A Geek History of Time - Episode 391 - Iceman and Intersectionality with Special Guest Omar Holmon of Black Nerd Problems

Episode Date: October 23, 2026

You know, the thing is, you have reached farther for less good. To be blunt, the money in tabletop games isn't great. We have to wind up with the Church of England because obvi, I'll start. I mean, you're here to be the expert, but in the pale. That one oddly doesn't make me angry. Because, you know, who's the boss? You know what? I'm going to keep my head down inoffensive as I can to everybody possible.

And that's it. You want to fight? I'm going to dry hump your leg until we're friends. Of course, reminded me of that one woman that I went on a single date with who said, you know, the downside about my job is that we don't show kids drowning anymore. History of time. Where we connect nerdering to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock.

I'm a world history teacher here in Northern California. And I had occasion a couple of days this week. it turned out to have to deal with the county permit office. We're working on a project on our house. And it requires us to submit things to be inspected and get a permit for. And I had been to the county permit office several weeks ago and got the forms that I understood I needed to fill out. Filled them out, went back the other day, only to be told. Oh, they didn't tell you.

No, you need to do all of that applying online. Okay, okay, fine. You know, where, you know, how do I get to the application online? What do I do? They were very helpful. The person I dealt with was wonderful. Pointed out, okay, here's where you need to go. This is what you do.

Gave me the instructions. I'm like, okay, awesome. I got home, went to the website, and immediately wanted to throw my wooden shoes into the millworks. because because this website is very clearly intended and this makes sense

my wife pointed this out you know the majority of the people who are applying for permits are professionals who do this all the time I am an owner-builder. I don't know nothing about this and I got so much

had because the interface, number one, the interface is not user-friendly. And then on top of that, the website asked me a bunch of fucking questions that the paper form didn't ask. And I'm like, I have no idea how to answer this shit. So I had to go back a second time in person to get all of the information. And then found out, oh, yeah, no, there's a couple of other forms you're also going to need to fill out and then scan. So I am I am now a dedicated Luddite like as my personal philosophy.

I now thoroughly believe we should smash the mill machines, the weaving machine. And I flirted very briefly with libertarianism because it's my goddamn house. Why do I need to do this in the first place? and then I went, no, no, I'm not an asshole. So, yeah. So that's been what I've had happened this week. How about you? Well, I'm Damien Harmony.

I am a U.S. history teacher up here in Northern California at the high school level. And I finally got to, and I can say that this is an evergreen thing to say because of how infrequently the group meets. I finally got to play D&D again with some buddies. It has been a while. It's been more than a season. And it's coming up on the end of the campaign. I still have a bit of the Grognard suspicion that we won't finish because that's how D&D sessions end.

They not with a bang, but with a whimper. But in this game, I'm very grateful that my DM believes in the rule of cool. I have a character that jumps around a lot. He was a swashbuckler. I re-skinned him a little bit when we switched to the 2024 rules. So he's now a thief. But he's also a rabbit. And so jumping up onto a chandelier is totally legit.

Swinging that chandelier and then cutting that chandelier so that in mid-swing, it lands on bad guys. That's some swash-buckling shit. It's hard to adjudicate in D&D. D&D is not a game where you can do stuff like that. But when you roll a Nat 20. No. Yes. And I rolled a Nat 20 on a skill that I had maxed out in all the different ways.

So I think it came out to being a 33. And landed the chandelier on all of the vampire spawn that were surrounding my barbarian friends. The whole of the chandelier landed right around my barbarian friend. So Buster Keaton effect. And I landed on his shoulders, and then I told him on his move. So it cost me all my movement, which is totally fair. Cost me all my actions, totally fair. Landed on his shoulders.

And I said, okay, well, I'm going to ride him. And I told him, turn around and go that way. And so on his move, I got to go. And then on my move, I had to spend half my movement to get down, which is totally fair. And so I fastball special. So which was really fun. and he ruled cooled it so it was really cool to see that

20 get honored and all that kind of stuff and just like so and then of course what was going through my head was I'm gonna swing from the chandelion. So it was a fun little sash so I rather enjoyed it yeah in my other game

my barbarian ended up putting on and I play a character who's deliberately stupid to the point where the group had has told me, Damien, so help us if you play a character dumber than you next time, we're kicking you out of the group. We need you to play somebody as smart as you are, if not smarter. I was like, fine, fine, fine.

I will on the next character. Well, we happen to find a circlet of intelligence, which automatically bumps your intelligence up to an 18. And everybody was like, your character wears this now. And I'm like, oh. That's a dick move. Come on. Like, don't you have a wizard.

Like, come on. Well, we don't. That's the thing. We have a sorcerer. He doesn't need intelligence. God, damn. We have a monk. He doesn't need intelligence.

We have another guy who said, I just remade a character and I want him to be dumb. So no. And I was like, fine. I will take it. Time for some character growth. And so I took a level in artificer. So he's a barbarian artificer.

Okay. He's going to be so. sub-optimized and he's going to do the cartography thing. So, I mean, it's just none of it's going to make any fucking sense. It's going to be fun. I'll enjoy playing. Yeah. All right. So, all right. Well, we got lucky enough. Last week was so much fun that he has agreed to come back. We got lucky enough that Omar Holman has rejoined us, again, the co-founder of Black Nerd Problems, which can be found on Black Nerd Problems.com. And, a Hugo Award winner from 2025

for Best Zine An all-around swell guy Brilliant fellow when it came to the juggernaut And he's got more in the tank When it comes to another one of my favorite characters Not in my top five of favorite characters But really in the top 10 Like he is

If my top five Is for NBA fans, right So like Because I'm right or die about LeBron I'm going to say that he's the best. I will say Jordan's number two. I will then say that you've got, you know, you've got Bill Russell, Grim Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilts Chamberlain as 3-4-5.

I would put, again, I'm a huge fan of Hakim Al-Juan, but he's going to be probably around nine. Actually, you know what? I probably would put Magic at number six. And then, anyway, Iceman would occupy the same space that Kobe would occupy for me. About number eight. Still top ten. Still top ten.

But, you know, and I'm talking best. I'm not talking favorites because my favorites are nowhere near the tops. My favorites are, you know, Mugsy Boggs, Jerome Kersey, Kevin Willis, Danny Manning. Like, real like B-list guys. but that's how it is. So my Kobe Bryant character would be Bobby Drake, Iceman. And Omar said that he's got some meat on the bone to talk about with Iceman, several bones to pick, to Ice Pick, if you will.

So Omar, welcome, welcome back. Thank you for joining us again. Thank you very me back. Yeah, absolutely. So Bobby Drake, the youngest of the X-Men when he first joined, The only one that didn't look human when he activated his powers to begin with. He just looked like a snowman. And then he got better at sculpting it.

But he still, I shielded up. But when he's not using his powers, he totally passes for human. But the youngest, the least successful with the ladies, for reasons we'll get into later. And also one of the more uniquely powered superheroes in Marvel, because he has the ability cryokinesis. He has the ability to manipulate ice. You have a lot of characters that can do that with fire. Some characters can do that with multiple elements.

And ice is kind of a part of their power package, but it's not a huge feature. But his is solely that. So he's always been an interesting character. And I grew up watching Spider-Man and his amazing friends. Oh, yeah. And that's Spidey Iceman. and they created Firestar for it. Yep.

Who ends up being in the New Warriors. So there's my obligatory mention. But I always loved Ice Man. I thought he was just, as my son said, that's going to be cool. So, Omar, what do you got for us for Ice Man today? I've always liked him because he was a class final as well. So I liked Ice Man as well growing up. And of all the things to learn about Iceman,

And the biggest thing that I cannot believe, he's an incredible, incredible accountant. He graduated with an account. He got a degree in accountant. Oh. An accounting. And he does the taxes for the ex-man. And he probably mentioned it recently, too. Like, oh, we need Bobby to do the tax.

And I, I know what happened, but I cannot, I know it's canon. I cannot wrap my brain around. I'm just like, no. Iceman. Okay. I love it. I love it. And business degree.

What income? Do they have to declare inheritance? Like there's all kinds of expenditures. Well, he's helping them write it off creatively. You can't write off a blackbird, but you can write off like, you know, maintenance done to the basketball court,

you know, so it opens to let the blackbird out. But like, you know, he's a money launderer. That's what he is. He's Ozark. He's out here doing Ozark things. Yeah. He's doing it for Emma Frost. He was doing it for Emma Frost and Kitty Pride because when they were doing their exceptional X-Men.

They're like, yeah, we need Bobby to. We need Bobby to write some things. I'm trying to think, like, that's when I found out that Cap was an artist or that Jarvis was a boxer. I didn't know Jarvis was a boxer. He boxed in the RAF. Yeah. Yeah.

It just, so when you find out they've got these, like, weirdly, like, mundane skills, as they should, as they should. But, like, oh, okay. And going through what I went through. But the thing is, I don't, I don't know if this is, you haven't, you haven't described that my particular set of mental issues here is, is the same. What I'm, what I'm still getting over is, okay. So this, this is an organization that has no legal standing. Like the X-Men are not any kind of recognized, like the Xavier School, maybe.

is like, okay, you know, they have an LLC, right? Whatever, right? But, but like, as individuals, okay, they have, you know, whatever, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, inherited wealth or whatever, you know, investments or whatever, you know, formerly ill gotten shit, she's got. But, like, the fact that they find, but, like, the fact that they find, Taxes just strikes me

as such a weird Like on one of the end I mean of course they do Yeah that's how you got Al Capone Like Well okay good point You're not gonna get them on war crimes Yeah gonna get them on taxes

Get them on taxes Even the Joker scared the IRS And he said it themselves He's like I ain't crazy not the best of them I don't mess with those guys Yeah I yeah Just the idea of

You know Kitty pride Having to fill out or having Bobby apparently fill out for her at 1040. Uh-huh. And you know, they all can write off their laundry. Yeah,

I mean, there's so much. There's so much to this. But, but, but can they, though? Because being a superhero,

they don't, that's a source of income. No, no, but that's a source of expenditure. You can write that off. I don't get to write off my laundry. You get to write off your shoes.

If you buy them for work. You got to talk to my tax guy. Okay, but hold on, no. Okay. I can do that because I can say, I bought these for my work. My work is what provides my income and the means for me to keep a roof over my head. They don't get paid for it. You don't have to.

If Xavier, if Xavier is housing them, you know, we don't know if he's going to, you know, you get a stipend or something because they live in good. They, you know. So I don't know. All right. And he's writing square footage. That's why it's all school is because tax reasons. Like you really think that like Logan is doing a good job of teaching history. Come on.

We're a art teacher at 1.2? Yeah, I think so. It's a shell corporation. I mean, honestly, like there are so many more less corrupt corporations out there in Marvel. Like Roxanne probably does their job. Okay, so... All right. All right, fine.

At some point, that means that that the X-Men are going to go up against AIM or somebody like that, and they're going to ask Bobby Drake to essentially, like, attack them financially. Oh, yeah, yeah. And at some point, somebody's going to ask him, can you freeze their assets? Only hero to freeze hell over. You can freeze hell over. You better be able to freeze some assets. That's right. That's right. I froze hell over. I can damn sure freeze your assets.

You just sit back down, like, oh, I love it. I love it. Okay, so the accountant, Bobby Drake. Yes. I can never get over that. So it was at an issue number two and three of X-Men United, which was recent. We see that the school is back up and is no longer a physical location. Emma Frost has made it a, how do I describe this? Virtual school? No, a mine palace. A mine palace. So you get there, you get there through your mind. Everybody has a unique key.

You make sure your body is safe somewhere. And your key opens a door to this mind palace. And that's how it's all connected. It's called GrayMall, Gray Matter Lane. Gray Matter Lane is called. I'm going to say Gray Malkin Lane. Gray Matter Lane is called. Okay.

And Cyclops was against him. This is a bad idea. This kid can be taken down. It's like I was no fun. But. they have a I think it's I'm gonna call it the

I'll see if I remember the original name but I think it's like the emotional engine they're using this as their cerebral to find other mutants that are distressed

it's being used by this mutant called Axo whose ability is to when you're near him you confess like how your moods and things like that

what you're feeling inside so he can use this to find other mutants so this is what they're using as their cerebral now this emotional it's emotional it's emotional engine.

And that is in a physical location that's hidden, that in that engine. That's also Mr. Sinister Technology. That's going to come back to bite them eventually more than likely. So what's happened recently in a recent issue is they get visited by Captain America. He got a mysterious note from this anonymous person that... Which cap are we talking Steve Rogers or Sam... Steve Rogers, Captain America. Good point.

Steve Rogers, Captain America, Vince Stem. He got a note from an anonymous person about a passing of a soldier that was in one of the experiments for the Super Soldier Serum. And this was a Black soldier. And so in that being a Black soldier, we are talking about the experiment of Super Soldier Serum that gave us Isaiah Bradley the Black Captain America. This was to place in the truth. Right. Mm-hmm. Truth, red, white, and black.

And this is the first time we've seen that I've seen this revisited. revisited it because we were told that Isaiah Bradley was the only one that survived. However, this person that Captain America was told they passed, it might have been a family member of them, but I believe it was

a member of that that was an experiment in wrong. And so he's come to the X-Men, the United X-Men, which is Emma Frost. He's approaching Emma Frost, Kitty Pride, Prodigy, and Prodigy, in this meeting that they're having. And he's asking them, he would like help.

and using their emotional engine that Emma Frost has told them about in order to find the remaining soldiers that may have survived the experimentations done to them and reconcile with them. Can I ask you a couple questions on that? Number one, so the emotional engine doesn't just find mutants. They can find other people? Yeah, that's how they're... Hey, we're going to get into some e-viewing and it's trying this,

and we're getting into some wild territory, but you'll find like you can find a person by their distress so yes you can you can be used to find uh find human you're you're mapping them out and it still has to be fine tuned uh-huh because i'll jump a little bit when they do find this person they're meeting them at three different stages in their life and in order to find the person you're recalling uh you're recalling memories from people that knew them in relative stuff to like to try and narrow it down to find them got and so when they when they do find uh this person, they're, they've seen them at three different points in their life. And it's like, ah, shit. And they brought a team there. It's like, okay, we got to, we got to try and calm this

guy down into, you know, and bring it into one, into one mindscape because it's taking place in the mind as well. Okay. And so Steve is, you know, he's asking for the X-Men's help because he heard about this emotion engine that can help him find these folks that were spend upon. And, and you said, Prodigy is there. Prodigy is there. Now that's, Giddy Price there, Emma Frost and Iceman. Okay, so tell me, tell me about Prodigy, because I grew up with the other three. Prodigy is David Elaine. He's from the new, he was in the New X-Men Academy.

Okay. And he was, and, uh, not Mirage. What is her name? Danielle Moonstar. She was there, she was there tutor. So this is during the time where the X-Men, uh, an X-academy X, X, X, Men, yeah, New X-Men, X-Men Academy. They had like teams and stuff.

They had Bobby Drake had a team. Cycloth had a team, the Corsair's. So these were the new new mutants. And they were being led to Daniel Moonstar. So they attended the X-Men, the mansion here. And they were being taught. And Prodigy's ability is that he knows what you know. He has a very, his telepathy works this way.

He picks up on skills. So whatever skill you know, he has it now. before it was only limited where if you were gone he couldn't he couldn't use it anymore and um and so when mday happened his ability was gone but the kookus unlocked his mind so that every every person he any person he met he retained their skills and he he became he became like an ultimate teacher basically so they made him a teacher and they kept him at that school even though he was depowered because it wasn't really safe for him to go back home either and you guys powered back

step for cuckus emma emma's uh emma's girls oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so now post uh post quacoa he's got his ability back and he's the kid's nasty the kid he got into a fight with sink and uh n yx over like their proper way to preserve hookoa and synx using abilities you know from other mutants and they yeah david's own ability and they were there was a stand it was a really

really good standoff but he's there because he's really smart and um but also even just because as he knew the answers, he still had to work backwards to discover the answer. So like Ford, he has to, his ability requires him, it's passive, and it requires him to work backwards sometimes to figure out things. And so they taught, Captain Marcus asked him for their help. He wants to use the emotional engine. Bobby Drake is surprised.

He's like, oh, you even know the name of this engine of ours, this thing. Okay, can you give us the room so that we can, you know, we can discuss this? and Katie Pride's like, yo, like, what the hell? And it's like, you're offering,

and Bobby Jokes, like, you're offering our service for hire. And, um, and then, but all prodigy scenes like, okay, but going in to do this is going to be hard because we're requiring,

we're looking at the memories of elderly people. And, you know, the topic that becomes always a violation of their, you know, it's a violation of going into people's memories. And she's like, how is that any more of a violation than us going to find newtons?

like how is that a violation and as far as our services this is soft diplomacy if Great Madeline is going to like if it's going to survive we're going to need allies and the cert and us doing the service

gives us good public relations and also you know and it's good practice for our kids being on street and eventually you know perhaps compensation and that's when Iceman realizes you're the one that sent that

anonymous obituary didn't you and she's like yeah she is and uh and a prodigy He's already with it. He's like, Emma's right. We do this for the greater good. And also just the real politic of it, you're helping, you're helping, you're helping Captain America.

Yeah. Which she's done before. Yeah. She was called on by him before. And so if there's ever going to be somebody to stand up for you who's part of the non-mutant community, boom. Exactly. And then on top of that, you're helping him to help veterans. Like all your red meat.

Yeah, black veterans. All your red meat, anti-mutant people. They're going to have a real hard time, like, standing up to that. Yeah, exactly. So this is. Triangulation. Yeah. Yeah.

PR-wise, this is a very, it's a very, it's a genius. She's a business genius. Like, this is a good move PR wise. Yeah. And Prodigy is saying Emma is right. We do this all the time for the greater good. Iceman is saying that's different. Those are our people.

As in we're helping, you know, mutants, there are people. Prodigy then says to Iceman, these, and speaking about the veterans, these are our people too, my people. Because Prodigy is black. Mm-hmm. And so here we have the intersectionality

happening between human and black right here. And while later, Iceman says, Kitty, like, Kitty, back me up. Where's your head at? For him to call on Kitty pride is very ironic because we can get into, we can get into that later. Yeah. Just a bit later.

He's like, you know, Kitty, where's your pride at? Kitty says, okay, there's someone I want to talk to first. She goes and she talks to Magneto, also telling, but, you know, Kitty is Jewish. Magneto is Jewish. Correct. And Magneto is saying that Rogers is chasing broken bones with bandages. He's trying to, he's chasing broken bones with bandages. He's trying to put a bandaid on what's happening.

He's like, the United States government was behind this heinous act against those men. Magneto has relevance here within this because. obviously, survivor of the Holocaust, right? When a regime has done, he survived that shit literally. So there is a parallel between that and between what these black soldiers have gone through with experimentations from the United States government. I would also add that he being a survivor of the Holocaust, there were several boats that were turned away by this United States government.

Yes, yes. And sent his people. Like, yeah. So there are layers to. to his his critique of cap and his repudiation of this, like, oh, you're doing this like apology tour. Like, you can't, you can't unstain the carpet here. Exactly.

You know, you can make it smell better, but it is still going to be a stain. And I understand Magneto being like, I'm sorry, you can't unring that bell because his community was specifically targeted along with many others and to the tune of 12 million people and one that she and he

Kitty Pride and Magneto belong to and also like these are people who are really needing help right now and I would point out that both Kitty and Eric are white not black so yeah and to your point Magneto says that very thing

what can a symbol of that very government due to negate their pain. And Kenny's saying, I hear you, but then isn't this why Steve should do this? He's trying to repair these things. And he's, and Magneto is saying this is an incalcable. There is no repair. And then Kitty asks, okay, but then where does the healing come from? And Magneto, being him saying, it doesn't.

That's the world. It's a litany of open wounds. So, okay, so she's talked to Magneto. I like this generational approach too, because here you have somebody who survived the Holocaust and then you have somebody who is the children of people who either witnessed or survived the Holocaust. And so you have a, like I had a friend who he is, I think, fourth or fifth generation Japanese, American. And he, yeah, he, yeah, exactly. He talked about how his dad was very upset about it. But his dad, it was never in the camps. Yeah. His dad, it was never in the camps.

his grandfather was and his grandfather kind of pulled his dad by the year and says we suffered that not you not you like and there's just there's this interesting generational uh uh dynamic going on there about who gets to claim who gets to own how much is it epigenetic how much does it you know like hey you might have been in the camp but you raised me so exactly there's so much going on there i like that So I like that she went to him because you get that generational thing and they have a shared culture. And you have, I mean, he has also committed horrible crimes in the name of protecting his people. But also even before he was rehabilitated into protecting his people, he was just an evil mutant who wanted to rule the world. Stanley wrote him, yeah.

He basically made him Hitler made Xavier FDR. Right. You know. Yeah. the parallel there it just not not the parallel we explored but yeah no but just the leg part alone I was like okay but okay so uh yeah so he was saying there is no there ain't ain't no what you trying to ain't no ain't no ain't no big turk this ain't this ain't this ain't street's array ain't this ain't big turkey meal in the middle of the street that's going to heal you yo nah

nah yeah it's real out here and so she goes back to probably Emma and Iceman and Iceman saying, all right, she's back. Let's vote. David Elaine Prodigy says, I vote yes. Emma says, yes, of course. Iceman says hard no. Kitty Pride abstains. And this is, and this is, this is really, this is, this is really good because Iceman

then says, Kitty, like, what the hell? You're making, you're still making a decision. Right. It's just one you get to pretend you're not accountable for. and Emma Frost's saying, okay, it's settled. Who shall we send? And then Prodigy's like, all right, he's getting together the team. Right.

This, this part is, this is the main part right here. They do go through with it. You find out that actually the dude was, he survived. He's also a mutant. So he was a black mutant too. Oh. Turn out in the end, he was a mutant. So if they had gone with Bobby, they spend it wrong on all the levels.

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And they help him out. And he creates, this dude creates a service. a center for students and a center for a community center for humans and mutants, I believe it was. But it's here.

It's in that Iceman telling Kitty, what the hell? You're still making a decision. It's just one you get to pretend you're not accountable for. If people, when I did the video on this, a lot of folks say, okay, Iceman's racist. I'm like, no, that's not it. He's a gay man. He's a gay man now. And he just, but however, he is not seeing intersectionality.

here. However, this is in character. This makes sense when you go back and look at the classic X-Men. And Kitty abstaining also makes sense when you go back and look at, you look at three instances where Kitty was dropping that inward. And God loves man kills. And there's two other uncanny X-Men issues. Looking first at Bobby Drake. Okay. So he's not, him not seeing this intersectionality. When the new X-Men came in and we talked about them in the last episode, you know, on that we had a... Can we back up just a hair before we get there? Yes, yes, yeah. Bobby Drake,

canonically, was the one that the KKK attacked. So he is, like, there is, it's not the cover. I think it's just inside the cover. He is almost going to get lynched by Cletus and a few other guys. Early in the X-Men, he ends up, like, getting attacked by a bunch of clan members. They're not in the hoods, but they're talking about. it and it caught them a mutie. And so he straight up is is the one that has the most interaction with a hate group.

So it's wild that he's missing the intersectionality here specifically. Like, I grant you whoever's reading, whoever's writing it doesn't necessarily know every single damn one. And it's only because I'm doing a longevity study of several of these. comics that I have any awareness of that. But like, holy halibut. Like, that's, that's quite something. I didn't know that, that, um, they had it running with the KKK because I, it was only

recently when I, because, um, when I look, when I looked, when I looked, I found the image of him talking to, of Bobby talking crazy to Thunderbird as I was like, well, let me go back and find the issue and it was classic X-Men number five, which I think is a bit of a, I think some folks that said this is a bit of a reccom or they, they added some things in. to uh because like you know all these new people coming into the x-man being thunderbird storm night crawler uh colossus john cassidy banshee um what's his name sunfire what's what's chiro's name yeah that's uh sunfire from yeah sunfire who was only there for like a hussein's like no i'm not with this and then wolverine so all these new characters and they're you know they're in the they're in

the they're in the mansion and there's a scene where uh night crawler he pops He's a goofball, and he pops up and he scares Peter. He spears Colossus. And he's like, oh, Nightcrawler. And because he transformed when he saw him like popping around, he transformed, rips his shirt. And then he says, oh, what's the matter? And the nightcrawler tells Peter, what's the matter? Colossus, never seen a demon teleport from place of face before?

And then someone asked, he's like, oh, no, you know, you scared me. And they're in the room. It's Peter. It's Nightcrawler and it's John Cassidy. And then he says, he asks, are you? you a demon night crawler and then bobby drake is in the doorway he's like well he sure looks the part and sean cassidy looks he looks at bobby drake he's like oh robert you know appearances can't be deceiving don't you know and it's like good point and i wouldn't be the first time

the x-men have been you know con by supposed friends who turn out to be enemies so he's already on edge here because these of these new folks coming in and they sense that and so sean's like okay let me let me let me I'm trying to he's trying to smooth things over and um and I cross saying yeah but we risked our lives to save yours because back that uh Xavier assembled this whole new X-Men team to save the old team this is the first appearance of uh Cicola where they uh we were being attacked by that living island and so that cross saying yeah but we risked our lives to save yours ice man doesn't that earn us the benefit of the doubt and Sean Cassie's like yeah why don't you pull up a chair and then join it on the fun and it

And Bobby is like, I'm not old enough to drink because they're tossing bottles. I'm not old enough to drink. And then you see Colossus like, what's wrong, comrade? And then Bobby says, I'm not your comrade, Ruski. This is America. And it's like, I know where I am, Iceman, but suddenly asked myself why I came here, not at all. Why I came here, like, are we not X-Men at all? And Bobby Drake is saying, you clowns figure you can waltz in, take over like the rest of us don't exist.

I'm an X-Man. So our angel, Marvel girl, and Cyclops, like our feelings, our opinions, don't matter. Don't matter.

And we see Bobby, again, this is where he shows him being, even those years later, him still being the youngest, and he's insecure about the place

that he's in with the X-Men. And so Sean Cassie, and these guys are, I think they're older than him, and they're, that they're being very calm here. And Sean Cassie's telling him, like, yo,

we're not trying to take anyone's place, boy, yo. Like, you know, we want to belong here as much as you do. Don't we get the chance to prove ourselves? Or is your mind already made up? You see what we look like and where we come from. And yet you don't like it. Is that it? And then Nightcrawler hits him with the, like, he's like, I resemble a demon, I resemble a monster, therefore I am one. You object to Peter's government and condemn him by association. You're all for mutant rights, but only for those mutants who fit your aesthetic and political criteria. Because again, those first five X-Men, we talked about this last time, all white, all looking, you know, they can all kind of hide their

and everything. They have a certain look to them too. So it bends in kind with that. And then in Nightcrow saying, that's the most charitable attitude there to make more, you're like very enlightened, being sarcastic. And Bobby's saying, that's not what I said. You're putting words in my mouth. And the next scene is Nycroft extending his hand and saying, then prove me wrong. Take my hand and Peters and welcome us with an open heart. As Professor Xavier did, Bobby slams the door walking out. And Peter's thinking, okay, I think maybe it was a mistake to come here. Yeah.

And funny enough, we see Bobby, we see, we then cut to Thunderbird, who was my fit. I love this. I love Thunderbird when I was a kid. And I was wanted to read more about him. And then finding out that dude friggin died out of nowhere. And I was like, wait, I was like, wait, what? And then finding out, it was supposed to be, it was supposed, the rumor is it was supposed to be Wolverine. But there was an artist there that was Canadian.

It's like, no, no, no, kill this dude because we don't have any Canadian heroes. And they were getting rid of them because they were kind of. Canadian says kill off the native. Yeah. That's some boarding school shit. Yeah. And so Thunderbird is in the hallway, and he's looking at a picture of the of the X-Men, the original X-Men. And he's like, okay, they've had some history.

And you remember about Thunderbird. Xavier comes to him. He's like, oh, I need your help to, you know, I need your, I need your talent, needs your help as he recruited all these new X-Men. I love Thunderbird because he told this man, hey, oh, what he basically he was like. Like, oh, the white man needs my help so I have to come running or whatever. Go stuff like cactus. Whitey.

I was like, yo, I've no. Like, yo, go stuff like cact. Like, that is great. I, I, yo, what, I've never heard it. That is wild. And then Xavier uses reverse psychology. It's like, oh, okay, that's what they say about the apathy is true. They're all cowards.

He's like, oh, hold on. Wait a minute now. I'll show you I'm just as good as anyone else. And it kind of, not bumbling, but it's very kind of one note. Oh, wait, what you say? Well, I'm going to prove you wrong. Right. And keep in mind.

Thunderbird is a Yeah, and Thunderbird is a Vietnam vet as well And I was actually at Where was I? Where was I? And Denver Outside of Denver, Colorado Um Actually wasn't Denver, Colorado. God damn it. Fort Garland. Fort Garland.

Uh, there's an exhibit of the Buffalo soldiers And you see how them And they were kind of used The Buffalo soldiers were kind of And in a way, really, earlier on it, they were used to like chase down natives as well and kind of like being put in this position. And so the, there's a museum for that as well as for Native Americans as well because they had the highest service rate. I think it might still be, it might still be to this day of employment in the military. And then there's this just a position of like, okay, well, how do you, you know, these are the same folks that drove you from your land.

But then you go and fight for them in the military. So there's exhibits all, you know, explaining that. And it's not like, it's not like pro, um, pro, um, it's not all like pro military or propaganda or whatever because there are some people that were like, dude went to Vietnam. I went to Vietnam. I came here to find everything. And then I'm going to Vietnam and I'm a brown dude killing other brown dudes.

And then he's like, this doesn't feel right. Yeah. This doesn't, this doesn't feel right. And so you, you hear these soldiers, um, these different soldiers, um, recollections of that. And you learn more about the buffalo soldiers and their relations with like the the Native Americans and whatnot and these black soldiers that like

they got some soldiers that they got cool with the natives as well so there's a really interesting a really interesting exhibit in the gym because it's in Fort Garland which was the base for the Buffalo soldiers and so to see now Thunderbird who served in the Vietnam War

he's watching these X-Men in this picture and he's saying okay there's history with X-Men here it won't be easy for them to share their place with a bunch of outsiders but to truly belong to be brothers the way the grunts were in my outfit back in my unit in the war that be worth it so he says he sees iceman coming he's like oh hey ice man this mansion's pretty big if you're not too busy how's about you showing me a few of

secrets and ice man says you want to explore go right ahead everything's labeled you can uh everything's labeled you can't get lost assuming you can read racism right there that because that is that's a stereotype yep that is a stereotype that uh that natives were were unable to read and it took me a second to to remember that because i'm like well i and we uh my my uh m fatee jac poetic it's an amazing um amazing uh poet as well we talk we he mentioned the double consciousness of uh w b de boys where you're black and you're aware of how you are perceived by white folks right but it's also double speak right we're in this is an example of that because if you don't know of that stereotype it could seem like bobby's just being a dickhead like he's just being it's just being it's

just seems like being a dickhead. Right. To know of that stereotype, now I don't are, are you being racist or are you, you know what you being, or are you being a dick? I'm inclined to believe that this is a, I know this is a racist remark. Yeah. I'm inclined to believe that you know that's a racist remark. Yeah.

Or do you, you know what I mean? Is it a racist remark or- Exactly. Or are you going to weaponize your ignorance too? Exactly. It's lie. And, uh, and, keep in mind, Thunderbird is the hothead. He is written as a hot head here. But here, I think he knows that Drake is younger because he keeps his cool, ironically enough.

And he says, no need for an attitude, I'm just trying to be friendly. And Iceman says, I'm not interested. Because I don't you understand. I don't want any of you here. You're not X-Men. And then he starts activating his power and he's being encased in ice. He said, this is our house, our lives you're holding in on. You haven't the right.

You don't belong. And he blasts Thunderbird with his ice power. and he's encasing him in ice, which is great. That's, that's, again. Hyper, like, aggressive. Yeah, so why don't you take the hint and go? Right. Yeah, you don't belong here.

A white dude. Then as to a native dude. And again, double speak, bro, but it's what from this one, I would, I would get out. I would shoot him some bail here where it's like you were just, again, because you're insecure or your place here, you feel like you're being ousted out. That is, you're insecurity speaking. But if I'm on the outside looking in, you don't. don't belong here. It's a white dude saying it to a native dude and you are the one of fit.

You are physically attacking him with your powers as well. Again, there's a second time where it looks a certain way here. And all all Thunderbird does. Again, this man is written as a fucking hothead, always trying to prove himself and his Apache pride and everything. He says, Professor Xavier asked us ice man. That gives us the right. We are here. We need to stay. And if he can't handle that boy, that's your problem. And all he does is flex and break out of the ice that he was in case then and so we go back to the x-man united issue issue number two seeing the way bobby's like well bobby missing that intersectionality i i thought of this i thought of this here i'm like well that's i mean it's in continuity here but again you mentioned the kKK thing so you would have thought

he had he would remember that and again this is where you know different writers different you know what you catch what you don't catch right i in teams are like oh eve you was doing I'm like, oh, this is, this is, to me, I'm like, oh, this is brilliant because I, it's, it's a callback to that where obviously we don't believe the Iceman is racist, but then there are still, you still have blind spots and him not seeing this intersectionality here where that could help is a huge blind spot. And I also, and this scene reminded me of the issue with Kitty Pride where Claremont writes, when we saw, if you remember back when we talked about the vote, Iceman, Iceman was against

the Kitty Pride of Stains. And then Iceman says, yeah, what, hell you're abstaining is the same thing as passing you're you're basically giving them the yes but you're alleviating yourself of the responsibility and the accountability of that right and that is in tune with kitty pride because if we remember back in the god-laws man kills where there was a dude there was a little there was a kid uh daniel i think his name was and he was um siding with william striker who was saying like you know mutants are bad and everything like that and kitty was putting the beats on his ass she was she got on the had that boy on the ground it was whoopin ass she gets

pulled off by Stevie Hunter, who's like a mother figure to her. And Stevie Hunter is saying like, oh, she's pulling him away. And she's saying, yeah, with your training, you could have really, you could have seriously hurt the kid with your training and everything like that. And she's thinking, yeah, but he called me a mutie. He called me this. And Stevie Hunter says, oh, they're just words. Don't worry about it.

Like, she says, how can you, she says, how can you be so calm? Like, can you hear what he said? And that's when she says, oh, they're just worse, child. You know, don't worry about it. And he says, suppose she called me an inward lover, Stevie, would you be so damn tolerant then? And then Kitty Pride runs away. And we see Peter Colossus comes up. He's like, oh, she didn't mean it that way.

You know, she didn't, you know her. She's upset. She didn't mean it. And Stevie Hunter says, oh, she did. She's been every word of it. And she's right. And she gives like a single tier. Okay.

And it's funny because in this instance, a lot of... This was God loves man killed. This is 80. So this is, I want to say this was... 85. I think, I think, 83, 84, 85, something like that. Okay. And it's funny because everyone thought this was like so, the scene in particular was so like revolutionary, right?

Like, oh my God, yeah, because Muti is in doing the video about this, man, I see so many people being like, it's worse being the mutinous than being black in the Marvel universe. Like they have it worse than black people. And I, in my, and every time just like, What about the black men's? What about the black gay mutants? What about the black gay women mutants?

You know, like, and everyone's like, oh, but like, no, it's teaching, it's showing tolerance. Like, no, it's not showing tolerance because it looks like you're trying to teach your white, your white audience about tolerance, but really you're trying to equate. You have to break the fourth wall here because you're trying to equate nudie with the word that has way more history. And they're like, oh, what mutin's been around? Like, dunes didn't become pop. He just got found out in 1963. This work's been around for like nearly 400 years.

And Xavier didn't come out as a mutant until 2010. It's just, you break the fourth wall here because one is not believable. Two, when you look at what Stevie Hunter were saying, like, she's trying to help Kitty Prize. She's not trying to just, I think everyone read it as her dismissing it. We're like, oh, with your training, like, you could have fucked that kid up. And not like, oh, you control. You had to fight one. You know what I mean?

Right. And this is a, again, this is a block. woman in 83 telling this girl that oh they're just worth she's trying to help a better thing to have what a to an example would have been all right what if she if kitty used her own slur all right what if they called you this or or this it makes me feel this way right this is the slur for being jewish right and equate the slur to something of her right yeah instead of using again we're using we're using black pain to teach uh right we're using we're using black paint to teach a white audience here yeah um for these white members but up but if i'm if i'm

black in reading this i'm like the fuck like what what what are i'm catching a stray here what what why am i in it and um so that's that's that's that's the one instance um there's another instance where uh a black dude named phil asser oh are you a muting says oh i don't know are you an nward and again a lot of people there are like oh well if you call me this i'm going to you back i'll fine but it is telling this is what my teacher Di Di poetic was saying it's telling that when pushed to a

when pushed to a corner this is what she digs this is what she digs into right this is what she shoots for and there's another instance where Kitty's giving up a speech and she's saying that you know

about this about a mutant that was killed and who he was that we were gathering to mourn him who am I I am a four-eyed flat-chested brat chick brain here stuck up uh Xavier snob freak uh don't like the words I could use nicer words I've heard worse uh who here hasn't then she starts listening off slurs she's N-word uh slur for uh you know the Spanish a slur for Italians uh slur for um for gays she's using and then mutie and she's using all those words it's telling here here you would

think this I this one where she can be given the most no grace like okay you're saying like, yeah, all these different, these, these bad slurs that we call each other, all these different, you know, these horrible words. It's telling that she does not include the Jewish slur here because you, why wouldn't you account yourself among the, you know, among those you're speaking of? So, and here, it's a, it feels like a blindside from the writer, too. Like, yeah, these, all these words, okay, there's one, it's, it's, it's, it's towards the rest, maybe. There's, there's, there's, there's one for everybody here. Why are you not including, why are you not including yourself here? You make an.

example of these, especially ones for like, I mean, for these other ethnic groups, yeah, it was just ethnic group as well. So why are you not including yourself here? And that other targeted groups in America. Exactly. And so when we go back to, oh, before that, they had Chris, Chris Claremont and the artist was Brent Anderson. They were on a podcast with Method Man and they talked about this. And Brent had said, like, yeah, I knew that we were, he, I saw a script and I was like, yeah, we need to get this out. I knew like, I knew that this was, I knew that this would be like ground breaking important. Didn't even care about getting it right.

That like, you know, I just knew, you know, this had to be done. And that is very, keep in mind, that podcast was done after that episode. But it is telling there that, oh, I didn't even care about getting it right. So then, okay, were you just going for the shock value? Yeah. And then that becomes a question. And people hang on until the, oh, well, we're, it's very hard to equate a fictional word with the real work with that much, uh, weight and power behind it. And again, it's like, you know it's a bad.

Oh, beauty is the same thing. No, it's not because you can say the word beauty. You're not saying the other word. You're not saying the M slur. Exactly. Exactly. And some people were trying to, we're trying to do that. And it's like, oh, we've left the slur with me.

It was like, hey, fam, this is fiction, though. I ain't calling the mudblood, like, like they do it Harry Potter. Now, that sounds bad. But like, and it's, it, one thing I will say is, it's, it is dope to see the X-Men then flip that. And recently they have flipped it like how in hip-hop culture where the N-word has been adopted to, you know, we say it amongst each other, you know, taking power away from it. That has happened in the X-Men comic books as well, where we see Wolverine saying, oh, it's good to see your mutis again. and then when it was time for them to fight back in the fall of X, we see

Emma Frost saying, all right, Muddies, let's get this together. And so it's become like, so that, I think that is, that is cold. I do like that aspect of it. I think that is, I think that is brilliant to see them using it that way. And when I would do X-Men memes, I would have them saying it like that as well.

I did do it earlier. So to see that happen in the comic, but I'm like, oh, yes. But here, all that to say with Kitty Pride, it makes sense that she would abstain because just like she said that to Stevie Hunter a woman that's up again a mother figure she was there at her wedding

Storm even felt jealous of Stevie Hunter because she started out as her dance instructor and she's been tight with the X-Men Storm even felt jealous that she was like kind of moving in on her not being replaced but like she you know like this other person that now Kitty is spending time with

which is like her little girl and funny enough we see Steve Hunter years later, she's a part of Congress fighting for mutant rights. You know what I mean? And so it was just telling that it would be a different story

if Kitty stayed and had a conversation, but her walking away is very similar to Iceman. I didn't say that. You're putting words in my mouth. Okay, then take my hand and shake my hand to show that, you know, to invite me in like Xavier has, slamming the door. And I think they had dated for a minute two,

Like they both, this isn't, this isn't an example of tolerance with Katie, uh, Kitty Pride is saying, oh yeah, well, you call me this word. I'm going to call you this. It's not this. This is not a tolerance. This is an example of white fragility in, in this case is because, uh, four affirmation statement, because when push comes to shove, you go for the most hurtful thing. You use black, you're using, black pain to a woman that, to a black woman that's one older who definitely knows a press. She, she, she knows racism, dog. She knows that. And again, she was trying to help. That's not the, I probably saying, hey, this isn't helping because I feel like this. So no, what you go for, you go for the hard shot to try and equate. And again, when push into a corner again, she does it again. Okay. And then when trying to do a speech about like, oh, you know, all these bad words against us, you are not inclusive in your own, you and even include yourself in your own speech. You don't include your own ethnicity in your own speech. And then we go back to when doing the vote, she sought out Magneto, which does make sense because Jewish, been through a Holocaust and everything like that.

So you can understand that. And I mean, in the same time as Captain America, right? Because... Right. Captain America fought in World War II. And it's funny. I only remember recently that it was the Russians that really got the... They got out the...

The Chinese party that really got out the... What's it called? The Nazis and America just came in, like, toward the end. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm like... Our D-Day focus is insane. Yeah, I'm like, yo, that... That's been since 42.

Yeah, we did the heavy lifting. What the fuck? Yeah. But it's funny that she, ironically, she goes to, she goes to Magneto. Storm's right there. Stevie Hunter's right there. There's all these, you know, they're, that because it's their cultural difference here.

Because the, Magneto, they go through a pain, but not, we're not doing pain in Olympics, but that that is a different thing. It's a culturally a different pain and oppression that has gone through there. And it reminds me of when Denzel was asked. Why, um, oh, why Scorsese or why can't Scorsese make Malcolm X or something along those lines? Yeah, it was, uh, because like, why, you know, why a black director for this thing, offense, defense is like, same thing. Why Scorsese can't make, Scorsese can't do, uh, Schindler's List.

Yeah, Chindler's List and Stephen, but Steve is, but Steve is Spielberg. It's called, they're culturally different. They're culturally different. He even said, he's like, they could make it, but they wouldn't understand the culture. And then he talks about the hot comb on your neck and the field that on a Sunday morning, you know. Exactly. And he's like, you know, and of course, he's being made to answer for that. Yeah.

You don't hear Ray Leota being asked that same question. Ray Leota is crazy. You know? So, I mean, so, but yeah, it's that same kind of thing. Like, you put Stevie there to get the N-word tossed at her, and then you run out of the room. And it reminds me of like every, a very special episode that tackled racism in the 90s and the 80s. If you go back and watch them, it's very often the black person sees racism where there is

none, makes an assumption about the white main character. And then the white main character then turns it around and says, it looks like we both have a lot to learn, doesn't it? Exactly. Exactly. We saw this in 21 Jump Street. We saw this in 90210. I'm pretty sure we've seen it in like a bunch of different sitcoms.

A different world. Yeah. A different world as well. Dean Cain was the one that was being racist. Right. So it's just, it's fucking wild. Like the only time where I saw it like a very special episode tackled in a way that didn't make the black person seem like the racist was fresh prints when they got pulled over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then the dad was like, yeah, I thought the same thing too, the first time I got pulled over. And then Carlton sits down and has to have a think on it. But like every other time, it's it's almost. like that's the only way that white audiences will accept the idea of racism in their favorite TV shows is when it's a black person needing to be taught how not to be racist. And that is these three examples of that. It feels like that with this.

Again, come off to God, but it feels like that, oh, look, even black people can be racist too. And we're only going to focus on that They can be prejudice But like there's not how how there's no system in place that they have put like it's not is not the same So if it was like prejudice yeah. Sure that is a thing. But racist I got no system I got no laws written on you. Yeah.

You know there's no I got no like throw cracker that no that no that's the crack of the whip even even these like even these terms like or you still doesn't have out of power for you. So it's it's yeah it reminds me of um Kevin Costner and I was gonna call it Kevin Irma kept saying hidden fences hidden figures

His character didn't exist Right His character did not exist They put it in to placate To make them not to make white I just not white Not feel bad And make them say like oh I'd be that guy

Yeah exactly Yeah I'd be the good one Yeah Yeah So I'm having the damnedest time Finding the issue Where I saw because there's somebody like Bobby Drake is bent over backward, like in not a prone position, but like his knees are buckling.

Somebody is putting a rope on him. He's being attacked. I have not been able to find it. I'm like scrolling madly to try to find it. And I cannot. And I'm wondering if I didn't transpose some other issue of a different comic book because there was a one point in the New Warriors. timeline where they ended up

all of them getting scattered through time and Night Thrasher goes back into a time and I think he actually fights off a lynching. Oh, Jesus. It's fucking wild. Like there's an apology put in the front of the issue now like both digitally and in print. But I swear to God it was X-Men

because I was shocked at how early in the X-Men run it was. That happened. Yeah, but I think the clan part is not explicit. I think that is much closer to the lynching that Dwayne Taylor, Night Thrasher, witnessed because there was like several pages of whoever was in charge of printing out that new warrior's omnibus saying, we used a word that was historically accurate at the time, it was wrong then, it's wrong now, etc. I'm like, okay, cool, this is interesting, but like, damned if I can find it now.

That, yeah. That reminds me because, um, storm goes to Africa. She's shot in the head by Andrea, uh, what, what, she's one of the twins. They, they have to hold hands. They use their powers. Andrea Vaughn,

do, not struck her. Uh, it's her and her brother, Andrea Dumas, is it? I don't know these characters. uh they're they're they're they're the rate they're there they're there's racist twins and they're mutants um but she storms in african she's on a plane she's shot in the head and she's called

the the the the kaffir which is the south african version of yeah and they're that's it for us to say though they're there that's the man that's that's the whole point that it's a kid but and even and like That's their mentality. We can use other people's slurs. And it's like, no, how about not? But even then, even then I was like, that makes sense of it. But I was like, that, that, that makes sense of it. I'm like, that's wild.

But that, that's the correct usage of it. Right. And there is, there is no equating there. Because that, in South Africa, for that, that's not like, oh, we'll take this ring up our bar. No. Right. That it is said somebody's going to sleep.

And, you know, it is, it is, there is, there is, there is. is no there's no there's no middle ground there ain't ain't no oh ain't no tolerance ain't that word is said somebody somebody somebody's somebody's going down somebody's going down it's getting active uh so so i yeah so yeah so you you just triggered a memory with uh with that I think maybe it's Andreavann von Straker her and Andre and Andreas are the other other other other other other other other other other other twins yeah the siblings Um, but like I did enjoy because in the office, oh, it's one character, one dude, uh, a comment

like, oh, so Bobby Jake's racist got it. Like, well, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying this is like there's still, even all these years later, there's still room for the character to grow. And that's the, that's the thing because the characters, characters have to have flaws. Batman cannot win every fight. A hero cannot win every fight. they have to lose they can't and not just lose a physical fight they have to lose a moral moral

thing they have to be and they have to be in the wrong and a way and the journey of them growing as a character is them getting out of the wrong as well that is how a character grows so i i well it wasn't um as i said in the in the comment ladies wasn't like to point out yeah i fuck iceman no i don't fucking love bobby drake's hilarious uh but like this is just showing like you know all all these years later. And isn't that the hard thing with this property that's been going on

for so long, right? This isn't mongas where like this will eventually come to an end. Nah, this goes on and on and on and on. For nearly over, it's like 80, 70 some odd years of these characters.

Yeah. They started 60s. Having to find ways to keep them growing as well. That's what keeps interesting. That's what keeps you going back from more. And it's life lessons as well. So sometimes,

his character, maybe he, maybe ice man has not seen intersectionality here, but then maybe a few years from now, months from now, we see an issue where it's reflected. It's then, you know, we see that editor's note going back to when he didn't see it then, but maybe he sees that intersectionality now. And I'm still waiting on it. God damn. I'm still waiting for some, um, for Kitty Pride. I am still waiting for that because it was not, it was never addressed again. And there was a, there was a, um, a female comic writer. I was like, if you don't think that Katie Pride is just turning her stomach over what she does. And she, it looked like she was white.

And it looked like she wanted to be the one to address that. And I'm like, yo, like, please. Like, even if it's like, because even it's not an apology, I think it would be, I just think it'd be, I just think it's a conversation that needs to happen. And it'd be really, I think it'd be big on Katie. You'd be like, I was, I was 14. Right. And like, you know, and I said that. And I ran, it's just a running away.

And because you don't even stay with it. again, just like I especially say, you don't stick with the accountability of it. You think it alleviates you of the accountability of what of your actions. And so just, and so her abstaining, it, it's such a good reflection of her actions when she was back, when she was that 14 year old little girl. Yeah. Well, and then, so not only that, like, you're being very gracious in giving her a way out. And I think rightly so, because when the authors wrote that, you know, in that period of time,

et cetera, et cetera. I, so I've been a teacher for, oh, God, almost 25 years. That old God was real. That old God is so real. But I've been a teacher for that long. I have taught history most of my career. When I started teaching history, there, we took, you know, teaching social science for high schoolers class, right? there was a discussion around the N-word and how to do it.

And at that time, it was a legitimate use of it if you were quoting it. Yes. And you would introduce it as, I'm going to quote this. This is not me. This is this person talking. And then you could do it. And the idea behind it was at that time, this is going to be a visceral reaction that students will have and then they will buy in. They will be curious, et cetera, et cetera. Now, that was

when I was a baby teacher. And there were already people in that class who I know, because I perform the wedding for one of them, who her husband, her fiance at the time was black and she's herself white. And she's like, I am not doing that. And I'm like, oh, well, you know, different people. But I like, because I would teach the history of Vietnam and I would talk about, Muhammad Ali and I would talk about how no Viet Kong ever called me and I would quote it and I had somebody come up to me and say you know it's it's not appropriate for you to use that word I said and and I was of that school of thought where I'm showing you the history and history doesn't have a rating system and if we start and again I remember believing very strongly in this I have since

come to change but it was if you don't show people the actual history then you're sanitizing it and you're going to make it easier for the shit to continue, right? Because it's that binary that white people can feel comfortable with. And so then I remember the generation before me didn't even introduce it in quotes. So when I was in high school, it would just be on the documents and there would be no introduction. It was just like we're studying history. Bam, we're here. Yeah.

And again, there is a layer or to it for me is like, it's history. That's what you do. but it's public school compulsory classes, maybe, you know. But then the OJ. Simpson trial happened. And that's when Cochran used the phrase, the N-word. And that shifted it to what we had. And then what we had then shifted again in, I want to say, it stopped being something that you could say,

this is a quote, and then you would have to give a short speech in front of it, like to step away and say, okay, I'm going to use this word in this quote because of the power of this quote and blah, blah, blah. This is in no way a reflection of my thoughts and in no way evaluation of you, but I need you to hear it as it was written, et cetera, et cetera. And then you would step back in and you would do that. And then another shift happened. And I swear this was like from the beginning of the Obama presidency to the beginning of the Trump presidency. practically. And it was that shift went from you having to give that long preamble to just saying N word, do not ever in any way introduce it or did, da, da, da, da, da. But there's so many of us who came up

with that other training that our default setting was that. And if you have any kind of a slip up, you slip back into that. Yeah. Which is now a problem. Because it has always been a problem. It's just that we now are dialed in more as to why it's a problem. Yep. Yep. And so I have seen people like, teaching has just gotten to. And I'm like, no. No. Things change. You have to roll with it.

You also have to give yourself some grace for fucking it up. But you would better be very, very intentional. And what it's done is it's kind of led to a sanitization, unfortunately, of people like, I'm just not going to teach that then. And it's like, God damn. Oh, so you get away from the hard thing. They must be nice. That you have a choice to them.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, having the privilege to be able to say, well, you know, I'll just, I won't cover that. Right. Like, no, the cornerstone speech needs to be part of every fucking unit anybody teaches on the Civil War. Like in the eighth grade, you need to put that in front of the kids and go, no, it was about slavery. It was about slavery and white supremacy. And there is nuance in that people in North were racist and they didn't care about emancipation.

They cared about union, but the people who started the fucking war started it over slavery. So let's let's have that discussion. Let's bring that up. Here's the primary source documents. They all fucking set it. And then when we finish talking about the war, here's what they all started fucking lying after it was over. Yeah. So, but it's, it's, so the evolution, and I do call it an evolution because evolution does not get us toward perfection.

and get us towards adequacy for the moment. Nice. So it is an evolution. Has taken us, I think, in a better direction in that we're not dropping slurs. At the same time, people are, it's almost like, well, if I can't make a slur, then I'm not going to make the point. And it's like, you're not being that transactional on purpose, but you are in effect doing that. Yes. So I go back to Kitty Pride using that slur in the 80s.

that fits totally in the way that history was taught in the way that the culture was. You'd see it. I remember, oh, God, Nell Carter, give me a break. Did you ever, you might be, I think you're younger than I am. Yeah, okay. Nell Carter, fantastic singer, incredible comedian. She was on a TV show called Give Me a Break.

She was the black maid in a very middle class house, which I was always weirded out, they had it made. But there was a young boy in it who was like the youngest son of the family. And there was, it's the blackface one. Yeah, where he comes out and starts singing Mammy. Yeah. And she yells at him and she's like, this is the first, do you realize that you use the word? And she drops the word. It was on primetime television. Now, it's a black woman saying it. She's scolding him and all this. They also did blackface. But that was totally acceptable. there was no warning ahead of time.

It just boom, it was there. And you saw it in ER another 10, 15 years later. It shows up. People use that slur. And now you don't see that on primetime TV. So again, I think that like when a thing happens and looking at how people were taught and what the culture was in the mainstream around the use of that word, as well as the forcefulness by which,

the black community has taken that word back. Exactly. Very important. Which, again, there was a TV show called Black White that I think Ice Cube produced. And it was, there was a white family who had really good makeup done for them. I remember. Oh, my God. I remember this.

I remember that. Remember that? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It was wild. And then the white family had very good makeup done for them. and the second they found out that the young man was black,

all the white kids were just dropping the end bomb left and right. And it was fucking wild. And that was, I mean, I was married at that time. So that's, you know, that's not too recent, to be honest. But that was in this century. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was at the time that Morgan Spurlock had his own TV show too. like so it would make sense to me again that kitty pride's dropping that there

but also talk about leaving money on the table like you said it is so hard to make a character grow now when there has been how long's kitty pride been around since the early 80s late 70s yeah 80s she's she's the first jubilee right yeah after a fashion yeah so she because she was in the cartoon Pride of the X-Men where they gave Wolverine an Australian accent for an accent. So, but so...

I'm glad I missed that one. Oh, you missed out. There was some cool shit in it, but yeah, it was. But it was like one of the first rental cartoons of the X-Men that you could get at Blockbuster. Oh, okay. But, so, I mean, she's been around since right around that time. So it makes perfect sense to me

that now she's been around 40 years. Why not go back and revisit old stuff and rehash old stuff? Hell, you brought back the same villain 15 times. Might as well go back and be like, oh, and let's update this character. Let's have them grow internally. Like that, again, it's money left on the table. And I think some of it is probably a lack of depth of reading. I think it's probably also moral cowardice.

but yeah I I don't see why to me that's low-hanging fruit yeah like correcting having Bobby Drake grow for the next two years that's good good writing for him you know having Kitty Pride like own it and bring back Stevie for that in a meaningful way you know what are you're going to say it well what I'm going to say is it's low-hanging fruit for you and me and, you know, a certain set of the audience. I don't know if writers at Marvel or editors. I think writers probably would, but I don't know if editors and executives at Marvel

are aligned with the same outlook. Oof. You know what I mean? Like, there's, there's, You and I and Omar, the three of us look at this from the standpoint of, you know, character growth. We look at it from the standpoint of, you know, problematic steps forward to, you know, use that phrase again. And, and, you know, and with a knowledge and understanding of the history of it all. and the people who are responsible for green lighting storylines

right are not motivated by the same set of priorities okay like I don't I don't want to say necessarily that their values are different but they are they are instituted Institutionally programmed to be risk averse, right? Yep. And so, you know, like we were discussing earlier talking about, you know, stuff that's been shelved. Right. You know, on a, on a financial level, there's risk.

And on a cultural level, there's a subset of the nerd pop culture, you know, fandom that are that are shitheads that make an outsized I'm convinced a way outsized amount of noise in any kind of conversation because they

they don't want to deal with anything uncomfortable they don't want to face you know they they don't want to have to try to empathize with characters who don't look and sound like them and

And because of the noise they make, sadly, right? I think, I think people in editorial and executive positions don't see these things as low-hanging fruit. I think, you know, capitalism. Oh, my God, my grandfather is spitting in his grave hearing me say this, I'm sure. But, you know, capitalism has fucked the art over in that way. Yes. You know, and unless. we as fans, we as people who care about the writing,

care about the art and the lore and all of that, unless we make enough noise and spend enough money, sadly. Yeah. You know, I don't think it'll become low-hanging fruit for the people that are making those decisions. Does that make sense? Yes, my partner,

she was saying the same thing, the exact same thing, as the way of safe because these racist motherfuckers over here making the goddamn noise and you keep bending the need you keep bending the need to them

and you keep trying to play safe to placate them you're placating the wrong audience and you're leaving so much money on the table for these audience that are like no we want we want this take the risk like no no no no we're gonna we're gonna put everything uniform and straight we're gonna keep playing the safe and get

the dollars this way yeah yeah it's because Stan's soapbox would straight up tell people and he had this weird obsession with like redheads yeah yeah uh as a former um I still are you got you know I know I am my child qualified come on you have you have documentary evidence I do have document so Omar you're gonna love this my daughter has been making this joke for years that there's only two redheads in my house

her brother and her because they're both super like duracell batteries like orange yeah orange red hair and I'm like and she doesn't does it to roast me. And I'm like, no, I got the red hair too. And she's like, where? I was like, well, she's right on you. It does not count. My upper lip counts. God damn it. This is. It happened to you. Yeah. Exactly. And so then I told her, I was like, here's a picture. She's like, okay, yeah, you used Photoshop. I'm like, fuck you. Like, it's awesome. So, so then I asked her, he raised his daughter to choose violence at all times. It's really, it's awesome. So then I asked her, I said, what would it take to prove it to you?

And she said, well, the Charles Schultz Museum lets Redheads in for free on Valentine's Day. So if you got in for free on Valentine's Day, I would have to believe you. I was like, okay, Saturday was this last year, Valentine's Day was on a Saturday. So I said, we're going. And we go, and all three of us got in for free. And I had the lady print the receipt, and I said, I'm like, see? And I said it right to her face. I'm like right there.

I got in for free. I am a redhead still. And she's like, okay, okay. So I framed it and put it up on the wall. Nice, nice, nice. And she's like, this was so unnecessary. I'm like, how it was. You think you take the joke far?

No, I'm going to take it further lady. Oh, yeah. You're dealing with the old man here, kiddo. Like, no, you need to understand. That's so unnecessary. You spent money on this. Yes. Yes, I did.

That frame was very expensive. I didn't. That's a lot of it. that in great. I got a gas money. But, oh, I found it.

It's issue number 45 of the X-Men. And it's at the end of it because they did the origins of the X-Men, like a little, like four-page thing. And it's called, and the mob cried vengeance. And there is a lynch mob that Cyclops has to rescue Bobby Drake from. now they don't have a rope in their hand I think I was transposing two different comics

but conceptually these are people who like straight up were going to hang him and instead Cyclops gets him away and they stop the mob from getting to him so that's insane that's insane yeah it's it's

it's bad shit it is nuts so yes Bobby Drake understood mob violence against his people, but apparently he defined that very, very narrowly. Oh, here it is. Issue 46. I just, because this is to be continued. 46. This is actually exactly what it is. So you have several guys surrounding them with guns, and we got them now, boys. Looks like their powers gave out. I believe you're right, Clem. And then Bobby, he's still kind of snowy, but he says, I've been a fool.

You're not human beings. You're like a pack of wild animals. Save your breath, kid. You're going to need it when we string you up. And then come on, boys, let's stretch their necks. And the guy does have rope in his hand. That's the one I found. It was 46.

And you don't get it, Bobby? And you don't know. Right? Yeah. It just, what the, what in the actual hell, Bobby? Like, again, I can understand, like, you know, not, what's the word? Oh, and juggernauts on the cover of that one.

Wild. I can understand not understanding, not having read every single issue. Oh, yeah. But like, there's got to be like a primer, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and.

Yeah, go ahead. So one of the things that I think is kind of unspoken. but I I has occurred to me on several occasions it is the limitation of the characters as limitation of the writers as limitation of the writers at the time

yeah I mean that's our whole podcast yeah I mean yeah but what we do but I think but I think you know just kind of kind of bringing out because we were talking about it in the context of like oh my god Bobby how clueless are you right it's like you know, to what extent, and I guess this would be a question for you, Omar, when you're looking at like the more recent issues that

Bobby has had with this. Yeah. Do you think there more recently is an awareness of his like lack of understanding? Or do you think it's still kind of what I was talking about a second ago about, you know, not wanting to make, you know, white readers uncomfortable or like where, where on a, on a meta level, what do you think this is rooted in? I think this is rooted in.

Actually, I thought this one was, I thought this one was making white readers uncomfortable because I thought it was, I thought I, I thought I, we talked about it before. I it's so rare to see race talked about among X-Men so I and I and I thought I thought you know I I guess sometimes you mentioned like your favorite era of like if you're like NBA eras if we're talking about your favorite superhero stuff like that so I think sometimes you have to do it like like this era all right and so this Bobby Drake is now being gay so it's like but but it came out he was outed back in like what 2014 so it's been about maybe 12 years 12 years real time but still not a long time realizing they're queer gay and uh in comics time but i think it was it was just really i i saw this commentary on like on like how sometimes white gay it's can miss that intersectionality as

well and so maybe you're being you know what i mean so i i saw that okay oh oh bobby's bobby's i don't I don't want to say like, gay, Bobby realizes that he is, that he's gay now that that's come up and be bottomed. Okay, and doing that, sidebar,

that man was crushing down a lot of women, when he, when he was not gay. He been, he's been, he need to get the numbers up with the men, too, because I'm like,

what the, I was like, what the fuck? Because, like, he should be, he was, that man was a whore. And I'm like,

y'all seemed to have slowed it down now that he came out, because he's a man. Because I, I'm like, No, no, no, we need to, I want the continuity of the same. I need to see him, this man need to be crushing down numbers. Oh, I got, you saw him come like here and have like one boyfriend. I was like, if you don't get the fuck up out of here right now, this man needs to be sliding around.

The, the range changed. You know what I mean? The jumper, the jumper still wet. What are we talking about? Yeah. You know what I mean? We're just, we're just shooting from the three point line. We ain't taking the, we ain't in the, I don't know, sports.

We ain't in the paint. We're shooting from behind the arc now. What the fuck? What the fuck? But I think it was. it was a good example of that like okay like oh yeah even even being gay sometimes there are things you are white gay uh there are things you will miss uh or it be for or gay uh lesbian whatever or maybe in trans like there are things that you will miss and in terms of intersectionality and things you still have to learn so i saw it as a example of of that and and it was and it was different for in all this place and again especially because I love him because he was like the jokey character right the character

i can't believe who is an accountant so i thought it was i thought it was a good example in this in this era okay we're taking it from here is a good example of of that like oh this person missing this intersectionality here and i it just so happened that i found an issue where oh it could align with this so it's here because here how he missed it down here um but uh damien haven't haven't found that issue like well, KK, why didn't he remember this, you know, here? And it's funny, and it's funny because that's issue number 45. And then it leaves it up to the reader for the head cannon, right?

Okay, that was issue number 45. Did you, you should have realized that there. But also that was when you first started out. You were a kid. You were just saying, oh, they're hanging in front because I'm a mutant. And then you see these other guys put coming to push you out. Like, here's, you've been through this experience and you still don't even realize how you should, you should you should how you should be on this side of this dude look at like you know what I mean

so I think are you that blind not are you or are you or whiteness is a hell of a drug yeah yeah it really is yeah it it renders a whole lot of other things much harder to spot yeah you know I would say and this is just my take I think you have a lot more faith in white readers than I do Omar? I really, because, you know, we talked about dual consciousness before. Most white readers have monoconsciousness,

if that, right? Because literally, I, all of my, feel free to Google me, by the way, but,

that's hard, right? Yeah, but I've got a file full of death threats that I keep. but I opt in I 100% opt in and I try like hell never to opt out but if I wanted to I could opt out I could 100% opt out and still wave to my neighbors who are both black

or still wave to my neighbors who are biracial or still and still be the nice guy on the block I could completely opt out I could shop at Target again I could you know I could do all these things, I could opt out 100% and no one would know the difference. But me and people who have come to see me, I would not call myself an accomplice despite having put myself

in the crosshairs a few times. They would still see me as a well-meaning ally who goes hard in the pain. I wouldn't call myself an accomplice by the standards that we've set just because I don't

want to claim something that somebody hasn't told me. But I could opt out and the only people who wouldn't notice or the only people who would notice are my friends that I am trying to be a good accomplice to. You know, in the communities that I try to serve. Like, I could absolutely teach from my textbook and my principles would be much happier. You know, there would be far fewer parents trying to transfer the kids out of my classes. There would be far fewer death threats. There would be, you know, and on and on and on. And I think that most of the white readers would not read that scene that you set for

so well as Bobby Drake is the bad guy. And I don't think you're saying he's the bad guy, but is that Bobby Drake is the problem here or that Kitty can pride is the problem here. I think they wouldn't see that. a missed opportunity. They would see it as, oh, well, they addressed it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, again, that's, that is a thing that I opt into. Like I, I, I have cultivated my algorithm enough that your stuff came up and then I added you as a follow so that your stuff would continue to come up. You know, like I, I did that. And I think now we're, we might be mutual.

So that makes it even easier, right? But, um, but, you know, and you have like, you've got over 170,000 people following you, dude. There's millions who will never see it, who also read that issue. Well, maybe not millions who read that issue, but, you know, the Venn diagram there. And so I don't, I don't know that people will see Bobby and Kitty as having problematic views.

They'll be stuck more on, well, this was a quick little thing. Exactly. There's Prodigy on his shit again. Yeah, you're right. There he goes again. Yeah, there he goes again. Okay. Okay, prodigy.

Now we're done. And so, because whiteness is the default. And so white people doing whiteness doesn't ping white people in any way of us going like, hey, wait a minute. Whereas all my other friends are like, yeah, do you see the problem there? I'm like, yeah, I do. But it took training. Yeah. That is a really good example.

In that last episode, I remember we had talked about, like, my question was when Kamala Khan, okay, she's a mutant now. Or she's a mutant and when she joined an X-Men squad and they're fighting Orkis, is she going to kill? There is an issue where she comes out as a mutant. And Emma Frost is telling her your life's going to be different now. And she tells Emma, I faced discrimination before. And she's like, oh, no, this is different. This is different than that because this is humans. this is humans

see you as a replacement. This isn't that. Humans see you as a replacement. That's why they hate you now. And I'm like, there's a failed opportunity right there. There's a failed, there's a failed, there's a failed. There's a bit of failed opportunity. Yeah.

Re-replacement theory. Right there. Fucking right there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because to take, and. Emma didn't say it as dismissively, but like, it does, it does feel like when she's talking about discrimination, like, I'm a brown girl.

I'm a brown. a Pakistani Muslim girl dog What are we talking? You're living in Jersey? Like what are we talking about? Oh no no no no that's that This because I'm like Ah you're not no no no no no

There's another way to handle that conversation So that in that way you just phrased that they Reminded me just of that Because again look at Emma Frost and you You know whatever no you're telepathic You move things with no one fucking never know If you didn't use your goddamn power They know with that haircut that you're going to ask for the manager

That's about it Yeah. No one's got to know. I, there's, I've tried to like kind of dissect this before in, you know, because I'm a teacher and I need to make things more clear to my students.

And again, I'm me teaching about like John Punch and teaching about like some really awful shit. And teaching, I'm the teacher who teaches about the Oklahoma City Massacre. For a week and a half. Like, I show them the maps. I show them that, you know, But it's for, and I tell kids this, for me, this is academic.

Yes. I can get into the humanity of it. But for me, it's academic. For some of you all, it's epigenetic. Yeah. It's a lived experience to walk through this world when you're not white. It is an academic experience when you are white to recognize what other people's. And very often that's where I find the compassion breakdown is when you come to leftist ideology through academia, it's all ideas. It's not people. Whereas when you come to it through lived experiences or through really genuinely like focusing on people, it is a lot harder to shake. And it's a lot easier to avoid the pitfalls of missing the intersectionality.

that's a great analysis that is a great that's yeah that's a fucking line yeah well i'm sure i got it from somebody because i don't know bobby drake uh deeply disappointing in those in those uh parts uh for the people who do read it with even with an under an academic understanding of dual consciousness like i'm not going to claim to have dual consciousness but um i i yeah and i can see a lot of people being like, yeah, there was just a couple panels there. And the real issue is this thing. And look what Cap did, you know.

Cap was in the X-Men, you know. Which, again, you do the shield. That's great. Yeah, you know. Punky, punchy. Great. It is a visual medium. I like that shit. Absolutely. But like, that's not what kept me on your page

either. Yes, you know, is the other stuff. So, all right. So I absolutely have talked to us pretty far afield. Did we cover all of the aspects to it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we got it. Good.

So I'm going to ask you the same things I asked you with Juggernaut. What do you hope happens with the, and this is going to be for both Kitty and Bobby. Oh, Jesus. What do you hope? I know the sense. Yeah. What do you dread and what do you think will happen? And I got a feeling those last two are going to be the same.

They're always connected. What I would hope is it gets. And Eve Ewing is the one that, that rendis, she's the one, if there's anyone to do it, she's the one that did. She made, Brian, Michael Bendis made Rie Rie Williams. No, Brian Michael Bindens created Rie Williams, a black girl from Chicago. Eve L. Ewing, a black girl from Chicago made Rie W. Williams, dog. She, she pushed her further. So there was a writer to have this guy, had to do this with what I hope.

hope with Kitty and Bobby, it would be, it would be, uh, Eve Ewing. I would trust her to do it. And I'd love, I'd love to see that again, that conversation between another conversation between Stevie Hunter and Kitty Pride. And also Bobby Drake realizing here, okay, I think I, I missed, I missed, I missed, uh, I missed a mark here or him coming to a realization. Like, oh, that's what that, that's what I wasn't getting before. I'd love to see that. What I dread and what I know what will happen, It's not going to happen. I know it's not going to. I would love, I would love to come back.

I would love to see it happen and come back and be like, hey, I've never been more happy to be wrong. I am not going to be wrong on this. I am not going to be wrong on this. And if I, yes, it will not happen. If it does happen, I'd hope I'd live to see it happen. I highly doubt. Yeah.

I highly doubt and I dread. And I, because I know it is not. going to happen. It is not going to happen, especially Katie's thing. It is not going to happen. Bobby's thing, maybe more like,

it could. It could. Yes or now it could. Katie's thing, it will not happen because it hasn't happened yet. Right. They've never,

they'd never, they'd never touched it again. That is, that is solidified in time. That is, that is a canon. It is a canon event. It is not to be,

we are revisiting. Fixed point in time. There you. Yep. No revisits. No redos. Well, here's hoping that e-viewing hears our podcast. Here's hoping that anybody does.

But I keep getting amazing guests, and I think that's been drawing ears to us. But if she hears it, here's hoping that, like, she, because she was only born in 1986. Oh, yeah, he's great. He's older than her. Yep. Like, that's wild.

but what do you call it? Like, so it's entirely reasonable to assume that she didn't get to get around to reading that, that issue as well as part of her. Oh, no, no, no, no, she did. Oh, she read the God Love Man Kills? Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, that is a pretty big, yeah. Yeah, yeah, she, because I, when I did the thing. I just go on the date.

When I did, because I did, when I did the video on it, she was like, she was in the comment. She was like, I was wondering, is Omar going to show the Clarem up? There it is. There's the picture. Oh, that's awesome. Okay. She was like, yep, yep, exactly. Yep.

Well, shit, man. If she's following your stuff, maybe she will end up. Yeah, I mean, fingers crossed. Yeah. No, I get you. Like, there's editing choices that happen above the authors and such. Yeah. But, well, that was sad and bleak, and I'm glad we did it.

Yeah. So. Comics, baby. Yeah, exactly. Comics will break your heart. Yeah, Stanley had a thing about people with purple skin, too. He would always say, I don't care if you're black, white, red, purple, or a red head. And I'm like, what's with the redhead?

Right, right. And again, the phrase, why am I catching strays? Yeah. But also, I do care of somebody's purple because it means they're choking to death. Yeah, that's different. I mean, yeah, you know. It was, yeah. So, all right.

Ed, what have you gleaned? that we need to find a way to be better about gatekeeping in nerddom and we need to gatekeep against chuds. We need to make it embarrassing and shameful to be a sexist, racist, asshole. You know, and like there are communities. that are better about it than others. Like in the last couple of years, the Warhammer 40,000 community has gotten better about like, no, fuck off with that.

Go away. We don't fucking want you here. But there are still issues where some chud-like stuff is a thing. But like the amount of bullshit over casting. choices in comic book and science fiction movies and TV series and like we we we the rest of us because again I think I think the amount of noise that these assholes make is way in excess of their actual numbers yes and maybe maybe I'm naive thinking that but you know the rest of us need to understand like no no you don't always need to be nice Like, no, you need to fuck off. You're a jerk. Your ideas are bad.

And I don't want you in my playground. Yeah. Like, this is, fuck off, you know. And, and like the, the effect that they have had on the potential for what we want to see happen with these stories. You know, it sucks. It's bold. shit and yeah, I'm

old enough now that like if I start ranting at somebody in the comic book store you know, it sounds like, you know, get off my lawn,

but, you know, I feel like it needs to be said. I want them off my fucking lawn. So I guess that's, that's kind of what I've gleaned. Okay. Cool.

Umar, this was fantastic having you come back. for this. Of course. This is just, yeah, I'm just agog at how I keep getting lucky enough to get people to say yes to come over here and share their brilliance with us. So thank you for that. No problem.

We're going to go ahead and plug various media, things for people to watch, things for people to listen to or read. Ed, what are you going to start us off with? I am going to very, very strongly. Recommend if you can find it anywhere The 1990s I want to say is when it came out Original video animation OVA

of Pat Labor It is a relatively grounded Mecca anime series That Has some great Action sequences And a one wonderful amount of kind of sense of humor, character-driven kind of sense of humor, but still

manages to tell a really good speculative fiction kind of story about this is what the world would look like if we actually had giant robots called labors. And it's, when I say it's grounded, the mecca are not like Gundam swooping around in space. it is very much real robot kind of subgenre kind of stuff and yeah anyway in in the time that I have not been

knee deep in the Civil War I've been I've been getting into a lot of mecca stuff because of Lancer which I've mentioned before on the podcast and so one of one of the properties that I keep going back to like visually is pad labor so highly recommended

where you can find it. How about you? I'm going to recommend decolonizing media fandom, disability race, and Marvel superhero fans by Divya Garg, G-A-R-G. So that one recently came up. It's University of Iowa Press. But if you can find it at a library,

I strongly recommend that because it is expensive in all the places where you buy books. Yeah. But, yeah, I strongly recommend. recommend that. I also recommend again that you go on TikTok and go to Ghost in the HTML because there you will find all kinds of long form and short form video essays by Omar Holman. So those are the things I'll recommend. Omar, what are you going to recommend to us? I'll recommend two shows. One, if you can find it, because you know, physical media is a thing of the past right now and HBO is canceling things

to get a, you know, pay cut on their taxes. But Final Space by Olin Rogers, that show was, it's a space opera, and it's, it's humorous, and then that humor turns into hurt. And I, and that's my favorite type of things. It is, it's two seasons, and the third season is going to be a comic book. He fundraised enough money to get a comic book to complete it out. But something that is on TV, that, again, humor, it's a good mixture of humor and hurt and, and as levity, is Shorzie. on uh on hulu that i love shorzie yeah fuck yeah bud each season each season i cry i'm like how did you how did you keep doing and uh jara keith jacese i'm like i think he's the most

underrated writer on tv because he i i'm like i am crying and it's i think they're they're they'll be on their fifth or sixth season that's coming up yeah um i guess because i think it's i think it's i think it's the fifth and that's part two and i think that's i think we're at the end and I'm like I I it's only 20 minutes and you keep wishing it was longer and it's only six episodes per seat and you keep wishing it was longer and that's such good writing and such acting and they got indigenous folks on there and it's about hockey I don't care about hockey I watch this shit I got a I got a stick in hand and I don't know who I want to I want to get a Sudbury blueberry bulldogs hockey sweater yeah I got I got I got I got a I got a I got a shirt

or did I buy that I buy that I bought that shirt I was like I got it's such a good And it tackles masculinity in such a great way, too, which I'm like, yo, this is really good commentary on that and accountability. It's, again, excellent writing, excellent writing, excellent show. Did you enjoy Letterkenny as well? Did you come to? I did. I did.

I got to go back to finish the, I think I might have caught up to the last season. I'm like, I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait. Allegedly. Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly. There was a scene where it was eight minutes straight of puns about pro wrestling.

Yes. Yes. It was like, oh, this is so good. And then there was the entire episode where they went to the Amish family to help them. Yeah. The Dix. I saw that one. The Dicks.

Just banging boxes, you know. Oh, my God. Just so fucking good. And then Shorzi. And like, Shorzy is so much better for plot. but like but like the the the the jokes are brilliant all the way for it's so fast it's so so fast did you have you ever found your mind your your mind voice talking like shorzy oh yeah oh yeah whatever someone asked a question i always thought yeah yeah

yeah there's been a couple of there's been a couple of times that kids have popped off in my class medley, I've heard, I've heard Shorzie in my head talking to them and I'm like, no. Yeah. No. I tell your mom, but, you know, you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. I got a mortgage to pay.

I can't do that. I don't have tenure yet. I can't, I can't do it. I have tenure. I still don't want to do it. It'll be bad. It's so good, so good. Good recommendation.

Excellent. Yeah. Cool. Well, Ed, where can they find us? We can be found on our website at wauwobo-wabwoba.ggehistorytime.com. Also, our archive is on YouTube at a geek history of time, if you look that up. Either one of those two places or both of those places, please take the time to subscribe. We are also on the Apple podcast app, on the Amazon podcast app, and on Spotify, where you should all

also subscribe and give us the five-star review that you know we deserve. And where can you be found, sir? Let's see, you can find me on the first Friday of every month with capital punishment slinging puns. I'm actually going to be hosting until the end of the year, and then I'll come back to starring again. So come and watch me dress as a zebra. September 4th, October 2nd, I bet you you missed the September 1 already. November 6th and December 4th, 9 p.m. go to sackcomedy spot.com, find your tickets there, get them early so that you guaranteed a seat,

watch everybody spin that wheel and just duel, dual, dual. Somebody might win the belt. You never know. So, yeah, come check it out. Also, if you are in the Sacramento area as well and you have a hankering for going to an art mix at the Crocker Art Museum, I'm going to be fosenting at the art mixes in both September and November, as well as doing my own Saturnalia show in December. Now, when I say I'm going to be, I mean I and Justine Lopez, my comedy partner from Capital Punishment, will be foscenting and we'll be doing a Saturnalia show. I'll be

dressed like a chicken Caesar salad. It'll be a lot of fun. Come take a step of it. So, and Omar, where can you, sir? Oh, I'm on the Black Nure Problems website. And that's where we talk about movie reviews and doing personal essays and video game reviews and branching out and covering a bunch of of lifestyle stuff too. I mean, we'll probably do makeup and travel too. I don't know. We're doing it all. We're doing it all.

We did a huge update to the site. Oh my God. We have to get members. We have to do so much. Oh my God. But yeah, hopefully we have fun things there. We do memes on our social media as well. So check out Black Nour problems.

You'll find me hanging out there, writing, and along with my colleagues. We'll do great stuff as well. Awesome. Very cool. Omar, Omar Holman, thank you so much again for joining us for this. It was a hoot and a half. And I can't wait to see what other stuff you come up with on Ghost in the HTML. We'll have you back if you'll have us.

And for a geek history of time, thank you so much for being here. I'm Damien Harmony. I'm Ed Blaylock. And until next time, keep rolling 20s.