetics, but it's G.K. Chesterton writing it who is, he has a puckish sense of humor and it is not, it is not, you know, I'm trying to figure out how to phrase it, I'm like, it's not harsh and it's not didactic. And he is approaching ideas of orthodoxy and ideas of faith he is approaching ideas of orthodoxy and ideas of faith

in a way that lends itself to not just looking at Christian apologetics, but looking at the way of the world, or looking at the world with a new kind of lens. He talks about the the power and the importance of make believe, which is which is a choice to believe in something. It's a sacred thing in my house. Yeah, and so it's just it's a wonderful book and I've always found it like, like tonight, after we get done recording, I'm gonna go look for my copy of it. Because I've always found it healing.

Sure. And a bit of a balm. Also, kind of related to that, GK Chesterton also wrote the Father Brown Mysteries series, which are a lot of fun. The main character is a Catholic priest, and he notably, they're all short stories, so you can read two or three of them and walk away. But he sends up Sherlock Holmes, and he does, he wasn't in the right period to parody Perky-Wool-Pu-A-R-O or Miss Marple.

But he, yeah, it's a lovely entertaining kind of lighthearted as a detective series can be series of stories. And so yes, it would be a very good mental balm, kind of literary equivalent of looking at kittens after what we've been talking about here. So, so GK Chester 10, those are my recommendations orthodoxy and the father brown mysteries. How about you? Believe it or not, I've got something similar Randall Balmer, Redeemer, the life of Jimmy Carter. Oh, hey, there we go. Halleek cleanser. So, very much. Yeah, don't worry. He wrote another book actually called Bad Faith as well. That is out the lie that Evangelicals came out after Roe v Wade, it turns out no.

They came out after school segregation was ending. Yeah, but read Redeemer. And yes, it's right now. Yeah, you need it. So okay. But yeah, cool. Do you want to be found? At the moment, I do not.

Totally. I will remain cloaked until such time as I can bring photon torpedoes to bear and then y'all are screwed. But we collectively, of course, can be found on the Apple podcast app and on a stitcher. Spotify. Spotify. Yeah. Okay. Spotify. Okay. Spotify and stitcher. Wherever you have found us, since you are listening to us, you have to have found us somehow. Wherever you have found us, please take the time to subscribe and give us the five stars that you know Damien has earned through the

Mentally emotional sacrifices made to do this particular set of research in particular Um, I just said particular set of research in particular anyway. Um, I was directing a very strong beer But also we can be found at woeblewobahwoobah.geekhistorytime.com. And for as long as the site still exists, we are on Twitter as Geek History Time, or Geek History of Time. And can you be found, sir? Yeah, I've quit Twitter, actually, so we should probably talk about bringing it over to Threads, because you can find me right now at Da Harmony on Th on threads. That would be the best place to find me. And otherwise, yeah, go back and listen to some of our prior episodes. I would say if you want more of me. So cool.

Well, or a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blaylock. And until next time, keep rolling 20s. I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blaylock, and until next time, keep rolling 20s.