A Geek History of Time - Episode 301 - Shogun Way Back Then, Then, and Now Part IV

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

We were saying that we were going to get into the movies. Yeah, and I'm only going to get into a few of them because there were way too goddamn many for me to really be interested in telling you this clone version or this clone version in the early studio system. It's a good metric to know in a story arc. Where should I be? Oh, there's Beast. I should step over here.

At some point, I'm going to have to sit down with you and force you, like pump you full of coffee and be like, no, okay, look. And are swiftly and brutally put down by the Minutemen who use bayonets to get their point across. Well done there. I'm good, Damian, and I'm also glad that I got your name right this time. I apologize for that one TikTok video. Men of this generation.

Wound up serving the whole lot of them as a percentage of the population because of the war, because of a whole lot of other stuff. Oh, yeah. And actually, in his case, it was pre-war, but, but, you know, I was joking. Did he seriously join the American Navy? He did. This is a Geek History of Time. Where we connect nerdery to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock. I'm a world history teacher here in Northern California and I am also the father of a six-year-old

boy who is in soccer and today we had a game and number one I will I will open with with the really good parts number one my son scored his first ever goal he scored two goals over the course of the game one of them was the game was the goal that tied the game up, and then another one took them another point ahead. They wound up winning 5-3. And that was awesome, and that was amazing, and that was great. This is also the first game his team has won since the start of the season. So, you know, yay But I also now understand why it is that parents get banned from sporting events Because the team we played against today did you wife do?

See That's why your wife it was me. I want her to know it was me Yeah on yes on the one hand ha ha funny on the other hand. You're not you're not wrong. It wasn't just her So so the team we played against had a couple of kids on it who were, and there's a part of me that feels bad for putting it this way because these are, you know, six and seven year olds. There were a couple of kids on this team that were shitheads. Just assholes. One of them in particular in particular number 32 you little fucker Was holding like consistently running after Robert running after other other teammates of Roberts. He would be grabbing their shirt and you know tugging

Like, you know blatantly fucking cheating But that's not the worst of it that That would just be like, alright, whatever. No, this kid hauled off and was punching one of my son's teammates in the back, in the middle of a play. The kid on my son's team, who is the biggest kid on my son's team, and second to gentlest kid on my son's team. Um, just, just full on punched him in the middle of a play. And, um, I was, I was upset with the kid. I was upset with the kid's parents, but I was livid with the referee because the kid told the referee and the referee kind of,

you know, Hampton hawed our coach told the referee referees exact words. Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm talking to him like, no fucker. Give him a penalty. Like, so, so we had that going on but A play or two after that As my wife was about to tell me to go take a walk because I was I was livid the same kid Then points to the smallest and gentlest kid on my son's team and says he hurt me that's like you have two inches of height at least two inches of

reach and probably 20 pounds in weight on the kid you're pointing to the kid you're pointing to has been standing in the middle of the field Picking grass and staring at the clouds Because he's that kid on my son's team. He is he is a goddamn marshmallow He's he's absolutely sweetheart. We you know we love him dearly you know but like of all the kids You're gonna try to make that bullshit accusation This is the target you're picking and

And when the kid said that my wife bless her Just could not stop herself. She said you mean like you've been hurting kids And the coach stood up and went hey Lee sit down Have a seat. I'm sorry. Sorry And and then a couple of minutes a couple of plays later One of our players missed scoring a goal by inches

Sure, and the same kid got up in in our players face and was like Neener Neener Neener in him over having missed and That was the point at which their coach Grabbed him and pulled him out of the game I'm like you couldn't have done that when he was committing physical assault Like I mean I'm glad you're taking steps, and I saw the kid getting a dressing down for it But I'm like you you couldn't have done that ten minutes ago when your kid was actually attacking other players like what the fuck But bad parents are gonna be bad parents

Shitty kids are gonna be shitty kids, But the part that had me morally outraged was the referee is supposed to have a job to enforce consequences when the rules get broken. And that had me hermit. So yeah, but in the end justice prevailed we won they lost And you know all all turned out well and my son got ice cream Because we promised him that when he scored his first goal, he'd get ice cream. So he got ice cream So yeah, that was my day. How about you now that I've you know gone on forever. Yeah, how about you? I'm Damien Harmony. I am a high school history teacher at the

in the Northern California area. You have convinced me that I was not wrong in in keeping my kids out of organized sports because I'm sitting there thinking about that. I'm like, OK, rough play is rough play. And there is a gray area in which that exists. I think punching kids in the back is obviously way too fucking much. I also know that referees are underpaid, very often under trained, and they're undermanned.

And so even if you're pointing a thing out to a ref, they also have to keep an eye on the ball and on 14 other aspects. Yeah. And so there's that. And then there's also the layer of if I start paying attention to the thing these parents are asking me to pay attention to, then when the next parent tells me to pay attention to this other thing, if I don't do that then there's favoritism and all that. So I have to be equally inept. Yeah. So there's that and then on top of that there's the the aspect of like the coach pulled the kid out for bad sportsmanship, which was obvious and

Didn't pull him out for bad For assault again. There's that weird gray area, but also there's that layer of He might have been looking at others and he's the only coach and they're often doing it on a volunteer or a very poorly paid thing. So with all of those things being true, and I would be very upset if my kid was getting punched, I also don't see it as a winnable situation

for fucking anybody involved. Yeah. And the only thing I would be able to do for my kids would be to, to like I, you know, when you said justice prevailed, we won. I was like, oh, you're buying into it. And that, that, that, that can justify things on the other side. Yeah.

That being said, the only lesson I would have is like, yeah, there are going to be shitty people in this world and you either have to give it back or you have to stop engaging in this. And that lesson is like, we don't need to spend our Saturday morning learning that. I'll show you a movie. Let's watch Made-A-W one together and just get really depressed, you know like So so I'm very glad I didn't get my kids into that. I'm still trying to get my kids to do like track and field Yeah, but I'm very glad I didn't get my kids into organized sports and I loved organized sports when I was their age

Yeah But I I doesn't seem like a winnable situation at all. Yeah, soccer, yeah. Yeah, soccer wasn't something I grooved on. I enjoyed baseball. Sure. I was, I played right field

because I can't run very well. Right, and there are not that many left-handed players at that age. Yeah, so, but, you know, I could catch sure you catch pretty well, and I could throw very well, okay but I I couldn't run very well and in retrospect My Dwayne syndrome is what prevented me from being any good at bat Yeah

because I'd lose Yeah Yeah, cuz I'd lose Lose binocular vision when I turned sideways to go up to go up to the plate. Yeah, so yeah I played baseball and and really enjoyed it and There are way too many life-altering head wounds that happened Yeah, not to me, but that I've, that I've seen. I'm just like, hi.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And also, you know, I, my, my son, he really did like baseball for a while. And I tried to keep fostering the interest and then he just lost interest. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. You don't need to. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, daughter, same thing with gymnastics. Like she really liked it until she didn't. Yeah. Um, so yeah daughter same thing with gymnastics Like she really liked it until she didn't I was like, okay cool, and I don't mind my kids treating that shit like a buffet Yeah But yeah, nothing that you've said has sold me on on the idea that Let them miss out. In fact, it's confirmed that like okay, Damien. You didn't fuck up on this one level. That's yeah. Yeah But hey more power to good. Yeah, yeah. But hey, more power to you.

So for me, I, I reupholstered my chairs with a friend of mine. She wanted to learn how to do it. I've needed it done. And there's so much, number one, there's so much nicer. But number two, the way I did it was, instead of thinking, okay, what would match this room and what would match this table

and what would match the couches, like a normal human being would do, I was like, let's make sure none of them are the same at all. And so then I told my kids, you each pick out two fabric patterns, I will pick out two fabric patterns and we will have six chairs with different fabric patterns. So I did. And the one of the chairs has professional wrestlers on it. They are drawings of professional wrestlers because likeness rights etc.

etc. But they're very specific style and very specific drawings and they looked really familiar to me. So I get the fabric, I unleash it. There's an obvious Hulk Hogan type, there's an obvious Macho Man type, and there's an obvious Iron Sheik type, there's an obvious B. Brian Blair type, there's an obvious Junkyard Dog type, there's an obvious John Studd type. There's an obvious junkyard dog type. There's obvious John stud type

There's a very obvious Harley race type, you know and on and on and on and I'm like This one looks exactly I mean there's it's a Roddy Piper I'm like that's a really weird pose that he's got and then I look at The one right next to him him I'm like that looks exactly like the only wrestling action figure my parents ever bought me. It's Jesse the body Ventura because they did the action figures and then he had his lung issues and then had to retire. Okay. But he's got pink pink tights on and he's flexing one arm and then the other one's kind of pointing downward.

I'm like, it's a stupid ass pose. And then I was like, I remember that pose. And that was the only wrestling figure, action figure that they bought me. And I was like, I think all of these are. And so I did a search search found every single one of these guys and it's it's all the original 1980s LJN hard rubber nothing articulable on it about him yeah nobody's yeah that my parents did not buy for me maybe because they were dogshit toys maybe because my parents thought wrestling was too violent but either way I only ever got Jesse the body yeah the I only ever got Maybe because they were dog shit toys, maybe because my parents thought wrestling was too violent. But either way, I only ever got Jesse the body. Yeah, I only ever got Jesse the body Ventura and frankly,

I think it was because they didn't know who the wrestlers were. You know, it's like, hey look, I got you a Star Wars and you're like, oh cool Chief Chirpa, you know, it'd be like that. So, so I'm looking them all up and there's two that I cannot for the life of me figure out. And about just before dinner was ready, I was like searching and searching and searching. And then I found one of them and I'm like, oh, it's Cowboy Bob Orton. Of course it is. It was Randy Orton's dad. Right. And then the the other one I'm like, I don't know what the fuck this is And then friend of the show Kukai, um Huge wrestling fan too. Yeah, I messaged him. I'm like, I cannot figure this guy out. He's like well You know, what era you talking? I'm like, it's gotta be from like 85 or so, right? It's gotta be around 85 to 87 at the most. Okay, I was like, but nobody wore

It's got to be around 85 to 87 at the most. I was like, but nobody wore tights that look like this. They were like down to the knees and they were like, it almost looked like they were missing a segment so you could see his leg. And then I noticed, and he's a black fellow and he's got a beard and a fro, and it's a short cropped fro, but it's a fro, and he's barefoot.

And I'm like, I don't, I told him, I said, I don't know any black wrestlers in the mid eighties who were barefoot and who had tights like this. I know a few who were bearded and who had short cropped hair, but like this is none of them. And he said, maybe he's not black, maybe he's Samoan. Cause Vince loved his stereotypes. And I was like, I bet you it's not black. Maybe he's Samoan cuz Vince loved his stereotypes and I was like I

Bet you a talk who and sure enough. I looked it up haku ljn and it was the exact one. I'm like, ah, so Mystery solved. I know who my ass is touching And there's the punchline yes gentleman there gentlemen. There you go. But you know, I love the chairs like there's one where it's clearly the map of a dungeon. One like abstracts of Star Wars. Another one where it's like Star Wars vehicles, another one like abstracts of space. And then one where it's like all the loot that you would find in a wizard's pack. The other one is the little clasp on the Lord of the Rings. You know, the things that Gladwell gave them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Also, so yeah, I just I just have to say the tactic that you went with strikes me as being very Let me know that

You did that you know the majority of the people in this house are neurodivergent without telling me the majority of the people In this house are neurodivergent like it's that's on the one hand That's absolutely brilliant on the other and it's and it's not anything anyone in my home would have thought of What just like you we're not we're not gonna match anything we're gonna we're gonna intentionally go for none of this is gonna match up with anything right you know I mean it's brilliant part of it is my wife on you too yeah my my my wife though has has a you know matchy matchy is is a big deal is a big deal. I had one of those I

Don't have one of those And so now I'm like, you know what? Three people in this house with different views and different ideas like shit in here And I'm not looking to keep this particularly neat. Let's do it. Let's do it. It's gonna be fun Yeah, and one of those one of those nobody can tell me to leave the bookstore. Yeah. Like, right. Grown up. I don't have to go. Right. And it's like, you know what? This is, you know, like I don't see why I shouldn't have more fun stuff in my house.

It doesn't have to look nice. Who am I impressing? I don't wear pants to work. Who the fuck am I impressing? Now to clarify I wear shorts, but yeah So All right, so all right. It was 1588 when last we left. Yes. Yeah Queen Victoria No, Queen Elizabeth had spurned Prince Philip And so he sent her boats as a present if I recall correctly

Explain historical event badly. Oh god My brother and I decided you remember last last show I told you about how, you know, can you teach it more, what was the word, more neutral? More neutral. Yeah. So he and I started trading back and forth different neutral ways to teach history. And here's some awful ones. Hitler's Nazis visited Poland and the vibes were maybe questionable. And then I said, that's awful.

But there were some Jews involved in banking. So Henry Ford wasn't technically wrong. Because I'm being neutral, you see. Oh my God. Yeah. The Europeans arrived in the new world and brought many gifts to their new neighbors, such as the exciting opportunities to improve their immune systems. Oh, my God. And then I fired back.

Wait, have either of you actually written textbooks for the state of Florida? No. That's hard to tell. Maybe we should try because they'd buy that. I fired back. Columbus was a venture capitalist who chafed against the regulations of a distant government out of touch with what it took to start and maintain a business.

Abraham Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation, which removed the Southern workforce. Abraham Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation, which removed the Southern workforce. John Brown was vociferous in his critique on Southern economic practices. The war between the states. He was vociferous. Yes. He just didn't stop there. Right. Again, I'm being neutral.

Neutral. Yeah. The war between the states, first first off that I start with that Was hard on people trying to maintain traditions in the more agrarian southern states And then the downer party practiced the new diet that some in the party found disagreeable Spedley Butler betrayed the trust of the businessmen who offered him a job. I knew you were going to bring Spedley Butler. Oh, yeah. Somehow. San Francisco had an exciting opportunity for business development after an unsuccessful trial with reliance on wood construction materials.

Oh, the Chinese workers already in America were allowed to stay after 1881 oh my god it was then that Mary Perry discovered there were even more applications of radiation and then here's like Well, I'll give you four more not satisfied with the fire exits provided many girls who worked for the triangle shirtwaist factory elected to find their own exit No I don't know if it's just the cumulative effect, but that's the one right finally had me say The local Japanese were provided alternative housing during the evaluation period in the 1940s

This this one's gonna make me go to hell in early April of 1968 Martin Luther King jr Finally stopped complaining about what rights he didn't have Like you said And yes, yes a whole sector of the country is gone father Sarah instructed a motivated indigenous population in Christian theology And that's where we stopped he got much trouble in fourth grade for his mission project because he told the truth about Sarah by the way yeah this doesn't surprise me no brother yeah oh my god yeah so wow wow yeah yeah you know why don't you just you know tell it Oh my God. Yeah. So. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, why don't you just, you know, tell it neutrally? Because that's untrue to the discipline. Yeah. That's not. It reminds me of when we did six word summaries

of plays or whatnot. And so, waiting for Godot was nothing happened and then nothing happened again. That's, that's actually a really good summary of waiting for Godot. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, sent boats as a gift. Good. Yeah. That's, that's not, that's, hmm's hmm you you use that word I don't think that means what do you think it means Oh, okay, so you're gonna hit us with your liberal bias on history. Yeah

Okay, I I am I I am. I didn't realize that discussion of the Spanish Armada was something that could be that could find a way to be fractured along conservative liberal lines. I know since it happened, you know, three hundred and forty fucking years ago. But OK, sure. I I I had one recently with somebody and they're like, you know, Columbus Day is too woke and blah, blah, blah. It's not indigenous people's day. It's Columbus day. I'm like, you realize you're to the right of the people who started the Inquisition. Like, like I don't need to take you seriously.

Like when Ferdinand and Isabella are like, yeah. All right. Come on now like no you're done Yeah, when when when Torquemata would write you and go, all right, dude tone it down there pal Yeah, bring it bring it bring it down a notch like really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, Japan 1588 yes Japan in 1588 on the other side of the planet from where Philip was sending his boats to say hi to Lizzie. Ieyasu, after a disagreement with his wife and son. Yes, yes, after discovering some unfortunate letters between his wife and yeah

Following his correspondence. Yes. Oh, they're very well done. Yeah, so so 1588 specifically is the year of the great sword hunt which I mentioned You know Hideyoshi now solidifies Holds the ladder up under himself. Right. And, and solidifies the division between samurai and civilians. Um, you know, says we're going to gather all these, we're going to melt all these, all these weapons down and we're going to turn them into an image of the Buddha.

Right. Um, and so as, as I mentioned right before we, we ended things, all of this, all of this conquest, all of this expansion, all of this stuff that he Yoshi had done over the past four years, um, uh, Ieyasu was, was hanging back. There was some of it that he was a little bit involved in. Some of his retainers would be sent to participate in some of these campaigns. But by and large, Tokugawa's forces sat in their in their territory. He worked on building relationships with his new vassals, you know, solidifying his power base doing all this stuff. Sure. So in 1590, Hideyoshi decided that it was time to

deal with the Hojo. Now you'll remember, hopefully, in the last episode, I mentioned that Ieyasu was the second most powerful man in Japan after Hideyoshi. And the Hojo, at this point, were the number three power. Now the Hojo were the ones who were... They're not the Mori. The Mori were the ones that were over the ridge. Yeah. The Mori have by this time been subjugated under Hideyoshi's rule. And the Takeda had also been subjugated and then there was a real fight over who got whose land of the Takedas.

Yes, and most of Takeda's territory had eventually gone to Ieyasu and he had brought a whole bunch of Takeda's retainers into his own orbit. Mm-hmm. So Ieyasu has the Takeda's. Yes. The Mori have been pacified because Hideyoshi had to make peace with them to go back and kill Mitsuhide. No.

Mitsuhide. Right. To solidify his own position in the Oda territory He had to be right and then and then in in this period of time where I was talking about the tear He went on part of what he did was he and one of his generals Conquered Mori and their neighbor right and so that's that's now part of his hegemony Along with basically, you know Kyushu and she'd all of Kyushu and Shikoku are right, you know now they have all bent the knee. Yeah, he island hopped

Yeah. Oh, yeah in a big way. Okay So that is the Hojo are yeah to the south? They are in a region known as the Kanto, which is on the eastern side of it. So if you think of the spine of the mainland of Japan, of Honshu, they're on the eastern side. and they are essentially to the north and east of where Ieyasu has his his Territory right now. Okay. All right and Historically for going all the way back to the Genpei war which is where you know, all of this has started in the first place. Yeah

The Minamoto had been from the Kanto region. That was where their original homeland had been and the Kanto had this reputation as being kind of like the Calling it the Wild West would be wrong because the analogy doesn't quite apply but they were the hard-writing unruly, really, really rough character or kind of tough guy samurai. Kind of was a reputation that the Kanto families had. By this time they are still courtly and as a samurai you're supposed to also be a poet and whatever all, having

some kind of artistic culture in addition to being a warrior. But they still culturally emphasize the warrior part more over more Western You know closer to the capital in Kyoto Kind of kind of courtly okay, so kind of frontier Yeah, frontier. Yeah, yeah front two frontier would would get the mood of what we're talking right. That's the okay So so there's a fight with the hojo. Yes, so did he do the Kanto yes in the Kanto region, okay, so They they had never officially bent the knee to Hideyoshi. They were still independent and To you told me

Which is the the family name Hideyoshi had adopted okay now he now is Toyotomi, which is the family name Hideyoshi had adopted. He now is Toyotomi Hideyoshi. And he's not even trying to hide behind the fig leaf of Oda anymore. It's like, no, no, it's me. I'm Kampaku. I am the protector, know Lord protector of Japan like right now. He left that well cuz um Oda had His name

Nobunaga no, but Aga had left that position Vacant so he kind of precedent of we don't do that here anymore. Yeah. Yeah, we don't we don't need that shit. I'm Yeah, I'm the one. I'm the one with the swords, right? I'm you know, yes, I kind of codified codifies that Yes, if he originated, okay. Yeah And so he declared the hojo in rebellion after the head of the hojo clan refused to appear For an imperial visit to

Hideyoshi's home base. So the Emperor was gonna go visit the Kampaku and the Kampaku sent a summons out, you know, there's this courtly event, you know, everybody show up, you know, sign of loyalty to the emperor, right? Because the emperor is a figurehead, but he is still the wellspring of political legitimacy. Right. And you showing up legitimizes that. Yes. Yeah. And so the hojo had been hoping that they might be able to get help from other farther from the center of the country warlords, guys from the north and other places that had essentially de facto acknowledged Hideyoshi's power, but were're not in Hideo. She's camp They they were hoping that guys like that a Masamune for example

Who was it was up in the northern part of Honshu? They were hoping they did be able to get him to back their play like okay We're not we're not we're not going with this Screw you, you know, you're not all that in a bag of chips. Sure. And that, and that did not go the way they had hoped. Um, so, um, so they, they refused to show up for this thing and he, he, she says, well, okay. I mean, obviously you're in rebellion and, uh, Ieyasu and many of his highest level retainers the same the same group of Heavenly generals as they've they've come down to us in them in the annals He and his he and his top ass kickers head out to lead the expedition to punish the hojo on

behalf of on behalf of Hideyoshi because Yasu had become a vassal he accepted yes. Yes. He knew she was one of the ones who had bent the knee Because you know he saw the way the wind was blowing and it was like you know at this point I'm not I'm not in a position to to fight that right So the campaign against the hojo was was short, not tactically particularly interesting. There were some great, you know, anecdotes, like Japanese history in this period is full of all these great stories of, you know, individual warriors doing badass shit, or, or moments of, you know, ineffable, incredible beauty that become tragedy in the context of warfare sure, you know

There's all kinds of the stuff but the the Hojo essentially hold themselves up in Otoara castle and there was a siege and Ieyasu Using it's worth noting Using because you mentioned sappers last episode right using minor use some yes using miners from Takeda's territory from the province of Kai they undermined the walls of the castle and was part of how the castle fell and

Castles and strongholds are a big deal here Like you're either seeking them or defending from them Yeah, what's his faces? Yeah, asu's son was originally in charge of the Okatomi castle Okay, Yama, okay. I'm a castle and so yeah castles are a big deal fortresses castles that kind of stuff Yeah, yeah, okay Which is... So they undermined one. I assume this is not the first time that that had been done.

No. OK. No, no. But the part of it that I find notable is the engineers came from territory he had absorbed when he took control of Takeda. When he took control of the province of Cai he took control of the province of Kai it was gold miners from the province of Kai that were that were recruited breast ganged whatever in or in into doing this job

It's always so amazing to me that like gold everywhere Yeah Everywhere like this shits shiny and it doesn't bond too much Yeah, we should send people into the earth to dig it out. Yes expense because it'll be more like Yeah, can everywhere. Okay. Anyway, okay So they undermine which by the way great term The castle I assume a wall falls they they Yeah The castle I assume a wall falls they they

Yeah, like you can either die now, or you can surrender. Yeah, okay the the hojo Surrendered okay the leadership of hojo so the head of the clan his son All of his brothers like everybody everybody the, the clan surname Hojo, anything, basically the, the, all, all of the potential leadership, all the potential heirs committed suicide. So it's like seven or eight guys were ordered to commit suicide, but in the level right below them, so they're one of their highest ranking generals, one of the guys that had been a pain in Hideyoshi's ass, was also ordered to commit suicide, but

his son was spared. then became one of Tokugawa's vassals and went on to be a very a loyal and high ranking and well rewarded vassal of Ieyasu in the years after this. So, again, this is kind of a recurring theme. Yeah. With the way that Ieyasu has has built his brand right? He takes on other people's second levels Take yes. Yeah, and he majors Yeah, and he and he

Brings them into his own orbit and he gets them to follow him through his own personal charisma. Sure. You know, it isn't like he, he, she basically, you know, utilizes power and leverage to get people into a position where you got to negotiate with me and I know what you want. I will give you what you want, right? Or part of what you want. And in return, you're going to give me what I want right there's no where else there

There's no there's not a lot. It's like it's how I negotiate Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want this you have this yeah For me to get this from you Precisely it is it is I'm gonna. I'm gonna offer you a situation that is at least on its surface looks like a win-win offer you a situation that is at least on its surface looks like a win-win. Whereas with Ieyasu, there's also that, but, but beyond that there is this recurring theme of these people now becoming personally really loyal to him. Right.

Not just, well, okay, I'm bending the knee and I'm going to, yes, I'm your vassal. I'm going to do what you tell tell me but like I am your guy You know So now that's 1590, right? Okay. So the hojo the hojo name goes extinct. Oh Wow, and yeah, hey they they were like no no you are done now, right? So so the hojo go away and Hideyoshi in 1591 Orders Ieyasu because Hideyoshi is the Kampaku. He is the grand grand chancellor. You know sure big guy. Yeah

He orders Ieyasu to give up his five provinces Mikawa totomi suruga shinano and Kai these are all big in the West right these are all like southeast oh This is this is his yes. Yeah, Japanese geography for anybody who? Didn't study it in depth. It's it's okay twisty, but so anyway He he he sends an edict saying you're gonna give up your five provinces

And you're going to take up administration of the eight provinces of the Kanto So this is a promotion then on The papers is a promotion. promotion yes it's kind of like you're gonna come to Versailles yes I don't want you around people that you are influential with yes it's gonna be you're gonna come to Versailles there's a little bit of you're gonna come to

Versailles and there's an awful lot of I am now making you the administrator of Arrakis okay. OK, is the the other one is like you might be able to make a whole lot of money out of this. But mostly I know I'm going to isolate you and put you in a like, you know, you're going to work really well for me.

Yes. It'll make you rich, but you will never usurp me. Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. So there's there's there's several different things that that are going on with Hideo. She doing this at once so Kanto is where the hojo were the Kanto had been hojo territory, okay, and this so like you said it's on the south It's on the it's on the northeast south. Well. This is this still this is more due easterly

Okay, part of honcho. Okay like central east part of the main. Yeah Yeah to simplify. Yes, so and so this this had been Hojo territory and so Ieyasu Followed orders sure picked up took he was he was allowed to take his his vassals with him Okay, and they moved out of those five provinces into the Kanto. He set up his headquarters at Edo That was the sense

Nowadays Tokyo Okay, well and when you hear about Edo,, it's under the Tokugawa Shogun. Edo period. Yeah. Yeah. So he, he decided, okay, there's this fishing town that is underdeveloped that I can build into what I want, what I need. So I'm going to set my headquarters up there in Edo and Hideyoshi wanted wanted to make sure probably wanted to make sure that the Kanto didn't turn into a hotbed of rebellion. Right. I need I need somebody to take control of it to maintain control of it. Yeah. So he knew himself too. Yeah. And he knew he had a track record of being able to you know take control pacify the region keep it keep it running smoothly right

He probably also saw this as a way to Destabilize the one man in Japan who could come anywhere close to being his rival I'm gonna cut him off from his ancestral territory Geographically moving him into the canto Isolated him somewhat From from you know everything else like all the all the centers of power are Farther west right and I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep him busy Right And I'm gonna I'm gonna keep him busy

Keeping former hojo vassals in line, you know, he's gonna have to be you know, he's gonna be keeping an eye on all them and Now this move was was just about the riskiest thing that EA also ever had to undertake And it also doesn't have any Support that he can truly rely on he also ever had to undertake. And it also doesn't have any support that he can truly rely on. It's people who formerly had fought against the guy he's the boss or who's his boss.

And he doesn't know if his boss has seated people in there who would keep him honest with the sword. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so it put him in. The thing is, though, it also put him in a remarkably safe position in a really counter-intuitive way His ancestral followers from mikawa who came with him

They lost their connection to their old feats as well And that took away their independence from him Right And that took away their independence from him right So now they were so now they're relying on him more. This is Cortez burning his boats in a way yes and When they followed him into the new territory it was like well We got to stick with him or were over fucked right right the newer forces that he'd absorbed from Takeda Emigawa and then Hojo Mm-hmm were also now in similar circumstances everybody

Nobody had like well, you know, we've we've been in this province for you know, 30 generations or whatever like, you know We're we're we're more senior There wasn't there wasn't any of that anymore. So when they all wound up in the Kanto They were all new to it and they were all tied to Tokugawa as now more of a part of their identity So this actually invert had the inverse effect Yeah, she wanted Yeah, and so the other thing is Kanto is a again, we said frontier. Yeah, it's it's an area that needs pacification

ultimately, which means kind of a level of like, hey, get this done. And I don't care how you do it. I've got other shit to handle. Like, yes, there is a there's a neglect That's gonna happen. Yep in such a situation and you can carve out you can almost like Create a a bubble of like we're doing your official duty, but underneath that there's a layer of Okay, guys, here's what we're doing. We're doing it right way and all that. This is our house, right? Okay, guys. Here's what we're doing. We're doing it. Yeah way and all yeah, this is our house, right? You know okay? Yeah, and there's a saying in Japan that Ieyasu retreated to win

When they when they talk about this this this shift He fell back in order to win fell okay I don't see how this oh so retreated in other words He he knuckled under and did what he was told and he didn't rebel and he didn't fight he he retreated and In so doing right right improved his situation to the point where you know what happened happened right okay? so Tokugawa settled in the Kanto Started, you know building up Yato as his center of power One of the things he did that's that's worthy of note is

He set up a monetary and banking system he actually appointed one of his officials as you're gonna be the one in charge of managing the gold supply and You know money and we need we need They didn't call it a banking system because you know they didn't have banks But it was essentially like in the canto there is a we have a financial Institution here. Okay. We have a minister in charge of looking at the flow of money. Okay. Okay. So, you know, this, this is, this is not battlefield badassery. This is no, no, I'm going to be an administrator and I'm going to use that to, you know, get

ahead. So while, while Tokugawa was doing this and you know following orders being a good boy and solidifying in this way solidifying his connections to his own men and building a new power base. Hideyoshi now you know absolute top dog, there there is nobody who can stand against him. He turned his sights on pursuing what had been a dream of nobunaga's, which was an invasion of Ming China to get them back for them. So the invasion wasn't yeah. I yeah yeah and and well, it's an island you're gonna want to go

Yeah, like yeah, and they're he took care of the other island. So yeah, okay Okay, and and part of it is also, you know the the system the way the way no buddha and Idiot she were both looking at things. Mm-hmm They were Nobunaga and Edyoshi were both looking at things. They looked at the history of what had brought the original shogunates down. And part of that was, they had the invasion by the Mongols that led to a whole lot of people not being able to be rewarded for their service. And like if we want to maintain stability, we need to be able to, you know, keep the Daimyo and the samurai happy. And that's going to mean we need more land.

Okay. So like their logic is yeah gonna do and also putting guys off the island farther away is a good way to Continue to expand your guessings and at the same time keep the dangerous ones Yeah out there. We send you out there send the unpredictable ones off to ultra mirror and yeah so the unpredictable ones off to ultra mere and yeah so So he sent envoys Hideo. She sent envoys to the kingdom of Corio, which is modern-day Korea Demanding safe passage

Saying we got no trouble with you, right? We don't want to fight you our problem is with your really big neighbor To to the north and west. Right. You know, we just want to be able to march through your territory to get there and the rulers of Corio looked at that and went, yeah, that's not that's not going to be a win for us. Right. Because that's going to that's at the very least that's going to lead to you

fighting the Ming on our territory. Yeah. And more likely we're going to look complicit. Yeah. And, and, you know, I, I, we don't think you understand who it is that you think you're picking a fight with here. Right. Like, no. And, and, you know, they, they rebuffed these, these political offers. So in August of 1591, Hideo, she ordered an invasion of Korea. Okay. And a whole damn book, like a really thick, thick book volumes sure could be written and has been about the Korean campaign of between 1592 to 1598 Forhidi is the comparison I would make here is that it was

Kind of like Roman adventures beyond the Rhine. Right. It was ambitious. It was motivated by, you know, forces from within his empire, flang of a better word, you know, expansion was, was what we do, right? Conquest is my thing, you know, um, and, but, you know, ultimately it ended in failure and resulted in a very hard limit on expansion Okay There is no Tudiborg forest in this case, okay

The campaign went on and on and on for six years She over there the whole time no he Yoshi remained in Japan, but he sent his his his truly loyal You know best buddies over there, okay to act as his generals sure and there are there are again volumes of like an entire cast of legendary samurai daimyo Badasses who went over and there's unlike like I've already said the the history of this period is full of anecdotes of you know Unbelievable bravery against incredible odds right, you know incredible cruelty, you know

Like like there's high drama high drama all over the place the whole campaign Into an end in 1598. Okay when he did she died Oh, okay now he did he had been in failing health for a couple of years. Okay. So, and so he, he, he knew time was coming close. And, um, while this campaign had been going on, Ieyasu and several other major Daimyo had sat the campaign out.

several other major Daimyo had sat the campaign out. Now they had been ordered by Hideyoshi to stay home and handle logistical support. You need to be the ones managing, getting all the food and material and everything else to the troops in Korea. And to Hideyoshi there's, there's double purpose here. Number one, Tokugawa Ieyasu in particular is a known quantity. He knows how to do these things. He's good at these things. He's a good manager. I know I can count on him to get this stuff done at the same time like we talked about

before. This is the unglamorous You don't get any glory for these jobs. You don't get the major financial rewards for these jobs You know the guys in sales are the ones who get all the big bonuses and get all the attention to the Christmas party Right, you know the quarter master is not the hero the general is yeah Yeah, unless unless that quarter master is a grant grant but that's a whole other story for another day grants badass anyway so this kept Ieyasu and these other daimyo in the rear echelon they're not gonna capture any new territory they're not gonna be earning any more notoriety for war like deeds like you know so again double double play here

Yeah, yeah, yeah as he do she's health faded, but over the course of the campaign Ieyasu in particular Became more and more central to the operation of the government Sure, yeah, because you know he's got a center of old there's yeah. Yeah So in the months prior to his death Hideyoshi called a council of elders Made up of Ieyasu and four other major daimyo Okay, and he charged them to act as regents to his five-year-old son Hideyori them to act as regents to his five-year-old son, Hedi Ori.

He's like, my time is coming. I know I'm not gonna last very much longer. You all need to be regents to Hedi Ori. Now I get what he's trying to do there. Nobody wants to be the first one to betray. Right. And if you're the first one to betray, the others will jump on you unless you can somehow work out a secret thing. So I get what he's doing there.

But at the same time, your five year old is not going to make it to region to be on regency. It's not going to happen. Not with like, oh, you've got your most, you know, your your your most ambitious guys. Yeah. And they've been hanging back, building their power base, basically. Yup. Yeah.

So now, um, according to an admittedly pro Tokugawa source, uh, Hideyoshi supposedly also met secretly with two of his most powerful retainers and Advised them that he felt Tokugawa was power would be unstoppable Mm-hmm, and when he died they needed to ally with Tokugawa for the sake of Toyotomi's future for the sake of his son Okay Eeya is gonna be the one like he he is already the number two guy in the country. He's smart and cunning and you're just, just go with him, ride with him. Right. Like, you know, that's the best way for my son to stay alive, go with him.

And now this, and then he died and the council called the army back from Korea Okay, they they hid Toyotomi's death from the population at first mm-hmm in order to maintain morale they called the army back from Korea and then Eventually they they said the campaku is is dead, okay? and this state of affairs With a council of five daimyo ruling Japan Ostensibly in the name of the air

Is where we effectively start the Shogun series? Oh wow So two years have passed between the death of Hideyoshi or the Taiko in Shogun. And as the show portrays things, Lord Toronaga, who is Ieyasu, or Ieyasu's fictional counterpart Torinaga in the show is in this position of being the underdog the the other members of the council know that he is The the most individually most powerful one of them, but they have him by the by the tail They they have him in a position where he is. He is essentially a hostage in Osaka Castle. They have all been allied. The three three of the

counselors are allied to Lord Isshido who will get into who his real life counterpart was and how it's different from the show later. But they are they are tied to Ishido. Ishido wants to take out Toranaga. And there is this very precarious situation that Toranaga is in. And that's really great for the drama of the show. It helps us see our European stand-in figure of Blackthorn as we can understand why his role is so critical. But in point of practical fact, historically, Ieyasu was in a much stronger position, and Ishido's real-life counterpart had already made a couple of really big mistakes by this time in the actual real history and

so This with with now getting to where we're actually going to be talking about the show I think this is a good place for us to pause now that we know who this person was historically and everything that had brought him to this point in his career. I think this is where we can draw it down for now. Yeah, going from history to back into the actual series That these episodes are all about yeah, yeah, so So having said that mm-hmm

What what are you thinking of what is your takeaway at this point makes perfect sense that they would start the show? By the way, which show are we talking the older, the new or are they both of them? OK, they both they both start basically the same place. OK, makes sense that we're starting with like the main cunning guy fighting from below. Yeah, because that's that's

your automatic drama story. And that's your automatic. You're already setting up who your protagonists are. And who are the ones that you can't trust and on and on. So, yeah, it makes sense that they would start it there. I do think it's interesting. I'll ask this question.

And it's OK if you can if you need to hold off any answer. Because you had the in the reality, you had soldiers being recalled from Korea. Yeah. Is that a destabilizing force and like where you've got a bunch of warriors coming back and where they fit in because things less than less than you might think because when when they got called back from Korea, they were returning basically back to status quo pro ante when they came back. There had not been any major, you know, other than Hideyoshi being dead, like nobody's position in the country had really shifted. They were all coming back to their own, their own feats,

their own territories, you know, their own relative positions to whoever their overlords were. The difference was now there were five guys at the top ostensibly making decisions on behalf of a Hideyoshi's heir as opposed to Hideo she being the guy. Right. You know, and so yeah, there was in other circumstances, this could have been really destabilizing, but it didn't wind up causing those kinds of problems because you know they were they were just coming back to where they had been before Gotcha, so okay Well cool. I look forward to a discussion of the before or the first show and then the current iteration

Yeah, yeah nice cool Well, let's see is there anything you're gonna recommend to people this week and then the current iteration. Yeah, yeah. Nice. Cool. Well, let's see, is there anything you're gonna recommend to people this week? I am going to recommend the Lone Wolf and Cub series of Chanbara movies. They take place during the Edo period. They are comic book move. They're they're very bloody violent comic book movies, basically

But there are a lot of details in them They're very evocative of like the culture and the mindset that all of this led up to if that makes sense, yeah, and culture and the mindset that all of this led up to. If that makes sense. Yeah. And, um, they're just, they're entertaining. They're just, they're just a lot of fun. Um, so yeah, lone wolf and cub, um, and yeah, highly recommended. How about you? I'm actually, it's funny. I'm going to recommend, uh, something along the same lines. Um. It's by Stan Sakai

And it's it's a series that has now been gathered into a single volume I think that released in the last God I want to say last three years mm-hmm or so and it is the to say last three years or so. And it is the Yusagi Yojimbo series. That's an amazing fucking series. The Rabbit.

I love Yusagi Yojimbo. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, this is volume one. It's I want to say it's like 600 pages long. And it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's it it I first got exposed to you Sagi Ojumbo by the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles crossover. Right. Okay. For the longest time I thought he was a TMNT character and they even had a doll of him

and stuff like that you know. Yeah. But no it's this whole fucking thing and it's it. Oh, yeah. I mean it's it's supposed to be essentially It's there's there's an actual character in history of a similar name, right Well, there's a there's a similar figure in history. Yeah, it's it's Strongly in history. It's strongly referencing the life of Miyamoto Musashi. That's what it was. Okay. Yeah. I didn't want to get his name wrong, too. Yeah. So but this is I mean, if you're so you got lone wolf and cub, but you also got this one and it's yeah, I mean it's it's Is it it's it's like the same era or the same?

Yeah Yusuke Ujimbo being based on the life of Miyamoto Musashi takes place at the very beginning of the Edo period Right. He is he is a ronin who lost his lord Yeah at the battle that led to the establishment of the shogunate, right? Spoiler alert seems like yeah seems like a good place to to Start reading that one. Yes. Yes very much And if not that then you could watch the Bruce Willis movie set in the 1930s in Texas. It's the same story Then you could watch the Bruce Willis movie set in the 1930s in Texas. It's the same story

So it's actually you know, it's it's actually a pretty good interpretation of it Yeah, it's a different style. Um, I do like the stylization but it's it was following I want to say the success of Oh Brother War at that where everything was kind of sepia Yeah, so But Christopher Walken Oh yeah, Christopher Walken's part and like it's that's that's peak Christopher Walken being being cast in a role. It's like We we know what your reputation is and we are going to make use of it to the fullest lean in reputation is and we are going to make use of it to the fullest. Lean in. Lean in hard. Yeah. So, but yeah, there's my recommendation. What are you going, or well, rather, are you findable right now? I am not findable at present, but we collectively can be found on our website at www.ge wubba wubba dot geek history time dot com

You can look through our archives find any number of old episodes on Topics find anything that you find interesting and give it a listen We can also be found on the Amazon podcast app on the Apple podcast app and on Spotify Apple podcast app, and on Spotify. Wherever it is that you do find us, please take a moment to give us the five star review that you know we deserve and hit the Subscribe button so we can add you to the consistently but slowing list, slowly growing list of people we know are following us. So how about you?

Let's see. March 7th, April 4th, May 2nd, June 6th, all these dates you can find me at 9 p.m. at the Comedy Spot in Sacramento with capital punishment spinning the wheel. We have merch. You should come buy some. You should get a ticket. If you do not live in the Sacramento metro area, then I strongly recommend you stream for half price of a ticket. But yeah, definitely come and see our show. So that's the the Capital Punishment at Sacramento Comedy Spot.

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