A Geek History of Time - Episode 299 - Shogun Way Back Then, Then, and Now Part II

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

See, people when they click on this, they'll see the title, so they'll be like, poor Ed. What does that even fucking mean? However, because it's England, that's largely ignored and unstudied. I really wished for the sake of my sense of moral righteousness that I could get away with saying no. He had a goddamn ancestral home and a noble title until Germany became a republic. You know, none of this highfalutin, you know, critical role stuff. So they chewed through my favorite shit.

No, I'm not helping them. I'm gonna say that you're getting into another kind of, you know, Mediterranean, or psyche archetype kind of thing. Makes sense. Also trade winds are a thing. Ha ha, just serious. Like, no, he really has a mad on him. Yeah, we'll go upon a tangent. As we keep doing.

Like, yeah, this is how we fill time. Yeah. This is a Geek History of Time. Where we connect nerdery to the mind. And we connect the mind to the mind. And we connect the mind to the mind. And we connect the mind to the mind. This is a geek history of time. Where we connect nerdery to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock.

I'm a world history teacher here in Northern California. And earlier this evening, my son let me know that he, I guess, has gotten bored with the character he's been playing in the Pathfinder game that we play once a month. And he wants to go from playing a cat person to being a Dragonborn. And I don't even know if dragonborn are part of Pathfinder first edition rules. And I also don't know if our game master would be okay with with that happening mid campaign. So I had to let him know, okay, look, you know at the end of the adventure we're in right now We can check with Tim our GM

You know if he's okay with making that change and if he is then I've got a I mean I've got to find out whether whether we can do dragonborn in that game or not And my my son is of an age where when you say maybe There's like this assumption that maybe is gonna turn into yes And I You know had to say to him a few times. I You know understand this is not this is not a thing. I can promise you

But we can ask yay. All right, okay So, I mean I'm pretty sure that as long as the rule set exists it's it's not gonna be a problem because you know, Tim is pretty chill about that stuff, but I Now need to go to and when we get in recording I've got to go to the pathfinder srd and like okay What what can I do for a dragonborn in this game? So? Yeah, so that's that's where that's that's what I've got going on. How about you? Well, I'm Damian Harmony I'm a US history teacher up here in Northern, California

and I Have gotten to the point with my kids where dinner is such a moving target in terms of like we don't have to eat the same four things every week kind of thing that I can, I think I've told you about my sharp fruitery boards where I don't have the energy, I just, whatever fruit is there.

But now it's to the point where I'm like, hey, you guys cool if I do a simple dinner, does somebody else wanna pick up and start cooking? And like, sometimes they're like, no, I'll make something, it's fine. Like, I'm living with roommates. At this point, it's pretty cool. Like-

And it doesn't suck. Yeah, you can manage to engineer it to be a pretty good situation for yourself there. Yes. And what I love is that I have always known that their teenage years would be my favorite years. And I also knew that in order to get to those years being my favorite years,

I would have to put in a lot of work so they'd be the kind of teenagers I would want to be around. Yeah. You got to lay the groundwork for that. Yes. Um, and, uh, just by way of comparison, their mother was really good with babies and I was not. Yeah. And, and after they be, after they stopped being babies, he was at a loss and I started at a loss. So to me, there was no drop off.

Like there was, it's just like, no. It's just been a steady, steady climb. Yeah, well, it's just been shallow water that I'm trying not to drown in, really. Okay, fair, all right, that works. And then it's like, and now I'm where I'm supposed to be. And so I always said that she bought a car, I bought a house, in terms of our expertise.

Yeah, yeah. Because I knew I'd be bad at most of it. So I was like, well, I'm gonna be bad jumping in with both feet though. And hopefully my enthusiasm will make up for the lack of quality. And I dare say it has. So, you know, and-

It makes up for a lot. It does, for sure. It does, speaking of making children. That's a whole different level of a metaphor there. So, the larger point here is that I've never had them at an age where I was like, oh, this is so precious, I want to slow it down or I want to freeze time here. I've always enjoyed whatever phase they were in and I was always grateful to be done with it and on to the next one. Yeah, both things were true. Yeah, I am now at the point where I'm like,

can we can we slow down this album to like, can we can we hang here for a while? Yeah, can we can we do this at 1 eighth speed? Because this is fucking cool. And it's just the little things. I mean, it really is the little things of just like, we're all kind of just democratically making choices. And, you know, I'm still guardrails. I'm still like, hey, make sure you get this thing covered or you take care of this thing. But how you go about doing it Let me know if you need help, you know that yeah thing and maybe there's an after-action report like hey Here's a better way to have done that. Yeah, but it's it's wonderful. Well good. I love that for you, man

Yeah, that's awesome. Do you have a favorite age for for kids and Joe? I mean Obviously your middle school teacher, but no one wishes that on anybody. But like, have you like found an age with your son where you're like, oh, man, I'm bummed that we that that's gone. Like, have you gotten there yet? I miss three and four. Yes, I don't miss any. I miss well, you know, I enjoy the fuck out of it.

And the thing is, yeah. Well, the thing is, I am I am. I love where he is now. Like, you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to give up where he is now to go back to it. But there was. I mean mean Peter Parker loves Mary Jane But he was in love with Gwen yeah, you know yeah, that's okay. Yeah

Yeah, three three and four was when he had Got to the point where he was talking so we could we could have conversations and there was he was still little sure and there's just there's now he's he's turning into into a a a boy mm-hmm you know where you know when he was when he was, when he was littler, I don't know, there's, there's, there's just something about the, the way that he interacts and the way he carries himself that is, that is fascinating now, but there's a quality that has changed. Sure. but there's a quality that has changed.

Sure. That I miss the, he has started losing his natural wonderment at everything. And it still shows up and it's awesome when it's there. And he's still starts dancing spontaneously and he still does all those kinds of things that are just awesome. But he doesn't he doesn't do it as often and he's starting to think about the perception of other people. I think is part of it and and you prefer the devil may care you prefer. Yeah Yeah, absolutely. No guile. I yeah, I am the main character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

So I hope do you find another age that you end up missing too? Oh, yeah. Well, I'm gonna miss here's the deal I'm gonna miss all of them. I'm not missing any of them like I really not and it's not that I regret them It's not anything like that. I mean, you've known me this whole time. Oh yeah. Fucking love being a dad. Like, every step of the way, I found so much joy in all of it.

But this will be the time that I will miss. It's really cool. Okay, yeah, I can see that. I can see that. So, and different people have different different Eras of life that they enjoy my partner. She actually has a similar window that you have of like Yeah, that three to five year old man. She missed it. You know, she misses that Yeah, because like there's there is that wonder there's this squealing joy

You know, oh Just remembering it like like even thinking about it right now. I'm smiling sitting here. It's just remembering the look the looks on his face. You know, his the first year that he was that he really understood Christmas. Sure. Like, I wish I could I could inject that into my veins. Oh my god yeah and I mean it's still awesome and still wonderful and I'm gonna I'm gonna cherish every Christmas with you no matter what age it is but it hits different and that's perfectly okay. Yeah I maybe this is gonna sound so insulting to the rest of the world. Maybe the reason that I'm enjoying what I'm enjoying so much is because I'm funny. And so my kids, they laugh just as hard at the shit that I tell them now as My son laughed at the word australopithecus when he was three There you are as my daughter laughed at playing that there was a gecko on the ceiling. Um

They were squealing with delight and I can still get them to fucking pop now because I'm hilarious And maybe that's what you're okay. Okay, but but well Yes, I mean one of us is a stand-up comic, so, like, you know. But the thing is, though, I don't have to deal with my son looking at me and going, you goddamn asshole. That's so fun though. Oh my God, it's so good. And the thing is the way your family operates.

Or getting the kind of looks that I have witnessed your daughter getting you. Oh, it's so fun. Like I have firsthand seen your daughter just looking at you like if it looks good, kill you motherfucker. You son of a bitch. Well, and the way your family operates respect outward shows of respect matter a lot more to you guys Yeah, they do and that's fine. Um, I couldn't give a shit less. Yeah You know, you are you are an iconoclast and you are raising iconoclasts And so like that vibe is one you're like

raising iconoclasts and so like that vibe is one you're like yeah oh you get it yeah not only do you get it but i win yeah yeah i win because you're laughing as hard as you can and you hate that and i win yeah oh it's so fun but yeah yeah just yeah it. So I love that for you, man. Yeah so All right. So when last we left, um, yeah his name was it was Takiyoki no hockey It wasn't Takatomi it was That's the office building. Sean Clayne has his whole thing.

Takehime. Takehime. And his first name was Maeda Roma? Well, his family name, Matsudaira. Matsudaira. He was about to tell... Yeah. So, clarification.

Oh, he took his adult name too. Yes. So, so... Bill. Just... Yes, yeah. No, adult name too. Yes. So so just yes. Yeah, no, Bob, actually, but that's not no for anybody who is not familiar with naming conventions. I didn't mention this last time in in Japanese culture as in many East Asian cultures. I don't want to say all, but everyone I can think of off the top of my head. Family name comes before personal name. Right. So he is Matsudaira Motoyasu at this point.

That's his adult name. And he's and he's leading samurai from the Matsudaira clan clan who have been basically put out on retainer or on loan to the Itsuyama? No. Close. Yeah. Imagawa. Imagawa.

They've been put on loan because he's attacking an Oda castle. Oda is the one that's easy to remember because it's yes letters. It's only two syllables. Yes. Yeah, so he's returning to Oda Yes, yes We're going back to Oda to Oda so in this is 1558. He's now 16 years old So he's called a junior in high school, right? Yeah. Yeah. And this is like his, this is his first trial by fire. Right. He is now, he's been given all of the physical training and all of the, you know, classroom

education effectively, tutoring that he can get So this this is his first Butterbar lieutenant, you know mission in the field, right and As far as we can tell Motoyasu clearly paid attention when when he was getting all this education he he Probably at least in part because up to this point just as a reminder for everybody he has never been in control of his own fate right he has he has been a hostage since he was five years old right first with the Oda who kidnapped him and then with Ima Gawa's hostage he was supposed to be in the first place. Right. And so...

I bet he missed being three. He probably did. And so he's constantly lived with this level of uncertainty. He's constantly been in this position of being, and he still is at this point, in this position of being somebody else's pawn. Yeah. And I want to highlight two twin things that are going on.

One, when you are a hostage of a family that wants to keep your family under control, they have to treat you nice-ish, because if they go too far, they've lost the power that having you hostage gives them. Yes. And at the so so there's gonna be some Stockholm shit going on there by nature because that's otherwise why are you having some kids hostage if you're not gonna raise them to be your allies later. Right. At the same time there is a sword

hanging over your head your whole fucking life. Like if they go too far, they will go all the way because it's easier to cut their losses. So it's a really odd place to be emotionally. And by the way, that was true of Vlad of the Impaler. I talked about this last time. And certainly part of what led to his brutality yeah I mean in his case it turned into you know like psychopathy yeah he was a sadist now in in his specific case we we have reason to believe that he was actually abused by his captors, which like

we could talk about the effect of that kind of trauma. Well, and we've talked about thresholds of violence in the past as well. And so it's one of those, if you grow up, like, I mean, you wouldn't think anything of bloodletting if you lived in an Aztec culture, considering what people did for fun. You wouldn't necessarily think anything of that kind of brutality to some extent, living in Wallachia, because that part of the world was a constant crossroads of people

being really fucking beheading. Awful. Yeah. Being awful to each other. Yeah. Yeah. So, but in Japan, there's the, like you said, there is the paper walls, there is the politeness aspect, there is the subtle.

There's Confucianism, there's Buddhism, there's the native traditions of Shinto and all of the ideas that go along with that. So, yeah, there's a lot of modern influences there. Yeah, there's a lot going on there. Right. Oh, yeah. But so but still, you still have like this. It's like the Irish coffee of being raised, you know, like you don't know where your nerves should be, you know, yeah Yeah, how much of it is whiskey and how much of it is coffee and right and Like the whipped cream is there to take the edge off right? Yeah, you know

So can't be easy and now you're going to attack the family of the people who kidnapped you first Yeah way to being hostaged right? They also were pretty cool to you Cool enough to you. Yeah So, you know, it's like you said your fate is not your own but I mean that's true of most people at that time But the extra aspect of death could come right now. Yeah. Yeah, there there was always there was always uncertainty And and the other and the other thing That's that's part of that cocktail that I think is

important to keep in mind as we go through this story is he was valuable to the Imigawa But there was always the reminder that he was lesser. Yeah, you're a valuable commodity. It doesn't mean that you're revered. Right. And there is, there is this, I don't want to say it's a folk tradition, but there is a strand of the story for Motoyasu that gets told of like, Yoshimoto's, Imagawa Yoshimoto's son, pushing him around and bullying him and being a dick because, you know, he

was, because his father died when he was nine. And so, you know, orphan boy kind of stuff. And, you know, and, and, you know, him having to put up with that and all of that kind of stuff. So there's, there's also, there's also some of that going on. So it's emotionally it's it's there's a lot of different strands going on all at once. So now he's 16 years old and he's being sent off to lead this attack on Terapeh Castle. Soterios Johnson Terapeh. Okay. Aaron Ross And this is in Oda territory. Now the Lord of Tera Terabe had been a retainer of Imigawa But he had switched sides and defected to Oda so Motoyasu is being sent to punish him

Okay, and who's this fellow? Yes, yes, his name is kind of unimportant to the narrative, okay, okay, so Motoyasu led the attack in person. Captured the outer defenses. And then seeing that actually assaulting the castle and trying to take it by force was going to be really costly. OK, he made the call and this guy's also

married to a Retainer retainer married into the orbit of So it's in their best interest that he stay alive too because that's no issue right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay So okay, so he's leading the siege of so he leads the attack he he Yeah, he leads the attack on the castle and it was the role even though we're moving into a period of Attacks by you know mass foot soldier infantry and what-have-you sure it was still

the custom and the expectation that samurai of rank would work to distinguish themselves by going out in front of the main force and saying, I am Matsudaira Motoyasu, heir to Ruler. You know, come and fight me if you dare. Right. You know, and these kinds of challenges and somebody would then respond with, I am so-and-so's son of so-and-so. You know, and then they would fight one-on-one. And he did that and acquitted himself.

He won. You know, did enough to show. Okay. Look guys I know you haven't seen me before but Here, I know what i'm doing. I I am one of you i've got cred, right? and uh So in the process of of working to take the castle they capture the outer defenses But then he realizes, uh, you know, he doesn't have time because of other stuff going on strategically. He doesn't have enough time to engage in a siege

to reduce the fortress and take it the slow way. And he can probably take the fortress by force. But it's going to be really expensive. He's going to lose. Eric victory, an unacceptable number of his men. Right. So he gives the order to use fire arrows, burns the place down and withdraws. So almost scorched earth. Well, yeah, yeah, it's, it's. Yeah.

I mean, normally I see scorched earthth as a defensive tactic of the people being invaded. But yes, he. And that's why I say almost. Yeah. The idea in this case is if, if Oda has the fortress, it is an encroachment into our territory. Right. They have a defensible position inside our territory. Right. Ideally, we would capture it and take it back. But if we can't capture it and take it back, we deny them control of the resource by destroying it. Right. Yeah. We save the region. Yeah., and and so he makes that he makes that calculation and then and you know burns it goes back and Imigawa gives him a thumbs up says alright you you did you did what I wanted you to do

I needed that guy to be made an example of and I'm sure Oda didn't have that castle good work. Okay, okay so then As part of the same campaign There's still the the attack on to rob. This is this so to rob a was part of a larger campaign by Imago. Okay, okay So then he me go was tell Yoshimoto Imago Yoshimoto tells him We have this frontier fort at a place called Odaka. Okay. We need to resupply it.

We need you to get stuff to it because right now it's surrounded on three sides by Oda forces. There's other forts in the area that are, that are controlled by Oda. We have this one and it's way out on the edge of our area of control. Right. I need you to get supplies to this garrison So that we can hold out if this collapses then if this collapses our front is gonna be weak and we're gonna have problems Okay, so again the challenge was and I had gotten numbers wrong a second ago

This was the only fort out of five in the territory That had stayed in Imigawa hands. So getting a supply convoy to it is going to be tricky. Sure. So Motoyasu remembering his son, Sue, remembering his classical education and military strategy, right, split his forces, which is risky, but yeah, I mean that's he you know there's there's there's you know economy of force and You know concentration of force there are you know things you got to keep in mind. Yeah, and so he sent Portions of his force to make diversionary attacks on two of the other forts Okay, so sends these forces off to, you know, make noise, shoot

arrows and draw attention skirmish over there and over there. Yeah, yeah. Oda forces saw these two attacks happening, move to reinforce those forts. And then he sent his main force under the cover of all that like, OK, this area is now lightly defended and Sun Tzu tells us they'll likely think that this is just another skirmish point not the convoy right yeah and and now this is kind of an empty spot in their line it's a vacuity and Sun Tzu says attack evacuity so now we're gonna

throw the main force into this right tells the other two forces all right you've hit now fade and So he gets the supplies into Odaka his diversionary forces fall back and he succeeds at achieving this goal against all expectation So now he's again. He's 16. This is a few months after after to Robby's now. He's somewhere 16 17 This is still 15 58 or so. This is now we're getting a 15 59. Okay now Do they have campaign seasons or was it your way did okay? They did so I use summertime

Someone to catch fire summertime to yeah summertime sense too. Yeah, summertime into fall. Okay, got it. Because once the rains really started and the temperature dropped, he hold up. Right. So he's a kid, right? He's 16, 17 years old. But now he's had two battles, two engagements in which he's been the different types too. Yes. He's showing his similitude here. Yes. Yeah. Um, and he's won both times by applying cunning use of misdirection and understanding and

being able to see his moment. Right. Picture spot. Yeah. Yeah. and being able to see his moment. Right. Pick your spot. And yeah, yeah. Like, like being able to kind of weigh the situation and take your shot at the right moment. Right. Um, and, and keeping your eye, this is the really big one is he, he's able to keep his eye on the main objective.

Right. To Robby is what is my goal? Right. My goal is that, deny the main objective. Right. Turabeh is what is my goal. Right. Deny them that space. Deny them that castle. Right. OK. Capturing it is going to cost me too much,

but I just need to deny them it. So we're going to burn it to the ground. So he's showing imagination, initiative, and excellence. Yeah. And yeah. So, and these are... I bet they missed the reins down in Turabe. All right, I'll grant it. All right, okay. I'll allow it.

Now, all of these are strategies that we're going to see him using throughout his career. Okay. And we have... So he stays as like a major leader then, not just a badass samurai. Oh yeah. Okay, cool We have we have corroboration of these accomplishments through contemporary documents. So this isn't just later accounts So there's a touch of There's a little bit of puffery going on in descriptions, but we can reliably assert that it's rooted in

Him being a genuinely gifted strategist even at a young age, okay, and Now that we're talking about his competence. Mm-hmm. I need to shift for a moment You'd shift the focus to talk a little bit about his overlord even Gawa Yoshimoto. The guy who married him off to the guy who he answers to. Right. And the one who gave him his own. Yes. Yes. Who said, I am now giving you your birthright.

Okay. So Yoshimoto, the Imigawa clan had a very large, very well equipped and very skillfully led army. As long as Yoshimoto himself wasn't in direct command. Was not. Was not. Okay. Direct command. Okay. So Yosh command. Okay. So Yoshimoto has the charisma and the bloodline and the legitimacy.

And the bloodline and the legitimacy. But he doesn't have the tactics. Yeah. Strategically he was competent. Okay. Just not tactically. Tactically he's regarded as something of a flailing moron. Okay.

So, so long as he's not leading the battle he's not gonna die Yeah, so so long as so long as he is the one telling his generals go here do this thing go here Do this thing like big picture stuff? He's able to see what needs to happen and he can give other people to the orders to do things and he does give them The autonomy to have an imagination. So this is yes, okay But if he's in direct command in the field It does give them the autonomy to have an imagination. So this is, yeah. Yes. Okay. But if he's in direct command in the field... Fucks it up. Their, their win-loss record drops.

Okay. Their, their ratio goes, goes to shit. Good manager, bad pitcher. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. And so in 1560, so later, is like the next campaign season, okay

He decides that it's time He he has now Gotten himself a large enough army enough followers and enough momentum and they have guns now, right and everybody has guns now Okay, okay He has he has enough enough material, he has enough soldiers, and now is the time for him to march on Kyoto to seize power. And Kyoto is the capital of the country. Is the capital.

Okay. So this is... And he, the previous year, denied them a foothold and reinforced his own foothold so he's pushed the lines so I yeah okay this makes and what we've been talking about is Motoyasu's jobs is only part of a larger wider campaign or other other Imigawa commanders doing other stuff so he's he's on he's on a little bit of a role and he is himself the Imigawa family are descendants of the Minamoto uh-huh so he

is he is in a position to make a claim for the Shogunate and he decides okay this is now this is change decides this is my main chance you know everything everything is lined up you know the other thing of seeing your moment yes you go right and you know his other his other peers like being the other guys who were at his level of scale in terms of Daimyo would be guys like Takeda Shigen and Uesugi Kenshin. It's like they're busy feuding against each other. You know, I don't need to worry about either one of them coming at me. And if I can Shogun it up, then I can consolidate power and then none of them can stand against me because we can.

Okay. Yeah, no, he's Okay, he's so This is sure he's good. Yeah. Yeah, and and does his legitimacy is potential Shogun Rest on he has to be the one to lead them It helps an awful lot, okay, okay Yeah, he's shooting a shot being the guy who shows up and marches into the city of Kyoto Helps an awful lot. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah Being the guy who shows up and marches into the city of Kyoto is is part of the formula Okay. Yes So he decides now is the time we're marshaling. We're marshaling everybody bring bring the whole army together

Okay, you know give the big rousing yo kind of speech to everybody get everybody fired up and off we go and is kyoto held by the oda clan no okay kyoto is is i was imperial it's the effect okay yeah it's it's it's it's the ashikaga but they're they don't really have much power less but you don't, you don't go deposing them unless you really fucking... Unless you are in a position to do it and hold on to it. Right. Because the moment you do it, somebody else is going to use the Ashikaga family as an excuse to come after you. So you've got to have your ducks in a row.

So it's a rare thing that people yes Yes, and even rare still that they succeed and he's like, this is my moment. This is okay I am I am I am the biggest dog in the pack right now. I'm gonna go for it, right? so The path as far as he could figure the path look clear. He didn't have any large major kind of kind of peers or really near peers in his way So he mustered his army and mustered his forces and he marched with a massive army out of his territory in Imigawa For Kyoto, okay now

this march Took them through Mikawa province, which is Matsudaira's territory, which is friendly That's like right right he is a suzerain over them. Yeah, so that's that's no big deal Yeah, but then it takes him into Oda territory Well, that's gonna be a problem, but they've been pushing on them so yes Did he by any chance send his send? Motoyasu yes Yes, he said him to like do skirmishy stuff

Well, he sent he told Motoyasu. I need you to go to Maruna fortress specific fortress We need to capture that we need that to be friendly because when we march past it If they hold it we're gonna go we're gonna march past it and then they're gonna be in our rear And it's gonna cause all kind of problems logistically so we need you you go capture that castle now Was it an actual tactical need or was it more of they need to think it's a tactical need? So that's why I'm sending you kind of like sending Patton all over the place

That well it was a combination of two things no one capturing a fortress was important, okay to Matsudaira and you know Motoyasu is is Tsudaira and, you know, Motoyasu is, is there, they're useful, right? We, we, we, we want to have them, we, we need their forces, you know, but we don't want them to be part of the group that marches into Kyoto because we need to keep them, we need to keep them. They need to keep them under control. We don't we don't need Motoyasu being part of this because their family is also descended from Minamoto and you know that this this this could lead to somebody getting Yeah. Okay. So it's so it's it's strategically it's it's strategically necessary and politically convenient that'll kind of keep him out of the way. You know, so take this castle, hold this castle while we go off and you know, seize the main trophy. Okay. And the castle's name again was Maroney. Maroney fortress. Okay. So Motoyasu heads off and he he accomplished like you know now he's three for three Sure captures the fortress and he's holding on to it like he's like he's been ordered because he's not really in a position to say no

in this moment But like I said this was a way for Yoshimoto to sideline him and that Ended up saving Motoyasu's life. So it's a failed attempt. Well, so, so Imigawa marches into Oda territory. They meet kind of kind of half-hearted scattered resistance and you know, they're victorious over over the Oda forces that get sent their way. Okay. And they decide that they're going to stop to rest.

Make camp on June 12. Near the village of okay, Hazama. Okay, at the bottom of a valley that was notoriously kind of foggy and misty. And that's part of the reasons called okay, Hazama is is misty is part of its name in Japanese. Okay Like I said, they'd only met scattered resistance on their march up to that point and they knew that they outnumbered Oda's army 10 to 1 Like they had all Wow, okay all Okay. And so Yoshimoto got complacent. The day was a very hot one. Okay.

Many of the Imigawa troops removed their armor. Oh. They had kicked the shit out of the Oda forces that they'd met. They were in a celebratory mood. Right. Some of them, you know, cracked open the sake. Sure. mood right some of them you know cracked open the sake sure and their party mood was only slightly diminished by the arrival of a thunderstorm that dropped

heavy rain on them in that afternoon so the Oda forces were they deliberately sandbagging that no okay they were they were getting outnumbered. Okay bad number So in the mid-afternoon under the cover of that rainstorm Oda Nobunaga Ordered a direct assault by his force of two thousand men on the camp That's the guy who knew our Guy as a kid. So he's 19. He's 19, okay.

And at this point he has inherited Oda from his father, Oda Nobuhide. Oh, okay, okay. So he is now, he is now So he's about to free Matsuyoto. Motoyasu. Motoyasu, fucking, okay. So he, according to the stories, this is this is awesome. So

Odonobunaga is is just a fucking badass like I he's called the demon for a reason. Yeah. Um, some accounts indicate that he may have suffered from uh, mania because there there are stories or or you know, there's all kinds of stories that like explain his behavior. But he had, he was, he really was the, the, no, I have no chill Gryffindor. Right. You know, he was the bonsai. He, yeah. Okay. And he, you know, heard from his troops that, you know, Imagawa has this massive army. They've defeated the skirmishers that we've sent to try to slow them down. They've just, you know, trot over everybody. They're gonna, they're coming for us.

And they know that we don't have enough men to hold out. And some of his highest ranking retainers called on him, we've got to fall back, we've got to go to this castle in the hills and get out of the way. And he listened to all of them. And he apparently stood up and he quoted or he actually composed a very short poem in the moment saying that a man is only given 70 years. And you know now and effectively now is the time to strike right there is no there is no retreat there is no like if we retreat we die no retreat no surrender yeah yeah and so he maneuvered under under cover of the thunderstorm so he

had his man yeah he really did okay I wish I wish I had written down a quote but I was trying to focus on the Motoyasu sure but so he he he moved his men up Undercover of the noise of the rainstorm. Okay, and then Just told everybody balls to the wall. All right, you know fuck it. We ball like charge now on the other side, right? Yeah Yeah, and with the rain and the boisterous conditions that were already in the camp Mm-hmm Yoshimoto at first thought that the sounds of battle were his own troops getting drunk and fighting amongst themselves Under prepared yeah So the story is he got up from his campstool to step out of his tent to admonish his men

Uh-huh and an Oda samurai rushed in, identified, like just said, my name is so and so, didn't wait for response, stabbed him in the chest with a spear and cut his head off. Just taken completely by surprise. Like, you know, died with the, oh, you know, look of shock on his face. Right. Right. And, um, yeah, according to the stories that have come down, he was half armored. Like he, he, he, he hadn't like, this was not, this was not at all what anybody had expected because again, no, when Naga had just said there, if said there if we surrender we die or if we fall back we retreat we die. No, if if if we're if we're dead either way then you know this this is our chance for survival and the Imigawa forces were leadled by surprise by

the ferocity of the Oda attack and they were leaderless now. Yeah. I mean, literally decapitated the leadership. Yes. Um, Imigawa army fell back in disarray and Oda Nobunaga leapt from near obscurity to the top of the list of important Daimyo. Yeah.

Like instantly. Ready to the top of the list of important daimyo. Yeah, like instantly And I said this already but in my notes here it says it's tempting here to get sidetracked into talking about Oda Nobunaga because he's a fascinating character Yeah, but I'm but I'm trying to focus on Motoyasu and I get it. I'm target I wanted to talk about Shawn Michaels a lot more than I did. Yeah Exactly. Yeah, okay. So so so real quick. Yeah, this means that effectively the guy in charge of The IMA gawa clan is done Yeah, that means that all of his

leadership cast will either be fighting amongst themselves or lacking a clear direction or whatever has an error he has a survivor doesn't have an air okay so there's there's there's a clear line of succession involved but we'll get it there's still a transition time there's still a transition and I'm just wondering what this means for our boy Motoyasu Motoyasu Gonna get us he was he was elsewhere. So Mm-hmm, which means he still has a very strong force and the latest win

And he could and take over the Imigawa clan or he can finally be like, alright guys I'm out of here and Go back to his own clan Kind of okay So so in a in in an event that will will happen more than once in his career Motoyasu manages to be in a relatively secure position when something dramatic happens that upends the apple cart for everybody. He's Augustus.

This is this is this is not the last time this is going to happen. Sick in his tent. A little bit and so At at one fell swoop No, bud Aga has removed one of the major players from the board. Yeah, okay and this frees Motoyasu to assert his independence as Soon as he hears as soon as he hears that Yoshimoto is dead He moved to take possession of his ancestral thief Which he had not been allowed to move in on he'd been allowed to visit

but he had not been allowed to take possession of it took possession of his ancestral castle at Okazaki and Then he made a secret alliance with Oda. Oh Now on paper now he's still married officially Yeah, he's still he's still married into the Ima Gala orbit and right on the surface outwardly he's still allied to Ima Gala, but Like he's he's reached out to Oda and said yeah, you know we're we're we're working together I'm yeah, I like the cut of your jib like you know me Kind of a little bit. Yeah, you know

and so a year later um He managed to rescue uh his son and his wife from Iwagawa control He he essentially

uh openly, uh control. He essentially openly turned on Imigawa, captured one set of fortresses that included a couple of very important hostages of members of the Imigawa clan. And he said, I will trade you your grandmother for my wife and my son, basically. Wow. For my wife and my son basically Wow Okay, and traded him over and at that point his alliance with Oda became public And he was now allied with the man who would become the first of Japan's recognized unifiers, right? So out of this childhood full of uncertainty He has now made this choice to, to switch his Alliance, to assert his independence and to seize the opportunity to, to

gain control of, to gain real meaningful control of His own resources in his own his own territory right because at the end of the day he is a Fuck what's his name is his clan name? Matsudaira Matsudaira He is a much dire. Yes, and and so in many ways he's been just biding his time to get back to that. Yes. Like there is an understanding of that. Okay. Yeah.

So he's not going to get censured by everyone else at like the warlord meetings or anything like that. Oh no. No. Because this is how business is done. Right. You know, at this point this is like, oh no man, you had your opportunity, you're seizing it. That's what we all do. Get Kokojo. Right. You know, at this point, this is like, Oh, no, man, you had your opportunity, you're seizing it. That's what we all do. Gecko Kujo. Right. You know, like, like,

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 25,000 man army, right, you know and like

Yeah, so literally I take your head So does he end up marrying like any of like his kid that he just rescued does he end up marrying him to somebody? an Oda's family well We get now to the year 1563. So my understanding of Rome is really helping here year 1563. So my understanding of Rome is really helping here. It really is. Because when I say that dynastic politics have always worked this way.

Yes. And and and by the way, when I say that feudalism has always worked this way. Yeah. Also. Yeah. So 1563, Motoyasu does two important things. First First he marries off his oldest son, okay He has now his heir. Yeah number one son By this time also you met in the last episode you mentioned a concubinage. Mm-hmm Motoyasu at this point has now had two other sons via concubines, which is a point of stress with his first wife, because according to the stories, she was, uh, uh, she, she felt very profoundly slighted, which like,

I mean, you know, naturally, but also of social conventions, social conventions of the society being what they were, the way her being slided, her feeling slided gets characterized as her being kind of a high maintenance, kind of like, oh, well, you know, come on. At the same time though, her security in life is tied to the legitimacy of her heirs. though her security in life is tied to legitimacy of her heirs. And if he gets outnumbered by others, she just saw a dude's grandma get bargained thinking down the road. Like, I totally, there's, there's all kinds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, also keep in mind, uh, what I mentioned when we first talked about her

She came from a family that had a very very high courtly Ceremonial rank right so there's there's a certain amount of you know how dare you how dare you give you know? We'll play to me demean me by yeah Like you know what you know who the hell are you to go stepping out on me like right you realize like could have at least washed it off Look at all this yeah, you know so there's there's a bunch of factors involved sure so anyway, okay So he's married off his first marriage office his oldest son his son by his first wife uh-huh right to Nobunaga's daughter oh So we're not even talking orbits. We're talking direct. So by doing that, he's legitimizing himself too, though.

Like he's being like, hey, fellow equal warlord guy to the guy who is fucking legendary now. Yeah. Okay. Who who who is now if if I were focusing on on no banaga? I would be talking about how he has gone on a tear. Yeah, he's the Oda type Nice nice. Yeah And so secondly in 1563 what Motoyasu does is he decides he's gonna change his first name again Do you get to do this like is this like Now he's independent the thing is his first Adult name Motoyasu. Oh, it's still kind of

Was granted to him as part of his again Paco ceremony by Imigawa so Cutting all ties yeah yeah like let me guess what his new name is Manicus what I say no no his name is now Ieyasu that's the same name as that Tokugawa guy yeah it is Wait okay, wait wait wait because because because it's gonna be a few more years because he's before he's able to Get the legitimacy to change his family name he Okay Okay, I mean it was a little on the nose, but okay.

Yeah. So, so he changes his name to Ieyasu. So Matsudaira Ieyasu. Matsudaira Ieyasu. And so he has now openly, openly and solidly aligned himself with Oda. Does this piss anybody off to the point of he and Oda getting to combine and smack people down? Well, yes and no. Okay. What happens is he winds up having a situation where members of his extended family, because during- during the Imigawa side of his well

No within Matsudaira Oh within within the Matsudaira clan got it during the time that they were Under the control of Matsudaira there were not much under the control of Imigawa There were members of his own clan who had gained territory and who had gained recognition, prestige, had married into other vassal families of Imigawa. And so they were Imigawa loyalists. They were a faction that were not happy with him making this new alliance with Oda and breaking off with Imagawa. So he has there's a rebellion within his own family. And at the same time, in Mikawa province, he faced an uprising by the Ikko Iki. Now, the extended family infight fighting stuff was troublesome, but that was that's par for the course

That's like if you're a warlord occasionally your cousins are gonna be like hey You know what fuck you and you're gonna have to fight him right okay? No that the eco icky they are a matrilineal line that attack you by attacking your bannermen So my grandma and your grandma. Your grandma. By the fire. Yeah, good one. No, the Ikko Ikki were something new, potent,

and really existentially threatening. To everyone or just him? To everybody. Nobunaga spent the good part of over a decade trying to crush them in his own territories. Oh wow, okay. And the deal is, they were an outgrowth of the Jodo Shinshu sect of Buddhism. Modernly it's referred to as Shin Buddhism and it is, the translation into English is it's called pure land Buddhism So we're talking like

militant monks Artly, okay. Yes, but militant monks had been a thing in Japan since before Buddhism Okay, Shinto Shinto monks had been had had militant arms and then Buddhism showed up and they adopted that and like okay So that's been a thing forever. What what's different about the eco Iki? To paint with a broad brush there were mutual defense leagues That included a shockingly egalitarian mix of peasants Buddhist clergy and temples and lower ranking samurai known as G's samurai lower ranking small-hold samurai like they're

you know individual three folding kind of samurai so a union I mean that's cool yeah kind of a socialist collective and anarcho syndicates to hook us and a call us commute I would compare it more to the the Swiss Kind of Canton system, okay, sure And so they're in there it's important to note they're also Not only are they motivated by These ideas of hey, we're a mutual defense society. They're they're fundamentally very heavily motivated by pure land

theology So, I mean, okay just anytime you got a group that's motivated by theology and they're militant like they're not good No wonder it took no Banuga. No no, but Aga no Banaga Nobunaga, no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no Japanese is essentially it means League or or group organization sure they refused to pay tithes to larger lords They insisted that their allegiance was not owed to any daimyo, but to the Buddha and Pure land doctrine taught that there was no means of escape from the cycle of rebirth Due to the fallen state of the world the world is such a shit show You're never going to achieve Nirvana right okay, which? There's a fatalism there

You know Buddhism 101 the goal is to let go of desires and and you know Quantum untangle yourself into becoming one with everything in the universe right sure sure well okay no fuck that sorry bad news the world is so fucked you're not going to be able to do that okay but but if you truly believe if you have faith, you can find a kind of salvation through the intervention of the Buddha at the moment of your death. Rather than being freed from reincarnation, rather than becoming one with the universe and dissolving into nothingness, you would go to the Pure Land. Your spirit would escape reincarnation and go to the pure land Your your your spirit would would escape reincarnation and go to the pure land Now to this day shin Buddhism is the most widely followed branch of Buddhism in Japan Okay, and now does any of that doctrine sound oddly familiar

Is that rhyme maybe with anything else? Yeah Is that rhyme maybe with anything else? Yeah Well Zen see the thing is Jodo Shinshu and Zen temples actually like fought So it's not logically they did not get along. Oh, so it's not it's not not any other kind of Buddhism It's not any other kind of Buddhism so so faith at the moment of your death Buddha right air quotes is going to reach down and

Pluck you out of this sinful world and write you into the pure place Yeah, where you're going to reside forever in the presence of the Buddha If you replace the Buddha with another name, right? Yeah Like I mean that did that sounded like as soon as you said I'm like, wow, they sound like Jesuits, but Yeah, I mean it sounds it sounds really really Christian. Yeah, it does and and like I'd have to look at the timeline as to when Shin Buddhism first got started to really like know whether there was there was cross-pollination there but my well and just my Understanding like the whole time that I've studied Japanese history my understanding is that this was

Actually something that the founder of Jodo Shinshu like came to as a set of conclusions on his own like so entirely possible but Jodo, okay. So, do you know what they call professional wrestling in Japan? No, who don't wrestle what they call professional wrestling in Japan no Uro Ressu well yeah okay so Uro Ressu right Jodo Shinshu Judeo Christian no like the root the root term I get what you're saying yeah yeah I get what you're saying but that's that's a that's it's a present ism that's that's like a backer in him kind of thing okay no it's it comes from and I gotta look it up but it comes from any chance like end up in a cave or on a mountain or something where he figured the shit out no okay no

so okay so not to my recollection so anyway so your life is no longer gonna get recycled because things are so shitty So it's just gonna be a long time getting from there to here. But then After that long time if you have faith of the heart You will be cast into a different enterprise Yes Nice Yes. Okay.

Nice. Thanks. So. Okay, so the, okay, it is really hard to fuck with people who think they're going to heaven if they fight hard enough. Yeah, pretty much. Like. What do you, you can't bribe them.

Yeah. Yeah. You can't really torture them. Like you. No, it's really, really, really hard to deal with them. Yeah. Unassailable. Yeah. Really really really hard to deal with them. Yeah, so unassailable. Yeah, and and the eco Icky were

Contemporarily and and in sources since they've been characterized as being fanatically devoted The temples around which the movement was centered to yeah Yeah, yeah, the the temples of the movement that the movement was centered around Achieved a really notable and threatening level of power. Okay, yeah. And they gave Ieyasu and Nobunaga and really like every other daimyo in the country, huge headaches. Like, you know, who will rid me of this turbulent priest? Like, turned up to 11. Sure, sure.

priest like turned up to 11 like you know sure and and this is partly as a military issue because they have Jizamurai and they have Sohei and they have peasants who they now have the resources to give guns to right so so militarily there's that but that's the threat really comes from these centers of control the temples and everything tended to lie along really important roads and trade routes and then the whole refusal to pay tithes or taxes was a really troubling threat to a dime use ability to raise the funds and maintain the resources to wage war well and Began not not just because of loss of income from them, but other people might be like well How come we can't do like they do? Yeah, what you do? Yeah, it's a dangerous set of ideas. You know

It's it's why why the nobles of Europe all looked at Jan Hus and went, oh, we gotta kill that guy. And these guys, the Iko Iki, they had access to guns too. Oh yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. Now whether the Portuguese were giving them guns specifically as a way to keep things destabilized. Sure. I don't know. But it's it's not a very hard leap to, you know, you know, if we just give everybody guns, we're gonna we're gonna prevent them

from you know Keeping us from from doing the rest of our shit, right? Right, right You know the Jesuits probably didn't like the idea of giving them guns because no no we need to save these people for Christianity These are devil worshipers You know this whole Buddha thing like no Anyway, I'm gonna get to the the Jesuits and the Portuguese in another episode. But so, so it also didn't help for for no banaga and Ieyasu. It really didn't help that the Iki seemed for whatever reason to wind up allying themselves with nearly every one of no banaga us rivals Like you know no but I could look over and be like what the fuck right really like

You know, yeah, why are you making me do this? Why are you making me do this, right? Does that include like former retainers of the in Megawa's or have they kind of faded out? No, well in Megawa still the have they kind of faded out? No. Well, Imigawa still the head of Imigawa is kind of the reputation of Yoshimoto's son is that he was kind of a feckless jackass. Okay. But Imigawa still has a big army and they still control a lot of territory and they, you know, have some issues with the eco Icky, but not to the extent that no one does. Everybody, everybody has this problem and everybody either decides we're just going to stamp these fuckers out. Like whatever we got to do, we've got to destroy this or they figure out a way to accommodate

them and you know, curry favor with the temples and be like you know so for Ieyasu the threat posed by the Iki became personal as an Iki force of warrior monks peasants turned gunners and some of his own samurai vassals decided they were going to attack Okazaki in 1564. That's his that's his home home base. Okay. And the the story behind that is he was traveling through his territory on a essentially kind of an inspection tour. And he wound up getting into a confrontation with the priests of a specific temple that was, you know, part of an Iki. And, and he asserted his feud the right to to turn him away. And and he didn't he didn't ask the right kind of permission, basically, to come onto the grounds. And so they used that as the pretext to come after him. These are the Ikoiki. The Iki. OK, Iki used that insult as a way to whip up their followers and come after him. These are the Iko-Iki? The Iki.

Okay. The Iki used that insult as a way to whip up their followers and come after him. Right. Okay. And so now they're attacking his home base, right? And so he turned around and found allies in the non-pure land warrior monks of another temple, the Daijuji. And he then with those allies mustered the rest of the rest of his forces and led his forces from the front lines in a battle referred to as Azuki Azuki, Zaka Okay, and he made a point now the thing is again part of part of what probably made him

incandescently angry is that some of his retainers like not just not just samurai, but like his retainers like not just not just samurai but like his Yeah, well, yeah think think like he's a duke and these are his barons right use to use a kind of a kind of a European equivalent had turned had turned coat because of their loyalties to Pure land Buddhism, okay, And so he made a point of conspicuously getting out in the front of the battle issuing personal challenges to men who had been his personal retainers. Oh shit. Okay. Like like full on playing the I am your liege Lord how very fucking dare you right Wow um like in the front of the battle

showing I am the man right right he was struck by bullets more than once during the battle but he escaped unwounded and the only way he knew he had been hit was after the battle was over his his attendants were taking his armor off and The and the bullets fell out Okay And so his calculated show of idealized daimyo bravery Actually convinced most shamed most of his vassals into returning to the fold and Over the course of the next year he consolidated his power over the province

Reached like like defeated one of the temples reached an accommodation with another one Managed to put down his intra clan conflict And and brought smaller lords under his wing. And so in this whole situation, again, this is another, like this battle is another example of him knowing when he had to make a big move. He needed to get out in front of it and he needed to use every tool at his disposal. He needed to put himself in that position and he needed to shame these men into coming back to him. Right. But also accepting them too. I mean, speaking of Caesar, right? Yeah.

So this is his power. This is what he does. Yes. Okay. So he's distinguishing himself. Meanwhile, Oda is solidifying things. Oda is operating on several fronts at once. He is continuously in the background working to grind the Iko Hiki in

his own territory into into rice meal. Right. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. And he is simultaneously with with his other generals, you know, taking over other territories and bringing other other other territories into the fold. See, this makes sense too, because like, you've had, what, like 120 years now of warring states? About, at this point it's about a hundred. Okay. But either way, you've had so many generations that people literally have been born, lived, and died, and just seen territories just switch back and forth to their expense. I could absolutely see a... I mean, honestly, this feels a little

Taiping rebellion. Quite honestly, just a lesser body count. But like, hey, follow me. This life sucks. Dying in the service of changing this will get your afterlife sorted out, and you won't have to come back a fucking again. You will not have to live through this particular veil of tears ever again. Yeah. And so I could absolutely see the peasants going like, all right, fuck it. I got nothing to lose because I done lost it all for three generations. Yeah. Like, like I said before, fuck it. We bought. Yeah. Like, okay. We're yes. I am, I am 110% committed to this cause. Yup. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah. If only for spite.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So cool. All right. So that's so O that's so Oda's taking care of it on a spread out level. And Ieyasu, who you know, that's now his name. He is. He has defeated like two very important seats of power for these people in his room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So now in 1567, so he's he's he spends a couple of years consolidating his position and and all of that. And then in 1567, he petitioned the Imperial Court. Not the Shogun. Right. These are the Shogun is ineffectual. There's no point like right. Fuck the Shogun. Right. These are the people. Shogun is ineffectual. There's no point like right. Fuck the Shogun. The Imperial Court is still the wellspring of political legitimacy. Right. Right. So he petitions the Imperial Court for permission to change his family name to Tokugawa.

to Tokugawa Okay now to simplify the issue for non Japanese history nerds The name change would Clearly show a claim by his family to be descendants of the Minamoto or Genji plan And thus eligible to claim the title of Shogun Okay, okay

Now at first the Imperial Court the Emperor refused Saying you know is no For whatever reason, you know politics whatever they they turned him down but he also got allies of his at court and But Ieyasu got allies of his at court and the head monk of a major Shinto temple to put the claim forward again, this time adding documentation discovered in the temple's archives that supported the genealogy. Okay. Now, now seriously, does this sound familiar?

Oh, hey, yeah, we checked the archives and we found this document that says fill in the blank oh Yeah, no Papal supremacy is is supported by this thing we found in the archives of the Vatican Like you know we're gonna lay it down on your altar during the Eucharist just so you can read it Yeah, right. So like what I say that feudalism has always been this way. Everywhere feudalism has always been this way. Sure. And like you know, um, so

you know the second petition the Emperor allowed it and Now the second petition the Emperor allowed it and Tokugawa Ieyasu claimed the name that he would carry into history. Okay, there it is. So that's 1567. 1567. 1567. So now he was secure in holding his own province. Like all of his peers, he's ambitious.

He still has to follow Oda's lead. Because Oda at this point now has more resources, more manpower. He's the guy with the bigger army. He's he's a partner, but he's still a junior partner. Right. Right. He's the pompous Oda's Crassus. Yes. So in 1568, Oda decided this was his moment. And in 1568, Ieyasu followed him, marched on the capital of Kyoto

and installed Oda's puppet in the now powerless, but still politically important role of Shogun. OK. And this gave Oda the opportunity to use his puppet shogun to legitimize any military action he wanted to take against any other daimyo he wanted to. And he immediately took advantage of it. As, you know, I don't know, I'm trying to remember what his, he had some very long, intricate title of being number one favorite assistant to the Shogun.

He sent this message out to basically everybody in the country saying the Shogun summons you for you know a celebratory feast of him you know having taken his office and a couple of Daimeo who were Oda's rivals said uh fuck you no and he went all right you're in rebellion so now why are you making me do this why? And so Oda immediately heads off and does that and Tokugawa held tightly to his alliance, but he also pursued his own goals They both both Oda and Tokugawa allied with the Takeda clan Okay Wasn't there a third guy there is but we have we haven't we

haven't gotten to the point where he becomes important to the story yet he's he is at the third guy okay is right now one of Oda's generals oh okay he's off he's off doing other stuff for okay nobunaga sure we'll we'll we'll come around to him in a bit now tokugawa made now they they ally with shingin but they ally with him separately so so no but i'm gonna take a da shingin he is he's known as the tiger of kai because kai province is his is his as the Tiger of Kai, because Kai province is his headquarters territory. And he is a generation older than Nobunaga and Ieyasu. And he he has his own legend in Japan. And and his his big rival was a was a figure named Uesugi Kenshin. And like their rivalry is one of those stories in Japanese history that has spawned movies and mini series and comic books and like all of this stuff.

And so Takeda Shingen is a living legend, right? And so they make this agreement with him or they each make agreements with him. And Ieyasu specifically agreed with Shingen that they were going to cooperate to conquer the territory of Imagawa and they were gonna split it at a specific river right okay to be the the western half was gonna be Takeda's the eastern half was gonna be

Tokugawa's right now so this is now where are we so 15 by 1570 okay so 1568 was the last date I mentioned when they when they marched on Kyoto and and installed Oda's guy as Shogun Right. So by 1570 Tokugawa and Takeda Separately, but in concert had basically put Imagawa completely on the ropes and Shingen had managed to completely drive Imagawa's leadership out of his half of the territory. Okay. So Imagawa, the guy who had been bullying Tokugawa when he was a kid, according to the stories that come to us,

has now fled into the other half of his territory. Tokugawa lays siege to him in like the one castle he has left sure and Tokugawa decides this is the time to turn on Takeda oh So he offers Imagawa The part of his territory that Takeda had captured He says I will help you take back that half of your territory. I'm a keep this half But I will help you take back that half of your territory I'm a keep this half, but I will help you take that half back and Then he turned around and having said that to Imigawa

I mentioned the name of Takeda's rival who is Sugi Kenshin he sent messages to Kenshin saying I'm gonna ally with you, and we're gonna fuck Takeda Okay this maneuver He gained himself the loyal support of the daimyo of the Imigawa territory. He had already captured Right because like he's he's gonna help their former liege lord take back his territory Like okay. All right. Yeah, he's a stand-up guy. We like this. And he has now put Imagawa in the position of being in his debt. Right. And so, I mean, in many ways, this is a full circle kind of thing too, because Imagawa

had given him the right to his own territory. So now he's cutting theirs in half and saying, I'll give you the right to that part of your territory. That half. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember your kindness, but I also remember that sword over my head. Yes. Yeah. I remember how you, you know, kicked the ball into my face repeatedly when we were both eight years old. Like, now, and at the same time, though, he is removing Shingen, right, Takeda from the board who has come up to be a powerful person.

Who is, who has all of, all of... Oh, he's the baddest, that's right. ... the Aos's life. He's been, yeah. Yeah. So he's removing... So this is a massive move. Yeah.

This is a big thing. He's removing a serious threat to whatever wins he was getting eventually. And he's weakened that one and the one that shares a border with him. And so he is surrounding himself with people who will be dependent on him. And unless they can all unite against him, which they can't. Then he you know, he he's going to be now the suzerain of all of them. Yes. Okay. Yes. All right. And those those formerly Imigawa samurai that he has now brought into his fold, many of them are going to go on

to be some of his most loyal retainers going forward. Okay. Okay. And in the same year, 1570, he shifted his capital from Okazaki to Hamamatsu, which puts him closer to the front, basically, where he's in a better position to oversee all of these military operations. Okay. And this is important he puts his son in charge of the ancestral castle his oldest son in charge of the ancestral castle at Okazaki okay okay so now at this point he does all of this

without letting any word of it get to Takeda. So, Takeda does not know any of this is going on. Okay. And how does Oda feel about all this? Oda... Oda is like, okay, I'm not gonna move on Takeda, but like, you do you. Their bond, like, they are number one, number one ride or die. Right. Their alliance is like the most important one So Oda continued was continuing his own expansion this whole time and gradually An alliance against him began to take shape

his puppet Shogun got tired of being a puppet and First quietly and then much less quietly urged various daimyo to turn on nobanaga one of those daimyo was taketa shinken who openly broke his alliance with oda and tokugawa and marched on kyoto in 1571 now if if he had not if if ieyasu had not been So Tokugawa if Tokugawa had not been making moves Yeah, this would have been a very worrisome thing this would have been a oh shit they've gone as this they can go this this still was a very worrisome thing because He's he's in a better position than he would have been Mm-hmm, but Takeda is going to be marching to Kyoto right through Tokugawa's territory.

His whole territory is right smack in Takeda's path. And so there was a whole series of battles and sieges that followed over the course of, you know, a couple of campaign seasons. And in 1573, Takeda won a decisive victory at the Battle of Mitaka-gahara. And this is this is a really remarkable story for Ieyasu. really remarkable story for Ieyasu because number one, this is one of only a few times he really got his ass kicked. Takeda's cavalry forces basically shattered the allied Tokugawa had to be convinced by his retainers to fall back in retreat. He was at first in a mindset of we die here. And his retainers were like, no, no, we don't.

No. And so they fell back from the battle and They they ran to try to remember the name of the castle I can look it up they fell back to a Tokugawa held fortress and Sorry hold on that's okay Hamamatsu, So Ieyasu runs back to his headquarters castle. And his forces have been broken. So it's him and his closest retainers and like a few hundred men out of a battle that had thousands on the field.

Now is he able to send word to Oda that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's going down. Oh, yeah. This is our time or not. Yeah. OK. And so he he, you know, at the urging of his of his retainers, he he snaps out of his, you know, all is lost, you know, berserk fury kind of state falls back to Hamamatsu Castle. you know, berserk fury kind of state falls back to Hamamatsu Castle.

And, uh, when he got there, he was only accompanied by five men. Like his, his forces had been scattered. So he gets back with like his bodyguards. Oh, and, um, the town was, was in full blown panic as, uh, you know, people, people had already heard that, battle had been a rout. And Ieyasu shows up and there's the force that had been left behind to hold down the fort, literally. And he had forces that had been scattered to the winds and he knew they were going to need to regroup. And he gave the order that the castle gates remain open and that torches and braziers be lit to guide his retreating men back to safety.

Oh, okay. Now, the pursuing Takeda forces came, you know, over the hill behind him and saw that one of Tokugawa's noted retainers, a samurai named Sakai Tadatsugu, had stripped off his shirt and he was just in his lower armor and essentially his pants. And he was beating on a drum just as hard as he could And the tokay two forces saw all of the torches lit saw the gates wide open and they were like this has to be a trap No, you know and so They they heard the drums saw every every light in the castle is burning

And uh, they they stopped to make camp for the night instead of taking the castle instead of instead of rushing through And taking the castle which had like again Five guys well, you know the five guys that were with tokugawa and probably 30 or 40 men holding the castle, right? so, um Well, you know, the five guys that were with Tokugawa and probably 30 or 40 men holding the castle, right? So Gradually other Tokugawa soldiers managed to make it back to the castle. And in the middle of the night, a small band of about 100 men, About 100 foot soldiers and 16 gunners Charge the Takeda camp in the middle of the night, threw them all into confusion. Sure. And, and, you know, like you wouldn't, you wouldn't do that unless you had some kind

of strategy, right? The Takeda forces, like, were afraid this there must be reinforcements coming for you. Yeah. Yeah. And like Kenshin is on his way or no, but Nagas on his way or something and so shingin went. All right No, we're gonna pull out sure and he withdrew back to his own territories and and If any part of that had gone differently Tokugawa would have been annihilated so very McClellan ask Yes. Yeah. Yeah so so shingin So very McClellan-esque. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So Schingen then went on and wound up dying later that year. Oh, because he's old. Right.

In camp. Well, one, he's no spring chicken. And he's been wounded multiple times. He's a tough old bird. Sure. He's been wounded multiple times in battle. And the theory is he may have caught some kind of an illness or pneumonia. We don't know exactly what it was that killed him.

Fanciful stories say that a ninja assassin got him. But there's also the same story about Uesugi Kenshin a few years later. But he dies during the siege of Nodok Castle. And so his forces all, you know, had back into Takeda territory. And his son, Katsuyori took over as head of Takeda. And Katsuyori was just nowhere near his father's equal. Okay, so this is another case of like, this is a singular generational talent. Yeah. And now that he's gone, it's okay. Yeah.

And so in 1575, Tokugawa Oda forces crushed Takeda's army at the Battle of Nagashino in June of 1575. And Nagashino is notable, number one, because it's very famous and it's a site of a reenactment that gets done at least every few years, if not annually. And so if you look online for Nagashino, whatever year, you can see Japanese reenactors in period armor, giving you know, demonstrations of this is what the gun line this is how the gun line would have fired at the battle. And this is you know, I'm and guys are playing roles, you know, they're dressed up in the armor, you know, recreating

the armor of Tokugawa's generals or Oda's generals. And it's a big, huge, huge panoply kind of show. It's amazing. And from a military history standpoint, the battle is important because it's where Oda used advanced archivist tactics where he had a like three ranks of gunners and first rank fire withdraw, second rank fire withdraw, third rank fire withdraw. At this point, the first rank has now reloaded and they can fire. So we had a continuous stream of fire and that tactic combined with either him or Tokugawa having figured out you know what Takeda's main main threat is their cavalry so the night before the battle to defend their gunners they built essentially kind of a picket fence Okay in front of the positions where their gunners were gonna be so the cavalry Can't charge charged. Yeah ran it into that and got cut to ribbons

So Takeda was crippled right but you know Katsu yori escaped and remained of thorn in Ieyasu's side. But that's a very different thing than his dad. Yeah, it's a very different thing than the existential threat that the Tiger of Kai had posed. And on that note of Katsu yori being a thorn in his side I think that's where I'm gonna bring this part of our story to a close Okay, and we can we can pick it up from here

So Okay, now now that we're so Katsu yori is is Fabian in everybody else. He's So Katsuyori is Fabianing everybody else. He's staying in the field harassing, not letting them seize total and complete legitimacy. Yeah. Essentially the warring is still going on in the warring states period. Oh yeah, and it's gonna be for a while. Okay. Well yeah, because third guy hasn't even really distinguished. Yeah, I haven't even I haven't mentioned the third unifier yet or the second unifier,

but the third one we're going to get right. We're going to see. So, yeah. Oh, so. What do you think? I mean, again, I said it before, the author of Shogun missed the real story. But you explained why. I find it interesting how, you know, like you said, history doesn't repeat, but it damn sure rhymes.

And I don't want to be the guy who's like, oh, that's just what the Europeans did like 2000 years earlier. But first off, it's only 1500 years earlier. But secondly, like, we keep seeing shit like this. And it seems to be where resources are finite, two or three guys will rise up eventually. And alliances will shift and then the two guys will ride all over everyone and then you'll have people you know kind of climb up and then I really liked the I mean I liked the fact that the peasants were like fucking enough dude that's no

that was a nice little touch. Can you please just not? Yeah, because again, being the Roman historian that I was for so long, one of the ways that Pompey really stepped out from under the shadow of Crassus was finishing off the Spartacan revolt. He didn't do much, but he got credit for finishing it because he got the last of the stragglers. So you even back then had, I think that was the second or third Servile War,

you had people rising up going like, fucking enough. While these other two guys are jockeying for position and eventually add a third, who is absolutely the ally of one of the two. Yeah, we're buddies. Yeah. But you and I we're we're pals. Then it's like, all right, I'll marry my daughter off to you then.

So my money says, so here's what I've gleaned. I bet you that Oda is gonna die in some far-flung place and now the balance of power will between Tokugawa and unnamed guy yet. And partly because of what you said, he piled the rice, he stamped the flour, and he ate the cake. So that means that Oda is gonna, probably he and his son are gonna get gold poured down their throat by the Parthians

And and then you'll see things it's it's way more it's way more it's way more Japanese than that sure sure like But but I think he will die away from them and then they will have an uneasiness Although you know that that was the Romans. Like, I mean, they were started by a fucking brother killing a brother. It could be that these guys are like way more loyal to each other and then one of them just also dies. So that's a possibility.

Because we've seen two triumvirates in Rome basically devolve into a duopoly where they have to fight for power. Yeah But yeah, all right. All right. I'm pinning I'm pinning down your predictions. Yes, please do like okay, so yeah, here's here's the here's what happened. Yeah, right So yeah All right

Cool, where can they find us or no? I'm sorry. Uh, what do you want people to go and read or watch? um, I am going to strongly recommend, uh by Stephen turnbull Uh, who is a prolific? Uh and and very compelling, uh writer on samurai history. He has been criticized for a bit of a European tendency to exoticize, but he's still a great writer. writer, the samurai and the sacred, which is an analysis of the different religious traditions within Japan that influenced samurai culture and how samurai culture responded

to them or dealt with them. And it's fascinating reading. He talks about the Iko-Iki. He also talks about the samurai relationship to death and how it became a centralized part of any spirituality that they practiced. So yeah, The Samurai and the sacred by Stephen Turnbull. It's a great book.

Highly recommend it. How about you? I'm going to recommend Juliet Barker's 1381 the year of the peasants revolt. We're going to go from this island to the English Island. 1381 is about 30 years after the Black Death wipes out a third of Europe. So peasants already have a better economic system or situation because they're needed a lot more and there's a lot fewer of them. But the revolt of 1381, it just tickled me

similar to the Iko-Iki. And I like shit when peasants revolt. So yeah, I have to say when I when I get to teach the Black Death, I love quoting the comments, the commentary by nobles and landlords in the wake of the death about you know, there's peasants that don't they don't do what they're told anymore and they, they demand so much and you can't get them to work anymore and they're all leaving and go to town and right. Get off. I'd say get off my lawn but I need you on my lawn.

Right. Oh my lawn. God damn it. You know, yeah. So, yeah, I recommend that. Where can we be found? We can be found collectively on the Apple podcast app on the Amazon podcast app on Spotify and on our website at www.geekhistorytime.com. And on the website, we have an archive. There's also archives, of course, on the apps. But the one on the website looks more sprawling. And so you can go through the archive wherever

and find any one of a number of topics to catch your interest. Wherever it is that you have found us, please take a moment to give us the five star review that you know we deserve and hit the subscribe button for us, please. And sir, where can you be found? Oh, well, you can find me and my crew at Capital Punishment on the first Friday of every month. Let's see. By this, by the time this drops, January 3rd, February 7th, March 7th, and April 4th. I strongly recommend you check us out at the comedy spot dot com, or saccomedyspot.com,

because walk-up tickets, you probably want to get your tickets in advance. We sell out quite frequently. But 9 p.m. first Friday of every month, I and my Capital Punishment crew will be there slinging puns and it is all kinds of just wholesome goodness fun. If you can't make it there because you live far away, you can still go to satcomedyspot.com and pull up their calendar, get a ticket for our streaming version of the show. So there you go. Cool. Well, for Geek History of Time, I'm Damian Harmony. And I'm Ed Blaylock, and until next time, keep rolling 20s.