A Geek History of Time - Episode 328 - Two Teachers Who Left (the classroom) Part I

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Item one, hit the grocery store, item two, laundry, item three, over three, capitalism. You know, for somebody who taught Latin, your inability to pronounce French like hurts. Oh, look at you getting to the end of my stuff. Mother fucker. But seriously, I do think that this bucolic, luxurious, live your weird fucking dreams, kind of life is something worth noting. Because, of course, he had. I got into an argument, essentially, with some folks as to whether or not punching Nazis is something you should do.

And they're like, no, then you're just as bad as the Nazis. I was like, the Nazis committed genocide. I'm talking about breaking noses. Drink scotch and eat strict nine. All right, you can't leave that lying there, luxury poultry. Yes, yes. Fancy chickens. Yes, fancy chickens.

Pet, pet, fancy chickens? Pet fancy chickens. This is a geek history of time where we connect nerdery to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock, I'm a world history teacher at the middle school level here in northern California. And right now, my in-law is my in-laws are visiting. visiting, and my son is going to have the opportunity to sleep outside in a tent for the first time in his life, and he is so incredibly stoked. I cannot begin to tell you. And for me, the funny part of it is the tent they're going to be sleeping in is one I have owned for, I tried to do the math, and I think it's something like 15 plus years, and have never taken out of its bag before. I flirted briefly a number of years ago with the idea of getting involved in the SCA

which like so many people listening to the podcast are like, of course you did. And never followed through on it again. Of course you didn't. And so yeah, I've had this tent for forever and now it's actually going to get used and yeah, I have all kinds of feelings about it but my son is just absolutely stoked.

So that's what I have going on. on right now. How about you, sir? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I am a U.S. history teacher at the high school level up here in Northern California. And I, okay, you know the game civilization, or no, Age of Empire 2. You know that game, right? Okay. I'm familiar with it. Yeah. So I, I am not addicted to it. I'm not obsessed with it, but I'm a level down below obsessed. I'm, I'm reaching for that more than I'm reaching for zombies right now. Okay. So, and I don't know why, but Whatever it is, it keeps me glued to the couch for like two to three hours at a time at night when my kids are not home. What I found is that I've lost six pounds because being on the couch playing that keeps me out of the kitchen raiding the fridge.

So this is a game that's been very good for me. I might almost, yeah, I might be changing two digits by tomorrow night. All right. on my weight so you you might need to like try to find a way to do a study out of that and submit it to a medical journal because that might be the first time video games have led to weight loss right so leave it to me to find the way yeah but so for people who know I'm I'm I've dropped down from um um uh don the rock Morocco and now I'm closer to uh Tito Santana and when he retired So, as we all know, I keep my weight according to weight classes of wrestlers from the 1980s. So, anyway, so, Ed, we have two guests here tonight. Yes. Similarly, as we did last time, but this time it's going to be a different thing.

We have two people with us, two people who used to be classroom teachers who are no longer classroom teachers. And starting off, I would like to introduce. your favorite teacher's favorite teacher a teacher a womanist a mother and a caregiver and someone who dresses better than all three of us put together uh dominique williams how you doing dominique hi i'm doing all right good um thank you for joining us uh let me also introduce uh to your left my right uh a math educator a dog lover a fan of the highest forms of comedy a laugher and a crier Ms. Kendra Asbury. Kendra, how's it going there? It's good. It's good. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So thank you both for joining us. I'm going to start off just by asking real quick, when was the last year that you were in the classroom? So either of you want to hop in on that. Go for it. I think the last year I was in the classroom was 2020, 2021. Oh, wow. Okay. That's going to feed into some fun questions later. Okay. And Dominique, how about you?

I exited in September 2021. Wow. I saw the pattern. Yeah, that lines up with some things, does that? Yeah. But that was September, too. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Let's go back to the beginning. Dominique, I'm going to start with you. Who is your favorite teacher? Sometimes when I think about my educational experience, I think I've had a lot of amazing educators in my path, and it almost feels like unright to rank them with a favorite. However, because this is a pretty important question in the reflection process, like as an educator, right, I always have an answer that I think makes sense. And it's Kenny Long, who was my high school dance teacher. He was my teacher for all four years of high school. And at some point, I had him for two periods in a day. And the why of why he was my favorite teacher has developed so much, especially as I became a teacher. Mr. Long, I just told my friend a story about how we were in class one day, and my friend was

like absentmindedly singing the lyrics to drop it like it's hot by Snoop Dogg and Farrell, and he caught what she was saying out loud and was like, what did you just say? sit down and then it turned into a whole like mini lesson um but at another time he reminded us that the american modern dancer martha graham didn't start training until she was 19 which in dance was a pretty big important thing to think about uh before we had language like growth mindset he was planning to see it around a growth mindset and um when we would have rehearsed He would bring out like a loaf of bread and a jar, pin a better in jelly and set up a station. And like that just blows my mind now, right?

And in our field trips, we'd go to the California PE Health Ed Recreation and Dance Conference. And he built in a stop at the outlets and we, you know, kind of do whatever. And we all like went on a field trip and figured out. just being together and taking care of each other. And there were plenty of queer kids in my dance class. And the queer boys got to dress in, like, this closet that was this designated, like, queer dressing room space. Like, he understood it.

No one had to train him. Right? So just like all of those things makes him, you know, top of the list. Yeah. Which isn't to say the other ones weren't amazing. No, yeah, yeah. You can name one of your favorites. I probably ought to retool that question.

That sounds like a person who really understood the point of community and the importance of safety in a class where you're expressing yourself physically. Totally. And he'd pick up all of our costumes. He designed them himself. He had his own sets. I mean, we ought to take set designing into performing our high school. But he'd shop at a store.

called out of the closet, which is a pretty, it's a known chain in some areas. But it was also, it's a chain that's dedicated to, uh, AIDS and HIV care. Right. So like, even as a young person, like, I knew that that was the go-to place. Like, this man had an influence on so many of us. That's neat. That's great. The compassion involved in all that is what's, is what's coming through to me. Yeah. The, the level of empathy there is, he sounds like an amazing. individual. He was also the school site council person. He was the first adult to pull me to the side and say, you know, if you keep doing things for people, they'll keep asking you for things. And like, you can say no to things and like not have a full plate. And he was also

one of our union reps. And I really knew that when it came down to business, that, I mean, I didn't know, I didn't really understand how teachers unions worked as a teenager, but I certainly knew that he was a fighter. Nice. Kendra, how about you? Who was either your favorite or amongst your favorites? Yeah, I was really lucky, especially in elementary school, I have a lot of really fond memories.

My third grade teacher, Mr. Ford, was really into the sciences. He started the garden at our school, which I didn't appreciate at the time. And now that I'm adult, I definitely appreciate more. Mr. Maxwell, my fourth grade teacher, I think the word that comes to mind when I think of him is adventure. We were always kind of exploring and kind of investigating and having, you know, different elaborate projects to help support our learning. And I think the third person whose class I really enjoyed was my seventh grade anthropology teacher. And it was a triple block. Our core in seventh grade was a triple block, which if you could only

imagine having the same kids were three periods in a row. And, you know, it was, it was separated during those three blocks. The social science was anthropology, and it was very strict. We were taking notes in outline format with the, you know, intention of building that endurance towards really serious studies. And that was just one of the three blocks. But, you know, we had a lot of fun kind of exploring the parts of anthropology that made it really exciting at that age, right? That made it feel different than a history class or how you would perceive it. And in particular, that teacher really got to know us really, really well. And we had what was called a potlatch where we were kind of exploring different

customs and traditions. And we were all given a character, right? So I was a person from one village who actually married into another village. And I had to play that role of having those kind of alliances or allegiances to both. And he assigned all of our, you know, motivations based on the personality of getting to know us all year, which made it like a really interesting simulation. I don't play D&D or anything like that, but that's probably the closest I'll ever get. cool that sounds awesome adventure yeah like that's that's cool a triple block too that's i think all of us our eyebrows went up when we heard that you had anthropology in seventh grade like that was shocking to all of us yeah i think at that time the triple block was reading writing and then history which for

gate was anthropology gotcha that's cool back in the day um ed how about you who's your favorite teacher in our last episode, I talked about Dennis Morgan and rather than belabor at that point, even though he would deserve it. The other teacher who's had the most influence on me as a teacher is another teacher I didn't actually have as a student, but he was one of my master teachers when I went back to my high school as a student teacher.

And that was Ted Parent. And where Mr. Morgan was all, compassion and empathy and you know um kindness and all all of these kind of things uh ted parent very clearly loved all of his students but you would never hear him admit it and he was he was the most sarcastic teacher on campus um and um he he was also union rep and um he he was unafraid to get into a two-sided screaming match with the principal while I was a student teacher defending one of his one of the members of his department who was being unfairly targeted and so he he set he set the example like the mirror example of the two halves of my teacher

personality I guess and he was just he was a great guy and And I miss him. So he'd be the other one. How about you? Well, for me, I'm going to, so last time I think I spoke of at least two. But this time, and they were both history teachers, as I recall. This time I'm going to talk about Beth Firstenthal. She was my English teacher in 10th grade.

And she was the one who told me, she called me up to the front of the room, not in front of everybody, but up to her desk. And she points to my paper that I had written, and I was a very good writer. And she points to it and she's like, I don't know where you got the idea that you're a good writer. I can't understand a word that you've said. And so clearly she was wrong. And it was not me but her. And that was like just, I mean, talk about dunking me in ice water. It was exactly what I needed.

And I had all the passion, but none of the articulation. And she was pointing that out in so many ways. She had a comment key that she would use. 46 numbers long. You had the comment key with you. And I couldn't make heads or tails of it, which shows that I had, for whatever I had, it wasn't discipline. And I dare say it wasn't even talent. I just had passion, maybe. And an inflated sense of my own ability. And she, man, she took me to task. And she was hard. I did not do well in her class. And I had never not done well in in English class because I was able to dazzle all my teachers, and I couldn't dazzle her.

So the next year, I ended up in another teacher's class, and this woman was, forgive my language, but bat shit crazy. And she, we were reading the bean trees by Barbara Kingsolver. And she had this whole lesson on, at one point, Estabon takes the pop top off of a can and says, this is fitting for American dreams, and he makes a wish, right, instead of a coin. and she's like let's get into that which is totally fine like i have no problem with somebody deciding that they're going to build a whole lesson around that metaphor but she's like what do people what comes with pop top rings and of course a bunch of the jockson class were like

beer huh and she's like that's right but what else and like some of the gals that dated them were like diet soda because stereotypes have a foundation in reality and uh and this is in walnut creek so you can just imagine um but uh and she's like that's right and what else and she's She was just that like, let's get to the depth of it. And nobody had anything. And finally I just raised her hand. I'm like, lipped in iced tea. And she's like, they do?

Like, yeah, that changes everything. Like, no, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. None of this changes anything. What are you talking about? And I had such a problem with how maybe she was brilliant and I missed it because clearly I thought I was brilliant and it was missed. So, but I went down to the counselors that day and asked to transfer out of her class. And the counselor said, well, the only other teacher that we could transfer you into is Ms.

Fersenthal, I said, I will take it. And they're like, you had her last year. Yes, I know. She was, like, looking at your grade. She was really hard on you. Yes. But I know what I'm getting into. And I'll learn from her.

I'm not learning squat here. I'm just getting, I'm allowed to get away with my crap here. I want her. And so I went back to her class. And she whipped my ass again. At the end of sophomore year, she had told, I was like, yeah, I think I'm going to go for honors English. She's like, you don't have the ability.

You don't have the discipline. And I was like, oh. And she was not wrong. Like she was giving me honest assessments on my, on where I was on my journey. And so I came back to her junior year. And it was a delight. I got my ass whooped so hard. And I learned so much.

from her. And she and I are now friends, which is really cool. But, but yeah, she's just, she was amazing. She was absolutely amazing. And other kids who did have more discipline and more, more polish, they, they loved her too. So it wasn't just, you know, we troubled self-important ones. It was like tons of kids and tons of teachers. And she ended up, she was a union president at one point. And like, she's, I mean, she was just a badass. Like, she was really, really, really, really good. And yeah, she's, I love her. I think she's fantastic and I love recognizing her.

So, Ed, next question's yours, man. Yeah. So now that we've waxed Rhapsodic about, you know, some of the teachers that, that, you know, uplifted us and gave us these wonderful examples, who on your list was the opposite of it? that like who who and you don't need to mention names if you don't want to be you know like calling anybody out uh to our whole audience of like 15 people um but who who where I'm trying to I'm trying to modify the question to match the who was one of your favorite teachers who was

one of your least favorite teachers and uh Kendra will throw to you first it's so funny because I was actually like, I don't even think I remember his fucking name. I don't even think I remember his name. He was my senior year AP lit teacher. And, you know, I was phoning it in. I'll be honest. Senior year, you know, I was one foot out the door. I was ready to be done with high school and everything.

And very traditional. He oversaw this requirement. I'll put requirements in quotes. of our high school to do a senior project, and the senior project had three components, a written component, a presentation, and a demonstration with a demonstration. Okay, so just like learn a new skill, write about something, and then present to the panel about it. And for the longest time at my high school, this was a graduation requirement, which we all know now, you cannot add on top of the state requirements for graduation.

So I don't think it is in place anymore, but it had been in place for 15, 20 years. And it was his baby, right? But I, you know, I have lots of feelings about it. And I picked a really ambitious topic to write about. I learned how to play the drums. And I wanted to write around the neuro effects that music has on the brain, which is not a topic that a high schooler can really take on, without really background knowledge of brains.

And I just remember sobbing on the floor of the office in my parents' house with these index cards and trying to collate them into a way that like a research paper would make sense. But no, this needs to be first. And then I can talk about this. And I'm just having a meltdown. And so the next day I say, I can't do this. I have tried my hardest.

And here's an alternative topic that I would like to get approved. And he was just an absolute dick about it, had no questions. as to why I wanted to change and just told me, Kendra, you're always making things harder than they have to be. Yeah, so, yeah, that's a dick move. Yeah, he also told our class that he gets alone for Jamie Lee Curtis, which is very inappropriate. Get alone for her?

Yes, gets alone for her. I don't. Meaning masturbates to Jamie Lee Curtis. Oh, gets. alone. I thought he didn't like goes to a bank and receives money that he has to put L-O-A-N. No, yeah. So just clearly impulse control with his words were not present. And, you know, the comment he made about me making more things difficult really impacted me because it came from a desire to do well. So that sucked. But I I pivoted to his other comment just to illustrate the fact that he clearly was like losing the plot a little bit maybe

at that point in his career. More than maybe. Unable to read the room. Like I had a teacher tell me, I don't know where you thought you could write. You can't. That's what I needed. And she provided that.

But like I don't think she would have provided that to a more sensitive student or one who was not in need of deflation. Right. And he. Oh, I absolutely, Dominique's laughing at me. Oh, you know me. Like, I absolutely need deflation all the time. Like that's, yeah, but wow.

One of my, one of my classmates went on a backpacking trip through Europe after our senior year, actually ran into him in a pub in England the summer right after because, you know, you just got to be 18 to drink there. Raise your hand if you think you know where this story's going. No, you do not. Oh, thank God. It's not, yeah. But they get to drink.

drinking and talking. And he says that I made his top five most disliked students of all time. And I was like, I literally just didn't do your work. That's not really something to dislike someone about. So he's my least favorite because honestly, if I didn't do the work, I shouldn't have gotten an A. Clearly you weren't grading anything. This was before online grade books. And just a little bit, you know, emotional, I suppose, you know, versus just more measured in in his interactions. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. Sounds like an asshole. Like, Dominique, how about you? Yeah, I'm, I'm sitting with Damien saying

he needed deflation. I'm just like, wow, there's so much going on and like that reflection. And then also, I have been out of the classroom for a few years.

and I did make a classroom visit all day yesterday at one of our local high schools where we taught. And there was a young person going back and forth with the teacher in a way that would not have worked for me as a teacher is what I have worked. And maybe that wasn't, maybe that's the deflation kind of conversation you're talking about. And at some point, after listening to this experience, with this child and his little friends, I said, you know, I know your teacher is living her best life on the weekend. So I don't know where you think you would win an argument

with her. Like she's done everything that you're trying to do already, right? So I just like, that blew me away. So the deflation thing I'm sitting with. I'm also sitting with just like this typical type of, not typical, but this type of meanness that comes with that, that just never sits well with me ever. Even the most annoying child, I don't know that I'd be mean, right? So I'm just like, you know, and I know I've said at least one really inappropriate thing as a teacher that involved telling a student you need to say fewer things, right? Because sometimes they just don't know when to stop. Yeah.

Right. And yet, it wasn't coming from a mean place. It was coming from a, I want you to be street smart because the way that you're going on is not going to work out for you all the time. Yeah. Your teeth will be fulfilled at some point. Yeah. Nonetheless, my least favorite teacher,

certainly wasn't mean. He was actually very nice, very much like respectable, respectability politics. And his teaching style was, we are learning chapter one. First, we're going to read section one. Answer question one, two, three, five A. And if you still have time, you can do question six. and then we turned in an outline and then we went to the next section and then we did a little section review and then we read the next section

and then we did a chapter review and we had a test and at some point my friends and I who were athletic and I went I lived in South Central L.A. I went to Hollywood High School. It took me

like an hour to get to school in the morning and an hour to get back and so did my friends. And we were taking our algebra two classes and our like honors chemistry and whatnot. And at some point, we figured it out that we could just divvy up the chapter and then one of us would go home and type it and we'd turn it in in Times New Roman and the other friend would turn it in in Ariel. Ariel. And maybe we turned it in a 12 and the other one would turn it in in a 12 and a half.

And we'd reorder some of the words. And we just turned in three versions of the same outline. And then I grow up to teach world history, which I realize is an entirely problem. The framing of most of world history is so problematic. It helps you do none of the things that I currently do in ethnic studies, like critique colonialism. There are so many, many examples to critique colonialism and world history that we don't ever, like, you know, get to. The curriculum is a world tour based on colonialism. Like, it's, then Europe got boats.

Let's explore Africa now. Oh, yeah. I'm like. I'm never going to be able to look at the seventh. grade curriculum the same way ever again. Thank you, Damien. Oh, you're welcome. Not a high point.

History adds my thing. So, you know, we can talk about it all day. But I've learned nothing in this world history class, not a single thing. And that sucks because I was very curious. Yeah, based on that pedagogy, it's not surprising. You didn't learn anything. You know, it's interesting that that pedagogy is making a comeback. oh yeah certain teachers are being pressured into doing exactly that instead of anything of value so

so that's cool which makes sense actually because if you think about the age of the people who are in charge and when they came up and what they think history teaching should be they go back to their favorite class which was the one where we're going to learn chapter one today yeah first we're going to do the heading and then we're going to answer you know and yeah they were the one who answered question six and seven because they had spare time yeah so well that that sounds awful i'm sorry jesus so it's your question it's my my turn oh okay um so you get to kick into the person yeah okay i don't want to over tell this story yeah but i feel like it's it's an offline story it's like so inappropriate, but I'm also sitting with what my teacher did not see because he was at his desk

and a classroom full of very compliant teenagers. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's its own set of problems for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, wow.

as a as a shift in I don't know maybe tone but certainly in subject when when did you decide based on so we've seen the we've seen the high and the low in your experience dealing with teachers as a student when did you decide that becoming a teacher was what you wanted to do when and what what made you yeah we'll throw the two together when did you decide to do it and what is it that that drove you to make the decision and um started with kendra last time dominique how about you start us off with it cool so um kendra mentioned being in gate in middle school right so uh and i'm assuming this is in california because of something else that you said so uh in my middle school the gate track right i'm assuming i'm assuming my middle school had somewhere between 600 and 800 students. And then Gaytrak had a block that was ELA and some kind of social science. And then we all went to P.E. or some elective.

And then we switched to our math and science teacher. And one, my eighth grade U.S. history teacher was a Korean War veteran. perhaps, and his name was Orion Tanaka, and he was named for Orion, his next-door neighbor, who stored his family's possessions for the duration of the incarceration of Japanese Americans. And then when his family was decarcerated by the federal government, all of their possessions where we turned back to them, unlike many other Japanese family. So when he was born, the parents named him for him. He was the teacher that was really tough.

He used a system of ranking in our class that is what you would never fly today. He basically would handwrite who scored the highest on each quiz and exam and moved our rankings throughout the school. year. And one of my best friends ranked really high. I had no idea that he was performing so well in school. And I was so jealous that I was not on the list that I learned how to study. At the end of the school year, I was number two. But I was definitely, you know, second to last when we started. So I became the study person that like everybody in eighth grade wanted to hang out with at the library because I had a big stack of flashcards and I was turning them out. So fast forward to the really suck a year of 10th grade world history. My AP U.S. history teacher, what's her name?

Lenore Galvin, who's now Lenore Lawson, Larson. She was doing our best. I'm sure she went to her typical AP training. And she was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to make it happen. And she did. She was really tough. She assigned the summer reading. And she said, when you come in, you got to pretty much have like 15% of the AP U.S. history textbook already read because you don't have time to cover the whole textbook in the school year. And I didn't do that summer reading. And so she like figured she tried to pivot. And she just like had, she had us together cranking it out. At some point, she accused my friend of cheating. And my friend was very upset, I think rightfully so, and felt profiled.

And I don't know what other things, like this friend was experiencing. But I do know that in the high school cohort, which was, maybe around the same size as my middle school gate cohort, there were only four black students and we happen to be in the same period. Right. So at some point I thought I'm learning so much in APUS history. I love APUS history. There's black people in APUS history. And that's cool. I'm like learning all this stuff. And also there's just not enough black kids. Right. And also there aren't any black teachers that are teaching AP on my campus. So I'm just going to grow up and be, I'm going to grow up and teach AP. So I went to college and I was like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. And then I took some classes and accidentally double majored in history and African American studies. But yeah, I wanted to be a teacher because I learned a lot of history from Ms. Galvin. And I thought that, but other black kids should also know history.

Yeah, that's a great reason. Kendra, how about you? I didn't. I didn't want to be a teacher. I wanted to be, like many Americans, a lawyer. And I had a very strong sense of justice. and let's just go ahead and put it out there. One day I'm sitting in lecture at UC Santa Barbara,

and the recruiter comes in and gives us some of the data on literacy and math rate. And I don't know if you know where this is going, but I totally started drinking the TFA Kool-A Kool-Aid. I started, you know, I moved out of state, which, by the way, to be honest, moving out of state, getting your credential elsewhere, and then transferring back to California

is easier than getting your credential in California if I'm being able. Yeah, I didn't have to do teaching for free, nothing, right? They make it very hard. So my entry into the teaching profession was by way of just a really strong sense, personal sense of responsibility towards creating a more just world.

But it didn't always look like teaching initially. And then I got into it and I saw what my students were getting throughout their day. I'm a middle school teacher through and through. That is my passion. High school, but my heart lives in middle school. And there was just like a lot of really, and we've talked about compliance. We've talked about some really big topics that pop up a lot in education. But let me tell you.

I would not enjoy my days at all if I was having the experience that they were, right? And so then, you know, I became more passionate about it. And I saw how my personal strengths, you know, were an asset to the profession. And what I really love doing is creating learning experiences, especially around math, which we live in a very anti-math culture, just making it accessible, making it tangible, making it bite size, you know, releasing people feeling different emotions and developing a different sense of self-confidence than they've ever had in a math class, right? But I guess there wasn't really a moment when I decided to become a teacher.

You know, when I did TFA, it was, I'm graduating. What am I going to do with my life? This feels like a really important thing that I can put my strengths towards. And then now being, of course, on the other side of TFA, I see it differently. I probably regret being a piece of that puzzle and creating instability in the schools where TFA has a really large presence because it is a revolving door, right? The idea is that a first and second year teacher in all of their imperfections and biases is better than nothing or better. than a veteran teacher in some capacity. If we just give them a curriculum, a robot can do it kind of thing, right?

Right. And I always said, well, my place in education is in the classroom. I don't think I'll ever leave the classroom. And, you know, I'll pick up the rest of that in one of these that are the question. Yeah. Wow. I don't know. Damien, how about your answer to that question?

Oh, I read a folktale book in fourth grade. It was Pecos Bill, Slewfoot, Sue, Paul Bunyan. It was an American Folktales book, and I was hooked. Like, that was my foray into history, because from there, it went to U.S. presidents, and I was very big presidential history. If you remember from the last week, I was the kid who named all the presidents, much to the chagrin of the mean version of Sam Donaldson. But that was my eighth grade teacher, Mr. Seng, my first suspension ever. But not my last. But I had it coming and they deserved it both at the same time. I took my lumps to give them. So, but no, so fourth grade,

I read a Folktales book and then I got a book called The Look It Up Book of U.S. presidents. I still have it. I taught my children out of it during that month where nobody was doing was able to or allowed to do anything for the kids when we were on lockdown. My daughter ended up writing down that like no president until Zachary Taylor had been least qualified. And then she wrote after that until this one. so yeah it was good times um wow but uh but yeah so then it was that and then from there it was world war two i think like most boys uh who who are entering adolescence for some reason um and and the other thing that i really loved was the history of horror films i just really i got hooked on certain books about that kind of stuff and so it was like those those competing forces so from fourth grade on i knew i was going to be a history teacher and then when i got to to ninth grade it turns out I was really good at languages and I was like well stack that on because I didn't quite understand how teaching work but it was which is interesting because like I've known

what I wanted to do my whole life for my whole life practically like again you know I can stretch things back to when Don the Rock Morocco and Billy Graham superstar Billy Graham were in the ring together and it turned Morocco face and and they were feuding with Dino Bravo and Frenchie that's when I knew I was going to be a, be a teacher. That's a long time ago. The Ultimate Warrior hadn't even gotten the Intercontinental title by that point. So, I mean, you know, my understanding of history. But that was, that was it. My course was set, which meant that every step was about a mile wide and an inch high. Whereas other people, because I didn't figure this out until college, by the way. There were folks I ran into in college, and they're like, oh, so what do you think

about doing. I'm like, oh, I'm going to be a teacher. What about you? They're like, I don't know. I'm still kind of trying to decide. I'm like, wait, you're in college, you're paying money for this and you haven't figured it out yet? And like, no, that's what GE is for. And I was like, I thought that was just to make you better rounded at what you did. Like, and it was a super like, it wasn't even I was being rude or anything, at least on purpose. It was just like, I had no idea that people didn't know what they wanted to do their whole lives. And as it turned out, and this was merely anecdotal, I was the odd one out. Now, I think that that is still true, uh, that most people actually have a different path than the one I had. But for me, it was set from fourth grade on. I never did like

the lessons at home where I taught people things or stuff like that or I taught my stuffies or anything. I'd ever did that. Um, but I always knew I was going to be a teacher. And I think that's part of why it was okay with me that I had a teacher who pointed out like, no, you're terrible at this right now. Like, you know, and I didn't, I didn't take it like I tongue in cheek, there's nothing wrong with me. It's with her. But like even, even then I knew like, this is a good input. Like, there was a level of that. And that's, I think, why I resented the teachers that I resented because they were just dog shit at what they did and awful. And, and it's like, don't, don't you dare do that and I I my mom pointed this out when I graduated high school I hugged every teacher on my way back

to my seat she's like nobody else did that why do you do that I'm like because they were part of this whole thing like they told me what they did and what they loved and why they became a teacher and all that and she's like did you know that guy I'm like no I never had him and it was just like that was my approach it was like I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna be a teacher that's just all I'm gonna do So, yeah, that's, that's, it's thoroughly unremarkable and yet oddly, very, very strange all along the way. So about you, Ed, what made you and what and why and when? Well, along with the answer I gave last time, which was, you know, I found out that I was not going to qualify to be a tank commander. Um, there was also just the fact that I loved history.

I still do, obviously, but like, it was, it was always, it was always my favorite subject. Social studies was always my jam. Um, and I was good at school. Hmm. Um, you know, I, I was the kid that, you know, didn't really have trouble with tests. Right. And, you know, the way my particular. intelligence, you know, developed was, you know, heavily focused, you know, linguistic kind

of thing. And so writing came, came easily to me. And you know, actually good at it. Whereas well, it came easily to me too, but not, not with quality. Yeah. I never, I never got the kind of feedback you did. You didn't. I did, I did have, I did have a writing teacher in, in high school uh basically tell me i don't remember his exact words but he he was he was very blunt with me and he said you're coasting you know um i can tell that you have the capacity to do better and you're being lazy um which like i knew to be true but it still made me really mad sure um but yeah i i i was drawn to academia of some level. I mean, in my own mind, I think I always had this image that eventually someday I was

going to be a college professor. Sure. But, yeah, it was, it was always, like I said last week, it was always in the background. It wasn't going to be the first thing I did, but it was always kind of there. And then I wound up, you know, realizing it was going to be what I did. And then I got really, really passionate about the role that, Being a teacher would play in making the world a better place, you know, by leading kids to be more involved in paying attention to the world around them and being informed. And so, yeah, and then it was off to the races and there was really nothing else for me.

Gotcha. All right. Thank you all for that. I'm going to ask, what is your... And Ed and I have already answered this last week. So this is just going to be a two-for. Kendra, what is your favorite memory of teaching? Hmm.

I really wish that I had kept a journal when I started the career because there's the little things that happen every single day. Sure. Just little moments that I, you know, they're a part of me, but I couldn't tell you what they are now. The one that really sticks out to me is, you know, I had a third period class, which third period's rough, because the espresso is wearing off and the kids are waking up.

So it's just, we're just going in and you're just going on. Right. And you still have fourth period before lunch. So even there yet, right? And there was a group of students who more or less were tracked together throughout the day. because when you have a school of a certain size, things like advanced this or gait that kind of block off major parts of the master's schedule. And when you are in all of your classes with your friends,

you don't always make the best choices and you don't focus. And math in particular, we encounter a lot of avoidant behavior. And it's been going on for years and it compounds, right? And so a lot of the teachers talked about this group of friends, like a block just like a monolith right deal with this group of friends and i'm thinking you know like i need them to stop avoiding math i need them to kind of i need to remediate the math for them right i need them to also basically what i'm asking of them every day when they come into my

classroom is to like make individual choices when the rest of the staff sees them as a collective, make choices that are the right choices for them to encourage each other to see friendship in a different light. Friends encourage each other to make good choices, friends and together to work hard. And so it is really hard to ask middle schoolers. We want sixth graders to become ninth graders

in such a very short period of time in terms of their self-advocacy, their communication. there's just so much that we expect them to garner in those two to three years. And I was working really hard and, you know, when you are consistent and the kids know, if I do this, I will get the same result every time, eventually we'll start coming around, right? And Raphael has been working really, really hard and he's working really hard, but he's working really hard to maybe get 50% of them correct, right? And so that is a really frustrating experience.

And I'm asking him to stick with it, right? And so he's asking a question. And I am just so stoked when I get questions from students. And my enthusiasm just kind of keeps them off guard. And he's like, wait, I like want to ask you this question. But I'm also kind of like, I'm not afraid of you. I think I respect you. And it was just this genuine moment where he just like, whoa, like, I don't have.

a teacher that I put into this typical box, right? And he was like, oh, I feel comfortable to ask this question. And I know that I'm going to get the support that I need. And also, I won't get to come in here and goof around. And it was just like this moment of like I saw, you know, a boy really kind of taking those maturity steps that he needed to be, which was fun to see in real time. Yeah. That's cool.

It's awesome. Yeah. It was a fun moment. we kind of kids and he started laughing at himself once he said it out loud sure um i i just want to say everything you were saying about middle school i i felt like in the marrow of my bones like a hundred percent um like we we expect we expect kids uh over the course of three years to to keep up with so many changes and expectations while their, while the frontal

portion of their brain, the analogy I use is like between the end of sixth grade and somewhere around the end of eighth grade, their prefrontal cortex is shut down for roadwork. Like, you know, everything is going through

their amygdala. They're miserable because everybody's miserable at that age and at the same time, we're expecting them to turn into high school students. Right. Yeah. And also, I'll say, I feel like we hold middle school high schoolers to higher standards than we hold ourselves sometimes right and so like they're still learning how to do that they don't even know how to do that we're supposed to teach them that

and middle school does like a really like you said a jumbled like the body's changing the hormones are going like nothing makes sense you know it's their first time through it too and and and they're going through it at that age yeah how about you what was your favorite thing about teaching Um, yeah. I'm like, because memory is skipping me. So the favorite thing is what we're doing. I'm here for it. Yeah. I mean, aha moments, right? Um, awareness of growth. Right. It's like so beautiful. I started this way. And then I, and I can see my own improvement over time is like so fun. Oh, yeah. Another really great part is, like, getting credit. Getting credit is due.

I had a student that I adored. He was just, like, very adorable, right? And he was also receiving, like, resource services on campus. And my school site when I was student teaching had an experimental model in which we had one cooperating teacher, like a backup cooperating teacher. And then we were all in a resource center for one period a day to like kind of do the special ed immersion in the process. And one student that I was working with was really behind in reading. and we worked on things and just like really breaking down instructional strategies with him one-on-one around like, you know, what are you looking for in a text?

What do you need to pay attention to, right? Like breaking down front-loaded vocabulary with him and then like helping him be meta about it and like all of those things that like, you know, it took me a lot of time to develop like for a whole classroom, but like I got to practice, you know, early on with this individual. And a few years ago, I was at Kyle Expo for one of the fairs, and I ran into him. And he told me that he was going to college and HBCU returning. He had completed a year. And then his, and then he went and grabbed his mother and brought her over to me.

And she said, oh, you're Miss Williams. You taught my son how to read. He was in ninth grade. Whoa. So that was like this like really, I really do love the process of teaching, reading, and writing through history and social science. It's so powerful when students are getting the history. the historical thinking and critical thinking skills and also reading faster reading more deeply

being more curious about reading and i just i love it right yeah yeah that's cool mine's just when a kid realized that the british were and i'm quoting her here they were just Dicks. So much more a lowbrow. I would ruin that for my students. Oh, how so? I would, because then I'd have to say something like we learn about anti-essentialism. And we can't essentialize British people through the colonial power with a kingdom.

and a system of representation that is largely based on wealth. So, right? Like, I know that after taking this world history class, you find it incredibly problematic that the British have colonized so many places. And yet, you still don't get to make blanket statements a lot of people. Right. It just doesn't work. We were studying the British East Indies company, and I think statistically, she was right.

So, but I hear you. Maybe if we narrow it down to just the British aristocracy. Yeah. The capitalist class. Now we're getting somewhere. The men of the capitalist class. There you go. To what extent?

What social identity markers indicate like a pattern in your statement? Girl, where are the examples? Like, I hear you making a claim. my notes are back at school all my stuff is in the office my in laws are sleeping in tonight so I can't I think it was right after I explained that they caused a famine

that killed 30 million people to drive up the price of things and that and that was like the 14th example that I had hit the kids with and so yeah I was just like oh nice that you paid attention through at least half of these so um which do you remember which famine

talking about British East India company which famine do you mean it was the one in India okay yeah and same question yeah no I know now I haven't been teach I haven't taught that since COVID like that was a pre-COVID lesson

that was the year that we locked down though so okay so god that was fun with the with the two of you that was favorite memory teaching. What was your favorite thing about teaching? I think we'll throw that one out to Kendra.

Yeah, I think Ed and I are going to stay out of that one because we have a current favorite thing. So Kendra, what was your favorite thing about teaching? I think my favorite thing about teaching was making, I think I mentioned this earlier, making math accessible to people who felt really unsuccessful with it previously. and kind of like this idea of, I'm going to talk very briefly, five minutes, and I'm going to give you everything that you're going to need, and then there's going to be structured in place for people to get what they need. I've got flexible seating.

You can sit with a friend and work with a friend. We can do, you know, groups. I can do a small group up here. Everyone gets what they need. I have an answer key, and if you're ready to check your work, you know, we got the procedures and the protocols in place. You know, my rule was like no pencils over at the answer key. It's only, you literally had a walk with your highlighter up in the air over to the answer key

so I could see that you were about to mark, oh, this is the step where I made a mistake. And then you return back and you work the rest of it out, right? Like just knowing that everyone got the supports that they need, I think that was my favorite thing about teaching because math is super emotional for people, super emotional. So to make it comfortable and to get kids, you know, talking about math or advocacy. for themselves about math, you know, at the beginning of the year, I say, okay, where'd I lose you? Where did I lose you? And they're just completely shut down. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I literally go, okay, make a beeping noise when my hand passes the step where something didn't make

sense. And just having this like preteen, just be like, beep. Like, totally so I'll take it. I'll take it. That is the first step identifying where I lost you, right? Give me something. And then kind of working, you know, my way. But I think, you know, it came up earlier. I started doing this maybe year six or seven in the classroom, having students write a letter to themselves at the beginning of the year. And I made a big ceremony about stuffing it in an envelope and then I put it in a cabinet and there was a chain with a padlock

and they were just going to trust that no one was going to read anything. Right. And around standardized testing time, someone remembers. It just like don'ts because they forget completely. Sure. Are we going to do that? Are we going to look at those? And the kids who did not necessarily feel comfortable or take it as seriously as everyone else at the beginning of the year are bummed at the end of the year that they didn't.

Because it is the most silent my class has ever been. People are just and they're appreciating about themselves. Like you said earlier, Dominique, about the growth. right like seeing and like kind of time traveling you know and I just I didn't do that earlier I wish I'd done it early my year but you know year six or seven I took it on and that was a really fun thing to do and have them kind of appreciate how much they grew up in eighth grade on their way to high school right that's cool that's very cool and and I just I want to backtrack to what you said about the okay I'm I need you to beep when I hit the part where I lost you um

I love that because outside of teaching, I've worked in IT and in the same way that people get completely shut down about math. They get the same way anytime they have a technical problem. And it's just like, I don't know. It's not working. It's not, okay, that doesn't help me. It's calling me an invalid. Yeah. Yeah.

See, that's better than nothing. That's at least, okay, something is invalid. you know yeah um but like i wish somebody when i was working in that arena i wish somebody had given me that example of like okay beep beep when i hit the part where the computer failed like right that's good and i always laugh because i i tell people i left the classroom because teaching math was just i felt like i had to be a counselor as well as a math teacher and like teaching math to teenagers is like really emotional and then i started coaching technology to adults and I was like, that's not any less emotional.

Like, you just poured it straight over. It's a lateral shift. There's no change. Have you dealt with like my frustration at things being banned? Like for me to find things. Yes, if you send me random emails, like I have any power to do about it. And I just read it. I go, hey, Damien, like, I don't know.

Samuel has sent me a random email. And he'd be like, it'll just have some kind of like dry yet flat. lowery language that like is expressive of his current state of emotions and these are the things that are not working and I just I just go I you know I'm like I know he knows I don't work in tech services I know he knows that yeah I'm just having somewhere you'll shout from a cubicle somewhere and they will hear that you know yeah yeah that the school has banned an army pamphlet from 1945 speaking against fascism. Like someone somewhere needs to hear that.

It said fascism on it. Sorry. So there you go. The filter doesn't like it. Because the filters are just that smart. Yeah. And by the way, I love your description of his writing style. Flowery yet dry.

You can see why First and Tall had a problem with it. This is the improvement. Also, we've been doing this. project here for you know as long as we have and yeah i've i've heard your writing yeah so yeah i'm lucky if i understand 50% of what he's up honestly that's still better than i do uh dominie how about you what was your uh favorite thing about teaching um um yeah um i like to see the community building in a classroom. I think I developed in it as like a skill,

like facilitating the process. So also like seeing my own growth in that way, right? When I think about the students and when I was student teaching and my first year of teaching versus my second year of teaching, like did everyone know each other's name? Had they worked in groups together, had they, like, been able to have, like, verbal conversations about content that, like, I didn't have to pull an answer out of raised hands kind of conversation, right? So that's, like, really powerful. And then also, like, learning in my own skill set to, I feel like I was really fortunate to have lots of examples that taught around reading and writing,

but then being able to facilitate speaking and then listening with students learning from each other and then have them like pay attention to themselves doing it is like really, I think really powerful. And I'm like, right, always thinking about how to do more of that and layer that on with like more deep thinking, more evidence-based, right? More curiosity.

And so, yeah, just like all of those things are really fun to me. Nice. That's cool. Ed, I think the next one's yours. Yeah, it is. So I want you to think back and think about what was the hardest day you had teaching in the classroom as a classroom teacher and as a follow-up what did you do the next teaching day after that and I think last time I threw it to Kendra first so Dominique

how about you um I don't really remember a maybe a hardest day but um there was a period I was at a school site and then I left the school site to, let me say that, let me start over. I was at a school site and I got pink slipped and I didn't want to leave, right? And so my principal had the idea of like, hey, what do you think about getting an English credential? Do you want to at least try teaching English for a year? You can try it for a year and then like, you know, I could still state. So I taught English for a year and I hated it. I didn't like that English teachers taught a curriculum that was like prescribed to them as a history social science teacher. Like I had not had that experience. So right, I taught a scope and sequence that like someone

in my department decided on and there were standards. But I could borrow a lesson from the book or I could borrow a lesson from two books ago, right? Or I could download something from a curriculum website, right? So, or my department had created some of its own curriculum. So, like, that can stuff just did not work. And my students hated it. It was so, like, it felt so irrelevant. And then the class was already just, there were ninth graders.

It was, you know, it's a little wild in ninth grade. So I cried. like every day. And then at some point I read a book by Nadia Lopez. I think it's called

I don't know what it's called. I'll look it up. But she talks about it's called Bridge to Brilliance by Nadia Lopez. And she talks about working at a school

and York where lots of students are low income and she has all these challenges and she just kept trying and then she talks about like the things that she did and it was so inspiring which like there's some of it that feels really problematic like Kendra and her she mentioned her TFA Kool-A Kool-Aid like there's some of that charter school energy that like is a little but then also right there are well-meaning teachers everywhere and also like messed up things everywhere that charter school doesn't have a monopoly on that so I um anyway that's what I did all right I had some other times that were maybe not a hard day but just hard periods of like

my department feels ick right and like calling my aunt who's an educator in L.A. like what's a what what what am I supposed to do when you know this thing happens on campus and you know I'm just like in that sometimes having a lens that's like is there is there a racial understanding that like I'm having that my colleagues aren't having right is there an understanding around like class or you know stigma that is not common knowledge and I'm trying to understand like how to broach this because the way that people are talking about children is so bad that I don't want to be here. So, you know, it's not just a bad day. It's this bad year where I don't feel like I'm on the same mission as people that I work

with because they're just like, you know, if the kid doesn't show up the way that I wanted them to show up, I'm not able to teach them. Yeah, that's, I, I, I can, I can, to a certain, I can sympathize certainly with, with feeling, feeling ick in an apartment. I mean, I don't have the, the, the, the, uh, specific experience, but I, I definitely get the, the kind of vibe that you're describing. That sounds awful. The codependent in me is sitting there going, like, am I that colleague that gives other people the ick with, with like, how I regard or how I express my friend? frustrations. So I'm just kind of sitting in that for a minute here, which doesn't make for exciting

audio. So I'll reflect later. Good thinking. Yeah. Ed, what was your worst day or your hardest day teaching? Would you do the next teaching day? Well, I'm actually, I want to hear from Kendra first. Go for it.

And then I can give an example. Well, I'll start by saying, you know, my wonderful entry did recognize that I'm both a laugher and a cryer. So this question is a tough one. And to a certain extent, my body won't let me remember because your tough days aren't necessarily explosive or big. It's a ratcheting every year. and then at some point it breaks it falls apart and by it it's the system but it's you and it's unreasonable expectations and it's the weight of the world and so it's not necessarily i mean i think we've all been in a scenario where there has been catastrophe of some sort in our

classroom. I think the thing that I struggle with the most or what I have come to learn is called, it has a lot of different names, vicarious PTSD, secondary PTSD, PTSD by proxy. These are all chronic sustained conditions, right? So it's not necessarily a hardest day. It's unsurmountable conditions okay yeah um i think there's something very uh very relatable in in when you talk about the ratcheting up aspect of that uh which which handily leads into uh you know kind of my answer on this is at the previous site that I taught at, we had a school culture that was deteriorating while I was there. And every year it got a little bit worse. And every year we had higher rates of incidents between students. We had higher and higher rates of students reporting

that they just did not feel safe on campus. And it culminated for me in the day that we had two fights in very rapid succession that turned into almost riots on campus. And the second one of them started right outside my classroom door. and it is the only time I have I have an awful lot of privilege as a male white teacher in that there is only one time in my career that I have ever felt physically unsafe on campus and I and I attribute that as I said to to privilege because I have I have colleagues who do not have those privileges who have had to deal with so much more of it but And I was very briefly afraid of being dragged down and trampled by a wave of students rushing to try to get a front row view to a violent altercation, like teeth getting knocked out and blood being spilled, altercation between students. and that was simultaneously the moment that radicalized me as a union rep. I had been a union rep. I was a union rep when this happened,

but that was the point at which I was like, no, fuck this. And I turned into a maybe not an enemy, but definitely an antagonist to our site administration, who did not want to do anything to deal with it. And that turned that that was the point at which I branded myself with, you know, the rebel logo like on my chest. It was like, no, no, fuck this. And so, yeah, it was a, it was that same, that same sense that you describe of things consistently getting worse and consistently getting worse for the students and for us. and yeah

I just a hundred percent under the wheels yeah so what about you Damien so you remember

Parkland and I know it might be hard to remember because we've had so many yeah that was the one

in Florida and we've gotten a few activists out of it names that I've largely forgotten because we've had

so many but the parkland shooting spawned a whole bunch of copycat hoaxes and a few copycats and we had an eighth grade visitation day uh this was this would have been march i want to say march 17 maybe march yeah i think it's march 17 of 2017 um and we had an eighth grade visitation day and we went into lockdown uh and the lockdown was a live shooter threat. Now, it was, there was not one. So I will say that up front, but it was enough that it was a lockdown. So I've got parents who obviously they know what's

best. And I've got eighth graders who are brand new to this campus. And I've got my students. And so we go on lockdown and I'm like, okay. And so I immediately start texting. I had a really good admin relationship back then um and i immediately start texting what what you know hey what's what's the skinny here so that i know so that i can couch things in a way that calms people and it was basically like uh we think it's nothing but we have to be cautious because of what happened and then there was another uh thing and it was a bomb threat at the same time and it was we need to evacuate okay but have we solve the live shooter threat thing no where are we going don't know yet and it was we had to get off campus so now i'm shepherding and it's one of those like a crisis what do they say

adversity doesn't build character reveals character that's some people say that i don't know if i agree with them all the time but i was able to see in real time how people handled a crisis um and so i was like okay let's go likely nothing all's the same to be safe we need to go out here and I'm directing traffic and blah, blah, blah. We got parents flying down the street in their cars trying to get their kids, damn near running over. Other people's kids. The media is there, and they're stopping kids and interviewing them,

and there's no plan for where to go. And I'm just like, and I see one of my kids coming toward me, and I'm like, are you okay? And she just starts breaking down crying. I'm like, all right, come here. We're walking. And so I'm hugging her and holding her and moving forward. And so I'm like, all right, we're going to invade the Elks Lodge.

Let's go. And so we head to the Elks Lodge. And I think other people had said the same. I'm not this one leader. I'm not taking them through Sinai. But we go to the Elks Lodge and they don't want us there. And I'm just starting to organize triage and stuff like that. And I've got a very nice loud voice.

Parents are understandably upset because they're scared. And they're coming in there talking to our students who are doing their, like our student leaders who are doing their very best. to manage what's going on, but they basically can just run back and forth in a panic. And the parents are getting more and more angry. And then one of the teachers, he's explaining why it's not the teacher's faults. And I'm just like, okay, you know what? They need you in there. Can you go organize EpiPens?

Ma'am, talk to me. You kids, you did a great job, blah, blah, blah. She yells at me and yells at me and yells at me. I'm like, that's okay. I totally. And it's just like, oh, she needs to yell. Okay, cool. I teach high school.

I can deal with this. And so the whole day was just they didn't clear the entire building, so half the teachers couldn't get to their cars. And I'm going to assume good faith, which I don't normally do with that particular department of police. But I'm going to assume that they were doing their job the best way they knew how. And so half of us couldn't find a place to be. Everybody had scattered. There was no anything. There's no plan or anything.

Because how do you plan for that, you know, until you've had it? And then you're like, oh, we should plan for that. And so at one point, superintendent, this is back when he still had a bit of polish on him and was not a thoroughly detestable human being. And he came down and he kind of like was taking charge. And he's like, well, what do people need? And I'm like, it is raining and it's about to be very sunny. So we're going from drenched to getting burned. We need shelter and we need water and we need food.

so he sent some people off to Nugget to buy way too much food for people which was great and then it's like well where do we go I said on this road there's eight churches pick one well what if they don't let us in and I said Ed you're going to love this I claim sanctuary yes and so we ended up in a in a Presbyterian church like you do it was awful the whole thing was was awful that was like the week that we were doing Caesar Week like We had this big thing in my Latin program where, like, I mean, we had left out. We had food that kids had brought for a buffet. We were going to have this incredible party during, you know, during lunch and all this kind of stuff. So that was terrible in all the ways. What I did the next day was, it was Saturday, because that was on a Friday. It was Saturday. I called up my admin.

I called up my union president. And I said, we need to make the kids feel at home and safe because I know. that they're going to have us coming back on Monday. We need to organize hot cocoa at every single entrance of this campus. And it took all weekend for me to get things lined up. These people talk to these people, talk to those people. I said, we need an SCTA representative and a district representative at every entrance. We need admin and teachers along with them at the main entrances.

I want the whole place to smell like hot cocoa because hot cocoa, means safety. And that's what I did the next day is I went into that. And so I didn't relax at all that weekend. And the Monday we came back, there was hot cocoa for everyone. And it was, I took charge of what I could and took care of who I could and made sure to direct people who seemed like they needed direction. And then I was about like, okay, let's make this. Because what didn't happen was that there wasn't a bomb. What didn't happen was there wasn't a shooter. These were things that we drilled for that that that we were threatened with that did not occur. And so that's a really important thing to recognize. Like it could have been so much worse. And I don't want that to be

a comfort to anybody. But at the same time, we get to come back. We get to come back and have Coco now. You know, and so that was that was what I did the next day. I think later that week I got sick. But of course, this is pre-COVID. So I kept coming to work because that's what you do. So, but yeah, that was awful. Thanks for that. So what, Dominique, let's start with you. What drove you as a teacher? I was really driven to think about the importance of literacy of all kinds. But of course, like starting with reading, writing, speaking and listening, and then just like critical analysis and taking the content that we're given and then layering that with, hey, can you do it when you're presented with new information,

do you understand it? Do you know how to like break it down so that you can understand it? And then just seeing like how that makes young people feel good when they figure it out, like that's really, yeah, that's really big. I think also when I was in the pre-rex for teaching and I had to do like lesson plans and I was thinking about the kind of lesson plans that I chose, they were very much like ones that made me proud. So I also just think about like, what does it look like to study history that feels relatable or where you see it as like a mirror of yourself or your community? And like, if you can do that and also do the literacy thing, then like, does that make you feel smarter?

Does it make you feel more capable? And if you feel more smart, if you feel smarter and more capable, like, do you believe that you can learn more things, that you can do hard things, that you can make? things happen right so like that kind of scaffolding to the intellectual like self-efficacy empowerment is like really fun especially 14 15 16 year olds and it's their first time at it sometimes like in there yeah that's it's it's it's endearing too isn't it it's like they're like a baby deer on ice at first and then pretty soon they're loping through the fields. I like, I like that. So, cool. Kendra, how about you? What, what drove you as a teacher?

I think there was a couple different things. I don't know if you all are familiar with a protocol called Estimation 180. It is a math protocol in which you give just a general life scenario and you ask students to make a reasonable estimation of the answer. And I, realized that my students were really lacking the ability to make a reasonable estimation. And that's like, that's a huge life skill, right? That is, that is a critical, that's like critical thinking in its most general form, right? And in the math class, that means like if I get an answer, is my answer reasonable? Like, just generally, if I work out a problem, can I flag for myself that like something has gone

a rye because it doesn't make sense, right? So from a life skills perspective, there was a lot of work to do if we are making estimations that are just wildly preposterous, right? And then what also drove me was, we know that math is the reason why kids are not graduating. It is a math class issue. It is a math one. It's an integrated math one issue in particular. Really? Yeah. Oh, it is by far the most failed class in our district. Oh, wow.

And if you fail integrated math one as a freshman and you have to repeat it as a sophomore, and you need to get two years of math to graduate, now we move it into math two as a junior. What happens if I fail math two as a junior, which can happen, right? Yeah. And so I felt a very deep sense of personal responsibility for getting my students to a point where when they got into that math one classroom and that teacher has differentiation that spans the entirety of the K-12 system right in one class right yeah I need to get my students to a point where they will be able to access what that teacher is teaching so that

they can pass math one and they can graduate because I mean not graduating is such an issue right So, you know, I took a lot of pride when the math department at our high school, where our students went for high school, could tell who had been in my class, right? That was a big source of pride and that meant a lot. That is what drove me because just like we expect kids to leave sixth grade and all of a sudden go into seventh grade and do six classes and have six teachers with six personalities and six sets of expectations and all. of these things we expect our eighth graders to go to high school and grades matter and you know the it's a semester it's a semester everything seems so far away when you're on the semester system right as a teacher you know being on the quarter system is hard because you're either doing progress reports or you're doing report cards all the time right it's just but when you're a kid a semester's

like oh I'll take care of it oh I'll take care of it yeah all take it right and so like the just we expect so much out of that transition as well. That helped drive me to try and get them to a point where they could be successful right at the gate as ninth graders. Yeah, I made the analogy once that when we switched our math up, we were basically taking a cannon firing babies out of it at a brick wall 12 feet away in the hopes that some of them would become pole vaulters. and it's, I mean, theoretically possible, but it's going to be really messy. And it's, I'm kidding, shocked and shaking faces.

I can only assume this means that the analogy holds. All right. Yeah, a unique gift for metaphor you have, sir. That's very vivid. Well, it's supposed to be. But, yeah, like, I have a friend who is actually leaving the high school. and going to the elementary level. And I'm like, how, why are you crazy, et cetera,

all the things that I think. And he says, there's only so far behind a fifth grader can be. As a math teacher. Like, I'm like, oh. And, and, yeah, yeah. Like he's, and as Kendra was saying,

he differentiates across the board, right? Like, you've got kids. it don't know division yet as ninth and tenth graders and he's supposed to get them ready for math two it's like good heavens and we don't meet kids where we're at where they're at and that's i think that to me that's where that metaphor really holds up is we don't meet kids where they're at we just keep shooting them into the same thing that doesn't work you know there was a time that math i'm before math one, we kind of did a pre-algebra, algebra, geometry, algebra two, trig, calculus, right, track.

But in LAUSD, when I was in high school, that first algebra year could be algebra one, A, for the fall semester, and one B for the spring semester, but at some, schools they had one a one and it was a year yeah of half of algebra and the other year was half of the second half of algebra so for remediation instead of like teachers having to differentiate every single lesson every single day like why are why are we not just slowing down the math one track where that one semester is stretched over a year and then the next semester is stretched over a year. Like, we're doing it wrong, right?

My son's school pilots that exact thing. They're on a 4x4 too. So he did math 1A this semester, math 1B, or math 1A first semester, math one B second semester. Now he only gets 10 math credits or five, yeah, 10 math credits. Five math credits. I know what you're getting. And then he gets elective credits, which fine.

Yeah, my understanding is that it's a credits issue because that's something that we've, definitely tried to push. Yeah, but, oh, my God, it works for hands. But it, why not get five credits the first time instead of failing, trying to get five credits repeatedly? Yeah. And then also, like, if, because they're so, they're so far behind, like, one, actually

reteaching the skills and closing the gaps, which sets them up to be eligible to take more years of math in the long run like switching a whole year doing a whole two years completing math one and then getting to math two and then sticking through math three is like

so much better for HG prep than not being math eligible in the first place and then also bombing your GPA and then also like feeling like I'm going to do the bare

minimum and just take two years of math because I hate math and have a terrible relationship with this subject. And now that I've met the bare minimum graduation requirement, I'm not going to even try to go to see a or UC track. So yeah, we're definitely doing it wrong. Yeah. No, it's now you see what I'm saying about we think there's going to be a pole vaulter. Like see, see my metaphor holds. And that's really the point of this podcast. Yeah. I also want to highlight that in California in particular with so many English. English learners. We're not just talking about differentiating K-12. And that's it. We're also talking about like, I have students who can absolutely do division. They do it from right to left. You know what I

mean? They do another language. And I don't have enough. There was one year that I had, I was giving my instruction in English. And then I had a Syrian student who took it from English into Arabic and another student who took that Arabic and turned it into and translated it into Pashto and then I had a student who took it from Pashto into Russian and I have no idea if the student at the end of that chain got accurate math instruction right in California we don't we do not give teachers enough resources yeah you help with that right yeah of course integrated ELD and designated ELD aside right yeah when it gets into you know high school and the pressure to graduate we know that it is very hard to get an

IEP when you are in high school if you don't already have one we know it is very hard to reclassify in high school there is a push to get all of that done by the end of middle school it is very very difficult yeah yeah um and and and uh Kendra as the as the other you know middle school person here. I feel like you may, may share or understand this sentiment I'm about to share. I know part of my frustration,

specifically as a middle school teacher, is the feeling like, you know, as Dominic mentioned, you know, we're sitting in, or one of you mentioned, we were sending them in high school and all of a sudden grades matter. And the feeling, like the kids know we're in middle school our grades don't matter you know we're going to get

we're going to get moved on we're going to get pushed on and and the frustration involved in that in that like i know i have multiple students in my class who are going to be going on to the eighth grade next year who have not done anything in my class this year because they they have whatever other issues they've got going on outside of my classroom that I can't do anything about, but that has sapped their energy, their motivation, their whatever

and they're going to be moving on to eighth grade and they're going to be in the same boat and then they're going to move on to high school and you know, we're sending them on without them being prepared

and we're not just sending them on without being prepared at we're mal-prearing them like yeah well honestly what would what would be the damage of y'all not doing grades in middle school because it sounds like doing grades in middle school is doing damage yeah well yeah i mean not not doing grades is one is one solution i you know um i i feel like there are some cases in which if a kid is three years behind in their reading level, they need to get those skills before we move them on anywhere, you know. Right.

If they're, like, if they're in my class in the seventh grade and they're still reading at the third grade level, you know, I can't, I can't teach him anything. Right. Like the book, the book I'm supposed to be teaching them from is, is two. That gap is just going to widen. That gap, that gap is already almost insurmountable. And it's only going to get worse. and you know something you know something in the system has to change to to help them to provide the remediation to provide the support I don't know what so that you know those really basic skills are at a place well currently where they're where it's possible for them to succeed currently the grades aren't being used as a communication tool no because we're just moving

the meat yeah so they're being used elsewise yeah and they're normalizing that grids don't matter like that's super awesome yeah dope yeah i um i want to i want to push back on the remediation piece and then also um like you know kind of complicate some of it um I think on one hand, the thought that I'm having is I don't know that students have to be remediated based on their reading levels because it doesn't mean that they can't learn the thing in the text. And the example that I'm playing out is a student reads at a fifth grade reading level, but they're in my ninth grade ethnic studies class. I'm going to read out loud. I'm still going to teach like explicit strategies. And I still know that even a fifth grader can find evidence, introduce a quotation, right, make a citation.

And like, even if they're not reading independently, they're still ready to access the content knowledge, right? So the, right, whether that's learning about the Renaissance, right? because even a fifth grader could learn about the Renaissance and learn about colonialism and Great Britain and its famines, et cetera, right? But what I'm trying to do is like get them at the content level that is at their age group and also still close those gaps, right? And then I think the other issue was like with grading, grading is this weird thing that isn't saying there was a skill that I wanted you to learn. and here's where you are in moving toward that skill development and demonstrating that you have that skill, right? Like our grading is like, did you walk in the way that I wanted you to walk in? Did you have the school supplies that I arbitrarily chose for you?

Did you have a binder that was neat and tidy? Did you answer the questions the way that I wanted you to answer them? did you memorize these things and like right with history are we trying to help students like memorize dates and events or are we also trying to help them understand like how these dates and events are related to each other right how they have themes how they have like ethical dimensions how there's continuity and how there's change right like those are some of those critical skills that we want them to have. And we do want to keep them moving,

but we're also going to be really real about, like, closing the gap at whatever level. So I don't know. Like maybe we do need the part elective, part. Part credit. Credit. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you think that shifts? Because Ed, I think, was referencing in his ELA class. Do you think that shifts when it goes from content to skills-based course because, and I'm not saying that those are mutually exclusive categories, but I do know that, like, when I taught language, it was skill-based, and I could use the grades much more as a tool that way, whereas if it's content-based, there's all sorts of arbitrariness that filters into that, which is, I mean, I've shifted my content-based class into a skill-based class because I just use the content as a vehicle to develop the skill, right? which I think is better. But do you think that that shifts in terms of what remediation could and couldn't do? Hmm.

And Kendra, feel free to weigh in on this too because you taught a skill-based class. I mean, you know, math is as skill-based as it gets right up there with a world language. What's the other phrase that you're using besides skill-based class content-based content-based yeah and so math is not content-based to my knowledge no and having talked with my mathematician friends no it's it's much more of developing complexity through uh of skill uh and that's the higher and higher aspects of math

I'll be on that. Okay, yeah. And it's okay that we don't have an answer right now. I mean, we could certainly, you know, figure that out as we go. I've got other depressing questions to ask. I mean, it feels like math, skill, and content. Is there content to math? Overlap, right?

Like, content of math is PIMDAS. Like, you got to know PEMDAS, as much. you have to know how to use PIMDAS, right? So like PIMDAQ is the content. The Pythagorean theorem is the content. The quadratic formula is the content. You got to know it. And then you got to be able to apply it.

And then you got to be able to apply it in context. Right? And you want to be able to project with it. And then you got to layer those skills together where you're projecting, you're using probability, and you're using, right, formulate math so it's about i can see that but yeah i think i think that's a good that's a good um analogies isn't the right word but that's that's a good that's a good that's a good breakdown i think could it be that i have a way to define that i maybe i'm maybe it would be more useful if i i spoke

of it as a spectrum then math is very far over and again kendra feel free to to shut me down on this, math seems to be a very far over toward the skill end of the content skill spectrum, because while Dominique, I don't disagree that, you know, Pemdas and Pythagoras and stuff like that, those are content if you speak of that as a body of knowledge, but the application and use of it is largely the point of math classes. Help me out here. Correct me. So I would think in the traditional sense that solving an equation is a skill, right?

Isolate the variable X equals three. Sure. Maybe you do a plug it back in and check your answer kind of thing, check stuff or what it's called. I think there's something we said for like taking a step back and understanding what the equal sign means. What does X equals three mean? what do you mean x equals three x is equivalent so everywhere i see an x that's actually a three like that is a much bigger concept that will span multiple grade levels um a system of equations right is going to be two equations that have an intersection point and you know i can find the x y pair

of where they intersect and i can move on right i can solve it be done with it but there's a huge application to that, especially in the real world. It doesn't have to be two linear equations. One can be linear. One can be exponential, which is the difference between eighth grade and math one. And then, of course, logarithmic, it compounds. So like what is a system as a, why is the, you know, the point three to the answer. What does that mean? It's the answer. And that goes back to what an equal sign means. So I think it really depends on how something is taught. You know, there are skills. And aside from the content standards by grade level, there are the standards of math practice, which we call the SMPs. And there's something similar in science and something similar in ELA, which is, you know, where we get this Venn diagram that leads to claim evidence and reasoning.

It's kind of what all three have in common. So the standards of math practice are things like construct viable arguments. And those are pretty explicitly skills. Right. their skills for encountering an unknown situation, whereas the math standards, I would consider content standards. Interesting. Because those to me sound like learning terms in the same way that learning vocabulary is learning

terms, but then the content would be, you know, explaining the war of 1812 or, you know, something like that. That's not just so you have your list of terms that you got to learn. and then we get into the actual narrative of what happened and then analyzing that narrative and looking at those different things and looking at all those different things that's where the skills come in

that's where the fun stuff is in the history at least to me although Dominique based on what you've said it's fun for you as well where they get to look at it from different angles and different lenses and see who's being represented what model are we using to understand this

and so on and so forth those are the cool skill things but the content is usually the narrative of what things they need to know who was in charge here who did that um which is different than setting the terms of what is a dragoon what is a platoon what is a pontoon i'm just trying to come up with more words that end in un um but uh those those would be like setting terms uh in my mind but it could be that i'm also just trying to fit all the square pegs into round holes because my understanding

is very limited, which is fair. All right. At this point, we need to take a break. We recorded so much content that we need to split this into two. Yeah. Imagine that

you give people who've worked in education and an opportunity to talk about their experiences. And just like happened with the last set of interviews we did, we wound up with more content than we can fit into a single episode. So, you know, as problems go, there are much worse ones. Indeed, indeed. So this is the end of episode one of the ones who left. Yes.

And then next week you will hear the second half of this. So episode two of the ones who left. left. So, let's see. You don't want to be found. Where can they find us? We collectively can be found on the Apple podcast app, on the Amazon podcast app, and on Spotify. And of course, there is our website at wabwabwabwabwab.

wab.com. Anywhere that you have found us, please take the time to give us the five-star review you know our guests deserve. and be sure to hit the subscribe button. And where can you be found, sir? Well, you can find me at the Comedy Spot in Sacramento, 9 p.m. on the first Friday of every month. I'm assuming that you missed the August 1st show. So come and check out the September 5th show, the October 3rd show, the November 7th show, or the December 5th show.

All of those will be at 9 p.m. at the Comedy Spot in Sacramento. Go to sackcom.com, and you can find your tickets there. just go to the calendar section and find our show. Get your tickets early. We tend to sell out, so please come on down, support local comedy if you can. Come on down, support my compulsion if you can, because it's not going away. That's capital punishment at Sacramento Comedy Spot. So, for A Geek History of Time, I'm Damien Harmony.

And I'm Ed Blaylock, and until next time, keep rolling 20s.