A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 107: The Occupation, Flight of the Defender, Kindred, and Crawler Commandeers (Rebels 64 - 67)

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

A clever mix of stakes material and spiritual? A return to Lothal, only to find it terribly transformed under the industrial violence of the Empire? A series of episodes where Ezra and Sabine really click as complementary characters? Oh, we are so back. And we won't even let the kind of forgettable (but basically enjoyable) fourth episode of this set bring us down. Support the show by going to Patreon.com/civilized! Next Time: Rebels 68 - 71 (Rebel Assault, Jedi Knight, DUME, and Wolves and a Door) Show Notes Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Chia Contreras (@a_cado_appears) Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Star Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zakeney, joined by Ali Akampora, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. We are, as always, supported by you, our listeners, via patreon.com slash civilized, so head over there if you'd like to support the show and get access to all our Q&A episodes, plus various special editions. This week, the ghosts, return to lowthall, and find things say. have gotten pretty bad there. Same, am I right? We also have four episodes that are pretty tightly chained together,

though they don't really add up to a four-parter so much as a series of light adventures around the same overarching plot point, trying to convince both riders' resistance on Lothal and the rebellion's leadership on Yavin that the time is not only right to rise against the empire there, but is actively necessary to stop the production of the TIE Defender.

So let's dive into it with the occupation, which sees Ezra troubled by dark visions of Lothal that he can't put out of his head. Canaan tries to calm him down by saying, consider putting these dark visions out of your head. But Ezra makes the point Austin did last week in response to the broader responsibilities they have as members of the alliance.

Ryder and his group on Lothal were promised support. The issue is forced by a message from Ryder that gets cut off but raises alarms that the Tide defender is going to tip the balance of space combat irretrievably against the rebels. But Mothma lets the ghost sneak back to Lotho Lothal, noting extraction might be impossible. The gang unite with Vizago to smuggle them past the blockade along with his cargo of puffer pigs.

The puffer pigs come in handy when they are boarded upon landing on the now devastated planet. And in the bouncy bedlam, the ghost sneak into the city as Vizago was busted. They find the city under occupation, their old barkeep, old Joe, has been executed. And his bar is now an imperial apple bees. Run by the snide imperial tie pilot, they ran circles around and see. Season 1. Sabine and Ezra are saved from being found out by, I don't know, one of the kids Ezra met at the Imperial Academy, but not the cool one that you remember. Also true. Meanwhile, Hera and Canaan are hiding from stormtroopers in alleys and Canaan tries the always an advisable combo attack of putting

Hera on the spot about their relationship while also trying to break their dry spell. They are interrupted by having to go steal some speeders, a plan which goes awry, and leads to a chase through the streets and into the sewers. After lots of sprinting around, being led by the mark markings on sewer walls in the forest of beans, Phoenix symbol, they find Ryder and make their escape aboard his U-wing after breaking the news to Ryder that the ghosts are the only help the rebellion has sent

for now. I think they're cooking. I think like we actually might be they might be cooking. I think I'm thinking we're back. Are we back? I might have literally written down in my notes at one point throughout these four.

episodes, I think we're back. Yeah, like, not to get us off of the occupation and back onto like the four episode arc here. Because right, it's not a whole arc because we're still in it at the end of these four episodes, not to get ahead of ourselves, but like we're still concerned with Lothal. We're still concerned with a Tide Offender. We'll eventually be concerned with something else that you'll set up when we get to a future episode. But like, they're doing it.

This is the show we signed up for, it feels like. I feel like it's like it's a return to season one, like the highs of season one, but with like the production quality and like finesse of a season four. But we're, but it feels like we're back to a lot of the things that they set us up to care about in season one. And then, you know, as the Phoenix Squadron got further and further away from Lothal, those things were less and less important to us. And it was just Ezra kind of along the way reminding us like, hey, like, I'm still the kid from Lothal. And there's still things that I care about at Lothal and were finally able to make good on that and see what's going on there. it strikes me that most of we've talked about before each of these seasons has like a meta arc of like season one is like hey are we screwing over the empire as we try to get by and like you know hitting them where it hurts but like not in a coordinated way or are we part of something larger okay maybe we're part of something larger okay we're part of something larger season two we need a base we got to find a place we have to like become self-sufficient we need a place to put our ships and so we're going to get this carrier the carrier needs a home so we're going to eventually get our

way to Adelon, and that's the end of season two, we get Adelon. Season three, okay, we're going to start trying to coordinate with groups that are bigger, blah, blah, blah, et cetera. That's been the structure of the show so far. But something that season one was able to do because it was all on Lothal, or nearly all on Lothal, is that it was able to tell a story about a place over a period of time so that even though the show was still episodic, there was still this sense of continuity and the sense of growth and learning about what was happening on Lothal. What was the empire doing here? What were we building to? There was a sense of, not just continuity, but a sense of build, of momentum because we were getting further and further into the Lothal story.

And as we moved into, okay, this week, we're doing an adventure about getting missiles. This week, we're doing an adventure about getting Y-wings. This week we're doing an adventure about getting a carrier. And maybe that'll be a two-parter because an important character is going to show up and it we're supposed to care about them. We lost that sense of, you know, there is continuity there. The rebel has built, the rebellion, is building its armory is a is continuity but it's not like this where it feels like we're building we're building we're building the tie defender is here we see them get it deployed and then we see it in action and that that sort of and then we get this kind of second spiritual force story that

we'll get to eventually that starts to be pulled through multiple episodes it doesn't have to resolve right away we didn't get to that the tie defender wasn't introduced and destroyed in a single episode it gets to be a threat over the course of what feels like the rest of the season or at least for the next few episodes, even after this, maybe. And so, you know, there is a, that does a lot for then letting them do smaller episodic stories that nevertheless feel like they can build on what came in the previous episode. They're writing like they expect you to have seen the rest of the season instead of writing as if they expected you to flip on the channel and go, whoa, is that a lightsaber?

And like, that's all the continuity they're willing to give you, you know? Totally. Also, it looks good. They know how to make it all look good. The lighting is so good throughout all of this. Yes. I was really struck by the blocking and just there's like more, I don't know. It just, it feels like the production has grown up a lot.

I kind of wonder if, so we know this is a short season, right? We know that this is not a full length season. It's only 16 episodes instead of the 22 that seems. seasons two and three were, and most of it's on Lothal. And I kind of wonder if what they decided was, what it feels like they decided. I have no idea if this is real. I was like, okay, we're going to, like, double down on Lothal. We're going to have Lothal, and we're going to have the Yavin IV base stuff.

That means we're not going to need as many new assets week to week as we normally do. And so we can focus our budget on making sure those assets look really good, doing special lighting for those assets, making scenes that are going to be, like, you know, there's some wild choreography in these episodes in terms of the action stuff. And I don't know, like, it's definitely a shorter season. I wonder if it was cut in terms of what its original goals where I tried to dig around and didn't find any clear answer on that. But it does feel like given what they had, they've done a lot of using old places we've been to really well and punching them up, you know. anyway yeah it just feels like there's something about this being the final season that it just feels

like everybody is on yeah like another level like especially the the first episode like the first scenes that we get in this episode are these like a bunch of like small little character interactions that we get through the gross crew in a way that like you know this this time would have usually been used to like set up a plot or do a little hijank and like sometimes there's a And it seems in character and sometimes they're hijank and it doesn't seem a character. And like there's just like it almost feels to me like sometimes you'll see this in a show when like the lower writing staff becomes the senior writing staff and they kind of want to show characters in the other ways or like everyone in the room is just like we're only getting this one shot at this. This is our last season. So like let's actually show Zeb and the clone guy who's named my friend.

forget who I should not forget. Rex. And Rex actually interacting. And like things like that, it's just like, we even have this episode and the last couple of episodes that we saw like full, like scripted lines from chopper that aren't just like dog barks, like as if they're doing, you know, character development for him in these moments too. And I'm just like, it's such a stark difference from what we got even last season that every

time it happens, I'm like, what is going on? Yeah. Yeah, I came out really high. I also came out being like, this is what I want that Bit Reactor game to be. I want to be doing little heists and little missions against the empire or like, this is the scale of the combat that I would love. We'll see, right? I have no idea what that game is. But I was like, ah, fuck, this is what I like about Star Wars. I want a bunch of like underpowered rebels trying to make do while Thai fighters fly overhead, you know, and it's scary. So the soundtrack cooks in this whole arc. I, you know, it's just, I think they're making a good show. I really do. And, and it's Star Warsy, it's hitting, it rhymes all the time. What do we have, Rob, you set it up, the beginning of this episode,

is Ezra being like, somewhere in the galaxy, something bad is happening to people I care about, I want to go deal with that. That is what happens to Anakin. That is what happens to Luke. That is the story of Star Wars, you know, is, oh, I have to go help my friends. friends. And someone says, no, you can't. And then how, what follows from there is sort of the story of Anakin turning to the dark side and the story of Luke realizing he sometimes has to do what Obi-Wan doesn't want him to do or what Yoda doesn't want him to do because that's what's true in his heart. Right. And so I, you know, that, that is great. And even the thing of, okay, we're going to introduce a military threat, the Thai defender, the death

star, et cetera, the droid army. And then, and then under that, there's going to be something else mystical happening, something else that has to do with the force that is a threat on a different scale. But we can't frame the whole story around that second thing because all these characters aren't tuned into that. We might have one or two characters who are tuned into that. But we need to get them on screen carrying about something firm and material so that we can then go into the esoteric and the magical, you know? So, yeah. Also, Vizago's back. Shout out to Vizago. was back. This could have been Honda.

They could have put Honda in these episodes. I'm shocked they didn't. I think this is... Zago feels more like Hondo than he... If Hondo was like this, I would be a big Hondo guy. But continue your thought. Because I think you're also right.

Well, so I think like Vizago when his first introduced seems like just sort of a sharp operator. But here now he is sort of the... It's such a Honda set of gags. The now constant referring to himself in third person, which I feel like been punched way up.

That's a big Honda move. You're right. True. Like it, you know, the, the schemes that are always misfiring, whereas like before he didn't seem like a guy whose schemes were always blowing up, he just seemed like the guy you dealt with. Well, the thing is he doesn't do this shit. That's what I like about him.

He has been thrown, he's a fish out of water in a sense. His scheme is, I show up with the puffer fish. That's my whole scheme. You know, I don't have rebels on board. And if that means bribing someone to get past them with my puffer fish, he would do that normally, but he can't do that when it's Rex and Ezra, you know. You're right that they've scaled up the comedy stuff, but it might just be delivery. I just don't dislike Vizago in the same way. And I don't know, that's, it helps. It's, it's like he meets, he's, he's,

he's meeting him halfway, you know, he's, you're right, he's not season one Vizago, but he's not quite, uh, I'm going to kill the younglings, Hondo, and then three episodes later, Honda the homie, you know? So last time we saw Lothal, we had that establishing shot when Calis was sending his message and I was like, hey, was the like, the canal always like brown that way? Does the planet look okay? Answered. Oh, yeah.

When they arrive at Lothal, it looks like the mantle's been cracked open. It's wild. What we discover, this is very cool, is probably what Ezra is seeing, is uncontrolled brush fires burning across the planes. But the planet is choked in dense cloud covers of smoke and exhaust. And it is sort of the quintessential, like the empire is finding many ways to destroy worlds. Yeah. They, an interesting production note here is that is the same matte painting that they originally used for Lothal.

they just then added the flame effect on top of it. But when people first saw the image of Lothal, I think in a preview episode or like a commercial or something, fans were like, well, they're not going back to Lothal clearly because that's not Lothal. But it's like, no, dude. They did that to Lothal.

And they even, they didn't even need to like make a whole new model or something. It's the original map painting just with new effects on top, which is wild. um puffer pigs love them always always good comedy bits yeah uh the visago gets caught when trying to at least salvage one puffer pig out of this deal and he does the thing of like slowly trying to like anytime he like trying to pill a pack where like they're looking at you and you're looking at them but you can't quite maintain the patience yeah and so visago begins

to rush it and sure enough it gets all big it's very good also new costumes they go undercover in some very funny costumes including a Zeb with a hood up or a weird hat the very tall hat is very good

it's like the hoodie version of the Governor Tua it is like the lowthal like cone head thing he's wearing the hoodie version of that it's good I love it works and Sabine new hair color this is the new Sabine season 40 design that they did not finish.

Wait, isn't it still purple-ish? It's a dark purple instead of what it was. This is an official note. This was the debut of the season for Sabine design. They did not have it in in time for, quote, the back-to-back plots of the Mandalorian and Saw Guerrera arcs meant Sabine did not have time to customize her season for a look. Now her hair has changed color for the rest of the season, but also all of the lead characters

get redesigns and only for their undercover mission. So we get our fourth Sabine I got to also say this is this is my favorite yeah I think Sabine looks great the insurance era is over the insurance era is over the like dark but purple still is here and I think she's good in these episodes I think they like let her like be they let her cook I have absolutely zero notes like on like on Sabine throughout these four episodes like not not not that there was like like parentheses positive positive like I think that she yeah she's just like she's she's competent she's her but she's also herself she like she still has that uh you know sort of uh you know pointed back and forth with

Ezra where she, you know, is she continues to give him shit, but, but did you know it's the change in them, though, where they will give each other shit for one beat less than they used to. Yes, that is exactly. Where like, they're calling each other out for a bad idea or something. And then the other would be like, no, I'm serious. Like, I actually believe in this thing. And they'll be like, okay, like, I'm going to back you up on this because we agree. And I actually think something is happening, which is, I think we're kind of getting young Canaan and Hera. by way of Ezra and Sabine.

We're getting them getting up to missions and hijinks and learning each other's rhythms and motions as a way of filling in the gaps metaphorically and emotionally as we turn up the heat on Hera and Canaan. I cannot believe the show was teasing us with the kiss so hard in these episodes. Am I supposed to believe they've never kissed before? I think you're supposed to believe that, Allie.

I really do. Or what I actually think maybe is happening here is, that they were a couple and they like put it to the side. Put it on pause. They put it on pause. And now it's because they don't look like they, when we do eventually see them kiss, this is not this episode.

They almost kissed in this episode, I think. They don't get to. There is a like, they're not like, oh my God, we kissed for the first time. They're like, they fucking kissed. Like they know what kissing is.

They've hooked up before. And they even know each other's motions and feelings, I think. But, yeah, I don't know. That's my, my read is, can you always say this shit,

like, you know where I, what I feel about this. Like, you know where I stand on this. Mm-hmm. Which is kind of funny, too,

because I think maybe in the background, what we haven't totally clocked is the relationship was fraying a little bit, uh, because we have, like, it's not that they, they break up. But now I think when I'm starting to pick up is that they did end up on a break,

partly because, you know, we have a kid now. Uh, so that, that, that kind of, uh,

you know, its thing, but also, remember, Canaan, when he was all in his feelings about being the Jedi master, was like, I need to really focus on all this Jedi shit and leaves her at the end of season two, two, right? I think that's right. To go deal with the, the, what do you call it? The inquisitors. And like that moment, to me, it didn't work for me because it was like, you see her being left

and she's devastated and it's like, he's going to be back in five minutes. This is rebels. Like, what are we doing here? But I think for her, actually, it was like, okay, you are cutting me out of the most important thing in your life right now. But he'd already been feeling kind of on edge because he didn't want to be a soldier. And she embraced. She's from a guerrilla family. Like she grew up as a partisan.

And she embraced military life in a way that was very off putting to him. And so, yeah, it does feel like now he is in this place where he's like, well, wait, hang on. what's with us now. Yeah. And she is fully like, you know, commander's in Dula. Well, and it's like, well, and his thing, I think, has consistently been like, wait a second, you know, I mean, the conversation they eventually have here is what do you want to do when this is all over?

And she has no answer yet, you know, and she's like, what about you? And he's like, you know how I feel. Like, I've been very clear, which is great. But I think that to some degree, it's like, I mean, what does he end up saying in one of these episodes is that like the path is coming uh god what was the exact crazy oh yes i loved that all paths are coming together now he's like yeah i looked ahead and you know we have all of the key items and i think we only have one dungeon left you know like i think it's time to do our final cut scenes um he can sense that you know the way as the force sometimes has this narrative energy to

he knows he knows what the deal is he knows he's in season four four um but i do think that there's something there that's like, okay, we have a base. We've connected to the rebellion. Ezra does not need us the way he needed us two seasons ago. What about us? It's okay for us to think about us, you know? Can we spend this back up? What's going on? I do. My, the, the, the somewhat cynical side of me feels like all of this talk of, what are we going to do when this is all over? Oh, yeah. is giving, like, we're doomed. Oh, no, he's flag. The death flag is, yeah, yeah.

Like, the icon is appeared, has appeared over, over, uh, canaan's head. He is not making it out of, how alive of this season. I'm convinced of it. Um, what's his last, what's his real last name? I know, I know, I know. When the wolf said that, I was like, first of all, I forgot what his real last name was. Which we know because of the comics. We know that already going.

into this because the comics had already come out and revealed that as a Patelon, he went by Caleb Doom, D-U-M-E instead of Canaan Jaris, that that's a fake name. I don't think we'd heard anyone in the show say that name. We did know that he wasn't, the Inquisitor once said, ah, that's what you're calling yourself now, the Grand Inquisitor, remember, when they fought, but yeah, we had not heard it yet, but the audience knew what his name was, Rob. What were you saying? You were setting up, yeah. And when they set up, Later, when the wolf spoke, I didn't know that, I forgot that it was his name. And so when the wolf spoke, I was like, that doesn't bode well for how things are shaping up.

Yeah. But yeah, I thought like, but my mind still went to Canaan because, yes, the same thing of like, well, what about when all this is over? I mean, we've all seen war movies. Yeah, dude. You know? Yes, we have. And as soon as I get home, I'm going to marry what's her face. And we're going to.

Sarah's waiting for me back at the farm. That's right. days away from retirement truly no it is it and especially because he is the one that is so like I'm ready for it I'm ready for what comes next I want that I want it now I'm like I feel like almost in a way of Hera was like you know what like should we just cut out early and like and and go you know get our got ourselves like our own little situation like maybe he he would take that opportunity, but I think given he is vocalizing how much he wants what happens next, it just, it's, you're, you're going to be dead.

You are toast. Also, every time he's doing it, he is trying to box her in a way I find, like, it's been happening consistently, even that like flirting over the phone, the previous episode, she was like, well, what's going on, that uncomfortable? Like, what conversation am I in? It happens again here a little bit, too, where. like she keeps being put on the spot by him in ways that I think is very like convincing as far as like relationships that's hit this juncture but also I'm like canaan dude we're on the miss

sucks are here yeah even if they weren't it's a kind of shitty way of you know if someone isn't going to have that conversation with you then they don't want to have that conversation with you and you can tell them how important it is to you and how you like listen I can't keep living like this. Something has to change. You can have that. But the sort of like, I'm just being kind of funny. Ha, ha, ha.

You know that conversation you don't want to have with me? I'm just bringing it up again. Just like, just conversationally. I'm not like telling me you need to have it with me right the second. But I am saying, you know, we've been talking around it. And that's like some really shitty passive aggressive shit, Caden. Come on. And like, yeah.

Meanwhile, like, Sabine and Ezra have fallen into a pretty decent, like, buddy rhythm. as they go on these on these adventures and it becomes sort of the natural like mission pairing at this point like you know Ezra is probably going to be like let me be the one to fast talk my way out of this or distract them while you're doing technical stuff it's good like it's it's fun uh I think the fact that they are trying not to force main character energy on her and let her like fade into part of the ensemble I think is is is is big here. I think the fact that they've stopped writing Ezra as like schoolboy crush around her has like given the whole thing a lot more room to breathe. Uh, having the Mandelor stuff done is good. Yeah.

It's way, Ezra's vibe towards her is way more just like general awkward teen. Like just being a teenager and like talking to someone that is not a teenager about your teenage friend. and knowing that they are going to, like, project or make assumptions about how you feel and your emotions being all over the place or whatever, like, teenagedom they're, you know, putting on you. And he's just, like, trying to get out in front of it.

I'm thinking back to last week's episode when he was saying, like, we're friends, or, like, we're together, but not, we're not together together. Like, we're just, we're here together as people who are here together. And like that to me upon reflecting, you know, on it is so much more like you, you guys are adults and we're teens or we're young adults and you're going to have your conceptions about how we relate to each other. But we know how we feel about each other in this like platonic way. We're teens. We're like immature and awkward sometimes. but like we were on the same page.

Me, me, Ezra, I'm Ezra, and Sabine. But, and I finally find it charming. Like, I find, like, I'm so glad to be in this position with both of them where I feel like they are good friends to each other and, you know, in a way that's not like totally... I don't know what the right word is, but just totally, I don't know, sterile maybe. Like, I think that there is still, like, they still have a bit of, like, cheekiness and, and immaturity with each other.

They're not, like, totally, you know. No, that's good because there are times where, like, when the writer of a show are, like, time to shut down a relationship, like, thing that maybe we were setting up, they will overcorrect and be like, let's scorch the earth here. in, but now the relationship, like, doesn't have any momentum in any direction. And this does have this feeling of like, oh, that's a friendship that is growing, more than like a partnership, uh, that is, that is deepening and growing. And that actually in a weird way moves the possibility of relationship back into the realm of consideration. Yeah. But the fact

that they aren't touching it means that it, it's actually like the idea of it would work better, but it's going to work better the longer they don't touch it. That's right. Is the, totally the funny thing. Um, But, like, long term, I think to meet the parents, uh, like, you know, she, she had an artist dad and, uh, like, I, I think that's still on. And I still think it's a great idea for Star Wars spinoff. It's basically everybody loves Raymond. Basically. Yeah, but it's sort of Mandalorian art dad. Yeah. Yeah. Um, the, the other thing that's working long term here for me is the beginning of this episode, boy, I would be getting so frustrated with Mon Mothma. This is, they're like really hitting. the thing of Mon Mothma being like, well, it's just not, it's just not, I guess this was, this was actually Heron and Canaan, wasn't it? Being like, well, it's just not time to, to go back. And Ezra getting fed up, but not in a way that feels immature. The thing that he's, he's

really zeroed in on this, not just a bit about promising rider, which we talked about before, and Rob, you just brought back up, but he's like, it's never in the briefings anymore. No one even mentions it, right? Like, we are, we are pretending like this shit that's happening isn't happening, and it's getting under his skin. And then similarly, towards the end of one of these episodes, he again says, I think it's the end of this episode, Saul said it, I didn't want to believe it, Lothal's gone, we've already lost. Which is, he's wrong in terms of we've already lost. That's going to be what this whole season seems to be about, is how do we save this despite the terrible condition it's in? But Ezra as a prospective character, and I'm thinking

truly, even as a prospective character for young viewers, to think about the rebellion as and not, you know, it's probably still unalloyed good, but it's not perfect in the way it's being run day to day. Or you can agree with the rebellion and then still have some criticisms or some feelings at least about how leadership is handling and directing it. Or maybe you can come out the other side and be like, you know, Ezra's feelings and stuff are really important, but they really couldn't give the resources they needed until they found out about the Thai Defender Elite and da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, I think that there's a lot to chew on here for a young reader, young viewer, who

is actually trying to get into the heads and thinking about how do you tell military stories, how do you tell stories about rebellion, how do they know stories about authority and about hierarchy and about someone who wants something and is justified in wanting the thing, but there being real complications around wanting that thing, you know, stories for young people across all sorts of genre spaces can get to this point. But I think they use the particular aspects of a Star Wars story to tell it really well. And I've been happy to see that Mon Mothma keep showing up, Bail keep showing up, Dada keep showing up, those characters as a sort of on-screen authority,

an on-screen sort of back home. You know, it reminds me of, I just played some Going Rogue, the game that we played on the show a couple of, like a year or two ago, whenever that was when Andor was coming out. And that has this idea of the like the parliamented back home watching in, you know, the kind of leader of the liberation, the political leaders of the liberation watching in and having certain sort of visions of it. And I think that this hits that so well where it's like, listen, like there's some all the ground stuff here that I really care about. I, you're not letting me off the leash. And that can be really frustrating,

even though it can also be really grounded in particular needs. And I think they're just telling that story really well. So, you know, and again, it feels Star Warsy. It does not feel that dissimilar from the stuff across the prequels, the original movies, even the sequels around, hey, I have to go do X, but people who are in charge are telling me it's a bad idea for reasons, you know, ABC. And like, that's, that is a big Star Wars plot line and it's being done well here. So, agreed. I also love the shit out of the taken over bar. Yeah. There's, there's multiple things I love here. First of all, the whole notion of like, they wouldn't mess with old Joe's. And, oh, my friend, they will.

Yeah, and specifically they won't mess with everything. Because the people would finally step up. If they did something to old Joe, people would revolt. Nah. This is why Andrew had to kill those guys. That is what I'm saying. He looked you guys into your bar and it's over. That's right.

That's exactly right. You got to get them out of your bar. They took him away and executed him. And then they gave the bar to this Imperial Pilot. The thing I love about this is, One, the empire also has a fail-sum problem, which is like they are, as Thrawn has sort of revealed to us, there's all this dead wood in the empire. And where do you put it? The whole deal is that like, like, here in reality, right, if you're an unemployable white supremacist piece of shit, you can always go work for ICE or Customs and Border Patrol.

That might be the only place you can have a good career. that's all you're fit for and any sort of like regime like this has where do we put our biggest but least competent pieces of shit. Yeah. And the empire has this problem because they kept like interdictors have been lost

because like people who are provably incompetent continue to rise or you just can't what do I do with this person? Hell I worked at companies where it's like this person's not working out. Well we're not going to give you a requisition to replace them. So

Yeah, you either have one less hand or, yeah, exactly. Oh, this person is like, this person isn't showing up to work until 4 p.m. 3 days a week. Okay, well, good luck with that because, yeah, sure, we could put them on a performance plan. And if they don't get better, eventually they don't get let go. But it doesn't mean you'll get to replace them. Yeah, and that is. And so the next thing you know, like, hey, why did the blockade fail here?

Because that person that, like, we wanted to move the fuck out of here is still here. and you can't like where are you going to put them on so the empire found was like this well-connected washout bad as a pilot who you know which we talked about before this sort of like fighter pilot uh supremacy thing right that like there's a sort of cavalry style um baron van ricktoffin that's right like we remember that hit but also like in star wars expanding universe the greatest imperial ace is baron soon tier fell yep uh-huh uh who in this weird subplot that has ever fully explained is also somehow Wedgantilly's brother-in-law. Yeah.

But like no, like there's no story that fully looks at this and explains what the fuck is going on there. Anyway, point is. Yeah. This guy's not Soonteerfell. He's like, he's like, soon to your fell is wario. But he's like after being pantsed basically by Ezra. Yeah, this was in one of the shorts for people who don't remember.

The Ezra short, wasn't it? Also in, yes, it was that in the short. And then in the, uh, in the, uh, Jogun fruit, marketplace, like debacle. That's also him, I think.

Yeah, okay, sure. Oh my God. So he's now been washed out of the fighter program, but they didn't tell him, like,

get lost, you worthless sack of crap. They gave him this bar they took over. And he actually seems like he's enjoying it. Yeah. And isn't, and the thing I love about

this characterization, he doesn't seem like, oh I love the empire executing all these dissidents he's like man it sucks old Joe like people liked him you hear he was great but you know

what are you gonna do with traitors anyway what can I get you to drink yeah guy likes running a bar and he's happy to take it if the empire's gonna shoot the owner and give it to him but like if the empire didn't do that

you get the sense he'd be fine if they didn't like it's just fascism he's just gonna go along in the carried along by the current of the stream It was just natural that old Joe get executed with a shot in the back of the head and then you get his bar.

That's just the way the world works sometimes, you know? If he hadn't been a traitor, it wouldn't happen. He's been entrusted. He explicitly says, I've been entrusted to run it. Ugh. Well, but that is so funny because, like, that is like the Imperial CEO is like, okay, basically it needs to be an officer's club now. We can't shut down the bar. Like the troops are going to lose their mind.

If there's not a bar, it's got to be our bar. this kid the fighter squadron guy who's now a real ass elite pilot the guy who's taken over the fighter group here doesn't want this guy around

so it's like I don't know great because Volt Scaris is here the guy from the Sabine Imperial Academy episode he ends up being the test pilot of the Tide Defender this guy has been moved into food prep

out of being a fighter pilot and he doesn't know he's been demoted like that is that is organizational Jujit Z that's that's That might be that that that ace pilot, that Imperial Fighter Ace, oh, that guy, that guy is an ace at every part of the game. I also love, of course, we've gotten our major key, major key alert. The major key version of the Imperial March is playing in there, which we first heard on Empire Day in season one or two.

Love it. I love that you go in there and the worst music of all time is playing. Bangor. And our other friend is here, whose name I've already forgotten. but the Jai Kel One more time The homie Jai Kel

Right Jai Kel is here everybody It's so funny That on the Patreon episode We were just talking about The other dude From that arc Who they set up

What did it was him? I wish it was him here The world will never know I guess I guess we'll never know Actually you know what I think Rebels is making a profound point About the disappeared That are left in the wake

Of every authoritarian regime Makes you think This isn't an abandoned plot point. No. This guy whose name we don't remember and his sister. That's like there are unknown soldiers. It was Leonis. Something Leonis.

Zeb. Nope, not Zeb. That's not a Zer. Zer. Zer. Zer Leonis. Yeah, he's not coming back, by the way.

I've checked. I don't think he's going to be in. Maybe he'll be in one more episode. He might be in one more episode. Let me see if that's, I can't remember if it was one or none. I think it might be none. Return to Lothal. Like, we're picking up all these plot beats.

We have the, guy from the shorts like no no he never he never comes back we get jai kell instead who is who was i think the regular like the guy who is really in it to be an to be a stormtrooper or whatever but in the end he like gets caught up in their escape and then gets like lightly radicalized or whatever you know i don't quite remember his deal but yeah okay he's hanging out the bar now he's old enough to drink right And he does rescue them when they're so shaken by everything. They leave without paying, which is like incredibly relatable.

Like they get through the conversation and they're like, oh, let's just, let's just get out of here. And nobody picks up the tab. And he helps get them out of there. And then right into the middle of a car chase because Zeb and Kane and Hera have found the speeders that the rebel group had. they start to make their escape but they're cut off by a bunch of imperial troops who were there in the city and they have to flee to the sewers

the rest of this is like you know it's it's a sewer chase it's good we see the imperial probe droids they're cool they're cool they're hard to bring down um I thought it was I mean they

made a point to show that Sabine's art is being used, you know, across the gap. Like, specifically it was Sabine's symbol that allowed the crew down in the sewers to find a way out. There were like a series of symbols pointing the way to another escape path when they get pinched in a bit of. in a bit of a pickle situation. Sorry, I just remember something important about Jicel. Did everybody pick up who the voice actor is?

Yeah, Zuko. It's Zucco. Dante Bosco, Zucco is here from Avatar. Zucco is here. Yeah. I feel like Zucco has been here before. Before. I think so, too. I feel like he's maybe been in the Clone Wars. He's maybe been...

Didn't they like that actor so much? They basically created Zucco, too, for Cora. Oh, is he in? Oh, yeah, there is a Zuko, too. Who is he in Kora? It's, uh, it's, uh, I've watched Kora and I still don't remember. That's bad.

It's, oh, yeah, Ruf, no. Oh, he plays Ero, who is the then, like a different ear, not the Ero from Avatar. Yes, General Ero the second. Yes, exactly that. Who I think is the kid of, of, uh, so literally.

They were just like granduncle. We all loved Zucco. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Let him cook. I guess he's, I guess he's not in, yeah, he's, he's goaded. Is he not in more of, uh, Clone Wars? Clone Wars, no.

I don't think so. He's just in, he's just Jicel per Wikipedia. Anyway. Yeah, they, they get the, all the stuff in the dungeon, or the dungeon, the sewer is phone. It's kind of a dungeon. It kind of is. It, like, it's, it's one of those old dungeon crawlers. Yeah.

Like, click left Turn 90 degrees I see 15 minutes ago So, you know, I get it It's one of those for sure I've been there Yeah, it's good It's the they get their escape

This is like, again, part of the thing that I like about this This set of episodes The pacing in this is just set up We basically just get set up I feel like we haven't gotten to have A 21 minute set up episode In a long ass time

You know? Yeah Um Yeah It's really good. It's also good to be with Ezra as he's returning to Lothal for the first time. And he's been hearing this. Yeah.

Yeah, there's the wanted posters for the Phoenix Squadron everywhere, the like imperial propaganda everywhere. You know, he has this moment where he's like, Lothal's gone. It's already been lost. And I think for him to have that low after hearing, not only hearing the call in his head, but also having, you know, this recurring desire, I want to go back to Lothal. I've made this promuless.

That's my home. This has not left Ezra's mind, you know, Lothal's strife since season one, since he initially left. The whole reason he got into this whole gig was to be able to help Lethal in some way, shape, or form. And I think it's good to get that character beat from Ezra here where he's, like, he worries that it could be too late for, you know,

that there could be nothing to do. And then it's, it's Lothal that gets to kind of answer that question to him. It's, as we'll see in the next episode, the creatures of, that, like, speak to Ezra and kind of rein him back into, oh, no, there is a way out of this situation, which I really, really liked. And we can get more into that in the next episode. One other thing before we get there, I just want to shout out the, you know, one of the things we talk about a lot is, you know, or least we bring it up a lot is, yeah, Canaan's blind, but because of the way the force is written for him, he's effectively

not blind. But we get a sequence here where that's not true, where, and it's also aligned with our bigger conversation about Canaan and Hera. There's a conversation while they're undercover just in the city, you know, in an alleyway somewhere. And they're both, which is, which is great, because again, it's that little vision of, well, what if we weren't here necessarily, you know? And he says, like, it's been a while since we were alone like this. And, and, you know, he takes a beat and he's like, I wish I could see you. And she says, of course, she removes the sort of like blind, like the glasses or whatever, the sort of like, I think he's wearing glasses there and not the normal blindfold. And she says, you could always see me, which is like, good. It's fun. It's, it's, it's, it's, I love them. But also it is like, oh, right. Like, this is a character who has lost his sight, who is dealing with that still. And, you know, the show is not good at that necessarily in the action sequences. But it's a good reminder that there are capacities he does not have anymore that he still, that he longs for, that there was something, there was something that changed in the way he has to move through the world. And this is,

one of the ways that he hasn't made peace with yet, you know? So, yeah, way to remember that you did this, that you did this in the past, that the character is blind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, speaking of the Legend of Corr and things not sticking. Anyway, um,

any other stuff in the same? Flight as a Defender? Yeah, there's just not much here to like stick with because of how it moves. So, oh, I guess one thing. Characters who are not getting any fucking screen time together yet this season. Zeb and Katz. I know. That's maybe the one thing.

The show is overstuffed. It is. And I think some characters are suffering from that. Like, I think the team on Lothal's like borderline unvely big. It's right on the edge. Yeah. And they had to bench Callis and Rex for the opening of this where it's like, I'm trusting the ghost to you.

And they have a little bickering over, well, who did she mean is in charge of the ghost? And Callis is like, I've commanded Star Destroyers. and Rex is like that's the point Yeah dude That's why you don't get to command the ghost You know Yeah

I and Zeb is like barely A character on Lethal Like Zeb is is comic relief Who hates things Yeah Guy who steps into the scene He goes I hate blathers He's grumpy guy

I hate computers I hate puff pigs And they haven't allowed Callis and Zeb To be together Dude is killing me Like they're even giving them a minute To like hang out

and be like, sup, been a minute. They've not said a word. They saw, they, they, they went on the forums. They saw, they saw what we were saying. We weren't there. But if we were there, they would have seen us there. They knew they had gas, but they were afraid of the heat, you know? They did not want to turn it up.

Couldn't cook the dish. They couldn't cook the dish. It's like they're afraid. Do you know what I mean? It's like they were like, oh, fuck. The reason we kept callous is partly because of how good he is with other characters and especially Zeb. But like, how do we, how do we do that? Because remember the genocide? Yeah, we had him apologize. We had him say it wasn't really his fault, I guess.

But I hope we get it. I hope we're like, I don't think it's the genocide thing stopping him. No. Yeah. I mean, I mean it's the gay thing. I think it's probably the gay and the racial overtones. Yeah, you're probably right. Yeah. Anyway, that's the occupation. Sorry, we're going to say. Wait, I was going to say one last thing. What did we think of the rare reference to Rex being a clone joke that happened between Rex and Zeb? Where I think it's, I forget what the context is, but I know that Rex says to, oh, oh, it's the puffer, yeah, yeah, yeah, the puffer pigs are, like, scared of Zeb because whatever. Of his face, because they don't like his face. Yeah, his face is scary.

And Rex is like, or Zeb is like complaining to Rex and is like, you know, these puffer pigs, they just, they keep freaking out when they see my face. And Rex says to him, at least you have a unique face. And Zeb, like, caught off guard is like, what is that clone humor? And it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's, it's so rare that we get, and we get a reference to. being a clone. I mean, we've had, you know, an episode here and there where he talks about his past and stuff.

But even, like, daily, what is, like, the banal things about being a clone or, like, the more mundane? Yeah, this, not that having the same exact face as other people's, thousands of other people is mundane, but in his sort of treatment of it in this moment, he's kind he it's like this throwaway kind of complaint for him that is so so interesting and yeah i think the earlier parts of the show and this comes back to this this crew being a little

overstuffed and them needing to sideline rex and callus they did it though they sideline rex and callus instead of trying to like and they did it on screen they gave a reason for why they're not there they let them each get some jokes in with various other characters and a few other bits, not all the way to hijinks, but like a couple of lines. And then they took them up screen and said, okay, they're going to be busy for the next few episodes, doing this other thing. And that's awesome. You know, like the show previously, I think a lot about them, the episode where, I think it was the Trials of Dark Sabre, where Faloni talked about, you know, we realized we didn't need to do a B plot. It was okay for us not to do a B plot here.

And there's a little bit of a B plot here around Heron and Canaan talking to each other, you know, but it's very little. Mostly, we're getting to Lothal, we're learning about what's happening here, and they're set up instead. There's the time that would be given to an explicit B plot is instead given to, okay, what is the situation,

what's happening on Yavin IV, why are Callos and Rex not going to come along, and what are the stakes beyond, you know, what are the stakes for Ezra's relationship to the rebellion and, and, et cetera. And I think that's just like,

they're getting better at shaping the show, and the show in some ways is lining itself up to be shaped better because of the circumstances the circumstances of the show at this point, right? Totally. The occupation.

That's the occupation. And now on to Flight of the Defender, which opens on Zeb, Sabine, and Ezra staking out the fighter base on Lothal along with a bunch of lof cats harassing them. I watched this episode while just shoving treats in the Tilly's mouth

because she kept activating on every single, every time I thought surely they're done with the loath cat. Wrong episode for that. They're never going to be done with the loath cats.

Also, the fighter base sure looks like the one from the short yet again. Yet again. Where Sabine was like going over the little like barriers that they put up, the temporary barriers

and blowing up Thai fighters it looks like the same sort of base. Anyway, the gang sees enough to suspect that the Thai defender is about to start mass production. Ezra and Sabine sneak into steal its data recorder, aided by the storm

trooper distracting antics of the loathcats. But they have chosen a day where Thrawn and Governor Price are here for a demonstration. Sabine asks Ezra to buy her time to steal the data recorder from the defender, but he gets hypnotized by a lone white wolf regarding him wisely from the distance, which probably reminded him of how good fantastic Mr. Fox is, and how the coyote and collateral would have been an all-time Michael Mann moment if man had just picked different music for it. Anyway, while he's thinking of all that,

prized by an imperial and starts a brawl with the garrison by accident and has this sort of sup admiral thron moment as we always knew they would uh ezra and sabine end up stealing the defender to make their escape strafing the base for good measure while thron remembers how cool it was in patten when george c scott coolly opens fire on a strafing messerschmitt with his pistol thron pulls the same move while the base is leveled around him sabine realizes the defender's hyper drive is their key to getting off Lothal and starts stripping it out of the ship while Ezra dogfights tie interceptors and wipes the floor with them while also sending Sabine wiping every surface of the defender as she is tossed around by their aerial maneuvering.

This proves to Thron the defender is as good as promised because if it can make a mediocrity like Ezra and Ace, it'll make the empire unbeatable. With that, they activate the kill switch aboard the defender, sending it into a crash landing and forcing Ezra and Sabine to hike back to base with a massive hyperdrive carry between them. They eventually stash it in some rocks, guided by the White Lothcat that we saw back when they first encountered Ryder, and apparently only Ezra can see it. A moment later, the White Wolf appears and puts Sabine into a deep slumber, then wicks both the kids away from Imperial Patrols, leaving them for Hera and Cana to pick up before giving Ezra a message of a single word, Doom. Which is not like Doom, as in

like a dark well maybe it is ambiguous maybe it's just maybe it's just can't's old name maybe the wolf just likes the doom 2016 you know the game you know it's like that's cool timing lines up those demons yeah totally yeah

there's also some stuff back at the base but like I can't really remember much of it it's like it's all but the Tide Offender it's really all about the Tide Offender and and Ezra and Sabine right yeah what is happening back at base that's it's more i think they're just like we can't get off this planet

because the uwing doesn't i think that's where they establish the uing doesn't have a hyperdrive so they're kind of screwed and and and should we be afraid about about esra and sabine or do they got this you know a lot of they do got this and they do got this the music that hits when thron shows up that whole sequence is an all-timer they're cooking they are really doing it right now. Especially because they are slamming together. Thrawn is still Thrawn. Yeah. But you have the absurdity of Ezra's pratfalls in the background of like a

throne sequence in a way that actually does kind of land. Like the biggest badass of the empire has shown up. And he is catching the rebels basically in a state of like organizational undress. Like this, this operation is falling completely apart, almost without him. touching it. You know what I mean? It's just like he's just standing there watching them completely come on done. It doesn't make Thron less impressive. And it doesn't, it's not annoying. It's just kind of it's that this is how this is the dynamic. Ezra and Sabine sort of fail forward in their various schemes. And Thron is unflappable. That is exactly the note that

I have. I literally say, bro, Thron is unflaffable. It is it is one of the most fun showings for Throne, and also it's the moment that I've gone back to us, to the one we've talked about before. Is Thron, is, is, is, is thron sabotaging the empire? This is the most, he is in such, let's see how this plays out. It is chaotic. He is like, uh, the David, the fast bender robot in Proletias. He is. Where it's just like, I could help or, oh, why don't you just, they're all that again.

You do have a kill switch on the Tide defender that would make it crash instead of potentially harming more of our forces. But let's see what happens. Send three more of our pilots out. We'll just see what happens. And then later he reveals that he knows that if Hara had been the one piloting the ship, which it could have been because he knows there's someone else in there. He's just not sure who it is. She would have killed his people instantly, basically. And he would have been fine with that effectively, right?

Because he still has learned something. He is Harris number one fan. Oh, 100%. Like Haring's a fan club for sure. The, like, absolute, like, everyone shut the fuck up. Harrah is flying, energy. He has whatever, like, in proximity to Hera doing stuff. It's like when two racing teams, like when someone who, like, runs a racing team really

wants a driver for their team from the other side, you know? It's like a deep. I like a, it's more than a respect. It's like an obsession. It's wild. I mean, even the fact that he, he's able to instantly, everyone's, the Jedi is here. And he's like, Ezra Bridger, and it's like, oh, right, because you have the trading card, right? You've been, like, keeping up on the stats.

You know how many triple doubles he has. Like, that is really the vibe between, between Thron and these rebels, which is fun. It's a fun relationship to have. In contrast to the sort of, like, abstract ominous evil of the Inquisitors in season two, for instance, you know? Inquisition season one, I think, was a little more interesting in some places because of the assumed relationship between him and Canaan that we didn't really understand. And now we kind of understand that he knew Canaan when Canaan was a kid at the academy or whatever. But like this is the best it's been, I think, in terms of there being a consistent

like foil and villain for them. Yeah. And the fact that Thron really knows who they are, it's not just that they're rebels and that is the opposition to the empire. It is like these specific people. I love that he, like, zeroes in on, on Ezra when, when, uh, Ezra's flying the ship or has a command of it and is like, well, if Ezra can handle, what is it that he says? Like, if Ezra can handle, uh, oh, yeah, if, if, if Ezra Bridger, um, can fly this, it means like anyone can pilot the ship and it'll do.

It'll do good against... He calls him mediocre at one point, you know? Yeah, he's like, if a mediocre pilot like Ezra Bridger can do as much damage as he did with the defender, then we should be in a good position and start rolling these out everywhere. It's interesting to me that he... For him to know each person's weaknesses and not just in a like... Not just in a, like, like, Pokemon super effective, you know, way. Do you know what I mean?

It's not, it's not like too video gamey where it's like, this is Ezra's character build. It feels a little bit more gathered over time than defined. Or, like, I am just writing you off to be this archetype, this person, this character stat, build or whatever. So them making a reference to the movie Patton actually that makes more sense in this in the standpoint because one of the framing devices of Patton is that there's like this German officer who's like building a profile of Patton through the movie. At like Rommel's request and it's like tell me everything about this new American general

who's such a badass and as he's sort of researching him he's just like the more I learned about the more incredible he is. He's just the most awesome general like ever and the Americans don't appreciate what they've got. Patton's an awesome movie totally historical in like every respect but like awesome movie point is I think there's a similar thing here where like Thron loves watching this gang work

it's also a little bit of like Detective Vincent Hanna in heat where it's like this crew is good just loves the game it's so funny yeah yeah and then another thing here is just the there's a real I like Sabine's stuff here.

This is where I took the note that I was like, oh, wait. Like, Sabine is, like, being rendered as a complete character for the first time in a little while. She has expertise is. She has impulses, which I think is important. She's like, no, we're going to, like, call an audible on this because we have an opportunity. There's the bit where I'm like, or where she takes off and I'm like, oh, they're just going to fucking fly away with this thing. They should destroy this place and shoot Thron.

And then she tries to. She blows up a bunch of the ties, and then she does a strafing run on Thron? And does she miss? Yes, because Thrawn is protected by plot armor and badassery. You know, she was shooting where she was shooting where she was sure he was going to dodge to. I'm sure if he had tried to run for cover, he'd be toast. But he, like, stood his ground and aimed up to her. Okay.

So can I actually like give my actual theory here? Please. So fighter, like fighter guns. Yes. Are zeroed. for long ranges. Sure. Yes.

And so like you'll put the, you'll put the crosshair on something, but the ranges where you'd see a single person. By the time you put the cross hair on them, the shot spread is going to be too far apart, which is why that happens. Yeah. Now,

I don't think that's why they did it. I think they're just mimicking the shot in Patton, but that is like that is an issue, which is like a certain ranges. The bullets don't go where you think. No. Yeah. She should have done another pass.

This shit should be done. if only if only she'd stumbled into the missile screen the way Ezra did uh that might have that might have changed the course of history right there but she does they would have Yamamotoed his ass oh 100 but the thing is that she at least tried it is the thing and then i was like oh good yeah she does you know you watch a cartoon sometimes you're like characters obviously aren't doing this because it would end the whole thing and then she does it's like all right good i'm glad it didn't it didn't of course kill the guy but that's still sabine should know to do that so that's what she was trained to do you know there's another

So you're saying, like, the way Sabine works here, you've used the analogy before of like, and a lot of shows operate this way, which is sometimes the other sense of like an RPG system driving the action. Yeah. A lot of times where Sabine is least satisfying is it's like someone being like, what, my character has expertise in this. So obviously, like, I know all about this. And I'm going to dump all my like, oh, good. I rolled like a 50 on this. So like, and it's like fine.

And yeah, it turns out you actually know everything about this. You built the best grader. Congratulations. You know, you were at the Imperial Junior, like, Master Academy and you nailed it. Even for extra credit. Let me just throw this, like, source material. Fuck aside. Who cares?

I'll just scratch this expository character. No, Sabine, fill everyone in. Oh, you know how it works too. Great. Cool. Here, what is cool about the way she's working is like, it's this process of, she's a good engineer. She's like, all right, I'm here to steal the Navi computer.

And you get more of a sense. sense of like, hey, wait a second, while I'm in here, do I notice anything else? Yeah. Well, the Navi computer implies a hyperdrow. Oh, could we strip that out? And so we have her continuing to up the stakes of the heist by getting, she's very competent here. But she's also tunnel visioning on like a mission creep series of like, they come in, just steal the recorder, we'll figure the rest out. Yeah. And she's like, well, I don't want to just, we don't have, why settle for the recorder. We could also, and it's like she keeps upping the stakes until now they have no choice but to get away in this

huge fashion. And then she's like, Ezra, you pilot, I'm going to continue stripping this fighter around you. And like having key realizations to shade too late. It's fantastic. It's great. It's so good. It's like it it speaks to the fact that she's not like a fully mature like Mandalorian Super Soldier you know

like she's still making decisions on the fly and like and is they're not all the cleanest decisions but they do have meaningful like they are meaningful efforts

that will make big differences the fact that she gets the hyper drive is a huge you know it's a huge win for the rebels here in being able to get the mess message out of Lethal to Rebel Command that, you know, that this, the analysis of the

defender or whatever, because isn't it that they were missing a hyperdrive? So they needed, they needed to be able to like zoom something out. Yeah. And we can even get as they're being like, this idea went from good to great in response to, which is like, it's not necessarily a great idea. But I like that he thinks it is. You know what I mean? Because he would do something like that too. Like he is the type of person to also improvise on a mission. He does it all the time. All the time. Like last last episode, a podcast episode when they were on the on the satellite together and he's like takes up the phone and is like, let me just improvise here and I'll pretend to be whatever that

that dude's name is and it totally breaks bad like that's what I love about them getting to be partners because they're they have similar impulsive natures but you know they're it's just

it's good to see them be be fun part be a fun duo uh Allie you had something yeah I attach to this I think the like strength of this episode for me and like these interactions that we get are like the intersection between kids and

adults like I was trying to find a way to talk about and I was like this feels like Gundam wing to me and it was like with Governor Price and Throne coming onto the scene and having this like big like trays is here and he's in this fancy uniform and he like it doesn't make sense that he is in the same show as as these kids and like Ezra is in the background doing funny hijinks and, like, even just the interaction between Zeb and Ryder and Ezra and Sabine as being like, no, we're going to make this big, you know, immature risk, but you guys go home and go back to the base with the, like, bare minimum of stuff that you were satisfied with. Like, just like everybody kind of falling into their roles in that way was really interesting

to me and, like, really highlights what is enjoyable about seeing Sabine and Ezra, like, in lockstep here. Yeah. And it is interesting because the part of the thing that kind of happens in a lot of sort of genre stories about multi-generational things like this is you have young people who are either. There's like kind of two types of young people. There's young people liability and young people, the action hero, the star who's going to like do the thing. And we've seen that shift now completely, right? Ezra was was the liability for a long time. We've gotten Sabina's liability a little bit, especially in connection to her past and when she gets, you know, caught up in all of that stuff sometimes. It's been trouble for the group. She kind of stopped being that along the way. Asra continued to be kind of, you know, like a little boy every once in a while. But here, they've moved all the way into that. And now that means they can tell the other half of that story, which is the adults are too afraid to take action or the adults are too caught in their old ways. They can't see out, see out of the box. They only remember how things went when they did it. Or they're distracted by their interpersonal. middle-aged lives, which is my favorite thing I've said a billion times about Cora, and it's happening here where, like, finally we're getting the hair and Canaan stuff, because they have, they have the perspective for that to matter to them more than the mission at hand, or as much as the mission at hand, finally. It's just a great, it's a great setup. And it's, it's so funny because

it's like, this is what Rebels was from the jump. This is what Season 1 Rebels was doing. That was the kind of set up with the group. And it just feels like they got away from it a little bit in season, in season three, I think, especially for us. But glad to be back on that. And then, like, let's get the hyperdrive out of here playing. It's so funny because it's like, all right, well, now what? It's a big ass. It's huge, you know? It's like a big thing that they can barely lift. And that's just a funny comedy beat for them, too, you know? It's good. It's, part of their dynamic, the fun of it, too, is like the, the shooter shoot of it all. Just like them encouraging each other to take like just wild shots and like is this it definitely feels

like coach isn't watching anymore so it's like I don't know what's run what plays do you want to run yeah and neither of them is actually like good enough necessarily or like far enough along to make these plays all like work but they're going to just be like but they're great natural talent yeah yeah yeah they're getting by on pure it's like that's these where the eagles were complete trash but they kept winning games on raw talent and luck for 10 games and then he's completely fell apart who is the player who he's turned around celebrating as he thinks the basket the ball is draining through the hoop but instead it's rimming out behind him but he's got the like like it's iconic picture yeah yeah yeah yeah who was that is that um but they both have

that energy oh my god of like I'm him I'm him yeah exactly ball's just like like bouncing out of it, bouncing out of the hoop. Anyway, I don't remember who it is. It's going to kill me, but. So as the podcast's resident expert on the Tide Defender, I feel like this is an amalgamation. Well, it's explicitly not just the Tye Defender, right? Is it comboed up with the stealth ships from Rebel Assault?

Oh, it might be. From Rebel Assault 2. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's like that whole. More rumor lean. That's right. Rebel Assault 2.

Rebel Assault 1, for people who don't know, was a CD-ROM game that was all animated in kind of a like, you know, it kind of looked like the cut scenes in a LucasArts adventure game. People should look up Rebel Assault. It was like you ran movie footage. Basically, yeah. In the background. Then you played a light gun shooter. Yeah. It's almost like playing Dragon's Lair or something, but instead of being a guy walking

around into scenes, you were playing a shooter, like a space shooter. But there was a lot of just like you're on the track and you're just aiming around and they kind of, you can kind of move your view around, but that's kind of it. You're not like piloting, piloting. And then they also did that with like on foot sections that were not great. and there were some like character animation that was like interesting but not really good it was fine I have fondness for that game is that why do the people like faces move as if it's like one of those Instagram filters where you put like the funny face and you just see the

eyes oh they're clutch cargo yeah now let me show you rebel assault two the difference between these two games is I played the first one on the Sega CD and I played the second one on like the PS1 I think. Rebel Salt 2. Oh yeah, that's live footage. It's the same type of game. You're still not controlling a ship in the traditional way, but it's all live footage, including the on-foot stuff where you have a guy like facing, you know, up against a pillar behind cover and then spinning out it's like mortal combat if moral combat was a third person shooter you know um this is incredible it's so wild i i really love this game it's so sick this game had a stealth fighter a stealth a tie to tie but i don't remember what it was called what was the actual name of it do you remember

rob i can't no i can't it was a tie phantom is what it was it was the tie phantom which has a little of this design. That, it looked like this, which is a sort of three-winged design. But it's not really the tie defender look either. And the thing that's fucking me up, Rob, is I don't remember the tie defender looking like this at all. But I, but maybe if you look at it from behind, it does, but you never, but the thing is they didn't have the big interceptor style dagger wings. That's what it is. That's the visual difference. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think that they have just, or it's like the wing positioning or something feels different. I don't know. I like the tie defender. This is a specific tie defender elite model that I think has like some, I think it has the red wings around the side of it.

And importantly, it does the thing that the Thai Defender Toy did, which is its wings can pop off. It has the kill mode in it that, like, makes it crash. That was the Kenner Toy version in the 90s. You could pop the wings off of it as you played with it. And so they just made that a thing Thron can do by hitting a button, which is very funny. Yeah. I don't necessarily love the design. this ship, I will say. I think there is a lot going on. But I do like seeing it do its action stuff.

Maybe that's why Thron is letting it get sabotage. Yeah, he's like the aesthetics are not up to snuff. I prefer more sleek design. That's good. Thron gets really in minimalism. He's just like, should be a wing. It should be a single wing. Yeah, with a jet in the back and a full complement of proton torpedoes. I need to go shopping. Man, Ezra doesn't, he doesn't believe in holding on your high explosives. He's like, use them all. Why not?

Use them all. He's like, if I need more, the level designer will drop them in. That's right. I'll loot them from my enemies. Yeah, and he does a great job. It's fun to see him fight. Yeah. And it's, it's fun to see, you know, the other thing we're getting here is like consistent

villains, Governor Price is. Fun to have around. She's no Minister Tua, but, which I'll have a note. I'll have a Tua note in just a second, actually. Tua update. I really she was too pure for the show. It's canon that Calus is eventually put to death for filling Minister Tua.

They were actually just saving us from any, any talk Tua jokes that we could have made along the way. Oh, my God. You're right. Um, they saw somebody got a prophecy and they said, there's going to be this thing called talk to a, and, and you're going to need to get out. I mean, that's, maybe that's, you know, maybe somebody shouldn't talk to a, I wish someone would come set me off with a rugpole meme coin. The thing that I'm going to tell you about in a moment is to, uh, to his great warning that

we have forgotten and is now relevant again. And so, which we'll all explain when we get there, but maybe the real warning she was giving us was with her name was what the future held, you know? Wait, what was the wording? Wasn't it just like, Throne is goaded? No, it was pre-thron. This is, this is, this is, you know, we just tell you what it is when Vader showed up, yeah. She says there's some, she's trying to convince them to rescue her. Old Joe calls them, and it's like, I have a, I don't talk, I'm an authoritarian. I don't talk like this. You know, there's someone here to need your help. And it turns out to be two.

And everyone's like, ah, fuck off actually. I can tell you where there are other rebel cells to help you out. And I can tell you even where there are all four-world people. I can give you information about the empire. Everyone's like, we have information about the empire. We do not need you. And she says, there's something else. I've discovered the true reason the empire came to Lothal.

And Hara's like, we know about the factories. We know you're making weapons here and are like digging up all the resources. D. And she says, no, there's another reason known only to a few and ordered by the emperor himself. And now, we've been to... Big Red Minister Tua into the Death Star? No, it's not the Death Star. It's the shit we see here. It's the Lothwolf shit. No, it's the weird force shit that's happening on this planet. That's why the Emperor is involved. We're getting into some shit. Well, you don't have to get it because Star Wars.com says, the spiritual secrets locked within Lothal,

which are hinted at in this episode by the mysterious abilities of the Loth Wolves, builds upon a warning Governor McKeth Tewis spoke about just prior to her demise at the start of season two. Okay. We are getting into some shit here. It is, it is, those wolves aren't done. It's giving, it's giving, it's giving, it's giving, it's giving, it's giving, it's going to have to do a Jedi Temple trial and like lock himself in the Jedi Temple to prevent it from anyone

else being able to access it. Oh no, he's got to be one with Lothal. It'll be like a Superman for all seasons or is it the All-Star Superman, whichever one ends with him and the sun. Yeah, I think that that's all star. Maybe I'm wrong. Is he going to become a Bidu? Is that the guy's name Bidu?

Oh, Bendu. Oh, what if he becomes a Bendu? he'd be a great bendu and Bendu would be so annoying about it Ah ha ha ha ha You'd be You're

Yeah You're just like me now What are we going shopping When are we hanging out We have so much to talk about Watching the Galaxy's events I wasn't really mad at you I was just giving you shit

I knew this was coming. I thought it would be funny. So what do you? I do like to hang out and get mossy. Yeah, exactly. I'm so mossy, bro. God. So yeah, I think we are, we are,

this is what I was saying before. The Thai defenders are important, but we are doing force shit. That is all of this. We're back to Ezra and the animals, except this time the animals aren't weirdly annoying to me. wait wait wait wait you hated the whales

uh i hated the spiders no no no i hated the spiders said it all no it was the whales were okay but then we had and i hated spiders sucked the google eyed spiders sucked and the stuff in season one when he goes in and he's like drawing the dark energy out of the weird creatures in the dark do you remember the like monsters they've been trying to do as they're in the animals forever

the whales maybe the only ones that worked for me they're like the hyperspace whales the set of episodes weren't good the whales were fine the like stakes and the and the problem were whales episode was good I think that was the rare

like the animals and the whole conceit we learned how hyperspace was discovered yeah they made hyperspace I like that I think I like the mining guild stuff in that episode

that was cool speaking of we'll be back to them in a second but I like these wolves well right this wolf and so you're probably burning with curiosity about the wolves

well thank the force the episode Kindred is here to explain it Kind of It begins with Canaan musing Nehara That something is always called to the ghosts About Lothal, even before they met Ezra Meanwhile, Thron is sick of the bungling surrounding him and calls in his personal assassin

Rook to hunt the rebels down He's basically a smoothed down Hairless Urik High Who can smell Lassat from miles off He comes on-screen sniffing he is sniffing guy we know that's him I'm so glad we read those books can you imagine if he was like who the fuck is this who's that we know it's Rook it's Rook it's Rook he really hits it when he says it when the fact that he was like that the fact that he was like I'm

calling my boy Rook and I got to be like Rook is coming yeah Rook is coming here like that's the homie it wasn't just that Rook showed up It was that Ruth got the call. Yeah. We knew Rook was coming. He was on his way. He's going to arrive. Beautiful.

I can't fucking handle listening to Thrawn order Mexican food. Oh my God. You know he would hit the foundations. It'd be so annoying. Oh, sorry. You mean Mexico? Yeah. Fahitas.

I would like three. Sizzling. Fahitas. Like, okay, dude, we can't We're at a Chili's, my man We're at the Imperial Chili's you gave The Baron what's his fun You know that kitchen sucks

You know They made the kitchen so bad at old Joe's The nachos come out It's just it's just Potato chips Oh my God can't make a drink Like he's just pouring them juice Or whatever like you can't mix for shit

He can't do it out it's poor. He's just pouring the mix. He's not even pouring. It's just the mix. It comes down. The alcohol's in the mix, isn't it? That's the drink. That's the drink.

At the store, it said margarita on it. Then also, you know the drinks in that place are like croissant margarita, tatooine, sex on the beach. You know, it's like extremely just place name. Oh, gross. They got the TGI. Friday's, like, Tex-Mex tower of three appetizers going. So Ruch finds Ezra disguised as a scout trooper out there.

Also, he finds it, like, in the wilds. 300 feet away. They are not far enough away to be high. I know. They're literally looking at them. I know. It's wild. As we're standing there, like, facing, like, front.

Just watching him come closer. Yeah. But he has a real reaction, like, I don't know what that is. That's not good, though. Yeah. He's like, guys, we should leave. Good. A chase through the canyons ensues. We're playing the hits here. Rook plants a tracker on Ezra, which, of course, nobody detects.

Bro, they have the worst op-sac. It's driving me crazy. The thing you're supposed to do, if you're listening and need to do this, you go to a place that isn't your base. You check to make sure that you're not being followed. Ideally, you change vehicles. Ideally, you change vehicles. But okay, maybe you can't because you're trying to, you don't have another vehicle setup. So you should, but you don't. You have to at least do the bug check somewhere that isn't home base. You know? Or like, meet in the third party place and do the handoff. You can't go

right back home when you're being tracked by a guy who can smell your boy, Zeb from a thousand yards away. You know your boy Smalley. You know your boy's referred to the fact that Zeb smells. Yeah. So, like, come on. I don't know. Like, Bedbath and Beyond might

have some product. I don't know. You got to do something. Like, I don't know. Like, yeah, we need a countermeasure. We do. I do like that Rick puts that thing on in the middle of that fight, in the middle of the chase. He doesn't wait until they're about to pull off. He like puts it on them and then immediately does a maneuver to stay close to them so that like they wouldn't even think, oh, he's letting us go and just going to track us.

You know, he's good. He's good at what he does. He should have been the closer, but instead he reports in and Price attacks the camp, which, of course, further blocks Canaan from getting some, get, getting some love via the, well, if you'd love the rebellions, so much, why don't you marry it, whining at Hera, which should remind us all that cartoons often have sexy and cool characters but are rarely made by sexy and cool people, which might be why Canaan sometimes sounds like a teenager, annoyed his girlfriend, is considering the university two time zones away, rather than the perfectly good state school where they could be together if she really cared about him at all. Still, as the Imperials arrive, and Hera lifts

off to take the defender to the rebellion. No, wait a second, they do kiss. I just want to be clear. This is, they edges for a second time, but then they do actually She gives Kane and a kiss. Yes. And the rest of the ghosts look on with approval. It's so funny. It's so funny. What if you had like a dozen dogs

looking at you and your partner? Sabine being like, Zeb, you got to see this shit. It's so funny. She hits him in the ass. He's like, no, look. I told you. You know they have a bet. You know they have a bet going. And she just got paid off that.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Also looking on with approval is Thrawn. Proving once again, he's Harris' number one fan, as he does nothing while she escapes the planet in the U-wing, and all the Imperals around and we're like, don't worry, sir, we're going to shut her off, we're going to shut her down. And he just watches as she lines up and jumps her ship through a star base hanger in the hyperspace,

sucking like half the crew complement of the flight deck, like out in the space. It's awesome. It's awesome. She's good at her job. Hera rules. It was so cool. Throne loves watching her work.

Yeah. If Hera has, you know, a thousand fans, I'm one of them. If Hera has two fans, I'm one of them. If her has one fan, it's Grand Admiral Thrawn because he's killed me out of jealousy. Like, he's the guy. He really, really is in it like that. He's the guy who posted, I have a huge crush on a girl. And someone's going to tell me what she's like.

And he said, no, because I don't want you. thinking about her. That's thrown for Hera. The rebels are swiftly cornered in the canyons and Price sends in Thai bombers to flatten the area but the loath wolves arrive to lead the gang to safety. Ezra wants them

what they want with him but it's a field of dreams situation. They don't want you, Ezra. They want Canaan. Once he approaches they lead the gang into a deep cave as the bombs begin falling above and then they take a turn into a tunnel that looks like hyperspace.

The wolves lead the ghosts across space and they pass out, waking up on the other side of the planet in what looks like a Jedi temple with pictograms of Yoda and other Jedi meeting the wolves and hanging out. It turns out the wolf didn't say Doom is in like, well, again, maybe it's ambiguous, but maybe he didn't say Doom is in like death, fate, whatever. You meant like Doom is in Caleb Doom, Doom, King's original name before. he went in the hiding. And that clues came in somehow that the empire must be up to be up to something pretty bad.

There it is. That is the stuff. I don't still get it, but, you know, I think if there's a place on a planet that can like zap you thousands of miles away magically if the wolves let you go, that's classic Palpatine wants to fuck with that stuff. A hundred percent. Which also makes me go, are we going to get Palpatine? Are we getting, are we getting, are we getting, she?

Is she going to come try to kill these wolves? Oh, maybe. Or like, take them in? Right, Sith wolves. Yeah, take their force power? Yeah. Is that the subtitle that people warned us about? Yeah, it was Doom.

It's the next episode we get the full name. Yeah. People were warning us to not watch the previous episode with subtitles for fear that we would see that it says Doom, D-U-M-E, which is Canaan's last name. But we did some research and saw that, like, no, like that was available right away. People knew immediately because the comic had come out years before at this point that Doom could potentially mean Caleb Doom.

And, you know, ambiguity is not, it can exist even if literally they did say D-D-U-M-E, you know, so. Totally. Anyway. Yeah. Shoutouts to the wolves. Shoutouts to the wolves. Shoutouts to being transferred through space and time. It's a cool sequence.

and it does feel, I will say what's working for me about the wolves in a way that, you know, they never even tried to cash out the creepy spiders eventually. They kind of just kind of like let that. They kept coming around, you know what I mean on Adelon, but they never really like, I kept wondering if they were going to be related to Bendo in some way I didn't understand or something, you know, that just never really, unless I missed it or I've forgotten because we've taken so many things. But I think there's something about these wolves that feel. feels ominous, but not evil ominous.

It does feel like a path is being closed or being walked down and that there's something that we're getting towards something big. And it all also really hits for going back to Twin Sons where Obi-Wan was like, you're busy over there, buddy. You've got to get back to your thing. There's something else in the galaxy drawing you. And Ezra was like family. And like, that might be true.

But also, there's more than one, you know, story happening around there's more than one uh what the fuck is cody roads a stupid thing there's more than one royal family in wrestling or whatever there's more than one there's not just the skywalkers out there our family matters too it has its own little story going on in rebels that's like connected to the force that seems to matter um i will say this is all it all smacks a bit of mortis to me oh yeah and so i'm curious because right now they're cooking but you know how i feel about mortis and I'm just I want I just I just want to know if it's going to be that don't tell me it's one of the mysteries I don't know is what if these are like the brother and sisters

like dogs because they have that animal shit happening on that plane I don't remember any dogs there at all but but they do have like light sided and dark sided animals big time and become light sided and dark sided animals so I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I feel just really good about that they're, like, extending the mythology of, uh, lawful. Um, like, there's like, you know, it almost feels like we've had so long with, like,

returning there being a need that keeps getting frustrated, that, like, continuing the, like, audience investment and some of the mystery about what this place is beyond, And Ezra's home or whatever has been really fun in this way of like, oh, you know, there's there's a power here. There is a draw here. There's something bigger going on in the big, in the forces all connected sort of way that, that, you know, I think works. Agreed. Yeah.

Also, they're creepy. They're like, there's that bit where Canaan and him are watching one of them and they just kind of like kind of walks backwards into the wall. all right i guess they can do that cool yeah they definitely have like an ambiguous intention behind them that doesn't necessarily feel you don't really feel safe with them i i like that esra is more inclined as somebody who grew up on lethal and has like a connection to this place and also as we know has animal powers um kind of i like that he's more willing to engage with

and like follow the the loath wolves wherever they're taking him but the fact that there's it's Ezra trusting them Ezra who has often trusted the creatures of the galaxy

the creatures of the galaxy and also people who might not necessarily have Ezra's best interest in mind like mall or Honda or Honda over and over and over like Ezra is is a very trusting person and usually Ezra like ends up okay but it's other people that end up having taking the sort of the the consequences or the yeah yeah for sure exactly exactly so I really feel like this

This is, this is going to have a consequence on someone else that is not Ezra. And, but not necessarily in an, it might be, they're not, they're not, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're not, they're, they're, they're not, they're, they're like, they're, they're, they're, they're, it's like, it's like, mother nature. Mother nature is not like an evil, you know, when, when, when there's a hurricane or some force beyond us that causes, you know, or, you know, a tree falls down. It's not like, there's no inherent evil in the way that creatures and move about and live their lives and the kind of natural ecosystems. But that doesn't mean they don't have negative consequences or that people don't, you know, experience negative effects from them. So I don't know. I'm like, I'm very, I wonder if it, just, I, I wonder what plane of existence we're going to experience those consequences on. If we will be transported right to a world like Mortis or if there's

a Jedi temple here or if. And I say the thing I most don't want to happen. And I think I trust this group not to do it. I don't want this to be, and this happens sometimes in this sort of side story inside of a big world. I don't want this to be like, and then the wolves, because Kainan and Luke were, or Kana and Ezra in the right place at the right time, they helped Luke shoot the missile into the Death Star. Do you know, I don't want this crossing into, they did something important that explains something in the original trilogy. Like they fill in the plot hole of, yeah, which, which Filoni and co have done a lot of with, with the prequels in terms of

not feeling it holds so much as giving motivation that feels more established for where the prequels end up going, for instance. Like, I think that there is a lot that these shows have done for bringing more detail where it was needed. But this is a place where I hope it can just stand on its own as its own weird thing. I want to feel about them the way I feel about like, well, maybe about the force, which is explicitly anymore, but the way I, you know what I mean? Or the, I was going to say the Mandalorians, but the way I feel.

I felt about the Mandalorians when I was 13. Yes. Yeah. And it's like this is for these characters, not for characters who will never know these loath wolves. Exactly. You know, however many years from now in the timeline. And I think that's part of what doesn't sit good about Mortis for me is that it seems like if you take it, not even at face value, but if you like, there's a lot of ways to read Mortis. But all of it, many of those readings make it prime.

like a like a like gives it primacy in the ontology of the way the world of star wars works like i don't want to think about the fucking family and mortis looking out and seeing the death star be destroyed and having opinions about it do you know what i mean i don't want i don't want to think about how that fits in with the balance between the father the brother and the sister or whatever the fuck or the son and the daughter whatever they're called i i want that to be it gets to be its own thing and if mortis had been more like you know there was that remember that weird planet and clone Wars where R2D2 and C3BO went and they met the fairy, the underground weird forest fairy or like the nature spirit, like that's fine. It's fine for there to be a planet where there's

a nature spirit. Like that's 100% a stat. That's the type of thing I'm fine with in Star Wars and it doesn't have to be the secret to the force, you know? And I like it when it's willing to do that. In the same way that it's willing to do that with alien creatures or with pieces of technology or whatever the same way that umbara umbara darkness on umbara is that right uh had like all that different tech that's just very much that place that that that's it we don't need other ships to start hovering the way their ships did um and so i'm really hoping that they stay close in and at the very least that they don't try to be a draw direct connection to something else you know i don't want anyone using this whatever this is i don't want the wolves to go save and or and um

Oh my God, what is her name? Jen. Yeah, Jin Erso from the explosion using the wolf hyper. Hang on. What if the wolves save Andor and Jin Erso from the explosion? Uh-huh. And then it said the adventure will continue in Andor season three. I don't think I want it.

I want. That's not what I want. Unless they say Ander Season 3, which is a different universe. We're spinning up Star Wars part two. It says the new EU is born. And something, you know, like, through the wolves. What if in the middle of Andor, like, the Death Star shoots a different planet than Alderan? What if the Death Star blows up Yavin-4?

And then we're like, holy shit. Like, they created the new EU. We had no idea this is where it was going. That I would fuck with, you know? But I don't, I don't want them to, I don't want them to, no. Uh-uh. I don't want Ezra and Cassie and Ander to be in the same place at the same time. I don't think.

If we see a fucking, if we see Cassian in this animation style, I'm going to lose my mind. I'm going to lose my mind. It would be so fucking awesome. That would be, I want, no, see, here's the thing. I do like Cassian in this animation style. So maybe I'm wrong. Well, also, but here's the thing. No, no, no.

Okay, it's like, it just won't leave my head. Do you remember in the TV show community where there's, it's like, it's, it's, opens on like a G. I. Joe cartoon. But in that cartoon, someone just gets like machine gunned into pieces, like just dies violently and horribly. And like Cobra Commander is like what the fuck? And everyone's just like looking at like a bullet riddled body. And it's like that's just not what happens in G.I. Joe. And like death is introduced. That's what I want. I want like and or shit to happen in a rebels episode. And everyone just like jaws on the floor. Yeah. I mean, that'd be great.

Like someone betrays them, and, like, Andor just pulls the pistol and shoots them in the back of the head. I'm just like, what? Well. Unfortunately, we're going to get is Ezra in the season finale of Andor arriving on scene and saying, my name is Jabba the hut? Who are you, kid? You can call me Java. Fuck. No.

please wait I we have we need to do a dramatic reading of um that tweet the the fake script the fake script Rob have you seen this no you've not seen the incredible fake script I'll find it not in here do we not posted it in here did it no do I even have it on hand let's see if I can find it I have it good can you post it yeah it's coming got the best Cassian. Uh-huh. Uh, got the best Cassian on deck. Do I?

I can do Saw. You can do Saw. I'll be man. We need. Allie, can you be, can you do the, can you do the, can you do the, I'll take the surprise character, yeah. Oh, no, yeah, you want to do so, then I'll do the narrator, like, I'll do the, just the stage directions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, perfect. We need these protesters to disperse before this turns into a Gorman massacre. Cassian turns to face a stormtrooper. dang ferric our wamp rat tail is cooked the squadron leader removes his helmet to reveal saul guerrera from the clone wars we're going to kill innocent civilians am i man

you're man okay not if i have anything to say about it the man ignites a lightsaber revealing him to be a ginger wearing a poncho who are you holy shit it's calcestus i'm calcester's a double jump you can do oh it's so funny yeah oh fuck yeah so i can't wait for ander's season two it should be really good anyways so the show we're watching my thoughts about the wolves yeah so when i saw When he was seeing the lone wolf. Yeah.

I was thinking that this really was about, about Ezra because his arc has been having no family. The lone wolf. Finding a family and realizing that's the important thing. The Jedi were like trying, like the Jedi are about isolation and like distancing yourself from these things. He realizes that's not his path. He loves his family. He wants to be with them. He wants to be like part of the unit.

Uh-huh. And then the wolf is there sort of heralding like you're going to have to walk alone. Like you're, you are a pack animal, but your destiny is not. to be with the pack. Now that you, like, now that you've accepted your destiny of, like, you're, you're part of this hole and you love it. Now, for the sake of that love, you're going to have to, like, leave it behind. But then, I also think there's something else with Ezra that, like, he's always been

about, and this is kind of cool. Yoda's always, like, the forces in all living things, et cetera, but, like, that doesn't mean anything because it's a tool that the Jedi and the Sith get to use. They get to the region of the life force, but, like, nothing else does. Zahn is like, well, why couldn't other animals use it? And he kind of goes in a weird direction with it, which is the Vornskurs use it to hunt, the Salomeree, like sort of use it to hide. But here, like, with the whales and all this stuff, you're kind of leaning the fact that, like, Star Wars technology is already kind of inherently magical. Like, how does hyperspace work?

How, who gave it to people in the galaxy? It appears not to be been invented. It's just kind of there. And so you have this notion that, like, Ezra, like, can sort of Dr. Doolis. little it and talk to the animals, but like the animals like also have their own relationship with like the reality, the ontology of this universe. And so there are ways that like in the same way that maybe like the empire represents like encroaching technology and industry to like control and slave like labor in the natural world, to extent you could also say like the

force and every depiction is instrumentalized in some fashion. And through Ezra and through these wolves we have this notion of like no the force is natural in the way that like a forest is natural and the way the ocean is natural and there will be creatures who use it and they won't think of it as like a tool that they use they won't think of it in that way because like they're of nature and they're animals it is it is just in their nature to to use it but the ways they will use it will be mind blowing to people who are familiar with the concepts of the force and what's possible with it coming from like Sith and Jedi tradition that for the wolves, it's like, well, why wouldn't we migrate?

Just like, why wouldn't we just, like, open a tunnel in space and just, like, walk away from harm? Why can't we just walk through the stars? Why can't the whales, like, why can't we just decide to, like, create a new hyperspace lane and walk through it? And so I think that's some of what's, like, I dig this notion of, unlike Mortis, where it's like, here's the Mount Olympus of the Force, which I think kind of sucks. I kind of like this notion of there are creatures of the force out in the universe and they have

they like kind of literally walk the walk that Yoda implies the force is there for all living creatures and for some of them it just fulfills like a very simple need. Yeah. I want to go over there because I'm an animal and it's good over there. I need travel there. And the force just opens

to it. It suggests a different possibility for the world too, right? It's like we could live that way. We don't because we've built the Jedi, we've built the Sith, we've built the empire, we've built the Republic, but we could live in a world where the force exists in this other way for us, where it isn't instrumentalized. It's around us all the time. I will say it does also further the other thing that Star Wars loves, which is the dichotomy between nature and technology or the binary between those two, that it relies so heavily upon as a storytelling device and a storytelling language, which is sometimes very effective,

especially when you're talking about industrialization and devastation of natural environments as we are in these episodes, especially in the next one, which you're going to summarize probably in a second here, Rob, where we just see, you know, complete inefficient destruction for the sake of eking out as much, you know, material and profit as you possibly can, no matter the cost to the environment. But it also does get into tricky territories, especially around things like droids, cyborgs. We've talked about these topics a lot. People who didn't listen to us to talk about. Skeleton crew is having a really great story in it about this that actually tackled some of our ongoing critique of the way Star Wars handles these things. People should

go listen to that if they haven't yet. But it fits really neatly in a world where droids can't access the force for animals to be somehow especially force, certain animals to be especially force reliant or force, you know, have access to it in this pure, unrefined, noble way. Like, it does fall into some of those things. I would love Star Wars to one day tackle that in a bigger way. But as long as we're working inside of that constraint and inside of those rules, which is how stories work, I'm happier to have this than to have the version of it where the only vision of the force you get is different orders utilizing this resource as different

types of weapons. You know, it's more cool for me to see the loath wolves teleporting people through the weird hallway than it is to see the knight, the knight sisters using green forcebow energy or big orbs that break in the gaskets everywhere. Pour one out from other talson. This is kind of why. So when they revealed what's going on with the wolves, I was a little bummed because for me, it felt very, you know, dances with wolves in some ways. Yeah. Oh, it's Definitely in there. It was a straight up like, you know, okay, imagine instead of wolves. Uh-huh.

You have native people. 100%. Now what do we think of this? 100%. And it feels like a similar thing where it's like, ah, like these creatures in this Rousseauian dichotomy are like pure of nature. Untouched by human civilization and unruined, classic orientalism stuff. And they're here to heal your heart, Kane and Jaris and all the, like, and so like,

it's cool. I love to walk through the space, the stars, the way they're, like, Like the animation, the way their, the way their paws, like, strike the star field and, like, light chorus gates off. It's, it's, it's great. It's beautiful. But also, I was like, this is some, like, Disney magical animals, magical nature, magical, native. Yes.

Uh, type, type tropes. And that is, that is kind of where it, where it missed for me, uh, you know, like, because at this point, I think it, in part because, like, it's so about, like, the deep spiritual connection that like Ezra and Canaan are forging with these things whereas like the thing that didn't the reason the whales didn't hit me this way

is because the whales were just doing whale shit and Ezra has this powerful element of connection of like oh I realize like this whole thing you just needed this one thing and we're sort of just two creatures passing by each other with different agendas and different capacities but you're not

the only way that you matter to me isn't just you you're kind of like a human I didn't realize or a person I didn't realize. They get to continue to be whales in the end, right? Here, the moment where we realize there's something truly up with these wolves is when they speak, right? Oh, my God, it said a word. That means it's more like us than like the loathcats that are running around.

And inside of that framework, then you can start asking questions about indigenity, about the way that we tell stories about native people, et cetera. Even though these wolves are very clearly not humanoid, they are clearly sapient and different way than the loath cats are. And even though the loath cats have that sort of cartoon sapiens, that cartoon cat like energy where they can clearly like pull tricks on people, these are fuckers who talk and have opinions about things seemingly. And so we'll see, right? I, again, inside of the framework, I really like it. And I do my best to remind myself of established frameworks, especially when working with stories that other people don't, the writers

don't fully control and what the rules of those are. But again, like, that's the degree to which it works. I am, as I just said, also very curious to see where it goes from here, right? And at the same time, it's probably what's saying out loud that part of the indigenity story that's being told, though, he's also being told through Ezra, which is Ezra is from here, and Ezra went to go join someone else's fight, and Ezra is like, no one is helping my people, they're letting us suffer. This matters to me. And Ezra isn't coded as indigenous, but his story is very explicitly about how the local needs of his people have been put aside for the global needs of a movement that is happy to use him as a soldier, but is not happy to dedicate

resources without having a very clear return in what those resources are. So I don't want to say that, like, this is the first time those ideas have come up on the screen, but they're not being deployed in, you know, they're not being deployed in the way that the Gungens are being deployed. Imagine a version of the Gungans who are treated like full people instead of comic relief and their concerns around Nabu, which we really liked when we went back and watched Phantom Medicine. And then whenever it popped up, there was always something in there that felt real. It's just that Clone Wars sometimes also had witch doctor Gungens in there. And that all that should also felt really bad, as you might, which doctors who were also, um, like, uh,

there were viziers and like French Revolution executioners. And it was a very weird Clone Wars was weird I know we look back On the ones Doing the most We was doing the most I know we have Some rose color glasses on

About it But there was some real misses In Clone Wars We have to remember Yeah but you look For sure The thing is Witch Doctor is right

Alongside Dr. Nouveauvin I know Like if you don't love Clone Wars at its witch doctor You can't get it It's Newvo Vindy And those episodes We're not that far apart

From each other I think So they're both on They're both on Naboo There's Gungin's involved In both of Anyway one more one more episode yeah yeah yeah got no there was one last thing about the wolves oh yeah no no no this might be overthinking it but esra on this show that the wolves haven't

been seen the wolves have like to ezra's indigenated or lack yeah Ezra notes the wolves haven't seen in ages a hundred years lowthal as he knows it is a planet of grasslands and subsistence farming before the empire shows yeah wolves ain't creatures of the grasslands like he is a product of a planet that may have already been aggressively terraformed to become like the American Midwest what happened to all the trees that they would have lived in yeah yeah

right and so to a degree like these are the people who like these are the creatures who lived here before your people are now here like I mean that's what the image you see to suggest is doing to his planet is what like his predecessors did to the wolves oh your natural environment

we clear cut it yeah because we needed some other stuff to happen here yeah very curious time will tell uh this last one quick summary here because it's just it literally is all plot and details and events uh so the gang now need to make contact uh with yavin but with comms under imperial control they're not sure how they're going to talk to ezra uh to to hera and uh the rebel base at yavin until they find a mining guild crawler with a huge comms around. They hijack it, but they really fuck everything. This bothers me. They make a complete

hash out of this, and that's why this entire episode happens. They hijack it, but before the, and my notes were, before the snake overseer sounds the alarm, like, but, like he... Not just the snake overseer. He met... Who is it? Did you look up who it was? No. Seth Green is here.

baby. He's kind of funny, though. The same time. But I didn't realize until the end, he's a Trandotion too. It's just, he's a runt.

Yeah. And I thought he was different species, but he's just little. In the Rebels Recon episode, Henry Gilroy was like, once you get past the idea that a Trondotion has to look like Basque, it's awesome.

Maybe it wasn't Henry. Maybe it was one of the artists. I don't remember exactly, but one of them was like, it would have been Killian. But it was like, you could make them look like anything. As long as they're lizard-y-type people, you would do little lizard, you could do a big lizard, you could do snake-ish, you could do like an alligator person, because all the

trans oceans are different lizard-y types. And so we can just make this guy a little runt chameleon lizard, and that just works. So, yeah. All right, that's great. So they take over the crawler, but they screw it up and they let this guy sound the alarm, and then they let him get out like yelling background. calls to the Imperials, trying to tell the Imperals that there's nothing to worry about. And so naturally, that goes bad.

In the meantime, Canaan rescues a bunch of slaves, including Bazaago, who's being held aboard this parlor. Zeb fights a Trandotian foreman with an electrow whip. It's cool. Ezra impersonates a Trandotian doing all sorts of snake talking. I think that's probably racist. The Imperials show up and then depart without suspecting a thing. because all the slaves and Vizago

and the ghosts work together to sort of dupe them into just thinking it was a standard mining guild screw up but the Trandotian like supervisor escapes he tries to sabotage the crawler Ezra goes to fix it and when they fight

Ezra drops his lightsaber and the dude slips on it like a banana peel and goes straight into the smelter which is basically the furnace from home alone if it actually just killed something. Or maybe the furnace from burbs. They're both the same furnace. My final note, in fact, for this series of episodes is

comedy incineration because that's how that he like almost falls in four or five. He goes in the incinerator. He goes in the forge. That dude is dead. You don't see him die. I guess that's true. Yeah. That's children's children's show rules. You're right. That's right. That's true. You could show an atom bomb dropped on

like a city. That's fine. That's allowed. We didn't see anybody done. just standing over him watch out it's so wild it's so wild he's dead anyway they do get they do get in touch with

yavin where hera has been arguing with the rebel leadership uh that they need to stop the tie defender for being deployed and they've come around to that so hara tells them that uh the rebels have agreed it's time to strike at lowthal and the attack is coming and that's where we left off it is fine this is a one-off that

it still has a little bit of continuity I have such little notes about this episode I like I liked the bit about the pride of the mining guild

crawler captain here the Trand Ocean where he talks about how you know he's been manning this uh this crawler for however many years just as he who spawned me and who i will spawn after me like that detail was wild yeah and it makes you think they're the mining clan they are a clan of miners they are a yeah like they really are in that way like familial you know

yeah the idea that this is a family run crawler is also also it's wild the actual structure that is moving across the grasslands burning them up and like extracting the surface ore basically this is the thing that set the world on fire that from that you could see it from from orbit you know um it's terrific it's pretty good it's pretty good yeah don't we shouldn't have these i just want to be clear i don't mean yeah let's we basically do don't get them uh-huh When did Ezra become the official impressions guy? It's become his bit. Why don't he go back to this?

Just like, you're up, Ezra. I don't know. It's literally never worked. Like, what's so funny here is I don't, I'm trying to think, has he ever actually rolled a success on the, I guess no one in Star Wars ever has. Yeah, it's not,

it's not, it's, no, it's funny to say it, not for it to work. You want it to keep happening, you know? Yeah. But we get the great, like, Trandotian being like, do,

do I sound like that? Is that how I sound? Oh, buddy. They should not that guy out. They should not. Well, they did, because then he wakes up somehow. But I don't know.

It's a strong argument of shooting prisoners. See, Sagarera, this would be, this should wouldn't happen. So Gara would have killed this guy. Sangerara would have launched this ore crawler into an imperial base, you know?

Yes. And laughed as people. burned alive below. Yeah. That's all. He might have remembered to rescue the slaves. That's the one,

that's the one, knock with Saw is like, can you carry a gun? And then, you know, it's like, if they're not going to fight for him,

I don't know that he would have cared, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh. So I guess for me, like,

the thing I found most interesting was the stuff on Yavin, where Bail and Mamavma are hesitating, like, once again, is it the right time to launch?

this attack. Yes, the Tide Defender's bad news, but there's other things afoot that we are concerned about. They've got intimations. Probably the Death Star is a thing that's underway.

But I think if you read it now, to me, maybe this is where my head has been at for the past few months, but like, if you view rebels getting around to this as also a show being made during like the United States

increasing slide toward authoritarianism. And when my mom and bail as characters established an earlier era in Star Wars where they are the brave resistance coming from within a formerly democratic order and you know once institutionalists now leaders of this rebellion fighting authoritarianism now what we see in this portrait of them is the institutionalist part the legislator part the people who like in some ways we are getting the taste of like the frustration of who is in charge of like liberal movements, liberal institutions

at a moment like this, and the way they sort of evaluate decisions, the way they frame decisions, the way they view timing, the way they consider, the way they weigh odds about the ups and downs of taking a, taking a battle. And so I think it's kind of interesting here and quite effective that Monmavma, who's there is sort of this you know, this very Lady Galadriel type

in Return of the Jedi like, oh, Monmah, you will lead us. And she's there to sort of tell them like go off and fight the empire. It's, you know, this is our time to strike. I kind of love now meeting her through the lens of a frontline rebel group that is like, hey, we've got like,

we have a viable target. We have a landed under imperial occupation we have people on the ground like waiting for help we have to strike now and bail and mon our first mom was like but there's so many places to help maybe we can't help any of them we need to bide our time and you have bail kind of doing the same thing where it's like we have we need to keep our powder dry for maybe there's a more important fight but what's the fight when are we going to go like we have these things now we've assembled the fleet and so we Now we see them not as, like we see them through Harris eyes, which is they are, they're delayers.

They are people who need to be cajoled into taking action rather than people who will lead people into action. Which is, which is why I saw is so much more charismatic, even to Ezra, and even to Harris sometimes, right, which is like, damn, he's out there doing it, for real. Now, maybe do all of his people come out back each time? No, but he's doing it in a way that Mon Mothman and co. or not. And I also think the important pivot here is, Hara is the one

now frustrated by it. Not Ezra, right? The show has shifted the perspective such that now if we were skeptical of Ezra's frustrations before, we have not just another member of the crew, but one of the most exceptional leaders, the effective leader of the crew is here

and is saying it's time to do this and is still getting kind of brick walled by them on this. And was totally comfortable. Yes. With being the good soldier when like fulcrum was like look you i can't tell you why you have to do this or i can't tell you where this info comes from but you just have to trust and she was like don't question fulcrum like we like let we can absolutely just do our part and not ask these questions and now she's run

like she's run out that rope like she can't she can't grab it anymore and like cling to this notion that like oh there's a plan she's just sitting there being like i don't know that there is a plan like this is this is the fight yeah and it's nice to get mom mouth away And Hara, in a little pull aside, while everyone else is debating, following up on their two character, their moment when Montemothma first got rescued. Do you remember that? And Hara and her had that talk about what it was like to be a leader. And like, now it was now the time and all that stuff.

You know, the fact that they're giving Mon Mothma a space to continue to develop as this character with Hara in that relationship in leadership roles, rules. Like just in terms of characterization, I really did not expect Mon Mothman to get to show up in basically all of these episodes. I expected her to be like a Saul Guerrera-style guest star who was then just off-screen. Because of the positionality of it, we actually get more of her, and we get her being the one who kind of like comes out to say, yeah, it doesn't look good in there, which she's not going to be the one who goes and wins that argument, but she kind of is the catalyst for

hera to storm back in and make the big case, you know, even if she specifically asked hera to do. also bail being like Captain Sondula you're not allowed it's a closed door meeting is very funny I love bail but come on man

your checks don't buy me buy that much patience bro that's right yeah like you bought the ships we fly up we fly them and this is a revolution and I know that there has to be some order in that

we have to do it right but like you're not the police you know I'm going to come tell you how it is I'm going to come tell you how it is I am so curious. It makes me like, I'm so stoked to see what Mademothma is in Andor season two, the arc these things take. But like,

it is just very funny to me that now from the standpoint of the way she's established earlier is like sort of a remote, uh, very like consensus building distant leader. Yeah. To a very frustrating legislator turned resistance leader, which is just thinks powers to be accumulated, not used. Like what she's done so far is like she's assembling the Rebel Alliance. And we keep having these, but for what? Like, what are we going to do with this? Like, where are we going to sort of point this sword?

And every time someone proposes doing something, she is kind of there saying, well, we need to continue accumulating. And doesn't understand that, like, things have their season. that power, like, power waxes and it wanes. And if it's not used, it wanes. Which is the great thing about the Tide Defender story, right? Yeah. Is, you know, like I said before, you can't just tell the Lothwald's part of this story.

It doesn't get everybody else involved. You have to tell a military story there because that's a military show. The thing that they need to get involved is a target that is dangerous enough for them to take action despite their reticence to take action. And the fun thing about the Tide Defender mass production is, If they fail to knock that out before their mass produced, they'll lose one of the advantages they have right now, which is a higher quality of fighter, right? They have lesser numbers, but they have Y-wings and X-wings and A-wings, and all of them have built in hyperspace, which means they're more mobile.

They can strike in the kind of guerrilla-style strikes that Thai fighters can't. Tie-fighters have to be put onto a big Star Destroyer or a cruiser or a carrier or something and moved around as a big unit. you can't just send five X-wing fighters somewhere to, or five Thai fighters somewhere, to do a strafing run on a single target. You can do that with an X-wing. You can do that with a few X-wings, right? And so that's an advantage the rebels have.

They're about to lose that advantage. The Imperials are about to have a whole new type of warfare. And obviously, we're bracketing a lot of particular details about the world that don't make sense if you zoom in a little bit and think about how big is the Imperial Army or military and how much distance needs to be policed and covered and blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. The metaphor being used is about this unwillingness to act, this temporary advantage they have that they're about to squander and let the empire run away with it if the tied offenders can be mass produced, which is a position in any sort of conflict you can be in and that reticence can cost you the win, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Here we are. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's like the classic thing of, um, of, you know, saving all of your items for the final boss. And then you have such a harder time getting to the final boss because you didn't use all the items that the game put there for you to use, not for the final boss, but for all these other fights. Like, it, there has a, also, let me finish my first thing, Their hesitation to engage in the smaller fights

in order to preserve as much as their resources as possible for the big one, to me is actually going to end up with them having soldiers that are more unpracticed, more like they won't have had enough battle experience to be able to think on the fly to be reactive instead of just carrying out, you know, orders of, it's like what we talked about in the Thron books with like the empire's, like new soldier contingent that they were all kind of these unexperienced soldiers that didn't have enough battle practice so they needed to find opportunities to kind of gain experience part of my worry with this rep like this waiting period of the rebel alliance is that

they're going to be in a position where the big fight is here and they don't have they have all resources maybe like materially they have all the people and weapons but not necessarily all the experience they need to be able to win that fight and yeah well I mean especially because we know like where this ends is the battle right or the rebels have to go fight the imperial fleet in a fleet action they have to go like your star destroyers against armand Kalimar cruisers and your tie fighters against our A wings and B wings and X wings we have to go and like fight nose to nose in that way, like they're going to have to get to that point.

And we seem right now they're not remotely there, but part of how you're going to get there is like getting your ass kicked the way they did at, uh, at a lot and places like that. Yeah. And in this, in this era of like now that the rebels are all aligned, the Phoenix Squadron has had this experience.

if they've taken tons of like small fights, you know, over the, well, what feel like actually big fights because they're a smaller squadron. But like all of these individual pieces have their kind of own experiences. But as an alliance, in order for them to not just communicate with each other, but able to act off of each other and gel together as a unified front for that big fight, you need to, you need to, you need. some trial runs like you need to deploy um it's that problem that luthan is beginning to like get to when in that meeting with saw in andor where trying to coordinate these groups is impossible because like they don't respect each other they all have different methods and so the moment it's like well can you two guys collaborate no no we have no history of doing that we don't have a group on goals like they just there's no capacity and that's the what's kind of cool is like

and or it's like we're building cells. Rebels is kind of like we're a tiny little cell. But you're going to have to get to a point where you can like go be a movement, go be an army. And there's a point where you have to transition from that like self-contained insular little cell world to like, okay, now we're part of like this broader like, you know, body. And that, yeah, that takes time and like trust building and working together. And that's not something you can just do training at like your hidden base. That's part of it, but you're going to have to go out there and fight. I think a while, I think we're talking about, like, in the opening crawl of a new hope,

it's the, the rebels trying their hidden base of won their first victory against the, the galactic empire. Uh-huh. I think a few weeks we were saying, like, well, was that Scariff? And I just didn't think that Scariff qualified as a win. Like, the Imperial, the Rebel fleet that's sent there largely dies. Planet gets zapped. And, like, a new hope opens, like, a day after, after, uh, you know, the end of, of, of Rogue 1.

Yeah, it's right away, right? And it's like, yeah. And so, like, they're pursuing these plans, but it does, it's like, it's a intelligence victory, but is it like a win-win? I feel like Lothal is the thing we're building towards, that the thing being referred to in New Hope's opening crawl is probably Lothal, that, like, the empire is going to be handed a real military defeat that looks like a military defeat the way they understand it. like star destroyers being blown up, planet like falling out of imperial control.

I don't think Scariff meets those conditions. Like Scariff like is, is a raid where like the rebel fleet gets like slaughtered. Tarkin blows up his own installation. But like it's just not, that's hard to say it's a dub. I mean, I feel like low falls what we're building towards. Unfortunately, that is not the new hope crawl says during the battle rubble spies managed to steal the secret plans. to the Death Star. So it is that battle, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's kind of definitive. It's striking from a hidden base have won their first victory against the evil galactic empire. During the battle, rebel spies managed to steal secret plans. Or their concurrent. Or their, or, yeah, during the,

that's why the rebel, that's why the empire didn't send more short. During the battle elsewhere in the galaxy, far away, rebel spies managed to steal it's possible. I don't know. that way. But, like, I just, I do not think that, because my, my feeling about it was always that, like, rebellions get taken seriously when a defeat is handed to, like, the occupying power

that will be interpretable as such by the occupying power, right? Like, it's until, like, American colonists can force the British army to, like, retreat from the field, like, at Saratoga, or force it to surrender like at Yorktown like those are not the things that signal a crisis for an empire because like oh like soldiers are getting killed that happens we're an empire like garrisons get ambushed like that's just that's just the cost of doing business as an evil empire yeah it's when the things that you're good at the things that you are the ways you measure success are not achieved that is when you start seeing like rebel movements taken seriously yeah because that is the sort of thing where you can't let it slide because it proves that like you're not invincible, that your rule is not like some sort of

law of nature. My instinct is that in the production, especially the messy production of Rogue One, that the detail that that was supposed to be an outright major victory has given way to, we have to tell an interesting story here. There has to be big costs. We want it to be a tragedy. We're going to kill our main characters. And we want to see the Death Star go off at least once. You know, it actually goes off twice, right? So, but yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think that one of the things that gets complicated when you make a big franchise with all this extra material is, for instance, I think at the end of Rogue 1, two Star Destroyers blow up. We see people blow up Star Destroyers on this show every week now. Like, it ain't nothing, you know? Yeah. It's true. Maybe blowing up Star Destroyers just by being near a nebula, you know? And if that's what counts as a victory, then, yeah, we've seen a lot of little victories at that point. And I do think it's an intelligence victory and blah, blah, blah, too, obviously. But, but I, you know, I see your point.

I think mostly they probably lost, they probably did not infant want, that did not stop them from telling the story that they decided they wanted to tell, you know. I would love to see every screenplay that was written for Roe 1. Maybe the Gareth Edwards cut. This is an ambiguous win. Like just big dubs for the rebels. I would love to see all the various versions of this movie or read, read all the different scripts.

If you have the other scripts, please reach out. If you have rough cuts of what happened with Gareth Edwards' movie looked like, I'd be curious. If we know anyone. Please, hook us up. Maybe we do. Maybe we know. We know we do. But like, I don't know how high.

I don't know how they can get us. Like Tony Gilroy was like giving an interview where he was like, I know there's podcasts that'll be really under the gun with this compressed release schedule. And I was like, that's me. I'm podcasters. We're a podcast. Tony Gilroy's sitting there being like, oh, man, poor Zachny. He's going to be pulling some late nights, potting about. You know, he might not have remembered our names, but Rob, I bet he remembered the water prediction, you know?

Yes. I'm sure someone put that in front of them. He found my motif. He found it. If they end up at like Zachny Lake, you know, that's how we'll know. We'll know. Lake Zachney. What if Harris shows up in Andor, just as Ma'Amathmas pilot in one of the episodes?

Doesn't really say anything. It's just piloting. Or it's just like, we're almost there, Madam Senator. Would we like that? I don't know. I don't know. I won't know until I see it. You know?

Maybe we'll finish this and it'll be like, damn, I miss my family from the ghost. I miss the specters or whatever they're called. Totally. Totally. I mean, I still think sometimes about how people thought that the like announcement that was going to play in the prison outbreak episode was going to be Ezra's thing from the one when he was like being his parents again. Yeah. Uh-huh. The people think, I forgot that people thought that. Yeah, that I don't want that. That I don't want that. That I don't want. But would I, but would it be okay if it would definitely be okay if the ghost was just in the background of a shop.

Awesome. So you've been in the background of a shot in Rogue War, I think. Chopper was also in the background was shot in Rogue One. I'd be fine if Chopper showed up, like truly in the background, like for a split second. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I would be fine with Chopper showing up in a non-speaking role. I'd want him to speak as he's going to. I don't, it's, you're playing with fire. You really are playing with fire with this stuff. I really think you are.

But, you know, I don't want that Zeb to show up, the live action Zab. Oh, God, yeah. cursed live action, Zab. I have to know what Tony Gilroy's favorite episode of Rebels is. Because we know he's at least read about it.

He hasn't seen one. No, but he's, but the Gorman Massacre shows up in the dialogue, right? There's so much overlap in the time periods and some of the beats that, like, I can't imagine that he is not. Also, he didn't have to do a podcast. He could just watch this all in a week. Living the life. He could have, you know, skipped a couple of this.

be like, just call Pablo. So you're going to complain? No, right, let's move. Let's just put it in the script. Yeah, the version of this where you don't watch this is you do your writing with Pablo in the room and you get to be like, what, what, you know, radicalizes Mom Mothma to finally take a stand? And we now know it's the Gorman Massacre.

She's mentioned it on this show on Rebels. And so we know that that's the thing he can play with, for instance, right? And we know the props department for Andor had some big fucking nerds in it. I'm sure the writer's room had some big fucking nerds. And so I'm sure it's very easy for like someone like Gilroy who's like, I don't know, I'm working on my next script for a movie or something. And like, look,

here's this espionage story I want. And then you got a roomful people who are like, oh, that can dovetail with Rebels Season 4. It's like, sure. Yeah. Love it. Love it.

Let's do it. I'm so ready. I'm so ready for it. It's time. It is time. And it's also time. time for us to call an end to this week's episode of a more civilized age. Our show is produced by Chia Contreras and supported by our listeners at patreon.com

slash civilized. So what have we got coming up next week? We have four episodes, just nonstop combat on. Do you want the names of the episodes? The spoilers in them. Okay, can I just say crawler commandeers sucks? Crawler commandeers sucks. Yeah, I thought it was Crawler Commanders

And it's Crawler Commanders It's not a good plan words Because crawler commandeers doesn't mean shit You've read the episode titles Natalie Is that what you just did? Yes All right I'm going to read them First ones of immediate reference

To the thing we've already talked about Episode 9 Rebel Assault Like the video game Rumour lead please Bring her back Uh huh number 10 Episode 10 we're doing 9 through 12 9 is Rebel Assault

10 is Jedi Knight But night Oh fuck that I don't like But Knight spelled with an N, and it was spelled without a K, Jedi Knight. 11 is Doom, D-U-M-E, and 12 is Wolves and a door. Do we think he's making it out of this? I would advise everyone not to read any summaries or any of the... Don't look at the little log lines at the bottom.

The log lines are not good. I would say... Don't like some... I'm not saying... Yeah, do you don't like Jedi Knight? It's not... Or Doom? So maybe we're fine.

The nightfall, yeah, right. Doom, look, doom, that implies, maybe that's a, maybe he's fine. They're not saying, yeah, maybe it's a, after the Jedi night comes the doom. Maybe it's doom me. Yeah, they get engaged, they win, they're all going to be fine. Hara, Doom. Hara, doom. Oh, yeah, because they're like, they definitely want to take your name.

Right. And he's like, I wouldn't, please, you don't need to. She's like, I want to. I want to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she definitely doesn't. She would definitely get rid of the same do with name.

You know, you can become Herod Doom and we'll know that you took my name, but no one else will know. Oh, but that'd be cute if they both took it at the same time. Oh, that'd be cute. If they both, if he went back to Doom and, yeah. Yeah, and she took Duke, yeah. Yeah, that would be cute. And then she's like, so how married the Caleb are you? Can you stay Canaan?

Because I fell in love with Canaan. Yeah. Could she become Hara negotiable? Kara Sinduma instead of Sindhula and then it's like they've merged. See, this is the thing, like, like Canaan sort of awkwardly being like, or I could just take your name. Yeah, Canaan Sundula. I'd love to talk to your dad about it. I would love to see if he has any thoughts.

I'm such a big fan. I just, you know, I've always admired you guys so much. I don't know. Bring Cham back. Where's Cham? I need Cham and Saul to talk. I need them to play Dominoes. She's like, hey, babe.

you don't need to wear like twilight garb as much as you do oh my god oh i'm telling you i want to learn about your culture it's bad i thought you do less my culture is i'm a pilot sweetie oh god maybe that's what we're going to get maybe that like again what if like what if What if Kinan starts learning, like, um, learning, uh, yeah, Twilick for her. Oh, that's just speaking with a French accent, right? So it's just like, God, I forgot. I forgot that that's how that way. It's, we only have two episodes of rebels left.

Yeah. We have the Q&A next. Yeah. Oh, by the way, a more civilized age at gmail.com. And also, uh, Patreon.com slash civilized. So next episode, by the end of the next episode, by the end of the next, episode we record it's going to be like marriage not for Kane and Hera and then those last four episodes I'm sure it's just like slice of life anime that's right yeah they're tired out yeah

what if they did as where goes and meets the family what if there's so there's episodes there's 15 episodes of the season the last one's a two-parter what if the first part of the final two-parter is like the Ava fake slice of life episode and it's like what if what if you know what I mean? What if Ezra and Sabine were in school together and Hera was the math teacher and they're complaining? You know what I mean? Incredible. Incredible reverse. Guess who's coming to dinner. Oh, my God. With Zeb bringing Callis to Lasson. To Lassad, right? Uh-huh. To meet the, like, legendary lost Lassad.

That could happen. There's like... That doesn't need to be anything. And he's also like, oh my God, it's such an honor. I love... I love the Lassad. LaSot people so much. Your food is delicious. Look, I've got, I've got this, like, gun, this iconic weapon that was gifted to me by one of your warriors. Oh, yeah. How'd that come about? That could happen.

Underground Fight Club. That's right. Big fan. We're so close. I wish we could just do it all this week. Like, that is how I feel about it. I know. I can rip the Band-Aid off, but it's fine.

We'll get there when we get there. send in your questions about this first half of the season all right until next time please rate and review us on your podcast actually wait I think we'll have recorded these questions these answers by the time this goes out thinking about our recording schedule I don't know this is when I thought this was going to happen

I think we have to already asked people to have listened ahead and sent in or watched ahead and sent in questions because remember when I was making the schedule for how to get this done before and or I hit this thing where I was like wait a second our recording schedule is going to out pace our release schedule, because this episode doesn't come out until next week, which is when we'll be recording. They'll come out next Wednesday, and then we'll record the Q&A next Monday.

So we'll have already recorded the Q&A. Should we switch to Friday? Nah, fine. No, okay. Yeah. We'll just send out a message. Drill in to other stuff. We should just say, if you've already watched ahead, feel free to ask questions about

the upcoming episodes, you know? Mm-hmm. Either way, though. Rate, review us. Tell people about the show. Tell them to start listening as we get ready for Andor. And remember, that's not what Nogri really looked like. They have, like, needle teeth.

They're really cool. You just have to sort of imagine it. It's a vibe of the description. Thank you.