A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Are Muffins Just Unfrosted Cupcakes?

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

Today, we're asking the question that's been on everyone's mind: Are Muffins Just Unfrosted Cupcakes? To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Hey, did you know that the Muffin Man was maybe a cereal killer that would dangle treats on his strings so he could lure kids and rival pastry chefs back to his home and hit them with a wooden spoon? And that he lived on Drury Lane? Yeah, me neither, but we're not talking about that today. What I want to know is, are muffins unfrosted cupcakes? This is A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich.

What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show where we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Shearer. And I'm your host, Nicole Handizadek. And Nicole, I'm P.O.'d right now. Oh, what else is new? Oh my god, I'm P.O.'d right now. Oh, what else is new? Oh my God, I'm P.O.'d right now. Why is that? Because we've been having the wool pulled over our eyes for years. Why? That people think there's a separation between muffin and cupcake.

Oh my God, of course there is. No, there is no separation. Muffins are merely unfrosted cupcakes. You serve me an unfrosted cupcake that is now inexplicably a breakfast food called a muffin. Stop it. No, it's not. It is a cake in the shape of a cup. I believe that is the bare minimum of cupcake hood. No, I'm sorry. I'm going to have to disagree with you. Why? Why come, Nicole? Why come? I will tell you right now. Have you heard of the creaming method versus the muffin method? Oh, yeah, but there's so, yes, I, please explain the creaming method. Okay,

let me just pull up my document of assistance here. In the creaming method, we cream the fat with the sugar until light and then add the other ingredients. In the muffin method, we mix the liquids and the dry ingredients separately and then stir them together until just combined. You're telling me, Nicole. What? You're telling me that if I cream the fat with the sugar to create it light and fluffily and then put blueberries in that and a nice little streusel topping, maybe a little bit of warm autumnal spice on there, maybe some cinnamon. Then I serve it at a little donut shop

or a little coffee shop for $2.75 and a nice little fancy wrapper. You're telling me that's no longer a blueberry. $2.75 for a fancy wrapper? What? $3.80. How much are you paying for them? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Well, it depends how big. I'm thinking about Simply Coffee in Burbank. Never been. Oh, really great. Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer goes there. Yeah, you told me. Yeah, I talk a lot about Cesar Millan. Yeah, why do you like Cesar?

Do you even have a dog? No, no, no. I don't even enjoy dogs, but I enjoy Cesar Millan. And also I ran into him at an Ashley Home Furniture in Burbank. Wow, you guys are like two lost souls swimming in a fishbowl. Yeah, he was really... Good one, Nicole. That was a good one.

Cesar Millan, if you're listening out there, if you're whispering to Dawn, I think Cesar Millan probably listens to this podcast. You were very nice to the staff of Ashley Home Furniture. Anyways, I'm talking about Simply Coffee, a fantastic coffee shop in Burbank. They make great nitro cold brew. Their muffin's like 275, the petite. But what I'm saying is it doesn't matter the method, right? If you're putting blueberries in there, you're putting streusel on top of it no one knows if the fat was creamed or

not i have never had a streusel topped cupcake i i haven't either but oh no but i'm saying if the the base right i'm saying an unfrosted cupcake is merely a muffin no it's muffins may have streusel toppings on them i think there's a world in which a cupcake could reasonably have a streusel topping on it and i believe those are indistinguishable from each other no i disagree completely the two textures of a cupcake versus a muffin are two totally different textures i feel like because often like sour cream is added to muffins often right there's there's some sort of additional yeah kind of denser but i mean is that not just a denser cupcake because

it can you don't have to say it's a good cupcake that's the thing you don't have to say a muffin is a good cupcake you can just say that it's a dense bad cupcake you know you're also i prefer muffins you're getting me a waiver and i'm sorry i'm sanding my ground mr man no there are two different things a cupcake a cupcake is a is light. It's airy. It has frosting on it. Even an unfrosted cupcake is a farce. It's BS. I don't like it.

You can put some powdered sugar on top or some cocoa powder on top. It needs something on top of it. What about a Tres Leches cupcake? What's that? I don't know, but I really want one. I want a wet cupcake inside a wrapper. You've been reading too many mommy blogs. You've just been reading too many mommy blogs. That is such a mommy blog recipe.

Oh my God, it's a mommy blog recipe that I would make and rate five stars because it sounds, what an utter treat. Yeah, I don't know. There's something about it being in a tiny little petite edible cup that, I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me. They're just two different recipes. It's two different cooking methods. It's two different baking methods.

It's two different cooking methods it's two different baking methods it's two different treats hmm yeah so so so so you think that there is a a density coefficient absolutely there's a density coefficient i don't know what the coefficient is because i don't know what the coefficient is yeah but that's neither here nor there i think coefficient in mathematical terms means thing. I think we can call it a thing. So why did you just say thing? No, but I'm saying there is a point at which a cupcake becomes so dense that it transitions from cupcake hood into muffin hood, which I think this is a common enough occurrence, right?

It's like if a, I don't know, a creme caramel turns eggy enough, it turns into a flan. Maybe. A creme caramel is a flan. Or say, a creme caramel turns eggy enough, it turns into a flan. Maybe. A creme caramel is a flan. Or say, yeah, that's a bad example. I'm trying to think. Creme caramel and flan are the same exact thing. Okay, so it's like if a soup, which again, I do not believe soup exists, but let's play

with the fact that I do today. It's like if a soup reaches a certain thickness and salinity, it becomes a sauce. Right? Tomato soup, you boil it down enough okay it becomes a sauce sure i see that so there has to be a transitional point there it's like the activation energy required to turn water into ice right there is a very specific point when it reaches 32 degrees yes and then it ticks over with this like big rush of activation energy that finally causes the molecules to solidify right there's that transitional point we're saying that a soup has a transitional point of thickness and i would argue probably flavor

and salinity uh-huh that it turns into a sauce that you can no longer eat a whole bowl see i can't i can't agree with you because a cupcake does not turn into a muffin and a muffin does not turn into a cupcake you think they start completely different yeah by the way that you make them yes and that is solely has to do with the creaming. I mean, that's just, no, that's not the sole reason. It's the main reason. It is the start of the creation. It is the creation of the cupcake slash muffin that you're making.

There is intent. There is purpose. Stop laughing at me. No, the messed up thing is that I'm laughing because, like, I think you might be right. Yeah, I think so too. But think about the variety of cakes. I don't want to. There's chiffon cakes. There's Victorian sponges.

Yeah, sure. All this stuff. So many cakes have different methods to them with when you cream the fat with the sugar, when you add the leavening, the speed at which you're supposed to beat it to create different levels of air that are trapped in the batter is different you know all that isn't it reasonable to believe nicole is it not reasonable to believe that a muffin might in say a if you took a muffin batter and you baked that in a cake tin right like a like a cake pan yeah is that just a muffin loaf or like or you know say and say you scone it's a scone one

i don't know what a scone is scone scone it depends where you're from my grandma says my grandma's from south africa but she has a heavily british accent she says scone though not scone oh joshua jelak some scones who says scones i don't know but i think that might be different because anytime my grandma says scone, she's I believe referring to an English muffin. Oh, so Grandma Lily's just wrong. Well, hold on. But if she's English-ish South African. That's a crumpet.

She's like Eastern European Jew in South Africa. An English muffin is just a crumpet. Yeah, but what does she call Why does she call it a scone? I don't know. Maybe they call it that in South Africa. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Anyways that in south africa i don't know yeah maybe anyways uh point is what are you talking about stop running around in circles you know the right answer no but i'm saying you take you take a blueberry muffin batter yeah take out the blueberries blueberries no longer exist just a muffin right and you bake that on like a

sheet pan why would i do that well it doesn't matter that's hypothetical you you had but why would i make but why would i do that? You were concussed. You didn't know where you were. You thought you were making a cake batter. Stupid you. You made a muffin batter. Oh my God. They're so different.

Aren't they? But play with me here. They're not so different. That's like saying... No, they're not so different. That's like saying a puff pastry and a pie crust are two... They have similar methods, similar ingredients. But they're both pastry, right but they're both pastry right they're both pastry yeah just in the same way that you know a muffin batter and a

cupcake batter are both cakes no no you're agreeing with me no no no that's like saying a pancake batter and a cake batter are the same thing oh that okay now we're now you're talking my language yeah yeah yeah see those are both batters but they're not the same thing. Yeah, I could pour pancake batter into a cake tin and I could get some rice and some leavening in it, but it's just a pancake in another vessel. Oh, crap. Yeah, this is where I get got. Yeah, you got it. Because I believe that. Yeah.

Because someone, it was actually an opinion casserole a while ago where someone mentioned that they just like, which I respect this for convenience. someone mentioned that they just like which i respect this for convenience they just pour a bunch of pancake batter in like a loaf pan not a loaf pan uh you know like a like a 9 by 13 like yeah i remember this one i really remember it and they bake it in the bars and then cut it and then they like you know eat it as like a cake sure which one like pretty ingenious way if you're like i'll do that with just eggs bacon and vegetables yeah you stink up the fridge the fridge well i call them protein bars so So I'll take like bacon, cheese, like spinach, mushrooms, and I'll mix that with raw egg, and then I'll bake it off in a giant sheet. I'll do about 25 to 26 eggs worth.

It's a quiche. Crustless quiche. Yeah, but quiche has like, you know, cream into it. There's like a lightness to quiche. There's also like an enjoy- Keto quiche. There's also, yeah. There's like an enjoyability to quiche that I'm lacking in my protein bars. Sounds like a personal problem. You know, like quiche that I'm lacking in my protein bars. Sounds like a personal problem.

You know, like quiche is meant to be like a nice thing. Delightful, dainty. Mine is just meant to get like salty protein into my body. It's just a straight bar of egg. It's just an egg bar. It turns a little bit gray, especially when the mushrooms get in there. What is it? But it's very convenient and it's like reasonably tasty.

It turns gray. But anyways, point is, yeah, you're right. Pancake, I mean, pancake batter is very similar to cake. I suppose the place where I would disagree is that the sugar content is very different. So that's why I don't believe a pancake batter is similar to a cake batter just because the sugar content is so low of traditional pancake batter. Yeah. Which is what is, which is what allows it to cook on direct heat, right?

If a pancake batter has too much sugar in it, have you ever taken like cake batter and tried to like cook it on a pan? Of course, yeah, it burns. It burns, right? It burns immediately. Yeah, it does. Whereas a muffin batter would react

very similarly to a cake batter. It would be similar, but it's not the same. Also, whenever you cook a muffin, you cook it at a two, well- Oh, you're right. Typically with muffins, you cook them at two different temperatures.. Oh, you're right. Typically with muffins, you cook them at two different temperatures. Just with my history of making muffins, you start at a really high heat to get a really nice crust.

And then you bring it down so it can get a really nicely cooked center. Yeah, well, the high heat causes the muffin topping effect, right? Yeah. Well, sometimes it does create that really beautiful rocky mountain surface on it, but it creates a crust almost, and then the center can cook really nicely and evenly. That makes sense. Like a canelé. Similar. Love canelés.

Explain what a canelé is to our listeners. Oh, pass. I don't exactly know what it is. I've never made one. I just really enjoy them. So it's a high sugar, very sweet batter that you put in a mold that has these really beautiful ridges on it. And you cook it at a super, super, super high temperature, like at 500 degrees. And it caramelizes on the outside because it has such high sugar content.

And then the center stays like a little bit air pocket-y, but still kind of gooey and beautiful. And then you pop it out and it's like caramelized on the outside. And the center is like this beautiful custardy batter. But it's totally set and has these little air bubbles in it we used to put a chocolate uh caramel truffles in the center of them when they were still warm talk about the goo yeah it was really good i don't what what gives canelé because it has this almost like spider webby texture it's the temperature i so i think it's a combination of the temperature, the sugar content, and the vessel that it's cooked in. Because it's supposed to be copper, right?

Copper is traditional. Traditionally. It creates this microcosm of everything to go right. And it creates this beautiful texture that you can't get with anything. Same thing with crumpets. Crumpets have those beautiful little holes in there too. And I think that's from the sodium bicarbonate or whatever they put in there. That creates these beautiful pockets of air and these little nooks and crannies that we love in english muffins interesting i do love

me some crumpets yeah i've never had a crumpet oh you know my i used to eat with my grandma but she she called him something else she called him like i got bees boxes you know it's a bees box i don't know dude i grew up with a weird sense of what foods are called that's interesting a bees box probably because i had little holes for the bees to go in. Like something like that, dude. I don't know. That's cute. I would come home from school. I lived with my grandma at the time

and she would be like, oh, Josh, do you want some sausages? And I was like, I got a gallon of some sausages. I was a beefy teen. And she would just microwave up some Hebrew National hot dogs and throw it on top of some mashed potatoes.

A hot dog is a sausage. I know a hot dog is a sausage, but I'm saying there are, you know, like we would differentiate very clearly between a hot dog and a sausage. At I'm saying there are, you know, like we would differentiate very clearly between a hot dog and sausage. At least, you know, from an American perspective. But she's from South Africa.

Yeah, it's just different. Things are different over there. Give Grandma Lily the benefit of the doubt. I am giving Grandma Lily. Her chicken cacciatore is watery. No, I love my grandma. And her tuna dip is fantastic. The secret ingredient is gelatin.

Cream of mushroom soup and gelatin and it's flames, Nicole. It's hot fire flames. Oh my God. Because you need something to eat at granny's parties while the smoked salmon is finishing de-icing on the table. Oh my God. Because it's coming out the freezer because it was bought at the Costco six years ago. Did you say gelatin? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm hot around my neck. Gives it a really lovely mouthfeel. I'm sure it does, but I just can't get over the idea of tuna and gelatin. We should get into why I'm so mad. Nicole, why I'm so mad does, but I just can't get over the idea of tuna and gelatin. We should get into why I'm so mad. Nicole, why I'm so mad. Are you a cupcake guy? No, no, I'm a muffin man. I am the muffin man. I'm not a serial killer

as I established at the top of the show. But no, I am a huge muffin fan. I think the texture is superior, but I hate the fact that we've been bamboozled. We've been absolutely bamboozled into believing that muffins should be a breakfast food because muffins are a dessert and they're a fantastic they're both but i i don't think i think there is this subset of items i'm so mad at you

right now you mean to tell me you eat brand muffins for dessert bro i love brand muffins i love brand muffins and it's not for the health. Do they make you poop good? Yeah. You know, but I love just the kind of like wholesome, weedy flavor of bran. Yeah. And I love that in a muffin. Especially when it's soaked through in sugar.

At nighttime, though? Like after a meal? It's a digestif. It just flushes you. It flushes you. That's what I want. But I think muffins are like the superior version of cupcakes, which is why I'm advocating so strongly for this. Anytime we have an office party and they bring in Sprinkles cupcakes, I wish they'd just bring in Winchell's muffins.

Sprinkles cupcakes. I used to love them. I used to stand at the ATM. I remember. I have been to the Sprinkles ATM. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'm not a big cupcake fan either. I don't like cupcakes or muffins. I like, I have been to the Sprinkles ATM, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'm not a big cupcake fan either.

I don't like cupcakes or muffins. I like a slice of a layer cake. I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A layer, like, with relatively thin

cake layers as well. Yeah. And not thick frosting either. Oh, no, I don't like thick frosting. No, no, no. Yeah, no, buttercream, American buttercream,

which also I believe is called crusting buttercream. Like the boiled cream? No, I don't think it's, I don't think it's good. I think it's just your standard, I think it's your standard buttercream which also i believe is called crusting buttercream like the boiled boiled cream no i don't think it's i don't think i don't think it's good i think it's just your standard i think it's your standard buttercream i don't know i saw someone call it american butter well i think buttercream is something different than you probably it's not just butter and sugar when i think of butter i think butter sugar and have a little like a little bit of milk yeah you know you know the best way to make buttercream is like actually taking like hot syrup and mixing into egg whites and then dropping in butter.

Is that a buttercream or is that a royal? I was raised in the cooking world to call that a buttercream. But other people might not, probably because I learned from people that called it buttercream. Not being a baker is so tough for me. There's like what, like Viennese royal icing? Yeah, there's like Italian meringue and like Swiss and like there's like egg yolk buttercream. I forgot what it's called. But like no one is using.

That's another thing is I love layer cake so much and I love cake baking. I mean, not doing it myself, but I appreciate it so much. But like that skill to me doesn't often get applied to cupcakes. It did for a while, especially in Los Angeles. In Los Angeles, we had Georgetown, we had Sprinkles, we had so many cupcakes. Crumbs? You ever had Crumbs cupcakes?

Oh my God, I was the biggest Crumbs stan ever. I loved it. I'd be like, hey, you got a Sprinkles? I got a Crumbs. It's better. I was such a brat. And then you had someone be like, I go to Suzy Cakes, and you're like, shut up.

Get out of here. Nobody invited you, Suzy! But yeah, no, there was a period of time in LA specifically where there was a huge cupcake boom and I have a feeling the Food Network really, really helped with that with the Cupcake Wars. Oh my god, yeah. And the Cupcake Games and all those silly little Food Network shows. It was bolstered by the

Red Velvet Revolution too. Oh my god, I hate Red Velvet. They bastardized Red Velvet. Yes. Red Velvet is a beautiful light cocoa cake that has a little bit of food coloring. That's what it is. It didn't use to have food coloring. Yeah, I know. Because the cocoa powder would alkalize with the vinegar.

Yeah. I know all about that. But no, I think nowadays Red Velvet has turned into an ugly thing. You know how I knew Red Velvet was done? Because I walked into a grocery store and I saw something that said blue velvet cupcakes oh my god and it was I once complained to a major grocery store chain on Twitter I didn't even complain I just sent them I just sent them like a tweet of a picture of my mouth after eating one of their cupcakes you did because it was there I mean the ratio must have been half cake batter half food dye yeah uh it was unbelievable but here's my thing

we went through the cupcake revolution right where everyone cupcakes were fetishized we fetishized cupcakes for a long time i wish we did the same with muffins i think muffins because they've been put into the breakfast category that they're not getting as much respect as they deserve i think they need to climb out of like the the morning dregs and rise to dessert stardom. Because I think they're a beautiful, like, you know, kind of denser, chewier, crustier, more complex version. Totally. Of a cupcake and less cutesy, right? Just more sort of intense flavor.

I mean, I want to, you know, I want to get out there with like caramelized rhubarb and barberry muffins. You know, give me, throw some obscure berries in there. Why don't you make those for me one time? I don't know how to cook. How many times do I have to tell you? You have a wonderful cooking show on the internet. What are you talking about? You know how to cook.

Maybe I should. Maybe I should get into artisanal muffin baking. I think that would be great. I think that would revive the American spirit on muffins. I think it would. Yeah, start a muffin blog. I don't know. Oh, God.

Blogs? What is this? 2012, Nicole? Cheese and rice. Get out of here. Oh, a muffin TikTok blog. I don't, oh God, blogs? What is this, 2012, Nicole? Okay. Cheese and rice, get out of here. Oh, a muffin TikTok channel. Is that more en vogue for you, Josh? I got an email the other day from the Wix.com support team. That was like, hey, by the way, culinarybrodown.net is officially expired.

And I was like, oh God, I still had a website? Yeah, I got that from GoDaddy a while ago. I'm like, I'm not renewing it. What was anymore oh tell us your website oh it's probably weird wasn't it i don't want to tell you i'm scared fanfic was it i'm not saying anything about anything anymore let's go back to talking about muffin what else makes me mad what the term quick bread. Why? B. Why are you on one today? Why? This was the most exasperated I've ever seen Nicole. It was like a damsel fainting in a silent movie with the hand on the head.

Why? Quick bread? Because the split between muffin and cupcake, what it really comes down to is the split between cake and quick bread. Right? So quick bread is any bread that is leavened using you're talking about sodium bicarbonate or baking soda any quick leavener as opposed to like a yeast fermented bread everything from wonder bread to like a sourdough

loaf to a baguette um even down to donuts or yeast donuts they're all made with yeast and that gives a signature sort of chew texture any of these more sort of like crumbly uh moist breads thinking irish soda bread beer bread uh zucchini bread pumpkin bread all that stuff they're all put in the category of quick bread right so that's you know with the baking powder baking soda but to me there's such a huge difference between like an irish soda bread and like say uh banana nut bread. Banana nut bread, that's muffin batter which I still... Banana bread is cake. Okay, so you agree that banana bread is cake. Of course.

It's not a muffin batter. It's cake. It's very close. It's cake. You don't think you take a banana bread batter and put that into a cupcake tin aka a muffin tin because they are one and the same. Put a little wrapper on it. Maybe put some chopped walnuts in there

why do I need to put walnuts in there you don't need to put walnuts I enjoy walnuts I would like walnuts I want to put the walnuts in there you don't like walnuts

in banana bread no obstacle to the banana bread tell me why it's an obstacle just gets in the way of the banana flavor I find them complimentary

I might even put some walnut oil in there ew what infuse the flavor throughout no no no you're extra you're extra right. I feel like those sort of phenolic tones

would kind of overlap and be nice. Maybe a little bit of chocolate chips. If I'm feeling antsy. You don't think that you put that in a muffin tin and that bakes into a perfect muffin? It depends on my bake. It does, right? It depends on, I mean, so many people, there's so many different recipes for banana bread and all that. Ditto

for zucchini bread, but they have such a high sugar content, right? They do. So it separates. They're not like a quick bread in the sense of a sugar bread. Whatever. So they're a cake. But then you put that into a cup mold. That's a cupcake.

But you think like in a blind taste test, someone makes you a banana nut muffin versus walnuts that were put into a banana bread recipe into a cupcake mold and baked. You think you could have 10 different people make a banana bread recipe into a cupcake mold and baked you think you could have 10 different people make this banana bread cooked in a cupcake tin uh-huh and then 10 different people cook a banana muffin in a muffin tin and you shuffle them around how many of them could you guess are the muffins versus the cake are they blindfolded yes you're no you're not blindfolded you can see them you can see them screw it you can see them okay but imagine these are 10 people okay Okay. What?

Okay. What are the demographics? Okay. Well, random. So like the way you select a jury, you're out there, you're being like, uh, this is a 34 year old school teacher from Bend, Oregon. You know, she drives a Subaru. She really enjoys baking on the weekends.

This is 68 year old grandmother, you know, from, from, from Portsmouth. I don't even know what state that's in. What are you talking about? Is that in Rhode Island? I don't know i don't know maybe port she's from bangor maine okay 68 year old grandma from bangor maine she has a garden in the backyard yeah yeah yeah she's been baking cupcakes for 61 years since she was seven years old based on the why why cupcakes well but she recently got into baking muffins and you have to guess which one this is that she baked okay honestly honestly no they look different and if i put a muffin and a cupcake side by side you would know which one's the muffin no yes you would well it depends have you seen the top of a muffin compared to the top of a cup

but you're talking about like a perfect muffin you're talking about a coffee shop muffin that is a perfect muffin top not all muffins have a perfect muffin top you know i wish they did i sure wish they did what you laugh at perfect muffin top yes i got a hard muffin top you know i wish they did i sure wish they did what did you laugh at perfect muffin top yes i got a hard muffin top going right now because we're just coming out of lunch i always have i drank i drank a solid pint of doll um and i got this hot lentil liquid bubbling in my tummy and i'm feeling great it was delicious josh ordered all of the day and i think he resents me for it. I don't resent. I absolutely love doll. Was it a great choice right before a podcast to drink a pint of lentils?

No. I could have eaten a normal portion like a normal person. Yeah, me too. But I did not, and so that's why I got my red up, and that's why I'm all mad about quick breads. Listen, Josh, I know where you're coming from, and I'm really trying to empathize with what you're trying to say, but unfortunately, you're just wrong. I think- I don't know how else to tell you i think there's something to method and intent being very important to the statehood of a dish

sure right it's like it's the reason you know say a souffle and an omelet have the same ingredients but they're very different dishes based on intent and methodology you know what i mean i agree with you one million percent it's all about eggs all very different and they both have different purposes i think the purposes for a muffin and a cupcake are very muddled and that's where i'm getting to me there's no reason that a slightly denser crustier cupcake should be eaten in the morning and then one should be eaten at night i think that's very silly and i don't agree, and that's what I'm mad about. I want freedom. I want freedom for all people to be able to eat the foods that they want to eat at any point in the day.

I think they should be able to buy fresh muffins at 8 p.m. at night. I think they should bake muffins all throughout the day. I'm sick of getting to the coffee shop, you know, at 7 p.m. as it's closing, and, like, we're all out of muffins. But meanwhile, the cupcake shop down the street, Nicole, they're booming. I'm sorry, Josh. They're booming. I'm so sorry, Josh. We feed Pop-Tarts to children. Josh, I'm so sorry. For breakfast. Oh, I'm really sorry. I feel like this is

really... A Pop-Tart is not a... It's a dessert. Tart is a French word for pie. You're right. You're right. Nicole, it's... I know. I know. But it's a toaster. It's hard, but you have to realize... Toaster strudel. I know, you keep just saying words now. Toaster strudel's a dessert. Yeah, and I can say ho-hos or something.

I don't know. What about Swiss rolls? Little hostess cakes. You know, like, come on. You know, what am I talking about? Come on, Nicole. Josh, stop. You need to grow up and you need to realize that a cupcake and muffin are two very different things.

Although they're cousins, they are from different families and they're adopted and they love each other. Okay? That's a heck of a way to win an argument just go muffins aren't cupcakes grow up grow up josh muffins aren't cupcakes they're not they're so different they're two literal different things what if i put frosting on muffin no you've gone too far no you've just frosted a muffin i think i've learned something today nicole you've never had a muffin with icing on the top i don't think have you had a muffin with icing yeah yeah it was uh oh is that uh cupcake

daughter boom uh no no i the thing where you kind of got me was like uh you know the pie crust versus puff pastry and so many pastries are so similar but they got different names right a queen of mon a croissant yeah they're the same thing they got different names they're slightly different shapes even though a crappy croissant might be gnarled and look a bit like a queen of mon you know an ornate queen of mon might be folded in such a way that it could be confused for a croissant but they're different and i have to honor the artisan who made that yep you can't put strudel in a toaster. What? How do you put strudel in a toaster? Still mad about that. Cereal is a dessert.

Cereal is a dessert. I want to take Cocoa Krispies. No, Maggie, I'm not wrapping up. I'm not. There's a sign in the window that says wrap. What happens if you take Cocoa Krispies cereal and you make a risotto with them? You're a disturbed human being. Go to the doctor.

I don't know what else to tell you. I think you win. We don't have to end this podcast with a win. There's no winning or losing. It's just realizing when you're wrong. And that's what I want you to do, Josh. You and I, listen, when we don't agree, we both lose. Remember that.

Yeah. We are one unified force. One team, one dream. Yeah, you're just wrong right now. All right, Nicole, we've heard what you and I have to say. Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the internet. It's time for a segment we call... Opinions are like castle balls!

Nicole was either miming or playing on-ball defense with her hands while she did that. I couldn't tell if you were trying to get out of a box or if you were guarding the passing lanes on the perimeter. I don't even think you know what the second thing means. What was it? Guarding the perimeter? Guarding the passing lanes on the perimeter. Someone's trying to swing to a flashing three, Nicole. Is that a driving reference? It's basketball to someone's trying to swing someone's trying to swing to a flashing three nicole you're driving it's basketball it's basketball i don't know all right first first up we got at jeff mccourtney actual best frozen pizza we must have proclaimed that there

was a best frozen pizza i still believe it is red baron or wild mike's costco oh yeah costco actual best frozen pizza freshetta gluten-free four cheese super crisp crust i don't believe either of us have ever had freshetta gluten-free never never but the reason we wanted to do this and not gloss over it is because i had been pronouncing that freschetta like giada di laurentis i had been saying freschetta so it's freshetta it's but it's pronounced fresh how do you know that? In commercials, they say freschetta. Okay. But I will say one time I went to the Bucca di Beppo,

the most authentic Italian restaurant in all of America. Okay. Honestly, one of those chain Italian restaurants I really love. And like, I didn't go Giada on it. I didn't go bruschetta. I was just like, hey, can I get the bruschetta? And this server goes, did you mean bruschetta? And I was like, I'm at a crossroads right now where I don't want to make it a thing.

I just, they have a really lovely bruschetta there and I just wanted it. But I was like, if I say, yes, I meant bruschetta, I would have felt, you know, like a phony. Okay. You know, just being like, I want your approval. Like, oh my God. Yeah. I'm such an idiot people please but i certainly didn't want her to go away from that thinking like oh this a-hole you know was trying to jada me and go bruschetta um so anyways i just said like yeah i met bruschetta and then stared at her and then we got it anyways this is an awkward

standoff and that's the reason i want to talk about this opinion oh okay well uh this opinion is good okay i have nothing else to say bb eilish 24 says bb eilish bb this is billy eilish billy eilish come on the podcast people need to stop putting raisins in everything i love raisins but pies salad etc don't need raisins i love rais raisins in things, but like some things, not all things, like in my cereal, great. In a chicken curry salad, really, really good.

Just a handful. Just raisins plus my mouth equals pretty good. Buying raisins is weird, right? We can agree on that. You don't buy raisins, they're just in your pantry, right? Yeah, they're just there. No one's ever bought raisins, but there's always too much of them. That's so true. My cooking has existed with raisins. And so I have at home, this just like, you know, probably a pound box of golden raisins, which

each large handful is probably like less than an ounce. So there's just so much of it. And so I've actually been tossing raisins. I mean, raisins are pretty commonly used i mean well fruit and you know savory dishes is like pretty common in a lot of parts of the world i'm thinking morocco i'm thinking like persian yeah and so i've just been tossing raisins into random stews that are pretty heavily spiced generally got some sort of you know tomato component into it freaking lovely yeah oh my god you get like a really like warm warm spice plus some heat in there some raisins i'm a huge fan i like raisins and coleslaw okay um which is an unpopular opinion yeah yeah yeah liking coleslaw is an unpopular oh i love

coleslaw but putting raisins in it is like doubly bad here's you want to You want a weird opinion? Is coleslaw a salad? Coleslaw's a soup. KFC coleslaw is technically a gazpacho. Yes. It's a cold cabbage soup. Speaking of which, you should read the next question. Oh. At Hughes Clan Cosplay, pickle relish is just a gazpacho. Yeah.

It's like a condensed gazpacho. Condensed, yes. It's condensed. You take pickle relishish you combine it with equal parts water and you do get a very strangely flavored pickle gazpacho yeah correct i i do not enjoy um pickle relish like prepared pickle relish i do i think i generally when i want pickles i don't go sweet i dig on some bread and butter pickles once in a while uh but often like say you're making a thousand island fresh chopped pickles versus just prepared pickle relish world of difference i really really love the flavor of relish sometimes like in a tuna salad it's really really good that's very nostalgic for me on a hot dog it's pretty good i don't like it

on my burgers though but a little bit of relish you know every now and then makes you feel good that's the thing i i do not enjoy a fat burger very much. They are not my preference burger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they put relish and mustard on their hamburgers by default. You can ask for it to not be there. Yeah. But it's the fact that they do it by default that gets me to not trust them.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Lobo 13th says mayo on a sausage and pepper grinder with heavy maws is bomb. Yeah, it sounds pretty bomb i kind of want to eat that yeah that's awesome i am i also really enjoy mayo on a cheesesteak especially if you're using provolone on there so something like having like having like a like a motz on a sandwich like that it doesn't it's not a self-saucing cheese some cheeses that have a high enough like fat content right they're like self-saucing in a way that's such an interesting take to call cheese self-saucing right some of it is i mean even like

a medium cheddar is it almost acts as a sauce with the amount of moisture that's coming from it but something like a mozz or if you're using a provolone on a cheesesteak like use white american and cheesesteak that emulsifies with the beef fat to create its own delicious sauce yeah but if you're using provolone right too low moisture too much protein you don't get that so i like to take a little schmear of mayonnaise. And it almost like gives the illusion of like a cheese whiz kind of. But you get all that flavor from the provolone. So this is kind of in that same vein.

And I really love that. People need to be more comfortable with hot mayonnaise. I hate that you said that so much. But yeah, hot mayo is not that bad. People are just have aversions to weird things. Yeah, blowtorched mayo. Well, that's a little bit of a mistake. I mean, the way they do it on like a dynamite roll. Oh, well, oh, well, well, well,

well, uh, when you say it like, okay, dynamite rolls? Okay, I love dynamite rolls. Dynamite rolls are my favorite thing at a sushi place. Explain what a dynamite roll is, because people might not know. So, a dynamite roll is just, I think it's a California roll, maybe with avocado, sometimes not, and then it's just little dollops of spicy mayo on it sometimes you can put scallops on it but sometimes i just like the spicy mayo and then they broil it

yeah they broil it and it's the mayonnaise cooks and gets all fudgy yeah but they put spicy mayo on it i love spicy mayo if you listen to this podcast you know how much i love spicy mayo. If you listen to this podcast, you know how much I love spicy mayo. So spicy mayo, spicy mayo that has been blow-torched and put on sushi that's hot and it's just real, real good. Yeah, you get the hot mayonnaise and the cold California roll. God, that's so good. We're such epicureans.

Alright, at Curly underscore Caps, Fuego Takis dipped in vanilla ice cream is the best snack ever. I've heard of people doing this with hot Cheetos. I think Takis would work better than hot Cheetos, though. Yeah, it does because it has a higher acid and a lower garlic. Cheese component. Yeah, lower cheese, garlic, onion component.

Yeah, there's like the main difference between Takis Fuego's or the main difference between Fuego Takis and Flamin' Hot Cheetos is that Flamin' Hot Cheetos have more like garlic, onion, cheese. Yeah, exactly. Takis are just pure acid Cheetos have more like garlic onion cheese. Yeah. Takis are just pure acid heat spice chili. Good. Good. That works with ice cream. The toasted corn works really well with ice cream. So good. This sounds very good.

I've never done it. I don't know what I'm doing. Paceroo says mac and cheese is best eaten with avocado and Valentino sauce. You probably mean Valentina hot sauce. Yeah. I love Valentina. The first time I was introduced to Valentina when I was 20 years old and my ex-boyfriend made me breakfast tacos.

So Valentina is a good breakfast hot sauce. It's a really good breakfast hot sauce. It's kind of like Tapatio adjacent for me. It is really good on breakfast tacos and breakfast burritos. I love it. And you know, if you're eating mac and cheese with avocado and Valentina, you're probably a good person. Yeah. Yeah. Moral person love you uh come to my house it's like you see someone put like a poached egg into into like uh instant ramen and you're just like yeah yeah

you're my people you're my people yeah this is what i'm listening like yeah you're my yeah you're my you're our people you're our people agree with that call us let's hang out at j monahan 0516 flavor blasted goldfish and sriracha hit different on top of any stove stove top mac and cheese i love topping stove because i i do enjoy i like a good like hearty baked mac and cheese sure cheese gets super caramelized and you get that that brick factor yeah with the stretchy cheese i also do love just like a creamy stoveove top mac and cheese I'm a stove top girl Yeah I think so I don't know why I mean they both

Have their place I can't personally recreate Mac and cheese baked as well as I can as other people can I can make stove top mac and cheese with the best Of them I think I agree with that But I cannot make baked mac and cheese the way other people can And I'm not as talented and I'm not as deft at that form of

cooking it is it's like it's like alchemy i followed people's recipes too and i had their their baked mac and cheese like mine mine doesn't come out the right way like the kitchenistas yeah yeah oh my kitchenista mac and cheese recipe her baked mac and cheese recipe oh my god probably the best recipe on the internet i think it's i think it's the most amazing recipe and she really puts a lot of tender loving care in her cooking so i tried to do that one time and i just i it was delicious and it was good but i just didn't look like your pictures it didn't and she just needs to make it for me and send it to me so i can try it we should get angela davis uh she she is like one of the best recipe writers on the internet, if not my personal favorite. I made her roasted mango pie.

Holy crap. Oh my gosh, that sounds next level. Unbelievable. Everyone, yeah, go check out at the Kitcheneesta on Twitter. Yes, please do. Buy her e-books. She rules. She really does.

Oh yeah, goldfish are tight. Oh, this. Okay, so you know how I said the last person was like my people? This I don't really. I actually think this is more my people than the avocado and Valentina. Maybe this is where we differ Josh. This is where we differ. Because I

understand this because I like the creaminess of stovetop but I also want a little bit of crunch and then I put hot sauce on 90% of foods that I'm eating and sriracha I think is a nice mac and cheese hot sauce because you don't get the acid that may like obstruct I still like acid on mac and cheese but like you know because you don't get the acid that may like obstruct i still like acid on on mac and cheese sure uh but like you know sometimes you don't want that i want something

a little bit more ketchupy a little bit more sugar something kind of nostalgic for me that's sriracha this is my people jay monahan come hang out i'll call you nicole's gonna avoid you and i'm sorry no i'll pick up the phone jill johnson 277 says i eat dill pickle seasoning for popcorn straight. Lick my finger, dip in the powder, and eat it. Weird? You know, you shouldn't ask us if what you do is weird. Yeah, we're not good barometers for that. We're weird.

We have our weird quirks and quips with food, so. Well, I don't think we're weird. I think we're deceptively worldly and also, like, you know, accepting. Because when I hear I eat dill pickle seasoning straight my mind immediately goes to uh lucas powder yeah lucas powder like tamarind yeah i mean it's literally just a delicious acidic you know salty sweet powder yeah that you eat and it's delicious it's like a pixie stick with you know some more like panache to it yeah for sure and so i don't think this is weird at all i think that's really fun occasionally if i want to feel something i'll take some tahini and let's put some tahini in the palm of

my hand give it a little lick yeah yeah i don't think this is weird at all i think if it works for you it works for you absolutely yeah i have some dill pickle seasoning i just bought it's literally in the kitchen so i think i'm gonna do a little finger dip pretty soon do it i want to try it uh at cats at it again cat what did what did you do? You're at it again. Taco Bell tacos are only good if you sub for chicken. I don't know what that quote unquote beef is made of, but it is whack. That beef, it is actually made. Give at least a can of worms, Kat.

You are at it again. Kat, if you simply do a Google search for Taco Bell beef, you'll be directed to a Taco Bell website that breaks down every single ingredient of what is in their beef because they were hit with a spurious lawsuit that claimed that their beef was only 34% beef by weight when in fact it was 88%, which launched several people into a tirade saying, you know, Taco Bell, what is the last 12%? They had to make a website disclosing what the last 12% is. And it's things that are crazy like spices and water and a little bit of starch like oatmeal to get the spices to bind with the beef and the water even better. So it is pure beef. It's like a braise.

It's like a bolognese. It's like a ragu. It's like a picadillo. Taco Bell beef to me is like a very, very well-seasoned, delicious Mexican-American bolognese. And I am a huge fan uh their chicken on the other hand their shredded chicken i thought was their best chicken iteration their grilled chicken i actually used to work at a catering company at ucla that we like feed all the athletes but restaurants that are on college campuses and in airports are like contracted out third parties yes so for some reason we shared the commissary kitchen with taco bell

and we would serve these large sacks of Taco Bell chicken. Okay, nice. And it's coming, you know, pre-chopped with the fake grill marks on it. And to me, it just has this very kind of weird acidic saline solution soaked into it that I'm not the biggest fan of. Their shredded chicken was solid, but to me, by far the best meat option at Taco Bell is their beef. I'm a beans girl. Oh, yeah. Oh, their beans are fire, too. I like soupy beans. Taco Bell got great beef. I'm a beans girl. Oh, yeah. Oh, their beans are fire, too.

I like soupy beans. Taco Bell got great soupy beans. Yeah, I just, I sometimes get their beef, but most of the time I'm getting their beans. But they're relatively similar. If you really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are very similar textures and flavors. It's a nice flavor paste.

Yeah. And that's what I want. Sometimes I just like my beans. No, totally fair. Yeah. No beef sub beans. Shout out to Kush Bouchard, friend of the show. And my best friend, Deep.

Both bonded over the no beef sub beans. Shout out to Kushbusha, friend of the show. And my best friend Deep. Both bonded over the no beef sub beans. And on that note, thank you for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. If you want to hear more from us here in the Mythical Kitchen, we got new episodes for you every Wednesday. If you want to be featured on Opinions or Like Casseroles, you can hit us up on Twitter at MythicalChef or in Hindi Zada with the hashtag OpinionCasserole. And for more Mythical Kitchen, check us out on YouTube

where we launch new videos every week. And of course, if you want to share pictures of your dishes, you can hit us up And for more Mythical Kitchen, check us out on YouTube where we launch new videos every week. And of course, if you want to share pictures of your dishes, you can hit us up on Instagram at mythicalkitchen. We, I'll see, I'll see it here. I'll see you in another time. you