A Geek History of Time - Episode 88 - Batman through the Ages Part X

Episode Date: January 2, 2021

Wow. You're gonna like this. Oh no I'm not. Cause there is no god damn middle. This is not unlike ancient Rome by the way. Not so much the family of circus. Yeah. I did, when I did Miratialia, I had the same issue with my auntie.

I wanted to create self-sustaining farms and got into crystals. I know. Okay. I understand that. But yeah, I'm reading Livy, who is a shitty historian. Because Irrigan is. Others say that because Laurentia's body was common to all the shepherds around, she was called a she-wolf,

which is a Latin term for horror. You were audible, lassies. It was just most of it, was you slamming the table. As the Romanists at the table, well, duh. Yeah. Obviously, Ipso facto. Right. You know, it's your age, you know, duh.

You have a sword rat. This is a history of time. I hope that worked virtually up here in Northern California. And I want to note for the audience and user that you would be very proud of my wife this afternoon. She was having a conversation with a coworker long in the short of it was he explained that he was going to be going to a workshop to improve his golf skills. And she said, well what specifically you're going to be doing? This is I'm going to learn how to hit my driver. And without missing a beat, my wife said, well, I recommend that you make sure not to tuck your thumb under

your fingers because I hear that's how you can break it. Nice. And I was like, oh my God, I have to share that with Damien because that is good. So, who are you? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I'm a Latin teacher up here in Northern California teaching virtually and yelling at school boards in two districts. Let me know, hire me out. Feel free to ask for a sponsorship.

I will be the Thomas Payne of yelling at your school board. Oh, I like that comparison. I was going to say at the risk of being appropriative. I kind of just want to start calling you Damian yells at school boards. Like as your epithet, like, I like it. I like it. Yeah. I figure out how to, or actually know you know what we can turn it into a kenneng name. There you go.

I had to translate that into old English. Bordella. Bordella. Shouter. Shouter at councils. I like it. Oh yeah, yeah. Council shouter. Council shouter. Yeah. Council skolder. Council, Council shoulder. Council shoulder. Yes. Damien. Who is council shoulder? So I, okay, now you have a child. So this explains why you didn't automatically throw her up against the wall and take her right then and there for that point. Okay. Yeah. Cause man. Jesus. It was, it was impressive. It was it was very very well done. I was quite proud nicely done Cool, it's her. I don't even have to say good day madam. Oh Man, yeah other than that. Yeah, I have nothing. Oh actually, I do have something. I have two children I already introduced your son. I have two children. I already introduced your son.

I have two children, an eight year old and a 10 year old. My eight year old and 10 year old have decided that they're gonna write a story about cats. And because my son is my son, he researched the daylights out of different breeds of cats. So then they spent the entire afternoon after school on Wednesday running back and forth asking Alexa where different breeds of cats were from and then running

over to the giant wall map that we had to find the country so that they could name a city that the cat was from for the whole thing. And because my daughter is my daughter and you're going to especially love this part, she started the story of the cats as in the forest, there was a shed and in that shed lived a cat. I just cut chills. Not even kidding. Yeah. That's, that's, yeah. That's awesome. And I might be paraphrasing, but it was super token-ass.

That's, yeah, no, that's brilliant. Yeah, that's just like, yeah, you know, I understand that you're, you know, an atheist at all, but you truly are doing God's like without even realizing it. No, I did, because I flooded the river nearby and slaughtered the entire village. So it's unfortunately, I'm doing, you know, that I'm doing Marduk's work is the problem. So, is a Marduk or ishke Gole the one that's the really large mastiff No, that's Marmaduke. Yeah, never mind. Nice. Nice. Well, thank you So not like we're less than two minutes in four and a half. Yeah Okay, well, it feels faster. Yeah, there you go

But you hit with the pun first as proxy by your wife. Yeah, I would I don't know if that counts, but I count it. I'm counting it. Okay, well there you go. So what brings us together today? Yet another Batman tale. Brothers and sisters. Yet another episode in our saga. Yes. episode in our in our saga truly saga yeah of of the Batman and so when we left off

we had gotten through Schumacher yes and had had coined the term dr. Dunoz for use on, I mean, you guys had coined it before, but, you know, you and your friends, but, but it has now, I'm adopting it. Yeah, it's been rehabilitated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As code for that particular thing that, you know, Schumacher and occasionally Michael Bay, oh my kid, frequently Michael Bay. Yeah. It's a little of something is great. then a lot of it must be better and Let's not worry about whether these flavors work well together. Let's just do all of them up the screen Yeah, let's just check all of them off onto the screen and see what sticks. Yeah, well, you know Peewee Herman was in one of the schumer. Oh no

That was a Burton one That was a Burton one. So yeah, this time we went into the Nolan trilogy actually and we depressed the hell out of you, Visa Veed, the Joker Batman, and the Rossout rule Batman. And if I'd planned this out better, I would have done the Nolan trilogy in its own episode so that there'd be an arc. But instead, I've kept people waiting for a whole week. So let's dive into 2012, the Dark Knight Rises. This is the final in the Nolan trilogy.

This is the one where Bane speaks and THX while everyone else speaks in Dolby. Nice. Yeah, this is the one where the mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado overshadowed the gritty and grim nature of this movie. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah, it was, that was this one. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the bad guy in this one. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

The bad guy in this one is smarter and stronger than Bruce Wayne. He breaks Batman literally. And I'm making a distinction there because these are Batman movies, not Bruce Wayne movies. And the previous ones were all Bruce Wayne movies. In response to the 1966 Batman movie, which was a runoff of the 1943 and 1949 Batman movies. So we had the 80s into the 90s where Bruce Wayne movies where Batman was a symptom.

And now Batman is rage personified and Bruce Wayne is just the button that we keep on top of it. I was gonna say the vessel. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and I love the way you phrase it, that the, that the 80s into 90s movies were, um, Batman as a symptom. Yes. I think, I think that's, that's a really, really pithy way of putting that. Yeah. Yeah. Because to one to one extent or another, all of those batmans were addressing a mental illness,

a psychological issue, a pathology of Bruce Wayne, which I think is an important thing to just kind of revivify here because now we're addressing it, it's all Batman and it's Batman as rage, but as you and I both know, rage is a secondary emotion. It covers hurt. You know, it springs from hurt. It springs from betrayal. It springs from betrayal. It springs from fear of loneliness and things like that. And that's what brings about rage.

And I think the Nolan trilogy is absolutely existentialism. Then again, I think everything is existentialism. You view an awful lot of things through an existentialist lens. Despite not being one. Easy for, yeah, despite being largely a stoic. Yeah. You admire the existentialist or existentialism. I do. From a distinct slight, but distinct remove.

I think. Yeah, it's an interesting framing. It's kind of like I really dig on Freud. I don't think he has much validity unless you're talking about like literary composition in terms of psychology, I disagree. So it's kind of like same thing with existentialism. As a philosophy.

I think he has. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you don't, if you're gonna talk about Freud and in the context of talking about bad man, I think, you know, it's appropriate to do a little talking of the existentialism as a philosophy. He is. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, if you're going to talk about Freud, and in the context of talking about bad man, I think, you know, it's appropriate to do a little talking about Freud. You know, most everything he had to say was pretty much on the nose right up until the point where he started seeing in, in his own notes and in his own practice. He came up against the realization of just how many of his parents did not parents. How many of his patients?

How many of his paintings? Wow, that is so desperate. It's like me not getting to teach about the Spanish influenza because the goddamn COVID came. Like it's the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, but he started looking at his notes and over and over and over in his practice. He started realizing how many of his patients were sexually molested. Yeah.

And he couldn't face the truth of that. So he came up with a shit ton of bullshit to try to find some other way to explain it. Yeah, I think there's an awful lot of his basic ideas are valid, but then he ran away from his own data. I think that's where he fucked up. Well, I think that's because he never addressed a shit with his parents, like straight up, the loveless relationship they had with his father, the coddling that he had with his mother, like the complicated relationship that he had with both of them.

And then I think there was a stepmom and just like all, yeah, he was, it's like, you know, when we see really terrible people telling on themselves by accusing other people of doing that, you know, like in the entire last four years in the federal government. But I think here you had a very broken man. And I might have just mixed up his childhood with Nietzsche. But here you had a very, I did you did. You know, but you still had, it still stands. But you had a, go ahead.

He was from a very comfortable upper bourgeois, Austrian family background. So I mean, based on the social a's of the day, he was fucked up by his parents no matter what. So it's still valid to say that he didn't, you know, examine his own, you know, familial relationships because by our modern standards, they've been bizarre. Yeah. And again, he did, I think he was calling out to people what he was dealing with. Yeah, I mean, I think you had a broken person who was very smart, analyzing everyone

else through the lens of what broke him without realizing it. It just happened to be that his analysis was analyzing what other people were broken by. Yeah. So, and then doing a lot of cocaine, but you'll well, yeah, and then you can't, you can't ignore the news candy. So, yeah. All right. So Bane is the bad guy, right?

And he, like I said, he's smarter. He's stronger than Bruce Wayne. He breaks Batman literally. He's Batman's total opposite in a number of ways. He fights in a heavy and brutal way, a fighting style that is result oriented and not stealth based, whereas Batman fights in a very slipping by you

and then knock out blow way, a very stealth based surprise attack kind of way. Yeah. blow away, a very stealth-based surprise attack kind of way. Bane is like a bore rushing at you, and Batman is like a cobra striking you by slipping around you. His mask, here's what I got a kick out of. Bane's mask only covers his mouth. And that's the one part of Batman that's uncovered. Now, I think it's this, this is why.

I think Bane's mask only covers his mouth because he uses the truth to tell lies. Okay, okay. I think Batman's mouth is the only thing that stays uncovered because he lies to tell the truth. Fuck me. Alright. Bane wants to rule. Batman wants to step away.

Bane is largely alone, whereas Batman has an armorer and an advisor. Bain is sexless. Batman is undone by his attraction to various women. Okay. Now, interestingly, this is the... Including the daughter of the demon herself. Uh-huh. Interestingly, this is the first Batman movie that was made since Obama became

president. It's the first Batman movie that was made since the economy fell apart and had to be rebuilt. And it's the first one that's happened since the House flipped again back to Republicans owing to the Tea Party. And if you look at the violence and where it's directed in this movie in many ways, it's absolutely catering to that Tea Party mentality that was steadily growing in 2012. Okay. So, in 2012, Obama is running for a second term and a lot of people were really sour on the government at that time for a number of reasons. Not the least of which was because he was black.

Indeed. But also, there were legitimate grievances, but then branding had become so strong on the right, and I mean the right with a capital R, due to the Koch brothers, that any regulation seemed like a harmful overreach. And since the government had absolutely failed to prosecute anyone for the financial meltdown, a lot of folks were disillusioned as hell with the system and the Tea Party grew and grew thanks to Coke money. So that's the background in which this gets written. In some ways, the movie got called out as a polemic against the Occupy movement, which was taking the Occupy movement

to the extreme under Bain. And you winced at that, and I think I know why. It's because the movie is actually kind of a bad parody of the Occupy movement. You know? All right. Yeah. So here's the deal.

Sure. One of my favorite parts. Yeah. So here's the deal. Sure. One of my favorite parts. Absolutely. Favorite parts of that film is when Dr. Crane reappears. We haven't seen him in, you know, a couple of movies now. But he shows backup as the judge in a people's tribunal that is taken straight out of a British characterization of the French Revolution. Now, Dr. Crane, for the uninitiated is... Now Dr. Crane for the uninitiated is scarecrow, right. And he's the only villain that's appeared

in all three Nolan movies. Oh, yeah, he did appear in the second one, didn't it? Which means that fear is never defeated. It's always there. It's always, yeah, it's always there. And, and him, him like clearly, I mean, he's, he's of course, you know, that shit crazy. Because ever since the end of the first movie, he's been, you know, just, you know, nut bar. Um, you know, overdosed on his own, on his own stuff.

And so he's, he's clearly not thoroughly hinged. And he's, you know, and the set design on this bit was just fucking brilliant. It's this huge room with a big parquet floors, I recall. And he's sitting behind this monolithic desk. And the crowd is shouting. I mean, it's straight out of Rome's parents. It's straight out of the Scarlet Imperial, you know, which is interesting because of course the Scarlet Pipernell is in some ways the ultimate ancestor of Batman as the first, you know, masked hero kind of figure in literature. But anyway, I'm getting off the subject, but he's he's he's like so clearly hamming it up as as he's delivering quote unquote justice to the the you know rich and well fed right got them oh yeah to the to the cheers and and cheers of a howling mob. And you know, the thing is

that isn't just a parody of the Occupy movement. That's a parody of the Tea Party too. party too. Now the political motivation of the tea party was coming from a different direction. It was. But the anti-elitism of the tea party. You mean the populism? Because that's what it was. It was anti-elit wealth because populism is almost always anti-alitist. Yes. Yeah. And that's what was able to be perverted right away by rich people because they're like, oh, we don't want them to be anti-alit against us. So. Yeah.

No, we want to turn around who the elite is that they're right off at. Right. Yeah. And, you know, co-brothers. Astro-turvy. Yeah. Very,. Right. Yeah. And, you know, co-brothers. Astro-Turaf. Yeah. Very, very rapidly.

Yeah. And, you know, what, what I think, whether that was a critique of the, or a parody of the Occupy movement, or some other political movement, I think if you show the same film translated into name language in whatever other country, I think you're gonna find that it is whatever populist movement there is. Yeah. Is what people are going to interpret as being parodied there, being being villainized and turned into a cartoon of itself. I can see that. I would just say that the Occupy movement was never bought up and and perverted by the Koch brothers. The Tea Party movement was. And so the Occupy

movement got to retain its leftist and common-sensical ideology. But it was very quickly lambasted and roasted by the right and by elitists and then by the tea partyers who I was always just and they're going like you guys could okay you're not okay but you know if you bother to actually listen to what they're trying to fucking say you might realize it has not a lot in come who okay that's why they were divided exactly yeah and then again because they were basically our generation's bonus marchers, the people who were in charge absolutely saw the danger of that and divided them very easily.

And then set one against the other, created a propaganda channel and whatnot. But so it does end up being a parody of Occupy. And I do love what you pointed out that it's a tribunal, it's really high up, it's overwrought. It's kind of the only thing that is an echo to the original Batman's from the 80s in that you've got this kind of tortured landscape and they are going after the well-fed rich people, like you said, which absolutely twigs the fear response of people who are like, look at these

occupy people, like look at the worst that could happen, because someday that could be me as a millionaire. And I don't want that to happen to me. Yeah, well, you know, and the thing is, I think, I think, you know, because, you know, now we're living in an era, you know, eight years after that.

Mm-hmm. Where? Jesus. You have people on, on, you know, eight years after that. Where? Jesus. You have people on Facebook and groups that the two of us frequent, who are genuine no shit lefties, with only a little bit of irony, actually posting gifts of the guillotine dropping.

Yeah. And it's like, there's, like, the people who demonized that back in 2012 didn't understand that they were creating the monster they were afraid of. Like, I mean, of course, in any generation, there's always going to be that group of people that are like, no, no, fuck it, fuck it, all burn the system down. You know, it's the only way all the way we're going to get justice is if we destroy what's here, you know, there's always going to be those folks. And, you know, but I think, I think in the zoomer generation, there are right now more of them than there have been in than there were in our cohort or there were even in the millennials.

And I think the reason is because things have gotten so fucked. Yes. That is that that is no longer looking like such an extreme idea. Yeah. Well, I think the creation of the monster that they didn't realize, I think they didn't care because their wealth enabled them to buy up islands and get Lasik surgery. And like that's kind of the flex now for young tech bros is to get lasex surgery and to buy an island somewhere and to stockpile it just in case. So they don't care about the monster getting loose because they've got a

helicopter at the ready and the Koch brothers figured they would be dead before it really got bad and they were half right. So, okay. So, Nolan totally, totally denies that he was trying to parody Occupy. He claims that he's just trying to quote, show the cracks of society, show the conflicts that someone would try to wedge open. And he probably is in this movie just trying to do that, but what is our refrain? In the film? No, yours and mine on the show. You're like, oh, I don't mean shit.

Right. So by 2012, yeah, by 2012, the Tea Party had set itself up as strongly as a foil to the image of Occupy and that they popularized it with billionaire money. So much so that at a gaming convention that I was at, there was an Occupy versus the Army Minis battle, which my friend set out with tremendous detail. The occupy folks were the zombies and the army was the army. Okay, wait back up. Yes, sir.

Back, back, back, the truck up. Uh huh. Uh huh. They said a table saw. Finish game. Mm hmm. Explicitly using. Okay. Yep. Okay. Yep. And it was occupied. I'm with these people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, uh, yep. So, unfortunately, since authorial intent means dick, Bane's speeches have worked their way into some pretty notable places. For instance, Matthew Raza of Salon said, quote, the Christopher Nolan directed film, and more specifically,

its fascistic revolutionary villain, Bain, has been referenced in racist hate speech directed against Black Lives Matter protesters by the popular alt-right site Virginia Dare and throughout the far right corners of the internet. So... Which quotes? You know, it's funny, I don't actually have those quotes.

But likely the part where he's standing on the steps and talking about, you know, the secret masters and blah, blah, blah. I mean, it's, it's really easy for races to adopt the whole Jews, replace, choose will not replace us kind of rhetoric and the whole idea of you know a secret you know elitists and stuff like that it's just ridiculous. So yeah so again it's so funny how an author will very often say oh no I didn't mean to do that and then it always gets adopted by one side only like and very memified. Well, because the thing is once it gets memified,

once you take anything and you turn it into a viral thing, it carries that connotation forward forever. So, think about Pepe the frog. Like there are people now as we speak who are trying to reclaim Pepe because the creator is distraught that a, you know, happy, go lucky, free willing pot smoking frog character he created

has been turned into a symbol of hate. You know, and there are people who are working to try to reclaim it, but like the amount of energy it's gonna take to do that is. That's a good point. You know, and that's why in heathen communities, there is so much vitriol going on between non-racist norseasons and the fascist fucks. Because you're ruining our brand. And there very, very big push that they're getting a lot of pushback.

The fascists are getting a lot of pushback because once you appropriate these symbols, we're not going to be able to use them anymore. Look at Hindus. Look at skinheads. Yeah. Coming out of the rude boy culture. Yeah. Huge. You know, sharps. And the thing is, once something gets attached to those kinds of things, it's like, I'm one of the people who just says, I'm sorry to say it, but if you're operating a Buddhist

temple anywhere outside of Asia, You know, I don't want to see a swastikon you're building because if you're operating that temple in the United States You know what that means to people here. Yeah, we decorate that simple. Yeah, you know, read you know find find other symbolism because you know Lord knows Buddhism has plenty of it you know and the same thing to to Hindus. And you know, and you know, and then if I get pushed back from any of them, but I'll be very pointed about the relationship between Indians and the Third Reich, which there's a whole story there, but I'm getting off the subject. And the, and the thing is, you know, once, once one side claims something, it's really hard for the other side to get an interaction with it.

Yeah. Like, like the only, the only choice you have at that point is to add another panel to the meme cartoon and respond. That's a really good way to put it. And, and yes, I think that I also would say that the right is always so much better at branding than the left because there's an ideological purity that comes from the right because it's reactionary

at the edges. And the edges are what are yanking things. Whereas on the left, it's radicalizing and that that is very hard to brand because you radicalize from so many different corners that you end up with coalitions always on the left. Well, yeah, you wind up, you wind up with a coalition and I'm trying to, I'm trying to remember the quote, but you know, it's, it's, it's in, in a more milk toast version, it's, it's the criticism that's always been level against, in modern times, anyway, it's always been level against the Democratic party.

Is that, you know, it isn't one party. Right. It's five different political parties in a trench coat, you know, trying to try to act like one, you know, where everybody on the other side of the spectrum, you know, is capable of, you know, they all have points that they have obviously clearly immediately in common, whereas on the left, like my perception growing up as a Republican kid was, and then turning into a Republican voter at the beginning of my political awakening, was on the left or what counts as the left in the United States. In the Democratic Party, it was a whole bunch of one issue kind of people who all had,

who, and this is the important part, who all had their pet issue and wanted to push their pet issue, you know, in front of every other issue, whereas on the Republican side and as a 21-year-old, I wouldn't have spotted this. But now I can look at it and say, well, you know, on the right, of course, in the Republican party, there's plenty of one issue fucking voters. But they all have the recognition that, no, no, I'm a one issue voter, but I'm on the same side as that one issue voter. Right. He's a gun guy, I'm an abortion guy, right? I'm an abortion guy. And like, we agree. Right. Yeah. And so we're we're, this is our team. You know, again, brandy. Again, branding.

Yeah, yeah. And on the other side, I think because classical liberalism falls to the left of center now in our discourse, the idea of forming a coalition is by itself seen as like leftist soy boy kind of idea. And so everybody has their own issue, their own thing. So anyway, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I somewhere I lost the thread. Anyway, carrying on. So, yeah, a Bane speech gets adopted by right wingers who are bullying and attacking and threatening Black Lives Matter people who are saying, hey, we should get to exist too. Anyway, this is a man, Bane, who takes center stage as Batman is trying to retreat. And in every scene, Batman absolutely gives

ground to Bane visually. He's old news. Bane is newer, nastier, and more ruthless. So what's going on here is is not a good, good development. In general, the world is getting more brutal. You remember there was that all that talk about not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need. That's fucking gone. It has nothing to do with it. Now it's might makes right. Anyway, so another major theme here is masks. I already talked about how Bain and, you know, they're literally the negative of each other. But every main character in this wears a mask. Batman, Bain, and Catwoman.

Bain wears one to sustain himself. Catwoman wears a mask to enable her to perform the crime she uses to sustain herself. And Batman wears a mask to sustain his identity. Every single one of them is covering something, and every single one of them has an existential connection to their masks. Now, Nolan said that the Dark Knight Rises was about pain, and it is. But more so, it's about the pain of abandonment. Speaking of existentialism. And an orphan, literally someone who is abandoned by his parents, either by choice or by death,

convinces Bruce Wayne to take on the mantle again. Alfred then quits, resigning in protest, hoping that Bruce Wayne will feel abandoned enough to not become Batman. But Bruce goes ahead anyway, trusting Catwoman to bring him to Bane. To me, that was the moment where I was just like, oh my god, this is a tragedy. It was when Alfred was like, I can't, I have to quit. I can't support you in this. And here's where the abandonment is most keenly felt. It's one of the best scenes I've ever seen in a movie.

It's amazingly well done. Catwoman takes Batman through the sewers, so journey into the underworld, being led by civil. Okay. And she locks a door behind him. And now he's trapped on a catwalk, funny. And at this moment, the musical score completely stops. And then the fight commences.

And Batman is outclassed in every way by Bane. The only soundtrack that we have to this is the sounds of the blows hitting Batman. Batman has been abandoned by Alfred. He's been betrayed by catwoman, and he's being destroyed by Bane. And even the scour has abandoned him. He has to go through all of this alone, which ends up leaving him a literally broken shell of himself, a physical manifestation of who he already is mentally. Wow. Yeah.

And all of this leads to his isolation away from his beloved. A fact I still can't figure out why. Gotham. He eventually heals. And he finds a way out through sheer force of will. So back to the Nietzsche stuff. And eventually, he gets back to Gotham

just in time to save it from a nuclear bomb, total obliteration. But by this point Bruce Wayne and Batman are completely on autopilot. There's no more conflict. There's simply the March torto obliteration, whether it's a physical one or a metaphorical one. So, in this trilogy, the Batman has gone through a whole arc. It's an existential arc, but it is an arc. He goes from anger, rage, and importantly, despair turned inward. And he focuses them outward, and then he fights against the forces of chaos, both within and without.

Batman struggles with his identity, anguishing against the choices that he'll have to make in order to declare his most authentic self. And then he hits rock bottom. He is abandoned by all he loves. He's broken by all of it. And when he returns, it's to commit suicide. So I'm going to say those things again, and you'll hear the movies add in that order, right? So he goes from anger rage and importantly despair turned inward. He then focuses them outward. Isn't that all of Rasa

Ghoul's training? He then fights the forces of chaos both within and without. Okay, isn't that Joker? Okay. You're right. He struggles with his identity and he's anguishing against the choices he'll have to make in order to declare his most authentic self. Isn't that two-face? And then he hits rock bottom.

Rachel does. Yep. And then he hits rock bottom and he's abandoned by all he loves, and he's broken by all of it. That's exactly what we see in this third movie. And when he returns, it's to commit suicide. It's almost as though he has seen the absurdity in who he is.

And now we have Kamu saying, here's why you commit suicide. Although Kamu said you don't, but yeah, this is, yeah, yeah. This is the answer to that question. This is the urge to. Yes. Now, if that arc isn't a perfect summation of our democracy and our willingness to engage in it from 25 or 2005 to 2012, I don't know what is.

America went from an unending war under Bush to an unending war under Obama. And while that's awful, what really chapped a lot of people's hide was the skin color of the president and the willingness to let mass shootings go unabated. Clearly, a gritty Batman, one who suffered similar struggles with identity and made the same impossible choices that Americans thought they were making at the time, is the only way to go. Okay. So Christian Bale's Batman was a deeply conflicted, originally vengeance driven, but ultimately

self-annialating Batman, which is precisely what was happening politically and culturally at the time for a large segment of American males. Well, the self-annialation part I hadn't caught really. Yep. Maybe that's, I don't know, but yeah, that, yeah, wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

So that takes us to 2016. Yeah. Batman versus Superman. Oh, Jesus. The Ben Affleck one. The one where both of their moms are named Martha. And which you know is interesting because that is actually canon and I hadn't ever realized that until until the end exploded with jokes about oh well, you know, oh my god our mothers have the same name. Yeah. Oh, well, you know, oh my God, our mothers have the same name. Yeah.

We're bros now. Yeah. You know, and yeah, and, and, and, oh, yeah. So going well, and just, just, you know, that, that very thing kind of highlights the difference between growing up with love and growing up with stuff. They had the same mother, but it doesn't mean they had the same mom. No, no. So although I will say, you know, economically in the comics, yeah, in the new 52,

we, we, we actually get to see something of Martha Wayne in flashbacks and, you know, had she not been murdered in an alley, she was, you know, I mean, canonically, she did, she did a pretty good job being a, you know, loving parent. Well, yeah, I'm sure that, you know, Thomas loved him too, but it doesn't help pay the rent when you're dead. Well, actually does, because he left a trust fund. But yeah. Yeah. So this is also the one where he uses a voice modulator, which is the natural progression from what we've seen

with I'm gonna deepen my voice to, I've got throat cancer to, I have all these fucking gadgets. Why don't I just change my voice? Yeah, I sound like Godfather actual from Generation Kill. Yeah. You know. Yeah, I sound like Godfather actual from Generation Kill. So this one is the second movie in the DCEU where they've seen Marvel succeed over the years

and they try to fast track their success to match it right away instead of build. Well, okay, so there's several things wrong with the way the DCEU tried to do things or DCCU has tried to do things. One of them is they tried to hurry everything, which is not right. What I'm going to say is my own opinion on this is what they've done wrong or what they started out doing wrong was when you have characters like DC's characters, you really have to be very careful about the tone of what it is that you're doing. And you need to understand where the basic appeal of these characters comes from. And like, I mean, to go to the MCU, Ironman

got made. And they figured out, or I don't know if they figured out or if they just said you know okay look we're gonna make an Iron Man movie and they looked at Iron Man and they said you know what what makes this dude Tony Stark this dude Tony Stark and I mean it would be very difficult for for any any director or producer to get as lucky as they got capturing the lightning in the bottle that is You know actually finding Tony Stark to play the role. Yes You know Robert Downey Jr One of my favorite ever descriptions of of you know Robert Downey Jr. It at Comic Con

It was an I-09 video. They had video of him at Con, I don't remember what year. It was before Iron Man three, I think. And it was here's Tony Stark doing his best Robert Downey Jr. in personation. Nice. Yeah. And like, I mean, you know, it was perfect

lightning and bottle kind of casting. But the way they wrote the script, it was really clear that like, no, we're gonna do an Iron Man movie. And if this works, we're gonna build out from it, but like, that's it. Yeah. And what they tried to do with, with the DC cinematic universe was, okay, we're gonna start with Superman. And, you know, this is gonna know, this is gonna be the cornerstone of us duplicating what the MCU did. Right. And then they fucked up Superman. Like for an awful lot of fans, they just completely fucked up the core of the character. Well, I also don't think

that Superman can come out as your first character. Yes, you know, you've got to start some place else. Yeah, you need to start with not the Boy Scout. But now oddly enough, this movie premiered in Mexico City before it came to the U.S. the next week. That was just one of those little, yeah, it's a little tidbit. I was like, that's worthy of note. Now, like with seemingly every other Batman, this one was beset by questions as to if the actor who was tapped was good for the role.

Plenty of people rejected it out of hand preemptively because they didn't like the idea of who's going to play Batman. Now, this particular one starts much later in Batman's career. I mean, it still references his parents getting killed because if there's one thing people really like about Batman, it's the death of his parents evidently. I would say RIP Martha

and Thomas, but they clearly cannot rest in peace because it's every movie. They came up every iteration. That's actually one of the things I'm kind of stoked about about the upcoming Batman film is by all accounts where we're not going to have to see his origin in this one. But then how will we know how he got started? Uh, they're going to give us credit for understanding that because it's fucking Batman. Yeah, there's a reason we're on episode J of this Batman scene. Yeah. So anyway, Ben Affleck is now Bruce Wayne, who has been Batman in Gotham for about 20 years now. So we're starting to see some of the comic stuff going on,

right? And this opens the door to all kinds of interesting possibilities, not the least of which is how is his body holding up? But now the worlds in the DCEU are colliding and Superman, the man of steel, came out about three years prior and the battle between Zod and Superman has left a bad taste in people's mouths about Superman.

Because of all the destruction that 9-11 created, the very rich guy who doesn't respect the rule of law is down on immigrants who looks like, oh sorry, but yeah, yeah. So because of the fight between Superman and Zod Bruce Wayne, who is Batman, sees Superman as a genuine and existential threat to Gotham and the rest of humanity. So it's not illogical, but and it is something that gets brought up in the comics later on, but I do find it interesting that we have a post 9-11 Batman look. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah.

Yeah, how could we not? Yeah. You know, I think there was someplace I was going to go with this, but I think the idea that especially, I mean, the way they chose to do Superman, I know I'm going to keep harping on this as long as we're talking about the DCE film, because of the way they chose to introduce Superman, I don't think any of the paranoia that we see Bruce Wayne having to ward Cal L is unfounded or inappropriate. is unfounded or inappropriate. Okay.

Because in the course of a glorified fist fight, he leveled significant portions of Metropolis. And let's talk about how many thousands of people were killed by falling masonry, shattered glass, flipped cars, explosions, all of the shit that happened right in that fight scene you know I think the thing is unless you're just gonna you know dig up hand-waviam somehow and be like well you know somehow nobody was killed you know there there is no way that making that script choice and that directorial choice doesn't wind up having a negative knock on

effect on everything you do after that. And the problem is that that does wind up then kind of pushing Batman as a direction of being a dick. Because he's Batman and what's one of Batman's superpowers being rich will want, but being prepared for every eventuality and being, you know, having a plan for every case. And in this case, you've just introduced an immigrant who looks white, but isn't. And is a human neutron bomb. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You're entirely right, and I'm not trying to take anything away from that argument, but

I'm also saying. Yeah, this is how you can push that agenda, because this is one of those very real things that's true about Superman. Like you said, is that he is a weapon of mass destruction. Yes. Yeah. And at the same time, this is so, so totally post 9-11. Oh yeah, well yeah, no, totally is.

And the thing is this, I think, to me, this comes back to, again, how fucking irresponsible Zack Snyder's man of steel fucking was. Because the thing is you completely turn Superman from, you know, your brother is a huge Superman fan like like I've gotten into passionate debates with him about Superman versus Cap. And of course, we both know I'm a Cap guy, you and I are both. Oh, yeah, I'm a total Cap guy. But, but, you know, your, your brother's take on it, I think is, is really, is, is really powerful, which is he has, he, he isn't human, but he chooses to be. He's a God who wants to be one of us. Yes. And he's a God who strives. This, this really critical

one who strives to be. Yes. One of us. And when you take the part about striving to be one of us out of the character, when you turn that inward and turn that into this emo, well, you know, I have all this power and I can't show it because, you know, you know, I've got to keep my secrets and I can't Because my dad is Kevin Costner and tells me not to yeah, yeah, you know, when you when you make that choice to to go And the cheap shot here would be to say Emo with that, but I don't want to take the cheap shot You know when you when you choose to turn that in okay you know, well, let me, let me reframe that. When you internalize people's inherent distrust of you because of your difference from them, it can radicalize you to not caring about the people

who only see you as a threat. Okay. All right. And then, You're not out. Yeah. And then you've got a millionaire who, you know, in on and on and on and on and on, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So meanwhile, you've got Clark Kent, who is Superman, but in reporter form, he wants to expose Batman. Because Batman is a goddamn vigilante who people seem okay with for some reason. Okay. So eventually Lex Luthor does the baronzimo thing and also Wonder Woman gets involved eventually

and Batman wants to use Kryptonite to defeat Superman if he needs to and he builds an Ironman suit and he gets ready to fight the Man of Steel who's also in exile. Batman gets super overzealous about it. He doesn't care who he's working for so long as he can kill Superman. And he's ready to work right alongside fellow industrialist Lex Luthur to kill Superman.

So now you have 2 millionaires, gunning for an immigrant. Luckily. Shit, this was made in 2016, man. Like, what do you want? You know, I know, yeah. And an immigrant whose status is now questionable. Is he really even one of us? Doesn't that sound a little berthery? Oh, a little. Yeah.

So luckily, Superman in the middle of their fight, Doesn't that sound a little berthery? Oh, a little? Yeah. So luckily Superman, in the middle of their fight, mentions his mom's name, which is the same name as Batman's mom, but she's already dead, whereas Superman's mom is still alive, and then they bond over having moms with the same name. And Batman realized that he's gotten really obsessed with his hatred of Arabs after 9-11,

and sorry. He realized he's gotten really obsessed with the threat that Superman represents post-God battle and forgot that there's another way to keep the world safe besides siding with fucking evil. Okay. Lex Luthor, what's that? Having, having, having not seen the film. Uh-huh. Having, having just like totally not seen the film. Uh huh. I've, I've, I've just like totally not seen the film. Uh, but you know, red, red synopsis and seen bits and pieces. Does, does, the Clark, not Clark does Bruce,

no, throughout the film that knows a matter of fact, like Luther is fucking evil. Like, I mean, is, is, well, you know, he's, he's evil, but I'm working with him because I'm achieving a greater good or He sees him similar to how and and y'all feel free to at me. This is fine But he sees him in the same way that Tony Stark sees Obadiostate Like pre pre OB coming up with the Iron Man killer suit like this is a guy or or the way he sees Justin Hammer in the second movie. This is a guy who is a competitor who is less than ethical, but I've dealt with worse. Okay, because because obi is staying is almost a surrogate father figure. Yeah,

you're absolutely. Yeah, that's why I had to amend that. Yeah, that's different. Okay, so is different. Okay, so it's hammer, hammer, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, got it. Lex Luthor sees that his plan's not going to work after all because Martha and he begins plan B. So he starts plan B, which is a super monster version of Zod plus Luther that can't possibly be beaten by Superman and Batman, until of course Wonder Woman shows up and then the three of them team up to defeat this monster. All is well accepted, Superman dies in the battle at the last minute and this gives Batman the guilt that he needs to go on being Batman, but this time with a team of superhuman types. Okay.

Yeah. So, as the guy who, you know, started this whole bruja with the comic history, I just want to point out that it's okay. We're looking at one movie that managed to encapsulate the ending of the Dark Knight Returns. Yep. And the Doomsday arc from the Superman comics. And they decided somehow that narratively, we're going to throw both of those fuckers at the wall at the same time.

Yes. Just from a plot standpoint, that's fucking stupid. Yeah. Like there's too much going on there. Well, you got to catch up tomorrow. And you know, okay. Now, now here's, and the other thing I want to say is you know you mentioned you know Superman of course, you know kind of introduced DCU by Snyder in the way that I'm never gonna stop harping on cuz fuck you and and then you know Batfleck who the bits I've seen I think

his fine portrayal is perfectly adequate like I'm not gonna say, like I like bail better, but I'm not gonna say he sucked. You know, right. And so you have that version of Batman, you have that version of Superman, and then you throw a Wonder Woman into the mix and she's the only one I'm fucking rooting for. Yeah.

Like, like at all. Like, yeah, because she's the only one who actually has, like, she's the Girl Scout. Yeah. And, you know, yeah. So anyway, yeah. So what's- I just- I just-

I just- I had to point that out. Yeah. So what's noteworthy about this particular depiction of Batman is the age and the mileage. He, as Affleck put it, is, quote, a little older, he's a little more world weary. He's been around the block once or twice, so he's a little wiser, but he's definitely more cynical

and a little darker and more jaded. You can say a lot with understatements. The violence has deadened him a bit and it's stolen his ideology. Zach Snyder, the director, praised Aflek as a choice because, quote, Ben provides an interesting counterbalance to Henry Superman. He has the acting chops to create a layered portrayal of a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent, and bears the scars of a seasoned crime fighter, but retain the charm of the world's season billionaire Bruce Wayne.

Okay. So why do an older Batman? Because we've seen a lot of Batman. It's old news to us at this point. And reimagining is not going to do anything to bring folks and keep them interested anymore. You are aiming at the people who went and saw all the other Batman movies. We've seen a new Batman every couple of Batman movies or so, so if you're going to keep doing these movies, time has to pass.

And also in 2016, everyone had been through the last nine years or so of economic awfulness, as well as 15 years of an unending war. We as a culture had aged in a very unfortunate way. There was no more idealism, not with the unending war, the economic crash, the rise of hate groups, the rise of mass shootings, and the rise of hyper partisanship, and people were tired, so Bruce Wayne was also tired. We were dead into the violence. We were a little darker. We were a little more cynical. To understate things. Yes. Just like you said. Just like in 89, we suffered from depression. And in 92, we suffered from wanting to take off our masks and false memories in 95. And in 97, in 95 and in 97 wanting nipples.

Like we just constantly are reflected in Batman. Nice, nice way to. Thank you. Nice way to slip that one in there. There is, there is no, literally no substance to that Batman, poor George Clooney. Yeah, you know, and I really like George Clooney. Yeah. Like he was under use for that.

He's a very charismatic actor. Mm-hmm. Like the, you know, Ocean's Eleven, his version of Ocean's Eleven is one of those few remakes of the film that's actually way better than the original. Mm-hmm. Oh, and she's like, watch him in Michael Clayton. There is like a contained rage in that one. Watch him in Obrother Where I thought there's a buffoonery in that like he is a good actor. He's he's got chops

And he also did Batman so yeah, I don't know So this is actually the first time Batman really acknowledged the 9-11 font phenomenon that Marvel has brought into every single one of its movies And this is my big criticism of Marvel movies. Like, I love them. They're fun. They're schlocky. They're great. And they tickle me in all the right places. But every single one of them has a 9-11 moment. Uh, I wish I could more or take you a little argue with you about that, but I kind of can't yeah

The only one I can think of that doesn't is the one that doesn't happen in America Black Panther Because you don't have giant buildings falling down. You don't have cityscapes getting destroyed It's somewhat localized to you know little little battles here and there a lot of machinery gets fucked up But you don't. Captain Marvel? Captain Marvel, you have, well, doesn't she have dreams and stuff

about a planet blowing up or whatnot? Maybe. Yeah, I'll have to rewatch that. I don't know. Add us. Okay, yeah. So this is also, like I said, the time where a city getting destroyed matters.

Metropolis getting destroyed mattered. It was a plot point. People were displaced. Superman couldn't just set it all back to normal. I mean, what's he going to do? Fly around the world until it turns backwards in rewind time. That would be stupid. Um, so I'm just Margot Kitting.

I'm so gladgot Kitting. Bruce Wayne billionaire who owned buildings in Metropolis quote, new people who died in that black zero event. Zack Snyder wanted real consequences in the fake cities because we've been dealing with the very real consequences for more than a decade and a half by that point. This Batman has been Batman-ing in a world of increased fear. Fear is not the enemy, however. This Bruce Wayne has been billionaireing in a world of increased fear, but fear is no longer the enemy. Superman is the avatar of that fear and Superman becomes that enemy. This movie does what Civil War teased us with. I think this movie's Civil War to better than Civil War did.

Cinematically or you mean in the comic? In terms of the true division where you actually have a dilemma because both arguments are actually good arguments. I cannot deny the suit the destructive power of Superman. I cannot deny that people will have me over a barrel on that one six ways from Sunday. Just like I will have them over the barrel over the fact that like, oh, okay, you just want a fascist government who hates immigrants. Like, we are both right and there's no need

to yield ground for either of us when it comes to that. Just like in the Civil War comic. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a much more dilemma-y kind of thing. Yeah. No, it's okay. You know, but in the movie, it really wasn't. It just was, the stakes weren't deep in the movie. No, the movie the movie failed. Yeah. I got to say of all of the MCU films for me, the biggest disappointment was Civil War. I think if you called it something different, from a narrative arc standpoint. It was Civil War. If they had not tried to evoke the comic mini series with the title, if they just said, okay, it's going to be an adventure move. We're going to touch on some of those same themes, but we're not going to call it that. Right. I would not have left the theater being like, okay, that was a really great action film,

but that was not Civil War. I agree completely. There was a lot of what was advertised on the tin. I had a lot of fun. There were moments in that film that were amazing and awesome and it brought up some really valid questions, but it was not civil war. You know I agree completely and I think that it was actually a really good movie and it ought to have been titled something different because I think it brought in all kinds of really cool stuff and just the idea that the villain was a basic human.

Oh yeah. And so many, like all of that was fantastic. Um, and I want to see more of that Baron Zemo because he's the more he already of the MCU. He really is, you know, and I also really liked just the the arc that T'Challa had. I love the fact that Tony Stark was like he he's suffering mass like the whole arc of Tony Stark is arc, arc reactor, but like he's absolutely suffering from PTSD and guilt over his own hand in things and then he sees someone else having, you know, and just the moral struggle that Steve Rogers has,

like all of it is and never mind Natasha's trying to walk the line, like it's all of it is really good. But's trying to walk the line. Like it's all of it is really good. But yeah, and that's a different, that's a different episode. Interaction between Vision Scarlet Witch. Yes, and just the fact that, you know, Cap called out the fact that this is internment camps. Yeah.

Like I was like, oh cool, like, but it was not the Civil War. It was not the Civil War event that we saw it couldn't have been But anyway Bruce Wayne He is a billionaire. He is hawkish as fuck when it comes to Superman He sees only black and white and wants to preemptively end the threat of Superman before it becomes a real threat He's gonna fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. He is Bush doctrine given life He's gonna fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. He is Bush doctrine given life

Superman by the way, oh that hurts. It's yeah Superman by the way, especially since he's a reporter in his alter ego is very much liberal idealism Lex Luthor is fucking Haliburton and Dick Cheney. That's an insult to Lex Luthor. He is not Dick Cheney. Well, he was never a vampire. Okay, fair. But he does see opportunity in other people's fear, and he doesn't care about the destruction his efforts will cause, largely because he'll profit from that too.

But back to Bruce Wayne, he's American fear personified. See, fear's not the enemy, fear becomes us. Far more than Christian Bale's first installment, far more than Val Kilmer's version, Ben Affleck is the reflexive strikeout of fear security over liberty, brittle, siddical Batman that we see in the Dark Knight Returns comic. He's perfectly fine with the police state because that'll at least keep us safe. And he's as traumatized by Metropolis falling as was Tony Stark by Psychovia. He doesn't care about justice, he cares about security,

and fuck any kind of humanity, unless he finds out that your mom had the same last name as him. Then he can come right back to reasons that he started Batmanting to begin with. But until then, he's this century's right, and he doesn't care to understand what he deems the enemy because he's afraid of it. Alright, so in 2016, that makes perfect sense. Empathy was all but gone by March of 2016, and fear was in full fucking swing. Star Wars

had a similar version of Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne, Kylo Ren. Angry and petulant, ruled by his fear and willing to sacrifice his humanity for the attainment of power over his fear. And you know what's what's interesting is the way that you frame that makes it really clear. One of the series turned that guy into the hero. The other one very clearly turned that guy into, I mean, the villain. And not merely the villain, but there's something about Kyla Ren that I think is important is part of the reason there was so much fan hate from certain quarters was he's a pathetic figure.

Yes. He is still an angry little kid. Yeah. Like he's incredibly powerful. He's terrifyingly powerful. And he has, you know, he, but, but he doesn't, he doesn't recognize his own power in a way that makes him feel secure. He doesn't empower himself.

Yeah, oh, there you go. Yeah. And so all of his behavior is the tantrum throwing of a little scared, angry little kid. Yeah, he told himself that first lie that made sense and got him through the trauma and he's never gone back. Yeah, yeah So yeah, and

I don't know there's there's something there in that one of these one of these films turned That fear into the hero and the other one highlighted its pathos. And both of these films got an awful lot of fan hate. But one of them had a lot of fan hate directed at the character. And the other one didn't, because there were so many guys our age who were just so up in arms about Kyla Ren sucking and why is Kyla Ren such a disappointment? He should be a badass and all this.

Which was really code four, I don't like that a woman is the hero. Yeah, well number one, it was, I don't like that the woman is the hero. I don't like that, you know, the, the, the, uh, deuteragonist is African. I don't like that the Triteragonist is an Asian woman. Like, I mean, there's, there's like, there's so many layers to that, but, but there's also simply the fact that the childhood power fantasy of Darth Vader being this terrifying monolith had suddenly been taken away. And it's like, well, I can't identify with that guy,

I have to admit that I'm kind of a petulant baby. Mm-hmm. Whereas the other series is like, no, no, it is totally valid for you to be terrified like this because this is scary and like we all need to be afraid and like it's totally valid. It just kind of makes me not like Zack Snyder even more. I already don't like him. Yeah, it's like he's a director of toxic masculinity. Oh, someone. Yeah, really is. But's a director of toxic masculinity

So here's a funny thing fun thing that I found for you about this particular iteration of Batman in December 2030 2013 good lord Chris terio was hired to rewrite the script for this movie Terrio said that the movie would draw inspiration from Nolan's Batman trilogy. Also, Italian semiotic in Umberto Echoes, 1972 essay, The Myth of Superman, and the WH Auden poem, Muse de Beau Arts, it's French, the B-E-A-U-X arts. The Bo Arts, its French, the BEA UX Arts. There you go.

As well as an English speaker probably can. Which contrasts the mundane and daily details of normal people's lives with the epic struggles of mythological figures. According to Terrio, quote, in superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, God of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, God of the sky. That began to really be interesting to me, that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence. And Ed is doing the victory dance.

Cold. Yep. So, this was written with that in mind Yeah, okay, yeah, and that's why the colors are so washed out because this is what happens when the underworld fights the sky Fuck me. Yeah, all right cool So also in the underworld there's a fuck ton of rules and everybody has an orderly way to be whereas under the sky a lot of people are talking about what's going on. And I'm just going to say, I'm going to say,

I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say,

I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I. Well, no, I'm just like, that's, that's a really interesting. Because, okay, Apollonian, yes, but that's only when contrasted against Dionysian, not when contrasted against plutonian. Plutonian, yeah, okay. So, yeah. Oh, all right. Crypt, place where you keep dead people. Yeah.

Yeah, okay. So, and the final fact on this one, I found interesting, and I know you like this. This is the first movie that lists Bill Finger as first as the creator, not to the cane. Yeah, yeah. Again, and now I'm forgetting the title of the film, but really great documentary about,

Hellbill Finger got fucked over. And his only surviving descendant is a great niece. And in the documentary, one of the things that comes out is she had to essentially agree to look, I mean, she had to repeatedly tell DC, I'm not looking for any money. I don't want, I, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong if you want to throw me any bucks, I'll take them. But like, I just want to see that he gets credit for what he created. And so the solution, yeah, no, the solution that they wound up finding, coming up with was,

okay, well, we'll start giving him credit as co-creator. And one can only hope that his shade is less restless now, because, you know, but yeah, no, I do, I do remember in the documentary, that's actually a moment that kind of kind of pulls a tear from one. Sure. Because it's a victory after a very long, thankless kind of battle. victory after a very long, thankless kind of battle. Yeah. So now it's the 2017 Batman called Justice League. This is the second Ben Affleck one. This is the one where they tried to avenge her. The DCEU, the one where Batman realizes he needs other people to help him to be a superhero. So in this one, Batman and Wonder Woman form a superhero

team to beat Steppenwolf, who is on a magic carpet ride. I don't get it. Yeah. Likes to dream in between sound machines. Yeah, exactly. You know, who thousands of years earlier had been beaten by Atlantis, Olympus, and the Amazon's. So now he's back. And man, wouldn't it be awesome to have Superman, but too bad, so it's time for the Super team. Now this movie gets really deep into cosmology that I know very little about, but basically there's these mother boxes which are super powerful to us, and the new gods use them

like I would use my iPhone, but they're hidden throughout our world and step in wolf wakes up and starts hunting for them. It's kind of like that five episode special on the weather dominator for GI Joe. Kind of yeah. Yeah. That's actually a really good analogy. Like, I wish it wasn't so good at analogy. But, I mean, based on

I understand the plot of the film, yeah, there's a lot, part of what you have to understand is that step in wolf and the new gods are all the creations of Jack Kirby. Right. Uh, in, in his, in, in the, in the most, so what'm looking for, in the most Kirby of his Kirby. I was going to say the most Jack Kirby-esque way of being Jack Kirby. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all immensely high concept. And I mean, you know, if you really want a head trip and you really want to read a comic book that'll make you wonder

Are we sure he didn't do drugs? Right any if any of the new God stuff is It's a trick for you because it's it's remarkable. Yeah, and Yeah, and and so this is this is one of those points where he you know, of course he moved from Marvel to DC Mm-hmm one of those points where he, you know, of course he moved from Marvel to DC. And, you know, in Marvel he was responsible for, you know, one set of villains who were these, you know, alien space god kind of figures, and then he moved over to DC, and he came up with dark side and step and wolf and new gods who were, you know, space gods. Yeah, but DC. Yeah, because you know, we had to pay the bills. And, you know, and, yeah, and, and, and, and harder core comic book nerds than, than me, will, will be able

to debate whether the Marvel mythos or the DC mythos is, is better in terms of the ideas he came up with. Right. So it's like take the Ask Guardians and inject 60s kind of hippy to zoom, zoom swishbang, kind of ideas, and you get the DC New Gods. Yeah, it's 70s space exploration inspiring comic books mixed with psychedelic fashion iconography. I mean, that's yeah. Yeah. There you go. So Stepan Wolf is going all over the place to grab the mother boxes, which is kind of funny to say. Um, too, you know, it was written in a more injured and in a more innocent time. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, but, uh, and, and that's to make darkseed happy with him and he'll make our planet like step and wulfs again. And that just sucks for us because it's bad for us. So we need heroes. Then you have your standard act one and act two problems getting people on board. Aquaman doesn't want to join and either just cyborg. Flash is a fanboy, so he's in,

and they're not nearly strong enough. But then cyborg joins because his dad immediately threaten, gets threatened by Steppenwolf, and basically the same thing happens for Aquaman and Steppenwolf has two out of three mother boxes and Bruce Wayne figures it'd be a good idea to use the third one to reincarnate Superman. So Superman comes back and they all fight by accident

and then Batman manipulates an amnesiac Superman into going to Kansas with Lois Lane for a while until it'll be dramatically appropriate. During all of that, the third mother box is forgotten and step-in wolf pulls up quick to retrieve it. Faster than Sir Mixellot promises to do with a girl with a big butt. Yeah, I yeah, saw that one on its way. Yeah, anyway. So they go to Russia, they fight the feudal fight and then Superman shows up and saves the day

Ultimately and afterward everyone goes back to their day jobs But also everyone agrees that this team is a good idea and they decide to be a part of it as needed. Now this Batman is not much different from the prior Batman. He's let go of his hatred of foreigners, however. He has redeemed himself from his need for vengeance and in many ways he's an echo of the Christian bailbatman that we see at the beginning of the Dark Knight Rises. He's found a measure of peace and a way of living his life that seems to have a lot of balance to it. But then the movie happens, and in this one he feels very much like the Danny Glover cop who's getting too old for this shit, but is still stuck in it.

He's still tired, but now he's inspired again too. But yeah, he's older grumpier and willing to ask for help when he needs it as he ages. I'd like to think, yeah, I'd like to think that this Batman is a more optimistic look at Batman. He's aged and wise and as Batman. He's a Batman who knows that he can't do this forever and whose concern extends far beyond his own goth-em. He is fading into the background, serving more as an advisory leader and letting the others do the work. He's trusting people more.

He's accepting his role as not being the most crucial thing. He's a damned adult for once and not finding his own failings, but actually fighting for something. He's effective and thoughtful and he shares. We'll see what he does in the next film when he's taken over by, oh God, what's his name? Edward Cullen. Thank you, Edward Cullen. But I do think it's interesting that this particular Batman is not that different than a lot of liberal boomers and liberal exers who are starting to realize that the millennials and the zoomers are needing to step in and take up the mantle,

and they're willing to pass the torch. And I think that's interesting in a movie that was made in 2017. Yeah. After the circus peanut fascist got elected president and a lot of boomers and millennials. I haven't heard the circus peanut comparison in a very long time. Yeah.

But I do think that like a lot of liberal boomers and millennials would see this Batman and be like, yeah, all right. Like they would vibe with that because we do need to start fading. We accept our spot in history, you know, and we start fading. You're saying it's like I'm going to go, I think you mean exers, right? know, we start fading. Second ago, I think you mean axers, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exers, I apologize. Um, but we knew we need to step step back and let younger folk step in because they actually know what they're up against and it is their world. And we can be advisors, but only when they need us. I like that comparison.

I think it's Robert Pattinson. That's what it's called. Actress name Edward Cullinant is of course the sparkly vampire that he portrayed at Keppel's name to international fame slash infamy depending on your opinion of that series. Naturally. By the way, that's a whole episode or two that we could probably do something about. Oh hell yeah. But everything that I've seen about the newest movie I think is where we're not we're not going to see an extension of the Batfleck arc, which now that you say all of

that on a little disappointed. Because that's genuine character arc, which kind of even ends on a little bit of a hopeful note in a way. Yes, yes. You know, and like, when's the last time Batman was hopeful? Ever. Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah.

You know, I think I think it's it's one of the... Oh, hang on one second. Yeah. So Ed, what have you gleaned? Go. Okay. You keep going with exactly what you're going to say, but like...

Yeah. I think it's interesting that we keep seeing this character recreated. Yep. To match the social mores of the time. To match the social mores of the time. And, you know, I mean, obviously we do keep seeing him recreated to match this because that's what we do with characters like this. You know, look at Sherlock Holmes,

you know, to talk about another figure that Robert Downing Jr. is involved in, after mentioning Iron Man earlier. But we keep seeing this character reborn reinterpreted and on the one hand, that's really powerful. And that's part of like what we do as this beast sees, is we tell myths and then we re-tell them and we re-imagine them. On the other hand, it's kind of disappointing that we don't ever let him get old. I mean, or we do get old and like him getting old is this point of, you know, real, real contention and like it's a major part of the story if he's gotten

old. It's like, can he still be Batman? It's like, you know, having a story arc over, you know, a long period of time and actually, you know, seeing, I kind of, you know, after we've, after we've been through all of this, I almost wish that's a good way to put it to what they wound up doing in in the comics. You know, dark side showed up and bad man wound up getting, you know, quote, unquote, killed and of course you find out that he's like unstuck in time. And but while he's busy, working his way forward from the neolithic period. working his way forward from the Neolithic period. Jesus. Because it's because it's DC.

Right. But anyway, so he's bouncing forward in time. And while he's gone and everybody thinks he's dead, and now I've forgotten his name, but the first Robin Robin night. Oh okay Dick Grayson. Dick Grayson, thank you. I kept thinking Tim Drake and I knew it was wrong. Um uh Dick Grayson picks up the cowl as as his heir. You know Dick Dick Grayson says all right well you know somebody's got to be Batman and and there's a wonderful, it's a really great,

but very short series of comics with Dick Grayson being Batman and actually had moments where he's interacting with all of the other members of the Batman family from behind the cowl. And everybody knows it's not the same bad man. And there's a great moment where it's like him and Gordon have a great exchange back and forth about, well, I don't do things the same way. Right.

And they kind of flirted with this when the one-time villain turned kind of anti-hero as a real wound up becoming Batman for a period when Bane had broken his back. And, and it's like, you know, we've got somebody else under the cow, it's not Bruce Wayne anymore. And there's a part of me that almost kind of wants that to like be a real thing like you know what let's let him get old let's let him Retire let him become oracle. Yes you know and and and

And do that. Yes that and and have that and have that become Part of the legend, you know, but have that become part of the legend, you know, but we're so tied to the idea of it having to be Bruce Wayne and having to be tied to his parents being murdered as the reason why he's doing it and all of this, that in a way the character is kind of trapped. And yeah, and there's there's your Camel for the day is the absurdity of of Batman. I mean, it really it really is, you know, in in actualizing himself in his broken way, he can never escape who he is.

He is Cicifus. And he enjoys being Cicifus. Well, we have to do imagine Cicifus happy. Right. So, yeah, so that's my, that is, that's my ultimately after. Now God knows how many episodes we've done with this now. I think that's my takeaway. Is there's this real... I think I have a deeper understanding of the modern myth power of the character.

And at the same time, I kind of want to see the character get to move on. Me too. Me too. I really, I do of want to see the character get to move on. Me too. Me too. I really, I do. I want him to have, I want him to have a retirement that's not interrupted by they need him one last time kind of shit. Yeah. You know, you know, I trained for fuck sake. I trained four, five, depending on how many you can have, can it. I've trained, I've trained five people who could replace me. I mean, let's not talk about Jason Todd

because we don't want him wearing a cowl. But you know, I mean, like, you know, the bat family have, there are multiple airs of parent going on. Mm-hmm. You know, and like, oh my God, let's talk about a war for the cowl. Like, let's talk about a competition where, you know,

Bruce Wayne retires and just says, to the strongest. You know, or something like that. Like, oh my God, I'm gonna put it suck, but it'd be a great story. Yeah, yeah, it would really make Bruce, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, a de-cute, like I don't mind he's a de-cute because he's broken.

I mind he's a de-cute for making choices like that, you know? Yeah, no, I know, I know, I know, I know, I'm mostly being... But I get what you mean though, like at the same time. Like, yeah. Or have it be where Jason Todd does take up the mantle and he is somehow gamed it, well, he can't because he's dead, but you get the idea. Have somebody take up the mantle who has gamed it just right and they're dispensing their idea of justice and the others have to team up with no resources against the

entire Empire and Bruce Wayne is gone, just gone. Yeah. Um, and, and have them have to wrestle it back from this guy and he ends up in Arkham. And then they have a decision to make, you know, and, and, and I feel I should point out to you, because, because this is actually development in the comic, Jason Todd isn't actually dead. Oh, okay. Jason Todd is, is the red hood. okay. Jason Todd is the red hood. Okay.

Well, that would make sense. What with his being beaten to death with a crowbar thing. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, sorry, I had to interject that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I will in 30 seconds or fewer say what I got out of this exploration

of a character. I can't hold on that time. That's fine. It's fine because it's like, you know, I this exploration of a character. Can I talk to him all that time? No, it's fine. It's fine, because it was like, you know, I ask you what you leaned after I talked for an hour and a half. Sure. But in my brief time, I will say this, every Batman movie since 1989 has been an exploration of the self.

And it, the good ones, well, I don't want to say the good ones, because they've all been actually really good at what they did. Each of them was answering a cultural need at the time. And the Michael Keaton ones explored the, and the Val Kilmer one, explored the inner life of Bruce Wayne and then the rest of them went back to Batman and Bruce Wayne was an accessory or a vessel for Batman and I think that in that happening that very much was reflective of our society in in not very good ways.

At least in the Keaton ones and the Velkheimer ones, we were reflective. And in the other ones, we were projective as a society. And I think that's a bad thing. And because the things that are getting projected through all the Christian bailbatmans are these internal struggles that become rage and become destruction and ultimately become self obliteration. And then when that's not enough, we start obliterating others and we start turning our self-hatred and our fear and our hatred of ourselves for our fear at the metropolis black

zero event. Our hatred of ourselves at being essentially weak, we turn that toward foreigners. And I think that it's it's really telling and also very disappointing that that's where it went. Thank goodness for Martha. And that's all I'm going to say. Okay, I can see that. Yeah. So are you reading anything? Because we got a break coming up. It's okay if you're not continuing to read. I'm continuing to read the the history of the flying tiger. just that I think I mentioned last time. Oh yeah, yeah. Um, and the story is, is only getting better.

Um, I've, I've now managed to get far enough to actually, uh, uh, uh, the, the war has now started in the history of the number reading. We've gotten past December 7, 1941 and the tigers have actually now, number one, the volunteer group have actually faced Japanese bombers over China. And the American press American press has actually now coined the term the flying tigers. Oh, neat. Which was not part of Chanel's, like, that there was the branding was totally not done by anybody in the AVG. The first time that we see turns out the first time that the phrase flying tiger showed up at print was in life magazine In an article about their actions over China

And actually it turns out the shark mouth that they painted on the intake Of their P40s that iconic sharks mouth was something that one of the members of the squadron had seen in a magazine about Australian P40s, which of course had been sent to the Australians because the Lend-Lease program by FDR. So just, you know, interesting tidbits from that. So that's why I'm reading right now. interesting tidbits from that. So that's that's what I'm reading right now. Over the break I'm going to throw myself at Dune again to you know try to try to make the time to finish it so that I can try to put some ideas together for doing something for the podcast with it. So yeah that's that's what I'm reading right now. How about you?

I'm going to recommend a book called Proofiness. Proofiness by Charlie Seaf. S-E-I-F-E, Charles Seaf. And it's how you're being fooled by the numbers. It came out just a few years back. And essentially, he writes with kind of a tongue-in-cheek style about how it's almost like how freakingomics kind of approach things. But how essentially this idea of accountability is dangerous as fuck to both democracy and education, and I'm kind of extrapolating that one out, but essentially how skewed metrics are being used to change people's perceptions of things, and how that's subverting our justice system, how it's making it so elections get rigged.

It's making it so public opinion is actually swayed by intuitively clever lies. So it's called proofiness. I think teachers should probably read it because of the pressure that we're under to quote, hold kids accountable, unquote, during COVID instead of like, quote, be a goddamn human, unquote. So you have a strong opinion about that. Oh, yeah. If so, the owner of our audience has had the wonderful opportunity to actually witness you shouting at school parts. Yes. And, and fellow staff members on occasion. Yeah.

Actually, I'm pretty civil, because I'm also protecting them. But yeah, this, this idea of now is the time to keep kids accountable and make sure that they can go through the paces. It's like, no. Now is the time to do as little damage as possible to mitigate what they've lost and to show them humanity on the other side of that screen. And I think proof in this will give you, sometimes

it will give people a bit of permission to reject and to reflect upon the bullshit that we've kind of just accepted is real. That COVID is frankly showing to be false. So, anyway, there you go. That's what I have. Where can they find you on the social medias? On the social medias, you can find me on Twitter at ehplaylock. You can find me on Instagram at Mr. Blaylock. You can find me on TikTok at ehplaylock. And where collectively, of course, you can find the two of us on the Twitter machine at Geek History Time.

And where can they find you, sir? Well, I can be found every Tuesday night on twitch.tv forward slash capital puns, 8 30 p.m. Pacific Standard time. Slinging puns with my partner, Daniel Humberger and Mark Berg, who now has his own YouTube channel for for really cool, gamey stuff. And you know, you'll go find the plugs there. You can also find me on the Twinsta Twitter Instagram at at the harmony. That's two inches in the middle there and you can find me in those places. So that's not a bad couple of places to find me. I don't have any other shows coming up. I just have this podcast in that show. So for um, for Geek History of Time, I'm Deemine Harmony. I'm Ed Blaylock and until next time keep rolling 20s.