A Geek History of Time - Episode 325 - Interview with Ben Rice about Alcohol That Oddly Isn't Saki

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

See, people when they click on this, they'll see the title, so they'll be like, poor Ed. What does that even fucking mean? However, because it's England, that's largely ignored and unstudied. I really wished for the sake of my sense of moral righteousness that I could get away with saying no. He had a god damned ancestral home and a noble title until Germany became a republic. You know, none of this highfalutin, you know, critical role stuff. So they chewed through my favorite shit.

No, I'm not helping them. I'm gonna say that you're getting into another kind of, you know, Mediterranean, Ur, psyche archetype kind of thing. Makes sense. Also trade winds are a thing. Ha ha, just serious. Like, no, he really has a mad on him. Yeah, we'll go upon a tangent. As we keep doing.

Like, yeah, this is how we fill time. I'm going to go ahead and get started. This is a Geek History of Time. Where we connect the ordinary to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock. I'm a middle school teacher teaching history here in Northern California and just yesterday in the evening I was sitting on the couch and my wife had handed me something to look at and because of my I know Damien is gonna say advanced age I've now gotten to a point where I have to take my glasses off to read anything that I'm holding in my hand And I took them off and I and I set them in my lap and a moment later

I called my son over to have a talk with him about something I don't even remember what now and he ran over and he leapt into my lap which I had not been expecting, and I heard a pop noise. And I reached down and my glasses had twisted, and one of the lenses had popped out of place. And so I'm now wearing a pair of glasses. I have been actually this was Thursday night because I had to wear an old pair of glasses to work and I didn't exactly get a headache but this this prescription is old enough that I got vertigo oh times because because the difference in focus for for each of my eyes is different now right right yeah added added like my brain had to readjust because you have Andy Warhol's disease yes yeah yes I do yeah so yeah and and so now those glasses are waiting on repair, and I will be able to get them back on Monday, but if if

You those of you listening of course aren't aren't gonna be aware of this, but you know Damien if you see me like squinting or taking my glasses off to rub my eyes. That's why Yeah, well I mean that too Why not recording insanely late? Yeah, well, I mean that too More than usual right I should say and by the way, that's a good look for you. Thank you. Thank you Yeah, no those those frames those frames suit you So that's my story. What about you? Well, I'm Damian Harmony. I'm a US history teacher up here in Northern, California at the high school level Yeah, I just popped out my blue blockers because I saw that I was the only bearded white male

on the screen without glasses. So I was like, I'm gonna just complete the set. But so I'm wearing them. I had a student, I got these during pandemic because we were teaching from home. I didn't wanna ruin my eyes. I had a student tell me, Mr. Harmony, why are you wearing Malcolm X's glasses? And I just sat there and I did this, just look at yourselves.

So it was fun, it was all in good humor. That was also the student that like, we remember I told you about this, I traveled to Europe with a group of students prior to pandemic. Mm-hmm And she was the only one that was singled out by the German TSA basically. Oh, right. Right. She was the only one who was not white so Yeah, they told me oh you can go sit down. I said the hell I can this is my kid And so so she She was okay with me giving my response to her you know

In puning mr. X um all right, so I I'm going to brag for a couple minutes here All right, so I'm going to brag for a couple minutes here A couple days ago and Ben can attest to this by the way We have a guest and I'll introduce him in a minute, but a couple days ago We did an off show. We had a capital punishment show not on a Friday night It was in fact at the Crocker Art Museum in Sacramento We were the headliners. And oh my gosh, we killed it. We slayed. It was amazing.

But the best part was this. There was a gal who saw me standing there by a, there's like a light well at the bottom or on the ground. And so it's lighting me from underneath and she said, don't move. And she gets out her camera and she takes a picture of me. I'm like alright cool, and then she's like no now go ahead and pose and I was like It's me so I didn't um and okay, and then no come on. Give me some expressions. Okay, so I raised an eyebrow You know and then she comes over and she's like don't those look good. I was like yeah sure yeah absolutely

She introduces herself. I'm so and so. It's like, oh cool, have you seen our show before? No, oh, you should definitely sit down. It's starting, it just started, I just got off stage. You're gonna love it, if you love puns, you're gonna love the show. And she's like, oh well, yeah, that's, and she works the conversation around

to immediately telling me that she was a dominatrix. And sex work is work, I'm sex positive, that's all great. I was like, oh, cool. And she's like, so I'm a dom. And I said, well, I started this show, so there's no sub for me. And yeah, I'm at a pun show, I'm a punnin'. And also, why are you telling me this?

But so then I told her, like you should see the show. She's like, well, I need to go eat first. I was like, okay, cool. And then she hit me with, I'm gonna go do what I want and then I'll come back to give you what you want. And I was like, all right, cool. This does not work on me.

So I go up, I do my bit and I come back down and she's come back having eaten Presumably and then she tells me I said oh good you hear there's there's still some empty seats She's and she points to a seat in the front row that's empty. She's like, did you save that for me? I said no, is that for me? I don't know. There's a guy sitting there. You should ask him But is that for me? I Don't know you should ask the fella next to it because he might have a friend who stepped away for a second But is that for me? That's you know the best thing you could do is probably not ask me, but ask him um because same

Like so you well, and it's not like I'm being daft. I know what's going on Yeah, and don't fly so and you're trying to give her the the signal that I'm not playing this game So and after the show she comes back to me. I was like, so did you like the show and she's like, yeah I was really good. I said great. We have merch. You should go buy some and she says to me She says to me well, or you could buy me some. I was like, no, you should buy some. And she says, well, I'm looking. This is my revenue straight lady. Right, well, then she says, well, I'm looking for a daddy.

I said, but you found a dad. My kids need college money. Go buy my merch. And then, and then she holds up the picture of me and she says, how about I trade you one of these pictures for some merch I said I woke up without that picture. I'll go to bed without it. I'll be fine. You should go buy my merch She's like well, I'm gonna go find someone to buy. I'm cool. Long as someone buys my merch. I'm happy

She then finds our host adjusts his bowtie And starts talking to him and I thought I had a good response to her. He Proved why he has always been our host. He said, she says, I'm looking for a daddy, and without missing a beat, he said, so am I, let's go find one. And so, to close everything out, she shows up and she's got a shirt in her hand, I'm like, oh good, you bought the

merch. She's like, no good. You bought the merch like no I Comedian bought it for me. I just had to kiss them. I was like, oh, okay cool, whatever And then she said well, I have to go home. I have a sub in a cage. I need to let out And I was like, well, that's fair. I normally keep mine in my refrigerator. It's called Ruben and Off she walked it was Wow, oh my wry wit, um, so But anyway, I wish her well, oh she did hand me a card she handed me two cards And uh, she said she was starting a political movement and I told her I said I gotta tell you

And she said she was starting a political movement and I told her I said I gotta tell you Somebody who's got the word dominate in their job title is not someone I'm gonna follow politically Yeah, like that's just way too far in the anarchist side of that that equation But I totally get why she was there. There's old powerful people Yeah, she just yes. Yeah, that is kind of the hunting grounds. Yeah, she just, she's, yeah, that is kind of the hunting grounds. I suppose. So anyway, um, we have a guest who has had to stay silent for way too long. So, uh, I'm going to just jump right to it. Uh, with us right now is comedian or comedian Ben

Rice, um, who I have known since I started on the comedy scene, um, because while he and I have on paper the same body type we look nothing alike, and he's a lot funnier than I am But he hates puns, so there's just this real thing going on but more importantly Right he started podcast. What's that three lies and zero truths? I feel like there was three lies and zero truths in what you just said, but okay. Ben, you have a podcast. You've been a part of at least two others. Welcome aboard. What do you want to talk about tonight? How are you? Thank you for having me, first of all, or second of all, I guess I already interjected. Well, I was told to come in here to talk about running comedy shows and about beer. And those are two things I think I could probably talk about

in some self-taught manner. Yeah, auto didactic. Yeah. So let's start with the comedy shows. How long have you been doing comedy, first of all? That is a question that I've been asked a number of times and I've never actually looked it up because I started on a dare

and it wasn't a thing I was looking to do. So I had no reason to like mark the time. Sure. So it's 2009, 2010, and it's also the end of the year or the beginning of the year So it's like 2009 2010 2011 one of those is correct And I don't know which I don't know if it's the end of that year or the beginning of that year sure one of those Is right okay? And and when did you realize that the real money wasn't in being on stage, but in fact putting others on stage I?

Don't think I've realized that yet. Um... Um... I think I've gotten better at, uh... Minimizing my financial damage, but I wouldn't say that I'm some financial genius who's found a hack to make sure that this tastes well. Fair, fair. But you produce a fair amount of shows and quite successfully, I might add.

Yes. It's through hubris and the thing, and it's the same thing with podcasting. No one can make you stop. You can just go as long as you feel like And that's how I do it I Feel like the secret to our longevity has just been kind of laid bare feet. Yeah, like wow Well, we've had those talks of like when do you want to quit? I don't know. All right, let it ride. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, people keep letting me book shows and I keep doing it. And one day they'll probably stop, but it hasn't happened, so.

I'll keep mine. And I'm always like, ooh, this could be, oh, I have an idea. And I don't know how to not put an idea into the world. So, that's most of it. So when you've, do you know when you started booking shows? I want, ooh, first ever booking shows? No, when you started being like,

I'm a guy who books shows now. When did that turn take? Probably 10 years ago. Okay 2015 2015 2016. Yeah, probably pretty accurate. Okay. My longest running current show has been going on since 2016 So that sounds about right nice and feel free to plug that now, but we're also gonna have time for plugging things Crooked Lane Brewing in Auburn. It's a winter series because they have giant windows that make it impossible to do it anytime when it's bright. So it's just a winter show.

Get national headliners to come through and do the show. No big deal. We had Taylor Tomlinson before she was famous. No bigs. Nice. No bigs. How do you book the talent? Is there a network that you go through?

Is there, you just reach out to people with that hubris? Yeah, yeah, yeah, hubris. It's all hubris. It's all, and it's, I think the key that I think most people don't have that I do have is that I don't care if you tell me no. I won't be hurt by it. I won't be like, oh, never again with those guys.

I'm like, whatever, man, this day didn't work or the money didn't work. And now as long as they're honest with me about why they're saying no, I can work with that. And I don't get mad when people make requests that are outside of what I'm offering and I'm like if I can do it I'm gonna try to do it, you know, that's the person on a book and if people

Cancel on me. I'm like whatever man. Honestly, there's nine billion comedians with only three billion people on earth Yeah, I can replace you it does not a nice thing to say but everyone is replaceable I know enough people that if you have to cancel, I'd, hey, life happens. We're all humans. Barely anybody's making money at this. If something else is more important right now, I'm gonna be okay with that.

And I think most people don't feel that way. They feel like it's a personal attack. I'm like, nah, they are human beings with lives. All right. Yeah, good attitude to have about it. Yeah. What do you look for when you're booking a show? Obviously a headliner, a feature and an opener or are there more? Well, I mean, it depends. I run a variety of shows. I think I've done a bit more streamlining just because money doesn't go as far as it used to. You know, so you're like, well, this, you know, $200 show now, you know, with gas prices and, you know, cost of living, like you can't really go, hey, come headlight my show for 50 bucks.

You know, it's it's kind of an insult. So you have to like adjust. It's like, OK, well, going to cut a comic and give that money to the headliner. So that way it makes more sense for them to come up if I'm booking out of town. I'm always like hey Bring somebody you like don't bring three white dudes. Please don't but other than that It's not a podcast. Here's what I've had the last couple months. Don't bring any of them like Yeah, I but I try to I try to be fair and make it make sense for people. Okay, and so what do you look for when you're booking? In terms of diversity, in terms of

diversity in personage, diversity in opinion, diversity in approach? an approach like? Yeah, I love, I think diversity is super important in all aspects of it for everything. I like the idea of comics that can play together without being the same person. I like, you know, shifts in energy and tone, but with like, you can tell that their minds work the same, but their way of presenting it is different I like that a lot. Okay, where you kind of you see that that mirror that like altered mirror, you know, like it's a little bit Yeah, just like a funhouse of comedy And then it's just like, you know people I like booking and you know, it's whatever

but I I You know, it's whatever. But. I. I think if I had to say, like, oh, I always follow this formula, I don't think that exists. I book a headliner and like, great, I got a headliner. Who works with that? OK, great. Now, who works with that? And just go down until you've reached, you know, your number of comics you want.

Well, I mean, that's that is of a formula, though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're booking to the headliner, and then you're booking to the feature, and then that's, yeah. I mean, that reminds me of how I book my shows, is I book for chemistry. Who's going to play well together? Who's going to give a good fight to who?

You know, that kind of thing. Yeah, and also also I like I like the idea of pushing the headliner so I like to have a really strong feature so that the headliner can't like has to work that's fun for me I don't know well that kind of makes sense like you know if you're if you're setting the bar at a particular level you know nobody's gonna be able to just slack off and the audience benefits, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It seems like it shouldn't have to be said and yet somehow You know

It's kind of like on a very different level but the you know, you you shouldn't have to say this like one of my classroom rules that is posted at it like that In plain view because it needs to be is keep your hands and your feet to yourself like I shouldn't have to tell you Not to poke each other, but I do yeah. Yeah, you know yeah, I Get that So okay, so you you there's there's that particular show And you said that's a crooked lanes brewing in Auburn. Yes Now I think I was booked for that and then I got kovat. So speaking of life getting in the way

Which one was I booked for I believe you were at Fort Rock brewing. That's what it was There's no? I believe you were at Fort Rock Brewing. That's what it was. Jesus Christ, you and breweries. It's like there's a connection there. It's almost as if. Yeah, well, the other thing he's here to talk about is beer. So. Well, true. True.

So. All right, so you also book a show at Fort Rock Brewery? Yes. OK, is that similar in terms of the approach, or is that a different... No, I don't think that they're similar. My goal was to make them similar, but just that hasn't latched on the same way that Crooked Lane has. I think it's mostly to do with the fact that the...

The way it's designed isn't as good for Clean sound like like crooked Lane is just so well designed for a comedy room and Unfortunately for Rock is is entirely concrete So the sound bounces everywhere so it's just it doesn't it swallows up sound, but also carries it where it shouldn't. Right. So it's hard to make it a place where you can have, you can fill the room and everybody will hear what's going on. Well, that's, you have talked more in the last 30 seconds

about the importance of sound than anybody who's ever booked a show I've been on has talked. Please dig into that because I am fascinated by sound. I never understand why people ignore it. It's the thing. It's the thing. And it's not even hard. It's not even, you're just doing one,

it's not like you're like, I gotta make this whole band sound amazing. You just gotta make one human being sound like a human being to everyone in the room. I don't know why it's hard for people to do it And I don't know why they overlook it as an important part of show running, but jesus christ Well, don't hold back Speakers play out in a 90 degree angle

Um, speakers play out in a 90 degree angle, uh, you know, 45 degrees from the center, each direction. Sure. You want to make sure that that angle with multiple speakers creates a sound wave that would touch the entire room. And you'd also want to make sure that the levels are not so overbearing that it bounces back and causes a weird thing. Right. That's the, the easiest part.

Um, and then for human voice human voice, as far as levels, we are not instruments. We are, we do not go as high as instruments. So you can turn the high levels up a little bit, but we're also turning your bass down a little bit and keep your middles in the middle. And you will sound like a human being without sounding like you're underwater

or whatever other things or like Super bassy or having feedback and like high-pitched squeals. It's like so Incredibly easy to sound great and yet So so what Having said all of that and that's that's enough like's enough on its own, that's cool, but what are the characteristics in terms of when you look at a room, if you're looking at a place that you want to do a show in, are you looking for carpeted floors as a thing for for sound are you looking for? You know acoustic tiles in the ceiling as opposed to just rafters or a vault or a vault or like what?

Is there is there anything that you? Can look at a place and go oh alright So this is this is gonna be good or look at a place like you know you talk about High ceilings are always a problem but I mean honestly you can do comedy anywhere that's again the nice part is it's only a human voice that's all you have to get across to however big your room is yeah I mean you I don't know to tell you. I mean, your job is to get the human voice out to your audience.

I've gone to places. I'm like, oh, this is going to be great for comedy. And it's not. And I've got a place of like, this is going to be awful. No one should do a show here. I told one venue, no, for three years. Really? And now it's one of my better rooms. I was like, no, it won't work here. Your entire structure is glass. All the sounds go straight out. This is stupid. It won't work. And like the way the shape is, it's like a half circle

that it jumps out into a square. And then it's like the bars and the to the right. And it's just, and there's to the right and it's just And there's stuff behind you and like the bathroom just the the layout doesn't make any sense You know, I'm like it'll never work and then we just like put the stage two from places We're like this one's better and then it's fine But like three years of just like no like please i'm like no Sounds like you just described the crow's nest. Uh, I mean, like that's a rough space to try to perform comedy in, right? Yeah. And like it takes a, and it shouldn't have to be a struggle, but it is, right?

Right. That room, like, cause you're like, I get the idea, you're selling food, you're selling beer, that's your business, you know, but do you have to have those loud plates? Can't we do things that don't use forks and knives? You know, but yeah, I or like, hey, dinner service ends at 730 and the show starts at 745, whatever, you know, there's ways to do it. But yeah, whatever they've been going for like 30 years. They're going gonna change. Yeah

Well, and knows what it is the comics at this point. Hopefully know what it is, you know Yeah, you either have a good set or a terrible set. There is nothing in between Yeah, no, it's earlier go up the worse. It's gonna be yeah. Yeah So do you have a I kind of don't want to ask you this just because it'll be damning by faint praise of all the others I was gonna ask if you have a favorite room. So and if you don't want to answer that that's okay. Well just no no no no not that you run just in general like the favorite room for performing or running. Like from a sound perspective. You know, I think I used to at this point.

I truly don't care. I I'm like, you're having me on the show. Great. I'm going to go have a good time or a bad time and I'll live with the consequences. I'm gonna go have a good time or a bad time and right I'll live with the consequences I feel like there's places I really I really always enjoyed going to But it's not necessarily because it sounds good or it looks cool. It's just like, you know, I love being at Luna's That was always great. It was just like a super appreciative audience Yeah, we're a super like not appreciative audience and I'm like whatever I'm gonna get I'm gonna get artsy people and They're gonna have their opinions and thoughts and I like that cuz they're you know, and I loved um

Empire comics vaults that Jojo Lewis ran. Yes, I'm like hell. Yeah a bunch of nerds. Let's go You can do nerdy stuff and that was fun. I Think this is the one place where I can do you know my like starfox references and like no Yeah, yeah, no I you know I I think he once called my set the weirdest TED talk you're gonna hear today Because it was about cat versus bat And who would win and why? But God I loved performing for them because they were such a generous audience Yeah, they were just so they were so ready, you know and and like you said it

This is comedy shouldn't be hard in terms of concept. I'm offering you a chance to laugh Yeah, it really I mean forget that the real world exists. Yeah. Like, that's it. Like, that's, you know, it's a step above sex work. Like, you know, in terms of like commitment. Like. Yeah, get your jollies, you know.

Exactly. Like, but, you know, and if you don't like the way I do that, that's okay. Somebody else is going to be coming in right behind me, you know. So it's the same thing. But yeah, you end up with rooms, or not rooms, but audiences that are like overtly hostile, or someone will go up ahead of you and absolutely misread the room. And then you have to dig that out and then set up for someone else like it's it's just it's a it's a weird weird thing. Yeah Do you notice like okay the difference between being on stage and then running the show? Are there different stresses like which one is?

Running a show is like non-stop Un unrewarding, terrible experience where you get to, you're at a show for 45 to 60 to 90 minutes of comedy and you get to hear maybe two minutes of it because you're always answering a question or looking at a problem or like overthinking something or like, what's gotta be next?

Hey, could they see the timer? Hey, can this person here? Is the lighting right? And you're just constantly adjusting. And then the audience is like, you know, I don't really like that this thing isn't. And when you're a showrunner, everybody thinks you're not a comic

and they all think you work at the place. And so they're asking you questions about stuff that you don't actually deal with and it's just It's an unrelenting hellscape, and I don't wish it on anybody so public school teaching Yeah, okay, so So and I love it. Yeah, that's gonna say so you

keep coming back. Yeah. Yeah. What do you consider to be a successful show? Like genuinely like you walk away going like, Fuck yeah. I mean, when you know that the audience had a great time when it's like undeniable, this audience loved this, they're gonna tell somebody, they're gonna come back. That's always like, when people come up after the show and they're talking, that's something like, okay, we did something right tonight. Nice.

How much does, whether or not the show is financially successful, mollify, or like, bring that up or down? You know what? I literally could care less if it's financially successful. Obviously, I would love it if it was. And a lot of the times, so one of the things that I do is that I don't generally put my own financial stake into the show. I do get the venues to give me a budget or a guarantee.

The last few shows I put together, I am more kind of putting my finances on the line and it sucks because I am a terrible marketer. That's the hell of one thing. But I've always believed that if you put on a good show, people will talk about it and they'll talk about it, especially if there's not a lot of competition for it. And so that's kind of, you know,

if you once you're like three or four shows in you should know if you're gonna if you're Overpaying underpaying if you know you can make a guarantee that goes bigger or you know get it lower but know that you can I Mean you can make adjustments So that's kind of Where I stand. My new show, it's been a financial failure so far, but I also built in to the structure of it that I could afford to lose money for four shows. So I was like, I know that I can cover this.

I know it's a good product. All I need is people to show up and talk about it and So far, you know, the people have come have talked about it and you know, it's only been two shows and You know, I got like no No media push on the first one. I'm pretty minimal the second and I'm hoping you know We pick up a little bit more on the first one, pretty minimal the second, and I'm hoping we pick up a little bit more on the third.

And that should get us to the fourth, which we'll see if we're rolling or not. The venue's super behind it. I had to have a chat with the owner, like, hey man, I think you're social media guys, like, not really helping me here, and it would be great if you would. And he's like, oh yeah, just let me know if anything, he's not sharing anything.

Just, uh, just even just text me. Cool. I'll make sure it's getting here from like, cool. Okay. He's like, yeah, cause I'm like, I do text you. He's like, did something group chat? I'm like, yeah. He's like, I don't read that.

I, cause it goes too much. Just send it right to me. One-on-one. It'll be fine. Like, okay, cool. Good to know. You know, that kind of stuff, you know, with new venues, you've got to figure Like, okay, cool, good to know. You know, it's just that kind of stuff, you know, with new venues,

you gotta figure out who the people are and how to communicate. Cause like I had to tell the social media guy, cause he was like pretty combative, but I'm like, hey man, I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just making sure we're on the same page. I've been doing this for 10 years. You know, I know what I'm talking about.

I know what this product is. I know how to sell it. I just need you to do the things i'm asking you to do Yeah, and like once we have the dialed in i'm never gonna bother you again because we'll both know what the plan is It'll take like two or three shows, but we'll get it done and we'll be great So yeah, it's it's just you know, everyone's wanting it And then like even with like, you know k lane. We're at you know, nine years You know for rock we're at I think four or five

It's still like hey everyone's like I'd be like hey Remember how we have to keep the promotion going like I know we had a really good show last time But you still to do the same work over and over again, you know, right? It's not something where you can just let it slide. You have to do the same work. Yeah, it's like weight lifting. Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay, you got your technique down. Now keep lifting. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So how did COVID affect, because I mean, you're doing live in-person shows. How did that impact your efforts and how did you come back from that? I tried to do online shows with one of my spaces.

The first one we did really well, you know, cause it was like, hey, it's just, you know, everybody's first one did really well. Yeah. You know, here's my Venmo, put money in there if you want to. And like we cleaned up and then it was just like no return No turning customer like I just I didn't I tried to make it fun by like doing stuff to the background

I would let it draw things and you know But it's just it's just different, you know, I didn't enjoy the online comedy experience So I stopped it maybe maybe Three three shows, maybe four shows in. I'm like, you know what? I'll wait till we're back. Yeah. I wasn't really in a big hurry to do it just because I'm like, you know, it's COVID. I'd rather it be gone than not be. So yeah, I was like, how would you like?

I'm not going to take bookings like. Like I did. I think Stab had one where like everybody was like doing their set from their bathroom or whatever. And I'm like, that's right. And I'll do that. That's, you know, but. Or like, you know, I just do a regular stab show, like, because that was pretty much online anyway. So. Mm hmm. And I was like, yeah, I think. I don't know. You just find ways to do other creative outlets.

That's, that's what I did. Sure. And coming back, how was, how was that? Like, cause you're talking about, like, it's one thing to push a car that's already moving. It's another thing to push a car that's at a dead It's another thing to push a car that's at a dead stop It's another thing to push a car at a dead stop with the ebrake on at the bottom of a hill Yeah, I mean, um fortunately Um, I wasn't really planning on coming back to comedy like I was talking about. Um Till like whenever um, I didn't have a big game plan, but then I got a text from one of my friends like, Hey, Kyle, can names looking to do a show in Sacramento tomorrow.

And so I thought you should know that. Wow. Okay. Let me reach out to one of the venues I know and see if we can get it done. Yeah. And I like called him up, I'm like, hey, take a message to the ownership, this is what's going on.

Yeah, so the ownership basically ignored it until another employee came in and he's like, what's this note about Kyle Kanane? I don't know, Ben called about it. He's like, you need to do this. We need to do this. Let's do this. So I got a call back, about it he's like you need to do this we need to do this let's do this so I

got a call back yeah let's let's do it and at that time Becky was pregnant and she was having a craving for a certain food type you know and so I was like I'm gonna go do that and the same time I'm like messaging Kyle Kanane on Instagram right well driving like 20 miles sure get like a Philly cheesesteak or something from a spot. Then I got there like five minutes after they closed. It was like, where's the second best Philly cheesesteak? And they were closed and just all over the place.

And yeah, and I'm just like messaging him like at stoplights and like right at stoplights Real reckless, um, and I think we secured it at like 930 at night and he's like make a flyer don't post it till I approve it I think that was like one in the morning. He's like looks great. Let's go My well, I'm not gonna put it out at one in the morning. He's like looks great. Let's go My well, I'm not gonna put it out at one in the morning. That's stupid so we did it like eight in the morning day of the show and Then you had we we you know

Master required, you know, you could be at the table with your friends, but other than that six feet, you know, right from groups And I think we got 175 people in and we turned away 120. That's so wow. Good, good numbers. And we, it was a free show. This is tip show, you know, just tip us a little. And I, you know, I had a guarantee from the venue for a certain amount of money.

And then Kyle's like, this is great. Don't pay me. Thank you. They said, I might go to the comics. Wow. He's like, I haven great. Don't pay me. Thank you. They said I might go to the comics. Wow He's like I I haven't done comedy since cove it started. I've got a weekend. I'm going to this is this is a great way To work it out. It's a lot nice Very cool. Yeah, that's cool So okay, I was podcast which was pretty cool. Oh neat. Yeah, and now you're here. Sorry

So, okay that that's obviously a big success story. Was it always that, I'm not going to say that easy, because it clearly wasn't easy to do, but did you keep finding success like that, or was that kind of the outstanding example and all the rest, or kind of like, no, all the rest are kind of like no We just had to grind until people came back Coming back. That's so long ago I Don't really I don't really have a memory of stuff like that

I think coming back, you know a lot of you were excited to be out, right? And so there's like a live entertainment. I haven't been's like, hey, live entertainment. I haven't been to that. You know, communal entertainment, I haven't been to that. So I think we did come back pretty strong most places. I do know I did, when it came back, I didn't re-up with every venue I'd worked with pre-COVID. Just because I was like, I don't think I had the energy for it.

That was really it. I was like, I don't think I had the energy to do all the things I was doing pre-COVID. Cause I also had bought a house, was gonna have a kid. And truth be told, when I was starting to book shows, I was not really paying myself. I'm like, whatever, I have a job that pays well.

I was hosting one show and I was taking home five bucks. Maybe I don't need to keep doing that, you know? Yeah, yeah. I don't think I need to do that. So that's also, you know, part of the success is that I don't care about my side of it. Sure. And I think that allows for a lot more freedom in in booking. But I do obviously now negotiate and I don't think, I think the least I get paid is like 35.

Okay. And is that a principle or is that a necessity? I think at this point it's a necessity but it is also a principle. The way that I look at what I do is always that I am providing an avenue for people I like to be seen by people. I'm not in it for glory. If you look at my flyers most of the time I'm not on them, right? He's not on them even right hosting every single one of them, you know You know, I Don't like the the attention on it

So that's how I've always kind of dealt with stuff like I was a Beer dinner a few few months ago. They were doing like their first ever like beer and food pairing. And the owner made a joke about like, I'm so good to be here with old friends and new friends and also Ben Rice. And no one laughed. I'm like, no one knows who I am. But you do know who I am.

Have to know who I am. And that's like, like there's anybody who needs to know who I am, knows who I am have to know who I am and that's like like this Anybody who needs to know who I am knows who I am and that's where I am in this Scenario I'm not some publicly Known person right think you know who I am because you have to not because yeah, I'm undeniable Okay, so I Don't transition well, so I'm just gonna say this um What are you drinking? Oh? Yes, so I am drinking currently a moonlight brewing death and taxes Black lager and if we're just nice picked it because first of all it's an

incredible beer okay also a beer that I think helps to dissuade a lot of the misunderstandings about beer so you're looking at it right and is this dark frothy beer yeah it's gonna knock me on my ass. It's gonna be this like really intensely bitter thing. Right. Yeah, but it's I don't even think it's 5%. I think it's like 4.4%. So it's barely barely even alcohol.

If you ask me, whatever 5.3% agree with you on that. Yeah, 5.3% and it's actually a logger. Yeah. 5.3% and it's actually a lager, not a stout. Yeah. And it's like a nice, it's a nice coffee toffee taste. And I just, I love it and it's great and it's also like a German lager, Schwarzbier

is the title it would have if it was not made in Sonoma County. And I also love it for Death and taxes, which is a great name sure yeah I'm okay. I'm gonna have to write that down somewhere. Oh My run it label it as a beer because if you just write down death and taxes taxes Yeah, not gonna be a reminder not gonna be yeah. Well. Yeah three days away. Yeah Okay, so You you like beer so much

that you actually started a podcast back when there were only like 4,000 per capita. Whereas now there are 9,000 per capita. So when did you start your podcast and what was its title? I believe I started in 2016, maybe 2015. It is called Barley and Me. Spoiler alert the beer dies at the end. Conversations with the makers of your favorite beers and the people who drink them. You know I've got a few taglines. Sure. Nice. What got you actually Ed? This is much more your expertise

So you don't been here and push me to the back as early as you want to okay? Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna start with this though. Yeah, what got you thinking that the world needed a podcast about beer Let me tell you I don't think the world does Well what it was Is I was you know as I as a comic you know you're at a lot of bars and breweries and you know places to serve alcohol and you know I I was you know in my late 20s early 30s drink a lot and you know and Somebody's like hey, you're really like passionate. I don't want to say somebody Jamie Fernandez was like

Hey, you're really passionate about beer. You should do like a funny beer blog or something and I was like, huh? No, because to me beer is not funny beer is serious business And Hallelujah Yeah, so guess, you know, I've been like doing interviews since I was like six years old, I could probably slide into this and I you know, I knew people in the industry just from, you know, hanging out and talking.

I've already done that, you know. And I was like, well, what do you mean, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. slide into this and I you know, I knew people in the industry just from you know, hanging out and talking I've already done that, you know

And I was like, well what what is the world of beer podcasts right now? So I listened to a bunch of beer podcasts and I'm like, well, these are all boring You know, they're all the same it's right, you know three dudes in their basement drinking beers and being assholes. And I'm like, I was like a professional, like, hey, we're all, it's this thing called the Brewing Network, like we're professional brewers. We've all been in the industry. And then I had heard somebody say very confidently

that a Seysan was, well, just Seysan's are probably like 5%. I'm like, you fucking moron, it's 7.5 to 8.5. I thought you were professional. I could do this right. So I was like, okay, the barrier to entry is really nothing. And also all of these podcasts are the same, right? And so I was like, look, Sacramento's got a pretty vibrant beer scene. I know most people in this beer scene. I'm a comedian. I know lots I've been a music reviewer. I know the bands in town. I know, you know, comedians, I know writers, I

know artists, I can bring in a guest who's not, not a beer nerd maybe, maybe they are, maybe they're not right. So I was the first person, this is a true fact. I'm the first beer podcast to do every episode on site at a brewery Which was my first idea and I don't know how no one thought of it first like yeah Now there are a bunch of them, but I am literally the first one to do it Do you think that might have something to do with the overlap between beer podcasts and like home brewing guys. What are the idea of people in basements talking?

Yeah, I do. I do think it's part of that. I also think it's this idea that you're funnier when you're drunk or things are funnier when you're drunk. And and like this, you know, banter like like yeah, I'm about anything and I was like I don't care what you have to say about stuff Yeah Well, and there's the issue that like I think I'm a lot funnier when I'm drunk But I'm sure the people around me are like oh my god. You've said the same fucking thing five times

And it wasn't that funny the first time like you're five times And it wasn't that funny the first time like you're Yeah, yeah to me. I'm always much more I think I've always been more interested in stories than somebody's opinion on a beer that I'm not currently drinking What does that matter yeah, I'm not gonna go like oh today's episode they've got these beers I'm gonna go track them down before listen listen to the episode so I can be like, oh, I know too, you know? Like, I love how did this get made as a podcast.

I don't need to watch the movie to enjoy the podcast, right? Like, yeah. It's a good podcast. Right, yeah. So, yeah, I was like, I'm an interviewer, I like stories. I wanna know, like, it's basically current beer history is what I do with you know, like how did we get here? What what are you what who are you? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Make it like I tell people like it's the easiest thing you're gonna do you're talking about beer and yourself It's the easiest thing you'll ever do. Yeah, you know, yeah the two things you're expert on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I'm like, I'm not I have no questions prepared. I'm not. It'd be like, oh, I got a gotcha for you. I'm going to make you look stupid. I'm like, no, we're going to have fun. And you're going to be able to explain who you are and how you got to this point. And it'll be fun.

And we'll find out if you and my guest gel or not. And, you know, one time, no. And the other times, yes. So cool. Yeah. So when No, and yes times. Yes, so Cool. Yeah so when I'm trying to figure out kind of how to how to formulate this particular question because There's the there's the likelihood of it kind of sounding stupid, but hey

Yeah, I know never stops me for True I'll make you sound so smart once you're done. Okay, well, good luck. So I know my own like introduction to beer was, you know, I was 19, I'm thinking and like the very the very first time I actually sat and drank a beer I Mentioned to my dad that I'd had a rough day at work at the job. I had over the summer after my freshman year of college and Without saying anything he just went to the fridge and handed me a can of macro brew, you know, I think it was Coors. And like, you know, there was this moment of, oh, all right, cool. This is recognition from my father. And that was awesome. And like the experience of drinking the beer was just kind

of like, oh, okay, well, this is what this is and I didn't learn to Appreciate it until a couple of years later when friend of the show Sean Said okay. So no you've you've the only beer you've had has been has been that and so you don't actually know Like what's possible with beer? So let me let me take you someplace and the first place I went in the first place I had anything that was not you know Coors was

Sudvrk sub work however you want to say it yeah, and And my my first one was Hefeweizen mm-hmm, and it was like oh oh Shit, this actually has a flavor like here's there's a lot going on here and So I'm kind of curious. What was your what was your experience like in that vein? Like yeah, it's a pretty boring story, but that's I think Very few stories are actually exciting If you're gonna to go down. So I didn't drink.

Okay. For a long time. I didn't drink till I was like 23. I think like in high school I had like a Zima, you know, and I was like, well, I don't like that. Yeah. Don't blame you. Yeah. And like, I think I like, you know, for some reason, I think just my love of black licorice, I was drinking Jägermeister, you know, which is like I could not touch the stuff. You could not pay me enough money to make me take a shot of Jägermeister today. But it was always my freezer for a few years. And then, like, you know, like a Bailey's or whatever.

Yeah, and then like, you know like a Bailey's or whatever. Mm-hmm but my sister started dating a guy who worked at a beer distribution company and So I went up to visit her and she's like, hey, we're gonna go to a beer festival and he's like you don't drink beer I'm like, I don't drink beers like we'll find something for you And so that's what we did. We just went and the stuff and I was like, you know, I like coffee. The stout has coffee in it. I like that. Hey, I like, I like raspberry.

This is a raspberry framboise. You know, I'm like, I'm going to, I like that, you know? Um, and I just, you start going from there, you know, it's like, I was like, I don't care for this. I don't care for this. I do like this a lot and even like the first beer I loved was also I have a vice and actually it's a Dragon's breath dark heath. Wait a minute. You've had that on this show. I've yes I've had driven you to drink many of those

Quite a few you're thinking of Dragon's milk, which is a little bit different I know that I know the one I know the one Ben's talking about and yeah, that's good stuff. Yeah, I don't have a Missoula, Montana I forget the brain Baron Baron brewing. Yeah, which I've actually been to And let me tell you didn't love it at the brewery and I think it's also just because time happens, you know Yeah, yeah me it tasted thin and that's fine. Yeah. But I did also still get their dunkel, their winter beer.

It's called face plant. And it's that called that for a reason. It turns out. Nice. And the nice part is out in Montana, they can sell the short bills. You know, the cans not quite full enough. Yeah. Saleable technically, but in Montana they could and they would sell it at a reduced price because it's not the full beer. So you could get, I don't know, 24 faceplants for like $8. You're like, oh no, instead of 12 ounces. It's 11.7 and

Save a shit ton of money Yeah, and so that was great for a week Very cool Very cool. So on on your own Like outside of anything you're doing on your podcast or you know being out at a brewery or whatever Like at at home on your own time. What what kind of stuff do you do you enjoy the most? Drinking this is the worst question because it's embarrassing, you know, I like to say that I drink all styles I'm gonna drink you put it in front of me. I'm gonna drink it I'm an IPA guy, but then I look in my fridge and it's just like all IPAs. I'm like, I've had an IPA like the last 10 beers I drank have been IPAs. But I do think that's

mostly because it's readily available. Yeah, I was making them. And I have so many stouts. I have so many stouts, but they're all like 12 and a half percent. I'm like, who has the energy for that? But they're all like twelve and a half percent. I'm like who has the energy for that? when am I gonna drink a 22 ounce bottle of a 12 percent beer I have a child I have a job I have comedy to do I cannot possibly drink this beer without a friend, and I don't have any friends All right, I gotta I gotta break in here there are terms that you guys are throwing around Okay, I don't know what an IPA stands for. I don't know what a stout is. I don't know what a logger is Help me. Okay

All right, I'll start I mean you're you're here to be the expert but Yeah, well, I mean you're you're here to be the expert but IPA stands for India pale ale and it's a variety that was originally invented in the United Kingdom and It was Originally it's it's an ale as the name indicates. Okay, what's an ale? That is, yeah. So it's warm fermented, so the temperature is above 90 degrees during the fermentation process.

Okay. And a lager is cold fermented using a different style of yeast that does better with lower temperatures. Okay. And these are both types of beer, is that correct? Yeah. They're both beer. Okay.

Yeah, and ale and lager are kind of like the two families yeah of Like if you want to get all taxonomic about it a beer is either going to be yeah Some kind of a lager or some kind of an yeah, like it's also an ale. Yeah Okay, a stout is a type of an ale. Yes, okay, and a stout means Stout is well first. Let finish in explaining. Oh, yeah IPA was invented in the UK at the height of you know the Sun never sets on the British Empire sure and It was invented as an ale generally

Kind of like the English ones as I understand because I've never drunk one are a little bit darker than the ones we tend to see here in the United States but they're still a golden color. Okay. And they that why they're called pale. Well, pale meaning they are they are lighter than other varieties of What you would recognize you'd look at as a layperson and go that's beer like I can see that That's the color I expect beer to be okay, so it's a little bit lighter And it's very heavily hopped Meaning there's lots and lots of hops the herb hops okay added to the brew And the reason hops Trad traditionally was added was number one

When you brew beer You wind up getting a mixture that has a very high sugar content so to balance out the sweetness of it You would throw hops in to balance it out with with some bitterness and some whatever kind of floral notes that those hops might have Okay, the other reason hops was added to beer was as a preservative So in order to get a beer to stay in a barrel and travel from the United Kingdom Down around the Horn of Africa right and survive until it made it to India Without growing mold Okay, you would hop it more heavily. Oh

Cuz I would slow down the molding process. Yes, it would it would prevent that from happening. So as a preservative That's that's what you had and so it became that story is fake. It's really a real thing It's more of a like a reason they didn't actually do it that way. But it was basically like, we'll explain it this way. But it's just it's really just more flavor and preservation, but it was never used for that particular thing. It was more like, we want to name it, we would want to differentiate from paleo and be like a fun thing to say it's an India pale ale because it was okay I'll even though it would not last that long. Okay. We're British for funny guys They're known for being funny the things are flavor and preservation are true

But there's not actually for that for making it around the horn. Okay. Yeah good to know and now the reason that they are so prevalent as craft beers I think I Want to say particularly here on the west coast But I don't know for sure if it's if it's more of a thing here than it is like in the Midwest or the East Coast but is when home brewing and the first Artisanal breweries started up in the I want to say 80s into 90s a

Lot of guys were learning how to make beer Okay, and they were trying to read it there was there's a lot of stuff. They got lost like back during prohibition and So people were kind of trying to figure out how to how to do stuff again and so a lot of guys would hop things very heavily to cover any weaknesses in the recipe or any kind of mistakes they might have made. And so that just became kind of a part of the culture. As people's skills got better, they could do other stuff okay but but within West

Coast beer culture hoppy beers had become a thing oh and that's a West Coast thing that's my perception it's certainly you know based on on you know part of it is what I see in the beer aisle but what I also know from folks who've lived in other parts of the country It's a bit of a west coast thing and ben you you're you're gonna know more than I do about that. I will yes No, it's basically a lot of the hop growers Pre-prohibition were on the west coast and so they found use for it during prohibition. But when prohibition was lifted, the major hop growers were in Washington state in the Yakima Valley. Sacramento also used

to be one of the bigger hop growing spaces in the U.S. no longer, but whatever. And so since we're here, we have more access to it. Fresh air. And therefore, yeah. Yeah. And so there is a style called West coast IPA. It's, it's an overly hop for a beer, a lot of bitterness, um, as far as that goes, um, and really, uh, the home brewing, uh, stuff came back in like 78, but, um,

The home brewing stuff came back in like 78, but IPA did not become a style that was even really desired until probably the mid to late 90s. There was a lot more of the brown ale, amber ale, stout stuff that was more prevalent. You wanted that sweetness. And the first, obviously the first hoppy beer to really make an impact was the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Classic hops, all the Seahops. That's the one up in Chico area? Yeah, up in Chico. But the first IPA to win a gold medal at the Great American Beer Festival,

the first time IPA was actually on the list was in 1989. Winner was Rubicon's IPA. Really? Yeah. And they won twice. It was actually like the IPA to go after. It was a Sacramento brewery. I'm not much of an IPA guy, but I might have to give it a try. Knowing that now. Well, they no longer exist.

Well, of course. There is a space in that same space. Oh, shit. Well, of course. There is a space in that same space. Alaro has taken over the space of Rubicon and they did keep Rubicon's brewer. So he is not the brewer in 1989, but he was their brewer when they closed. And he's great. And he does a lot of great old school stuff with a new school stuff as well. I have had the pleasure of Going to all RO and yeah, I didn't do the I think I had their stout

When I was there and it was pretty good. Yeah, so Good, dude Nice good to hear so I guess you can cross the Rubicon off your list So I guess you can cross the Rubicon off your list. Off the list. Yeah, there you go. And so you asked Damian about a stout. Yes, tell me about a stout. So if I'm remembering correctly, stouts

are generally made from barley that has been more heavily toasted Giving it a much darker color, okay? Yeah, it's like dark dark coffee. Yeah Yeah, and there are there are many stouts have Like Brewers will throw coffee into the mix or it will be yeah, or just the caramel is your nervous system like Well, no, they're like, you know the Irish were on to something with their coffee so Straightly through the brewing process a lot of the caffeine does not make it through to the actual final product Which like is probably a good thing

But You you do get those coffee flavors You can get cocoa flavors in them and and depending on how you want to play with the recipe and what you want to throw Into it like the stuff. I like to drink. I'm I'm what you call a pastry stout guy Okay What he called you some sort of liver food Yeah, you know It's I I have I will admit I have a sweet tooth and like the one you were drinking

You said tasted like chocolate peanut butter There that's one of them. Yeah belching beaver Didn't want to call it queefing what no pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, nice nice one. Good job there And so anyway with with stouts because of because of the way it is created you get a darker color you tan Though not always To you get you get sometimes more bitterness you sometimes you can also get a lot more sweetness It's weird depending on how they want to formulate it

and the consistent Yeah, yeah like Oatmeal is is one that gets used a lot or oats and so It tends to be heavier in terms of viscosity and so it tends to be heavier in terms of viscosity Then than other varieties of beer and Like I kind of want to say it contends toward a bit of a higher alcohol content

But I know there's a lot of stouts that aren't particularly high in alcohol content. So part of that is just my own taste particularly high in alcohol content so part of that is just my own taste affecting what I'm telling you so yeah and we can talk about the you know the IVU wars and you know the change in like you said you're a pastry shop guy that's a fairly new concept and part of it is we add these adjuncts. These are things that are not typically in beer that can create additional sugars within the wort that creates a higher alcohol percentage in the final product.

But classically, stout was like a four and a half to five and a half percent beer. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a modern stout under seven percent, unless they were absolutely going for, I'm going for an Irish dry stout, or sorry, a dry Irish stout, or I'm going for more of a Guinness vibe,

or an oatmeal stout. And even then, I still see what like 7.5, but just the market wants for some reason every stout to be 12.5% right now. And I'm just like, I don't have the energy for this. I just, I can't do it. And you know, I just, every time I see a stout that's like like 6%. I'm like, I'm gonna drink that, because you're never gonna see this again.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's a stout. You've already told me a lager, you've told me an ale. You've told me an IPA. Okay, I think that's all the terms. Although you did just say a dry an Irish dry or dry Irish Yeah, what's driving out is is a stout like it sounds but the thing about the Irish? So there's also an Irish red is that they forgo hops or at least very minimally hop

Okay, what are they used instead? What's that? What do they use instead? They just skip it. They don't have a replacement There's like this is more than yeast and water fuck off Well, you have to be trying to add all this bullshite yeah, yeah, so You know they and they they're tough to do because of the fact that it has less ingredients, fewer ingredients, because you have to find a balance that doesn't make it sickly sweet or overly thick and chewy and hard to drink. So you have to be really good at brewing

to make those beers drink. Yeah So let me ask advanced beer making let me ask you this then because this came up in a different podcast that we did Where I talked about the Smurfs? Naturally as as one does Beers are like Smurfs. Yeah, they're all blue. Exactly. And they've got ugly heads. Yeah. No girls allowed. Right. Yeah.

Okay, so in the creator of the Smurfs, Péo, he was born in Charbic, which is in Belgium, in the same district as Brussels. It was called Charbic or the Charbic was called the city of donkeys Specifically because donkeys used to bring in a bunch of sour cherries So they could make their beer Which is it's called Creek lambic Creek Craig. Okay, so

It is that Sour cherries sounds sour, but also that's gonna be a lot of sugar What what would that be considered? So answer questions was a creek lambic. Yes. Yeah, okay So this is a fun one. I think you're a science guy right a little bit not not in the slightest, but okay Well do it. Never mind. This won't be interesting to you at all. No, it's still... No, I'm not one, but that doesn't mean I'm not super interested in stuff.

Yeah. So, a Cree Calambic is a very long process because of the high sugar content and the sweetness and also the tartness within those cherries. What they want to do is they want to get that flavor without, without the risk of being too sweet or too tart. Sure. So they use, um, a very specific yeast to begin and they also age it for like five years. Oh wow. They age the yeast or they age the whole thing.

So the yeast is the thing that devours the sugar to create the alcohol and kind of release the flavors. But they let it go for like five years. Occasionally they will introduce wild yeast. So they basically like, hey, we're just going to like open up our fermenter and see what goes in there and what happens. We'll pick out what happens, we'll blend them together Greek is a very specific style and it's very difficult to get right. Okay, so In Belgium where they had where they do that It's like they have I think like three places where they really crush them and They've been doing it for hundreds of years. But recently this is just a fun thing that I learned through doing the podcast

like you do for the years a Brewery down in San Diego was allowed to put in like modern technology into one of the places where they brewed that beer to figure out exactly this Like temperatures and how your beers react to these things They had all they had thousands of little tiny sensors to figure it out So they could like make a lambic in San Diego. It tastes just like a lambic in Belgium And that's just an insane bonkers fun thing Beachwood I need to Google it I know it Beachwood

I don't need to look it up. I'm going to Google it. I know it. Beachwood and Barbecue. Nice. This is to them on the episode I did with the Monks' Cellar in Roseville for their fourth anniversary. So that's five years ago. Oh, nice. I did their episode for ninth anniversary just a few weeks ago or months or whatever time works. Time has no meaning anymore.

I mean, as of this recording. Yes When it finally releases Six months ago now like yeah Okay, fine. They're gonna be celebrating their 10th anniversary when you hear this whatever you go check them out. They're wonderful they do everything right and The people are great and the food is great and they do all the alcohols not just great and the food is great and they do all the alcohols not just beer and their food is phenomenal and it's uh little spot all right okay that's my plug yeah yeah thank you all right so uh lambic is a... It's a sour ale.

Okay, it's an ale because it doesn't have the hops. No, it's an ale because it uses warm fermentation versus cold fermentation. Okay. Because they need to cook out the tartness and the sweetness. Yeah, effectively, yeah. Well, they're actually cooking it out,

they're actually letting it even out over time. Oh, so it just diffuses? It's the time, yeah. Well, they're actually cooking it out. They're actually letting it even out over time. Oh, so just diffuses? It's the time, yeah. Oh, okay. So as far as warm fermentation versus cold fermentation, the differences are gonna be in... So it seems antithetical. The cold fermentation will actually make your beer cleaner,

meaning that there's less stuff in there that affects the flavor. You would think a warmer one would do that, right? More temperature cooks out the stuff, but somehow the cold process, it allows it to fall to the bottom and your fermenter's assigned so that the stuff falls to the bottom

and you're pouring out above that pour out spot. So it allows for cleaner stuff. So it's gonna be crisper lighter Yeah, okay and and so the if I'm getting this right and if I I'm pretty sure I am but the Kind of kind of mass-produced macro brew kind of stuff that we see Pilsner yes is is the variety that that is when when you see somebody cracking open a Budweiser That is a that is a Pilsner style beer and that is a is a form of lager

So that is that is okay. That is the that is the stuff that millions of units get pushed every year Yes, you know worldwide really not just here in the United States but you know as far as our popular culture looks at you know Budweiser and Is he or and all that right? Yeah, and I should point out that loggers take longer to make because it's cold fermented And needs to drop down it also if you're doing it so Ales go in generally speaking a conical fermenter, so it's gonna be up tall uh-huh and then Loggering will be the logger tank which is long and short

be in a lager tank, which is long and short. So that more falls to the bottom. It's okay. But with modern brewing technology, you can still do a lager in a conical fermenter as well. It's just for nerds to do a lagering tank. And Sacramento just opened its first all lager brewery, Geist House Brewing off of Bradshaw. It's great Check it out. Cool. Yeah, okay. So thank you for letting me clarify terms Ed

Well, yeah, so let's see I think So when when you are looking at a beer like for your for your personal taste like what and you know you're you're an omnivore you drink everything but what what are the hallmarks kind of across styles what do you consider like the things the traits that you most enjoy when when somebody gets a beer right what what are the traits that you most enjoy I I think that and there's ways to gain this system but to me when you crack a beer or somebody pours your beard, hands it to you and you can smell it from like two,

three feet away and you're like, I know I'm going to love this. Um, that's, that's the thing that gets me is like, if the, if the flavor is, or sorry, the aroma is so strong, but delightful. Like to me, I think my favorite experience with beer is probably, I used to, when I lived in a giant house that the economy was great and I had a giant house that I had no business being able to be in, that I was renting for less than any place I've ever rented.

I would have people over for football, right? Cause I had a big screen TV, like let's have football and I'll make, you know, like breakfast muffins that had like bacon, eggs and cheese and all that stuff. But I would always crack an Oscar blues, old chub, Scotch ale, and let it, just open it and let it sit on a counter for like 30 minutes and the whole house smelled like fresh baked bread.

I'm like, this is the perfect beer. I just, you could not have, I'll still, give me it. I will always be like, this is a beer that you just, you open it and somebody's gonna be like, what is a beer that you just, you open it and somebody's gonna be like, what's that smell? And you're like, yeah, it's nine and a half percent. Let's go. You know, but I also started that day.

Of course I start that day off with a Lagunitas espresso stout, you know, cause it's morning, we got to have coffee. We can't just be drinking beer. We got to have coffee. And I know it's not actually you know, you know caffeinated But I got my friends don't know that There you go, perfect, yeah So

do you like as somebody who is a You know a beer a beer aficionado as a beer drinker a you know a beer a beer aficionado as a beer drinker do you like cooking with or eating food that has been cooked with beer or does does your love of drinking it not quite carry over I don't think I really care I've had I mean I have a friend who makes me beer cupcakes on my birthday and that's dope and they're delicious, but I think they'd be delicious without it. So I do like beer braised meats.

I get it. I know what they add. I don't feel like it needs, like honestly, I like beer and food pairings more than I like beer infused things. I think putting the right beer with the right food beer and food pairings more than I like beer infused things. Okay. Putting the right beer with the right food is one of the great things about beer compared to most alcohols is because there's so many varieties,

you can match it with so many things and you can be surprised by what things you can do with it. You know, complimentary flavors versus like antagonistic flavors that somehow work. You know, that's what I, I enjoy more than like oh we put beer into this bread And then the alcohol could doubt and also most of the flavor You know, it's just it's like people going crazy about bacon back in the early 2000s Yeah, we're still today for some reason. Yeah, it's because it became their personality and how how did it become anyone's personality? I just like yeah, there's political movements that have done the same thing and we're witnessing All kinds of problems that are similar. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm a beer guy. I love beer

I don't think I've ever made it my personality and I have a beer podcast I do shows at brews because they know me from my beer podcast and I don't think I've ever made it my personality and I have a beer podcast. I do show those at brews because they know me from my beer podcast And I don't think I've ever made it my personality to be yeah Like yeah when you are talked about on the in the community. It's not there's been the beer guy, right? Yeah There's been who read Alex Haley's roots when he was in second grade that comes up, but not there's been the beer guy The autobiography of Malcolm X. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, which was written by So I mean you're not far off. I was off by a book. I mean not written. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, ghost written. Yeah. Yeah Collaboration there we go. Yeah, that's the term. Yeah

Collaboration there we go. Yeah, that's the term yeah See I I am the ones that's told to is how they were done the book. Yes. Yes as related to Alex Haley yeah I I do all the cooking in my house and and so like certain recipes I I don't want to use water if I if I have beer handy, okay, so You know chili when I make chili for example. Yeah, I'm pretty sure anytime recipe another layer of flavor Yeah, and and you know the joke I've made with with friends is anytime a chili recipe says add water There they're misspelling beer. Yeah

Yeah, like I want a hearty chili and water is not gonna do that for me no no Absolutely, there's reasons to have beer Then I had another question and it flew away. Well, I'll step in then. There is a mythological happening, and I don't mean as in it's not real. I mean as in it is legendary amongst every person I know in this damn town. There is a beer called Pliny the Elder and a beer called Pliny the Younger,

and people lose their fucking minds anytime it is brewed. So first of all, it's not brewed all the time is what I gather from that. Pliny the Younger is not brewed all the time. Oh, okay. Pliny the Younger is brewed all the time. Well, that's interesting. You can get Pliny the Elder at certain bars all the time. Yeah.

Oh, okay. So what's going on? With with those what the hell like cuz I I come to knowing Pliny the Younger and Pliny the Elder through their actual writings in Latin. Yes. So the Brewers Russian River Brewing is Santa Rosa and now also Windsor Their bunch of nerds that it's a married couple. This is a nerds, great. So Ply the Younger is their double IPA,

so it's gonna be more hoppy than a typical IPA. More hops, more hops, more alcohol, right? And so that was one of the first double IPAs. And one of the first double IPAs. Okay. And one of the first, and so when they first made it, it was not year round. It was once in a while and it was this scarcity. And Ruston River very much does that as a business model,

is their scarcity model. Sure. Where they control, they don't give it to a lot of accounts. Right. They try not to flood a market with anything. You can find our beer at four places in Sacramento. You can find it at one place in Fairfield. They're very much control their...

People go ape shit trying to drive over there to get it. And so, Pliny the Younger is their triple IPA version. So instead of being like... Because I think plenty the younger is Or sorry find the elders like I think nine maybe nine and a half percent And I think the younger is eleven point two or so. Okay, and that's a huge event. It's a bonkers event and Lines around the block for it Yeah, like I'll have different group chats that I didn't know people gave a shit about beer and

Suddenly that'll happen and it's it is like I live in Hawaii and somebody fucked up the EMS like yeah like it's it's weird it's like Okay, I guess I got to figure out a way to fit my head between my knees cuz yeah Hey season is fucking weird. Yeah I Between my knees cuz yeah Yeah, I Actually, I have a story related to this my my brother-in-law works for a really big multi hundreds of millions of dollars a year elect electrician contractor in in San Francisco and

As a as a perk for all of their you know management management guys above a certain level the company sponsored a trip for them all to go out to Russian River brewing okay for so they could get you know a growler of Pliny the younger okay real quick your terminology and mine might be different to me a growler is when you have to shit really hard Okay 64 ounce bottle that they will fill on site for you. Oh Three to five days. Oh, yeah 24 hours once you open it. Yeah, and

so yeah, I The first and only time I have had plenty of younger was at a family get-together about I don't know three or four days after They had they had done this thing. He cracked it open and I was like, okay He's offering it and I don't like IPA and this is like a triple IPA. So like this is totally not gonna be my thing But I would be really you've had it. Yeah, but it would be rude to refuse and this is like, you know This is kind of like Mecca for yeah Yeah, and and what I what I will say is

It was in fact like being smacked in the face with a baseball bat dipped in in extra pine tar But I could still tell that it was really well made Was the thing that was like I was sitting there drinking it and I was like number one I'm getting lit instantly because holy shit, the amount of alcohol in this. But it was like, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling my entire face want to pucker because the amount of hops in it. But I'm like, but I can also tell that this is like, if you're into this, this is really good.

It's like they put sawdust in our bread, but it's from the finest lumber. Okay. You know, um, and the finest lumber. Yeah, okay, you know And and I don't I that analogy kind of fails because like that's shit Hey, they put like it's like a really dense piece of bread and you're like, yeah This might be too much wheat in this. I think there should be more bubbles in this right? It's just a giant rock disk disk of red right but also they made it they did work yeah they made they made the brick of red work okay okay so that's plenty the younger and plenty the elder is a double, and and it is fairly it's not on around I would say yeah an elders and an intense experience. Uh-huh

It's and the thing with triple IVA is if they do tend to get a little because there's so much hop And the oils get in there it it does kind of become syrupy Okay Yeah Okay does kind of become syrupy. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you've done your podcast since 20, you said 15, 16. How far have you gone in terms of geography from where you are?

I think the farthest away brewery I've done is Half Acre in Chicago. Did you fly out or drive out specifically for that? Or that was you had another thing and then you doubled it up? Okay. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think Chicago is the farthest.

I tried to do some in Maine when I go visit family, but it just never has taken, we never had a chance to do it. But yeah, Chicago, I was out there. I was out in the Midwest for a family reunion. I'm like, I'll drive. I'm going to drive to it. You know, first of all, because it was in North Dakota and flying into North Dakota is like a thousand dollars for no reason.

I'm like, I have a Prius. I'm going to spend less on gas. Yeah. Like driving like see stuff and visit friends and all, you know, I've, you know, I've been working the same company for 20 years. I have so much vacation time. I'm just gonna go do it. I'll do comedy in places, you know? And so after I did the family reunion, I'm like, I'm gonna go to Chicago for a week and do comedy in one of the best comedy cities in America and see how I do. Um, good by the way.

But yeah, I was like, well, I'm out here, might as well do a podcast. And I, you know, I asked some people, I'm like, who's, what's a good brewery in Chicago? Got a few answers, like who's a cool, interesting guest. Got a few answers. Got a lot of friends who have like these, these are good are good people have and those people didn't respond to anything. But it turns out a San Francisco comic was in Chicago for a wedding anyway and so we did the episode and it was a lot of fun. Yeah so I think that's the farthest but during, but during COVID, uh, you know, you pivot over to the digital and you do

those. So I did get, uh, some of my favorite musicians of all time to do the podcast. Uh, cause I was like, I, there are no boundaries. So I did one, uh, you know, in Toronto, Canada, uh, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, if you want to say that. Uh, and also in London, England. I've heard of that one. So that was pretty cool. That is nice. That is cool. So your format is you and a

guest go and talk to a brewer? Yeah well a brewery representative of any type. Okay. Whoever they think they could put on a mic and be okay with. Usually it's the head brewer or the owner but I've talked to HR reps, sales reps, canning line operators, just whoever. Cool. Yeah. But that's always fun. I'm like, oh, a different perspective. Let's, you know, some people are like, I don't even really drink beer. I am the payroll person, you know? Right. Right. And that's fun. And how do you pick your guest? Is that just an availability thing?

Is that here's a person who likes this kind of beer or has stood up for this kind of brewery or? You know, I think I usually pick the guest first. I mean, like what brewery would you like to do? Oh, cool. Or if I know a brewery would you like to do? Oh, cool. Or if I know a brewery has a certain style or like a certain clientele, like who I think would fit that.

So like for instance, down in Oakland is a brewery called Ghost Town. And they are former, I guess they're also still current, a heavy metal band, the ownership ownership is and so I'm like well There's a few well-known Oakland heavy metal bands. Sure. Let's see if one of them wanted the episode and So I did get a heavy metal band to be Onboard and then a ghost town never responded me. So they didn't ghost me but I could have

That's still out there, you know I have a band that wants to do the episode and it's just a matter of getting the brewery to want to do it Sometimes right right getting it getting it. That is kind of the nice thing about Having I found with our podcast. I have an entire file of topics. I've thought of And all I have all I have to do is just start researching them, right? And same thing, like you have a brewery that you want to hook up with or feature, eventually you'll get to it.

Yeah. And most of my bigger names have come from smaller people telling me to go pound sand, which is pretty great. I had a local brewery that had just opened. I'm like, hey, you know, I was in there on a Friday night. There's like three people in there. I'm like, hey, I need to get an episode. Cause I used to do like religiously every two weeks,

every two weeks, every two weeks, every two weeks. And now I'm like, fucking I'll do when I do it. You know, like COVID crossed the industry. They're like, like, I'm just trying to say a float, man. I don't got two hours for you, you know? I'm like, totally understand. That's fine. And now I'm like, you know. I don't got two hours for you, you know, right like totally understand sure That's fine. And now I'm like, you know, I don't have two hours for you either Yeah, and now we're back into contraction and now with the tariffs. There's just like they don't have the energy for it

I'm like, that's fine. I'm not gonna be mad about it And then like after COVID I had you know a home and a child and it's like well I don't really have but back when I used to be like every two weeks, every two weeks, every two weeks, you know, I was like, I need somebody, I need somebody. So I was like, I'll go to this new spot. Oh, no one's here. Cool. Here's my card. I've been doing this a while.

Here's where I've been featured. You want to do episodes like no, thank you. I'm like, you're empty on a Friday night. Right. What do you mean you don't want free promotion? You know? And so I'm like, well, I'll do what I always do. Shoot my shot with the big boys. And that's how I do an episode at Drake's in San Leandro. I have another one that said they're going to do the episode.

They're opening a restaurant version of their brewery. And they are like, you know what? No, we're not gonna be there. Like well, whatever You know, I'll figure something out and then like 10 minutes later. I get an email Hey, would you like to come to San Francisco tonight and talk to the world's oldest brewery? Oh, that's cool I'm like I have my equipment in my car I'm leaving work early. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. So I went and talked to the world's oldest brewer, brewery's current brewer and marketing rep.

Nice. So I'm like, yeah, sorry guys whose beer I'm not actually crazy about. I'm gonna go talk to this really cool people guys in a very exclusive event that had I think 50 people at it and I was invited and I'm like dope nice cool I'm always gonna do that okay like when I go to Maine first thing I do I get on Twitter and I DM Stephen King you know like I know likes beer worse it can do is say no right

yes ignoring me is not the worst thing you can do I think that's a totally reasonable response this to not answer at all And he's not answered at all He has not told me no, but I feel like he would say yes if he read it You know because he's a pure guy and he lives in maine and there's great breweries. That'd be fun He sells his books for a dollar to make movies. He would do my podcast, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah If you saw the dm, he would do the podcast Yeah but my daughter asks me, um Yeah, oh yeah, you saw the DM he would do the podcast But my daughter asks me

kind of on the regular cuz like I'll Come up to record and the kids are still doing their thing because I'm on the other end of where you're at as a parent And it's glorious But my daughter she's saying to me today. She's like I I'm still Amazed that you got to interview this person. You know, and it's, you know, and I was like, well, I asked. Yeah. It kind of comes down to that.

Like you shoot your shot. If they say no, if they don't get back to you, you're no further back than you were. So, you know. Yeah, I mean, I interviewed Charlie Bamforth, Dr. Charlie Bamforth, sorry, who worked at Guinness in the 70s and 80s and kind of like revolutionized what they do

to make their stuff available worldwide. He eventually emigrated to the US and took up residence in Davis, you know, and he teaches at their brewing program And I was gonna do an episode in a brewery in Davis and it just opened and I had a guest lined up He was like, hey man, I can't do it. I'm like, all right. Well, let's see if Charlie wants to do it He's like, well, I love that guy. He was in my class. I love him. He's great. Let's do it. I'll be there meat I'm like, he's not gonna show up and he did and we were did this tiny little

Brewery in Davis with like one of the most revered beer scientists in yeah current times You know and like I did a trip out to Denver and You know Like then there been a beer documentary that came out that a person I had worked with before is like promoting And I come to Denver. You should interview this guy and I'm like okay cool I like the documentary I thought he was a really fascinating character and also it turns out he brought sour beer to America in the mid-90s he was the first person to brew sour beer out here and they had been hired strictly to do that and so now I have that guy's number you know and then you know I'm out there and like oh

have you talked to this person we're gonna go go to this place. I'm like, oh, I always forget that they're here They're like great. Here's this person's number call them. They'll probably do it and just like You know, so yeah, it's it's that funny little hack of Hey, can I interview a thing? Can I interview you about a thing that you're an expert on and really like and get you to talk about it? It's like sure Yeah, that's the thing It's not even the promotion. There's like I like talking about it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well and like with our podcast I'm like you will do it just for the love of the game because like, you know, we have like four listeners

Yeah, and I've been doing it for a decade and I barely topped those numbers and that's fine At one point I was crushing those numbers, you know things happen, you know, COVID happens you turn a beer podcast political You know and sometimes, you know beard listeners don't appreciate that. And that's fine. So you opened that door. I'd like to walk through it. Go on. I'm a human being. Yeah. They're going to get an objected. Yeah. Some people don't like it. And I'm like, that's fine

Basically, I'd always Done my best to Offset the fact that I'm a white dude with a beard And Brewers are white dudes with beards by bringing in not white dudes with beards without Expressly saying I'm bringing in not white dudes with beards without expressly saying, I'm bringing in not white dudes with beards. So that was kind of a thing that I always tried to do.

I mean, you can't avoid it and I can't, you know. Yeah. And you want to talk to people and we're gonna be- It's like 90% white dudes with beards. Is it brewing and that kind of stuff is 90% white dudes with beards. Right, yeah, and so I Started the podcast with the idea that that's not going to be what i'm catering to

And I I don't think many people noticed. That's the important thing. Um, You know, it is you can present diversity without people realizing you're doing it right? You don't have to be Blunt with it. Like even at crookedoked Lane Brewing, nine years doing comedy out of COVID. We did summer shows outdoors, distanced. And I went a year without booking a single white male and no one noticed. These are great shows. And I don't host that show. It's the one show I do not host.

So even I wasn't on stage. Oh, wow. There was not a white male on that stage. Right. For a year. And no one noticed. Yeah. So, yeah, so I was doing that.

And then a local brewery was accused of sexual misconduct towards their employees and I did an episode about it and I'm like by the way that's bad and if you disagree stop listening like here's what's been happening for the last 70 episodes you may notice I've done video episodes and every guest has not been a guy who looks like me, right? Right. I've not always been a guy even, you know? Right, right.

And so I'm like, hey, we have a video episode. Guess what? It's not going to be three white dudes talking. That's for sure. You know, and I'm like, this has been a thing that I have not stated, but it's what I'm doing. And if you don't like that, you don't have to listen. I won't miss you.

I don't make money doing this. It's not costing me anything for you to stop listening. Whatever, I'll keep the people that I got. And I have three or four very passionate fans. Brad, shout out to you. You're probably the most loyal. So much so that he's come over to listen to our show for this episode.

Exactly. And also, that's's come over to listen to our show for this episode. Exactly. And also, that's funny is I usually end up being one of the most listened to episodes by guest on one, which is weird. Cause I'm like, I don't get any listens. Where's this coming from? No. Yeah, you did, I remember a hundred years ago,

you did an episode because there was a brewery that was using a derogatory term for people with disabilities. Yes. And you did a podcast, you did an episode kind of like, okay, explain yourself kind of thing. And I remember listening to it thinking like, okay, the guy knew, somebody had talked to the guy so that he knew not to say worse things. Yeah. And you know, you read the story and you're like, this dude's like 70. Right. You know, he's not some like 30 year old getting into the game. He's like, I'm retired. This is what I want to do in my retirement.

And I've only lived here and I've been known here and I'm not a particularly great student. And so there's this name that I've only lived here. Yeah. And I've been known here and I'm not a particularly great student. And so there's this name that I've had my entire life. I've been called it since I was, you know, eight years old. Right. It's how I'm known. I'm going to use it in the name. Oh, is that not okay? And, you know, I think I was interested in understanding that because I think the news was very much like, hey, fuck this guy.

And it was very one sided. I'm like, I think once you start looking at a person, you have to know who they are. And they did change the name, obviously. I think, you know, the fact that they were they ignored warnings Was interesting to me. I wanted to see where they were as People yeah, because again I what I want is history and stories, right? And that was a story to me and I always

Anytime there's an article that's like a quarter page, there's more there, right? Oh yeah. So I was like, let's get the more. Yeah. And it's not a particularly great episode. I don't think I think it was a very competitive episode. And it turns out the person who was complaining was never going to go there in the first place because they didn't drink beer.

But it became evident early on that we were not going to have a discussion that allowed for unity. But it's still a thing I did, you know, and I'm proud of it. I think I did what I could with the material to get both sides on the record. Yeah. And, you know, they had not talked to each other. Right. It was a fight through the media. And I'm like,'m like no we're gonna sit you down at a table across from each other

A beer summit if you will Was that a beer summit if you will? Yeah Yeah, if you recall, um back in the early days of obama's first term There was a police officer who came by the house of a Harvard, I think it was a Harvard law professor. The professor was black, the police officer was white, this is Harvard, so we're talking Boston area, and they were responding to a call of possible burglary, so they were following that protocol, and he was like, I'm in my my house leave me the fuck alone and I think he threw in a yo mama at one

point and it did not go well and so Obama being the first post-racial president said that we should have them both over to the White House for a beer and he did exactly that. I think he solved all of racism with that moment. Yes, as I recall, there have been no issues since. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I know it's all been cleared up. Yeah. We can all move on to other things now.

We increased democracy so much so that anybody was able to become president after that. Yeah. And we did a cool thing where if you don't like it, you can leave, but then we're like, but it got so, so good. We were like, if we don't like you, you can leave. And it's totally normal and good thing.

Yeah, yeah. These are all wonderful. I'm glad that we're progressing as a society. Thank goodness. Definitely not backtracking, digging our, scraping our claws against the things that we definitely should have moved past long ago. Please give up your childhood toys.

Yeah. It really sucks being a history teacher at this time who goes really slow because everything is coming back round. Like we had a spirit day. I think I've said this on a previous episode Like we had a spirit day, I think I've said this on a previous episode, we had a spirit day where it was white lie day, so a kid will wear a white t-shirt and then they'll write a little white lie on it.

Like there's one gal who said, my type is definitely not Hispanic males because she historically has only dated Hispanic males. Right, cool. Have fun kids. I don't sleep in class, you know, that kind of shit. I was very close to getting my own and just writing great replacement theory across it because that is the whitest of lies.

But a white shirt is not slimming on me, so I decided against it. But my students had just learned about great replacement theory and then had just learned about great replacement theory and then Elon Musk was on the news talking about how our immigration policies encourage replacement. So I'm just like, God damn it. I'm supposed to be teaching about this quaint time in the past that we've grown past. Yeah, it's like, it's history,

not current events for the love of God. Right? Yeah, yeah. Please, can we? Yeah. Turns out Spanish-American war This is also a current event. Yeah looking at you Greenland So yeah turns out a country founded for only White male landowners, and we're back to it. Okay. Yeah, great cool

Silver a cool thing to do. Yeah So well the first time this is how my beer podcast goes also. Yeah. Yeah, sure Well, normally we let's see. I I think we are deficient in the last two episodes We didn't really curse Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher And in the previous one or this loud. Yeah, you know, we all know hearts but dead dogs lie, you know But there and then I mean the anniversary Died around this time of year. It's a kid. Yeah, it's been on the grave here and there. Yeah No, I'm I'm I'm here for that

And we also I haven't brought up wrestling or done any kind of alliteration. So we're we're overdue. That's true You actually haven't you've been very pun light today. Yeah well, I when when I'm being taught things that I know nothing about I Cease to do Yeah Yeah Well, actually it's just I don't want my puns to get in the way of me learning new shit. It's really what it is

I'm just like, oh did you know? Yeah That the word street is actually a shortened stout Really no, I'm sorry. I'm short. I'm shortening south st. Street So that's where I'm gonna see I was going to the German word for street Which is strata and I was like, I don't know. I don't know where we're going St. Street Which is strassa and I was like I don't know I don't know where we're going I'm ruining. Yeah, I'm gonna do so many levels But yeah, um Ed do you have more questions for our guest here um You're the drinker yeah, well Kind of a I mean at this point most everything I have to ask is is kind of fluffy, but

What occurs to me right now is you know you've talked a couple of times about beer and food pairings and What what is your favorite one that you can remember like as a as as an experience? I'm gonna guess that you you Roll up a Swiss cheese slice really really tightly and use that as a straw to drink a lager ale. Well, first of all, you can't have a straw.

First of all. You son of a, have you learned nothing from this show? Did you talk about it? I was at a point, yes. Yes. I was convincing though for a second, there was a- You said a split second. Yeah.

A split second. So much so that you excused the Swiss cheese being rolled up and useful. Yeah, so let's see, you know, I... So much so that you excuse the Swiss cheese being rolled up and used. Yeah. So let's see. You know, I, Touchstone Brewing did their first dinner and beer pairing a couple of months ago. It was great.

But I'm struggling to remember the menu, but I remember there was like a few things like, oh, that's like, that's a shocking little combination. I wouldn't have done that. I don't remember what it was, so that's not very helpful. Um, you know, and to me, I just, you know, there's, you know, you drink an IPA with pizza or a burger, you know, drink a stout with a stew and all that, uh, you know, and, you know, stout's great for dessert. Um, so I, you know, and you know, stout's great for dessert. Um, so I, you know, I, hmm.

It's a tough one. Um, I do. Hmm. The thing. Okay. Well, I, it's not a food and beer pairing. It is a bad beer idea that I loved. Okay.

pairing is a bad beer idea that I loved. Okay. Is that Ballast Point made a curry IPA. Spicy curry IPA. Yeah. And my friend Andrew and I had talked about making one before it came out. And by the way, I'm a terrible home brewer. Turns out appreciator. That's fine. Well, you know, it is, it is a real skill set and there's, and there's a lot of places where it can go really well. And having an electric stove top, not great. You definitely need a big fire heat. Even, even would be an important thing to have.

It was called Indra Conindra. I'd had it at another bar and I drank it. I was like, this is a good, this is a good, it's like spicy and sweet and like weird. And I like it. And I liked it. And so I went to another beer bar and I'm like, can I like it and I liked it and so I went to another beer bar and I'm like can I get a pint of this and like I will give you a sample of it and I'm

like I am ordering a pint of this beer and like I'm offering you a sample like I would like a pint of this beer and like I really insist that you have a sample because everyone who's ordered this beer has returned it. No one has no one likes this beer. I insist you have a standpoint. Well I have had the beer and I enjoy it. Please provide me a pint. Like I know why they don't like it.

Yeah, it shouldn't exist. It's just that about it. Right. I'm not yet somehow. Yeah. And you know what? And you you you described it. You gave you know, the name of what it is.

And like on the surface. Yeah, that doesn't sound like that should work. But at the same time, I'm listening to that I'm like, you know Being a big fan of Indian food and knowing that you know, one of my favorite pairings is any kind of you know crisp light colored sharp kind of beer with All of that spicy and all of that everything going on like that's an amazing thing And so you said that I'm like yeah, okay That makes sense to me like it shouldn't

But also spicy food and IPA goes together great so why not make a spicy IPA yeah No, that's why not make a curry IPA. I wouldn't drink an IPA with a curry Yeah, I mean a logger also does great work a hobby logger special so like yeah, why not? Yeah Okay, cool Yeah, I mean a logger also does great work a hoppy logger especially so like yeah, why not? Yeah Okay, cool Very good by you Ed what's your favorite pairing? Well, I just I just mentioned one of them is Indian food and and you know any kind of you know crisp Kind of kind of beer like that

Usually in my case, it's it's kind of beer like that. Usually in my case, it's it's I remember the name of it. Double Eagle is is an Indian made like Pilsner. That is that is I know in a couple of Indian restaurants, kind of hole in the wall, family run Indian restaurants that I've been in they've they've had it and it's it's awesome. It's a great combination And then part of this is just nostalgia but with sushi I really like a weedy kind of beer like a Hefeweizen Okay, you know put some put some lemon juice in the half of Iceland and have that with with sushi

And that's that's a really good one And then Stouts With either a stew or a burger is Is one I'm a big fan of So yeah, okay, there's probably my top three Yeah steak and stout good stuff yeah, yeah So

Well, so go ahead. Oh well. I guess the last question. I have is as big a fan as you are And as much of an expert as you are on beer Is there any other? category of liquor alcohol That you have an interest in maybe not like as much as beer, but do you also?

like are you a fan of gin or you know other other kind of varieties of booze not at all Ed hate them all cannot get into hard liquor in any way shape or form every year like I'm gonna try them again and I'm like hey I hate. But but and this is a great promo where you got to a great point here at again, because of the contraction of the craft beer industry and and the wild fluctuations of proposed tariffs and real tariffs and fake tariffs and everything. And the fact that, you know, aluminum and steel and hops are very much now mostly external outside of the US.

I can't bother breweries. They're not responding and I get it. So I have pivoted barley in me to be, and also with, you know, the rise of the American drinking habits of low calorie, non alcoholic, not touching alcohol to begin with. A lot of my, you know, creative friends have stopped drinking or never drank like Damien, you know? And so I'd still want to talk to these people. And so I have pivoted to a new podcast called that's why I drink or sorry, this is why I drink. Okay. And then it's a whatever drink they choose.

So I haven't drink their favorite drink where they like to drink it. So that the first episode was peppermint tea in my house, you know, like nice. And that was fun. Perfect. No, I like that. That's cool. So it's you know So I can drink coffee. I can drink kombucha. I can drink water. I can drink a milkshake. I can drink whatever, you know And maybe something like hey, I really like this alcoholic drink and this is how I where I'd like to drink it This is how I would make it and I can be like learn from that and it's not always not always like, I'm, I know I'm going to like what's happening.

Now I don't know if I'm going to like what's happening, you know? Okay, cool. So that's me and I get my much wider swath of people that can be on there. I'm not reliant on a venue, you know, so it's it's it's it's also a thing I was thinking about because I, you know, during COVID, I was like, I think I might be drinking too much. So I've definitely like reeled it back. So I'm like kind of wanted to move away from Having that be a requirement is that there's beer involved. So is a nice little

Chance to do that that makes us getting messages of possible logos as we're talking Cool. Nice. That's awesome. Yeah so just as a follow-up question is it is it the overwhelming taste of alcohol that's involved in like distilled liquor or I Just don't think I've had one that I enjoy like, you know, I came into beer because like, you know, I like coffee I like toffee. I like Raspberry, right? No, I know it took me a long time to get to IPAs as well, right? Yeah

And so I think because the fact that beer has so many different flavors you can find something that fits you Whereas every other hard alcohol has like a specific flavor That you either accept you got it. Okay, and there's certainly no quality, you know, with brands, but like, you know, I don't want a PD Scotch straight up. Don't I know that's what all the pure Scotch drinkers want. They want this PD mossy thing and I want nothing to do with it. As a as a Scotch drinker. I don't get Pete either.

I want to I want to like help with that with that particular point, but yeah, no I Understand yeah, no that makes that makes total sense Yeah, I love a roush beer a smoked beer, but I do not want a smoky whiskey I don't want like I had mess cat. I decided I'd try some mezcal At a restaurant open industry from like, okay. This is like what you're gonna be serving. I'll probably be here Let me just have it's not a mixed drink, which was very good, but it had a bunch of stuff added to it Let's give me just like a medium level mezcal. That's like an entry but like not shit, right? And they gave me one on drinkable

Shit, right. And they gave me one on drinkable. Undrinkable. Who's who is this for? Yeah. Why is my chest on fire? And I hate what my mouth tastes like. So, yeah. OK. Yeah, I totally get it. I'm not, you know, I mean, you know, maybe maybe this is the time when I do the podcast, I'm going to get there, going to be like, hey, here's my favorite rum, which why is it so sweet?

You know, and maybe you know, yeah. Cause I don't really have a sweet tooth. That's also the problem. I don't really have a sweet tooth particularly, which why I'm like, Oh, pastry sounds, it's too much. You know, I totally understand that. Totally respect that. I mean, there's also really great ones. That's the thing about beer. There's also a really great one out there. And I'm sure there's a really great ones that's the thing about beer there's also a really great one out there and I'm sure there's a really great rum and a really great mezcal and a really great cognac and a really you

know I'm sure there are I know there are yeah but it but as great as they are and yeah I'm not gonna pay $25 to find out I don't like something yeah beer it's fun it's I mean that was eight but you can still get a sample no one's gonna give you a sample of a bottle that's on the shelf, right? Yeah, I just sample of that before you pour it for me. No, no bars giving you the same. No because that's called a shot Yeah, and it's 20 dollars and I don't want to pay to find out I hate it. Yeah, that's how they that's how they literally make their money Yeah, I'm not gonna fall for capitalism All right, well um This has been a blast. I Have to learn all kinds of all the listeners who just do a Joe Rogan length episode about this is normal for us

Oh, yeah, but still yeah This is him for us. Oh, yeah, but still yeah This is him criticizing us. Yeah I had a great time good good. He just don't anticipate anyone else. Well, I just It's oh, you know, I misread my clock. I thought it was I just like a quarter of my no We're fine two hours is totally normal. Okay. This is this is a whole week's worth of commutes for some people Yeah, it says 203 by revenues 230 and that's what yeah. Okay. There you go. Yeah two hours fine Two and a half hours of obscenity Who are we for Sazy right so alright normally at this time we like to plug Where we're going to be.

No, I apologize. Normally at this time we ask people, damn it, now I'm second guessing myself. Ed, it's been over 300 episodes and I'm still tripping over myself here. Are we doing books first or are we doing where you can find us? We're doing media first and then where you can find us.

Okay, so we're going to recommend something for people to read or watch or listen to, or you can plug things, and it goes me, then Ed, and then our guests. So I'm going to recommend to people this week that they read a book which just fell off my screen, there we go, is called The Alcoholic Republic, An American Tradition by W.J. Rohrabog. And it is largely about spirits and liquors, but it is a really freaking good book. It does talk about not just spirits, it does talk about beer somewhat, but it largely is

about spirits. And it's a wonderful look at America in the 17 and 1800s up into prohibition. And I read it years and years ago. I loved it, I bought it, and I strongly recommend other people give it a good read because you'll find, it's one of those thematic books books like I remember there's a book on fire that I once read and another one book a book on Hunger that I read and it's history through that as a lens

And so this was a really good book. So the alcoholic Republic by WJ Rohrabach. That's what I'm recommending Ed. How about you? All right complete Wj, Roar bog that's what I'm recommending ed. How about you all right? complete Departure from from the subject matter When my son goes to bed I Read to him and I sing him a song every night and Recently what I have been reading to him are the books out of the Dragon Masters series by Tracy West Because my son has dragons on the brain

Basically 24-7 so I'm either doing something really right or really wrong But they are great. I'm gonna highly recommend them as stuff for anybody who has a second or third grade reading level person in your life they're they're wonderful series of books they're exciting enough to hold interest without getting too scary or age-inappropriate and they're beautifully illustrated And yeah dragon masters by Tracy West and there's like 21 of them. I think she's at this point So yeah, so they're they're a long-runner. Yeah, so get started. Yeah. Yeah, so Ben. How about you? What are you recommending to people? Oh boy, I never done this podcast. I can recommend anything in the world So obviously my brain is spinning and I'm like, what should I do?

I have a platform. Who can I who can I platform the most? Who's the most important person I can platform? And I've settled upon Canadian singer songwriter Jordan Zadarosny He operates under the name blinker the star Has since the early 90s. He was supposed to be the next Kurt Cobain, but it turns out he was more of a pop songwriter. He had a million dollar deal with DreamWorks

when they had a record label. And he implemented a lot of strings into his grunge type of music. And the strings were provided by or orchestrated by Beck's dad. And the album totally tanked and you can only find it in Sacramento for like back when they had record stores. It was like $13 to buy it used because I bought a copy for anybody I met who I thought might

like it. So that I was it could not stay on a shelf in Sacramento. That I was called August Everywhere. After that, he stopped doing music for quite a while because of the disappointment of that experience and the cost of making an album independently in the early 2000s. But in the meantime, he took on a producer's role

and he has been Juno nominated, that's the Canadian Music Awards, for several albums he worked on. And then in like 2008, he built his own studio on his farm and has gotten back into song craft. And now he puts up like two albums a year. They're absolutely incredible. So much going on in every track. He's got one of the most distinctive voices you're never going to think is somebody else singing. You're always like that's Jordan Zadarowski singing. Incredible, incredible musician, incredible writer, collaborates with people all the time, always has new guests on. Yeah, I think you're going to find an album that's going to speak to

you. Yeah, like right now he's doing his last song was like a dark wave kind of throwback thing. It's yeah, just an incredible Nice cool star all right all right well. Thank you um let's see Ed You don't want to be found where can they find us we? Collectively can be found on our website at wubba wubba wubba dot geek history time calm We can be found on the Amazon podcast app, the Apple podcast app, and on Spotify. Wherever it is that you have found us, please take a moment to subscribe and give us the five star review that we know we've earned. And where can you be found, sir?

Well, you can find me and my team at Capital Punishment on the first Friday of every month at Comedy Spot at 9 p.m. Let's see as of this recording I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you still could see the August 1st show so August 1st 9 p.m. at Comedy Spot if you go to saccomedyspot.com and go to their calendar section, you can get the tickets, $15 a ticket. It is a lot of fun. The show is over nine years old now. And we have just really, really good guests

lined up for every single show. July was a hell of a banger and a very good episode. A very good show. So you definitely wanna come in for the August show. And while you're at it, come in for the September 5th show as well. That's my birthday. Same place, that's your birthday?

That's my birthday. Well see, that's gonna be the Ben Rice birthday show. So you know that shit's gonna get sold out. So get your tickets now. And also bring money for merch, because we are doing some really cool t-shirts and really cool enamel pens and stickers too for the kids. So again, capital punishment, me,

you'll get to hug me, it'll be great. So there you go. Ben, do you wanna be found? And if. Ben, do you want to be found? And if so, where do you want people to find you? All right. So yeah, I have been saying for years, follow me across social media at Barley and MePod. It's not barely in MePod, it's Barley and MePod.

But now I've realized that across the internet is actually a lie. It's just Facebook and Instagram and YouTube, I guess. Kind of. I'm not really particularly active on that platform because Twitter doesn't exist anymore and so neither does that. And I haven't made a move to Blue Sky or anything like that. So it's just those. I also have a website, BarleyMePod.com, that has all my comedy shows I run, all the comedy shows I do, all the podcasts I do. Got any shows coming up in August or September yet? Oh, of course I do. I have...

Cool. So my shows are pretty much monthly. The thing I really want to press is that you should check out my show, The Bomb Shelter, Silver Lining, which is where Luna's Cafe used to be. It is a national headliner show, Wednesday night at nine, second Wednesday of the month, where they get to do their new stuff for a very small, dimly lit, intimate crowd. Tickets are prohibitively expensive. They are $30, and I also get two great local regional openers for

them. The thing I like about it is it's national headliners on their day off doing the stuff that they're trying to work out. And also do that ticket price. We keep our entertainment dollars local. It's not going to Live Nation. It's not going to Ticketmaster. It's staying in Sacramento, to live nation, it's not going to Ticketmaster, it's staying in Sacramento, supporting a local business owned by local people. And because of the ticket price, I pay the performers above comedy level scale, which I think is very important.

I pay them better than comedy clubs do. So that's something I'm very proud of. I have lost money so far, but by August I'll probably be rolling in it Oh god, yeah, I mean look at who's even in there in August, you know who who's who's I mean? Just it's insane. Like I know grant lions there in September, but in August we're gonna I thought so it's Michael Harrison Out of Canada, I've getting a Canadian comic coming in Wow. He's making a special trip to do the show That's nice amazing cool. Yeah, pretty cool. Well get your asses down there. It's a Wednesday night. What else are you doing?

I mean come on. I spent $30 on local art. I'm like a unique piece for the show that we did ocknough the end So you get this like experience that I'm adding in unique intros I got the bug up my ass the night before the last show to do an acapella theme song and then I realized hey man you don't have time to do all that so I actually just found an instrumental track I already had on my phone and then I wrote intros that were not sung that were humorous. And so I'm like, okay, let's do a different kind of intro thing for each show. Because I just, you know, again, if I have an idea, I'm going to put it into practice.

So that's my big show, Crooked Lane, usually November through March-ish, usually a Saturday night, usually the second Saturday. Then there's the VFW post 67 show. That's the VFW cross from the UC Davis Health Center on Stockton Boulevard. First Friday of the month 6 p.m. 1800 hours. You can be so kind. Usually have a veteran on that show in some sort. It's $10 for civilians, $8 for military, and $5 for VFW members. We got Fort Rock Brewing, which is now every three months. So I think when it comes to this release, the next one will be in October.

And let's see, what else do I run? God, there's so many things. Moxa Brewing, Moxa Ha Ha, that's the final Tuesday of the month, 7 p.m. free show. Come by, check it out. Great. There's probably a cutthroat comedy, whenever Punchline lets me do it. I know I said stick it to Live Nation and Ticketmaster,

but occasionally you do work with them too. I'm sure there's one more, but that's okay. You know what? The person I've forgotten, my apologies. You know what? Come to one of his shows and then ask him about that next one. Just go to Barley Me Pot. It's on there. Yeah, there you go. Barley Me Pot, it's all on there.

Again, support live comedy. Like people on average maybe go to one and a half every two months. So, you know, up that ratio. Go to ours, go to his. They're all spread out. I'm not taking a spot that's near the other stuff. Yeah, so there you go So what are you waiting for? All right? Well Ben? Thank you so much for being on our show I've been I've been wanting to make this happen for quite some time and so I'm very grateful that you could make the time for us tonight So thank you Awesome now I can have you on since I don't have to make you drink beer. That's true or

Wait until I turn 50 because I have a plan. I Don't know your current age. So I'm 47. So okay three years. I'll probably be dead by then. Okay, um 50 50 um, but but Anyway, so thank you so much for being on Ben Rice But anyway, so thank you so much for being on Ben Rice for a geek history of time I'm Damian Harmony, and I'm Ed Blaylock and until next time keep rolling 20s