A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Ketchup Vs. Mustard

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

Today, Josh and Nicole tackle the most iconic condiment rivalry of all time: KETCHUP VS. MUSTARD Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@ahotdogisasandwich To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show we break down the world's biggest food debates.

I'm your host Josh Sherr. And I'm your host, Nicole Iniety. And I owe everybody an apology because I'm, I collectively called you schmucks for, in theory, not understanding the very simple puns that are made even more obvious by our costumes. Nicole, who are you wearing? I am wearing yellow mustard by yellow mustard. Let me just do a little. No, you got, did you just reach out to yellow mustard to do this dress?

And they did? Because that's incredible, because people said, because people said, Nicole. So I'm actually representing the resort collection for 2026. Okay, now I see. And you will be seeing the ads in vote. You got in through the agency. Yes, I got it through the agency. That's smart.

That's smart. You got to go through the agency. And Josh, who are you wearing tonight? Well, I'm glad you asked. So I'm wearing... 360. I'm wearing tomato. Give us a little 360, please.

Okay. Come on, get up. I have a lot of room. I'm wearing tomato ketchup by a little... By a little German designer called Heinz. Do you know Heinz? I've heard of them. I don't think they're sponsored, though.

It doesn't look like you have any logos on there. It's actually interesting. This is so uncomfortable. We can take it off if you. Heinz, I'm keeping mine on. Heinz was actually the first to take the word ketchup out, sorry, the word tomato out of ketchup. Oh, so. When marketing their ketchup.

Why? Why do you think that is? Because, so, for instance, like, when we see the word tomato ketchup, we think of it as being almost like an ATM machine or VIN number as being redundant. That's true. That's true. Because ketchup is tomatoes. but ketchup wasn't all those tomatoes.

And so Hines was the first one that, like, tomato ketchup, God, I think this was in the 1870s, became so ubiquitous at the time that they were like, guys, we don't even have to put tomato on the bottle anymore. They know what the deal is. They know who we are. This ain't tomato ketchup. This is just ketchup, baby.

And also, though, you've seen C-A-T-S-U-P. Of course, yes. I have talked about cats-up versus ketchup. So that was the Americanization of, in Britain, they were spelling it, K-E-T-C-H-U-P. And in America, they were like, we're going to be different, so we're going to spell it catsup. And then Heinz is like, we're just going to go back to the birters thing.

We're going to drop the tomato. And so Heinzily modernized ketchup. So anyways, this is still my homage to the designer Heinz, except I got this in the garment district in Los Angeles. In Santiali. In Santiali. Yeah, yeah. Next to all the pinatas of like the green Spider-Man that's on license, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah.

So the reason why we're doing this today is because we're going to end the ageal debate of Which is better ketchup or mustard. People debate it. They've been debating in four ages. I know what you're thinking. Why can't both of them exist? They can't. We need to find a better condiment.

And actually, I wanted to be ketchup initially. But then halfway through my research, I said, um, actually, Josh, can I please be mustard? And he's like,

cool, dude, do whatever you want. And I want to say that at no point did I ever want to rep mustard. I have no affinity towards mustard. I feel... I think I forced your hand whenever we were talking about the...

Which is fine. And I'm fascinated by the history of all this. And if we're being honest, so much of this show over the last six years has been phrased as sort of a debate as a versus. It's never really. It's never really. Do you remember there was a time like five years ago and we were like we were. We have to make sure that the creative is versus. Yeah.

Or like that you and I had distinct positions. And it just never stuck because I'm not back. Because we don't have to sink positions. No, we're going to say that must like mustard wins. So what? Who cares? I'm here to talk about the history and why I love both. But, like, in my own life, I don't even know if I can probably consume more mustard than ketchup, but I love ketchup significantly more than mustard.

And I think it's historical significance is greater. So interesting. I find myself leaning towards more mustard the older I've gotten. I think when I was younger, it was all ketchup all the time. And I used to actually despise mustard. I wouldn't even touch mustard with a 10-foot pole. If it was on my food, in my food, I could notice it. And I would physically have a, like, an reaction to it.

What kind of mustard? All of them? I hated all mustard. Whoa. I don't know. And then I looked something up online that was like your taste buds change every seven years. And I don't know if that's, like, true or not. But, like, I guess, I guess your flavor.

I just trust round numbers. Seven's not around. Well, seven years. Isn't seven prime? Yeah, seven's prime. But I'm saying like seven years is a round number. It seems very convenient that they would work in multiples of 365 days. very evenly.

You know what I'm saying? Sure. Yeah, I think it's just a guesstimate of seven years. But I remember seeing that and I'm like, okay, whatever. And there was this one girl in school that I used to just eat mustard packets. That's crazy. We all knew a mustard kid. Yeah, yeah, I knew it because they used to dip their tater tots in mustard at the cafeteria and we're all like, that's crazy.

Yeah, yeah. It was like, oh yeah, you're traveling around with little mustard packets. That's wild. So I just didn't understand it. But then the older I got, I started to have an affinity for that, like, bitter tang and that spiciness that only mustard has. And really only mustard has it. And I was searching for that flavor, and I found it in mustard.

And it really is a delicious condom. It's good on just about everything. And also, it's a great additive in things. Like, in salad dressings, you can put, like, a squirt of mustard in there. But I don't think you can put a squirt of ketchup. In your ketchup. In your salad dressing? Thousand Island.

Catalina, French dressing, Russian dressing. All have, I mean. Like, are you putting that on? salads all the time? You know what the messed up thing is? Those are dips. No, they've been co-opted as dips. These are salad dressings. Like, Thousand Island dressing is a salad dressing. Yes, it is. And I love like crappy, not crappy, but

beautiful old school diners. You can go to Lancers in Burbank and you can get the chef salad that is taken straight out of a fridge where you don't understand how the iceberg lettuce hasn't frozen with how chilled. But you love ice cold salads. I love ice cold salads. I don't like ice cold salads. Well, no, I typically, I love the idea of somebody just grabbing a pre-made salad out of a fridge, taking off the plastic wrap, and then giving me, I will get a Sousin Island dressing as my salad dressing at like a Lanzers or a Bob's Big Boy. Right, right.

So you can't put ketchup, but I know what you're saying. Like a vinaigrette. A French vinaigrette. I guess me and you are just different. Like, you're reaching for Thousand Island, and at this point in my life, I'm reaching for balsamic vinaigrette. To be clear, I make a lot more. Like I said earlier, you make more vinegrettes. I probably use more mustard in my house.

specifically a Dijon or like a French mustard. Then I do ketchup. But a lot of that is based on, I'm mostly cooking for Julia and myself. Right. She hates ketchup. Like passionately hate it? What about when you eat schnitzel? When you eat schnitzel, do you have like chicken schnitzel?

I always assume that you make chicken. Actually, no, I do. I do. I make a lot of chicken cuttle. I wouldn't call it schnitzel. Okay, chicken cut. And I'm mostly like baking it. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, you are. Okay. Are you putting ketchup or mustard on it? Because. Why are those the options? Those are options? I mean, you. Yeah?

Is it from mustard? No, I'm making like a yoghri-chipoli thing. Oh, you are? Thingy thing or or... Is there mustard in the yogurti chippole? On the other time? No. No.

Basically, it's kind of like a mayonnaise sauce sauce, but I cut that with Greek yogurt. Interesting, okay. For health and then some spices in there. But no, no, no, if I'm making a chicken cutlet, I'm mostly putting mariner on it. Like, we're mostly doing like a chicken barn. Wow, me and you are so different. Or I'm putting it in a salad, so there's then some sort of like caesery. Oh, my gosh.

Me and you are so different. So whenever I make chicken cutlets or chicken chisel at home, I always, I always, always, always, always serve it with the side of ketchup. Because it's like a chicken tender. It's like a big old, when you get chicken fingers, what do you dip your chicken fingers in? I never dip it in ketchup, and I've never did. This is crazy.

Honey mustard. Honey mustard is my favorite chicken dip, but also ranch and barbecue. Barbecue is like tomato with that. To me, chicken and ketchup don't taste right. Wow. Chicken and ketchup don't taste right. Chicken nuggets and don't ketchup don't taste right. Stop.

I've never dipped a chicken nugget and ketchup. Yes, you, okay. French fries and ketchup, hamburger and ketchup. Wonderful. Mustard on hamburger, don't taste right. taste right to me. I agree. You want to know why?

Because it reminds me of a backyard barbecue burger and I hate those. Same. They're never good. They're never good. They're pucks. They're puck.

Well, I, if I make a backyard barbecue burger. Then it's awesome. That's awesome. But no, but yeah. I grew up eating so many bad ones. I do have an Uncle Larry and his burgers are terrible.

Do you have an Uncle Larry? I do, yeah. No way. Mom's on side. Huh? Mom said, mom's side. South African, yeah. No way.

Yeah, really, really. I can't think you have an Uncle Larry. Actually, it's a very positive influence in my life. Yeah, really love Larry. But his burgers suck? Yeah, yeah, not a cook. Also, another point for mustard, if you will. There's like 25 different kinds of mustard.

There's only one ketchup. I know. And I would say that is actually a benefit to ketchup. That is a boon to ketchup's argument. Malcolm Gladwell actually wrote about this. He wrote about that idea of there being so many different types of mustard and only one type of ketchup. And we'll go back through the history of ketchup because there were many, many types of ketchup before this. Before this.

And still, you can tell you got your... You're curry ketchup, sweet spicy to ketchup. Oh, banana ketchup. Oh, just, no. Chicken and banana ketchup tastes right to me. That's true. There ain't enough tomato in it. I do love banana ketchup.

But that's either here nor there. We're not talking about the outlines. The reason there's only one type of ketchup is because it's perfect. And when I say perfect, I don't mean, um... It's not perfect. I don't mean from, I don't know, like a godlike perspective, but I mean it's perfect in the sense that it balances all five primary flavors. It really does, right?

You have the bitterness of tomatoes. Tomatoes are a nightshade. They're bitter. You have the acid from the vinegar. You have the sweet from the sugar. You have a heck of amount of salt. And then you have umami from especially the glutamic acid that comes out when you cook tomatoes down. Tomatoes are already rife with glutamic acid.

Right, right. But you cook that down, you concentrate it. It has all of the flavors in them. I think mustard has one very unique flavor. And, God, I can't remember the chemical composition of it. but there is somebody A commenter just reached out about it because I was talking about the difference between capsacin spice

and mustard spice Two very different spaces They're entirely different chemical reactions It's like a nasal Oh it's like that Didn't Arielle Johnson talk about it when she was here? She did yeah yeah It's that nasally like

Like wipe off of your total palette Yeah what do they call like secondary olfactory Yeah Capacetam heat is different It hits you I believe in your tongue And like in your mouth Capsacin yeah only it reacts to the tongue Like that

There's like a vaporizing ability that mustard and wasabi has. Yeah, and it's beautiful, horse radish as well. Sure. But, like, that's a very fun, unique thing that mustard brings. But ketchup, to me, it balances all five primary tastes. I find ketchup to be the great equalizer. I think, I think...

It just allows for everything to be ketchup. Ketchup. You know what I mean? You think ketchup turns everything into ketchup. I think mustard accents. Yes, I find mustard to be an accent, a little bit of an interesting addition to your meal instead of where ketchup is just this blanket of flavor where it doesn't allow for anything else to shine. If I were to dip a tater tot into ketchup, a little coin of a hot dog,

the flavor would really be masked by that tomato. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I were to dip it in mustard, depends what kind of mustard, I think the flavor would be accentuated. Like if you were to dip it in the potato-y, if you were to dip a potatoy like little nugget into the mustard, I think it would accent those delicious like fried bits and the salt in the potatoes and that soft center. But if I were to dip ketchup into it, it would just mask it with this sugary blanket of like acidic weirdness. I think you might be right about that. Yeah. Hi, everybody. I'm Maury Povich.

On my podcast on par with Maury Povich, I'm going to sit down with the icons, the stars and the faces at the very center of today's big cultural moments. with everyone from comedians Josh Johnson, Dan Soder, Leon Morgan, to newsmakers Don Lemon, Joy Reid, Aaron Parnas, and so many more. So join me for new episodes every week because nothing is off limits. Great conversations. They're always on par. Follow and listen to On Par with Mori Popovich wherever you get your podcast. I think you might be right about that.

So I'm going to go back to something you were saying earlier about how you started appreciating mustard more as you've gotten older. Yes. And when you were a kid, you appreciate ketchup. more and didn't like mustard. When I was a kid, I was one of those weird kids that wanted to grow up so fast as a child, the childhood trauma that got me to love black coffee from such a young age, you know, where I was like, I want to be an adult and I want to have an adult palate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I was a kid, I would have said, like, I love horseradish

mustard and hot sauce and things over ketchup. As I've gotten older, I think it's part of, like, reclaiming a little bit of my childhood is to try and figure out what are the tastes that I actually enjoy. But that you actually enjoyed or you actually enjoy right now. I think both. I think both. You don't think there's been like a major shift. Like what is actually pleasurable to me?

But I think there is a shift in your actual palate. But to me, this comes down to so much more like identity as opposed to what's happening on your tongue. Right. I always see the poetry instead of the science and a lot of things. So somebody like George Motes, who says like ketchup is a child's condiment and putting it on a hamburger ruins it. I think back to like the hamburgers that I really love. loved as a kid. There's ketchup in and in and out spread. You know what I mean?

There's ketchup on a wopper. The burger is also mustard fried at in and out. You have to ask for it, but... I don't even like it. I don't care for the mustard fried. I don't... I've never got my burger animal style. I mean, I've ordered it. I just I don't need an animal style burger. We'll talk about that later. I like to stander.

Literally later today. I think I made it normal side. We're literally talking about that literally later today. But anyways, no, but there's, to me, like, the flavor of a Southern California fast food hamburger, the Carl's juniors of it all, you know, the jack in the box. Like, that's like hot ketchup and mayonnaise on it. And I've never really loved mustard. But that said, if I'm, oh, and anyways, when you're a kid, you appreciate sweeter.

Right. Tastes more, right, right, right. As you get older, you more appreciate better, mostly because your taste buds sort of dull. At least the way that I understand it, when you're a kid, your tastes are super sensitive. So instead of changing every seven years, it dulls, you say? Yeah, yeah. And whether that's physiological or even just, you just, you. you're not experiencing as many new flavors.

Spoking all of the cigarettes at 12 years old. But, like, you know, when you're a kid, like, the sugar and salt, you're like, ah, it lights up your palate. And then the bitterness of mustard, it repels you. It's like the shock of adulthood. Literally, yeah. And then as you're an adult, you're like, I just want to feel something, man. Give me that crazy mustard at Philipp's. Come on.

Oh, my gosh. The mustard? Okay, so the mustard at Philippe's. Oh, Philippe, the original downtown Los Angeles. Best Restaurant in the world. Okay, so every time... It's not the best, but it's like... Can I tell you something?

So, I have told my husband time and time... Because, you know, people always ask me, like, oh, what's your favorite restaurant? And everybody wants me to say something like, oh, enaca, um, like a citrine, or whatever like that. You know what I mean? Like, people expect me to say things like that. But when I say Philippe's, people always get so upset by that. Why, dude? My husband, in particular, he's like, stop saying Philippe's your favorite restaurant.

And I'm like, what it is. It's the restaurant I've been to. More times than any other. Every time I go there, I enjoy standing in line. I enjoy ordering there. I enjoy the plates. I enjoy the food. I enjoy the sopping wet sandwich.

So Philippes invented the French Dips sandwich. Yeah, sorry. They're in Los Angeles and they're wonderful. Josh, why can't I say Phelips? Phelips is my favorite restaurant. You should be able to say it. I think that is a very good. Thank you so much.

I'm so validated right now. You have no idea. David's like, don't tell people that Phileps is a favorite restaurant. Wait, it thinks it makes you low class? I don't know. Just because they have pickled eggs? that at the counter? I love pickled eggs.

I always get at least one pickled egg I always get a pickle egg. It's not a question of if I'm getting a pickle egg it's how many pickles eggs? I always get, I get two French dishes.

What's your order? So I get one beef French dip with American double dipped and then I get one lamb with Swiss double dipped and then I get one egg some sort of beverage

it could be a diet Coke or whatever and then a side of coastlaw and that's my order. And people tell me I shouldn't be proud of that. I'm so. And of course, I get like 15 little containers of mustard, and I put it in my mouth and literally go, oh! I go, oh, and it hurts so good.

The mustard at Filippe, see if Denture the French dip. It is the most nuclear mustard I've ever had in my life. It's brilliant. If you get one thimbleful over your threshold, you are going, you're just moaning for 10 minutes. It's like getting, it's like getting the horse at lorries, which is also like. favorite restaurant. It's like having... It's like beef and meat.

I just like beef and spice. So it's like they give you two horseradish cream options and they give you the horseradish cream that's cut with like butter and like sour cream. And then they give you horse radish cream. And if you put literally like a forkful in your mouth, you're done. You're out of commission. You can't eat anymore. So you have to be able to find the balance with mustard and horseradish and things like that.

But that's the fun part about mustard. Something like ketchup, you know what you're getting. It doesn't matter if it all tastes like ketchup. It doesn't matter if it's hans. It doesn't matter if it's hans. It doesn't matter if it's a little sachet that you find in your drawer next to the soy sauces and the chopsticks that you get from delivery sushi. It's always going to be the same ketchup.

And maybe that's a good thing about ketchup. Sure. But for me, the spectrum with which mustard exists, you can get any kind of yellow mustard for your hot dogs. Controversial, I know. You could do your beautiful whole grain mustards with your vinegrettes. You could do your spicy browns with your turkey sandwiches at your desk. Like there's so much to have. And then, oh my gosh, if someone buys you a fancy mustard, like a tarragon.

Oh, what a treat. Or a tarragon mustard. Oh, you get the William Sonoma Mustards? Oh, my gosh. Or if you, the, like, beautiful. Or like the red wine mustard. My gosh. Just that little, a little bit of that on like a cheese.

I find they're like kind of never, it's good. It's always exciting to receive one and not as exciting to eat one. I disagree. I want to go back to what you're saying about Filippe's and Lowry's with the mustard and the horseradish. Are they old people foods? Is that what you're trying to say? They're old people foods, but I think of the way that it's, like, sophisticated. But you said something earlier that actually kind of got me to rethink certain things about when you dip something in ketchup,

everything turns into ketchup. When you dip something in mustard, it actually accentuates it. And I was thinking about would I ever take a very good quality burk or something where I've been using my meat grinder? lot at home. Moosecraft barbecue. I'm really good. Moosecraft is great, but that's a very specific.

It's like a smoked burger. Like, even if I'm, like, grinding my own chuck and making my own little blend and, like, making a special burger at home, would I put a ketchup or a ketchup-based condiment on it? I don't think so. I'm more likely to put a mustard on it. In the way that you go to Lowry is I wouldn't dip their prime rib in ketchup. Oh, no.

I would dip it in a horseradish or mustard because that they're actually using a good quality beef that you want to taste the character of. And I think mustard can accentuate that character. Right, right, right, right. Even Philippe. So I know Philippe's invented the French dip because it tastes like they did. There's another place that I think has kind of been on the brink of extinction, coals that claims to have invented the French dip.

Every five years are closing. Yeah, I know. Every five years they're closing down. And they turn into a new hipster bar and there's a speakeasy or whatever. But anyways, like you taste those side by side. You're like, I know who the fucking invented this. Yeah. Right?

One of them tastes like processed trash. The other, I see an old lady in a hairnet, taking a roast out of a paper. pan and slicing. But, like, their beef in the aromatics are delicious. So good. And I get a plain beef dip wet and then no cheese. And then my... Check this out.

Second sandwich. I go wildcard. I'll go lamb and blue cheese. I'll get their ham dip with cheddar. I'll go crazy on a wildcard. I always just get my standard is just beef bread and then the juice. Right, right, right, right. And then that with the mustard, I would never put ketchup on that.

I would never in a million years... Because mustard is something that accentuates and elevates, whereas you're right, ketchup. flattened, but in a way, that's great. I don't want to taste the quality of jacking the boxes. Well, maybe if you did, maybe if you did, it would allow you to make other choices. Sure.

Right. Sure. But I think there's something beautiful about that sameness of ketchup, that it is a known quantity, right? And that's the reason it's so nostalgic, especially something like Heinz, who Heinz, I actually didn't realize was such a major player in modernizing

and defining what ketchup is and taste like. Tell people what ketchup was. So what ketchup was, I really grew to appreciate what ketchup was when I saw the term ketchup sambal. You know ketchup sombal? Never heard of it. I have a bottle in my fridge. It's K-A-C-A-P-Sombal, and it is a sweet, chilly sweet soy sauce from Malaysia. And I was like, this is perhaps ketchup?

And they're like, yeah, ketchup. I looked it up and didn't realize like ketchup. This ketchup is just a Southeast Asian native word. It likely comes from Hokkien, which is like a Fujianese dialect of Chinese. But like that's just, it's that old. It is literally thousands of years old. And was basically their term for fish sauce that then exists for thousands of years. There's also kind of alternate history because in Rome they're making garum, basically very identical, just fermented anchovies.

Right. But anyways, Dutch East India Company, colonialism, doing a very abbreviated history here. They go find ketchup. they start Europeans start writing about it in like the 15, 1600s. Right. It eventually gets to England and they develop a taste for ketchup. But then they start adding English products to it, like mushrooms and walnuts. I remember mushrooms.

Jane Austen. Jane Austen was a huge fan of walnut ketchup. Yeah, mushroom ketchup ends up coming to the colonies in America. Tomatoes were only in North America, I believe, maybe South America as well. But tomatoes are native to North America, so Europe didn't get them until 1600s. We weren't really popular until the 1700s. But then in America, they started making tomato ketchup in 1800s. It also became a weird health fad.

Really? Yeah. I mean, still to this day, you can get lycopene supplements. Oh, sure. That's just tomato. That's just the red and tomatoes. So they were making tomato pills in the 1830s. They were making ketchup pills.

I thought the ketchup pills were for diarrhea. I know the ketchup pills were giving people diarrhea. Oh. I thought it was for like GI discomfort. Oh, it was. Yeah, yeah. But it gave people diarrhea? It gave people.

Yeah, well, there was a hilarious. It's like era in America, it's like during the snake oil era that people are selling like fraudulent ketchup pills. But anyways, like it becomes a very American condiment. And then in 1870s, I believe, is when Heinz starts manufacturing ketchup. But Heinz changed the game so much in terms of food safety standards in America. Everything changed with the formation of the FDA in the 1900s. Upton Sinclair's, the jungle really blew the whistle and everything. But even before then, like there were people dying of malpractice in food.

manufacturing, which is like on mass, a relatively new industry in that sense. So people were dying, and then there were companies that were like, we should figure out how to get people to trust us more. Heinz was one of the biggest. They opened up their pickle factory to the public and were like, come see how clean we are. That's awesome. And then they were some of the first two pioneered natural preservatives because back then, like, imagine in 1870 where like they didn't even know how diseases were. How magnets work. Like they just didn't know any.

They didn't know what a vitamin was. You know what I mean? In 1870s. That was an insane clown posse. What? That was an ICP record. She said it. Not juicy J.

Violent J is his name. Juicy J is not Juicy J. J is juicy. But anyway, so like they pioneered the use of sugar and vinegar and salt as a natural preservative because people were adding so much sodium benzoy to things that it was just poisoning people. And so anyways, like they really, for so many different reasons pioneered how ketchup is supposed to like taste and how shelf stable it can be. For a product, tomatoes that has only grown three months out of the year, especially back then, you know. And so to me, like, the journey of ketchup, it shows our sort of ancient roots and how everybody wants.

And it maintained the same, you know, it's got umami, it's got salt, it's got sugar, it's got acid, it's got all the things that it always had. It's morphed over time. And to me, it's such a beautiful story of the way that ideas transfused throughout the globe. Well, sure, you can say the same thing about mustard. I know, you really can, though. Mustard has been around since 3,000 BCE. They mix it with grape must, and they called it mustum ardon, which means burning, what was it? Burning must.

And then it became popular medieval Egypt. Some people say that pharaohs were buried with mustard seeds as well. So it has a vast and complicated and beautiful history. It's so nuts that they just come together at Costco. Oh, you mean like next to each other? Like a hot dog. Like these two ancient condiments from that. Ancient.

Ancient. Ancient. That you could just go to Costco and while you're like waiting for your TV to get packed up, you go, oh, might as well get a hot dog. And you just squirt both of them on your meat to. It's beautiful. Why do you think people, especially Chicago and sorry, people from Chicago. I love you guys so much. I love Chicago. If I could move anywhere, it would be Miami and then Chicago. Why are people so anti-c ketchup on hot dogs? I think it's because people associate ketchup with childishness. Like an un-manly and un-adult. Un-adult. You know? Unadult. I think there's a level of manliness to the idea of being an adult who eats spicy mustard. And I think that's something that I... But all that mustard is spicy.

It's spice, but not spicy. You're right, you're right. But also, I do believe that women are more predisposed to like the spice from mustard and horseradish than men are, which is interesting. Is that true? Yeah, yeah. Whereas men are... Is it because we have boobies? It could be because of the boobies.

I don't know what the boobies are doing? What are they doing? The other day, I just, I didn't know what boobs were. I had to Google it. I'm serious. They're literally sacks of fat to feed. But it's different kinds of fat, though. It's like there's a different.

Yes. Yes. It's like a camel's hump. It's like made of different kind of fat. I don't know about that. I think it's just sacks of fat that have glands to feed your child. That's what boobs are. What is a gland though?

A gland? A gland is part of the endocrine system. Sure. But like what is. it's made of meat. I mean, meat or fat? I don't know.

I think it's made out of tissue. I think it's made out of tissue. Okay, so like sweetbreads. Those are... That's a gland, right? Those are, I believe... Are those thyroid glands? I think it's thymus.

Thymus. Thymiss. No, thyroid. Some people refer to the pancreas as sweetbreads too, but... That's false. I think they do that in Brazil. Yeah, it's like a weird. It's like a regional thing.

Yeah. But it's like, yeah, so it's like sweet breads. There's no... I shouldn't admit that I had to Google what boobs are. You should do that on the work? I didn't, it wasn't images. It wasn't images. It was all results.

It was the work locked. What is boobs? What is boob science educational? Boobes.com. Josh went on boobes.com. I went to boobs. I went to boobs. Because I thought it would be educational.

And it was. I don't think the boobs have anything to do with women preferring heavy mustard spice. Oh, I see. I see. It just so happens. I think it's coincidence. It just so happens. They're comorbidities to each.

other. But honestly, I'll say this. I'm reaching for ketchup and mustard a lot of the time. If you... You know what I mean? If you... Wow, women really can't have it all. I'm reaching for both.

You can work and be a mom. You can have ketchup and mustard. That feels personal, though. You can do it all. If you were to, like, really give up either for the rest of your life, how would it affect you personally? Well, me? And I would say that counts as ketchup as an ingredient.

which I think would preclude most, maybe, most barbecue sauces. A lot of barbecue sauces are using ketchup as a base. One thing about me, I don't reach for barbecue sauce like that. I mean barbecue sauce at least once, twice a week. I love making barbecue chicken with roasted sweet potato fries and cold sauce. Oh my gosh. I never, oh my God. I think I have maybe made a barbecue chicken or barbecue adjacent food in my house,

married to my husband, maybe twice. Maybe twice. I'm not reaching for it. I feel like David's a guy who liked barbecue. I feel like he would appreciate it if you made more. You can take him. You can come over for barbecue chicken. You can go over here.

I really do it all. I put wood chips in a foil bag, put it on the grill, got a little smoke on it. You know what? Just have him come over after he's studying. Just have him come over. But no, I never make barbecue at home. I do have ketchup a lot, like, as an option. I like ketchup with my eggs.

Same? So I do find myself reaching for ketchup. I do find myself using mustard, though, a lot. Again, I use it. Salad dressing. Salad dressing. That's the main thing for me, but I could kill it for my salad dressing. I use it as a marinade for my food sometimes.

I had a in there. I use it. I do, I'm laughing because I'm trying to think of all the things that I use it for. But I do use it, like, again, on the side of, like, a little girl dinner, like with little cheese and little meat. I just do a little squirt of mustard. It's great. I might use it tonight. Because I'm thinking, I'm thinking very, I blink a lot when I think very deeply.

I think I'm accessing my mind movies. I'm trying to think what I use mustard for. Like what I might be using? I'd take a lot of coffee in LaCroix. I might use mustard tonight. Yeah, that's a coffee. It was bad. It was one of the new flavors.

I might use it tonight. Check this out. What's up? You ever make Andeatatat, what's it called? Ondive gratinet. Do you mean El Grattan? Ograt and end dives? I inexplicably have end dives.

Check this out. No, no, don't do that. Don't cook the end dives. What are you? I'm cooking end dives. Don't cook. I'm wrapping the end dives in ham. Don't cook the end dives.

I'm wrapping the end dives and ham. I'm searing them. I think I'm going to cut the end dives in half long ways. Wrap it in a single piece of check this out. Pursuto from Japan. Julie and I have already eaten the prosciutto from Japan plane. So Julie, my wife went to Japan and she met a bunch of really cool, like, farmers and food producers. And some guy just like, I think he's just a hobbyist and makes prosciutto.

How cool. Out of Japanese pigs and just kind of like cates him to her. And so we already ate one like normal style, just, you know, eat prosciutto with bread, whatever. And so now we have kind of like the, the dresser food. of another pack and I'm like, let's mess around with it. So I'm going to wrap half-cut endives in that, sear it off, and then I'm going to make like a Dijon spiced brachamel, and then pour that over and then gratinet it.

I'll say this much. Sometimes on packaging of mustard and ketchup, it says fancy. But you know what? It's not what it's all about. It's just about the way it tastes, man. Was that a prepared statement? Was that the hell are we talking about it? Please don't cook your end dives.

I don't think there's a winner, clear winner here. I think we can both coexist and find peace within one another and each other. Wow. Oh my gosh, she's running. Risa's knows a thing or two about great combinations. Chocolate and peanut butter, obviously. But there's more than one way to Rises. From indulgent Riesas Big Cups with caramel to crunchy Ries' pieces and Ries's miniatures, There's a delicious Reese for every mood.

It's the same combo you love, just with more ways to enjoy it. So, whether you're snacking, sharing, or just treating yourself, nothing else is Reese's. All right, Nicole, we've heard you and I have to say, we mostly talked about French dip sandwiches. How can you not? It's how to know you're one other weather that we're in a universe. Time for the little single week, Kyle. Opinions are like casseroles. All right, headphones.

That's how we hear the opinions That's right I forgot about that We're already wearing so many accoutrements It's just one sheet It's a dress Josh That's perfect

It's Marlon I hope you do well But all right I hope that this is not too hot of a take Uh uh what if it was No No one gets to tell me What I can and cannot put ketchup on

Yeah There is that Sleep spot up in, like, upstate New York, where they don't even let, it's a burger joint, they don't even let you bring in ketchup. Screw that. That's crazy. And I'm sorry, I can put ketchup on a frigging Chicago dog if I want to.

Don't dread on me. That is my fake. I would have tried that. Hopefully that's not too hot. Love you guys. Peace. See round. Peace.

Love you too, man. This is such a deceptively political debate. Right? I do, guys. This is like when people are like, I have American. I have free speech. And it's like free speech doesn't protect you from consequences.

It protects you from, like, consequences from the government and employer. But not from people telling you, you're an asshole, right? I agree that you should be allowed to bring, put ketchup on whatever you want. You get takeout from, we have our own, you talked about that burger place in upstate New York. I don't have you talking about, like, Louis Lunch and, like, Connecticut or whatever. We have that here. We have that here, father's office. Anti-c ketchup place.

Anti-c ketchup plays. They don't want to bake it. But if I get a, and if I go. into this restaurant, I'm not bringing my own ketchup. They would have a right to say, hey, don't bring outside food into a restaurant, you jackass, and they would have a right to ask me to leave. 100%. You can't just do that.

It could even be a cross-contamination issue, you know what I mean? But I get that to go. I'm eating in the parking lot. I can put ketchup on it. I think that's your right, but it is also their right. And I think it's kind of cool in restaurants have standards like that. Yeah, but also it's, there's no problem with, like, exhibiting restraint. Like,

yeah. How about you try it without ketchup first? Yeah. And see how like it and then smother it in your sugary, vinegory, tomatoy mess. For instance, I love ketchup on a hot dog. I also love ketchup on a hot dog. I don't know if I would love ketchup on a Chicago dog. One, a Chicago dog is already sort of walking line between something I like. It's through the garden.

Walking through the garden. There's already just so much vinegar and sweet from the relish. There's already so much cold on it, frankly. I love to load on my hot dogs. I've always been a hot dog loader. Really? I don't leave. I love loading hot dog.

up, but not my burgers. Okay. Interesting. I could put like 12 things on a hot dog and have a good time. I'm like the opposite. Wow. I think for something about a hot dog, I love a clean tube-shaped food. Totally different. Load it on on top of one another like that.

If you can't get all the bites, all the components of a hot dog in one bite, I kind of dislike it. Oh my gosh. No, no, no. It's always an adventure with a hot dog. You got to kind of eat around it. I love to be able to shove the whole. thing in my mouth. See, I'm like that with a burger.

I'm a burger, like, a purist. Yeah, funny. So I don't love to load it up with, like, sauces and, like, vegetables. Like, if I had meat, cheese, bun, and, like, maybe a pickle, I'm good.

I think I like what Marlon's saying, though, about not extrapolating necessarily people's wants into judgments about the character. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Let them put ketchup.

Let them put ketchup. Let them eat ketchup. That's what I say. Let them eat ketchup. Apparently, that was taken out of context when Marie Antoinette said that. Yeah, I know there's a weird funky history around that. Did you ever watch the Marie Antoinette movie that Sophia Coppola made? Yeah, I love that movie.

That was like my comfort movie for like years. Huge crush on Cirsten Dunts, man. She's not my type. Who is your type? I don't know. Okay. Not her. Wow, okay.

Monica Baluci is the most beautiful woman on Planet Earth, in my opinion. Gotcha. Next opinion. And I love the fact that she's like, anyway. Next question, please. Okay. My food I take is that ketchup doesn't belong in anything

except a poor man's recipe. Can you pause? Can you pause? Can you pause? This man has the most gorgeous voice I've ever heard. I'm sorry for making fun of your laugh. Your voice is beautiful. You should go into voiceovers.

Okay, continue. Beat-ass ketchup in it. Immediately double. Turn it off. Go it away. Get it out of here. That's my eyes. Love you

I love you I love your voice Can you sing You'll never find Another Love Like Mine By Lou Rawls Great song I want to hear him sing it

I don't know if I agree With this take We can all agree What a lovely Melifluous deep voice that was It was beautiful I don't know if I agree That ketchup doesn't belong

In anything Except for a poor man's recipe You know what I mean I understand the fact That if you are Like what? A sloppy Joe Like a sloppy Joe

That's a sloppy Joe Is a great example of where ketchup does work in the context of like a scrap poverty food. I love Sloppy Joe's. Slopi Joe, you can take the crappiest possible ground meat scraps, and you're mixing it with like onions and whatever veg scraps. If you have peppers, if you have peppers. Whatever else you can throw in there.

I put some cabbage in a sloppy job. Ew, ew, Josh. I love, check this out. I love beefing up the volume of my food with various forms of cabbage. I would never put cabbage in a sloppy Joe because I love myself. I put kosaw on top of it and make a little sand to witch. You know, you take ketchup. Make a little sand a witch.

Cabbage, you know, I take cabbage and I'll saute it. Do you ever put it? Barbecue sauce in your sloppy jo's? Barbecue sauce is just ketchup. It's not just, it's part of. It's part of. It's a problem of what we're talking about that. Barbecue sauce is a flavored ketchup.

Huh? Not all barbecue sauce. It's a component of barbecue sauce. It's tough to even talk about barbecue sauce. There's also mustard and barbecue sauce. It's tough to talk about barbecue sauce. is a monolith because you've got so many different There's no such...

I agree, I agree. But if we're talking about like Casey Masterpiece or like a Stubbs or a sweet baby rays... Are you a KC. Masterpiece House? Actually, never were, despite the fact that we grew up in Kansas City. You always reference Casey Masterpiece. To me, Casey Masterpiece was the store, like the name brand of barbecue sauce. How interesting, no.

We were a, when it was on sale, we were a bullseye family. Never had Bullseye. And I'll tell you what, Bullseye was always on sale. And to me, it had the most liquid smoke in it. Too much almost. It was so good. Almost too much, yeah. But you know what I mean?

Like that style of American barbecue sauce, it's ketchup plus more vinegar, sugar, and spice. But there's already vinegar, sugar, and spice in ketchup. It's kind of just a little bit of, like, a doctored ketchup. You ever make homemade ketchup? Yeah, it kind of sucks. Disgusting. You ever make homemade mustard? Kind of sucks.

sucks. They do good job in the factories. They do good job in the, good job factories. Yeah, Slavby Joe is a great example of how ketchup really can. Just that idea of, like, so much vinegar and sugar. Covers of a world of hurt. cover a world of hurt. So I do, I do think that there's a little bit of merit in what you're saying, though.

Do you pick ketchup in it in Shepard's Pie? I wouldn't do that. You would, though. I'd put mustard in it. I think I put both last time I made it. But that was a weird thing where I instinctively put, what's actually crazy is I didn't put ketchup in it. I didn't tell a story of why Julia hates ketchup. She was doing, she was a theater kid, right, grown up, and they did a performance of God, is there a, Logan, were you a theater kid?

No. I hear a jock, yeah, we're jocks. You're the biggest theater kid here. There was like, there's a thing, is there a play that's commonly done by children where there's a school shooting? I don't know. That's not familiar to me. Do you Google that? Is it, is it like, or bang bang your dad or something? Kiss, not kiss, kiss, bang.

What's that? I don't know, but anyways, she had to play dad and to feign blood on the children that use ketchup. Uh-huh. So she was like for hours just sort of covered in ketchup, like smelling it. And I actually was listening to, uh, color. I think it was listening to stuff you should know. You know me to call Julia live on the podcast? Why not?

You got anything else going on? See if she'll pick up on you. I mean, why not get it from the source, right? We can just keep going. Okay, so the reason why she hates ketchup is because she was smothered. She was smothered in it as a child. Oh, tough. Okay, so I take watermelon with mustard.

Insanely good. And I feel like nobody talks about it enough. Do you remember this? Yellow mustard. Really ripe watermelon. It's amazing. And I get called crazy for eating it. So this was...

You don't deserve to be called that. This was a big trend on TikTok. What did you mean big? People were eating watermelon and mustard. What was the big trend? You know what I mean? It was a trend. Because we just saw a couple videos

We called a trend. What are we doing? It would get like millions and millions and millions of views. I think that constitutes a trend. It's like Dalgona coffee was a trend. Coffee was a try. So we did our own take on that where Josh ate honeydew and mayonnaise. And to this day, the thought of it makes me wretch.

It was such fun times. We honestly had so much fun back then. We had a lot of fun. It was doing the pinini. And you did honeydew? Yeah. And help us. What we did, there was one, there's so many established visual languages now on TikTok, right?

Come with me. Like being the men. I didn't know what that cadence is, right? It's a restaurant review, right? That's the cadence of a restaurant review. And so back then, people were sort of discovering this sort of visual language of what videos were. And this person made this video eating watermelon and mustard where they had these just insane gigantic reactions where they would bite and they would go, and like their eyes would roll back into the back of the head and, you know, all this.

It's very odd. And so I did a faithful shot for shot of the original watermelon mustard video. but with honeydew and mayonnaise. Go watch it. Is it bad? You think it's still on TikTok? Shirley, do you remember? You get a hot dog there, Betty?

Do you remember that video where I was on all fours? Shirtless on all fours, the hot dog in my mouth? I didn't pitch it. I did not pitch it. The things we all did. Trying to figure out what our short form strategy was. And now it's just cut down whatever we were doing.

Have you tried watermelon to mustard before? Yeah. I haven't. I haven't. It's fine. It's kind of aggressive. I think just watermelon and salt is probably the best combination. I like watermelon and salt.

Even like tahine, I think is, I think watermelon is kind of a deceptively very delicate flavor. I love watermelon and teherne. I love tahin on pineapple. I think pineapple's strong to carry it. That might be my dream dessert is watermelon and tahine or like some sort of like polete. Pelletta version of that. Yeah, yeah. I love like, to me like the mango and the pineapple carry the tihine better than watermelon.

That's okay. You can be wrong. I don't mind. But I look like a mango naata. A mango naada? Do you mean a manganada? Mangoniata. I've never heard of called mango niada. What are you calling it?

Manganada. Manganada. Gave me the manganada. The jersey of manganada. No, mango niada. No, mango niada. Wait, what do I say? What?

You're just, but you're like, mangoes like mango. Mango nao nada is what I say. I don't know. I haven't said it in so long. It's just mango and chumoi. Is it just manganada? Is it not? I think it's mangonadas.

Maybe it's mangonata. I don't know. Anyways, delightful. Anything else, slogan? One more? You know what? I'm okay. Okay.

Come on, one more. No, Josh. We haven't got too much today already. Whoa. We have to hang out again. Come on. I'm okay. I don't want to do it anymore.

Nicole doesn't want to talk anymore. Okay, bye. We'll do one boy. No, no, no, no. That's called. All right. It's called baiting. Right? Is that what I just did?

Like, no, no, no. I'm like, okay, okay, okay. I think it's great to eat potato chips with ketchup. Yeah. And if you think that's weird, then I would ask you to define exactly what width of French fry. Hell yes. Is too thin to dip eating ketchup. Like, where is the cut off? point if you think that you shouldn't

dip in ketchup. Then clearly there is some metric by what you were saying well at that point the potato is too thin to be dipped in ketchup. Why did none of these opinions talk about mustard? It's all ketchup all the time. Only one mustard? I understand. Literally the last opinion was about mustard.

But that was the only one about mustard. I really like the cut of this person's jib. I like their jib and I like the way that it's cut. No, and I'll tell you exactly the way. They have a very dialectical view of the condiment to food relationship. Because what they've done is they've established the fact that fried potatoes and ketchup are a great combination that people in the world over seem to love. However, potato chips, which are just fried potatoes dipping in ketchup is often seen as anathema to polite society.

Stop using big annoying words I refuse Anyways So what they've said is For people that would say That potato chips Dipped in ketchup is inappropriate They want to know the exact width of potato

That deems them then appropriate To dip into ketchup But I will offer you A rebuttal I think we could find that Because you've engaged in what I believe is called Reductio at Absurdum Right? Check this out Where the idea is to try and like

Bring someone's point to the level of absurdity to illustrate why it's false, but I would argue that the American cut of French fry is thicker than, say, a shoestring that you would find often in France at, say, like, a bistro or something, where ketchup is not the dominant sauce to dip it in. So I would argue that effectively,

the thicker the fry up to a point does increase its relational benefit to ketchup. whereas the thinner the fry, I think, sort of decreases it. Erego, the closer you get to potato chip hood, the less likely it is to be dipped in ketchup, which means that doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong to do it, but there is less historical precedent for a thin potato. And I would argue that you get up to a certain thickness too.

It's sort of normal distribution along a bell curve of potato thickness in relation to ketchup dipability. What he said. On that note, I dip, I dip, Toasting ketchup, man. That's the thing that I do. I dip toasting ketchup. I dip toast and ketchup.

It's a jam. It's a lovely jam. I also love, love, love potato chips and ketchup. I would, I was never an onion dip home. That's something that was never, that never registered in my home, but I bought it recently. Oh my God. Onion tip. It's a little too.

It's a little too salty for me. It's like, because I grew up on it, it's a little too chemical leaf for me. I've made my own onion dip recently. Oh, well, that's different. Fudge, dude. That's different. Oh, my God. Five different caramelized out.

Oh my god. Lebenet? I've done that before. I've done, but I use creme fresh. Oh, okay. It was really good. I split lebanah and sour cream, I think, and a little bit of mayonnaise in there. Dude, nuts of stuff.

Oh, I did, like, a little, like, beef stock, too. Oh. I, like, put some, like, beef bouillon in the caramelized aliums to sort of, like, get that French onion. Nuts, nuts, nuts. And that kind of gave you that chemical sort of taste. Sounds delicious. Oh. Ha, ha.

Ha. Ha. Anyways, from that note. Thanks so much. She's out of the sandwich. We've got new episodes out every Wednesday on its own YouTube. channel that's called a hot dog as a sandwich also wherever we get your podcast.

Yeah, don't forget to subscribe. If you want to be featured on a pain in as like cast rolls, hit us up at 833 DogPod 1. And if you like watching us, then go ahead and you can find our addresses if you're really savvy. Don't find my address. You can watch us through our keyholes. No, no, no, no.

You can flip them inside out. No, we have a YouTube channel. I think someone did that to spy on yeah, a celebrity a while ago. Anyways, kind of what room they were saying in, flip the keyhole. Oh, yeah, super gross. YouTube, what I was saying is subscribe to our YouTube channel, Mythical Kitchen.

See all next time. Subscribe to our YouTube channel, a hot dog is a sandwich. No, I already said that. And then now this one is where I say, if you like to see us do other things, we also have a YouTube channel called Mythical Kitchen. Well, people aren't, since this isn't going to subscribe to two YouTube guys. None of this works. No, no, this has been proven.

I'm serious. This has been proven. Cut the tape. Cut his mic. Cut his mic. Notice YouTubers stop saying, like, comment, and subscribe. No one says that anymore because it doesn't matter. It's just YouTube either feeds you the slob or it doesn't.