A Geek History of Time - Episode 239 - Interview With Keith Lowell Jensen Author of What I Was Arrested For

Episode Date: November 25, 2023

Okay, so there's there there are two possibilities going on here. One, you're you're bringing up a term that I have never earned before. The the other possibility is that this is a term I've heard before, but it involves a language that uses pronunciation that's different from Latin it, and so you have no idea how to say it properly. An intensely 80s post-apocalyptic schlock film. Oh, and schlong film. You know, it's been over 20 years, but spoilers. Oh, okay, so the resident Catholic thinking about that. We're going for low-earth orbit. There is no rational hearing. Leave it on me after and you know I will. They mean it is two o'clock in the fucking morning. I am. I don't think you can get very much more

homosexual panic than that. No, which I don't know if that's better. I mean you guys are Catholics, you tell me. I'm just kind of excited that like you and producer George Will have something to talk about that basically just means that I can show up and get fed 1.0-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1. This is a history of time. We're reconnecting to the real world. My name is Ed Blalock, I'm a world history and English teacher here in Northern California. And this podcast has ruined me for being able to watch anything without immediately thinking about the sociopolitical ramifications of what's going on on the screen. My son is now five years old and he is a very big fan of Disney's cartoon series The Lion Guard, which if for anybody not familiar with it is kind of a follow-on to The Lion King and the direct DVD director video sequels. To that and the main character Coyon, who is the son, the younger sibling of the two children of Simba, who in the TV

series is voiced by Rob Lowe. I find just kind of interesting. It's a little weird, but anyway, my son is a huge big fan of this show, And I can't watch it with him without immediately thinking about the political ramifications of like, so what you're saying here is this is a monarchy. And he's a member of the Praetorian Guard of this monarchy, which by the way is full of child soldiers. They're their in Africa. Yeah, like yeah. Um, and yeah, I didn't even want to go down that particular road. But yeah, and and every episode is about some kind of justification for why the hyenas who exist outside of the society literally marginalized literally marginalized have to be have to be kept under control because they don't follow the dominant religion of the Pride Lands, which is belief in and adherence to the practices of the circle of life. You know, I think it's interesting that we never actually see the lions actually exacting their

taxation on the people they rule over the animals. They rule over. in the animals all agree with the tenants of the circle of life, which involved them being killed and eaten by their own ruling class. And one of the first, like, first couple episodes, the sister is hunting a gazelle, like they should say we're hunting the members of our kingdom. Yeah, yeah, our subject. they should have say we're hunting. Yeah. Members of our kingdom. Yeah. Yeah. Our subject. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. And and like, you know, before we started this project, I could have sat down with my son. I could have watched this and not had these thoughts intrude. And now I can't do that anymore. My wife has to listen to me at dinner going like, no, seriously, it's like fucking royalist propaganda. What the hell? What the hell, man? So yeah. That's that's what I've had going on in the last, I don't know, few days. How about you? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I am a US history teacher up here in Northern California.

I've kind of done the same as far as cartoons that my son watches my son still loves a lot of cartoons takes after his dad. And for instance, he does watch Lion Guard and I brought up similar things I tend to stay to the the interpersonal stuff with them like, oh, wow, he really didn't respect her now. Just to kind of drive those ideas home with like that shitty. And we will watch, you know, you know how he writes a lot of fanfic now. Yeah, yeah. So we'll watch Thomas and friends or something like that. And I always tell him about how much, you know, I was asked, I'm like, wait, isn't that Sir Topham hat? And he's like, yeah, yeah. Didn't he lock someone up for trying to start a union?

He's like, really nice. So are we ever gonna see them run him over until his legs fall off? Like, when is this gonna, and I just start, you got in the tattoo, yeah. You get the union thugs across my belly, in old script.

But like, I keep pushing that like, the trains need to take over on soda and they they absolutely need to to destroy top of hat and main him horribly. And make him make him an example. Exactly. The bourgeoisie. Yeah, you tell birdie to go tell everyone else, you know. Nice. Yeah, carry his head on birdies. Um, and William gets a big kick out of that, uh, quite quite a fair amount. Um, don't even get me started on Paw Patrol and the cop again to that. That is, oh man. So here's, here's my theory. Uh, Paw Patrol is a Marvel

universe, a you where Tony Stark gets orphaned. Uh, as and goes into biological sciences as much as engineering. Okay, and those are all uplifted dogs that he's experimenting with. Yeah, by the way, while we're having this conversation, I know Generally, it's it's good advice to steer away clear of Reddit, but there's a really entertaining subreddit called Daniel Tiger conspiracy That's that's all about these kind of head cannons and this kind of this kind of analysis and and you know epileptic tree waving kind of kind of stuff. So yeah So what's going on with me is I have a question for you and our guest by the way everybody welcome back Mr. Keith Lowell Jensen

I'm wondering if I was just gonna do the fly on the wall for this one Most of it, but you know my question here is is getting involved both you do either of you own a pair of slippers that you wear fairly regularly. Not anymore. Okay. Keith, how about you? Not that I wear regularly. I love the idea of slippers, but I've never been that comfortable.

So I have a pair of slippers that I use around the house because sometimes I get kind of deep cracks in the back of my heel almost up to the bone. My son has taken to hiding them. A lot like every night that he's here because you know my kids have split custody. So yeah, go to their moms. So, very often, he will hide my slippers before we leave for school on the day that they transfer back over to their moms. And I'll spend two days looking for the goddamn things. This week, I found my slippers.

One of them was in his sink. And the other one was in my sink that I never use. And so, I could have really used my slippers for like the first day. And so I just texted him. I'm like, I need my slippers. Where are they? To which he did not respond because he doesn't really wear his watch or anything that is mom. So I'm just kind of stuck slipperless until he comes home. I went to put them to bed before this recording and he I see him looking down the stairs at me and he starts laughing and I'm like, what? He's like, oh, nothing. Just just thinking of something. And I look at right next

to my feet on the stairs are my slippers. And I'm like, get going, move it, you know, get up to bed. So I made sure I put on my slippers so that he could not hide them. When I was putting him, I was putting him to bed. He took my shirt off me like we're going to have a hockey fight instead. Like what? Okay. So have children they said it will be fun. They said yeah. So anyway, whenever said that to me, people encouraged you guys to be pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They did. Yeah. I had one person wish that my children were as I was as a child. And wish that upon me as though it were a curse. Um, which I said, thanks, mom.

Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say that that that sounds like a family trauma thing. There. Yeah. I have two older brothers and they had so many children. I never got the like parents leaning on me for grandkids thing. Oh, they probably couldn't afford Christmas presents. So they were like, yeah, I think that my dad like lived voyeuristically through me.

He was like, yeah, go be in the bay. Go comedy. This is the party. That's okay. The other one. You go do some fun stuff. Nice. So tonight we're, we were going to talk to you about you.

You've written another book. But also, you are a, with the exception of some cities, fairly, fairly successful comedian. And so with the exception of some cities, well, I just heard that you are banned in some cities. So I I'm not banned in any cities. Oh, okay. There is a city whose comedy scene for the most part doesn't like me Like it's so interesting to be collectively And I get splashed from that by the way get I get splash damage from that because I don't feud with them

I ignore them and they make much to keep fighting with me for years without me participating, which is the most flattering thing in the world Unless you're me in which case I'm like, why am I getting secondary damage from a few that I'm not a part of Because I'm friends with a person. And then like all sorts of things get associated to me. Like attitudes get associated. I've literally been threatened by a person. It's like, I wish you would say that to my face. I would punch you so hard. And I'm like, then why would I say it to your face?

Really? Like, it's not even anything, I think. Like, what the fuck? Right. I remember arguing with the guy on the other side of an iron fence and he said you want to come over the fence and say that I'm saying no. So I'm better here where you can't reach me. Right.

I'm over here and saying this because I'm smarter than you are. I think really the reason I'm being so mouthy. There's no right. Did he take offense? Hey, we got through the last one with like the last podcast with I think a single pun. Oh, no, you just didn't notice the other ones. Yeah, they're there. They were there. You take a few jokes and no one gets it. Do cheekbone the forest at all. Yeah, hit a mine. Yeah. So it's like in Cambodia in the 1980s. There's a mine field. Oh, man, we'll take that. We'll acknowledge and that only feeds it. Right.

I'm not going to explain things after. That's that to me makes the joke even funnier is when I have to explain it to an audience. Yeah. So anyway, you're more successful than I am as a comedian. And I think we should talk about that. Funny because. Which I was never on. And I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to you.

I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it to an audience. So anyway, you're more successful than I am as a comedian. And I think we show funny because which I was never on. And we know no, I mean, even before that, we did a sketch comedy show. Although, we would perform a skit, come out and explain it to the audience. I like the podcast. I was referencing one of the reasons I was never on this podcast Ed was because Keith kept telling me, you don't have any short jokes.

Like, we would play a short clip. Right. And it wasn't you didn't have the jokes that you didn't have any short enough jokes recorded. Right. In front of an audience. Right. that you didn't have the jokes, it's that you didn't have any short enough jokes recorded in front of an audience. Right. Because we've been really close and hopefully it was a clip that represented you well.

So you wanted to be in front of a good audience. And then we would talk about it. We would take it apart. And we could real, you know, inside baseball on what made it funny, what made it work. Yeah. How it developed. I actually thought it was a great idea for a podcast

and hoped it would have been fabulously successful, but it never quite grew legs. Let's see. It's a shame. Well, and I don't know what your expectations were for success. For mine, it's that we just keep going, regardless of whether or not we have 10 or 12 listeners. I Was Yeah, whether we have legs or not we just keep crawling Like slugs Wading how the hell you say for me? Who? Wading him

Hannah Wading him Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just call our Hannah Jensen. There you go. Yeah.

Hannah Lowell Jensen. There you go. So Keith, what do you want to start with? Comedy or, or this book that you wrote, which is entirely serious because it's got nothing but mug shots. Well, we can combine them because my latest special happens to be called what I was arrested for. Also nice. And to simultaneously was really interesting. There's a part where I'm in a protest and a cop beats the shit out of me and in the stage version I mentioned that the cop beat me up really just he beat me up. That's and then I got real

dark didn't it? Then I move on. Because you can't graphically describe a cop beating the crap out of you in a standup show. I mean, you probably can. Someone prior could probably pull it off, but I didn't feel like you want the gory details hit the book. Okay. Look, I really talk about what it was like to have a cop with his hands around you throughout. Look you in the eye and say, I'm going to kill you. And you believe him. Yeah. So it was so well, it can horrible.

And so, and then they stationed that cop, this is gonna sound like conspiracy theory, crazy mess, but I swear, I lived on 24th and Capitol and I would walk to work. I worked in the coffee shop that was inside the co-op at the time. And I'd walk to work every day up 24th Street and two blocks up from my house where there had never been a cop before

that cop was there on his CHP motorcycle every morning as I walked past him and he would say, good morning to me. I'm like, this is intimidation. I don't know what is. Wow. Yeah. What the fuck? Well, we were considering suing and I had a lawyer that was working with me and the enemy, her bow-n'o, and yeah.

So, I mean, I'm just going to throw the question out. Do we know that he was assigned to be there? And it wasn't just that he was deciding to hang out like... No, I can no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Is higher ups may have had no idea where he was, but with things that we've seen recently, it also wouldn't be, wouldn't surprise me at all if they didn't know where he was. It was like, you know, I'm gonna go put some fear into that kid and they were like, you do it. Yeah. Yeah. Because we've seen enough or hold the Department's are just awful

Yeah, I mean there's an anti-gang task force that did a report on LA County police officers who are in police Yeah, with tattoos regalia and everything with tattoos, regalia and everything. Yeah, exactly. LAPD or LA sheriff. I mean, not that it was the whole metro area you had a bunch, but there were several, the sheriffs were very well represented by this. But there were also a lot of

iced tea told us this iced tea told us this on his album, OG way back in the 80s. Yeah, then they were the biggest gang out there. Yeah, well, when you look at the history of policing in the United States, it becomes pretty clear that, yeah. So, what were you arrested for? A bunch of things. So, but I start both the book and the stage show with telling you about a few times I wasn't arrested because I don't want anybody out. This to be inclusive, so a little bit of never been arrested can find something for them in here too. I have only been detained. I've never been arrested. So I was not arrested for stealing marshmallows in a bell air. Okay. I got away with that one.

They just called my mom. Okay. And I was I was not arrested for drinking a beer when I was under age at Andy's house where he was freaking out on LSD and getting in a fight with his downstairs neighbor and the cops got called. Okay. And uh, but then I was finally arrested. Uh, the first time I was ever arrested was super consensual. I was protesting a war. And we did a diet. The cops were like, okay, we're going to arrest you if you don't clear out by this time. Uh, so if you don't want to be arrested, get up. And then when that time came, they would come up to each of us individually and say, we're going to arrest you now. And you could actually go, actually, I'll leave. Like they really did give you a choice. Did it bear amount of people? No. But they are left when they first said we're gonna start a rest at this time, you know, in like 15 minutes or whatever.

A few people were like, oh, I gotta work tomorrow. Okay. Um, a valid thing. I'm sorry, we live in a system where you have to work when you will starve. Yeah. I worked at a place called state net and a woman named Diana Hess or is it pronounced Hessa? It's like the author.

Um, Mount Hessa, like the author. But she was this lovely old hippie. And I make tons of references to old hippies in here. Sorry old hippies. But that's what we thought of mess as young punks. She was part of the original, you know, anti-war movement in the six, not the original, but the one the old school unto us in the 60s. but the old school one to us in the 60s and she told me I will cover for you here, you represent me there. As I cover, I will keep your job safe and make sure that you're taking care of. So, very cool. What a sweetheart. Yeah, I love her. So yeah, and the rest was so different. They didn't fingerprint us, they didn't book us. They did put us all in cells, but I was in a cell with priests and in the next cell, they just separated by men and women into big cells that are inside the like state department. They have like their own little holding cells area, I guess,

for just this sort of thing. So there are others for peace. Oh, wow. Wonderful combination of punks and hippies. So it was just catching release. It was, and the guy that came to let us go reminded me of Patton making the speech in front of the big American flag. Was that George C. Scott?

Yeah, he was. Yeah. He comes out and he stands facing both cells and is in the psyche, you know, with his feet apart and he says, I would not be appropriate for me to express my political beliefs while in this uniform. But I think that I can tell you that I am proud of you as Americans who are willing to stand up for their own beliefs. And just like, all right.

We were all high-fibing him on our way by and stuff. Really not anything I expected from a cop. It was wild. Now, was that for the first Gulf War? Yes. OK. Yeah. You know, a war that my father believed in.

And I remember my dad being one of the coolest people I debated about it, who debated with it, with about it. My words. The coolest person with whom you had a debate about said you were. Yeah, because he was like, I clarified it. Oh, I think we need to do it. But I'm disgusted that we're cheering it on like it's a fucking football game. And he told that to his friends too who were being real raw about it. He's like he realized this is like people dying including people that aren't involved and like this is you may think it's right and I think it's right it does mean it's fun and the difference being my father had been to war. My dad always told me that in looking at politicians as well.

He said the most dangerous ones are the ones that haven't been to war. You know, and bush and all the hawks that surrounded him, they weren't veterans. No. Wait, which war are we talking about? Uh, isn't it funny that bush is getting the same gang. But like the first bush was a war veteran. Yeah. Who is a silk.

You're right. And it's also very reluctant. And. Also pulled out quickly afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. Also bombed the shit out of the highway where there are a lot of people. Yeah.

You know, I would talk it off. Yeah. You could have called it Blitzkrieg. I don't know. Yeah. Less method involved. It's a tactic. So, okay.

So you, you consensually were arrested. Yeah. And then the next time I was arrested was also a protest was a gay rights protest. It was less essential. I sounded like it. Have you guys seen the movie, Sid and Nancy with Gary Oldman? I have not. That this one.

There's a wonderful scene where the cops are busting some party or something and there's chaos and people running everywhere. Sid and ants, they're walking really slow, they're high, and they walk right through it all. Because when you are just moving slow through chaos, you get missed. And so the hippies had taught me during the war protests, the protests a certain way to keep your hands down, keep your feet loaded, the ground walks slowly,

all these things that won't excuse the cops beating you up. Well, I did that in the gay rights protest, but all around me are people that are swinging like batons in this theater. I'm still with Boas. It was a party of a protest, and there I am doing my little peaceful protesting,

and I end up on the wrong side of a line of riot protest and there I am doing my little peaceful protesting and I end up on the wrong side of a line of riot cops or shields. They've got the protesters in front of them and I turn around and I realize that I've walked right through them as they were forming their line and I'm literally behind them now. You've Charlie and I knew it at least. I did. You modern times did you're like oh, I've got this flag you've forgotten this flag right That's that's literally a nightmare Well, I see you've done that as a joke This cop comes rolling down the freeway because we were marching up onto the freeway Which I can also tell you why that that is become such thing

But the cop comes rolling down the off ramp at me and he says, get off of the freeway now. And I say, yes. And I turn and I start walking away from him and he says, run. And I'm like, no, because that's used that as an excuse. And he shoves me. And so then I start running and he tackles me and beats a shit. For running another cop, a female cop came over and pulled him off of me.

So I don't know when he would have stopped and I was covered in so so he was. Sorry, go ahead. I desperately want those mug shots. I mean, I had like long hair that was like stuck to my face with blood. I mean, maybe the best mug shots. And I've gotten mug shots. These are real mug shots on the book cover, but I haven't managed to get those ones. I'm gonna get it. Many ones good at anything. Help me out. It's your own mug shot.

How do you know? How are you not able, what the hell? Maybe they were conveniently lost because I was looking at having a case against the cops. I mean, it sounds pretty clear to me from that whole description that he was looking for an excuse to beat the shit out of somebody. And then in his report, he said that there were bottles being thrown at him and fireworks

and all the stuff that was verifiably false. The lawyer that got my charges dismissed was looking at what he said in his report and going, this is insane. Like he's not even lying well. He's right. There were all the newspapers were there. You don't have to lie well though. That's the thing. He could have lied better. I'm not sure. Not most of my charges dropped or reduced if he had lied a little better. So he did a little better. So he did our day, we kept his job. But. So tell me about the freeway thing.

Like why, why, why is that a thing you said? The dirty thing, this is from my perspective. Sure. During the Persian Gulf War, we would march and the point of a protest is to disrupt. Right. And the cops would throw a parade permit at us. And then they would literally block streets for us.

And they'd, you know, go out and block the cars and then we marched through the intersection, they'd let the cars go again and they're blocking the next intersection. Right. And it was brilliant. I remember thinking at the time the cops sure have learned a lot since the 60s. You know, here we are now in the 90s

and the cops are taking our teeth out of our protest. Right. And so we pushed it further. I'm like, okay, well, they're not going to give us a parade permit to go block the freeway. And so I remember the first time someone said we had to the freeway and thinking, oh, wow. And we did. We shut down this whole, you know, like five lane freeway or however big the 80 is there going through Sacramento. And we're blocking the freeway. And I remember a cop walks up to me and he says,

are you in charge? No, I got no one's in charge. And he says, there's a sick kid in that car and we would like to get him through. And so I'm not in charge, but I'm loud. Sure. You know, and so I start yelling, there's a sick kid in this car. Let's get this car through. And it was people part of the next car through Chis'esquees through when people blocked him. And I remember that guy getting all angry and honking. And then as this car with a sick kid

gets through, the cop walks over to me and goes, yeah, you're in charge and takes a picture of my face. kid gets through the cop walks over to me and goes, yeah, you're in charge and takes a picture of my face. I was like, wow. So, so you're anything. You unintentionally, I am Spartacist. I did. Yeah. That went out realizing they were looking for Spartacists. You said you were Spartacists. Yeah, they know true Spartacists. You, but we held the freeway for a little bit and then we marched back off the freeway. Okay. And so then I've watched that become a more and more common tactic that, you know, again, it's a bigger disruption. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. I remember being in a ride down to a mic down in Santa Cruz. And it was after, uh, so God dang it was a while back. And there was a comedian in there who was like, I, you know, he's like, I think they lost my sympathy by blocking the freeway. Like it made it. Yeah. And I'm like, they're not here for your sympathy, bro.

Like you had that chance. You had that chance. Now they have to block the freeway. They want your awareness. You know, and this whole thing was like, you know, I think they would get more, you know, it's one of those that they would get more flies with honey kind of thing. I'm like, that's, that's not how they had a guy. They had a guy a great leader who really preached that great leader, really, you've preached that approach.

And then the fucking head. Yeah. And people, people gave it a try. I'm not saying it was the best approach, but they were like, yeah, let's fucking give this a try. And he was a student of Gandhi's. Mm-hmm. Gandhi blocked trains and shut things down.

And, you know, yeah. Also, look how quickly, comparatively, India got their independence. Yeah. The civil rights movement here had much, much longer and much less progress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

And that guy, that guy, Martin Luther King King Jr. who they love to quote when they're trying to insult rioters throwing it back in their faces. He himself said, no, that's, this is the, what did he call it? The riots are the language of the unheard or riot? A riot is the language of the unheard. Yeah. Yeah, he's like, no, I get it. Yeah. And you know, they conveniently choose to forget air quotes around forget

that he wound up parting ways with the snake and basically said the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement have to split off from one another. Yeah. And his, he basically dedicated to right before his assassination, he had come to the conclusion that what a big part of the civil rights movement had to be anti-poverty, anti-capitalist stuff. And they're by anti-war. Yeah, and they're by anti-war. And like, you never hear any of those folks you're like, well, you know, Mark Luther Kingwood of stuff that actually he might have. And here's here's chapter and verse of where he did. For the actual you just have a dream.

Yeah, but he had a lot more speeches. So yeah, no, my favorite part about that is also they tend to forget that at the time of his death, he was literally the most hated man in America. Yes. My whole polls. That's like, yeah, you don't get most hated man in America. Yes. Final polls. That's like, you don't get to quote him if you hated him. So that works.

So all right. So back to yourself, um, a, a, a, favorite subject, white 51 year old male writing a book about being arrested. Um, writing it in the middle of the George Floyd protests and one of the first things that I address in it is like I don't want it to be climbing while white, you know, okay. Um, so right away, I'm just like, yeah, these are the stories that I have to tell, but I will tell them knowing that they're from this perspective. The fact that you're alive to tell them is absolutely. Yeah.

And I also encourage people to go out and get arrested, but I make it clear that I'm talking to other people I can make. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that to someone who might come out of it, they experience a lot less what sort I'm looking for, undamaged. Yeah. I've actually had a coworker come to me and thank me

for using my privilege so effectively. Yeah. She is a black woman and she's like, I am so glad you were here using your privilege to stick up for the things that we need to stick up for. And I was like, literally the least I could do. So, you know, but. And people talk about that a lot, like, when we talk about having privilege, people, like, I get called so I just in the last week, and called-hating I think you might have seen that I quoted I put up screen count like I calling me a self-hating white guilt.

But I'm not saying that I have privilege and therefore I'm bad or I did something or I'm guilty because I have privilege like it's I just don't want it to be a privilege. I want to have these rights. I just want other people to have them sit right now. Yeah, I'm wearing shed things. Yeah, I'm aware that it's a privilege, you know, yeah, and on universal. And and fundamentally the privilege that we have is that, you know, we get we get treated the way the system says we are supposed to get treated. Right. Like, we're the default.

We're the default and like everybody else ought to get to be the default too. Right now, they get so hung up on this idea that we're saying it's bad that we have this. And it's like, no, no, we're saying it's bad that it's a privilege. It's bad. Don't. I remember arguing with these guys in a cigar shop, which I talk about in here,

me and Johnny Taylor, our old friend, Michael O'Connell, who was sitting out at the cigar shop and he never told us that it was a cop hangout. That most of the people we were entertaining there because we would perform there. Right. And I had no idea. And we were there at the night of one of the riots. I forget which one now had been so many.

It was Ferguson, I remember the story. Okay. Yeah. Because it was when Johnny's album released, right? I think mine. Oh, yours, okay. We were there like kind of watching to see what it would do on the iTunes chart and stuff. It was the tradition for him and I.

Right. We could get together and hang out somewhere. But I get into it with these guys and one of them was like, you keep talking about our privilege, but you look like you're well-dressed and this man and the other and I was like, oh no, it's mine, but I'm white too. Yeah. I'm not standing here going, you're a privilege, you're, I'm saying, where are friends? I'm just like, okay.

Do you notice the collective pronoun there? We. It's like, I'm just starting talking about pronouns, boy. Yeah, sorry, sorry, English teacher here. I forgot. That's a badjective, thank you. Yeah, Jim, okay, right teacher here. I forgot. That's a badgative, thank you. Yeah, Jim, okay, right. Yeah.

Um, go ahead. Yeah, well, you know, I can, I can kind of speak from, from the other side of that. There was, there was a long time where I really did not like the phrase white privilege. Like it, it bugged me. Um, and then, and then I had, I had to run in with, with law enforcement. So it's a long story. But I didn't wind up getting arrested. I, I

did wind up handling it in a way that is very white. Yeah. Because when the police showed up to essentially ambush me, long story, I immediately started making myself as, I treated it like I was facing off against a bear. I made myself as big as possible, got as loud as possible, and was trying to get, making it so there would be lots of witnesses, right?

Um, and very, very long story they wanted to talk to me about a situation that involved my car which had been stolen. And I didn't know a goddamn thing like I had no information to give to him. Yeah. like I had no information to give to him. Yeah. But like I realized after the fact that like if I didn't look the way I did, I'd have been shot full of holes.

Yeah. And all of my assumptions about what I needed to do for my own safety in that situation was based on what I looked like. If my life experience had been different, that would not have been the way I approached it at all. And that from that moment forward, I was like, you know what, I can't in any, any honesty at all argue against the idea of white privilege because I wouldn't be here to have the discussion about it. that it's not that you've had it easy, it's not that you haven't had a hard life. It's that your life wasn't made harder by the color of your skin. Right.

Yeah. And you might not have economic privilege. You might be a poor white person, which is hard, but not as hard as being a poor black person. Right. Yes. There was always, you know, there was a study done. Revolution, gender, privilege and sexual,

and then there's passing. Like there's, there's so many asses. There was a study done of, um, they took a black and white applicants, applied for a job. Uh, some of them admitted to a felony. Others did not. Right. None of these people had felonies, but that's what they were acting. The white applicants got 34% callbacks. The black applicants got, I want to say 11% callbacks. Okay. Then you do the felonies. White applicants got 17%% callbacks of black applicants got 6% callbacks. Yeah, okay.

A white felon got more callbacks than a black man without a felony. Yeah, it was that kind of thing. I remember I mean, you know, since we're going around the table talking about when we figured out privilege stuff, it was literally drive back from Nevada City with you and me from that show where I hosted so funny it. He tells me he's like going up there. At least the wrestler? Yeah, it was with wrestler. I loved his thing on LoCigante's, but we're going up there and Keith's like all right So one of the things when you host is once you say the person's name you have to stop So you don't say their name at the beginning you you say their name only at the end you introduce them You give all the things like all right cool

You want to take your jeans and he's very funny, you know People Jensen give it up for right. It's it's everything and then end on his name, you know. All right, cool. So I go up there and I'm hitting all my spots as best I can and then I'm like, all right, you guys ready for your next comic, then it up. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Keith Lowell, Jen, and he's just laughing his ass off at me.

Because I was supposed to like give his credits and the shit that he'd done and he's laughing his ass off at me. Because I was supposed to like give his credits and the shit that he'd done. And he's laughing his ass off at me as he's coming up. And he sees that I see it. I'm just like, mother fuck. I thought it was so funny. The whole reason, right, maybe that advice was because it's a very common mistake.

And for some reason it's just for us not to. Yeah. So backwards. So the one time, you know, that you know, he's giving me the advice I immediately, you know, do the opposite. Yeah. So on the way back though, it was that you pointed out that it was a relativistic thing. That privilege was relativistic, not absolute. And that's when it clicked in for me. I wish it took less time than that. but that combined with Eric Garner's murder. That's what did it for me. I was like, oh, okay, fuck this. And haven't looked back since,

well, I look back frequently, but like, you get the idea. So, but back to your book, what made you, you said in a previous podcast of ours ours that this was the book that you wanted to lead with, right? Yeah, this would have been more like stories that I wanted to tell. So I did a thing where I'm thinking about what I wanted to talk about as a comedian, especially as I was becoming more and more of a storytelling comedian. You want to find things that are universal, but I was also like, well, what's unusual? What do I have to talk about that other people might be interested in because it's unique to me?

Right. And so I realized I'd had a lot of jobs. I was standing around at a big corporate meeting at Patco with all the other managers and assistant managers and somehow the subject came up where else have you worked. And we were on the circle and someone was like, oh, I worked at Dollar Tree and then here and someone else was like, oh, I worked at these two places and then here.

Then they come to me and I was like, well, I worked at the golf course and then KFC and then I worked at for a video. You were a synatra song. Then blockbuster video and then. And I'm up to like 11 and they're like, okay, stop. And I'm young still at this point. Sure. And so I realized that was unique. And I started putting together a not-for-reheir, which was my first big storytelling show. And so at the time that, you know, they asked me to write a book, like I submitted to them not for me higher in book form.

Oh, is that what you're talking about? And they got rejected, but they wanted me to write the bunching Nazis book instead. And then I started working on arrest stories in the same way that I had just done stories of getting fired from jobs. I was like, well, I've been arrested more than a lot of people I know.

Mm-hmm. I have other friends that have been in prison and I had it a lot harder than me, but I've been arrested a lot for a guy who basically has never been a criminal. My friends have been in prison and earned it, but I've never been a criminal. And somehow I just, my big mouth, like I was, to work on those stories. And, but also the pandemic hit.

And so I'm in the middle of working on this and then all of a sudden I can't perform. So that made it even more attractive to put it on the page. Okay. And then I came to this publisher through my friend Aaron Carnes who wrote a really good book. Oh man, talk about history. You guys should have him on some time to talk about ska.

He wrote a book called, Indefense of Skaw where he wrote the whole long story to history of ska music and why it's relevant and wonderful. But that was published by these guys at Clashbooks, and so he introduced me to them, and this is where I belong. I love that I got to put a book out with a big publisher, like Skyhorse Books. But that was such a mistake on that part. I'm a little in the book and a guy. This is where I belong, and so I'm glad that I published this one with the Clash and they're really awesome. It's just like a husband of wife run. I mean, I publish her out of New York. Very cool. Okay. So how long into your comedy career? Did you wait before approaching the book scene? Specifically this one? Hmm. And I mean, you doing stand up, not sketch stuff, not, you know, pun tournaments,

which isn't even comedy, let's be real. But, you know, hardly art. It's right above puppetry. We are right, but right below like talk radio and talk, you we do more talk shit talk puppetry Damien raise my eye or didn't you hear me talking about Edgar Bergen the last time we bought gas to do I love puppets grace he was the guy from Murphy Brown I remember all you son of a bitch um it is so nice to hear somebody else having these reactions to him. Thank you. I think that she actually wrote a book called Knock on Wood about her relationship with her little brother Charlie, her older brother, Charlie McCarthy. Really? Actually being jealous of her father's comedy partner at times. I knew of her before Murphy Brown because she was in Gandhi. Your father's. Oh, gotcha.

Yeah. Anyway, where were we? I wanted to know how long into your comedy career you waited before. I don't know. 15 to 20 years. Okay. Really deep, really deep into it. Yeah.

How long have you been doing comedy? Close to 25 years. Yeah. How long have you been doing? I makes a huge I mean you'll double your income. It's a really good idea. Really it's that dramatic. Oh yeah well you get paid a hundred for a show you make a hundred and booked. Yeah that sounds dramatic but comedians don't get paid well. Okay right. Okay here's something I'm becoming increasingly more willing to shoot myself in the foot

over this one. Okay. The time that us comedians start talking about it, pay hasn't gone up in 25 years. I would do it at 25 years and an open air, $850 on average and a feature gets paid $100. And that that hasn't changed in 25 years is out willing and bitch. Especially considering that gas in 25 years has gone from a buck oh nine to 509. And so that's on our expenses, but then also on the money coming in, look at what ticket prices have done. Yeah, now they're 15 to 20 with a two drink minimum. And those drinks, right? Yeah, that was what I was going to say was looking how much more

expensive the drinks have gotten in those places. And our place is the same. Yeah, that was what I was going to say was looking how much more expensive the drinks have gotten in those places. And our pace is the same. Yeah. It's criminal and we put up with it because we're happy to have it. That's crazy. Well, because you know, I mean, otherwise, give up show business. I mean, come on.

Right. That's like the old joke about that, you know, like, yeah, but that's the whole shit. Well, why don't you call it that? That's no business. joke about that. You know, about the bullshit. Well, why don't you quit? That's a show business. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. By the way, if we were getting paid according to inflation, as opposed to here.

Oh, yeah. Hold up my inflation, Galgier. If we were getting paid 25 years ago, we were getting paid 50 inflation wise that comes out to about 95 dollars now. That's for openers. Yeah. So that means the feature would be getting you said they get 100 now. The feature would be getting literally double this so about $200.

Yeah. And this is, it's hard work. Hosting is hard work. I remember the first time I featured leaving after my set, telling the headliner, I'll watch your set. Right. That's a balancing. Yeah. But the fact that I get to perform and believe,

what a privilege, because the host is stuck there all night. And the host has to get the name in the right order. I can tell you from experience that it's hard. They have to go up again after the last. So they can't even like turn off and just chill. You know, they're on call. Yeah, the whole night. And it's very exhausting. And if it's a bad night, you have to go up and kind of save the energy for the headliner. Right. You know, you got to reset the audience. Yeah. Yeah. Like that was one of the nicest compliments I got actually was that I had to go do that for a comedian who's actually doing quite well now. Okay. In the in the very scene. So I'm not going to name names, but he got really drunk and started staring at his phone. And not when I was lighting him.

And so I had to go up and reset it. And I come back off and our friend Johnny, you were there too. Our friend Johnny's like, wow, nice job. Nice. Cool. All right. But that should hard.

There's a guy in our local scene named Ellis Rodriguez. Yeah. And Ellis can always hit it out of the park. Always. He's a crowd pleaser. Yeah. And so can always hit it out of the book. Always. He's a crowd pleaser. Yeah. And so when he would show up at Luna's, I used to tell people Luna's like book in advance. Don't show up and ask me for a sat night of. And he was my exception because he would show a good assort. And I was like, yeah, wait, wait till someone bombs. Right. He was always because that thing, yeah, can ruin the night. But if you have someone like him for cleanup, like, okay, this guy's tanking your own. I raised the energy. Oh, right. Oh, it was great.

I watched him in a 15 minute, just sitting there, saying it out loud session. I just watched him develop a bit from literally nothing to a stage ready bit on the N word and which letter is most offensive and he goes into it's you know everybody is mad at the hard are but then why do we just say it's the N word like and then he starts looking at you know because Ellis himself is Panamanian and black if I recall correctly. And yeah. He he he he a black Panamene. Yeah. And he presents black audiences recognize him as such. But he just starts and he just goes into things that start with end that black people love. And then he starts with things with r that black people hate.

And so he's like, look, we leave it off of this word even. And he just literally started from nothing. Yeah, yeah. And then it just like was like in 15 minutes, I'm just sitting there going, oh my God, this is, this is a masterclass. This is cool. Yeah, he's fun to watch. He is.

So, okay, so you, you start writing a book. Do, do is book writing kind of a thing for comics? Is that the new paradigm or is this still as yet an untapped market? I don't know. I know that most cashier wrote book which is cashier in the eye. It's fantastic. And I forget her name, but Sarah Fowler, whatever from Big Bang Theory. Okay. What's that actress's name? Anyone?

Never watched CBS. She's one of the candidates for hosting Jeopardy after Austria. Wonderful. Me on Biolic or whatever her name is? That's the one. Okay. So she just called out Mosh's book

as one of her favorite memoirs of all time. Okay. And she used the phrase, I call it I. What's that? Wow. Very well read. And he said it jumped him into the best seller's list again.

And then he said, watch for book related news next week. And I haven't checked back to see if his book related news came out yet or not. So he's doing very well. Community, you know, sign fields, always written books, uh, build house, b-road books, um, George Carlin, but I use bits into books. I, yeah, I feel like on our level, it, I, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the new merch to have on the table because the,

like I said, the CD, the DVD thing really did leave a hole. Right. I'm comedians trying to have vinyl, which is more collectible. So maybe I had even if they're not necessarily going to play it a lot for the vinyl is very difficult to transport. And I think it's very niche. I think this is not everyone is collecting records. So I, I'm so glad that I have the books and I can't wait to have more. I have a kids book. I have a kids book coming out this year. Do you know? Yeah, it's called

Tiger Torn. And it's about a tiger. It makes rip torn, obviously. Yeah, clearly. It's about rip torn and his friendship with the tiger. Right. Yeah. A lot of growling. I think those kids look like ripped torn. Like ripped torn. Yeah. Obviously. I love that some of his name was ripped torn. I mean, I know he wasn't born with that name, but it just makes me so happy. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm going to sell the hell out of that because you go up and you do great. And honestly, like I feel like part of your merch is people like I loved it. I want to take something home. Yeah.

I'm a mentor. And I want to give you more money. I just I want to show my appreciation. Well, and also I think a book does something different that a CD you never did because you've seen your friend's CD's collections back in the day, right? And they were just huge walls. And it was the enormity of the CD collection that really sold it, not how you had it organized.

You know, we're not all high fidelity. And so it was the enormity of it. It was the way that you stored it. That was really cool. And then same thing with albums on some level. Those are a little bit more decorative. But like a book is your way of showing off to other people that you were at a thing where a special thing happened.

Like, oh yeah, yeah, that's a comedian that I saw. Pretty good. And also he's got a book. Like it just adds a depth to it, you know. I, I, I, I so disagree with you though on the CD collection. I, I judged people so harshly, but how their CDs were, you were an outlier. You were absolutely an outlier. Like most people CD collections were about like, wow, you sure have a lot.

Yeah, what do you want to listen to? I don't know. What do you have? Well, that's the reggae section over there that's like 40 CDs well just pick one like it was those kinds of conversations that I would hear um but you know then again I don't actually care about music that much. I really don't know yeah yeah you didn't name your daughter after a song or anything. No. Yeah. So you know this about Damien? He doesn't care for music. Oh yeah. No, we've talked about it a number of times. We've even done an episode of song covers that were better than their originals. I don't really care that much about music. Yeah. Yeah. You know what's a hard one?

Devo's satisfaction Yeah, it's so good The original one of my favorite pop songs ever written. Yeah, so well. Yeah, it's real But like for anyone to cover that and come close So the original and Devo nails it in such a different way the problem I have with it is that it always recalls to me the scenes from Casino when Joe Pesci's and Robert Gineiro's relationship is breaking down and they're no longer talking to each other. They're in the same rooms in the Casino

and not talking to each other because Devo is playing in the background with I can't get a satisfaction. I've never made that association. And like Joe Pesci's beating the shit out of somebody. And he's like on the decline of his power. And so it takes him like four punches to knock a guy out. And like it just, unfortunately that ruined the song for me

in a lot of ways. That's, yeah. So, okay. So, okay, so, business, the comedy, ADHD friendly podcast, by the way. Quite so. You're,

yeah, it was following the threats where they go. Well, it has this amazing unique ability to have conversations with me where we can go on whatever wild flights of fancy and usually wherever we started is lost. And Damon's the only person that then will go, okay, so as I was saying, just new exact. Oh, yeah. And, and loop it right back to where you work. Yeah. And he's proud of it. And he thinks it's something good. But it's like, no, I took us on that flight of fancy, not just because I couldn't help it

because I made the HD, but also I was done talking about that. We're we're we're really want to hear the rest of you story about how you were cleaning a racers yesterday. Yeah. way to really get the chalk out of me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah there's a standup comedy, champion should rest of the professional wrestling thing? Like, the parables. Alone.

Standup comics love wrestling. Oh yeah. I've never met a group of people that more love wrestling. It's because we can identify with it. You're fighting for minutes. It's pretty much just you and your performance. And like there's there's very little pay. It's a lot of time on the road and

the reality that doesn't exist. The longer your career is, the more likely you are to be completely ruined by it. doesn't exist. The longer your career is, the more likely you are to be completely ruined by it. You know, the Robin Trin is a huge wrestling fan. Oh, yeah, she and I were like buddies about wrestling as she was transitioning actually, like we would keep talking about wrestling. In fact, it was summer slam that let her know that she was in fact transgender. Yes. I'm not really this story. Oh, yeah, because Daniel Bryan, uh, didn't win and and she was talking to her therapist about how she was so mad that they just

won't accept him for who he is. They want him to be something different and that broke her open into that. Like, I'm, I I'm absolutely painting with a broad brush and saving time, but like it was essentially that. Wow, yeah. I remember being on the road and one of the rare nights where we actually got a hotel room, mean Johnny Taylor onto we're much more likely to sleep in our car or crash on a couch. We're in a hotel room in Arizona somewhere and I look over and see that

Johnny's phone is flashing on his face. I realize he's watching something and I think maybe I'll catch him looking at some porn or something. Hey Johnny, which watch it? He turns it to me and it's like 20-year-old wrestling highlights. He's watching the live wrestling, read his hit, that's two in the morning. Oh, you know, those case ideas that I made him so famously, he would come over and we would watch old wrestling promos together. And I would be like, okay, now you see that one. Look at what this guy does as his promo.

Do you see how it's echoing that? And it's actually, and these are just totally different federations and, you know, like we watched wrestling documentaries together that summer a lot. Like, do you watch the one about, dang it, what's his name? The guy that everybody was so mad, the actor, that they gave the belt to.

Oh, Andy Kaufman. No, David Arquette. That's one. Did you watch his documentary? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Andy Kaufman. No. Oh, David Arquette. That's one. Did you watch the stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was so much fun. Oh, boy. That was so.

Come on, when he went down to Mexico and wrestled with the lucha doors. No, it was more when he went against the guy who decided to go into business for himself and go super hardcore on him. Like, when he was in the backyard? No, well, it was in a, it was kind of a backyard leak, but it was in a building down in LA. And I forget the guy, it wasn't Necro butchered that he went against.

It was some other guy. When the guy took a fluorescent light bulb, jabbed it into his forehead, and then a pizza cutter across his forehead. And the thing hit him in the neck and open and then the rest. Yeah, I didn't see where my forgot about those wild. It's about even as I'm making fun of him. I'm totally feeding this. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about wrestling. By the way, yeah. Yeah. it's, it's, yeah, this is my life, you did my life one night a week.

Yeah. And for Hollywood is the only wrestling documentary you really need. Not true. There's one called 350 days that is amazingly sad. I'm so great. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But what I was going to say is there's a communication professor out in North Carolina. Actually, there's a communications professor up in Washington now too, who just did a seven part Hulk Hogan series with us not too long ago. But there's a comms professor out in

a miss podcast. Yeah. Our series on Hocogan. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. It should be, it should be noted Damien. I'm so sorry. Damien did a seven part series. Here's the deal. It's actually like as a case study of like how K-Fab fucks with literally everything.

It's remarkably listenable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From from you hear seven part series about a hook hoeing like oh my god, what the fuck? But but like I was literally like okay when are we when are we picking this up again? To because I want to find out what happened next. Well, like you know, yeah, because part of it is like how much shit Hulk Hogan has got no way with.

Yeah. Like, oh my God. So what is your, what is your professional wrestling? What is your thing that you made? Hard series. Damien, you want to tell him. Sci-fi authors whose name start with H. Yeah, well, okay, that too.

Warhammer 40k. Yeah. I'm trying to talk and yeah, talking. Talking. I don't know forever about talking. Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't I wouldn't do a justice. I'm sure. I know some learn the rings. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I could I could spend way too much time. Yeah, about actually all of the above the the Warhammer 40. The funny thing is I've only done a couple

of episodes about Warhammer 40K, but it slips in through the cracks every so often. Right. I don't want to get in trouble, but that's a video. Right. It's it's it's a whole lot of things. It's mostly a tabletop war game, but it's turned into a media kind of empire. Oh, I didn't really have a tabletop game. Yeah, yeah, it's a war game. It's all kinds of fun. Yeah.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war and that's pretty much all you need to know. So there's a game shop on Florentville Abard. Yeah. And they have like a big war hammer thing. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I know because it's right by the boba shop. Oh there you go. Yeah. Okay. And I have to take my dog the boba fair. It means booby you know. Means what? Booby. You mean really? Like old grandmother? I should verify this before I repeat it. But hell, I'll just go ahead.

Yeah. Oppositely, bubble tea. Yeah, when it reached Japan was marketed by a voluptuous woman who was very breastly. Okay. It was called boba tea, which would be the equivalent of us calling it booby tea. Okay.

Because of its association with her. Okay. And we got to America that caught on. I think what, yeah. Because boba doesn't, we don't associate boo with breasts, but it's still fun word to say It's one of things where you came here from Japan you would be like What really they just openly call it booby It's like going to Clint hero in England. Yeah, we're it mean? And he's like, I won't say it in front of Brinnell. You won't say it in front of my wife.

She likes to step away a little bit and he goes, it is a part of a woman. And he's like, I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in.

I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in. I'm not going to step in't say it in front of my wife. She like stepped away a little

bit and he goes, it is a part of a woman. Wait, what? Oh, okay, I'm looking this up. Hold up. It's like the author Dean Vagina. Yeah, same thing. Is the author wait, what now? There's an author. I'm not going to say his name, but it's like Dean basically vaginas. Oh yeah. Yeah, he's a My security right? Yeah, Ed knows right? Yeah, it's a little NTS. Poons. Oh, Poons. Yeah, like art coons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's just gross. Doesn't coons just mean art in German? That's kind. Don't know my German.

Yeah. So, all right. So, as- Come on, bring us back to you, man. As an author and as a comic. And you said earlier that you had written this while you were designing it as a special. Do you find that there's an overlap in the efforts for specials and books? Have you been able to transfer that skill set over? Because I know you have a number of specials out that people could probably stream.

But please do go watch for free right now. I need you can watch what I was arrested for and not for rehunter. Okay. The Golden 100 pound gorillas YouTube channel. Building a special. Did you find that there were a lot of skills that transferred over to writing a book? Yes, I find that I really like the back and forth. I take the stories and put down all the details by writing them out long. And then I have to do a much more bridged, short version of it on stage, but I find jokes. And then I'll go back and add those jokes to the book. So in the book, you kind of get the best of both worlds because you will get, I will try to put the jokes into the book. But I won't try to put all the heavy details into the stand up.

Right. But like someone asked me, they bought the book from me at the end of the show and they said, should I watch a special first or read the book first? And I said, watch a special first. These jokes rely on the element of surprise to be funny. Right. And so it'll blow up for you if you read it first.

But then when you read it, you'll get the gory details and the jokes are secondary. But yeah, I really like the back and forth. It's not even like I write it and then I make a stand-up thing out of it or do a stand-up thing out of it and then write it. It literally is I do one and then I do the other and then I revise the original and it's a neat process. And I'm a big Marks Brothers fan and I loved the Marks Brothers.

They usually didn't write their own script. They would work with a script writer. And then they would take it on the road. And so like Duck Soup and Tours Brothers. The best stuff was to it all around Vodville. Right. And there's a story about Kaufman being backstage doing his little walk. Groucho was impersonating him when he did his little tilt it over walk. And marching back and forth backstage while they're performing.

And then he shoots upright and someone says what? And he goes, they just said one of the lines I wrote. It was that rare for them to actually use something from the script. They were such maniacs. But I think that that's such a great process for a writer. And you were talking earlier about Ellis writing a bit on stage. When you're on stage, there's this sink or swim panic that taps into a part of your brain that's

really hard to tap into. Otherwise, I can work on a joke forever at my desk. Just get stuck and not know the right way to word it. And then I get on stage and my brains in panic and I need to get that laugh. My brain will go, and just spit it out. I'm like, oh, that's it. I was never need to get that laugh my brain to go, put it up and just spit it out. And I'm like, oh, that's it. Right. I was never going to get that sitting at my desk. I was never going to find that, you know. Is that a function of adrenaline? Oh, yeah.

OK. My friend, to Ponch-Ravetti, I was in another Sacramento comedian. He always wanted to put a bunch of monitors on someone and then have them go up and do stand up to see what happened to us physically. Because he noticed that we could be really sick, have a horrible cold, not be able to function and then get up and do a stand-up set and you wouldn't know it.

And then come offstage and collapse again. Right. You know, I remember working for Spike and Mike and having a migraine so bad that I climbed under a bench in lobby, and put my jacket over my head. And then, spike came to me and said, hey, it's time to go up. Are you going to be okay? And I said, yeah, and I went up and I did great.

And I didn't have a headache for the 10 minutes that I was up. But then I came back down and crawled back under the bench because I was back to having a migraine. So I don't know what physically happens to us, like how much the adrenaline gets surging or what weird fears that that wonderful roller coaster kind of fear. But there's something that definitely, you know, like I said, and that like fear of failure will make your brain just kick into its higher instincts and just work really fast. How about this?

I love when I have a joke that I've been performing for years and I've gotten bored with it. Maybe I've even recorded it already. And then one night I tell it and my mouth says something totally new that I've never said before. And I'm like, where the fuck did that come from? That's just the most satisfying thing, you know. Yeah. And I've been working on this for years and tonight, for some reason tonight, this new thing just came out, you know. Yeah, it now it's crystallized. Like, got that new facet and it finally like all hangs together. Yeah. That's a whole people complaining when a comedian does material on an album or a special,

but they've done on a previous album or special. I love it, because almost always they're doing it again because they tweaked something. Oh, okay. And like Pat and Oswald does that. I'll see him, there's a,

and he doesn't do it a lot, but there's a couple of jokes that you hear him repeat an album later, and it's changed. Do Tweet did he put it in a new context? He has a new framework for it. I love to see that development. How much research do you put into your books? I mean, obviously, well, that's a dumb question, because you lived the experience of this most recent one. But like, do you spend much time doing research? Yeah, so the punching Nazis wanted to do a lot of research. And the research was actually really fun.

You know, I know about the story about the Walter Winshaw. Walter Winshaw and Murray, the Langs gangster, the Jewel. Myer, Myer Lansky. Myer Lansky. Yeah. Myer Lansky, a Jewish gangster, went and beat the shit out of Nazis. No, no, no. No. And Judge was tipping him off on where he could find them under the understanding that he wouldn't kill.

Right. Only beat the shit out of him. Don't kill them. And I'll keep feeding you and throwing where to kill them. And I'll keep feeding you and so on where to find them. And then Winchel going on the radio and basically praising it. You know, tonight the German and American with a bund bun. Yeah, the German American, but yeah, the German American bun getting their asses kicked and thrown out the window. The scene of a bunch of Jewish gangsters up and down a hallway. These Nazis with no other way to get out of the building except to run down that hallway

with Jewish gangsters. Just a nail. Why isn't that in a movie? You know, why is there a movie? Myrlansky beating up Nazis? I was in good question. It's wise. They, I mean, they did the,

an American story with Danero and James Woods as Bugsie Seagull and his friend, nowhere near as compelling as Swingy, who just mentioned. Except for the salt things, that was pretty cool. So. I don't think I've ever seen that one. I'll have to go fix that watch the not directors cut because that will you only have to spend three hours. It's a good film. It's well done. Um, there's some really uncomfortable parts of it, but it's very well done. And what would you say it is?

Uh, it's,ugsie Seagull. No, no, who's the filmmaker? Oh, the maker. I don't remember the the Spaghetti Westerns guy, isn't it? Is it? I think it's a guy who is full of dollars and my Sergio Leone. I don't know All right, anyway, but if you just look up James Woods gangster movie, you'll find it. So back to your question. Yeah, like on what I was arrested for, I didn't do a whole lot of research. I didn't, I just tried to delve into my stories. And then when it was fun, where it really was, I was like, I want to tell stories.

I want to have the heart of this book. I want it to be stories. Punching Nazis and other good ideas, have some stories in it, had some rancents in it, had some interviews in it. This one is just pure, I'm just telling stories. I didn't have to do a ton of research. But now I'm writing, uh, ADHD AF, and I think it, it's funny that you should ask me that today because it was literally just last night that it occurred to me that I could write about the history of ADHD and put some research into it beyond my personal experience with it. I know that they didn't call it ADHD when I was diagnosed. Right.

Just call that hyperactivity disorder. Right. You know, I know that I was they started I think they started diagnosing riddle in as early as the 50s, but I was the first generation where they was starting to become fairly commonplace. And there was only riddle in they have so many right right. Yeah. So, you know, and so the first thing I do with is is delve into the personal stuff, which is kind of a research in a way because I even lie joke that I write autobiographical

fanfiction because I'm much more concerned with the story than the truth. I do spend a lot of time trying to get my memories in order and trying to remember correctly what happened. I'm doing a joke about it now where I'm talking about people that are a diagnosed ADHD as adults. I'm not the same. I was diagnosed third grade. I'm like, if you reached adulthood before they tried to give you a pill, you might just be annoying. I'm not trying to put down what we have in common or whatever, but I do feel like they should say, child diagnosed ADHD or adult diagnosed ADHD. If your siblings never chopped up your medication

and sold it to their friends, we're not in the same club. And I'm so nervous about that joke because it's true. And I don't know what the statute of limitations on it is. My brothers and I never got caught. And if my parents hear me tell that joke, they will not be happy. Use the word cousins. Like then, then it's fictional people. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, pretty smart. They'll know. Oh, you're worried about your parents more. So then we're worried about my parents getting mad at my brothers. Does my brothers

in fact chop up my griddle and, and sell it as speed. Now it's funny, now they think it just sell it as riddle and, hey, I'm not a little, no, no, no. But, there's all kinds of math leads getting, yeah, at a roll. No, they just chopped it up and sold it as speed and their friends came back from work, as it worked.

Yeah. And you know what gave them the idea? I thought when they added, didn't want to take it, which is why it was available for my brothers to chop up. And the ad says, you are hyperactive. He thought that my reason for not wanting to take it is that I thought I wasn't hyperactive. I would say, it's never the issue.

I was like, obviously, I'm hyperactive. And I almost think like I didn't want to not be hyperactive. Like I worried it was going to take something that was uniquely knee away from me. Sure. Yeah. Well, because you're one of five brothers that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Identity is such a big thing. Yeah.

So, but my dad says in front of my brothers, if you weren't hyperactive, this would be like speed for you. You would take this and be like speed, but because you're hyperactive, you take it and you focus as you, and that's what proves that you really are hyperactive. And my brother's here, what's that now?

I'm saying, wait a minute. It would be like speed. Business opportunity much. It's it. Wait a minute. It would be like speed. Business opportunity much. It's cheap. Right. People will trade money services. So do you, as we wind this down, do you envision a time where you will stop comedy

or book writing? And which one first? Because I mean, on some level, I, I, I know you, you've opened for Wu Tain clan. You, you've been on the history channel. You've, you've done cool shit. But a lot of that will be stuff that will be lost to the sands of time in some way. Your books are going to be in the Library of Congress, the largest library in the world by virtue of the fact that they are published books. That's got to be pretty cool because that means like it's in the same category as poor

Richard's Almanac from the 1700s. Never mind quality, just like in general, and I don't mean that in any kind of a slight either. Just you're right in there with actually my first ex-wife also has published a couple of books, which is just, that'll be an off screen thing. This is a set. But I've heard that. You've got something that like three generations from now, you'll have a great great nephew who never met you.

We'll pick it up and be like, oh, shit, I know. That's my grandpa's brother, you know, that kind of thing. Is there one that you're favoring more than the other? Is there one that you're valuing more? Is there one that you're seeing more longevity in? I know there's a lot of questions in there. So just. Yeah, and it's a wonderfully complicated subject because there's the thing that I think I'm better at. Uh-huh. If I'm really honest with myself and with you, I'm,

I'm, you could call it arrogance or confidence. I believe that I am uniquely gifted at storytelling on stage. I think that I've been a decent writer, but I plan to be a really good writer. I'm still figuring out the book writing thing. And I'm the kind of person that can only figure something out by doing it, not by doing it in private. Gotcha. I can write something and edit it a hundred times and the minute I share it with you and

I know your eyes are looking at it, I can go edit it effectively. Now my psychology, I can't edit it effectively until I know someone else is looking at it. And then my brain kicks in the hide here and I actually see the mistakes and I can clean it up, which is why I'll share things with people that are on mass. I'm like, oh my God, how could you share this? But I had to. Right. Yeah. Again, that's that adrenaline spike.

You've got someone watching you. And I want to always be proud of what I did in this book. But my next one will be way, way better. Even like to give you a specific example in both punching Nazis and in what I've arrested for. There's this opening chapter where I kind of explain and I feel like almost apologize for why I'm writing the book. Right.

And that's not a mistake I will make again. A.B.H.D. A.F. I'm going straight into the stories. I'm going straight. I'm dropping you right off in Keyt world, you know. But that's one little boost of confidence from book two to book three.

I will get better at writing. But right now I'm a really, really good stand-up storyteller. I'm an obok writer who's going to get better. So this one, the writing books is really important to me because I'm going to get better at it and because I want to get better at it. And I do have that sense of it being something that might have a longer shelf life. But this stand up is something that I'm so proud of.

I was on a mind dog podcast radio show recently where he uh uh uh compared me to Spalding Grey and I'm not saying that I agree or whatever but Spalding Grey is someone that as a storyteller I have so much uh sometimes in awe and I was very flattered it would be like if I was being compared to David Siddharz, you know. And I've never gotten praise for my books like that. So I have a there's a school teacher who's actually printed out quotes of things I've said on stage and displays them in his classroom. Oh, that's good. It's you. I know. I was I was king. I know where you know, I'm saying I was I was K Fabing for you. I was going to ask you all kinds of fun questions about that. In all of this. Jamie and as a high school drop out who did not get along well

with school, that is the most flattering fricking thing in the way. And you know, the only thing that's that's equally as flattering is that you see Davis pays me to come talk to their students once a semester. For a high school dropout to have a university invite him to come speak to their students or paying to be there. That's a huge ego boost and that feels really good and makes me very confident in that thing that I do. And if anyone wonders where my, whether you call it confidence or arrogance comes from, it comes from things like that. People are like, you're not exactly selling out of reno,

it's like, no, but I am getting some pretty awesome accolades. You know? Yeah. So. And that gets into kind of the toxicity of the comedy world too, is like your value as a performer is, I mean, it is literally measurable in dollars and cents. And at the same time, you're doing art. And to commodify it to that level. Who's our felt that underground? You know, in music, you've got your Jonathan Richmond's and your velvet underground and your people who maybe never

have huge commercial success in their own time, but it's understood that they were important. And we respect them. Yeah. I feel like there's room for that and stand up as well for kind of an Indie scene. Sure. People that are respected are someone that's a comedian's comedian. Right. It's a book by Phil Berger called The Last Laugh. It's one of my favorite books about comedy. One of the things I like about it is that as he did research, he found comedians that were important to comedians, even though they never recorded and are would otherwise if he hadn't found their

stories in put them in his book would have been totally forgotten. That's true about wrestling too. Like there are your favorite wrestlers favorite wrestler. Yeah. Never like like Stone Cold Seavoss and we'll speak up and down about Bobby Eaton. Okay. Have your me, you know who Bobby Eaton is. Okay. Have you're me? You know who Bobby Bobby eaten is. I feel like a name but probably from you or just right. You know, if you're if you're me, you remember the name Bobby eaten because I've heard it from you. Right. You know, or you know, there's so many people where it's just like, oh man, that guy had the lightest touch. Oh, you it felt like he was stomping a grape, but it looked like he was stomping right through you. You know, and stuff like that. And like these incredibly successful wrestlers will be like, you know, the guy that you're really amazing, like Mock and Sing, man, he was just and like you have to do

some deep dives and then you realize, oh, that was booger bastion. And nobody knows who the fuck that was, you know, and it's like, oh, you know, and it's the same kind of thing, like a wrestler's wrestler. You know. And now I'm just following this on a tangent, but I was watching a documentary on hip-hop and they went and talked to I.C. And they were like, no one did what you did before you did it. He goes, oh no, schooly day.

Like, like, immediately he went, no. Someone did it. I'm the other guy from Philadelphia that I think was basically, school day. Like, like, like, immediately he went, no, someone did. Yeah, the guy from Philadelphia that nice thing was basically, yeah, cribbing his, cribbing his stuff. And I love, yeah. And I still had confidence enough in what he did and how well he did it that he was totally okay with.

No, no, I'm going to share the spotlight and this guy that inspired me. Absolutely. Yeah. We did the history of hip hop on this podcast with a teacher from Southern California who teaches a history of hip hop class. Oh, wow. Oh, it's great.

We're back in the center. So definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely do. It's amazing. There you go. Now we have for not listening to this seven part wrestling on if you put the guy in a 20 minute highlight

reel. There's a there's a five part wrestling one, if you want. I have two four part wrestling ones. One compares John Cena to Pope Francis. I like John Cena. That's it. And is that common that people who aren't big wrestling fans? He's like a crossover.

We like him. Yeah. He is a he's like a crossover. We like him. Yeah. He is he is a less successful, less giant star version of the rock. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, without putting down the rock at all, I think he's great. But John Cena has this like progressive value. He missed a lot of the admit that the rock may as well. I don't know, but Zena wears it a little more on his sleeve and I appreciate it. Rock puts it up with money behind some scenes and supports a lot of art. John Cena has literally more make-a-wish grants than anyone else.

He's more than double the next person. So, yeah. So, okay. You know, you want to be the Velvet Underground to comedy. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah, I want to be unsuccessful and then get just grid later and be bitter about it. I like it. That's my plan. You know what? I'll tell you what, even when I was in the band, just as a performer of any type, I have always said that I'm going to be a distance runner, that I'm going to get really good at whatever I do by refusing to stop doing it, and I'm just

going to keep working on it. And you know, I'll quit comedy if I feel like I'm not improving. Okay. If I'm not finding new things to do with it and getting better at it, but I still feel like I'm not improving. Okay. If I'm not finding new things to do with it and getting better at it, but I still feel like I feel like what I was arrested for is the best thing I've done yet. And you've said that about bad comedy for bad people when you've done that. Right. And I hope I keep feeling that way about new project is. No steps backward kind of just keep yeah, well, that's that's more for the art than it is for the, I mean, obviously you got to pay the mortgage, but like, that is much more for you.

That's your satisfaction as an artist more than it is putting food on the table in terms of. I was talking to a community who I won't name because he's scumbag, but you're talking about commerce. And he's to keep wanting to do this stuff independently. You can make so much more money He's like I you sell a hundred albums to make as much money as I make selling ten because I can do it all myself and like because I don't want him I

Want to make comedy and have a record label that knows how to sell a record sure and for three of my albums I was with a record label that didn't know how to sell a record. But I'm with a record label now who they're really smart. They know how to go find where the money is even as that. There's this huge behind the scenes lawsuit happening right now where all comedians who were making money off of satellite radio, which is that's where the money was. It wasn't people bitch about okay Public service announcement if your musician or comedian friend talks about how many Spotify listens they got or how many Pandora listens they got and they're proud of it Just fucking congratulate them It's not the time for you to say oh, no would that make you five cents?

Yes, they underpass and it sucks with that make you five cents. Yes, they underpass and it sucks. Okay, put it there. Yeah, comment to make when I'm going like, dude, this is so dope that 10 million times I was playing on Pandora, the 10 millions, not a number I ever thought I'd say. You know, that's what I was underpaid for it. Oh, totally. And it sucks. But right now, I just want to celebrate that I hit 10 million. That's cool.

And I got on a tangent. What I'm trying to say is that what all those people don't know is that satellite radio is actually paying us really well. And it's it bought me this house. Like I'm literally living in a house I wouldn't be in if it wasn't for satellite radio. And that money's gone. It just dried up because of this weird lawsuit

that's happening. And when the lawsuit settles, hopefully that money comes back again. I hope so. Yeah, wow. It hurts. But I'm not with the record label that immediately switched gears.

And was like, okay, I guess we go to YouTube now. And we try to make as much money as we can off of YouTube. And it's way less money. But they're still going and finding a try to make as much money as we can off of YouTube and it's way less money. But there's still going a finding way to make money and I don't want to do that. Right. If that's your hustle and you're good at that stuff and it's cool, like I'm not judging anyone that that is their thing. But I just want to make the best comedy I make and then trust someone else to handle the business part of it. That would just give me the headache.

Yeah, no, I get that. There's a reason I'm not a principal. I just want to teach. Leave me alone. And you hear what people are like, that's as far as he wanted to go. No, that was the job he wanted to do. What you see as the next step up is actually a step into a different job. Right. Right. So you didn't want to be a principal. You wanted to be a teacher. Exactly. It's not I'm it's not a leveling up thing. Like when when I hit my my goal was this. Cool for people want to climb over that. But my goal was this. And I'm like, man, when you and I went to coffee

and we went into ex-students of yours, and they were so excited to see you. That's true. They hugged you, and when students of yours have come out to see you do comedy, I told you, I've only had a couple of good teachers and I meant that but those good ones I had were so important. One of them Sherry I write about on my book in punching Nazis and I'm still friends with

third of this day. She had a huge impact on my life. Obviously you were that teacher to those kids the way they lit up on seeing you at the coffee shop they were like oh my god it's Mr. Harmony thank you we just call him shithead we call him get my bag we call him you say my name last and nothing else after my name and don't do material between comics unless we ask you to. Right. Right. You know, have you worked with Connor, he might have moved before you came on the same. No, but the name is very familiar.

Very, very funny guy, but he was, you know, a local headliner, like a less feature, a room feature, be room headliner. Right. And my first time ever hosting at the punchline, which is a big come up. You know, that's an important milestone in local comedy. I'm hosting Sunday. I showcase at the punchline and they were like, okay, Conor's headlining go ask how he wants to be introduced. So I walk up and this guy sitting with his legs apart, huge ripping his pants. I can see his red boxes showing through and I go,

hey man, how do you want to be introduced? And he goes, my name's Connor Kellika. I was like, okay, he's like, that's how I want to be introduced. I was like, okay. And he goes one more thing. And I go, what? And he goes, don't do fucking material in between. And I go, I wasn't planning on it. He goes, good. And I was like, what what? Yeah. I go up and I introduce him. He goes, I mean, murders. So funny. He comes off stage and I go, Hey, that was really good. That was funny. And he goes to funny as part was before I went out and would be in a day. Oh, you just fucking with me. And that's a casing, right? That's like our version. Yeah.

20 sounds like. Yeah. Well, drawing this to a close, um, you know about keeping me up after 10, right? Well, that's fine. We can stop recording in you and I can keep talking. No, no, this is this is going to be a marathon episode called Keith in his weird head space that he gets someone keeps him up after 10 at night. No, we can tap it up. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mr. Graham. Yeah. So I was just going to say, uh, plug the books that you want to plug, plug the specials you want to plug. Let folks know where they can find you and buy your shit. Go go watch what I was arrested for.

And then if you if you like it, get the book what I was arrested for. But right now you can just go watch it on YouTube for free. Very little commitment. Look up, Keith Lowell old gents and what I was arrested for. And if you don't want to watch it with commercials, because YouTube puts commercials on it, you can go to Angerilla Records and buy it. And it's cheap. I might even still be at like pay what you want. Yeah, you know, in the holidays are coming and stocking stoppers. Well, they're not, they're not physical copy of it.

So I don't know what you put in stocking. We put like it. You are code. Just put it in there. You know, what people like during holidays have to do more work. Or you could put it up on your phone. A Thanksgiving when you're sitting next to that one uncle. And then I have older. There you have.

I still think cats made a rabbit. Holds up. There's some really good stuff on there. You can watch. Don't you have Elfquest as well? No, Elforgi. Elforgi. With original cover art done by Wendy Biming of Elfquest. Because I shared with her and her husband the story of when I masturbated to their comic. No, you see Ed's eyes perked up until that moment. And then he almost threw up in his mouth. You know, I do know that my step-as-so at 17, right?

Orgy? No. Oh, episode. No, my friend. It is beautiful. Yeah. And I didn't have a lock on my door. My dad used to come in my room to play my Nintendo. Adam, I'm trying to drop the rolls here.

So that's my least, the incompetent record label owner hates that I say this, but I'm sorry, I'm honest. It's my least favorite of my specials material, but it was just not a good night. Yeah. That happens. Oh, cool. I know Ed's going to turn into a pumpkin soon. So, uh, Keith, it was a joy to have you on. Uh, I already took so long. Oh, oh, no, it's a pump consumed. So, Keith, it was a joy to have you on. Where did it look so long? Oh, oh, no, it's a good episode. Good

length. Oh, you mean since we started the podcast. Well, you wanted to make sure that we were reliable and having us put out. Not only episode first, big sunset. Also, there's, yeah, that's probably. Yeah, probably think. Yeah, but there's yeah, that's probably yeah probably think Yeah, but if this ever go on bright and shadow day night If you know, it's ever doing anything bad right right genius. We're not well. I mean, we're not I mean, you know Well, I wouldn't have named me an open for me, but he could never figure out that same. I

Yeah, well, there's that but you could never figure out that same name. Yeah, well, there's that. So, well, I will say this, ladies and gentlemen, that has been Keith Lowell Jensen, and we are a geek history of time. And for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blalock, and until next time, keep rolling 20s. time, keep rolling 20s.