A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - What's the Most American Food? ft. Jamie Loftus

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

In today's episode, Josh and Nicole are joined by comedian, podcaster, and writer, Jamie Loftus to discuss what is arguably the most American food ever? Check out Jamie Loftus' new book, Raw Dog: The Naked Truth About Hot Dogs: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/raw-dog-by-jamie-loftus/ Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: http://youtube.com/@ahotdogisasandwich To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Please rise for our national anthem. Ba-da-ba-da-ba, I'm loving it. This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich.

A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. I'm your host, Josh Ayer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inayati. And today we are joined by comedian and podcaster, Jamie Loftus, who just published her first book, Raw Dog, The Naked Truth About Hot Dogs.

Raw Dog takes readers on a, thank you, Vanna Nicole. Raw Dog takes readers on a journey across the U.S. during the summer of 2021, exploring the origins, cultural significance, and class implications of hot dogs in American society. Raw Dog is filled with plenty of laughs, vivid descriptions of diarrhea, and even the occasional run-in with a meth dealer. Jamie, welcome to the pod. Yeah, welcome, Jamie. That's the best intro to the book I've ever heard. Thank you. I mean, I was totally taken by the book.

Me too. Also, the story in Albuquerque with the meth hotel, they called it the Meth Haunted House. The Meth Haunted House. Not to distract from the hot dogs of the book, but that was just an incredible experience. That was a fun conversation with my editor where she was like, I don't know that this is relevant to hot dogs. And you're like, it stays. It's all relevant to hot dogs. We are in America.

It's relevant to hot dogs. Exactly. Exactly. The Meth Haunted dogs. We are in America. It's relevant to hot dogs. Exactly. Exactly. The Meth Haunted Hotel, I wish everyone well there. Have you followed up? Do you still talk to the front desk person? No. I tried to get my – I tried to get refunded for it.

And then I ended up talking to the same person. I was just like, this isn't going to go anywhere. And I ended up talking to the same person. I was just like, this isn't going to go anywhere. I have to accept that I'm losing $72 today at the Meth Haunted Hotel. But, you know, it was a good – I lived. You lived to tell the tale. And that's important. Yes.

Agreed. Anytime somebody says, I got struck by lightning four times, the immediate reaction is, no, you don't. And now anything that comes out of your mouth is going to be utterly crazy. And it sure was. I think that's a good, like a good gauge of what kind of person you are though. Cause when she said that, I was like, oh wow, that's so unlucky. I don't think it was lightning. She's had such a difficult life. I think she has. And I don't think it's because of the lightning. Anywho, tell me what you learned about hot dogs through this journey.

So we're titling this podcast, What's the Most American Food? You mentioned how hot dogs are deeply American for a variety of reasons. Yes. Do you think that they are the most American food? I think they're pretty American food. I feel like it's really easy to argue that hot dogs are not American at all because they are Greek and Polish mostly. But they're really American because they really insist that they're American even though they're not. That's what it's all about. It's all like a marketing scheme, which is my – the best and worst thing about hot dogs.

They're just like trying to tell you that you're more American for having eaten one when it has sort of nothing to do with anything. when it has sort of nothing to do with anything. And then, well, this is depressing, but like the most American thing about a hot dog is that it's like made unethically with like horrific labor practices and makes you sick. Go hot dogs. I love hot dogs so much. Like you talk a lot about the industrial process

of hot dogification, which I love because I mean, that's something we talk a lot about on the show that it's literally, you know, going back to like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and talking about just taking all the head scraps of animals and organ meats and then now going to the pink slime. Like that spitting in the face of God via industrial technology, that's very American. Yes. You know? Yes.

We're all about that. And I mean, again, as somebody who like frequents 7-Elevens to eat food, myself as well, I completely agree. And I love it because I was raised on this stuff. Right. And that's like something I thought was going to happen when I was researching the book. I was like, I'll be a vegetarian by the end of this. I'll be vegan. Oh, really?

Yeah. I'll be like Mrs. Brooklyn Podcaster. I'll be full vegan by the end. But I'm like like not at all. And now it's just like you're just like burdened with information, but you're not a better person. I think that's also deeply American in a way. I feel that constantly. It's like I know all the bad things, but like I'm a better person.

What am I going to do? I hope other people do. I was not successful. Yeah. Yet. Maybe I will be. What do you think the qualifications are for the most American food? Like, should we try and come up with actual standardized categories here?

Huh? I'm sure we can. Maggie, can you pull up a document so we can keep? Court stenographer Maggie. I want to make this as legit as possible. Yeah. I think an industrialization has to be part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Needs to be touched by has to be part of it, right? Absolutely.

Absolutely. It needs to be touched by a few human hands and a lot of robot hands. We won the war with British intelligence, Russian blood, and American steel. And that's part of it. World War II has to come into play somewhere. I would love for World War II. Okay, fantastic. And it certainly does with a hot dog.

Of course. World War II or the Great Depression in general. That's a very – people love to talk about the Great Depression still. I'm like, there's a new one. Like we can move on. We'll run it back eventually. Yeah. What's the link to the hot dogs and the Great Depression?

They were just cheap and could sell them to people en masse? Yeah. It was kind of a timing thing where they were getting popular anyways and then the Great Depression hit and especially in Chicago and Baltimore they would sort of market the hot dog as like it's two meals in one which in Chicago is kind I think it's a stretch where they're like it's a salad on top of a hot dog so it's

two meals and in Baltimore they're like not messing around because they wrap their hot dog in a slice of fried bologna so you do not need to eat for three days after you have. Wait, how have I never heard of a Baltimore-style hot dog? It's specifically at this Jewish deli in Baltimore called Atman's Deli. And it's been around.

This is our pilgrimage. This is our wailing wall. It's truly amazing. I mean, it has all these like – That was disrespectful. Sorry. You were saying. All these like hallmarks of hot dog places that I love, which is that it's been around for 100 years.

You're like, how is this place still open? It's burned down like three times. And there's like a line around the corner because people just like love it. And there's, you know know people who are like 80 years old that are like I used to come here one and you're like alright alright I just want my bologna hot dog I feel like old people loving it should be part

of this that I feel like we we have you ever been to Cupid's hot dogs in there's probably like five or six around LA yeah we interviewed the she's the daughter of the founders and she was talking about how, her name's Morgan Walsh,

fantastic, great roller skater too. Follow her on Instagram. kick-ass roller skater. She was talking about how during the pandemic they shut down and her parents had died

somewhat recently before that and she didn't know if she wanted to take over the family business, her and her sister. And then she had somebody come in after they had just reopened

in that like initial stint after the first shutdown and there's this 90 year old woman who's just crying with joy eating a hot dog because she's like i used to have this every single week and with my husband who died and i couldn't have my comfort so like i think the comforting of the elderly is like i think that's a bit i think that's kind of a big part of it i don't know how that fits into they like in Japan, they like take care of their elderly and like put them in a house and stuff. We just feed them like that. We give them hot dogs. And that's beautiful.

And now I feel bad for bullying that old lady in Baltimore where I was like, alright. Don't worry. I'm an out-of-towner. I came here to get the gross hot dog in like... But the Atman's hot dog rocks. I love hearing about hot dog succession planning too. I know. It's really exciting. Honestly, love hearing about hot dog succession planning, too. I know.

It's really exciting. Honestly, Wienerschnitzel, there was a whole lot of drama going down with who took over. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but we were like trying to maybe book somebody from Wienerschnitzel for the podcast. And I was like, this seems nasty. There's also – my favorite hot dog succession planning thing is from this Ohio chain called Tony Paco's. And the Paco's were just like duking it out, absolutely like screwing each other over right and left. I love that stuff. It was like actual – it was very low stakes actual succession.

It was great. Someone shredded documents. Oh, my God. Someone sabotaged their cousin. Like it was just over. And then they got bought out by a company. No one in the family owns it anymore. Yep, that's what happened.

Corporate intrigue, Maggie? Corporate intrigue. Oh, yeah. I'll throw it in there. And then, like, in parentheses, sexy question marks? I feel like that's American. That's something that we love. Corporate intrigue is sexy?

No, no, no. Like, a sexy corporate intrigue. Like, if somebody slept with somebody to steal the documents for the, you know, like just in case that comes up. My favorite hot dog place that I ate at growing up, it's in Allentown, Pennsylvania where my family's from. We used to go there like every winter for Christmas and whatnot. It's called

Yaco's and this has a You told me about Yaco's. Do you know who founded, the family that founded Yaco's? No. So it's called Yaco's. Y-O-C-C-O apostrophe S. Okay. It is actually, God, I-A-C-O-C-C-O, Iacocca. And it is Lee Iacocca who was like the CEO of GM during the like race against like Japanese automobile manufacturers.

And he became like an American folk hero for like basically reviving, I believe, Pontiac. I could be getting the stories wrong with the car manufacturers. But he became this like American CEO industrial folk hero for like kind of like beating Japan in that really weird Japanophobic, you know, stage. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. And he just happened to open a chain of hot dog restaurants. A chain? Where they sell pierogies.

Oh, my God. That's so weird and evil. I wasn't even going to say hot dogs as my most American food. But now that we keep coming up with all this, it's really beautiful. I had a joke answer, but I'm like, it really is hot dogs. It is hot dogs. And I feel like off of the corporate intrigue, it's also the folk hero stuff. Because every hot dog business has a folk hero at the center of it for the most part.

It's always named after the business owner. There's always a huge picture. They usually dead sometimes they're not um maybe folk hero folk hero gotta be in it or even with like that costco anecdote that i can't stand yeah yeah where the ceo of costco threatens to kill someone i'll kill you if the hot dog doesn't cost a dollar 50 and everyone every that i feel like that story goes viral every three months. It's like right up there with like Keanu Reeves is nice. And you're like, we knew this. Yeah, Robin Williams would speak to homeless people on set.

The same kind of thing. We like want to believe that somebody is out there fighting for us. Right. You know, and it has to be the CEO of Costco. And you're like, that's very American, thinking that the of costco could be acting in your best interest correct like also i i love costco i hate costco so much i hate costco for the very simple reason everybody i love buying if we if we like waste if we this is i any if you identify as a fan i I love you very much. You're my best friend. Give him a kiss. Give him a kiss. Okay, thank you.

Beautiful parasocial moment. No, but we get a fair amount of comments about food waste. Sure. We waste a single chicken nugget in an episode. And, you know, to me, that's like it's a business thing. We're making content. Sure. If any set is going to have a certain amount of waste in very many regards, that's the business.

40% of all household food just gets chucked in the trash can. That's very true. Costco is out here selling 15-pound bags of spinach. You know what I mean? Like buying in bulk does not actually help you in the long run based on the amount of food waste that it creates. And so I've always had this personal vendetta against Costco that we need to be like buying smaller rather than bigger. For me, it's just a hub for paper towels. I buy like a lot of paper towels. I respect it.

And I buy a lot of microfiber towels and I buy like my toilet papers from Costco. And I just, let me tell you, I go like once or twice a year and I just stack my walls and I never have to think about it again until it's like maybe a year later and I gotta go find it. I'm going to preempt every single comment that we we're gonna get from Costco shoppers who are going, I shop at Costco and I've never wasted food in my life. Who's wasting the 40%? You're lying. Statistically, you are doing it. You.

Anywho. Wow. Now the parasocial tie has been severed. No, I'm so sorry, baby. Come back. I didn't mean it, baby. Come on. One more kiss.

Thank you. It's gotten weird. It's gotten weird. It's gotten weird now. I came into this conversation convinced that the most American food was a Twinkie. Ooh. That's a solid point, though. I was convinced. Number one, same as a hot dog because it's phallic.

Yeah, correct. And like all American, all of the most American foods are phallic. You can write that down. Phallic question mark. It also tastes like chemicals. Yes, it's all chemicals. It's an incredible story. And I just think there's nothing quintessentially more American in my mind as someone who was born in America, but my parents are immigrants.

The Twinkie is the quintessential American food. The way that it's prepackaged, how yellow it is, how when you were a kid and you were looking at the wall of snacks that you could get, your eye immediately went to that yellow ass cake. Something about it. That's not how you spell phallic. Maggie. Oh my God. Maggie. L-L-I-C-K-S-P-H-A-L-L-I-C-K-S.

This is, today's the day we found out Maggie has never seen the word phallic spelled out. Oh, Maggie. I'm sorry. It's not your fault. The public education system in Irvine, California, one of the best in the world, failed you. Way to go. But I really do think something about – I think the Twinkie and the hot dog are kind of neck and neck when it comes to like best American foods or most American foods. Just for the sheer fact that whenever you think about it, it's like people used to tell you that a Twinkie could last in a nuclear holocaust.

I was always told that. I don't know if it's true. And that was a real concern for a lot, especially like my parents' generation. My dad took a blood oath in case the Ruskies ever invaded that he was going to go to the woods and start shooting. No way. That's so funny.

That's probably why they said that, because it just like came out during that era. I don't know anything about Twinkie history. Oh my gosh, you want me to tell you right now? Yeah, give me Twinkie lore. So it was invented in 1930 in Illinois. Oh, Great Depression. Yeah, so Great Depressioninkie Lore. So it was invented in 1930 in Illinois. Oh, Great Depression! So Great Depression food. Initially

it was stuffed with banana cream, but then whenever World War II happened, World War II reference, thank you very much, they ended up filling it with a white filling we know today. And then they had a really interesting way that they would deliver the food. So they would actually make it in a factory and a person would physically go and

drop it off. They never scaled to a massive amount until they went bankrupt and then someone bought them out for 410 million dollars and then they started to when was that that they went bankrupt you know like a rough time period it looks like in 2004 interstate bakeries filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy because of the low carb atkins Atkins in South Beach. No! Diet culture. Throw that in there, too. Ooh, diet culture. But if you just suck the cream out, then it's not bad for you. What?

Wait. It's keto if you just suck the cream out. I don't know what keto means. The cream is keto? No, it's not. But I grew up with so many freaking Orange County moms who would go through the In-N-Out drive-thru, and they'd be like, give me a 3x3 extra cheese animal style. Or not animal style, protein style.

The only bad part for you is the bun. I'm just like, I'm a child and I'm internalizing all of this. The diet culture intersection is important. I'm sure that there was some sort of version of a low-calorie Twinkie at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if someone probably would drop it.

There were definitely plans of the works because this is going through the Olestra era. Probably. You know about the Olestra? No. This is a very American story. Just real quick. This might be a ringer in there. So Olestra was a brand of chips.

They were called Wow! Wow! Exclamation point. I remember. Yeah, Wow! Chips. And they used a brand name chemical called olestra that effectively allowed your body to not digest fat and so it would you would you know eat these

delicious fried potato chips and your body wouldn't recognize the fat as food because i don't know if it was like hydrolyzed with the chlorine molecules something like that um but what goes in must come out yes so if your body's not digesting the fats, it just passes through you. And it was just making people poop their pants. And so it's the ultimate trade-off, right? Like the white noise Don DeLillo thing of what is life if you're not afraid of death. It's like, you know, what are excess calories if you're pooping your pants all the time? It's a monkey's paw wish. And I kind of love that story. But Twinkies definitely would have had that if the public didn't. They kept their recipe until they got bought out in 2004.

And they actually extended the shelf life to instead of be 25 days, it was 36 days. What did they do to it? I don't know. Nicole, what did they do to it? They shoved it with a bunch of malarkey. But I will say, whenever I think of America, I think of a little yellow cake. And their name is Twinkie. It's got that shiny gold.

It's got that like Trumpian color. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. And then you crack it open. You're like, there's like no cream in here, but I love it so much. And something about Hostess cakes are very American too. Just the way that you can't stop eating. And just like gas station culture too.

I feel like gas stations are a thing. Also, if the food looks good with little Mickey Mouse hands, that definitely helps. Twinkies and hot dogs. Often you have the freaky little Mickey Mouse hands. Also, both are just good. Like Twinkies from like

They're easy to eat. Were you going to say they just fit in your mouth real good? Because they're F-A-L-L-I-C-K. Yes, sorry. Yes, they're just easy to eat too, you know? You just shove them in there. Yeah, is portability, does that have anything to do with it? I feel like actually, I mean, that's a very American thing to be able to like eat food on the go.

And that we've like exported to other cultures. I mean, that's one of the fascinating things about hot dogs. Does Twinkies have like international versions of? They never. In my research, it doesn't say that they did. But they did once they got bought out innovate a lot. So they had like the mint chocolate ones. They had mint ones that even invented a cereal.

That's pretty recent. So they were innovating. You have the Twinkie cereal? Have you tried it? It's good? No, it wasn't good. Okay. But I had it and it was important to me.

That and Pandora Flakes. What are Pandora Flakes? I'makes. What are Pandora Flakes? I'm listening. What are Pandora Flakes? It's Frosted Flakes, but Tony the Tiger is Navi. Oh, my God. Cult E to you, madam. Yes.

Sorry. I got really into Avatar when it came out, and I tried to learn Navi for a sec. Are you fluent? No, I'm not fluent. I can't even read the prayers. Were they blue? Were the flakes blue? The flakes were blue.

That's really awesome. I've never seen Avatar 1, 2. Never seen it. Sorry. Even when you see it, it feels like you haven't seen it. Got it. It's like pooping your pants. It's like eating the chip and then it's your decision.

It's in my underwear now. Can't relate. One, I have the strongest digestive, not to brag, one of the strongest digestive systems of anyone I've ever known. Two, Avatar left a massive impression on me. And everyone's like, oh, the story is Ferngully is Pocahontas. Yeah, it's like Harry Potter's Jesus. Like, are you new?

We repeat themes throughout storytelling and history. This is how we connect. Harry Potter is Jesus? Avatar is a well-told story. Shut up. Yeah, like, you know, Aslan. Is Voldemort Satan? Yeah. Shut up. Yeah, like, you know, Aslan. Is Voldemort Satan? Yeah, and then Draco Malfoy is like a...

Who's the goat with the boobies? Baphomet. Baphomet. Draco Malfoy is the goat with the boobies? Correct. I didn't go to enough church. I don't think I stayed long enough to get to the goat with tits. Yeah, I think that's more of like a Levain Satanism thing.

No, you're right. Potato, potato. I dropped out of church in seventh grade. So maybe then you get to the sexy parts. Yeah, there's a lot of sexy parts. Revelation has some fun stuff in it. Speaking of cereal, I was initially going to say chili is my most American food. Oh, interesting.

Because you have the industrialization element to it where canning technology, you know, was in like the early 1900s. First industrial cannery in America was in 1908. But in 1811, it was actually developed for Napoleonic troops, which I just think is a fun little historical fact. Food cannery, you owe a lot of it to Napoleon and Louis Pasteur, I believe. But it was was you know the idea of america what is it where are the borders where were the borders you know what i mean when like there's the phrase in like texas and california like a lot of like mexican-american families have been here for a long time we're like we didn't cross the border the border crossed us

and so that's the most fascinating thing about chile to me is that you see this like transnational migration that wasn't a migration at all because people were just always there eating chili and making it. And so it initially comes from like Chile con carne, right? Which is spelled C-H-I-L-E, the word for a hot pepper in Spanish, actually comes from an indigenous word, Nahuatl. And then in, I think it was like 1898, Americans got their hands on it, a dude named Englehart. And he started making the first manufactured mass-produced chili powder of all time. Cool. Trying to sell it to Americans, even though a lot of the first Americans to go to, say, the Chili Queens of San Antonio in the 1800s.

And you're coming off of like all the, you know, remember the Alamo propaganda that brought a bunch of tourists to Texas. And they're going down there, they're eating the chili con carne from the chili queens of San Antonio. And then so like white people were like, yo, we can jump in on this racket. We'll start mass producing this stuff. And then eventually in the early 1900s, you get Lyman Davis and his dog, what was it?

It was a pet wolf named Kaiser Bill. And he named, speaking of folk heroes though, Lyman Davis' pet wolf Kaiser Bill became Wolf Brand Chili. To make the first mass market of chili. And then that was just sent all around America. And you end up with a big Mexican-American migration to Chicago. You get Chicago-style chili. You get a Macedonian immigrant in Cincinnati

who just sees that people are eating spicy red meat slop. And he goes, we got something similar in Macedonia. I'm going to just call this chili. And then we get Cincinnati skyline chili. You have a chili parlor open, this is my favorite, in Green Bay, Wisconsin in the early 1900s. And this is, of course, it was all staged at the Columbian Exposition in Chicago where everything came from that. So much hot dog stuff happened at the Columbian Exposition in Chicago where everything came from that. So much hot dog stuff happened at the Colombian Exposition in Chicago. That's where the Michael Jackson glove myth came from, right?

Yes, yes. Which is the most BS story of all time. It's so made up, yeah. But a little chili parlor in Green Bay, Wisconsin called Chili John's opened a second location. Where, Nicole? Burbank, California. Burbank, California, baby.

And I ate there once and the owner just made a real racist joke that made no sense. opened a second location. Where, Nicole? Burbank, California. Burbank, California, baby. Wow. And I ate there once, and the owner just made a real racist joke that made no sense, and I tried to order a tamale covered in chili, and he goes, you don't want the tamales today. Something's wrong with them.

And I said, what? And he goes, yeah, one person ordered it, and he said something's wrong with them. I was like, why didn't you just say you were out of tamales? And he's like, I want to be honest. So, anywho. That wasn't the racist joke.

No, the racist joke had something to do with Custer, and I just didn't get it. What? Weird. Yeah, I was like, it's really old-timey. But anywho, so that is why I initially had chili, but now I'm saying cornflakes. Whoa. I mean, I would split the difference and say chili dog, because then you get the history of chili. Because I knew a little bit of that chili history with, how Southern California and Mexican hot dogs are the same thing.

But Southern California is like, no, it's our hot dog. Yeah. Same, same. Relax. But I was going to argue it was it's this really it's what my mom thinks is taco salad, but isn't. Oh, hell yeah. That feels very American to me of like i definitely like my coming from i don't know it's not really american to be coming from a good place i guess but my mom

like genuinely thinks that this thing she makes is taco salad i have to and it's an authentic mexican dish and i'm just like and she was like yeah i i learned the recipe years ago. It's authentic. Oh, man. And it is the most. Jamie, what's in the taco salad, Jamie? What's in the taco salad? The thing is, I love it. I think it's good, but it has nothing to do with anything. Tacos or salad.

So, yes, exactly. Great. So here's what you do. You get a bag of the red Doritos. Okay. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Pause. Hold on bag of the red Doritos. Okay. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Pause. Hold on.

Pause, pause, pause. Okay, hold on. This is called the taco salad. The first ingredient is red bag Doritos. Shut up. Wait, hold on. Are you talking about the nacho cheese flavor? Yes.

Okay, okay, okay. Well, that's not perfect. You open it a little, let the air out, and then you start punching it. American? Yeah, let out your airbag. You get it not down to like a, you know, but make them smaller. Sure. Pour that in the bowl.

Then you're going to want to fry up half a pound of hamburger. More if you're feeling, you know, crazy. Yeah, get the protein, you know. We need more hormones in our diet. A lot. Yeah, a lot of the cheapest hamburger. Trying to get big. Then a full bag of Mexican cheese.

My mom's like, it's authentic. It's Mexican, yeah. And then an entire bottle of Catalina salad dressing. Catalina. It can be served hot or cold. Lo siento, Catalina. It's a little soupy hot. Very, very Mexican.

Yes. Wait, sorry. Run back. I'm sorry. No, I've never been dumbfounded by this, but we have a whole section. We talked about this earlier where people write in their craziest, hottest food takes. And they're always like things that they make when they're hungry, when they're high, when they're desperate, whatever. This is the wildest thing I've ever heard.

It's different when it's in front of you. Yeah. In person, I can see your face. I can see your face and how excited you are about it. And I just want to. I really love it. I can see your face and how excited you are about it and I just want to it's I really love I mean it truly reminds me I was like oh

it was a simpler time when this was delicious oh my gosh is there anything on top that you put like anything no no like tomato

no like what do you want oh you can like salt wait Doritos ground beef Catalina dressing

what am I missing bag of cheese oh the bag of cheese. Bag of cheese. Oh, the bag of cheese. That's Mexican blend cheese, right? Yes. Holy smokes.

Three cheese Mexican. Three cheese Mexican blend. Yeah. Are you familiar with Catalina dressing? Yeah. It's like French, right? It's like red corn syrup. Is it like French dressing? It's French, but minus any of the other things.

There's no creaminess. There's no emulsification. Very salty. It's literally corn syrup with salt and tomato powder in it. It's incredible. And that's something people eat? It's an authentic dish. It's like a salad dressing.

Yeah, but I don't think anyone under the age of 50 has eaten Catalina dressing. No, I grew up with it. And I think, like, I don't know if it's, like, more popular in New England or if my parents are just old or what the deal is, but anytime I have a bottle of it, people are like, oh, I hate this. Then they're like, what is this? And then they're like, I hate this. I made a bowl of it as a way to try to connect with

my boyfriend at the time. I'm like, this is the flavor of my youth. And he's like, I really can't even smell it. I can't be close to this. I disagree with that. Are you guys still together? No. Okay, good.

Good riddance, good riddance. That's the same boyfriend from the book. No, no. That guy, that was a long-term relationship. He could, he could take the taco salad.

Got past the taco salad stage. Especially during, like, lockdown, I was making a lot of the taco salad because I was just like, I need to feel something. Yeah, I get it.

I get it. Yeah. I mean, hot dog sales spiked during the pandemic. That was a big thing, like popcorn and hot dog, which weirdly enough, that was also during the Great Depression. Popcorn and hot dog sales exploded. Wow. And they also exploded during the pandemic. So, I mean, like comfort foods in times of strife.

foods in times of strife. And because like President Trump was like, we refuse to shut down any meat plant or make sure anyone is safe. And everyone's like, so they just kept pumping out the hot dogs. Yeah. So many people got sick, but we don't have to talk about that today. It was really horrible. I love how we started by meeting each other by going, no COVID and raising our hand. Yeah.

We still test. We're responsible. We do. We do still test. Cornflakes were invented by a religious zealot who wanted people to stop masturbating and gave people yogurt enemas. That's pretty big. Mr. Kellogg himself. Mr. Kellogg. And then his brother,

corporate intrigue. One, sexy. He said yogurt enemas. Two, corporate intrigue. There's nothing sexy about a yogurt enema. Sorry. That's what you think. Shut up! I hope you got that. I hope you you don't though maggie cut it for the love of god and then his brother his brother steals the recipe from him and then starts a competing brand which becomes not post general mills general mills i didn't know that and a

patient of dr kellogg's uh he stole the recipe again but tried to form a grain-based coffee equivalent called postum that became Post. So like Kellogg's, Post, and then I think it's General Mills. It could be another one. They all just came from, no, it was Kellogg's brother sued him for the rights to Kellogg.

But so Kellogg's and Post and the brothers stealing the recipe, corporate intrigue. Yeah, it's all tied to like, yeah, like puritanical, like commanding your, but Kellogg also had like a, I mean, he had only bad opinions, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. tied to like, yeah, like puritanical, like commanding your body. Kellogg also had like a, I mean, he had only bad opinions, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was like, oh, the sacredness of a woman's body. Like he had a lot of restricting, like restrictive thoughts on women. In your diva area. I think. So scary. I think what we have to decide now is what the most American food is. And I have a roundup.

It's not a food. It's a meal. It is a bowl of cornflakes. Oh, God. Oh, no. A bowl of cornflakes with whole milk, a chili dog, and a Twinkie for dessert. I thought you were just going to blend it. I thought you were just going to make an orange.

I think those three things together is the most American thing. Oh, but what you got to do is you got to put a flag in it. You got to put a U.S. flag in it. And then sing the national anthem, which, as we all know, is the International Players Anthem by UGK. Nicole made me promise that I wouldn't say that, but I'm freaking it out because it's true. It should be. It should be. I think if we're boiling it down, has your mind changed at all on the most American food?

Have you been swayed? I'm willing to concede chili dog over just an old hot dog because I feel like that takes a lot of other additional pockets. Like colonialism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, yeah, I think chili dog. Twinkie is a great one, though, because it's like Twinkie is an honor. It should just be an honorable mention. It's got a unified mascot, which I like. Yeah, Twinkie the Kid. Someone I can believe in it should just be an honorable mention it's got a unified

mascot which I like yeah Twinkie the Kid someone I can believe in yeah yeah yeah he's got a cowboy hat on yeah yeehaw yeehaw nothing's more American

than yeehaw I just want to shove a hot dog inside a Twinkie have we done that before we can later today we got hot dogs and Twinkies

yeah we do yeah that would work right well it would need to be kind of a narrow hot dog we'll make it happen Hebrew Natty Lights the slim ones the Virginia Slims, the hot dogs.

Those are still my favorite. And Costco CEO, I will kill you if you don't bring back Hebrew National Hot Dogs. That was not a threat against your life. That was a callback. You threatened. I would like to eat the Hebrew National Hot Dogs at Costco as well. the Hebrew National Hot Dogs at Costco as well. All right, Nicole and Jamie.

We've heard what you and I have to say. Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the universe. It's time for a segment we call... Opinions are like casseroles. I'm just letting you cook right now man What the hell is that about? You're the songstress of a generation You got the voice of an angel Thank you so much

All right, you're coagulera You can chill Coagulera That's the best compliment You've ever given me Hey, this is Brian from Michigan Big fan I can't take credit for this

This hack But when I was bartending An old lady came in from Michigan. Big fan. I can't take credit for this hack, but when I was bartending, an old lady came in and ordered a BLT with a side of lettuce. And then she then put the side of lettuce on top of the sandwich when she went to bite it, so it did not hurt the roof of her mouth.

I've shared this with many people over my life and everyone's mind has been blown. Okay. That's smart. been blown. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. That's smart. That's just smart. I feel like this is a good argument for everyone having access to dental care.

Because I have gum disease, and I can't eat bon me. Is this too drastic? It's too damn sharp. I can't eat bon me it's too damn sharp i can't like i can't eat it it makes my mouth bleed i've i see myself in her i feel seen by that anecdote as a fellow member of the soft-teethed community as i have just a bunch of problems and i'll tell you we have good dental insurance i still won't go it's just too much childhood memories of bad things i have great teeth oh yeah way to go all your friends are dentists you have like nine dentist friends yeah all my friends are dentists and i go to one every every now and then so i don't overload one of them and yeah i don't you

i don't have dental insurance from work by the way i need to infiltrate your friend wait you straight up didn't you opted out sorry this is the insular stuff jamie you opted out of our dental insurance because you have so many dentist friends. Yep. It's like $9 a month. Now you don't have to pay it? You know what I can do with those $9 a month? What do you want? Get a bone meal. Paramount.

The flags. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Just don't toast your bread. You don't need to toast your bread. I don't love toasted bread, but it might be because of my teeth issues. I was going to say, I kind of like it when my BLT isn't that toasty. I kind of like it on, like, one side of it is

toasted and the other side is soft. Bread has already been cooked. I like, I like my BLT's not that toasty. You don't need to toast it. But I don't like when a sandwich is too wet. Mmm. That's where you and I differ. You're talking to the wrong guy. I ate, I made a Philly roast pork sandwich at home this weekend and I just. You're talking to the wrong guy. I made a Philly roast pork sandwich at home this weekend,

and I just dipped the pork in the jus and just shoved it in there, wrapped it in foil, let it sit for a while. I wanted to watch a basketball game, and so I'm sitting on the couch, and I put a full-size towel over my lap. You're proud of yourself? Oh, my God. You're proud of yourself? I was like, a plate, it's going to splatter.

A bowl, that's weird. Then I have to clutch my knees, and so I just put a bath towel. Beach towel. Yeah. Look at your life. Look at your choices. A bowl, that's weird. Then I have to clutch my knees and so I just put a bath towel. Beach towel. Yeah. Look at your life. Look at your choices. Yeah, thank you so much. And I just threw it in the wash

immediately afterwards with the rest of my laundry covered in pork juice. I do think the fact that the lettuce is on top is a little bit jarring like at first glance but I can get over it

like the third or fourth time someone does it. It's not the first texture I want in my mouth. There's something a little bit like multiverse about that where if you walk into a bar and there's an old woman eating a blt in the wrong order you're like i've stumbled into a universe i don't that's very true a sentient toaster is the president and

hi josh and nicole so this is a question about coffee which is not food so i have a discord that i'm in and my friends and i were talking one night about uh coffee and they said coffee doesn't hydrate you and i said that's not necessarily true because i mean it does you know maybe dehydrate you in ways but it has water in it because it is water it's made with water and then they started dog piling on me because they think coffee is not water it's coffee um but it's made by using water and making a solution using coffee grounds so like steak is also water coffee water you know is water put through coffee still water or is it something else are there molecules in there this guy's having a meltdown yeah me too though low key am i making a sign anyway i just want the tour bed to end thank you lay off the coffee dude

i think um may i take this really quickly i have a lot of thoughts i have a lot of thoughts as a person who who tries to you know, I exercise regularly. It's good for mental and physical health. And I try and keep myself hydrated, but I also need to consume caffeine or I'll physically get the shakes because this is where I'm at. To me, coffee is neither food nor drink. It's medicine. It's a drug, right? It's a drug.

It's a drug. And the world round has used caffeine as a drug for thousands of years. When you say coffee, there's no one essential thing you're talking about, right? You get a venti blonde roast from Starbucks as 420 milligrams of caffeine. 400 is the daily toxicity level the FDA recommends. Right? So that's insane. But there's also 24 ounces of water.

You get, say, a Vietnamese coffee, right? That's probably going gonna have about 100 milligrams of caffeine but it's gonna be in like a three ounce thing you get a shot of espresso it's maybe an ounce and a half and that's 70 milligrams of caffeine so what you really need to balance is total water amount versus caffeine level because caffeine is a diuretic it bleeds you of water anybody who's drank a venti blonde or some starbucks and just pissed buckets afterwards knows that and so that is physical dehydration. Dark piss.

And I don't know if this is just me, but it smells like coffee coming out. Yeah. That's a real thing. Yes, the devil's piss. The devil's piss. Oh, man. I hate this podcast so much right now. Decaf coffee, for instance, you're right.

It is a majority water, but it's the caffeine in there that's really going to, in bodybuilding, they call it dry you out right and so you worst conversation so if you have a very weakly brewed cup of coffee there is a good chance that it can hydrate you however standard american drip coffee which is a caffeine bomb that people from any other part of the world are just absolutely disgusted by yeah as they should be uh-huh um americans the most'm sorry, coffee is the most American food. But if you think of like drinking an Americano, right, which is a shot of espresso plus a certain amount of water, you're correct in that sense that you are just taking a shot of espresso and then hydrating yourself with 12 ounces of water. But the strength of that brew and the caffeine level, including the roast on the beans, the darker roast has less caffeine.

So it's going to dehydrate you less. Too many confounding variables. But, God, stop tormenting him. Whoa. Discord does that, man. The hell is Discord? I can't tell if it's Discord or the gallon of coffee he drank before calling. I can only empathize.

I wish him the best. Yeah, Five Guys is the worst burger chain in America guys yeah um all of their food is extremely bland and i don't like it um majority of my family is obsessed with it and they have since cast me out of the house uh therefore i'm living under a cardboard box but i will continue to live off of mcdonald's burgers for the rest of my life before i ever eat another five guys burger thanks you gotta respect the man of principle i love the way this i love that voice i really like that accent the vibe of that voicemail was that at once he hung up he threw it i was like i'm done um i agree i don't like five guys i think it costs too much money and the food is wet

oh well that's the only part about five guys that i do love because i keep a beach towel in the car and then i can dry it towel i've never enjoyed a five guys burger but maybe i'm ordering it wrong you don't need to put that on yourself well it can just be their fault i feel like they're i've seen a lot of viral tiktoks about the cheeseburger grilled cheese being good yeah they famously don't salt their burger patties, like straight up. That's what it is? It's like how Olive Garden doesn't salt pasta water. That's why it's that.

I don't know. I don't know why. Like Olive Garden doesn't salt their pasta water because they said it would, quote, corrode the pans earlier and they're working on slim margins. All the labor lawsuits too. Those are eaten up,

what could have been used for salt budget. But no, I've never loved. Five Guys, I think, does a few things really well. It's cooked really, really fresh. They give me free peanuts and I love peanuts. Yeah, there's peanuts there. The fries are cooked fresh, even though I don't think they're good. It's the same thing as In-N-Out.

They're always hot. They're always hot. They're never good. They're plentiful. But it is very, very wet, which I love because they wrap it in foil. So there's literally no, right? What other burger chain wraps in foil? None that I know of.

It's normally in the little diaphanous paper. Yeah, the paper that's going to let moisture out, right? Give you some diaphanous. Thanks. Especially someone who's been watching Carnival Road, just watching Cara Delevingne's wings slap around for the last two weeks. Pots on the back. Some diaphanous.

Anywho, yeah, not a big Five Guys person. I used to, that was like a big option for like high school dates um when i was in school and it was um yeah you could go to five guys and that because there was like a good sitting area you could eat a wet burger with someone you like or if you could if someone really liked you you could maybe talk them into driving you the half hour to Wahlburgers. No way. Wahlburgers! Where the food is also overpriced and not very good. But interesting. But you get to be in the

aura of Donnie? All of them. All of them. They're all involved. All five guys. The real five guys is Wahlburgers. All of them have a little bit of money in it. I don't watch the show. Sorry. little bit of money in it. I don't watch the show. Sorry.

An enchilada is a burrito. Can you play that again? She just escaped. She laughed. An enchilada is a burrito. That's a giggle. I thought she was getting murdered. I thought it was a found footage. They went like this. I thought it was like.... I thought it was a found footage. They went like this. I thought it was like, no, no, no.

And then they covered their mouth to like compose themselves. And then they said their opinion. I know because I understand that kind of reaction. And human emotion. I understand human emotion. I thought it could have been also her waking up in the middle of the night. I don't think

so. I gotta call the hotline. What'd you say? An enchilada's a sandwich? An enchilada's a burrito. Okay, sure. It's baked in a dish. That's the only difference. It's not, actually. Traditional enchiladas are not...

Can I mansplain enchiladas at you real quick? Let me do it. Traditional enchiladas are most often not baked in a dish. It is literally the tortillas are fried, put in the chili, put in the chili sauce, and then they're rolled up. You know why I don't like enchiladas? Too wet. Dude, eat wet foods. They're good.

You're just going to get past the very – How are we talking about chili dogs all day if you don't love wet foods? I like – I know, but if there's good bun infrastructure and a chili dog, then you can really handle it. I want the bun infrastructure to be stressed, though, like the Dykes in Amsterdam. That feels weird to say. Do you know what we never talked about? Hamburgers. What's wrong with us?

The Dykes in Amsterdam is fine. Don't worry about it. Why do you feel so messed up? I don us? The Dykes in Amsterdam is fine. Don't worry about it. Why do you feel so messed up? I don't know. Dykes in Amsterdam is fine. The vibe shifted. Yeah, God. Why do we talk about

hamburgers at all during the pod? Oh, it's kind of like slightly less American than hot dogs. Oh, okay. Whatever. Sorry.

Sorry. An enchilada is a burrito. I agree. Good job. It's traditionally made with corn tortillas and you can't make a corn tortilla burrito and I kind of disagree with that okay well no maybe you can't with like i'm thinking about american betty crocker as enchiladas okay i'm sorry that's where my mind is the

flour tortillas don't taste right they simply don't taste right it's got to be corn i will in weird nickel we are we can have irreconcilable differences it'll get settled in divorce terms with me it makes me sad we're not even married there's no such thing as a happy marriage ending in divorce we're not married you can

fine we're staying together for Jamie stop stop it reminds me of things I have to go home and eat four pounds of my mom's taco salad god

last one taking shots of Catalina Jessing let's do one more let's do one more my. Taking shots of Catalina Jessing. Let's do one more. Let's do one more. My throat burns thinking about Catalina Jessing. Hey, Josh and Nicole,

this is Andre from San Jose. I don't know if this is the Mandela effect, but remember how they would have those crap singles

commercials and they would show things that you could put them on? And one of them, I remember, was a chicken drumstick on a grill. I don't know if I'm crazy,

but I remember seeing that as a kid and I did it. And it's one of the most amazing things in the world. And I keep doing that until today. So I just wanted to hear your thoughts on that. I do. I feel like the Mandela effect has to have a certain mass appeal to it. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Everyone thought this. A single serving Mandela effect. I definitely, I would believe it. Same. I haven't tried it. We would definitely put Kraft singles on things. People put Kraft singles on hot dogs or under hot dogs.

Oh, you're guilty. I would put Kraft singles on just about anything. So this makes a lot of sense to me I grew up just eating you take like this is the only time we ever ate fresh vegetables was like broccoli that was freshly steamed no salt or nothing and you just put it on the table and then put a

single Kraft American single in there and it would drape over the steam would just cause it you watch it was like a time lapse of a flower blooming you know and just lovingly caress it. Melting Kraft Singles is like one of the more sensual foods. Up there with over-easy

eggs. Yes. Where you're just like, hmm, there's a certain something going on here. If you pair the two together, you've got to stay home. Oh my god. Too sexy. Too sexy. The wiggliness of a poached egg with the soft yolk. Good Lord.

We talked about how that's the sexiest egg. This sounds very Korean. It sounds very Korean to me. Putting cheese on. Is that tracking for anybody else? Pressing on the drumstick? Yeah. Is it a baked drumstick?

Did you say grilled? Is it on the grill? Yeah. I mean, like, it makes sense in, like, Korean barbecue when you have, like, a little container of cheese and you can put it on, like, the meat. But, like, no. I feel like Korea and Japan right now are, like, pioneering new ways to add cheese to things. Right? In the way that, like, that's, you know, cheese foam tea was sort of, like, you know, exported back here.

You go to a lot of Korean barbecue spots now and they'll just bring you a thing of melted cheese and, like, wrap it around the chicken for you. Korean corn dogs are half sausage, half cheese. I love those so much. Great case in point. They shift mid-dog. Yeah, it's thrilling. When you find it, you're like, oh, it's all gone now.

New experience. They're also sprinkled in sugar typically, right? Yeah, it's potato. So it's the corn dog and then it's potato and then it's sugar. And it's not like typical granulated sugar. It's like a little bit bigger than typical. Like a sanding sugar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most American food isn't American at all. It's Korean. It's the Korean corn dog. Fine. We did it. We did it. We found it.

And the part that doesn't even have to do with the first part of the podcast. One thing you talk, we're supposed to wrap, but like I'm fascinated by the fact that it's we don't have any indigenous roots in our food systems that like sort of still ended up as americana right like there's very little in mexico yeah all over you talk about like you know uh corn tortillas have been around for like 10 000 years which is incredible um but corn dogs, corn bread, corn staple crop of the Americas. Sure, sure.

You know, rooted in like, you know, the history of enslaved people cooking in the South. You know, still a big soul food thing. Sure. Batter a hot dog in it, sell it at Muscle Beach to a bunch of greased up gorillas. You know, I mean, that's pretty American. It is.

That's my final stand. That's my final stand that's my final stand uh jamie's jamie so much thinking to be podcast for now exact yes book very very book have right very good book big book all done hot dog book all done all done all done bye bye i i know that exact emotion being done it's just like get the hell out of here um seriously thank you so much for being on the podcast everybody check out raw dog wherever books are sold probably i just said that it sounded right wherever but get it from your local bookstore that's friendly that's right bezos don't need more money nope gotta shine that head up more see y'all next time or do we have like a more outro thing to do

we have three intros and seven outros. What do you say? And thank you for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We got new audio only episodes every Wednesday and the video version over on Friday.

And if you want to be featured on Opinions Are Like Casseroles, you can hit us up on our hotline. 833-DOG-POD1. Okay, you don't have to do that anymore. No, that entices people.

I will say it actually does the exact opposite. I don't think so. Agree to disagree. Are we done?