A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - The Problem With Ghost Kitchens

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Today, Josh and Nicole take a deep dive into the world of Ghost Kitchens and explain their view of the problematic virtual restaurant industry. Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: http://youtube.com/@mythicalkitchen To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this. I love this. We're so good at this. Hey, welcome to our podcast. A hot dog is a sandwich. I'm your host, Josh Scherer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inaidi. And neither of us have seen Ghostbusters. No. I've been meaning to since like 1987. I have a confession to make. What's that? I'm afraid of no ghosts Sorry Did you just learn that was part of the song like 30 seconds ago? No, I knew that from before You knew the song but you've never seen the movie Yeah, it's iconic That's incredible

Today, Nicole, we are talking about the problem with ghost kitchens We're talking about how they are scamming America out of their hard-earned money They really are Okay, well, let's diagnose what the actual scam is Let's talk about, so ghost kitchens, right? Okay. They tend to be established restaurant brands or established restaurants, at least in the past they tended to be,

that would then effectively work out of a larger commissary kitchen. Yes. Right? Yes. And so a larger commissary kitchen could share several restaurant spaces. These are virtual only concepts. So restaurants that only exist on mostly delivery apps now, right? Postmates, Grubhub, Deliveroo.

Why did I go right to Deliveroo? I've never heard of Deliveroo. I've heard of Caviar. I think Deliveroo is like an England thing. I don't know. But anyways. Interesting. So they're operating out of like these larger kitchens

and they may share, you know, 10, 12 spaces in one kitchen. And they sort of slap a label on it that says like, chicken sammies. And then they send it out to people. But it's a very opaque process, and it's something that especially exploded during the pandemic.

Oh, you're correct. Sorry, I was wrong. Oh, yeah. No, drink your tea, Nicole. Drink your tea. Sip that tea, because we're getting into the tea of ghost kitchens right now. Yeah, I know there was this crazy video that Eddie Burback made about, like, yeah, and it was iconic. He's like a the tea of ghost kitchens right now. Yeah. I know there was this crazy video that Eddie Burback made about like... The Eddie Burback video. Yeah, and it was iconic.

He's like a PI kind of. Eddie Burback's like a modern day Hunter S. Thompson out there except he's going to all the Margaritavilles and Rainforest Cafes and then exposing the ghost kitchen scam because he found out something incredible. He went to one of these ghost commissary kitchens

and found 44 different concepts operating out of the same kitchen space that's nuts was that the fish sandwich one or was that like another part of it tell about the fish sandwich part yeah so eddie goes and he like calls i'm not calls he like orders a bunch of sandwiches from these different spots and then they end up being the exact same sandwich down to the onions down to the sauce it's just the same exact thing and so there's actually no there's no thought that goes into the ghost kitchen well no there's an incredible amount of thought that goes into it right so okay i feel like it's just it's just

it's just like it's like trickling down and there's no thought and there's and there's no creativity and it's just pumping stuff out for people to consume it's like goo no it is it's just pumping stuff out for people to consume. It's like goo. No, it is. It's like eating goo. It feels very dystopian in a way, right? It's like Soylent Green. It's like Soylent Green. But now our Soylent Green is like some influencer has a, you know, this is Jimmy's special fish sandwich. It's got mayonnaise on it.

Mr. Beast, right? Mr. Beast, one of his names is Jimmy Donaldson. Yeah, Jimmy's great. Mr. Beast Burger is? Mr. Beast, one of his names is Jimmy Donaldson. Yeah, Jimmy's great. Mr. Beast Burger is, to me, the biggest thing that really kicked off the Ghost Kitchen, I don't know, scandal kind of thing. Yeah. And right now, he is actually being countersued by Virtual Dining Concepts. Mr. Beast sued Virtual Dining Concepts because they exploded from zero Mr. Beast Burger locations to 1,700 Beast Burger locations in a matter of like two years. In the US. In the United States. Which is absolutely crazy. Like

when you were looking at the explosion of restaurants, like I remember Chipotle was one of the fastest in history. Oh, sure. And that was 1,700 locations in a matter of like 20 years. Yeah. You know, you look at Blaze Pizza is another one, similar numbers, but now the fact that we're being forced to rest, we're being forced to reckon with the question of like, what is a restaurant? Yeah. That's, that's very true. It used to be a building. It used to be a building that you would go into that had a kitchen and there were governing bodies that regulated it and you would go, you would sit down and people would serve you food and you would pay for it there. Yes. Right? And then the fact that we're talking about the ghost kitchens feeling very dystopian, so much of my worldview is sort of dominated by the fact that

every era and every generation has gone through cultural panics and freakouts about so many things, right? Yeah, but I wouldn't say this is a panic or a freakout. I'd say it's a— Even just a cultural criticism. It's a critique. We're critiquing it. It's a critique. And things are definitely changing, right? For the first time ever in 2015,

the amount of money that Americans spent on dining out surpassed the amount of money they spent on groceries. Which is just insane to me. But it was a very slim margin, right? But then now, only in the last eight years, we've seen like a 20% increase in that margin. So Americans spend like $92 billion dining out every year compared to $73 billion on groceries, which is crazy.

And a big part of it is the convenience level, right? Yeah, we're in the age of convenience right now. We're in the age of convenience right now, but we kind of have been sliding down there for a while. So one of my favorite works of fiction, we're talking about dystopian cyberpunk fiction. That's okay. Get on board. I'm excited to learn. Tell me about it. Snow Crash by Neil Stevenson. You've talked about

this before. It's one of my favorite books of all time. You love this book. I love this book, but they sort of go through that cultural critique of Americans loving convenience, but through the lens of delivery pizza restaurants. So in this book, not to spoil it, but like the mafia effectively runs all of America

and they run it because they found the most efficient systems at getting anything done were delivery pizza restaurants. Interesting. So the mafia bought all of them. So literally you need like anything done. A pizza delivery driver is going to be the fastest, most efficient. And that's a reference to Domino's 30 minutes or less. Okay. Which a lot of people at the time were like, that's too.

That was nuts. I remember when that happened. It was crazy. But there's also this idea of like, that's too fast for food. You shouldn't be able to get food that fast. Getting food shouldn't be that easy. Americans are lazy. They're not willing to go into a restaurant to get food.

And now we're like literally too lazy to even Google what the restaurant that we're eating at is. That's so true. Yeah, we're just going on an app and just looking up whatever comes up. Have you ever eaten at a ghost kitchen that you're aware of? I'm sure I have. And I think the times that it's probably happened. So anytime I'm on an app and I see something that looks sketchy, you can kind of tell if you're effectively getting catfished.

That's what this is. Yeah. You're on Tinder. Ghost kitchens are catfished. You're on Tinder. You're swiping and the pictures are weirdly pixelated. And you're like, I feel like you screen grabbed this off of Google Images. You know what I mean?

And like the description of the person doesn't quite add up. You're like, that's a catfish. Like stay away from that person. You can tell this on delivery apps now. Yeah, I mean, to the untrained eye, I think it's a little bit difficult though. I agree with that.

Especially because me and you have worked in like food media. 100%. So we can tell whenever a photo is like not from a restaurant almost. You can tell though, yeah. And like I actually used to work with someone who took pictures for Grubhub and Uber Eats and stuff. And she told me that a lot of these concepts, this was when it was just like bubbling under the surface.

Yeah. She's like, I had to take one photo and this one photo, I would do it from 14 different angles. I would go to a bunch of different places. That's the whole thing. And I didn't realize until right now that she was working for ghost kitchens. Oh my God. Yeah. I know, how crazy. That's incredible.

I had a run-in with a ghost kitchen once and I, a run-in. A little paranormal run-in with a ghost kitchen. So one thing you should know about me is that I don't have food delivered to my house ever. Wait, ever, ever? Because kosher? No, no, no, no, no. It's just I don't like the idea of having food delivered to me. I like the idea of takeout. Like going there physically, opening the food, making sure it's everything that I want and whatever and then I take it to my place. Am I a little bit neurotic and crazy because I do that? Yeah.

Did you not think you were neurotic and crazy because i do that yeah yeah did you not think you were neurotic and crazy oh yeah no every we all know that right yeah no that's kind of like part of your personal oh my god shut up that's a huge part for both of us yeah yeah just general neurosis you know what i mean yeah that's like very on brand for you to not do that no way okay so like i go to this place and i and i see it's like behind an existing restaurant. It's just, it's like, do you know what an ADU is? No. Like when someone builds a house and then they have an ADU, it's like a garage that they've converted.

A house behind a house. A house behind, it's a garage that they've converted into a habitable space. Yeah, yeah. So someone took a restaurant on 3rd Street, behind it, built a kitchen inside this little tiny domicile. Oh my god. I go in and then I see that it's like 117 and a half. Because you know how it's like a half building. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like platform nine and three quarters in the Harry Potter. So I go back. It's dark. It's like, it's dark and it's scary. There's no lights. And then I see this bright light of this, of this restaurant, of this one guy operating. And I'm like, do you have my bulgogi bowl ready? Oh my God. And he's like, he's like, give me one minute.

And then literally these tickets just go. Like, I literally felt like I was a platform nine and three quarters it was like it was like crazy and it just goes and then he goes and he makes our food and then i'm like hey is this a ghost kitchen he's like it is and i'm like how many restaurants do you have back there and he's like honestly we have like 12 menus so out of this one space he is responsible for 12 menus. So out of this one space, he is responsible for 12 menus. And they're all in these little like compartments of this little space. Yeah. And also those menus online are so tiny.

Like you have like maybe like four to eight options. Like literally this comes down to like a philosophical question of what is a restaurant? What is the thing? Look at the Cheesecake Factory, right? Oh, what about it?

Cheesecake Factory menu, a hundred, hundreds of items. How many different restaurants restaurants if you just circle different parts of their menu right they have a menu for salads that's a whole salad chain that's a salad restaurant you circle you're so right salad part of a cheesecake factory and suddenly you put that on uber eats as just salads or like i don't know does cheesecake factory do that i don't know cheesecake factory does but a lot of restaurants do. Okay, like, which ones? That's why this is, like, a very philosophical

question. Like, is Uber Eats one giant restaurant, you know, that you're ordering from? You don't want it to be. Right? Nobody wants it to be. I hate it. I was so confused when you said, have you ever had a run-in with a ghost kitchen? Because they did not expect a person to show up. No, no, no.

They didn't. Nobody gets takeout from a ghost kitchen. That is ridiculous. You a person to show no no no they did it nobody gets takeout from a ghost kitchen that is ridiculous I've never heard because I'm thinking about the times I've definitely been you know kind of scammed by a ghost kitchen which is to say I got like a mediocre pizza but it's because I probably ordered at 3 a.m. it was the only thing open and I was like this is a stock photo of a pizza that's going to be bad. And then it was indeed bad. Yeah. But this whole idea of there are these incredibly small menus on like Grubhub and all that. That'll be like just cheesesteaks. It's like three cheesesteaks, you know, and people order from it. Nuts.

And a lot of that is coming from like these very strange brand deals that are being signed. Very strange, yeah. So this is another part of Virtual Dining Concepts, which is the company that is being sued by Mr. Beast. So the reason they're getting sued is Mr. Beast said that they are not holding up their end of the contract in terms of retaining quality, right? Sure, there's no QC.

Why does there have to be QC? There's no QC because not all of these are giant commissary ghost kitchens run by big corporations, right? A lot of them are mom and pop restaurants that have sort of signed up for this. Signed a deal and they're like, whatever, we'll make your burgers for X amount of dollars. And the menu has to be so basic. I mean, the Beast Burger menu, it's like Beast Burger, which is a hamburger. And then there's Carl's style, which is like, ooh, this has, you know, it's like a patty melt, you know? So know, very, very

basic menus that almost any restaurant can just sort of execute. But now off the back of the popularity of the Mr. Beast deal, because that has, I'm sure, made so, so, so much money. And to his credit, there's a whole argument on whether or not Mr. Beast is like altruistic or exploitative. You know, he's healing the blind, but he's making millions of dollars off of it. He wanted to support family-owned restaurants during COVID.

That's why he started this, but he's also profiting a ton from it. And then anytime somebody orders a Mr. Beast burger, they're not ordering from that mom and pop restaurant. So it's just continually diluting, you know, people's demand for mom and pop restaurants. I don't think life is that simple. No way.

Right? Like it's somewhere in between altruism and exploitation. That's where everything lies, that gray area. But there are these other brand deals that are being signed, things that I didn't know about. Nicole, I would like to read from you.

Oh my gosh. I would like to read. I like being read to. This is the Real House Bowls. Oh my God, is it Real Housewives? It is the Real Housewives. Which one? Bravo.

All of them, Nicole. All of them. So this Nicole, all of them I can get a NeNe Bowl? Can I get a NeNe Bowl? It has not launched yet, but it is through Virtual Dining Concepts NeNe Leakes Virtual Dining Concepts and Bravo have teamed up to create the Real House Bowls A virtual restaurant that delivers curated meals For hungry fans to enjoy While catching up with all their favorite

Real Housewives franchises on Bravo Super fans and foodies will adore the chef-c created menu who else is creating menus other than chefs that is a perfect balance of light and decadent much like the real housewives cast the menu features a wide range of offerings ensuring yada yada so it's literally meant to like you're watching and they're gonna start just like coordinating the marketing efforts of if you are watching Real Housewives or searching for any of it, you are going to just get shoved ads for Real House Bowls. And there is going to be nothing different about it other than an actual bowl. And you, the consumer, if we are talking about Ghost Kitchens being a scam, you have the power to not be scammed. the power to not be scammed you should have the wherewithal to say this is just a normal bowl with the 20 markup to continue feeding the bravo real housewives machine you are the one being scammed

and only you have the power to not be we must remain guarded against these marketing forces that we are so incredibly susceptible to nicole unless mythical Kinshin launches a ghost kitchen. I was gonna say. In which case, buy our products. Let me tell you, that was the scariest rant you've ever gone on. Was it? I felt like the world was about to crash. This stuff freaks me out, though, you know? Like, we're

just constantly, we're bombarded with so many more advertisements than we ever have been before. I was literally, as I was pulling up our, like, you know, the menu for Real House Bowls, I got an advertisement for the exact t-shirt that I'm currently wearing. Freaky. Literally. And I was like, I didn't know that I was wearing this t-shirt and was like, it looks a little threadbare. Probably got a new one. Hide your camera. Hide your kids, hide your wife, hide your camera. No, but we're being bombarded with so much more

and we are being told to consume, consume, consume. And our lives have already been dominated by that. And you know, even the business that you and I are in right now is reliant on people consuming. You are watching. You will buy. You will buy.

The ghost is inside the machine. Can I tell you though, I don't think this problem affects rural America as much. Will someone stand up for rural America? Nicole, you grew up in Los Angeles, California. What part? You know what part. If you're listening, you know what part. Everybody knows already.

I talk about it too much anyways. But I think this is, why did we do this to ourselves? What do you mean? I'm just upset that we've created such an insane way to consume food uh do you know what i'm talking yeah no 100 and when i sort of talked about this like personal responsibility if only you can remain guarded against this kind of stuff and teach sort of literacy to not be susceptible to marketing um we are we're all the problem right and these things only exist because

there is demand right the supply is only going to follow the demand now i think we are probably in for a bubble and i think that is the most unique thing like the housing bubble but god do i not know about the housing bubble like oh my god i've never even seen the big short like i've never been in a house my brother tried to like have me like a book about it, and I just got so bored. But what I do know a little bit about is the entertainment industry, and we are now in a very strange point in the entertainment industry where it is no longer the supply meeting the demand. Sure.

And we're seeing this a lot with the strike right now, right? Absolutely, yeah. We're obsessed with this idea of permanent growth and just getting out to as many people as possible, right? Like Netflix just loses billions of dollars. Spotify loses billions of dollars. Hell, Uber is the same way. But it's this new like VC-backed idea that Amazon is the perfect example of this,

is we are going to lose as much money as possible to create the biggest consumer base possible. And then once we have them all hooked on our product, we're going to flip it. Uber is going to kill the entire taxi industry that has had rules and regulations and standards forever. Uber is going to kill that until they're no longer

there and all you can do is flip on your little app to get anywhere in the world, right? This podcast turned dark. It's dark, but no, this is content. The Real Housewives are putting chicken in a bowl. You can eat it. I know, I know. It's dark, but no, no, this is content. Nicole, the Real Housewives are putting chicken in a bowl. And you can eat it. I know, I know. It's just scary to me from someone like,

me and you started in the food world. And, you know, simple start. But now that we're in it, it's insane to see how it's grown. And I don't want it to grow anymore sometimes. I think we're going to see the bubble burst, right? Because this is the same thing that's going to happen, right? There's going to be no demand for the Real House Bulls. God, I hope not.

Who do you want to see have a ghost kitchen other than us? There's somebody that's coming out with one that I'm rooting for, Wiz Khalifa. He's also doing bowls. But it's because bowl, Nicole, is a feature in smoking marijuana. And when you smoke marijuana, you often put it in a bowl. And Wiz Khalifa is famous for his marijuana smoking. He had a song called Reefer Party. You know,

that was a, it was a remix of Grove Street Party. Never heard of either of those songs. It's a party, it's a party, it's a party.

No? Oh my God. I'm not a big Wiz Khalifa fan. Everybody rolling papers, nobody smoking blunts. Come on, it's legal in California. It's a family show.

Wiz Khalifa's a family guy. I want to see more Barbie stuff. I was actually surprised that there wasn't more. Was there Barbie stuff in the ghost kitchens that I missed? I haven't seen one, but imagine a Barbie ghost kitchen. I think it would have been perfect. I mean, that is one thing is that it, one, Barbie, I haven't seen it, but it generally

You haven't seen Barbie yet? It generally sickens me because it's this giant Mattel advertisement that's like masquerading as like feminist praxis. And it's just all very strange to me in the world that we live in. Josh, come on. What do you mean come on? Why are people like. You can't be altruistic so much and you can't be exploitative so much. I'm like not a good person.

I'm just a person. I don't know. I just. Everything's an ad for everything now. Yeah, I know. And it's just like super gross. And it's just like super gross. The reason I think the bubble's going to burst.

What's up? We're seeing like one of the other factors in Ghost Kitchen is that you have these established brands that are just changing their name and their branding. Yeah. To appear to be other things. Like we talked about how Cheesecake Factory could do that. There's restaurants that like are doing that right now. That's so scary. Red Robin was one of the biggest ones that people were criticizing.

They launched a thing called Chicken Sammies where they were like, we serve chicken sandwiches. Okay. People love that. We'll just put those on a separate menu with separate branding. They would physically cut off their labels where it was going to say Red Robin. That's so funny. And just put that on stuff.

So many people have been doing this. And just put that on stuff. So many people have been doing this. Another famous one was Chuck E. Cheese. Oh my God, I remember this. Pasquale's, that's right. Pasquale's Pizza. So ridiculous. And God, Denny's was doing a thing called like Crazy Melts. Yeah, I remember that.

Healthy burgers. I remember that. But some of the numbers, I don't have the numbers for everybody, but some of the numbers coming out of it were like shockingly low. Like Bloomin' Brands, which is Outback Steakhouse, they launched a wings concept and they did $330 of business in two weeks.

Shut up. Because every single restaurant that makes wings probably is doing the same thing, right? And how do you stand out? You don't stand out. It's not about standing out. It's about blending in. standing out it's about blending in I think it's about blending in and I think it's about

hey if somebody wants to order this good luck we're number seven on the page or something you know but that's also like antithetical to what a restaurant used to be right like so Outback Steakhouse

for instance they are now so sort of their brand equity has been watered down so much to the point where they're trying to hide it they're a little chewy they're like we spent years we spent decades building the name of outback steakhouse to be vaunted in the customer base and now we're trying to hide it to

sling wings on the cheap on an app like it's it's really genuinely sad to me keeping up with the times though like i think you don't really have a choice. Oh, no, you don't. Yeah. Well, you do have a choice. But it's like, you do have a choice. It's like, let go or be dragged.

But, like, I don't think a lot of places are actually making money off this. I think they're doing it on speculation. Yeah, it's not about the money. It's about riding, it's about catching the wave. Correct.

Yeah. And I think a lot of people trying to catch these waves are going to crash and burn. You know what I mean? Like for every Mr. Beast Burger out there that has 1,700 locations. And again, it's to no risk of the influencer or whomever is doing this because they're just signing a licensing deal, right? You pay to use our name and then we get whatever profits come.

And so it's like the responsibility is almost being trickled down. Yeah, exactly. Like I said, trickling down. And it's always going to fall on low-wage workers who are actually working in these ghost kitchens who are losing jobs from real restaurants that are being shut down that probably care about their employees a little bit more. And then they end up there. And then you end up eating a soggy fish sandwich that could have come from 15 other different restaurants. My question is, is there any actual, like what's the name of the overarching restaurant again that's responsible for this? VDC, Virtual Dining Concepts.

Virtual Dining Concepts. Do they have like a QC thing where somebody goes and like teaches them, like teaches the mom-pop shops how to make these or do they just print out a recipe book and say, learn this? I'm sure they do have quality control protocols in mind. I sure they have terms of agreement i'm sure they have contracts at all these restaurants fine but when you're spreading so so so thin yeah it's like right i mean that

was the one of the problems with like uber right is you just had no way to control it so sort of decentralized and spread out because it's about numbers numbers numbers uh that you just couldn't control the quality on all this. And you had all these problems. That said, is it like any worse than the cab industry? I don't actually know. I don't work in the cabin industry. Me neither. We work in the food industry.

I think we're trying to understand it by seeing other industries. Because it's just so new to us that we have no idea what this is going to look like. And that's the scary thing about ghost kitchens. Like, what is it going to look like in 10 years? What do idea what this is going to look like. And that's the scary thing about ghost kitchens. Like, what is it going to look like in 10 years? What do you think it is going to look like in 10 years? What do I want to happen or what do I think is going to happen? Real quick, as an exercise, go back to 2013. Do you remember what was Nicole doing?

She's like working at Lush Cosmetics. Was that 10 years ago? 10 years ago, yeah. I was in culinary school. You were in culinary school. I was in culinary school. What was happening in restaurants then that people were like, this is going to be the future? Oh my gosh. What was happening in 2013? It was all the burger joints were like popping up.

Yeah. Oh my God. Like very gastropubby, like fancy umami burger was at the height. Oh, I miss umami burger. Umami burger, plan check, all of these little burger concepts were popping up here and there. Yeah, it was off that. So were people saying, the future isn't in fine dining, it's in creating comfort foods, like a burger that's really good.

And innovating within the confines of a burger, I remember. It was big. But that's kind of like a reframing, right? Because before that, people weren't like, who's going to pay $30 for a burger? And now it's a very normal thing.

Almost every restaurant now has to have a burger on the menu. That's true. Even upper-class dining places. 100%. Thinking about Petit Trois, lovely upscale French bistro from a Michelin-starred chef. Pinot Quai and the Bird. Oh, my God.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have a $40 burger after tax and tip on their menu with foie gras bordelaise. It's so good. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have a $40 burger after tax and tip on their menu with foie gras bordelais. It's so good. Oh, sloppy. In 2013, I remember I would have been like freelancing, writing about restaurants at the time. Yeah, what were you noticing? And there was this sort of almost anxiety.

So this would have been like 2015. Okay. Where we were talking about Los Angeles Magazine's top 10 best new restaurants in LA. And Howlin' Rays had just opened their brick and mortar. Oh, no mortar. And this is before they had like super exploded into having four hour lines, great hot chicken restaurant in Los Angeles by chef Johnny Raison. Fantastic. Um, but they had just opened and before they had four hour lines and I was talking with our head food critic, Patrick Q, who's been on the show, check out his episode where we judge our, our three course fine dining meal. Um, but I was like, we have to put How put Helen Reyes on the list or we're going to look behind the times.

And he straight up goes, it's not a restaurant. And I'm like, how do you mean? He's like, you can't sit down there. He's like, there's four stools, but they're trying to shuffle people out all the time. People are just spilling into the streets, eating their chicken sandwiches. It's not a restaurant. A restaurant is something that has hospitality. It has service. which is it's not a restaurant. A restaurant is something that has hospitality. It has service. How can we judge it?

And then I was like, well, times are changing, right? It's more expensive than ever to open a restaurant. More restaurants are failing than ever. Already been a pretty crap industry anyways. I almost said that. No, 100%. And it's only getting harder. And so I was like, I don't think we can fault great chefs like Johnny Raison who worked for Gordon Ramsay

and Thomas Keller and ran French restaurants in LA to open a concept serving great innovative food in a tiny space that doesn't have these trappings of what you thought a restaurant was, right? Sure. And this is when pop-ups were becoming a thing. And restaurants were just, you know, hey, we're one day a week at this wine bar, but we have our own branding and stuff. This was happening during 2015 times? Food trucks as well, right? It's the explosion of Kogi. Oh my gosh, remember food trucks?

This stuff is all new. I mean, food trucks have been around for forever, but the brand of food trucks was a huge explosion. And that's a paradigm shift. And so looking back then, thinking what's the future in 10 years? Wait, quick aside about Patrick Q after this. Go ahead.

We kind of got in a little row, a little fight, and I'll i'll never forget he goes does wine service mean nothing to you and slams the door and left and that was hilarious but point is 10 years ago we had this like oh restaurants are shifting to being more nomadic to being food trucks pop-ups these tiny holes in the wall yeah they're still serving great food joints it's a joint and then now 10 years later we're in like the dystopian hellscape of what we created by not having that sort of respect for restaurants. Oh.

And now ghost kitchens are just the logical end point. And there's probably another logical end point. So this is our fault. It's our fault. We did it, Nicole. We did this. We did this, you know? Are we just like old? Is this what it is?

Is this us aging? Oh yeah, I'm sorry about all this. This is just two old people complaining that the world is changing around us and we don't understand it. I think that's what this whole podcast is. Yeah, which is totally fine. But no, a lot of this comes, for me at least, from like a genuine love of restaurants and a real care

for the industry and I don't want to see it get diluted. In the same way that, you ever hear Snoop Dogg talk about Spotify? He sure doesn't like it. No, I haven't. Snoop Dogg had this great thing where he was like, when I used to sell albums, CDs, we sold a million records at $9 a pop.

That's $9 million. I know I get 20%. That's, you know, roughly $2 million for me. He's like, now on Spotify, you just put a song up there and it gets 9 billion plays and nobody tells you how much money it's making and they're taking all their cuts off the top and you're only paying $12 for a month of unlimited music

to get every song in the world, Nicole. You got to pay $12 a month? I can listen to Beethoven right now if I want to. You just have to pay like $12 for a single CD. It's so nuts. It's nuts and it's cool that I can listen to anything and I've found so much good music from there that I never would have before.

But we've also diluted the product and how much we care about it. When a restaurant is now just a thumbnail of a logo on an app that you don't care about, that you're ordering when you're sat on the couch because you don't want to leave, right? We've watered down the concept of what a restaurant is and all the hard work of all these people that have created great brands and people that treat their employees well and

give a crap. You know what I mean? I think we've kind of erased a lot of that. And I'm like hoping that this bubble bursts, you know, that we sort of can get back to that. I'm hoping people who are spending more money on restaurants than ever can actually walk into a damn restaurant and eat the bowl of fuzz that was meant to be served and not in, you know, plastic deli containers. I, I yearn for that era.

Mythical kitchen goes. All right, Nicole, did you fall asleep? No, I was looking at drag queens on youtube i love i was looking at willem i don't know who that is that's a problem we've heard what you and i have to say now it's time to find out what other wacky idiots are rattling out there in the universe it's time for a segment we call Opinions are like casseroles She ate that honey I wanted to feel like Julie Andrews Why?

I don't know she's magical. I guess so she's still alive Yeah Good for her man. Hey before we get to your opinions are like casseroles you want to check in on the poll we posted to our Spotify page. If you go to that, you can vote in the polls as well, which would be super cool. But we posted from a couple weeks ago, pho versus ramen to see what the people think, Nicole. And we got up to 694 votes.

Wow, no way. Yeah, yeah. 67% said ramen. 33% said pho. Am I supposed to be dancing during this? Oh, yeah, I'm so sorry. This is the pole dance portion. Nicole, you got to do your pole dance.

Yeah. Oh. Ooh. What? Ah. I'm dancing. I'm also dancing with my mouth. So you can hear it on the audio-only version.

Yeah, shout out to our audio-only listeners. We love you audio only listeners Anyways people prefer Ramen to FUD about a 2 to 1 clip Which is roughly expected right It's expected but not honored I'm just kidding I'm totally kidding I had ramen last night Did you really?

From a ghost kitchen No just go to a ramen place That you like Nicole There's so many like independently owned ramen restaurants that you enjoy. I was happy to go through a ghost kitchen. That money's going to the ghost kitchen. I need you to know that I went to like four different grocery stores after work and I was dying on the inside. And I said, David, get ramen.

And then it was going to be $65. And I said, don't get ramen. So I found a random spot that literally had three reviews. Sat my ass down and had ramen for $20. And I got him an extra one too. What restaurants do you order delivery from the most? I really don't do that much delivery. I don't either because it's so expensive.

I cook at, it's too expensive. And listen, I spend money But spending too much money On food I can't do I grocery shop Yeah no Spending I feel like anytime

I get dinner delivered For Julie and I Just somehow ends up Being like $80 plus Yeah I don't I can't I can't That's like five days

Of groceries We also spend a lot Of money on groceries Because I like cooking Nice things Yeah also I go out To eat a lot But

Yeah but I mean I would much rather do that And then you miss All the service charges. You know what I mean? But there's only like three things I get delivered. It is Dan Modern Chinese. Which is good delivery.

I've had that once. Chinese food is great delivery. Yeah. I get Torange, which is my new favorite Persian spot. By the way, Torange does great work. They're juicy chicken. They do great work.

We get like kebab, Shirazi salad, rice, hummus, Kashki Badam Jun. You know, I have that. And then Thai food from Sri Siam. Oh, great. But they're all things that deliver well. I get my Thai food from Hot Thai. From where? Hot Thai. Hot Thai? It's the best Thai food place because

it's close to our house. Hey, listen. And the best Thai food is the one that's closest to your house. Please don't Google it and find out where I live. I just thought Sri Siam does great work. I think without Srieslam, I don't know if Night Market could have done what they did. Shout out to LA Restaurant References. We see you out there. Let's get to our first opinion. Oh yeah, this is the

opinion part. We should talk about this in the pod. I just wanted to talk to you because I hate delivery food. Most of it's bad. Eddie Burback in that video getting fish sandwiches delivered. If you were getting a fish sandwich delivered, a fried fish sandwich delivered, you're a crazy person. Oh my god. This should be in the podcast.

I know it should have been in the podcast. This is the podcast. Nicole, this is still the podcast. No, it's a different section. And all these places tried to like, oh, we invented a new box to keep your fish sandwich fresh and crispy. No, you didn't. You put holes in a box. You put holes in a box.

Holes in a box, baby. Sugarfish. Sushi. I get sushi delivered. They deliver. You get sushi. That's insane. That's crazy.

I get sushi picked up. I get sushi picked up. Literally the best way to eat sushi is right out of the sushi chef's hands. Do you know who I'm married to? They're putting it in a Corolla and driving it half an hour to you.

Yeah, so what if it's in a Corolla? You gotta probably get some of your Corollas. No, I don't have the Corollas. It's a good car. It was the top-selling model in America for a long time. The car's Japanese. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah, so what if it's in a Corolla? You gotta probably get a Toyota Corolla. No, I don't have a Corolla. The Corolla's a good car. It was the top-selling model in America for a long time. The car's Japanese.

Oh, fair. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah, here we go. Okay. No, now I get it. I only get my schnitzel delivered in Volkswagen.

You want duck a la roche? A Peugeot better pull up. Deep cut. You want Sundubuchigache? A bougeot better pull up. Deep cut. You want sundubuchige? That better be a Hyundai. That better be a Hyundai coming up with a sundubuchige. Hi, this is Luke from Northfield, Minnesota. Absolutely love you guys and your podcast.

Listen to every single episode. And I've called in a couple of times with opinions. Chef Polar in a Volvo. But I'm going to call in for advice. Because now I'm a drag queen kind of probably for nicole just because i've never seen josh wearing makeup i don't know maybe he has a little foundation or something but what is something or things that are good to eat if i have a full face of makeup and i don't want to like smudge myself like something small that

just goes in my mouth and is not intrusive, you know? Cause you know, if I have a bunch of makeup on, I don't want a chili dog or a BLT or something like that. Like, I don't want to do my makeup again. I don't want to mess it up.

You know, if I'm, if I'm drinking something, then, you know, you just have a little straw and have a little something. But if I'm in something, then, you know, you just have a little straw and have a little something. But if I'm in drag for hours, then I need something that I can eat that isn't intrusive to my face. So, yeah, let me know.

Very important. I'm going to keep Drag Queen alive if you let me know. Let me know. Come on. Come on. Let me know. Come on. Okay. alive if you let me know. Let me know. Come on. Let me know.

I've never heard of an opinion that needs to be answered by me before more than this. This is incredible. First of all, I was just watching Drag Race. Literally. Is there a water bottle around? Is there a water bottle you can just throw at me really quick? What are you about to do with that?

I'm going to give you an example of what I do with with drinking you can have a straw yeah but what i do is i literally put everybody makes fun of me about how i drink water i put i i drink water like this what the hell you've been doing that for like the four years that i've known you? Yeah. I don't put my lips in the water. I put, I wrap my lips around the top and I go like this. I feel like I'm watching something I shouldn't be. I drink my water with my lips wrapped around the top because I don't want my lips to get screwed up. Yeah, that's good. That's good. So it's very important. Whenever you're drinking out of a bottle, if you don't have a straw handy, just wrap your lips over it. And then for foods, little foods. Okay. The best thing to do, like do like for example uh get a chicken cutlet and cut it into

little pieces and then eat it individually like this yes and then like things like sushi like little bites are good anything that you can cut into little pieces sandwiches never soup never noodles better not what about soup with a straw? No. Whenever I have a full face of makeup on, like whenever I'm like, I'm trying to think of like when I'm sitting in a chair, getting myself ready and having food on the side, which I don't typically do because I don't eat in my room.

But like whenever I'm getting my makeup done, I normally have like, yeah, like a salad is also really great too. But I like to get chopped salads because they're chopped super fine. And I can use a spoon to shovel it in instead of a fork. Also Shirazi salad is a great one too. I concur. This is the best opinion of all time. And you helped out a drag queen.

I love that. That's great. Yay. Hi, Josh and Nicole. This is Katie from Iowa. I love that. That's great. Yay. Hi, Josh and Nicole. This is Katie from Iowa. My unpopular food opinion is that I have always dunked my salmon in ranch dressing. I know that's a very Midwest opinion and my boyfriend judges me hardcore. My defense is that I am a medical student and I know that salmon is really good for you.

And so I try to make it more palatable because I don't really like the taste of salmon. So I dunk it in something I like. Please don't judge me too hard. I love the pod. Thanks, you guys. I don't understand the medical student defense. I don't understand the medical student defense. Well, because it's full of omega-3s and fatty acids.

How does that defend ranch? Read a book. Is ranch the only way to make it palatable? But no, you shouldn't need a defense. But if you defend ranch? Read a book. Is ranch the only way to make it palatable? But no, you shouldn't need a defense. But if you did, there's a culinary defense.

Okay, what's the culinary defense? People would put tartar sauce on salmon, right? Okay, fair. That's what it was made for. It's just acid, it's mayonnaise, you know,

it's herbs, whatever. What is ranch if not tartar sauce sans cornichon? Nicole, that's what I'm saying. Ranch is just a delightfully flavored aioli with other things in it. It's good. Yeah, it's okay.

I imagine what I would do is I would make a salad and put the salmon on top and then drown it in ranch. Or I could take ranch powder. Why do you have to hide? Why do you have to hide your ranch? You want the ranch on the salmon? I don't know. You have to hide it in a salad? No, you don't have to hide anymore. Nicole, you're safe here. I was saying

ranch powder on the salmon. Cook it with safe here. I was saying, ranch powder on the salmon. Cook it with ranch powder. I'm sure it's really dank. It's probably really dank. It's probably really dank. Dairy and fish. There's nothing wrong with it. I grew up eating creamed herring. That's disgusting. Nicole, my culture is not your costume.

We eat creamed herring. I'm literally wearing a chai necklace. Get out of my face. Hey guys, this is Ray from Southern New Jersey. And I was watching one of your shows and I thought about something, how food can be great when it comes to bringing back memories, especially smells.

Mine is my mother would boil cabbage from my father and I would come home from school and the smell would hit me in the nose and I would absolutely hate it. And to this day, I hate boiled cabbage. Do either of you have food memories that just take you to a negative place? I'm just curious. Keep up what you're doing. Love the show. And God bless, guys.

That's interesting, though. Food smells associated with negative memories. I have really weird ones. I have one that's kind of, it's not a smell, but it's a taste. What's the taste? It's those candies. Those strawberry candies that, like, grandmas have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't like those.

What does that take you back to? I don't know. You have a mean grandma? Huh? You have a mean grandma? I did have a mean grandma. Yeah. She was a teacher. She was actually a first grade teacher for David's parents. She was David's mom's first grade teacher. In Iran. Oh my God.

Yeah. She taught a lot of kids. That's incredible. Yeah, yeah. I had a mean grandma. And every time I see those candies and I see them, I'm like, mean grandma. That's funny. Mine is the smell of fresh basil that I hate.

No, it's really bizarre because when I first started cooking, we lived right next to a Trader Joe's and I was the total latchkey kid, right? My brother was out hanging out with his

high school friends. Dad was working like 14 hour days, stuff like that. And so he would just like give me a 20 and I'd go buy ingredients from Trader Joe's

and they would always sell these giant clamshells of fresh basil and I was like watching Food Network at the time, like green things on food make it fancy.

And so I'd always buy a thing of fresh basil and I'd put it on everything. That fresh basil taste just infected I was like watching Food Network at the time, like green things on food make it fancy. Sure. And so I'd always buy a thing of fresh basil and I put it on everything. That fresh basil taste just infected every single thing that I made. And it was a very strange and lonely time in my life where I was trying to figure out what I meant to be a person. And now when I smell fresh,

gotta be Genovese Italian basil. Thai basil doesn't trigger the memory, but Italian basil does. Okay. I get weirdly sad. Do you use any Genovese basil? almost never I don't like the taste of it now

yeah when you were doing that chicken parm episode you were very sullen you were quite sullen I'm a sullen man men are overly emotional that's why we can never be president I was just talking about how we called it Hillaryary killary literally this morning

what a strange times y'all may you live in interesting times next opinion please hi nicole hi josh this is will i'm from kentucky i'm an assistant manager at a McAllister's Deli. Congrats. And my opinion is that avocado belongs on French dips. Think about it. Avocado needs salt. Everybody knows that you can put soy sauce on avocado, and it's really good. And the au jus on a French dip is essentially just like watered down soy sauce in beef juice. It's delicious. You have to try it. Avocado on your next French

dip. Thank you. Love you guys. This is interesting. I eat a lot of French dip sandwiches. I would say the restaurant that I frequented most in my life is probably Philippe's. I've been there like, it's the one place I can say I've been there more than 10 times. Yeah, yeah. And the thought of asking those lovely ladies in their cute uniforms and their little deli hats, please put avocado on my French dip sandwich. I think they would have a conniption. Oh, yeah. But if I could bring an avocado to the restaurant and eat it outside, it could work.

It could work. I don't like it, but it can work. I think this is a deceptively good opinion. It is. In terms of like what a French dip needs, right? Sure. Because you already have like the meat. Do you get cheese on your French dip?

I do. I generally don't for some reason. I've never been that big of a cheese guy. You get American? Yeah, it's the best one. Is this supposed to be Swiss on a French dip? I was going to say, I also sometimes get Swiss.

If it's lamb dip, I get Swiss. If it's beef dip, I get American. That's so funny. But like when you add avocado to a sandwich, right, it's adding fattiness, it's adding creaminess. And it's kind of like this bland, almost refreshing, fatty, creamy layer that, like you said, takes really well with salt. Yeah. Of course, I always associate avocado with Mexican food. Sure.

So a torta ahogada, which is a Mexican version of a French dip effectively, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a soaked sandwich, but that has spice to it, but you don't inherently need spice for avocado to be good, you know? But I'm wondering if you do need acid, because that's the thing that a French dip is missing. Do you need spice in a French dip? No, but I'm saying, does avocado need acid to set it off? Does it need?

I mean, nothing needs anything, but... Because you're getting like umami from the beef and salt from the au jus. Oh, there's spicy mustard on the side. Not always, though. Philippe, you're talking about one specific restaurant that did invent the French dip allegedly in Los Angeles. I like it. Oh, that mustard is atomic. It's so good.

I really want to try this. The closest equivalent I can sort of think to like avocado in that sort of sandwich deli context is like when there's fat, fresh mozzarella and the fresh mozzarella that's like not very salty. You know what I mean? It kind of adds the same thing as avocado. No, it doesn't.

For me, it doesn't. I always add avocado to my deli sandwiches. Which is weird. Yeah, because you do that to your Uncle Pauly sandwich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do that. But like, that one has a big wedge of fresh mozzarella.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's weird to me. Those are substitute goods to me. Really? No. Mayonnaise is a substitute good for avocado. No. Only if it's avocado spread.

If it's an avocado spread. But if it's whole avocado. You know what happens with an avocado when you mash it? What? It's spreadable. you don't have to mash it you put slices on it it's a different experience it's like saying relish versus pickle it's like relish versus pickles no way why are we fighting avocado why are we fighting hold on hold the phone you mean to tell me that relish and pickles Is the same as sliced avocado and regular avocado I'm saying relish Is to pickles as mashed avocado

Is to sliced avocado No way in heck Of course it is It's just a broken down version of that ingredient That creates a different experience Yes it is but you can't compare the two Because of the texture and the crunch of a pickle And the texture and the crunch of an avocado

Is non-existent It turns into mush in your mouth It turns into mush in your mouth. If it was a ripe avocado that is sliced, there is a bite to it. That would go really well with a French dip. I'm talking to Will from Kentucky. I'm not talking to you anymore. Will, great idea. You want to host a podcast, Will? Will, come on. Fly out to LA. Fly out. Nicole,

you want to work at a deli? You want to be the assistant manager of a deli? You might have to work your way up from dishwasher. I don't want to work at a freaking deli. Why not? Why not? You do good at work for a deli. You do good for Will now. I smell like beef anyways. Do I smell more like beef? Double beef? Okay. And thanks so much for listening to Hot Dog is a Sandwich. If you want to hear more from us, we got new audio-only episodes every Wednesday.

Video comes out on Sunday over on the Mythical Kitchen channel. If you want to be a feature... I'm sorry. I worked up from that little... If you want to be featured on Opinions or Casuals, you can hit us up at 833-DOG-POD-1. Our number again is 833-DOG-POD-1. Yeah, for more Mythical Kitchen, check us out. We got videos.

Every week. We got videos every week. We'll see you next time. Sometimes there's a week where we don't do a video, but that's pretty rare. Very rare. We plan it to give ourselves nice little treats, like a little break. Like sleep. And spending time with our loved ones.

This video. I went to Cabo. Yeah. And that's, I went to South Jersey. Yeah. We didn't talk about the South Jersey man's accent.