A Geek History of Time - Episode 342 - Interview with Author and Comedian Johnny Taylor About His Book, Wrestling Watchlist

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

I mean, it is 2 o'clock in the fucking morning where I am. The 1848ers were so much more radical than what we're comfortable or familiar with. The layer, the layer of sarcasm involved in that entire delivery is, it's bonded. It's not even, yeah, it's not even frosting. But he failed, so fuck them, buddies. Now, after World War II ended. Lockley started mapping out foot trails for the newly created

Oh God, Pembrokeshire So Pembrokeshire Okay, Pembrokeshire God Just please let me just Relathe all day We're way into the 19th century now I'm sorry

Well Damien It's 3 o'clock in the fucking morning Thank you. This is a geek history of time. Where we connect Nurgary to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock. I'm a world history teacher here in Northern California. And last week,

My wife headed off on a trip down to Southern California to go to her 30-year high school reunion. I had to stay home and do my homework. And she wound up, one of her best friends, her bestest friend, works at Disneyland in a management capacity. And there is a store that Disneyland employees can go to to get stuff that's essentially being overstocked. and I may or may not have to hire a divorce lawyer because my wife saw a lightsaber on sale for $75 and her best friend pointed to it and said you know Ed would probably like that and she said no he doesn't need another lightsaber nobody in our house needs another lightsaber oh I am so sorry you guys are at the 10 year mark though

that's as i understand it that's how marriage is end yeah it's been it's been a good run yeah um i'm gonna be really sad uh to say goodbye but like she doesn't love me anymore clearly clearly yeah yeah yeah yeah and and i made that joke to her and she was like oh come on it's like yeah well you know i have to now now you're minimizing it that doesn't make it better yeah yeah i you know had i had i not been as heartbroken as I was. I might have been able to think of that, but... You're going to turn into Buffalo, Bill. You're like, you don't know what pain is.

Yes. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. So I missed out on that opportunity to add to my collection. How about you? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I'm a U.S. history teacher up here in Northern California at the high school level. My daughter got to sit in on my curse of strad game that I don't run, that my

my friend runs and she got to watch the whole thing and of course there were the constant references that people made they're like is he like this all the time she's like oh he's censored right now and and like her timing is worse than this oh god her timing is fantastic she doesn't do the hack thing like her jokes are well thought out and she roasts me so good in front of them it was i was so proud it was it was fantastic so yeah yeah you you have you have honed your daughter into a, into a razor sharp, uh, comedic weapon that you have oddly enough pointed entirely at yourself. Yeah, that's where it's funniest. Okay. It means doing it, baby. All right. Got to get it to college somehow. Hey, okay, fair. Yeah. All right. So, uh, this week, we actually, um, you know,

we've been doing a lot of guests lately and it's mostly, uh, because I keep finding more experts who now that we've gotten more than 300 episodes under our belt, they're like, yeah, okay, okay. Now you've proven yourself. Right. So this week, we actually have a comedian who is also an author and a podcaster, has a number of albums out. Johnny Taylor is a nationally touring comedian with multiple albums out. He is the host of the AEW Some podcast, which is the awesome podcast, which has almost 200 episodes

unto itself. It releases twice weekly. He opened for Mick Foley. when McFoley did his stage show. He's the author of the wrestling watch list, a book that you can get at all the places that they sell cool books. And most importantly, of course, above all else,

he also guested with us on episode 78 where we talked about A Quiet Place. So I saved the best credit for last. Johnny Taylor, friend of the show, welcome aboard, sir. It's good to be here. Thanks for having me. It's good to be back.

Yes, yes. no i'm stoked to uh talk some grabs and uh whatever else we get into yeah no it'll be nice not to have the uh all the work that i do just torn apart but you going but what if they farted yeah exactly yeah that's what i'm here for yeah yeah yeah i missed that part so uh so johnny uh you you you have a podcast about wrestling you've opened for one of my favorite wrestlers of all time um you you have a book about wrestling the wrestling watch list when did you first become a fan of professional wrestling dude it was probably 1984 85 i was seven or eight yeah and uh i remember the first match i ever saw or at least remember saying was terry funk uh wrestling some jober

and him coming out and after he beat him he he hit him with a branding iron right and i was like I don't know what the fuck this is but that guy just like I remember asking my dad I'm like what do you just do them? It's like oh that's a branding I heard that you know they they do with cattle's to mark them and I was like this is the best thing I've ever seen in my life

a man just branded another man oh man so that was when I was kind of hooked and then I just started watching the weekly shows and I remember watching I didn't get to see WrestleMania one but I I remember we got WrestleMania 2. We went and saw a closed circuit at Arco Arena. Holy shit.

Yeah, it was like, I think it was 86. That was 86, yeah. It was just, I was like, it was Bundy and Hogan and a still cage. And I was like, dude, this is, this is my thing. Like, I found it. I've discovered it. Wow. Any other matches from Mania 2 that you remembered or did you just mostly stick to it?

Oh, man, let's think here. I think I remember I think Don Morocco Might have taken on He might have taken on junkyard dog At WrestleMania 2 I thought he took on Mr. Wonderful Oh, he did

Yeah, because you remember Wonderful did the The slanty eyes slur against Yeah, of course Why? Because it was not because of 1986 Yeah Consider the era Yeah But it was weird because they had it

You know they did it in three different locations They did it in New York and Los Angeles and in Chicago. Yep. And, you know, come to find out years later, that almost ended the WWF at the time because it cost so much money. And it wasn't as huge a hit as you thought it was going to be. Right. So the fact that WrestleMania 3 was pretty much make or break for the whole company. And it did well.

Yeah. Yeah. That was in Detroit. Yeah, Detroit at the Silver Dam. Yeah. Yeah, I remember WrestleMania, too, because you had the 20 man over the top battle royal. And they had football players in there. Yeah.

Refrigerator Perry was in there. A guy from the Niners, Russ Francis, I want to show. Yeah, Russ Francis. Yeah. That's so funny. I forgot about Russ Francis. God damn. That guy could have made the transition, too.

But Andre was in it. And the very last man he, he eliminated was actually hitman Hart. Yep. And he just threw him down and over all the, you know, and remember, coming off the top rope was illegal. Yeah. And so, and throwing a man over the top rope was illegal, except in a battle royal. Yeah. And he just threw him down to Jim Knighthart.

It was fucking crazy. Yeah. I mean, in a way, that was kind of like one of the early signs. that they really believed in Brett was having him as like the last man eliminated from that battle royal well and he went to Andre specifically and said like hey can we do

something here because and Andre was like yeah because Andre respected his dad and so he's like yeah yeah what do you have in mind and Brett always had something in the pocket so that's that was the spot that he called so yeah it's back when Andre

still wore just just the shorts yeah just the Yeah, just the blue trunks. Yeah. Before he had his weird one-arm singlet, the black singlet that he kind of went out with. Yeah. Damn, WrestleMania, too. And so what was it like in Arco Arena for that?

It was cool. You know, I was just a little kid. So it was the first time I ever did anything like super, like with a mass of people. You know, I'd never been to like a sporting event at that point. And so I just remember just being kind of overwhelmed, you know. But I remember my dad just being like, all right, like, you know, we're going to watch the screen. Because I remember when we went, I thought we were going to it. I was like, oh, we're going to WrestleMania too.

And I was like, I don't see. There's not even a ring. There's the big ass screen. But it was fun, dude. But WrestleMania 3 was the one where I was just like completely engaged and complete fan at that point. I watched all the lead up. So I, you know, I was super locked into all the storylines that were happening with, you know, Hogan and Andre and Savage and Steamboat. Dangerous Danny Davis.

Oh, my God, with the British Bulldog. Kind of the whole thing was just, it was so fun, you know. You know, I got to say the difference between WrestleMania is one and two were not that big a difference in terms of like the presentation. And then three, it really truly felt like. like they got an update to Microsoft paint and now the colors all came out in bold right right like three felt bold and I think it was helped by the fact that the Pontiac's uh Silver Dome uh it lets the natural light in during the day right and so you have the Can Am connection yeah R-IB Tom's Inc um but actually I don't know if he's dead but uh he could be yeah his career sure was after that long enough since then that yeah yeah but uh But the Can-Am connection against Morocco and Cowboy Bob Barton, it was all in color, you know? And then, like, even as it got darker and you saw the killer bees come out, they still did a great job lighting everything so that everything just felt like the colors were more bold and vibrant. Yeah, you had a little person match in there.

Yeah. How weird was it for Bundy to go from the main event of WrestleMania 2 to then he's taking on like a mixed tactic? match with little people hillbilly gym i think was involved in that too yeah it was a Tokyo kid lord little brook um oh god little beaver and i want to say the Haiti kid yeah the the legendary lord little brook yes but yeah go ahead i just was your dad also a wrestling fan or was this something that like you you happened upon it on TV and and clearly it was something that you were into and so this all happened my dad was a very casual fan you know where he he would be like if it was on he'd watch it the same thing with roller derby you know he would watch it if it was

on did he like rock and maybe he maybe skip away from it but uh he saw how into it I was it was like oh man kid loves wrestling so you know we kind of leaned in did you guys it was fun did you guys watch rock and roller games when it came out uh i don't i don't know what the name of it was but i just remember like uh roller derby i didn't get as much into but looking back how crazy is that to do that on roller skates like they were doing a worked a worked sporting event on roller skates that was super violent and it's just like at speed cheers to them the one that i saw because i lived in florida for a bit

so this this i think it only came out for one season but it like took from the history of actual roller derby and they had an alligator pit in the middle with actual gators that is the most florida thing but i think it was actually like on syndicated channel so i don't think it was local but it was called rock and roller games and you had six teams And it was, it was fucking bonkers. If I find a trailer for it, I'll pause it to show you guys. But I have to watch this. Oh, my God.

It was, it was a beautiful, beautiful thing. I'm going to pause this just so we can get that out of our system. So that's rock and roller games. The 80s were a weird fucking time. But did you notice how everything was similarly colored to wrestling, too? Oh, well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a similar vibe.

Yeah. I'd say it's taking everything that professional wrestling was doing at the time, cranking it up to about 15. Yeah. Like, you know. Well, and Derby has a long history in America, too. Well, yeah. So. What's funny is every time I've met anybody who's been involved in Roller Derby, it's been predominantly female.

Yes. And that's a lot of jacked up dudes. Yeah, well, so they had women on their teams, too. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that, but like, I was not expecting it to be co-ed. Gotcha. Yeah. So that took me a little by surprise.

And also the aesthetic of the whole thing, yes, clearly, borrowing from professional wrestling. But I also definitely saw the influence of the running man there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I buy that for a dollar. Yeah, Robocop 2, yeah. And I kind of feel like somebody should have said to the producers, you understand that was supposed to be a cautionary tale, right?

Like, right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know. Very American gladiators. Intensely.

Yeah. Yes. Just fewer pugil sticks. Yeah. What year does that come out? American gladiators? No. Rock and roller games.

That was, I think their full season was 89. And it might have bled into 90 But it was short-lived It really was Yeah, I'm I missed I miss that That is I'm gonna have to take a deep dive Down the rabbit hole Nice

Yeah you know When you say that about it being 89 into 90 Uh-huh And maybe part of the reason it didn't last longer Was because they may have been on the tail end Of that 80s Neon You know primary colors

Aesthetic schick and like they were unable to evolve unlike wrestling and yeah wrestling yeah wrestling moved into the extreme you know messaging and and you know went to neon colors you know the palette the change of the color palette that we've talked about before yeah yeah it went from bold to neon and then yeah on to everything's red and black yeah are you telling me Nirvana killed roller games too they killed they killed they killed they killed The hair metal and they killed rock and roller games. They're such liars. They say come as you are, but they don't want you. No, unless you're in, you know, flannel and torn up jeans. Oh, God, to have a grunge, to have a Raven-style squad of roller derby is. Oh, shit.

That is an untapping market. Yeah. See, I would watch that. Yeah. I am, I am unafraid to admit that I would watch that. See, punk rock roller derby would just be guys running around with like one skate. Or right They're skateboarding

Yeah Or yeah Skateboards or Steal to skate off of each other Yeah Yeah Yeah there'd be a lot of duct tape Involved I feel like

Yeah All right so back to Johnny And wrestling That was a hell of a segue Wouldn't Sorry I had to get that in there Yeah I understand Core memory

Okay so your dad takes you to Arco You watch WrestleMania 2 You see George Animal Steel Lose to Savage Oh yeah that whole storyline blew my mind it was so good yeah with uh george animal still and i still look at him as he was the hill in that situation he was trying to steal another man's girl literally and he was kidnapping her basically holding her presumably against her will yeah but uh i'm like why is why i were

even at a young age being like why is savage the bad guy here i don't yeah He's just defending his lady. He did treat Elizabeth, like, dog shit. Oh, he did. He did. But, yeah, I loved how he would, like, stop the match, get out, and tell her to stand on this side of the steps. Oh, yeah, the whole thing. Just those little things, like his.

Yeah, very nuanced. Yes. Okay, so you saw Mania 3. You were hooked. Which match was your favorite of that? Well, as a savage mark from way back. Savage and Steamboat Which is a classic

To this day is such a masterpiece And the Hogan and Andre For just the big match vibe It was the first match that ever felt Like as huge as a big boxing match to me Where I was like Dude Hogan And they were talking about on the Tonight Show

Yeah Like there was news stories about it And you know Total K Fabe with Andre and Hogan never wrestled before which was complete bullshit it was so easy to verify even then you know that they had wrestled so many times prior to that but uh you know just they worked they cooked that storyline up and it felt so big uh but from a match standpoint i mean savage and and uh and steamboat

unquestionably the the main attraction even back then i was like oh this is the one so i'm you You know, you know me. I'm my favorite guy's Brett Hart. But I actually, my favorite match on that card, if you set aside Savage and Steamboat, because it's, that's, that is obviously the best match on the card. Right. I think my favorite after that is actually the Dream Team versus the Rugeot's. Well, yeah, it was a fantastic match. Uh, you know, beef cake can't work at all, but he was a hell of a character. Yes. You know what I mean? Uh, and Valentine, from a technical standpoint, aside from looking identical to the girl I lost my virginity too.

Greg the Hever-Valentine could really go, you know, and they had that in common. Exactly, exactly. But I think it was the only time that I remember the Rougeau as being the good guys, too. Yeah, and it's crazy to think of the tag team division then

in comparison to where the tag team division in the WW is now, which we could go really in the weeds with that. But, man, tag teams meant something back then. And it's almost like kind of a lost art. And that's one thing I love about AEW is they value tag team wrestling so much. Yeah, I let's see, I'm trying to think of who their main tag teams are right now. yeah

AWWs right now I mean you got Private Party was the champs for a long time But they got FTR over there Yeah yeah They got the Young Bucks They've got the Hurt Syndicate With Bobby Lashley and Shelton Benjamin

I mean The tag team division is a major part of storyline Over there right now they're in the middle Of this really great tag tournament So Nice Yeah I'm sorry I just

I have to cut in the Hurt Syndicate. Yeah, they were the Hurt business in WWA, but now they're the Hurt Syndicate over there. I cannot tell you how much I love that. Oh, yeah. That is peak right there. The Hurt Syndicate. I love it.

And honestly, they are, by the way, I put a picture of Greg Valentine into the chat for you, there, Ed. Okay, thank you. Yep, that's her. Yeah. That's the one. and they always said it took him 10 to 15 minutes to really get going too so yeah yeah i mean

poor poor poor girl if the highly unlikely chance that she's listening to this yeah you're a wonderful person but you did and still do look like regna hammered valent so um so the hurt syndicate you said is bobby lashley and uh sheldon How is that not an updated version of the Heart Foundation? You've got a really strong guy and a really technical guy. Yeah, I mean, that's awesome. It kind of is. It's funny because in wrestling, one of the major things you have to like suspend your disbelief for is when two people like Shelton Benjamin and Bobby Lashley, who are both huge jacked athletic dudes that have his.

histories of fighting in mixed martial arts. Right. Sometimes you have to pretend they're going to lose to like two skinny white kids, you know, being the young bucks. So it's just like, you're like, oh,

I don't, this is, this doesn't make a lot of sense. But that's the beauty of wrestling, you know. Yeah. It's, what do you call it,

Ed? Comedia del Arte. Yeah, that was exactly where I was going with. It's Comedia del Arte. The tropes and the, and the story arc. Yeah.

or you know everybody in the audience knows it but everybody buys in yeah yeah and i just tossed a a picture of the hurt syndicate in for you too so you can see thank you exactly what we're talking about these guys are just huge holy jane in it my god yeah yeah yeah who's gonna beat those guys yeah not two guys who super kick 12 right there's no super kick party in the world world that is going to beat those guys and you say they have backgrounds in mixed martial arts too yeah i mean sheldon benjamin is like a decorated uh amateur wrestler yep was an alternate on the olympic team like both guys are just legitimately get yeah bobby lashly uh he actually fought bob sap at one point yeah he's the bobs in i think louisiana yeah but bobby lashly he's done m m m a several times yeah

yeah um just insane like yeah they're supposed to lose to you know the young bucks who weigh as much as i do right i know it's oh it's whatever that yeah whatever that fancy word has said yeah committee del arte also suspension of disbelief which you mentioned yeah kfeb baby wow yeah so uh oh shit johnny do you remember the first wrestler you really liked like like maybe not your favorite ever but like the first one you're like oh i i really dig what this dude's doing completely it was randy savage yeah i was so i've always been more of a heel guy uh-huh and uh yeah macho man like captivated me as a kid i was like this guy's the best i remember when he had he had a title match on tv against tito santana and it was when they were feuding and it was before

savage took the intercontinental belt off of them okay and i remember crying that Randy Savage lost I was like I was devastated oh wow so yeah I was like he was easily the first guy and I've had several you know over the years that are like my faves you know now I just

they're collectively like these these are my guys yeah and but Savage was the first one oh wow cool so you say collectively now like just because I'm curious like what would your top three guys right now be top three guys

all time or right now all time I'd go with macho man Randy Savage okay I know he couldn't work a lick but I sure did always love him and I love his politics Kevin Nash I always I always loved Big Daddy Cool and then

the third one is tough like there you know there's probably a list of 20 that tight for that i could go on yeah i really i really loved chris jericho when he was was newer the lion tamer yeah the when he did i loved like the lion heart version of chris jericho okay the one that like gotten upset on scott hall right right and uh but yeah i like i mean jake the snake roberts was a huge i was a huge fan of his in the eighties um you know nowadays you know i really love hangman Adam page you know I love Darby Allen and uh you know I could I could go there's so

many I love Brett I love Sean Michaels yeah uh Stone Cole Steve Austin one of my all time favorites so yeah I mean I could list so 50 that could be number three so yeah I'm trying to think who mine are I mean obviously like the first match I ever saw was the Midnight Rockers against Playboy Buddy Rose and Pretty Boy Doug Summers. AWA. Yeah. You probably watched it on ESPN. No, it was on KOFY TV 20 in San Francisco.

Wow. So AWA had a contract with like the third tier broadcasters in the Bay Area because I don't, I don't know if they took over what Roy Shire had or if they snuck in under it by expanding that more regionally. but either way that was my first exposure it was that and then I found WWF and I found the Heart Foundation

so like from day one I was all about tag teams yeah you know I mean that's so funny I remember those Playboy Buddy Rose Doug Summers versus Midnight Rockers matches and I just remember seeing Playboy Buddy Rose and being like this is this dude's an athlete that's crazy

that's crazy to me oh god and he'd always put the belt under his gut yeah dude he was i mean he was built like a butterball turkey he really really was the craziest thing he was um i'm trying to find a picture of him for you here at uh yeah that was the first time i'd ever seen tits on tv was playboy buddy rose and he'd always he would always announce his height and it was never that height or no his weight he'd always announce his weight but it was never coming in at 221 pounds i'm like dude you take a shit that's 220 pounds what he's talking about and take a look at the picture i just put in there and he's the guy on the right um this is this is was him from uh don owen's territory up in uh pacific northwest man those are some haircuts oh yeah

yeah i mean he just dude they thought they looked so tired back in the day oh god he was Oh, like, here's a deal. I'm looking at, all 217 pounds of them. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I know for a fact that, like, they were probably strong enough to, you know, crush me like a grape. But their physique does not read that way. Right.

Well, you know, like. If you could work, you could work. Like, if you listen to Memphis or St. Louis. announcing in the 80s they always talk about how the tendon strength in their forearms because they looked like truck drivers who lost their shirts right right and that's the thing is like in some of those other territories they weren't body territories when when Vince Jr. took on the WWF he he was a body guy yeah and if you had a great body you were going to you were going to get pushed yep ted rcd yeah playboy buddy rose was a jobber

in w f yeah but in in a w a ua he was a tag champion one of the top guys yeah it was and again because he could work i mean adonis came from that same territory right yep and and to vince's credit they did push adorable adonis they did with the strangest gimmick for the time ever he would come out in a mu mu and he he basically dressed like divine yeah okay yeah yeah yeah it was it was very john waters uh inspired yeah yeah so so yeah go ahead um you mentioned that you were you were there uh to see resslemia two semi live right yeah close circuit tv um Of the live events that you've been to, which one is up there is your favorite? Okay, so I've been to, you know, probably 20 or so.

I got to see WrestleMania 31 and at Levi Stadium, which was awesome. It was the night that, you know, Reins and Lesner were in the main event. Seth Rollins cashed in, won the title. first time you ever won the title that was crazy orton hit the rKO that's just an amazing the best one of all time yeah on set ralins because set ralins wrestled randy orton earlier in the night and lost actually lost to uh randy orton but yeah he did the tried to do the curve stop and randy just kind of launched him up off the off of his back and hit him with rkio yeah that's my favorite one ever um i agree so that that was incredible

But also, I just recently got to see AW in Stockton. And I had ringside seats. Thanks, Chris Jericho. But, yeah, I had ringside seats because Jericho got me and Holly ringside seats, which was super amazing. Holy shit. That's, I mean, that's cool because of how you had done got the seats, too. Right.

Just casually name drop. Oh, yeah. Yeah. one of the most successful pro wrestlers by the way I'm talking about this yeah yeah mute yourself and watch that 30 second clip um but yeah you've got one of the most successful wrestlers ever in terms of longevity right ever in terms of multiple promotions right you know and so like that and title holder and yeah title holder almost every one of them I think he still has the record on intercontinental titles yeah I think so miss might be close Yeah, but he's also the first undisputed champion of the WW He was the first AW world champion

Yeah And he's been so like I got to give Jericho his props He's been so good to my podcast He's been a guest to my podcast several times And He he likes the podcast So that's rad

It's awesome that he's been so kind And he's gotten me tickets to so many events At this point That's really good on Chris Cherico I never believe all the things people say about you Well now this podcast stands to be one of his favorites Although there we go By association

Yeah you know you know you know transitive property Yeah so so Ed you saw the RKO Isn't that amazing? That is that is the quintessential definition of murder murder acrobatics Yeah right there spangling Spangley Murder Gymnastics. Yeah, right there.

The sheer level of athleticism involved in everything about that clip. Yes. Just, okay, so getting a guy to step on your shoulder and being able to push him up and then having him launch from that. Wow. And then being able to time when he's coming down. The timing is just the most incredible part of that, is the timing. well just watching these two guys who weigh more than me and I'm I'm short and squat overweight but like these guys have got to be you know 260 Randy was 248 at that time okay

that's probably about 200 pounds yeah okay all right who weigh maybe 210 okay these these two big dudes yes are you know walls of muscle yes um seeing them moving with that level of balletic coordination and grace so seth has always been so dexterous in the ring right that's kind of his thing and randy is just if you ever want to see the best drop kick ever in the industry it's randy like he is just so smooth and fluid in his motions it's it's go ahead randy's such a great storyteller oh yeah like like that's the thing that always has stuck out with with him is the dude knows how to tell a story and that in that in itself puts you on a whole different level than a lot of people that are just athletic just strong just big yeah he really knows

he really knows how to spin a yarn in there yeah and he can he can because of his size now he's about 298 he's put on well I mean he's been doing it for as long as I've been a public school teacher yeah it's been around for a while now but so now he's about 298 so he's put on a lot more muscle but also he's gotten a lot older so it's harder to trim up you know man i remember when he was a kid yeah the youngest world champion of all time yeah when he had the stupid hair in front and then the next year he started spiking it up the modified caesar cut yeah yeah got and that pose that he'd always strike just yeah it's so good like he's yeah one of all-time greatest i think he's in the conversation for easily easily especially because of how he elevates everyone around him like he gets his but also

he makes sure that he brings people up with him so completely so okay your dad um encouraged it which is way cooler than what i had happened um my parents looked down their nose at it the whole time i was banned from watching it um oh damn you got banned because it was violent well no she wasn't so much about the violence it was the type of violence it was it was after the Undertaker shut Ultimate Warrior in the casket and then they had to resurrect him or

what's the word Revivify. CPR Oh okay resuscitate Resuscitate yeah CPR whatever that word is. Yeah that thing but she banned me from watching it for a while after that and I'm like I know it's not real

right right you're not dumb theater yeah this is yeah but but yeah But did you ever feel any stigma? Clearly not from your parents, but around the courtyard or the playground. Oh, yeah. I mean, at school, you know, luckily I got into it when there was a lot of kids kind of into it. That's cool.

But that sure did one. That went away. Yeah. You know, like it became really kind of nerdy to like wrestling in the 90s. I call it the vocational gimmick period. Yeah. Where it was like, everybody was like, oh, that's a repo, man. he's a wrestler we got duke the dumpster yeah those guys are work for waste management you know

teal hopper yeah yeah uh they were all like you know the goon he was a hockey player that was like a the whole thing was so corny and it really got to the point where like it was embarrassing to say you're a fan of wrestling but that all changed uh with n w o the NWO in like 97 I was like 20 it was like 96 97 was 19 or 20 yeah I remember it suddenly became cool to like wrestling and I remember I would wear my NWO t-shirt out to like the mall or the store to work oh and I people would be like hell yeah dude NWO for life and I'm like wow things have changed yeah where were you five years ago right right right and and wrestling is cool again it is it's back to being cool yeah yeah it's it's not just something bob yuker does for fun right right it's no longer uh it's no longer uh viewed at as like because everybody's in on it now you know yeah i think it was like wow you you think like grown men pretending to fight is cool you know and it's like now it's like everybody's smart to the

business. Yeah. And it's, it's made it a little bit more digestible for like a larger audience, I think. So do you think that that recognition, like, like changing it to world wrestling entertainment and, and that shift in the kind of wink that's now attached to KFAB, do you think that's, that's what has made it more palatable to be a wrestling fan? as like a mainstream thing i don't know if taken like you know the the f out has much to do with it

as much as it's uh k fab is dead yeah i mean k fab as we know it is dead in wrestling in wrestling yes i was going to say in politics that's all it is and no it's just the non-stop k fab yeah every time trump tweets something it's k fab yeah we got we got nuclear submarines heading to russia K-Fame. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. We all hope.

We're hoping that's not a shoot, brother. Yeah. That doesn't work for me, brother. Yeah. The verb shoot in that context is ominous. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I think, I think it is, they've opened it up to it's not just for freaks

anymore. Yeah. You know what I mean? So. Well, I think a few things shifted as well. when it came to freaks um right you know like they became it with the advent of social media people didn't feel isolated anymore which is both good and bad like you found other wrestling fan like i remember in fourth grade there was one kid ramsie hadad and ramsie if you're

listening i still remember you buddy um but he loved pro wrestling and his parents actually like encouraged it um i think it was part of assimilation for them because i i know that he was first generation american um i had the librarian at my school give me the the video cassette of the the first survivor series okay but it was like that was kept very much on the d l like you know it wasn't any kind of a grooming thing but it was just like hey no one else is going to understand that you like this right like you know something librarian should be doing, right? But then, like, as we got older with social media, like I said, like people can connect more. Now it's not just me connecting to the librarian and Ramsey. Now it's, oh, there's a few

guys in Ohio and there's a guy in Florida and there's a, you know, we all, we all decided to watch it together and, you know, and you kind of build that up. And with the internet culture being what it was, I mean, again, you know, there's, there's downsides to social media because you also people who are like, oh, I like watching hot women crush mice. Right, right. Well, she doesn't. Fair. It's a niche market.

It is. It is. Yeah. So, but what do you call it? Like, they, with the advent of social media, and I think that made it where the freaks didn't feel so isolated. Right. They found, they found their freak party.

yeah they were able to spot freak flags from farther away yeah and then those flags were NWO shirts like yeah exactly or an Austin 316 shirt I was gonna say yeah or the stone culture yeah yeah we talked about that yes and the the literal uh what was it uh eight figures that it made him in a year yeah so just goddamn and crazy um okay so so around yeah 97 because it's June of 95 I think it was like May when Scott Hall and Kevin Nash came over and then June was when they had the bash at the beach and then you had the NWO commercials coming out right shortly after that

so like you had July August You have that music, the porn music Yes It was just like talk about capturing lightning in a bottle Right And then they shirted fuck it up Yes they did They and I

When we say capturing lightning in the bottle, we mean it because, like, if you look at their early promos, they don't know what they've got, but they're casting as many nets as they can. And they're responding to what they're catching. Yeah. And it worked. And it worked for a few months. It was amazing. Yep. And then it got less amazing.

And then it got just ridiculous. And then it died. What was the addition to the NWO that killed it for you? Oh, my God. You name it. dude there was some michael wall street uh being in the n w o was uh big boss man uh ray trailer was the n w o uh virgil who went by vince vincent yeah and uh w cw that was a bad one uh there was so many bad ones and then there was additions that i liked i thought when they added six who later on became xpac

was originally like the lightning kid and the one two three kid i liked that edition and conan i thought was a good edition because i even liked scott steiner in the n w o and i did you yeah i liked i liked buff bagwell i loved buff because they needed a gesture yeah i thought they added something to it yeah but you know there was there was more that i i didn't like you know brian adams you know former that was crush yeah that was stupid being in the w i was stupid and Tegi Biasi being in the NWOS. It's just like, what is this? Well, again, to me, that was them casting around, right?

They're like, oh, and then we'll bring in this billionaire, and they're like, that's not working. Let's jettison him. They were like anybody that was involved in WWE at any time. Right. Kind of, they were like, okay, you could be in it too, because we're the outsiders, you know? Right. I really liked having Scott Norton be in it. I thought he was great, especially when they tagged him with Buff.

Yeah, he's criminally underrated. yeah Scott Norton's yeah but yeah then they they kind of they got too big uh shat the bed

and then they they absolutely whiffed on the the culmination of the whole story yeah I mean I think it was I talk about it when I teach a storytelling class and I talk about

there's nothing worse than a story that goes nowhere and that is kind of what happened with NWO you know you built up the Hogan Sting thing for 18 months yeah and then you you really shit the bed at Starcade with it and you know I talk about that in the book the that's one of the matches that's that's featured as Sting versus Hogan at Starcade nice because it's

one of the most anticipated matches that they couldn't figure out how the end the ending should go and it was because of Hogan yeah what got me with that too is that like Sting knew he was going to go over and and he did and then he didn't have a prepared thing to say and so he rattled off some shit in Spanish yeah dude I'll never be able to explain anything that happened after the three count of that match right so I don't do transitions well that seems like the best entryway into your book uh yeah let's talk about it wrestling watch list um how do you organize it okay so very loosely uh i thought about a million different ways to organize this book uh i was like well we could go by just decades

then we could go by like oh maybe we could go by tag teams singles wrestlers to make it real broad sure uh but i decided to go with like of eras but also like what was the match about was it a you know I think I have the best gimmick matches I have the golden era I have the attitude era you know

it's organized by the the vibe of the match and the era but it's very it's very loosely organized and I don't go into the weeds I remember when I first started writing it because I had to do a ton of

research on this book. So I had like 30 matches that I typed out that I was like these ones are some of my personal favorites of all time. For me, these are ones that have to go in there. But then I was like, there's 500 other matches that are considered some of the greatest of all time. So I have to do I have to do some research on this. So I watch two hours of wrestling matches. And, every night for 11 weeks probably you poor thing wow and but I was able to I was able to really kind of nail down and I could I'm playing with doing another book 1001 more wrestling matches they have to support because there's just so many and but more than anything they're not the best matches they're not all the best matches sure but there's significance to them

there's how important was it you know i don't think hogan and andre it's one of the greatest matches of all time oh god no eight minutes of kind of shit honestly it's not great you know andre could barely move uh hogan couldn't work anyways yeah but the importance of it uh on like a a global scale oh it's top tier was super important you know sting and hogan at starcade wasn't a great match but true this is significance of it as a kind of a failed blowoff yeah meant a lot you know and there's ones in there that you you wouldn't necessarily think but like goldberg and ddp from Halloween havoc in 98 that was the first time we ever said goldberg have a good match yeah you know that

was competing into that were disappointing because ddp was like i don't know if i'm going to beat him but it's going to be a good match and i'm like he's already setting us up yeah like we all knew and now you're giving it away and yeah but no with the shoulder injuries to both of them for that with the multiple like you know the the explanation for why ddp was able to kick out of what happened you know and stuff like that like that match i think ddp did a great job right and and i mean ddp carried him really and this is a guy that couldn't wrestle two years prior to that because he just didn't know how yeah uh you know he's such a weird story of a guy that was well into the 30s before he figured out actually how to wrestle we're talking about ddp here ed yeah goldberg is obvious but yeah

yeah yeah and but i also included some classics in there like from a technical standpoint like you know flaring steamboat right shytown rome at 89 which is just almost a perfect match in my opinion or sena and punk money in the bank 21st yeah we uh covered that in our yeah yeah we did so behind i'm going to pull back a curtain just a little bit to insert what we what we tried to get going during the pandemic was you and i were going to do watchalongs of matches and i did all the research and and and told you like i i would tell people the story leading in how we got there etc etc and then we would watch matches and we we watched punk and and sena we watched um oh god i i i think we watched ftr versus uh versus american alpha

american alpha which is a fantastic still to this day i'm pretty sure that's in the book yeah you actually you sent me a picture of it and i was like oh yeah that that's as far as tag team wrestling goes from a technical standpoint that's one of the best of all time yeah might be the most perfect tag team match i've ever seen really good um yeah but we we did that i don't have the tech capabilities to to do a good job and also we got sent to cease and desist by the wwee so yeah there's that yeah wow yeah okay uh just because like they're like don't you don't get to use our broadcast it's clearly you're trying to monetize this i'm like well yeah money would have been nice but yeah that would not cool you can spare some yeah yeah fuckers yeah

But it was a few bucks down But it was a really cool thing We watched the Ray and Eddie match Were from I think that was from a different Halloween Havoc Because Ray was dressed as a fan of Yeah, it's Halloween Havoc, yeah And we had a whole bunch lined up

But it just, yeah So but okay So loosely organized by vibe and era How did you One, how did you get the idea to do this And two, how did you get the idea to do this? And two, how did you get the support? to do this um so this is this kind of a funny thing where what inspired me was i had the you know

had the wrestling podcast right and uh you know you're talking through every every single uh pay-per-view every single dynamite and collision right and some of the matches really stood out and i'd be like oh man i'll remember that one and i was like there's probably so many people listening that haven't even seen half of the really great matches that you need to see. And I remember saying to Diana Prince, Darcy the Melgirl, who's one of my co-hosts, I was like, you know, I should put together a watch list that, you know, people should, should, you know, of matches they need to see. And it started off with like 10 or so. And I was like, dude, I actually is like right in ebook and self-publish it and uh kind of go into more detail about it and so i literally just

started writing you know that's cool started researching stuff that i i really there were so many things i'd never seen that i was like dude like some new japan stuff was just blew my fucking mind you know and this is stuff that i would have had to seen as a tape trader but now it's all pretty rarely available either on youtube or on the new japan app there's so much stuff archived there oh cool and so i really started you know i saw okada versus omega from wrestle kingdom 11 oh wow that is like that's a six-star match that yeah 99% of people in the american viewing population have never seen or like uh koada and missawa you know from 94 right dude i i had no idea who these guys even were and then I'm like

this is fucking one of the stiffest matches I've ever seen it might be if I say any kind of obscure match that you you haven't watched watch Masawa and Kawata it's absolutely incredible

yeah it's okay when you're talking about these particular matches I know in the context of when we've talked about Japanese wrestling here it's been in the context of you know American American American wrestling is you know trying to make a fake

fight look real Japanese wrestling is trying to make a real fight look fake does that apply in these cases or are these more Americanized kind of matches that you're talking about? Definitely not Americanized but it is I mean it's kind of

that's kind of a great way to put it I mean it's obviously a work you know it's not like a pancreation match from Japan where it was like you didn't know what was going I was kind of hybrid it was like a work shoot these are definitely works but man uh so stiff and the psychology is crazy and the thing

about Japanese crowds it's dead silent during the match um so you're not like you're not hearing a bunch of like cheering or heckling or chanting or or anything uh it's just at the end of the match there's a standing ovation yeah it's wild because like I remember watching uh might have been that match might have been another one But where I was like, oh, they didn't make the audience. That's stupid. But no. Because then they came roaring into life.

By the way, that comparison, the work looks like a shoot and shoot looks like a work. That comes from Jim Cornett. That is definitely not mine. Oh, yeah. No. But yeah, he said it's a simulated combat meant to look real, whereas wrestling in Japan is real combat that they try to make look simulated. Right. Okay.

So shout out to Corny for his wisdom. Yep. But, okay, so you just e-booked it and self-published. Self-published. Yeah, I mean, the support, honestly, it was, it's really a labor and love. But I'm shocked at how many of these books I sell a month. And from absolutely like no publicity, like, publicity, I didn't, I didn't even do a press release for it. Wow.

But people listen to the podcast. and people just kind of happening upon it. Right. Looking on searching wrestling on Amazon. People have stumbled upon it. And I've gotten so much great feedback on it. And like I said, it's not super wordy. It's definitely like my personality definitely shines through in it.

I think it's funny at times. I try to take the piss out of some of these matches. But it's still like it's definitely a dude that was. like, I'm going to write an e-book, and then I kicked it out over the course of about three months. That's cool. Now, it's published only electronically. It's not a hard copy. No, but this is the fun part.

I think I'm going to publish a paperback of it. And I actually have a publishing company interested in releasing it. So I'll have more news on that. But, yeah, if it's a paperback, trust me, I'll be lugging them around to shows. hell yeah dude oh that's awesome very cool that's fantastic okay so um you said you had best gimmick match in there yeah what uh what what what is the best gimmick match okay so i i think i i think i covered five of them uh one of them that stands out and you might not have seen this one damien okay but it's the uh the mimosa the mimosa match between orange cassidy and

And Chris Jericho. I heard about it. I have not seen it. You're correct. Dude, talk about something that sounds ridiculous. Yeah. Is ridiculous.

But it's also, because at the time, Chris Jericho was La Champion. And one of his gimmicks was, have a little bit of the bubbly. And he'd come out with like a branded champagne bottle. And then Orange Cassidy, the connotation is orange juice.

So they're like, we're going to fight a mimosa match. It ends with Chris Jericho being thrown off of a cage into a vat of mimosa's. And but how they get there is just about as ridiculous as you can imagine it is. So good. And then, you know, I have the classic ones, Piper and Valentine and the dog collar match from Starcade. Sure. The one that left Piper deaf in one ear.

Obviously, we got the Hellness Cell, Undertaker, Mankind, where mankind flies off the top of the hell in a cell and and then inadvertently as a shoot fell through the top of the cage which nearly killed them but my favorite my personal favorite of all time is triple h cactus jack and a street fight at the Royal rumble 2000 is that the one where a triple h gets sliced in the calf yep it gets the puncture wound in the calf yeah and uh that in my opinion is uh i i only have one flaw in it yeah and it's the rock didn't have to get involved that's when rock got involved in the uh in kind of the alleyway entrance area uh i thought it was unnecessary they overbooked it a little bit but yeah other than that i think it's as far as like

no no rule street fights go it's perfection to the stay it holds up yeah you know kevin nash's favorite street fight match is slaughter versus paterson oh wow and he points out he's like you you watch that match and then you sit back afterwards and you realize only nine minutes yeah didn't have a lot of time yeah but the the psychology of it and he was real big on that like when when people can tell a story in a 10 minute match it's incredible yeah you know when you look at cactus and triple age from 2000 and that's a 30-minute match, you know. And but I'll give them this, not a moment wasted in it, you know. True, true.

It always looked like somebody was fighting for a victory. Right. Yeah. Or recovering from being beaten for a victory, you know. Yeah, for sure. Was that, was that his retirement? No, well, I mean. I mean, yeah, he came back for mania.

That's a gray area with Foley. I think it was supposed to be. Right. It's the one where he... It's the one where he turns with literally blood, sweat, and tears on his face. And J.R. is saying, like, thank you, Mick. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. They end up saying that a lot of times over the years. Yeah. And it turns later into, like, well, thanks again, Mick. Yeah, and, you know, the Foley aspect of it was, like, such a big story. let's not forget triple h was at his absolute fucking best yes at 1999 to 2001 yeah he was so good in my opinion he was the best wrestler in north america uh at that time uh so over as a hill yeah violent vicious legitimately you felt like he was tough yep uh and his character work was just

top notch uh as good as rock was at that time and as good as austin was at that time having triple h is that you know healed that was kind of like also worked in the office you know he was dating the boss's daughter yeah uh he had a ruthlessness to him yeah he was thoroughly believable and he's he's criminally underrated on the mic in my opinion as well so yeah yeah i would agree okay so you had gimmick matches i i didn't know you meant by gimmick so thank you uh for showing by by those examples um what is the best tag team match you got in there uh so there's so many of them uh but if let me uh let me remind myself oh this one hearty boys versus edge and christian versus deadly boys oh god yeah tLC at mania 7 tlc match uh just absolutely

brutal creativity super stuntman shit spots especially you know edge taking the spear off the top of the ladder oh yeah giving it to Jeff still about one of the one of the greatest sell jobs of all time

oh yeah by Hardy yeah um and then there's you know Usos versus New Day more of a recent one 2017 Hellnessel tag match they had too incredible obviously we talked about the revival at the time which is now FTR right um and then they have they also have the match

against Gargano and Champa at a takeover Toronto yep 2016 absolutely fantastic uh rock and rollers versus Midnight Express Starcade 86 I was going to say that's the 86 match right yeah yeah classic uh you know good guys versus heels cornette getting involved when rock and roll comes out the pop that you hear it like dog's heads explode for miles like just southern tag team wrestling at its absolute peak yeah that was that was good shit and you hear all the girls all the girls screaming yeah the rock and roll express came out it's insane ed like the the amount especially when you look at them you're like they're they're popping for that oh i know Ricky rickie morton looks like some, you know, bad Mottley crew cover band guy.

And then Robert Gibson just looked like, you know, a regular Joe with a lazy eye. I'm like, you know, I can say that because I have a lazy eye. So my lazy eye brethren, Robert Gibson. Actually, Ed as well. All right. We're all family here. Yeah. This is a safe space for lazy eye.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. what were the matches that you left out of it um and i do want to get back to a few other kinds of matches too but where were the matches that you left out of it that you uh i don't know want to say like you wish you could put in but ones were you like oh man i hate that i had to cut that one one one of them that sticks out for me is the false uh the false title win uh jericho versus triple H from 2000

on Raw where there was a quick count. Yeah. And Jericho for a moment won the world title. And it was in the it was at the peak of Triple H's title reign.

Yep. And Jericho was not real over in the WWE. He came out really with a lot of fanfare, cut that promo against the rock. But he was struggling. to adapt to that WWF style. I think he was

losing matches to like hardcore holly and stuff and then out of nowhere he gets that quick count victory and it made I think if nothing else it made not only the crowd but Vince McMahon would say wait this guy might be a top guy

you know right so I think that is such a fun match and the pop the Jericho gets when he gets that three count is so insane and that one was hard to leave off and it was it almost made it so Jericho triple H for sure um also there was a hangman page versus Brian Danielson which uh hour hour long uh Broadway that ended up you know uh with no winner as broadways always do right uh and that one

was tough to leave off but it was I think it was a little bit of recency bias where I was like, maybe that's too recent to throw in there. Okay. But there was, there's been a few, you know, Triple H versus Danielson or Daniel Brian at the time. And Batista, even though it wasn't a great match per se, it was such a big like payoff moment for that yes era. Oh, that was the one in New Orleans, right? WrestleMania 30.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, ones like that where I'm like, they have their place on the list. But, man, we got 1001. And I didn't want to leave out ECW or New Japan. And I didn't want to make it all WW and all, you know, WCW. Right. So, you know, I had to kind of pick my spots.

And it's crazy. It's 101 matches. But, you know, there's really 300 that people really need to. see if they're interested in wrestling yeah easily all right so the the most indicative of the brand match that you have in there for ECW uh for ECW I you know I think I think I probably have let me let me look I know I have Sabu uh was it the triple threat yeah I think it is now there There's so, because I can say if you go for a moment, then it's throwing the chairs in the ring. Oh, my God.

Right. I've shown that one to Ed a few times. Or the use of the kayak. That was also. So I had Sabu, Funk, and Shane Douglas. Yep. And the triple threat. God, that was so good because you had such different styles, such different eras, and such different things to prove.

by each guy right and it was the way i looked at that match was saboo was such an ECW guy yes and then and terry funk is a legend he was a legend everywhere he ever went yep but he brought so much credibility to ECW yeah and then you had Shane Douglas who was kind of the smarmy ex-WF guy and uh it isn't making it to where obviously the styles clash sure but it's really eras clashing as well yeah and so you know for me of that era of like when ECW they didn't have a TV deal yet they were still very underground but they were definitely if you know you know kind of brand and for me that triple threat match was it it elevated the entire brand it did and it did things that you did not see anywhere else like number one it

a triple threat like when i think triple threats i think about ECW as being kind of the the real trailblazers but like the amount of i i mean for lack of a better term gaga but it was effective like right you know the the chair spot where it's in the middle of the ring and then sabu jumps from there to the to the ropes and then back and it's just like holy she like they start chanting holy shit for a reason you know yeah and i mean and that was part of his move set you know that that was like that was something he did all the time right and no one was doing that shit on the other channels at all no like you had you had blitzkrieg on wcd trying to copy what ray did like right you know and it's blitzkrieg I liked him a lot we're going deep now yeah yeah hey can you

find somebody smaller than ray mysterio yes yes his name is blitzkrieg and he's 4 foot 10. I'm surprised he wasn't fighting Lord Littlebrug. Right. But like, yeah, that EC, that to me is absolutely the quintessential ECW match. Like, and like you said, I would point out that like in a lot of ways, Shane Douglas was kind of a proto-cerebral assassin before Triple H took it and ran with it. Like he was, you know, very ruthless, very powerful.

he was a believable badass and also he got the title first he's the whole reason ECW existed as a name yeah and that promo and you know you got there's so many I mean you have some of the Tass and Rob Van Dam matches

which are Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn which is some of those matches I mean the match they had at Hardcore Heaven Yeah it was too fat could have been 99 Yeah You know, in my opinion. That was before December to remember, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a perfect, you know, display of, like, athleticism and just absolute violence. Yeah. Mike Awesome versus Tanaka, which was, you know, they had so many matches, but they did one on heat wave, which is one of the most bat shit crazy matches you ever going to see. You know, it looks like a real fight. that's the power bomb through the table outside off the top rope right yeah yeah so just a just a completely cuckoo banana spot it's i remember watching that and then looking at uh it's tanaka

right yeah tanaka yeah uh i remember looking at tanaka's chest going like Jesus Christ that guy has scars yeah yeah i mean and so many of these guys aren't even alive anymore yeah uh and a lot of it has to do with spots like that. It's not an endorsement, but you talk about like living and dying for your art. Yeah. All right. So most indicative match in the book for New Japan or NJ or New Japan or any other.

Because there's a couple different. Yeah, all Japan, which was, you know, pretty much there. Yeah. If you want to go kind of like recently, Any of the Kenny Omega Okada matches. Okay, yeah. I mean, they wrestle a Dominion in 2018, Russell Kingdom, which we talked about a little bit.

But for me, and we already talked about it, it's Masawa and Kawata from 94. Absolutely perfect. Also, Ultimo Dragon versus Jushan Thunder Liger. Oh, God damn. Like, just those two names in a match sound amazing to me. Yeah, I mean, it was post-Lygh, having his WCW run right he ended up coming back and it was right before

Ultimate Dragon went to WCW sure but a complete classic at the Tokyo dome so it's just like the atmosphere is crazy that's great so yeah that's definitely one but I would say like the quintessential like New Japan at their peak in the in the mid 90s Masawa and Kiwana okay quintessential WCW match that's not the the biff that Hogan and Sting was? Yeah, I mean, Steamboat and Flair from Shightown Rumble.

So I'm going to quibble. Isn't that still NWA? Yeah. Because that's 89. Yeah. Kind of. It's 89, which they were going by World Championship Wrestling. Oh, they were still affiliated with NWA.

Yeah. I mean, that belt was for the NWA belt. Right. But that was a licensing thing at that point. because they were I think at that point they were they were kind of transitioning out of Jim Crocker promotions yeah he was handing it off to Turner to Turner so plus you know there's there's one of the ones I left off the list but I still think it's kind of a quintessential WCW match is Sting versus Vader.

Great American Bash, 92. Yeah. Was that the one in Maryland? Yeah, an absolute classic. Yeah. Vader basically beats the living shit out of sting. Yeah. And that was the moment that I think people were like,

oh, I think Vader might be the best hill in wrestling. Yeah. It's so sad when I went to WWF because he never was able to kind of get it going over there. But, you know, a lot of us, people that watched both programs were like no man vader's the shit you know it's it's stupid that you had kane hit him in the head with a a wrench like yeah this guy could be so much more yeah vader vader was one of the guys that went over there that uh huge missed opportunity because he was such a

monster well and uh ed remember when i was talking about the uh the rise of the rattlesnake and the fall of the hitman. Vader was right there in that mix. Oh yeah. No, I remember. Yeah. Yeah.

And he's fucking terrifying. It was. And then they started using him to show how bad ass Steve Austin was. They used him. They used him. Yeah. They used him for the wharf effect.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Johnny, did you ever watch Star Trek? I mean, not. No.

No. Okay. Warf is. Yeah. Go ahead. So in, in the next generation, Worf is the Klingon member of the bridge crew

of the Enterprise, and he is the biggest, toughest guy on the bridge. And so narratively, when somebody shows up and kicks Worf's ass, that's the signal that, oh, hey, this guy's a really big threat. Right.

The problem is when you do it too many times, it just starts making Worf look like the butt monkey. Yeah. Well, Vader definitely was starting to look like, the butt monkey yeah yeah um okay so that's yeah i like i like the inclusion of that one um quintessential let's see we got ECW i think i've covered them all so quintessential WWF match okay so there's a lot of them obviously yeah the most important uh you know i would say you kind of got a break into air is a little bit okay i say of the

initial golden age for me it's still Savage and Steamboat WrestleMania 3 I think that was everything you wanted it was

first off it was even though Steamboat got to win that was really the beginning of the ascension of Randy Savage to like a world title contender which he ended up getting a WrestleMania 4 in that very strangely booked tournament

but he uh he uh he won the title uh by winning that tournament a tournament that hogan and and andre the giant wrestled in the first round of and uh technically they had a buy in the first round so they were in the second round they were so they both uh took each other out neither one of them ended up going anywhere yep uh but you know that for that era you know i think that is one one of them. In the 90s, for the second golden age, the attitude era, I really think Brett and Stone Cold Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I can't argue with that match. The double turn. Yep. And again, the ascension of Stone Cold Steve Austin is a world title threat. Despite losing. Yep. And then I honestly think money in the bank with Pank and Sina for that

kind of uh the reality era if you want to call it that yeah or the ruthless aggression era ruthless aggression don't tell end of the ruthless aggression era yeah um but you know those three i think uh kind of gets you to where you are today yeah no i could i could see that um any sleeper matches not where they finish by using a sleeper but any sleeper matches that you uh that obviously pretty much anything new japan but any any sleeper matches that uh folks would be like oh shit this is really a good example of this thing like yeah i mean i'll kind of go on that new japan uh was this is one that doesn't get talked about a lot and it's technically a ring of honor match

but Kenta Kobashi who's one of the all-time greats in New Japan and taken on Samoa Joe for Ring of Honor in 2005 basically this this was a cross-promotional

kind of dream match and it's it's Joe kind of really showing he can hang with some of the best in the world and yeah I would definitely say

ring of honor joe versus new japan's kobashi in uh in uh ring of honor is incredible and i i don't quote me i think it's 2006 could be 2005 but uh an absolute five star classic joe is one of those guys that i don't think i've ever seen him have a bad match he's so good no matter how badly booked he gets yeah he's so good yeah he's so good yeah he's he's just fucking amazing like ed he's about our body shape okay but he's about probably close to 300 pounds built like a brick shit house yeah okay just you know not an ab on him like he's he's the one in Steiner math okay he's the one that that Steiner's talking to um and Steiner talks regularly he's like you see that that's a vein you don't have those like not real

vascular but like he can fucking fly which is insane and then on top of that like he does this great move I love it if a guy is jumping off the top rope at him if he doesn't want to get hit he just walks away from it yep the walk away so good and you got some guys who are like looking at him going why yeah what you do Christopher Daniels was always the best to be like you fucking bastard You bastard. It's just so good. But Joe does all these really creative, like, grappling stuff. He chain wrestles really well.

He brought in kind of the MMA stuff when MMA was still just Tito Ortiz and Randy Cotter. And, you know, Chuck Liddell was starting to get popular. So it was not as mainstream. And so he would incorporate things like that. But he would also, he, again, he could get up. He had the agility. He was the biggest guy in the X division, which was poorly. defined but it yeah hard hard to tell what that even Matt but the ex division tended to be little

guys who could fly and then joe is also in there and he held his own as a spectacle but also with just vicious as fuck like like he was he was good his facial so so okay little guys who can fly and then you have this guy who sounds like a highlander from battle tech like a 90 a 90 ton meck that that fucking thing has jump jets yes yeah yeah okay hi yeah he got it yeah jo uh joe is a very unique character in the world of wrestling he really is and damien one last one uh that's kind underrated is uh kota abushi versus cedric alexander uh cruiser way classic uh 2016 oh yeah absolutely fantastic so good i got a standing ovation triple h came out and endorsed cedric Alexander afterwards.

And he got signed shortly thereafter, but that's an absolute fucking banger, five-star match. It was. Oh, my God. That tournament had so many good fucking matches in it. I think you and I watched the Galaher versus who was that? It wasn't Kobashi. Oh, that was a great match. What was that?

So there's this guy, Ed, who is 140 pounds. soaking what British and has the handlebar mustache and stands like a prim and proper and his whole strategy for wrestling is to be an escapologist you grab his wrist

he works it around and it's really cool I wish they would do more with I wish they would have done more with it and he has almost like a pigeon back stance too like sway back a little bit and it just adds so much

prissiness to it, but he's going against a guy who I was against Tuzawa. It was to Zawa. Okay, I was like, I swear to God, he's tagging with Otis now. But he's going against a guy who is a really stiff kicker and worker and stuff like that. And he basically ties him up into a pretzel and escapes out the back of the hold and the guy's own body weight is what's giving the pressure to keep him in that hold. And so Gallagher just steps back And the guy is screaming in pain and anger And nobody's touching him And that's amazing

He sells it so well Like that's Tuzawa like just being a friend But like it was a hilarious spot It was so memorable and it was just so unique Yeah But it sounds like it Yeah and Cedric Alexander came out And beat the shit out of that match

Like that match had me I'm just like popping all over the place And then the Alexander match is just like Level yeah It's just a such a good match The whole tournament was such a classic Go back and watch it 2016 Yeah it was

God that was that was good stuff Okay yeah that's that's a good hidden gem All right so I got to ask you Your favorite wrestler of all time It's got to be macho right Masha, yeah, I'm going with Motch. All right. Ed, how about yours? Oh, shit.

Having watched so very little. Having, having, yeah, having not anywhere near the depth of experience of either one of the two of you. I'm going to have to say, of all the names that have been mentioned tonight, Riki Steamboat. All right, dude. Steamboat was the shit. He was, dude. I had a buddy in the fifth grade who was a huge Ricky Steamboat fan. You lived in Hawaii at the time, too, didn't you?

Yeah. Yep, there you go. Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah. But, yeah, I, you know, me being me, you know, he was a face. Yep. And. Favorite class of paladins.

Yeah, well, you know, hey. Anybody who knows me This is None of this is going to be a surprise But yeah And so Like my friend's enthusiasm Kind of rubbed off

I think On the other side of that My favorite heel of all time Would have to be Roddy Piper Oh hell yeah Yeah Just because I remember At in that era

Like recognizing that Oh yeah No this is this is a bad guy like like and he's and he wasn't like a mustache twirling villain no it was it was the fact that

no no he's he's just a prick yeah he's a he's a he's a he's a terrier yeah and he and he played it so well yeah you know um and and you know I didn't have the vocabulary or the emotional

you know maturity yet to understand what what it was that he was doing with that but the fact that it was like this guy's a complete rat bastard but like I still have to respect him like you know so yeah those those probably be my too

do you know here's here's a fun fun couple facts about each of those for you Ricky Steamboat's real name yeah Dick blood Dick blood and he was never a heel wow

can't mix that up Yeah, that's just, I'm sure he went by Richard, but maybe not, but yeah, and then Roddy Piper's real name was Roderick Toombs and who's out of Saskatchewan. There are cousins to the Hart family whose last name is Tooms, but with an E between the B and the S. So it's possible that they're cousins. Could be. Yeah, distinct. Could be a long, and, you know, Brett always love Roddy. Yeah, he really did.

which uh so yes bread is my favorite there's no surprise there um it's i it's probably one of the reason you know how like i love star wars and i've never done a star wars episode yeah and i've done no i guess i did do a brett hard episode because it was the rise of yeah there's the rise of the rattlesnake fall of the hitman um which by the way patting myself on the back for that title i'm gonna do a little very no or wits action here i like that yeah um but uh okay so johnny what was your favorite match uh that was in the book and then what was your favorite match of all time uh they're the same one probably uh favorite match uh favorite match and it's it's a hot take but i do love it so much it's trips versus cactus jacks jac 2000 royal rungle it's my favorite match of all time it's the one i've

watched probably the most when i want to show somebody what wrestling is yeah i refer to that match I think the storytelling is great. It's two stars at the very top of their games. Yep. It's so good. And I know it's, you know, I know it's not the best match of all time, you know, objectively. Mm-hmm.

But that's my favorite. All right. Ed, do you have enough that you watched or just the one that stands out the most? I'm not, I'm not really qualified to give much of an answer here. you know I've I've heard a whole bunch of the stories that you know you've related in in terms of stuff but I don't yeah I'm not I'm not qualified to give an answer there I'm not I'm not enough of a of a fan but what about you my favorite will tie in your favorite heel and my favorite guy it's it's the I want to say only one of two good matches at WrestleMania 8 um the other one being Tito versus Sean because that was a good fucking match Tito could really work

God damn he could even with that stupid Matador gimmick I know El Matador Yeah But it's Brett Hart versus Roddy Piper for the Intercontinental title So good And what a great way to like

The ending of that match still gets me It's I think it's the most complete match Bell to Bell It tells the most complete story you don't need to know anything that came up to it. So, like, when I talk about wrestling and I want to show somebody a wrestling match, that's the one I do because you don't need to know who either of these guys are and they will take you in, I think, like, 11 minutes or 12 minutes,

they will take you on a journey that lets you know what they meant to each other, what it meant to win. Roddy Piper is a face at this time. He goes from being a face to a heel back to a face in less than a minute. in this match the crowd literally has been cheering him this whole time and then they boo the shit out of him and then they cheer him again yeah it's it is amazing it also uh bret used that same ending that same finish uh with stone cold at survivor series yep in uh in 96 yeah um or no 95 96 I I always fuck up that year um but uh yeah it was um it it it there's there's no fat on that bone um it was a match between a brawler and a technician and the technician had to start brawling and the brawler had to start using technique yeah nice it was so good like also brett and davy boy uh davy boy baby boy being fucked up

up off his ass and Brett Brett carrying him to like a four star match is still Brett's responsible for more people having a four star match or a five star match than anyone else. Yeah, I mean, I think him and I think he got diesel in one. Kenny Omega is one that can have a match with anything. Yeah.

Even he actually wrestled in that nine year old girl. He wrestled a broomstick. That's right. still made it compelling so yeah kenny's as far as like modern legends kenny's right up there yeah he is cool i just hate his hair yeah you know it kind of looks like shirley temple yeah it really does um oh god what's the the the woman's name over on a w who is a 1930s film starlet oh tony storm absolute perfection chef's kiss best character work in wrestling in my opinion you're so fucking good she's you should hear her talk ed she has a transatlantic accent

oh my god really oh yeah and her her her promos are amazing like just so good her thank you noticed it was oh it's great she's brilliant yeah so okay so uh and yeah we covered both of those things um what uh what matches do you know that you're going to include in in the next one that people would not necessarily think about. Like they get lost in the child. Yeah, I would say hangman versus Swarth Strickland from last year. With the staple gun?

In AWAT, yeah. Oh, and the syringe? Surringe in the cheek. Jesus Christ. That one is just for pure spectacle, amazing. Storyline's great. I mean, hangman burns Swarf Strickland's house down. I mean, you can't like,

From a story life's perspective, it's a swerve broke into hangman's house and, like, leered over his kid and his crib. Yeah. It's absolutely fantastic. It's so many levels above Austin and Pilman. Yeah, that's going to be in there. Osprey, Will Osprey taking on Swirf Strickland just recently is definitely going to be in there. Jericho, Triple H, False Finish, that'll be in there. yeah there's there's a few that

uh i had to leave out but i'm gonna have to get back in the lab and do some research you know yeah mjf's got a lot of really good shit out there oh mjf punk uh and a dog collar match is really good yes just oh punk elevated him and he rose that challenge like yeah yeah it's uh that's the thing man about wrestling uh you never know when the next five star class classics going to come. Could be tomorrow night. Yeah. So cool. All right. Well, God,

I'd love to talk to you about wrestling forever. We'll just get booked on another show together. Right, right, for sure. So for folks who didn't remember, Johnny is on episode 78 with us, a quiet place for rural white people.

And he is the author of Wrestling Watch List, which you should go out and get and check it out and leave some reviews for it and let him know how well he did that'll be awesome Johnny is there anything

you'd like to plug that's coming up as of this release it's going to be either early October or late October yeah I would say by the book

for God's sakes and also follow me on Instagram or Twitter or wherever at hipsterocracy and I post my dates come see me live, it'll be fun.

Yeah, it is. And I'll put on a good show. And other than that, just keep supporting live comedy, keep supporting wrestling, and keep supporting a geek history of time. It's a great podcast. Thanks, man. Appreciate that.

Okay, so, Ed, what are you going to recommend that people read or watch or consume? I'm going to recommend that people, find there it's been printed in several different anthologies um the gurnsback continuum is a short story by william gibson who i've talked about before on here talking about cyberpunk um and the the overall themes of it uh and the way it calls out a particular kinds of uh bias in early period science fiction is really good and like everything that William Gibson has written it is it is the prose is amazing it's a it's a great science fiction story that

kind of takes you a little bit by surprise and leaves you thinking so yeah go look it up find an anthology that it's in and and give it read the Gernsback continuum how about you um well i'm going to recommend a couple things obviously i'm going to recommend a wrestling watch list uh by johnny taylor uh so go and check that out in case um him plugging it wasn't enough for you um and the other thing i'm going to do is if you are in the sacramento area i'm going to recommend that you actually uh look up a professional wrestler named Blacklight, B-L-A-Q, L-I-G-H-T, and look him up because he is a local wrestler. If you go check out N-L-P-W, which is Next Level Pro Wrestling, in the Sacramento area.

Often there are shows weekly. You can find one in Sacramento. Just look up N-L-P-W and go watch him wrestle. He's a local guy done good. I think he just got his belt back, too, or just defended it, as of this recording. But he is doing all kinds of really good wrestling and has been for a couple of years. So, again, look up, Blacklight, B-L-A-Q-L-G-H-T, and then, yeah, he's usually wrestling out of next-level pro wrestling, and he also does some stuff in the East Bay.

Cool. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Johnny, is there a place that you want to be found? You recommended your Twitter. Yeah, you did the hipstrosy. So, yeah, I think we covered. Come find me.

Just come find me. I'm easy to find. Yeah. Just Google Johnny Taylor. Yeah. Come up to him and just for no good reason yell confetti. See what happens. I'll know what you're talking about.

Yeah. So, Ed, where can they find us? We collectively can be found. at our website at wubblewobabwobba.ggehistorytime.com and the podcast can be subscribed to, which I strongly recommend you do, on the Apple podcast app, on the Amazon podcast app, and on Spotify. And Damien, where can you be found, sir? Well, you can find me and the crew at Capital Punishment down at the Comedy Spot in Sacramento

every first Friday of the month at 9 p.m. get your tickets early go to sack city comedy spot or sack comedy spot pardon me dot com and go to the calendar area

and grab your tickets there let's see you've missed the October 3rd show so I'm betting that you still have time to go see the November 7th show and if not then then make sure you get the December 5th show we are well into our 10th year

we have a new host she is amazing Emily sued and Justine and I are just slinging puns back and forth. We have a new belt. So come check it out and see how we do. So yeah, that takes care of me. Well, Johnny Taylor, from all of us here at a geek history of time, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

So fond, dude. Thank you so much, you guys. Absolutely. Thank you again. And for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blaylock. And until next time, keep rolling 20s.