A Geek History of Time - Episode 42 – BSG and GWOT Part I

Episode Date: February 22, 2020

Damian and Ed Discuess

I said good day sir. You don't ever plan anything around the Eagles because the Eagles represent the grace of God. You heathen bastards. One of vanilla Nabish name. Well you know works are people too. I'm thinking of that one called they got taken out with one punch. So he's got a wall, a gole, a gole, and a wall. Every time you mention the Eagles, I think done Henley.

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Yeah, right. Actually, that's a frighteningly good analogy. Very accurate. I am a father of a nine, almost 10 year old and a seven year old here in Northern California. And I am here for this podcast because you promised me a fandom that I rather enjoyed twice over. Yeah, well, yeah, we both did.

Yeah, we both did. So tell me what you think of first. Okay. That's how I want to open this. What do you think of? All right, that's a good one. All right. You know what, and now I could go for a brief right now.

I'm gonna tell you. Yeah. But no, what do you think of first when I mentioned Battlestar Galactica? What is the first image? I'm gonna say image. What is the first image that pops into your head? Startlingly hot blonde woman.

And I don't like blonde. Yeah. And she was like, uncomfortably gorgeous. Yeah. Hang on, I mean, for a reason. Yeah. And then, what else? Fat Liadama.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Those are the two things that I think of. All right. I find it interesting. Yeah. Then I say that, and the first of the two series that you go to is the newer one.

Yeah, yeah, well I'm as old as you. Fuck you, man. Producer George just gave me two birds with one stone. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, the toast, the full full on yeah, that's a good one. Okay, the first thought I have when you say that is face from On the Watching it walk by yeah, yeah, yes, star mark. Dirk Benedict. Dirk Benedict. Yes, Dirk Benedict who I thought that was a character name. Yeah, well number one number two a last turned out to be kind of a regressive asshole. Wow, wouldn't have seen that coming.

Yeah, wow. Next you're going to tell me George Pappard was a misogynist. I have no evidence either way, but sadly I wouldn't be shocked. Oh, the 18 is evidence actually because when Amy was not brought back for the next season because he was like, well, we don't need women on this team. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah shit And he got his way cuz he loved it when a plan comes together. Yeah, yeah, but back to yeah, okay Okay, so the old battle started galactica much more browns Yeah, there was a guy dressed up like a hawk. There was a little joy that would go be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be a little droid that would go beety, beety, beety, beety. No, that's that's that's no god damn it. No. That's that's buck Rogers. Oh, which was itself a retread of a much older black and white cereal. Yeah, with

Ming the conqueror. Yeah, yeah, the rest of us. Yeah, and we've and we've talked about it and conquer yeah yeah the rest yeah the end we've and we've talked about it and and no damn it no that's flash fucking Gordon oh right that's the one with Wally West oh and no is Wally West and uh and it was Wally West and the daughter of the police commissioner's son. Actually, I was actively telling me, squeezing the life out of me. So anyway, having established that, I think I have a theory about why it is when I say a Battlestar Galactica, the newer series is the one that resonates first for you. Now, this is a theory. Before you commit to it, fully, I want to point out that I never watched it when it was airing. I only ever watched it after the fact. Yes. Okay. I was about two or three or five years after. Okay. I actually think that may strengthen my theory. Do it.

In a nod way. I want to hear it. But we're going to come to that. Yeah. So I want to start with the history of the show. OK. For this one. So Battlestar Galactic, originally aired, 1978, 1979 on ABC.

Wow. OK. The pilot aired on September 17th, 1978. It was, where do I have it here, pilot, the pilot movie broadcast was actually interrupted on the East Coast for live announcement of the signing of the Camp David Accords. Oh, wow.

So you have an idea of when it happened. And the original show lasted a season, it was 24 episodes. One hour or half hour? I wanna say half hour. Okay. I have to look that back up, but right now, I think half hour. Okay.

And so it's 1978, 1979, it's a saga about a bunch of people And so it's 1978, 1979. It's a saga about a bunch of people in space. What does that sound like as a pop culture phenomenon that might have been going on also around that time? A bunch of people in space, saga. Yeah. I know Dallas had just come out that same year. Yeah.

I'm thinking it's probably people are. Yeah, yeah, oil tycoons. Okay, who shot Starbuck? Yeah, right. Exactly. Ross Perot starting his own galactic expedition. Okay, I know your choice. Texas millionaire.

Oh, okay. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, going and rescuing the hostages trying to do a donation. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, and actually 16. I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. No, okay, 78. So that would be about a year after I was born, a little less.

And always with the reminders. Yes, and I live in a world that has always had Star Wars. Yes. Yes. So, oh, they're capitalizing on Star Wars. Yes. Oh, very. When was the holiday special? Oh, that's a really good, I didn't think about that one.

Oh, wow. I think the holiday special would have been. Would have been the next year, right? It would have been, I think the next year, it might very well have been, might very well have been. So yeah, it was, it was transparently at the time, an attempt to cash in on the SF craze that surround the Star Wars. It was okay. At the same time, this is also when Battle Beyond the Stars got made.

That's the one where they all join, like, like all the people from daytime TV shows join the circus and then they do things like that. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Okay. No, no, no, it's that's the one that's different that's circus the stars battle the network stars. Okay. Um, no, uh, battle beyond the stars was a Korman flick actually James Cameron got called in as a brand newbie turns out just learned this the other day Battle be on the stars was the first movie Cameron did special effects on oh wow So yeah Harvey Corman directed that yes, okay, no Roger Corman you The guy who wrote the road Tririon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Roger Korman McCarthy fucking Ravenclaw.

Fucking cleverness. All right. So anyway, but just so you know Star Wars, how all the day special was 1978. Okay, so all right. Yeah. So so it's still in the middle of right? The pop culture juggernaut that nobody had expected Star Wars to become. Right. Space was capturing the imagination. Yeah. And so Star Wars hit the Space's capturing the popular imagination combined that with, and by the way, we're going to use the Cambillion Monometh, and that just turned into like Zitgeist Crack. Okay. And so everybody wanted to find something to capitalize on that angle. Right. ABC went with Battlestar Galactica. Wow.

And it's worth. I'm just more amazed that it's ABC driving this forward. Like this is before they really get bought out by Disney and do this Sunday afternoon or Sunday evening movie. It's ABC. Yeah. Trying to work their way in there because CBS is running this shit at this time. Oh, yeah, no, it's first network TV. Yeah. Yeah. Like NBC is three years into SNL,

but it's really, but it's not a niche thing. Yeah. But like CBS, I think had Dallas. Yeah. CBS had a mash. Yeah. And well, those are two really heavy hitters. Well, they're the juggernaut. But they also had on the family of and mash, and well those are two really heavy hitters. Well they're the juggernauts. But they also had on the family of FireCol. Yeah, yeah. So CBS controlled all the juggernauts of the day in terms of broadcast TV,

which was the only kind of TV there was at this point. Right. And so ABC was trying to fight against the 900 pound gorilla by capitalizing on the space angle. This is what they did. Isaac Asimov wrote a review of Battlestar Galactica and the best quote out of it was he said Star Wars was fun and I enjoyed it but Battlestar Galactica was Star Wars all over again and I couldn't enjoy it without Amnesia. Wow. Yeah.

20th century Fox actually sued Universal over plagiarism. Universal was producing BSG. 20th century Fox sued him claiming 34 points stolen by BSG from Star Wars. Universal counter sued, saying Star Wars stole points from silent running and buck Rogers, you know, which it did. Yeah, no, no, that's no mosh. Yeah, nice. In 83, the case was resolved out of court. Yeah, okay. Lucas made his money enough to be like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

By the way, just 24 episodes, just for funzies. Yeah, other ABC TV shows that are enough to be like yeah whatever yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Well, I know that happy days was on ABC. Yeah, but it had been there for a while. Yeah, welcome back hotter Oh, yeah, that had been around for a little bit wonder woman Had been around for a little bit. This is its last year. Yeah, when when okay when does Barney Miller show? Barney Miller is there in I think they started 75 okay And Your eye was born. Yes. Wow. That is an old TV show.

Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. Yeah. So, that's, yeah. Thank you for that context. Come on. Because yeah, that kind of gives you an idea of what the landscape looked like.

Yeah. Now, for the loan listener of our podcast, who doesn't know the plot of the original battle start to last. Taxi, too. I'll start it. Yeah. Now, for the lone listener of our podcast, who doesn't know the plot of the original battle start to last. Taxi, too. I'll start it. In 78. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Holy crap. Yeah, I'm deep diving on that. Yeah, you, okay. Yeah. So, but for the one of you who's listening to this podcast, who doesn't know what the original BSG was about. Yes. The 12 colonies, or tribes tribes of humanity have been waging a millennium long war against the

robotic sylons. Now, the background of the sylons was kind of nebulous, but we find out that they had been they are being robots. They were built by a reptaloid race that they had risen up against and destroyed. Oh wow. And so the Sylon's and Humanity were involved in this Millennium Long War and at the very, very beginning of the pilot film, there is a truce between humanity and the silence. The silence betray the terms of the ceasefire,

launching a surprise attack against the colonies. All 12 of them all at the same time. 220 ships escape, led and defended by the lone remaining capital ship, the Galactica, the titular ship of the show. The the the paddle arc. Yes. Yes. Desperate to escape the fleet flees off into the void searching for the lost 13th colony, a distant planet known as earth. I can't do lorngreen just to save my life nobody can but yeah. So so wait the sylons were built by a different race, betrayed them, took over, and then they ward with us.

I just have the feeling that that's significant given what I know of the new series. Yes, okay. Well, it's definitely a very important point of difference when we get to talking about the new series. Now, so 12 colonies. Uh-huh. 12 tribes.

Zodiac signs. It's tribes of Israel. It's tribes of the Etruscans. Oh, right. It's a very minute, frankly, it's a Mediterranean thing because the Egyptians counted in base 12. Oh, really? Yeah, so it was...

I hadn't known that was the root of it. Yeah Yeah so it was your digits on your fingers. These Egyptians are the Babylonians. I always flip flop them. Okay, but it's you count by fingers never thumbs and you count the digits. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve. Twelve, we have twelve hours in our clock. Wow. Yeah. So the number 12, very, very important. Yeah. Mediterranean culture, which of course works as way into Yeah, and it's symbolic and it has symbolic overtones of all kinds. So the reason the reason I specifically talk about 12 tribes is because Glenn Larson, the series creator, he was writing on the far side. Yeah, nice. Yeah, different Larson. on the far side. Yeah, nice.

Yeah. Yeah. Different Larson. But he stayed it in the process of writing the pilot and in the process, doing all that. He explicitly included points from Mormon theology in the plot of the show, which Mormon theology makes a very big deal of the 12 tribes of Israel, because the ancestors of the Native Americans are believed in Mormon theology to have been one of those lost tribes of Israel

and it gets into all kind of stuff with that. There is in Mormonism, there is a mystical planet known as Colobb. In Battlestar Galactica, the lords of cobalt. Oh, it just looked like that. Yeah, we're the mystical kind of kind of mystical, spiritual council. Well, they were and count the plan, they found the planet cobalt and it was like the root source of the colonies themselves. It's from where the 12 sprang.

Sprang. Okay, I get you. And so there were alien races encountered who are angelic. Okay. You know, I mean like like really clearly leaning real hard on angelic imagery and angelic kind of themes with them. Now is that just because those are the special effects that they had? No, it was his thing. He very pointedly had the battle start because you used a phrase that I'm going to come back to,

the Battle Arc. Yes. He very clearly was creating a parallel with the Noah's Ark story. He had originally pitched a show that was a science fiction Noah's Ark first that didn't go anywhere. Okay. And then Star Wars happened and he took his original idea and Wacked a few things around on it and changed a few things and that became Battlestar Galactica Was he a Mormon? Yes Because in 78 the Mormon church undergoes a major change in its doctrine. Yes

And I don't want to step on that if you're going to get to that. Oh, no, go ahead, bring it up. Yeah, I think that's going to be a good idea. They essentially, I don't want to say rewrite, because I don't know that that's correct. They meant? I can. Well, OK.

Go ahead and say what you're saying. They're doctrine to allow to take away the idea that black people are stained by sin and to allow them to be, I believe, bishops. Well, a bishop is any adult male member of the church. Oh, okay. I know that they could now walk diagonally and that's the part that's really critical. Yeah, and you needed a black one and a white one because- Yeah, for a strategic standpoint, you need that.

Yeah. No, the theological point is not that there was any, it's not treated in Mormon theology as an emendation or what it is, is the further fulfillment of prophetic notification. Okay, now we're ready for this part. Essentially, yeah. It's Joseph Smith was the prophet. Right. And he stated that all of the prophets before him were prophets, he is another prophet come to bring completion to the true faith. Yeah. He never said he was the last prophet.

Okay. And so within Mormonism, the head of the Mormon church is recognized as being the latest incarnation of, he is a prophet. And the things that head of the Mormon church states are when he speaks in that way, he is prophetic. He says, I have received word that this thing. That's similar. Well I don't know how parallel it is but it sounds parallel to the Sikh

gurus like the first ten Sikh gurus. Yeah yeah there is there are some similarities definitely. As opposed to you know in Islam it's no no. No it's done. Muhammad was the last one ain't gonna be another one. Right. Yeah, um, you know as opposed to you know in Islam. It's no no It's done. Well, it was the last one ain't gonna be another one. Right. That's it anybody claiming to be one is an apostate And right that's that is not how Mormonism Same with Christianity, right? Like I'm I'm the alpha and the Omega. I'm done. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'll be back Yeah, I get the shift fix. Yeah,, figure all this out. You know, look busy. Right.

But, and within Christianity, there's the idea of the development of sacred tradition over time. Sure. And there is within Catholicism, there's the idea that the Pope speaks ex-Cathodra, meaning you know the Latin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But when he speaks, yeah, but but when when he speaks yeah when when he Speaks in that mode, right he is speaking on behalf of the church, right? And thus he is inspired by the Holy Spirit, right, which is not the same thing as prophecy and modern popes don't ever Don't ever say that they're speaking ex-Cathodre Okay, they do say look based on study of doctrine based on looking this this is okay These things are doing this way. Yeah, Francis has done that with a number of encyclicals about environmentalism

And about you know with his statements about you know who might a judge right gay people You know, we should be welcoming them into the church. We should be making our spaces welcoming. He has never said it's not a sin, but he has said we should be welcome him. Right. He said other stuff too, but I'm not going to leave that. Yeah. Well, yeah. But that's that's the talking about space warmen. Yeah, it's talking about space warms. So a Soviet critic. Well, okay, first, to complete talking about the plot of the original show, the 220 ships are supposed to be the last rag tag survivors of humanity, but this always bugged me. Multiple times during the show, they wind up coming to a planet finding a whole bunch of people

there. And it's like, okay, you never established are these aliens? Just look like people? Or like are the 12 tribes not actually to be all end all of the survival of humanity, in which case the stakes are not nearly as high as you've made it out to be. So that's very I need though. I need to bouncing all of place. He's he's carrying all of Troy with him him. Starts off with 20 ships, by the way. Yeah. Two shy.

Yeah. Or no, you said 220. 220. Yeah, only 200 shy. Yeah. And he starts off with 20 ships. And he lands on an island and he runs into Hellenius who's a prince from Troy.

He's like, oh shit, cool. We'll stay here for a while. Then a plague happens and he stabs a tree It gets weird like he keeps running and then later on it's like yeah, and Antonore he went up north That's why there's the vei and like there's there's he's constantly running into other Trojans Who apparently got out before he did? Or were like there were there were colonies established before the war trading something. Yeah, it wasn't those things, but yeah, yeah, there were some

somehow. So same same kind of thing. Yes. You know, inspired by the same kind of sources. So, you know, maybe unintentionally evoking some mediterranean tradition and have advanced people of your thing when you're the last people of your thing. So there's this weird thing going on there, which I never got. I don't know if there was ever really an in-universe explanation for it. A Soviet critic argued, this is in Provdo, a Soviet critic, argued that the plot of the first episode was clear evidence of anti-Soviet hysteria in the face of the ongoing salt talks. Wow. Is there clear evidence of that?

No. I mean, could you say that the silence are the Soviets? I think, well, I can get into that a little bit now and a little bit more detail later on when I'm comparing it to the newer show. I think the perception that we saw their use of technology and Yeah, and so So so technophobic. I mean there was that fear of the missile gap There was the whole reason that we came to the table for salt was because we thought we were losing. Yeah, you know So there is a technological aspect to it. I think I think there

There is an argument to me made that was part of our subconscious zitgeist. Sure. Not to the extent that the prob to critic was trying to say. Well, and you know, everybody always tells on themselves that the critic. So, yeah, so, the problem is like, these people are propagandizing against America. Okay. Cause you would if you could.

Cause you would if you could. Yeah, now I get that. Yeah, so there's there's an Undercurrent in the original show. There's an undercurrent of this idea of post apocalypse Okay, because the colonies have all been pretty defining Okay, but it doesn't feel what I'm trying to say is it doesn't feel post-apocalyptic It feels like a Bible-flavored buck Rogers episode You know the main characters are colonial warriors

who do most of their fighting from the cockpit of a Viper Starfighter. My dad was a big fan. Okay, obviously. You know, and these are very, as I recall, they're very angular with a bubble on top. Right, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

The F-16, officially nicknamed the Fighting Falcon. That was the General Dynamics gave it nicknamed the fighting Falcon. That is the general dynamics gave it the name fighting Falcon. Right. Was nicknamed the Viper by Air Force pilots because the angles, the triangular shape, the single engine, the back, the single engine. Although actually the colonial starfighter had three engines in a triangle. Oh, but but it it from from yeah, so it does somewhat that looks almost a Forish to like the hose, but yeah, I get you if you if you yeah, oh yeah, if you squint and look at nev16 same colors See a viper. Yeah, yeah And it entered service in August of 1978.

Oh, kid. Like literally right before the show came on the air. Now, effects quality for the show was remarkably high for the day. Yes. It had really good special effects for something made in 1978, which meant it was really expensive, which is part of the reason it only got one season. The less said about the revival in 1980, the better. I think there's something tickle on

my brain about that. Yeah, yeah. Was it a mini series? It's well, it was supposed to be a series, but it didn't last because the less said about it, the better. It was panned. They made it, they made it to Earth. Oh, and then they had to come up with a way to keep it a Side-by-show space. Right. And so you found out in the show that like everybody from the colonies was like Jor-L Like they were they were super strong. They weren't quite bulletproof, but they were stronger than nor they were like I'm gonna get a little bit I'm gonna say that there's a little bit of the last fortunate side of Mormon theology going on in that these are space people from these mystical planets who show up and they are stronger and wiser and better of bound humanity.

And so yeah, it was, the writers couldn't figure out what to do. And so it floundered and just kind of fell apart. So it was the aftermath version of Battlestar. It pretty much, yeah. And it sucked. Did the original season end logically or did they figure they were gonna get picked up and then so they never wrote a good ending?

They wrote an ending that was sufficient until the day. There was a chance. There was a chance they might get picked up but they were pretty sure, well, we're gonna give some kind of an ending just. Okay. So fast forward. It was a chance they might get picked up, but they were pretty sure well, you know, we're gonna we're gonna give some kind of an ending just okay so

Fast forward Okay, what do we got? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah the motorbikes. Yeah, I was afraid they flew Oh, wait, wait, what was that? What was that movie? It was bad? What was that movie? Megaport yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, same time period. Yeah. No garbage. Absolute stinking burning garbage. So the new series, uh-huh, Battlestar reimagined. I'm referring to it as. Okay. Erad is a mini series in 2003

Originally, mm-hmm, and then it got picked up on sci-fi as a series in 2004, right? Which really kind of put sci-fi channel on the map There were there for a bit anyway, but it it they became destination TV Yeah, they did they did and it had 13 episodes in the first season continued for total four seasons 76 episodes in all Now the same had same basic premise, there's 12 colonies wiped out in a surprise attack. This time, the surprise attack is explicitly nuclear. Yes, we watch in the pilot as as the mushroom clouds, plume all over the surface of the planet

below. And we see of Caprica, of Caprica, specifically, we see of Caprica. Of Caprica, specifically. And we see the silon standing there as the blast wave hits. Right. You know, that really, that really, that actually is stunning. Yeah, but iconic moment, seeing that happening. And prior to her doing that, the opening scene,

I believe is for like 44 years or however long, the, as you guys however long the Americans. Yeah, the humans send a representative to meet with the silence and they never show up and then she shows up and kisses the shit out of him. Yeah, which he just kind of accepts because she's hot as hell. Yeah, and he just kind of accepts even though it's really weird for that to be a thing. That'd be a thing. And then I, does she kill him? No, a pair of warriors walk in and just shoot him full of holes. That's what it is. And the warriors are the...

Warriors, the warriors are full on toasters. Right. ...sliced up. Yeah. All of the more angular lines have been, have been more organized and soaked out. Right. And I mean, they look vicious. Yes. Like the original, the original style on silent warriors looked big hulking intimidating They look like children's toys though. Well because that was what you wanted to you know market

Well also they looks they looked like an update of lost in spaces robot. Well, yeah with the with the two thing Yeah, which is also you know I joked before but yeah Squeaky what was his name? Twiggy twiggyoked before, but, uh, squeaky? What was his name? Twiggy. Twiggy. Twiggy. Yeah. Twiggy. Yeah. Twiggy. Yeah. Twiggy. He had that tubing too. Yeah. Well, one of the things is if you're trying to, if you're trying to build a robot that you're actually going to have,

somebody wearing is a costume. Yeah, you want a articulation way to get, that's an easy way to get articulation without actually having to study medieval armoring, you know, to figure out how many, or show flesh or. Or show skin. Yeah. And so the original, the original silons gave off this menacing aura that was based on them being big hulking

and like we're gonna take a football player as our model and turn that into a soldier robot. Right. And they had the helmet that had the really obvious Romanesque crest on the top. They were referred to as centurions. I mean, the overtones were very overt. Yes. So, the new ones look...

They're sleek. Yeah. Like, the original ones look intimidating. The new ones look like satanic, like really genuinely like evil. And that brings me around to talking about the important differences in tone. Okay. Between the two series.

The original series was felt like a Western in space. I mean, Lauren Green. Yeah, I mean, like Bonanza, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, they had, they, Benanza, right? Benanza, yeah. Yeah. You know, they had, they had frontier planets with literal saloons. Oh, okay.

Like, like, all the time you'd see Starbucks, what was Starbucks spending all this time doing, playing poker in a bar? Okay. You're supposed to be the last ranked tanker of the right person of humanity. How the fuck did you find a bar? Like, in a role-playing game scenario, as the game master, find a bar like in a role playing game scenario?

Right as the game master be like okay Tell me tell me what you're doing as the game starts and and Starbucks player goes I'm in a bar playing poker Right you're one of the red tags survivors of humanity point to the character sheet. I can always find a fucking bar Like that was that was I spent five points on his trait I'm using it like you know The fleet was treated like a wagon train Like the whole the whole feeling of it all was we got to keep everybody together got a circle everything You know keep fight off the Indians, you know

When the fleet ran into silence in the original series it was because the silence were somehow in their path. So they happened upon them every time? Yeah, they'd happen upon them. Okay. But it was like running into Native Americans on the Oregon Trail. Okay. It was like we're traveling through this area of space

and our reconnaissance people have found that, you know, there are, what did the silence call their battles, the big battle stations that they had the gigantic like twin diamond on top of each other. Big hulking. What anyway, you know, we found, we've, we found a couple of silent battle cruisers, what do I want to call them in this, in this set, we got to figure out how we're going to get around them. You know, and, and it was, it was like, the silence were a threat, but it didn't feel like they were being actively hunted. Okay. And the struggles of the survivors felt like domestic issues being handled by Adama

as the patriarch of the family. It was, again, it was bananj. Right, right. You know, and it was it was a Dama as Noah Okay, in charge of the which literally he actually was Okay, you know, and that's that's the the character of a Dama was originally Noah and the first idea that Larson had come up with So, yeah, it's novert thing and nobody Ever questioned him. Okay We never saw any other authority figure. He was it. Yeah. Apollo

was and always beautiful. I'm always gonna do what my father tells me to do. I'm gonna be the pillar of righteousness. I'm gonna be the good son all the time. The only one of the warriors ever gave anybody lip was Starbucks because that was his role narratively just to be that guy. Do you want to say it or do you want me to? Go. He was the Apollonian ideal. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. His name names him Apollo. So yeah, what happens? That's kind of yeah, you don't get more you know, you don't get more Apollo than actual Apollo. Yeah, and in that sense, you know, Starbuck was was a bit more of the Hermes. We're gonna go with the Greeks. Okay. He was he was the he was a hot shot pilot.

He was also a hot head, and a wise cracker and all that stuff. He always wound up on, you know, he was a loyal colonial warrior, but he, or he might, actually, he was Dionysian. He was, in a literal sense, he was more interested in wine, women, and song, you know, given the opportunity, I'm gonna be a bar playing poker with, you know, a scatally clad 70 70s idea 70s idea of a sci-fi gown

Right woman, you know on my arm rather than you know off actually fighting, but when it has to happen I'm gonna be good at it. You know and so it it was a wagon train in space. It was what Roddenberry Had talked about Star Trek. Right. Which by the way is in production at this point as a movie. Yes. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, the original series was entertaining.

And the original series had had its moments of genuine drama. There were a few episodes that were really well written, but a lot of it, well, and it had an audience, it had people who were fans of it, but it didn't hold together. Like its own internal logic never quite completely made sense and this idea that, you know, we're on the run. Really on the idea was more, we're in this endurance test to make, are we gonna make it to earth? Okay. It was kind of the feeling. We are following Moses to the promised land. We're gonna have to wander for 40 years before we get there, you know, I mean intensely biblical. Okay. The new series, uh-huh, felt like a real war. Yeah.

Felt like a real siege. Silons were actively in pursuit hunting for the fleet. Their goal was, we got a wipe humanity out. Completely. And as the series went on, we figured out why they were motivated by that. Right. But from the get go, it was, no, no, we are going to kill every last organic one of you bitches. Uh, actual like space genocide. Yeah, it was, it was intentional space genocide. Yeah.

From the get go, the first episode of the series, not the mini series, but the first episode of the series not the mini series but the first episode of the series was literally a running battle yeah and they had to jump every 33 minutes yeah that's right because at minute 34 the raiders found them and made that amazing you know flash in noise yeah yeah streaking through, and people started dying. Yes. I mean, because they came in and just wrecked house.

They didn't come in and form up, they didn't come in and they came in guns of blazing. Yeah, they came in immediately shooting. At the start of every episode, they showed the total number of surviving humans. And it was updated every time. and it was updated every time. Yep and For the first several episodes the number kept going down. Yep, and it was a huge deal

Like the emotional payoff when when the intro finished on on that on that first episode We looked at the counter and the number was higher Like yeah, you if you were invested in the series, that was a moment where you were like, yes! We got one. We got one, you know. Yeah. The stakes were always intense.

They were always high stakes. The sense of pending annihilation was ever present. Okay, I mean, it was a stressful show to watch. Like, you know, it was addictive, but like, you know. Yeah, it really was. It was always, it was a stressful show to watch. Like, you know, it was addictive, but like, you know, it was always, it was always, there was always a threat. The issues in the fleet were portrayed as existential threats. No less serious than the silence. When people in the fleet were having a conflict,

it was like, no, no, no, we need to squash this right now. People are going to die like tomorrow. Because you're busy arguing over whatever petty, dick waving problem you're having right now. And the very things that it required to stay alive were so important too, and hanging by a thread. Like I remember a ship lost, you know, its connection to the reserve water tank or something like that.

And a bunch of water was lost. And they're like, we have to ration everybody now. Yeah. Like everybody's on ration. Yeah. Like that was a big deal. Oh yeah. And everybody was constantly exhausted.

Yep. Everybody was herod was constantly exhausted. Yep. Everybody was harrowed and worn out. Yes. And traumatized. And heavily traumatized. Yes. And interpersonal drama between our main characters was was like a thing Like, there was not any conflict between, like, in the original series, Apollo would kind of chide Starbucks for being an irresponsible, you know, Nudnik. But it was never, like, they were never like a long time. Yeah, he's right.

Right. And in the new series, at the beginning of the series, Apollo and Starbucks, like, aren't friends. Well, in Starbucks, because literally in the brig, because she decked Adama's right-hand man. Yeah, tie. Yeah, tie.

Because she punched tie. Right. And by the way, Saul tie forever. Really? Oh, yeah. No kidding. No, dude lost a fucking eye in interrogation and never broke. Okay.

Like, like, yeah, no. I just think it was like what a drunk he is and when he meets his wife, what Dipsha he becomes. Well, yeah. Yes. He's a deeply flawed and interesting character. He's a deeply flawed and an amazingly interesting character. And for me, the defining moment that leads me to say, Salty fuck yeah, is later on in the series,

spoiler alert, when we find out, he's one of, when he finds out, he's one of the final five, they all stare at each other for a second, they hear the alarm clock sounds go off. They're like, what do we do? He says, I'm a colonial officer. Oh, okay, yeah. And like, he knows, even in that moment of literal existential like, I don't know who the

hell I am. I'm going to do this. He figures out who he is. He makes a choice. And it's Lam. This is what I value. This is who, this is the commitment I've made. Right.

You know, before he you know Get's the info dump and remembers that somehow he's been immortal for the last several thousand years Right, right, you know, I mean before all the weird mystical shit comes in and we're gonna get into that Before he remembers all that his first instinct is no no no, I took an oath right. That's a good point I guess my problem for him is that he's you know Adama Adama is right there over shadowing him the whole time and I love me some Adama. Oh, I really do Yeah, he's a grumpy old fuck who gets to the wrong and he is but he's got like such a strong moral compass He is he is he is one of the two characters in the show who is a pillar

of integrity. Yes. And what's remarkable about the new show is you have a character named Apollo who is not the Apollonian ideal. True. The Apollonian Do you want me to guess? Yeah. Oh, um, what was his name? Chief. No. Oh, he low. Oh, shit, you're right. And Hannah Dama disagree a lot. Yes.

And he's always the one on the side of, you know, he's the Dama. He's the Dama. Yeah, he's the Dama. He totally is. And he's compassionate. McCoy. Yeah, he's the dog McCoy. He totally is. And when he and Adama disagree, Adama is doing something that's pragmatic and necessary.

That's a good point. And Hilo is always the one arguing on the side of principle. Hilo is the paladin. Hilo is the, you're making, you know, it's a necessary compromise, but you're still making compromise. Is it not happy about it? And this changes who we are. And this changes who we are. Now I gotta say, I went to chief and here's why, chief was the one who I thought

was trying to hold on to his humanity the hardest and the most. And that struggle that he had and it included the bad and the good. He also unionized and you know what a sucker. Well yeah, yeah, but he kind of labor organization. Yeah, I'm like, but at the same time he really did. He was, I don't know, like you have all this command crew, you know, so like you always have a bridge crew on a sci-fi thing, you know the decision makers He was the one for whom the decisions were made and he was the one who had to Dirty his hands carrying out their will. Yeah so yeah, you know he He had I want to say almost he had more of a stake in the existence

Even though he turned out to be a silent. Yeah I get what you're saying. Yeah, but you're right. He low is a a. Yeah. Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. Yeah, but you're right. Healow is a paragon. Yeah. He's an exemplar. Yes. So you're right.

Now here's the thing. There was not a single character on the show in the newer series that was not compelling. That's very true. Like one of the things that truly made it like you said destination TV was even when you were looking at ball tar just like you. Oh guys. Yeah. What are you? Like could you be any more of a simmering fucking coward? Like you know know, no matter, you know, you'd be throwing shit at the screen, but he was still so compelling to watch. Yep. Because you could totally understand why he was failing that moral crisis. Mm-hmm. And God, but he failed all of the fun. Well, and he was such an

idiot. Like, every one. Yeah. Oh, Lord, I just had an idea of who the other character is that there was another character I thought of from genre that like that's him and I got it and I lost it. But you know, it was that character who it's like, if he's faced with a temptation, like it's Chekhov's temptation. Right. You know, if you put a temptation in front of Baltar,

he's gonna fall too. He's going for it. It's inevitable. With another just like with Hilo, you put a temptation in front of Hilo, he's not going to. That's true. But when you get the, what makes them compelling

is how they respond in those cases. With everybody else in between, it was always a question. That's true. I especially like that you had a character, I don't know if you recall, he was only there for a few episodes, getting crashed down, who was a very,

like seemed like a decent guy, seemed like a decent officer and stuff like that. And then when they had a mission and it went sideways, he reverted purely to like, you know, the West Point doctrine of, okay, paragraph one, we have to do this, paragraph two. And how he was like, he could only stick to the doctrine

of officer training. Yeah. And he essentially was about to shoot Kali for disobedience. Yeah. And it was, he was so clearly wrong and couldn't get around that. Like, you still felt for him. Yeah. And he was so clearly wrong and couldn't get around that. Like, you still felt for him. Yeah.

All that was true. Because he was in an impossible situation, and you could totally see how it was that somebody thoroughly incompetent could end up there. The end there, yeah. Yeah. And so we see civilian authority, like the president is a major leading character. There was no civilian president in the original series.

And she's also 46th in line for power. She was the secretary of education on essentially a tour of the Campanito. You know, like, that becomes the thing. And she's civilian authority. And Madonna immediately says, no, no, she's the president. Right. And anybody who has an issue with that needs to take it up with me

because I'm subservient to the civilian power. And that was a huge deal. Yes. A Dama's, like one of a Dama's defining, I don't want to say conflicts, but one of his defining issues in the series was always about the role of the military versus the role of civilian authority.

There was never anything like that in the original series. That's true. Never came up. Adam was never questioned. Lauren Green, you don't question Lauren Green. Right. You know, like you just don't do it. And, you know, Edward James almost, you questioned him.

Yeah. Well, he allowed you to. He allowed you to. And again, he was a gruff prick. But like, you, you, there was a space for civilian government to do what it does. And he was intellectually honest about it. Yes. I don't like the fact that you're asking me that question. It pisses me off.

You're asking, it's an important and fucking question, but it has to be asked. Right. You know, yeah. And, and, you know, yeah, no, Adama. And he also really came to loggerheads with President quite often. Yeah. No matter President, you know, even as their friendship grew and blossomed, he would...

And it turned into more than just a friendship. It did, and at the same time, along those, the steps along toward that, were still very much huge conflict where I'm like, oh shit, there goes their friendship. Yeah. I remember thinking that several times. Oh yeah.

But yeah, okay, so there's, so you've got a civilian leadership which never was meant to be. In fact, she was retiring that day. Remember? That I don't remember, but yeah. She's going to him to resign of some sort because she also had been diagnosed. Oh, right.

Right. And he is now responsible for keeping her in charge so that everyone's morale goes okay So that everybody doesn't kill themselves off. Yeah Yeah, they're there were that they just fraught with so yeah, so so the reimagining in general, mm-hmm was darker Mm-hmm. More morally ambiguous and directly confronted the political events of the day It's time for a break. Yes, it is.

Yes, it is. Hey, Geek Nation, it's Damien. And Ed, and we're here to pitch a book at you. It's from a good friend of mine and a good friend of the show, Bishop O'Connell. The books are the American Fairytale trilogy. The stolen, the books are the American Fairytale trilogy, the stolen, the forgotten, the return. If you're a fan of urban fantasy, you're going to love these.

If you're a fan of Celtic folklore, you're going to love these. Even more, they're very well researched in terms of the stories and everything they tie into. And he's a very good guy. And like I said, a good friend of the show. So go out, pick him up, read him, and now back to us being smart Alex. So when we left off, talking about the fact that the reimagining was, was a lot darker. Yes. You know, I mean, just in general, it was a lot darker and it directly

spoke to what was going on in the world at the time. Right now big the big events that were in the headlines showed up. Yeah. In the show, we're going to get into detail about that. But you know, uh, so just just to refresh me. Yeah. So just to refresh me, the original one with Lorne Green was 79. Yes, hold on, let me make sure. Not like that wasn't a dark time. Yeah, 78. Okay, 78. September 17, 78.

Okay, so yeah, we're talking the Camp David Accords, which ultimately are somewhat optimistic because you actually have peace. Well, yeah, and remember the profta, the critic in profta, as we mentioned, an hour ago, said that this is Western decadent panic about the salt agreements. This is all anti-Soviet propaganda,

which I don't know why my Russian accent sounds so much like an Austrian who's been a Moscow but you get what I'm saying and and so If there was any commentary in the original series, it was covert was it and it wasn't and and and really the the original series was an attempt to make money off of the sci-fi craze in the wake of Star Wars. And it was treated as written as and it just was escapist fiction. It was a wagon train, it was literally a wagon train in space.

You know, everybody talks about Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry, having written a wagon train in space. Yeah. That was very good. Actually, really was. There was a trail of ships. Yes. You know, and occasionally they'd be attacked by silence. Engines. Engines. Yeah. And again, because there was this overt, well, not quite totally overt, but there was a very clear Mormon allegory to it. And of course, Mormonism is tied intrinsically to the expansion west or any United States. Well, and I would point out also, 78.79,

you still, I mean, there's only three networks really. Yeah. You, I mean, cable is just getting introduced in some areas. Yeah. But it's not going to be coming. It brings it up to, yeah, and $78.79, it would have been probably about $12.13. But also more importantly, like you said, they're pulling off of the importance of Star Wars,

but also Star Trek had just gotten canceled only less than a decade earlier. So there's some residual. Right. And also when was finance a canceled? When was Little House on the Prairie? When were the Walton's? Those were all in the 70's. Oh yeah.

So having a Western in the late 70's still made tons of sense. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Although by that time, you know, the heyday of Western's on TV was the 50's and 60's. You know. It I swear to God folks, I didn't mean to do that. But, you know, the golden age of Westerns

was in the 50s and 60s. Right. And by the 70s, everybody was talking about, oh man, you know, the Western is dying. Sure. Which to us nowadays is really funny because you had little house on the prairie, you had bananza that the prairie you had

a bananza that ran for forever. Petty Guns. Petty Co. Junction. Gunsmoke ran forever. Wild Wild West was like the opposite end of the spectrum of we're gonna have a sci-fi western. Right, we're gonna have a western sci-fi. We're gonna have a western science fiction story. Ooh, you know. Yeah. Um, and, and you know, I think the TV series, that TV series is a total side, I think, is underrated. The, the level of, we're just really having a lot of fun with this. Uh-huh. That was, the way it was delivered with the kind of wink it was delivered with while at

the same time being played totally, no, no, we're playing this totally straight. This is a spy show. This is a spy show in the old West. Wink, you know, right, right. And it was, it had a lot of cleverness. Okay. That everybody gets kind of kind of locked up in how goofy it was. was. And they don't want to give it credit for being really smart. Okay. You know, so just complete segue there. But also though, I was going to point out that in addition to all of those things being on TV

in the 70s, you also had spy TV shows. Oh yeah. So the idea of intrigue was not new. Well, yeah, man from Uncle was in the 60s Right. I'm trying to think what what spy shows were on the 70s, but in the in the 70s Impossible was in the 60s right? Mission possible was in the 60s Secret agent man, right Danger man was Jesus was the British version of that of that, and then as a response to that was the prisoner, which was a deconstruction of all of the tropes that came out of spy TV, spy the genre, which at some point I got to figure out a hook for the prisoner because that would be, well, it was kind of spy superheroes.

It was, it was spies as three colored comic books. Super spies. Super spies, yeah, it was, and so I'd say it qualifies. I'd give you credit for that because the themes and the tone of it were very much, we're gonna turn James Bond into overtly, don't know, they're superheroes. And it was kind of the saint, which was like a spy show, even though the saint was a master thief.

Mm-hmm. But it again, so in tone entry. Yeah. Well, and that's kind of my point is that what you have is a bedrock to the old one is you've got spy entry. You've got a lot of genres going on. Going into it. Going into it. In the 2000s, genres have kind of been broken. You had sitcoms, they had their heyday in the late 90s, early 2000s. Yeah. You have, but it's a lot of sitcoms.

As far as dramas go, you have procedural dramas. Remember comedy was a huge big deal in the 80s. Yeah, on TV. That was the biggest genre for a long time. Sure. I think, and I'm totally, this is completely out of my rective at this point, but my hot take on it is, I think because as we've talked about before, as a society, we had gotten to this place where we were numb to the horror of the Doomsday clock, hovering at two minutes to midnight. And so on a certain level, it was like,

dude, I just need somebody to make me laugh for half an hour. Yeah, but, but, you know, the thing that, that laugh for half an hour turned into laugh for two hours. Yeah. TGIF in the 80s, and most of those were family sitcoms. Yes. And very often they were based around the specter of divorce, which is an interesting

anxiety to the audience because you had no fault. Divorces in the 70s, finally. Yeah, well, you had no fault divorcing the 70s and that was when the divorce rate skyrocketed originally to the point where our women could finally get out. Women could finally get out and you and I and you, George, to three of us, are all part of that generation where we had a lot of friends, where we were kids who, you know, were coming from a circumstance where their parents were divorced. That was like in every, became oh yeah well you know

my buddy Scott in high school. Yeah you know and oh no I can't do that I'm gonna be in my dad's place. Right it becomes a trope. It became a trope became a thing and so yeah it makes sense that that would be kind of this this. So that's that's the 80s. Yeah. The 90s sitcoms were young professionals, or slightly older professionals, because Frazier, but the 90s were young people having sex. Yeah. And also you start to see queer folk getting in there. Showing up. Yeah. And having central characters. Yeah. Instead of the sassy gay friend down the hall. Yeah, well and grace. Right. The most obvious, but also Ellen. Yeah.

But, and I want to say Brett Butler, but I could be wrong there. Not the baseball player, but the comedian. But I don't think she was gay. But you have a good deal of that kind of thing, but it's really, it's about young people in their 20s experiencing life as the bedrock for again, for what's to come.

Buildings Roman. Say again? It's buildings Roman. It's the comedic genre becomes the coming of age saga. Yes. That's the German word for the genre of the coming of age saga. Yes. That's the German word for the genre of the coming of age. Bill Dundes Roman.

Okay. You're just calling me Roman. Yeah, no. Well, I mean, you know. Well, why not? You would win in Venice. Yeah. So, but my point is that in the early 2000s,

when the second one comes out, it is built on, because it's not like we didn't have a bunch of wars going on in the 80s, or in the 70s, we just came out of Vietnam. Well, yeah, the 70s, I'm going to push back a little. Okay. In the 70s, we just came out of Vietnam. In the 80s, we had the specter of, if any, if any war gets sufficiently hot anywhere, there's a chance we're all going to die. Right right and we did have even though Vietnam got sufficiently hot and

I think but but still you know, well, you know Vietnam doesn't count Quote any number of Republicans when they've when they've had enough to drink. We lost because of the press but anyway We could have a whole conversation about which there were episodes about that in the new BSG. Yeah. And there weren't in the BSG. Yeah, there weren't before, yeah. And, but the, we had the invasion of Grenada, which was Reagan's...

Recasting of Vietnam. Re, well, it was recasting Vietnam. And it was, and it was what Henry the fifth wanted when he invaded France in 1414. It was a short victorious war. Yeah, yeah. You know, it was it was what every executive leader of any country ever like like wet dreams about. Not you know, it's no no. I have I have a reason that I can point to that we're accepted as being legitimate. And I know I'm going to win. Right. And so there's, there's,

there's going to be, if there's any blowback, it's going to be minimal. Right. You know, and, and everybody, and because it's, it's a, it's a conflict. Mm-hmm. Everybody is instinctively. They're all going to love me because we're, because the team, we're team animals, we're, we're, we're two up creatures. Everybody is gonna get behind me. They're all gonna love me and my support numbers will go through the roof. And so we had that.

Yeah. And there were other times, we started, we kind of flirted with how much are we gonna do when the Falklands happen? There's Nicaragua. There's Nicaragua. There's the Sandinistas. There's there's a lot of us. There's a lot of us throwing money and guns at other people who are doing our fighting for us. True. There's a lot of so you could I I will I will accept There were a lot of proxy wars. Okay, but I think it's important to note that during this whole time, during that decade, there were very few times where American soldiers had boots on the

ground and were actually, you know, getting shot at. Okay. And that's important because of what we're going to be talking about in the next episode when we pick up. Well, before we get to the part where we cut off, what I wanted to say is the bedrock for Conestogo wagons in space was the end of the Vietnam War, was family and Western entertainment was a Dallas,

was a new entertainment. It was, I mean, it was not that it was new. It a was a motif, but you know, but it was it was family entertainment It was just awful families The families were the entertainment. Yes, horrible shitty people. Yeah, okay, Aaron But like you have all of that Bobby was god damn it. He was the only good one. He was the only is all a dream but You have should have should have stayed.

But you have all that. You also have just a little bit before that sci-fi and spy movie. So you have this menace that's built in colliding with G is in it nice plus westerns plus sci-fi. Boom. There you go. And in 2000s you have battle circle actor Galactica, pardon me. You have sci-fi. Boom, there you go. In 2000s, you have Bannocergalactica, pardon me. You have sci-fi as kind of the bedrock. Young people sci-fi, which is important because all of your main characters are older folk, trying to rein in the younger folk. Okay. Okay, and reacting to them and there's a generation that divide the absolutely plays out. Yeah, okay, and and I think that's all Stuff we we can oh yeah, you get into but also you also have Building into that

Medical procedures Okay, you have ER. Oh, yeah, well, yeah, I think you have a job of hope, but who really cared? but Er was the one that mattered but you you have ER, and you have, you also, Who says the Toronto Surgeon? Yeah, and it worked. Yeah.

But you have ER, and it was really a big deal. Yeah. And you also have, I'm trying to think of what other dramas you had going on, going into the 2000s. Drama's really kind of taking a licking until the global war on terror. Oh yeah. Because then it's all about the urgency stuff.

It's all about... Techno Thriller. Yeah, 24. Yeah, torture's okay. Torture's okay. But also you had police, you had a glut of police procedures going into that time and around that time. Oh yeah.

The only other interesting point I wanted to make about just like here's what's in the bedrock that led to this This is where it sprung out of the the the swamp from which it came In the late 90s early 2000s you had tough guy competitions and you had an explosion of cable TV channels Oh, yeah, that's that cable TV absolutely. That fast explosion cable TV. Absolutely catered to much more niche stuff. In the late 70s, you had boxing on HBO. And you had cable exploding out to what,

at that time was niche, but there were only 12 of them. Yeah. You have these parallels. It's much bigger niches. Yes. Yeah, they had to be. Yeah, they had to be. Yeah, they had to be. You know.

But you have a parallel there. Yeah. The birthing, battle struggle act to go for both. And that was kind of my point. Okay. And each one takes on the characteristics, playing contrary to what had just come. Okay.

Playing off of. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I can see that. Distinguishing itself. Yeah, distinguishing think we should sell from what was out there. Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED Talk during your podcast. That's fine.

No, I mean, you know. But so next time, you know. Next time, we're going to get into the, specifically, the headlines that we're going on, the events that we're taking place at the time of the reboot. And, you know, get into some of the details of just exactly how that was explicitly reflected in the show. Okay. And also, you know, that the kind of mystical

quasi-religious stuff that was involved in it. Oh, yeah. And how, and I know you'll be able to talk about how that ties into other stuff that was going on in the media landscape at the time. Because I've heard you go on about that a couple of times outside of the podcast, so. But the else will now get to hear about it.

But so yeah, that's us halfway through. Yeah. Battlestar Galactical, boo, I can't say it either right now. Battlestar Galactica, BSG and the Global War on Terror. Cool. And so until next time, do you wanna say do you wanna do a takeaway for now at this point? Or...

I think I kind of blew my water on the, here's the bed rocks. Yeah, I think the takeaway is that BSG is playing against type both times. Okay. And I think it's interesting that that's one way to distinguish yourself as sci-fi, is to play against the current type.

Okay. I find that interesting and I think that if we see another, by the way, Star Trek existed in both times. It did and that actually leads in to kind of my, my kind of hot take takeaway right now, is when you say playing against tight, you know, the most recent, well, okay, no, by that time we'd had deep space tonight. By the time of the reboot.

And Star Trek had already had enterprise too. Yeah, you have, which yet, yeah. Yes, you have. And we've already talked about how 9-11 ruined the hell out of that. I think that was episode three. That's episode three or four, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and and we've already talked about how 911 ruined the hell out of that. I think that was episode That's episode yeah, three three or four. Yeah And and so but you have you have Roddenberry. Sorry. It's one of the only episodes I ever kept to one episode. Yeah

It might be the only one But yeah, so yeah, but Gene Rodgerberry. Yeah, Gene, God bless Gene. So, but his universe had already been taken in the same direction by these forces in the Zed case, and we can kind of tie that in, I think, next time. Oh yeah, but it's interesting to note that Star you know, Star Trek has the reputation being the, you know, happy fluffy sci-fi TV series forever.

And before BSG showed up again, it had already gotten darker and grittier and so on. So anyway. Well, let's get past what we're reading, just so that people can finally turn off the engine in their car. And in their car. And next time we'll talk to y'all about what we're reading. But for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. You can find me at duh Harmony on the Twitter, and you can find us at geek history time

on the Twitter. On the Twitter machine. And you are. I'm Ed Blaylock. You can find me at EH Blaylock on the Twitter's. And until next time, watch out for Silons.