A Geek History of Time - Episode 41 - Captain America and the New Deal Part II

Episode Date: February 15, 2020

Damian and Ed discuss how Steve Rogers / Captain American is the personification of The New Deal.

Like they they advertise one match when crashing a car into one of the wrestlers. Not a total victory of Russia, which now we're seeing. He goes on. He's got a gigantic bag of flaccid dicks. Sorry, conti. Which when you open them up, you find out that they're all cockroaches and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if anybody else is ever going to laugh this hard at anything we say.

We can actually both look out my window right now and see some very pretty yellow flowers that I'm going to be eradicating. This is a geek history of time. We connect an artery to the real world. I'm Ed Blalock, a soon to be 45-year-old world history teacher in Northern California and father of a just now in the last month, two-year-old son. And you are? I'm Damian Harmony. I am a just turned 42-year-old Latin and world history

teacher up here in Northern California. Happy Father of a now 10 year old who can turn Remainters into fractions on Long Division. Thank you. And a 7.5 year old who has identified the Wilhelm scream in every Star Wars movie that has been made. Yeah, because it's there in every single one of them because that's now becoming in joke. Yeah, but she's in on it. She's in on it.

Like, she'll look at me and go, it was there. On any movie where the well-hump screen shows up. Well, because you're raising her right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, all right. So, what do you want to know about today? Well, you know, I'd like to get back into what we were talking about last time with Steve Rogers. Yeah, you know, it's fun.

And his connection to Roosevelt's programs in the 30s. Okay, funny you would mention that because last time we talked about the CCC, we talked about Len Lies. Yes, talked about how a lot of people were unfit for service. Cheers. We started drinking on the show because we're talking about an Irish Catholic man. So Steve Rogers of course is about the only Irish Catholic who doesn't actually drink. Now you see who I like him.

So, we talked about Irish Catholic. There you go. Between the three of us. Between the three of us, we've got it all covered. So the CCC made it so that men were no longer unfit for service because prior to it as you recall, roughly seven out of ten would have been considered malnourished. But we talked about dropping standards because you need to fill the right. So I have a question about that. Go for it. So the seven out of ten would have qualified as being malnourished. Yes.

They would have been labeled or qualified, be their own word, but they would have, they would have fit the standard for malnourished. Yes. Is that, or was that, because of the depression, or was that just, you know, the distribution of resources in pre-World War II America, because of what people were doing to make a living and being predominantly rural society. I mean, do we know how much of that

can be blamed on the depression? A fair amount, because you do have soup kitchens and propping them to feed people daily. You have people doing work a day work. You have people burning a lot of energy and everybody's skinny. Okay. Well not everybody. The the teaming masses are. Yeah. And you also have how to put this. Yes, you have the depression. That's that's a huge part of it. And yes, it's because we're a part

mostly rural society. You might remember Roosevelt promised a chicken in every pot. Yes. That was considered like a ridiculous promise because back then chicken was... Well chicken was expensive. Yes. Oh I'm trying. I did a family history interview in the eighth grade. I interviewed all three of my surviving grandparents at the time and my grandfather, my dad's dad, had grown up in Iowa. Okay. And when the depression hit, he was actually in college in Texas.

Okay. And the family lost the business. They had run a men's clothing store. Okay. The hammer dashery. And my great grandfather wound up working in the store that he had owned previously. But one of the things that it was either my grandfather or his wife, my dad's mom, mentioned was that chicken was a big deal. Chicken was relatively expensive.

Yes. Chicken was a big deal. Chicken was relatively expensive. Yes. And I'm trying to remember what it was, they had poultry on a regular basis, but it wasn't chicken. I'm trying to remember if it was turkey, but there was a different,

there was, she mentioned a different, I must have been in my grant, and now I'm hearing it, and it was my grandmother that said it, now it should be noted that my father's mother was the daughter of a doctor from Long Island, New York. So they were not in her childhood, they were not poorly off. There were other circumstances after that.

But yeah, so Chikamuni report was a big deal. And what I thought was interesting about that is I've seen videos of they had because farming was collapsing, monocropping turned it into dust and you had rabbits just coming in droves and they had rabbit slaughters where you have these men just wielding cudgles and they fence in an area and they just wait in and just smash the rabbits in the heads. I mean, little bunny foofoo. Just go, go, go. The thing is, they didn't eat any of them. Because he did just a deep rabbit?

I guess it was like a culture rabbit. It was in stores at the time. So, I'm like, maybe you just don't eat hair or jackrabbit, but I'm sorry, y'all are hungry. There's meat. Well, I'll tell you what, but I have hair or jackrabbit, but I'm sorry, y'all are hungry. Well, there's meat. God, well I'll tell you what, I've having eaten jackrabbit. Uh huh.

Jackrabbit. Yeah, like wild hair. Yeah. You really, I will say, you gotta find a way to cook it that will break it the hell down. It's a stew meat. Yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

and he's still souping. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, I think I think there's a cultural thing and I think you got in the way quite honestly. But that is that does that does seem weird. But it should like that adds to malnourishment. Yeah. Yeah. So back to this fictional. Yeah. Yeah. fictional Irish Catholic orphan son of an immigrant family, Steve Rogers, Stephen to his friends, was a 20 year old 98 pound weakling who was deemed too scrawny for service

in the military. He was a fine arts student. Graphic designer? Not designer, just an artist, a painter who could have sought employment under the WPA at that time. Okay. But instead, he kept trying to join the army because he was virantly anti-fascist. Well, yeah. Yeah. Did I mention that he was also from, you know, issue number one, from the cover of issue number one. Yes. His, his, his sympathy for Antifa is undeniable. Yes. Did I mention he's also crippled by about with polio as a kid?

No. Yeah, really? Yeah. Okay. So anyway, he keeps getting rejected. Finally, because he's overhurt. He's overhurt pleading with the MEPs official, military entrance processing station,

to let him join, despite being 4F by General Chester Phillips, Dr. Joseph Reinstein, later retcon to Abraham Erskine, injects him with a highly volatile and untested experimental serum called the Super Soldier Serum, and also exposes him to even more experimental things called Viterate. That's right.

Now, once this combination's given to him, as we all know, Anatsi Spy kills the doctor who hasn't fully committed the experiment to his notes. Okay, stop, stop, okay, because that's, here's the deal. That happened so much in melodrama, three color comics. We'll write it down later. Let's try it. We'll write it down, either. Let's do it. Yeah. That happened so often. It is a, it is a recognized tro. Yes. Something like didn't take any notes, no, no surviving research. Yeah. Was that actually explicitly stated?

Yes. There's no time. Yes. I haven't been able to write it all down. We just got to do it. Yeah. Okay. Time's of the essence.

And the formula is forever lost as a result. And Steve is the singular individual. Yeah. Now I want to just step away for a second. It turns out he wasn't a singular individual. In later retconnings and later stories. They unpack it more because we like our prequels now. Turns out that Isaiah Bradley was actually one of the first super soldiers.

He was an African-American who was experimented on. Yeah, apparently without knowledge. Right. Apparently before they even thought to write down notes because at least they thought to write down notes with Steve. But like, there's a really interesting cool story there. We're not here for that, but it is worth mentioning. It's really picking up and reading.

Very much. Now, he is Steve Rogers at this point is the height of human potential. He is stronger, he is faster, he's no longer afflicted with the scrawlininess or the polio. And he grow, he gets taller. Yes, in a matter of minutes. He is faster. He's no longer afflicted with the scrawianist or the polio and He he grow it gets taller. Yes in a matter of minutes in yeah and and It's it's I just want to include the aside the probably everybody who listens to us all four of you already know

but When they were when they were making the film Chris Evans had been had been wearing Baggy clothes to conceal his shape when he was on set, you know, so nobody But him and his personal trainer Do what he actually looked like. Oh wow, okay, and so when do what he actually looked like. Oh wow, okay. And so when they have that moment,

when the pot opens up and he steps out and he's standing there and there's all the steam and he's glistening with sweat because he's just been through that ordeal. When I'm forgetting, I'm picking Carter and I'm forgetting the actress's name. Mm-hmm. When she has that great character moment,

where she just kind of reaches out and touches him actresses name when she has that great character moment. Where she just kind of reaches out and touches him and then pulls her hand back because she realizes what she's doing. That is not in the script. That was the actress being stunned by what it was that he had. Haley Atwell, thank you. And also a side note, another side note related to that, even at the height of his physical training for the part of Captain America, Chris Evans had to go without drinking anything or eating anything for something like 24 hours

before shooting to get his, to get that level of definition because that literally just doesn't happen. Right, I mean, that's what you see on muscle mags, is that they're on diuretic, so it's really close. Like forever. And they could only have him do anything,

when they were doing those shots on those days, he would have to sit down after shooting for a couple of minutes, because if he stood up for very much longer, he'd faint. Yeah. And then all the action sequences, you know, you'll notice he has his shirt on. Yes. Because there's no way he could stay that defined

and actually do anything active. Yeah. Because he just passed out. Yeah. You know, in the interest of, you know, continuing to hammer home the lesson that, you know, men have to face unrealistic appearance expectations as well. Yes. So anyway, so Viteray's, all the notes are lost.

Yep. Super Soldier Serum, he becomes the pinnacle of human physical achievement. In minutes. In minutes. It's instantaneous. Which none of us could do, many of us can't do in our lifetime. No. And he did it with the creativity and the help of the federal government. Yeah.

Okay. New Deal. Yeah, I'm gonna argue this is Department of Defense. So... Still the government. Still the government. Yeah. And, you know, he then goes through a rigorous training program, paid for by Uncle Sam. Yeah, because a body at the height of human potential is still just human potential. So after three months of gymnastics, combat training, tactical training, he's actually ready for his first mission, and he did in three months what it takes men years to learn And he did it with the creativity and help of the federal government Okay, I see it's gonna be a continuing through line here. Yes that that government health care can actually be good for you

Yeah, so so as part of his his Being the the pinnacle of what human achievement. Yeah. This has been pointed out in other sources before. He does not suffer from fatigue. True. Because lactic acid doesn't build up in his muscles. Yeah, must be nice.

Because he just he reabsorbs it as fast as he produces it. Yeah. His, I'm trying to remember what it was. Doesn't bru easily eat it? He doesn't, he doesn't, Bruce easily, he recovers the biggest thing in the coming time. He recovers as you get out of your 30s. I'm going to say, I'm not going to name the decade you get into. But as you get out of your 30s, especially, if you do anything strenuous, you're going

to remember that you did something strenuous, you're going to remember that you did something strenuous for days. Oh yeah. And let's not even get into the refractory period. It's... Alright, that's tough. I know what you're talking about. So yeah.

So let's take stock for a second. Okay. Steve Rogers, 98 pound weakened, weakling, poliostricken, unfit for service, without a mom or a dad, without gainful employment, an art student living in New York City wanted to join the army and fight those who would threaten the freedoms of those who couldn't defend themselves. He wanted to do this himself. He's given medicine, he's given health care, he's given training, and given employment, all in preparation for a fight with fascism.

Yes. An ideology that's based on one's blood quantum and their destiny. Go ahead. Okay, there's an interesting, blonde hair blue-eyed Steve Rodd. Well, yeah, blonde hair blue-eyed, yeah. Okay, so there's a pregnant pause there.

There's an interesting thing to be said about the fact that though the fascists had this the succession was you know destiny and and blood and blood purity blood quantum. How do you want to put it? The guy that became How do you want to put it? The guy that became not, as you're saying, the avatar of these social programs,

but also the avatar of our will to beat the shit out of those guys. Yes. There is a really strong component of the idea of destiny in his story because he gets discovered because he's in that Mepp's place arguing with that guy when the general happens to be there.

I would say I get that, but he is not destined to become him. Okay. He finds his destiny through his persistence, through his Americanness. Okay. Ah, yes, his plucky plucky plucky persistence determination. I can do this all day. Yeah, I can do this all day. I'm going to do this until yeah, and and okay. He is, I had another thought, but it went away.

Go ahead. He is the living avatar of the New Deal Democrat. Okay. Oh, that was the other thing I wanted to say. Oh, okay. Sorry. That's okay. But he is, he has what he had prior to the Viterase and the Serum was, I'm gonna throw another trope out here.

Steve Rogers is a determinator. Yes. He is, I'm going to do this. Like I have set my mind on this course. Yes. And you, I can do this all day. You can beat the shit out of me. I'm gonna get right back up.

I'm gonna keep going. Yep. I'm, you're just, you're not gonna stop. The only way you're gonna stop me is you're gonna fucking kill me. And good luck doing that., you know, yeah, um, and that You know in in the film Erskin mm-hmm talks about his innate moral character and his innate, you know goodness and being A weak man. He is now his strongest. Yeah, a weak man who stands up to bullies

And he is now a strong man who knows what it was to be weak. Yep. And all of that is valid and meaningful and important part of the reason that like Steve Rogers is who I want to grow up to be. But there's also the fact that he always was an unstoppable determined person. And I think he was a juggernaut without the bulk.

Yeah, and that I think is an important point when we talk about the fact that there's, there is this assistance that it gets. And I think there's a message there that we need to rely on our Americanness, which is stubbornness or determination or lucky, never give upness. You know at the same time. Yeah. So I think Steve Rogers, because they write this in the 1941, okay. I think this is one of the few times that writers were actually conscious of their own intent.

When he came of age, LaGuardia was the mayor of New York, and he LaGuardia was a huge New York New Dealer despite the fact that he was hellish-short. New York benefited greatly from the New Deal under LaGuardia, the mayor, Fiorrello LaGuardia. And American labor benefited a lot too. LaGuardia gave a lot of relief to immigrants and to minorities which then helped stimulate the local economy in a very Kenzian wet dream. Yeah well you know you put money at the at the bottom of the system. It gets picked up by the roots of whatever you're trying to grow. Now, as early as 1934, which coincidentally is the same year that the Wagner Act came out,

which legitimized unions and gave unions federal backing, you know, with the creativity and help of the federal government. LaGuardia was outspoken against Hitler and his regime in 1934. His sister, LaGuardia's sister, was held as a political prisoner by the Nazis. She lost her husband in the camps and she's one of a very few American citizens who was kept in a Nazi concentration camp. Really? And when the Nazi boon came around threatening the safety of Joe Simon, LaGuardia, the mayor of New York, a comic book fan, promised him the city of New York, and I quote, the city of New York will see to it that no harm will come to you. Nice. Good. That would have been the mayor that that would have been the mayor.

Brooklyn Nazis. I hate Brooklyn Nazis. All right. That would have been the mayor that Steve Rogers would have voted for. Yeah. He was an Irish Catholic immigrant, son living in Manhattan. Yeah. He would have voted for the Democrat Italian short guy who stood up to the Nazis for Joel Simon. More over labor on the rise, co-opted in the double v campaign. They're especially active in New York, which means Steve Rogers as an art student would have been rubbing his scrawny little elbows with WPA laborers, artists, writers, etc cetera, anyone who was in his class. Yeah.

And he's likely in his friend group too, to be an artist in New York in the 30s meant that you were in with the left, capital L left. As a fine art student with no parents, he's not going to Columbia. He's not even going to state college like Reed Richards, Ben Grimm, and Viktor von Doom did in the 60s.

In the 1930s, the odds are that if you're a poor kid from Manhattan, you would have found admission in City College of New York, which had a good arts program, and a virantly anti-fascist anti-Nazi student body. Probably because a lot of the student body at the time were young and educated, I won't give you one guess as to what their religion was. Jewish? Yeah. Okay. By the way in the 1930s the NBA was was filled with Jewish basketball players. Really? It's the inner city sport. So whoever is at the bottom of the city. So whoever is okay. Yeah. Alright. That makes perfect sense. So when he, Steve Rogers, is marching into every maps that he find, forging his name, committing identity fraud. He's doing it as a new dealer, as an anti-fascist and as a pro-labor artist.

He's also doing it specifically to fight Nazis. He's not joining up to go fight the Japanese. He's in the fall of 1940 long before Pearl Harbor. He's not doing it to defend us from having been attacked because it's before Pearl Harbor. He's doing it to fight the Nazis. Also, FDR figures into his comics really early on, and the very first issue, FDR is recommending that they bring in, quote, a character out of the comic books to stop sabotage and the quote vermin who are trying to slow the defense industry.

This is before we're at war with anyone by the way. Yeah. And in doing this, FDR Greenlight's Operation Rebirth. Now you don't have much of his origin after that. He does a lot of weird things because it's the 1940s cartoon comics and it's wacky as wild. And by the way, he's not Chris Evans. I mean, he's not this gorgeous specimen of a man.

He's a fairly square, straight, scrawny kind of guy. Yeah, because, you know, that was the aesthetic. The comic artist work on deadlines. That was the aesthetic at the time. Yeah, so But you go for it fast forward to 1981, okay, and I had to go all the way to 1981 Which is interesting. Yep. Okay one month after Reagan took office and began dismantling the new deal with gusto They did a flashback episode in the Captain America comic where they retcon and retread a lot of his origin story and in this issue

FDR gives him the round shield. Really? Yes. Because, okay. Because we've all seen it. We've all seen FDR with the cigarette and handing in the round shield. Cap going, oh, this will be more aerodynamic. They came from a 1981 comic book retconning when that happened. Now you see him having the round shield in issue number two of the actual cap in America because the damn near got sued for using the same design as another comic book company for a character called the Sentinel. You gotta change it by least 10% so they round shielded. So this 81 comic explains it and gives us a few panels to explain it.

Regardless, Cap's transformation was absolutely a new dealer shot against fascists and their blood ideology. And I keep bringing up blood ideology because he gets injected and it altruises by chemistry. Steve was an artist and a frail man, both of whom Hitler railed against in mind-com. Yes, he hated modern art and he hated people who were frail. Yeah, well because weakness needed to be purged from the Reich.

Exactly. And modern art was... A Jewish conspiracy. Yes, but what I was gonna go with was was Nonsense and a goal decadent destructive to the the moral order of the Reich Mm-hmm and and yeah, and he's also he's transformed by a Jewish scientist and intellectual So okay, so I know Erskin is explicitly Jewish right in in the films But but but Ryan, what was it?

Steen. Ryanstein is Ryanstein Jewish? Yeah. Like stated he was. Joseph Ryanstein. Joseph Ryanstein. It's a, his name is spelled J-O-S-E-F. Okay.

Like it's, it's very Jewish. Okay. So, how do we put this? He's a frail artist and he's transformed British scientist and intellectual. This is the four quadrant of Hitler hates. So Steve Rogers stands right at the absolute center of the Venn diagram. Yes. Everybody Hitler really, really, really really hate. Really hate it. Yeah.

OK. And at first, a cap fights our enemies here at home. And by our enemies, I mean greedy tax dodging rich pricks who didn't want to pay their fair share into a system that they were bringing relief to Americans and also the Nazi Boond both hand in hand. greedy rich pricks working with the Nazi. The Nazi Boond both hand in hand greedy rich pricks working with the Nazi the Nazi Boond greedy rich pricks who didn't want to pay their fair share of

taxes into a system that would help everyone yeah and a Nazi Boond he beats the shit out of them at their summer camp in upstate New York by the way the Nazis are kind of responsible for summer camps in New York. Nice. That's a weird thing. I'm going to say this again. The authors and the artists who created Captain America who live in New York had Captain America

who is from New York go up state and beat the shit out of the Nazis in their own summer camp, which is actually in New York. Got it. State, New York. Yeah, upstate. Upstate, New York. They had several Nazi camps.

And real war keeps, so this was, don't know, no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, This isn't metropolis and fucking awesome. I'm real life-ficking fucking you up. Yes, yeah, okay. I'm shipping. I'm, I'm shipping his fist to your face. You're shipping his fist Yes. Yeah, okay. I'm shipping. I'm shipping his fist to your face. You're shipping his fist to your face,

your face to the floor. Yep. That's the love triangle I want to see in my, okay. Yeah. Got it. And the sabotage he's fighting. It's a great triangle, but like, whoo, compelling.

I'll take it. Yeah. The sabotage that he's fighting is the tax dodging he's fighting is always German and Nazi based. And it's always white guys who pass as Americans. There's no anti-Japanese stuff yet. Other comics took on the Japanese. And Cap still fought them, but never as fifth colonists.

That wasn't the worry in New York. Well, no. Right. That wasn't the worry in New York. Well, no right in New York. It's there's a worry about Germans passing like Americans and sabotaging by getting people to not want to pay their taxes Okay, yeah, so once the war is in full swing he goes to Europe not to Japan Yeah, he's blowing up tanks. He's punching Nazi Nazi higher-ups including Gary Yeah. He's blowing up tanks. He's punching Nazi, Nazi higher-ups, including Gary. Oh really? He decks him.

Good. Further proof? Yeah, yeah. Further proof that he's a new dealer. He's never going off against strikers. He's never going against the poor, and he's never going against marginalized folks. It's not like there weren't riots in Alabama by ship workers because 12 black guys had gotten hired. That happened. He's not breaking up strikers. He's not attacking the black communists.

He's going after Germans and tax cheats. He's always defending from and attacking against the more powerful who don't do their fair share. And that's a constant thread through his early comics. His physicality is gained from the government's program called Rebirth. Okay. Just point out that that's another R. Okay. Just point out that that's another R. Oh, okay. It's put up to use after training to go fight the Nazis.

Yes, like the CCC. It's why I spent so much time on that day, so they can conservation for the last time. Yeah. Just like the WPA, just like the TVA. He is what the New Deal was made to do. Remember the WPA puts people to work for propaganda. Yeah. The TVA electrifies things so that people to work for propaganda. Yeah. The TVA

electrifies things so that we can build airplanes quicker. Yeah. The CCC gets us young men who are healthy enough. Yeah. He's all three. All right. And he is what the New Deal has become and what it was made to do. When the war first started, the New Deal's programs were very much reorganized and aimed at the war effort. It was a total war effort, and the recovery programs were not an exception to that. Young men were trained toward the war efforts, not just to keep them off the streets anymore. The New Deal was institutionalized Antifa. Okay, yeah.

Now Caps and Tifa roots can also be found in the fact that after the war, his appeal as a commie fighter was not really all that popular. And this is because despite the fact that we were suddenly sworn enemies with former allies, he starts as a leftist icon, and the circle simply couldn't be squared that way. It wasn't without effort, but ultimately it failed.

So they literally put him on ice. Yeah. Now when he gets unfrozen and brought into the silver age of comics, he gets rehabilitated. And Marvel even went so far as to retcon, anti-communist cap into a man who had surgically altered his face to look like cap, to dose himself with an unstable super soldier serum the first of many and went commie hunting so The cap who was beating up communist was actually not cap. It was a guy who did surgery and yeah Unstable yes, they went that far. Oh, it gets better the problem for this guy was that his dose didn't work perfectly And he began to see communist everywhere So all the communist punching yeah He was medicinal McCarthyism

Whoa that got retconned in the 60s Well, yeah, it would have been in the 60s, yeah, cuz he gets thought out They're like well, what about all this shit that he did? I don't want him actually yeah, he gets thought out Yeah, and you think about when he gets thought out JFK's in office Oh, yeah, a Democrat new New frontier. Right. One who despite being the prototypical cold warrior, which he was, was still pushing New Deal policies at home. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So Cap was back and a lot of effort goes toward. Well, and he was, and he was not only pushing new deal type policies, the space race was getting a man to the moon,

and the reason I bring that up is because that is the, we're going back to the technofuturist, techno-utopian kind of ideals that lie at the roots of the idea of creating. Which is inherently the first place. It's also a very leftist approach, is using science for the betterment. I'm not saying that the right didn't use science, they certainly did. That's where he gets Iclon B. But I would point out, and also you get the guys in charge of NASA, let's be fair.

But I would say that you had futurists who were very right winged, who were artists, it was a paradigm shift in a group, not so much as a scientific advancement group. It's a different thing. Now, the thing is, and it's interesting that you bring that up, because CAP was never the future loving guy that Reed Richards was. Right?

The going to the moon ship was fantastic for. CAP was a man out of time and a war hero. He was forever that. Now, the result was, readers could be pulled back to a simpler time when the government promoted the common welfare and a time where not incidentally the new deal and alphabet agencies were the tools which were used to smash fascism. Okay now yeah and then and then the super villains that show up after he gets thought out in the 60s are baronzimo. Yes, unreconstructed dots.

In fact, baronzimo, a great that we use the word unreconstructed, he had glue, glue, a mask to his face and he was in Brazil, where a lot of Nazis had gone off to South America. Yeah, the boys from Brazil. Yeah. You know. So all of this leads up to my favorite comic series.

So I'm fast forward, quite a bit, to the Civil War. And I catch a lot of shit for it, but I love the Civil War. Not the movie, although in my eyes, it's still actually a really good movie. It just. I agree. I think it's a great film. It was different. But I do too. Okay, but I

I have a soft spot. It's kind of like I like I like returning to the Jedi better, but I think my favorite is still gonna be episode four Okay, and in all honesty probably episode 7 since that is episode 4. Yeah. It's done better. Yeah. You know, okay. So it's bigger. But I'm not talking about the movie though, but like I said, it is a good movie. The comic series though. Yeah, of course. And we have a whole episode on the comic series. There's one two episodes. Well, it's a me episode, it's a probably two, yeah. Yeah. But here's the argument that is circulated from the beginning. Okay.

The Civil War is a cutout for gun control. Yeah, and we talked about this. Yeah, and well, we could certainly pour plenty into that empty vessel. It doesn't really hold any water. Yeah. It wasn't about gun control. It's not about vigilantes versus the need for government to stop the use of automatic weapons. Yeah. It's not that argument. It's about civil rights versus security. Yes. Yeah, versus the need for security. Um, and this is where I want to show you some panels from the Civil War.

Cool. Although I dare say that we've also covered this in a different episode. Yes, probably. Let me pull up the argument here between these two fellas and forgive me. Here we go. So, as you can see, there's an argument here between Iron Man and Luke King. And Luke King? Oh yeah, no, we did we did yeah yeah so so Tony is standing there with black I want to say black and area but I know wrong because you see kept marvel standing behind him in the in the black and gold outfit which is why I thought black and area anyway so Tony I need to know Luke because at midnight if you't, you and Jessica are effectively criminals again.

Next panel is silent. There are no speech bubbles. We just see Luke sitting with Jessica having her arm on the back of the chair behind him. He doesn't say anything. Tony. Now, I talked to, wait, I talked to the powers that be, your sorted past is all being swept under the rug,

all that trouble in your youth. None of it will affect your standing as a sanctioned Avenger. Next panel, Jessica, holding their baby, says, what about me, Mr. Stark? Yeah, I have powers too, and you know what? I don't want to use them and I have no plans to use them and I don't want to work for the United States of corporate Sellouts what about someone like me? Interesting that she should that in in a Comic from

Mm-hmm when when was remind me what year we're talking about oh five oh five oh she's six she's using language that we are hearing now from the the progressive the the hard progressive wing of the Democratic Party That that level of class That's awareness Was was not that level of class, class awareness, class warfare. Class warfare was not normal at that time. But in this, anyway, so since the United States corporate cell, that's what about someone like me.

Tony puts his foot in it, wellness is cage, she cuts him off, Jones. And he corrects himself well, Jessica, you'll sign in and we'll deal with that when the time comes. You have a newborn baby. No one's going to ask you to go fight Dr. Doom. Her response, bet your ass. Yeah. At which point, Captain Marvel steps in Jessica, your cut off again by Jessica Jones. Carol, don't, just your military, you like being told what to do. Don't, in fact, we hate it, which is an over simplification

of the military mindset, but understandable. Carol, the country has shifted and we're doing everything we can to keep everything nice and you're compromising yourself past any level of, and now, Luke speaks. Yeah, we've been silent. Can't go wrong.

He's been categorically not saying anything through this whole page. And he cuts in with the world ain't a nice place. And next page, I assume Luke continuing, if it was, we wouldn't be who we are. You're trying to make the world something it ain't and worse you're selling yourselves to do it and who are you selling to huh. What you're trying to do can't be done. It's not human nature. Tony still still can't read a room this guy. Tony, Luke, I need to know will you sign on? Like, you're so like that. Yes. Yes. I'm going to conditional like a maybe can put you down for a solid maybe. Luke, guess, we'll find out at midnight, which like if you know how to read a room, no. No, he's not.

Right. You know, Tony, Luke, they will come to your home and they will take you out of here. And if that doesn't work, they'll call us in next. Do you want that? Is that what your goal is? Just like sounding like every righteous tone policing white person in any kind of conversation where any member of minority gets like angry about anything.

I'm just trying to have a discussion. I'm just asking you a question. You want to turn this into a fight. Like you want. Why are you so hostile? Yeah. Luke still remarkably holding it together. Because if I were in his shoes, I'd already have thrown the couch through. Well, I would also point out Iron Man shows up in armor. Well, yeah, like he shows up. Right? Yes. Yes, this whole thing I've been

saying Tony this whole time. but Tony is there as Iron Man. Yes. I don't know what Mark that is, but yeah. And so, Luke's response, oh, is it Mississippi in the 50s now? And of course, Tony does the thing. Tony, everyone wants to do. Put his hands up, oh, come on. Yeah. The difference is, Everyone wants to do puts puts his hands up. Oh come on

The difference is yeah says Luke stop it will you stop? And Luke doesn't stop right you know to his credit getting pulled out of your home in the middle of the night for being Different is the same now as it was then Jessica jumps in with does have a timeless quality to it. Luke, don't it? Iron man, no, this is about breaking the law. Slavery used to be a law. Luke, you're twisting this and I won't hear it. Huh? Boy, are you right, you won't hear it and I won't hear it. Huh?

Boy, are you right, you won't hear it. You won't hear it. Luke, you should hear it, you should turn those robot ears on real loud because it is what it is, baby. You're perverting it all. You're distorting the ideas you said we stand for to the point that when you were done with all of this, the ideas won't mean anything. You'll stand for nothing except whatever they tell you to. Uh-huh.

Uh, and Tony says if you join, you can make sure that exact thing doesn't happen. Right. So you can be part of the solution, you know. Now, I will acknowledge that the Federal Assault Weapons Band sunset it out of existence in September of 2004. Yeah. Anybody latched on with that as the theme motif here.

But Luke, I'm going to say Luke Cage puts the point on it really well that this is about civil rights. This is, these are people. And in the other episode, we talked about, the second amendment is a property rights issue. Right. And it's about a tool. Right.

And it would be natural for Tony to approach it in the way that you would approach somebody having access to a tool because that's what his as you mentioned. He talked about the destructive power yeah. His his powers are all based around a tool. Yes. Whereas Luke kind of doesn't like he was done it was also done to him in prison. Yeah it was inflicted on him. Yep. And he can't turn it off. Right. Ben Grimm can't stop being eight feet tall and orange and rocky. And so it isn't a property thing.

It is a civil rights thing versus collective security. Right. And so the other side of the equation still remains the same. It's collective security. Right. And so, you know, the other side of the equation still remains the same. It's collective security versus an individual. Right, the difference is it's not a property right. It's a personal right to freedom of existence. Mm-hmm.

Kind of thing. Yeah. So at five seconds after midnight, they knock on cage's door And his only responses Incredible and then and then they try to arrest him and he breaks a couch over them. Brooklyn. Yeah, he breaks Brooklyn, well, no, he's not in Brooklyn. They're in Health kitchen. Yes, he breaks health kitchen and so he basically he resists them. Yeah. And some young African American gentlemen are filming it.

Yep. Which is interesting, because it's the days before smartphones. Yeah. And then. What I'm actually has a micro compact camcorder. Yep. Yep. And then, which we call it, well, we'll get to it in a second, because it kind of pays

off. So war comics series came out 2006, 2007. So I get that people would see it as an anti-gun pro-pro-pro-broadly rights and, you know, a club to security argument. And on surface level they'd be right, but when it came out, Civil War was also in the midst of the Patriot Act as we talked about. And as an epilogue, there was a poem about Japanese Civil War was also in the midst of the Patriot Act, as we talked about. Yes.

And as an epilogue, there was a poem about Japanese internment about the loss of rights and what it meant to be an American. That is also, you know, those are pages that I have also copied. Yeah. It's beautiful and it's heart-rending. And it's in the other episode, so I encourage you to go listen to that. Definitely. And now Mark Miller, the writer for all of it, has a heart on for

libertarian and mecanian political statements. But this is one of those times that those lined up with the ideals of the political of the New Deal. So what cap is fighting for isn't the Second Amendment? It's explicitly the Fourth Amendment. It's the right for a citizen to literally sit in his own home, bother nobody and not have to answer for it. And Luke Cage says that, almost word for word. Now, what I'd like to point out is, Luke Cage is being assaulted in these pictures, right? By the government. By the government. By the government. They haven't served the word. right now is Luke Cage is being assaulted in these pictures. Yes. Right?

Yes. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government.

By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government.

By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. By the government. cost playing is daredevil and Steve motherfucking Rogers. That's right. Yes. Okay. Also Falcon plays up in other panels. I really like it because the first thing Cap says is on your feet Mr. Cage. Yeah. Calls a Mr. Ironman showed up in the dude's house called him Luke called Jessica Mrs. Cage Got her name wrong then said Jessica when she when she corrected said Jones. He's like okay, Jessica. He's first naming them

Now no cap is mr. Cage. Yeah, now There's a old school respect going on there. Well, there's an old school respect thing going on there It's very clear that there is a message being sent to the reader about the approach these two guys have To ward the people they're dealing with yes and You know Steve being a product of the 40s. It would be a very pointed thing for him Back in the 40s. Yes. Addressing an African-American man

as a minister would be a very big deal. Yeah. So for him, it's a very big, it is a meaningful point to him in that moment that he's doing that. I think Tony might be less. He's also the strong one because he's from a different generation.

He's from a different generation. But he's also entitled prick. He's also, yes, he's also an entitled prick. He's from a different generation. But he's also entitled prick. He's also, yes, he's also an entitled prick who is like, no, no, no, you know what, look, we're all equals here, let's first things. Yeah. No, no, you're in my god damn house. Right.

You showed up unannounced, you need to show some deference. Yes. Read the god damn room. Now, just so you know, cap is knocking shield soldiers off the building. And one of them says, yes, yes, Captain America into his radio. And I just love that Falcon's there.

And he says, and the Falcon. Please, I have side kicks in as it is. Right, yeah, it's just kind of fun. So Cap shows up to save Luke from shield. And he's got his shield, you know, it's front and center's blocking on the shot. This happens in our previous discussion, so there was a very tense, ominous conversation between Cap and Hill.

Oh, yeah, that's great. That's what we talked about. Yeah. That has already happened in the background where tap very explicitly states why from from his new dealer ideology this is completely basak or yes I also want to bring up here that there's there's a point that comes up in the movie oh yeah yeah that that if I sign on this, I'm going to have to answer to politicians. Yep. And that means they're going to be times when I could do something and you won't let me.

Right. And I have a moral responsibility to do something because I have the capacity to do it. Yep. I have the capacity to do it. And I think that's also, I bring that up because I think it ties in with the whole anti-fascist, you know, new dealer progressive kind of, we have a moral responsibility. Where are the arsenal of democracy? Where are the arsenal of democracy? Yeah.

And it's also, there's an, it's basically the same thing. It's expressed, oftentimes, as the 308 rule. If you have the capacity to do something, you have more responsibility to do something within the context of, you know, if you have a rifle, you have a responsibility to, you know, use it when it's necessary to prevent bad stuff happening. Yeah. So, yeah. So, again, what's Cap there doing?

He's saving Luke Cage from what? The Jack Buttigieg's Secret Police. Yeah. The Gestapo. Yeah. There's not much more that's Antifa than that. No. And what he's really doing is he's helping

to fight for the freedom from fear. Okay. Okay. Cap is the living embodiment from start to finish. Yes. He gets killed by the way. But then it's this weird, weird spirit thing to have a whole thing.

Don't care. But he does get killed as the four freedoms are dying because we're going for security over our rights. Now, here's a fun epilogue to all of this. In August of 2019, Art Spiegelman, the author of Mouse and Mouse 2, he wrote an intro to a Marvel book, Marvel the Golden Age, 1939 to 1949. He was, his, his intro was edited to get rid of an anti-Trump rhetoric that they identified. He said, fuck it.

You don't get to his mind introduction at all. He pulled it entirely. And in so doing, he highlighted the fact that comic books were overwhelmingly an industry launched by Jews and immigrants, and that to claim that they were apolitical is a lie. Quote, in today's all-too-real world, Captain America's most nefarious villain, the Red Skull, is alive on screen and an orange Skull haunts America. Our Spiegelman said that? Yep.

He told the publisher who wanted to remain apolitical that he would not remove it from what he said. They paid him a kill fee and they went with someone else. Yep. Spiegelman said fine, published the essay in an article in the Guardian with the headline of quote, Gold and Age superheroes were shaped by the rise of fascism. Guess who's at the center of that?

Cap. Yeah. shaped by the rise of fascism. Guess who's at the center of that? Cap. Yeah. Now for more fun, just because I like to dig deep on these things, the Marvel Entertainment executive who helped to orchestrate the deal between Marvel and Disney, a guy named Isaac Pearlmother. Okay. Ike Pearlmother. Yeah. He's a former Israeli soldier who came to America in 1967. He started a toy company, which was then bought by Marvel about 25 years ago. Through this, there were bankruptcies and mergers, and he and a partner named Avi Arad managed to get control of Marvel in 1998, away from Ronald Pearlman and Carl Eiken during the bankruptcy. Icon.

Icon. Sorry. Promin and Carl Eiken during the bankruptcy icon icon. I see a agent. Yeah, the only reason I know that is because icon also bought and looted TWA. Oh, that's right. Which my father worked for post icon and you could not mention that name in front of a member of the TWA pilots union without somebody turning and spitting. Nice. Like all of them turning the spitting. Because he, because he looted their fucking pension. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. Well, after that, political maneuvering to get icon out of there and to get promen out of there, a rod and pro mutter began licensing away Marvel

properties to different movie studios. They tried to give away all of the characters to Sony and Sony was like, now we just want Spider-Man. They tried to say, well, you know, for 25 million, you can have everyone. They said, we'll take Spider-Man for 15. It was something like that. Eventually, Kevin Figgie took over from Pro-Mutters, the head of Marvel Studios in 2015. Pearl Mutters influence was long lasting though.

For instance, he stopped the idea of female superheroes getting their own movies. He said, well, you know, supergirl didn't do very well, which was in the 80s. He also replaced Terrence Howard with Don Cheetle. Yeah. Because according to him black people look the same. That's a quote. So why am I bringing this guy up? He's still the chairman of Marvel Entertainment. He's also he's the one who killed the introduction. Yeah. He's also the guy that Marvel TV properties all still report to. Okay. Also from 2015 to 2019, he and his wife have donated neither nearly four million dollars to Trump and Trump's PAC or several of Trump's PACs. Yeah. Political

action committees. Also, he goes to Mar-a-Lago pretty regularly. He's one of the people who's been identified as an unofficial adviser to the president on various issues. Specifically, pro-mutter and two others direct policies at the VA. They're unelected, they're unappointed, they're unaccountable, they make policy, they force VA officials to fly down to Mar-a-Lago to listen to their policy decisions. Guess who puts the bill for that?

You and me. Yeah. Speaklmoan pointed out this relationship in his essay and he said, quote, I like it better this way. It has no more resident meaning than it perhaps would have if it were just an introduction. So, what have you gleaned? That I really want a fanboy assholes to stop saying that they want SJWs to get out of their comic books. Well, they almost got their way because Cap got killed. Yeah, way, get true. True.

Yeah. Uh, but, you know, what we keep every time, every time we talk about comics, on the occasions that we talked about, every single time we talked about, um, even when they were books that, that were done in a time when sexist ideas were just day-reger, you know, looking at eerie Richards. Yeah. And I found it great quote from him the other day. But even when the writers were flawed to us today, They were still writing stories that were clearly political and that

were clearly at the very least allegorical to being social justice issues. Again, you had New York Jewish writers writing about cap in America going up to New York where there were actual Nazi boon camps and beating the shit out of them. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, sorry, you mentioned Reed Richards. So I pull up this one. Yeah, stuff sounding like a wife would find me that gun lady. So yeah. Wow. I also found a wonderful thing with Matt Murdock. The Foggy Nelson is getting brought out.

And Matt Murdock says, you know, well, he's meeting a bunch of really rich people are trying to run Foggy maybe as somebody. And a guy shakes his hand and says, glad to have you aboard Matt. Guess you're pretty proud of Foggy, yeah. And Matt thinks to himself, they're all you're pretty proud of foggy, huh? And Matt thinks so and so. They're all prominent wealthy men. Why do I sense danger? Because so what was that about SJW's

need to work in the comments? Yeah, no kidding. But yeah, it is an insult to the history of the form. Oh, he's seen a marker graduating. and an insult to the history of the form. Oh, he's seen a marker graduating. Okay. Can you tell me about his school class in 1963? Yeah, in 1963, they're out of, I got a counter, one, two, three, four,

five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 out of 10 students, well, 11. Students clearly shown in frame three of them are African-American. Yeah, and one peanut. Yep. And you also have a good experience. Look, man, it's Peter Yann. He's graduating and he's walking alongside.

There are African-American faces in the audience. So what is that about? what is that about representation? Not being necessarily is that about yeah, no, I you know, it is It requires a a truly remarkably blinkered level of ignorance like willful ignorance. Oh, to try to claim that the art form of comics, sequential art, was ever a political.

Like, I mean, you can point to, you know, an individual comic strip or an individual issue of a comic that doesn't have an overt, you know, you know, political kind of message. I guess you could or you could point to like the fifth issue of Captain America and you see Captain America and the killers of the bond, you know, yeah, um, you know, but I but you know you you could point to an individual issue and go well see there's no politics here but then you've got to ignore ones like this where he shows up on the nazi bund and beats the shit out of them yeah like there it is in four colors in in yeah there he is beating the shit out of nazis at in upstate new york yeah repeatedly yeah and there's some unfortunate racism in some of these pictures. Oh, yeah, well. But, you know, 1940s.

Yeah, but at the same time. You know. Yeah, they're, I just, I would, I'd, and so the sentinels begin their search for the fifth column of their hideouts and listen to their plans. They're talking about blowing up a dam and what have you. And it's sure enough you got a worn Steve. You got to do these things.

So yeah, their politics inherent, by the way, this is that picture of Cap getting his picture from. You get in the round shield. Oh yeah, you can tell by the liner, that's clearly it is. That is not the same one style as 40. So it's a retcon, it was a retread.

Yeah. But yeah, a lot of the research I did was a lot of this kind of fun stuff. Yeah. But yes. So that's my takeaway is the same takeaway I have just about every time we talk about this stuff. It's stop telling SJWs to piss off.

You need to piss off. You need to piss off. That's it. Yeah. I don't have anything more more eloquent or pithy at this point. That's what I have. I think it's a damn shame that Captain America who again is the living embodiment of the New Deal. Yeah. Um, that property ends up being in some ways dictated to by a man who is, is terrible, horrible in a supporter of fascism. Yeah. I think perhaps there's something behind, because I remember when this happened,

when Cap went Hydra. Yeah. And you and I were pissed. Oh, I'm still pissed. What if they were signaling the fact that this guy was in charge? I don't know. I haven't done the research on that one. Yeah. That's a lot of heavy lifting that I'm requiring of myself to do that. Yeah. wouldn't be the first time that authors were subversive as shit to their owners, and also writing their own fantasy of what they think would or should happen. And having Cap go fascist at a time where this prick is is milking it and supporting yeah, fascist regime Yeah, you know and making making clap cap really clearly the bad god. Mm-hmm. It's like oh It's under new ownership. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, you know, I mean he even had a hydroshield

Yeah, you can see it in my bathroom. Yeah It's not the only shield I have in my bathroom. Don't worry folks. I have all the shields in my bathroom Yeah, it's really crowded in there. Yeah, it's got a step carefully or just it's like Silver Mages plasitive armor. It's awful. I was thinking it was like the house and enemy mine, but yeah So but yeah, it's it's a damn shame that this this human paracquat is running things at the VA, much less at my beloved Marvel. Yeah. Marvel hasn't had the best history of being run by good people, but their artists sure seem to have a handle on cap for the most part, he again, he is the living embodiment of the New Deal. Yeah. And at a time where we're seeing that having been completely gutted and going as regressively

as we can, it might be a good idea to kind of read what cap really did support. Yeah, there's a great thread on Tumblr that was about the massive, massive heart attack that Steve Rogers would actually cause if anybody actually tried to interview him about politics. Oh, I remember he said, I'm with death. I'm a socialist. You can't say that. What do you mean I can't say that? Well, we had a whole cold war. Right. See, and like, that's not the same thing. Right. And, and, and, and, you know, well, I think his main point was vaccinate your children. That was a separate one. Oh, that's a separate one. Oh, it's everyone and it's not vaccinate your children. It's vaccinate your fucking kids. Yes Steve Rogers. Yeah, Mr Language being being so adamant about it that it's you know

Mr. Rogers. What do you have to say to the American people vaccinate your fucking kids? Steve and You know tell me lucky tell him how sick I was with Scarlett Fever. Tell him about how he's bedridden for a fucking month. You know, and it's just, you know, it's a great bit. Strong man remembering what it was to be weak. And being really pissed about people willfully choosing to, you know, that's shit happening again.

But yeah, no, it is important, I think, for us to be reminded of those aspects of our national character that Cap represents. Yeah. And that Cap has always been an aspirational figure. Yeah, he's not realistic, he is the Paragon. has always been an aspirational figure. Yeah, he's not realistic, he is the paragon. Yeah. He is the extent of human potential. And he is like physically

and then ideologically and spiritually, he is the guy we want our country to be embodied by. Yeah. So. Well, so where can we find you on social media? You can find me at eHBlalock on the Twitter machine. You can find us at Geek History Time on the Twitter machine. And you can be found at Duh Harmony. That's two H's in there on the Twitter and on the Instagram.

And you can also find me planted next to the river of truth, saying no, you move. Yeah, well, yeah, me probably on the opposite. Well, no, we'd be on the same side of the river, but yeah, yeah, me there with you. I am shorter, so unfortunately, I have to wear buckies out. Shit.

I've got a poor, sartorial choice. Oh boy, I'm not a good choice for cap either. Yeah, well, you know, but it's not a good choice for cap either. Yeah. Well, you know, but let's let's not bother. It is what it is. Yeah. So all right. Well for geek history of time I'm Damien Harmony and I'm at Blalock and until next time keep punching Nazis. you