A Geek History of Time - Episode 80 - Batman through the Ages Part II

Episode Date: November 7, 2020

BELLS Blow in her face and she'll follow you anywhere. You are destroying the Constitution of the United States may God have mercy on your souls. Good day. Yes. It's a very sad word. We could be saying that we just elected the right white man to power. That's creepy but that's a different category of creepy. Zizuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and find out what the fuckin' truth that man was trying to get at. Like with most episodes I can bring him back to wrestling. Oh, right. Well, he's got other people who work for him who also do things.

And they can get new take-out, human size, into smaller worlds after all. Fuck you. I still don't give a shit about getting fake property in a fantasy game. This is a geek history of time. We're walking back to northern Italy to the real world. My name is Ed Boehler. I'm a world history and remedial reading teacher here in Northern California. And the father of a two year old boy who has now officially entered the obsessed with dinosaurs phase.

So he knows Tyrannosaurus. He knows Stegosaurus. He can almost say Tracerotops. Nice. And yeah, he just discovered, and through him, I just discovered, the anime series Dinosaur King, which is like Pokemon with dinosaurs. Okay. And I don't know if I hate it,

or if I'm obsessed with it, or both. Because it's not like, I mean, I'm not ever going to be able to watch an anime series without getting all pointy-headed nerdy and like medical about it ever again like like this doing this podcast has ruined me for being able to do that. Now, if there's no, I'm just looking at it going, oh, oh, I see that trope and that's that's I've seen that before in. Sure. And and there is so much in that series to unpack from so many different places within the genre that it's just like

Wow, and while I'm busy staring at it because that my son is just you know dinosaurs like fighting and it's amazing And so my wife is staring about I was like you're both idiots Why what he's to he has an excuse right right yours like oh my God how did I get stuck with this much testosterone in my house so so that's what my life that's what my life looks like right now how about you well I'm Damien Harmony I'm a Latin teacher up here in northern California at a distance I am the father of an eight year old and a 10 year old. 10 year old has started telling jokes.

Eight year old has been telling jokes for a while. We have moved paths in dinosaur space. So, so genetic condition is what you're saying. I think it's more nurture than nature. Okay. Yeah, so they've got me as their exemplar. So, he has been choosing mid trilogy movies to watch for Star Wars lately

Which has been really kind of interesting. I I don't quite know why but he's been enjoying that Um, okay stop when you say mid trilogy. Sure like Empire and trilogy. Sure. Like Empire and Second movie The Prequels or like what do you mean by me? Yeah, that's exactly right. So like, okay, he did, we did Empire. Actually, he did have us watch Sith, revenge of the Sith, but then he had us watch Empire and then he also had us watch the Force Awakens. No, second one. The last Jedi. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, let's watch that. It's just kind of interesting to see where he goes with it. But he also, in so doing, he has really started to notice like when Chubaka is picking up C3PO's body parts, he noticed IG 88 just sitting there by the by the incinerator and still really picking up on those details. It's kind of neat. Yeah. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. And she has been just feverishly creating worlds. Like I'm looking at a stack of papers that I'm going gonna tell her you need to organize these when she comes home tomorrow.

So it's been fun. It's been a lot for him. Very cool. So. Very cool. You also, just for kicks, oh, I will report this to you because this will disappoint you. We watched the first episode of Thundercats,

which is on Hulu. Okay. And both of my kids asked me, they're like, do you like this very much? And I was like, no, kind of don't. What are you guys thinking? Like, you know, no, it's a little slow. And basically we all came to the same conclusion. It's slow and plotting and and it's just it's best left unwatched. Again, I think that you will not think that it aged well. Here's the deal. I know, I know for a fact, I'm going to think if I, if I go back and watch it, and now that you've said this, it's Schmuck bait,

and I'm going to have to go back and watch it. I know, I know it will not have aged well. I know just from my memory, that it was all immensely formulaic. Yes. But here's the thing. I don't know if I'm going to care. Okay. And the reason is how to put it, it's, it's, it's like this could be our world many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, thousands of years in the future. This could be some mythical world of ours, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, thousands of years in the past, you know, any, any kind of setting that starts from that premise is automatically going to get an awful lot of leeway for me. Gotcha. Fair enough. And so like, and I blame Tolkien because it's all middle earth all over again. And yeah, what I would say is we saw that and we're disappointed. What I recommend

for you though, given that your child is what, two and a half? Yes. Oh shit. Yes. Okay. So that might be true. You are welcome. Okay, I don't know if I said thank you. Yeah, I know. I'm gonna, you know what, I'm gonna give you a link right now on these tubes.

You can find it. You know? Yep, yep. You're welcome. So while I'm queuing keep talking about that. So my thesis was Bruce Wayne is what liberal comic book writers in 1939 wished billionaires were. Yes. And I'm going to be talking about that. I'm going to be talking about that.

So my thesis was Bruce Wayne is what liberal comic book writers in 1939 wished billionaires were. Yes. And you know, Batman in 1939 is kind of what I wish more billionaires were, frankly. Yeah. Jeff Bezos has all that fucking money. He could be Batman. What's he doing with it? Like, come on. Like, really? He could be Batman. What's he doing with it? Like come on like really? You know, so All right, and I just got your message here. So I'm gonna ignore that though because I'm convicting excuse not to look at it. Oh God, please. And

So we're we where we left off was kind of talking about talking about the roots of the character talking about you know who who were his bad guys who you know what was what was the milieu he was operating and. And so here's saying is in Marvel. Nice. Yes. Nice. Ever 11 thing. Yeah. Not yet. I'm not thinking of clay faces and show up for for a year or two yet.

You know, when gets me is that all those villains are so fucking old. Like they were right in the beginning, like a lot of them lasted. You don't know. You're right.. I know so so here's the thing Not Ben Grim, but you know the the the object of my statement Why is why is Batman a millionaire? Like a narrative narrative well, okay, but narratively, why does he have to be a billionaire? I think it gets you to the Doc's average competency thing. If he doesn't have access to tons and tons of funds, then you have to explain in a different way how he got to be the way he was.

Very good. Yes. And he's a gadget hero. Need, yeah, need money to keep up and you need, you need so, so through comic book hand, wave, him, well, he's a billionaire. He's, you know, one of these days, I'm going to like somehow like force push you through the internet to force you to look up TV tropes because there's just, there's so much shorthand I use that like I'm totally like I'm just stealing whole cloth from there.

Because it's because it's so easy. It's like you always talk about, you know, I'm gonna paint with broad brush because it saves time. Uh huh. I'm gonna steal this term from TV tropes because it fits so well and it saves me having to come up with something original. It's the same diff.

So, but the thing is, you know, you say, will you know, he's a billionaire playboy. Automatically, that means, well, he has all the money. And I mean, there have been people in the modern era who've gone through and broken down. How rich does Bruce Wayne actually have to be? $6.8 dollars at last count something something like that yeah in order to fully fund from zero to from scratch to full on Batmanism uh three point five million dollars well there you go so yeah so yeah um but but of

course if you're writing a comic book you don't have to crunch those numbers. True. Because you're just telling a story, right? So, all right, well, you know, he's a billionaire and that pays for the utility belt and the gas capsules and the, uh, trying to say the grappling hooks and the gas masks and the batterings, the Bat Gyro, by the way, the first bat aircraft was an auto gyro, which as the son of a civil aviator is like nerdsquee, like all over. Yeah, the Bat Gyro, the Batmobile, all of that should appear in detective comics in the first few issues of Batman's existence. Does Batman ever have a child? Oh, well, okay, because I remember Damian Damian Wayne. Yeah, he was named in a very recent. Yes. Yes. But that's right. The old one of the two. Right. Yeah.

So question for you when when his son is in the crib does he hang a bunch of little versions of his car over his son while he's sleeping Nice, thank you Nice time check 1141 Yeah, all right. Yeah, all right. You've done worse. I've done much worse. You know, you okay That's a good see that one that one All right, you've done worse. I've done much worse. You know, you, you okay? Let's see, that one, that one, I'll give you. Okay, thank you.

I'm not an Iainian man. So, so anyway, you know, he has a joy. Yeah, so, so he has, so he has all this stuff because he can pay for it because he's a billionaire. You know, in high school, a buddy of mine with ambitions to be a genre writer, actually tried to think about, okay, no, seriously, if a working class dude wanted to try to be a vigilante, what would that be?

And he kind of tried to deconstruct it. And he got a couple of chapters into what he was writing. And he was like, I can't keep it going anymore because it just gets too depressing. Uh-huh. Well, that's kind of what Peter Parker was. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. And you can. Yeah. Luckily, he can still fall back on Aunt May. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, and you can yeah luckily he can still fall back on it may Well one he can he can fall back on it may and and remember and remember that Spidey has the fallback of He does in fact actually have

Soup there are some super human abilities I like the point in his in his in his wheelhouse. can you know climb climb up you know you can you can climb stuff he can do you know about the only pieces of tech He relies on canonically or his web shooters. Mm-hmm. And that and the thing is that gets hand-waved Because he's a high school science genius. Yeah, he has a chemistry set at home. Yeah. He makes something. What exotic, what exotic shit does he have in that chemistry set? And he's able to do synthetic spider silk.

Like, like he's not only genius. Yeah, with the tensile strength that it can actually hold Ben Grimm's arms to his sides and then dissolves into nothingness after an hour. Yeah, like wow, that's like holy shit. Here's the deal. This is the one time you could have and you don't say here's the thing. Good point. Yeah. Good point. All right. Good point. Yeah. Good point. So anyway. But like, you know, that's, that's, that's a great example of, so, okay, seriously, if you have developed that, why are you spending

your time chasing muggers? Because we're talking about Peter Parker, who does in fact chase muggers. That's part of his raise on that. Why are you chasing muggers that's part of his raise on that. That's why you're chasing muggers when you could be making billions of dollars in material science and then using that money to fund whatever the fuck you want to. Right. You know, yeah, like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's, let's look at how, you know, because people talk about, okay,man has enough money to be bad man. Why doesn't he you know improve the schools in Gotham right? Set up jobs for which which you know depending on which a writer is doing it he often also does. Okay. To be to be fair. Okay. Depending, a lot of that depends on the writer. Uh, you know, uh, Frank Miller, uh, uh, makes him a lot more of a dick than some other writers

have. Because it's Frank Miller. Right. Who. I'm just going to say that Frank Miller, who is a dick. Um, you know, and yeah, yeah, okay, whoever you are out on the internet, yeah, don't, don't at me with your stories of, no, man, a man, a man, a man, a man, a con. And he was awesome. No, look, look at what he writes. He's a dick like, no, come on. Um, I'm going to stand by that statement.

And if I meet the man in person, I'm, I may wind up having to, you know, confront that, but whatever. I'm never going to. So I feel confident I'm not gonna have to face consequences for saying that. So, but getting back to talking about Bruce Wayne, so the whole reason that he is a rich guy is because he's a competent man, hero, and he's a gadget hero.

In order to do that without being a super being, you have to have money. That's the beginning of his mythos. His fortune really is his superpower because it's the root of his ability to do all the other stuff that he does. And, you know, it's one thing to say, okay, well, it'll cost you $3.2 million to go from zero to, you know, the Batonobile and all the widgets. But then, if you own a really, really amazingly high performance, mill spec vehicle, you don't just own that thing. You have to maintain that thing. Right.

You know, and that thing is not operating to make you money. No, it's operating at a loss. There's a net loss. Everything that man does is a net loss. So, you know, the, and again, this kind of goes back to my thesis from last time. The overtones that we get now out days of, well, you know, he's this, he's this, you know, privileged rich guy who goes out and beats up on poor people in the mentally ill. Originally, the reason he was a millionaire was so he could be a crime fighter. If you get what I'm saying, it was, it was, it was a narrative means to an end. Yeah. Yeah. And he, you know, the duel identity bit was part of the character and was, well, you

know, he plays the upper class twit during the day to throw people off of his trail the same way that, you know, Clark Kent is a nebish, you know, so people don't suspect that he's Superman is the same kind of thing. You know, and then, and then I really want to spend some time talking about the villains that he goes up against. Okay. In the first, like a year and a half, two years of his existence. So, and this is also going to lead to kind of another segway. So you remember, hopefully from last episode, Bob Kane came up with

this idea, I'm going to do a bat guy, right? And he's going to have these wings. And this is kind of what I got. I don't have a lot else. And he invited Bill Finger over and he said, okay, take a look at this, tell me what you think. And Bill Finger basically made him into what we know as Batman. Right. Well then, Bill Finger is responsible for creating Bruce Wayne's tragic backstory. That whole plot was Bill Finger's idea. And in the second Batman story, the second villain that Batman goes up against is a jewel thief, the leader of a gang of jewel thieves named Frenchi Blake. Okay. because you do have a point, but it's a little bit of push back here. Friendship Blake is a very, very, very wasp-looking dude. Sure. Upper class looking jewel thief type, who is the second villain that Batman defeats.

All right. Now, the first super villain that Batman goes up against is Dr. Death is Detective Comics number 29. Okay, so not the professional wrestler from Texas, Steve Williams, technically from Oklahoma, but so not that guy. No, okay. It doesn't surprise me at all that this guy in wrestling with that moniker, but yeah. He got that nickname when he was in football, though, not when he was a wrestler. Like it carried over. How the fuck do you get the name, Dr. Death

Plan football? You smashed the shit out of anybody because you're a defensive lineman. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, he fucked people up or maybe he was on offensive lineman. Either way, he fucked people up. Period, lineman. Yeah, okay. So yeah, but that was Dr. Deft Steve Williams. Producer George grew up rather enjoying that guy as a wrestler. So, okay.

All right. So he fights Batman. Yeah, so this guy, Dr. Deft is a mad scientist. He is the first, you know, super villain, archetype bad guy that Batman goes up against. And he develops a toxin from plant pollen that he somehow uses to try to extort rich citizens of Gotham. He actually winds up killing one of them only to find out that by overhearing the the dead man's widow he

finds out that the guy had lost his fortune in the depression. So worth noting as part of the backstory of the creation of this whole mythos. And so Dr. Death appears to die in issue 29. He and his South Asian Indian henchmen both appear to die when the warehouse he's using as his layer catches on fire. or catches on fire. But he winds up showing back up in issue 30, I kept wanting to say episode 30, he shows up in issue 30, very heavily disfigured and really looking super villainous. Looks kind of like Red Skull only burned. And so that's kind of the first time that we see the super villain kind of archetype, but it's interesting to note that he's a super villain, but he's still doing pretty

kind of mundane crook kind of stuff at the end of the day. It's an extortion racket that Batman winds up beating. Okay. Over the course of the story. In and and in in 30 he winds up being thirdly defeated and is dead and st and remarkably stays dead. The mad monk shows up in issue 31. His Batman's first supernatural villain, he's a vampire. And he actually tries to kidnap and turn Bruce Wayne's fiance. So Bruce Wayne's already engaged? Yeah. Okay. And that character dispears somewhere over the course of Canon. And but it's interesting to note that because at this point in the story line,

Batman is not enough of an obsessive-brewding negative Nancy that he doesn't have a fiance. He has a relationship, he is, you know, he is attached enough to this woman that he winds up going to Hungary to rescue her from the clutches of the mad monk. And so there's this legitimate kind of, Bruce Wayne has a love life story. Mm-hmm. Which you hear about that now of, you know, Bruce Wayne has a, has a love life story.

Which you hear about that now and you're like, wait, and it's not catwoman, like that's not somebody who's wildly troubled like he is. Yeah, it's not somebody desperately damaged. Sadomaso skits on a rubber suit like him, you know, um, okay. And now I have to have to segue my best friend in college. One of his buddies, or a couple of his buddies in high school, made a fan film, you know, acidfully low budget camcorder kind of thing. One of them had actually managed to get a hold of a cowl reproduction of the of the of the Burton movie, the first Burton movie, you know Batman Cowell. Right, right. And they had to do something with it. So they made a fan film in which Batman and Catwoman, you know, mean up and their back and forth is involves the phrase of

Batman saying, well, you know, I mean basically, I missato, Mesa, Skitz, O, and Arumasud. And that, that encapsulation of the modern incarnation of Batman has stuck with me ever since I first heard that story. So yeah. Yeah, no, so at this point in you know Bruce Wayne somehow has a normal enough daytime existence that you know has a fiance. Like to us in the modern era of Batman, that's like and it's not Selena Kyle. Right. And it's, and it's not, you know, I'm trying to remember who else, you know, there've been a couple in recent comic book history. Oh, I've, I've got a bit of a, a Rouge's gallery, if you will. Nice. Thank you. When we get to the movies, because it becomes a major plot point for most of the movies. we get to the movies because it becomes a major plot point for most of the movies. Oh, yeah. Because the movies are, well, I won't spoil it. Yeah, yeah. I'll spoil a movie that's 30 plus years old. By all means. So, well, it's

boiled a conversation for when we get back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and it's also worth noting that the Mad Monk also has a henchwoman named Dala who is a werewolf. And she's also worth noting that the mad monk also has a henchwoman named Dala who is a werewolf and She's the first super villainous in badminton history, okay And now so far every one of these villains that I'm mentioning winds up coming to a very bad end This is of course pre-comics code authority. Right. And so Batman's villains tended to die. And Batman didn't ever intentionally murder any of them.

But when he punched them and they fell off of a roof, he didn't immediately dive to grab them to save them. Sure. Again, this is pre-CCA. Yeah. Yeah. And so throughout the 40s, what I find interesting about kind of the overritching tone of all this is, that's around the 40s Batman comics were consistently noir.

They were, I mean, they were, they were, you know, four color comics, but they were dark four color comics. Well, keep in mind, they came from detective comics, correct? Yeah, yeah. The hard boiled detective, the film noir detective, there's some bleeding over that happens with that. And so I think they were seeing elements of that. Oh, we totally are.

I think that's, yeah. it's not so much a matter. My my emphasis on this isn't so much a matter of my own surprise. As it is, I think it's really important to note because again, in our modern era of Batman, every incarnation of Batman that we have seen. Certainly in our lives, you and me, has been some kind of response to Adam West. Yes. And I think we've talked about it. I will, yeah, I will be speaking to that

when I get to the movies. Yes, absolutely. And so, and so, and the comics code authority, as we talked about way back in season one, wound up having a profound effect on the character of, particularly, of Batman. Mm-hmm. You know, Superman was always a boy scout. Superman was always the better angels of our nature. Superman was always the Apollonian sunlight. Yes. Yes. Batman was a vengeful agent of harsh justice and punishment.

And in the modern era of Batman, he has come back around to that with inventions. Yes. From being, you know, the campy, you know, 60s figure into what happened in the 70s, into the 80s, and etc. And in the films. Well, the campy 60s figure though, was a direct result of the CCA. 60s figure though was a direct result of the CCA. Oh yeah. They were all D D D N Warified. They were all defanged. Yes. Everybody had their claws pulled. Yeah. Um, and so, so these these early comics have a lot of death. They have a lot of like real seediness and it's a theme I'm going to continue coming back to. So and I mentioned this in the last episode, but this is where it actually shows up in my notes. In Batman number 47, which

comes around, this is a number of years forward in the timeline, but it's kind of important to mention here. He encounters Joe Chill, the mugger who killed his parents, and this is where we learn Joe Chill's name. Okay. And in the original pre-crisis on Infinite Earth's origin story because DC can't maintain canon to save their fucking lives. But anyway, in the original, in the original origin story, Bruce memorized the mugger's face in that moment. After his parents had been shot, the man's face was seared on his brain in very doc savage kind of language. And so when he re-encounter Joe Chille,

Joe Chille isn't a low level mugger anymore. He's a gang leader. He has, he has moved up to now being the head of a criminal organization, a group. And so Batman confronts him and he says something to chill about the night that you know you killed Jonathan Wayne and she'll says you you can't know that and he says no I know that because I'm the son of the man you murdered and he actually winds up, you know, giving away his identity to chill. Well, chill gets away from him. And runs back to his gang. And, you know, in the process of telling the members of his gang what happened,

he basically let slip to the gang that he's the one responsible for creating the Batman. And his own man gunned him down before they realize, hey, wait a minute, you know who is. And so they shoot him and he's mortally wounded and the goons are surrounding him and they're like, they're trying to get the information out of him. Who is he? Who is he? And then, you know, Batman shows up and knocks him all unconscious and then she'll dies in his arms telling him, well, I guess you got your vengeance in the end, Batman. And he, in that moment, he answers, no Bruce Wayne got his revenge. It is the closing, closing Coda for that little episode. So again, vengeance.

I am vengeance. I am the knight is, you know, the line from the cartoon series from the 1990s, which, you know, long, long made, it's been re-b blessed. Which actually is a line from the original script for the, I almost said Buster Keaton. Michael Keaton. Yeah, or Diane Keaton, whatever. Alex P Keaton.

But anyway, it was originally. I'm just fiction. Diane Keaton. In the in the little vest like from what he here uh Woody Allen and the in the eccentric kind of haircut in the in the glasses yeah anyway but but that line was actually originally in the script I am the night you know it's like what are you when he's like I'm the night but instead he said I'm Batman so kind of interesting that that shows up in the

vehicle. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it's it's it's it's worth. Yeah, cross pollination is a business remarkable thing. So, so, and again, so we're and now this is this so we're jumping ahead here. This is 1948. And again, the people he's fighting aren't the mentally ill in this case. And they're not desperate low-level muggers. It is, again, a criminal criminal syndicate a gang of people who he's who he's taking down who you know one individual you know Yeah, anyway, I'm going back to my you know This is what we wish you know rich people were doing with their money instead of whatever it is they're actually doing. Right. Right. You know, um, and so then now backtracking back to the, to the earlier in his timeline.

What rich people were doing with their money prior to Batman coming out, we're trying to do a coup d'etat and the American government. Oh, yeah, that's true. Only a few years earlier. 30, 30, 34. I want to say 34. Yeah, I think you're right. Because it was FDR's second year in. So yeah, 34.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, just a... Yes. Bad man. It's a smettling. It was a smettling butler, right? Yeah.

The war is a racket. Yep. God, he's got such an interesting story. Like, that needs to be a biopic. Because he spent so many years, he even said, I spent 34 years being a warrior for colonialism. What a racket, basically. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But what do you call it?

Yeah, so yes, we very much wish that rich people were doing something other than that with their money. Yeah, but that's what they were doing. Yeah, so Hugo Strange Mm-hmm shows up in DC number 36. Okay, in February of 1940. This is another mad scientist and So he shows up in 36 and then I don't remember if it was 37 or 38, but an episode or two, an issue or two later, after Batman takes him down and you know, hands him over to the authorities, he's the first Batman villain to escape from an asylum. asylum. And now it's interesting to me that Hugo Strange is not in his original appearance. Magalamaniacal, he is a sociopath, but he's not criminally insane. And for whatever reason, the writers decided that when they needed him to escape from somewhere, it was well he's escaping from the city of Psyllum.

It wasn't named Arkham yet. Okay. Arkham was not part of the mythos yet in 40. But that's the first time we start seeing the idea that these people are not right in the head, showing up. So when he first appeared though, he wasn't crazy, he was evil. Now in spring of 1940, Batman got his own title. Now, he continued appearing in Detective Comics, but now he had his appearances in Detective Comics and there was a Batman comic book. And in Batman number one, one of the stories in Batman number one was the introduction of Catwoman. Okay. In 40. And she was introduced, presumably Bruce Wayne's earlier fiance has somehow been shuffled off stage.

And a little bit of a guy, a catwoman shows up and a finger and cane. Basically both in interviews said that they introduced the character to introduce a romantic interest, to give the comics some sex appeal and to attract female readers. The night you tang of comic book writers never ceases to amaze me. It's true with movie producers too, it just says, you know. Yeah, okay. But like, okay, so when we get to talking about the TV series, I think but like okay, so so When we get to talking about the TV series, I think you know bat girl Mm-hmm is a meaningful

Example of well, we want to add a female character to increase female to get women interested And okay, so because bat girl is a heroine and she kicks ass and you know girl power and okay So I mean I can understand why a girl would be interested watching an episode that has Batgirl in it Why a girl or a woman Would be drawn to the comic because of cat woman Who is Admittedly not evil but is still an antagonist, a villainous, like where do you get the idea that, you know, a Jean Harlow, you know, look like villainous is going to increase female readership. Like, what's the...

Like, I freely admit that I am not any kind of expert on the female mind, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me. Sure. Yeah. I think that it's it's one of those. Batman is a male fantasy. Okay. And cat woman is a female male fantasy. And so it therefore boys like Batman. So therefore, boys like Batman, girls will like cat woman. As surely as the sun rises in the east, obviously. Yeah. Okay.

I guess that makes sense in a certain, you really don't understand how representation works do you kind of way. But okay. Yeah. It's a, I don't wanna say lazy. I do think they were doing the best they could. They just didn't have women working with them in the workplace at that time as people in the bullpen

doing the art. Or the writing or the ending or the ending. Like women were frozen out. So, it's very similar to when I, when I taught comic books a few years back, God, that was forever ago. But when I taught comic books, I, I did an entire week on African Americans or, or just a black because, uh, T'Challa is not American. But, uh, I did an entire week on Black superheroes

and I was like, look, here's Luke Cage, here's, Power Man. I said, keep in mind, at the time, pretty woke. But it's still two white guys writing what they think black guys are. Yeah. And I think that what you're seeing there is two guys writing what they think black guys are. Yeah. And I think that what you're seeing there is two guys writing what they think a woman would want to be based on

what they know a man wants to be. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. I can see that. I can see that. And so I want to note here. So let's see if mentioned. Bruce Wayne's backstory, the utility built batterings,

all of Batman's gadgets, design of his costume, Dr. Death, Mad Monk, Jochelle, Hugo Strange. So far, all of that has been Bill Finger's ideas. Bill Finger. It's interesting because I don't really hear about him. Not Bob Kane. No, you don't hear about him very much because Bob Kane was the one who went and had the talk with the editors about the contract and got his name put on everything as the as the creator of that man and Bill Finger wound up dying of you know long-term illness and and you know essentially in in poppery. I don't remember what year without having gotten anywhere near the share of credit he deserved for his part in the creation

of Batman and like every member practically every member of the Rose Gallery, notably Catwoman was mostly Cain's idea. I bring all of that up because in my notes for once this was an idea that was mostly Keynes. Okay. And that also brings us because now we're talking about Batman issue number one and I know I know this is something we're going to be talking about a lot when we get talking about the TV show and the movies.

Because the name has already come up a couple of times, especially in the Nolan films, the Joker. The Joker shows up in Batman number one as well. And there is no consensus about who was most responsible for the character of the Joker. Okay. Cain and Finger, of course, were, you know, the two main creators of most everything, but, let's say, I've got to run down here somewhere, but the artist at the time, because they needed another artist to do Batman because

Kane was doing the detective comic stuff, so they need another artist to come in Man, I was looking up earlier and somehow I can't find it in my notes right now, but So it could be the Joker is So it could be the Joker is Cain's, because Cain basically, Cain is in a hurry to take credit for like fucking everything. Fingert basically took credit for part of the visual inspiration for the character, because he heard in his story, Cain mentioned that, hey, Jerry Robinson is the artist, that Cain said, hey, you know, Jerry and I have this idea for this villain, what do you think? And he will wound up a finger that is wound up being inspired by that to find a photo of the actor Conrad Viet as the character Gwyn Plain in the movie The Man Who Lasts from 1928. And in that film, the idea of the character is this fellow who winds up suffering an injury

and he has a surgery that permanently alters his face so that his face is constantly stuck in this rictus of a grin. He can't stop doing it. I'm looking at the photo of it right now. I don't know how well this will translate, but- Oh, it totally does. Yeah, I've seen it. And I'm now showing this virtually, of course,

over the internet to Damien. It is disturbing. Like, I mean, it has- It has overtones of German expressionism. Like, that's how outboard it is. Yeah, yeah. And so Jerry Robinson says that he drew a sketch of a Joker card from a deck of cards

that was the original inspiration for the character and Kane has a different story about, you know, who came up with the idea first. So we don't actually know for once, Kane did not try to say, no, no, it was all my idea, but he leaned in that direction, but in this case, it was both finger and Robinson saying, well, you know, what an all-him.

Right. And so we don't really know who of the trio of the trio for it. We don't know who it was who was responsible for mostly for the creation of the character. So Joker's origin is largely unknown. Yup. That's cool. That's the real reason. Joker's origin is largely unknown. Yup. That's cool. That's the real one.

That's cool. Because art totally imitates art there. Yeah, totally. And so the thing is, so he shows up in Batman number one. And Robinson got interviewed in 1975. And Robinson was in that interview saying this was my idea. So the way it's phrased is going to reflect that. But Robinson basically said that he wanted to have a character who is going to be a

moriarty to Batman's homes. Makes sense. And what I find important about that is we're still looking at Batman as the world's greatest detective. It's still in the detective comics roots. Okay. And so the Joker was intended to be smart, resourceful, and utterly and completely depraved and evil. Right. In his first appearances, he was

no kidding a complete psychopath. Although they didn't have the vocabulary for it then, he was a serial killer. Okay. Okay. And he, unlike most of Batman's antagonists, he did not use a gun because they wanted

to stress the fact that he was more creative, he was more intelligent, he was more resourceful. Gotcha. And therefore, more terrifying. And therefore, scarier. And so his original weapon of choice was Joker Toxin, which was introduced in Batman issue number one. Okay, that killed people and left their faces in this horrible Richter's grin, kind of condition.

Now, finger, like the idea, I've said, yeah, this guy's great. This is awesome. Finger did not want the Joker to stick around. Finger wanted the Joker to die. And the way the way the second, because there were two Joker stories, there was a, you know, part one and part two, in Batman, in Batman number one. And in the second one of those stories, Finger wrote it originally with the Joker dead. But their editor, Whitney Ellsworth, insisted on a panel being added at the end of it to show the Joker had survived. Very Moriarty. Very Moriarty, and the reason F finger didn't want him to survive was

having a recurring villain made Batman look incompetent Which which back to what one of the points that came up in in our last episode about competence of the police like And and has been something that critics of that man have pointed out ever since is like, okay, no, look, seriously, you keep throwing him in the asylum, he keeps escaping and he keeps literally killing people. Like ethically, your whole, I will not kill thing is now a moral failing because every time you refuse to do that, he's gonna get loose and he's gonna kill somebody. So like, where is the ethical balance there? You know, so, you know, and that's, and that's where it's

rooted. Finger originally wanted the Joker to die. And the editor went, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Lords, who were more frequent Batman antagonists. And again, this goes back to my original thesis about, you know, ganglords, criminals, the mafia influence on, on, on the milieu, and who it was, who it was that the writers and the audience of Batman wanted to see being brought to justice. And so now this is, no, no, we want to we want to have a villain who can actually challenge this guy who isn't who isn't just going to be, you know, a mook in a week. And and so that's that's the origin of the Joker. And I think with that development that puts in motion a whole host of other things. Yes. That accrete over time that ad that get that he glommed onto the method become part of the mythology

over time that changed the character of who he was originally. And so, kind of put a pin in the Joker for now because it's gonna show up again later on, both when I'm talking about comics and of course when you start talking about films. Right. Now in Detective Comics number number 38 Robin shows up So this is I want to say spring 40 maybe fall 40

um and the original idea again Robin was Bill Fingers idea okay Another one now in fairness Everybody had a goddamn sidekick in the 40s Nope, no not 1840 Robin was the first one In fairness, everybody had a goddamn sidekick in the 40s. Nope. No? Not in the 1840. Robin was the first one. He was the first, really.

Robin is the first example. Okay, I take it back. Because I was thinking of Bucky when Cap came around. So like in that time, you had teenagers, but like you just said, Robin was the first. So everybody's kind of bouncing off of Robin. Yeah, and this is again an example of where we started talking about this last episode.

The Batman is one of the archetypes and the Batman comics are responsible for so many of these archetypes. Sure. And so Robin shows up in Detective Comics 38. And Finger wanted to introduce the character because Batman is the world's greatest detective. But when he's working solo, he doesn't have anybody to talk to. but when he's working solo, he doesn't have anybody to talk to.

So it's a lot harder for the writer to explain what his deductive process is. Unless he's got a mentee. Unless he's got a mentee or Watson figure a partner who he's like, you know, and I figured it out because I mean, obviously, you know, the cane, you know, and I figured it out because I mean, obviously, you know, the cane, you know, he's carrying a cane. So obviously, you know, wounding somehow, he's got this thing and I've spotted that because his left shoe was more heavily worn than his right one. And I knew about the dog because the cane, you know, shows where

here, here, and here, and here, and you know, don't, don't, don't dirt on his, you know, did on it, on it, on it, on it, on it, on his, you know, cuff of his jeans, shows that he was, you know, all of that stuff. Um, you know, all of those kind of Watsonian, or not Watsonian, those Holmesian kind of details, I need to have a foil to tell that stuff to him. So we have Robin. And Robin's origin, of course, is Dick Grayson, and of the flying Grayson's, and his origin involves mob boss, Tony Zuko. And it's only after our conversation,

only after you pointed it out that I realized, wow, that's really Italian in it. That's not just Italian. Wow. That's what people would have called Italian. Like that's how badly like stereotypical it is, you know, Tony, Tony Zuko. Yeah. Danny in Greece, like with that name. Yeah. Yeah. And so originally, it starts out just being boss Zuko, but later on, we find out his first name is Anthony Tony. And Zuko kills Dick's family as part of an extortion plot against the Haley circus.

And so again, the antagonists we're looking at are, you know, mundane is once again a month in crime lord. Clay faced puppet master both appear in 1940 as well. Wait, wait, I want to go back just a little bit. Okay. Robin in some ways then is like a blend of de Kenensian and Horatio Alger meets comic books. You're down on your luck, things aren't good, you're orphaned. That's weird. That's way Dickens. Yeah. But also Horatio Alger, because like through his goodness, he is helped by a rich benefactor. Yeah, his, yeah, well, well, and there's a whole shit ton of unpack there. I'm gonna talk about Horatio Alger too. Uh-huh.

She's Ann Dickens, but more Alger. Yeah, yeah, Alger was much more specific. Dickens was more genre. Well, Dickens was more genre and at his heart, Dickens was his era's version of a bleeding heart liberal. He's showing everything. Yeah, we wouldn't have a Christmas story if he weren't a bleeding heart liberal. Wow. Yeah, I had not. Wow. Yeah, you're totally right, though. Yeah. I know you're totally right, though. Yeah.

And so when we're talking about Robin, it's kind of, it's worth pointing out that when we get to the CCA and all of that, one of the complaints that was specific, Batman was a big target of, I don't have his name in front of me right now uh... of the overwrote the books that said yet you have a really had a man on about the bad man comics

well we're talking about the guy who actually the psychiatrist who wrote about you know yeah because if alver was the the the senator all you know you against it Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wanted to say worther, but I was like no, that's the candy worth it A lot a lot more bitter a lot more bitter than worther. Yeah, less variety too That's good. Thank you No, worth and worth and like had a mad on for for Batman specifically like how to mat on for Batman specifically, because it I think I think to worth and Batman represented the quote unquote worst of the superhero genre and the detective comic genre. Sure. Because it was it was dark and grim and awful and you know, crime,

lore and grittiness and murder and all this stuff. And one of the things that he accused the Batman comics of doing was, and he also, he kind of said the same thing about, you know, Bucky and any other sidekicks, but he picked on Batman because Batman was the first one to do it, that the relationship between Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson was obviously homosexual and it was insinuating sexuality into the minds of youth. And it was the 50s and people didn't understand that like, no man, if you're gay, you're gonna be gay. And if you're not, you're not even gonna pick up on it. Like, you know, because I mean, that was at the time where you had the mental hygiene videos and there was one called the homosexual.

And I remember very clearly, deep voice guy saying, one never knows when the homosexual is about. Really? Yeah. And the shit, about. Really? Yeah. And the shit I'm gonna look at it. Yeah, it's, it was, oh Jesus, it was a towarded force of fucked upness. Yeah. Um, it's this kid cut school and he like kind of climbs through a,

a, a chain link fence and he's down under the boardwalk and having a good time and an older man kind of shows up, Fedora kind of creepy, offers him a cigarette. You're just like a couple steps away from Dudley being in the comic book shop in different strokes. But yeah, it treats it bad. Wow. Yeah, but well it treats it. It treats it bad Wow, yeah, well because I mean obviously if you're homosexual you must be a pedophile because you know

Obviously right because you know fifties and like the fuck are you people thinking? Yeah? Like like did you did you bother like looking at the at the actual Like artwork that that they were producing for the right right like none of that none of that involved You know teenage boys like no If you if you actually look at it. No, no, they're very clearly into men. Yeah. Like there are adults within adults with an adult sexuality. Sexuality like, you know, but anyway, yeah. So, so, so yeah, no, so, so worth and, you know, key fiverver as worthens mouthpiece. Yeah, kind of the legitimate. The legitimate.

The legitimate. The legitimate or, yeah, made a huge big deal about that. And so, you know, that had an impact on the way that developed in the comics. And now we're kind of getting toward the end of what I was actually able to get like notes on over the course of the week. So in 41, well, first in 40, we see Clayface and puppet masters show up. And I wasn't able to find any real information about the puppet master of 1940.

Everything I found was about the ventriloquist who doesn't actually show up until 70s. So I don't have very much about that, but Clayface shows up early on. And it's interesting that in our modern era, we see Clayface faces this very tragic figure. Because of the animated series, where the tragedy of his condition and Bruce Wayne's desire,

as Batman, try to find a way to help him, to find a way to cure him, is a really big deal, and a really big part of that story. That's not there. In 1940, he's a shapeshifting criminal. But no, he is a science fiction villain in the same vein as the evil scientists, that I've already mentioned, Hugo Strange and Dr. Death. They're sci-fi villains. He's a sci-fi villain. In his case, he has a

super ability that he's using for evil, but again, he's a sci-fi villain, which now goes back to this being 1939-1940, and we have the world's fair in New York. We have the first world con, and we have this era in which on the right we have futurism, and on the left we have the Futurians, who were actually excluded from the first World Con because they were explicitly leftist. You know, and both groups are future-ists, and they're both looking at, you know, scientific advancement being, you know, the way forward in technology, you know, building, building very different visions of utopia. And so, so this, you know, science fiction element is still there, is very much there throughout all of these stories. And of course, Batman being a sci-fi hero, being a gadgetere with all these, you know, cutting edge technological tools that has disposal,

two holes at his disposal, you know, is a big thing. So that's, that's 1940. In 41, Scarecrow shows up for the first time. And again, just like you, I was looking, I was looking over the chronology going like, really? Yeah. That'll, yeah. So yes, he is. Scarecrow shows up in 41, followed by later in 41, the penguin. Damn. And I want to talk about them. And we're going to, we're going to kind of wrap up what I'm talking about in this episode with the penguin.

All right, cool. Cool. Let's, let's talk about the penguin. Yeah. Oswald Cobblepot. Yes. Right? Yes. So just a moment ago, I was talking about

Tony Zool. Chesterfield Cobble. Chesterfield. Yeah. Cobblepot. Right. Thank you. I had forgotten his middle name.

I was like, I'm not even going to try to submit it. I don't want to screw up his middle name. So I'm just going to go this first and last. But yes, Oswald Chesterfield. Cobblepot. Yes. So just a minute ago, I was talking about Boss Zuko, Tony Zuko,

and then in 42, we see the Moroni family for the first time show up. So we're gonna be back to Italian gangsters, but for now, we're talking about an uppercrust cigarette holder using top hat and monocle wearing Monopoly man caricature. Yes. And he refers to himself as the gentleman of crime. His aristocratic bearing and, you know, a Mayflower ancestry kind of background

is a pivotal part of his character and is a pivotal part of his identification. Like, he as a character is like, no, no, you don't understand. You're all the hoi paloi. Right. I'm an aristocrat. Right.

Like, you're all idiots. Like, number one, I'm smarter than you all. Number two, I'm just better than you. You know, because I'm a comapot, you know. Sure. Down it's interesting. The inspiration for the character was actually his cigarette ad. Yeah, it changed your feel. Yeah, it's interesting. The inspiration for the character was actually his cigarette

ad. Yeah, the cigarettes, they actually had a penguin with a cigarette holder in their ads as a cartoon character. And so finger looked at that and went, if we, that's too good, we gotta do something with that. Right. And so, and because to him looking, you know, white tie and tails, which is what Cobblebot always wears, looked to him like an Emperor Penguin, and he was like, this is just too good visually for us not to use. Right.

And so he is a crime boss. He is an upper class crime boss who works to do at least early on. He works to give everything he does a patina of legitimacy while he's doing, you know, skull duggering in the background. Like Batman, he's kind of a gadget here because his umbrella has either a gun or a knife-blade or a dark gun or a helicopter. Helicopter blades, like gas. Big gas. Yeah, you know. So he's a gadget here.

He's a genius. He's he's one of the villains who consistently is able to keep up with Batman or occasionally even out think him. And the thing is he's clearly a character. He's clearly a comic book villain. But the penguin, unlike the Joker, and unlike a bunch of villains we're gonna get to going forward, he is entirely sane. He's totally in control of his actions. And his stick is,

I mean, aside from his visual stick, stick, his modus operandi is a crime lord. his his modus operandi is he's a crime lord and you know it's it's it's it's it's a distinguishing trait of a large proportion of Batman's Rogues gallery that in the end there are some variation on gangsters. Yes. Superman's villains line up, in Morgor Zero, whatever you want to call it, is made up of monsters, primordial things from dimension X, you know, alien, alien cyborgs. Well, Superman is a good immigrant and he's fighting the bad immigrants. Batman is a good millionaire and he's fighting the bad millionaires. Okay.

Shit. Okay. Well, I'm done. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Sure. Thank you for coming to Damien's TED Talk.

Dave's German. Sorry, did I just steal your thunder for the next 10 minutes? No, no, no, no, not real. But like you just managed to basically find the rationale for all of it. But where I was going to go with it was narratively, you're dealing with the difference between somebody who is wishful film in the form of a super normal, wishful fulfillment in the form of godling a superman a a urban match. Yeah, you know, um, that that, um, you know, Diane Icy and versus Percian almost. Kind of. Yeah, I like that. Like that. Um, or versus Jason, like, I'm trying to figure out

what, what mortal he would Occasionally and herculean versus Odyssean. Yeah, there you go Hercules hercules is a demingod who can literally change the course of a rivers flow Through blue strength which like violates multiple laws of physics and like flow dynamics. Yes, and and andus figures out, okay, no, seriously, we're going to trick him. Yep. Like, so here's what we're going to do. We're going to build a horse. Yeah.

Right? Don't get me started. Don't fucking get me started on Odysseus. He was a one-trick pony. No pun intended, actually, there. But, oh my god. But it's fun. It's a good pun. It's, yeah, it is. You there, but oh my God, but it's fun. It's a good pun.

It's, yeah, it is. You know, so, yeah. Well, you know, I mean, we're talking about a K and Bards, like how many, how many tricks could they, that's a good point. That's a good point. He's, he's a protean, you know, in, in, in many ways, Odysseus is the ultimate beginning of the Batman archetype.

He is the competent and archetype, you know, back in an era when there were only so many things that you could be competent to in. True. Very true. You know, yeah. So like, yeah, okay, the tricky is, is, okay, we're going to discuss ourselves with some kind of beast and, you know, he's not going to notice okay, we're gonna discuss ourselves with some kind of beast and he's not gonna notice us because we're hidden.

Right. Okay, you know, yeah, he's repeating the same trick, but like, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's been a while. So, yeah, you know, we've, yeah. We, yeah, as a species, have developed multiple tricks. You know, in the same way, what's Hercules got, Yeah, yeah, we as a species have to have developed multiple tricks You know in the same way what's Hercules got? He's got well, you know, he's kind of invulnerable and he's super strong

What's Batman got invulnerability super strength super speed heat vision cold breath? Flight Hercules can't do that true Superman really couldn't at first either, but it was fair. True. But in the mess, we don't see Hercules jumping over anything. That's true. Hercules was a white man. He could jump.

Yeah, we typically see him yanking things or holding things up. Yeah, it's for holding things down. Yeah. So and we could I could I could get into like him a nerd dumb about, you know, wrestling as the primordial martial art with their really in myths, but that's for the time. Yeah. But okay.

So back to that man, he fights gangsters, Superman fights creatures. Yeah, yeah, Superman fights monsters in the, you know, sense of the Titans. Yeah. Whereas Batman fights monsters in the term in the sense of human monsters. You know, and the Joker, again, early on is a really great example of that because he truly is monstrous. Like in the early comics, it's really hard for, well, it's not so hard for modern readers in the 2020s to understand it because the Joker has gone back to his roots and then some. But, you know, anybody reading the Batman comics in the you know 50s to the 60s would have a hard time understanding how evil the Joker was in the 40s. And so in his roots, those are the forces that Batman

Arrays himself against. And at this point in his development, the penguin is in many ways kind of a very strong archetype for all of them, and that he is very clearly a three color comic book character. He is a caricature. He is funny looking. He has a gimmick. But again, at the end of the day, he is super abilities or money,

just like Bruce Wayne and whatever plan he's able to come up with. And it's Batman's job to thwart that plan through better planning. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I mean, at this point, that's kind of where I've gotten to So, I mean, at this point, that's kind of where I've gotten to, with the development of the arc. And I think when I talk about it next, we're going to be getting into the 50s, which of course is going to get us into the CCA. And actually, even before then, after the war,

there was already a shift in a less dark direction, and colors getting brighter and the tone changing. And then it just, it got accelerated and exaggerated by the CCA because all of a sudden, you know, Batman couldn't just let the bad guys fall into a vat of chemicals and say a fitting end for one like him, which, of course, is a quote from Detective Comics, you know, the 27. very first appearance is. Oh, wow. That's how that's how the chemical syndicate winds up ending is, you know, the mastermind of the murder plot, you know, winds up falling into a chemical vat and dying some hideous awful death.

Sure. While Batman stands over him and says a fitting end for one like him. Oh, like, oh, wow. him. Like, oh wow, okay. So you really are a vengeance and the night, holy crap. Yeah. You're not kidding. And so at this point in the character's development, that's kind of who he is.

And it's really interesting to see the way that Morph's going forward. Sure. And first changes in one direction and then changes really hard back and then gets kind of flanderized back from there until we wind up seeing the character that we have in the comics.

Now who yeah, well, get into that when I get into that. until we wind up seeing the character that we have in the comics now who Yeah, well get into that when I get into that, but he's not the character we want, but he's the character we deserve Well done. Thank you. Well done. You have been watching the Nolan films So yeah, so that's that's at this point point that's kind of what I've got in a condition to be discussed with any detail. What do you think? What does your take here? Yeah, I think you're dead on with he is what people wish

millionaires would do with their money. He is the super normal. And I think there is a very important place for that in our lexicon of comic books and what have you. I think that what I said this time around is like he is taking on his own people who are just the other side of the same coin for him in the same way that Superman is taking on his own people. We're taking the side of the same coin for him. I think it's interesting because what we're looking at is the late 1940s, so you've got the Marshall Plan, you've got really high taxation, pay your goddamn taxes, and we all do better. And so he's kind of with fisticuffs doing that for people who'd rather get around the law. And Superman

is very much beating up on the wrong kind of immigrants, which is also a concern in a fear in the 1950s. But sticking to Batman, I think that, you know, it's Batman in the 1940s, there's some gritty shit because there was a gritty war and then there's the post-war stuff where he's, you know, bringing people to justice who are trying to get around their civic obligations on some level. So I think that's an interesting thing. So my prediction is in the 1950s He gets legitimized in some way shape or form works with Commissioner Gordon a shit ton more

and then he's taking on the super villain of the week And always getting his man because it was all about, well, it was the CCA, so it was all about conformity and it was all about that. Well, it was about reinforcement of legitimacy of authority. Yes. No subversive shittle out. Right. Trying to think of just shit out of the haze code, basically, because it's the same thing. Most of it was sex based, but yeah. But yeah.

Yeah. You have to have the good guy win at the end of the time. Yeah. Virtue was always triumphant. Yep. And you can't have the cops be crooked in any way, Shaper. Yeah. And yeah.

So, so, so, Bodler would be proud for those not in the know, bolderizing is to, you know, change a story to make it somehow more moral or, you know, take immoral elements out of it and most famously, Bodler was one of the people who insisted on changing the ending of

King Lear for many decades because he believed that the good daughter dying was not fitting. She needed to be properly rewarded and so he created a happy ending for King Lear. awarded and so he created a happy ending for King Lear. Kind of takes the tragedy out of it, but okay. Yeah, kind of misses the fucking point. Yeah. So speaking as an English teacher, it's it's criminal, just like fucking criminal, but there you go. And it is bolderizing things is of course a trope.

And that's what happened to all super, all comics period in the 50s. Well, okay, that's not true. Many kinds of comics just fucking disappeared. Yes. The ones that stayed. Super hero comics got boldly rised really hard. Yeah. And Batman in particular.

So, and next time we talk about this, the details of specifically what happened we'll be able to get into. Good. Well, for right now, what's your reading? I, right now I'm reading a lot of student work. Do not recommend. Do not one one one star. Do not do not recommend. And I'm only the only reason I'm not want one one star do not do not recommend and I'm and I'm only doing reason I'm not saying zero stars is because sometimes it gets so bad it's funny um yeah I don't I don't have I don't have a book or anything right now to recommend how about you yeah I'm'm actually gonna stray a little bit.

I recommend Kingdom Come, but not as a comic as an audiobook. It's really neat as an audiobook. I listen to it on cassette tape 20 years ago. Okay, wait. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. Yeah.

Okay, so Kingdom Come is a graphic novel. Yes it is. Yes. How do you turn that into an audiobook? Really good voice work. A little bit of sound effects, but really good voice work. And it did a really good job. I don't know that I've actually ever read Kingdom come, but I can tell you a lot of the details of it. In a similar fashion, there's plenty of comics that I've read and I can tell you the same amount of detail having listened to Kingdom Come. But go listen to Kingdom Come. It's really cool. Okay. So, yeah. All right. You know, the recommendation I'm going to make right now is I'm actually going to

recommend the Court of Owls storyline from the more recent Batman comics because I think there are some elements in that series of stories that kind of bring Bruce Wayne and Batman kind of back to the roots of what we talked about what you mentioned about him being a millionaire who's fighting the bad millionaires. The Court of Aller's storyline, I mean, it goes way over the top at the end, but there are some really good writing involved in it. Nice. I'd also as a matter of fact, another time that it's Batman against a bad rich person.

I'd also recommend looking into the origin of the character Hush. Alright. Look that up and that's definitely worth reading. Yeah. Okay. Because we see a little bit of Bruce Wayne's pre-trauma childhood. Gotcha. In that story line and it's pretty fascinating. Okay.

Well, so if anybody wants to argue with you on social media, where should they go? Well, you know, to hell, first of all, but if they really actually desperately need to find me to say something to me, hopefully something positive, but if you absolutely must say something negative, I can be found at EH Blalock, both on the Twitter and on TikTok now.

And on Instagram, I can be found at MrBlalock, MRBlalock, B-L-A-Y-L-O-O-C-K. And if you want to shout at the two of us for some reason, hopefully praise, but whatever, you can find us at Geek History time on Twitter. And where can they find you, sir? You can find me every Tuesday night on twitch.tv, forward slash capital puns, sling and puns for the last four and a half years, no sign of stopping. And you can also find me on the Twitter and the Instagram at the harmony, two H's in

the middle, on both the Twitter and the Instagram. So everything else is mine. That's for me to find. So for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm in Blalock. And until next time, na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. Have a good night.