A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Should We Ban Forks?

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

Today, we're discussing the biggest utensil debate of our generation: forks vs spoons. Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Nicole, do you know I haven't used a fork since November of 2018? That's not true. I literally saw you use a fork yesterday. That's beside the point. Forks are still trash. This is A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense.

A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show where we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Scherer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inaidi. And, Nicole, today's episode, we had initially called it Forks vs. Spoons. Yes, I'm going to use that title.

And this has been in our, like like potential idea list for what? Since we started the podcast. Yes, for about two and a half years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always at the bottom of the pod. And we haven't ever done it because we thought this is stupid. It is stupid. Definitely.

But it's time to do it. Nobody's listening to it. Not only is it time to do it, I feel like it's the right time to do it because I've finally gone clear. Oh, now? Yeah. You ever have those moments of clarity where you're like, this is now. I have made a decision. It's going to dictate the rest of my life.

I don't operate like that, actually. Well, I do. And the decision that I've made, Nicole, is that when I have children, I will not raise them with forks in the house. You're lying. I'm going to start getting all of the forks out of my house right now. I'm going to start throwing one in the trash can every time I do the dishes. A forklift home? A forklift home. A forklift house does not make a home no but for real i i've okay so julia's out of town right and i've been cooking for myself and all that um yesterday in

the sink i had eight dirty spoons not a single dirty fork and it just i just realized that like my actual usage forks never come into play ever i never use them i i if they come with my sweet green salad nicole i will begrudgingly eat it however there is nothing a fork can do that makes my life any better and and and further i feel that forks are a class structure meant to keep working people down and conform to societal standards uh forks are classist what what i rest mike what do you mean forks are classist they just have prongs and you stab your food with it why it's not it's not that deep stop trying to make you go back in time stop politicizing utensils if you go back in history n Nicole, I think, no, but for real, like the invention of forks is a relatively new thing.

So spoons have been used for forever. I like spoons. I love spoons. The world loves spoons. You know why? Because they're easy to use. They're useful. People love eating wet food.

Spoons, they put wet foods in your mouth good. They've been used since literally prehistory, right? Yeah, sure. And also the ancient Latin and Greek word for spoon is really fascinating. It comes from shell because they would just use like shells as spoons. Sure, makes sense. And eventually it started making out of bone and all that. So like spoons, the world over uses spoons.

It's a really useful thing. I like spoons. Forks are incredibly new. Knives, very old, used them for killing things. I like knives. I like knives. Knives are very old. Used them for killing things. I like knives. I like knives. Knives are very useful. You should keep those.

I don't use a lot of knives in my house, though. Do you cook? No, I mean like to eat. I don't think, and a lot of cultures don't. Like I don't need it. So a lot of cultures don't. And I- The fork does the knifing.

I brought up the classism thing half as a joke, but like if you actually go back in history, so Louis XIVth you know about like the salad fork the fish fork of course a modern table a quote-unquote modern western table setting there's like three different forks yes three different spoons yes all the goblets and all that so a lot of that stuff a lot of these codifications of etiquette they came from like louis the 14th right and that guy sucked that guy one he was sexy he had sexy calves yeah oh i don't know about that did you okay so he literally commissioned all of his portrait painters to like port to paint his calves in a flattering light because he loved them they say louis the 14th

allegedly at least invented high heels to make his own calves look good and you look at any louis so this is the reason why i have to wear high heels every time i go out this is the reason keep it nicole keep that energy up damn it that's the reason you have to wear high heels every time I go out? This guy's the reason? No, Nicole, keep that energy up. Damn it. That's the reason you have to wear high heels every time you go out. Damn. It's because of Louis XIV. That's the reason that we have like four different forks in a modern table setting.

Look at those sexy calves. He really has such sexy calves. Yeah. And so literally a lot of these, what we consider like. Do you see these thighs? He's a sexy guy. No one's doubting that Louis XIV is a sexy guy. These thighs are incredible. The face, not a good face card. Sorry, Louis. He's a sexy guy. No one's doubting that Louis XIV is a sexy guy. These thighs are incredible.

The face, not a good face card. Sorry, Louis. But like one of the reasons he did all these things in his court, he made up all these codes, was literally to distract people from the idea of revolution. It was like if you keep people so bogged down in what is the cool dance I'm going to learn for the court, what kind of shoes do I have to wear, what kind of wigs do I have to wear, what kind of of fork do i eat with if you confuse people with all of these rules nicole suddenly they don't realize that like stop i swear you mean to tell me that the french revolution was was uh not when it was supposed to be because new forks were invented yes the french revolution is delayed you mean to tell me the french okay then what are you saying no but i i'm saying that there are these arbitrary rules of how you're supposed to dress

uh look carry yourself and eat and these rules are all arbitrary and they're all shifting throughout history and i think it is time for the fork to go because there was a point what what has the fork ever done to you before it's been a substandard eating utensil for eating pretty much anything is it like i think it is i mean what do you use a fork for think about it that that salad but like peas okay a spoon is a much better utensil to eat peas with no it's not what do you mean the peas run around you what do you mean they run around how does the fork keep the peas you stab them you're stabbing individual peas yes not scooping a mouthful of peas no how why are you you stabbing your peas? It's easier to eat that. Okay, I'm thinking, okay, so I might have used a spoon in the beginning,

but at the end when there's like seven peas whittling about on my plate, I'm not going to spoon them. You use a fork to push them into your spoon, and then all the peas can exist in one place. Okay, fine. So you still use a fork, though. So you're using it to push things onto your spoon. A fork could simply be another spoon.

No, it couldn't. No, it couldn't. You would not be able to eat the way that you do if you... See, you're lying. You're a liar. You love forks and you use forks all the time. You're lying. I don't actually love using it.

Okay, real quick. What do you like using more? Real quick, real quick. Back to the history of forks. This is important to me. Take it away. This is important to me. So forks, not really common or popular.

They had forks to use as cooking utensils because you'd stab a meat, you'd hook it onto sticks, and you'd roast it over an open fire or whatever. That dates back for a while. As far as an eating utensil goes, it wasn't until like the like 1100s that it really came about. And even then, it was still like a really newfangled thing. And there's some really incredible examples in history of people being straight up offended by forks. Like, okay, for instance, wait, hold up. I gotta look this up. Okay, so check this out.

In 1004, the Greek niece of a Byzantine emperor used a golden fork at her wedding feast in Venice when she married the Doge's son, the Doge of the ruler of Venice. Shout out AP European history. At the time, most Europeans still ate with their fingers and knives. So the Greek bride's newfangled implement was seen as sinfully decadent by local clergy. And I quote, God in his wisdom has provided man with natural forks, his fingers. One of the disdainful Venetians said, therefore, it is an insult to him to substitute artificial metal forks for them while eating. When the bride died of the plague a few years later, St. Peter Damien opined that it was

God's punishment for her hateful vanity. For using a fork? a fork for using a fork okay so that's just archaic thinking but she was advanced those guys those guys over there was okay so what's the problem she was because then the fork uh became really really popular in italy and in iran and i'm curious about the forks in iran forks uh were a big deal in Persia in like social circles. Like if you're a fancy, you ate with a fork. Wait, like how recently are you talking? Like back in like at the same time as this wedding probably. Okay, well, that makes sense because like there was a big exchange of ideas, right?

Persia was like a huge. They're always in history. No, but Persia was like a huge like trading partner in terms of ideals too. And it was one of the intellectual capitals of the world as well so that makes sense yeah uh but it really took hold in italy uh catherine de medici famously brought her collection of forks from italy to france in 1533 and she married king henry ii but literally england had banned forks because they thought it was an affront to god until like the 1600s so forks all's i saying, all's I'm saying is it is a very new invention in the history, in the sands of time, Nicole. Spoons and knives, vastly outdated forks, chopsticks as well.

So just because they're new means that they're bad? No, no, no. What kind of mentality is that, Mr. Technology? That's not it. I'm not saying forks are bad because they're a new invention in history, but I am saying that anything that's truly useful. I'm probably going to shoot myself in the foot here. Okay, take it away. Anything that is truly universal and useful throughout history was invented very early on simply by demand.

If the technology existed to make it, it would have been made early on. So like knives, right? Very easy to understand why one might need that right yeah bear coming at you yeah bear you get them the ribs of the knife that's how i'd kill a bear okay i'd also kill a bear with a spoon but that's because i'm a big strong man but no spoons are very useful they've been making them for thousands of years using shells and stuff that makes sense why did nobody until like 1000 a.d uh-huh think of eating with forks at a dinner table? Because there was no need for them.

You're eating with your hands. You're eating with spoons. There's no need for you to have an iPhone, but you have one. There is a need for me to have an iPhone. Okay, so because it was invented. Oh no, are you saying why wasn't the iPhone invented in the Paleolithic era?

Yeah. Because we didn't have the technology. You had the technology to make a fork. Did you not? How were you supposed to know you needed a fork? And they you not? How were you supposed to know you needed a fork? And they didn't. How were you supposed to know you needed a fork until someone had first made a fork?

How were you supposed to? No, no, forks existed. They just weren't on tables. They weren't on tables. And they shouldn't be on tables. They should be on tables. They can't be on tables. I think that the fork is only on...

Go ahead. No, you go ahead. No, Nicole, listen. You're just so impassioned. I would love for you to take this conversation into your own route. No, listen. You have a spork tattoo. You literally have tines on your arm.

You literally care about stabbing foods. Oh, Nicole, I would hardly call what a spork has tines. Wait, quick side note. I'm friends with like a bunch of crunchy vegans from college because you see santa barbara right okay and they would post a lot of like vegan memes and they're really funny because it's real in groupie stuff so one of the arguments for why man eats meat is we have canines the teeth right sure sharp and then vegans will be like there'll be these memes that are like you call thoseines? And it will be like a human's canine teeth next to like a saber-toothed tiger. It's like these are real canines.

And they're like, la, la, la. And I'm like, that's a weird dunk. They're like, cats have bigger canines than you. Anyways, point is, you call these tines? Yeah, obviously. No, real tines. No, a spork is different. One, I don't use sporks.

I don't eat with them. I don't like eating with sporks. You just like what they represent? I like what they represent. Which is what? It's duality. Not the Slipknot song, but that's a great song. But no, it's duality.

And also, I've gotten all my tattoos as jokes. And every tattoo that I get will roughly be a joke. Have you heard of the splayed? What's a splayed? It's a spoon, fork, and blade. Oh, the camping thing. Yeah, I'm into splays. Are you really though?

No. Would you actually use one? I've never had, I've never held one before, but I'm looking at a picture of one and I am into it. What's the most, other than peas, which we, Nicole. Salad. We made a chopstick. What about chopsticks?

What about chopsticks? Why not eat salad with chopsticks? What about chopsticks? I'm left handed I'm not deft at using chopsticks I'm not very deft at it I'm saying but you're not good at chopsticks because you didn't grow up using them So what? I eat a lot of sushi and I eat my sushi with my chopsticks And I eat my other food with chopsticks But I prefer to use a fork Because I am left handed and it's easier for me to use a fork

Does left handedness have anything to do with Forks versus chopsticks? Absolutely not. I just always use it as a crutch. Always, since childhood. I can't think that you have that. Well, it's something that I have and I will use. But imagine this,

like how some parents raise their children in like a genderless home, you know? Okay. I'm going to raise my children in a forkless home and this is just that. And so they're going to be raised with chopsticks and a Chinese soup spoon and then a Western soup spoon. And those are the only three utensils.

My kids will come over, but they will bring their own forks. I will. Because you've suddenly converted to Orthodox Judaism or because my very firm cousins all come with their own serving utensils to make sure everything's kosher. Josh, if I ever convert to Orthodox Judaism, I'm sorry. Well, it's a lot of like modern Orthodox, you know? And again, any form of religion is cool. Watch me in six months.

I'm going to be like, I'm going to eat Fridays. I got hammered with some straight Hasidic dudes. They were rad, man. Shout out to Shmuel. No, dude. I mean, let me tell you, forks, they have a purpose. They stab the food and you eat it. Okay, so to me, to me, to me, if I'm thinking of the best use for a fork, it's if you got a big old steak, right?

Okay, yeah, a big cut of meat. A big cut of meat. That you need to hold down with something as you saw it with a blade, with a steak knife. Or if the food is already pre-cut up and you just pick it up. But again, if I'm talking about... Like you get a steak at a restaurant and they slice it for you? Sure. You use a fork to pick it up.

Again, I'm thinking chopsticks are better for that. Chopsticks are better for that. But when are you... No, they're not better. They require two fingers. Fork, you just kind of hold. What do you mean? If you're only using two fingers for chopsticks,

then a fork is using the same amount of manual dexterity. No, the dexterity of using chopsticks is harder than using a fork not if you're native it's like uh okay well i don't have that privilege well okay but now nicole now is the time to reverse it i don't need to do that god gave me a fork and i use it did you notice did you notice the fork was bestowed by God. Okay. When we made pastas, as Giada DeLaurences would say, pastas. Pastas, uh-huh. Did you notice what I ate my fettuccine alfredo with? Yeah, you ate it with chopsticks. I eat my chips with chopsticks.

Oh, so you are good at chopsticks. I'm okay. So you are good at chopsticks. Listen, I am a lazy person. You are good at chopsticks. I just don't. Listen, I am a lazy person. I don't like to use more than one hand when I'm doing things, okay? Why are you using more than one hand with chopsticks?

It's only one hand. I'm talking about the fingers. The hand versus the fingers. You have to think about using chopsticks because it's not native to you. Yes, I have confirmed that statement. No, I know. You're saying one hand, two hands. That makes no sense. Josh, if I go to a party and i'm eating with a toothpick how annoying

wait hold up more foods on toothpicks that's something we can't agree imagine i'm at a dinner party okay and there's a fork and a knife and i just come on i'm just using a tooth like oh yeah i think that's super cool honestly i'd be like this is a woman who is very confident she knows what she wants she knows what's going to give her the best experience. Are you kidding me? And she's eating with a toothpick. That would be so embarrassing. Wait, I have a question.

What? Julia and I eat a lot of cut up fruit. That's really nice. Thank you. So we'll buy the whole fruit. Does she cut it for you? No, I cut it for her. No, she does all the like, she like books travel and pays bills and all like the important stuff and i'm like you want some honeydew i'm better at that oh like for real when she cuts fruit it's all uneven sorry i just have a very like

a classic thing in my mind like the woman and she's like an acts of service i'm i'm not i'm like a physical touch guy you know what i mean and so like i'm just i don't know go uh rub my ear lobe while i'm cutting honeydew and then you're a physical touch guy yeah i know people will find it no way is that your love language oh yeah yeah i had no idea do we not talk about this no you hate being touched i have all of them i don't like being touched by people at work because it's weird we're just like we're hugging now it's me have you ever hugged it daniel you ever hugged me i would like to um um i have all five love languages well it's because of bad experience i i need them all i touched someone at work and it was weird

no not like that not like that no no i was like okay now I have to explain the story and I'm sorry to cut you off I have to explain the story now I was just at a new job and we were out at like a work dinner and like I was there with my boss and like five other

like freelancers we worked with so it wasn't here what? it wasn't here it wasn't here and she I was like 22, 23

like just trying to learn work etiquette and she like hugged all of them goodbye right? because they were all like friends she'd worked with them for a long? Because they were all like friends. She'd worked with them for a long time.

And then we were like walking our cars together in a parking garage. And I was like, all right, see ya. And went to like give her a hug because she hugged everybody else. And she was like, oh, whoa, we're hugging? Okay. And she like, she made it weird. And she was a very small woman.

And I was just like this 260 pound, like girl, come into my arms in this parking garage. Oh, sorry. It's not like touching people at work. It's simpler if you don't. Okay. What are your love languages? All of them.

God, of course. I was going to say you're going to be one of the people that says all of them. Except gift giving. I'm not the biggest fan. Because you compulsorily have to give a lot of gifts, it sounds like. No, I'm just very particular about what I want to wear on my person or have in my home. So don't buy me gifts. Just give me money.

That makes sense. Give me money. No gifts. Just give me money. That makes sense. Give me money. No gifts, money. Your love language is just cash? Just cold, hard cash? You know what my compatible zodiac sign is? I don't know. I don't know any of those.

Dollar. High five. Actually, mine is acts of service and words of affirmation. So basically, if you just say a bunch of bull malarkey in my ear, I'm kind of into it. I've been saying a lot of bull malarkey in your ear for the last two and a half years in this podcast. Yeah, what's up? All right, so you got a big cut of meat. Yes, I do.

You've established that it's useful. Yes, I do. Hold it with a fork. Uh-huh. But, but, but, but, I don't think we should ever be eating large cuts of meat. I think that should be up to the chef to cut that meat into smaller pieces so you can eat it easily. I don't think it should be up to the diner. Have you ever had a prime rib?

Yeah, okay, that's fun. That's fun. Listen, I agree with that. You want the chef to cut the prime with the little pieces for you to eat? But like... It sounded like nacho from what we do in the shadows. Not necessarily.

I'm trying to think now. I'm trying to think because that is like... I'm thinking of a lot of, say, you eat kebab, right? All the time. Kebab is already in chunks. Like chunks that need to be,

you know, might need to be cut a little bit or you just, you know, stab it with a fork. And and again i know i'm talking about forks but if i had chopsticks with cow bob i would prefer it no you wouldn't yes i would how are you gonna pick up all the rice excuse me okay well that's a good point persian rice tough to eat chopsticks yeah a lot of like chinese japanese rice easier to pick up chopsticks so there are reasons but i eat persian rice with a spoon um you know there's like a thing where like persian people don't use fork or something wait what like i'm serious nowadays like persian people you just talked about i know persia loves

forks i know i know but like there's like this thing where it's like i don't know what it is there's like a meme i don't know it but like there's a meme that says like oh persian people don't use forks when they eat or they don't use knives when they eat it's so stupid i use all they're right nicole they're right through's so stupid. I use all these methods. They're right. Nicole, they're right. Through the sands of time, through all of the passing history, the waterfall of past events that have come down, they are correct. Forks are useless. No! They're not useless.

What about when you're eating beans? What do you mean? Spoon! Spoon! No, but you don't need the excess liquid of the beans. Slotted spoon. A slotted spoon. Nobody eats this. Also, I want the bean. Who doesn't want the bean liquid of the beans. Slotted spoon. A slotted spoon. Nobody eats it. Also, I want the bean. Who doesn't want the bean liquid?

It makes you gassy. What do you mean? Then strain that and then serve that at the table, whatever you are intending to serve. But like actually, I think that is one thing that made forks such a staple in like Western cuisine, right? So you're looking at the cuisine of Western Europe. Like roast was literally a course in a classic French meal. Like you had your fish course, you had the soup,

you had fruit, and then you just had a roast. Sounds like fun. It sounds fun. Listen, I'm down for medieval banquet. Yeah. So it makes sense you'd be able to stab the big old roast that you're eating,

cut the pieces off that you want with a knife. But, but, but, my counter to that is that everybody should just be eating with their hands about four times more often. I agree. I want to say everybody. There's a lot of cultures that do just rock with their hands.

I love eating with my hands. Same. Why don't we do it more? Why don't we abandon forks? I do. Listen, just because I love forks and spoons and knives and cutlery doesn't mean that I can't also really enjoy eating food with my hands. I do eat with my hands a lot. What's stopping you then from just getting all the forks out of your home?

Nothing. Josh. I think you should. Would you entertain it for me? No. Why? I eat at my house with my man with a spoon and a fork every time we eat together. Spoon and fork.

Okay. I will say that's a pretty good way to eat i don't okay can i tell you what what this is making a perfect amount of sense i i don't love forks we've established that okay i especially hate knife and fork as a coupling we don't use knife and fork we use spoon and fork good so you're rocking like the filipino tie method okay yeah no so that's actually a big thing. So Philippines, right, is very common to eat with a spoon and a fork

and use the fork to push the food. Correct, correct. That is how I eat, yes. You use the back of the fork and you're scraping it in. Correct. Also, Philippines, a lot of the cuisine is like

very kind of like stew soup based. Yes, yes. Right, and that has to do with tropical climate. There's a really great essay on taste.com about the Filipino fork and spoon usage. And so that also exists in Thailand as well. And in Thailand, you would only really use chopsticks

for noodle dishes. Sure, makes sense. Which makes sense. Noodles are a delight to eat with chopsticks. And so I do respect the fork and spoon, but I also kind of think that the fork is a bit anachronistic, a bit vestigial.

It doesn't necessarily need to be there. It could be another spoon. It could be another spoon. That's all I'm saying. Okay. What are you, Edward Spoonhands? Get the frick out of here. You're crazy.

You ever watch Mystery Men? What is that about? Oh, my God. Great. Janine Garofalo, Ben Stiller, Kel Mitchell, Hank Azaria. Is that where they're all superheroes? William H. Macy, they're superheroes. I saw like a snippet of it on social media and I want to watch it. Oh, it's so good.

It looks so good. It looks like perfect like 2003-ish movie. Yeah, yeah. Jean Garofalo plays a superhero called The Bowler and her dead dad's spirit is stuck inside a bowling ball. William H. Macy is the shoveler. He just hits people with a shovel. And then Hank Azaria is the Blue Raja. And instead of throwing knives,

he throws forks. I'm into that. And I think it's great. That's the only good usage of a fork is for Hank Azaria to throw them at people in the movie Mystery Men. I don't know what you want from me.

At this point of the conversation, we typically have some sort of, you you know, like a middle ground. Like you and I are just vibing and like talking. But like at this point. You think we vibe during this? But I don't. I think you and I are on very opposite sides of the spectrum. I think you're not going to give me any slack.

I'm not going to give you any slack. I would just appreciate if when your children come over to eat at my children's home that they don't bring forks and that they're just eating with their hands and spoons just got intended forks have a purpose you have to keep down the working class by keeping them confused with rules like when do i stab this thing no it's subconscious what do you mean you when you look at a piece of food, your brain knows, okay, I'll use this fork because I saw

my mom and dad do it. Well, that's why I need to break the cycle. And we need to start exclusively eating with chopsticks, spoons, and hands. I don't mind eating with chopsticks. I don't want this whole chopstick. I don't want you to think I'm a piece of crap because I don't eat with chopsticks that much. It's just easier for me to use a fork. Nicole, you gotta use the training chopsticks. I know I do know i just you know sometimes i do and i make my own training

chops out of a hairband on the paper if you're drunk enough it's hard it's fine like listen i'm drunk a lot i'm drunk a lot but i just i'm just trying to tell you like forks have a purpose and you keep saying like okay what do you think it would take for because people seem to be Okay. What do you think it would take for, because people seem to be gross. When I say people, I mean like, if I'm ever eating food with my hands on a video or whatever,

people all get comments, right? They're just like, that's disgusting. Josh, today I got you a whole chicken. Out of the kindness of my heart, I bought you a whole chicken, a $27 chicken, need I remind you. And you did not use a single utensil and we had coleslaw we had beans we had a hot link yeah you didn't use you used a fork to spear the hot link i tried to take it directly off the fork of my mouth you said no don't i'm not putting that in your mouth and so i grabbed it with my hands and i ate it but like you like you you just absolutely animalistically digging

your three fingers into the chicken flesh and shoving yourself listen one you and me baby ain't nothing but mammals so let's eat like they do on the Discovery Channel. Right? That's what I'm saying. It was visceral. And then you kept coming back into the sauces. But for some odd reason, like your first four knuckles, like your knuckles, like the second to third knuckle was just sopping wet. But for some reason, the pads were not. Don't tell me. I think I know what happened, if I can explain. So Nicole's right.

I was eating a whole chicken, just a whole animal into my body. But I had to break the joints apart. I like to break it into its primal cuts. And so I had to really dig my knuckle into the joints. And so that's how it would have gotten up there. Yeah, just like covered. And then you keep going into the sauces. And in my brain, I was like, a fork would be nice.

To be clear, there weren't communal sauces. There were an individual. I took a lot of them, to be clear. I took There were an individual. I took a lot of them to be clear. I took about six or seven. You took so many of the sauces. I had them arranged around my whole chicken. Oh my God. But to me, to me, that is the perfect example.

Like food is about feral joy for me. And I do that sometimes too, but there's, you know, at work. Why? Why can't people at work? Daniel, are you offended watching me just go to, I go to town? No, I love it. See, Daniel loves it. Why can't people at work? Daniel, are you offended watching me just go to town? No, I love it. See? Daniel loves it.

Why can't you be like Daniel? You just met him for the first time in person right now. No, we've met in person before. You've known me my whole life. You've been for three years of my whole life.

Nicole, are you disgusted with me when I eat with my hands at work? Yes. What if, okay, okay, okay. What if we got, wow, if there was a person from Ethiopia

and they're here, and Nicole, they're ripping injera, they're eating their door with their hands. I eat Ethiopian food with my hands. You're gonna say

you're disgusted by them? You're gonna say eating with your hands is disgusting? I eat Ethiopian food with my hands. There's a lot of cultures that eat with their hands.

You got a damn rotisserie chicken. Roti and subji in India. I like that. I eat that with my hands too. Oh, but you'd go over to someone's house with a fork. You'd go, oh, I need a spoon.

The doll. I need to fork the doll. I need to get each individual lentil on the tines of my fork. Oh, I thought you were talking about like feeding a doll. Oh, no, no, no. Like to teach the kid like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. I don't know how much I have to put on it.

I thought you were talking about like feeding a doll. Like teaching a kid like, yum, yum, yum. Eating with a fork. Which is what I'm going to do because I live in gosh darn America. I'm going to teach my kid to eat with a spork. I'm sorry. A fork, a knife, chopsticks. What other utensils are there?

A splayed. What else is there? Huh? Oh, a grapefruit spoon. A grapefruit spoon. I'm just going to teach him everything. Oyster fork. Probably no oyster forks in my house. But I'll teach my kid to do it. I'll teach him. just gonna teach them everything you know fork i'm probably no oyster forks in my house but i'll teach my kid to do it i'll teach him i'll teach him everything and if

they decide i want to go in with my hands i just gotta accept it oh i like using big old pretzel rods as chopsticks oh using a like a piece of bread as a as a utensil is a really good way to eat i mean that's how literally all of my favorite cultures. And that's how I typically eat at home. I shout out to Deep Nayak and his Gujarati family. But I grew up eating so many dinners with him. They would call it roti and subji. They'd have a roti or a paratha, chapati, whatever.

Some sort of Indian flatbread. And you use that as the utensil. And you scoop up the sub G, the main dish, the curry, whatever you want to call it. And you just pop it with the thumb and the mouth. And to me, that is such a beautiful, such an intimate way to eat. And Nicole, all I want is for people to be intimate with their food. Not like that, but kind of like that.

All right, Nicole, I've heard what you and I have to say. It sure was a lot. It's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the world. It's time for a segment we call Opinions Are Like Casserole. And, Nicole, we got some voicemails today. That's right. Yay! Call 1-833-DOGPOD1.

You can hear me and Nicole's sex hotline voices that we did not think were going to be the final take, but I'm glad they did. I knew they were going to be the final take. I did too, Nicole. This is my sexy voice. It's Buffalo Bill. I was once talking in an earnest, sexy voice a partner and they said i sounded like chad kroger from nickelback this is love chad i do too he's a sexy guy i love all this nickelback hate screw it i love nickelback the only reason people hate nickelback so much because they can't be nickelback they can't be all right let's roll the voicemail the voicemail man um what's up guys

uh my name's Akash. I've been listening to the podcast for a long time now. Love the podcast. Y'all are amazing. As for my controversial opinion on food, French food kind of sucks. I'm not gonna lie. The only flavors this guy going for it is meat

and salt, which are good flavors, like objectively good flavors, but there's no spice. If you want good food, like objectively good flavors, but there's no like, you know, spice. If you want good food, like Indian food is out there. Persian food is out there. Like there's so much other cuisine that's better than French food. So I don't know why French food is like hailed as it's like, Oh my God, the mother of all foods. Like, you know, it kind of sucks in my opinion, but yeah, that's, that In my opinion But yeah, that's my opinion Hope y'all are staying safe and shit

I don't know if I can say that You can bleep that out Have a good one Ah gosh, hitting the nail on the head So sweet So I recently came to the Revelation, resolution Like final idea that

French food isn't my top five favorite cuisine it is in your top five it is no way what's your top dishes i can't i'll tell you my top dishes but i don't want to talk about like my top five favorite cuisines yet i think that's actually a really good podcast that we can talk about but my favorite french dishes honestly i just love french bistro food like steak frites with a goat cheese salad is like a great meal. So what Akash was saying literally gets to the heart at what I'm saying with the forks debate, right? Okay. It is a like very Western European, Franco-centric ideal of what food should be. Should be, yeah.

It really goes back to Louis XIV and before that for sure. But the forks were meant to eat stuff like French bistro food. You get a whole breast of duck. You get a whole steak with the frites and all that. You get mussels and whatever. But that isn't how a lot of the rest of the world eats. And also, Akash, talking about not having spices in French food, certainly there's a lot of herbs and, like, you know, there are spices used. But there's that old joke that the English pillaged the entire world for spices and decided they didn't like any of them. And that is kind of true. So spices were really in demand.

We've talked about that dish, Sikh Baj, that came from Iraq in like, you know, the 700s. And it was just this spicy, sweet lamb stew that traveled around the world. So spices were really, really expensive. They were only for royals and very rich people, all that. But literally once spices got democratized and people could start buying them and use them in their own homes, that is when the aristocracy decided. I'm getting real political on this, Nicole, and we're freaking doing it. I can tell. That is when people decided that like, no, no, no, food should be simple and ingredient driven and pure. And that is a lot of what French food is, right?

Yeah. And I like food like that. I like pure food. You can like it. I mean, I don't like to put the word pure food on it. I mean, I think French cuisine is delicious. I do. Do I think other cuisines are also delicious? Yeah.

But I think French food is really delicious. And I don't like people that hate on it. I think it's unfortunate that people think that it's not good cuisine. It's very good cuisine. But nobody thinks that, right? Nobody thinks what? Like French cuisine, the only reason that people like Akash are now saying that like, hey, maybe French cuisine kind of sucks is because it was held at the top of the ladder to this day. It's because they codified certain things that we

still in schools we learn today codified things though right every culture is codified things i mean we codified and then it was just sent around the world well sure they but because of like a western supremacist value right they're like hey this is sure i mean it was good i mean i'm glad that i learned the things that i learned about escoffier and brigade systems and all the forks to use. I don't hate myself for knowing those things. You shouldn't. Nobody's saying you should. And I don't think putting French food at the bottom of the tier is good either.

But I think people can only say that because it's been held at the top for so long. And I think there's some reasons. And also other cuisines have been denigrated. For instance, right? Okay, so let's talk about, you know, Western food values. People couldn't charge. Now things are changing finally. But like for a long time, restaurants charging $18 for spaghetti with tomato sauce would be seen as normal. But you charge $18 for ramen and suddenly it's like, oh, but this should be a cheap noodle dish.

Is that true? A lot of this is coming from. Yeah, you can hear David Chang talk about it. I've never really done research like that on it. So I'm not really one to talk about it. So if you put French words in your food on menus, Dan Jarafsky actually did some incredible research on this. If you put French words in menus, you can charge significantly more money for that because people assume it has higher value, right? Calling green beans haricot vert, stuff like that. Interesting.

It sounds fancier because we've held up French food for so long. However, Indian food specifically, like, my God, the amount of time, labor, knowledge, skill that goes into a lot of Indian cookery is like utterly insane. And also, if you are used to eating food with that amount of spices cooked with that type of technique, making the tarka, all of that, blooming the spices in the oil, to then have somebody go, no, French is the best food in the world. You're going to die when you have this magret de canard and you eat just a duck breast with like a two-ingredient sauce. It's like, what the hell is this? Okay, what about the flip side? What about someone that grew up eating bland food and then they're told, you're going to have the best dish of your life and it's this really complicated, complex Indian dish? They're like, oh, I don't like that.

So what's the difference? I can see it be jarring. I mean, like I'm thinking of my grandma, right? She can't handle spice. So what's the difference? Because for me, like we talked about like chasing intensity of food experience, right? Yeah, sure. The most delicious food in the freaking world to me, I think once you start adding all those spices and whatnot,

again, these are things that dominated world trade literally, right? Sure, yes. You know, for forever. So obviously, historically, we see those as important, you know, to human culture. And so for me, the ceiling on a cuisine like that is always going to be higher. I disagree. Yeah, fair enough. Damn, Akash, that got intense.

Hey, you guys. My name is Mike. Josh is making thinking really hot but uh i grew up in chicago but now i have moved to new york and there's this whole like new york chicago pizza binary thing and to be honest with you i'm sick of it i'm sick of hearing about it because when people talk about the pizza in chic, they're talking about deep dish pizza. And it's just a different meal. And like a thin crust pizza. It's not the same thing.

So you can't compare them. It's like comparing like, oh, what do you like better? A lasagna or like chips and salsa. Like it's not the same thing when you stop comparing it. Now, if you want to compare thin crust pizza, thin crust pizza, that's a conversation that we can have. But the other one, I'm it i'm sick of it and it needs to stop but the pod did you say i was hot he said your voice is hot hey so um this person is saying that they're upset that people compare different kinds of pizzas to each other i don't understand specifically chicago deep dish in new york thin crust yeah they're two totally different pizzas they're two totally different things however

most chicagoans that i know would never compare deep dish to thin crust. Most Chicagoans I know don't really claim deep dish like that. Really? I don't know anybody from Chicago. I feel like Chicago, like this like Epicurean foodie, they love, quote, Chicago pub style pizza. Which is thin. It's thin crust, toppings all the way to the crust, cut into squares. Yeah. It's like bad. It's just way to the crust, cut into squares. Yeah.

And it's like bad. It's just like not. Oh, it's bad? In my opinion. It's one of those that people claim and they want to rep because I think they want to be iconoclastic. Like, no, no, this is what real Chicagoans eat. And it's just like a fine pizza. I thought he was going to go with that opinion that regional styles kind of don't exist anymore.

Maybe that's speaking from a very L.A. perspective, though. Yeah, we're kind of spoiled. We have about every single pizza on every single block. I remember going to New York, and I looked up an article like, best pizza in New York, and there was one spot at the time, this was several years ago, that everyone was talking about. It was called Motorino. Okay.

And I went to Motorino, and I was like, I can't wait. New York's the best pizza city, and they got the best pizza in New York. This pizza is about to be the best. And I had it and it was traditional Neapolitan style. Okay. And I was like, it was fine. Most Neapolitan pizzas to me kind of taste the same. They're all just like wet and burnt.

The best pizza is just a dollar slice in New York. Even then, I just, I can, I don't know that I'm tasting the New Yorkness. The best pizza I had in New York was at the Newark airport. Yeah. And I ate like $6 slices and I went to the Newark airport and I was like, this pizza is just better than all that. And I feel like it's the same way with tacos in LA. You take people to your favorite $1.25 taco spot.

Yep. Inflation. And they're like, yeah, it's a fine taco. And you're like, yeah, hell yeah, it is. So I don't know. I feel that can't compare deep dish to thin crust, but even thin crust Chicago to New York, insofar as there are meaningful differences,

New York just wins that. It's good. New Haven style. New Haven wins. I need to go to Chicago and eat a slice of pizza. I'm going to New Haven, man. Hey, Josh, I'm a huge fan of the podcast. I'm from southern Utah, but lived in Ohio for a while.

And I got to say that a cucumber salad, which is just cucumbers, onions, and tomatoes in like a vinaigrette, is by far the worst tasting thing ever. But everyone in Ohio loves it because they've got some, I'm not going to say it, but probably some major issues. Anyway, thank you for listening. Bye. Cucumber, tomato, and onion. Sounds like a salad Shirazi. Sounds like Shirazi.

Sounds like every single salad in the Middle East. Which is, I'm wondering where they're from in Ohio that that was really popular. I'm wondering what this vinaigrette is. I am too. I don't know. I mean, like, so Shirazi is just dressed with olive oil, lemon, salt. I mean, with verjus. Is it with verjus too? A lot of the times, yeah. Oh, interesting. A lot of people don't know. I mean, like, so Shirazi is just dressed with olive oil, lemon, salt. I mean, with verjew. Is it overjew too?

A lot of the times. Oh, interesting. A lot of people don't know that. I didn't know it was verjew. Yeah. Yeah. It's, to me, it's like panchan. It's like, that's one of my favorites.

I make literally a giant thing of like cucumber, tomato, onion. Typically, I'll put like parsley in it. Sometimes if I have like dried mint, sumac, stuff like that that i'll toss it in there um it is the best accompaniment like yeah so many cultures eat it um in in brazil they call it vinaigrette they'll put some raw bell pepper in it but it's the same thing pretty much yeah yeah you are utterly wrong on this this is i wonder what the i have to know what the vinaigrette is i'm curious yeah it's like if it's like straight italian dressing yeah I get it. Yeah, I get it.

I get it. But if it's not, I don't know. They need to put some love in it. Yeah. A cucumber, onion, tomato salad's got to have some love. It's got to have salt. And then it really sings. It's got to be properly salted, properly seasoned.

Yeah, love in food is just salt, though. Yeah. Okay, should we go to some written ones? Let's do it. You can take the first one. All right, speaking of salad, at Abu Milla, when I was a kid, I'd make this quote unquote salad

at Ruby Tuesday. Diced ham, tomatoes, sunflower seeds, croutons, hard boiled eggs, peas, and Parmesan cheese on a cottage cheese base. Whoa, left turn. So, okay,

if we're keeping track, the only green thing is peas and the only vegetables are peas and tomatoes this is mostly deli meats in a bed of cottage cheese with some eggs cottage cheese kind of threw me off everything else i would eat like a salad you ever get a dish though like even like a tomato salad or something in a restaurant but it's served in a kind of like bed of whipped ricotta or something you know yeah but i don't really like that. That's what this is. You don't like that?

Oh, I love that. No. Or like the hummus that has like this, all the stuff in the middle. That's fun. Like the- That's hummus though. What?

That's hummus though. But see, the cottage- What is cottage cheese if not cheese hummus? The texture of cottage cheese is really wrong. If you whip it, add it in, maybe. I, yeah, American cottage cheese is like bad, right? Big curds. Like it's just bad.

Like if you put cottage cheese in a blender, it becomes better. Yeah. And I think more places should start doing that. Whip your cottage cheese. I'm sure they will. I'm sure they will. But this is a wild salad. 10 out of 10 I'd eat.

Random fact 79 says, I love eating Reese's Burgers. So, you know when you start your opinion with so, it's going to go well. So, it's a beef burger with Nutella and peanut butter on regular buns. You're wild, Shalene. Okay. You're wild. No. I don't.

Okay. So, we are just coming off of lunch. Nicole and I ate ourselves silly on delicious barbecue it was fun and so i don't think my my vision isn't tainted by being hungry or anything for some reason this sounds good to me i don't know what it is i know why why i don't know i know i know why i know why the peanut butter burger like that's the thing peanut butter and mayonnaise burger uh it's a goober burger i believe The peanut butter burger, that's a thing. Peanut butter and mayonnaise on a burger. It's a Goober burger, I believe it's called.

Yep. That's established. The Nutella, that's a new twist. I don't even love Nutella like that. I love Nutella. There's something, if you really charred the hell out of that burger, it was a lot of salt, a lot of black pepper. No.

You really charred it. No. You get that chocolate, just like, ooh, the little sweet. You know what would be good in this? What? Sliced, like, hard salami that would work you know what i mean like the hard peppered salami sliced really thin like a few pieces of it little extra salty to cut through yeah and and you and you seared that salami and it turned into little cups that would be good that's a pure a pure Reese's Cup burger. Reese's, I mean, Reese's sandwich. Add some sliced salamity to your Reese's burger next time.

All right, here we go. I have no, I, God, I feel like I've heard of this. Anyways, we got L. Manon. The best casserole is Flying Jacob. Shredded rotisserie chicken, crispy bacon. What? Peanuts, sliced banana. Ha!

And then sauce of whipped cream and Heinz chili sauce. Daniel, can you Google Flying Jacob? What is going on? Okay, Nicole, what do you... Okay, before Daniel looks this up, what do you guess the origins are of Flying Jacob? I looked it up. Like from what culture? Oh, you already looked it up?

Yeah, I'm sorry. What is it? Swedish. It's just... Okay, that makes sense. Why does that make sense? Because the Swedes will, God bless them, they will throw bananas into any savory casserole. Why do you think that is?

And I think it's incredible. Ew. It kind of looks like enchiladas. I vaguely have a hypothesis about why. Why? The Nordic countries, right? You guys. Oh, the Nordic countries.

Iceland, Sweden, Norway. I don't know if Finland identifies as Nordic. They don't share a common language with them. But they are very cold. They're in a winter wonderland. Oh, like they're cold. They're a cold people or they're just cold? No, no.

They're very warm people. Oh, they are. Oh, nice. But they exist in darkness and cold constantly. And so I think they like really fetishized a lot of tropical ingredients and cuisines and cultures in a way. So for instance, we were talking about that

with Memo Torres the other day about what countries quote say they like Mexican food the most. And like Norway was top three, like 87% of people saying they like Mexican food. And I've had people from Sweden make me quote unquote tacos before.

And I've eaten quote unquote curries from people in Sweden. And it's just like canned pineapple and bananas with chicken and curry powder. And it's wild. So I think like they're very far away from tropical climates. So they really want to import certain cultural exchanges. But it takes so long, like any game of telephone, the longer the location, the more things get a little messed up.

And you end up with bananas and shrimp on pizza. And you end up with Flying Jacob casserole. I don't like the name. I couldn't tell you where it comes from. I don't care for the name. Ratisserie chicken, bacon, peanuts. Great. Sliced banana.

I'm kind of in. Banana and bacon's great. Why not banana and chicken? And then whipped cream and Heinz chili sauce. It's a mishmash, and it gives me a headache. I would love to eat it. I would love to eat it. I would love to. I would love to try it.

I just want to know, number one, who named it a flying Jacob? And number two, what Swedish person wants to invite us? It was invented by Ove Jakobsson. Okay. So Jakob, Jacob. Worked in the air freight industry. Okay. Jakobsson worked in the air freight industry.

What is Natty up about? Oh, I get it. So Jakobsson is flying because he works in airfare. Yeah, it's flying Jakob, if we're being honest, not flying Jakobsson. I'm sorry. I repositioned. Nicole's repositioned. I'm very full.

Well, that was pretty good. Anything else you want to talk about? No, are we done? Did we do this podcast? Take it away, Yash. Well, on that note, thank you for listening. We are really full. Podcasting while full is tough

because you can't get as many breathless monologues out. Thank you for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. If you want to hear more from us in the Mythical Kitchen, we've got new episodes every Wednesday.

If you want to be featured on Opinions or Like Casseroles, you can hit us up on Twitter at Mythical Chef or end Hendy's auto with the hashtag OpinionCastro. Josh is rubbing his tummy.

Nice. You're good. Or if you want to leave us a voicemail, give us a ring and leave a quick message. I was laughing between these. At 833-DOGPOD1. That's right. That's 833-DOGPOD1 for the two sexiest podcast voices to answer the phone. And for more Mythical Kitchen, check us out on YouTube where we launch new videos every week.

We'll see you next time.