A Geek History of Time - Episode 373 - Interview with Pittador Brews Owners Liliette Freeman & Stephen Freeman Part I

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

When I think nuclear annihilation, I think... La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la I'm gonna drink a metric fuck time of coffee and hope that I stop right before I start seeing sounds That's one of my one of my favorite I don't know if you know like yeah favorite awful thing I get it I get it Like bitch took the ice trees meanwhile this guy is going into a unicorn cave This is better than the what is the orientation of the chicken strapped to your head question the essential part of democracy to me is not that I should spend a lot of time in governing myself, for I have many more amusing things to do. But I want to be quite certain that I can change the

person who governs me without having to shoot him. That is the essence of democracy. You mean herje? Probably. Okay. Well, I mean, yeah. I don't know if that's just, you know, my inner drama queen. Okay, so this is really hard because you're talking about like serious important things to you. The amount of jokes that, like, I think they're funny as shit. My name is Ed Laylock, a world history teacher here in Northern California. And just earlier this evening, I got a new piece of furniture delivered to my house that I did not have to purchase nor even consider until about an hour and a half before it arrived. my in-laws are selling their house and they need to massively downsize.

And we just got a text message saying, hey, we're sending, this was a text message to Lee, my wife, saying, hey, we're sending your brother with the table from our living room behind our couch. So he'll be there at, you know, this time or thereabouts. I was like, oh, okay, cool. I mean, the good news is it fits. We actually have a spot for it. It's one of the few pieces of furniture they have that we could actually find a place to fit in our much, much smaller than their mansion home. But it was kind of a, oh, okay, cool kind of moment. Yeah.

So that was a bit of an adventure. It also partially fell apart on the way down the mountain from Reno. So while we were putting it back in the living room, we got to partially reassemble it. So that was a fun addition to an otherwise pretty placid evening. How about you? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I am a U.S. history and government teacher up here in the Northern California area at the high school level. And I got my mom to finally listen to an episode of our podcast because

she was concerned that my children, having just gotten smartphones, would fall into the same trap as other kids their age. My daughter's 13. My son is 16. Actually, my daughter's nearly 14. But she was concerned about all of that with social media and all that. And I was like, look, we've got guardrails in place. I'm very strict about like no social media for you. The only social media that you will have will be Instagram, but that's only once you get to high school because there are clubs that rely on that as communication device and and we will figure it out as we go and I always have the right to pull back. And those are, you know, conditions of owning the phones. And I told my mom, don't worry. I already did all this research when I was doing

the episodes on L. Frank Baum, the creator of, oh God, Wizard of Oz. Wizard of Oz. Yeah. And she said, wait, you did research on L. Frank Baum and that, took you here. I'm like, oh yeah, it's all about the Ten Woodsman and, you know, the amount of hearts that you get and your life is measured by how many people love you, not how many people you love and how awful that was. So

I dove deep. It's episodes 171, 172, 173, by the way. And so I sent those to her. And so I've been getting kind of a play-by-play all day from her about these episodes. And they're not short, but she is retired. Nice. So the, the,

my favorite input that I've gotten back from her, feedback I've gotten back from her, was telling me, wow, I never would have imagined your interests would have actually produced anything like good. I'm like, oh. Thanks, Mom. Midwestern moms are the best.

I tell you. They will talk so nice about you behind your back. But, good heavens. So anyway, so my mom likes our podcast, I think, is really the takeaway here. Yeah, and that's also the birthplace of the phrase luxury chickens. Yes, yes. Yeah.

So, yeah. So, yeah, so that being said, I would like to point out that we have a couple guests with us, Lilliet and Stephen Freeman, co-owners and I believe co-founders of Pitador Brews in Sacramento. I'll plug it up top and I'll plug it at the end. It's at 1,05 2nd Street in Sacramento. It's an old Sacramento. And it is a remarkable coffee shop.

I found it largely because my partner and I were looking for a new coffee place. And it was the first one that we happened into. And we're like, okay, well, we'll check them all out in Old Sack. And then afterwards, we're like, we don't need to go anywhere else ever. This is phenomenal. And we haven't. So. And brought you.

Yeah, and then you introduced me to it. And I have not been back because if I go back, it'll be a danger to my blood sugar level. Yeah, yeah. Because it's too good. Entirely, entirely too good. So, yeah. So anyway, Lilliet and Stephen, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us tonight.

Thank you for having us. And we can work on that blood sugar. We like a good challenge. We got drinks for that. Do you really? Because I just got diagnosed. So I have to change how I absorb coffee. We'll just have to train.

We'll slowly train your palettes to be sugar-free. Okay. You can join my world of straight shots of espresso or straight black coffee. But you'll be more sensitive to the flavors. Okay. Since you won't have that sugar exposure as we wing you off. Yeah. All right.

I'm here for it. That's. All right, there you go. But the trouble is your Cuban Missile Crisis is way, way, way, way too good. It's amazing. Yeah. See, the good thing with that is that that's very low sugar. So you should be fine as a treat for that.

Okay. Oh, okay. Only like maybe. Cool. I like hearing that. So the Cuban Missile Crisis is, a shot of espresso. So when you're loading it into

the port of filter is what it's called that holds the espresso. We also add turbinato sugar into it. And so we press it, we get it ready to put in the espresso machine. And once it goes in, the pressure and the heat of the water will melt the sugar into the espresso, into the shot.

So it comes out sweet, creamy, but strong. So he's like, oh, I was like, it's similar to like Cuban coffee. And he's like, yeah, it's like a Cuban missile crisis. I'm like, oh, my God, no, let's call it that. And he was like, no, let's call it that. So that's how that ended up with that name. But it is good. Yeah, it's delicious.

Like that was my birthday treat. Yeah. And I've been back for it every time since. So. So many people I'll use, I'll let use my porcelain cups, by the way. Wow, I'm touched. This is awesome. Okay. So, so let's start at the beginning. It is a family-owned business, yes? Correct. And how many of you own it? So technically, it's the two of us that own it, but my sisters and parents and your mom and stepdad have emotional and financial and, you know, all blood, sweat and equity that goes into it.

They all have played different roles in supporting us. And then we have our mentors, too. They all have played very big roles in supporting us in this dream that we started, five, six years ago. Yeah, six years ago. And our business mentor, I mean, we have people realistically all over the country. So we've been very, very, very, very blessed and very, lucky that we meet people and they somehow become part of our community, part of our dream,

and somehow they end up, you know, lifting us and we end up lifting them in some way, shape, form. Yeah. That's cool. Can you expand on that? Like, it sounds like people are kind of like emotionally buying in and then also maybe financially buying in, but like it lifts you guys and it sounds like you're bringing them with you or yeah yeah i like to see it yeah i like to think because i mean they feel um like

like once they get to know us they feel emotionally invested um in not only seeing a succeed but seeing the business succeed because the products are good and also too um just the overall just awareness of not only you know good quality tea and coffee that's affordable um but also you know our love of dogs specifically you know pit mixes because they have such a bad rap. There's also inspiration because I have some co-workers that are emotionally invested to, a lot of them actually. And so one of them, after seeing me kind of get this starter, she decided to go back to the

Philippines and buy a plantation. She's growing coffee. She's growing chocolate and she's raising chickens. And she came to me. She's like, you know, thank you for, you know, the kick in the butt because, you know, we work these desk jobs and we kind of forget the outside world, you know, it's just go. home, you know, sleep, I'm back to the office. Rinse and repeat. And I said, you know, do you really want to die in the chair? You know, there's so much more out there. And, you know, I know,

I know, we're approaching our 40s and 50s, but there's so much more we can be doing than just dedicating ourselves, you know, selling our time for money. I go, isn't there something you want to build, something you want to do with your hands? And she took that. And I didn't even know, she, you know, two years later, she actually, that's what she revealed to me. You know, I have a chicken farm and we'll love for you to come out and visit. I'm like, I want to buy your coffee. You know, I never had Philipian coffee before. So we're kind of working it out to where maybe I can actually source from her, but there's a lot of particulars. We've got to work out. Sure. Yeah. It's awesome. But that's what we mean emotionally invested, you know,

and becoming part of a bigger community. Like we influence them. They influence us in different ways. We started the business about almost six years ago right around the beginning of the pandemic. We talked about, you know, ownership, starting our own business, being our own bosses. And Steve and I, we've known each other since junior high. Yeah, so we've known each other a really long time. And that's something that's always been a common threat that we've talked about, wanting to, you know, be self-sustaining in some way, shape, or form. And we somehow got this opportunity and we've just kind of run with it. Yeah.

I mean, I've had that bug in me since I was 10 years old, you know. Just to own your own. Just to be your own boss. You know, I got that message at a young age from my mom. She doesn't remember this conversation, but I remember it very well because I was mad at her. And so she told me, you know, when you get older, there's no money for you. You know, you're going to have to get a job and you're going to help me with these bills around the house if you stay in my house.

And I just looked at her. I was like, I can go out and make my own rules. You know, if I'm going to do that, I might as well leave because then I'll be, you know, subjected to your own rules and how you want your household. But I want my own. kind of like that scene in Conan and Barbarian I don't know if you remember or Conan the Destroyer where he tried

I will have my own queen exactly I was like oh that's you know I grew up with those movies and they were very impressionable to me and that scenes like I will have my own kingdom and my own queen I'm like yeah you got that right I'm going to have my own

nobody's going to be nothing you know and I've always kind of just live by that that code I guess you know I'll do it so you know don't know help I'll get this but, you know, it beats his first motto, crush your enemy, see them driven before you, and do hear the limitations of their women. I think of the two, I think that's a healthier one. It's certainly more pro-social. It's immensely more pro-social. So, yeah, we can, we, it has that

going for it. I just, I always refer back to that movie because even though this guy, you know, the main character wants to be a loner, he, he attracts. friends and allies on pursuing his goal because there's some people who would want to follow him as a king right and he's just doing him yeah everybody's so inspired by his strength his charisma and just in his ability to just succeed yeah yeah i mean he even has that plan going in you found two conan nerds by the way uh we did a couple episodes where ed just breaks down yeah the entirety of the author and all of that. Let me just let me just say

this. His team's profile picture at work it is James Earl Jones. Thosa doom. Fossa doom. Yes and the number of people who are like, oh fuck yeah. You don't look like that when they meet them in person. So we used to

take calls for I work out of me. So we used to take these calls all the time and and when we implemented teams during the pandemic, I'm like, you know I'm tired of people calling me. They should be making tickets and then I'll call them. So when I changed my picture, people stop calling because they see me in person and then they go find me on teams like, oh, that's not him. I'll move on to the next person. Oh, I love it. I thought it was because they were afraid you'd like raise their village

looking for steel. Yeah, I thought. So my who at work is what is the riddle of steel and people are just so confused. I'm like, don't call me. I get the feeling that you and I and I and Ed would get into so much trouble not getting work done. Oh, fuck. Oh, God, yeah. There's that rare few that know what that picture is. That's not you. That's James Earl Joe.

Well, you get to call me all the time. Then don't, don't you? Yeah. Yeah, all right. Cool. There was a gal when I was very young. We've been friends since she was 11. I was 13.

And I dare say I carried a torch for her for years. And a lot of it had to do with the fact that she and I both loved Conan the Barbarian. Like we both would listen to the soundtrack. Like, you know, it just unfortunately were separated by geography a bit. But like, we bonded over that in just the weirdest damn ways. So it's, it's very funny to me that you're quoting the admittedly less good sequel as like, but this was influential, you know. Well, I didn't know. Yeah.

The basketball player in that movie. Will Chamberlain. Will Chamberlain. I didn't realize that was him. I didn't know if it's a basketball player and then someone said his name. I was like, Will Chamberl. Yeah, he was in Conan and Barbarre. You remember that movie?

I was like, that's him. I went to go watch it again. I'm like, oh my God, it's full as, you know, blue as day. You know, it's crazy. Did you, did you know that Andre the Giant was in that movie as well? He played the giant horn monster. Oh, that was him. Yeah, when they awakened Dagoth and it turned out to be bad.

That was Andre in there. Wow. And so I never look back at any of this stuff because I just love watching the movie and just, you know, and I never fall asleep to it really. Yeah. That's one movie I never fall asleep to. Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah.

My friends and I watched both of those movies, I don't even know how many times in middle and high school. Like to the point that, you know, we could quote them. line for line back and forth to each other. That was the one that we did that with before the Blues Brothers, the Blues Brothers, which was the next one that entered the rotation there. So, yeah. In fairness, Conan the Barbarian, he had like 12 lines in the whole thing. That's true.

That is a good point. But, okay, so you had essentially that entrepreneurial spirit from the jump. Yeah, you know, and I've always tried. I tried so many different things and trial there. This is before the Internet, too, on how to start your business. Originally, when I graduated high school, I wanted to open a card shop because I was a big fan of Magic the Gathering when it came out. But when you start a business and you start bringing in people to work with you, you quickly know who's full of crap, you know. Oh, definitely.

Real work is building the beginning. I mean, just writing things down, who's going to do what. And just time and time again, I've just, you really do weed these people out. And really it's like, it's like, thank goodness I didn't get into this bad marriage with this person. And these are some of my closest friends I ever graduated. I graduated school with. Oh, sure. You know, this would have been a disaster.

But, you know, fast forward to today, realistically, Over the years, we were brewing beer and wine because I saw myself as a brewer. I mean, it's just the, you know, just the process and the science of it and then the parts that you bring into it was so fascinated to me. But realistically, the pandemic almost discouraged me from doing it any further because everything was just shutting down around me. And the change in the consumption of beer and wine altogether because of the more health, of folks, or the kids now, they're not looking at these intricate drinks anymore. They're looking at spirits, stuff that they were going to mess up or seltzers were a big thing before that.

But I still want to pursue that. We want to add it to our business model eventually. But it's just more intricate and it's more regulation. It's just, you know, just getting this business off the ground was a challenge. It was a lot. But, you know, to go back a little bit. Yeah. If you say that your inspiration was Red Sonia, I'm going to lose my shit.

Love her. But he's always been into tinkering and doing things. And the story I like to tell people is when he got introduced to the concept of making your own beer, he was like, we should do it. It's going to be so much cheaper. We'll make our own beer at home. We'll drink our own beer. We won't have to go in and buy it. It's going to be so much cheaper.

I looked at him and I go, I don't think it's going to be what you think it's going to be. But, okay, let's try it. It was not. Yeah. It's a very expensive hobby. Very expensive. And then you add wine making to that or meat making to that. That's also another expensive hobby.

And so shortly after that, about five years after that, he's like, did you know that you can roast your own coffee on a popcorn popper? and I was like, here we go again. And he's like, it's going to be so much our own coffee and we don't have to go at Starbucks anymore. We will have it here at home. He's like, there's this place. I can get this little kit. It comes with the popcorn popper and some green beans.

I'm like, I don't think it's going to work. It's not going to be cheaper. And, you know, six years later. And it was so, not that you're hearing. What I'm kind of hearing is that it sounds like

you started up I'm I I'm hearing that you start the money that you were spending on your hobby of roasting your own coffee beans kind of in the same way that

friends of mine and I at one point thought you know maybe we should just start a Warhammer 40,000 store. Am I am I getting to me? Cool. But you're actually making, you know, a success of it.

Yeah. Yay. Consistency is key with anything. You're going to do it. Go in all the way. And don't look back. You know, document your failure. Revel in the success, but keep going. Yeah. We've always gone into it with the frame of mind of, you know, just go with the flow, you know, because we're going to about, we're bound to forget something, something's bound to break, something's bound to go wrong,

how can we make it work, we're already committed. Okay, we didn't make that much money on this. It's a marketing. We are here to market, you know, get our name out there, get our product out there, even though this day was a crap shoot. Because, well, one, we forgot, you know, the pop-up tent, two, we've run at, we at, we out of ice, you know, three, oh, there's the health inspector. Do we have the paperwork? No, where's the paperwork? Where's the paperwork? Um, but, you know, it's just, you know, being able to

just, you know, go with the flow and improvise and just stick to it. Be determined. If this is something that you want to pursue, if this is the dream that you want to have, you need to stick to your guns. Otherwise, it's going to fizzle out and you're going to be like, okay, that was a lot of work for nothing. Right. So I want to come back to your guys's origin, as it were, because I think it's a really interesting piece there because you got started just before pandemic, if I'm reading the timeline correctly. Nobody knew that was coming, except for people who were watching international news, and even them, they didn't know it was coming, except for maybe like six weeks. ahead of time, right? You guys, obviously, to start a business, you probably have a much

longer-term plan. What happened to those original plans when faced with... So this is where that whole improvised and go with the flow comes into effect. So at the time, I was working at UC Davis. In the Student Health Center, I was there purchasing material management specialist. the very big fancy title for saying I ordered the medical supplies and helped out with contracting and things like that. So I kind of had an inkling of things weren't looking very good ahead of time going in before Chinese New Year. And so I was already feeling the stress.

We were already kind of playing around with, you know, roasting, doing this. Maybe we should, you know, start a business. This sounds like fun. we were kind of up in the air and then at the same time I'm always posting on our personal Facebook page about what we're

up to or what he's doing and going back in history about God almost 20 years ago now. For He did anger. Yeah. Yeah. We used to work in a tea shop called Tina's tea. It was in Midtown

on K between 23rd and 24th and we worked there for two years, three years, three years. And that was one of the best jobs we ever had. Yeah. Best bosses. Yeah. Amazing.

Outside of a blockbuster for me. I love that. My bet. Have Conan the Destroyer on repeat. Yeah. No kidding. I mean, just totally great people. We enjoyed it.

They unfortunately had to close the business, but they were very employed in children of our lives, really introduced us to T. She had over 400. Yeah. blends of tea. I mean, it was this giant wall of tea you would walk into. Yeah, it was a huge inspiration. And we kept in touch with them as they went about their lives.

And so, Hina saw that I was posting at Steve roasting coffee. And we were talking about the coffee. And she's like, finally she was like, what are you guys doing? And we're like, oh, we're trying to, you know, get into a business. And we thought about, you know, maybe selling coffee. And she's like, stop. now she is a British and she has that very much British

mentality attitude of no nonsense and straight to the point and so she's like what the hell are you doing she's like you guys know tea start telling tea then then add coffee she's not a coffee drinker just like then add coffee and so that's kind of where things started

Yeah, because at the same time, you know, I didn't know I was going to be employed with the state. So I looked at Lily. I was like, you know, this is kind of now or never, you know, I'm at home, I'm teleworking. They're talking about furloughs and this and this and we're not going to have the budget. And I'm not, I'm still getting used to working in a, a environment where your job is super secure, like working for the state. but I have that private sector mentality of when I wake up, I could get a call saying, hey,

don't bother coming in today. You're fired. I've been fired for not smiling on a job. So I know what it's like to get there, drive all this way and say, hey, your service is no longer needed. And I thought that day was coming.

So I'm like, let's do it. Let's figure out what we need. And with the advent of the internet, you know, we could do this now. All the research is right here at our fingertips. I popped open YouTube.

How do we start a business? in California and I've got tons of information. And of course, you know, I don't trust everything I look at and read. I went to go verify it with, you know, friends and family. And we had all kinds of support pour in. Yeah. You know, business license. Yeah.

And Dean and Gert were very instrumental. And I mean, super instrumental. Yeah. They really were like put together a business plan sent to us. We're going to mentor you guys. We're going to, you know, hopefully do it in the right direction. You know, we're here as resource. anything you need, you know, let us know. We want to see you succeed. And so that literally

went half, six months from beginning to actually having the business license. That's how quick everything went. And then we went live with the website October 31st, 2020. So I mean, it was less than a year. Wow. Yeah, and so we were strictly online for all of that year. And we were fortunate enough that Hina and Gert were like, you know, these are our resources from the T's that we used to order. This is our business list. You're going to get customers from that because it's been, at that point, it had been like 10, 15 years. 13 years.

Yeah. And it was a list of 700 people with complete with email addresses and phone numbers. Yeah. Wow. She's like, just put out on email saying, you know, nice. Carrying he has teas. A lot of these customers are going to order because they've missed the tea.

Right. The quality of the tea, you kind of can't really find anything around here like that. And so that's what our first customers worked for. Yeah, because of the first, I think out of 700, probably two to 300 people responded. Like, I remember YouTube. Wow. Because they were our old customers. So at the T bar, the way it was modeled is kind of like a similar to a bar.

Except it's just straight up tea for retail. But behind the register was a huge wall of 400 different T's in jobs. Similar to what we have at the shop now. Yeah. It's where the inspiration comes. But it was even larger. But it was larger and it was lit by a backlight. So, I mean, it really very clean lines, very eye-opening, very serene.

And we were there all the time because that was what our jobs were. Because I quit my student assistant position because Hina offered me. She said, I need somebody to work here at night. And the job's yours, but I need you here seven days a week every night. I go, that's fine because she was going to pay me more. Yeah, and she was going back to school. So it was a way to kind of help out and support that. And she's like, all you have to do is just, you know, be the closer.

So, you know, I don't have to worry about the girls that are working. They have to work late because, you know, it gets, the bars are around there. It gets rowdy. And she was like, I'd rather make sure that everybody's safe. You just have to do your homework, drink tea, get to know the tea, get to know the customers. And then that's kind of what we did. I drank 400 teas. Yep.

And so. I don't think all at once, Ed. No. Oh, okay. Sometimes. I got a lot of work that. I'll tell you that. In those three years, we've met a lot of people and made a lot of friends that were still in contact with.

So a lot of people knew us or recognized us as the face of Hina's. In our logo, we have the Hina's T logo incorporated there as like an homage to hurt the business. And people recognize it even now. They're like, wait a minute. I know that. I know that. that looks familiar. And so they come into the shop and like, is this heinous tea?

I go, no, but that is the logo. And she's like, oh, my God, I remember you. Right. We still get quite a, you know, a few following that, that remember us. And they recognize the logo. We did everything in our power just to, you know, to bring that, that logo and the, and look and feel of her shop back to ours. You guys would have loved it, too.

It was a great space. It was such a when it closed. Yeah, and that's why, like, on the menu, you'll notice that our Thai tea is Heena's Thai because it is her, her recipe, her father's recipe for Thai that we make from scratch, just like she used to. And so that's a way of, you know, keeping that going. Yeah. Yeah.

So, like, so for the first six months, we were mainly online, and then we really quickly learned that, okay, we need to get out there and do some markets and figure out, you know, how to get more customers because the online. And we're going to get us so far. And then we started doing a little pop-up events. Yeah, it started to get weird. I mean, it got so. So our first pop-up was at an art gallery.

This guy was eccentric as all get-out. I think he told you it was free if we didn't make any money. but we made like 50 bucks that day. Yeah. And so, which is really nothing. I mean, right. He goes, well, you guys made money. I'm like, yeah, but it wasn't a lot.

He goes, well, it's $25. I told Lily, you know what? Just pay him. Yeah. I said from now on, when we show up, I don't care if we make money or not, pay the the end. I don't want to have this kind of situation. We show up.

He provides a space. We provide the money. Yeah. Keeps it cut and dry. Great relationship after that, because then it flipped. because he knew we were going to show up all the time. We were going to pay without questions. And then he started giving us like almost perforction treatment.

Yeah. But I mean, that led the door to getting to know other vendors and getting connected to other events to other markets and then slowly expanding. And at the time, you were still working three days a week? No, they actually forced me. to telework full time because I was going to the office full time. Coming home, working on the website, getting stuff packaged, roast it, so and so forth. And then I got in trouble at work.

Well, let me back up. They had been trying to get me to go home for safety reasons since the start of the pandemic. I told them, look, if I go home, who's going to package up all these laptops and ship them out to people who need to go home from the office? Somebody's got to do this work. And they finally nailed us because I didn't have a mask on. in the office and neither did any of my other guys. It was just three of us. And we got so much work done in there because it was all. We had the whole building to ourselves. Right. Everything done.

What we didn't know was the director was in there. And the three of us were in the elevator without our masks on. And she, the doors opened. She looked at us smiled and said, I'll take the next one. And then the next day, we had an hour and a half long call. Yeah. Mask wearing and this and this. And I'm like, won't happen again. I'll be teleworking full time now. Right. Right. Yeah.

So when I started teleworking, we, it just, all it made me do is just really think, okay, I need to really concentrate on this business. I still got my work done from a job. But if they didn't have any assignments for me, I got to researching, building the website, and just expanding on some of the contacts that we were getting. And Lily was able to talk to more. organizers about other areas we could pop up in and just either market or something. So at the time, I was still going in working full time because I was considered essential personnel.

So I was working five days a week. And then on the weekends, we were doing the markets and just getting our name out there. And then messaging people on Instagram who are running events, just trying to be as easy. engaging as possible because it's tough when you don't have a space. Yeah, I bet. And a lot of our challenges at the beginning was we only did packages. We didn't even serve drinks. Okay.

And so we just did packages and we had a lot of informational material out there. Yeah, we did some samples. We started doing samples later, but then it opened up another challenge. Okay, if we're here and everyone's, we have some people that are interested, but they're not pulling the trigger. Why? Right. but they're not tasting it.

So we started with, we did samples of tea and then we did samples. We did pour over. We started doing, I learned to do pour over coffee over the week. Her parents are great guinea pigs, by the way. So I did pour over coffee over the week. I'm like, okay, well, this can work. We don't need much. But how do we get power?

So the art director, he ran a long 100 foot extension cord out the back of the, the, hit the gallery and we were able to plug in our equipment in there. And that's when I quickly became an electrician because I was pop and breakers. You will wear many hats when you become a business owner. I'll tell you. Yeah. And we've learned from like, you know, doing one event to another event, one of the issues that we had were like we didn't get, people weren't coming up to the table to look at

what we were offering. And we couldn't figure out for the longest time until finally. Steve's like, stay right here. I'll be back. I'm going to go mingle. Went around talking to different folks asking them, why aren't, you know, what's preventing you from coming to the table and exploring? Well, it turns out that, you know,

our package tea looks like package weed. Yeah, look like marijuana. All the seeds and stems, yeah. Yeah. Is this tea and coffee for dogs? And, you know, don't get me wrong. This is marketing. Okay, why do you think that? That was the first question of my pop. What made you think that?

And, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, make you feel stupid or anything. I get that. But I spend a lot of money on this packaging for you to think it's for dogs and cats and everything. I need to know why. Oh, because of the paw print. And so her sisters do a lot of the designing of our artwork and how the labels look on the packages. They took that feedback and they went back to the drawing board with it. Literally.

Quite a few times. Yeah. So that's another way that they're invested with like sweat equity, not emotional. They really have put their signature into how the look of the business is. My middle sister went to school for studio art. So she has a background in art. Our coffee labels that are mainly the blends, but we have a couple that are single origins. they have they're actually painted so she paints them and they're the the pick their paintings of the dogs

and then my little sister scans them sizes and down to fit on the label and then my little sister has a background in library science she has a master's in library science but she's killer in graphic design doesn't want to do it for a living right it's a hobby for her sure but she's very passionate about the way it looks, it has to, the alignment. If I make a flyer, I have to run it by her.

That's why I took her and I tell people she's the boss. If she looks at it and the alignment's off just a little bit, she's like, Lily, you can't print this. You need to send them to me. And then I can review it. I'm like,

I'm sorry, boss. It doesn't matter how business she is. It needs to go through her first. And so how they got involved was they both technically lost their jobs. they were put on leave during the pandemic. So I looked at the two of them. I go, well, if you're living here, you work for me now. And so this is like, well, tell us exactly what you're in.

No, no, no, no, I'm the client. This is, I want a steampunk theme using the dogs. Go and create some images and I will approve which ones I like. That's how this relationship's going to work. You have complete creative control. I don't think on the left side of my brain, I told them. Right. That's very little times I do.

This is your feel. You guys create. I will come in and approve and that's what's going to go on there. You know, and I will not, you know, the only questions all happen is at the beginning, but otherwise I'm not picking up easily entertained. So that's what they did. I want to follow up on the steampunk thing because I noticed there's gears everywhere. There's old-timey Victrola radios and stuff like that.

What drew you to that aesthetic in terms of pairing it with coffee? I'm going to get into the dog thing in a bit, but what drew you to the steampug? I mean, obviously you're a nerd. I can tell by your shirt. You quoted Conan when we first started talking. You complimented my X-wing and Mandalorian jacket. So it's obviously you're a nerd, but what drew you to the steampunk specifically? A lot of animation from Japan and some old-school animation from even the Western civilization.

So if you go back, I started getting an anime when I worked for Blockbuster. technically it was way before that but I didn't hope it was sure I took a video home I think my first one was Geiver this was deemed Japanese I remember Geiver because Mark Hamill was a roach at the end of it

I don't know if you remember that movie he got turned into a roach in the movie so I'm like oh that's that they made a cartoon out of this so I took at home watched it their stabbing's beheadings they're cussing in the moon like wait a minute this is a cartoon I've never seen this

before I was up till 5 a.m. watching anime from, you know, and this was all cassette. So you had to actually roll through this stuff. Right. And rewinding it, fast-warning it, and if you just look at how they did the

artwork and the animation back then, they actually had to hand draw every single scene. Right. It's so, if you watch shows like Akira, um, uh, uh, Robotech, or McCross is what they

called it. It's so interesting and I'm I'm a Transformers fan too sure we can see how the gears and the machines move and they're drawing this stuff right by frame it's insane and it's beautiful work and I you know I do love a good Clint Eastwood Western but my favorite Western is Tombstone that was one of my favorites and the pale horse was another one okay yeah pale rider pale rider pale rider sorry yeah Clint Eastwood pale horse was a quote from Tombstone yeah yeah Yes. Yeah.

I'm not much into the Western, but I like the feel of it because it goes into, you know, a lot of Japanese tradition, like the samurai. They have that same similarities like the East versus West. It was always a cowboy versus a samurai or something like that. And I thought it was cool. I'm going to sit back and just let you and Ed Fawn for a little while because he's done so many episodes on like everything that you just talked about. Yeah.

So my my the fact that my connection is so spotty right now is is physically hurting me. Because you're you're saying you're saying so much stuff that I'm like oh my God. Yes. Um, yeah, I'm I'm I'm on the on the on the end of my not so great internet connection here. I'm I'm just like yes go go go. Alan Ginsberg listening to Howl being performed the first time at the back of the theater.

Yes, all of that. Amazing. 100% ditto. So yeah. I think what was the other show, Wild Wild West? And while, oh yeah, well, that's,

and that gets to the steampunk connection. Wild Wild Wild West, even when it was a TV series in the 60s, they really played it up for the movie. But, Yeah, even in the 1960s, the idea of taking a Western and kind of turning it into a Bond film is kind of one of the beginnings of the steampunk kind of thing. So that makes sense. While I have the conch, as it were, I want to ask.

So it sounds from what you've said that you're both also still holding down full-time other, like, quote-unquote day jobs. Are you, number one? And if you are, okay, how do you balance that with all of the plate spinning and juggling of fragile objects that's involved in trying to keep the business running? So a lot of little sleep. So I'm extremely grateful, very lucky that he let me quit my job, what, two years ago, three years ago. I thought was 2020. No. So,

2021. 2021, 2021, 2021, 2020. One of those two days. The pandemic really put a lot of stress in the job that I was doing. One thing that people don't realize

when it comes to UC Davis main campus is that there are no hospitals that treat people. It's all animal veterinary that research. The only hospital or the only place that actually treats human on the main campus is student health and occupational health. So during the pandemic, the torch went to student health as the main hospital for campus. So a lot of the buying of equipment and supplies

contracting was funneled through us to be able to provide for that campus. and making sure we had all of the resources. So my department was a department of three, and it went from a department of three to a department of one. So it was me on my own for a good, almost six to eight months, because I had my counterpart that did my other half of my job immediately. So that really put a big, big stress on me. So I turned to him and I said,

I'm done. I'm done. I want to do this full time. I don't want to get up at like four o'clock in the morning to be over there by seven to have to, you know, sit through all of these meetings that aren't productive, having to deal with things that, you know, I have no business dealing with. I know what my capacities are. I consider myself, you know, pretty handy and being able to, you know, fake it till I make it when I come to a lot of stuff. But I know where my boundaries are. are and they're pushing me and trying to put me in boundaries that are not in my field because I'm a nice person and because I can keep the peace in a meeting. And that's not right. That's not fair. Well, the problem, too, is she suffered the same problem I have at my job. Or anybody who has it. If you're good at your job, the reward is more work.

Right. They really want to give you more. Yeah. You know, they'll throw some scraps at you. You know, maybe, hey, here's a good job Starbucks card. Right. Yeah, they did that to me once. They gave me a $20 Starbucks card and a plaque that says,

hey, you're a employee of the year. But I'm like... Well, one month I got a paycheck that was $300. It was a clerical error. It was supposed to be like a thank you on top of my regular paycheck. But it was also like Thanksgiving. And I'm like, this isn't going to work, people. What's going on?

Yeah. It was taxed at 30% too. Yeah. So that like on top of, of everything. I was like, you know what, I'm just, I'm done it. This is hilarious at this point. So we planned it out and Steve was like, stay until December. That way, you know, we start the year fresh and just we can hit the ground running. And I think, if I remember right, that year, we did more pop-ups. Yeah. And more events than we've ever done. I mean, we were doing

multiple like one in the morning and one in the evening and then one on Sunday. We were doing big events. We did Foodie Land when they first, when it first came to Calixpo. And it was nuts. But at the same time, it really got us out there and really got us more traction, more business. You know what's funny is our paid jobs would have killed us because I started having, before we even started a business,

our desk jobs was giving us high blood pressure. We were gaining weight, stress. And one of my coworkers when she passed away, sweet lady too, she passed away doing the job. And I looked at him and was like, that's not going to be us. We can't live like that. Every day going to the same job back and forth.

And then again, the reward for working hard and having a great work ethic is more work. Yeah. And maybe nice flowers at your funeral. Yeah, exactly. Oh, they were such a good employee. They were here every day. No, no, no, no. So I, you know, for the full 14 years I've been there, I had a plan to get out at some point. Now I have that goal, which is six years from now. I'll have 20 years with the state. I want the medical benefit of coverage. Yeah. The protection is there. I'll figure out the income later. That part can come easy because once again, once you start your business and you're consistent and you have a plan, you're going to amass allies. who want to join the cause. Yeah, I want to support you. So right now, currently with the shop, I'm there during the week by myself.

And then on Saturday and Sundays, he takes over with my sisters. They alternate to give me one or two days off, depending on how crazy it is. My little sister, she's the librarian. She works as a librarian, resource librarian for consummess. and she part-time there

and then she also is the archivist at Sack City and she's part-time there. So she's got Thursdays and Fridays off and so she comes and helps out in the shop those days. Plus, my office is like maybe five blocks down the street. So a co-worker leaves his scooter at work so I just hop on the scooter and head down if she needs help. I'm also exempt.

So no matter what, they can call me around the clock even right now. But the perk is, if I need to go do an appointment, you can get that time. Yeah. I just have to work after hours, which sometimes I think. Yeah. So that's the only way this works. Up until 2024, I had a boss that said, I don't care what you do as long as you get

your work done. If I call you, just answer the phone. If I look at the ticket count and yours is done, I don't care what you do. Just if, and I know you have, I also handle VIPs. That was my number one job when I. got there. Whenever the VIPs contact me, I've always got my laptop with me. I've break, pull aside and get whatever they need.

And they know that I run a business. You test me because they have to be fair. And I totally get it. So I make sure that during the work hours, I'm supposed to be at the office or at home teleworking, I don't, nobody sees me at that shop. Right. But if I have to break away for an appointment and I just have to. to be there, that's not a problem. Right. You can like block that part of your schedule out kind of

thing. Exactly. And I have such a good work ethic and I've known these people for 14 plus years. They kind of just, you know, as long as I'm not, what's the word, taking advantage. Yeah. Abusing, not taking, yeah. Abusing the process. Right. They have no problem with me. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, his coworkers are super supportive. If I, if they come in for coffee and I need help, they'll jump in and help however they can. Yeah. Oh, that's neat. Yeah.

Well, they like free coffee too. They work for free coffee. Yeah. I lost one of the, so I did the Home and Garden show recently, and I lost one of the kids to, she had to go to attract me because I have some kids that we pay to help out every down again. Yeah.

I call one of my coworkers, think Sunday morning, an hour before I had to be at the Cal Expo. I go, hey, you're late. You're supposed to be at my house so we can go. He goes, what? I'll be right there. of Jesus, I don't know what was going on, but he showed up. I mean, he figured it out halfway here that I was messing with him.

But I go, great. I'm glad you're here. So we went to the State Fair or the Home of Guard show. I said, I need you to drink all 10 of these teas. And he goes, okay, I go, there's donuts and everything in the curtain because they provide, you know, some refreshments for the vendors. Sure. And I woke him up.

And he goes, okay, I'm awake. What do you need me to do? Sell tea. And he worked his butt off. Oh, I bet. Oh my goodness. He sold three times more than I did the day before. Just when people, and then all I had to do was give him tea and coffee for that day. And then I went to total wine, grabbed him a six pack of beer, whatever he wanted.

He was like, you help moving. He goes, that was actually fun. Let me know when you want me for the state fair. He's like, as long as I don't have to make drinks. Oh, that's great. Yeah. It sounds very much like you guys have cultivated a tremendous amount of goodwill. amongst literally everybody you guys have ever met, it sounds like. How did you, is that just a thing that is that the one thing you can't teach?

Is that just something that comes naturally to y'all? Or is it a deliberate effort? Or obviously it doesn't have to be a false binary there. But I mean, where is it on that spectrum? I think it's all of the above. Yeah. I mean, we've always been, or at least, I mean, I've always tried and be the, of the, you know, the mentality of treat people like you want to be treated, you know, help others out.

And that's the approach that we've taken to this business. You know, I tell people, you know, if, for example, this past couple of days, another small business in Old Tak, it's a Sunshine Collective. they host many other small businesses and vendors. There's going to be a, I think like a spring market that they're doing every Sunday coming up with the district, but they're managing the vendors. And one of the vendors that they have there, he roast his own coffee. And so she made the effort to come over and talk to me and say, I know you guys do your own coffee. I want to be respectful. we're going to have him.

We have him in our shop, but he's also going to set up as one of the vendors for this event. I just want to make sure it's okay with you. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, hang on. I'm totally fine with setting up because this is his business that he's trying to run.

You know, and I'm all about trying to support anybody else that's trying to, you know, get a business going, get started. My response to you is, let me know how I can help. You know, any way that I can help to make this event successful, let me know because this event is going to draw people. And if he's only sampling coffee, well, send him my way. Or, hey, do you want to set up a hot chocolate stand so that we can support in that way?

Or do you want us to set up and we can use his coffee in the beverages instead of our coffee? because that's one way to showcase his coffee. Instead of him just, oh, you know, have a sample. Well, have a sample, but hey, they're serving it right there. You can try it as mocha. And she was just like, are you, are you serious? I'm like, yeah. Why am I going to stand in somebody else's way

when they're trying to get ahead and trying to build something for themselves? That would be selfish on my part. And that's not right. We've been blessed with many things and many people to help lift us and lift our business. Why am I going to turn around and, you know, cap somebody at the knees? No. You get what you put in.

Exactly. You know how singularly unique that is, though, right? Like, you are aware of how it's, I keep the phrase it keeps running through my head is, you're doing capitalism either way more right than anyone else or you're getting it completely wrong. There is no middle ground there. But like, that is, that is, I've never heard somebody be like, No, of course we want more people doing the exact thing that we do.

Because, I mean, talk about confidence in your product, but also, holy shit, you're exporting goodwill in all kinds of ways. And like you said, you want, like you don't see that as, you don't see it as a scarcity. I see it as competition. I see this community. And that's one thing I tell people too. If you're coming to me and you're asking about a product and I don't carry it, but I know who does, I will send you to who does.

because I want to make sure that my customer is getting what they're looking for. And also another small business is getting the support that they need. You know, if I can't provide a resource, why am I going to hoard that information and let you go out and flounder when I can go, hey, you know, I don't carry this, but I know who does. It's the other thing, too, I recommended you to another coffee vendor. You go over there, maybe their coffee doesn't suit your needs. Right. come back. Hey, I didn't particularly was fond of their coffee. Can you make me one? Yeah, no problem. They still got a sale.

Right. It's up to them to them to prove themselves. I sent them. And they know the other coffee vendor know I sent them. So they came back and I make them a drink. I like yours better. So I'll come here. Thanks for the recommendation. But I think I'm going to stick to this. Yeah. You know, or I had one of our vendor friends. He roast coffee. And he was awaiting one of his coffee roasters. but he didn't have a place to roast because the place he went to shut down. I let him come over here to use my roaster, praying him how to use it, said, okay, here you go. You can always come over, let me know. And he wanted to pay for us. I was like, nah, just get it out there. This is a struggle.

Months later, his house burned down. And he lost his roaster and everything. And I was like, oh, my God, you need to come over here and rose? And that worked out for a while. So he's thriving now. He's got a shop running. And he's doing well. But because I helped him, wherever he vended, he said he would tell those organizers,

I can't do it, but I know a guy that will. And you will recommend me. Capitalism doesn't have to crush each other. Right. We can network together. Yeah. And I learned that because one of our first events that we did with the creative space, they did a caffeine collective.

Yeah, that was fun. That was a fun event. It was all coffee and tea vendors. we all got together and we vended all our drinks and packages. Yeah, and we got to meet other people that were small. We were buying from each other. Yeah, buying from each other. I didn't know you did that.

Yeah, you know. And share products, share experiences. And it was just very unique to see and talk and meet with other people that were in the same situation that we were. We're actually exchanging ideas. And the cool thing I loved about that event was the enthusiast. the customers because they went around to every single coffee vendor and sampled every and made everybody nervous because we yeah coffee is this guy going to say this sucks right

sure enough he was he had a favorable opinion of everybody he loved all the coffee it was just a very fun event everybody got along we networked together you know because we're all our businesses even though we all roast coffee and we we do the same thing we're completely different because realistically, I tell people we're a tea bar first or a coffee second. Yeah. Yeah. So we started off with tea. Right.

And coffee came as a compliment. It's just taken on a life of its own. And another example of, you know, being a part of a community, that same event, we met, his name is Donovan. He owns Anchor and Tree on P.N. 16th. He hadn't started his business, but he, Deliberty came to that event to introduce himself to everybody and say, hey, I'm starting in my business.

This is where I'm going. This is what I'm going to be roasting in. And I want to get to meet other coffee people so that we can set up some sort of community and we can help each other, you know, any way that you can. And he's been great. He's sent a lot of business our way. But also he introduced us to our current roaster, which is the bellwether. And it's an all-electric roaster.

and that was a very big pivotal point for us. At that point, we'd been roasting on a Mill City propane roaster is a one kilogram. So we were roasting very small batches. And Steve was out in front of the roaster late at night, long hours to be able to fulfill the demand that we have for coffee. Yeah, right. It was growing. With this guy, we're able to roast up to 44 pounds. in one single session.

It's all computer brain automated. You just plug and play and it just will weigh out the batches automatically roasted to whatever level we ask it to roast,

cool it, dump it, way out the next rinse and eat. Yeah, so the evolution of that was we started with the popcorn popper. Right. Realistically, I have no problem going to people ask that money.

No. So I go to my co-coons. workers like hey guys i got a project i need uh 20 bucks for it i can easily get 20 bucks but i've also lived by that concept just to use everybody else's money before i use mine i said i need 20 bucks i'm trying to get a popcorn popper and some green coffee to practice and they all kicked in five bucks ten bucks here there right and as a reward they're the guinea pigs yeah of it so they were getting fresh roasted coffee for me in the morning and they would help for the project so i outgrew that popcorn popper and went to something called a bay more you guys can actually get one of these if you're

interested. It's like a little microwave shaped a dropletion. It was like a toaster happen. With a drum inside. Okay. Got one of those and we actually started the business on this thing. We did. But it takes an hour to roast half a pound of coffee in this thing. And then

it takes an hour to cool. Once we started the business and we were getting orders on the website for, I think our first, 10 pounds of coffee. I avoided the warranty with the way I was roasting on the store. Very quickly. Oh, wow. So quickly gathered the guys around.

I said, okay, guys, I need to upgrade and facts. We ain't got no money. We're in the middle of the pandemic. We ain't got no money. We're furloughed. I'm like, how am I to do? And then we got lucky one of my monitors. One of those monitors.

My gaming monitor, $1,800 monitor died on me. And I'm like, well, it's under warranty. Let's get a new. I wasn't expecting them to give me straight up cash back. I was like, this is the good Lord working the way it's supposed to be. I got my $1,800 back. I did some research and found one. It's called a Caldy New Wide 400 gram roaster in South Korea.

Completely within my budget, we took some funds from the business, and we were able to import it into the States pretty quick, too. This was before they started getting crowded at the docks. Yeah, this is. It came probably within a month for us ordering it. It was pretty quick. We were talking like June of 20? What was it?

No, this was probably, 20, 21, late 2021. That's how fast we're growing. Yeah. I get this thing. There's no instructions on this, by the way. There's no videos on YouTube about it.

There's like maybe two at a time. It's mainly the guy who built it doing his roast, but there's no talking. There's no, there's the noise of the roaster. And a graph showing you. You got to watch what he does step by step.

Wow. That's the only instructions you get. And it heated up on a camper stove. Yeah. So it can you, this camping snow I found, you can use butane tanks or you can use, um, an actual propane tank. So I bought the propane tank quick. Yeah. And, um, everything was going good that year until the churches started hitting me up. I don't know how they, uh, no, it was a, um, so there's a local coffee shop, uh, that's near us. They came to one of the pop-ups and they saw that we were there serving coffee. They ordered coffee from us and then we got to talking.

one of the brothers of that the owners of the coffee shop runs a youth group at a church so he started hitting me up for 15 pounds of coffee now mind you on this new coli 400 gram roaster i can only do 12 ounces at a time so not even a full pound yeah 15 pounds took me roughly seven hours yeah wow some late night and he was ordering regularly so yeah in my workshop i'm roasting next to an oven because I need an exhaust. I had to cut a hold of the screen and stick the tube through it. So if this, our house faces north and south, well, the sun goes east and west. Right.

So when it's the summertime, I'm sitting next to a camping stove at 400 degrees. Right. With the sun beaming down at my face. Right. During winters, it's 32 degrees with the window open and it's raining and wind. I had a space heater behind me hoping I didn't pop the breaker out there. and then I'm sitting next to a roaster trying to stay awake. Wow.

And I'm sitting there trying to convince our business mentors. I need a bigger guy. They're like, well, money doesn't grow on trees and we just can't hand out. I mean, they went after us. I'm like, okay, hold on time out. Yeah, they're like, no, you guys need to prove that you have grown enough to be able to upgrade. That's always been their big thing is you guys need to show on paper, show your profit and loss needs to show that you guys are at the point that you can upgrade, that you can take a step

up. You can absorb that cost and keep returning a profit. The thing is we had zero debt, but our expenses, because the pandemic and inflation, everything, our expenses were high and we were just, we barely crossed over the into the green, but we were always green. So they made a deal with us after about a month or two. Yeah. If you get your first wholesale account, we'll help you get your bigger roaster. But we want the roaster to be brand new. So I was like, perfect. I already know which model I want and where to get. And I just need to know the budget. So what they did was, I think he sold a stock because they were retiring anyway. And he was able to, they were able to actually fund the new roaster. It was like 15 grand. We paid for this thing because we had to get it

from Milwaukee. Yeah. Luckily, this company is awesome. The problem is when you get it, they expect you to have exhaust set up or they will not teach you how to use it. Oh, wow. And you need to have smoke detectors. That's the only two things they require.

And then you have to do a seasoning roast with them. Anything else voice the warranty. So I'm like, okay, one of our customers is actually an HVAC guy. We called him up. Oh, yeah, yeah. Hey, I need an exhaust. He goes, well, get the parts and I'll do it. So I had to do my own research, got the parks, came.

I think everything cost $700 to do it. Pretty cheap for HVAC. And coffee. Yeah. Oh, and some coffee at tea. So we got that set up. I did my season roast and we were able to fulfill our wholesale accounts and build on that roaster for the next three years. We were more than profitable.

And they were completely impressed with how they just couldn't believe the numbers they were pulling in. And we were both working. No, I was working. I'm still working full time. Yeah. But while I'm roasting coffee on this machine, I can work on my laptop and do what I need to do. Yeah, yeah. I can never hear anything in the background.

So I was like, oh, this is perfect. Yeah. Right. So, you just take advantage where you can. Luckily, I know how to use the tech. Yeah. Like with the current roaster that we have, we reserved it about two years in advance. Most two years in advance because we kept pushing it out because one of the requirements is you have to be in a commercial space in order to get.

it. So we didn't qualify to receive it. 20 grand. We didn't qualify because we, at the time, our permitting was a CFO, so it was a cottage permit. And around that same time, we just kept running into different people and I kept seeing the things for the calling all dreamers, which, if you're not familiar with that is a competition that the downtown Sacramento partnership puts together along with the city of Sacramento every year

to bring more businesses to downtown. And so you submit your business plan, you submit a video, and talk about your concept. And if you're picked, you go through a selection

process of it goes from five, from 10 to five, and then from five, you get one, two, three, four. Okay. And so we finally, everything just kind of lined up for us to submit our application. We had like less than a week because I was like, let's do it. Yeah, prior to that, we actually hired someone. He's a business strategist. I met him through a real estate agent because we were looking for spaces.

It was time to grow. I had enough of running our business from home. I told her, we need a warehouse or something. Sure. And we spent about a year looking and we found a place in the Tomas, but they were concerned about the noise from the roaster and the smell. So that place fell through. You know, it's just hard to find affordable places for a small business.

Yes. Either you're taking on debt or you have money ahead of time, which wasn't either. And so we found that we got connected to a business strategist. And so, yeah, we were able to kind of basically outline what our ideas were what we wanted to do and just going back and forth, talking it out with him, looking at the pros and the cons, and seeing what best way to kind of shape what we had envisioned and put it on paper to translate it and being able to present it. So we were selected into the top 10. then we went through a whole another revision of the business plan, another video presenting our concept, and then we were selected into the top five.

And then from there, we had to do a Shark Tank style presentation in front of a committee and present. Two committees, really. Yeah. There was a practice run, and then the final, and then present our business concept to them. And then from there, we actually won. which that's where the $20,000 from the roaster came from.

So out of pocket for that roaster, we only spent $2,500. About $2,500, yeah. Yeah. So like a little over 10%. Yeah. And what really propelled us in that competition was we took a risk a month and a half before the end of the competition. And signed a lease.

And we were like, I don't know where this money's coming from. But we'll figure it out. It's all to be done. It'll work out. because realistically it was an opportunity that came up because I've been looking at this building during the whole five years. Two years I was looking at this building. It was the Haywood building that we're in now. Okay.

It was actually a bigger space and I had nothing but vision for this place. I'm like, man, we could do so much. For some reason, we've always been like really drawn to Old Sacramento. I think it's just that, that term of like it's history, but at the same time, it's right on the edge of now, the president and the future. And that's one of the things that we really used in our pitch to them is, you know, we're choosing old Sacramento because it's legacy. It's the past. It represents what we were and who we are now. And it's connecting us. It's a, it's literally, it's a bridge. It's literally, it's a bridge that connects the old to the new, the new being the doco, being golden one center.

Right. Right. So, it's the future of where Sacramento is going. So it's the past. to the present and the future. And that's what we see our business being, is being legacy, being a place that you can come, relax, enjoy,

but we can still be fun and innovative and show you that coffee and tea, they don't have to be boring, but they also don't have to be expensive. Yeah, and on top of that, we had to remind them that, you know,

her and I, we grew up in Sacramento. We haven't, you know, we've been everywhere. I've never left Sacramento since we laid down roots here. And Old Sacramento used to be a place that I would sneak off on a skateboard and come down over that river on the bike trail to the markets and go to Abangeline.

All these places that used to be there that are now closed. I go, this place could be so much more if the focus was put back into it and the city actually just got out of the way and let business open and grow. And I sold them, you know, remember Thursday night markets where you would go under that overpass and you would just. open markets. Yeah. The place where Chondos, formerly Solomons, it was, I forget what the place,

it might have been Solomons, actually, where it was the, you went and go, to go buy used records and CDs. Oh, yeah, yeah. That place all the time, getting first cassettes, and then upgrading my entire library to CD, you know, I would go there and just find so many unique, I listen to a lot of unique music, by the way.

So I'm all over the place of music. Yeah. It can be classical one day rap, Hard Rock. I'm all over the place. Hey there, Geek Timers. It's Damien. As per the usual, we got so enraptured with the story of our guests that we forgot to break the episode up into two pieces. So we just ran through it for two straight hours. So this is me telling you right now. This is the stopping point for the first episode of this interview. And next week, you will get to hear part two of it. It was

a lot of fun talking to these folks. Stephen and Lily were terrific guests and we're really, really glad to be able to have them on our show. Once again, if you want to go have some really amazing coffee, go down to 105 Second Street in Old Sacramento. It's Pitador Brews, Pitador, like Pit bull plus Labrador. Pitador Brews. It's some amazing coffee. They put a lot of thought into it. And again, the decor and the entire ambiance of the place is just, it exudes a lot of joy in a quirky, quirky way. So find yourself down there, get yourself some coffee. As always, you can find Ed and myself doing a geek history of time on the Apple podcast app, the Amazon podcast app, or on Spotify, as well as geekhistorytime.com. Don't tell them. You don't need to put the

WWWN. It just tickles me that he keeps thinking that we're in the early 2000s. You can find me at the Comedy Spot in Sacramento on the first Friday of every month. I don't quite know when this will drop. So just first Friday of every month with capital punishment, capital with an O. Just go to sackcomedy spot.com. Click on tickets and calendars and get your ticket there. And you could probably find Ed and myself at, pitador bruise at some point in the near future, which is again at 1005 Second Street in Old Sacramento.

So for a geek history of time, Ed Blaylock is on assignment. I'm Damian Harmony, and thanks again to Lily and Stephen Freeman for guesting with us this week. Look forward to part two of the interview next week. Oh, and as always, keep rolling 20s.