A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Is Culinary School A Scam?

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

Some of our favorite chefs have never had the experience of catching the culinary school bus. Today, Josh and Nicole are discussing: is culinary school a scam? To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Ina Garten, Rachel Ray, Tom Colicchio, some of our favorite chefs have never had the experience of sprinting to catch the culinary school bus, probably because the culinary school bus isn't a thing, but also because they never went there. Does this mean culinary school is a scam? This is A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense.

A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show where we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Scherer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inaidi. And Nicole, today we're trying to take down the big scam artist, LuLaRae.

LuLaRoe. LuLaRoe. They're scamming people for their leggings. Uh-huh. Herbalife. Herbalife. I started Herbalife. There was one in my high school.

I feel like every high school had pyramid schemes, Adam. The one where you would sell like rolls of paper? No, this was energy drinks. They sold energy drinks at your school? Well, yeah. There was like a pyramid scheme at my school where they sold, it was called Verve, I think. And I think someone's like, dad got arrested. I don't know.

Anyways, we're talking about whether or not culinary school is a scam. And since I never went there, Nicole, did you get scammed? That's a great question. I actually visited, actually had dinner with one of my old professors. I guess he was my old chef. And it's been like maybe two, three years since I've seen him. And we just very, we talked very lightly about it. And I'm like, I kind of did like a little bit of like an ask.

Like, do you think culinary school is a scam? You were a teacher there for X amount of years. What do you think? And he's like, oh, it's a scam. Of course it's a scam. I mean, look at you. Look at what you're doing now. Like there's no way that culinary training prepared you for where you are today.

And he was obviously being, like, facetious. Yeah, of course, of course. And what I will say is any school is a scam. Yes. Tear down higher education. What you need to do is, within yourself, have the hunger, knowledge, and excitement to do more than what your schooling teaches you. Ooh, that's good. And that's for any sort of subject.

That's for being a lawyer. I guess maybe for a doctor. I don't know about doctors. Is doctor school a scam? No, no, no. I mean, I guess with any sort of like arts and humanities degree. I think that's what they call them. You get like the base level of training.

You learn how to cut a carrot. You learn how to fabricate a chicken. You learn how to maybe, I don't know, do some agar agar pearls. That's what you learn. Everything else, you have to teach yourself.

Culinary school can't teach you work ethic. It can't teach you hard work. It can't teach you how to be personable. That's not things that that school does. It a trade school it teaches you a trade that will allow you to enter into a low level line cook job yeah that's it that's all culinary school is that's all it prepares you for if you have bigger dreams than that go ahead go for it yeah but you don't need the school you can you can learn everything from culinary school being on the line you can oh when you said on the line i thought you meant being online like youtube but you mean working the line at a restaurant i mean working the line at a restaurant i'm sure

the university of youtube is one of my favorite sources of education i call hard knocks culinary you baby that's where i learned yeah i mean i mean you can learn almost everything on the internet but there's nothing like real world experience and being under someone who knows how to work a kitchen and learning from them, I think, is incredibly valuable. And if those people transition into teaching, awesome. If they don't and they just stay in the restaurant world and they're like badass culinary chefs, cool. You know what I mean? I mean, the whole reason we're talking about this thing is because we get a lot of dms from people who are like i want to do what you do you're you're larping because you know we get so many of those dms all the time and all the time people are

asking should i go to culinary school or i'm going to culinary school thank you yeah or you're the reason i'm going you're the reason i'm going to scares me dude don't be the josh didn't go guys josh did not go to culinary school. Josh has an almost degree from UCLA in political science, right? Yes. Am I correct? Yeah. So don't tell Josh thank you because Josh did something totally different with his life.

He had like a totally different trajectory. Yeah. And also when you're talking about whether or not culinary school is a scam, you have to look at the other things that are scams. Like is a four-year university a scam? at the other things that are scams, like is a four-year university a scam? If you're trying to be a doctor or a lawyer and there is a very prescribed way for you to get there, which for the record, I have a healthy distrust of institutionalized education and authority in general.

I'm pretty glad that our doctors have to go to medical school and pass some sort of exam. Sure. I think that's probably a good thing. For, let's say, 90 plus percent of professions, that doesn't really exist. Yeah. Like an accreditation like that. Well, going to an accredited school is something. What is that something?

I couldn't tell you. But there's like, if you call yourself a medical doctor, you need to have, although I know some people who went to like naturopathic schools still call themselves doctors. Oh, they're like DOs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I don't know that you should use that word. Hey, alternative healing practice. It's whatever. But there's nothing like that for a chef.

You can have your Serve Safe certification. Yeah. Saying that you don't let food fall on the floor and pick it up and serve it to people. Food management, yeah. And that you got to store things three inches off the ground. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you have like a license to be a chef. There's no right way to be a chef. There's no right way to be a chef. And also no amount of

institutionalized education in any field is going to make up for just a natural hunger and knowledge for things and seeking out information on your own. Right. Exactly. Nicole, if you had to do it over again, would you still go to culinary school? Damn, that's a great question. When I was 19 years old, I wanted to be an English professor. I'm like, I'm going to go and teach children how to not children. I want to be a college professor. I was like, I'm going to go teach people how to, you know, dissect a haiku and, you know, reading poems. Yeah. And let me tell you, I took a lot of classes. I took a lot of creative writing classes. I took a lot of like Shakespearean theory classes and I enjoyed it. But my parents also told me to work. They're like, you got to go get a job, girl. And I was like, OK, fine. So I started working at 16. At 19, I was working at a chocolate store. And then I was like, whoa, this is a career. Like food can be a career. You're kidding me. So I don't know if I, I don't regret going to culinary school. I do not regret it. I met some really great people. I loved my professors, my chefs.

They were all so supportive and like proud of the fact that I was going against the grain. Because I told them like there's not a lot of Persian Jewish girls in culinary school. Like I made that very clear and they understood that. And they're like, okay, we understand that, but that doesn't mean that we're going to treat you any different. And I love that.

I'm like, thank you. And so, I mean, the school that I went to, I was lucky enough to have a great, a great education. I'm lucky because like,

I can like afford the loans and whatever. Like I can, I can loans and whatever like i can i can take them out and i can pay them yeah it isn't it isn't as expensive school and then they like to be like oh it's art school of course it's expensive but like it's art school like you can be selling million dollar paintings of your food yeah that's how they that's how they spend it and that's the one thing that i was like i didn't know that actually that's kind of a bummer yeah they kind of say oh you're going to culinary school is the equivalent of art school that's it it's a trade school it is a trade school it is not exactly nothing wrong though that's that's awesome but

it's got to be treated as such but you have to think about the entry-level job of a person that works in a restaurant they're making what ten dollars an hour if they're lucky i mean likely minimum wage minimum wage whatever it is i don't even know what minimum wage is right now. Maybe $15. It's honestly up to $15. I think we're at $15 in LA. I don't know what we're at, but like $15 an hour. What could a banana cost, Michael? $10? I don't know. I don't do payroll stuff, so I don't

have zero idea. $14 an hour. Now. It's climbing. It's like eventually. Yeah, but whenever I was in culinary school, I think I might have been like, I don't know, $11.50 an hour. Like that was the baseline. And that was like the loan you're taking out versus how much money you're making.

Yes. Was astronomically different. It's not even enough to like pay the interest on a loan, especially if you are going to say an art school. The loans you're taking, a lot of them are probably private. Yeah. It's not, you know, it doesn't have like the infrastructure of a four-year school like exactly yeah like i went to public schools i went to uc santa barbara for two years uh also i likely would have gone to culinary

school if not for sports oh that was the only reason that was my only interest in college was that i wanted to figure out how to throw a shot put in discus farther and i thought that might have been my career i mean i knew i wasn't good enough to go to the Olympics or anything, but I thought, you know, I had a real passion for the sport, still do. But I thought that maybe I could coach and go into that route. And then I was able to pass my classes and get a good enough GPA for, you know, four years. And I thought I was going to do a fifth year in track and field, but I ended up using up my eligibility earlier than I thought and not doing that. So I literally had like one semester left to go, but I had no more sports. So I was like, why am I here? I hate this. Like I wanted like food is my other huge passion other than

sports. Would have gone to culinary school had it not been for a sports scholarship. And so I just, you know, kept three classes on the book so I could keep my financial aid. And then for the next three months, I was like, let's figure out how to launch a culinary career. And then I started my blog and I started just meeting as many people in the restaurant business as possible. And so there is like another world in which I did go to culinary school. And I always think about how my life would be different because I don't think I would have ended up here. Yeah, probably not. I would have been a rock star chef.

You would have been a rock star chef. I would have been a hard party and rock star chef, Nicole. Who knows? I would have ended up here. Yeah, probably not. I would have been a rock star chef. You would have been a rock star chef. I'm a hard party and rock star chef, Nicole. Who knows? I would have been. You might have been, you know, a million dollar CPG, consumer packaged goods creator. Oh, that would have been cool. Yeah. There's like, people always think, oh, you go to culinary school, you're going to become

a chef in a restaurant. And I knew I did not want to work in a restaurant. I knew that. That's the dream that they sell a lot of people. Yeah. And I'm like, restaurants aren't that great. Yeah. It's the toxic energy is a lot for people to hand on.

You know, I was very coddled as a kid until like I was like 25. So I'm very sheltered in that aspect. And the back of the house world was a little bit much for me. And I could hang, but there was like situations where I just couldn't hang yeah like crying in a uh what's that thing called the deep freeze crying in the walk-in because i couldn't ice a cake properly and like just being surrounded by people that are expecting you to move move move move and you're like i can't i can't do that the the energy and the toxicity was a lot for me and i just i tried it i gave it an honest go and the toxicity was a lot for me. And I just, I tried it. I gave it an honest go and I knew it wasn't for me.

Yeah. But then I was like, there's so many other things I can do. I just wish that my school would tell the other kids that there were other things you could do other than be a restaurant chef. Yeah. They didn't do that. That's the one thing I wish. It was very restaurant oriented. Yeah.

They were like, it was weird. It's like we would like cook in teams and then like sometimes we'd cook separately. And then like we had to present dishes as teams. What was that teaching you, the teams thing? Just like how to work together online? How to work with other people. Weird. And like it just didn't make, a lot of the things made sense.

A lot of the things didn't make sense. But I am very grateful that I did it because I learned so much. And again, I met really cool people. And I'm still in contact with a lot of the people I met in school today. I love to see their trajectories and all the fun things they're doing. Because they also, some of them went the restaurant classic route. Some of them are CDCs and some of them, international food blockers going around the Middle East and, you know, trying Palestinian foods and trying different foods from different regions. And I'm

like, this is incredible, like way to go. So I'm glad I went. I don't think it's a scam, but you don't have to go. Yeah, no, that's OK. The other thing is, one, you just don't have to go to work and arrest. You don't have to go to culinary school to find a restaurant job. That's true. I actually know some chefs who refuse to hire people from culinary school because they're like, you're just learning outdated stuff from burnt out chefs who couldn't hack it in restaurants. So true.

And I don't know that that's necessarily true. I know some other people that have very great experiences at culinary school, specifically people who went to the CIA, Culinary Institute of America. Yeah, CIA is an incredible school. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, it's the top school in America. Orson and Wells or something like that? Not Orson and Wells. Not Orson and Wells.

Johnson and Wales. Johnson and Wales, sorry. Johnson and Wales. Orson and Wells is on the brain. Yeah, and then, you know, a lot of people who go to those schools, the track is to then work in Cheesecake Factory Corporate as an R&D chef. And I love that stuff. That's also, I told my-

To work for Hilton. The only way my parents were okay with me going to culinary school was telling them that I was going to be a research and development chef for Kraft. That's the only way they were like, okay, go. You just picked Kraft out of a hat? I like cheese. I like cheese. I'm not going to lie.

I like cheese. And I'm like, they'll believe that. They know what Kraft is. They'll know that, okay, she'll be making good enough money that I don't have to worry about her, which is, you know, immigrant parents. They want you to come to America and make a lot of money. Yeah. That's the point. Oh, of course.

So, yeah, it was definitely me going to culinary school was like a big deal to them. They're like, don't do it. They're like, Nicole, don't do this. Did they ever have like an I told you so moment or did you ever have an I told you so moment? Of course I had an I told you so moment. Was it this job? Of course I don't do this. Did they ever have, like, an I told you so moment? Or did you ever have an I told you so moment? Of course I had an I told you so moment. Was it this job? Of course I did. Not this.

I mean, this was one of them. Yeah, yeah. I've had so many I told you so moments. I'm like, look at this job. Look at what they're offering me. Look at how, like, look at the success of this place. Like, how do you feel? But my dad was really supportive.

My mom was just scared for me. That's what it was. Of course. My dad never told me what to do in life he was like do whatever you want i trust you my mom was a little bit more apprehensive because she's like you are going into a quagmire of like people that you have no idea what their pasts are the restaurant world is is scary bunch of derelicts yeah she's like you're gonna be hanging out with

a lot of people that are like on the sides what's it called the fringes of society yeah which is like not the most

far off thing Bourdain talks about it a lot he's like in kitchens you have you have was it artists or the

you know generally kids whose parents paid for them to go to culinary school and they want to make you know cool apple soil fermented tomato gelée whatever then you have mercenaries people who they're really good at their job they just come in they work a line they bang it out and that's how they know to make

money and then you have exiles people with nowhere else to go yeah they duck in a kitchen and they work yep yeah so my mom was always like very apprehensive she's like are you sure you want to do this sure you want to do this really want to do this i don't think you should do this maybe you should try another thing have you looked into hospitality school instead like she was very adamant about me going to a real quote-unquote real college and getting a quote-unquote real education and then i'm just like sorry this worked out for me yeah yeah i'm pretty happy now like what do you have to say now lady she's just like sometimes i go are you gonna, are you proud of me? And she's like, I'm proud of you.

I'm like, okay, well, that's so hard. Catharsis on the podcast. I know. It's great. I'm really looking forward to the future of just more diverse educational opportunities opening up for people. Because you mentioned the term real college. And I hope to God that, yeah, quote unquote, I hope to God that we're the last generation that grows up with the idea that a four-year college is the only route to go. Right?

Because I feel like that was drilled into us from a very young age. My mom and dad, both of them were like, education is important. It's actually an important thing. But me knowing about, I don't know, the Tigris and Euphrates doesn't really benefit me. Birthplace of Sumeria. Yeah, like me knowing what a, I can't even say it. Parabola? A parabola?

Parabola. It's a perfect arch symmetrical on both sides. They don't help me in life. So education is cool. But what about, hear me out, education about things that you want to know about instead. Was it the Socratic ideal of justice? And ironically, I only know the Socratic ideal of justice from my political science almost degree of reading The Republic. But no, it's the idea that everybody is doing what they are best at.

That would be nice. And that's a huge thing, right? I mean, I spent a long time. Is this the fish bicycle thing? What? If you tell a fish to ride a bicycle, it'll fail every time. But if you make a fish swim, it'll be successful every time. Yeah.

That's a good one. That's a good way to put it. Thank you make a fish swim, it'll be successful every time. Yeah. That's a good one. That's a good way to put it. Thank you. Yeah. No, I mean, that makes sense. And so whatever. I'm also a big fan of the idea of, let's throw out more idiomatic cliches, turning the wheels in the direction of the skid, right?

Going where the momentum takes you. Yeah, for sure. And if you are naturally interested in something that may not exist at a four-year school, that may not exist at, hell, even a trade school or a community college, anything like that, just dive into it. Just dive into it. Become an expert. Yeah. And figure out a way to pay your rent until eventually you find that you can either, A, make money for it or, B, just live a fulfilled life with that thing being a huge part of it. Sure.

If education is a part of you having a fulfilled life, do it. 100%. If you have that degree and you can put that degree and frame it on your wall and you look at it and you're like, I did that. Way to go. Yeah. That was never important to me. No, me neither, man. Which is weird because it was so important to everyone else in my family.

Yeah. sometimes i forget that like uh my family's also immigrants which is weird but i forget that i mean they're you know first generation south african jews yeah who came here but i was also drilled into that every time i still see my family members they're like when are you going to finish your degree when are you going to finish your degree? When are you going to finish your degree? And they still say that to you. Yeah. You're 30? 29? Almost. Yeah, 29. No, and it's still like, when are you going to finish your degree?

And it's like, what the hell would I get? You think I'm going to go work for the CIA after my YouTube comedy food career is done? Like, what the hell are you talking about? And there's no amount of accolade. Forbes 30 under 30, just saying. Cousins out there. You know, we'll make them satisfied because for them it was like you get an education. This is important.

We came to a new country. Everybody gets an education. You're either an accountant, a lawyer, or a doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think now we're finally seeing that house of cards crumble on the four-year college thing. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, burn institutionalized for-profit education to the ground, baby. It's terrible.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's like I see a lot of the people in my community are doctors, lawyers, engineers, and they're all so happy. Oh, that sounds pretty cool, though, too. Yeah, yeah. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. As much as I'm like, yeah, chase your dreams, follow your dreams, like screw the naysayers.

If you want to make a lot of money, like a lot, go do the things that will make you a lot of money. If that's a key to your happiness, of course. If that's a key to your happiness, do it. Like, you know, if you like to cook, you can also make that a hobby. You know what I mean? That's a huge thing. That was a huge thing. That's another thing my mom said.

She's like, you're making your hobby your job. Do you really want to do that? And I'm like, yeah. That's a question we ask applicants to the mythical kitchen yeah or at least a question that i asked because it's something that not a lot of people put thought into where they're like this is the thing that brings me the most happiness in the world and now i'm going to turn it into the thing that gives me the most stress in the world yeah let's do it yeah that's a rough gambit and sometimes it doesn't turn out and i mean i know you and i have

talked a lot about this how you know occasionally you go home and you're like, ah, the thought of, you know, turning on the oven and prepping food right now. Makes me sick. Makes me sick. Makes me sick. Don't want to do it. Yeah. My friend, Nima, he is a dentist, fantastic dentist.

He is also a world-class cook. Yeah. Yo, Nima, I want to try your food. Nicole, like, comes in telling me about your culinary exploits all the time. He's a perfect example of, like, I got to make money to support my lifestyle, but I am passionate about this. So I'm going to do it as often as I can. He went to school. He went to NYU, like did all the dentist stuff.

He has a full career as a dentist. Every Tuesday, he makes dinner and feeds us lowly people his creations. And he has not stepped foot in a culinary school yeah he has done all of his research on blogs he is a huge fan of la taco he has this ramen blog that he follows where he learns like and he just learns he absorbs stuff and that's just the perfect example of a person who went to school and you know got their education but allowed their hobbies to become something that they will not let go of no matter what. That's so funny because I am a professional food person, but I have an interest in amateur dentistry.

Whenever I go home. Look at these molars. Look at these molars. Yeah, we have a Blink-182 distal valve on the bicuspid side, secular occlusion. R34? I can be a dentist. How many teeth are there in the human mouth? 32.

Is it 32 or 36? It's 32. Well, it depends. I have wisdom teeth. Teeth in your human mouth? There's either. Is it 32 or 36? It's 32. Well, it depends. I have wisdom teeth. Teeth in your human mouth. Survey says 32. Yeah, that sounds right.

Yeah, the four, the. I didn't say I was a good amateur dentist. I do it and I have patience. No, a big part of me wanting to become a professional food person. I don't know. I say professional. I say professional food person too. Yeah, it just makes sense to me. I don't know. I say professional. I say professional food person too. Yeah.

It just makes sense to me. I don't know what else to say to people. Yeah. To this day, people still call me a chef though. I know. Same here. I mean, mythical chef.

Well, you, it's a brand. It's a brand. It's a branding thing. It's a brand more than like what you are. Cause you encapsulate much more than just a chef. Yeah.

I don't know. Like, like I can throw down in the kitchen, but a lot of my day is spent like analyzing numbers and trying to figure out a trick YouTube's algorithm into making us more money so we can, you know, do bigger, better, cooler things. It's so weird.

Like they go, hey, like you're the chef girl. And I'm like, I guess. Like, I don't know what else to call myself. I cut you off from your tangent. Oh, no, I was just saying separating your hobbies is a big thing that I think is really valuable. I think the only thing in life that you should really put stock in is just like have something, have something that you can get fired up about, have something that you wake up every single day and look forward to. Even the dumbest things of just like I'm going to try a new frittata today.

I just wake up and want to do that, you know, work or no work. And like one of the big things that motivated me to do it was my dad died hobbyless. His whole life was just spent, you know, trying to. How old was he when he passed away? 64. Yeah. 64. And he just like didn't have a ton of passions in life.

You know, like he worked a corporate job for a while and then lost that bad divorce, spent, you know, the last 15 years of his life just trying to make enough money to scrape by. And, you know, I always internalize that as well. I need to get a good job to be stable because money was always a problem for us. Sure. And so that's why I studied political science, because I was like, work for the government, get a government job. But a government job wouldn't have actually made me happy. But I confused lack of money worries with being happy and then i watched him you know die without hobbies and i was just like i don't want that yeah of course i have a thing that i love i'm gonna absolutely chase it and you know just tell people that that is a surefire way to have one success two happiness would be irresponsible just drop out of college

where you already have yeah what was it like god God, school's what, like 35 grand a year in total times four and a half? I think so, yeah. With like $120,000 of sunk cost, like 50 of that coming in loans, pretty damn irresponsible. But in-state tuition, 43, yeah. Oh no, that's out of state. God, school's too expensive. Wow. But I mean, that'd be a thing that I can't like advocate for people to do because it's

like, listen, I got lucky on the statistical sense. I worked my ass off and I had a general game plan and I hustled super hard. Yeah. But you can't prescribe that to people. I tell myself all the time, you are a lucky girl. Yeah. Like, you are lucky. A lot of people would love to be in your position and it's like you should be grateful for, like,'re at because a lot of people are still working those like crappy line cook jobs and some people love it

though some people can i just tell you something they love the grind some people love the grind and they love pushing food out and seeing people's faces and just enjoying it and i and i love that but like it just was never for me yeah and i like the cushy, quote unquote, cushy job I have here. It's kind of, it's interesting. I feel that. It's lucky, interesting. But we still get to do the things that we love every day. Yeah, of course.

And although cooking for me in our kitchen is mostly like, Nicole, I'm going to fry myself a couple eggs. I'm like, I'll buy you some more eggs. I want you more eggs. Yeah, we go through so many eggs here. We all love eggs in the kitchen. Yeah, between me and V, like we're eating about eight eggs a day. V loves eggs. Yeah, do we? she fries up like three god bless her i i wish we had time to respond to

every single person that dms us asking if they should go to culinary school or just being like i have a passion for food um how do i enact that into a job um because there's no prescribed way to tell people how to make it happen, right? Yeah. If you're somebody who, like, you will be happy for food. For food, which is so weird, because food is weird. You want to be a lawyer, go to law school. Food is so weird. Well, I mean, our job is, it's an industry that did not exist 10 years ago.

Yeah. Digital food media, what the hell is that? I remember growing up and my dad being like, there's a whole channel devoted to just cooking? That's stupid. That'll never work. You know what I mean about Food Network? Yeah.

And so we're the first generation to grow up with this as an actual career, right? Like similar for, say, sports broadcasters in like the 60s. Sure. You know, and so the job that you might want in the culinary field may not exist. Even exist. Yeah, that's so true. And so it's tough to then give people a roadmap. And so, you know, is culinary school a scam?

To me, it's always like, how much is your time worth? How important is money to you? How important is institutionalized education? If you're someone, I need to have a $200 a month gym membership to work out. Yeah. In the way that I do, right? Like, a lot of people are like that. They're like, I'm paying this money. I'm not going to let it go down the drain. Yeah. Yeah, that's normal. I had a $40 a month membership to LA Fitness

and I never went because the park was kind of crowded. There's no one there telling you what to do. I made that investment and just decided that I'm going to work out every damn day because I'm paying out the wazoo for it. If you are somebody who you think that you can be the person that like, I'm going to make a damn successful culinary career and I have the means to pay off these loans and I'm going to be valedictorian in my class and I'm going to go work in development for Southwest Airlines to develop their new line of what the hell ever.

Do they have first class in Southwest? I don't think so. Maybe. I don't. I've never flown Southwest. But you know what I mean? Somebody who is like a really hard charging gunner wants to do that. But if you're somebody who goes, I think I kind of like food.

I don't know what else to do with my life. Should I pay, you know, $80,000 over the course of several years and have the opportunity cost of not working? Hell no, you shouldn't. You should go knock on the door of your local restaurant and say, hey, yo, can I wash dishes making $15 an hour, whatever the minimum wage is where you are,

and then see if you like it and work yourself up from there. I have a confession to make. I was a very confused person when i went to culinary school and my my chef uh that i went to dinner with actually reminded me of that he literally while he was like cutting open a meatball he goes you were a confused kid nicole and i'm like me i'm like i'm confused that you thought i was confused he's like yeah he like, you just came in and you just liked food. He's like, you didn't know what you wanted to do. I'm like, I guess.

But he's like, but look at you now. And I'm like, yes, I don't know. But I was confused in school. Yeah. But the thing is, at the end of it, I knew what I liked. I knew what I didn't like. And I knew what to do to get where I wanted to go. Yeah.

Yeah. And you did it. I did. I mean, there's still so much more for me to do to get where I wanted to go. Yeah. Yeah. And you did it. I did. I mean, there's still so much more for me to do. Oh, yeah. And who knows what the rest of our careers are going to look like. Yeah. Five years from now, when is five years?

2027? Yeah, 2027. I'll be living in Aruba. We're going to have the mythical culinary universe. Nicole is going to be at the satellite location in Aruba. Yeah. She's going to start a- I'm going to have eight kids.

I'm going to be running the mythical outdoor sand volleyball league. All adopted. We're going to start a mythical sports. I'm just going to have like a little buggy just full of beautiful children just all around the island of Aruba. God bless. All right, Nicole, I've heard what you and I have to say. Now it's time to hear what Trevor has to say. He's not a guest on this podcast. He's not. He does have his brand new, very own podcast called Trevor Talks Too Much. He's talking to some of your favorite celebrities out there, like streamers.

And gamers. And gaming streamers. Streaming on games. And also non-gaming streamers. That's true. Like musical artists. Yeah. Some internet celebs.

Internet celebs. So exciting. You got a used Kia Optima for 0% APR and $29.99. He drives a Wrangler. Oh, yeah. He has a big Jeep that's really annoying to park next to. But really, Trevor has his own podcast, Trevor Talks Too Much. Get it wherever you get podcasts.

We're really excited for him. We're very proud of you, Trevor. I think it should be called Trevor Talks the Appropriate Amount. That's too many T's. Trevor Talks the Appropriate... Yeah, it's a lot of T's. It's a lot of T's. Anyways,

it's time for a segment we call Opinions Are Like Casseroles! First up, we got at Basiado, the ham-pickle-cream-che cheese combo is a very underrated snack food. Yes. At what point do people keep posting this opinion, though, and it doesn't become underrated anymore? I like turkey.

You know? You know? Josh. You know why I buy lunch meat ham instead of lunch meat turkey? Why? I know you just saw me eat a bunch of lunch meat chicken breast. Was that chicken breast? Yeah.

I kind of tend to, like, look away at this point. I know I eat I used to I don't know eat respectable meals but like in the office now I've just made it like a solid 11 a.m after breakfast before lunch snack of just like dipping lunch meat in mustard. That's fine. Are you you're like being very fit right now. Yeah I'm trying to do. You're being good i was no there's no good or bad i just like sorry i decided that i'd like to take a month of like let's see how if i can get hotter you know i just want to like try and listen to me i've told you this in passing hotness comes from the inside oh yeah that's what people say i'm trying to see if i can eat enough lunch meat to make my insides hot josh not to be not so humble but i'm so hot on the inside i just like i like playing

with my body nicole like i've done okay i've done no i've done like month stints of i've tried keto just to see what it did to my body uh i tried um lean gains it was like a weird intermittent fasting thing i've tried going vegan just for the shisum's giggles um and now i just decided like i don't know let's just try going like no processed sugar no gluten no wheat no alcohol for a month see if it does anything what i found out is that i really like alcohol in bread i love bread i'm happier when i consume them i'd like to keep doing that but i've committed to a month is there serotonin in bread yeah dude that's the main ingredient it's got like glutens and serotonins And that's what makes it rise

I told a doctor The other day I'm like hey Do you Do they have like Serotonin drops And she's like What

She's like Do you mean Antidepressants Nicole I'm like oh Oops I'm like why can't you Just like like Algae drops

But serotonin drops And she's like It doesn't work like that Nicole I'm like oops And you're like I went to culinary school I think I know

Alright Hot tamalea Says Dr. Pepper Tastes like soy. I'm like, oops. And you're like, I went to culinary school. I think I know. Alright. Hot Tamalia says Dr. Pepper tastes like soy sauce. I'm drinking a big old mug of Diet DP right now. Let me tell you. Smells like prunes? It's a little savory. I understand the soy sauce note.

Yeah. I get soy sauce a lot from stout beer. Yeah. I don't like stout beer. I'm kind of malty. Soy sauce is brewed. I'm not going to pretend like I actually know what it is. I think it's a fermented soy. But like you cover soybeans in salt. For like a long time.

You let it stew for a long time. Yeah, I think so. I don't know if you heat it or not. I don't know. Seems like it'd be heated, right? I don't know. Ah, that's one of those things that I'm going to Google after this. And then I'm going to know it, which is pretty fun.

But yeah, no, I get that. Color is a really big part of how you taste things, right? There was that experiment. You eat with your eyes first. I mean, there's a lot of experimentation that has verified this. Like they did the thing where they took enology students, the wine making students. Enology? Enology and viticulture.

Viticulture. Viticulture, I believe, is study of growing grapes. Enology, I believe, is a study of making wine. Nice. I think so. Shout out to UC Davis. I almost went there to be in their food science program and then found out I am too dumb and chemistry is hard. But no, they did a thing where they took enology students and they dyed a white wine red and asked them for tasting notes.

And they all described it as a red wine with tasting notes. And it's like, no dummy, we just dyed it. So I get it. Like you see the dark Dr. Pepper, I think that is what makes it taste like soy sauce. If it was clear,

I don't think you'd get those flavor notes at all. Okay. At, let's go hot tamale again, hard boiled eggs and cream cheese on top of a blueberry bagel

hits, that makes me physically nauseous thinking about. I don't like this whole trend of people putting sweet bagels with savory stuff. You got to stop. You got to stop. But if you want to put jelly on like an English muffin with an egg in it, that's fine.

That's fine. Yeah, we decide what's fine. Even if it seems like it contradicts the things that we said earlier, it's fine because we said it. That's right. We're in charge. We're right, yeah. You're listening to us. We have the microphone.

The fox is running the hen house, baby. The hens don't know what the hell is going on. Oh, Christ. The next one I just read. Burley underscore girl says salsa on brownies is goat tear. You're a liar. You're lying. Yeah, I think this is a fabrication. I think they're lying.

I think this is a troll post. Is there anything that you do that would be comparable to this? No! What's the closest thing to sauce and brownies? Sriracha on a cookie? Yeah, hot sauce on a cookie. Even that, I don't want that. Putting a dip in jalapeno juice with the Milanos?

Is that good? Do you do that? No, I'm just trying to find comparisons. No, I believe this is a troll, but that's... Hold on, you put a little relish on a cupcake, though. What are you talking about? I like sweet cucumber things. Cucumber Persian ice cream.

That's a delight. Stop trying to justify this. Why not relish? Listen, I don't like this. I think you're a liar, Burly Girl, but we still like you. Yeah, bring more opinions. I want to know what else Burly Girls into. I love this next one.

At JillyFace9, I eat the rind on brie cheese, but I don't like it very much, and I'm not really sure if I should. I'm going to—you answered your own question there, girl or guy or non-binary folk. I don't know. You answered the question when you said, I don't like it very much. Stop eating it. Shout out to Cheezes with Edible Rinds. Love you all, baby. I love the rind.

You eat the brie rind? Of course I do, baby. I love the rind. You eat the Brie rind? Of course I do. I eat the Brie rind. Waste not, want not. But that said, there are some cheeses where I'm like, I'm not sure I'm supposed to eat this. And then one of them, I thought it was an edible rind. It was a net.

It was a net. That is one of my favorite cheeses also. The Trader Joe's on a Saint something. I don't know. No, not Saint Augur. Not Saint Augur. Yeah, no. So I ate a net once.

Don't eat the net. I didn't know. Not St. Augur. Yeah, no. So I ate a net once. Don't eat the net. I didn't like it very much. If you ever see a bright, bright, bright orange Oh, port salt. Port salute. Port salute. So you certainly can't eat the rind on brie. There are a lot of people who would say that you are supposed to. I remember my French teacher telling me that

you should eat the rind on brie. If you don't like it, don't do it. Stop. Stop it. Stop putting it in your mouth. Chase your bliss. Is it my turn? Yeah, yeah.

Is it my turn? Is it my turn yet? I'd like to read the next opinion. Okay. Haley Popish XO says, my boyfriend hates spaghetti. He says it's a terrible size. Prefers angel hair or fettuccine? He says angel hair for light sauce and fettuccine for dense sauce.

No spaghetti. Um, you know what? I understand. I understand your boyfriend sensitivities. I get it. It is like, it's mediocre. It is the baseline. Now, mediocre can be a good thing.

It can be a bad thing. It's just right. It's mediocre macaroni. That sounds good. Mediocre macaroni. I agree that light sauces love Angel Hair or Cappellini and thicker sauces love fettuccine.

Does your boyfriend want a job as a culinary producer? Because I love his opinion. This makes a lot of sense. This is how I feel about the what they call quote unquote soft taco sized tortillas that come from mass market like Mission and Guerrero. You mean the small like the street taco ones?

No, because I love those. I bought them, by the way. I bought some corn ones for you. Oh, did I? Yeah. Oh, very cool, very cool. I'm not doing processed grains, but thanks, Nicole. Why the hell am I doing this myself?

But no, the soft taco size are too big for a proper taco where they spill out. They're like, you know, a 12-bite taco, which doesn't exist in my mind, and they're too small to roll a proper burrito. Spaghetti is right in that middle point of thickness that I don't need, just like those tortillas. So I agree. I don't even love angel hair, but like a rice noodle vermicelli is something that I like really love. But no, I'd rather have like most Italian pastas. I want a thick, dense, chewy noodle.

Shout out to lasagnette. I really want a bucatini with meatballs right now. I want bucatini with meatballs. I know I said I'm doing all this. No, no, no. We have lettuces. Oh, yeah. We got salads for lunch.

It's a good salad. Sweetgreen does a great job. It does. Not a sponsor. Just enjoy it. Yeah. MTC806 says, my boyfriend says Miracle Whip and peanut butter sandwiches are good. He eats the zip of Miracle Whip.

Yeah. This is something in southern, like in the south. Yeah. Peanut, banana banana and mayonnaise is my favorite iteration of that comment of that combo not even peanut butter. Wasn't that Jimmy Carter's

favorite sandwich or something. It was something like it was a farmer. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah no Miracle Whip I think works better than

mayonnaise because you have a little bit of sweetness to tie into the sweetness of peanut butter. I love Miracle Whip. I'm a fan. It's coleslaw aioli. Yeah.

I wouldn't try this. I'm not brave enough It's coleslaw aioli. That's what I call it. I wouldn't try this. I'm not brave enough. Maybe if you blindfolded me and said, hey, eat this, maybe. But like on my own volition. Nicole loves getting blindfolded and fed sandwiches. It's kind of her thing.

Yeah, they're so funny. Oh, it's my turn. Soju 7 says grape jelly and roast beef cold cuts with white bread. Surprisingly pretty good. I would eat this sandwich more than the mayonnaise sandwich. Roast beef is just the exact wrong cold.

It's almost the worst cold cut though. With grape jelly? I'd rather have even a turkey, but especially a ham. Do you think they heat it up? No, I think they're going cold. I think they're going cold on all this. No, you need to heat up the roast beef. You want a hot roast beef, cold grape jelly.

I don't care the temperature of the grape jelly. Is it like a grape jelly au jus? I don't know like is there like a french dip action i just read it you should be the boy why are you not thinking about it no i would i would heat up okay i would i would pan sear the roast beef and then i would uh toast the bread lightly on one side i want some grape jelly on both sides of the untoasted bread, and then I would put the hot meat, and then I'd eat it. Is there a worse cold cut to use with grape jelly than roast beef, though? Give me some cold cuts. Pastrami, corned beef.

That's pretty bad. Brown fire. Corned beef. Salami. Salami and grape jelly sounds good. Finocchiona, that's just another kind of salami. That's pepperoni. Bologna.

Ew, bologna probably. Bologna Ew Bologna probably Bologna Mortadella Mortadella would not work Ham Perjute Gabagool Gabagool could work

Copa Copa could work Turkey Turkey could work Do you know that turkey Like they just named the bird After the country Because it was just like

A miscommunication On where the bird came from No way Yeah I was wondering about that And then I read it in a book You read books I read it in a book. You read books? I read it in a book. That's so cute.

And then in some other languages, turkeys are mistakenly called, I think, Ethiopian. That's amazing. Because it was like the Dutch. Shout out to Dan Jarafsky in his delightful book about food etymology. The turkey sock is wild. All right, we got at Kyle Leviathan. Taylor ham is the best breakfast meat, and I was devastated to learn it's regional to the NJ area. Well, Kyle Leviathan, I was recently on the Jersey Shore.

It was a hot, sweltering day. I was five to nine white claws deep, and I stumbled upon a stand, and I got a fried Taylor ham, a.k.a. pork roll sandwich with white American cheese, and it was one of the better things I've ever eaten. It was great. We've bought Taylor ham before for the show. Yeah. And I haven't done anything fun with it. And I want to eat that sandwich that you said. Did you try it at all?

Or did you just fry it up and eat it? No. You didn't try it? I didn't get to try it. Oh, God. I know. I know. I'm so mad at myself.

I'm mad. I'm mad. It's like spam but worse. It's great. I really want to try it. It's like if somebody made an artisanal spam. Oh. That's what I'd describe it. It's like spam, but worse. It's great. I really want to try it. It's like if somebody made an artisanal spam. That's what I'd describe it. It's like a little less preformed, a little more heavily seasoned, but still, and it's

funny calling Taylor ham artisanal, but compared to spam, it is. All right, Nicole, you take the last one. This is a good one. Okay. Taylor Apper says, apple and honey is delicious and non-Jews need to get on it. Shout out to the Goyim. I like it. It's not my favorite. Oh Shout out to the Goyim. I like it. It's not my favorite.

Oh, it's one of my favorites. I like Haroset. Yeah. Non-Jews need to eat more Haroset. Come to my house. My mom will make you really good Haroset. Haroset? I don't know.

Because there's somebody that criticized me for not saying Chanukah. Yeah. But Haroset. Yeah, dude. You take the Manischewitz wine, walnuts, apples, and honey, and just kind of mash that up into a paste. Yeah. Put it on a monster. That's like one of my favorite combinations of flavors.

The wine kicks it off. I think we should eat it on more stuff. When you and I start a pop-up with our awesome non-culinary school degrees, well, you still got it. I have an associate's degree. They're going to take it away if you don't pay your student loans soon. What? I mean, if any loan collectors are watching this, don't come after Cole. She's going to do it eventually. They'll take my degree away?

I think so. Then we'll have to fire you. It's going to be super awkward. But that's going to be the dessert. I'm telling you, we should make a Jarozet dessert for when we eventually do a Metropop. Well, I'm going to be fired by that point, apparently. So I don't want to do that. UCLA keeps emailing me.

They're like, hey, want to come back to school? I'm like, piss off. Win me a national championship in basketball this year. Then we'll talk. My school doesn't exist anymore. Oh, yeah. That's another thing. A lot of culinary schools are actually just scams that get shut down.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, shout out. I am glad I went there. Oh, education. Well, on that note, thank you so much for listening to Hot Dog is a Sandwich. If you want to hear more from us here in the Mythical Kitchen, we got new episodes for you every Wednesday. If you want to be featured on Opinions or Like Casseroles, you can hit us up on Twitter at MythicalChef

or at AndyZotto with the hashtag OpinionCasserole. No gods, no masters, just culinary school. For more Mythical Kitchen, check us out on YouTube where we launch new videos every week. And of course, if you want to share pictures of your dishes, including the ones you've learned in culinary school, hit us up on Instagram at Mythical Kitchen. We'll see you next time.