A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Does Korea Have The Best Food In The World? ft. Deuki Hong and Matt Rodbard

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Today, Josh and Nicole are joined by Deuki Hong and Matt Rodbard to talk about Korean food. Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: http://youtube.com/@mythicalkitchen To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is mythical. Josh, you need to stop using my scissors to cut up your food. Well, how the heck am I supposed to cut my office carb into perfect bites? There's meat juice all over my packages. This is an intervention. And this is A Hot Dog is a Sandwich! Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what?

That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Ayer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inayati. And today we have two very special guests joining us.

Together in their new cookbook, Korea World, they've taken an insider's look at the exciting revolution of Korean food through the stories and recipes of chefs and home cooks alike. Please welcome Dookie Hong and Matt Rodbard. Hey, guys. What is up? What an honor to be here. Love the show. No, thank you so much for having us, man.

Thank you for being here. And thank you for having us at your cookbook release party a few days ago. It was litty. It was litty. It was so litty that we never spoke to each other because I was ripping ube horchata filled with rum. That's right. There was rum there.

I didn't see you, but I heard your fit was let's go over your fit check because the fit check like indexed high with the audience. Let me say my part of it because he just told me oh yeah that guy was me.

I was like running around saying hi and all of our friends and it was a litty party. Yes, yes, yes. And I see this guy he's just like great fit

and for me I just gotta recognize. I always recognize games. Real recognize real. I don't know if I'm real but I was just like dude awesome fit for me I just gotta recognize I always recognize real recognize real I don't know if I'm real but I was just like dude awesome fit or something along the lines

like dude it all works man we dapped each other up and said no words and then I'm out which is how it should be are you still wearing your kitty cat anklet

yeah yeah can you show it up oh no right now no I don't just wear it oh it's not a casual no I don't break out the anklet for a Tuesday podcast

sorry but y'all have an incredible cookbook and it's the a casual anglet? No, I don't break out the anglet for a Tuesday podcast. Sorry. But y'all have an incredible cookbook, and it's the follow-up to Koreatown, the cookbook. We have titled this podcast, Does Korea Have the Best Food in the World? We know it is a foolhardy errand to try and measure one culture against another. Absolutely, yeah.

However. We're going to do it. We got to do it. We're going to do a little bit. I'm clocking out. I got to. But no, tell me about why Korean food means're going to do it. I'm clocking out. Tell me about why Korean food means so much to y'all and what makes it special. Well, I'm Korean.

And I am not. It means so much to me. I mean, it's my culture. I grew up with it. My mom made sure language and food was something that we never forgot. I think she knew her at an early age like, hey, you're going to learn English.

You're going to eat a lot of hot dogs and hamburgers in your life. When we come home, we only speak Korean and we only eat Korean food. Great. Yeah. I mean, for me as a journalist on the projects, I've really just found that the cuisine is not just delicious, like Colby Jim and Jake Boocum, dishes like that. But listen, the culture, there's pages and pages to write about this amazing,

you know, moment we're having in America, in the world around Korean food. So there's like both the food and then like the more journalistic side. So yes, it is the most amazing food in the world and probably the most interesting food in the world, I would say. There was a phrase that I never heard that I learned from Korea World, actually. Is it Hallyu? Yeah, sure. Hallyu.

Yeah. Tell me about that process. I would say direct translation is Korean Wave. But what we're talking about is, sure, the food, the culinary revolution, as we pointed in Korea World. The cultural, the arts, the music. It is a wave that is sweeping through. Not only it expands outside of Korea. And the impact. And Matt puts it beautifully,

you do the whole Indiana, size of Indiana. I've heard it like recently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the impact that it has. Yeah, for a country that's the size of Indiana, that has 50 million people, I would say the influence that Korean food and Korean culture has in the world is outsized.

I mean, it is incredible to think about. In East Asia, in Southeast Asia, in America, in the world, everyone knows about all the K-pop songs. They know the K-dramas. Are you a Woo fan? Do you watch Attorney Woo? That show on Netflix? I've never seen, I've never really listened to K-pop,

and I've never really dabbled in K-dramas. But maybe I will after this podcast. I'm big on a Korean reality show right now. Oh, really? And you could probably potentially guess. Oh, Physical 100. Physical 100, baby. I've seen Physical 100.

I had to take a wild guess. Physical 100 doesn't count. What? It's not a K-drama. It's a Korean drama. It's a Korean show. That's part of Hallyu, though. It is.

Okay, fair, fair, fair. They wouldn't do that in America. And if they did that in America, the show would absolutely flop because it would suck. That was a great show.. It is. Absolutely. Fair, fair, fair. They wouldn't do that in America. And if they did that in America, the show would absolutely flop because it would suck. That was a great show. That was a great show. It's the amount of reaction shots

from people that they show per thing. But it's like very Korean. But not only that, I've dove deep now into the Korean sporting culture behind this. I'm involved in all the Reddit threads about the drama. But America, right?

All of our highest paid athletes are football players and basketball players, right? Sure. In Korea, they have, what's the wrestling called? Like Sriram? Oh, yeah, Sriram.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you have wrestlers, you have track and field athletes, you have pro crossfitters, and they're all sort of in the same realm and they're all competing against each other.

We couldn't have that in America because all our best athletes are already making millions in the NFL. Oh, my God. But back to. We couldn't have that in America. No way. Because our best athletes are already making millions in the NFL. Oh my God. And but back to the wave, you know, the idea that all of this

culture is hitting, you know, the shores of America, you know, as a tidal wave, it's the food is getting wrapped up in it. So I think the K dramas

are highlighting kimbap and highlighting, you know, jay pokum and dishes that we really love. And it's all kind of translating to having this major moment

in like LA, New York, Atlanta, Georgia, all around America. So it's really kind of translating to having this major moment in like LA, New York, Atlanta, Georgia, all around America. So it's really, really like part of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Where did you grow up? I grew up in West Michigan. Kalamazoo. Kalamazoo, Michigan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up in Kalamazoo. So I feel I didn't really experience Korean food

until I went to college in Madison and my friend Jason kind of introduced me to Korean food and that was like the start of my journey. But yeah,

we didn't have a lot of Korean food but guess what? Now in Kalamazoo there's two Korean restaurants, and that was like the start of my journey. But yeah, we didn't have a lot of Korean food. But guess what? Now in Kalamazoo, there's two Korean restaurants. Right on. It's pretty cool, yeah. I mean, Nicole, you grew up in Los Angeles. Yeah, born and raised.

So you were probably going to Korean barbecue from like a very young age. Oh, for sure, yeah. We've been going since we were like, what, like 14 years old. We would just get our allowance and just go to KBBQ. I actually, before the Korea World Party, I had Korean barbecue the night before, and I was like, oh, man, I'm going to go to this partyq i actually before the the korea world party i had korean barbecue the night before and i was like oh man i'm gonna go to this party you did oh yeah and i was telling myself like damn i had korean korean food already but i didn't even care because there's so much i use so much uh korean food and korean influence in my cooking at home a lot of the time i always

have like gochujang at home I have a ton of stuff at home just to make Korean or Korean inspired food at home so I do find myself cooking a lot of foods that are reminiscent of it which is why

I never get sick and tired of it you just described the Korea world wave which is like you attend one of our parties you read our book and like

you're going to be eating at a Korean barbecue restaurant you're going to be cooking with some of these ingredients I actually showed up I had 14 friends at a Korean barbecue restaurant. You're going to maybe be cooking with some of these ingredients. Absolutely. I actually showed up. I had 14 friends at a spot called Prime Barbecue downtown.

And I showed up after they were almost done eating, but they still had all the food on the table. And it was, is it Yukhoe? Oh, I love Yukhoe. I showed up too. I was a little drunk. I had to go to another party and meet up with them. And I think I ate a full pound of beef tartar. How do you do that? I mean, proteins, gains.

No, actually it was. But I mean, that kind of leads me to another point. Like, Korean food, it seems incredibly healthy, right? We talk a lot about fermented foods. You know, kimchi itself is like one of the emblematic obviously dishes in Korean culture. And now you're seeing that at like the Erewhon

and all that yeah i mean i think it's just naturally uh probiotics fermentation it's like i also think i don't know many i don't think korean food is like very bread heavy like there's no it's not like europe and there's like a beautiful bread like italian food french food um so rice i would say is but mostly it's a lot of vegetables as we grow like it's kind of the land impacts the food and the culture and that we don't have a lot of meat like land to raise cattle and so we have a lot of vegetables and and we ferment things and you know you know quite frankly 70 years ago like it the country kind of hit a reset with the Korean War. So give a country 70 years to like kind of not only come back to status quo,

but, you know, to be one of the world powers. It's like pretty incredible. And I would say, you know, Korea is a peninsula. So there's like water everywhere. And so the seafood is really important. Like seafood is like fundamental in the culture. You know, the seafood stocks is like essential in most of the times in Chinese. And to be honest, also temple cuisine, which we cover in Korea World is, you know,

not what you're going to see on Netflix. Like that one chef has done a lot of work and that's great, but there's so much more to say about plant-based cooking in Korea. We spent time at a temple down in Angelado. And, you know, we found this really cool thing. We found these like workaday chefs cooking for the monks. And, you know, they were like doing, we had this cold broccoli salad with tenjun mayo.

So like tenjun is a brown tub you find at H Mart. It might've had some eggs in there. It might've been regular mayonnaise. No, it's vegan mayonnaise. Vegan eggs. The point is, it's a little more flexible than that like chef's table temple food. And there's a huge movement in Korea around temple food

for wellness, for mindfulness, but also like the food is really delicious too. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you mentioned something and I believe it was actually an old interview that you did with series. It's about the way that Korean food has been in America for a long time. But like Duki, you said, you know, you went home and your mom was like, we're only eating Korean food, Korean food, but it didn't exactly get the like Panda Express treatment, right? You have all of these fusion Chinese-American, Italian-American, Indian-American dishes, but Korean food

didn't really get that, or did it? Are we seeing that now? What do you think? You've really seen it. I'm Korean, so it's really tough to be like, hey, let's look at Korean food. This just called food. For Matty, he's a journalist, he respects the culture, he is a student of the game. I'm not a super fan. I mean, that's all I gotta say. Matty, he's a journalist. He respects the culture. He is a student of the game.

I'm not a super fan. I mean, that's all I got to say. I mean, it's true. I'm a fanboy. I'm like the number one fan. I wear the hat. I wear the T-shirt. I wear the sweatshirt.

You're army, but for Korean food. Army for Korean food. I mean, back in the 80s, Korean food was a for us, by us cuisine. The restaurants weren't marketing themselves as really for Westerners. It was more for the Korean populations in the Korea towns. LA is such a great example.

You drive down Olympic, you can still see so many of these old school places still operating. Now, gentrification has happened in places like New York, where 32nd Street is now all about like cosmetic stores. And we've lost all these great restaurants. But frankly, it's been only in the past five years to 10 years where the chefs who run these restaurants, the generations have turned over. Younger folks have moved in. And there's been a sense of marketing back to hell you, like, thinking, okay, well, Korean culture is big.

We're going to make this restaurant very modern. And, like, now you're finding Korean restaurants in all over the country. They're, like, some of the most modern places you're going to find. They're in spaces that look like cafes. They look like bistros. They look like coffee is amazing in Korea. So there's been this, this like movement towards marketing better. And like really, again, back to a culture of only 50 million people doing all this work to make Korean food truly the biggest food story in America right now, writ large, writ large.

Doogie, you were the executive chef at a place that I think meant a lot to both of us. Growing up and being young in L.A., Kang Ho Dong Paek Jong, right? Tell me about the way that Korean barbecue specifically has influenced the way people eat in America. Because that's obviously the first thing that we think of. That was my first exposure to Korean food. Same, same, same. Oh, really? Awesome. I mean, yay. Like, I think for me, like Korean barbecue,

like we said a little before, for me, it's just food, right? But I do have to, especially with writing Koreatown 10 years ago, really having conversations with Matt, you start like taking a step back and analyzing your food, which you'd be like,

hey, if you guys wanted to analyze, I don't know, a hot dog and a burger, like I'd never think about it on a day-to-day basis or a sandwich or a hot dog. Yes, we think about it a lot. But for me to think about it, and I did, especially when we ran the Korean barbecue restaurant for, I did it for about three, almost four years. And I think there's so many elements outside

of just the food, the convivial nature. Hey, you're sharing from one place. It's being cooked in front of you. The interactive element of it. It's a never ending, at least for our experience, it was a never ending. Like it's this cut. It's that cut. This is with marinade.

This is without marinade. I think there's a lot of like in terms of senses, there's no like resting of the senses. Whether that's just like, hey, pour me. You you know even our drinking culture is very like hey very it's weird to pour for yourself it's actually like kind of like everyone just stops like why are you pouring so it's always about the people and the community element of it and i love the convivial nature of korean food or just more specifically the korean barbecue experience yeah yeah when i was in college i went to uc santa barbara for two years and transferred to ucla but when i was at sb uh lived with a korean dude and we used to pack like 12 people into two cars somewhat legally and drive

down to la for the night and we used to go to uh we would drink like makgeolli all the time but like you said it is it's more fun man you don't do that at the outback steakhouse you know what i mean like i mean i'll order your steaks and that's it but then it's kind of like what do we eat what do we want to eat not what do you want to eat it's kind of like what are we eating all together because we genuinely are eating like the same soup we're gonna eat the same meat and sharing hey pass me that lettuce wrap so yeah I think I didn't think about it growing up I was like this is just how we eat. And then realizing and studying… Going to culinary school…

Learning from Matt too. It's like that's not always the dining experience. Josh, you had a KBF. You had a Korean best friend in your life. So if we write about this in the book… What's this? Shout out. Shout out Dae-sun Kim.

Shout out. So everyone we joke about… But it's actually very true and important. Everyone I feel who has like life and has like a a lot of friends has a Korean friend in their life. And that Korean friend is often very proud and very cool about sharing culture. So taking you to the restaurants and explaining the nuances of Korean food. And I think if you look, all the listeners and viewers have a KBF out there. So listen, you got to like hug your KBF.

Sounds weird. Jiho Kim. I'm not your KBF. Nicole has a KBF out there. So listen, you gotta like hug your KBF. Sounds weird. Jiho Kim. I'm not your KBF. Nicole has a KBF. Can we clarify? Everyone's just shouting out their KBF. I had a KBF. His name was Jiho Kim

and he was my friend in culinary school and he taught me so much about Korean food. But I'm not his KBF. That's what people, contrary to popular belief, everyone's like, oh, you guys are… We just met over there.

Matthew? Yes. But Jason O is my KBF. He was my friend in college. He lived with us for a while in New York when he was in medical school. He is the guy

who took me around and explained other restaurants. Sure. Was like definitely correcting my pronunciation which I love and that's like the best thing

is like, okay, yeah, it's not gochi jangs. It's like other words. Sure. I think it's just like it's a real gateway into Korean culture when you have a K. Sure. I think it's just like it's a real gateway into Korean culture

when you have a KBF. Absolutely. Did you have like a white guy who was like, hey, here's craft macaroni and cheese. Matthew Joshua Warbog taught me a lot about

non-Korean food. Yeah, Ashkenazi food. You've learned a little bit from that. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. You've had the gefilte fish? You like the gefilte?

Gefilte fish isn't too bad. Beautiful. Anything but Korean. Ashkenazi kitchen strays. As we travel, we've been traveling for I'm so sorry you've had the gefilte fish you like the gefilte gefilte fish isn't too bad beautiful anything but as we travel we've been traveling for maybe more than two weeks now yeah yeah and obviously

I think when people are like oh you guys want Korean food like we don't want Korean food and we go to LA we're like where are you going to that Korean restaurant we're like

sometimes we want a good slice of pizza you know that'd be nice I made a giant tub of chopped chicken liver for Pesach the other day I'm out here doing my part are you doing so what kind of wine are you putting in that'd be nice. I made a giant tub of chopped chicken liver for Pesach the other day.

I'm out here doing my part. Are you doing, so what kind of wine are you putting in that? Are you going to put sweet wine or put dry wine in there? Sweet. I did like a sauterne or something. Oh, yeah. Sauterne in there is nice. Interesting. I think chopped liver is underrated.

I mean, sorry, this is just. No, this is the podcast. Yeah, yeah. A small little tangent. Chopped liver is Ashnazi food, the greatest food. I mean. No. Sorry. Is it top 35 in the world? food the greatest food? I mean, no. Sorry.

Is it top 35 in the world? Sephardic is coming in to say no. Sorry, guys. Sephardic is coming in hard. Sorry, gonna have to say no. Labneh and zaatar and sumac. Yeah, there we go. Just showing off now.

Just showing off. I was gonna ask you guys, how do you feel about places like Trader Joe's, like capitalizing on frozen Korean food, like the frozen H-Mart Korean kimbaps and stuff like that? How do you guys feel about those? Can I be honest? Yes. I've never had it. Really?

Have you had it? I've had it. We just wrote a big piece on Taste about Trader Joe's stealing IP from like founders of color. Sure. Let's just be clear. I'm not a huge Trader Joe's fan. Sorry, guys, if it's sponsoring the show. But I would say

outside of that I just had to recognize that you know what I think it's fantastic that Korean food like look at you go to the quote unquote

ethnic food aisle and you know right now and Dookie has a great story like it's changing the dynamic of the ethnic food aisle has changed tremendously

I think you have a good anecdote about that yeah do I? no just toss it over he's seen it up for you you know how the the goji like how basically a goji john used to be just one like literally if you go to like a mire in

it's a great point i think as a korean like how do i feel about as forget the chef part forget the co-author journalist part of it is as a k Korean, it's cool. Like, it's like, when you go to Trader Joe's, I went because I wanted, I was like, it's over the trend now. I was like, great, I'll go now. And they were sold out, right?

They're always sold out. Yeah. It's like a point of pride, more so than like, sure, BTS and the Emmys, the Emmys, the Oscars for the Parasite. Yeah. Super like proud moment, moment obviously how could we

like is any Korean mad at that I don't know but for us like the people that know Kimbap right like there's gonna be

some family in the middle of Kansas I always use Kansas me too I always use Kansas I'm gonna go to Kansas one day be like

oh it's great exactly when I think of America I just think like Kansas yeah you're not the only one Wichita the center of food in America. That's the center of the USA.

And if they're talking like, wow, I had kimbap for the first time. And through whatever means. Through Trader Joe's, through Costco. Like Costco has bibigo, dumplings, CJ. Hello. Got that CJ money last week. Like that's… If there's any introduction, right?

Whether that's bulgogi. We had a recent conversation of like, hey, do we want to talk beyond Korean barbecue, bulgogi, like the ABCs. I'm like, I don't care if you know the ABCs or the – it doesn't matter. At least we're talking about it. And as a Korean, it's just a point of pride, to be honest. Like we're so proud of it. To put a point on the ethnic food aisle, truly it used to be one gochujang. And now there's like four or five.

Ten jeons as well. Different formats, different sizes. And I think, you know, H-S now there's like four or five. Ten jang as well. Different formats, different sizes. And I think H-Smart has done such a great job. They're not sponsored by us. Maybe they can in the future. I feel like it's definitely a great example of how Korean food is really infiltrated the way we cook as Americans. Nicole, your point is really sound. Like using these products, and Mythical, you guys always are thinking broadly about using an international International pantry it's like Korean pantry is incredible to cook with Ritlar all around all around the world

Yeah, if they start vaccinating or massage their Trader Joe's I might freak out Yeah, how do you feel about that? Do you feel like would that be like a point of pride or would it be like you know it'd be interesting I think they'd be a lot of online taste tests My mom versus Trader Joe's and I think it would blow up. Trader Joe's, do it for our content. We gotta get Shala in here.

I don't know. I mean, when I see it, I think once I see it like IRL, then my emotions will fall into place. But right now, I think I'd be pretty proud too to see that in the world. Yeah.

You mentioned like Korean barbecue, bulgogi being like the entry points what do you think are like other Korean dishes that people should know about who haven't maybe

been exposed to a lot of Korean food who never had their KBF yeah I mean we just talked about kimbap I mean you can get a trade joke

accessibility is we can't help you out much more than that and you know like dumplings mandu is what we call it like with the

beef bulgogi i'm not saying it because they paid me last week it's really actually great like it's actually one of my favorites sure and it's something that you can get kimchi at costco right and i think that's it's a good start to it and and dabble in and don't it's not just about korean food like even costco even traded joe's like the ethnic food like we talked about like go crazy with it right stay like my whole thing is like

you have a certain amount of meals per day quite frankly today we didn't have a great lunch it happened we gotta talk about this sandwich shop

down the street in your studio we won't name them but we're like we wasted a meal the famous one I know the reviews were

misleading that place was not… The only thing about it is the food doesn't taste good. The food does not taste good. Yeah. They don't season anything. But it's great. Yeah.

Rough hang before hanging out. And that's why I feel like we wasted a meal. Right? And that's how I look at it. I was like, I have a certain amount of meals left in my life. I don't know how many. God willing, he's gonna… Hopefully, it's a lot more than…

You know what not? But I always… What I mean… Going back to that thing. Like… Why not put some… Put some flavor in there. Right. Different things. willing he's gonna hopefully it's a lot more than you know whatnot but i always what i mean going back to that thing like why not put some put some flavor in there right different things you might not like it or you might really find something that you love my great gateway dish is gamjatang now gamjatang is a good dish and you have gamjigol here on olympic in la but it is pork neck potatoes and wild sesame seeds or perilla seeds with large perilla leaves with a pork stock.

So, like, to me, that's not really a kimchi flavor profile. There's no gochujang in it, really. It's like a porky, peppery. It's black pepper, of course. I forgot about that. And it's like a Mexican pozole. It's a version of it. It kind of, like, transcends a lot of cultures.

So, to me, Korean food is, like, all about these, like, different, like, styles of dining and also dishes that kind of aren't like the traditional sweet kalbi. And like in our books, Koreatown and Korea World, we write about it very frequently. Yeah. Nicole, what is like the best Korean food experience you have ever had? I'm curious. Like what was the moment where you were just like, oh, this is the greatest thing. Oh, man. Are you angling it? So many. I know. I'm thinking. What was the moment where you were just like, oh, this is the greatest thing I've ever eaten? Are you angling it?

There's so many. I know. I'm thinking. I'm going into my brain and thinking about all of the Korean food I've had in my damn life. Well, I find myself going to Gardena a lot, surprisingly. So my sister lives in Marina del Rey and her husband works in Gardena. So what we do is it's me, my mom, my dad, my sister, my brother, my brother-in-law, my sister-in-law, my niece, and my nephew.

We all mob to Gardena. And we go and we sit at this place called Yellow Cow. And we sit there and it's just the best. My dad eats… My dad has a very sensitive stomach, so he doesn't eat everything. But at Yellow Cow, he eats everything. All of the banchan. He eats all of the food. it's korean barbecue it's just it's just so versatile and it's just easy to eat and it's a crowd pleaser so i love meals that are crowd pleasers where everyone

from like a nine-year-old to 60 year old can just sit there and enjoy the food yeah so i'd say that's probably my most memorable korean food experience how about you, Josh? What do you think? I remember going to Seonnongdan in LA. And it was at 2 in the morning. And there was a 45-minute line. I was there with just one other friend, not the KBF. He's actually Greece's national record holder in the shot put. So he and I were like, actually, right?

We were like, we'd gone out drinking after just a day of lifting. And we're like, what is just the biggest, most satisfying food we can get? We're like a giant bowl of carby Jim. Yeah. Right. And, but we also got it with the oxtails in there. Oh, yeah. Extra meat.

Yeah. Gotta. And like the oxtails are shaved thin. They're like fidget spinners, but we're like, you know, we're like smoking menthol cigarettes with like Korean teens in the parking lot. People are brown bagging. Honestly, people are brown bagging liquor. You know, there's like a nightclub next door. Dunson's Sa's nearby, which is in La Colcha late night.

Very classic. And I feel like you got this great vibe in LA Koreatown after 2 a.m. 100%. I mean, you can't repeat that anywhere. It's such a scene. And then we go in there, fully packed restaurant, super bright lights, and we just get this giant stone pot just filled with spicy braised meat just covered in like scallions, gochujang.

And that is to this day like maybe the best thing I've ever eaten. Like one of my favorite meals of my entire life. I feel like Colby Jim is like technically difficult. It's like a challenging dish to do, especially at scale at a restaurant. So I think this is something that we should point out. Like Korean food is not like simple in many ways, especially a restaurant. Like it's a challenging dish to do, especially at scale at a restaurant. So I think this is something that we should point out. Like, Korean food is not, like,

simple in many ways, especially a restaurant. Like, it's a long-braised short rib that has been marinated with, like, the orchard fruits and soy sauce. But then you gotta, like, serve it hot and, like, you've got your potatoes cooked perfectly in there. And I feel like this is a great example of, like, the technical prowess of Korean food. And you're the chef, you know, like,

how much goes into it. It's pretty amazing. I mean, I always say, like, even when we're traveling for this book a lot for two two and a half years um with alex lauer photographer incredible so it was just three of us honestly i never lived in korea so i i immigrated here when i was one so i don't know korea so i'm like the guy that i can speak korean so i'm like being the tour guy but i don't know where i'm going either but it was more of just like going around and what we've noticed and so I'm like being the tour guide but I don't know where I'm going either but it was more of just like going around and what we've noticed

and so I'm learning just as much I was like okay these dishes are familiar I've had it and one thing we realized is and what Maddie mentioned is there's simple dishes

I would like to say Korean food is simple but it's not easy and what I mean by that is I think it is harder even as a chef and

as you guys will know you give a chef a pantry, he can mask it with a lot of things. Okay, this is this. I'll, you know, add seven different spices. You won't, you can't even tell. You give a chef three ingredients, it's all technique. And in comparison, it's simple, right? Sushi, it's simple. It's three ingredients.

But it's all technique at that point i think korean food has a lot of that has a lot of that finesse element to it too where you will know like bad fermented kimchi like oh yeah and that's like a matter of like probably days then it's gone bad from like great to bad so it's like very very important i think our book in our book korea world we are all about both sides of the coin but But really, a lot of the home cooking for Korean food, it can be quite easy. It's like stovetop cooking, like doenjang jjigae, for example. You're building like doenjang, garlic, ginger. Basically, in your pot, you're adding water, rice water, stock, and adding meat to it.

We have a really beefy one in our book, and it's like cuts of short rib, and you boil it for 15 minutes. And then you serve it, and then you're good. So think about most western soups it's like a long long long but this is like really fast

you can do the same with kimchi jjigae with kimchi and bacon or pork and stock as well and Curran's not a fan of like waiting

we're not really we're like what do we let's go yeah the food's still on the grill just bring it to the table come on guys

let's eat bring the grill to the table oh yeah that's true just bring it to the table come on guys let's eat bring the grill to the table oh yeah that's true bring the grill to the table there's I love this a lot of people say the same thing about Japanese cuisine

where they're like sushi it's all or what is the ennaka they do kaiseki kaiseki

right like Japanese food is all about the seasons and then you see the dichotomy with like yeah but also their 7-Elevens have the best like fried food in the world I feel like a lot of the Korean food. And then you see the dichotomy with like, yeah, but also their 7-Elevens have the best like fried food in the world. I feel like a lot of the Korean food right now, you're getting this dichotomy of like, you know, meats marinated with orchard fruits and cooked into stews with fermented ingredients.

And then you got the Korean corn dog and you got fried chicken covered in honey butter. Fantastic. Do you think that that stuff is going to sort of like infiltrate popular American food culture, say, quicker than something like Panjang stew? I mean, I would say on surface, like face value, probably, just because there's a familiarity. Like, I don't even have to put the Korean part in it. I can be like, hey, how do you feel about a corndog? Great.

And how do you feel about a Korean corndog? Which is, you know, it's got a sugar coating. It's got the cheesy pull and whatnot. You put french fries and sugar on a corndog, somehow making the most American dish uniquely Korean. It's not a hard sell, I would say. And a lot of these chicken, Korean fried chicken is not a new concept

to Americans in general. It's called chimak, right? Yeah, chicken and beer. So like, Americans like beer. Koreans like beer. Not a hard sell. So I would say in that terms, you don't really have to package it too much and just be like, oh, this is our version of that. And yeah. I think it definitely has infiltrated now and I think it's a great gateway

because hopefully you do Chumac and you do some Korean barbecue. But the next day or next week when you want to do more and go to the AP level of Korean food, you're going to maybe go and have bossam or have like maybe level yeah a little bit higher level but i feel it is a great gateway and we have to celebrate anyone who goes to korean fried chicken restaurant but has like a little bit of like moo kimchi like a little bit of radish which is like definitively korean and and that's an i mean i love it i can't stop eating that when it's in front of you a bowl of radish you know it's amazing so i think like hopefully more uh like, younger Americans who are, like, just starting their journey as a foodie are definitely going to start thinking, okay, wow, this food is cool.

Like, this Korean food is here to stay. And, I mean, it's all, like, a net positive, truly. Yeah, and as both of you said, it is the best in the world, and every other country has worse food. That's right. I'm clocking out. I have one last KBF question. This is mostly for Dookie. My homie Daesung

used to come up behind me when I wasn't expecting. He'd put his hands kind of between my legs and rummage it around and he'd say, uh, otobike?

Do you know anything about that? Sorry. Is that a real thing? Do you know about that? That might be a Daesung thing. No, it is. Koreans know what it is. We gave you the nice version of it.

Let's just say that. You can talk about it in therapy later. I might have to. All right, Nicole, Matt, and Dookie, we've heard what you and I have to say. A lot of people. Now it's time to find out what other wacky opinions are rattling out there in the universe. Well, it's time for a little segment we call...

Opinions are like casseroles. It takes other guests to come on your show to make you realize how many weird little jingles you've made up. It's so normal. It's so normal to us. I'm sassing. Also, Josh, you were a little pitchy. Oh. Sister, I'm always pitchy.

Let's get into the first opinion, please. Hi, my name is Nick from Michigan, a long-time listener. My opinion is that while getting authentic food authentically the way it's supposed to be made is always incredible, there's something super unique and fun and important about the melding of different foods from regions and cultures. Okay. Like doing chicken and waffles, but with Korean fried chicken and using like a spiced syrup, or doing biscuits and sausage gravy but with chorizo sausage.

Excellent, excellent stuff. I like the accent. I'm sensing it's like a little bit West Michigan. Maybe up towards... Kalamazoo guy. Kalamazoo, maybe up towards like South Haven, Grand Haven. That's what I'm thinking of his accent. That was definitely a South Haven-y

accent right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you guys think about that? I completely agree. I think it's… We got that question a lot more maybe in the first book. And there was like, what is Korean food? And we're like, we can only…

You know, how dare we say to Chef Tory Miller of Madison, Wisconsin, that him using a local like the cheese in madison wisconsin in korean food is not authentic because yeah it is he cooks there he doesn't cook in seoul korea you know and so i think for me i i love it myself i myself i'm a fan i'm fascinated by a lot of things i'm weirded out by a lot of things like why would you guys add that and you taste it like oh i see why you guys would add that and my thing is if, if it's – at the end of the day, is it good or is it not? And if it's good, great. I don't want authentic bad food.

I'd rather have not authentic really good food. Yeah, and I think it also flexes creativity. And we have to really respect the culinary arts. And I think when a chef decides that they want to do like ddeokbokki but add a little bit of cream to it, which is something that is big in Seoul and we have in our book, it feels like that's just invention. And that's just like really making more delicious versions of more traditional cuisine. And I feel like we can never hate on someone trying to, you know, be creative or take the next step. Yeah, the question of when something becomes authentic or inauthentic is really fascinating.

And even if you were to use time as a scale, right? One of my facts that will not leave my head is that carbonara is a newer dish than chicken parmesan. Yeah. You know, like, so many Italians would come here and be like, chicken parm's not authentic. It's melanzana alla parmigiana. It's like carbonara is,

it's like a weirdly fascist invention. That's a vast overstatement. But I'm saying like people view Carbonaro as authentic and Chicken Parm as not. But it's simply because there is a diaspora, right?

And also cultures have been changing time and place for literally forever. And I think a lot of the gatekeeping around what is authentic and not probably

had very good intentions. Yeah. And I think we are really on the tail end of that where people are like, hey, man, as long as it's good and you're not being a schmuck about it. Exactly. Yeah, I think when you need to preserve culture,

you need to actually say that there is an origin here. Korea is the origin. But outside of that, gatekeeping beyond that is kind of an impossible task, I feel. Yeah. My name is Nicole, and I love fusion food. That's it. Put wasabi in the mashed potatoes again.

My name is Matt, and we have a whole section of fusion food in our book, Korea World. YOLO. that's it. Put wasabi in the mashed potatoes again. My name is Matt and we have a whole section of fusion food in our book, Korea World. YOLO. Life's short. I love just chopping up some kimchi

and putting it in my quesadilla when I'm drunk. Come on. It's beautiful. Who doesn't? We're all just exposing ourselves. Hey, lovelies. I adore the show.

I adore you guys. Call us lovelies. Here's a not-so-hot take that I have somehow gotten a lot of backlash for recently. In my instant ramen, I like to add cheese. And that's

a very common thing in Korea, but I have been told that it is absolutely disgusting and abominable. But it's absolutely delicious. And I think that more people should adopt the mindset of don't knock it till you try it. Right? Anyways, love you.

Have a good day. Lovely. Ooh, a little air kiss at the end. Nice. We have great listeners. We have a very intimate family. I love it. We're all lovelies.

That's like your fandom name. I'm telling you. It is now. Our hotline was very sexy. It's not a joke. Oh yeah. You guys gotta call it. 2AM line.

Probably. Probably. I mean on the… I would say you guys are… It's both right. So there's no names I guess. They're not saying their names I guess. But…

This person didn't show their names. Lovely. I'm gonna call you lovely. You're right. It's delicious. And then the person that was yucking they're yum yeah it's good yeah i like that one they're right as well right and what i mean by that is it might not be your thing you just might want like okay for i if i don't put anything in

there i don't put the cilantro they gave me i don't put anything some of my people are what are you doing that's just broth i'm like yeah i just want to eat the broth sure i don't put anything. Some of my people are like, what are you doing? That's just broth. I'm like, yeah, I just want to eat the broth. Sure. I don't want to… Some people with the ramen… Ramen… Might not want to put cheese. But it might be really good for some people.

It's your preference. There's no like… I hope you're not getting too much of a backlash where it's like bothering your day. Yeah. But like I get it. Like… And the beautiful thing about food is that

you might not like spice. You might love sweet. You hate… He you might not like spice you might love sweet you hate you doesn't really like spice like i don't like cheese right sure but we're all that's all good you're you're right you're right you're right and i love the question it brings up korean instant ramen which i think in ramyeon is the correct term for Korean style. And, like, it is a moment right now between Shin Ramyeon, which is obviously the kind of gold standard. But then you've got Bulldog. This, like, crazy. Oh, my God.

Bulldog's taken off. All over the internet. Bulldog is everywhere. And that's a Korean company. And it's just amazing to see this, like, ultra spicy, like, kind of based around Bulldog, which is like fire chicken. But it's, like, this version of it in in like a very very easy to make form and I think like

Korean instant ramen is like on fire and do you like so does everyone have you guys tried bulgogi? yes you guys like it?

I tried the black container yes and I needed to eat a banana afterwards correct Josh how about you? I love it man I love spicy noodles

I can't I can't mess with it. I really can't. Yeah. I hate it. It makes me really uncomfortable. I was like, why do people eat this?

But, you know, that's the point. And I think that's the whole point of food. The fact that we could have conversation about it. And I like it that we all don't like

the same things. It'd be very boring. It'd be boring. Yeah. I just feel bad for the people this person's surrounding themselves with

I wish I wish they weren't backlash that is like they weren't so hard on you because girl put cheese on your ramen yeah put cheese on your ramen

you don't need to listen to the non-believers you got four foodies over here telling you to do it so live your truth enjoy the cheese on your ramen again life's short YOLO

I think that's just the vibe for today I think that I hate when people you're talking about not putting like the herbs in your food think that's just the vibe for today I think that I hate when people you're talking about not putting like the herbs in your pho etc

that's like if you go to North Vietnam it's typically not served with all that stuff yeah and so like

when a lot of people are criticizing people and food others end up like weirdly catching strays and a big thing we made a video

we were cooking it was like during the pandemic too so we're just trying to make videos showing people how to cook. And I was like, you can just boil rice and then strain it. We got a ton of people.

People were so mad at you. Oh, yeah. Wasn't that the whole thing with the internet and like strain? They were like… They were upset that people were like straining their rice. Yes. Yeah. And they were like, no, you have to steam it and use the finger method.

And again, it was like a lot of white people in there. But like there are so many other cultures that don't steam rice. Yes. Yeah. And they were like, no, you have to steam it and use the finger method and this, and again, it was like a lot of white people in there, but like, there are so many other cultures that don't steam rice like that. Persian people, West African food, Indian,

like, you know, there's so many different ways to do things and for anybody to get hung up on this is the one way to do it. Quick question, cheese on ramen,

what are we doing? What kind of cheese? I want to get your take. What are you doing? You're doing cheese on ramen? Craft American single, right on there. I don't of cheese? I want to get your take. What are you doing? You're doing cheese on ramen? Craft American single. Right on there. I don't care.

I'm not a cheese guy either. People would think that I would be and I'm not. No, I mean, I personally, I like doing like a pepper jack. I think it's a great

melting cheese. Oh, nice. I'm a zero cheese. I'm a keep it pure. I mean, I don't put anything on my fuzz. So what would I do?

We did do a recipe though and this is during the pandemic because I was cooking with whatever I could find but we did like a French onion and this is during the pandemic because I was cooking with whatever I could find but we did like a French onion ramen so we just caramelized like four onions hit it

with the seasoning packet shot of whatever liquor you have put in the seasoning packet what else were we supposed to do I've heard like drunk I've been drunk

I went drunk all the events in life you know but then when you put the like you know cheese on top and like broil it and that's that's a fun time. Yeah. Into it. Into it.

Yeah. Hey, Josh and Nicole. First off, I just love your guys interaction and the relationship you have. It's excellent. Don't touch me. But going to my question. So I've got some like conservative eater friends. Right. question. So I've got some like conservative eater friends, right? And like, here's me just

like loving like hot pot and Korean barbecue and like some like different ways of eating. What's your guys' recommendations to like get my friends into that that are maybe, you know, not so into like this different style of eating or trying different kinds of foods? I have one. Yes. Honestly, I feel like shabu-shabu is probably the easiest just because it's easy and you're just dunking meat in water. And what's more conservative than that? Nothing. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

Yeah. The flavors aren't too, they're not too competitive with one another. They're not too crazy. It's just a boiling pot of water with beef and whatever vegetables you want. And I feel like that's pretty simple. Yeah.

Very approachable. I don't have a lot of friends. I don't have a lot of friends like this. I'm your friend. No, conservative eater friends. Oh, you don't? I tend to not have any

friends like that. No, so I guess it's tough for me to write. I think for conservative eaters, it's like fried rice. Like if you've got like flavors that maybe are a little more challenging,

if you add rice and oil and fire it up and get a little bit of that wok hang and stuff going on, it's going to taste like fried everything in an American's Love Fried show. Add a little oil to it. To me, it's like frying it up is going to maybe bridge that gap a bit. Korean fried chicken? I don't know. It's fried chicken, y'all.

What are we talking about like how do you hate I have I have not met a person that that hated fried chicken or Korean fried chicken

yeah but also I just don't make friends with people that don't eat fried chicken that's right that could be a self filtering thing yeah that's right I think you gotta like

find the commonality in the food that they do like yes I remember taking a friend who I thought was a picky eater to a birria de chivo restaurant. And so, you know, a lot of little goat bones in there.

And I just watched this dude ask for like sour cream at like a legit taqueria, right? And I was kind of scared. And then he like cracks the goat neck bones, goes and slurps out the marrow. He's Nigerian.

So he grew up eating like goat pepper soup. So he knew what he was getting himself into. It wasn't that he was picky. It was just he had the foods that he was used to. And one of them had to be, you know, goat marrow in spicy broth. And so

birria was the exact crossover. So find what things they do like and it probably is fried chicken. Think about format too. Format is it, like if people don't like meat on the bone, find a version of it without bones. If people don't like the smell of a Korean barbecue and they don't, some people are really adverse to smells, you know, like go to a Korean barbecue with like those fancy vents, you know, like think about the diner and format.

You can really sell lots of cuisines, especially like some people are like scared of like going into like those little like darker places that are like a little like, you know, like less polished dining rooms. So just think about your – the vibe, I guess, the environment. That might be a great way to get your more conservative friends involved. Good point. Hey, you two. Zach Willard here, amateur food scientist. I have just so many convictions about food for someone who will eat anything. I don't believe any food is inherently bad and that any food can be made to fit someone's taste.

But anyway, the conviction I'm here for is a discovery that I just made, and it's that instant coffee with a sprinkle of salt and cinnamon and a little dab of butter friggin' slurps. It removes that astringent quality that turns people off from instant coffee, and the newfound sweetness and richness will make you a sewer drink. Anyway, try it out. I hope you like it. Love you.

Bye. This dude has 10 cups of instant coffee deep right now. He's had it. He had a lot of it. High in his own supply. Okay. This is just bulletproof, but sexier. I'm down. Love you bye Okay, this is just bulletproof but sexier Only comment on that I'm sorry, and I'm not a Gen Z person It's cuz I just got corrected on it for my Gen Z and these are my team members, huh? music slaps food smacks Slaps.

Food smacks. Yes. Yes. Oh, my God. You're so right. I refuse. I just. I'm a language descriptivist, not a prescriptivist. Damn it.

Zach, pour over. Think about your coffee beyond instant. Just saying. You're a scientist. Scientist of a chemex. Go there, buddy. I drink instant coffee. And I'll tell you why.

So much of the world runs on Nescafe instant coffee. And when I'm going to the gym and I don't want a belly full of liquid, but I do want caffeine, I'll mix it into a sludge and then I slurp it with a spoon. I'm going to the gym and I don't want a belly full of liquid but I do want caffeine I'll mix it into a sludge and then I slurp it with a spoon I'm here for the caffeine but coffee is acidic and incredibly bitter

so salt and a little bit of fat is going to counter both of those you're just making buffalo sauce baby that's good I love it food scientist

is a food scientist love it what a perfectly unhinged opinion yeah it was a great way to end it Matt and Dookie everybody check out their new cookbook, Korea World.

It is fantastic. It's beautiful. A lot of incredible recipes in there. You guys got anything else to plug? I think we're going to be on tour. We're going to Dallas and Denver later in June. And we're going to be in Atlanta as well. So those three cities, check out our Instagram.

Our socials will be posting it. Hope to see you out. Say hey. And, you know, like and subscribe this show, please. I'm just going to do that call out. I know it's coach for the host to say that. So I'm just going to say as a guest, like and subscribe. What a great show.

I love your show. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you all so much for stopping by. We got new audio-only episodes every Wednesday. Videos come out on Sunday. Yeah.

And if you want to be featured on Opinions or like Castor Rolls, hit us up at 833-DOGPOD1. The number again is 833-DOGPOD1. You guys should call it. You got to listen to the voice. We're going to get sexy. Bye, lovelies. See you guys.