A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 102: Ghosts of Geonosis (Rebels 49 - 50)

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

It has been nearly 5 months since we last visited the crew of the Ghost, but finally, we are back. Today, we return to Geonosis... which is.... uhhhhh.... mysteriously empty? Shouldn't there be like... millions of giant bugs here? Instead, it looks like there's only one... itty bitty Geonosian and maybe the most cartoonishly wicked version of Saw Gerrera that we've seen yet. Oh well. At least Sabine gets to do some cool jetpack tricks. Support the show by going to Patreon.com/civilized! Next Time: Rebels 51-53 (Warhead, Trials of the Dark Saber, & Legacy of Mandalore) Show Notes Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Ricardo Contreras (@a_cado_appears) Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)    

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Star Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zackney, joined by Ali Akampura and Austin Walker today. Before we get on with the show, and as you might have noticed, Natalie isn't here today. We did want to advise people that there's a little more uncertainty of our schedule because of obviously what is happening with the wildfires in Southern California. The bottom line right now is that we don't know what impact they will have on us because we don't know the full extent of the impact they're going to have on Natalie and her family and loved ones in the area.

These wildfires have been devastating, unpredictable. They have destroyed or endangered places in L.A. that you never would have expected to be under threat. This is one of those sort of new reality moments for a lot of us and a very scary one. There are, of course, tons of people who need money and help right now and will probably need it just as acutely and maybe more acutely months from now as they are attempting to resettle or rebuild in the wake of this. There are a lot of worthy places to support, but if you didn't know where to start, there are a few decent options for putting money directly in the hands of people affected by this. It's got a cumbersome URL, so it's actually easier just to search this one. GoFundMe's 2025 Wildfire Relief Fund, collects donations.

and distributes them as cash grants to people in need. In a similar vein, give directly.org slash L.A.fires, raises money and attempts to target lower income people and communities for direct cash distribution, which might reach a broader swath of people than some other fundraising methods do. Finally, as we are a show covering film and television,

because a lot of the most working class people in the entertainment industry have been affected by this, we might suggest a donation to the end. entertainment community fund. That is a resource we have pointed people to before, and it's a resource that people in the business have used for years and one that works very, very well. It's one of the main ways that people in the industry got relief during the strikes last year, and it will be helpful in the coming months as well, especially, I believe, because

they were funding so many people who were sort of furloughed due to the, due to the strikes and on strike, that fund got a little bit depleted. So they are definitely looking for to sort of recapitalize that so that it is available for members who've been affected by these, by these fires. You can give to the entertainment community fund at entertainment community.org and we will have links in the show notes. Obviously, that is not an exhaustive list, but it is, there's three places to start if you're looking at the sheer scope of people who need help in all this and are sort of wondering where to begin. And for ourselves, we are as always supported by you, our listeners via patreon.com slash civilized. So head over there if you'd like to support the show and get access to all our Q&A episodes. Plus, I think we will be doing Skeleton Crew later this month.

That is the plan. So stay tuned for that. But this week, we are back to rebels after a long hiatus. And again, who knows what's got by the schedule? We'll be back for Ghost of Genosis and then back to, I don't know, let's figure out what we're going to do. I heard there was a Star Wars Christmas special at one point There was Yeah I would love to do that

I guess it's worth say like you know a little two two parter So not so bad to miss Natalie on this one But it would suck if Natalie like was up in the air For the rest of season three or something So I think we'll probably end up Figuring out how to fill the time If Natalie can't rejoin us quickly But again a little two partner here

Yeah a little two parter There's no big deal Nothing doesn't big happen in the world of Star Wars Right we don't learn anything terrible about an entire culture of people, right? What their state in the world is anymore? Well, so it's kind of like imagine if Lockheed Martin was a race of bug people.

Okay, well, okay. And then, yeah, sort of extrapolate from there. So, yeah, this one, pretty straightforward to summarize. So Phoenix Squadron is sent to figure out what happened to a team, the rebels sent, to genosis to figure out what is going on there and to explain some weird like sensor readings they were getting off the planet but that team disappeared

who was whose team was it anybody we know it was saw guerreras I can't fucking believe this is where we cut off from a year ago or whatever we were doing rebels last that is pretty yeah no what a place to leave off when did we last leave all frivols no it was last it was just last okay we we did come back to it in between we came back to it briefly and then we were back on figuring out some other stuff to do

the timothy zon series right right right but we did come back for yes okay we the last thing that it says we did here was the win kathu job which was sorry the win the kathur job and inside man in visions and voices right yes okay we did come back okay yeah because we meant we meant Rebels Thrawn after the strike, right? You're right. We met Rebels Throne after the strike after Cotor. Yes. Okay.

And we saw how Thron was going to deal with some labor unrest. Sure did. Not a friend of the worker, our grandadmiral, Thron. That is for sure. So, yeah, so the Phoenix Squadron goes to G&Oces to figure out what's going on. What happened to that missing team of rebels? And as they, as a group of them had heads underground, Canaan, Rex, and Ezra, they are ambushed by battle droids. And then they are rescued by Saw Guerrera, the only survivor of his, of his team.

And they are being menaced, hunted, followed by a scaled little, a scaled little geon ocean. Just a little guy. he's very frightened he's skittish he's a little bit ET he's a little Pixar he is he is he is he is he's very he's very terrified of what these what these rebels are doing down here meanwhile Sabine and Zeb go and find out what a what some of the censor readings are and they find a big shield generator and a power reading for it and they also encounter a whole bunch of Droidekas that they have to deal with. They managed to capture a little Geneocean

who he has only one piece of information he can share with them. Circle inside a circle, drawn in the dust. What could it mean? I immediately thought of one particular thing. We know that Gio notions were involved in designing. No, no, that's not what he was trying to tell us. Don't worry about that.

There's a great many of things that it could have represented. It turns out through many things that are circle and circle. Meanwhile, Saw Guerrera just wants to beat the shit out of this guy. Real angry. One could argue been angry since his sister

bought it during the war and has not processed that at all. And also is really angry about his team getting got by battle droids, which having seen battle droids now for these many seasons of television, that does feel like a skill issue, I regret to say.

he's not a Jedi who you know he's not and those guys weren't clones it's true this is not the this is not the varsity no he's making do of star wars combat teams but anyway he's he's he's telling everybody like let me at that gene ocean I'm gonna ask act a real unstable if you don't let me at that gene ocean and Ezra okay you know what we get to that we get to it when it is Ezra can talk to the Geocean. He's like, he has things to tell us. Meanwhile, an Imperial Patrol shows up. It's on the hunt for Phoenix Squad.

It's on the hunt for the ghost. The Geocean leads them deeper and deeper in the, in the, you know, in the holes and the sort of abandoned hive city of the Geneocians. And they discover chemical weapons that the Empire used to kill all the geon oceans. And if they get these big pots full of chemical weapons out to the Senate, that'll just blow the whole lid off the empire. If they can just get these pots to the Senate. If we can just publish the chemical weapon report, we'll go get Palpatine this time. The truth will come out. But regrettably, as they are flying, trying to sort of fly out the big central shaft of the city, the Imperial Star Destroyer is overhead firing down on them.

They blow it up with the two biggest missiles we've seen in the history of the show. Just do this. This works. Yeah, they just ripped that thing in half with two shots. And then, unfortunately, the shockwave and the debris knocks the pot, the empty pots of chemical weapons off the ship. And everyone's like, well, now we can't possibly bring this evidence to the Senate. And the Senate would have fixed this one who could have done that. And the meantime, at some point in all this,

Saul realizes, hey, little bug man, you and I are not so different after all. We both care about family, and we both lost things in this war. And debatably, I would say, Hera wraps up by telling Ezra, you know, Saw can be problematic.

But at the end of the day, he's a rebel. Uh-huh. Also, somewhere in there, Rex basically says the Geo Notions have a good work ethic. So, real problematic uncle episodes. I do want to start somewhere because I felt like, and I feel like maybe we've talked about this and I've forgotten it. What is Sawgarear's first appearance in Star Wars? So I really dug through this.

Like, I'm so glad you asked, Allie. First appearance is October 2012, Clone Wars, a war on. two fronts. But that's not what he's designed for originally. So that's the beginning, that's the Anderan arc. But that's like when we meet him. When we meet him. That's where he's from. What year is that episode? 2012. Now, yeah, yeah, way before Rogue One. Rogue one is December 2016. This episode is January 7th, 2017, three weeks after Rogue One. So the contemporary viewer would have just seen Forrest Whitaker as Saw in Rogue One. And then this is like a follow-up counterpunch, you know, or, you know, whatever, like combo, right?

So, big weird timeline there. An important detail. Who do you think invented Saul Guerrera? Because this is the thing we have not, I think, talked about. Saul Guerrera is a George character. Whoa. Saul comes from George's plans for a TV show that he never made, for the Star Wars TV show that never got made.

Underworld, I want to say it's called. Is that right? Yeah, Underworld. Remember, like, four years ago? Yeah. Like 10 minutes of test footage came out. It was like an underground, like, croissant type vibe about crime and stuff in the underworld. And Saul was originally devised for that.

And then in Clone Wars, George brought him back and because he fit neatly into this story, they wanted to tell about Anderan and about local resistance against. the, you know, separatists and all that. So, and then they invented Stela, the sister for that, but like Saw was, was an older George character idea, which I had not known, which is really fascinating. But yeah, so the timeline, Alley, is 2017 people meet Saw on that Anderon arc, then four years later, give or take, in December of 2016, they see him as Forrest. They see Forrest Whitaker play him in Rogue One. They see how he goes out like that. And then, And then, you know, three weeks later, he's here.

Okay. And Forrest Rikr is playing him here, obviously. But Forrest Rikr was not play him in 2012. He was, like, a completely other guy. You might remember he, like, looked thin and not explicitly black. He had dark skin, but he was not like a black guy the way he is here, for instance, right? Rare case of a character's skin getting darker. And also his eyes changing color.

His eyes changed color three times, effectively, from blue to green here, bright green here, to Forrest Riddaker's brown eyes in the films, which, of course, lots of fans are like canon inconsistency. And I don't know. I think if you have a character like Saul Guerrero, who when he's young and idealistic, has bright blue eyes, and then you meet him in rebels, he has like, he's like green eyes, and eventually they get to be a dimmer green, and eventually they're brown. That's Star Wars doing Star Wars stuff, personally, you know, but, you know.

Wait, so these are technically, like, Rogue One Tie-in episodes? I think that that's fair to say. That movie is in theaters while this is out. Wow. And the Death Star stuff that we've been talking around a little bit is obviously tied to that, right? In the Rebels Recon, someone asks Pablo or I think maybe just Andy, the host, asks Pablo. So wait, the Geootians built the Death Star, designed the Death Star. It used to be in the orbit of Geonosis.

At the end of Revenge of the Sith, we see the like skeleton of it or the plans of it being like in the Geonotius. Geonosis orbit. It's not there anymore. Where did it go? What happened? And the answer Pablo gives is that they were able to design the whole thing, except for the super gun, except for the mega laser. That's what they need Jin Erso's dad, Galen, to do. That's why Krennick goes and recruits Galen Erso at the beginning of Rogue One is to make the super laser on the Death Star. The genosis is really what if just big orb? Bro, I... Big orm with a dish? I kind of think

I think they were like We got a good gun We got to put a big gun on it Pablo said that they They couldn't figure out How to get enough power to it And so that's when they go To Galen Erso

And that's when they probably moved it And tried to genocide The Gnoscens I can only imagine When Palpatine hears that Like Gaylan Ursa is like So we're going to use Kyber I know

Fuck I should have thought of that Right? Like what are we talking about? I miss that Kiber yeah it's very funny especially because by the time of or he has to play he's super dumb he's like super dumb about it where he's like what is

keimer oh it used to power the Jedi's light sabers you say oh like a great dragon pearl and then gale's like no no no a lot of people think there's other types of crystals that it's only khyber very funny yeah so that's the that's the timeline on this

and then again Wittaker would again play him in Jedi Fallen Order because he's in like the Hoth level of no he's in the Kishik is it Kishik it's an interesting it's an interesting portrayal of him because he's like there fighting the fight yeah

and then he pieces out before the bill comes due for like the wukies who would defend the planet with him right So that's the thing happens, right. See, I think one of the more interesting beats in that, where it's like, this is one of the reasons people might not like, saw. Isn't just the fact he's an extremist. He's sort of the quintessential, like, rebel cell leader who draws a huge fight toward a community.

And then it's like, well, I've got to go to ground somewhere else. Goodbye. The other thing there that's fascinating, though, to me is this is the first time I really sat and thought about the timeline on him. And this is true for the wookies, too, because we know that the wookies were being persecuted by the, or like, attacked by the separatists and then presumably the empire very quickly thereafter started enslaving them and doing all that shit. But Saul's been fighting for 20 years at the point that we see him here, or longer. Like, he grew up on Anderan fighting in a rebel cell on Anderan against the occupation of the separatists. He voiced his concern at the time, you may recall, of the rebel. or that the republic could just become new occupiers, which happens because they become the

empire. And he's been doing rebel shit since then, basically. And I think that brings a lot of the depiction and or into sharper focus, where when he's listing all those other groups, you know, sectorists and the partisan front and all of that, one way to think about it's like here are all the other active groups that have been fighting the empire like in the last year. The other way to read that is like, here are all these fucking, you know, groups that have come and gone. Here are all these people who said big things and they have different beliefs than me.

And they tried it. And guess who's still standing? Saul Guerrera. And you can imagine that being part of his slow drive towards where he's eventually using space aliens to, you know, brain juice people in Rogue One. He definitely has an arc And I think that that arc is incomplete If you don't think about it as like Oh yeah, it's 20 years of arc

We just happen to jump in At right before it starts in Clone Wars Or at the very beginning of it in Clone Wars And then mostly in the final like Three years of it In Andor here and Jedi Fallen Order You know Actually I don't know where

I guess Fallen Order is actually Towards the beginning of that Fallen Order is only like five years after Clone Wars So yeah Interesting We haven't had a character in a while that we've been able to say has this sort of, like, historical experience. Like, who's the, like, is it Rex in this team who's sort of been in the second longest, you could say? I think it's Rex, probably, right?

In terms of, like, has been fighting the whole time. Because, like, Hara grew up in it. And Kainan, obviously, was a paddle on when the stuff happened. But, like, Saul was leading a rebel cell at 16 or whatever. Right. And that was even before, yeah, before the Republic even shut up. Yeah. Yeah.

So they've all been part to some extent of the same conflict, but from completely different perspectives. Like for Hera and her father, it begins as like this, like, nationalist, indigenous resistance against sort of the techno-colonialism of the separatists. Techno, because it was the techno union explicitly. Yeah. So it was that guy. And they showed up where, like, they sent their steampunkiest guy.

to get things set up there. And then, like, for Rex, he's a soldier in the old Republic army that was sort of created for the purpose of this war. And then, yeah, you've got, you've got Saw, who is, I guess in a weird way also, it feels like he's the one who might have seen the most dynamism happen, the most changes happen with the war, because the war comes to Anderon.

Right. Whereas, like, Harris' earliest memories are of just, like, fighting a resistance war on Ryloth, but Saw and his sister sort of see the war begin. I described a position that Saw held. That's Cham. Cham is the one. Chamson Doolet is the one who's like, the Republic might just come and occupy us just like the Iran.

But Saw does have, Saw goes on a rant during the Anderon arc. And I do think it's something, maybe it's something similar. In a similar vein, because isn't either one who goes on the night raid to like liberate? the old king or something. Yeah, remember, that's the whole thing is they want their old king back because there's the new fake king who's been put there by Duku, basically.

Yeah. The super tactical droid. It's been so long since we watched those episodes. I think probably an easy mistake to make. Yeah. But in any case, yeah, some overlap. I mean, that's one of the interesting things about this is who has overlaps? You know, there's a moment when Canaan is like,

can't blame him for wanting to kill the damn G Inotion, you know, and you're like, okay, Cated. And he immediately backpedals when he sees him. The Gio notions built that gunship. I mean, right. No way a gunship would have been there without that Gionotian know-how. Oh, well. And then, but also there is, saw at one point is like, we lost the last war.

I'm not going to lose this one. Because of the Jedi. Oh, yeah. He's playing the Jedi. He says we lost the last war because of you. But like, and they did lose the last war. But not, that's not what the public believes. That's not what the world believes.

He's maybe one of, you know, a very small handful of people who conceptualizes that war as being lost by the empire, aka the Republic. Right? Most people see that as a war that we won. The Republic wins and then it becomes the empire. They unmasked to the treachery of the Jedi. Right. Right. Exactly.

It's really weird. Because he was against the separatists in that war. The separatists lost that war. But he and Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda and Baylorgana understand that they lost that war, you know? It's weird. It's interesting. I'm not mad at it. It's just like that's not even the way Canaan talks about that war.

What's-what Saw's perspective on the, oh, the Jedi suddenly attacked us, and that's why we all have to kill them now? It certainly seems like his position is the Jedi. just didn't go hard enough. So he knows that's a bullshit story put out with the empire. Yes. But the thing I think he holds against them is they didn't see it coming and they didn't like, they did not do what it took to secure like peace and freedom for the galaxy. That's, I think that's right.

Yeah. That seems right. And what it took was just smacking little bug guys around. With an electro-torchering, he's going to stop on you. Please. All right, little. I'll let you live, I guess. Oh, a nice egg you got there.

Seems real important to you, buddy. Yeah, we've all us family. It's so fucked up. He's so mean to this little guy. He's so mean. And also, this little guy is built in a lab to seem like a little innocent baby, baby guy, you know? The lab is the lab that they make the clothes. Oh, we know those guys are the verner van Braun.

We don't know. Of Geoototians. We have no. idea. They do not subtitle click-clack. Whose name, by the way, is click-clack, because that's what Ezra hears him, the sounds he's making. Does sound like click-clack. We're just going to call you click-clack. That might as well have just been a voice clip of Ezra Bridger saying it, because that's exactly what he says. I know. I'm not going to examine this anymore. And then later when we're in a safe place and I have more time, I'm not going to make a better effort to communicate.

I'm just going to keep making decisions for you. I want to listen to the Star Wars equivalent, though, of Car Talk. You're a click-clack. You're going to talk about, just call in with your questions about your space show. Yeah. So, Han from Corellia, what's going on? So the hyperdrive, here's what I've done to fix it. It hasn't worked.

All right, lay it on a song. So, what does your wookie think you should do with the, what do you think you should do about the hyperdrug? I want to talk about my wookie. Put me on the phone. Not now, chewy. Chewy, no. God.

So, yeah, do we want to walk through? Is there, are there any other big structural questions in terms of the show before we get into the walkthrough? Yeah. Okay. Deidosis. I guess we should remember. I guess, okay, here's, sorry.

One thing that I do just want to remind us of, because it's been so long, is the last episode we watched was Visions and Voices, which is where they get the Dark Saber and they go to, remember, they go to Dathamere and Ezra, the Sabine and Canaan get mind controlled and said, you know, they have to do all that stuff. so that was the last thing that we saw that's all so mall is still out and about remember this and then they like killed the ghosts of the again

I guess they left them hide yes can one clan of witches be wiped out I don't know Ali genosis is also the brain worms right genosis is the brain worms there's no mention of brain worms at all in these episodes we come right off of the mind control arc

and we don't even have like a teaser was Rex part of the crew that got brain word? I was wondering this, too, because I would have brought it up. Yeah. That's a queen, like you say. Oh, you're wrong.

You guys know anything about... What was that episode? I'm looking at up. See, you know some queens? Yeah, that was the episode's... What was it called? But even if he wasn't there, when you know that,

when there have been talk about that, like, back at the base? I don't know. Like, there's not, like, I was so confused the entire time that nobody was mentioning it. You know, maybe they, maybe they got buried.

I mean, Rex was not on that mission, apparently, or at least was not in the brain invaders episode, different clones, most of whom died. You might remember, I think. Maybe they didn't. Maybe, no, she froze them, right? She freezes them to death. Yeah, so that's good. But in, like, a non-lethal way.

But in, like, yeah. Yeah, sorry, not to death. She freezes them so the brain worms are frozen to death. The people get to lift her up. But yeah, you're right. Oh, that's right. That's not. It's not a focal point.

No one talks about it. Most of they talk about it's sandy and dusty. We get a, we get a, I hate sand. It's everywhere or whatever bullshit reference line of which they, stupid sand, it gets everywhere, which they toss onto Sabine, which is unfair to Sabine, I think. Don't make Sabine do the little reference jokes. And they focus on the fact that there used to be a bunch of them and now there's none here. That's kind of big, that's the genealogious.

Gianosis. I keep it in confused now because they say Gionotian a lot. And I feel like I used to say Gianosin. But maybe I didn't. Maybe I said Gionotion. What did you, what did y'all say? Ginoosis. Gion ocean.

Okay. Saul says Gionosin. But everybody else is Gionotion. I've got to know is that. I don't know. I would need to run the tape now on what we said. Yeah. Or is that is that no one wants to tell Forrest Whitaker he's saying the word wrong.

Hmm. I don't know. Anyway. so they go in the hole they do they first they fly through a really cool dust storm the volum metrics in this show continue to be really pretty yep when they're like flying towards it it looks sick yeah go in the hole you go in the hole and then they're finding like abandoned rebel helmets that must mean they're all bad The quick clock eat them?

I don't. This is what I don't understand. I don't. You mentioned this before, Rob, that, like, did they lose this fight to, like, a couple of battle droids? Yeah, like, what's really weird is there aren't battle droid parts that are, like, scattered from a fight. Do you know what I mean? Like, it was like, a battle happened here, and they took out some battle droids. They lost huge, dude.

They lost bad. It was like. Sam Darnold was the QB. Sam Donald, yes, it's the Vikings game of battles. It's rough. it's not good uh i would be embarrassed yeah by this um and i think saw we have some questions about like your leadership of this group yeah because they just got got by like the clankerist of clankers like these are old past warranty battle droids okay well speaking of clankers and droids

so they find the uh the helmets and stuff they don't even find it's not even bodies really that they find, right? It's armor and how much... It's going to say it was like AIM. If that happened and like that something saw knows and nobody else knows, that would really color a lot. Again, I would have brought it up. I would have brought it up. Where do my men are? I don't want to say it in front of the kid. I couldn't pull you aside and tell you. The, the, they get to a point where they're like, okay, should we go deeper or should we go back out? Because we need either more support or we're taking a big risk and we can't get more support because we're in the cave and we can't send a mission or a signal out to hera and so they take a vote and the vote between the following

people turns out to be two to one rex azra chopper and canaan two to one who doesn't get a vote here chopper doesn't get a vote it's like a funny bit though they don't chopper doesn't get a vote because like fuck chopper chopper it's a rare instance where i think chopper is gonna agree with canaan and be like yeah we should get the fuck out of here but he doesn't get a vote so so the the ezra and rex who love to get into trouble like fuck it how do you break that tie i don't know yeah great good question i don't i think you you avoid it so that you don't have to realize a coin boy oh you have to flip the coin yeah but you can't flip a coin around multiple jett i'm just going to try to force push it around until it

Let's, like, force flip it to their side. And so then you're right back to, I'm sorry, like, Chopper, you don't get a full vote. Or you're looking at Rex. It's like, sorry, Rex, you're clone. Something else comes up here, which is, Ezra's like, what's a bat, what are the, what are the, what are the G notions even look like? And you either you remember what they're described as being looking, looking like? Looking, looking like battle droids, right? Is that true?

But is that true? Is this something I don't think so. Me either. I've never made that. connection. I get it. It's a real, we made them look like us. They could have built them to look like. Yeah, exactly. But then you have to really squint. You could have to really squint. They look like us, but. But the heads are like kind of. We made them taller and like lather in some ways. I kind of see it. Gene Ocean's do have long ass heads, but I didn't give them wings. None of the battle droids have wings. Not one battle droid I think is a winged creature. And if I was, like, making them look like me and I was a wing type of being, I'd get some wings on there. Anyway, they go deeper in. Yeah.

And they run into, so they encounter, they get ambushed by the droids. And they fight them off quite easily because they're old battle droids. I'm sorry, it's because the Jedi are there. Of course, that's really. It's two Jedi. Beal to block the shots. I'm sorry to interrupt. But I did find a picture of a Genocean so we could talk about the...

Yeah, please. Is this true? I guess, like, the leggy situation is really... I guess... No, because the leggy's... The arms... Okay, this does not look like click-clack. The toes?

I mean, click-clack specifically doesn't look like. They're making click-clack into a little cute genealion. Yeah. If you look at... If you look at... If you look at... This Geonotion from the side a little more, you can kind of see the head shape. I hate this thing.

This is... Yeah. It's rough, man. Okay, these, are these really Geo notions? Yeah, fuck these guys. These really have the head shape. That is the battle droid head shape. Yep.

I'm now looking at... Why is Cleodicle? I don't know. I'm now looking at concept art from much-to-learn you still have eight things you might not know about Geo notions on starloys.com. And there's concept art of them here that I feel like really does. emphasize the similar head shape. This is a very funny article.

There's ClickClack for us. Glick's just a bad rendering of Gene Ocean. This is bullshit. Maybe just the Rebel style. The long head, though. Oh, interesting. Do we ever see, we never see click-click speed, I guess. Don't get the, like, toe situation.

We sure don't. Well, I don't know that we don't. I was, to tell you, I was not looking at it. Yeah. Also, they decided, like, the little horse bugs, I guess. They don't have little Like mouth parts Like little like mandible

The type thing I get some fun facts here I'll go through it's eight fun facts About them One we just went over They couldn't get the death star right It's fucked up Two they were inspired by an infestation

George Lucas was apparently Had his house infested by termites And he gathered up some termites To show his concept artists So that's fun Fun fact one This is a separate fun fact list They've given me eight facts

And then inside of that eight fact list There's additional fun facts The head design was originally taken From unused concept art for the Nemoids Before they were played by masked actors So we almost got these in episode one Or always got these weird heads in episode one Very different

That would explain because they're the ones Deploying the battle droids That would make sense of more That would make sense Yeah Fact number three quote, they don't value life much. Fun fact four, except for click-clack

who apparently values life. You values the queen. Like, that's the way bugs do, you know? Like the queen. I don't think that that's a contradiction at all. I'll write this list. Number five, they enjoy a good grub. We're just doing a bugs life now.

We're just doing a bugs life. Fun fact number two, Picador. or Ginochetian's riding reptilian quadrupeds called orrays have been known to zap unruly arena fans into submission. Great. That's because you saw that happen for like one shot in the background. Yeah. Yeah, you got it.

Six, their sound actually comes from nature. Apparently, they gathered sounds, two sounds from Australia during the prequel shoots in Melbourne, a group of penguins at a reserve were recorded during their mating season. later a group of freak bats were fighting over a banana and they got both of those sounds and mixed them into quote the final mother tongue of the insectoids oh Orsynchronic is one of the few humans who can both understand and speak Geoenotian though not so well

according to Pogel the lesser number seven they have a cast system number eight don't mess with their queen fun fact number three geonotions are known to be xenophobes and don't take kindly to outsiders that impede on their territory. They hold too many secrets that can be discovered and exploited.

Thank you to Star Wars. Icom writer, Dana Jennings, for this one from 2017. And the number one fun fact about Geoenotians, Paul, is relay packets.

Yeah. They couldn't get the Death Star quite right. They couldn't get quite right throw the letter glass break sound you know so

anyway point is here's the thing I think we we haven't want to talk about this and it'll come up when we do a new hope but we need address the fact that like the rebels might actually be the least effective

fighting force in the Star Wars like the Stormtroopers so if we're saying like maybe Zon's right The stormtroopers, the elite soldiers. And that's why they just, like, bulldozed through those guys on the Tantafour and get Princess Leia. But, like, the Ewarks deal with those guys, no problem. The Ewk's wreck shop on the, on the stormtroopers.

But, like, again, those troop troopers were coming through a tiny little door. Yeah. And the rebels were, like, post up waiting. And they just got rocked. They just got rocked. And now, like, another rebel squad. gets absolutely ruined. Maybe it's Bales, guys.

Maybe this is the problem when it's like, peaceful Alderon is like your incubator for like a rebellion. And it's like, all right, guys. No, no, no, no. No poetry slam tonight. We're doing marksmanship training. But these are Saw's guys who,

and Saw is the opposite, right? Saw is the, you're not fighting hard enough guy. Also, to be fair. Sorry, Allie. Well, yeah. I mean, but we never hear Soss say, like, I'm allowed to beat him up. He killed my friends.

Like, are these just, like, mercenaries that he was working with? Does he don't fuck with these guys? And that's why he separated from them and they died? Like, there's no. Okay, here's the actual thing. I just rewatch the scene. It's not the Jedi who have no problem with them. The thing that happens is the Droidreca rolls in.

They start backing off because they can't fight a Doredeca. And they're being, like, pushed back. And then Saul shows up and kills every battle droid. The only thing that the Jedi kill is after that, it's the droiddeca. Everybody else, all the, the, deri decas, like the, that's the, that's the queen. That's the queen piece. That's the, that, of course, totally. But, but, but by the, by that point, Saul's someone who knocks the shield off for them.

So if Saul doesn't show up here, they might be in trouble too. Oh, remember when Saul famously learned how to take that droiddeca shields? I do remember this. It's a callback. He doesn't use that technique. here, I don't think. Roll the sheet. Let me see if he does.

I'm going to look very carefully because that would be fun. It would be fun if he did the people who don't remember, you have to roll the grenade into the bubble shield, you know? No, he just throws a grenade regular style and it makes the Dredeca do like a bounce back and when it lands, it's shield shutters and turns off. Wow, that's experience for you. That's right. He's able to do it without getting it into the shield now.

point being why didn't he do this the first time maybe or maybe there was rambushed so he got this time he got the flank last time the droids had the flank sometimes that's all it takes but then also those rebel troops weren't shit that's the other problem is they just panicked they just started freaking out and they just got like massacred and there was just nothing saw could do uh because lost all of them lost you know that's just how it is with these with these rebel cells i had to double check it but yeah games radar june 21st 24 or 2024 jesus 2014 uh the apparently that quote the mystery star war strategy game was actually a tactic game for a bunch of excom veterans and i'm suddenly a lot

more excited for it i hope that game is good i hope we get new on that game soon yeah i'm kind like like my my hope is that it's not just like xcom star wars but it's a little like i would Loves more. Closer to the scale of, like, the landing in Ambarra type shit. That would be, that would be real. A little more. My guess it's going to be X-Com. It's going to be, like, Jedi powers.

It's 15 X-Com people, so. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, company of Hero Star Wars would also be very cool. Yeah. Something is slightly bigger. Anyway. Anyway.

So, there's Saw, Rex, hanging out, meeting for the first time in ages. Meanwhile, uh, Sabine and Zev go on the surface. It's a really boring adventure. It's like, ooh, the dust storm is, I mean, the dust storm looks great, but it's like, we've got to find the sensor reading. And, you know, they're just walking over to a big shield generator and they're pulling the battery out. And then it's like, look out. You're in trouble because once the storm lifts, the droids will wake up. And it's like, what?

There's no droids around here. There's just a bunch of piles of rock. Sometimes. Obviously buried droids. Sometimes your party splits and you didn't expect it. And you got to give Sabine and Zeb something. to do and you didn't prep anything but it's pretty easy to be like um you could find the battery that your ship needs or that the alliance needs so we'll put you on battery finding duty and then

oh no you make some stealth checks or else the the destroyer droids are going to wake up like that's a pretty easy scenario you're telling me this wasn't an actual play you're talking me this was a tv show where they wrote a whole okay i see i see then maybe i would have given them something else to do maybe they're in the episode at least right there's another version of where they're just like on the ship the whole time for some reason and they just like don't exist so they could have been shooting the shit that might have been more fun that again like characters chatting is always you get a chance to have people talk that can be good too that can be the best that can be the best action of all how much do we love zuko and iro like running a tea shop yeah because that's where the show happens that's where the show happens what if her had been like not you two you're both grounded until you complete your chores on the ship because you're Neither of you've done whatever your chore is, and they have to, like, clean the common room together while all the shit is happening, you know?

That'd have been fun. That could be fun. Or, like, you could do, like, an old mash episode where they both write letters, home. Like, except Zab was writing to common dot genocide. And, uh, Sabine is riding to her mom or something. And, yeah, like, you do that. I would love Sabine to get to write to a mom or an ex

or a friend. Where's Oh no What was Joe Torres Yeah Yeah yeah yeah Exactly I would love

For for for Sabine to have that Or maybe they could have an episode Like this is the episode where they're being followed by a documentary crew Like a rebel like propaganda documentary crew And it's like this sort of some direct address to the to the hall Like that's a that's a tried and true one Yeah I can't believe we've gotten this far

How come Star Wars has not yet had The confession of a documentary episode Yeah Of like So why don't you tell me why you've joined the Like sort of rack focus, like character looks uncertainly at the camera. Well,

I had a bad time at the Imperial Academy and I thought I could try to make a difference, I guess. We are like two mid-Disney Plus shows from this actually happening. This could happen in that show I haven't watched yet. I have no idea. It's almost done, right? I'm going to watch it, which is all the way done.

People still love the office. Like, they'll just do it. No, but hang on, hang on. When MASH did it, it was elevated TV because the premise made sense that there would be a documentary crew. And you shot the entire show with a distinctive look indicating it's a documentary crew doing this. That's why it was black and white. But like there's no TV in Star Wars. There's hollows. I know, but we don't, I guess I would love, I would love for someone to explain the entertainment industry of Star Wars to me and to show us

what that's like. Could happen in Andor's season two. Maybe, you know what, there, he, okay, he's not a TV guy but he is a station he's a stage guy to an extent so like maybe like maybe that's the writer's room that's like you know what we're doing we're going to do the documentary episode right right yeah Diego Luna looking directly all right well all right well they're doing their thing and they're trying to get the yeah I mean while we're on the the beat of like wasted time here I suppose it's been a long time since we've had the like we're watching a two episode Rebels that could have been a four episode Clone Wars and especially since I've been thinking so much about Clone Wars I was like like even if you wanted to be two episodes and you wasted

less time in the first episode of being like are we going to find Saw this is so scary because saw is in here like you would have had more time for these other themes to breathe yeah well like this is a real, it could have been four episodes or it could have been one episode and two episodes is kind of the worst of both worlds a little bit. I like these episodes fine enough, but yeah. You got Forrest Whitaker. Oh yeah. I would give him a character with a little more to do than just like go Buck Wilde the minute is like, I just hate this bug so much. That sucks. Like we got for like think how much Forrest Whitaker does in that scene in Andor where he's like, you know, where he's sort of like out, yeah, that's a reference where he's

outlining why he hates the other rebel souls. Think about, like, is, conversating with Jen with, like, years of, like, guilt and, like, shame between them. All great stuff. Uh, and he's like, I'm going to smack the shit out of that little bug. He's just, I'm going to read this guy's like, he's Homer Simpson strangling part. Yeah. Uh, in this episode.

He literally is. That is exactly the energy. Why, you little. and that it's how it's how it's Forrest Winnaker saying it Why are you little? God

We do get a fun Actionish beat here We get the thing with Canaan moving the bridge Oh I think you're telling when they pull the battery Out of the shield generator That's a little shield generator No

That's very funny It is very funny That the battery is just With Trois Cadol of shield generators Yeah It's very funny But yeah I like the thing with the Canaan holds up

the bridge and everyone jumps across it. That's fine. It's fun. It's always fun when people who worked with Jedi in the Clone Wars era get to work with them again briefly, where it's like, oh, right, I can cheat. I don't have to, you know, Saw Guerrera's life is that he comes to a place and he's like, I guess we have to like go the long way around or like find another different pathway. Soararera is playing like a persona dungeon, you know, and he's like, I fucking, where's the switch for the Brit is there after they'll go back to two I saved an

hour ago if I die I lose all that progress and Canaan's like uh we could just wall hack you just teleport you across the screen I'm just going to use speed running tricks to force us to the next exit I was like all right cool awesome that's what Gem I do fun

and yet he can levitate bridges nobody could levitate Stella Stela launching to her death Yeah Speaking of she shows up Well,

Soka hadn't graduated That's right I stuck I hadn't graduated yet In fact I was learning those techniques Right That was like Part of what she was trying

To master still Um Is this the bit where we get The hologram of Stella Is that Steela or is that So the capture So they capture a little bug guy

Right And that's the end of the first episode Yeah And he's like I'm gonna smack the shit Out of this little bug guy And they're like Whoa

down there, friendo. He's like, I hate these things. They killed they killed my friends. Who did they kill? Because this is the other half of this that maybe doesn't work especially well. He did, he lost his buds just now. But like he

has the sort of like deep decades long enmity against the Geoenotions. And like, he didn't fight Geoenotions during, he fought just battle droids. I guess the battle droids are by the Geonotions. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. Yeah, it feels like he has separatist beef.

That's right. Yeah. It's like they were separatists at the time, which means that they are my original enemies, which means that like my eminemeter is like going crazy. They did go all in on the separatists. Like the Ginocians are not like, oh boy, we really got caught up. It's like they built the army. They did build the army.

And then they were like, what if big egg but with laser? I guess the thing that I was thinking about was the time that the, Jedi attacked geonosis and we saw them like flame throwering the geonotions he just wasn't there for any of that stuff so I don't associate him do you remember it was wild that was flu coooo in there was plokood I'm like all of the damn those are Jedi those are the council members those aren't even little Jedi what he's supposed to do with bugs what he's supposed to do with them like a flame door yeah yeah so you're going to deal with of it. So, you know, he also believes, the way that he's framing this is like, what imperial

secret was worth the lives of my friends, because he thinks what happened is the battle droids killed his crew because they're trying to protect some imperial secret, which again is like, the empire doesn't use battle droids, man. It's like the whole thing is that they weren't, they don't do that. So I think he's a little confused. I think he's a little, you know. Well, I do think I mean, it's interesting that there keeps being this budding up because, like, Saw has his original mission, which is like figure out what they were doing here. Yeah. And everybody else's mission is just like, let's just get Saul out of there. So Saw being like, no, I need to actually research this, like I found this guy is a little justified. And if like it was ever presented

in those terms, it would be great. And if Clack wasn't a little baby dog boy, you know. So there I am don't love so previously when Ezra communes with the space whales that works he's like they bond they share the sports vision they can communicate less compelling

a vision for his force power my name is Ezra Bridger what is your name oh it's not good is he even using the force here or is he just being

like that? No, he's just being done. He's being an anglophone, basically. Yeah. It's not great. It's not. Is ClickClack like a little kid? Is that why he looks like that?

I don't know. We don't even know. Now that sounds like I'm beating up a kid. I just don't know. He's so little. I'm looking at it. He's shorter than Ezra. Which is not how much he,

notions we've met are right maybe some of them yeah I don't know I mean like they play up the like you know he's just a little guy he's afraid he's defending himself and who framed Roger Rabbit

oh yeah uh huh but he doesn't even have wings you know I think he's a little guy I think he's like 12 or 14 I think maybe he's just not the type of worker has wings sorry right I forgot about the article I was

just reading about how there's different casts, and I bet one of them is that they don't have wings. I would bet money that if I went back to that article, that would be one of the things. I guess for the people who are just listening to the podcast and not watching them, the show ClickClack also talks with this like really cute melodic voice. Like air being put through like a synthesizer. Yeah. It's really fun. It doesn't say, that the worker cast doesn't have wings. But it does describe them as the warriors as having wings. It says here, let me just read here.

It says here, the lowest of the casts is made up of the worker and soldier drones, bred mostly to be disposable. These are the menial laborers responsible for constructing the Death Star, working in the droid factory or going to war. Factory safety regulations are very loose, proving the lives of the lower class aren't a concern for the top tier of geonotions

right I two things can be true click-clack is a child and that click-lack is also walking around constantly like with the droid control on him at a moment's moment to be like

I'm going to have these droids kill whoever scares me yeah it's true as a child would as a child would it's just frightened You know, I've just, you know, we have to... I've seen Terminator 2. Yeah, we have to take these together.

Yeah. So, they're like, what do you know? And he's like, circle within a circle. Oh, my God. And Saw's like, fuck is that. That doesn't mean shit. And Rex, that might be all he knows, Saw. You need to calm down.

He's like, I'm going to smack the shit out of this thing. And so go back and forth on that for a little while. he goes into his little he goes into his little Ariel mermaid treasure trove like objects that the guy keeps and Saul's like I'm just going to wreck your childhood bedroom just going to smash it

and it's like Saw stop it and there's a lot of like Ezra trying to come for the little bug guy in the background yeah it sounds like we're joking but it cannot be overstated how much of these episodes are just saw seeming

throwing a tantrum the rest of the party saying stop that's really mean and click like making these like whimpering song sounds yeah feels it's like 20 minutes of the side of the same kick the dog shit i've seen in star wars in a long time it really is you know it's just beat after beat like we come into this room and it's like no he's it's just this house to worry about it and then saw finds a gun and then it's like oh well maybe he should have beat him up because he has a gun but then I it just keeps I don't know

I feel like there's no maybe they just don't want to play a card because like but like a certain point isn't I'm sorry I'm a fucking Jedi like I'm putting you in time out I can put you in time out

I can like I'm just gonna put you in the air and you can like you're done you're done you're not letting you tear this bedroom up anymore like you're just you were going into air jail

that is what we're doing but they just let them they let him go so in all this Imperial Patrol shows up we've got an ambitious girl boss who's like

you know we do checking out what's going on geneosis and they realize my god that's the that's the ghost out there she's like we're all getting promotions off this guy so funny so they go after

the ghost the Thai bombers are immediately destroyed by Hera and Sabine and Zeb one of the guns is fouled with and that's where we get the sand, you know, the sand line about it getting everywhere. And so, uh, or sorry, they sent Zeb into the cave to warn them and set up a comment.

That's the point is they got to, the ghost has got to go down the hole to pull them out. And it's cool. It's a cool scene of falling, like coming down through the, through the big hall. And, uh, as they are going to. going to rescue the sort of the ground team from this, the Imperial Strike Cruiser sends in its rocket rocket jumper troops. Yeah. They get them. They do like pick them up because we get another round of, of before the fight happens, we get another round of Saw torturing the child Geneocean because this is where Canaan is like, yeah, I mean, I can't blame them after what they did, you know.

And then he opens the door, and it's like, zzap. And the click-clack is getting tasered to, not to death. He's getting tasered repeatedly by Saw as he's. Wait, is this before or after? Because they're born the ship by this point. They were aboard the ship. I thought the jump troopers came down before they got the ship. No, they're already on the ship when that happened.

Okay. So yeah. So they have to leave the ship to defend it. This is right after Harris is like, can I talk to you about Saul? Yeah, 100%. Hey, so I know, if you know, if you know, you know, to cross every email I get from Rebel Command. There's been a few Incidents

There's been a lot of conversations Offline about Saw And I'm just saying Like I know you like this guy But like He might be up to some shit They open the door Bzz

Yeah Dance you little fucker And then he says like Well I'm taking the ship I'm commandeering the ship Yeah Okay wait Now I'm like

Losing the structure of this Because it's like They're fighting in click clack room. There's the gun and then there's the egg. They find the bug. Yeah, sorry, the egg. I said the bug. They find the egg. And then there has a circle on it. Right. This must be what he's talking about. And then there's like arguments of which way to go. There's a, like, click, clack is like, let's go left. And then Saw is like, let's go right. And they go right or whatever. And then there's the, there's, like, Saul wants to leave him there to die or something.

something or take No, he wants to take him to interrogate him. Okay. And then, and then Canaan and Ezra, before they get on the ship, are like, no, we're bringing him to the ship and going to question him there.

And then when it's done, we're going to bring him back. Right, exactly. I think that that's what they're, I think that if I remember right, that's where they are. They don't want to leave him to die. Right. With the empire. Right. At that point, they know the empire's coming. Exactly. Saw doesn't say I'm going to steal the ghost

I think he's going to steal whatever they replaced the Phantom with oh right you're right it's the shuttle you're right I'm going to take your shuttle and the whatever I was thinking the ship is the shuttle but you're right they have the separate ship thing right so he holds up this facade of like oh we'll just question him all together normally for like

maybe three minutes maybe that's a high estimate of the show it might be a minute the room and it's just him and Ezra and he's like okay time to attack there's no this is my one opportunity. Yes.

And then they're, like, debating, like, should we take him back to Chopper base? Are we going to take him to Rasaas' base? Or where are we going to take him? And that's when the Imperial jet troopers start to Iraq. Thankfully. He, like, punches Ezra.

Good. So he doesn't punch. He, like, throws Ezra. But anyway. He throws Rex, too. He does. He's just... He does not go down easily

Rex is an old dude at this point Rex is older than him right So And he's like well Actually he's probably younger than him by years Because of how clones work But yeah But you know the rapid

Yeah So so look We have a little rocket tear battle happen Sabine goes out there And jetpacked around Kicks all their asses Wow that's Sabine Sabine gets a little bit of a dub

You know she didn't like Fumble the jetpack There's a there was episodes of the show where what would have happened is the jetpack would have fallen off of her shoulders and Ezra would have picked it up and done jetpack shit, you know? So I'm glad they like let her have her have her

But they didn't overplay it where it's like The characters enjoy watching her like Have her little jetpack moment. Yeah. But it doesn't turn into it. Only Sabine can Like it's like good like hey like this is what she's built to do Is go win these, win these fights. Yeah. And get a fun little she lands. Ezra's like I want a jet pack.

She's like I know. Also, in the middle of this fight, yeah, I know it's very funny there. In this moment is where Saul, like, turns the corner, right? Hara is like, listen, can I count on you during this? And he's still, like, holding the egg as collateral, basically. Holding done to it, hey. Yeah. And finally, he's, like, in a fight against the empire?

Any time. Anyway, little guy, here's your egg back while I go kill Imperials. Because that's what he really cares about. All those other shit, it can get sidelined, you know? It's just so outrageously cartoon violence for him at the drop of a dime, being like, I'm going to point this rifle at an egg, and I'm not going to interrogate this because it's justified because people lose it more. Right. Not just an egg, a queen egg. Rex is identified it as the egg of a queen or like a queen egg.

How the fuck does Rex do that? Okay, I can tell you why, because he was trained to destroy them by the, as a clone probably in the war. Yeah, sure. Right? Make sure we killed these eggs. Definitely a thing. The Jedi told him. It's fucked up.

So, yeah. Obi-Wan, like doing a multi-part lecture series on, like, the fascinating creatures. Obviously, if you see these, they must be eradicated on site. Do not worry about killing their young life. Like, they don't value life the way that you do. That's right. Yeah. If these eggs hatch, please deploy your flame.

your flame throwers. Yep. Anyway, Saul just turns the corner abruptly. Yeah. And it's like he's good with it now. And then they go deeper. And circles and circles, there's the big chemical weapons pots. The Empire just took the lid off of and just like smoked them out.

They're like, if you've ever seen like on the side of the road, if you're driving out a highway, like a gas or oil, can't like a big circular spherical. like oil canister. They're huge. Like, I don't know, 30 feet, 40 feet tall or something in these shots, maybe taller. Like, they're really up there. They're big.

And, uh, I guess this is the thing he was drawing. They don't look anything like the thing he was drawing. Mm-mm. But he can't, Ezra can't communicate with him well enough. He's like, no, the death star. Right.

The death star. Anyway, Saw has his reason to take the shock collar he had on him off because that was a thing, by the way. We didn't mention it. Maybe you did. I definitely haven't mentioned. He had a shock collar on him for a little while there.

That's how he was shocking him. Yeah. He teased to find the picture of Stila. I forgot that part. After the first time he goes bad shit on the little guy, he drops his hollow of Stila. And Ezra's like, hey, you drop this. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah, there's like, we did. Like the actual sense. experience of like going through these caves all day with these people that you don't know and this genotian that you were like coming specifically to interrogate and then you could also hear them whispering about your dead sister like down the hallway because like there's the people have these conversations to each other because it's a show it's fine like while they're together but like saw had to like live through this yeah uh-huh yep alas anyway he takes

the shock color off and he's like these canisters are all we need to prove that the empire wiped out its people which isn't true everyone loses family in war even the enemy the de notions deserve the same chance to rebuild that we do damn you can't email a translator droid like where's the look the more the show goes on the more we realize 3PO is a Oh my god 3PO is everyone's like R2 is And R2 is S tier He's a god tier like rogue

Like he can But 3PO 3PO You don't get anything done Talks to everybody Nobody can do that Yeah And this is the bit where

They freed click clack Click click click click goes over to like some rubble He reveals that there's a little hole That they can grow That he can go down with the queen egg And And everyone's like oh maybe there's more, maybe there's some more Ginochet's

down there. And Rex is like, they sure are a resourceful people. Bro. Bro. Bro. Uncle words right there. I'm, you know. The thing is, you're at, you're at

like family dinner and your uncle says that. And you're like, well, he could have sent some worse stuff. He could have said something way worse than that. So I can't be like, I mean, I got to tell it. You got, you shouldn't make generalizations, but I'm not trying to say that they're you know they're not not resourceful i get it like but that was they have to be resourceful we built a world in which they have to be resourceful they've been

killed you know it's it's a lot man it's well then rex is like no i can say that because i'm also part of a de individualized collective you're right that's right i yeah that's fair that's that's fair rex you're right uh so yeah he goes down in his hall it's gonna be great imagining that a hatching and it feeding on him. Oh, yeah. Probably how that's going to go. Yeah. I don't see a ton of food sources down here on Gino's.

So, like, that thing's going to hatch. Rob, they're a resourceful people, Rexence. And one of those resources is the guardians of the eggs when they hatch. So, yeah, the queen's definitely going to eat him. I just, I'm so with Saul here. Like. You think you should bring him out, bring out. Like, like, really, really.

should have been brought back to a base for some real questioning some like actual they got three bail organa and three oh yes excuse me can you guys just find out what circle within a circle means yeah my word he says

they designed a large battle station they just weren't able to figure out the the main weapon and then yeah they they the interdictor or whatever comes over the top gets blasted it gets just shoot it it gets just ripped right in half it's embarrassing those missiles maybe didn't they get missiles

recently I know it's been a year since we watched the show remember there was the episodes who was that who was the guest in that who is the who is the they worked together with battle droids to secure missiles or something yeah or was that one was that one um chopper met his husband and they stole the transport that had munitions on I can't remember maybe that oh maybe or was it when Honda was trying to like sell them but also sell them you know

Cooney Honda point is they got proton torpedoes and it blew the strike craft oh it was the last battle but wait is this actually am I wrong that's the they find the old droids then and it's what's his face it's the it's remember it's

it's the super droid it's Kalani the it's the droid who was the Anderon droid droid. Oh, shit. I believe. Well, they can't tell, they cannot tell Saul about that.

Yeah, we let him, uh, we let him go. We're kind of cool with him now. Yeah. He was actually way more chill than you are, to be honest. So. Yeah, it was, it was proton torpedoes is what they fire here. And I think, I, or rather, it was proton torpedoes that they got from that mission with, where they worked alongside Kalani, who had previously been the leader of the occupation of

Saul's planet. And I believe they shoot proton torpedoes here. And that's kind of why they're so effective, you know, which is fun. It's fun to see them blow up. You know, it's fun. We've always said this, that part of the thing that's fun about rebels is its use of continuity and its use of like carrying specific endeavors forward and like, oh, all of season two is about finding a base for the rebels.

And then now in season three, they're trying to find resources and like seeing them get the proton torpedoes earlier this season because last battle was the sixth episode of season three. And now we are, you know, whatever, 13 episodes in. And they're using proton proton torpedoes. Nice, good, simple, effective. And it looks cool. I would have maybe done this before trying to take off with the canisters that you've attached to your ship with a big magnet. But they didn't really think it was going to work is the thing. I think they're surprised. Like, wow, that just went straight through the whole armor and just like rip that ship in half. I'm amazed we get a reaction shot from inside the ship of them being like, whoa, we got, because I think everyone's dead.

I think everyone's dead. Like, that is like, that's when the hood went up against the Bismarck. That's like nobody survived that. Like, you see the thing just exploded from the core outwards. Nobody's, that's a full, that's a full kill. I guess we can also say, even though they look like little Star Destroyers, they're crucially are not. Yeah, they're not. These are small crew.

These are like, this is like blowing up a police SUV. Right. Exactly. Exactly that. Yeah. I think that's true. I mean, it seems safe to say they ain't shit, but either way. Yeah. And so then everyone's like, we're all friends now. And look, Ezra, I know that you saw some pretty out-of-pocket behavior from Saab. But the important thing is we're all rebels here. You don't need to file that report. There's not even, like, enough sauce to scrape off the plate to talk about how, like, stupid and ridiculous saws, like, whole thing here is, right? The problem is, because it's just... You're setting up a character. It's tied into Rogue One. Yeah. You've already watched him.

Is he got dark snuffaloffagus. Yeah. Uh-huh. To torture people's brains using his torture snout. Yeah. So to an extent, you're kind of locked in. What's the orchestra? What's this character like at this point in history?

Well, you got to show how he's going to turn into a guy who's going to be like, I think we can put snuffalo off against the work. Uh-huh. It's a black sight interrogator. I just. I don't know, bird. Shut the fuck up. And you wrap your snout around that guy's brain. We need the intel, snuff.

Uh. It's just like we, like, you know, I, to go as far as like, pointing a gun at a newborn is basically what it saw is like, I mean, not born yet, but isn't it? Like we, it's like even more than that because it's the queen who can theoretically resuscitate the entire people. Right. Yeah. Uh, yeah, we are talking about like full genocidal action. Oh, yeah. And the, you know, the only, you know, justification we get from Saul is like.

Like, well, people die in war, so I have allowed to kill people. That's fine. And then I, like, Austin, you mentioned actual play before. And it really felt like saw his change at the end is like, oh, I have an XP, enough XP to like change myself from evil to neutral. Like, there's no, there's nothing that happens that is like meaningful or like. That is, that is the vibe. It really is.

It just, yeah. I don't know. uh well that's these episodes kind of a short one but you know i can't begin to tell you how i had ghost of genosis circled on my calendar with the start of the series like we're gonna get into it well you know i think it's interesting to know i think we've moved past very rapidly here is the thing that happened is they built the death star and then to cover up the creation of the death star they the empire killed them all right like classic Empire does genocide moment, you know, ding. But like, the show doesn't give that that much attention. You know, we're not, because of the lack of a translator, we never get click-clack getting to deliver a perspective on that. You know what I mean? Like, we don't get any sort of like vision of the death that was caused. We just get empty hallways. And that's like effective, but they're not even, like, empty hallways filled with the things that belong.

Like, we get click-clacks room of, like, knick-knacks. We get click-clacks nicknacks, but we don't get the sense of, like, you know, you've seen footage of places that have been bombed fairly recently, probably. And there are often signs of life. And there aren't signs of life in these hallways and these caves, you know? And so it ends up feeling kind of flat, even though I think on paper that pure fact that is the empire used these people to build them their super weapon after also kind of using them to manipulate as one of the key members of a galactic manipulation into creating

war everywhere. You know, the fact that they killed them all, like that's an interesting story beat. That's an important thing to understand the empire would do. But it's just not played up well here. You know, it's not really delved into. So. Right. It's like an Easter egg for people who are paying attention. It's like, you know, the conversations we usually have about saw and did in the clone wars was like, you know, he is the attempt of like a writer's room to talk about like rebellion and how it can be bad and how some people, you know, people go too far. They're too extreme.

But this is even more of the like, like ridiculous bullshit neo-liberal version of that where it's like, we don't even care about click-clack we care about the fact that we were nice to him but we do not care about his experience or what he has to say or you know it's like oh he's going to go into his hole and he's safe now but there's no talking like hey do you need some food do you need some money like do you want a ship somewhere like there's just nothing right there's not even a cynical like maybe we could get the geonotions if there exists still to like help fight the empire who wronged them. They're just gone, okay, bye.

Farewell to the Geoenotions. It's a little much. Okay. And maybe we'll get more. Who knows? Yeah, I, yeah. We do get more saw in rebels, right? Oh, we definitely get more saw on rebels.

I know a particular, like, upcoming, uh, I know, I don't know the plot beats, but I know that Saul comes into conflict with a particular character. And I'm very interested to see that. So, and we'll see if maybe that, that second run of it will be better. But I guess we'll, but this was not a stellar outing. No. No.

This was not, this was not a game, like, first, the rookie performance we were hoping to see from Saw and Rebels. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm with you, like, fundamentally, this, this episode has either got nothing going on. It's got too much going on. It's the two episode arc is just killer for it. And either you needed to invest in, like, the three, four episode, let's dig into the history of what happened here. Right.

The way that we built out Mandelor, you know, in the Clone Wars, yeah. Or we need to just say, like, yeah, look, they're doing a Scooby-Doo episode in a cave. And they go in the cave and they find the empires, like evil pots. And, you know, we move on from that, too. You're not wrong. Yeah. yeah that would have been fine you're right i think that would have been fine and we did yeah i don't know it's tough it's tough also does the show know the ridiculousness of their like liberalism holding out

hope that the uh like if we show up to the the senate with these pots i i don't think it does i think we're supposed to really believe that like damn and like i get it remember the senate still exists now at this point, right? But I don't believe that even with the poison pots, what do you think is going to happen? What additional restriction do you think is going to be put on the imperial military at this point? Like, you might pass a law, but it's not going to hold anybody to anything. And I think really, you know, maybe we can't say anything about what the writers did or didn't intend. The only version of this that I can retrieve that is still useful or, like, rehabilitate is, like,

oh, the characters are that naive still. The characters still believe in the Senate. Bale or Ghana is a senator. Maybe Bale could, if he gets this evidence, he could get enough people to do something. Maybe they really do believe that still. You know who shouldn't have believed it? Saul Guerrera. Saw should have been like, we didn't need those anyway. There was no way that this would have helped us. The Senate isn't going to get anything done, but he doesn't have the space to say that here. What they do end up saying, which is kind of funny, is we got the pictures and we could use those to recruit more rebels, which

is actually fun. That's the interesting thing that, like, Bail even has this, like, excited tone of voice of being like, well, this is going to be great for PR. We'll get more people in. But even to have Saabby, the person being like, yeah, the pictures of these guns are going to do it. Thank you for

the picture of these guns and the circle with the circle on it. The thing you're definitely talking about. Because, you know, they've done interesting things here where you had that like dissident senator that was used as like a honey pot for

rebel cells because like people are clinging this idea that the Senate is going to fix this. There are senators who are that there's still an institution here independent of the emperor that could sort of bring this empire thing to heal. And I guess up into

like Leah opens the opening thing she says to Vader is like the Senate will hear of this. this. And in retrospect, that becomes a comical line. Like, yeah. And then what? Like, but I guess the crucial thing is in a lot of ways, a new hope is sort of like the empire pulling all the masks off all the ones, right? Like the death star is operational. We don't need the Senate. Tarkin is like, finally, we can dispense with a fiction. That thing is still relevant. And then the death starts blown up. And it turns out this whole play was sort of a sort of chumped the gun on

this. But yeah, like, I think it does kind of make sense that even here with people who like are aware of the evil they are facing to an extent, there's still kind of this belief that, well, if the emperor, if the Senate wielded the power that it still has on paper and sort of all pulled in one direction, you'd get this thing back under control. But I think you would have to see a little more. And maybe they will get into this. Maybe a little more wrestling with they voted this guy in. Yeah. There's a lot of. lot of people who really feel pretty good about putting Palpatine in charge and like all the things the empire is done like and and showing up with man they killed the geon oceans I think there's a lot of

people in the new republic were like yeah they were our enemies though like I mean yeah they should a whole race be exterminated no but like they were building all the weapons that they turned against the entire galaxy in the clone wars like they got God they sure did yeah well guess what's next time

there's one standalone I saw from Disney Plus it looks like there's a standalone yeah Warhead is a standalone all I know about it is the visual design

that's right all I know about it is a visual design of a droid I'm excited to see that droid then we get trials of the dark saber and legacy of mandolore.

It's Sabine time. Sabine backstory is here. Time to do the new paper bag. They're going to do it. It's time. I'm holding out hope. They're going to land it. They're going to land the jetpack.

They're going to land the jet pack. They're going to, they are forcing themselves to write Sabine episodes. Not Sabine goes on a mission episodes, trials of the Dark Saber, and legacy of Mandelor. which, you know, maybe they, I really am hopeful. I really truly am. I know a lot of people who love Sabine. I know a lot of people who, like, get frustrated when we say Sabine is not a great character.

I hold the position that I would like Sabine to be a great character and that she should try being a better character. I think the writer should try writing her better, you know, and here we go. Up to the place. This is, this stage is set as far as we are concerned. There's not more. there's no more coy left to be had. Right, because your point being that historically part of the thing that's felt like is like

they are afraid, they're not afraid, but they're like refusing to tell us the truth about what's happening. We've been given crumbs. We've been led a trail of crumbs leading to whatever reveals of Sabine. We are about to get these next two episodes. Let's also say facts about Sabine in a circle until we run out of facts about Sabine. Okay. I'll go first. She loves it.

You'll go first. She loves art. She went to the Imperial Academy, an Imperial Academy. Her mom, it was one of the Mandalorian separatists, one of the evil ones. She was part of right. What is the name of that group? Death Wish. Death Watch.

Death Watch. Death Watch, yes. Right. She was part of Death Watch. you said art already I think that's me I think it's back to me Oh it's back to you yeah

Phew thank God Yeah because the mom was gonna be my next one I was hoping that that Ali had something else dialed up Yeah and then she said her mom What I'm like fuck Okay So Another thing I know about Sabine

You can't just say like she's Mandalorian That's not enough No that's not that's not one I'm gonna say She worked as a bounty hunter During gap year between middle school and high school That's right. And she did that with Ketsu Onyo, who was played by Gina Torres, who also seemed like 15 years older than her, but I guess maybe not.

Does it count as a fact about Sabine if you're just saying another character's name? They seem like they were, they seemed like they were exes. But the show wasn't clear about it. Okay, okay. Oh, I thought of a different one if you don't have one. You mean me to do a different one. No, no, no. I think, I think that's, because you remember the name of the character.

I think that counts. Okay. She was like in an advanced classes in the Empire military, right? Is that true? She was. Hang on, no, you're right. I don't remember this. Hang on.

But it wasn't just advanced classes. What was it? Oh, was it weapons? Because it comes up in this. She comes up in this episode. She's like, those are from the Imperial Weapons Lab or whatever, right? Like, she's like, she knows, I mean, that's the next one I had was, She does explosives.

She knows how explosives work. She knows how explosives. It was a really long time to say explosives. It really did. I'm proud of us and Sabine. Yeah. Okay. That's, those are, you know, some bullet points.

She's related to the Vizsla's. She related or she's just part of Death Watch? I think she's specifically related to the Vizsles. Her clan was in the Vizla hierarchy of some sort. Yeah, I think because when they run into those dudes on Concord Dawn and she's like, I challenge everyone to a right of combat. But and they're like, oh, yeah, real rich coming from a Vizla. Right.

I already said the explosives, well, I think that's it. I think that's all we got. We'll find out if we add some new stuff. I know bullshit facts, like she painted a bunch of the stuff on the ship, but that's just... The art color of the art, too. It's not much there. Yeah, I'm trying to think of one more thing. That isn't just plot, like, she did that thing with Lando that time.

You know, like, that's not anything. No, no, no, no. Backstory thing. Yeah. I guess we know she hasn't spoken to her mom for a really long time. It seems as though, we don't know. We don't know why she left. We don't know why.

Yeah. Does she seem surprised that her mom is still alive or just that it was like, oh, we're cut off. I don't talk. Mostly strange, I think. I think it's strange. It was the vibe. Yeah. And then she knows what the Dark Sabre is, you know?

But that's just like Mandala or shit, so. Did she? because she didn't not give a shit about it I guess she was like under a trance or something. She's under a trance, but she does I can't remember what happens with that. Isn't she like, oh, it's the dark saber. Does she not? No, because like, Ezra just

takes it from her. And she isn't like, hey, where is the Darth saber? That's kind of important. Did you just leave it in that weird cave? She picks it up, though. She takes it with her at the end of that episode. Oh. So she at least has. I see. I see.

Hence, trials of the dark saber is my hope. If it's trial to the Darksaber and it's Ezra, I will quit the show. He's the one who recovered it. Okay. If that happens and we all just get really bad about it, can we just stop watching rebels and play Cotor 2? Just for a little. Can we just like take an emotional break? Oh, we'll finish the season.

Now we can do Cotor 2. Okay. If it's Ezra, it has to be the trials. It has to be Ezra's going through the trials. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Which it will not be It can't be this

If it is Could I just like call out for a little bit What if they're like We'll both go through the trials As long as she gets to the trials And outperforms Ezra I'm good

There's no way Ezra gets to do the trials He's not a Mandalorian Okay No I know I was Grogou But that's not gonna stop them From me

Actually the real Mandelorian was Grogu He's a foundling Ezra's a foundling They found him Oh Season four of the Mandalorian opener, Grogued, his little chain mail outfit, walking through a jungle. Yeah.

Oh, we found the other Mandalorian. It's Ezra Booder. I'm prepared for Ezra to be... Because remember the episode with Tetsu Onia where he's like, tell me about da-da-da. Like, oh, and then they talked to me about blah, blah, blah. And he's, like, being shut out because, like, she does. don't want to, like, he's like a little annoying brat in that episode. I'm so ready for him to be that if he shows up in these episodes because they're all about mandoloring culture and he's

like such a like a curious little boy, you know? And she is like, all of the stuff is my deep-seated trauma and anxiety. I don't, I'm ready. I'm ready for Ezra to be the worst we've ever seen him. We'll see. Oh, man. Sabine, to him, your culture is a costume. That's his thing. Yeah. He's just like, Helmets? Hold, you guys have cool.

Oh my God. If he's, oh, they're going to make him weird about Mandalorian helmets. Hell yeah, they are. He's going to be,

he's going to be a weave about Mandalorians. Warhead, trials of the dark saber, legacy of mandolour next time. A jet pack is his OB sash. That's, let's say that that's what's going to be,

we're assuming that Natalie will be able to join us. I think if Natalie cannot join us for the big Sabine episodes, we have to put them on pause and do something else. If we do, we'll announce that. We're over on blue sky now.

We are more civilized on blue sky. Is that correct? Yeah. Probably won't be good or two. We'll take a long time. Excuse me? That was a real suggestion.

I know if we have to pivot, we'll do something else. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I really just almost played it the other day, though. You almost played Cochardot. Yeah, I was just like, I wouldn't really want to go out.

I just, it would change the whole live. You're ready. You are itching for us Cotor 2. I just think it's weird that I haven't. It is weird that I haven't.

People who have played it especially think it's weird that you have it. Let me tell you. They know about that game. I'm looking forward to when we finally get into Cotor 2. We'll get there.

Once we're all through all the Star Wars stuff. Or the next time stuff happens we have to like pivot to. We could do it as bonuses. It would just take a year. And that might be how long. in the air. That would be so long.

We'd have no flow. Well, yeah, it would have no flow. I think you'd do it in a year. I just think it would, it would have no flow. So let's finish rebels. Let's do Andor, Andrew, and, ander, let's do Ander. Ander, uh, does Andor two have a C, does it have any?

Ender season three. It's April. Let's see. The formal, this is from joeblow.com. The formal release date for season two is set for April 22nd, 2025. So, April Twenty second. File your taxes. Kick back.

Watch Andor. That's right. Yeah. November 9th is when they announced. Yeah, April 2025. So, so April we'll be doing Andor, which I suspect we will have,

we will be done Rebel season three in a few more episodes. We'll probably be in Rebel season four. Or we begin our road to Andor. Our road to Endor. We watch things like Battle of Algiers. I mean, to me, that's good bonus content, Rob. Season 4 of Rebels is 15 episodes.

So we might be done Rebels. Maybe we can make it. Maybe if we hustle a little bit, we can make it. I'll try to map it out and see what the vibe is. We don't hustle. We have to chew things over. We just did two hours on Ghost of Geno. We didn't.

No, we didn't. We did an hour and a half, Rob. Rare for us. We can become lithe and agile in 25. Lithe and 25. We can't, we're in A-T-A-T, my friend. We are not in a way. We could be a B-wing.

They can kind of transform between two modes. We can be in cool zip-around mode and then super laser mode, which, by the way, where did that go? Get that B-Wing they had bad. We couldn't figure out the lasers. Damn. But I do, you know, we can glide through things. I agree. No, for sure.

Yep, that's. Totally do that. We'll kick it in the overdrive. Turbo mode on Rebel Season 4. I still have to figure out exactly the breakdown of the rest of the episode this season. Hell yeah. But I'll figure all that out. We'll see what if it's doable before Andor starts.

It would be great to be able to do, to be done Rebels before then would be really fun. Because what if there's a crossover? What if Rebels stuff happens in Andor? It's possible. I mean, it already has because saws there. Right. Yeah. And it's also the closest timeline as far as media goes, right?

It's the same time. Yeah. All that stuff is happening as we're watching this show right now. Faloni. Getting his little pause at everything. It'd be so good if a completely unadapted as for Bridger just showed up in the middle of Andor season two. Hey, maybe he's even still CG. So your name is Cassie and Andor.

Maybe he still see G is really funny It was just This Ezra Bridge with the bright eyes And the like the haircut he has now Oh, it's very funny So fucking good My name is Jabba the Hut There are characters

Oh my God I think Hera could be Could be an Ador all right I don't know that Canaan could Oh sure Har is already in Asoka I think that's right I have no idea

I think that's right Yeah yeah yeah I think her and Sabina Sorry for spoilers for anybody who's us. That is what it is. Yeah,

spoilers for us. Spoilers for you've been in the world for the last few years. It's been really hard to avoid Asoka spoilers unfortunately. Anyway,

with that, we've reached the end of another episode of a more civilized age. Our show is produced by Cato Contreras and supported by listeners at patreon.com

slash civilized. Next time, we'll be getting into those three episodes that Austin described before. Warhead Trials of the Dark Saber

and shit Legacy of Mandelor Yeah So we'll get into that Next time around Until next time Please rate and review us

On your podcast Platform of Choice And remember That little Gene Ocean dude He's probably fun That's right Watch Media Club Plus On more on how that could go

Oh, yeah, so true. Well, they cover the chimera arc. Yeah, the camera ants. This guy has Camara ant arc, or Camara Ants vibes. Listen to MediaComps. You know, an egg in her gown. Only one thing could happen. So true.