A Geek History of Time - Episode 308 - The Warren Commission, Watership Down Part II

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

We were saying that we were going to get into the movies. Yeah, and I'm only going to get into a few of them because there were way too goddamn many for me to really be interested in telling you this clone version or this clone version in the early studio system. It's a good metric to know in a story arc. Where should I be? Oh, there's Beast. I should step over here. At some point, I'm going to have to sit down with you

and force you, like pump you full of coffee and be like, no, okay, look. And are swiftly and brutally put down by the Minutemen who use bayonets to get their point across. Well done there. I'm good Damian, and I'm also glad that I got your name right this time. I apologize for that one TikTok video. Men of this generation wound up serving

a whole lot of them as a percentage of the population because of the war, because of a whole lot of other stuff. Oh yeah. And actually in his case, it was pre-war, but you know, I was joking. Did he seriously join the American Navy? He did fuck This is a Geek History of Time. Where we connect Nurgery to the real world. My name is Ed Blalock. I'm a world history teacher at the middle school level here in Northern California.

And we had a conversation just before we started that ended on a note of existential dread. And I have to share that my son tonight, who is now seven, asked me a question about, Daddy, is it possible to freeze time? And I blinked and I said well not really no and he said well But I I and I don't remember how he phrased it But it was something like I saw that if you get sucked into a black hole The time freezes and we had a whole conversation about you know time time expansion And I didn't get into speck you spaghettification by by you know the event horizon

Didn't want to have that talk right before he's supposed to be going to sleep, right? And and then he asked me you know so so what you know what exactly is a black hole? I said well you know it's when a star dies and collapses and and Becomes an object so dense that not even light can escape its gravity. I Said well now I'm kind of scared. And then I had to have a, I had to, I had to work through figuring out how to try to explain to him in terms that he could absorb just exactly how far the distance is between

us and, and, and, you know, the center of our galaxy. Cause I told him, you know, you, you know you know if there weren't if there weren't black holes we likely wouldn't be here because You know the center of our galaxy is made up of a cluster of supermassive black You know it's center etc, and I had to I had to explain to him. Just how far away that was In terms that a seven-year-old can understand And I got done explaining that to him and he was fine and you know, I came in here to record. And now the the gremlin in the back of my own brain is going to be staring at the ceiling in

the middle of the night tonight thinking about just how massive the black holes are at the center of our galaxy and that is something that occasionally randomly pops up in my head that gives me existential dread. So there you go. So how about you. Well I'm Damian Harmony I'm a high school history teacher up here in northern California. a high school history teacher up here in Northern California. And I got into painting this week, specifically painting things that I've printed out from my 3D printer, which I'm bad at painting. I'm not very good at it. I have no training. I have no practice. I do things that I sent you pictures of are like items three and four that I've ever painted And you know if you get a closer look you'd be like oh, yeah shits off

But as it stands like they look pretty cool I painted I put together and painted a stand that holds all the kyber crystals for our lightsabers Yeah, then I painted a a pedestal for my daughter's lightsaber and I nature themed it. And yeah, that was actually really that's that's a sleek bit of work. The shape of that particular stand. I really I really appreciate the swampy minimalism. Yes.'s very nice and and the paint job You know in the photos that I that I saw like I didn't look at it and go. Oh, yeah No, this is clearly rookie work No, it looked we look great, so yeah, it looks fine

but the the Ultimate compliment that I got for it was when my daughter saw it today for the first time in person She's like wow it's even cooler in person. I'm like All right cool Nice, so yeah, very cool. Yeah, so no existential dread here oddly enough um Yeah, remarkable. Yeah. Yeah, he's done her track record boy. Howdy Yeah, that's okay. I'm still manning the presses as far as our podcast goes so it will be existential dread because it's watershed down Damn it. Yeah, so

Stop sniffing glue When last we spoke um the Inspiration for big wig had died inspiration for big wig had died And we we read all about that and I said, okay, so that's all the the kind of I Last episode was all about the influences that went into Adams, right? Right that went into his What influenced him in in writing the the book now I'm going to shift because

This isn't actually about the book. This is about the movies right and so we need to take a look back at about 1975 The Halcyon days of 19 Yeah, oh oh even better yeah even better yeah We've we've we've made the point any number of times That the 70s were just a grim decade Yeah, the only three good things that came out of the 70s were me you and producer George like I mean, okay Also, mrs. Producer George and mrs. Blaylock. Yeah, I didn't know she was Yeah, yeah Yeah, no 18 months younger than me. Oh wow so she's older than me. Okay. Yeah, you know I like older women

Let her know tell her I said those exact words. I'm sure it'll go over well Yeah That'll be between you and me. That's not Not a good plan no, okay You're gonna lose you had Actually my my partner also came out of the 70s. There's a few good things. Yeah, yeah, you know it happened, but by and large those were the bright lights in In terms of geopolitics there was really yeah, you know, it wasn't good. No, it was pretty grim Oh, so so in 1975 a fellow named Martin Rosen bought the movie rights to watershed down

Now it cost him 50,000 pounds to buy the rights and he didn't have that money So he also got the assistance of a fellow named Jake Ebbets Jake Ebbets would go on to produce Gandhi and chariots of fire. Oh Okay, dude could pick winners Apparently, yeah now the the right now we have and now I have Vangelis stuck in my head I just said chariots of fire and sure You know anyway, sorry carry that's okay, so

It cost them 50,000 pounds to buy the rights and then the filming budget was about 2.5 million dollars now Richard yeah in 1975 dollars and yet again, I did not do a a inflation calculator figured out But that could be easily remedied but It's like the first thing that comes up in my Google search every time

funny, but But for two point five million dollars they were gonna animate this. Now Richard Adams had done a ton of Tolkien-esque work on the book, which gave Rosen a ton to work with. He had a lot to pick from. So he was able to go through, and again the book was insanely popular and he knew that people would dig it So, you know, it's going to be something that like he can he can draw on quite a bit by the way, the equivalent of the Budget then would be about 15 million now Okay, so no small potatoes, but also 15 million is is a low-budget movie now like things have exploded. Yeah, like that's the thing about

Inflation calculators, they only give you one small piece of it. Yeah, so but anyway So they bought the rights. He's got a ton to work with Rosen does and this includes a glossary Speaking of Tolkien ask work and this includes a glossary, speaking of Tolkien-esque work, this includes a glossary to the fictional language of Lapine or Lepine that Richard Adams had developed for his book. I remember that. I remember while reading the book flipping to the back to look up terms. Oh really? Wait, hold on. Yeah. Wow. Well, so this glossary existed.

It's not a full language. He's not actually Tolkien. But there were fragments that were sprinkled usefully throughout the book, and many of which made their way into the movie. For instance, the word for car, rurudu, or the plural, which I liked this because, you know me, language nerd, adding the letters IL to the end of a word makes it plural. So, herudodue is singular, herudodeal is cars, right? Herudodue is car, herudodeal is cars. One of my favorite bits is that because the rabbits only have four digits on their paws They only count up to four Everything after after four is the word rare which means many One two three four prayer, and I just love that because they only had four yeah shades of

Gully dwarves from cringe is that the one two three and many? One too many. Oh, okay more than two gotcha. How many how many how many hobgoblins are there? Yeah more than two Okay, I could mean five that could mean an army yeah great. Thanks guys. That's that's awesome. Yeah useful Intel Who sent the dwarf again? Can we get a gnome on this? Yeah Now Richard Adams had also extensively Illustrated and mapped out the countryside that he so dearly revered Many of which made their way into the animated feature. It is actually after all visual medium

Yeah, um now originally Rosen wasn't set to be the director either into the animated feature. It is actually, after all, a visual medium. Now, originally, Rosen wasn't set to be the director either. That was supposed to be a man named John Hubley, but John Hubley and Martin Rosen disagreed on their vision of the film, and Hubley got pushed out. This leaves Rosen directing his first film. He'd originally wanted it to be a very gritty and focused on the conflict aspect of the film, whereas Hubley really liked the naturalism and the whimsy of the story.

So I mean, we're talking polar opposite takes on the book, both of which I think are entirely appropriate having never read it. But obviously Rosen won out. He had the money he dallied with the idea of live-action or puppetry Which is wild I'm really led. They didn't go with puppetry right leave that shit to Jim Henson If your last name is not Henson or you are not working for a company right as Henson in its name Yeah, don't do that

By the way, this is like the second film that I've looked at that was designed in the 70s Mm-hmm, you know, yeah, that's yeah. Well, that's not live-action The other one being the dark crystal But anyway Rosen won out he wanted Possibly live-action or puppetry, but eventually hand-drawn animation won the day Rosen also wanted there to be more exploration of the female characters At the very least Heisenthal a Because the book had them kind of out on the margins

And at the screening which is almost almost not going to happen because Animation Ghetto is everywhere, Rosen actually watched the film with then Prince Charles. Oh. I had to include that. Like that was just... Wow. Yeah. Now the film ended up grossing about $3.5 million, which I can't do that kind of math, but you spend 2.5 and you make back 3.5, that's-

Yeah, you made a million bucks. Yeah. That doesn't suck, yeah. In 1978 monies, right? Yeah, yeah. So definitely a hit. Now, at the time that it started production in 1976, Wilson had resigned from the Labor Party. Party remember we talked about him last time

Yeah, and the country was suffering big time The three-day week had cost the conservatives their majority, but that's kind of a blessing I think I talked about the three-day week last time right? Yeah. Yeah Because the Labour Party would be the ones who would ultimately win and just grab a hold of the reins at the worst possible fucking time. It would be like you finally broke into Thelma and Louise's car as it's going off the cliff. Like, yeah, just, oh damn, you know. So they're the ones, the Labour Party are the ones who end up stepping into power just when England needs to take a loan of four billion dollars from the IMF which

Holy shit England had to take out a loan from the IMF Yeah, the idea that that the United Kingdom would wind up in that position is is Anathema to their psyche. Well one and two it's it's you know a staggering To their psyche well one and you know, it's it's you know a staggering Thing when you look at the would you look at the course of history? It's really Really stunning You know, they were years. They're just 30 years removed from losing their empire. Yeah, and and You know London Had been the financial center of the world for yeah, you know a century

Yeah, you know New York had had taken that role over. I'd say I'll be reluctant to yeah Yeah After World War one they were like not getting the hint that they were the only ones powerful enough to do it Yeah, and after World War two like okay, okay, all right fine Yeah, you know but yeah, and and and even after that you know the London Stock Exchange was still Important yeah, you know and and to have You know the the former you know ruler of five of the seven continents of the world

You know lowered lowered to that state, right? You know Now it's alone in four billion. It's not like tens and twenties of billions Well, yeah, but still but still and and I'm sure they got a much more favorable rate than say Haiti would be for Well, yes, I think it's I think it's an unspoken an unwritten Agreement that you know if Haiti comes knocking everybody you know jacks the price is up, right? I mean, this is like Tony Soprano needing a bridge loan. You know this is you're not gonna charge him much loan. Yeah, you know

You're gonna be a little weird about trying to collect on it, too, but anyway, so Yeah, you know I'm gonna be a little weird about trying to collect on it, too, but anyway, so they It's gonna be awkward. Yeah But yeah, they took out a loan of four billion dollars Now this would mean massive austerity measures at home in The UK because the IMF loves insisting on on unhelpful shit like that when they lend money, even to colonizers. Now this means that Callahan, the new leader of the Labour Party, would oversee the loss of a majority and the need for a coalition with the Liberal Party, who has been irrelevant

for forever. Yes. Yeah. The Lib Lab packed as it was called Kept the ship of state from sinking and slowly but surely by 1978 when the movie was released They'd actually stabilized the economy Okay, see this is why you need to vote labor. Yeah. Yep. You know just saying Yeah Well, and yet vote labor no matter who has has gifted us with all kinds of dipshittery. Oh, yes, this is true There is there is the flip side to to my you know Barb, but yeah Yeah, but yeah now trailing indicators like all things that humans vote for Always trail right yeah, so and and like all things that humans vote for, always trail, right?

Yeah. So, and humans tend to vote for trailing indicators when they're voting. So the result is when a Callahan government failed to answer to the call of a general election, the same month that the movie came out, it was only a matter of time before, even though everything had stabilized

This should sound familiar Even though everything had stabilized they were still ready to turn the pillow back over. Yeah And interestingly amid all of this there were further reforms and developments that would actually help folks in England to have a safety net Of sorts, so even though it was a coalition government, a liberal and labor party, which means they did not have a mandate, even though the last time they had won, they did not have a mandate. They had barely won. Remember it was a hung parliament. And like it was, they'd won a majority of the seats with a minority of the votes, that kind of thing. So even though they were like razor thin things they pushed through things because that's the kind of system they have

They pushed through stuff that was genuinely helpful and the people didn't pay much attention to that It was slow getting to people perhaps or people were slow to recognize that that things had shifted There is yeah, there is As I have observed electoral politics over the course of my adult life There is a I think an in inherent tendency to not

Recognize what's helpful as rapidly or as viscerally yeah and Viscerally is really the part that counts sadly I would agree it's stuff that's helpful does not register as as quickly or as viscerally as Things that cause grievance things that cause yes difficulty or inconvenience or You know whatever so Yeah, that that totally tracks that like oh, yeah, no we got all this stuff done. We you know Made whatever reforms we made to the NHS to make it more responsive and do a better job

We did those are unexciting things whereas that's a frustration is exciting Yeah, I mean they they National insurance benefits went up by 17 percent That is hard to like that. I mean, that's really important. That's not chump change, right? It's really important It is hard to run on that it. Yeah. Well, yeah, you know because 17 percent doesn't sound like a big number, right? It's not like your check is 50 percent bigger than it was you know right, but 17% fuck. I take that raise Shit yes, I lose that much weight

You know yeah and Yeah, and what you said would get me from morbidly obese to curiously obese. Yeah, yeah I And what you said would get me from morbidly obese to curiously obese, you know, yeah, yeah I Want to say it's Jim, right? I fit I want to say stonekettle station. Uh-huh logger one of the things that that he said this is now several years ago that has stuck with me since is Government should be boring right when government does its job. It's dull Yes

When you are actually being governed by people who take it seriously and are actually trying to do a good job at it It's boring. You know good governance is Good governance is really dull board meetings. Yeah, like we agree on the speed bumps You know, you're right. This this gymnasium does need new flooring. Yeah like that. Yeah, like yes precisely and and We yeah and and as a species We don't notice that as a species we don't notice that we're not we're not wired to notice that we're wired to notice a leopard in the woods right even when there isn't a

leopard there which is a whole other issue mm-hmm but kind of tangentially related to this like you know so yeah unfortunately you can do all kinds of great stuff and still lose an election because It's not catchy Yeah So pensions also rose speaking of not catchy Which meant that the inflation? Which the Lib Labs had finally gotten back down below 10% by 78 would hurt less for folks who are on fixed incomes So they gave bigger pensions to people

and they brought inflation down. Again, like that, like on, that should get you a lot of fucking votes, but it's so dull and pensions are in the future anyway. Yeah, it's hard to make it punchy. Yeah, you know. It's hard to make that into a sound Yeah, you know, it's hard to make that into a sound bite. Rent and food subsidies followed and went up. So again, we're making

it easier for you to live, but you're still mad about. But amid all of this, it was easy for conservatives to use the rhetoric of making Britain great again. They had again, they had been the largest empire ever, right, and it was easy during tough times to pull on the former greatness button to, well, you don't pull on a button, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah.

To secure votes. Pull on that heart string. Yeah, to secure votes. And in 1979, that absolutely happened. But in 1978, December and November of 1978, when the movie came out, the resonance of a feckless leadership that necessitated people breaking the rules and striking off on their own to create their own private welfare systems in a different Warren was scorchingly attractive as a concept.

And so while kids loved the scary movie about how bunnies beat each other bloody the adults could also nod along and sympathize with hazel as he was silenced by Threera and then had to use his own common sense to convince the Ousla to leave him in his party B as they sought a better life elsewhere Mm-hmm now at first I Have to confess that at first At first, I have to confess that at first, I could not find any British movie reviews of Watership Down that were contemporaneous with its release.

And originally, I just typed this in. I must confess here that I could not find any British movie reviews of Watership Down that were contemporaneous with this release. The best I could do was the Montreal Gazette from January 79. But then something happened and I'll get to that and The the review in Montreal completely focuses on the animation the beauty of the animation the acceptability to both kids and adults and the visual features the only mention of things that Like we like here a geek history of time is that the people who love the allegory of Adams's book would be disappointed by the movie

But the author never mentioned the actual allegory that Adams was discussing. So Mmm now all of that was true and that was gonna be the only paragraph dealing with the reviews Until I reached out to the Mitchell Public Library in Glasgow, and boy, did they fucking deliver. Big thanks to Sarah Brand, a very accommodating and helpful librarian who gave me all that she could find. So, I do have movie reviews from- Nice.

That are contemporaneous with the release. Terry Grimley, writing for the Birmingham Daily Post, out of what city I couldn't figure out, but in November of 78 78 he reviewed the movie by saying, quote, I am not sure who the film is really for. Children who have already read the book, perhaps. Children who have not read the book will probably enjoy the film as a straightforward adventure story. But they may well be confused when, for example, an animal, which is quite obviously a fox, is referred to as a

Homba on the other hand the Lord of the Rings style pseudo mythology and its accompanying vocabulary does not seem enough to sustain interest for an adult audience Because this is 78 and 79 So this is November of 78 What had just come out as an animated film? Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, norman smith writing for the maidstone telegraph out of maidstone kent, which has its own really funny history that I won't get into here it's really interesting with the the the original founders of it getting arrested for shit, um

He's also writing in november 78 and he had little to say about the movie but this did stick out to me in his review. He said quote, Richard Adams's story which has inspired something of a cult has been turned into an animated feature. The reason it stuck out was that even in his introduction Smith was pointing out how much people loved the prior iteration in print. Smith was pointing out how much people loved the prior iteration in print. It was impossible to pull them apart He didn't do much else besides recount the plot. So I'm not gonna belabor him Then Jay Scott who was writing for the Toronto Globe and Mail in January of 79 Jay Scott reviewed the movie as well now Jay Scott's own history is interesting enough to put up here

Jay Scott came to Canada in 1969 from New Mexico to dodge the draft. Initially, he settled in Canada's Texas, Calgary, and wrote theater and film reviews for the Calgary Albertan a couple of years after settling there. Now from the success that he found doing that, Scott moved to Toronto in 1977 to write for the Toronto Globe and Mail, and he stayed with them until his untimely death in 1993 from AIDS-related complications. Now while there, J. Scott established himself as one of the foremost film critics in the English speaking world. Roger Ebert called Scott a, quote, supremely well-informed critic who was able to translate his knowledge into superb prose that transmitted his passion for the movies. Oh wow. So dude's pretty qualified. Here's what Jay Scott

said, quote, neither Adams's novel nor the very fine delicate and sometimes beautiful film writer director Martin Rosen has made from it is An exact political allegory. Although there are certain certainly references to Hitler to his gas chambers to unionization to revolution And to something which falls under the rubric of good old-fashioned American individualism and stick-to-itiveness Which I just you can take the American out of America, but you can't take the American out of the American, you know? Yeah. It's interesting that he's absolutely writing

from the American perspective, while working in a town that's in the British Commonwealth. Yeah, for an audience primarily. Yeah. Within the British Commonwealth. Right. Now, he also ties the rabbits into the classics the Homeric mythos He finishes his review does Scott with this quote There's a great deal of reality in this movie a fair amount of blood and a fair amount of death

Parents are more apt to feel squeamish about this than their children There's nothing as devastating as the death of Bambi's mother in about this than their children. There is nothing as devastating as the death of Bambi's mother. In Watership Down, some of the rabbits are unlucky and some live to old age. When they do die, their deaths are treated with sympathy but not morbidity. The message is that life is hard and difficult but that it's fun and rewarding too. These bunnies are treated with more realism than most of our escapist films bring to bear on human subjects and with more compassion than most of our political films find it politic to display. Of its type, Watership Down is a modern classic. Right. Wow. So yeah, it's getting reviewed pretty well, although there's some question as to who's this film for and that seems to be kind of an ongoing thing.

And it's never reviewed out of context from either Disney or Adams's books Scott had a fellow writer named Ray Conlogue Conlogue Writing for the following year in January 79 for the same publication. Actually, he interviewed Martin Rosen about Watership Down quote he interviewed Martin Rosen about Watership Down. Quote, Rosen, though American, was reverently careful of the story's Englishness. He researched the Beatrix Potter,

George MacDonald tradition of animal tales and found that some modern exponents like Ursula Le Guin and Richard Adams were influenced by Carl Jung's mythic psychology. El Arera, Arer, Arera, El arera, the mythical cultural hero of the rabbits is a very Jungian character. Yeah, okay. I can see that. Yeah. Now in the interview, Rosen said that he was specifically chasing the British watercolor tradition of painting landscapes in the film. And if you've seen it, it absolutely does the job.

Yeah, that tracks. That tracks. Rosen also went on to lament the innovative things that he tried because they were exceedingly expensive and they didn't work. And as a result of that, the fact that the shots that he really wanted weren't adding anything visually to the film, so they often ended up on the cutting room floor.

And you gotta remember, this is 78, 79, I mean, they're making it in 76 and 75, so there were spin around shots dealing with, oh God, what's his name, Cods, no, Cowslip, the one who was just that really weird, that really weird, you know, that really weird Warren that just accepted that people got snared sometimes. Yeah.

You know, and he tried to do a really cool filmic thing and it worked, but it didn't add anything. So he was like, yeah, that was cool, but so. Alan Childs writing for the Wokingham Times in November of 78 said that Watership Down was cut down but not ruined. It's entirely through the lens of comparing the movie to the book. He spends paragraphs discussing the book and the trouble with doing a movie based on a book and how good the book was and then when he

gets to the movie Alan Child says quote as a consequence much of the depth and Richard Adams's work is lost in the need to get on with the story, which is a great shame as It is this which lifts from just another tale from about bunnies to a classic Now he did point out that editing was necessary the end that either you edit out scenes Or you water down the characters and that the producers did in fact make the right choice because this is a feature length film. Yeah.

Quote, it would have been very hard to lose episodes. However, as every incident leads on to onto another. So what had to go was the entire rabbit culture, which is underpinning the book. It is reduced on this level to a comment on the way the world runs on par with Disney cartoons ie superficial at its deepest And there's a lot of comparison to Disney films. It's kind of like when we were oh god Barely in our you know late teens early 20s and like the movie Anastasia came out

Yeah, or honestly when we were younger and an American Tale came out anytime a Don Anastasia came out. Oh yeah. Or honestly when we were younger and An American Tale came out. Anytime a Don Bluth film came out basically. Yeah, there was the immediate and overwhelming need to compare to Disney. Exactly. Yeah. And so this kind of is doing the same thing

at a time when movies like The Rescuers or pretty soon you're gonna see Fox and the Hound come out, you know Yeah, you're seeing like the late 70s movies of Disney the really strangely realistic movement of dogs and cats Yeah Being especially accurate and strangely so in how yeah and actually accurate and strangely so in how yeah and the Like attempts at you know it looked like trying to kind of experiment with rotoscoping and yet it wasn't rotoscoping

Yeah, you know Whereas you know Ralph Bakshi totally reddish couple shit out of it. Yeah and and Yeah, it was it was a weird again. It was just a weird time I mean lots of different ways. It's it's a style. It's a style that existed at the time and So I understand needing to compare But it also there are a couple things I noticed from a lot of these number one reviewers have always been full of themselves and like

It's you know it's kind of a necessary trait for a critic Yeah, if you're if you're going to do it and even and if you're going to do it well There's a certain level of you know I know some shit and let me explain to you how I know some shit right you know And I will say this um here. I am doing a podcast about this I Can't really be commenting that big thing on the critics like right right yeah, but But yeah, so they they will do that or they'll pull in young or they will you know they'll compare to Disney like those are Or they'll compare to the book right yeah. So despite a fairly damning review though, Alan Childs admits to actually enjoying the film.

He says, quote, I say that for all the people who have read the book and are wondering to go and see the film in case it strays from their visions of what Hazel and Fiverr and all the rest should look and sound alike, yes, it is worth it if you enjoy cartoons of this type. If you're the sort of person who spends hours looking for Allegories rather than enjoying a story don't bother but the rest of you make the effort

I don't think you'll be as disappointed as you thought you would be as a cartoon considered separately from the book. It's so well done Okay, so Okay, he's a British reviewer. I mean. Yeah, like. Yeah. And now finally a review, albeit a short one, from the West Sussex County Times in December of 78, echoing a common refrain through most of the other reviews from the UK. Essentially, it's not as sentimental a film as Disney films.

One review went so far as to say it had a limited pathos Which would be appreciated more by British audiences than American audiences. Yeah You know, I'd like to be I'd like to be a little bit more insulted by that. Yeah, but Honest yeah, but cultural differences are a thing. Yep. We like our schmaltz. We do, and I'm okay with that.

Yeah. You know? Now, on to the movie. The film opened with an animation that was very different stylistically from the rest of the film. If you recall, the opening is a creation myth that absolutely and immediately immerses the audience in the lapine language

With its quick substitutions frith, which is as far as I can figure out the Sun God Because when they talk about frith rise and stuff like that Ella rara And it immediately that's the black bunny And they immediately gets bloody That's the black bunny Um, and they immediately gets bloody But in a way that is reminiscent of the stylings of what show up on animal skins or caves And it's actually based on aboriginal australian art

The I do remember that part The animation was also somewhat frenetic and pulsing with its movement. Uh, but the narration explains everything quote This is frith talking to Elrere, all the world will be your enemy, prince of a thousand enemies, and when they catch you they will kill you, but first they must catch you. Digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning, be cunning and full of tricks and your people will never be destroyed. cunning and full of tricks and your people will never be destroyed. Yeah.

And at that it switches to the animation that is very British, 1970s animation, a very realistic, but slightly stiff presentation of nature and the world in general, very much a mixture of overly detailed movements and still lives. It's watercolor come to life on some level. When I was seven, this was right up there with Charlotte's Web. Okay, yeah. Anyhow, as they're doing the establishing shots of the fields and the farmlands,

which is all about like the watercolor presentation of the countryside, you hear two men building something. And you hear quote, along the edge of that would there enjoyed many a game of play from it too. And it's like in media ray, right? Like they're in the middle of a conversation and then quote, Oh, well, you can't hold back progress. Shame, though. So that's, besides the animation, or besides the myth, that's the first dialogue we hear. And it just seems very, very Richard Adams. Now, two men are talking and building,

lamenting on how the area is being lost to progress. Remember all the housing that we saw. And then we finally see Hazel. And Hazel and Fiverr are lamenting that the Owsla are bullies and taking all the good grazing food. And then Fiverr has his vision after sniffing the men's footprints unwittingly.

The music and the animation pick up a fair bit to try to show the visions through Fiverr's eyes. Fiverr starts spreading the word with Hazel, supporting him and taking Fiverr to the chief rabbit, Threera. It's established that Bigwig and Hazel don't really know each other very well. A lot of the dialogue also happens off screen, which I just get a kick out of for some reason.

You know, people talking to you as they go into the other room kind of thing. Now, the chief rabbit doesn't even recognize hazel and he does a very poor job of faking it. I think he calls him a or walnut actually. He's also old, deep in a burrow and fairly aloof and self-involved. He's also in no hurry to do much of anything and responds quite a bit with questions both rhetoric and Socratic And his response is very easily characterized as out of touch and bureaucratic Mm-hmm. So here's the the dialogue that you hear between the two of them

Ah walnut, it is walnut, isn't it? No, sir. Hazel hazel, of course I knew your mother well and your friend my brother sir fiber Your brother. Ah now do tell me how I can help you Well, he says there's a bad danger coming to our warrant a bad danger a bad danger. How very upsetting now What sort of danger I wonder I don't know but it's bad. It's so bad. Well now what ought we to do? Go away all of us now Now in May the mating season and where ought we to do? Go away. All of us. Now? Now? In May? The mating season? And where would we go to? He's had these feelings before, and he's been right again and again. I shall have

to consider this very carefully. Perhaps we'll discuss it later, in the summer. We can't wait. We can't wait. Well, it's been good of you to come, Walnut. And then Hazel and Fyre leave. Wait, well, it's been good of you to come walnut and then hazel and fire relief and then he shouts to big wig big wig Big wig sir. What was that all about? Well, sir. Your duty as an officer is to protect this bro. Yes, sir Those two lunatics better be watched. Yes, sir. So all the energy is Being put on the whistleblowers. Yeah, I mean just It's a little bit on the whistleblowers. Yeah. I mean, just. It's a little bit on the nose, ain't it? So, now then, off the bunnies run that night

with a few who are actually frightened enough to come and be convinced, and as they're leaving, they pass a sign, and the sign says, quote, this ideally situated estate comprising six acres of excellently excellent building land is to be developed with a high class modern residence by such and Martin of Newbury. Yep. Yeah. Housing. Yeah. And Newbury. Mm hmm. Where Richard

Adams grew up? Yeah. Yeah, so big wig joins them actually And then Holly tries to arrest all of them captain Holly of the Ousla tries to arrest all of them for spreading dissension and fomenting mutiny the rabbits looking to leave realize that it's just the captain of the Ousla and they threaten to kill him and He actually is like fucking bring it and he actually attacks until Bigwig jumps him from behind and drives him off. And while Bigwig definitely advocates for the rabbits who need rest, Hazel actually decides that they need to push on.

So Bigwig joins them. And Bigwig is like, hey, there are some guys that are flagging. And Hazel's like, I get that, but we gotta get past these woods. And this is the first time that we actually see Hazel's decisiveness and good judgment at play, and it works out for them. And Big Wig is is cool with it.

Now, despite Big Wig's strength and power, he actually follows Hazel's lead and adapts to enacting Hazel's plans pretty quickly. The amount of lovely detail in establishing the shots is really quite something, too. I really strongly recommend people watch it. There's a bottle buried amongst the sand at the riverbank and it's not used any kind of plot device at all. It's just part of the scenery. There's a diving bird getting breakfast as you're scrolling past and Fiverr lets them know what his vision has them chasing. Quote, I know what we ought to be looking for for a high lonely place with dry soil where we can see and hear all around and men hardly ever come and

Big Wig actually So so a dog starts barking at them in the woods and Big Wig says shit. That's a fucking dog Let's get out of here and hazel's like we're all a group here. We can't we can't just bounce and big wigs like if we all bolt leave people to their fate and some of us will survive and Hazel actually counter mans him and kind of reprimands him and he says quote that's not good enough We got into this together and we'll get out of it together

Now there's also like a Like what is it? Um, I think it's also like a, like a, what is it? I think it's just like a small, small piece of fencing or something. And Blackberry is the smart and clever rabbit and Hazel praises him for it after they managed to cross the river with the ones who can't swim on the floaty thing with Big Wig and a few others pushing the floaty thing. And everybody sticks together and everybody actually lives. And there's a lot of rabbit-based misadventures

throughout this iteration. There's all sorts of creatures and antagonizing them as they go through, fulfilling the myth, you will always be chased. Preach of a thousand enemies. Exactly. There's plenty of discussion and doubt as they go along. But you know, pretty much everybody's on board.

It's just kind of like the fine tuning. And sometimes like you need a little bit of convincing. But nobody outwardly just like says, no, fuck this, I'm done. Fiverr has another vision and Bigwig sticks up for Hazel during the doubt. Like people start doubting Hazel and big wigs like no No, we all followed him this far. We're gonna keep following him Then they meet the really weird fucking rabbit Warren that accepts visitors and listens to stories and this is cow slips Warren, okay

How slip has a Warren or he's part of a Warren? He's not the leader, but he he's kind of the emissary And the Warren smells like man and they actually don't like listening to stories of trickery Because they prefer stories of dignity and accepting their fate Which is anathema to bunnies and so of course when big wig gets caught in a snare Hazel is again decisive but cowslowslip just kind of likes, yes, this happens. And he disdains them for fighting against the inevitability of death.

Cowslip is actually voiced by Denham Elliott, by the way. So who is the, Marcus Brody. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Johnna Jones. Right. Now, eventually, Holly catches up to them. And Captain Holly catches up to them after they've freed big wig from the snare. They realize, oh, if you bite down here, and

you can, you know, help big wig, not suffocate. He actually seems to fall dead for a few minutes, and then they all mourn him and then he gasps back to life And I go thank goodness and at this point big wigs 100% on board with hazel like previously He'd been standing for him pretty strongly, but had his own doubts and now he's like now hazel saved my fucking life It's calling him hazel raw So eventually Captain holly catches up to them and This following discussion and says quote. He's been hurt. Look at that wound on his shoulder and then quote I remember you you're the one that saw it coming. Holly says this to a fiber They say but what happened? He says our Warren was destroyed destroyed

How men came filled in the burrows couldn't get out. There was a strange sound. You see the air turned bad Runs were blocked with dead bodies. I couldn't get out everything turned mad Warren herbs roots grass all pushed into the earth and Then one of them says men have always hated us Holly corrects him says no, they just destroyed the Warren because we were in their way They'll never rest until they've spoiled the earth I tried to find you I wandered for days the effer fins wouldn't let me go. They ripped my ear They ripped it. I tried to find you and Shortly after this exchange the the film returns to a doe speaking to her chief rabbit in their old Warren

So it like kind of fades back to the the the efference. And one of the guards says a young doe has a request sire and the chief who will will get on we'll get to his name in a bit. It's wound work actually. The chief says a doe wants to see me, and she says she represents a group, sire. Hmm, I see. Your name? Heisenthlae, sir. Well, don't be frightened. You're safe here. Get on with it. Sir, several of us proposed an expedition to start. A new warren somewhere. A new warren? Out of the question. But you

don't understand. The system is breaking down explain that Some of us cannot produce litters were overcrowded. I want no further discussion about it We'll go as far as you like here or anywhere else. I Thank you, sir. And then he turns to his commander and says campion have her watched So that's two chief rabbits now whose whose major focus was to push down dissent. Yeah, control the troublemakers. Yeah. So you never see the Chief Rabbit until the very end when he says to have her watched, by the way, and then like kind of shadows over his two different colored eyes.

So by my count, that's four exchanges wherein the government structures are of no fucking help whatsoever and Work actively to suppress those who are seeking the support of those in charge and offering solutions to fix the problems This was written in 1976 as a screenplay It was released at the end of 78. Yeah, And then we see that the Runaway Bunnies, I have been waiting the whole episode to say that, are literally ascending, climbing via their own efforts to get to the top of a hill that Fiverr has foreseen. And when they get to the top, the music is triumphant

and then comforting as the rabbits all reflect on how perfect the countryside is. Quote, he made it for all of us, which is as British as it gets. Yes. And American. Yeah. They're overlooking these rolling fields.

And there's a fun little rejoinder after that too. Quote, Frith may have made it, but Fiverr found it. And there's just something that's like very defiantly self-reliant about it. And then after that they meet Zero Mustole, the gull. Right. You know. Yeah, it's just so fun. You stupid bunnies

and The problems that they have is the Romulus problem Which is finally we have a place We got no women We we need this to not be a sausage fest right like Our very survival. Yeah, this did not be a sausage fest right yeah So and while this is happening Holly's returned to his senses, and he tells them all about effraff And both the farm and effraff have females. There's a farm that they pass by

And hazel starts concocting plans to solve both of their issues, their issues being, we need women. And he hands the danger of both things. He handles it in his mind in ways that work. So it's dangerous to go to the farm, because there's a cat and there's a dog. It's dangerous to go to the Efrifah, because they're fucking militant fascists.

Yeah. And he figures out a way to make it all work together for him. So he has big rig, big rig. He has the Kevin Nash. And the only picture. Picturing a rabbit wearing a trucker hat. wearing a trucker hat. On his mudflaps it has a human. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So Bigwig infiltrates the really fascist Ephra-Pha and Hazel works the other end of things by figuring out how to free the does from their hutches at the farm. So touches at the farm. So eventually Bigwig leads a bunch of does of effor far away. They he fights with wound wart for a little bit before bouncing off

and they use the boat to get away from wound wart same trick as before. This of course is going to set up the invasion because wound warts not going to take this lying down. And the invasion is started by Woundwort making demands and Hazel is trying to find a way that they can all live in peace. It doesn't work and the Warren is being attacked and besieged by Woundwort's men. There's plenty to talk about here, but it's best that people just watch it happen. And one of the reasons I say that is because if you see that one, then my more detailed description of the second iteration,

will, you'll see how these things are bouncing off each other. Right. So all that to say, Hazel uses his knowledge of the surrounding area and he breaks the siege by leading the farm dog away from the farm that he'd stolen the does from. Um, and basically he gets like his five swiftest runners and they relay race the dog up the hill to attack the effer fence, uh, all the way up there. Um,

and what's interesting is actually in this one big wig and Wound wart are fighting in the in the Warren a second time. Yeah, and and Wound wart is like, you know, I'm gonna take you down. I'm gonna murder you and blah blah and big wig is like my chief told me to guard this Warren and that's what I'm gonna fucking do. And it's, so Wundwort, he thinks that Bigwig is the chief. They're fighting, there's a lot of murder of other ancillary bucks. That's the stuff we tend to remember so starkly. And while they're fighting hard and viciously,

Bigwig says, yeah, my chief's told me to defend the run, to defend this run. And that stuns Wundwort until he runs outside because he's like, you're chiefs, you're not the chief? What the fuck? Because to Wundwort, strength and vigor and size. Being the biggest is what makes you the chief. Exactly. But Wundwort hears just pandemoniumium outside so he goes outside to see what's going on And he finds that the dog is just waylaying the fuck out of all of his soldiers And the blood is just running He yells at them to come back and fight and that dogs aren't dangerous and when the dog comes over the hill

He and wound wart dive at each other and we kind of see it from underneath mmm, and then and we kind of see it from underneath. And then it like kind of pauses and fades and you hear the narration say, General Woonwort's body was never found. Mm. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah.

Now through the cleverness of freeing the females in the farm, as well as the females from Ephra-Pha, and fighting off the Ephra-Pha in a way that I did not mean to put that many Fs together, in a way that utilized the strengths of all the rabbits in his warren, take the swiftest ones, do the clever thing, put Woundwort off balance, fight hard when you have to, I'm going to bring a dog. Hazel rescued his Warren and kept his Warren safe by way of sticking to the creation myth concept of what it is to be a rabbit. Yes.

The reason that Woundwort died was because he didn't. Yep. Hazel's and same thing with Cowslip and all of them. They weren't they no true Scotsman. Right. Like no true rabbit. And Hazel's Warren grew strong and stable, untouched and unharmed by man. Hazel's reward was getting to die knowing that he'd built something lasting and safe. And honestly, I hope that I could have such a death inasmuch that I'm going to have to fucking die. But god damn, that made me sad as a kid. My dad tried to explain it to me that it was a good thing

that Hazel died in the end. And it didn't take until much later. Yeah, one of the vivid. I have associated with that film Mm-hmm is besides the jewel in the blood yeah besides besides that Oh my god, you know violence associated trauma was the The I did I didn't understand what the emotion was at the at the end because I

understood that I wasn't that I mean I was sad because he's dying but the way it was the way it was presented with with you know the the black the black bunny yeah showing up yeah and that whole sequence that that I have I have vivid recollection of The black bunny and not entirely understanding because I hadn't I hadn't seen the whole film. I right, you know tune in late but understanding that there was There was something going on there that was maybe not exactly happy, but fulfillment.

I didn't have the emotional vocabulary at the age at which I saw it to understand it, but I remember being very powerfully affected and not really knowing why. Yeah. So, yeah, it's amazing. It is just in my recollection. It's an amazing sequence. Yeah, I really, I also struggled because to me it was sad because he died, right? You know, and why do things have to die? But like, it wasn't treated as sad. Yeah. It was like, it was treated as sad when Big Wig was thought to be dead. That was treated as sad. Yeah. This wasn't like, and yeah, you know, just yeah, it was really interesting. Like, now that I'm older, closer to that, I still don't know that I have the vocabulary for what the sentiment is, because it's not relief.

It's not quite contentment, because he would have been happy to go on, but it is like, it's not resignation, because there's no sadness to it either. It's, I don't know. It's far more mature emotionally than I'm capable of, I think, when it comes to death. You know what? It reminds me of how Ray described Luke's death, peace and purpose. Yeah. You know? know yeah very much

so Anyway, with the exception of sequences at which you know cried like a fucking baby. Yeah Oh, no see that one didn't make me cry nearly as much as Han getting run through by his own son. Oh Yeah, well like yeah the touch on the cheek just oh so Yeah wreckage absolutely emotional wreckage, but yeah But but when I say stop like a baby, I cried like a baby. It wasn't it wasn't you know? Sadness it was it was that same. Yeah, you know it was this is this is the best ending

Yeah, I guess you know this is this is the perfect. This is the perfect way for this arc To end this is this is how this should end Yeah, if it has to this is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah So with the exception of our protagonist and his friends every single fucking authority was aloof overbearing worthless or a fascist Aloof overbearing worthless or Fix that for you or all of the above plus evil. Yeah Yeah, not a single one should be in charge, but they all were by virtue of the structures that they were in single one should be in charge, but they all were by virtue of the structures that they were in.

Yeah, they've all just been propped up by the system. Yeah. Yeah. They rose up through a flawed system. They continue to maintain the flawed system to their deaths and the deaths of those who do not have the ability to challenge them. Yeah. And and what really got me was that every authoritative rabbit was fat and old and largely sedentary. Like not a one of them acted like the rabbits in the creation myth. No, the message is pretty clear. Such leadership is unbunny like. It's a perversion of the rabbit's very nature. It's the thing that if you go all the way back to, I think it was episode 27,

the way that they talked about the Thieves Guild versus the Fighters Keep. Oh yeah. It's, you know, we are softened by our civilization if you go back to episode 20, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's a very it's a very Robert E Howard would have would have had a lot to say about it. Sure, you know And I was in the Navy, right?

No, oh no remarkably enough Oh, that's Heinlein and all the other a start with a line. No Robert E. Howard is the author of Conan Oh, right. Right. Oh, yeah. He's the one he's the one who committed suicide at like 22. Yeah. Yeah And it's that civilization as a corrosive impact. Yes. Yeah, it fattens us and sates us and makes us Yeah, go against our very nature vitality Yes leads to lesbianism which like for whatever reason was was a like was a fetish of his You know like he had he had this weird you know outer horror kind of kind of Terror associated with it, which you know I don't know is the 20s, but And he was from Texas. I don't know there you go, but

You know, I think I think There could be Also something something to be said about like the life cycle of a burrow or a or a civilization, you know, is there is in his boots down the stairs and it slippers. Yeah, you know, and, and I, I don't know enough about the naturalism of bunnies to, to say this with confidence,

of bunnies to say this was confidence. But it kind of makes sense to me that after a certain number of generations in a warren, you would wind up having those kind of circumstances where everything is established. And you wind up having population issues, you wind up having, you know, whatever the bunny equivalent of casts is, you know, that kind of stuff,

because we've seen that happening in other mammals. Yeah, I think, you know, a thing to keep in mind is these rabbits are the only rabbits in nature that actually warren up, all the rest of them don't My daughter found this out when she was researching the shit out of rabbits after having watched this Yeah, it turns out this is the only kind of rabbit that does the Warren thing all the rest. Oh really not Yeah, I was stunned to find that out and i'm happy to be corrected If you're correcting me you're correcting my eight-year-old daughter at the time

Which is fine So when you say this kind of you mean the the rabbits of the English downs yes European I think they're called European Rex's Or your I forget exactly what they're but they're not jack rabbits. They're not the American rabbits are not rabbits Trying to make a comparison between any any species from the Americas and any species from Europe like okay, I can look at that and I can tell that an American jack rabbit is like related to European rabbit, but after that, yeah, like we we are North America is the Florida of

wild animal species like you know Niles Australia of American species yeah, yeah You know Nile Nile crocodiles probably look at you know the crocodiles and alligators in Florida and go What is your problem man? in Florida and go What is your problem, man? No, you know one of my favorite one of my favorite comparisons because I kind of consider the badger kind of my my philia

Like my totem animal, right? It's looking a European badger and next to it. Look at it. Look at an American badger And yeah, it's like, you know The joke is a European badger will you know invite you into his into his little little house for for tea and scones? And an American badger will you know shiv you an alley for your pocket change? So you know you make the comparisons like it's not a jackrabbit No, son very few things in the world are like Jack right yeah, you know it's and I'm not even getting to swamp rabbits They'll attack presidents like

These guys warren up you know yeah, and you know yeah, I and now I'm curious If this was the variety Or the breed of rabbit that got introduced to Australia by mistake I believe not by mistake, but but then went went, you know I believe it was but I could be wrong because I remember it. I remember seeing it in a movie Yeah, I forget what the movie was even called. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway like so these these rabbits are Perverting the rabbits nature and not doing what fritz said would keep them alive

And leaving behind what made them successful in favor of the simple comforts of being in the Warren and being in charge Right absolutely to the detriment of the rabbits in their Warren That makes sense in 1978 when there's energy crises, there's all these things happen. So of course you're going to want to hire somebody that's going to make Britain greater, Grant, and bring back that masculinity, that virility. Vitality.ity vitality and who better to do that than Maggie Thatcher yeah so yeah who better yeah who better you know yeah and actually I'm gonna leave it there because we all know that story We all know what happened after and that's when this film released, right?

It's in 78 and then you get the election in 79 and The conservatives sweep through if you want to find out more of what they did then absolutely go back to episodes 2 and or 3 And 4 I think it was that Ed did on warhammer Because that's where she really gets covered a lot Yes, and yes, I believe I also cover her Somewhere I forget where well, I mean she comes up as Vendetta stuff. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah another place where hi we're gonna We're gonna spend a long time talking about how Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative Party in the late 70s were you know?

Basically Satan's agents on earth. Yes. Yes. Just here you go Oh What's that? Is that the post-war consensus? Hold on. Let me get my lighter You know yeah So unions the hell you say right All they ever brought us was a three-day work week. It's like that's the point So we're trying to have a civilization here late I come on we a welfare state better against fascism like that was the whole fucking point like that

That's beverage. That's yeah, and and that's the thing is like being upset that the welfare state is unwieldy and unruly and Run by fat heads who don't want to do shit is a legit gripe The trick is don't throw don't burn the house down with the bath water Nice nice. I like thank you. I like that. That's that is that is an excellently effective malapropism. I Love that Malafor yeah Malafor. Yeah, it's still my favorite is I wouldn't trust him with a 10-foot pole. Yeah I get entirely what you mean by that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah

There you go, so you want to glean anything this time? Oh? That is a pointed question sir yes Just one one of the things that that really Struck me that that was was running full speed in the back of my head while we were talking about it, was this was, you know, all of the themes that we've talked about, all of the stuff that you mentioned, all of this happened in what was ostensibly a kids movie in 1978.

Yep. And, you know, all of the jokes I made, made you know at the beginning of the last episode about oh my god the trauma All of that you know hyperbole aside The fact that this movie was made Like should disprove the reasons for the animation ghetto But All of those jokes I made About oh my god, you're showing this to you know six-year-olds

Right happened because of the animation ghetto and the assumption that oh well You know it's a cartoon about rabbits right and and just in the fact that it's a cartoon Like right there. Okay, you know we'll put this on for for the four-year-olds, and it'll be fine Because a cartoon and no man. This is a this is a deeply nuanced story this gets into As you've said union archetypes and myth you know mythic structures and There's really really really potent political allegory involved and it is a story that never Talks down to the audience

Like you you need to be paying attention. Yeah And and if you do pay attention it pays off Because it is as smart as it is But the fact that it was a cartoon everybody thought it was gonna be you know The Fox and the Hound or I'm trying to think of something to know actually in SIPID But yeah Pinocchio What have you yeah, they there were a lot of connections to Bambi just because it's a naturalist type thing Yeah, and Fox and the Hound hadn't come out yet. Well. Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm yeah

So you know the the Well, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm yeah, I So you know in the the It's just that it's the it's the the shame of the animation ghetto Mm-hmm is kind of what strikes me because this Could have had an even wider audience Who could have very much appreciated it as a work of cinema

Mm-hmm if not for the knee-jerk assumption that well, you know, it's Animation, so, you know kiddie stuff. Not only is it not its animation, but also the book was so much better just prima facie like Clearly the yeah, you know, it's like that's your starting thing it's it's kind of like people who have read Princess Bride and then watch the movie and There it is. So hard to be snobby about that book compared to that movie Not because the movie is better than the book, but because both are phenomenal, but they are so separate from each other despite being so much about the same thing.

Yeah. How not compare them? The approach. But it would be like somebody reviewing it and going, well, the book was so much better. And it's like the book was amazing. You're absolutely right. Do not compare it to the movie because the movie is absolutely amazing in in its own Right. Yeah, the the transformation of the work from one medium to another Mm-hmm in in those this is one of those cases. We're transforming it from one medium into another Qualitatively changes the story that gets told even though the plot beats are all the same the characters are the same like right?

It's just it's a matter of emphasis, and it's a matter of tone You know like you know the the the novel talking about the princess bride the novel right? has a very consistent level of Snark yes going on. It's that yeah that that is that is Not the movie is much more straightforward earnest and no no we're we're solidly 110% we're we're committed to the bit you know this is this is utterly and utterly and entirely sincere and And that that transforms the story yeah, you know

So and the same thing happens with with this with this film in this movie, you know Just the the nature of the the nature of the focus is different. Yeah, so yeah, no I 100% agree with you So well cool you want folks reading stuff watching stuff We've already recommended both films So yes, hopefully they yes at least watch the one you recommended for this episode And then make sure they watch the the four part series for next week's episode Yeah, and you want to read beyond that I?

Hunting for the title I had it in front of me here, but What I would recommend I found it the book is against all tides the story of the USS Kitty Hawk race riot and the reason I recommend it is because I am in the midst of working on my

Master's degree and I only just found out that not only was there a Riot aboard the USS Kitty Hawk that was Instigated or not instigated it was that was fomented because of racial tension between black and white sailors and it's a long involved story but I found out I had not known at all that the month after that incident and of course remember this is in the in the waning waning years of Vietnam okay there was also a sit-down strike by black sailors aboard the USS Constitution Who were protesting?

biased and racially biased Non-judicial punishment practices aboard the ship and This is a story that I have not been able to find almost any scholarly coverage of I have not been able to find almost any scholarly coverage of, but I'm recommending Against All Tides because it was written by a man named Marv Truja, who was the defense attorney, the judge advocate general defense attorney for several of the sailors, the black sailors, who were brought up on charges under the Universal Code of Military Justice. And it is the only book so far that I've been able to find that tries to tell the story from the point of view of the men who were charged with rioting. Congress held an inquiry and basically,

so surprisingly, so terribly surprising for, again, 1970s, 1972, they determined that, you know, there was no evidence of, you know, racial discrimination aboard the Kitty Hawk. There was nothing that justified any kind of use of violence. And they referred to the Black sailors who were involved in the incident as thugs and below mental standard, if I'm remembering the quote. Their language drips with racism. It's it's down to a modern ear. It is galling and stunning it sounds like a fox pundit talking about Basketball players it really does. Yeah

And and on the one hand that's kind of shown us how Far society has come in terms of you know, that's kind of shown us how far society has come in terms of, you know, that's not that's not the mainstream way of talking about people anymore. Right. But at the same time, it's shocking to me that, you know, there isn't more there hasn't been more written about this. There hasn't been, you know, history from below done on it. And so anyway, I'm recommending that book because more people need to know about it. You know, and and I

think it's it's an important read. And it's it's an important topic within within our own history, especially with the circumstances that our military is dealing with right now. We're similarly in a situation where standards are being lowered because the number of physically fit young people who are fit to serve, in this case right now, is coming down? And You know we're having the military is having difficulty You know meeting recruiting targets and all these kinds of things and we just have less wars and shit But you know I mean yeah but while we're

Tussling with that we need to wrestle with the history of you know how the institutions have Absolutely failed on this level And so that's that's my that's my recommendation against all tides by Marv Trua the untold story of the USS Kitty Hawk race riot How about you? I'm going to recommend a book by Mark Bray. So apparently it's mark week By Mark Bray called Antifa the anti-fascist handbook from the activist citizens library. Seems like something maybe people might want to read now. After all, you know, Hazel did fight off the epher-fa, not with civil debate.

No. But with hind claws. Yeah. So yeah. So anyway yeah. Yeah. Other relevance that I don't know. We don't know things on this. You know. So yeah. All right. Cool. Cool. Cool. Where can we be found? We collectively can be found on our website at wubba wubba wubba dot geek history time.com That's where our archive is that's where you can go back through all 300 and I still don't know what episodes Find something 300 now over 300 now Find something that catches your interest and listen through to it and then bounce to something else and We can also be found on the Apple podcast app on the I

Just totally blanked Amazon podcast app and on Spotify and wherever it is that you do go Please take a moment to subscribe, please take a moment to subscribe and please take another moment to give us the five star review that you know we deserve. And where can you be found, sir? Well, let's see, you've probably missed the April 4th show, although you might not have. So, come on down.

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey, we don't know. Yeah. But if it's before April 4th that you're hearing this, then come get your tickets from Comedy Spot, saccomedyspot.com. Check the calendar and get your tickets for Capital Punishment. I and my Capital Punishment crew will be at it yet again, slinging puns, doing all kinds of really dope shit on stage.

It's a really good time. But if April 4th is already passed, then go May 2nd. Get your tickets now because we sell out. And April through June are going to be really important, with July being one of the most important. So get your tickets now and in advance and just buy them all Uh, and that way you you will be able to see things as they head toward our ninth year anniversary show But yes, that is april 4th may 2nd

june 6th and uh july 11th not fourth, um For obvious reasons. Yes.m.. Sacramento comedy spot Come and check us out and help us spin that wheel Nice. Yeah, well cool for a geek history of time I'm Damian Harmony, and I'm Ed Blaylock and until next time keep rolling 20s