A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - What's the Best Cheese for a Burger?

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Today, Josh and Nicole are answering the age old question – what's the ultimate cheese for a burger? Thanks to OURA for sponsoring part of this episode. Discover how Oura can help you better understand your health and sleep. ouraring.com/hotdog Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: http://youtube.com/@mythicalkitchen To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this is mythical. What's the best cheese on a cheeseburger? Notcho cheese! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Got him! Wouldn't that just like sloth off and like be like really like weird and like gummy and stuff? Nicole, it's a joke. You used to be funny. We used to have fun, remember? This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal. So what?

That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome back to our podcast, A Hot Dog is the Sandwich, the show we break down the world's biggest food debates.

I'm your host Joshair. And I'm your host Nicole Inniati. And comedy is legal again, baby. Nacho cheese. Yeah, that's right. Then whose is it? So today we're going to be talking about, today we are going to be talking about

from a professional chef and culinaryians perspective. Which we are both. Which we are both of. I am not a professional chef. I'm not a professional chef either. I know we use the title a lot. I was going to say the B word.

Can I say the B word on the podcast? That's your word. I'm a professional bitch. See, that's great. And I'm a professional lover. Anyways. Oh, got it, got it. We've both been working professionally in food.

We think more about food than almost. I think about food a lot. I think about food a lot. And that qualifies us to talk about what the best cheese is on a burger. However, before we decide what the best cheese is on a burger, I think we need to sort of widen that funnel and talk about whether or not cheese needs to be on a burger at all. Well, let me tell you, cheeseburgers is my favorite food.

Cheeseburgers is your, is that a reference to something? Well, Chicken Nuggets is my family. Can I tell you something? Go ahead. You're lower than you usually are. There's a big smudge on your glasses and your hair is like off center. Can I fix you? Yeah, fix me, fix me.

Can I have your glasses for two seconds? Sure. Okay, hold on Nicole's cleaning my glasses. I can't do anything about the hair, tried a new hair product. Was that the CVS? I didn't have the one that I liked because Brick and Mortar stores are just dead. Dude, it's so sad. I don't want to order a hair product off Amazon, but I got the hair product that I liked at CVS like six years ago, and I've been trying to use that.

And I go in there, and like, 80% of the shelves are empty because stores are dying. And I want to go there. And so now I tried to use a new hair product And it just, it doesn't dry quite right And so now it looks all messed up What else did you complain about With my physical appearance today? Your chair's low

Okay, chair, razor it up Didn't actually do anything But it looked like I did And Nicole's not gonna notice now Let me know if that's better Glasses are clean Let's see, because that big smudges are real Way, way smudgier than it was before now

Nicole, you keep them entertained While I grind this on my t-shirt for a while Tell you why, I wear my glasses In the gym And I sweat all over them And I get the oils for my face on them Naturally I wouldn't work out with glasses on

But in the gym is mostly where I take notes For Last Meals guests Oh Have you ever thought about Please clean your glasses Yes, have I thought about contacts Yes, I have Contacts

You know I'm in negative seven in both eyes And I wear contacts I'm so glad you asked And you're continued Making assumptions Of people's health issues And how you can fix them Without asking any questions

What do contacts have to do with health issues? Why don't you get any contacts? Well, I've tried to get contacts. I have an asymmetrical astigmatism, so it makes it very difficult. You'd have to get custom contacts, which I did have made. But also people with asymmetrical astigmatism sometimes get vertigo with contacts. Oh. And I did on my drive home from the lens crafters, and I thought I was going to get a crash.

So I'd pull over inside that glasses are what I'm going to do. Okay. What happens then is you have a smudge on your glasses, which does not bother you whatsoever. Let's go get LASIC. Maybe we'll do a two-for-one deal for LASIC. I don't know, man. I kind of just, they've created a little device. I can put on my head called glasses

that have become if anything a signature of my brand and visage and getting Lasic hair getting Lasic let's get laser hair removal instead of LASIC

I'll get laser hair removal you get LASIC Everywhere, just zap all the hairs off my body. I already did that I want to be like a dolphin I want to be like Pittsburgh linebacker Ryan Shazier I literally lasered myself

from the chin down got pregnant all came back That's pretty hilarious Harry Bees that you should get your money back You should be able to come with the receipts, which is just your hairy body, and show it to the people of the laser factory. You call this seven sessions. Local YouTuber and podcaster were arrested.

Okay. We need to be serious. We need to be serious. Sorry, I screwed up your losses. I feel like me and you haven't like hung out in a while. So we're just like, we're just having a moment. Cheeseburgers love them, favorite food. I, once the last time we had a cheeseburger without cheese, which we used to call a hamburger.

Or a hamburger style. steak. I literally have not had a hamburger in a long time. I have cheeseburgers maybe like once a week at this point. Nice. Is this mostly in and out or are you getting your cheese from other places? I'm all over the place. I mean, in and out's great. I had, what did I have? I had five guys like three days ago. Okay. It was great. Fantastic. And five guys, dud. They do give you a choice, right? I don't know if they give you a choice, but I'm pretty sure they use Kraft American cheese. They give you choices on so many things. Do you not get a choice of cheese with five guys? I don't think so. I think it's just the good old

fashioned yellow American cheese there. That's my knowledge. They've never offered other cheeses, but they do have things like A1 steak sauce and like mushrooms. Oh, they have all the things that you don't want to add to your burger. Yeah, yeah, I don't need to add all that. You ever go crazy and just feel like, yeah, let's try A1 on my five guys burger. Let's try A1 in mushrooms. Then you're like, oh, I wish I would have gotten a normal style. Not me. Not me. But my loving life partner, David, yeah, he's like, just do it all the way. He gets everything. I've done that before, too, at five guys.

and it just gives you the wettest salad in a bun. And Five Guys' burgers are already so wet, which is what makes them pretty good. Hold on, I'm going into the Five Guys menu right now. I'm pretty sure it's just craft. According to my research, it says Five Guys use Kraft American Cheese. Well, I'm starting my order on the online Five Guys. There's so many different things to click.

I know. It's really crazy. I wonder how often they run out of, like, diced onion and, like, mushroom and jalapeno. No, like there's just, there's so many things to click to get to a menu. I'm so sorry, you're having a hard time. When's the last time you had a burger no cheese? Burger no cheese? I went to In-N-Out the other day, and I decided that getting a hamburger, which is a completely separate menu item at In-N-Out, which I think is very fun.

And I don't miss the cheese sometimes. I got a single hamburger. Okay. With the double-double, I kind of love the way that the cheese melts in between the patties and creates kind of its own thing. Right. But I just got a hamburger without cheese. Just to remember what it was like.

What the meat tastes like? Yeah, pretty much. Well, not even to remember what the meat tastes like, but to remember what it was like to order a burger without cheese. Because I feel like there's no data on this. I've tried to look this up, but I feel like hamburgers without cheese over time have been precipitously dropping. I see that as well.

I feel like every passing year, the popularity of cheeseburgers rises as hamburgers falls, and certainly that wasn't the case because the cheeseburger wasn't invented until God, what was it? It was like, I think like the 1930s it wasn't that. I was told, I always thought it was the 1950s in Pasadena, but maybe that's when it was like codified as a cheeseburger. So it was originally called the aristocratic hamburger at the right

spot in Pasadena. And then the place that I love, pie and burger still makes one of the best cheeseburgers. I've never been. They kind of call themselves like the home of the original cheeseburger because the right spot closed. Uh-huh. So it's like not I guess that new compared to the hamburger. but anyways, I feel like

it used to be a lot more common even when I was like a kid to get like a whopper without cheese to get a famous star without cheese not only that, those are two separate menu items the famous star and the superstar or no, no superstars are double, never mind so it's a famous star with cheese

I lied to your face. But the point is it was like 30 cents extra to add cheese when I was a kid and you're like, I'm not going to do that, there's no point. Yeah, we was poor, we couldn't afford a slice of cheese on it and so I ate so many more like whoppers without cheese

it's a really good sandwich. You don't need the cheese in the wamper. I don't need the cheese. I think it's because it's flame broiled or whatever? I think, yeah, the flavor of the meat. I mean, it kind of just tastes like pure gasoline and beef fat, which I'm not mad about. I love it. I don't love it.

Okay, we're different. It tastes like it has artificial grill flavor sprang all over it. Yes, I don't like that. That's what I love. Chunky, a chunky acrid white onion on it, hot mayonnaise and ketchup. It's a big onion. It's wide. It's wide.

And I love it. And I think the wopper is, better without cheese. Okay, that's fine. I think it's the rise also of like smash burgers, how people are obsessed with like the laciness. And it's just, it's just expected that the cheese will also become lacy. Agreed. So I think, I think it's that marriage of like every burger is now a smash burger and every smash burger has to have cheese on it and everything, everything has to be lazy and crispy. So I think that also has a lot to do with cheeseburgers kind of overstepping the hamburger in terms of popularity. I think almost because the meat is getting less important.

You're so right. So the smash burger, like the best smash burgers are kind of made with fine ground 70-30 commodity beef. And small portions of it, like two-ounce balls. Two-ounce balls. You're smashing down until they just kind of become crispy, fatty, lacy carbon, you know? And then the cheese sort of becomes the start. The cheese is almost what's like rehydrating that meat in a sense. We're painting an ill picture of smash burgers here.

They're delicious. We love smash burgers. I love that. But the era of burgers that we grew up in, an era of burger that I still like, nice thick, six to eight-ounce patty. grilled, seasoned really properly. I like those burgers, too. In a point where if you put a single slice of American cheese on an eight-ounce patty, you don't taste it.

It's gone. It just disappears. It dissipates. It dissipates. I mean, it has a texture. Huge AC Man and the Prestige. It just goes, pff. Still haven't seen it.

You know? What the F? You haven't seen the prestige and the other movie that people think is the prestige. Oh, uh. The Illusionist? The Illusionist. Yeah, I've never seen that one. Never seen either.

I did force Julie to watch, Now You See Me, and Now You See Me Too. Oh, yeah? In a single-day double feature. No, but she... Forcing her to do anything else? Jerk? Yeah, I forced her to eat a lentil because I keep insisting she's not allergic to it.

And did you have an ebipen nearby? No, she doesn't have that kind of allergy. It's not anaphylactic? I didn't force her, but I sort of somewhat allowed her to eat because she looked at it and went as a lentil and I said, yeah, I said I'm going to eat it anyway. So I guess I didn't really... Yeah, but I didn't like stop her.

I don't know if she wanted me to slap the lentil out of her hand. But she said like, oh, I felt sick. but also we were drinking like four days in a row because we were at a wedding, we're at an Indian wedding. You guys are cute. I think we're really cute. You guys are a cute couple.

So anyways. What are we talking about? Thick burgers. Yes. The cheese is not as important, I believe, unless it's a very powerful cheese. I'll say this. If we're using American as our baseline,

as our, what is the constant, I do think it has a textural benefit to it. Instead of like, if you're using like a cheddar or a Swiss or a peasant, or a pepper jack. The fudgy nature of a slice of cheese, a size of American cheese,

is different texturally, maybe not flavorly, but definitely the texture of the cheese helps the burger experience. I agree entirely. So if, do all hamburgers need cheese not according to my own personal beliefs?

But I'd like for them to be... But if we're talking about cheese, yeah. American is the best one. It's a front runner. I think this is probably, a new thing. It's the one we're most familiar with, I'll say. It is, 100%.

I think this is somewhat of a new phenomenon that goes hand in hand with people no longer liking filamignon. Right? So we did this while you were talking about the best cut of steak where... Speak your truth.

The America's answer for what is your favorite cut of steak. For the first time in history, I think it was about 10, 15 years ago, rabbi surpassed filamignon. Fair. Right? Filet mignon was once like the pinnacle of luxury and what everybody aspired to. What do you think steak, you think filet mignon? But Bourdain wrote about this in Medium Raw, which he wrote, I think, around the time

of the financial collapse in 2008. Okay. Where he talked in the rise of foodic culture, where he talks about how now your currency is no longer prestige, your currency is knowledge and expertise. Oh. So as in like chefs no longer relying solely on prestige ingredients, but say a knowledge and expertise of maybe, of technique, of regional cuisines from other places, like David Chang and Momafuku Noodle Bar, right?

Introducing Bao that's cooked with craft and ramen that's cooked with craft, whatever that means, to a mainstream American audience. And I think a lot of that ended up killing this kind of like prestige thing, but almost to the point where now we see any ingredient that is

commodity, we consider it like populist. It's like the music nerds who are like actually Sabrina Carpenter is like really revolutionary and good. Right? It's this idea that almost like you can't criticize anything that is popular in pop culture. Okay.

Because it's de facto nature of popularity kind of makes it. So Sabrina Carpenter is the Kraft American Cheese of Burgers? Bingo. Okay. I love Crafts American Cheese and I love Sabrina Carpenter. Same. She seems wonderful. But I think, you know what I mean?

Like 20 years ago, I don't think people would have said that American cheese is the best cheese for a burger. I think the answer would have been cheddar. I actually had a burger with cheddar. I went to Apple Pan and I got both burgers. steak burger on the Hickory burger and I always add cheese to it and it's cheddar I believe let me tell you it doesn't hit the same no it does not it just it kind of just like lays on the burger and it makes like this oily film it's because there's so much oil content that's not

homogenized the way that like Kraft American is yeah yeah that it just kind of just sat there and and I'm and then you took a bite and like it kind of like like almost like a flat piece of wax paper just like dragged what was it not fully melted I I don't think it was fully melted, but I would expect. I mean, I took it to go. I, like, allowed it to, like, travel, and then I reheated it. Kind of congealed. Yeah. So it was pretty disappointing. But the burger was good, but the cheese was a disappointing part of that burger. Should have just got it with how cheese would have been delicious. Hold that thought, Nicole. It's time for a brand new segment that I'm calling Operation Make Josh Not Feel Like Crap All the Time because he's very tired and would

like to not feel that way. The acronym's not as clean as I want it, but it's pretty true. So here's the thing. I have the best job in the world. It's my literal dream job. I get to sit down and I yap all about food and then I get to eat all of the tastiest food in the world. And it's very tough to complain and I still manage to do it because it really does take a toll on your mental and physical health. Previously, I've been going by the vibes based method, VBM. It's a much cleaner acronym this time. But I frankly found out that vibes aren't enough and I need to actually find something that's trackable and that I can actually improve. And that is why I'm wearing an aura ring. So this aura ring, it can help me track my sleep, stress, and activity levels. Again,

things that I was always just going off vibes. I'd look at my phone right before I go to bed, see what time I fell asleep and roughly estimate when I wake up. But now I'm getting actual data that I can use to try and help improve my sleep, which of course improves recovery and then drops your stress levels. Like last night, I threw a dinner party and I just ate a bunch of really heavy food before I went to sleep, and then I woke up at about three in the morning with the meat sweats because that happens, and ordering is actually able to tell me how that influences my day the next day. So let's check today's results. Let's see what we got. All right, so I woke up with a readiness score of 84, which frankly, not too bad. I did skip

my morning workout today because I wanted to prioritize sleep, and I'm a big fan of not working out if you're not actually rested and recovered. I think it actually might do more harm than good. my sleep score was 78, I'm going to click into that and see what it meant, six hours and 44 minutes, which for me is actually quite a lot of sleep. I tend to average somewhere around 545 to 6. But here's an interesting thing, REM sleep. That's my rapid eye movement. It's only one hour and eight minutes, which is definitely suboptimal, and I think that has to do with me. You know, I had a little bit of drinks, had a bunch of really heavy food. And so going forward, I know that's something that can still do on special occasions, of course, but it's

It's good to have the actual data behind it to know how it is affecting me. So over the next four weeks, I'm going to be checking in with you all on the updates for Operation and make Josh not feel like crap all the time because he's very tired and wants to not feel that way, and I'm going to be giving you some insights into what I'm learning about how I can recover and rest better. Because ORA brings together sleep, stress, activity, and recovery to give you a full picture of your health. So head over to ORARing.com slash hot dog to make wellness a daily practice.

And thanks to ORA for being our sponsor. I would like to be very clear on my own personal American cheese stance here. One, there's craft singles, which are pasteurized processed American cheese food product, and then there's our favorite cheese is like Boershead. Boershead or New School American Cheese. I have a whole entire research talk about New School American Cheese right here. New School American Cheese is really incredible. It is, if you've never had New American Cheese,

I highly recommend you like Amazon it or something because it is so, I love New American Cheese. I think it's, I agree. It's so good. I think it's really great. It's a marvel. It's a science marvel, and it tastes so damn good. I feel like I could taste a difference between the two if you put like Craft American and New American. It's funny because it's a science marvel, but it's really not.

For me, for me it is. Well, sure, no, it's like, it's a novelty, but the reason, so American cheese for people that don't know, everyone's like, it's plastic. Maybe it is. It's not plastic. It's not plastic. Just a little. It's literally, if you think about it, it is just milk melted with cheese that then a chemical has been added to it that, that solidifies it and amulsifies it, which means it binds the water, protein, and fat.

That's right. So it's literally just a brick of milk and cheddar, effectively with sodium citrate, some sort of binding agent, and then you slice that, and why this is important for a burger, you said that the American cheese, like, melds really well with it, agree entirely, because it almost melts into its own sauce, especially within, like... It makes a sauce! Especially within a double cheeseburger. Oh, it makes a sauce.

Right? This is also why I prefer Cooper Sharp, which is another great American product. Some people have told me that it's not American cheese, but I believe it is legally classified as an American cheese. Interesting, okay. Cooper Sharp, in a cheese steak, it melts with the steam of the meat and the onions to create its own sauce. Cheese Whiz is already a sauce.

I think gets too liquidy in a cheesecake. Provalone doesn't melt well enough. That's why you've got to add mayonnaise to a provolent cheesecake. I'm learning so much about cheese sticks. I've never had a cheesecake from these places. I've got to go to Philly. I've got to go to Philly. But I think that's the same thing with American cheese and burgers.

I think it creates some sauce. Yes. My counter to that would be There's so many good burger sauces out there That tastes so good But melted cheese Taste so much better If you could focus more on a burger sauce

With a different cheese And I will proffer one example I know exactly the example you're going to say I don't think you do I think I do I don't think you do You're not going to take my father's office right now No I'm not

I feel like what's happened with our burger cultures It's gotten It's gotten very homogenized Where places are either doing like The kind of like ketchup, mustard, mayo or they're doing the like Thousand Island special sauce. Some sort of pink sauce. It's got some sort of pickles

chopped up in it, whatever, ketchup, mayonnaise. But if you were to use like a super sharp cheddar like a really aged cheddar, doesn't even have to be fancies. Use a tillamook sharp cheddar. What do you mean sharp cheddar doesn't melt? It doesn't melt that great. Yeah, it's not going to melt into a soup like American cheese. I want a soup. But say you had like even a smash burger, two slices of cheddar cheese,

something with a lot of bite to it. And you had a ton of like raw onion. pickles and like in English or Dijon mustard. I'm so hungry. Just like a sharp mustard, something horseradishy with the sharp cheddar, the fatty beef, the raw crunch of the onion. My eyes are closed. I think cheese works better in that scenario. Cheddar cheese worked better than American cheese.

Man, I don't know. I don't know if I feel that way. I don't know. Well, what if we use instead of a sharp cheddar? What if we use something that was a little bit more muted, like a provolone or a Swiss? I don't think a Swiss works in that. I think you want sharp on sharp. Oh, see, I don't know if I agree with you.

I think the nuttiness would add dimension that you're missing from using cheddar. Hmm. With the way they use it. Or let the mustard shine more. Mustard, horse radish, pickles, Swiss. I think you're getting enough of... Sounds like a Rubin, actually. It sounds like a Rubin at that point.

It's not a burger experience at that point. It is a burger experience. It's still about the ground beef. But to me, the ground beef is being seasoned by the cheddar at that point. point. I understand. You know what I mean? So, so you are seeing it as like whenever, is this a double burger in your head? I'm imagining a double burger. Let's say in the smash burger universe here. So you're, so it's because you are conflating like the sauce of American cheese, the saucification of American cheese to the cheesiness of a cheddar burger, a double smashed, right? Do you know what I'm saying?

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So you're using the cheese as a seasoning agent while the American cheese is more of a textual element. Yes. And I think that textual element and the seasoning level of an American cheese, which is more mildly seasoned than a sharp cheddar because, again, it's just cheddar mixed with milk. It's diluted effectively. But it's good dilution. It's good dilution. It's great. But it's proper dilution. A classic double double from in and out or just your local smashburger spot with Thousand Island, put some lettuce, pickles, tomatoes, onions, whatever. That's an incredible flavor combination. I think it's almost because the seasoning level of the Thousand Island, including the sweetness, I think,

matches the seasoning level of the American cheese. Does that make sense? Yes, I understand what you're saying. So my issue with the burger, the aforementioned burger that you were talking about, I don't think that flavor profile is as attractive to the average American.

Oh, that's totally fine. But I'm talking about, like, from our, as we described, we are very smart professional chefs. Let me use it by jacket up. I think we... I think there's a world in which, there are different cheeses on burgers used in very different contexts. Do you like blue cheese on a burger?

Love blue cheese on a burger. I love blue cheese on a burger. Within context. And what I do is I generally mash the blue cheese with mayonnaise and a lot of like cracked pepper, sometimes horseradish. So you make a sauce out of the cheese. You don't just put the cheese. It's more of a paste.

I, okay, okay. More of a paste. But why don't you just get a soft Gorgonzola? I don't like patronizing Italian. I don't like to buy things from Italians That's why I don't get a Gorkinsul Also Gorgonzol is not even that soft of a blue Like a rope for it would be like...

No, if I'm rocking like a heavy stilton And the only reason I have blue cheese in my house Is if I want to make a wedge salad Which is pretty often to be clear But that I always have like a half A thing of blue cheese left over And I did make this recently I made like a, it was like a very like coarse ground steak burger

I got my own meat grinder Oh no way! Okay good Thanks Thomas Harleander for the wedding gift He was like, how do you get into your registry? I don't know the password. And I was like, me neither. Can you just get me a meat grinder? Just gave you cash.

I hope that's okay. It was nice. I would have bought a meat grinder with it. But anyways, like I basically seasoned this burger like a steak. Right. And then I made like quick fried onions not sauteed. Okay. Just kind of like hard on the edges.

Hard on the edges. Put a ton of that on the burger. I think like dressed arugula because I had it. And then I mashed the, I mashed the blue cheese with a little bit of mayonnaise and like spread that on the bun to hold it all together, and it was an incredible burger. So you didn't use it as, so you didn't use it on the burger. You used it as a condiment sauce. Yes.

Yes, you did. Yes, you're right. So, so, I mean, for me, whenever I think of a cheeseburger, the cheese has to somehow be melted onto the meat in order for it to be a cheeseburger. Or else, that whole beautiful thing you were talking about of like them marrying together and like sandwiching together, it's all for not at that point. But if I had the blue cheese on that burger, I wouldn't have wanted an American or a Swiss or a cheddar. You know, like, I want that blue cheese to be the cheese flavor.

But you made the cheese into a sauce. You didn't, you did not use the cheese as cheese in that case. You made a, you made a condiment. You didn't allow the cheese to act like a cheese. Yeah, but I made a condiment. I made a condiment. That was a perfect replacement and substitute good for cheese on burger. You considered what you made to be a cheeseburger?

What? Am I crazy? It was burger and has cheese. But what I'm trying to say is if I'm not saying it, no, it's like say, okay, go ahead. Listen to me. It's like if I took, don't be mad. I'm mad. Don't be mad.

It's like you took, let's just say, I made a delicious thousand island sauce and I shredded a quarter cup of parmesan in there. Is that a cheeseburger now? Of course. I'm so hungry. Of course it's a cheeseburger. It's a burger that has cheese in it. That's a cheeseburger. No, no.

It's like saying. Oh, you may. I understand that it doesn't eat like a fast food burger. But that's like, what is the purpose of a cat? The purpose of a cat is to be cuddly and fluffy and adorable and whatever. And be cute, right, cute, careless cats, disgusting creatures, gargoyles. They're good for people with allergies. They're still cats.

That's what I'm saying. There's still cats despite the fact that they're horrifying and go against almost any reason that you would have a cat to be fluffy and cute. It's still a cat. I'm saying there's still a cat. the same way that that cheesburger is still a cheesburger. You think they're garcoyles? That's so mean. Sphinx cats are so eleganza.

Have you ever seen a video of somebody massaging cocoa oil on their cat? And the cat's just like... Yeah, that is like truly the worst thing I've ever seen. It's like massaging a chicken before you roasted in the oven. See, I like that, but I think that's because that's dead... That's dead-skinned bird flesh. It's like putting compound butter on a chicken. I think the cats already look like they're feathered.

Oh, they're so cute. And ready to be roasted. and I don't like the hairless cats. The point is... I'm so mad at you right now, actually, right now. I can't believe you're saying that if I take cheese and I make a sauce out of the cheese, it's still a cheeseburger. I cannot disagree with you more.

This is really disappointing. What if I mean... You're shockingly disappointing, Josh. It's not the... Josh, shockingly disappointing. Now with 15% more disappointment. What about like a lamb... A place has a lamb.

burger and they all said some sort of harissa aoli and a feta and a cue there's they'll put a satsiki on it even though it's like the worst condiment for a burger yeah i wouldn't eat it but like is that a cheeseburger still there's there's feta on the lamb you're saying that if the feta is on the lamb it needs to make contact with the burger eventually it all makes contact in your mouth no you're not getting it a cheese i know what you're saying but i think it's a weird hill to die on listen when you go to in and out can you get cold cheese on a burger? Yes. Have I done it before? Yes. Was it gross? Yes. Is it still a cheeseburger? Yes. Because it's on the burger. Because it's on the burger. But if

the lettuce... If the cheese was cut up and poured into the... into like a sauce, then no, it's not anymore. Now it's just something weird. But you're saying that like cheese whiz on a burger isn't a cheeseburger? That is a cheese product. Cheese whiz is not like a condiment sauce.

Is it? Is cheese whizz is semi-solid at room ten? It's like 80%. It's like 80% cheese. Yeah, cheese whiz is the next evolution. If you have cheddar here, if you have cheddar on the right, American in the middle, cheese whiz to the left of that, and then just a jug of milk right next to that. Cheese whiz is just diluted American with a ton of extra salt.

It is in way more orange. I don't know. I don't know. There's something within me. If it's like, if it's a cold sauce that's being treated like a condiment and it's not warm and like gooey and soft and marrying with the bird. fat and warmth, then I don't consider it a cheeseburger. But if you are making like a greer bechamel to go, like a mornier sauce, to go over your burger, then that is a cheeseburger.

Because it's like directly hitting the burger and it's meant to be. Cheese based, yes, but if you're making some sort of weird like cold mayonnaise condiment, which I'm sure is delicious, I'm not saying it's not delicious. You're saying like a parmesan heavy Caesar dressing on a burger? That's not a cheeseburger. Does not make it a cheeseburger. But if you put a Parmesan frico on there, it is a cheeseburger. no way man

Parmesan is not a cheese Parmesan doesn't count as cheese What is it umami It's the same thing as like miso It's umami Parmesan is more miso than cheese The difference between The the chasm

If you will Between American cheese and Parmesan Is way smaller than between Parmesan and miso You know what I mean I understand what you're saying But I don't think I don't think

I've ate way too much I've made too many burgers with a damn Parmesan freco crisp chip on it. And you don't consider that a cheeseburger? No, they suck. It just cuts the roof of your mouth. You bite in and goes, ah! Well, just because it sucks doesn't mean that it's not valid.

No, I agree. I think it is. Just because a sphinx cat exists and looks like a rotisserie chicken. Yeah, I guess you're right. I got to stand on my principles. But aside from American, I mean, American is the answer for both of us for that's the best cheese on cheeseburger. But if you could not lock it in, yeah. Let's not lock it in.

What could you also consider? I think I stand by what I said with, context-dependent cheesing on burgers. I am a big fan of using a burger as your own sort of creative canvas. A burger's a canvas and you're the artist. You know, so for instance, like, I grew up going to, you'd go to a

Carl Jr. and they'd have like a mushroom Swiss burger. And I still think like mushrooms work well with Swiss in that regard because they're both kind of mild, earthy and nutty. Right. You know what I mean? So you get a bunch of like hard-cooked mushrooms on a single thin burger patty, just like a

thick wedge, not wedge, a thick slice of Swiss that's perfectly melted on there. It's not your quintessential burger with American cheese in Thousand Island, whatever, but it is like a very fun change of pace burger. But it's not the best. It's not the best. What do you consider? Well, I think

the best cheese might just be, I think, I don't think there's anything better than American cheese on a burger. You know what could compete, but everybody's been too much of a coward. Nah, Gouda kind of sucks on a burger. Gouda weirdly, like smoke Gita. It's too nutty.

I love smoked Gouda. But there needs to be a complimentary accessory of... Smoke Gouda, bacon. Yeah, it needs friends. It needs friends. Sautade onions. It needs friends. It just said it needs friends.

Gouda kind of doesn't work that. It doesn't melt that well, does it? Why do I feel like I've always had bad luck with melting Gouda? I don't know. I've had okay luck. Oh, Monster. It's pretty good. Monster's worst Guda.

Oh, it's creamier. It's creamier. It melts better. I feel like there's a lot of these old man cheeses. I love... You grew up with Monster from your dad. right? Honey? Yes, I did. All our dads went to Arby's

and ate Munster and voted for Ronald Reagan. It's just what they did. My dad didn't vote in the 80s. He was in Iran. He came in 1990. He voted for Bill Clinton. What? Why's that racist? Who was he against? Bill Clinton,

I don't know, Walter Mondale, Dankwell. I don't know what happened. I don't know who my dad voted for. Spirote, Agnew. These are names. Agnew? Okay. But the point is Munster is a dad cheese that I don't actually think brings anything at the table. Dimmer with Havarti. Oh, I love Havarty. What does it bring to you that? Oh, my God. Listen, I consider cheese. Okay, you said Parmesan is closer to miso. Sure. I think cheese's textural component is almost more important than the flavor it brings.

Is this for when it eaten cold or melted or both? Any, any. It's just, it's just, the texture of the cheese is 50% of the experience. I'm sorry, the texture of the cheese is 40% of the experience. I'm sorry, The texture of the cheese is 40% in the experience. The flavor is like 30 and the 10% of temperature. If my math is right. I don't know. I'm not very good at math. I wasn't following that either.

I was just... Basically, the texture is the most important component of cheese in my opinion. Okay. As a cheese connoisseur. I get that. And Havardi and Munster have this beautiful creaminess. And a texture that would work well on a burger. Like, they melt well.

I love it. I don't know that I've ever had a Havardi cheeseburger. Me either, but maybe I should... I would eat it. A fun dill. Like, I love a dild Havardi. Okay. You get a dilled Havardi.

you get some dill pickles on there You make that a pickly ass burger Oh my God That's probably incredible Oh my God, yeah We've never done that I would love a Havardi Dill Smashburger

I want to throw out a cheese A dad cheese that I love Yarlsburg Oh I hate Yardt is the nuddiest Of nutty cheeses I cannot consume Yarlsburg and be serious I would love a Yarlsberg

With bacon Cheeseburger Pretty much just that Yarlsberg Bacon hamburger patty and mayonnaise See how that Try that on for size I mean, what about goat cheese?

What are we doing with goat cheese? I hate it. Goat cheese melts grainy. Oh my God, imagine goat cheese and like beets on a burger? Pickled beets, goat cheese. We just need to start. Come on, we need to start a burger restaurant. What about pimento cheese?

I want to bring that to glory days. Pimento cheese on a burger is fun because it's just mayonnaise and cheese. Is that? Pimento cheese is just mayonnaise blended with cheese. Do people need to know this? In pimento's, of course. But that's the main, that's what the actual texture is. Does that debunk everything I said?

I think so, because you're talking about me making a sauce. To be clear, my blue cheese wasn't like a blue cheese dressing. I literally just mashed it into mayonnaise until it was like a slightly more spreadable paste. But yeah, I think there's a lot of these fresh mozzarella, bad on a burger, doesn't really offer anything. Worst cheese? Pepper Jack. Pepper Jack needs to go to jail. How can that possibly be the worst cheese? We've talked about how much we hate Pepper Jack cheese.

No, I talked about how I think that you should just use Jack and then add peppers in the way that you see fit. But Pepper Jack can't be worse than that. A ball of barata is the worst thing to put on a cheeseburger. That's the worst. A ball of barata. Someone's doing that. Stratticella. Somebody, someone's doing it.

A hole is putting stradicella on a burger and they need to be put down. I think it's tough. I think it's tough to argue against American. I think American is tough to argue against American. But I will say I think it's only tough to argue against American because of how homogenous our cheeseburger culture has become. Okay. I think if we opened ourselves up to more creative.

cheese burger toppings and combos, and I understand that that's not good for scalability in chain restaurants, and that seems to be what's playing right now, people setting up, you know, smash burger food trucks and carts and small operations, and it behooves you to be streamlined like in and out has been. However, I think we need to do more exploring. We need to do more exploring of the relationship between cheese, meat, and accoutrement, and bun. And I want to be that explorer. Havardi burger with pickled herring coming at you. Fall is the perfect season to invest in yourself. And what better way than learning a new language? Whether you're planning a trip, craving a new challenge, or just looking to make the

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Yeah, all right, Nicole, I've heard what you and I have to say? Now it's time to find out what other wacky eddies are rattling out there in the universe. It's time for the little segment we call. Opinions are like casserole. We're going to get to the first opinion, but I need to set up a little bit of a backstory here. Because I got an email with the subject line, Josh, Josh, Josh, exclamation point, which is a great way to get somebody's attention. Especially someone like Josh.

Especially someone whose name is Josh. Don't do it if the person's name is Marissa. but this was from somebody named Kevin Choriko. It simply says, hopefully this makes it through the pile and gets to your eyes and ears. Not the most traditional opinions are like Castro's entry,

but my fingers are crossed. Below is a link to a video, but who clicks on links in strange emails? And I clicked on the link in the strange email. That's right. And we're going to roll that clip for you. If you're on audio only,

we will describe the insanity that ensues. But Kevin Trico, this is a big salute to you. Let's play that clip. Hey Josh and Nicole, sorry I'm out of breath just doing a little pre-workout climb. A big fan of everything you two do, last meals, first meals, struggle meals, cheap meals, every dang thing in the mythical kitchen, and especially the podcast. First opinion, if you're making strawberry shortcake with anything other than a drop biscuit, you're doing it wrong.

If you're using angel food cake, just stop macerating those poor strawberries for nothing. They deserve better and you know it. So I've been a professional skydiver base jumper for about 18 years. I have over 14,000 jumps and I love to cook, but I'm not trained. So I was thinking I teach you to jump, you teach me to cook, and then somewhere in between we go slam out some reps at the gym. This is the metal. every time I die, Glassjaw, whatever. Nicole, same deal if I see you once you're contrally settled into motherhood.

One second to get ready, and I'll give you my final opinion. There is no such word as canoles. It's canoli. And I would say if you use the former, then there is a special place in Italian hell for you. And I'll see you there. Have fun. See down there. We all got to eat.

We all got to eat. Oh, God. What a rock star. Yeah. What a damn rock star. We all got to eat. We all got to die. And I got to fly.

Love you guys. We love you too, Kevin. Kevin's guts to fly. Never stop flying after Kevin Chirico. Our list. Listeners are cool as hell. They're cool as hell, but you got to, if we're ranking them, you got to put Kevin up there. How would he get cooler?

He also seems incredibly nice and jovial and filled with a joie de vivre. That was awesome. That was freaking awesome. We have a lot of things to address. Kevin won, like truly, thank you. That was very, very cool. Absolutely rips. Do I go skydiving with this guy?

I mean, do I have to go? Do I get to go? It's not skydiving. He's base jumping, I believe. Well, so he's base jumping, but he also, I think you would probably start with skydiving not face jumping? I don't know. I don't know how it works. I would be guessing.

But anyways, he's offered. I've got paragliding. Does that count? I don't know. Ask Kevin. I'll mull it over. I will mull over the idea. It would be really cool, though.

Bring Kevin on an episode of cheat meals. We cook his cheat meal. I go skydiving with him. Hit some gym raps. He trains Navy SEALs. That's really cool. Leave some comments if you want to see me skydive. I feel like I could dissociate enough on skydiving because you're so high up.

It's like if you're in front of. front of a crowd of 20 people, you get more nervous than if you're in front of a crowd of 5,000. Sure. Because 5,000 is just too many people to even comprehend. Too much sky? It's too much sky. You're just, you jump out of a plane.

You got Kevin whispering in your ear while you're strapped to it like a koala. I got you. So, yeah, I need to put some more thought into it. I think you should do it. Frankly, I need to convince my wife, Julia. I think you should do it. I think it's good to do. I think you should try.

If I wasn't pregnant, I would do it. I've always wanted to skydive. And I'm going to bring up my statistic of I'm more likely to to die in my commute home than I am. Yeah, man, who cares about that? You know, she loves when I're bringing that up. Who cares about that? You should do it. Um, opinion number one, I agree. Yeah. I, in my own cookbook, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote a recipe for strawberry shortcake. And let me tell you, it's biscuit. It's just a biscuit. Yep. And it's, it's better. It's, it's way better. It's a billion times better. One, a drop biscuit. It's super simple.

Drop biscuits for people that don't know. It's like you make a kind of, generally like a looser biscuit dough, but roughly, roughly using the same technique. It's softer, and it's probably mixed in a bowl instead of, like, laid out for you to, like, and covered in flour to punch out. Yeah, so you don't need to worry about, like, oh, am I mashing the butter too hard and rolling this out? Is it a biscuit gummy gummy? No, it's just like you take a spoon and you go, and you drop the biscuit onto a baking sheet, bake it off, slice it open, cover it in masserated strawberries and, like, lightly whipped cream. That's the best desserts. I agree.

I grew up eating it on Angel Foodcake because-Cake's like the low-fat cake. It was readily available. It was next to the strawberries anyways when you were shopping for strawberries. They had the little divvety one. You remember the divity one? Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one with the divot.

Okay, those are fun, though. I mean, it's what we grew up with. So what else do we know? But yeah, I agree. Biscuit over Angel Food Cake any day. Yeah, and also don't do what my dad did, which is use the low-fat cool whip straight out of the freezer section. It just tastes like shaving cream and splendor. You don't want it.

Yeah. Next opinion. Canolies is not a word. I don't know. I'm going to leave it to the Italian to tell me what to do, and I trust you. And I don't want to go to Italian hell. They probably have, like, what's like a Molokio, right? That's the evil eye. Molokio? I don't know. I would guess that Molokio is a slur in Italian for a group that I don't actually know.

You wear, so you wear something to protect you from the Molokio, which is the evil eye. I also believe in the evil eye. Is it the hand? The chamsa? Yeah, it is. But I believe they have a chili pepper that deterred the Molokio. I might be completely wrong. so sorry. I also don't want to go to Italian hell. It's probably just a bunch of Sabaro.

But how words get naturalized into English in terms of their pronouncing, in terms of their pluralization specifically, is really, really interesting. So in Italian, it'd be one canolo, multiple, multi-canoli, right? But then when you are taking a word, sort of using it fluidly in English, we see this with pierogi, right? Mm-hmm. Where in Polish, it's a single pirog, it's multiple pirogi. But in English, for whatever reason, in America, we call them parogis and a singular parogi.

Pirog. Tamali as well. Tamal. Tamal. Tamal. Is a singular tamal is tamali? I would say an tamal if I'm saying un. But if I'm saying, hey, can I please have a tamale, a tamale, please?

That'd be great. Thank you so much, ma'am. You know, then I would probably say tamale. Okay. But in Spanish, it's tamal, and then plural is tamales. But in English, American English, we tend to say tamale and tamales. So there's just a certain function of how language works. Sure.

Right? Where we, like, still sort of honor the native name of a dish, like a canole. And I just drop all the vowels completely and call it a canole. You really do. That's just a natural function of how language works. and I think you sort of need to take the evolution of language with a grain of salt and understand that this is how language morphs.

I actually recently shot something with Hank Green, check it out when it comes out. It's going to be incredible. But we were talking about pronunciation and language when it comes to foods and like how we take something like spaghetti, and it's a lot, I don't know, it feels like it's been more naturalized into English

than something like Playauda. You know what I mean? Because it's been so popular for hundreds of years. It traveled a lot. The Tla Uda didn't travel as much as spaghetti did. No, it's not, but boy, do I love eating Pliotas. I went to Gala Getsa two days ago. Nice. But what Hank did is he actually had like 15 people who spoke 15 different languages say the word croissant. Oh, cool. Okay. Because I don't know if you know this. In Britain, they say like croissant.

They say quassant. Because they're so close to France and they probably eat more croissant that when they hear an American say croissant. it sounds very silly to them whereas when we hear them say taco, gonna go out for some tacos that was very Australian but whatever it sounds very silly to us it's just a proximity location thing

but Hank was like this seems to be almost a bit of like an American problem where other countries don't seem to think about this type of stuff too much and so we literally had somebody who was speaking Mandarin Chinese Korean say the word croissant and how it gets sort of like naturalized into their language

because people all over the world love to eat croissants and canoles. Sure. So, all that to say, chill out, man. Come on. Just eat the canol. That's all I have to say about that. Thanks again for that cool video. That was a great video. Hey, cuties. Okay. So my opinion casserole today is that the salad that I'm about to describe to you is good. And no one else has ever heard of it. So growing up, my mom used to make this salad and it was romaine lettuce. Okay. Treaded cheddar cheese. Okay. two like thick pineapple slices from the can and the dressing was nanny I don't know if that's a southern thing it sounds like it would be more of a midwestern thing but we live in the south and it really slapped so hard and every time I try to make it like in front of other people I get shamed for it I'm sorry but I still think it's good anyways Nicole congratulations oh my gosh you're so cute and I'll talk you later bye Thanks.

Oh, my God. I found a recipe on Juliussimplysouthern.com for best pineapple cheese mayonnaise salad. Listen, the word salad. Down here in Decatur, Georgia. Sorry, go ahead, Nicole. The word salad, what the heck does that mean? I don't know. It means small salted bits of food coming from the...

Salmogundi, yes. It's not where it comes from. Where does it come from then? It just comes from the word salt. Sal. Salad. It's like a little salted things. Like I was saying, don't let anybody yuck your yump, even us, because my instinct was, ew. And who are we?

I hope this is actually your blog that I'm reading. But the fact that this person seems to remember a thing from their childhood and they were in the South, I would almost guarantee that this came from one dull canned pineapple recipe on the back of one magazine that was popular in one community. sure because that's how recipes used to spread and back then we kind of didn't know what to do with pineapples so you might as well put some cheese, mayonnaise and lettuce on it and like I don't know I wouldn't not eat this sure

I mean I would try it but I don't know if I would love the flavor profile but I'm glad that you love the flavor profile because again don't let nobody yuck your yum not even us no any time a new fruit was introduced to society or a new food in general like some of the first recipes with peanut butter were just like

peanut butter on butter lettuce Because he didn't know what to do with it Yeah, and like I don't know Who's just say peanut butter and butter lettuce is bad You know what I mean? Not me Not me, man

I like it on celery Not me Not me If people would like to make fun of that Banana Rapped in a ham With Hollandays on it I eat the hell out of that

Sounds great Banana Banana and ham Sounds like our other podcast Hamannanas Welcome to Bananas You're in the Hamannas The Banhamnas is good

That's all our time We gotta kill We got it I was having so much fun today. I was having fun too. We got to go. Thank you so much for stopping by a hot dog is a sandwich. We've got new episodes on our audio platforms on Wednesdays and our video platforms,

which you're really going to want to see Kevin Cherico jump off of a giant, some sort of radio tower? What was that? I think it was a radio tower. Check us out on YouTube. We launch every Sunday. If you want to be featured on opinions or like cast rolls, hit us up by 833 Dog Pod 1. I'm sorry about my glasses being smudged and my hair being messed up today. I'm sorry that I couldn't fix your glasses.

No, that's right. I did the thing on your glasses. Hey, if you like seeing videos of Nicole and I, you can go watch all of our other cheeky shenanigans over on our videos on the Mythical Kitchen Channel, which is a really fun time. See you guys next time.