A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - In-N-Out vs. Shake Shack

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Today, Josh and Nicole take two classic burger spots, In-N-Out from the West Coast and Shake Shack from the East Coast, and put them head-to-head! Who will come out on top? Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: http://youtube.com/@ahotdogisasandwich To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Josh, why are you looking under your cups like that? Secret messages, Nicole. There's secret messages under every In-N-Out cup, and if I read enough of them, I can finally find the buried treasure from In-N-Out founder Harry Snyder. You gotta join me in the quest. Sorry, I have plans after this. That's just another Bible verse. This is a hot dog is a sandwich.

Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. I'm your host, Josh Scherer.

And I'm your host, Nicole Inayati. And we're internet chefs over at Good Mythical Morning and the Mythical Kitchen channels when we're not cooking up fancy In-N-Out hamburgers. Nicole, we are right here breaking down the world's biggest food debates. Wow, Josh, that's so true. So true, King king i hate the way that the zillennials have made us all speak i know it's horrible it's horrific well the whole thing this whole podcast is about uh in and out versus shake shack can i tell you something do you have to it feels like apples to oranges i'm gonna be honest what do you like apples to oranges. I'm going to be honest with you.

What do you mean apples to oranges? No, this is like a Honeycrisp apple to sugar bee apple. No. Do people recognize those apples or am I just? I recognize those apples. Yeah, we're apple hypebeasts. No, you're an apple hypebeast. I'm through osmosis an apple fan.

Yeah, it's like how I only know what sneakers exist because of V. Yeah, it's exactly the same. People only know what apples exist because of me. Bro, I was exactly the same. People only know what apples exist because of me. Bro, I was in Whole Foods the day the Cosmic Crisp apple dropped. Wow. I've been following

that marketing plan. Freaking Pullman, Washington dude, 30 mil behind the marketing machine on that. Huge. Worked on it for like 20 years. Crossbreed between

the Honeycrisp and the Enterprise. Anyways, the point is these are very similar products that can absolutely be compared and they're very similar for a lot of reasons. They're different for a lot, and they're very similar for a lot of reasons. They're different for a lot of reasons.

They're different for a lot of reasons. But so are apples. But these guys, I don't feel like it's fair. I feel like you're judging a burger joint over a fast, casual restaurant. Can we compare apples and oranges? I feel like you can. That's been such an idiomatic expression. I'm a fan of comparing apples to oranges.

Apples are better. Oranges are better. You have to peel an orange. You have to peel an orange. They taste peel an orange they taste better but you have to peel but that's the point what it comes the point is we can have an efficacious debate despite the fact that they're different i think right that's fair fair we can have an efficacious debate right here let's get efficacious so the reason i love talking about shake shack versus in and out is because they have really similar not backgrounds because in andOut was founded in 1948, Baldwin Hills. Like it's a contemporary of McDonald's. Totally. But the fact that people even think to compare it to

Shake Shack speaks to how tight they were with their branding, their expansion method, all that type of stuff. Yeah. The reason I say they're a little bit similar is because In-N-Out is the ultimate West Coast burger. Absolutely. They did not open an In-N-Out location outside of the Los Angeles metropolitan area until 1990. Which is crazy. Which is absolutely crazy to me. They had no desire to do so. They just couldn't find the demand. What was it?

They were very, very protective about their quality and their brand. So In-N-Out has a lot of protections around. Totally. Some people, it's like the Trader Joe's effect where they make a really good product and they're small enough to where people are like, this is healthy. All Trader Joe's things are organic. Somebody tell me they're like, well, In-N-Out only uses organic products. False. Not true at all.

You can't make an organic hamburger for like $2.79. Impossible. But they do enough good things to make people think that, right? Sure. So all their produce comes from within 24 hours. I will say their produce is some of the best produce on the burger. The best. Yeah.

I will say the crunch is undeniable. Crunchy cold lettuce. Yeah, the onions are always just like beautifully crisp. The tomatoes are always red. They're always red. It's great. It's not as you go to a Burger King or a mass market fast food chain and you're getting like that white tomato that's just mushy and has absolutely no flavor. Yeah, that never happens here.

They're always pretty well constructed and that's because they have like very, very strict training methodologies. Which I love. Same. They pay their managers. Their managers are all making six figures. I believe that's a real statistic that I read.

I think the majority of them do. A majority of them. So In-N-Out has a very, very strong corporate culture. And that's why I actually want to get an In-N-Out tattoo because I respect the fact that they did not outkick their coverage. Right. Do you think you can get free In-N-Out with an out with an in and out tattoo is that why you're doing it i'm guessing not because in the intro we talked about the bible verses there's a bible verse i don't know is it the same one on the bottom of every in and out cup i don't know is there one down here proverbs three five i think it was so

it's still a family-owned company the snyder family lindsey snyder i believe is their current president um and they have a very very strong strong, I believe, born-again Christian background. So I don't know if tattoos are like chill with the born-again Christian community. I don't know if they're like the cool youth pastors that have like a tattoo of a cross or know a weird amount of Christians that have Hebrew tattoos. Yeah, me too. Do you want to know what Proverbs 3.5 is? I would love to.

What is it? Okay. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. What does that mean? Nicole, lean not on your own understanding for all the understanding you need is contained within the animal style French fries now available for $3.49, your local In-N-Out location. Well, how do you feel about Shake Shack? So Shake Shack, on the other hand, to me, is the ultimate East Coast burger.

Yeah, this is just Biggie versus Tupac is what you're trying to say. This is Biggie versus Tupac, but this is like if Tupac were like a 65-year-old man. Okay. You know what I mean? Because In-N-Out is so much older than Shake Shack. Shake Shack started as a hot dog cart in 2001. That's right, by Danny Meyer. Danny Meyer, who was, what is it, Union Square Hospitality?

Union Square Cafe was his first auction, I believe. Yeah, Danny Meyer is a restaurateur who has written books about the industry. Big Pimpin'. Big Pimpin', right? He's considered the preeminent sort of godfather of modern hospitality. Yes. And Shake Shack is now his real, real moneymaker. Started as a hot dog cart in 2001, 2004, they opened the full service restaurant.

And then eventually in 2010, they would open their first one outside of New York City. That's awesome. In Miami. And then now Shake Shack is, it's becoming like the fancy mall burger. Yeah, I always get, I try to get Shake Shack whenever I go to the airport. If there's a Shake Shack in an airport, I'm going to get it. Yeah, it's a great- In comparison to anything else. There's actually a really good article just to diverge real quick.

There's a really cool article about all these restaurants that we think are cool are now just becoming mall restaurants. Oh. Like Shake Shack's a great example. Our kids are going to think Shake Shack is so stupid because they're like, that's just a crappy mall. Like they're going to view Shake Shack as we view Sbarro. Sbarro? I knew you were going to think of Sbarro. 100%.

I'm a Sbarro fan. At some point, I mean, it's perfectly fine. At we've used Sbarro I knew you were gonna bring up Sbarro 100% I'm a Sbarro fan though I mean it's perfectly fine at some point Sbarro is probably cool maybe I don't know I'm just saying that Orange Julius Cinnabon's a great example Cinnabon yeah yeah yeah you know a Wetzel's pretzel that used to be exciting and now you're like oh god they've just been sitting there for 9 hours

and I'm gonna get the pepperoni grease from the pizza pretzel on the Zara clothes and I feel like the Zara employees already hate me so I'm going to get the pepperoni grease from the pizza pretzel on the Zara clothes. Yeah. And I feel like the Zara employees already hate me, so I'm just not, you know, vibing with it. I will say one thing. These guys, the In-N-Out guys,

they do burgers really, really well. But the Shake Shacks do burgers a little bit less well, but they do other things just as good. But if you is a burger joint, what is more important to you the burger or anything else like no actually when how much do you wait it like do i wait what what percentage of your enjoyment of in an outer shake shack is dependent on how good the burger is like try and put a number on it uh like a 7.5 so 75 of your enjoyment is the burger and then you're getting

let's say 19 from fries six fries, 6% from a drink. I don't do milkshakes. I'm not a big milkshake person. I'm lactose intolerant. I don't understand milkshakes like with a meal. Like I love milkshakes as like a midday treat standalone. Yeah. With like meat?

Yeah. Makes me want to vomit. It's really weird. The thought of eating it together makes me want to vomit unless I'm at Johnny Rockets. Then I'm like, ah, I'm around the 50s. You know what I mean? You should have done a whole podcast about Johnny Rockets. We will, we will.

It is the greatest restaurant in the world. Don't get me started about Johnny Rockets. And my metalhead brother worked there with just the long, greasy metalhead hair. I'm not saying you that he worked at Johnny Rockets. You told me the long hair story and I knew you were going to talk about it. It had its own ecosystem inside of it.

Under the paper hat, it's just sweat. Gross. Okay. No hair in it. Getting in the food. Chili cheese fries. Stop! A lot of room to trap hair in there.

Okay, so 75% of your enjoyment is the burger. Yes! Then, like, does it really matter that much if In-N-Out's fries suck? No. I don't care about the fries. And I always get my fries well done. Same. And some people get them, like, David gets them, like, well. But for me, the fries aren't the star. The care about the fries. And I always get my fries well done. Same. And some people get them,

David gets them light well. But for me, the fries aren't the star. The burger is the star. And I respect the fact that the burger is the star of the burger joint. But again, I'm saying this is, it's not fair to compare them 100% because Shake Shack has so many other things.

They have chicken. They have hot dogs. They have tons of stuff in there. What are you doing? Oh. That's a hamburger. Look at the side. Look at the side. There's all the things on the side. Yeah, but they're very small. The hamburger is literally nine times

bigger than each of the small things on the side. They're staking their name on their burger. It's gotta be a better burger than In-N-Out to me to be compared. Like the fries are whatever. Let's talk about fries. Let's get this out of the way. Are In-N-Out's fries good? No. Do communion wafers taste good? No. But you're eating God in both

And that's the point I closed my laptop Yeah Okay Do you want to eat each fry and compare Or is it not worth it? I already know it But yeah, I'll eat the fries

I'll eat the fries Okay, can you give me one of the Shake Shack fries? Yeah, yeah Okay, yeah Shake Shack fries are better Frozen crinkle cut on a bias It's good People love these

So wait, this is a good fry It's a good fry It's not my favorite They're intentionally nostalgia-mongering With the crinkle cut on a bias. It's good. People love these. So wait, this is a good fry. It's a good fry. It's not my favorite. They're intentionally nostalgia mongering with the crinkle cut. Yeah. You know. And then In-N-Out, I respect the, I don't like the fries, but I respect the fries. The fries are good.

It's like Tom Brady. I hate Tom Brady, but I respect him. I don't care about sports. I don't know how many times I have to shove it in your face. I don't care about sports even for one moment. I don't know. Like Celine Dion. No. Who's a. I don't know. Like Celine Dion. No.

Who's a good Tom Brady? I love Celine Dion. Celine Dion. It's Dion, not Dion. Dion. Dion. Celine Dion. Celine Dion.

Okay. Now, I will say. Quebecois is the ugliest language in the world. Go ahead. What is? Quebecois. Oh, is that Canadian French? It's the ugliest language in the world.

Have you ever heard King of the Hill dubbed in Quebecois? I'm sorry. No. Obviously not, Josh. No, we have seen the same viral videos. No, we haven't. I'll show you Quebecois King of the Hill after the show. Okay, fine, fine, fine. Let me tell you, I agree with you on the In-N-Out French fry front, but the In-N-Out animal style fries are better than the cheese fries. Yeah, wait, that's a great point. Do you agree? That's a great point, 100%. All right, so In-N-Out fries. Give me an In-N-Out fry. Oh, okay. Or is that? Give me a little handful. So, these are frozen pre-bagged

fries that they are just dropping in a fryer, right? Which is a pretty good way to make fries. It's the best way to make fries. Even from an actual culinary perspective. Yeah, frozen to fry? Do it. You get the steam in the middle. You get that. You get the crust on the outside when you fry it at a high temperature. In-N-Out fries are pound for pound the worst fries in the game, but it's for a sacrificial

reason that I respect because they cook all of them fresh. What they do, they take a whole ass potato, Nicole. They put it in like a potato crusher. It's incredible. That batonnieres the potatoes right into the oil. They are showing you. They're putting their entire heart on their sleeve. They're saying, we are doing this fresh. We know this is not going to create the best product we know it is not the

most efficient but we want to show you to know where your potatoes are coming from how they're being fried and that is the in and out ethos that is the sacrificial lamb agnes day for their christian in and out born again hearts nicole that lets you know you are in good hands yeah but it's just a performance it's performance art yeah it's like uh tsa hands. Yeah, but it's just a performance. It's performance art. Yeah, it's like TSA. Yeah. Oh, damn it. But what's the point? God, these fries suck.

They're really bad fries. Like, they are bad fries. But what is the performative nature of slicing the fries in front of us doesn't do anything for me. I could totally, if they did the same thing, froze them, and then did them later, I would respect them more because they're giving me a better product. Oh, that's smart. So you see them slicing it out front. So like, you know, the grandmas who want to go in and feel good about how they're doing it the old school way. But then you're flying in the stuff in the back.

You know who does that? Who? There's a restaurant that does that. In Austin, Texas, there's a very famous barbecue restaurant called. The Salt Lick. The Salt Lick. The Salt Lick. You go into the Salt Lick, it's like

the Disneyland of barbecue. Started off as a small, legit, open pit operation. But now it seats like 9 million people and everyone's just hammered drunk outside, including this guy playing horseshoes and cornhole. But they have this big open pit that you see all the meat hanging from.

That's like 2% of the meat that the restaurant serves. The rest of it is being smoked in an off-site factory that's what i'm saying trucked in and they're hacking it up that's the way to do i understand that internet has integrity and that they want to show that they're doing things fresh and in front of you but what's the point like if people are going to have responses like that and like you know if you're just going to get constantly like poo-pooed on because your fries are right how about you show people that you are doing it but you're just gonna you know save it for later that's what i would do i would come in to in and out and i would tell them to do that and i'd be like your product

will be better and people will stop saying your fries suck neither of us are necessarily marketing professionals but we could be and we're also the smartest people i've ever met you really think so what do you think the benefits or drawbacks would be of in and out say doing that slicing potatoes fresh but then freezing them and frying them to actually make good fries? I think it's the best idea in the world. Because headlines galore, right? Everybody would write about

that. They get millions upon billions of impressions. But that is also the first level of the decline of the Roman Empire. Stop it. No, I'm saying that's the slippery slope that you run. Well, let me tell you, they've already changed the chilies. I don't know if you know about this. They used to have these beautiful full chilies, the peperoncinos.

They were tiny. They were delicious. And now they're sliced. They're sliced. It angers me on like another level. I want to just bite. I want to bite the chili and I want to put the juice on the french fries. And that's really yummy to me.

Oh, I love the way those chilies explode in your mouth. Yeah, but I can't do it anymore. So they've taken that away from me. So what they should do instead is just buy another freezer at every single freaking In-N-Out and then just make the potatoes better and then bring back the chilies, please. The cracks in the wall have already started. I know. All right, let's talk about the burger.

So In-N-Out Burger, it is like a, it's just like a white hamburger bun. It's toasted very, very well. I get my bun well done. I never asked for it. I just, I don't have like a complicated in and out order. You don't? What is it? I kind of do.

So I actually prefer a single cheeseburger. And I go onions two ways, which means grilled and raw. Okay. Sometimes I used to go whole grilled and I used to add chopped chilies, but now it's simple cheeseburger, onions two ways. Boom.

If I'm really feeling frisky, I'll get animal fries. Yeah. And then I'll get a diet Coke and put a splash of pink lemonade in there. Nice. And that's my move. And I got a side of ketchup and a side of spread, which is a Thousand Island. Love spread.

Actually, I was going to say it's the best in the game. Shake Shack's version of Thousand Island is better. Honestly, it's really good. It is better. But again, they had 42 more years to practice. Yeah, that's true. That's true. They in and out ran so Shake Shack could run slightly faster.

Yeah. No, let me tell you. No, no, no. Let me tell you. In and out, they still innovate. You know, they had the hot chocolate launch. That was a big deal. And people love the hot chocolate.

Forgot about that. Yeah, and if you're a kid, you get it for free. Did you know that? There's no worse drink in the world with a hamburger than a hot chocolate. What about a milkshake? Milkshake's better because at least it's cold. It's for the kids. It's for the kids.

Okay, yeah. The kids love it. It's for the kids when it's cold outside. I get it. And I've been through the drive-thru to get a milkshake or get a hot chocolate after the beach. I will say that the buns at been through the drive-thru to get a milkshake or get a hot chocolate after the beach. I will say that the buns at Shake Shack. Stop eating the fries.

I will say the buns at Shake Shack are phenomenal. They're squishy. Are they Martin's potato rolls? They're Martin's potato rolls. I knew it. I knew it. So you have like, let's go bun for bun. So a well-toasted, normal-ass white hamburger bun.

Normal-ass bun. That is split into two pieces, right? Because Shake Shack does the opposite. Martin's potato rolls, lightly toasted, hinged bun at the back, which I don't think I enjoy. Oh! The paper's the hinge and the bun. Um, I kind of

respect it because when you eat, it pushes down. Yeah. So I kind of like the fact that it's hinged. But then you get the burger that's like sticking out like it's hung and I don't like that. It doesn't do that. No, because they front load it. That's not true. They front load it. Where's the hamburger? It's over there. Let's eat this. Let's eat this damn thing. Let's look at it. Don't you see it's hinged. But then they get the burger that's like sticking out like it's hung and I don't like that. It doesn't do that. No, because they front load it. That's not true. They front load it. Where's the hamburger?

It's over there. Let's eat this. Let's eat this damn thing. Let's look at it. Don't you see it's front loaded? It's loaded in the front. What the hell is this? What the hell is this shit?

It's front loaded. What do you mean front loaded? I don't want front loaded. I want the bun to be symmetrical. You're asking too much. What do you mean asking too much? The internet does it. That's not where it is.

Like this to me is so much more pleasant. It is. It is more pleasant. You know what I mean? I understand where you're coming from. Yeah. But. Come on.

I like the bun more. I like the bun. So you're getting a softer, cakier bun at Shake Shack. Yeah. Here it's a little bit crustier and especially with the hard toast i don't love martin's potato rolls and has nothing to do with their bad politics i do um because they're bad no no i like i don't even know what their politics are just like their bread i think they just support uh conservative candidates because they're a big

business oh i'm sorry doesn't it do that too yeah definitely of course every what big businesses are going to support the lack of regulations that's. That's welcome to how the world works. But anyways, I don't love the cakiness of its meat. It's too sweet. I love a good King's wine roll, but when it comes to a burger, I want a neutral bun and I want it well toasted. I give the advantage to In-N-Out, but I understand if people don't. And I think most people wouldn't. How about the meat quality? Meat quality? In-N-Out, I believe, gets most of the meat from harris ranch i think shake out shake shack has better meat shake shack has better meat so shake shack is a proper smash

burger proper burgers are a quarter pound at in and out burgers are an eighth of a pound pounds ever you get a double double it's still significantly cheaper than a shake shack burger totally and you're getting two pieces of cheese because that's what in and out is known for it is a double doubledouble. Yeah. Like the burgers are still nice and crusty but it's not like a smash burger.

You're not forcing the Myriad reaction. No, no, no, no, no. But then you get the two slices of cheese that steam from the burger meat in there. It's pretty delicious.

As far as meat quality goes, Shake Shack, I think, has the edge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as a whole burger experience, what do you think is the better burger experience as a whole?

I, unequipped Nicole, I am wearing an athletic wear beanie. I am wearing a t-shirt from an all-girl indie band. I am wearing vans with no socks. I'm a Southern California man through and through, Nicole. I will die before I pledge allegiance to Shake Shack over In-N-Out. I know, I'm the same.

I think In-N-Out is the most incredible burger, but I do respect Shake Shack for having really good chicken options. Chicken options? What the hell are we talking about? Chicken options in a burger battle? Have you ever had their little chicken nuggets? They're so good. As somebody who grew up with a lot of Indian Americans near a lot of In-N-Outs, I will tell you, In-N-Out is the best place for a vegetarian. And you'll say they do not have any vegetarian options on the menu.

But they do. The grilled cheese. I love the grilled cheese. I grew up on the grilled cheese, Josh. I'm trying to make shakes. I feel wanted and needed. You stuff the french fries in the grilled cheese. That's called monkey style, right? Okay, so it is called monkey style, but that was the thing that Food Beast made up. It was fake. Yeah, shout out to

Eli. Thanks a lot, Eli, you liar. Yeah, they actually got a lot of hate for that. They were like, you're is called monkey salad. That was the thing that Food Beast made up. It was fake. Yeah, shout out to Eli. Thanks a lot, Eli, you liar. Yeah, they actually got a lot of hate for that. They were like, you're supposed to be journalists. And he was like, I don't know. It's called Food Beast. I'm literally just vibing. Condiments, Shake Shack sauce is a little bit better. Wait, I want to talk about chicken.

Why are you talking about chicken? Talk about chicken. I like the chicken at Shake Shack. I think their chicken sandwiches. It's inconsistent. It's white meat. It should be dark meat. It's hard to cook white meat consistently.

The batter? Unless you are processing it really hard. The batter? Let me speak. Speak. The batter on the chicken is phenomenal. And the fact that you can get it at the same place you can get a burger is great because it gives people options if they don't eat red meat.

And I think it's really yummy. Are you drinking milkshakes without me? Oh, it's so stupid how much better Shake eat red meat. And I think it's really yummy. Are you drinking milkshakes without me? Oh, it's so stupid how much better Shake Shack Shake is. Oh, my God. I will say Shake Shack's milkshake game is bar none. Not even Johnny Rockets can hold a candle. I will have a sippy sip.

Oh, shoot. It's more yellow-er in and out. As somebody who has an incredibly high tolerance for chemicals in food, whatever is in the in and out milkshake freaks me the hell out because it melts thick and warm. Melted ice cream should not be that thick. When ice cream melts, the texture should change. It does not change in this, only the temperature. It stays thick. I don't know the ingredients in it.

I would be willing to guess there's a bunch of guar gum xanthan gum all that and it's not from an ethical perspective or a health perspective that i give a fly and shi double hockey sticks it just to me tastes really bad like oh god it's a bit melted because we're under the lights and doing a podcast can i tell you the truth yeah that's shake shack milkshake was like the most positive endorphins i've had in like a month same oh my god oh my god is there like salt in there yeah are you smiling from the inside milkshake i'm smiling from the inside never tasted anything that good in my life oh god what the hell i want to bathe it let's see shoot do you want to eat this hamburger yeah you go first. Okay. I will say their tomatoes are always smaller at Shake Shack.

Produce, green leaf lettuce, ass. Yeah. Bad burger lettuce. Yeah, ass. It's a bad burger lettuce. It is ass lettuce. Number 15. Ass lettuce.

Burger King foot lettuce. Let me get it. Oh, no. It's so good. It's pretty. Yeah, it is good. I know it's good. I make a good hamburger.

Yum. Delicious. I think it's delicious. I'm about to say. I make a good hamburger. Yum. Delicious. I think it's delicious. I'm about to say something that I'll probably regret. It is very controversial. Let it fly, Joshie. The point of a hamburger is not the meat. The meat could be almost anything.

It's the whole experience. Hamburgers are meant to be made with crappy beef, right? I agree. Of course. The beef is there to be a little bit of sustenance. Yeah. You even look at like, what is it? The Mississippi Slug Burger.

Is that the, which one is that? It's like 30% beef, 70% cornmeal made during the Great Depression. Oh, yes. I saw Emmy made in Japan made it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Emmy made in Japan made it. Really cool history behind it. But the point is like, this to me is almost too high of a beef to other things ratio.

I understand exactly what you're saying. And I need to taste the In-N-Out to confirm. And I'll eat like a no produce burger, of course. Like I still love just a plain cheese, meat, sauce, pickle, whatever. And that's like a really popular format right now. But for a fast food burger, like, bro, I want the double lettuce. I want the crunch. I want the double tomato.

I want the double lettuce. You know what I mean? I want it to ooze sauce like this. Yeah, I get it. I totally get it. This is exciting for me. It is. It's a better looking burger for sure.

It's also a better experience, I feel like. Also, there's nothing like going to In-N-Out. It's like, you know, it's like 11 p.m. You're out partying with the homies. You find the little swoosh. Life makes sense. I'm writhing in my own pleasure like a character in an Anne Rice romance novel.

Shout out to anyone who gets that reference. I went through an Anne Rice phase. I was on the back to Fifty Shades, and I was like, you know. It is good. And Anne Rice actually came out in support of E.L. James. It is a really good eating experience. Remember that.

Does that change your perspective at all? I love In-N-Out so much. Do we have to, like, really uncover our own biases here? Please wipe your mouth, Josh. Maggie, please wipe your fingers for typing that. How dare you? I like how I wiped it right before I go back in. I am finding myself leaning towards Josh.

Be civil. Oh, yeah. What the heck I'm talking about? I find myself reaching for the Shake Shack burger more because it tastes more burger-y. What do you mean more burger-y? Let's unpack that. Let's unpack that. What does burger-y mean to you?

I can taste the meat and cheese are married in a very delicious way. To me, it's not about the meat and cheese marriage. To me, a burger is not a monogamous relationship. It's a big polyamorous. It's a big polycule, right? Maybe the pickles are coming to play today. It's a polyamorous FF. Maybe there's sauce.

Because even like we got this animal style. I don't even normally get animal style but i think i requested an animal style let me throw this out there let me throw this equation out there oh so yeah good call maggie maggie you can just like say stuff too if you want to you don't have to make you shy animal style for those you don't know it is the secret menu of in and out which is not secret at all and in fact in and out does own a de facto copyright because they once sued a place called Cali Burger for using the term animal style. Yo, I remember that place. Yeah, Cali Burger.

So there's this Chinese In-N-Out knockoff. And they once threatened to sue me for calling him a Chinese In-N-Out knockoff. So hopefully they don't do that again. Weird spot. But anyway, you go to In-N-Out, you get an animal style burger. They are mustard frying the patties, which means they shmear mustard on it and they fry off the patties, which I don't really necessarily need. You get pickles on it. They normally don't put pickles on their burgers, which is kind of strange, but whatever.

And then you get extra spread, which is their Thousand Island sauce. I don't get animal style burgers. I love pickles on a burger normally, but not at In-N-Out. Because to me, the spread offers enough acid with the chopped pickles in there. I get extra pickles. Really? You want to not an In-N-Out. Because to me, the spread offers enough acid with the chopped pickles in there. I get extra pickles. Really? You want to know my In-N-Out order? Yes.

Cheeseburger, animal style, bun well done, extra pickles, extra sauce. What is that about? What is that about? What is that about? Cheeseburger, animal style, bun well done, extra pickles, extra sauce. Animal style is already extra pickles and extra sauce. I want both. I want both. I want more. I will

say, you were talking about vegetarianism? Yeah. Shake Shack has a shroomer. The shroomer is bad. Yeah. They take a whole portobello mushroom and this is the risky run. When you stick your neck out like that, this is the reason I love In-N-Out. They're not trying to change anything, right?

They are sticking to their core competencies, and that's why I love them. That's why I don't want the tattoo. What? I'm eating a pickle while you're speaking, and I don't want it to mar your words. Your Shake Shack, you want to offer a vegetarian option. You take a whole portobello mushroom cap. I don't doubt that the first person in their test kitchen

who made this did a good job of it. But when you're just, like, frying a whole portobello mushroom cap, you don't know how dirty the mushrooms are. You don't know if you've expanded so fast that you don't know how well your employees are cleaning the mushrooms. Gills? You don't know if they've got gills on the mushrooms.

You can't quality control when you have so many different kinds of produce coming in. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then every mushroom burger that I've had there has been just tough and leathery. It's weird. And watery. Yeah, it's weird. And it's bad.

And that is, to me, the downfall of Shake Shack. And they've expanded so fast. They're in all these freaking malls. They're in airports. Corporate restaurants don't even control their airport locations. That's crazy to me. They're run by a separate company inside the airport. You're effectively doing a licensing deal.

That's wild. You know? And so for me, like, that is what I love about In-N-Out. It is the consistency. Yeah. All In-N-Out burgers I've ever had have been within, like, a 10 percentile range of how good they are, how well they are made, how proportional, how fresh. Fair.

All this Shake Shack, I've gotten wildly different experiences. That's true. I think consistency-wise, In-N-Out definitely beats them out. But I find myself eating the fries at Shake Shack more, drinking the milkshake at Shake Shack more, even kind of liking the burger a little bit more. Maybe it's just the way I'm eating it right now. I find the burger so much more of an attractive burger eating experience. Is it because it's younger? No.

Younger and sexier? Leo DiCaprio? Is that why you like Shake Shack better? I love old people. I think old people are hot. You actually... Wait, who's the hottest old person? I can't tell you. What?

Whisper it. I can't tell you. You're going to judge me. You always judge me. Is it the guy from the Dos Equis commercials? No, but he's a close second. I think he's the hottest old guy.

He's a close second. The Gordon's Fisherman? My first crush ever on a man was Clint Eastwood. He's hot. And he used to be really handsome when he was like not like an old man.

Like too old. Whatever, this podcast is going into a weird direction. I like In-N-Out as a whole more, but I am finding Shake Shack's products individually to be quite delicious and quite enjoyable. But I love In-N-Out and I always love In-N-Out. You cannot separate from the Gestalt.

Josh, if we bring up Gestalt one more time. I will bring up the Gestalt. I'm walking away. Every time I shall bring up the Gestalt. Please don't yell at me in a German accent.

You have generational trauma from that. No, not even. Let's talk about ambiance. Let's talk about ambiance. You walk into a Shake Shack, you walk into In-N-Out, where are you happier?

In-N-Out. Why are you happier in In-N-Out? I don't know. Break it down. Nicole, you are walking into In-N-Out, you see all the in In-N-Out? I don't know. Break it down. Nicole, you are walking in In-N-Out. You see all the booze there.

You're seeing the red and the yellow and the white. This milkshake is so good. I'm going to slide that milkshake. It's so good. Versus Shake Shack. It feels like you're in a weird corporate influencer dentist office. I will say that. I will say the ambiance at In-N-Out, very different.

Also, the service at In-N-Out is bar none. Bar none. I love the service at In-N-Out. I'm not a, the service at In-N-Out is bar none. Bar none. I love the service at In-N-Out. I'm not a drive-thru guy. I hate going through drive-thrus. I love eating inside fast food restaurants because I love great service. Shout out to the dude at the Arby's in Laguna Hills who helped my grandma out. You really remind me of my brothers in so many ways. It's so funny to me.

Yeah, me and your brother are the same person. It's so funny. I remember when we were talking at Rosh Hashanah and it was just like, it was like the same person. Was it like looking into a Persian mirror? Yeah, straight up just like a little Sephardi like reflector pad oh my god

yeah he's the same way there's something about eating fast food in a fast food restaurant that hits in a very very specific way I agree that when you're divorcing the products

from their location their environment yeah I think pound for pound Shake Shack wins on taste yes that is not why we go to restaurants that is not why we go to restaurants.

That is not why we eat food. That is not the only thing that comes into our decision making. And I understand that we're biased as West Coasters. And I'm going to preempt this because every single person that is not from California is going to go, I went to California once and had one In-N-Out and it sucks. And I'm interesting for disliking the thing that you like. And I do that with many things as well. Whataburger, I think, is absolutely trash, and I think these regional rivalries that mean nothing are part of the spice of life, right?

That's right. Some might say it's strange nationalistic pride. All's I say is this is a fantastic hamburger, and I think objectively they do a fantastic job at a lot of things, and they make me incredibly happy, make a lot of people incredibly happy. How do you feel about Culver's? Cut! Butter, baby! and they make me incredibly happy, make a lot of people incredibly happy. How do you feel about Culver's? Cut. Butter, baby. All right, Nicole. We've heard what you and I have to say.

Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the universe. It's time for a segment we call Opinions Like Casseroles. Yeah, we do call it that all right let's listen to our first one okay hi josh and nicole this is will love the podcast um my opinion is one that has actually gotten into a bit of a thing with me and my fiance is that, um, I believe eggs belong in macaroni and cheese.

Okay. Now, what I'm saying is you boil the noodles, you get out a baking sheet, you put the noodles in there, you make an egg and cheese mixture. You whip it up. You also put some cheese in with the noodles.

That's where they have their cheese on it too. And then you pour the egg mixture into the baking pan with the macaroni, and you bake that off. You can top it with breadcrumbs and Parmesan cheese for a little crunchy top if you want. You bake it until the top of the macaroni gets crunchy, so you get some crunch in there. You have the ooey-gooeyness of the cooked egg with cheese, and it's just so good. My fiancé does not agree that egg belongs in macaroni and cheese. Can you please tell her how I am correct? Hi. You're not objectively correct, but there is like historical precedent for what you're saying. And this is a big debate among a lot of people.

Yeah. I'm looking something up right now. Nicole, you go. So there's a lot of recipes that whenever you're using evaporated milk, you use the eggs to help thicken and the cheese also thickens. So it makes sense that you would do that. But I don't love putting eggs in my mac and cheese, but that's just me. If it gives you a really good mac and cheese and you don't taste any eggy flavor, I say go for it. To me, the eggs are used as a texture thing to make it more of a solid brick. So you can cut it. So not necessarily so you can cut it, just so

it comes out easier. You don't get the runniness of the cheese. And a lot of people don't get that if you're baking, if you're making a roux, if you're doing that. Totally. But I do. To me, they're two completely different experiences, and it all comes down to taste, right? Totally. De gustibus non est disputandum.

There's no accounting for taste, Nicole. Don't despite my tastes. God dang right. I'm thinking about a lot of Caribbean countries. They have a thing called macaroni pie. Shout out Rashida Holmes of Bridgetown Roti for making macaroni pie. And it is like completely a brick. You slice it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just this dense, cheesy, chewy, delightful experience. And that comes from the eggs making it dense like that. Yeah. And to me, it can like hold more cheesy flavor that way. But that said, if you're somebody who loves a creamy mac and cheese, to me, there's so many different styles of mac and cheese from stovetop to bake, top it with the breadcrumb, whatever you want.

Do an egg, eggy macaroni pie, you know, so you're not wrong. She's not wrong. Neither of you have reason to hate each other i don't think they hate each other no it sounds like this relationship's over that's what i'm reading this is irreconcilable it's totally concilable there's life after relationships it is it is consolable concilable i think reconcilable it is it is reconable. You can reconcilabilitate it. I think love is great, and macaroni and cheese should not be the reason why you guys are having a little riff. I don't think it...

We should be relationship counselors. I am one. No, I'm just kidding. I'm not. Please don't sue me. Okay, that was unexpected. Hey, this is Charity, and I get meds fun all the time in my friend group, but Reese's Cups and pepperoni. Reese's Cups. Take a Reese's Cup, put a pepperoni on top, put a pepperoni on the bottom, eat it in one bite. Reese's Cups.

Fantastic. Salty and sweet. And also peanut butter and bologna. Okay. Yeah, that's a pattern. Salty sweet, super great. I think more people should do this combo and not make fun of me for it. Love you guys.

Charity, charity, charity. I'm not making fun of you for it. I think this is you and you alone. This is your thing. I think this is your thing. And if people are going to make fun of you for it, you say, hey, this is my thing. And if you don't like it, close your eyes or turn around. Let's look at the similarities here.

Both involve heavily processed deli meats and peanut butter. I think you need to get a full diagnostic panel from your doctor to figure out if you have like a nitrate deficiency or like a monounsaturated fat. Like your hormone level is because you have too low fat of a diet like i think there's something your body is telling you your body like memento he has all the messages written on him your body has all the messages written on it in your cravings and i'm wondering what is causing this maybe it's just yummy for her no i'm kidding that's probably yummy for you also i i do think like pepperoni and pineapple is a better combination on pizza than ham or bacon and pineapple.

Yeah. I think we got so far in the rabbit hole. I don't think she said anything about pineapple though. No, no, she didn't. But I'm saying pepperoni with sweet things. Pepperoni with sweet things because a lot of people candied bacon as a thing. Sure. We went through the like epic bacon moment.

Yeah. You know what I mean? In society. But pepperoni to me pairs better with sweeter things. I think it's saltier than bacon. It's spicier. It's more piqu sure I do like like sweet things with pepperoni really work honey on pepperoni is fantastic yeah why not peanut butter why not chocolate I suppose the bologna is a little off-putting we need to talk about yeah the bologna doesn't have

quite that you know um but also I reckon you're from the south there um dated a girl whose family is from Louisville Kentucky and they turned me on to the mayonnaise and peanut butter sandwiches. And so, like, listen, I'm down with the South Seas of peanut butter. You know, it's a Southern product at its core. Shout out George Washington Carver. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for all your contributions to society.

What I'm most interested by is your pronunciation of Reese's. Reese's Cups. And I know that's a regional derivation. It was a man named Reese, and he has a peanut butter cup. That is Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. Where Reese's Cup came from, because Link says the same thing. Oh, really? Link says Reese's Cups.

I did not know that. And Link loves himself some Reese's Cups. I had no idea. And to me, it's one of the most fascinating regionalisms that's out there. It's that and then the Philadelphia way of pronouncing water. How do they say it in Philly? They say water. Water? Like you had a cup of Rita's out there. It's that and then the Philadelphia way of pronouncing water. How do they say it in Philly? They say water. Water?

Like you had a cup of Rita's water ice. You made a glass of water. I got a cup of Rita's water ice. Yeah. With a Riti cup. Also, when I was in South Africa, I don't know if you know this, when I was in South Africa,

that was one of the words that we would ask for water. We pronounce water real dumb in America. Water. Give me some water. Water. Water. Water. We would have to start

pronouncing it like, hey, can I please get a glass of water? Water. You would have to start saying that because they wouldn't understand water. Water bottle.

Water. Water bottle. I have a water bottle. Water bottle. Like I'm from Essex, got a water bottle out there. Water bottle. Thanks, love.

All right. There needs to be more savory yogurt options. Like I'm from Essex, got a water bottle out there. Water bottle. Thanks, love. There needs to be more savory yogurt options. I'm tired of having a sweet yogurt be a snack. I want something savory. Yeah. Smart. Okay, yeah. I'm all about this.

I love a spoonful of yogurt. How many other cultures eat sweet yogurt? I don't know. Like in Persian food. Is many other cultures eat sweet yogurt? I don't know. Like in Persian food, is there a lot of sweet yogurt? No. Would you just put fruit and yogurt together? No. Right?

We put like mint. Yeah, that's like it, but like mint's not sweet. Mint and shallots. It smells sweet and it can, yeah. Yeah, no, typically we don't. Bromastomous here? Get the hell out of here. It's my favorite. Yeah, I would say that you don't need to have sweet yogurt.

Just buy a tub of regular plain yogurt, regular plain Greek, or regular Bulgarian yogurt, one of my favorite yogurts, and just do that. But Manz doesn't want to do his own. Manz wants to have a Yoplait has Boston cream pie, key lime pie flavor. Oh, no, you can't do that. Peaches at the bottom. No, no, no. Peaches at the bottom. No, no, no. Whipped peaches at the bottom.

No, no, no, no, no. I don't think you're going to get that. But what would your initial line be of savory flavored yogurts? I don't want to do that as a business. Butternut squash and sage. I don't want to do it as a business option. Zatar and olive oil. I think whoever sent in this opinion, you can create it and you can sell it to Walmart

and you can make millions of dollars. Roasted tomato and basil. Great. Yeah, he should do that. Somag. He should do that. You can't it to Walmart. And you can make millions of dollars. Roasted tomato and basil. Great. Yeah, he should do that. Somag. He should do that. You can't do somag. Start your savory gogurt so you can eat it on the go.

I want to eat it in the gym. No savory gogurt. I want to be slurping down. But savory yogurt like in a Yoplait container, I totally support. And you should make it happen. Make your own dreams come true. No one's going to make your dreams come true for you. Nobody.

We should start like an alpha male grind set podcast. To be a high value man, but then yeah, you also come in and be like, yeah, high value man. I don't sound like that. But you have to because I don't sound like that. If you want to be a high value woman, you have to wear high heels 24-7.

Even in bed, just wear them. Your feet will get used to it. Is that good? That's pretty good. Thank you. Yo, hello, Josh. Hi, Nicole. I'm Marwan. I'm from Iraq.

I would love to see you guys try the Iraqi cuisine one day. Okay. I know Josh has a strong background about Middle Eastern food, and also Nicole is from Iran, so Iraqi food is quite close to the Iranian food so I would love to see you try it guys

or at least speak about it and see what you think much love lads have a good one let's do it much love Khabibi my favorite Iraqi dish

I have ever had it is called I believe Kube Halabi or something like that it's a style of Kube which is is like, I believe, a dumpling. Like a minced meat dumpling.

Okay. But it was our, when I was in Israel, it was our Iraqi bus driver's wife literally just like made him lunch. And it was like a soup that was tinge red with beets. And then it had this like minced meat dumpling, almost like I'd call it a crepe lox from the ashkenazi perspective um and this guy just knew i was super interested in food because i was just asking every single person what they eat how it was made all that and so he just like shared a little bit of his lunch that his wife made for him sweet um and it was just such a spectacular dish and i think we get in america so much of the Middle Eastern food that we get. It's just it's kabob. It's yeah, it's a mishmash.

It's people who are trying to play the lowest common denominator to sell food, right? They're selling shawarma, they're selling kabob. Yeah, you have to. Of course, it's the same with Chinese food and Mexican food a lot of the times. And so we miss out on a lot of these really incredible, very regional, personal, home-cooked style foods from so many Middle Eastern countries. And you lose a lot of those identities when you come into America because we favor the melting pot over here.

Yeah, we do. You know, so I would love to travel to Iraq. I would love to try Iraqi food. I'm sure there's tons of restaurants here. We just need to go find them. Yo, are any Iraqis in LA want to have us over to dinner? Please, that'd be really rad.

Oh my gosh, that would be my dream. Oh, actually actually my old bosses are iraqi yeah yeah hit them up do you want to meet them yeah can we just go over i don't know how i would feel if my old boss met my new boss whatever two alphas you know like two rams button horn okay wait noelle and wasim if you're watching this or listening to this podcast we're gonna come over for iraqi food hell yeah yeah. Which seems half Jordanian. Hey, again, intersectionality. I think the dish I had was actually Kurdish-Iraqi.

Oh, maybe. I think he was Kurdish ethnically. Anyway, the point is the world of food is vast and numerous out there and beautiful and it brings people together, but also divides us in many ways. Thank you so much for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Up at 9, we will be playing in... Never mind. I can't keep that up. It's too very silly.

I love NPR. Shout out. And on that note, thank you for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We've got new audio-only episodes every Wednesday and a video version over on YouTube every Friday. If you want a new feature on Opinions or Cast Rules, you can hit us up at 833-DOGPOD1. The number again is 833-DOGPOD1. For more Mythical Kitchen, check us out on YouTube where we launch new videos every week.

We'll see you next time.