A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Is A Hot Dog A Sandwich? ft. The Businessperson, Morgan Walsh (Part 4)

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

Today, we're joined by businessperson Morgan Walsh in part 4 of our series that attempts to answer the question on all of our minds: is a hot dog a sandwich? Get your tickets now for Good Mythical Evening 2022, exclusively on Moment House! Click here to find out more: https://mythic.al/AHDIASGME Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Josh, I have a business opportunity for you. Oh, is this another Shark Tank pitch? Let's open a hot dog stand. Do you mean a sandwich shop? Oh my gosh. This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Or is it?

Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show where we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Nicole Inaydi.

And I'm your host, Josh Ayer. And today is part four of our quest to determine once and for all our official podcast stance on if a hot dog is a sandwich or not, or if it is. We don't know. Hold on, official podcast stance. Like, we are presupposing that you and I can feasibly come to a conclusion. I would like us to, eventually. We've done, what, 100-some episodes,

and despite all the debates we've had, how many times has the other person actually truly swayed the other person? You sway me, like, all the time. Yeah, that's fair. Well, I gaslight you. People talk about that. You do brain warfare all the time. Yeah, that's fair. Well, I gaslight you. People talk about that. You do brain warfare on me

and you make me feel small. You make me feel small, Josh. God, do I really? I'm sorry. No, it's a joke. I don't mean that. Okay, good, good, good. But yeah, today we just had

an incredible conversation with Morgan Walsh. She is the first person who actually has a real connection to hot dogs. A close connection. A close connection. We all have a connection

to hot dogs, but she has a close connection because she is the business owner of Cubits Hot Dogs. We found her because she went viral on TikTok. She saved her family's longstanding hot dog business by roller skating. Super cool. Out there. Yeah. Went big on TikTok. And that's how we found her.

And it was a really incredible conversation. And this is the first time that we get to one of the subjects that a lot of people bring up in this debate, which is that hot dogs are frigging special. Totally. Yeah. We get an emotional kind of perspective, which is really, really nice. Instead of all the strict like rules and confines, you know, it's really interesting. We get emotional with it. So if you were sick of us talking about what Socrates would have said about hot dogs or talking about Supreme

Court cases, which I still find very fascinating. I mean, this is it. This is, you know, food isn't all just about weird academic theory. It's some freaking things that people eat, they put in their mouths to make themselves happy and remind them of good times and nourish their bodies. And so this, to me, this is a very formative conversation in my life. Morgan is super, super cool. And so this to me, this is a very formative conversation in my life. Morgan is super, super cool. And so enjoy. Buckle up. Morgan Walsh.

Hello. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I love it. Yeah. This is the first guest we've had in person, which is very special to us. Very. Yes, yes, yes. So Nicole and I are on now our roughly fourth hour of debating whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich. So, do you mind if I give you a little rundown of what we've

discovered over these four hours? Yes, please do. Perfect, because this is important to get the context of where we're at now and where we are going with this. So, first up, we talked to a historian, Ken Albala, and he said a sandwich is defined as it was defined when the term was originally created in 1762, which is to say it must have two distinct slices of bread. However, he does admit you get into a sticky situation when trying to describe the food commonly known as a sausage

sandwich. He straight up says, a hot dog is not a sandwich, and even though we say sausage sandwich, that's also not a sandwich. We just don't have the words to reflect that. So that's our historian's perspective. And then, Morgan, yeah, I hope, do you know what you got yourself into on this? Uh, no, but I'm excited to find that. So that's our historian's perspective. And then, Morgan, do you know what you got yourself into on this? No, but I'm excited to find out. Hell yeah.

Let's do this. I'm ready. Then we talked to a philosopher. This is a Cartesian metaphysicist, Calvin Normor. He said, since sandwiches are a human-made artifact, there is no truth to them. A tree, for instance, long predates us. There's a truth to what a tree is, but a sandwich was made by humans, so they exist on a continuum of the perfect sandwich, say a ham on rye, to a vast aberration like an Oreo.

It's up to humans to decide where we draw the line, much like how we define a car, right? Like, is a golf cart a car? Probably not. Depends on who you ask. Yeah. If you're my Nana's retirement home in Florida, that's all they drive. Why isn't that a car? But he also admits that it's a judgment call, so you're going to get a lot of weird bias going on.

And then we talked to a lawyer. This is the person who would draw these lines in society on what is or isn't a sandwich. And he said a perfect legal framework for what constitutes a sandwich will never exist. It needs cases and precedent to refine a common sense definition. So you can come up with a framework, but then there's always going to be some exception to the rule that you're going to have to litigate and argue over. He also said, though, if you classify a sub as a sandwich, something say from Subway, a hero, a grinder, a hoagie, you must classify a hot dog as a sandwich.

However, he admits that seems inherently wrong to force a unique cultural food such as a pita, John Bing, a crepe into the framework of a sandwich. So here we are. Morgan, we have gone through so much academic hot dog theory, but at the end of the damn day, I have had outlines on my computer talking about Supreme Court cases that I've researched from the night. Wow. Screw the computer, screw the outlines, right? Hot dogs aren't about academic theory. It's not about breaking down every single minutia of it.

Hot dogs are freaking hot dogs. They're about people. We want to talk to somebody who a large part of their life is actually selling hot dogs, and that's you. Well, yeah, I was going to say, you called the right person. My family's been in the hot dog business for 76 years now. Hot bless. So we know a thing or two about hot dogs at this point in the game i'm feeling pretty passionate about a hot dog not being a sandwich

okay yeah but i'm also very open to hearing what you guys have to say because you've clearly like dove into this a little further than i have my first initial thought is like well if you go to subway a hot dog isn't on the menu it's a sandwich, if you go to Subway, a hot dog isn't on the menu. It's a sandwich shop. If you go to a sandwich shop, there's no hot dogs there. And if you go to a place where the menu has multiple things, there's a sandwich category and the hot dogs not going to be on there. Well, I will say sometimes, sometimes a hot dog is in the sandwich category. And I'm going to give a very stupid example.

This is the first thing that comes to mind. sandwich category and I'm going to give a very stupid example. This is the first thing that comes to mind. When I went to Las Vegas when I was like 13 with my dad, we went to Planet Hollywood despite the fact that we're like from Southern California and didn't realize that was for like the folks from Kansas to go to, you know what I mean? But they had a

sandwiches category and in the sandwiches category was a loaded Pink's hot dog that they were selling for probably $19. How do you remember this? You were 13 and you remember being like the hot dog was that was they were selling for probably 19 dollars um how do you remember this you were 13 and you remember being like the hot dog was on the sandwich category yeah i got a weird brain one thing i don't know about josh is uh he doesn't remember like what he had for breakfast but he can remember facts from like 14 years ago that he learned maybe in school by one

person don't know where my car keys are right now. If anybody finds my car keys, that would be rad. I got to drive home eventually. And so occasionally it will, but that also doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right. And you remember it because it didn't feel right. Whereas if it felt right, you would not remember it today. That's very true. My other thought was condiments, right?

So if you're making a sandwich, your condiments are going directly onto the bread. You're making a hot dog, your condiments are going directly onto the bread you're making a hot dog your condiments are going onto the meat oh shoot do you know what i'm saying so for me that's a distinguishing characteristic similar to like a taco right because now you're opening the floodgates a hamburger sandwich is a taco sandwich and i feel like pretty similar with like the tacos like you're putting the meat first. Yeah. Then you're putting condiments. Well, taco is, okay, so if you can see the shirt that I'm wearing right now, it says a hot dog is a sandwich. And I have very staunchly been a member of team hot dog is a sandwich for a long time. I mean, I tried to go into this with an open mind and I heard everything that the historian had to say. But to me, it wasn't all that compelling, especially when he said, well, a sausage sandwich isn't a sandwich. say, but to me, it wasn't all that compelling, especially when he said, well, a sausage sandwich isn't a sandwich.

But that said, when you start talking about tacos being a sandwich to me, I have a visceral reaction that like absolutely not. Because a taco is something that, I mean, it's thousands upon thousands of years old, right? I mean, corn tortillas date back literally 10,000 years to the Aztec empire. And so for me, like if you're trying to put that into the category of a sandwich, like I'm like offended. But how old is the sandwich?

How far does the sandwich go by? So the term. The definition came along with Earl of Sandwich, correct? Yeah. Yeah. So that was 1762. However, it's like kind of silly to believe that people weren't taking meat and putting it in bread.

Like that's a universal human experience. But so it at least dates back, let's say, 500 years. Let's just say. And then sausage making dates back thousands of years, right? But the modern hot dog, probably not until, let's say, early 1800s coming out of either Vienna or Frankfurt, wherever you think it came from. But now are we distinguishing it all between a sausage and a hot dog? I think we have to, yeah. And it's interesting because hot dogs are. A hot dog is a sausage we have to, yeah. And it's interesting because hot dogs are—

A hot dog is a sausage. Hot dogs, certainly. But not all sausages are hot dogs. Certainly. And I think you would have to differentiate between—it'd be tough to find a scientific definition, right? You know, like it must be X parts, you know? But, I mean, a hot dog, it's made with, like, a wet batter, right? Like, the forced meat is, like, very, very loose and wet.

And it's incredibly—not even fine ground. I mean, it's, like, fully meat is like very, very loose and wet. And it's incredibly, not even fine ground. I mean, it's like fully emulsified and liquefied, you know? And so I think like that doesn't date back all that far, but then the reason the taco example gets me so riled up is because that's such an important cultural institution. Sure.

So are hot dogs. That's what I say. Hot dogs are pretty important. Yeah. I mean, Cub are pretty important. Yeah. I mean. Iconicism, man. Cupid's goes back to 1946. Can you just kind of tell us about the origin of Cupid's and how you ended up there and

also how you ended up here because we found you on TikTok? Right. I was just saying, I don't know how I ended up here. You can tell me that part. I think I took the 118. I actually lived down the street, so it was very convenient for me. So thank you for that. Yeah.

But yeah, my grandparents started Cupid's in the Valley right here. It's actually the first location. It's not too far from here. Awesome. 1946. And my grandma said that no matter whatever happened to the economy, people would always buy hot dogs. So 76 years later, we're still here.

Hopefully, we can keep going. My dad took over, I think, in the early 90s, late 80s. His parents passed away really suddenly. I never met them. And then my dad passed away really suddenly. I never met them. And then my dad passed away really suddenly a couple days after my 21st birthday. So my sister and I hadn't planned on taking over the stores at all. We didn't know anything about the business. It was just like, your dad's dead.

Payroll's due on Monday. Figure it out. That's a great memoir title. Your dad's dead. Payroll's due on Monday. Yeah, figure it out. So now I think we've been going i don't know 12 or 13 years and we haven't burned the stores down yet right on and i think we knew when we took over

that we were selling a lot more than hot dogs that yeah the stores had been around for a long time yeah we haven't really changed much and so people come to us really for like the nostalgia you know the legacy exactly people come and they go i came here know, with my dad in the 60s after Little League practice. We had people who came, like, after their wedding for, like, their first meal. And I have one customer, Sue, who's, I think, in her early 90s now. Oh, man. She still comes every week. She's been coming since she was a little girl and, like, remembers ordering hot dogs from my grandparents.

The fountain of youth, hot dogs. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. If you want to live until you're 90, come have a Cupid dog. So I think we just, like, even though we hadn't really planned on taking over the stores, we knew we had a bit of a responsibility and that like it meant a lot more to people. And it was about more than hot dogs. Of course.

Yeah. Why do you think the hot dog has such specific memories for people? Because I think we probably have our own nostalgic memories of the hot dogs, right? Like what do you think is so special about the hot dog that like, I don't remember, remember at least i don't want to remember the last time i had a subway sandwich you know what i mean right what is it about hot dogs that has that oh man that's a really good question i don't know maybe it's just like the simplicity of it and really too i think hot dogs are often associated with like a barbecue and a family get together or baseball games americana everything that like comes along with the hot dog it's not something that you go to a sandwich shop and buy.

It's not true. You know what I mean? What that says to me is it's ritual and it's culture as opposed to necessity. Right, sure. Certainly there are sandwiches that have that, like a thing that's big for me. Nicole and I are both Jews. And so getting a deli sandwich with my grandma, she's telling me old stories. Like, oh, there's one time I traveled to New York and it was the first time I had proper

rye. You know, she just, she's from South Africa. She just sounds like that. But anyways, you know, getting that sort of ritual, that sort of culture that the hot dog has that more than maybe any other food in America. And it's for sure because it's associated with like just fun, happy times, right? Yeah. Barbecues, baseball games, movie theaters.

And like, I mean, camping. Nicole, you were talking about roasting hot dogs over an open fire. Yeah. I felt so American. Right? I just felt like I belonged. I don't know. Hot dogs equate belonging to me.

I don't know. It's very, very weird. It's like family and comfort. And it's so iconic, which is why I firmly believe that a hot dog is not a sandwich at this point of my career. I flip-flopped. I was like all over the place. I was thinking it's not, it is, it might be, who am I to say? But at this point, it's just like, it's an icon. The hot dog is an icon. And who are we to sandwich it in between? Yeah, don't lump it in with everything else. What are you doing?

I'm tired of lumping. As a, as a, mo lump and mo problems. As a business owner, like, would you be, say, personally offended if somebody were to,

let's say, write into law that, well, actually, I think California, the law is. Yeah,

do you have like tax breaks because you sell hot dogs? I wish. Let's make that a thing. I'm fully on board with that. I would not be offended by that at all. Nicole and I have decided that we are going to have an intense political lobbying career after this. So, like, hit us up.

We'll figure it out. First on the list. First on the list. But, no, I mean, like, does that, you know, I don't want to say enrage you. You seem like a chill person. But is there, like, something offensive if somebody is like, oh, this is just a sandwich? Like, does that denigrate it? I, no, I would not be offended.

But, I mean, when you guys first asked for me to be on this podcast and I was talking to to one of my friends, and he was like, well, what do you think is a hot dog sandwich? And I was like, obviously not. I was like, I don't even know what the debate is. Of course it's not a sandwich. Like, it just kind of blew my mind that that would even be something. Considered. Yeah, considered. And then I was, like, talking about it, and I was like, okay, I can see.

All right, I get it. There's meat between two pieces of bread, whatever. like talking about it. I was like, okay, I can see. All right. I get it. There's meat between two pieces of bread, whatever. But there's just like something special about a hot dog that I think we can't just like lump it into another category, like you were saying, you know? Yeah. And I think part of that is the simplicity of it. I think that's part of why Cupid's has survived for so long too, is that like, we don't have a million different toppings. It's just like, it's one thing, we do it well. And there is something to like that nostalgia.

I remember when COVID first started and obviously everything was like crazy. This is when people couldn't go to grocery stores, whatever. And someone ordered Cupid's on DoorDash. And she called me and she goes, I just ordered from you guys on DoorDash. And I went, oh, crap. What did I do? She's going to yell at me. And she was crying.

And she said, it's been so stressful. And having like just smelling the Cupid dog like brought me right back to my childhood. Like, thank you so much. And that's when I was like, oh, my God. So, man. OK, there's you can't get that feeling with a tuna. You can't. But hold on.

The debate is not all about feelings. All right. Let's bring ourselves back down to reality here. It's bread and meat, you savages. All right. Words have meaning. There are laws. I's bread and meat, you savages. All right? Words have meaning. There are laws. I have a statement. I have a statement.

Maggie has wanted us to bring up this point since the beginning of the podcast. Since the beginning of this from session one. The way you orient and eat a hot dog. Oh. Some people, I don't know, like when you eat it, it's like you eat it straight, right? You don't like tilt your head and eat it unless there's a lot of toppings. But like the way you orient it might be.

Dude, I definitely tilt my head. Might be the way. Well. Sorry, I'm like trying to like mimic it. I'm imagining. We just ate hot dogs last week. Do we have prop hot dogs? No.

But like the way you orient it might make people think that it's a sandwich too. You know what I'm saying? That's interesting. Yeah. Like, you know, like how Guy Fieri does the hunch when he eats his sandwiches. Maybe. Well, you're saying the orientation of a hot dog means it's not a sandwich because it's a different game. But maybe some people who do tilt their head, maybe they do think it's a sandwich.

You ever had a lobster roll served in a hot dog bun? Is that a sandwich? No, it's a lobster roll. What if it's a lobster roll? Okay, well, this is where we get into a weird discussion. There are not full restaurants dedicated to lobster rolls, though. Oh, there are. Oh, there are.

Oh, yeah. Educate me. Educate me. Oh, yeah. It's fair. Yeah, no. God, do you remember? Was it lobster? No, it's called Knuckle and Claw. It was Chloe Dahl and her partner, and she was Roald Dahl's niece. She's defined by her own career and her delicious lobster rolls and all that.

But I just remember it's Roald Dahl's niece, but she made the best lobster roll in L.A., and I don't believe they serve it anymore. But that's actually been a new thing, like lobster rolls have sprung up as this like kind of faddish cultural institution. I mean, there were at least five or six just food trucks devoted to lobster rolls. That's true. They were hot. Which one? As somebody who loves getting seafood from trucks. And I mean that unironically.

Listen, a truck is a great way to get fresh food to people. You're driving around. It's not sitting in a walk-in. You have a point. You know what I mean? Let me go to my Marisco's trucks. They're fantastic. You got to go before noon.

That's when it's the freshest. You got to go before noon. But anywho, I mean, that's another sandwich. Like at what point? Because now I'm being swayed. Morgan, you have just emotionally swayed me to now thinking. I mean, honestly, the taco comparison that I could see how somebody would define it as a sandwich in the state of New York actually does the state of New York,

their sandwich law, which has to do with tax breaks and all that. You know what I mean? They consider like damn near anything that is wrapped up in some sort of starch and eaten with your hands as a sandwich. So tacos, burritos, laffa wraps, pitas, hot dogs, hamburgers, all of that. That's just a sandwich in New York. Well, like if you were talking about the lobster roll, right? So they're calling it a lobster roll. To me, like the word roll is another word for like a sandwich,

right? I would say. Whereas like a hot dog, no matter what the dictionary says or what New York law says, no one's ever called it a hot dog sandwich. No one's ever walked into Cupid's and said, can I order a hot dog sandwich? No, there are actually historical records of it being called a hot dog sandwich. Let me see these. I don't believe it.

Open the laptop. Open the laptop. I've never heard it. Okay, you want to hear it? That's what I'm going to say. There is an obituary, 1843, hot dog roll baker, Ignaz Fritschmann. This is dead serious. Where in his obituary, they use the term dog sandwich.

And there's actually several other records dating in the early 1800s of it being called a hot dog sandwich wait he said dog sandwich well he said dog sandwich but that was a predecessor because that could mean

something else that could mean something else well that was like because the term hot dog I mean the term hot dog is fascinating and there's a historian

named Barry Popik who we haven't talked to but maybe we should because he's got some strong thoughts about this but he has at least five different historical receipts of it being called a hot dog sandwich and so he's at

the forefront of this like of course hot dogs are sandwiches and i actually thought stupid narcissist me thought that everybody was on the same page as me and barry that's what i thought i was like who are these people i was like i was like how could it not be a sandwich? Like, if you put ham and cheese and lettuce into a hot dog bun, that's certainly a sandwich. I ate a lot of those. You know what I mean? And like, I've certainly taken a hot dog and put that into a slice of white bread. Times are tough growing up. The ketchup soaks

into white bread a little too much and it gets squishy. But that's still, you know, a hot dog to me and all of them are just sandwiches. But then is a hamburger a sandwich to you too? Of course. I think a hamburger is a sandwich. I think a hamburger is a sandwich. But there's something about... Uh-oh.

Uh-oh. No, I'm telling you, the iconicism of a hot dog allows it to be its own damn thing. Which I think is similar to what you're saying about tacos. Yes, exactly. The argument with tacos

then applies to hot dogs. Tacos got 9,900 more years than a hot dog. Okay, that's true. But my question is, whenever those hot dog sandwich references were made, when was that? Like you said in the 1867, 1876? Yes, yes, yes.

No, and that's a good point. Well, now at this point of history, at this point of time, at this point of society, maybe we don't need the sandwich. We don't need it anymore. We're just, it doesn't need to be there anymore. You're talking about, oh, the sandwich as it relates to hot dog or just sandwiches in general. No, no, no. Hot dog sandwich. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The, what is it? The statement hot dog sandwich no longer relates to hot dog or just sandwiches in general? No, no, no. Hot dog sandwich. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is it? The statement hot dog sandwich no longer needs to exist. Yeah. Because it doesn't add anything. Because it's no longer even a sandwich. It is propelled past it. Maybe back in the day in 1876 when the references were all, you know, jumbled up. They're trying to explain to people what it was.

Yeah. They had to add that. We don't need that anymore. We have progressed as a society, I would like to think. Yeah. That we no longer need to define it as a sandwich. It has its own thing. It's its own creature at this point.

What you're saying is the term hot dog sandwich historically is what's called a retronym. Sure, yes. A retronym. What's a retronym? Oh, this is great. He loves retronyms. This is one of my favorite things. Like the term analog clock.

They used to just be called clocks. Right. Right? things like the term analog clock they used to just be called clocks right right so it wasn't until the invention of the digital clock that we had to go oh snap now there needs to be another term for it right uh electric acoustic guitar is another great example like you know until i don't know who is it uh chuck berry started shredding on the electric guitar i'm sure there were tons before him you know they were all just guitars now you have to differentiate between acoustic so back then they had a need to differentiate between a hot dog, just a sausage served because they weren't always served in rolls.

But they were dating back a couple hundred years. They needed a way to differentiate it by going, hey, this is a hot dog sandwich. You know, like you're going to get this in a roll. You know what to expect. That's the function of language, right? To communicate ideas like that. But then now, like if you're going somewhere and ordering a hot dog, you know what you're getting. It's coming in a bun. Except for when my dad

was stationed in Thailand, I remember him telling me that at the movie theater there, they were serving you. Let's talk about my dad's fun times in Vietnam. But he went to a movie theater there, and he ordered a hot dog, and he was so excited because he hadn't had one in years. And they just gave him just a cold hot dog

straight out the pack, just sitting in like a napkin and like no bun, no nothing. Because they were just like, oh, we know this is American. They called it a hot dog. This pack of food says hot dog. This is a hot dog. It is what it is. You know what I mean? And so he just didn't know.

Yeah. The meat tube is the definer. The meat tube is what defines the product. Yeah. It's not the bread. It's not dependent on the bread. Interesting. I firmly believe that. Wait, wait, wait. What? Hold on. Hold on. Okay. Okay. It's not the bread. It's not dependent on the bread. Interesting. I firmly believe that.

Wait, wait, wait. What, what? Hold on. What? Hold on. Okay, okay. Let's talk about it. What?

Let's talk about the bread. Let's talk about the bread. I mean, if you served a hot dog in a piece of white bread. Hot dog. It's not a hot dog, right? It's a hot dog. It is a hot dog.

I think that would make it a sandwich. Oh, no. To me, it would be a hot dog sandwich. To my opinion. See? That's valid. If you took sliced bread and like sliced up some hot dogs. I think that would make it a sandwich. Oh, no! To me, it would be a hot dog sandwich. To my opinion! See? That's valid. If you took sliced bread and, like, sliced up some hot dogs and put it in there and not in a bun, I'd be like, oh, you made a hot dog sandwich.

What if you take one piece of white bread and you fold it over? It's still a hot dog in my opinion. If you add another bread, sure, it's a hot dog sandwich, whatever. But if you just take one, one, and you unfold it, it's a hot dog. Every latchkey kid grew up eating that.

If I take an Eggo waffle, okay, and I put a hot dog link in there and I put a little bit of maple syrup, that's a good ass. How stoned are you, dude? That could be good, actually. I was not stoned. I don't know. So you know that you take the waffle acts as a bun and therefore it is acting as a piece of bread, which is a hot dog. So you think meat tube plus any 11 bread is a hot dog? Meat tube is the definitive thing.

But to me, that defies the idea that a hot dog is iconic because the iconic hot dog is in a hot dog bun. You know, you've heard of them. Sure. Can we just really quick, we gotta talk about this because someone needs to. The reason we always had leftover hot dogs and no more buns that they sold packs

of 10 hot dogs and 8 buns. Oh yeah, what is that? What the hell? I do not have an answer to that. Can you explain? Because you buy them in bulk, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't have this problem. I don't have this problem but I don't have this problem, but I don't understand it. Because every once in a while, like, something will happen with our bun guy, and I'm like, I've got to run to Smart and Fine, or we're going to run out. I'm like, what is this system? I don't understand. Why do they do this to people?

I like to think it's because people burn their buns on the grill. So, no, no, you'd have even less buns. You'd have less. Oh, okay. Because there's less buns than dumplings. Okay, I find out. People drop the hot dogs to the grate. Hear me out.

They double inside of the bread. Like the way that, like, yeah, you just get one real hungry man, like a double cheeseburger, you have a double dog. Yeah, yeah. Which I think is never a good ratio. It's just always, like, way too much meat to bun. It's just, like, not a good way to do it. I will say, as I've boiled down my taste and they've refined as an adult, the ratio of hot dog to bun. Because, like, when I was, like, especially, like, a beefy teen, I was like, give me the biggest hot dog.

Give me that foot-long, quarter-pound, big boy from Costco, right? Because it's $1.25. And now I'm just like... Too much. Too much. Especially if you're doing chili and cheese. I'm going to want to be doing chili and cheese.

Which also, you don't put chili and cheese on a sandwich. So again, the condiments... What is sloppy joe? ...been onto the meat. Oh, that's true. No, sloppy joe ain't no deal. Also, Nicole never had a sloppy joe

until like a year ago. I had a teacher. She thought, you know the cans of manwich? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nicole thought that the meat came in the can and we needed to like make

a sloppy joe for the show. And I'm like, yo, where's the ground beef? And she's like, it's in the can. There's a picture of ground beef on the can. I'm like, no, the can is just the sugar sauce.'s like, it's in the can. It's on there. There's a picture of ground beef on the can. I'm like, no, the can is just the sugar sauce.

I'm sorry. I'm learning every day. Okay, okay. The hot dog iconicism. I buy this as an argument that a hot dog has superseded the need to be classified as a sandwich. I do buy that. I do buy that. Wow.

I will say now we need to get to the nitty gritty and start drawing lines of when that happens. Right. A lobster roll, for instance. When you're saying there aren't restaurants dedicated to lobster rolls, maybe 10 years ago they weren't. And now there are. I mean, I think for me the defining factor is if I said, hey, guys, I'm going to go make us some sandwiches. What kind do you want? Nobody in this room is going to say, oh, hot dog.

You're going to say turkey. You're going to say roast beef. You're going to say tuna hot dog you're going to say turkey you're going to say roast beef you're going to say tuna nobody's answering hot dogs so that right there what the people are using to me is what really defines

is a hot dog a sandwich that's fair I think that's fair I mean we talked to the philosopher about this and he had a very he had the most roundabout

philosopher answer which I absolutely love because that's their business he basically brought up the, you know, that's how they get paid is they speak in riddles, like modern day leprechauns

and I really love it. Also, I don't mean to denigrate Calvin. He is like an especially esteemed caller. He was like, any whom, he was saying if he pulled up to a gas station and he asked his friend,

hey, can you grab me a sandwich? And they brought him a hot dog. He said that he would not have made that decision himself, but he would also have no right to complain because he didn't specify. Right? And I think that's interesting. If you said, if we're at your home, you're like, hey, I'm going to make you some sandwiches, and you brought out a hot dog, I would be very surprised. If you brought out a full-ass Reuben sandwich, I would also be surprised. I'd be impressed.

If you brought out a banana, mayonnaise, and peanut butter sandwich like they eat in the South. I I would also be surprised I'd be impressed if you brought out a banana mayonnaise and peanut butter sandwich like they eat in the south I'd call the police I'd be surprised you know what I mean there's a lot of surprising things that I think still fall

under sandwiches even though they don't satisfy the archetype well no right to complain people bring you food you have no right to complain that's my whole thing you bring me a Slim Jim

whatever you're giving me food go to the gas station yourself a-hole like what's wrong with you? Yeah. And so I don't know that that is necessarily the barometer, right? Like, I'm just not sure. Because there's a lot of surprising sandwiches out there.

If you had lobster rolls, that would be equally surprising. But I would be surprised. Like, if I walked into Subway and I saw a hot dog on the menu, that would surprise me. Do you know what I mean? I would be like, oh, of course. A hot dog is a sandwich. Of course it's on the menu here. So that surprise factor would make me do you know what I mean I would be like oh of course a hot dog is a sandwich of course it's on the menu here so that surprise factor would they just put the hot dog

inside a six inch Italian herbs and cheese and call it a day like that's just rude you know what I mean like what's the point what's the point of that okay so

talking about the hot dog's cultural relevance and there's a sticky subject in this whole debate where it's that we're in America we grew up in America

we can only really analyze this from an American lens. That's right. And a great example is, have y'all ever seen a fried chicken sandwich in, say, like, Britain and what they call it? You mean the naked one? No, I'm talking about like a fried chicken, like you would go to, say, McDonald's, Popeye's, Howlin' Ray's and get a fried chicken sandwich. It comes on effectively a hamburger bun. If you were to get that in Britain, they call that a chicken burger. Yes. And so for them, everything on a round bun like that is a burger no matter what is in it. Whereas we would call a chicken burger, right, a ground chicken patty that someone really trying to be healthy is eating.

And then you're like, oh, this is chicken. Dude, this is like a veggie burger at that point, you know? And so, like, there are different cultural lenses that you got to sort of view it through. And so, think about hot dogs, right? You go to, I mean, think about a Sonora dog, right? Like, if you're a really good Sonora dog, it's on a large bolillo, really similar to a French roll, and there are beans on the bottom of it. It's probably bacon wrapped.

It's got the chiles toreados on it, you know, and eight different sauces if you want it. Avocado. It is delicious. And so, yeah, like that's Nordog.

And so, I mean, is that, you know, a hot dog? We have to view things somewhat outside of the American context as well. I think the bread is, it's like, okay,

the dog itself is what makes it a hot dog. But I think the bread is what makes it a sandwich or not. Hold on. I like that framework. I actually really like that framework. Especially if you're arguing that the differentiating factors, the fact that a hot dog is a special case of sandwich that is superseded, right? It's sandwich hood.

I think then you need to have rules. Not even rules. I think we need to go Soviet with it I don't want to yes okay so let's talk about Soviet Russia thank you so much so they were obsessed with like codifying

everything and writing laws about what foods had to have certain characteristics and so if you were making ice cream in the Soviet Union it had to have at least. Okay. And so if you were making ice cream in the Soviet Union, it had to have at least like 30% milk fat by volume and no more than 20% sugar and could only be churned for this long so there's not too much air into it.

Sure. And people still say that the Soviet Union had the best ice cream in the world. Were there other problems? Certainly. But their ice cream apparently was rather nice. Did Cuba have good ice cream too? Cuba, listen, communism of all of its faults,

apparently they're nice with the dairy. Yeah, real good with the dairy. But I'm saying like, you know, I think if you are arguing that something should have its own status, then we need rules. And I think to me, if we're talking about iconicism,

that bun, that cartoonish hot dog bun, that to me is key to it being not a sandwich. Yeah, because if you have just the dog, right? So you say, okay, well, this is a sausage. Yeah. You put it in a sliced bun. We now have a hot dog. You put it on sliced white bread.

You have a sausage sandwich. I agree with that. I agree with that. But then we're talking about an actual sausage sandwich. Like you go to a sports bar, you get a sausage sandwich. It's a bratwurst in a roll. I think that the sausage is a finer though. Like at the same time.

But I think it's a combination of. But is a sausage technically only has to have a natural casing? Oh, we've had this debate. Oh, Morgan, you don't open up a can of worms here. I don't think so. I don't think sausage. We use a natural casing. We use a natural casing we use a natural casing

so that's what makes like a Cupid dog is it a lamb casing by the way yes is that then I think I think we just need to start

writing the new rules of hot dog hood it's gotta have a natural lamb casing well no but most hot dogs aren't yeah they're synthetic

go back to the ways our grandfather did it like a Cupid dog has like a snap that's why people really like it because of the natural casing but most hot dogs don't oh is that is that just what why people really like it because of the natural casing. But most hot dogs don't.

Oh, is that just what makes the snap? It's just the natural casing. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Did you think it was like the actual force meat? Well, no, I just thought it was like, I didn't realize that any hot dog that doesn't have a snap, which are a lot of hot dogs, especially we used to buy like the Bar S brand, which I don't even know if people know that brand at all.

No, not here. Not in this part of town. Really? It was like 89 cents for a pack of 10 and they just it could have been just like erasers that had been ground up with salt and water and put it and there was no snap it was a little bit of a sort of sponge to it you can like suck the juice out if you want because it was mostly water and fat um and so yeah that doesn't have that but you know what i I mean about having to sort of write rules now

of what makes a hot dog if we're going with the argument that it is a protected iconic status, like a national park, like Yosemite. There's so many rules about it. Hot dogs are Yosemite. Hot dogs are Yosemite. Yosemite is hot dogs. No, they are. I agree with that.

It should be a protected institution. Okay, fine. Do we need to write the rules like now? I mean, if we want to, yeah. Okay, Maggie. Do we need to write the rules like now? I mean, if we want to. Yeah. Okay, Maggie, can you open up a pages document, please? Yeah, where's the court stenographer? Let's get this in writing, please.

Well, the good news is we know a lawyer. We just talked to one. So we can get this taken care of for real. What's hilarious is he's just like a mergers and acquisitions lawyer now. He's so chill. He just took time out of his day at his big mergers and acquisitions firm. Probably the best part of his day, I'm sure.

I know. I think, yeah, it's the most fun you're ever going to have. Okay. Let's define it, people. Hot dog. It must be a

liquid batter force meat. Okay. Okay, we're not making this. No more. Listen, this is just for the lawyers to decipher. This ain't like an external

marketing document. No, no, no, no. Like, if you want to put liquid battered force meat on your menu, I think you'd sell a lot less hot dogs. Not posting that on our Instagram for sure. Liquid battered force meat, no more than one inch, no more than three quarters inches in diameter. What? I think once you get too big, it's no longer a hot dog. Then what is it?

A hot dog needs to, no. No, that's pretty small. Go inch and a half. Do not put those kinds of... No, that's pretty small. Go an inch and a half. Do not put those kinds of parameters on it, Josh. Why? I think there need to be rules to the classic hot dog. Josh, have you seen one that's bigger? I mean, it's just I didn't really...

I'm more like, I don't know how the hot dog goes down, but you know what I'm saying? You are putting the hot dog in a corner. Nobody puts hot dog in a corner. That's a big hot dog, Nicole. When are you going to get a hot dog bigger than that? What about length, though? What if you made your own? I think hot dogs

would be as long. What if you made your own hot dog? What? What if you made your own hot dog? What, you're talking about like a giant hot dog?

Yeah, yeah. What if that were to happen, Josh? I mean, you could do that, I guess. What if the diameter is more than 1.5 inches? Do you think that would still be a hot dog? You could break a record.

You could break a record. Let's see if you can make the longest hot dog ever. Nicole, are you down? We have broken a Guinness record in here before. Yeah, Josh ate a bunch of baby food one time. It's true. I was not to brag, but I did hold the world record for most baby food eaten in one minute.

Yeah, it's kind of impressive. Only about six months. And then a guy beat him. Oh, not just some guy. Andre Ortal from Stuttgart. Oh, I forgot your friend. Yeah, we were talking smack on Instagram. But no, that's what I'm saying.

Would a gigantic hot dog say uh what's the world's biggest hot like 70 pounds maybe 70 pounds is that even a hot dog at that point yeah i'm like what else would it be it is but if you put your kind of parameters on it then it's not i'm saying we don't need to talk about size and length and girth and whatever let's not talk about those things. No size parameters. Strictly a ratio parameter. There must be a ratio parameter. What about meat content? What type of meat?

Like 50%. Well, no, but like beef, pork. Can you have like a fish hot dog? Oh, if you do. Could that be a thing? Wait, that sounds great, though. I'm in. I mean, sure. I've had a lobster corn dog before. I don't think the meat matters. Land animal. We can't have a fish hot dog.

I'm drawing the line there. A turkey dog. Listen, as Jews, we grew up eating turkey. Everything? Oh my god, so much turkey bacon, so much turkey pastrami. Turkey dog's a thing. I'm on board with turkey. Land animal. Must be a land animal. Must be a land animal. Yeah. I think gator is the farthest we go.

Okay. Fine. Snake, maybe not. With legs the farthest we go. Okay. Fine. Okay. Snake, maybe not. With legs. Land animal with legs. No, what are they called? Skinks? Is a gator a land animal though? Oh, they're amphibians, huh?

They're a little bit of both. They're amphibians. This is so funny. Strictly land animal. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Okay. No more gator.

No more gator. No gators. No side streamers. gator no gators no size parameter okay so the ratio parameter that's important okay the bun has to be so i'm gonna let you do this we're not we're not gonna go it just it must be well alexander our lawyer armed us with a very great lawyer we now have a lawyer on retainer apparently yeah the good thing is he doesn't know he's our lawyer we don't pay him i'm just gonna we have his phone number so we start calling him uh be like hey my buddy stabbed a booth at denny's when he was drunk and they're trying to sue him uh can you just like call the manager uh that is a real that is a real story from college um any uh okay so common sense definition of a hot dog.

I think it has to be like the dog must be able to be fully enclosed by the bun. Is that fair or not? Right? Are there hot dogs where like if you really pinched, if you really pinched, if you really pinched the bun? Because I don't want to live in a world where a hot dog can just be this giant bologna log sitting on a little bitty bun. Well, is this just our personal preference here? Or are we just like defining what? Well, because I think part of what makes a hot dog and what makes anything, including a sandwich, is its use, right?

Like, how is this actually used? You know, a sandwich, like if you can't. So Nicole, for instance, got the wettest sandwich I have ever seen. He will. Open fit. Because it was hilarious. Josh is going to bully me about this for the rest of my life. I have ever seen. He will open because it was hilarious. Josh is going to bully me about this for the rest of my life.

I've never seen. I'm never going to any sort of deli with you ever again. We went to the most old school diner and she got like a hot beef sandwich and it was a slice of white bread just covered in the thickest, gloopiest, brownest gravy with little chips of beef on it. I'm just going to order salads around your sandwich.

And one, was it delicious? Hell yeah, dude. You get that powdered beef gravy in there. That is scientifically designed to make you love it. So I'm in. I think it must be able to be eaten with your hands reasonably. Yes. Reasonably.

Reasonably. Can be eaten with hands. Uh-huh. I think, too, the bun has to, it can't be split all the way through. No. It has to be hinged. It has to be one piece yeah one contiguous piece of bread

yeah with an intact end once the hinge breaks you have to throw it away if the hinge breaks accidentally not intentionally an accidental tear

it is still classified as a hot dog because it was not in your hands it was a mistake it was altered afterwards it was altered afterwards your intention how do you all heat your buns

at cupids by the way we steam them that's the way more people gotta know about steaming your buns steaming your buns is the best way? We steam them. That's the way. More people got to know about steaming your buns. Steaming your buns is the best way. I hate whenever the buns get crunchy in the toaster. Well, that's the nice.

We have the snappy dog with the soft steamed bun. So good. It's the key. It's incredible. I almost eat a dumpling at that point. That's why I love hot dogs. It's delicious. Just the steaminess.

God, I need a hot dog. Okay. One continuous piece of bread. If it breaks, throw it away because it's no longer a hot dog. It's useless if it breaks. Also, for people at home, yeah, if your buns are breaking when you open them straight out the pack, because that to me is the worst thing that happens. Yeah, you can steam them easily by just wrapping it in a wet paper towel and microwaving it for like nine seconds.

It's not going to be the best steam you ever got on a bun, but it'll prevent your hands from breaking. It will make a better hot dog than toasting it. I fully believe that. What other rules have we got? You talked about condiments earlier. I mean, I think condiments need to go on to the dog.

We do occasionally have like one person who comes to the store who's like, I want the mustard on the bun. Really? We have one guy who wants the mustard on the bun. His like daughter comes in

and orders and she says, and I need three pieces of bun. We have chopped down and they're little tiny and she goes, there has to be three on top of the chili or he won't eat it.

Well, OCD. Yeah, yeah. Which is fine. We'll do it. Very nice of you to do. Very nice of you to accommodate. It's so nice for you to accommodate. That's very, very sweet.

But so most people, you know, I feel like the condiments seem to go directly onto the bun. Directly on the bun. You got that? Directly on the bun. Default cases, hot dogs go directly. No, directly on the dog. Not on the bun. Directly on the dog.

Well, I have a special. If some gets on the bun, no big deal. I call it Josh's special tornado topping method. And so what I do is I put the toppings...

I don't do this all the time. I've done this before. You put the toppings on the dog and then you grab the dog and you spin it. You rotate it?

Okay. And then it gets all around. Okay. What's Nicole laughing about? This feels messy. The thought of you pinching the bottom of the dog. Yeah, I think Annalise watched me do this like four days ago.

Like a roll? But then the condiments kind of merge all together. It depends how much stuff you got out of it. This is chaos. You should stop doing that. Yeah, I feel that. You're the expert. I'm going to stop. I hereby renounce. Can we put an addendum, Maggie? Could we go, Josh's special tomato topping method is not recognized on the Hot Dog Council?

Thank you so much. All right. So we got that. What else do we got here? This is so funny. I mean, is this a good framework for what? I think this looks fine. Right?

I mean, this is literally. But is it a sandwich? No. No, no, no. If this holds up, and I'm not saying that it's not a sandwich i will say this is really convincing and i don't know if i can argue myself out of this if i believe that we're right is what you're saying yeah that's what i'm getting at a little bit well i don't know i don't know i'm not willing i'm not willing my hands are behind my back i will not if i the minute

i high-five somebody then the argument is officially over and I refuse to concede. Because I do believe, I do believe there are objective truths and categories in this world, right? Sure. And I think, I'm trying to think of it like, yeah, I don't think penguins are birds. You know, I don't think tomatoes are fruit. I don't think tomatoes are fruit, right? Okay. That's the thing.

A botanist would say a tomato is a fruit. But I think when we say fruit, we're talking about the fruit vegetable dichotomy. And that is a very important distinction in my life. Right. In the sense that you wouldn't make a fruit salad with tomatoes in it. Tomatoes are a vegetable. They act as a vegetable. And that is to say the reason we have categories is they act as a vegetable as opposed to acting as a fruit, no matter what a botanist says. So, you know, you got a historian in here talking about originalism and it has to be two slices of bread because whatever.

I'm like, listen, a hot dog looks really close to a sub sandwich. It's got the same relationships. In theory, I mean, I've gone to Europe and I've gotten a sub sandwich that has, you know, a very finely ground sausage, processed sausage in it. That looks very close to a frigging hot dog, you know, and that's a sandwich, you know. So, like, I still think that there are categories. But would you call that a hot dog? Like, when you were there, you're like, oh, I'm getting a hot dog right now.

No. I'm getting this sausage sandwich. It was something different. You wouldn't call it a hot dog. I keep coming back to just, like, how are people using the word? Yeah. Again, if I'm like, yo, I'm going to go make you some sandwiches. What do you want?

Humans, man. Nobody's answering hot dog. Nobody's answering hot dog. Nobody's answering hot dog. Nobody. So like, how do you come back from that? I mean. You don't. I think.

You don't. I think once, right? Like what separates a national park from just a parcel of nice land? You know what I mean? It's just, it's a champion. That's what it is. It's a champion. It's somebody.

It's somebody to champion that land. Teddy freaking Rough Rider Roosevelt going out there and being like, this is a nicer waterfall than that piece of crap. We're going to protect this. You know, it's a bit of an arbitrary line. Right. But it was drawn. I am now. Morgan, your story of Cupid's hot dogs has now riled me up.

Yes. Where I want to champion a hot dog. That's not a sandwich. It's his own thing. It deserves. The hot dog legitimately deserves like special protections under the law. i think all i think hot dogs we're gonna nationalize hot dogs it's gonna become a public utility all hot dogs will be free it'll be like water okay let's not do that no you'll be put out by the government i'm gonna need a new job oh god it's

gonna be so corrupt you're gonna get so many kickbacks oh no it's gonna be great it's gonna be great gosh but no i mean that's that's where I'm at right now. And I, I never expected myself to, to, to get to this point. I didn't think I'd give into emotional arguments. That's because this debate is not just based on facts, Josh. It's based on emotion.

It's based on experience. It's based on people that sell hot dogs for a living. Yeah. There's so many different factors that go into making this decision. And I think we're getting really, really close, which is what's so special about food, right?

Yeah. That's right. That's right's so special about food, right? It's an emotional thing. That's right. It really is. Dang. Well, Nicole, shoot. We got one more episode after this. And are we now solidly both on the camp of a hot dog not being a sandwich?

Time for you to change that shirt, young man. I don't know. I'm so sweaty. We both get really sweaty. Not when we normally record podcasts, just when we're talking about hot dogs being sandwiches it's a big deal it's something i like you say to me not to you you're like i'm just vibing i'm just here so i don't get fined all right so so in summation let's go over our hot dog laws. A hot dog must satisfy all these requirements for me to agree that it is not a sandwich. It must be made of liquid batter force meat.

Correct. There are no size parameters, but there's a ratio parameter. It must be reasonably eaten with hands. However, there's no rule on how big your hands are, so that's a bit of a meaningless distinction. Must be a land animal with legs. No gators! No gators. Because they exist in the water as well. And I don't think it'll be very good. It's kind of got a weird fishiness to it.

One contiguous piece of bread. The hinge must be there. If the hinge breaks, you must legally now throw away your hot dog. Addendum! Addendum! No, that's, Morgan, let's get for your business. I'll have to buy another hot dog. If it accidentally breaks, it is not your duty to change out the bread. It was an accident, no, no. If it accidentally breaks, it is not your duty to change out the bread.

It was an accident. But if you purposely do it, you will be fined. You can't intentionally make it that way. No special duty exists to either throw away the hot dog or eat it.

$75 fine. Yeah, but it's like a parking ticket. You don't actually have to pay it. You have to pay parking tickets. What do you mean? Do you have a boot on your car or something? Is that the

yellow thing? Hey, Josh. I thought I just ran it over and my car stopped working. Alright. Condiments must go directly onto the dog. There are rules, folks. If some gets on the bun, it's no big deal. Josh's special tornado hot dog topping method is not recognized by the council.

This seems very clear to me. We'll have Alexander Park look it over, our lawyer. Yeah, great. Shout out to his mergers and acquisitions firm for officially taking on this case and being the official law firm of hot dogs. Thank you so much, Ballard Spar. Legally, we can't say that we don't. I feel like you can only joke so much with law firms. Yeah, yeah, don't get too much into it.

All right, so that settles it for me, at least. A hot dog is not a sandwich, according to this very simple, easy to understand framework. There you go. But we do have, we do have one more debate, Nicole, and that's with the people.

So Morgan, we are literally, we're going out there because we've heard from experts. We're taking it to the six. Your testimony was very brave. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you. Anytime, anytime.

And genuinely it moving and like actually, I mean, sweet me. But we now need to go out and hear the listeners. So we're just going to set up a card table, location TBD. Follow us on Instagram to find it. And we're just going to debate people. And I didn't expect to go into it with both of us believing a hot dog is not a sandwich. But can you like arm us with any more ammunition for this?

I mean, do you have any like closing words? Oh man, you know what? Just like think with your heart. Yeah. Do what your heart tells you. Do what your heart tells you. Food isn't facts. Food is emotion.

Food isn't facts. Food is emotion. Food is love. Cheese and rice. All right. Well, Morgan, thank you so much for joining us. If you want to plug anything, tell people about, can you just talk about the car hop service at Cupid's?

To get us through COVID, we repaved our parking lot and started doing car hop service. So cool. And I remember I kept telling my sister, because I got really into skating. I was like, if we could do skating stuff, this is the kind of stuff that goes viral. And weekend one, we went viral on TikTok, and it just blew up. So we actually just took a hiatus from car hop because it's gotten a little hot out in the valley. It's like 100 degrees. But if you follow us on Instagram, cupids underscore hot dogs, we do car shows.

We do skating events. We're actually doing a big skate event at the Reseda Park here in the Valley, July 9th and 10th. So, yeah, follow us on Instagram. We've got lots of cool stuff always going on. Oh, yeah. Check out Cupid's Hot Dogs. Incredible hot dogs, by the way. Delicious.

No one's bringing you a turkey sandwich on roller skates. That just don't happen. That's right. Thanks again, Morgan. Thank you so much for having me it was great 76 years yeah cupid's hot dog has been around for 76 freaking years all in the family yeah la institution man la institution her her dad died and suddenly she and her sister were faced with the decision of do we keep the family legacy? Do we keep going on

with our own lives? The 90-year-old woman? That's sweet. Oh my god, is that what brought her back to her childhood? The relationship with the customers. The guy who wants three pieces of onion. You know, honestly, you ever go to a Subway and try and make any sort of request? And it's like you hurt their dog or something yeah they're just not having especially subway

close does meanest subway employees ever so it's fine you know not everybody has to be nice to be good at their job but they're also not good at their job uh but anyways i mean those connections right that's like who the hell am i to go up to a person like morgan walsh and say no no no that's 76 years of business. That's right. No, they're just sandwiches. You are not the authority and neither am I, except when we agree. I think that was genuinely powerful to me.

That's great. I'm glad you feel some type of way. This is awesome. You're changing everything you once knew. I think, if anything, I feel released. Good for you. I love that. Okay.

So I was and still kind of am that like a whole kid who like argues everything. But I'm thinking when I was like 15, you know, and like growing up Jewish, this is where this is going right now. So bear with it. Sure, no problem. Growing up Jewish and like a very evangelical Christian area. And I always had this big chip on my shoulder where somebody would be talking about God and religion. And I, you know, had read that stupid Richard Dawkins book.

And I'd be like, well, did you know the historical records and that is a flying spaghetti monster, if you would believe. And then like suddenly I had this flip switch where I was just like, stop being a douche. Yeah. Stop being a douchebag. It doesn't add anything to your life. It subtracts from your life life it subtracts from your it

subtracts from your life me holding on to this idol that no a sandwich is leavened bread with filling and a hot dog is that me being able to release that and just say that this is a special food that has a lot of meaning to a lot of people and i already think that way about stuff like tacos you know or a lot of the other cases that we talked about with Alexander. That's right. Lean in. That's right.

The hot dog is special. It sure is. Food is not about academic theory. You don't need to classify it. It's not an animal. No, exactly. Yeah. And whatever states want to do with their laws,

because like there are reasons to classify things, I suppose, with tariffs and blah, blah, blah. Whatever they do, doesn't freaking matter to me doesn't matter you know nope if i'm paying it you know uh 279 or 314 for that hot dog i don't even know prices just change all the time and all i know is i want that tube of meat that reminds me of the times of say leaving the rose bowl right and going getting an la street dog where they're cooking up on the sheet pans. It reminds me of that in a way that has a distinct connection separate from what a sandwich has. This is an emotional debate by definition. Of course it is. I've been saying that since day one. Man, is there anything that can sway you though at this point?

I don't know. The people might have some really, really strong feelings and those feelings might counter what I've been saying this whole time. I don't know. Yeah. I'm curious to find out how people think. Because you and I have, like, locked ourselves right now into this very sort of linear debate, right? Yeah. Like, we've gotten, like, very distinct perspectives from the historian, the philosopher, the lawyer, and the business person.

To me, that's all followed the same path. But I think we're going to get a lot of curveballs from the people on things that we didn't expect so looking forward to it yeah i am i am not holding on to my beliefs very tightly right now i understand that they may change but i will tell you there's no way i can leave that conversation with morgan and say that a hot dog is a sandwich based on something that i consider objective truth which as we learned from calvin don't freaking exist when it comes to human-made artifacts like that. There is no objective truth. That's right.

God dang. Well, I sweat during this one more than maybe any other one. Good for you. And this is the first time we have somebody in person, so this is the first time a guest could smell me. Did you notice anything? Did I smell bad? No, Josh, you were fine. Okay.

Why are you so nervous? I don't know, dude. It just happens. No, it's okay. It wouldn't be an episode of A Hot Dog is a Sandwich without... Opinions are like casserole. First up, we got RetinAMC. I'm sad to admit that putting mayo on a hot dog is simply the best way to eat it no matter what other toppings are.

That little extra bit of fat is just perfect on there. Hmm. I don't love it. Just mayo on its own? Are they talking about putting other toppings on it too? They're saying no matter what the other toppings are. No matter what the other toppings are. So I think they're saying that adding mayonnaise to anything also gets you there.

Yeah, it helps. I mean, if it was just solo mayo, I can't do it. But if it was just mayo and onions, I also couldn't do it. But, but, but if you end up with like chopped cabbage, potato sticks, corn and mayonnaise on there. That sounds good. Then that's good. Yeah. I think mayo, because hot dogs, if you're eating a proper hot dog, it should already

be incredibly fatty, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't need like the fat is the hot dog. That's why mustard goes so well on it. That's why even, to me, ketchup goes so well on it. It's because those are both very acidic condiments. Totally, yeah. You need it.

Onions are good because onions cut through fat. The pickles cut through. Mm-hmm, yeah. The relish, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. The sweetness and the sourness, yeah. And so, no, I think mayonnaise is an aberration, but, but, but, on the right hot dog,

boy, do I love mayonnaise on it. A little squiggle turns it into a salad. I like that. Ban Charanche says, I genuinely don't understand the hate for ketchup on a hot dog. Why do people get mad about it? So many people say that. Only kids do that. And apparently, the real rite of passage to

adulthood is mustard? Weird. But why? Well, I agree. I used to hate mustard. And then about three years ago, my taste buds changed because taste buds do change every seven years, I think. I used to hate mustard and then about three years ago my taste buds changed because taste buds do change every seven years. I think they have

Every seven years? What? Yeah, that's the thing. Like your taste buds regenerate or something. I think I read that on Reddit so it must be real. Oh no, oh no.

But yeah, so I hated mustard but then I was like let me try it and then I really, really liked it. So it is a rite of passage to like unique weird foods that you didn't like when you were a kid. But that being said, ketchup on a hot dog is delicious.

And I don't understand why people think that's childish. I don't get that. Yeah, no, I don't either. And we've talked about how delicious and complex I think ketchup is. But I think this opinion gets to something really unique that ties into exactly what we talked about, where has anybody ever made these claims about like a condiment on a sandwich, right? Nobody cares about condiments on sandwiches. No.

This is also why hot dogs are so unique. Yeah. This is why they deserve autonomy. I agree with that. Because people are so passionate about it. People don't care what you put on your ham on cheese, whatever. What do they call it? Ham cheese sandwich?

What do they call it? You know, people care so much about ham and cheese. Ham and cheese in this economy? You know what I mean? it? You know, people care so much about ham and cheese. Ham and cheese in this economy? You know what I mean? Like, people don't care what you put in your ham and cheese, your bologna sandwiches, your turkey. Like, people don't care about that. But for some reason, hot dogs have so much freaking, like, emotional and, like, physical. Like, people just care so much.

It's an identity food. It's the same with pizza, right? It's something where you have regional identity locked up in this. You have nostalgia and all this. So there's a lot of like gatekeeping. And a lot of people see that as bad. But to me, that's also just part of being passionate about it. Totally.

And the old me before this episode would have said like, it doesn't matter what you feel. There's still objectivity to it. But now I'm just like, listen, you have your fiery hot dog opinion. You get out there. You throw stones because you love it so much. Everyone in life just wants to feel something, Nicole. Josh sounded like Matthew McConaughey in the beginning.

Did you guys catch that? That was crazy. Time is a flat circle. Everything you've ever done is going to do again. All right. Okay, this one. I'm about to make some enemies. At Whiskey Woe, my boyfriend will only eat a hot dog smothered in ranch.

No ketchup, never mustard, not even chili, just ranch. Ew. I'm going to make a Nike parody shirt that says just ranch it. I have a feeling Eric Andre already did that. Fine. Sorry. You can host a podcast with Eric Andre. No!

What are you talking about? Don't do that. That'd be wild. You want me to do it or you do it? What? Host a podcast with Eric Andre? Yeah. You do it.

Okay, cool. I have like a little crush on him, so that'd be nice. A ranch? On a hot dog? There's only one way in which this works. Hear me out. Coleslaw. What?

Oh, that'd be good. Coleslaw dogs are... I love slaw dogs. It's a North Carolinian thing? Oh, Coleslaw dogs are... I love slaw dogs. It's a North Carolinian thing? I've had slaw dogs before at Pink's. Real good. Yeah. I like slaw.

They're not my go-to, but like slaw and hot barbecue sauce on a dog. There's a thing... Okay, West Virginia slaw dog is a thing. I think North Carolina... No, North Carolina, I think it's a burger they put slaw on. There's something in Cleveland, Ohio

that it's called like a Polish boy, I think. Polish boy? Polish boy, where it's a burger they put slaw on um there's something in Cleveland Ohio that it's called like a Polish boy I think Polish boy Polish boy where it's a kielbasa so it's not a hot dog but it's a sausage sandwich that has I believe coleslaw and um maybe Swiss cheese and french fries on it yeah that's a treat real tough to eat but if you just are just slopping it in your face holy that's great is that the Polish yeah yeah buddy that looks like a crime scene ranch on a hot dog to me is one of the few

situations in which I will say not an appropriate case for ranch if you were to panko crust and deep fry that hot dog then I think

you can ranch it and I've had a panko crust and deep fried hot dog huh it was like a katsu dog nice I had a we made a chicken fried hot dog

we made a chicken fried hot dog yeah that's good that's good stuff you know what the only way I could eat ranch is if it was like a katsu dog nice we made a chicken fried hot dog we made a chicken fried hot dog yeah that's good that's good stuff you know what the only way I could eat ranch is if it was cut up if the hot dog was cut up and I dipped it in ranch

that's the only way I could do it you had something we didn't talk about at all which probably there's probably no reason to talk about it you ever have currywurst

yeah yeah it's a weird food it's not but weird yeah there's nothing related to a hot dog yeah yeah yeah

but it's a very it's a very fine sausage right like it's yeah maybe even a wienerwurst Yeah, it's nothing related to a hot dog, really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a very fine sausage, right? Yeah. Maybe even a wienerwurst. I think it's kind of a wiener. Yeah, it's a wiener. And then it's just like a hot ketchup and a little bit of curry powder, and it's cut up with toothpicks. Yeah, yeah.

I don't even think there's french fries in it. Oh, I always get it with a side of fries. Oh, I get it with a side of fries, certainly, certainly. But it's like not part of the dish. It's just a nice little side. That's just something for me. Currywurst is one of those things that I'm like, I don't love it. I'd just rather have a good sausage.

Like, I respect the fact that it exists, but it's one of those things like poutine where I'm just like, the combination doesn't entirely suit me. Josh, I'm going to be honest with you. Every picture of currywurst has french fries on the side. Well, maybe it's part of it, but it's not like on the side. Josh, look. Josh, look. No, I see it. I see it.

Josh, look. It's on every single one. I mean, you've got a hamburger off and comes with french fries, but look at that one. No, there's one, and that's the worst looking one on Google Images, and it doesn't have fries. Bingo, bingo. One more, one more, one more. Okay. Let's see.

Jimmy Genome says, it's offensive that not every hot dog is bun-length. Who failed to appropriately collaborate on the size of hot dogs and the buns to ensure that they were all the same? I think we need to go back and rewrite our hot dog laws because I tried. Jimmy Genome, I tried in our hot dog laws to write this into the law. I didn't let you. It would have been punishable by death. I wouldn't let you. I wouldn't let you.

If you did not have some appropriate ratio because I agree. It's like when people make burgers that are, you know, they're like eight inches tall and one inch wide and it's on a full length bun. You're like, I don't want to freaking eat this. You gotta smash it down. You gotta smash it down. But no, I agree. Getting an inappropriately ratioed hot dog, not great.

I don't care that much. I'll just eat the tips. Yeah. Chew it off like a cigar. Yeah, yeah. No, I won't spit it out. I'll finish it. Wasteful.

And then just walk around with a hot dog. You ever see people in like a restaurant where they got a cigar in their mouth? They're not smoking it they just got it there uh huh I mean I know I haven't I'm not from like

the 20s job dude I saw this like a modern man no you didn't I swear to god I swear to god walking around with a cigar

in a restaurant I mean restaurants are all not smoking no but he wasn't smoking it it was just an unlit cigar

it was a prop oh it was unlit yeah oh it was a prop I don't want to do that with a hot dog. Just walk around with a hot dog in my mouth just so I can look important. You won't look important. What do you mean?

Nicole, what does not say this is a man who means business? You will not look important. You will look troubled and they will call you. Sir, are you okay? Hey, there's someone. Listen here, see. They'll think you're from frankfurt is just

a nickel uh man hey nicole cool shirt you got cool shirt I got too huh yeah I think people people can buy them

uh check out our hot dog is a sandwich and our hot dog is not a sandwich t-shirt and you can buy them at mythical.com right now vote your values we will be compiling the results to see whether people think a hot dog is or isn't a sandwich t-shirt and you can buy them at mythical.com right now vote your values we will

be compiling the results to see whether people think a hot dog is or isn't a sandwich and they're just really cool t-shirts that look really cool t-shirts yeah kind of political campaign slogans yeah yeah very cool also hey uh we want you to be a part of the hot dog is a sandwich or is it finale coming up on july 31st we're going to be taking our podcast to the people if you live in the LA area or if you're, you know, want to take a plane,

private plane, if you want to, you know, what's that thing called where you stick your thumb out? Hitchhike? You can hitchhike. Hitchhiking is illegal

in most states. Oh, is it? I didn't know that. A lot of people got murdered in the 80s. Go ahead, though. I'm so sorry. But if you are in the LA area,

come on down to Smorgasburg on the 31st of July. We're going to be there. We're going tost of July. We're going to be there. We're going to be podcasting. There's going to be food. There's going to be lots of surprises there. You don't want to miss it. So follow us on Instagram at Mythical Kitchen to get all the info.

Heck yeah, dude. I'm really excited for that. I didn't know hitchhiking was illegal. Yeah, hitchhiking. You know, there's like all those references to hitchhikers being murdered just from statistics. Anywho, thank you for listening to a hot dog is a sandwich. If you want to be featured on Opinions or Like Casseroles, you can hit us up on Twitter at MythicalChef

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not a hot dog is or is not a sandwich. There's going to be fireworks, folks. See you next time.