A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Do Bay Leaves Do Anything?

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

Does it really matter that you don't have bay leaves because... do bay leaves even do anything?? To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. There are three certainties in life. Death, taxes, and a recipe that inexplicably calls for bay leaves and you never have bay leaves. Does it really matter that you don't have bay leaves? Because do bay leaves even do anything? This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what?

That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show where we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Ayer. And I'm your host, Nicole Hendizadeh.

Nicole, today we're talking about one of the most ubiquitous ingredients in all recipes, one of the most controversial. I know. Do you know what I hate? What do you hate? When bae leaves. I don't get it. What? You hate bae leaves i don't get it you hate bae leaves no you and bae bae bae the laurel bae tree uh that that creates it's a colloquial term made popular by the internet bacon and egg bae no before anyone else is that actually

what bae stands for it's before anyone else yeah but it's also a way to say babe it's short for babe it's both that's one of those things I don't agree with. Like who you ask. Anyways, point is, we're talking about do bae leaves actually do anything? Because so many people have hit us up asking like, if I don't have a bae leaf, can I still make this recipe? Oh, man. Well, I think bae leaves do something. They do some things well.

Wrong. No, no. It's a conspiracy from Big Leaf, a division of Monsanto. The Bayleaves are solely there because they are surveillance devices of birds

which are actually spies for the government. Josh, do not start with the bird spy government talk. This is not the place North America is. Oh, this whole podcast

is about birds spies for the government. I don't want it. Have you ever seen a bird's heartbeat? I've never held a bird. I'm kind of low-key scared of birds

a little bit. There was a period of time when I was super scared of birds and then one time I just, this is what I did. I like forced myself

to be okay with birds so I sat down on a bench with bread and I fed birds to get over it. I'm a big fan of like, what is it called? Exposure therapy?

I give myself so much exposure therapy. I have no idea. Okay, but no. Maggie, bring in the birds. Oh man. Okay, stop stop bay leaves do something i know this because i have okay i personally have baked and cooked and done multiple things with bay leaves it does not make or break a recipe unless the recipe calls in the title bay leaf blank or blank with bay leaves you know what i'm saying yes no i do know what you're

saying and this is that's closer to my true feeling about bay leaves i do believe they do something they simply wouldn't exist if they don't do anything they have a point they've existed for for thousands of years in in recipes i mean you can go back to ancient roman recipes uh and i mean they are used ubiquitously in so many cultures. I love making Filipino stews at home. You know, I love my apretada, my calderata. Sure you do. I love my guinatong.

Big fan of chicken adobo. Is guinatong the blood one? No, no, no. That's dinuguan. Dinuguan, sorry. No, guinatong. Oh, it's a type. It's like a fish in turmeric.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh my God, it's okay. That's really good. Anyways, my favorite use of bay leaves is in chicken adobo. Okay. And the reason, and I will chalk it full of bay leaves. I mean, I'll probably add, you know, maybe six if I'm making a couple pounds of chicken in there.

But the reason I love bay leaves and chicken adobo specifically is because it's a very simple dish. It's vinegar. It's soy. I do garlic, onions, and peppercorn. Delicious. So, like, there are only, like like four kind of flavor components, right? You have like acid, you have umami, and then the actual aromatics, garlic, onion, peppercorn, bay leaf.

So I think the bay leaves will shine. Not only do they do something, but they will shine in recipes that don't have a ton of ingredients. Like if there's mirepoix in a recipe, for people that don't know what mirepoix is, it's a combination of carrots, onions, celery. If a recipe calls for mirepoix, do you think a bay leaf is necessary? I don't think so. But a recipe that's calling for mirepoix is probably also calling for other things

that are similar to bay leaf. So I guess this is why I think people don't think bay leaves do anything. It's because typically if somebody is making, say like a beef stew recipe, right? It'll be like, throw one bay leaf in there amidst thyme, amidst rosemary, amidst oregano. A bouquet garni, if you will. Exactly, exactly.

And so you have one bay leaf competing against like 90 ingredients in five pounds of beef, Chuck. No, you're not going to taste it. Yeah. And if you did a side by side blind taste test of beef stew with a bay leaf and without i don't think anyone could actually taste the difference in most recipes there are some people who argue uh i've heard people say that bay leaf quote rounds flavors interesting okay which to me i don't know i i don't believe that there is like alchemy in cooking if that makes sense you don't i think i think so okay i say i'll believe so i I'll believe in let's call it

traditional wisdom as opposed to alchemy right if somebody has been putting a bay leaf in a recipe for 300 years and that recipe

has been dating back from their grandma and their grandma's grandma and their grandma came from the Azores small island chain off of Portugal

I don't know why I went there I dated an Azorean girl in college she was we should go to the Azores that'd be chill his point is if you've been doing that for like generations and generations i i think there is valuable sort of wisdom in that sure however i don't think that people typically have the correct explanation for why people do things right think about the way when people say like um soak your your livers in milk and

people have all these explanations as to why uh the milk purifies the milk purifies that it draws out impurities and then you go what impurities can you name one and they go ah run so you think bay leaves are an old wives tale no okay i don't i think i think bay leaves add a subtle, fragrant, floral flavor that is a freaking delight. And I think there are recipes where it can truly stand out. At worst, it doesn't do anything and you've wasted three cents on a bay leaf. Sure, that's my mentality too. Yeah, so I think it's somewhat of like an old wives tale. I think a lot of like this add a single bay leaf can be just sort of for tradition's sake.

And in a blind taste test, people wouldn't taste. And again, I'm talking about the one bay leaf recipes. Because that's what they all are. That's like, unless you're really making bay leaf the star, there are these things where there's one bay leaf competing against a million ingredients. And you're not going to taste that. And you can absolutely omit the bay leaf in that. Sure. Again, I don't think it makes or breaks a recipe.

But Mindy made an amazing point that my own mother also follows where she says, my mom always keeps a plastic bag of bay leaves in the kitchen. She throws those things in almost every single Filipino dish. She says it helps get rid of gaminess in some meats and adds more savory flavor to stews and soups. And I agree with that because my mom does the same thing. Well, in my culture, what we do with our meat whenever we're making stews and stews stews and soups and i agree with that because my mom does the same thing well in my culture what we do with our meat whenever we're making stews is first we cook the meat in water and salt we first we put salt on it then we put water and then we might add a bay leaf or an onion do you do you drain the water so you're like you're blanching so that we blanch our meat in our culture that's what gets to me that's what gets rid of the gaminess, not necessarily the belief.

This is what I'm talking about with like there is tradition, and a lot of people might not know the exact science behind that tradition. Going back to the liver and milk thing, people say it draws out the impurities. I think it was Harold McGee did a really good study of this, and what he found out that milk does to liver, it makes it taste like milk. That's it. There's no alchemy. Really? And people are like, milk is a good taste liver, it makes it taste like milk. That's it. There's no alchemy. Really?

And people are like, milk is a good taste, and it doesn't taste like liver. Liver has an incredibly gamey, metallic funk. I love it too, but you soak it in milk, the liver physically absorbs some of the milk, and it makes it taste like milk. Because it's so porous. Yeah, it's not drawing out impurities. It's adding milk flavor, which is a good flavor. We should do it with beer.

I want to do beer-soaked livers. Why? And I want to fry them. Why? I don't know. I want my liver to taste like beer. I guess. I'd do that, too.

You know how people say you're pickling your liver with alcohol? You should actually do that? I actually want to pickle it with beer. A physical? It'd be like a PSA, like an anti-binge-drinking PSA. Like, this is your chicken liver soaked in milk. This is your chicken liver soaked in Estrella Jalisco. I don't know why I immediately went to Estrella Jalisco.

I think you must be craving one. I think I drank a bunch of Mexican beer on 4th of July. That makes sense. A very American thing to do. Of course. And I had a great time. Best beer. What about recipes that like exemplify, like they're just like pure bay leaf.

So when I was in culinary school, one of the first baking recipes that we learned was a bay leaf Bundt cake that I made in school. Is that a David Liebowitz recipe? It is. Oh, my God. We were just talking about how we're such crappy food nerds the other day. Yeah. What was the joke you made? The fact that we can name the blogger.

What was the joke you made that just made me so happy to be there? Yeah. Let's run back this inside joke and alienate half our audience. Let's do it. We're going to do it, Maggie. All right. So we were shooting a tiktok and i made a breakfast ramen and i was helping clean up because i'm a very nice boy yes and i

poured uh i strained off the liquid so we didn't just pour liquid in our trash can and then there was a bunch of ramen sitting in the strainer and i said look look nicole now it's breakfast mazaman which of course is is Japanese dry ramen in a bowl. And Nicole and I, and Trevor and V didn't get it because they're not, like, they're great cooks and no food. But they're not the biggest dorks in the world like you and I. Yeah, correct. We made, like, the equivalent of, like, a foodie dad joke. Yeah.

It was like those chemistry jokes. Yeah. That was like a food chemistry joke. Like, what did the glucose say to the nitrous oxide? Helium. Helium. Helium. And I'm like, I don't know. I failed chem.

Never took chem. Never got there. Only environmental science. That was my peak. All I know is one of the sugars spells out nacho. Salt is knuckle. Okay. Back to this bay leaf bundt cake recipe.

I was the biggest, like, anti-bay leaf person. Like, what's the point? When I tried this recipe, Bundt cake recipe. I was the biggest like anti-bay leaf person. I'm like, what's the point? When I tried this recipe, it all made sense. The bay leaves were perched on top. They were baked within the Bundt cake. When you flipped it over. You left the bay leaves in the Bundt cake? You're supposed to leave them.

You're supposed to put them on the top. Like, well, when you flip it over, it's on the top. And they're baked in and it has this beautiful perfumey flavor. You enhance it with orange peel. And it just made sense. It's like, this is a flavor i've never experienced before because like you said bay leaf is in a it's like an adjacent addition it's like not the most important flavor in a stew in a more complex dish but in this recipe where it really exemplified the flavor of bay i was like oh my gosh this is a trip this is a flavor it's kind of life-changing yeah it's

like this is a flavor that exists holy of life-changing yeah it's like this is a flavor that exists holy cannoli have you ever tried fresh bay leaves before yeah what do you do with it i've never done and i see it and i buy it and i keep it in my fridge for like weeks i never use it i i mean to me fresh bay has a much more pleasant flavor i feel like a lot of the bay leaves this is another problem that people are getting just kind of dried in stores i mean sometimes drying can't intensify flavors, et cetera. But to me, it doesn't intensify it. It changes.

Turkish bay leaves are like really famous, no? Yeah, they are. Yeah, there's like California Bay and then Turkish Bay is really big. Thing I did with fresh bay leaves, Nicole, and this is one of those life-changing little recipes. Got the idea from Mercedes Saucedo of Casa Coco ice cream, the ice cream that I've been obsessed with. Oh, yeah. Amazing. So she,

she made a, a salted caramel bay leaf ice cream and you really like, you get the salt and the caramel and then you're just like whacked in the face with this beautiful floral flavor. And she is so good at balancing the floral. She'll throw like Oha Santa and other herbs into the ice cream and it just like balances and rounds, not for any like alchemical reaction, but just simply for the fact that there's another flavor that you don't normally expect

that's like kind of humming in the background as a little baseline. So I made just a straight fresh bay leaf ice cream, just sweet cream, bay leaf, steep the bay leaves, gently heated them, strained it off, made an ice cream base. It's delicious. And I also had that at Union restaurant in Pasadena.

Oh, wow. I love Union. Shout out to Union for having one of the best meatballs of my life. Best collards of my life. And yeah, they just made this bay leaf ice cream. And like I was talking about, I mean, as much as I crapped on bay leaves earlier saying they're useless, they are a freaking beautiful flavor. One of the best coolest ingredients

when you let them shine there's another dessert they take bay leaves i can't remember where i saw this it might be a spanish well that oh that'd be nice was that was that it i saw no they uh actually dip bay leaves into like a kind of donut batter and then fry them oh and you just scrape the donut batter off of your teeth and you're left with this kind of Oh my God. lightly menthol sort of flavor, and it's freaking gorgeous, man. Is this like a- Bay leaves are beautiful.

Is this like an El Bulli or something? Oh yes, I've been to El Bulli, the $9 million a person restaurant that may have closed. That sounds like something that would be at like a astronomical restaurant like that. So I think what we've gathered

is that bay leaf really shines in desserts, huh? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think bay leaf shines in desserts probably because there's, there's fewer ingredients to like really. Maybe sugar helps me, the sugar and the vanillas and the oranges help. I think so. Help raise the flavor instead of mute it. If you were to use like basil or thyme or garlic.

Yeah. I think, I think what it is is that there's so few herbs that people use in dessert. Like typically, I mean, I know I've had, you know, lemon, thyme, verbena, I think what it is is that there's so few herbs that people use in dessert. Like typically, I mean, I know I've had, you know, lemon, thyme, verbena, and tarragon, yada, yada. But I think there's so few herbs that people use in dessert.

So it's a more unexpected flavor. Yeah, agreed. But also where it really shines in simplicity, and shout out to Angela Davis, the kitchenista. Oh, she's the best. Fantastic recipe developer,

food blogger. Her recipes have never steered me wrong. Oh God, that roasted mango pie. Sorry, I'm going to get distracted. She was talking about bay leaves recently on Twitter saying, if you want to taste the difference between bay leaves, just make a pot of rice and then make a pot of rice with a couple bay leaves thrown in.

And I've had that before. I've actually had rice that was aged with bay leaves and then cooked with bay leaves. And it's just delightful and fragrant she she recommended the same with grits oh wow and so yeah i mean think about um anytime you add one ingredient to rice which like one of my favorite things is jeera rice uh from from india sure the toasted cumin seeds yeah oh my god it just it elevates the rice i mean rice is a vessel for flavor and if you just add one ingredient to that, you're going to taste it so, so, so much. As opposed to like, you know, I don't know, adding a bay leaf to your buffalo chicken dip.

Which is probably delicious. I don't know why you would add a bay leaf to buffalo chicken dip. Add a bay leaf to everything, Nicole. Oh my gosh. Because the government needs to watch. You know what I want to do? I want to make a tea out of bay leaves and see like really what the pure undulterated flavor of it alone is you've never done that no no have you done that yes you've made a tea of course i have why wouldn't you pretentious uh because i i'm a fan of like the way that you are a fan of immersing yourself in frightening birds

i am a fan of doing little experiments so i remember when people started asking me do bay leaves do anything i thought like well let's taste some water uh-huh taste some bay leaves with water to see what it actually tastes like interesting interesting yeah and it's almost um god i don't know eucalyptus might be a little what a weird flavor what am i a koala what am i a guy who knows one fact about koalas which is that they eat eucalyptus might be a little what a weird flavor. What am I? A koala? What am I? A guy who knows one fact about koalas which is that they eat eucalyptus leaves? Quick aside. This whole podcast

is aside so I don't think I need to say quick aside. I was in the checkout line of Whole Foods with Julia and she was like oh I meant to get eucalyptus. Can you go to the plant section and get eucalyptus? Did she tie it in the shower? Yeah. Dude. I knew it. i was a doubter at first i knew it i was a doubter at first and then i walked into her bathroom after she put the eucalyptus plants up and i was like this smells like a residential marriott i've never been to a spa so my i've literally never been to a spa

so my only reference is a marriott hotel that's pretty good it smelled like a marriott bathroom and i was like bro this is nice yeah i know you should do that with bailey yes single guys out there who embody the idiot dads from yogurt commercials because that's what i think i embody every yogurt commercial has like an idiot dad oh see no see i think of infomercials that have the idiot that doesn't know how to how to hold three cups of coffee. Yeah, yeah. No, that, that, that, that. If you embody that energy as I do, live with someone with a feminine touch. It helps. Wow, does it make your life better? Anyways, I walk outside into Whole Foods, and I'm just like,

I have no idea what a eucalyptus plant looks like, and there was no one to ask, and so I just brought a handful of things. Like, that's a cactus. And I'm like, oh, no. I can't hold cups of brought like a handful of things like that's a cactus and I'm like oh no I can't hold cups of coffee oh man no it's okay I think there needs to be more bay leaf education in America I'll tell you that I think that's what it is I think

we have been conditioned to say bay leaf ain't nothing yeah and I think I think people need to start omitting bay leaves from more recipes so we can let them shine and I feel the same way about another ingredient what's that? Black pepper. You know, Sammy Nostradt said that.

She said that salt and pepper are two different flavors and one doesn't need the other. A chef buddy of mine, Chris Morningstar, said something to me. Salt is seasoning. Pepper is a spice. I actually watched him. Someone was, we were doing this catering event and there was like one vegan person there. we had to make one vegan dish uh and uh one of his cooks just cracked a bunch of black pepper on there and he was like i didn't have that in their sv and the guy was like well you said season everything and he was like salt is seasoning correct black pepper is a spice i

don't want that in there and so he went in with tweezers and picked out oh that's a little bit much that was a little much it was a a teaching moment. He was not like, not like, no, I know there's like abuse in kitchens. That was like a reasonable thing to me. To tweeze out pepper? Yeah.

Perfection. Josh, if I had a sous chef and they put pepper on something, I would make them go with tweezers and pick out the peppers?

I don't know. Come on, that's crazy. I think that's like a valuable teaching moment. You know what you do? You go. Oh, just blow on the food? That's't know. Come on, that's crazy. I think that's like a valuable teaching moment. Oh, just blow on the food? That's how pandemics start, Nicole. Cheese and rice. You go, you go, you go. You literally

spit everywhere. Yeah, I do spit. The other day I just drooled in a pan. Did you see that? I was holding a pan. I think I might have disassociated from that point on. I was holding a pan that I was going to use to like, as a lid for another pot. And then I was trying to do the disturb thing from down at the sickness. And then as I went, it just drooled, fell out of my mouth into the pen.

And I quickly ran to the sink and washed it. Oh, my God. No, I don't think I was aware of that. If I were, I would have just shut down production, just shut down production for about like 45 minutes. We need a deep clean job. Josh's infected saliva is there. That is so funny. That's a little excessive.

Okay, that might be excessive. But point is what we're talking about. Black pepper is used ubiquitously in so many recipes where it'll be like, add one crack of fresh pepper to a nine pound soup. And it's like, you're not going to taste it. There might be that subtle hum in the background, whatever, thinking about little things like Carl's Jr. Chicken Sandwich, where there's a ton of black

pepper in there and you really taste it. I haven't had a Carl's Jr. Chicken Sandwich in a really long time. I think they got the best budget chicken sandwich. That's another podcast, but it's now $1.99 because of inflation. I know, but it's really great. But that said, Course you America! If you have certain Indian

dishes, like there's a Kerala style curry that I really love. And black pepper really takes a forefront. It takes a starring role. It is one of the most beautiful spices and I think we take it for granted, much like bay leaves, because it's used so much throughout so many recipes.

So I think when we start using black pepper and bay leaves, et cetera, it should be like focused. Focus on that one thing. Sometimes when you like add other spices, when you just cram the whole, I mean, I'm a big fan. You've seen me season my lunch chicken where I just dump in just like all spice, ginger, whatever. You add some, no question, just like odd like pairings. Well, I have a theory that all

spices are the same. No. Why? They're not, they're not, they're not. But I think most spices tend to make food taste better. Correct. And more spices go together than you'd think. We were talking about this the other day where I was like, name me two spices that don't

go together. And you kind of struggled a little bit. Mustard. What was it? Mustard seed and... What did we come up with? Mustard and cinnamon were the two? I think mustard and cinnamon, yeah.

But even then, I mean, black mustard seed and... What do they call it? Ceylon cinnamon? Or is that like a weird colonial nickname? I don't know. But black mustard seed and cinnamon both used a lot in curries.

You know, like, a lot of flavors can harmonize together. But that said, when you self-edit and you focus on one spice, paprika. As some say, paprika. Why do you say paprika? I just think it's hilarious to say paprika. What do you gain from it? Some people say culinary. It's like you sound like an A-Hawaii dude. Paprika.

Paprika is another thing that we take for granted and we probably don't even know the flavor i mean i've said this before the flavor is red yeah red pepper yeah it's red bell peppers uh yeah technically it's not necessarily a bell pepper um alton brown came at me on twitter about this and he's absolutely correct um but it's like a hungarian version of pepper they're actually made from a ton of different peppers that have been cultivated in hungary and you know they've now transferred to spain and all that um but anyways we take it for granted because like when I think of paprika I think of the little red dust on a deviled egg that you're never gonna taste oh man good times good times but I haven't had it I haven't had a good deviled egg in like

eons can we just make deviled eggs for lunch I would love some deviled eggs you know we have like 18 eggs do we do dude that's that's that's lunch for me. What are you going to eat? I don't know. I have a question. I was going to say one more thing about paprika. What is it? But then you eat Hungarian chicken paprikash. Can you make chicken paprikash today?

I thought we were having deviled eggs. Nicole, tell me what you want for lunch today. I don't know what I want. A little context. We're recording the podcast like two hours later than we normally record. And so Nicole's just hangry. I'm hungry. Josh, I have a question. Yeah,icole i'm here to answer your questions josh why don't i see ground bay leaves on the shelves of america do you know what contains ground bay leaves i don't

know why i wanted to voice uh old bay shut up bay seasoning has ground bay leaves in it but no wonder it's called old bay because it has bay it? Or is it because you get it on the dock of the bay? I think it's the Chesapeake Bay. I don't know. Also, I haven't fact-checked this. I read one tweet saying that. I hope that person was accurate. But no, I think ground bay is probably

just very overpowering, I'd imagine. I don't see it anywhere, and that upsets me. I want ground bay leaves on all the shelves of America. I think we should start a petition. All our listeners out there, tweet at grocery, I want ground bay leaves in Tagnacool. Tweet at Kroger. Tweet at Food for Less.

Tweet at them all. Well, so my favorite Bay Leaf story in media, and this to me divided a generation of people who knew about food and did not, are all the tweets to Chipotle. Have you seen these? Yes, of course. Complaining that people found leaves in their beans and they're like, what, did you bring these beans under a tree and the leaf fell into it and then everyone just absolutely dookied on these people uh saying like no that's a bay leaf uh and also that's another one of my favorite functions of bay leaves is in a big old pot of beans um but i also think bay leaves are a discount don't tell nicole don't tell anyone i said this i think bay leaves are

a poor man's avocado leaf oh man well people don't well Josh tell the people what the flavor of an avocado leaf is because it's not as common as bay leaves no it's not

so but beans cooked with avocado leaf it's very popular in Puebla and Oaxaca it's what is it Oja Oja de Aguacate

I think so that makes sense Oja means leaf I think anyways it is just this I mean beautiful earthy and fragrant I mean I beautiful, earthy, and fragrant. I mean, I almost don't have the vocabulary to describe it.

But it's also used in this dish called michote de borrego, which is like lamb cooked almost like en papillote, like in a parcel. And that's maybe the best bite of food I've had in LA. I've probably said that about a couple different bites of food, but this is up there in the top five at least from the food truck. Los originales tacos arabes de Puebla, the longest named food truck in the game. Sounds like it. Two lines? Dude, it's just all across the truck. Like it's seriously one line, nine feet long. But that said, that was when I learned the beauty of avocado leaves. It was when I opened up this

foil packet and I saw like this lamb, these lamb chunks stained with chili, super tender and gelatinous was resting on like a little bed of avocado leaves. And I picked up the avocado leaf and I, and I sucked off the lamb juices from the avocado leaf. And it was just as, I mean,

beautiful, um, like not super green, verdant herbal, but like this deep earthiness, um, that was so, so, so beautiful. So I mean, beautiful, like not super green verdant herbal, but like this deep earthiness that was so, so, so beautiful. So I recommend if anyone wants to get some avocado leaves from Amazon and try that with the bay leaves, cook some rice, cook some beans, toss them in there. Interesting. That's my favorite non-really edible leaf.

Cool. Yeah. One time I found a dime in my Chipotle. I'm sorry. it wasn't a dime it was a nickel it was supposed to be there sad flavor you don't know about cooking nickels nicole nicole in the azores in the azores what they do they have to import american nickels so it gets very expensive to cook the cuttlefish but what they do is they rub nickels they tenderize the cuttlefish with the nickels talking about old wives tales that like some of them. Stone soup. Wait what was stone soup? It's a lady who puts

I don't know there's like multiple fables about stone soup. I think it's like an old lady puts stone in the soup and then she cooks water and it tastes like she's like oh there's flavor there's stone in there I don't know. You ever heard about the cork the wine cork and the octopus? Yeah. That's the thing you throw the cork in and it tenderizes the octopus inexplicably.

It doesn't though. No way it doesn't. Of course it doesn't. No way it doesn't. No way. What are other cooking old wives tales? So my Italian roommates, I mean, they would add like three grains of sugar to their tomato sauce and they'd be like, it neutralizes the acid.

My Nona said that. And I'm like, what does that mean to you? What do you think it means? I think I brought this up once. Like you can't, if a woman is on her, you know, menses, she can't make tomato sauce. What? Yeah, that's one. I don't think you brought that up.

I feel like I would have remembered. No, I definitely brought this up one time. You don't remember? No, I repressed it. Okay, so I was watching The Real Housewives of New Jersey, as I do. I was watching The Real Housewives of New Jersey, as I do. And then Teresa Giudice was saying, like, I can't make the tomato sauce because I want my men's hair. And then it was like an old wives' tale.

You're not allowed to because you ruin the sauce. What do you mean ruin the sauce? Like your hands? What are you mashing the sauce with your hands? You can't make the sauce. Okay, now we're not even getting into like old wives' tales. These are just like, oh, this is actual systemic sexism in the food world. But Jiro Ono of Jiro Dreams of Sushi. Hot hands.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the women can't be sushi chefs because their hands get too hot. From the menses, is that what you're saying? The menses. And everyone's like. I don't know a better word for it. I don't know a better word for it.

I was like, there's no science. And then everyone was like, do we cancel 94-year-old Jiro or do we let him live out his days? I had a friend that was a pastry chef. She went to Le Cordon Bleu and she had hot hands. Like, she had hot hands. Yeah. So what she would do whenever she would do chocolate work, she would have a bowl of ice and she would dip her hands in a bowl of ice, keep them there for like 10 seconds, dry them off really quick, and then go back to like assembling her chocolate like masterpieces. And then she would have to put her hands in ice again.

So maybe true. Might have a point. I don't know, bro. I don't know, bro. Next week on the podcast, does women got hot hands? I mean, I have warm hands. I've been told that I have warm hands. I'm just sweaty all the time.

You're a little clammy, darling. No, I'm not clammy. I'm oyster-y. I'm like a grilled oyster in. Well, you're a little clammy, darling. No, I'm not clammy. I'm oyster-y. I'm like a grilled oyster in the hand, just sweating oyster liquor. You're muscly. Because you're muscly. Oh, got him. All right, Nicole, we've heard what you and I have to say.

Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the Twitterverse. It's time for a segment we call... Opinions are like casseroles. Shh, it's a secret. And my secret is that I don't have underarm sweat or something. You ever see those commercials? My secret? I handle my underarm sweat. What you ever see those commercials my secret i handled my underarm

sweat what's secret my secret i got hot hands i rubbed deodorant all over them uh you ever deodorant other parts of your body that aren't your armpits no but i recently got into the organic uh aluminum free deodorant game and i hate it i don't like it i'm sweaty yeah i just i get the one with the most ed hardy like graphic design on it. Cool. I'm currently using Bear Glove by Old Spice. It's got a picture of a bear to let me know that it's for men because we like bears. Yeah, so David and my dad both use the same kind of deodorant.

It's called Swagger by Old Spice, and I don't like that. Get them on Bear Glove. It smells like a sorority girl. But I don't want them to smell like you. Oh, yeah. Hey, first up, we got at dare blau elephant tomato juice is the same as tomato sauce and you cannot change my mind um i agree with this it's technically inaccurate but the reason i agree with this is because then it verifies my theory that bloody maryys are just liquored up Prego marinara sauce.

And I don't like them. There's, okay. The, okay. Tomato soup. I mean, tomato juice and tomato sauce are cousins. Yeah. They're cousins. They're not the same thing, but they have, you know, Punnett squares relation.

Similar. Not the same. Yeah. Mendel. Gregor Mendel. Punnett squares. We both fail at a high school science in the 10th grade. I'm telling you.

Environmental sciences. Talking about juice versus puree, as someone who has screwed up so many recipes, because I've never owned a juicer, and who has screwed up so many recipes by thinking, I can just puree this and then strain it really fine. You can't. You can't a lot of times. You can try and cheesecloth it. Juice is a whole thing.

You're separating all the pulp from all the liquid. It's so hard to do that any other way. They are different, but no, I like this because it verifies

my false thoughts, which is how we get into a lot of problems in society. Confirmation bias, baby. Okay. B Gauge Fitness says, food is what the creator

deems it is. A burger could be a pizza, just a bad one. Huh. I like this. As a person who constantly talks about the chef's intent, the chef's intent, the chef's intent, this is a good opinion, albeit an annoying one.

It is. This is annoying. Incredibly pedantic in a way that I love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So someone gives you a pepperoni pizza and they go- Enjoy your salad. Yeah, yeah.

They go like, enjoy your salad. You're like, well, there's no lettuce. There's no dressing. If you said it was a salad, I want something crunchy and refreshing, maybe even a little bit healthful. And this is that. And they're like, no, no, it's a crouton with a cooked tomato salad on it and blah, blah, blah.

All they've done is made a terrible salad. Yeah. And if they present it to you as a salad, you have to judge it. That's like top chef rules, right? They present like a steak might be overcooked. And then Tom Colicchio always comes in with what was your intended doneness on the steak and then you always look at the chef and i'm like oh are they gonna say mid-rare and i screwed up or are they gonna try and do the old pr flip and hit him with like i intended to make this steak well done chef uh and so you always gotta judge my intent i agree with this me too at samantha gail 05 canned tuna in beef

top ramen a delicacy for who why beef why uh i would prefer i drop some canned tuna on the spicy shrimp probably a delight that's what i was gonna say or even like a vegetable based the chili picante one that's a good flavor i can't the beef and, it's like lamb and tuna fish. Have you ever had Vitello Tonato? I had. Actually, yes. I made it in school. You made Vitello? So explain what Vitello Tonato is. It's rare cooked veal that you shave super thin. Is it veal tongue or is it just veal breast or whatever? I don't remember. It's some sort of veal.

And then you make a very smooth tuna sauce. It's like tuna salad with extra liquid in it. Yeah, and then you like pepper on some like capers and stuff like that. It's enjoyable. It's not my favorite thing in the world. It's like, to me, one of the most bizarre food combos. It's ultimately delicious, but kind of in a disconcerting way. It's like not my go-to dish.

I don't think it's like a delicious meal. It's something that I've tried once. Maybe we'll try again whenever I'm, I don't know, Croatia, Italy, wherever it's not a i don't think it's like a delicious meal it's something that i've tried once maybe we'll try again whenever i'm i don't know croatia italy probably yeah and like i'll never eat it again yeah it's not a soul it's not a soul satisfying dish for me i agree with that but that said there's there's precedent for cow meat albeit a baby cow um with tuna beef top ramen and tuna and maybe there is historical precedent for this. Speaking of pedantic and annoying, hi, my name's Josh. At Advait Krishnan, mango juice will always be the queen of all juices. Other juices are just peasants tryharding. I love the use of tryharding as a verb.

Mango juice. I don't like drinking juice like that. Too thick. I don't like drinking juice like on its own really i'm not a juice drinker never been a juice drinker at all even like fancy juicy yeah i saw you drink juice yesterday no well you got like a jug of an orange carrot well that's because i needed it yeah it's like no no whenever no no like like singular juices i don't enjoy and you need a blend i need a blend but like again that's a fresh this

is so bougie of me like fresh pressed juices yeah well you're paying to feel good about yourself sure when you do that right sure but like i like solo juices like from concentrate like i can't do unless it's grapefruit juice because i love grapefruit juice and i sprinkle a little bit of salt in there so my blood pressure doesn't go all out of whack. Really good. I love that. My problem with mango juice is that it's simply too thick. Mango is one of the most beautiful fruits, possibly. I mean, what a freaking delight. That said, the juice to me, if I'm drinking juices,

I want to be like refreshed, you know? And there's something where mango juice is between food and drink. Yeah. And I know I already talked about how drinks don't exist, but mango juice, it's too thick. It's like a smoothie for me. Give me a good mango aid

and I'm down. No, King of Juice's honeydew juice. What a crappy opinion that I stand by. I love honeydew juice. Anytime my dad's diverticulitis acts up,

we give him cantaloupe juice. My mouth is salivating thinking about cantaloupe and honeydew juice. Melons are great. Cantaloupe juice is really good. Pro tip, put like a thimble of rose water in it. Ugh,ew juice. Melons are great. Cantaloupe juice is really good. Pro tip, put like a thimble of rose water in it.

Oh, you're done. That sounds great. I'm big into buying expensive melons at Whole Foods. I'll be like, never heard of that melon, but it's eight bucks a pound and this weighs four pounds. Let's buy this $30 melon, screw it. The word melon gives me goosebumps in a weird way. I don't like it.

I don't like the word melon. Okay, okay. Phil Ray says, a Mexican hot chocolate will always be better than anything European. So I don't know if you've ever had a,

how do I say, chocolat chaud? Chocolat chaud. Chocolat chaud. Chocolat chaud. A chocolat chaud or a hot chocolate is French style hot chocolate.

It's very thick, very luxurious. We call it drinking chocolate. It's one of my favorite things. When I worked at a chocolate store, I used to make it all the time. And I would make it special. I'd make it super thick for the patrons I really liked. And I would also add cream in there for them.

So I'd make it really luxurious and really fancy. I love Mexican hot chocolate, though. The cinnamon and just the rough, raw sugar. Yeah. It's just making my mouth just two it's two different experiences i love eating that like unrefined uh there's a brand i think it's i think it's called chocolatel which is like the nahua word for chocolate yeah is it the disc the disc yeah that kind of like rough unrefined chocolate before a ton of dairy was added to it um i absolutely love that i think

it lets the cocoa shine get a little bit of that spice. It plays on the bitterness. I've always wanted to try the original, like, so chocolate, right, in the Aztec Empire was, I mean, kind of used like a coffee in a way. It was a drink because chocolate has caffeine in it. And so it was a drink made with chocolate

and something called agua de miel, I believe. That it was sweetened with. And it's this kind of like, you know very sort of bitter earthy chocolatey drink that i've always wanted to try the original version of and there's actually a coffee shop i believe it's a community-run coffee shop in east la that was making it but i think they've since closed down but i've always really wanted to

try it because i i love i'm not a super fan of just like crazy dark like european dark chocolate bars you know where you get all the kind of dairy fat. But I love that like expression of cacao. Yes. And I would really want to try that drink. So, yeah, I agree with you. Mexican hot chocolate rules. Yeah, you have to use like a molinillo or whatever to mix it.

A molinillo? It looks like a rattle and it's like multiple like thicknesses of discs. Yeah, yeah. And you just kind of like rub it between your hands and it like froths thicknesses of discs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just kind of rub it between your hands. It froths the milk for you. And it incorporates air into the chocolate. And it makes just this beautiful texture. All right.

At Ug Nikki, Dayton-style pizza not being in the best pizza styles is a crime. What is it? Let me talk about regional Ohio food loves. What is it? I don't know what Dayton's South is. I once pitched a GMM episode that was, it was like the international dartboard game, except it was just a map of Ohio, and they had to guess which version of chili and macaroni originated in what city, because there are three versions of chili with noodles.

There's like Cincinnati Skyline, there's Columbus-style Johnny Marzetti. What is? It's the dish. And then there's like Cleveland Chili Mac, which I had on my recruit trip to Case Western Reserve University. I almost went to school in Cleveland. I had a really lovely trip there. Nice school. Their business school is designed by Frank Gehry. Who? The dude who did Disney Concert Hall.

All his buildings look like crumpled up balls of foil. Oh, I love that. Yeah, yeah. He designed the Case Western Reserve Business School. Who knew? who knew anyways point is what does this have to do with pizza regional ohio food insanities are one of my favorite things there's something called ohio valley pizza um and i i don't know what it is dayton style pizza i don't know what it is i'm excited to find out it probably just has like okay here's one processed provolone cheese that we make in dayton okay, Dayton style pizza

thin crust pizza that's cut into squares rather than slices. Oh wow. Okay, this is not a good explanation. I don't know what Dayton pizza is and if you want to tell me what Dayton pizza is, please tweet us because I don't want to Google it right now. I don't doubt that you believe it's the best style of pizza.

Go Dayton Flyers. Yeah. Okay, Maddie Schultz says mayonnaise is only good mixed with ketchup. Hashtag pink mayonnaise. That's our new band name. Pink mayonnaise? Yeah. Yeah. We're like a Riot Grrrl band. Yeah, exactly. Pink mayo. Pink pink

mayo. And I'll come in there and it's like ahhh. It's kind of yelling in the background. You know? Pink mayo. Pink mayo. We'll be an impressive gender It's kind of yelling in the background, you know? Pick my owl! Pick my owl! We'll be an impressive gender-integrated Riot Grrrl band where I'm like, and I'm Josh! I know how to play the bass.

We're Pink Mayonnaise, and we're for the liberation of all women, and I'm like, and I'm Josh, I helped! You play bass? I used to play double bass, classically trained. You know that about me? Nicole, classically trained. Jeff, classically trained. I used to play with a bow.

I used to strum it. I used to strum. I used to, with a bow, I would just strum it. And I did that for all of a year, and then I stopped. Wow. But I could still, like, probably, like, strum a bass. Like, if I, like, remembered. Yeah?

You know, I did one year of violin when I was nine, but I was so bad, because, like, we couldn't afford to, like. High five. High. I was, like, roughing my bow of violin when I was nine, but I was so bad because like we couldn't afford to like, I was like rots in my bone. My stuff was all broken. And so at concerts, I didn't want to drag everybody down. So I would just hold the bow above the violin and just not touch it. Were you good? No, I literally wouldn't play.

I was so bad that at the concerts, I wouldn't even play it. I just act like I did. I'm sitting back. So no one saw me. Like, was it like an extracurricular class? It was like mandatory. We had to pick up an instrument in fourth grade, and it was literally violin or recorder.

You picked violin? And I was like, screw it. Let's be cultured. I'm nine. Let's learn about the world through the violin. I think I was in seventh grade, and I would go to school at like 5.50 a.m. to learn how to play the double bass like a like a dork no that's abuse

picking out pepper from a dish isn't that's abuse making a kid go to school no i wanted to do it i wanted to do it and i picked the double bass because you want to know why i wanted to be different i didn't want to be a girl playing the violin or the viola and the cello who cares about the cello i want to be the double bass girl. What are you, Yo-Yo Ma? More like Yo-Yo No. Oh, God. Is it my turn? Yeah. Okay, here we go. At RadRed4, why eat alligator

when chicken exists? Well, I don't know. Did an alligator attack you or did a chicken attack you? How did you come upon this alligator? Because everyone says alligator tastes just like chicken. You've eaten alligator? Yes.

One time I went to an Armenian wedding and they had this alligator, cooked alligator, wrapped around the trunk of a tree, like as a design, and people were eating it. Alligator, forgive my ignorance, alligators aren't Armenian, correct? They are, I believe, native to the United States. Yeah. Pretty much the U.S. only. Yes, but I went to an Armenian wedding with my dad when I was like seven. And then they just like cut like the outside of it. And then like people were going with tongs and like picking the meat out.

And then I asked my dad if I could try it and he said no. That's like something a Colombian drug lord does at their wedding. Like that's a flex. It was really rad. It was really cool. Dang, was it good? I didn't try it. I was seven and my dad was like, no.'re not trying alligator are alligators kosher did that

come up in the torah i don't think so because they're scaly probably i don't know maggie i had a friend i had a friend bring back uh alligator from like the florida gulf coast um it's fine it's fine i've had alligator jerky before it's fine. It's fine. I've had alligator jerky before. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Alligator's fine. I guess if you are somebody who gets off on eating something that could kill you,

which I'm not, I mean, technically a cow could kill you. Yeah, you know, I got my thrills eating cow knowing it could kill me. Can a cow kill you? Of course a cow can kill you. A cow falls on you?

There is probably more. So if you're cow tipping and then you like lay on the side of the cow Is that what you're talking about? Yeah Cows can kill you You can drown in their poo

There's a guy that drowned In elephant poo He was underneath an elephant Elephant pooed right on him I hate this podcast And drowned in it I love this podcast The people love the podcast

Nicole we have to keep Doing the podcast And on that note Thank you for listening To a hot dog is a sandwich If you want to hear more From us here in the Mythical kitchen We got new episodes For you a sandwich If you want to hear more From us here in the Mythical Ketchum

We got new episodes For you every Wednesday If you want to be featured On Opinions are like casseroles You can hit us up on Twitter at mythicalchef Or And Henny's on it

With the hashtag Opinion casserole And for more Mythical Ketchum Check us out on YouTube We launch new videos Every week And of course

If you want to share Pictures of your dishes Hit us up on Instagram At what Josh? At what? Oh Nicole the Instagram? Yeah You're going to write the instagram oh that's uh that's um at mathematical caption see you next time you you