A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Are Food Shows Lying To You? ft. Top Chef Judge Gail Simmons

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Today, Josh and Nicole are joined by food writer, cookbook author and permanent judge on Emmy-winning series Top Chef: Gail Simmons to discuss the ins and outs of culinary competition shows and stories they are telling through food media. Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: http://youtube.com/@ahotdogisasandwich To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Are judges on food shows lying to you? This is A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich.

What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. I'm your host, Josh Ayer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inayati. And today we are joined by Gail Simmons, culinary expert, food writer, and television personality. You may know her best as a permanent judge on Bravo's Emmy-winning series, Top Chef, since the show's inception in 2006. And I was right there watching the premiere, Nicole.

And she's coming back to your TV on March 9th for Top Chef Season 20 International All-Stars Edition, set in London. Gail, welcome to the show. Hi. Hi, guys. I'm psyched to be talking to you. Us too. This is incredible. Thank you. Thank you. Psyched to be talking to you. Psyched about Top Chef Season 20 International All-Stars. Badass. They should have just renamed it The Hunger Games

because that's what this reminds me of. Essentially, that's what it is. Yes, I'm sorry. Cutthroat to the death. Probably IP issues around that. But tell me about the new season that is coming out on March 9th. You're taking all-stars from countries all around the world? That's right.

So the most amazing thing about our little journey, our little engine that could, is that, you know, we started making Top Chef in 2006. We have now made 20 seasons. And along the way, different countries all over the world, something like 29 countries all over the world have licensed and made their own versions of Top Chef. So there's Top Chef Middle East and Top Chef Poland and Top Chef

France and Italy and Top Chef Canada and Top Chef Lithuania. I don't know. I mean, really, 29 of them. In addition to our version, which airs in 100 plus countries all over the world. And so we were trying to figure out what to do for our 20th anniversary, this kind of milestone we can't believe we're still kicking around. That's right. And we thought, well, wouldn't it be amazing to gather winners and runners up like the best of the best from all these different versions all over the world,

bring them to some sort of like a neutral territory and shoot a top chef with them. And that's what we did. So it's called World All-Stars. There are 11 countries represented, all winners or finalists from their respective countries and me tom and padma hanging out in london for two months and it was amazing it was so fun it kind of changed everything it just felt really different and crazy and like something we'd never done before and i'm really excited for you guys to see it i'm i always say top top chef is my favorite sports season like my favorite sports seasons go top chef then it's like college basketball, outdoor track and field. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Most food competitions are like the best sports on TV. No offense. 100%. But no, there's a reason. So a thing we wanted to talk about today is what makes Top Chef different as a cooking competition show. Because not only is Top Chef on its 20th season, but every single season and every single competitor stays relevant. Like Top Chef is the only cooking competition show out there. And I'm not just

trying to butter your bread over here, but that if you are, I will, because I'll absolutely gush. I feel it. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, every, every chef testant, I know that's a branded word. Chef testant, love it. I think it's still a capital C. I don't think we own the word, but we did create the word. I'm going to make chef-testant t-shirts then in that case. But every contestant that's in the top five, I mean, they are getting restaurant deals. They're getting opportunities.

It's incredible. I'm one of those people. My first date with my fiance was at Top Chef Boston winner May Lynn's restaurant, Nightshade. Boston or Portland? Nightshade. Oh, downtown. We do love Nightshade. It was the most beautiful restaurant.

Oh, I loved it. I love her. And you're right. You know, we think about this a lot because we want to stay in our jobs. And all of us, not just Dylan Padma and I, but all 150 of us really love making this show. Sure. And so every year the question becomes, how do we keep relevant? this show. And so every year the question becomes, how do we keep relevant? How do we stay being able to do what we've created and make it different and make it fresh and make people want to keep

watching? And I think there's a number of things that have allowed us to do that. I think you hit it on the head, Josh, in that it's not about us. It's really about the contestants um our casting department spends an inordinate amount of time i'm sure finding people who really speak to sort of our mission of the best of the best people on that like precipice of their careers who we know can change the industry and i think and also that they have a story to tell you you know, they need to be able to cook obviously at the highest level. Like these are all professionals. These are not people who want to be chefs, right? These are people who have been practicing their craft for 10 plus years. They're chef de cuisines, they're executive chefs, they're restaurant owners at this point on their

own, in their own right. And they are, um, they have a specific point of view so they can cook, but they also need to tell their story. And, you know, those criteria have also changed and sort of evolved and become even more important over the years as the culinary industry has changed too. So that's the first thing. We really make sure that it's about them and how to put them in a position just to make the most captivating storytelling.

And then also I think the fact that we're not a studio show. We're on location. We go around the world. So every, I mean, this is the first season. London was the first time we did an entire season abroad, but we usually are in a different city in America every single season, a different place all over the world for the finale.

We've been from Hawaii to Singapore to Italy, Mexico, all over the place. And so the backdrop is such a big piece of our story. It, you know, the backdrop really speaks to the food that we're cooking, the history, the way we create our challenges. It really becomes its own character in a lot of ways. And it's what differentiates every season. You know, we don't tell the same story in Charleston that we tell in Tuscany. We don't tell the same story in Boston that we tell in Colorado. Because the ingredients, the agriculture, the chefs who built those cities, the immigrant populations that traversed into those places through trade routes over hundreds of years, like inform the food you eat in that place,

which informed the food that we're going to get them to cook and learn. And so every season is really different. And that sounded sort of weirdly like a geography lesson, but also. That's part of it. I think that's what makes us different. Right. So I'm really like, I think, you know, it's the hardest part about our show because we, you know, every year we have to start fresh and every year we have to build our kitchen

all over again and pick up our families and move to some unknown location. But we also get to really like plant roots and learn about that place both on the show and off. And I think that's what kind of makes us who we are. I think it's such an important piece of what keeps us going. Yeah. Have you ever thought about having two internet chefs be on Top Chef? Tell your casting director. What are you saying? Nicole, Nicole, pitch us out. Well, you know, I know you guys know a lot about food. I've listened to you talk about food and I

love talking about food with you and hearing you guys talk about food. But really, this is about like the restaurant industry, right? Absolutely. Yeah. It's really about pros in professional kitchens. Like I don't call myself a chef. I've worked in the restaurant industry for 20 plus years and, um, more 24 years at this point, I'm really, really old. And I would never call myself a chef. Tom is a chef. He's a chef chef.

He's the, you know, the demigod of chefs. But our show is about really opening that kitchen door and seeing the real life and the skills of true professionals are. We've had franchises over the years, right? We did Top Chef Junior and Top Chef Desserts and Top Chef Masters. Love Top Chef Junior. And Top Chef Amateurs. Oh, we can do Top Chef Amateurs. I mean, you guys aren't total amateurs. Oh, we can do Top Chef amateurs. And the amateurs weren't even like total amateurs. I mean, you guys aren't total amateurs. That's not what I'm saying.

But it was people who are not pros cooking every single night on the line. Yeah, yeah. But that's what our flagship is really about. It's about the trenches, you know? And that's one of the things that I love about it so much is that level of professionalism. So we get asked all the time.

We call ourselves chefs. We both worked in restaurants, but primarily... Yeah, very, very sparingly. Yeah, exactly. But it's not what you do now no no no right and so but a lot of people yeah we'll get questions just like why don't you ever go on top chef one we're not eligible because we're not that type of chef but two i would get kicked off immediately and i would get kicked off specifically because your food's bad by tom not because my food's bad no no like i fully believe that we can cook with the best of the best but the differences are i remember there was one season there was a person who identified as a quote private chef in napa he was a young guy and we in the industry know that the term private chef means a lot of different things to a lot of

different people that is very so there was a um god i think there were like three different kitchens but they were doing it was the first episode. It might have been a season where you started with like 30 contestants and then immediately cut half of them. Yeah. Oh, we did do that once. God, now you're really stretching my brain. I'm telling you, I've rewatched every season. It might have been in Texas.

I think in Texas we did that. We started, the first episode was like yeah 30 chefs in San Antonio and we immediately got rid of half of them and that's where the season started and I think it was like Wolfgang Puck Tom and then another chef were like I'm gonna put you through a technical proficiency round to weed you out

and Tom had them like breaking yeah here's fabricating chickens it wasn't fabricating chickens no oh worse breaking down primal cuts of beef oh and so yeah and so there's tom who like you said he's a i mean i've read his book think like a chef um total chef chef guy from new york totally and uh you know if i were faced with a butcher knife and hey break down the primal cuts of beef i'd be like hold on let me watch a 40 minute youtube video about it and then do poorly because that's how we yeah even i mean information yeah playing a fish it's like i can do it but it's not something that i Let me watch a 40 minute YouTube video about it and then do poorly. Because that's how we. Yeah. Even information.

Yeah. Playing a fish. It's like I can do it, but it's not something that I do do every day. It's not muscle memory. Well, that's it. But that's it. You nailed it, Nicole. That's what it's about.

It's about muscle memory. It's about people who are like it's rote for them. Right. Like these are people who are on the line cooking their guts out every single day and also leading every day. Right. Because the word chef is different than the word cook. Like I was a cook for a long time and I'm an expert. I'm an, I am a professional in the industry, but I'm not a chef. A chef to me is the person who leads a

kitchen team. And if you're not doing that, you could be an amazing home cook. You could be amazing entertainer. You could be an amazing knowledgeable person as i like to think i am but i am not a chef right it's just a different it's a different set of muscles it's a different part of your brain and that creates like one incredible real very real drama on the show again i'm just gonna go screw it i don't care what i'm having fun okay but no a moment that i think about a lot is uh Kish, who one of, to me, the best Top Chef contestants of all time, fully throwing herself under the bus with Josie when Josie came back first. It's such a good memory.

Thank you so much. She does. That was really big. That was a very big moment for us. It was crazy. And I mean, none of that is staged. None of that's pre-produced. None of it.

Nothing. No way. We could never. First of all, Tom would walk off the set in a second. it was crazy and and i mean none of that is staged none of that's pre-produced that's nothing no way we could never it first of all tom would walk off the set in a second because he is you know our our north star but none of us would want that that's not how our show works i don't know i can't speak to any other show any other food competition but our show is not scripted it's not planned and if our producers try to step in and um suggest something we all just give them the finger but most days oh that's so much we gotta nicole we need to have that attitude here who do we give the finger to maggie right here i'm sorry no that was a joke but now it's on here oh it didn't feel right but no there was this one i don't know if you know this moment

so it's during restaurant wars which again that, that's- I know a restaurant. He's in 10, I want to say, in Seattle. I think it was. Is that true? I think so. I think it was. Yeah, yeah. And-

The team split up and then they have to make a restaurant game. If the finale is my Super Bowl, Restaurant Wars is like my all-star game, my dunk contest. Oh, okay. Got it. It's that mid-season thing. More sports references. My favorite. Okay. that mid-season thing. More sports references, my favorite, okay? Top chefs of sport.

But Josie, who is working as, Kristen Kish is the head chef, the executive chef of the restaurant. Josie messes up a dish and kind of waffles amidst the judges being like, well, I was told to do this. And you could tell she was kind of trying to protect herself.

And then Kristen just steps up and she's just like, I'm the head chef. i should have had a better eye on it i should have been tasting while i was expoing you're right i should go home i'm out and then battles her way back through last chance kitchen which what another freaking wow i love people like that yeah yeah that just takes and ends up taking it that you know and that was a momentous like season for all those reasons because for us that was the first time that that had happened really where, I mean, other people had put themselves up on the chopping block and backed down. But it was mostly always because they had sort of deserved to do it, right? But, you know, in Kristen's mind as the chef that she is she was like I'm the head of

this kitchen I take the blame that's the job of a chef you celebrate when when things go great you celebrate the people under you and when things go crappy you take the fall like that's that's what a great chef does and Kristen was like you know what you're right she screwed up but I should have known better because I was leaving her and I'm out i can't like um you know she kind of fell on her sword yeah but then she battled back through last chance kitchen came back to the finals and won the whole thing and that was the first time that that had ever happened and that moved to us because last chance kitchen 10 seasons ago was still um a social experiment you know it was something no one else had done and we were trying to do this sort of you know simultaneous online competition with our eliminated chefs we didn't know, it was something no one else had done. And we were trying to do this sort of, you know, simultaneous online competition with our eliminated chefs. We didn't know if it would ever work or be relevant. And when she won and came back and then won the whole thing, it sort of proved our, our hypothesis that that could really become something that could be integrated into the show. So she was, you know, just a warrior, a warrior human.

100%. And now, I mean, she's off, you know, doing her own thing. One, opening up restaurants. Kick ass. But also hosting multiple shows now. Wow. Yeah. She wrote a cookbook.

She shot the proposal for her cookbook in my living room. No way. Oh, my gosh. What a homie. And she wrote half the book. And this is a testament to the relationships that you forge with contestants after the fact. She wrote half the book. She had a co-author who helped her write the book who was based in Montreal. And my husband's family's from Montreal. And she wrote half the book literally in my husband's childhood bedroom like she was staying in his childhood bedroom that's incredible to work on the book with this woman in montreal and so we would at night we

would get like texts from her showing us you know my husband's like stuffed raccoon from when he was 12 years old that's incredible and then his mom would be texting us being like um i caught kristin raiding the fridge at two in the morning, making like grilled cheese sandwiches, you know, funny. She found the white anchovies and she was making an emulsion. Yeah, exactly.

No, she was great. She's, she's amazing. How many other TV food competition judges do you think have relationships like this with, you know, the people who have competed on it? This seems really special.

Is this like a top chef exclusive thing you think? It's a good question. I've never asked. Here's the thing. Again, I think a lot of other competition shows, they have different relationships from the get-go with their contestants where they all kind of can hang out during the taping. Or some competitions are just every episode stands alone,

so there's new contestants coming in. Chopped is like new people every single episode. With us, we sort of like, you know chopped is like new people every single episode with us we sort of like you know go to a remote location with these people for two months but we have zero contact with them until the show has not only been shot but then aired we very specifically and our our producers very specifically do not let us alone in a room with them they are babysat from the second they wake up in the morning till the second they go to bed. We are completely kept separate from them because we don't want to get to know them. We don't want to have any relationship with them while they're cooking. We just want to know about their food. We don't care if their wife left them, if they had a baby two months ago,

if they're suffering from some sort of other trauma. We want to be impartial because that's the only way to get to a fair final result in our minds. It's the only way to play the game well. And we've tried, we've thought about it a million ways and just no other way works for us. So we keep so completely detached and away from them that we aren't even allowed to look them in the eye unless we're on camera. And they don't even keep us in the same building most of the time, except for when we're in the kitchen or when we're at judge's table or at a challenge. So it's only afterwards, you know, after it airs even,

we don't even engage with them on social media or anything until after the show has aired. Wow. And only then, because we also, then people see it and they think that, people don't understand how little contact and they don't. Even though once the show airs, it's many months. I'm sorry.

Once the show is shot, there's many months until it airs. Of course. And all the decisions have already been made. But when things come out or people get to know them while they're watching the show, they don't know that timeline. And it can just be not good. We like to just keep things fairly clean. But afterwards, we do have the chance to get to know them. We're often at events with them.

We reach out. We celebrate them. We do lots of things with them. And that's really special because there are so many of them now over 20 seasons who have become big parts of our lives and huge parts of the restaurant industry in and of itself.

It's a huge part of my life. So my first date ended up with an engagement there. So we did it. I mean, thanks, Maylynn. Yeah, I mean, honestly. It was extraordinary. Yeah. So that level of like realism and the judging and you not getting to know the contestants in that

way it's funny because the audience is getting to know them in that way while you're not that's so true and so you almost end up i'm gonna bring up controversial most controversial finale of all time nina compton versus nicholas elmi yeah that's it i mean that was and i remember why was it so controversial all right so nina compton i incredible chef. Okay. And she had been dominating the entire season. Nicholas Elmy from Philadelphia has a restaurant out there called Laurel. Super, super molecular gastronomy. I'm going to make nine different types of carrots and different textures and whatever. Okay.

But, like, everyone the whole season was just like, Nina is going to absolutely smoke this finale. And then she really sort of, of like bit off a lot more than she could chew not only that i believe it was like either it was i think maybe a five course meal and she was like i'm gonna make seven courses and due to the rules um y'all were like well we're only judging five because that's what this was about and so some of her food like had to suffer because she made so much stuff oh and so Nicholas ends up winning that season. And everybody was like, can't you see that she was the best chef the whole time

and deserved to win? It was like, but we are playing it by the rules that we have set out from the beginning. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. You're right. And we still go back in the lore of the show and talk about that finale so often, uh, for a lot

of reasons, uh, you know, it's, there's like precedents. We're like the Supreme court, you know, and it sets precedents, um, that we have to continue. And here's the exact thing about an example, like, like you suggest that season, season 11, it was our New Orleans season. We went to Hawaii for the finale. And the issue becomes, I think another thing that makes the show special is that that's exactly where the tension lies in the show between viewer and us. We are the taste buds, right? You can't taste the food. Like other shows, you can hear their song,

you can see their fashion designs. You can't taste the food. So you rely completely on us for that, that sensory experience. Meanwhile, all you see is once it's all strung together and edited together, you're seeing their name, their narrative upfront before you see their food every episode, right? We meanwhile have seen nothing of what you see until the same time that you're seeing it. So when it's happening, when we shoot it four months before, we don't know any of that stuff. We don't know any of the what's happening in the kitchen, what's happening in the house, what's going on in their lives.

All we see, because we keep so separate from them, is what's in front of us at every challenge. And if we are to judge cumulatively over the course of a season, it becomes completely unfair. If we were to say, well, yes, you're right. Nina won more challenges, beat him more times in the past. Then how do you judge the actual qualities of the dish in front of you? Because then it becomes, well, she really screwed up today, but she did so well yesterday that she should win. Well, that isn't fair. It has to be our judging on our show has to just be what is in front of you every day. And every day you get a clean slate and you start fresh. Otherwise we're basing it on subjectivity on if we like the person on personal bias or on, well, he won four challenges, but even though today he totally screwed up, we're just going to give it to him. So what's it worth to, like, what's the point, right? In trying to do well

every day, what's the motivation there? And on the reverse, it's true too. What if someone can't find their groove for a couple of challenges, but then they do and they nail it and they put it in front of you and you're like, yeah, well, this is awesome. And it's by far the best dish at the table, but Nina did better yesterday. So we're going to give it to her. Like, that doesn't make sense either. Right. We've tried to think about this. We've tried to think of a formula, a million ways to do it otherwise. And it's impossible because it doesn't speak to the challenge that we're giving them that day in that moment. And that was an example, Nina versus, um, you know, versus Nicholas all those years ago of how we had to stick to the rules or else it wouldn't have been fair. Do you know that we sat

at that judge's table until six o'clock in the morning? Get the hell out of here. No way. Like choosing a new post. And P.S. I was, um, almost eight months pregnant. It was a big deal. So painful. But we could not get up until we were all on the same page and really felt like we were making a decision that felt right. And yes, there was in my heart things I wanted to say or, you know, to give it to Nina. you know, to give it to Nina. But in the end, we knew that that episode, that dinner, that meal, those dishes,

that particular day, Nicholas had been more consistent and he had delivered a little bit more of a stronger, cohesive meal. And that had to count, right? So it's safe to say- It was so nerdy of me to- No, it wasn't nerdy. It was so passionate.

I loved it. So it's safe to say, you guys don't really lie on the show. We don't. Because you can't. We don't. Honestly, I would say it would be easier. But we don't want to lie because look what we've done.

There's something that's worked. And here we are. We're still here. I feel like it goes against the ethos of the show and you three as judges. It just doesn't make sense to lie. Because everyone's like, oh, the food is cold. Or the dishes are like, oh, it's not cold. See, I had no idea.

I thought the food would be cold. Again, can't speak to other shows. Yeah, they might put like a garnish at the end or like something, you know, like when time's up, they still put a little garnish, so they cheat. But you're like, okay, whatever. But you guys don't do that. Timers go off when we say 45 minutes

or two and a half hours. That's exactly what they get. And our AD and his team are so vigilant that food is eaten hot. So Padma and I joke, but it's true that if my dress isn't done up or if I'm in the bathroom or if I'm busy sending an email when that timer goes off, then I don't eat. It doesn't matter. That food's coming out the second it gets set down. It's not fair to them. Compromises their food. On our very first finale season one, we had an issue about the temperature of the food and it changing the consistency of that dish, right? Food sits, it gets, it congeals, It changes. It weeps. It melts. It does a million different things. And that first season, we felt that because it sat around to wait for the lighting to be good and to wait for us to be ready, that their food was compromised. And Tom looked up and was like, this is never happening again.

I can't do it. It's not fair to them. God bless. They've just worked their butts off. They are sweating. They are putting everything into it. We have to respect what they've done. And if we're going to be serious and want to get the quality of Chef Teston that we are striving to get on the show, then we need to prove to them that we give a crap, a poop. I think crap is within our guidelines.

Okay. I don't know. I'm trying. I'm stretching. No, I respect it. It's so hard for us. We were hoping to catch you in a big lie about how all the food's cold and how it's all food stylist tricks yeah but no I mean we so you know we make a YouTube cooking show and we'll do competitions have you seen it that means so much

oh my gosh you gotta come judge we gotta see what it actually takes Nicole all but I'm gonna destroy you so hard i'm gonna sabotage i'm gonna destroy you no i'm gonna throw salt in your food from across i mean you know how much uh you need to get beauties of the food and you're trying to set up the lights and things get cold thumbnail photos beauty photos you gotta pick get a picture of your own face wearing the same shirt you were wearing two days ago yeah it's exhausting but it's that relentless commitment

that makes a good product and the thing i think about in food media especially today is the answer is always more not better you know it's always like we need um we're not calling listen i love food network i grew up on food network i still watch a ton of food over the top yeah yeah i mean it's um and i think the president yeah. I mean, it's, and I think the president of Food Network once said it's not our job to teach people how to cook. It's our job to get people to watch TV.

Sure. It's totally true. And we're trying to get views on YouTube. And I know Top Chef is similarly expanding its brand into like a kind of Top Chef expanded universe. I mean, you've hosted Top Chef Amateurs, Top Chef Just Desserts.

What's the future of Top Chef and how do you keep that consistency? I mean, that's the hardest question. I joke that in season four, we were in Chicago and our executive producer at the time, creator of Top Chef, Andy Cohen, came to visit us on set. He was our network executive at the time. And we, we all went out for dinner and we're sitting around the table and it's season four, which by the way, I thought would never happen. And the fact that we got to season two was like a complete triumph and we're sitting at the table and I'm like, Andy, like how long could you

imagine the show going on for? Like realistically, like what's my future here? Do, am I going to have a job tomorrow? Or like, should I start, start you know i had a different job i was working at food wine magazine and um you know should i keep the plan b what are we doing here uh and he was like i don't know season 11 he sort of said very nonchalantly and i laughed in his face yeah i was like that is ridiculous that's the most absurd thing i've ever heard. I'm not doing this till season 11. There's no way. I can't imagine that anyone is going to want us in their living rooms at season 11. And sure enough, we're making season 20 and still deep in it and love our jobs.

So I think part of our future is not sticking too closely to what we believe our future will be. And it's to taking the temperature of the industry evolving and changing our show, which we have done so many times, you know, we went into a pandemic and the restaurant industry basically disintegrated in front of our eyes. And we sat down and said, Okay, how can we address this and still make TV that feels relevant, and that will bring our community together. And we've totally reinvented the show that season and did it somehow in a bubble, you know, it was a hell of a season too. I remember, you know, and we cried every day. Like we literally, it was the most difficult challenge we've ever faced because the world was

like at war in five different ways. Sure. And, um, but also our industry was in peril and that sounds dramatic, but it was true. It truly was, but it our, our industry was in peril and that sounds dramatic, but it was true. It truly was. But it, you know, the pandemic exposed so many cracks in so many systems and the restaurant industry certainly was one of them. So I think part of it is just being true to the industry that we serve and seeing where it goes and taking cues from there. And then just, you know, giving people an escape

because I love, there's nothing more I love, like lots of people who are in the food industry, like you guys watch the show and, and understand what we do. But to me, the most satisfying thing too, is for someone to come up to me, you know, on the subway or in a grocery store and say, I don't even know why I watch you guys because I don't like to cook. I'm not a foodie. We get that all the time. I don't have anything, but it's their sport, right? To your point. And so I think it's making sure that we're inclusive and that word means a thousand things, inclusive in terms of our industry, in terms of equality in the world, in terms of being able to tell diverse stories, but also inclusive to a wide audience

that like people can watch it with their families but also they can watch it at two in the morning um when they you know are i don't know doing other activities i don't know like there's a million folding laundry i did a lot of 2am laundry i don't know coming home after a bar like whatever they're doing or in a pandemic they can go back to season one and watch it and find comfort in that. But also we can teach them some stuff and we're not trying to be like condescending or educational, but I do think there's a piece of us that like empowers you to feel better about, you know, the world and it's hopeful. And it's also, you know, fun because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're not a foodie or love to cook or give anything about food. At the end of the day, we're all human and we all have to eat three times a day.

So everyone has an opinion. And how do you engage that and keep it going? And that's kind of our challenge, which we hope to keep doing. Here's to Top Chef Season 50. Gail, we'll see you back here in 22 years. Amen. Yeah, we'll be in our walkers. Tom and I will just be like, Padma will be like,

she'll have an automatic one. She'll be like, zipper Vespa. All the food is going to be virtual reality and little pills. Little pills. Yeah, exactly. We'll be right there with you.

Well, Gail and Josh, we've heard what you have to say. Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling around there out in the Twitterverse. It's time for a portion we call... Opinions are like casseroles! God, it never gets old, Nicole. You want to take the first opinion? All right, sounds good.

We'll go. Let's see. Let Chacho feed you. Putting, quote, cotija cheese on street tacos is a crime and don't call it Mexican at this point. Also putting cumin in a dish because it's, quote, Mexican. Talking about overuse of cotija cheese and cumin in Mexican food. How do you feel, Gil? Okay. Let me think about this.

I do think there tends to sometimes be an overuse of cumin more than cotija cheese, as I have seen it. But I do think that cotija cheese should not be everywhere. You don't want it on every taco. There are certain tacos that do not need cheese. And I think our instance is just to smother everything in cheese, whether it's cotija or anything. So I can get behind it, but also it's, I mean, a little cheese on top.

It's a good cheese. There is a place. There is a place for the cotija cheese. There's a place for cumin, but you need to have a light and delicate hand. Do you know what I mean? There is a place for the cotija cheese. There's a place for cumin. But you need to have a light and delicate hand. Do you know what I mean? Sure. It's often, I think, more about proportion than overuse.

Yeah. In my humble opinion. And intention to me. It's like, why is it? Like my favorite. Yes. When I read the cotija thing, my favorite application of cotija on the taco right now is at a spot called Los Dorados. Never been. It's tacos dorados. Most in america would call them taquitos um but they are the the flauta shape tacos dorados and they are smothered in multiple different kinds of salsa

and then the final thing to go on is just a hefty dusting of cotija cheese so the cotija is the first thing that hits your palate and then you're just like kind of blasted by the freshness and the acid with the crunch. It eats like like pani puri. Like you get the crunch. Yeah, like explodes. Yeah. Juiciness. So good.

And then that sounds great. Cumin is a that's really Taco Bell's fault. Cumin is used in Mexican cooking, but scaringly. I wouldn't say it's like the star flavor. Yeah, it's Lowry's taco seasoning. People associate that. Yeah. Or whatever.

It's like black olives and green onions. It's like, at some point white people in the seventies started throwing it on their quote unquote taco dips. And now it's a thing. Now it's like canon. Yeah. Yeah.

So I get it. That's a good opinion. Okay. Alyssa period. Orals co says animal fat is disgusting. The leaner, the better. Okay.

If you don't care about flavor that's correct yeah i love cooking things in tallow i love cooking things and is butter considered an animal fat i'd say so yes it's not necessarily from dairy i mean it's not protein yeah it's not right from uh marbling yeah lardo tallow schmaltz give me a give me it all give me it all but not even that just cooking a piece of meat there is inherently fat in it and you can't cook the meat otherwise and the meat will have no flavor without fat fat holds the favor molecules so the more marbling in a piece of steak, for example, the more fat in a chicken thigh. That is why a chicken thigh inherently takes on and is more flavorful than a chicken breast, which is incredibly lean and basically like a piece of

white bread. There's no flavor there. Sure. You can add flavoring, but it doesn't taste like chicken. Um, and there's just, that's, that's where the flavor lies, let alone the ability to keep moisture in. So if you enjoy no flavor and also,

um, eating really, really dry, almost unsalable things, then no fat is for you. And maybe, you know what almost unswallable things, then no fat is for you. Yep. And you know what? Maybe they're just dipping their chicken breast into a cup of water

and that's all there is for that. I've started in my home, I've started pulling away from oils. So I don't use like, what is it called? Hydrogenated oils or like grapeseed oils and stuff. I've started removing it from our diet and now we do butter, tallow, avocado oil or olive oil.

So it's just pressed oils and like animal oils. Yeah, we don't do any more neutral oils in my house. That is almost all that I cook with and I'm ashamed because it's just so easy and I'm trying to get off the, we were all raised from watching Food Network shows that olive oil is what you should be cooking with all the time no matter what you're doing. And then at some point I like red pilled myself and I was like, my tipping moment was watching a Food Network chef. And again, I love Food Network.

I don't know why I'm talking about this. I love Food Network. But I watched a Food Network chef making like an Asian, like it was a Korean recipe. And they're like, start with a glug of olive oil. And it was like, I don't think historically that was part of the Korean cooking canon. And it's very strange that you're doing that. Schmaltz, though, is the best animal fat to cook with. It's so unique. I'm learning how to use schmaltz more.

It needs to be more readily available. More readily available schmaltz. It's not. Can I tell you what the problem is? Go to your butcher, though. Your butcher. Yeah. If you have a good quality butcher. I, it's not. Can I tell you what the problem is? Go to your butcher, though. Your butcher. Yeah. If you have a good quality butcher.

I do, I do. They usually keep some schmaltz or can get it for you. I go to the Sephardic butchers. They don't really do that stuff, but I'll find a good Ashkenazi one. You want the next opinion, Josh? I got it, I got it.

Okay, here we go. At Father of Imps, diced jalapenos mixed with grape jelly smothered on a hot dog it's so good jalapeno grape jelly hot dog gail where we at personally i am not big into grape jelly number one number two but if that's okay like it has its place for sure with some peanut butter. I'm all for it. But also, I don't know, you know, I'm not a salty sweet mixer by nature. Like it's not my go-to.

But I will say this. I'm willing to accept that combination mostly because my daughter, who's nine years old and very opinionated about food. I wonder where she got that from. I'm actually the easiest eater in my whole family. I just want to say the least judgmental, most easygoing eater in my family. That's great. I'm not saying something because, wow, cooking for them is a pain in the butt. No, that's not true. They're actually really good eaters. All to say, one of her favorite things to eat since she was about four years old that she created herself is a bagel with strawberry jam and capers.

Cute. And I'm like, girl, that is problematic in this house. That's my kind of girl right there. No, I love that. She is like, mama, if you do another cookbook, this is in it. It is amazing. And I tasted it and I get why she likes it because there's that hit of salt and brininess and then the strawberry and the carbiness and the whole thing. It's kind of good.

So you know what, father of imps? Yeah. I'm not going to knock it because I haven't tried it. That's fair. This bears similarities to a delicacy that I grew up eating. Yep, go ahead and say it. Which are, you know what it is. Swedish people?

No, no, no. It is, I don't even know if it has a name you take a little smokies hilscher farms oh yeah into a crock pot with equal parts barbecue sauce and grape jelly oh we did apricot gel jam oh canada apricot jam which i always thought was kind of weird but also not terrible yeah it's good i would eat this the salty with the sweet i mean it it kind of there's a lot of sweet sausages out there in the world that i do good. I would eat this. The salty with the sweet. I mean, it kind of, there's a lot of sweet sausages out there in the world that I do love.

I would absolutely eat this. No problem. You know what I would do? I wouldn't eat it with a bun. It'd be a Lucy. It'd be a Lucy hot dog. Yeah, Lucy. Also, the jalapeno is a good idea.

I think that's, that's the most delicious. Do you think these are fresh jalapenos or do you think they're canned jalapenos? I believe they're pickled. The pickled canned ones?

Pickled canned ones for sure. And he's getting some of the brine in there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I would simmer the hot dog for anywhere between 10 minutes to four hours. That's your problem. You simmer it. You need to, I'm telling you, score it and throw it in the pan.

No, I want, because I want the purple, the food dye from the grape jelly to, or at least the Concord grape juice to seep in. I want to see like a, instead of a smoke ring, or at least the Concord grape juice, to seep in. I want to see, instead of a smoke ring, a grape jelly ring in my cup. Ew, Josh. That's what I'm about. Josh, I'm learning so much about you today, and I really appreciate you. I'm very cultured and worldly. Thank you.

Right. Jesse Grave, period, S, says, Takis dipped in Nutella is actually delicious. Takis. Gail, have you had a taki? Oh, yes. Again, I have a nine-year-old daughter. Oh, fair. Of course.

Who loves a taki. She loves a Flaming Hot Cheeto. She tried to get me to buy these blue takis the other day, and I'm like, absolutely not. I have to have some sort of standard in what I put into your body. Tell her they're not even that good. No, they're not that good. I can't even talk about it.

You know, again, it's kind of the same thing i haven't tried it i love nutella i understand the lure of a talkie i bet yeah front forward uh you know i love you trying to justify this i don't know i mean it's incredible you can say it sounds bad it sounds terrible yeah what i want to know is how he got there in the first place i know so he probably oh they whatever they probably had one of the Nutella with the bread dippers oh that's what happened and then their brains you know you know whenever you have like intrusive thoughts like they were like I don't need these bread sticks

I'm gonna dip a talkie in there and then the intrusive thoughts won and then they typed this to us and we responded yeah we gave it our time and our energy yeah you don't think they went through multiple different dippers no i want to dip takis and just condensed milk now takis and condensed milk because it's the chocolate that's bothering me on this right i don't like chocolate and acid to me i just don't

like the combo i don't even like chocolate dip strawberries all that much and so that's where the takis are bumping me but you just get the sweet and the creamy on there. Fat. Someone once said fat transmits flavor. You know. Someone. A wise person. We got one more. This one says, question specifically for Gail. Who is the greatest top?

They didn't even know. They didn't know she was going to be on the show. Who, if you had to say there was one top chef contestant, if you put everybody together in one competition who do you think would win and you gotta hurt some feelings here you gotta pick one god that's crazy you gotta pick one because i'm really curious i'm getting hives just thinking about you asking this question i know that is i mean oh god it's really hard okay i'm gonna say something that might be controversial here okay it just

it might be and i have a few opinions i mean there's a lot of people here but let's say if you mean like people ask have asked us a lot like why don't you do a winner circle competition and the main reason is because they're all winners and like this season has a lot of winners but it's international so it's different but the and like this season has a lot of winners but it's international so it's different but the reason that our you know 19 seasons of winners we're not doing one is because unless they all do it like they've already won they don't need why would they risk losing after they've won and they can just like say i've won and walked away but i will say if we put them all together, I'm going to say Stephanie Isard.

Stephanie Isard. Hell yeah. I think maybe. And there's a lot of reasons. Like I could justify a lot of people here. But I'm going to say Steph because she went on after us to win everything. She became a Food Mind Best New Chef. She won a James Beard Award.

Then she won like some Iron Chef gauntlet situation. Then she won some championship other thing. Like she just is a pro heavyweight champion. Wow. And she not only deeply understands because I've now eaten also at all of her restaurants. And she has a million. I mean, she is like an incredibly successful chef and restaurateur. But she inherently understands how we as humans like want to eat and she nourishes that part of

us that is like soulful and interesting and crazy and delicious but she also is like the craziest warrior professional killer fighter human damn with the biggest smile you've ever seen so that's my vote right now. I don't know. I'm making it up but I do believe my own words. Again, Top Chef season 50

that's going to be it. Stephanie Izzard versus the world. I love that. And we got to go to the girl on the goat. I've been. Oh, I'm sorry.

You're cool with mine. I actually haven't been to the LA one so Josh. I'll come too now. Okay, I can come too. No, I want to come too now. We'll make a res.

Tell us when you're in town yeah yeah yeah make it for three make it for three I'm coming I'm done happily again thank you so much

for being on the show everybody March 9th Bravo Top Chef World All Stars in London sounds like an incredible season Gail you got anything else to plug where can people find you

thank you I mean often in my pajamas but also I don't know at Gail Simmons Eats on Instagram, gailsimmons.com. But I'm around. I have a few things up my sleeve this year. So just keep watching. And also, you know, stay tuned in London because we have the greatest time on Top Chef 20. on Top Chef 20. I'm clearing out my Thursdays in the calendar.

And thank you all so much for watching and listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We got new audio-only episodes every Wednesday and then YouTube video drops on Fridays.

And if you want to be featured on Opinions or Like Casseroles, you can hit us up at 833-DOGPOD1. The number again is 833-DOGPOD1. Gail, you got to call

the hotline and leave us a voicemail. I think I have to. I have opinions. Nice. All right, and for more Mythical Kitchen, we're on YouTube. New videos every week. You know the deal. I think I have to. I have opinions. Nice. All right. And for more Mythical Kitchen, we're on YouTube.

New videos every week. You know the deal. See y'all next time.