A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 126: Revenge of the Sith (Novel) Pt. 2

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

We return to the final days of the old Republic. But not the Old Republic. That's different, now, that's like... an even older time before all this. Anyway, the Battle of Coruscant has concluded and its heroes, Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi can finally come home for a little rest. And a little scheming. And a little paranoia. The Jedi Council members spin their wheels despite having all the clues. Palpatine spins the world around his finger. And Padme, Anakin's Wife (remember this), is also there. Next Time: The Rest of the Book Show Notes Hosted by Rob Zacny (robzacny.bsky.social) Featuring Alicia Acampora (ali-online.bsky.social), Austin Walker (austinwalker.bsky.social), and Natalie Watson (nataliewatson.bsky.social) Produced by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt (notquitereal.bsky.social Cover art by Xeecee (xeecee.bsky.social)

This is a more civilized age on a recording night. Four friends, if friends is not too small a word, for a podcast of comrades and colleagues, gaze at one another through discord. Physically, they are distant from one another, mentally, united in purpose. They fall into bits through years of practice. They show up late to the recording because they already know they'll be together 15 minutes after they're supposed to start. They are burdened by other responsibilities, other masks they must wear as something other, than co-hosts of a more civilized age.

But once again, if only for two, three, or for the love of God, please, not three and a half hours. They are podcasters. I'm Rob Zakney, joined by Alia Kampura, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. We are, as always, supported by you, our listeners by patreon.com slash civilized.

So head over there if you'd like to support the show and get access to all our Q&A episodes. Boy, are you going to have questions. So we are continuing with the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, which features many such freeze-frame moments as they introduce protagonists. And, you know, it's a memorable device. It's distinctive. It does what it says on the tin. So let's get into what ground we're covered.

Here on tonight's excerpt from the from the book. Treadwife Padmay is one of our major characters here as we get into her marriage. It's so important and so good and so such a cornerstone of who she is. Her marriage to Anakin, who is going through it, who is so angry, so worried and so, so dumb. Oh my god. There's nothing going on up there. There's absolutely nothing going on up there. It's just,

it's dial tone. It's static. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad. It's really bad. It's really, really bad.

Had it worse than this book. I'm fighting for my fucking life. However, I will say Padmae defenders. Yeah. I'm not going to say the words I went at I was thinking but I would not let a Padme lover look at this book I wouldn't it would Oh no that would be to do harm that would be to do harm to that person now I will say though Yoda haters dive right in hey come on in come on in come on doors open the water is warm it is nice

This motherfucker is on nothing This dude doesn't know shit the water is actually heating up fast around the Jedi Council over the course of this section. They have like it feels like two or three meetings that are variations on are we fucked? It feels like pretty fucked. And then later, Obi-Wan is like, hey, so we all agree. We're super fucked, right?

And I was like, yeah, but what are you going to do? What are you going to do about it? Let's break the huddle and see how this plays out. That's right. Listen, man, we were stuck with the plays the offensive coordinator called. We're just going to do what they told us to do. Who's the offensive coordinator? Oh, it's Sheave.

Sheave is our OC. Yeah, we're just got to listen to what he says now. We're just kind of stuck in it. Okay. He's the other. It feels kind of weird that Sheave is both our offensive coordinator, but is also running draft kings. Does that feel weird to anyone else?

Lord. He's got a huge sponsorship from Polly Market. I don't know if that. The heave calls she bets. would give it away. I gotta tell you, man. You know. They would not be good.

Order 66. A lot of action. Weird this is. Oh, God. So, yeah, so we pick up from, we all remember this part. We all remember this part from the movie, and it was uncomfortable then.

It becomes longer and more uncomfortable in this novelization. Anakin lands on Corrasson after pulling off that epic crash landing and sees his wife. And we'll get into that. But anyway, she breaks the news that she's pregnant. And he begins to spiral, has his bad dream, and begins to really worry about how he can possibly save Padme. There's a fun footnote in here somewhere where Matthew Stover concedes that he has to give Anakin some kind of sympathetic. motivation for some of the shit he's going to do because it's really hard with what this guy does

to come up with a sympathetic interpretation of why he's so hellbent on joining the Jedi Council while also saying I don't want to join the Jedi Council. I just want to be a house husband. He does. And that new goal is, ah, maybe I can learn how to say Padmei if I get the access to the Jedi Holocrons. They got the WebMD. They got the WebMD. Nobody else can can do self-diagnosis, only the Jedi can. And as we were just talking about off-mic, the healthcare system on Corrassan, like in America, it's fucked. Six weeks to see a doctor on Corrassant, definitely,

especially if all you have for a referral is a prophecy, is a Jedi prophecy dream. That's not going to get you to the front of the line on Corrassant. So you've got to get access. And don't get me started on the administrative fees. Every goddamn doctor, every goddamn doctor on Corrassant, Admin fee, please.

Concierge fee, please. Concierge, I'm not at a hotel. I'm not out of hotel. I'm trying to make sure. You don't even take my call what I call. At the hotel, I call concierge. They pick up. They talk to someone.

They'll bring me some stuff. They'll tell me the restaurant down the way is not the best one. Go to the one on the other block. You won't say that. They'll say these things to you. Also, Corson is on fire. So, like, maybe your clinic is just like, burnt down.

This is a detail of the book that I don't know that comes across in the movies, but like, Annikin is looking over skyscrapers and being like, I was the one who saved this, or like just things are like all covered in smoke and fog, and it's wild. And he's like, oh, there's embers in the air still, which of course there would be like a giant Star Destroyer on the planet. Yeah, dude. That completely vanishes from the movie. The movie doesn't really feel like that after the opening scene at all.

So you know what? Shout out's there. So there's some like atmosphere to it all. So the Jedi Council doesn't really want to put Anakin on the council, but they do want him to spy on Sheave. Sheev wants to spy on them. We remember this conflict. So they give him a special supernumerary counsel position, but he's not an actual master. He throws an unbelievable tantrum, which is like this is exactly why we don't want you on

counsel and don't think you're a master. And then he storms off. Meanwhile, Padme is getting connected with the proto, the insipient like rebel alliance. But first, they're going to try and derail basically the Chancellor

Palpatine's like war powers resolution that's going to make him dictator for life effectively. So she's getting right into that, but she realizes she can't tell Anakin about how people have suspicions about Sheave because Anakin just loves Sheave so much and as we all know Anakin's tragic flaw is that he just loves so much and so

unguarded and you can't you you cannot break that special birthday boy's heart by by introducing complexities into these situations so you just have to just have to talk around him meanwhile really good at talking around him is of course Palpatine he, over the course of a couple meetings, quickly flips Anakin more effectively than he even does in the movie, really, from being their man on the inside of the chancellor's office to effectively being someone who's just poised and ready to go off on the Jedi,

on the Jedi Council. And so where things leave off is Mace. Mace and a couple other Jedi plus Anakin are staying on the planet. to see if they can get Sidious to break cover. Obi-Wan heading off to run down Grievous. And Yoda going to Kashik. And everyone feels like they fucked up. That their plan kind of has failed.

But again, what are you going to do? And that sort of leaves us off with that faithful night on Corrassant where Phil Collins played and people gazed longingly into the sunset. It feels like it's all about to go down. It really is. You skimmed over two things I think you're probably worth highlighting and we will go into them in more detail, but I want the person who's listening to us, but not reading along to know that these two things also, I think, are important because they're going to bumble

up or bubble up over the, or bumble maybe, over the beginning part of this as we talk because they, I feel like they weigh so heavily as, as, you know, maybe they don't compare to some of the early Padmae stuff, but there's two things. One, one of the big moments for Anakin is that he like spends a night listening to his saddest music going into like meditation mode and deciding all at once that he should be selfish, that he should like stop things outside and start thinking inside. He needs to, and this is like part of what Sheev has convinced him to do, right? Sheev spins a little web of like, now we've all known that person.

who has a bad therapist. I mean, dude, it is 100% it. We've all known that person who's like, so I've realized something. I'm just too giving. Yeah, just too thoughtful and considerate of others. Exactly. And it's time to be a little self-centered. Yes.

And that is what, so that's one big thing. The other, I think, the other big thing towards the end of this is that one of the big levers that she pulls on is, is that he. suggests very gently, not that gently, very manipulatively, that maybe, hey, I heard that Obi-Wan was seen coming out of Padma's apartment this morning. And it sends... An unseemly hour. An unseemly hour.

You're right. To be leaving one's apartment. And it sends Anakin into an anxious rage, the likes of which, you know, anyone who's afraid of being cucked would be proud of. It's a nightmare. The dragon is roaring. Oh, the dragon is roaring. Oh, my God.

Padma, you don't understand. The dragon in me is roaring right now. If you were externalized, you're waiting the dragon. You're making the dragon war. I think those are big. And I think there's other big stuff. But I think those things...

You have to understand about this dragon. It's a huge pussy. That's the thing. Now, you might think. that's a symbol of my inner strength, but not my dragon. My inner dragon really insecure, actually. Just like,

filled with existential dread. The coward dragon in my heart is roaring. It's pretty convinced. Like, you're just going to cheat on them the first chance you get. Like, literally, like, literally, it's like a Renaissance Italian, like, bedroom farce. Like, this dragon is imagining, and if you leave this woman unattended for one second,

and your Jedi best friend is going to be right in there. Your Jenny best friend who, I mean, he doesn't know this, that two pages ago or whatever, Padman was like, you love him too, don't you? And he was like, absolutely, I do. He looked up in the distance. He didn't say anything. That says so much.

It's wild. It's wild. It's wild. This book is so much better at Yowie than it is at whatever is going on between Anakin and Padmay. It knows heterosexual intimacy exists conceptually, but there's no idea how to render it. No, no. Not either. Padma is so sad in this.

The thing, like the fact that like we see like her react to Anakin's anger the way that, like, like someone in abusive relationship would because she's an abusive relationship. And the fact that she relates to that in her perspective of being like, well, he's a tiger and he's nuzzling his cheek against me. And the fact that he's like this wild animal that's willing to like put his his chin in my hand is like such a moment of power and dedication. Like he totally loves me because that there are these moments where he is not willing to abuse me. And it's like, oh my God, girl. This is, I understand. Like if somebody saw Manhunter and was like, no, I really thought it was going to work out for those two. Yeah.

It's insane. I mean, and there's stuff here that does really, you know, I actually don't know if it's good or bad. Because it sucks to see Padme get more screen time in this story and to have her just, I think maybe if she was better in the political parts, I would feel differently. But she sucks there, too. She's not allowed to have any Ws anywhere. Stover is like after a political party. He's like, check out how based Padme is in this political situation. Meanwhile, she's doing nothing.

She's giving absolutely nothing in the political discussion, by the way. And he's like, he's like, don't worry, don't worry. I got you all. I'm going to balance this out. She's going to entirely center her existence around the role. of Anakin Skywalker's wife and baby mama. But, but, but I'm going to bring it back. I'm going to bring it back.

We're going to have a meeting, a meetup with the politicians. She's going to kill it. Oh, she didn't, she didn't kill it. She didn't say any. Oh, no, no, no. Trust me, she's a master of her craft. She's a master politician. It's all good.

We really spent a lot of time during the Clone War show being like, it's so interesting how they let her be the sort of like liberal like isn't ready to do anything because it's because it's not time yet and but she still has like good instinct she can tell something is wrong but she can't bring herself to take the action she needs except for like there are times

like you she's like infiltrating the banking claim like she's an action hero in that show still but you know like the moments on we talk a lot for who are only listening to this and maybe as to all our Clone War stuff you should but you know there's an episode in the Clone Wars where she like learns her maid can't afford

drinking water or whatever clean water on Corrassant And she's like, this has to stop immediately. And it's like, how did you not know that? That's the type of character she's there. Here I thought maybe because this is happening in Revenge of the Sith, we would see a Padme who had some urgency. But she's like the brakes. She like slams on the brakes in every political scene she's in.

We'll get into it. So that's not great. Well, it's also just like there's nowhere else to center her but her relationship with Anakin. So in every single political scene we get, her internal dialogue. is completely about Anakin. Like every single time she has a thought that, like, could be anything. The only thing she's, like, begging with her eyes, don't make me lie to my husband. Like, that is the only political motivation that she has.

Like, I just want to be with Anakin and that's it. And not any of this, like, bigger picture things that we should believe. And we know from these other media things that, like, she should be bought into and be capable of. and just isn't here. Yeah, she really, well, we should, we should just get there and get it all the way into it. The pregnancy announcement actually

is like touching some of it as well. So, you know, the crash landing finishes, it should be all yubnub, and people are celebrating, but it's not like that at all. That's a person. No,

no, Nia Numb is a person. That's the Selection pilot. Yubnub is the Ewok victory. song and that's right you would expect that to be like blasting from like every every radio and chorus on but it's not because like there's this gloom hanging over the story the Jedi Council's concerned about the direction this is all headed um makes when you see was to have read the script of this of this movie and he's constantly just like I think this whole war was actually

concocted by the Sith anyway maybe we need to read that like well I don't know if we like I'm not sure this book justifies like we should read a lot more of these novels released around this. But apparently there's a book where he just like, a bit like the episode where fives figures it out. There's like a book where

Mace basically does find the script for he needs like how to serve mankind for dinner. And like he just sees it. And so he's carrying that knowledge under the story. But Anakin is just like,

oh, where's my wife? My wife. Where's my wife? It's been five months. It's been five months. it's been five months that's fair

I'm gonna give him that he's been at war he has he's been at war on the front lines he just crashed a fucking ship on courthot like let's he just he was in perilous perilous situations

okay sorry okay but but the particular things he's thinking are so why was she here had something he could hardly breathe he couldn't make himself even think it He couldn't stop himself from thinking it. Had something changed for her and how she felt? He specifically jumps to, what if she doesn't love me anymore?

Which is, of course, like, the center of this Anakin representation or this Anakin version is like, he is the most scared man in the galaxy. No one has ever worried as much as him. Have you ever read the poems of Cotillas? He was the wisest of the Romans. And his words have all the wisdom you need to navigate this relationship. The other, so then 3PO shows up, though, and is like, Master Anakin, Padmei wants to get it tonight. And which is like, feels very unthrepeo. My job was on the floor where he's like arranging just a night of like no holds barred.

Well, I mean, it's like, well, hang on, these two, we don't need to worry about barring any holds. It's going to be unsatisfying missionary for everyone. But it's one of the tragedies of this. book is that, you know, this Padme, she was hoping to get that orgasm somewhere down the road, but that never happened for her. You know, maybe we could have gotten there, but not in this version of the story. She didn't have the luck that the Clone Wars Padme did that backs that was like that bad boy. Yeah. We're skipping a really important Anakin beat here because there are these like flash. Where he's jealous of her unborn child? There are these flashes of anger from him,

that come through lightning sometimes in the prose. And one of them is here where he goes from, is she dead to, oh, she's working, and how dare she be working and not here with me? And like, it's just like, you know, I think it's described in the book as like a like red flash over him that he like hates the council because how dare it like bring him away from her.

And it's just like half a page. Yeah, it just of like, this just like this cluster of like, I am so angry about nothing in this moment, but like the anger is so complete. And I think we get maybe three or four of these moments throughout Anakin and this. And like, this being the first one and it being so petty of like, how dare she be working instead of waiting for me at that thing. It's just like, wow, man. I just, I like it a lot. Yeah. It is like, it's pretty. bad. His, like, his conviction that, uh, well, the only reason that maybe her feelings changed.

Uh, and then, yes, like how I hate the Senate. They're always taking my wife. Well, like, literally, I actually think it's kind of funny, but like kind of good, too. That his fascist inclination is partly just due to jealousy that like, he's jealous that Padme's attention is on the galactic Senate and not on him. it's pretty remarkable. You have been at war for five months. She has a job.

She's been doing other stuff. That's important. I mean, we don't, maybe it's not that important, given the way everything's going. But she believes it's important. And it's important to her, even if she's not necessarily making all the right moves,

you know? So then, then for me, this was the thing that, like, my job was on the floor. And Padme is like, oh, this is so good. This is romantic.

We're on such good footing, y'all like let me hang on i can't wait to post to you my instagram account like uh just you know how important it is to choose the right man exactly exactly uh someday you're gonna have to tell we've been through hell and back together it's been some of the worst times ever and then some of the best times ever but no matter what we always stuck together we always girl get out of that relationship so there's a moment as she's winding up to tell him about the pregnancy where he becomes convinced

there's someone else. Because she says, I can't remember the exact line, but like, she introduced the idea that there is a new life for, yes. Like, to imply the baby, but then he like freaks. It's so bad. You're cheating on. Like, he goes straight to, you're cheating. Yeah, I'm going to, I'll read it to you here.

So they're going back and forth, and then he says, and it always comes back to politics for you, Anakin said. His smile had gone now. I'm barely even home, and you're already trying to talk me into going back to the war. This isn't about politics, Anakin. It's about you. Something has changed, hasn't it? Thunder gathered in his voice. I felt it.

Even outside, something has changed. She lowered her head. Everything has changed. What, what is it? He took her by the shoulders now, his hands hard, and, you know, irresistibly powerful. There's someone else. I can feel it in the force.

There's someone coming between us. Not the way you think, she said. Anakin, listen. Who is it? Who? Stop it, Anakin. Stop. You'll hurt us.

His hands sprang open as though she had burned him. He took an unsteady step backwards. His face suddenly ashen. Padmay, I would never. I'm sorry, I just. He leaned on the pillar and brought a hand weakly to his eyes. The hero with no fear. What a joke. Padme, I can't lose you. I can't. You're all I live for. Wait. He lifted his head frowning quizzically. Did you say, us? She reached for him. And he came to meet her hand. Rising tears burned her eyes and her lip trembled. I'm Annie. I'm pregnant. He's happy about it. Well, I guess it says every emotion cycles it was mind in his face. Dude, he ain't going to be happy about it. He's going to be jealous of his babies.

Like, if this, if this doesn't go wrong, if this doesn't go super bad, he's going to be like, oh, nursing again, I see. All right. The first emotion was, was wild, almost explosive joy in the cycle. Let's, like, I think that to give, to give something here. You do not have to hand it to him, Natalie. I'm not handing him anything. I'm not handing him anything. I hate this idea of like him believing that Padme would be like...

Like unfaithful? Unfaithful, yeah, because it's just, it's so ungrounded. In outside of him just being an insecure person and it manifesting in this particular way, there's like, nothing about the relationship that we've seen between Anakin in Padmae that would suggest anything but like undying loyalty to each other. So it, it just, it's hard for me to get on the like fear of being cheated on train with Anakin because I just, I don't really, outside of him being just generally insecure and that it, it, propagates through this way.

Yeah. I guess that's, that's, that's an option. That's possible. But, um, but I do think the idea that like, he gets to, like,

the one, the biggest thing he's lost in his life is his mother, is his family. Um, and the idea that like, he has a chance to, build that unit again with someone he loves so dearly, I think does, is a huge motivator for him and is like a thing that brings him incredible joy. But as well, the fear of losing such a thing,

of those things, those people being vulnerable, being unprotected. Like, I think it, the stakes are so high for him that it makes the the fear all the more powerful and overwhelming um yeah i i would also say like i think what you know

the canonical like pad may anakin relationship it's kind of wild that he would have these fears of like her immediately turn around being unfaithful this guy actually should probably be afraid of being cheated on though this is like this this exact Ack's

Anakin, though. Like, look, this is not a popular opinion, but some people deserve to get cheated on. And, like, it is, it is kind of this sort where it's like, well, I'm emotionally abusive and controlling, and I make this person feel unsafe around me,

but they can't be honest about what they're going through. That's, like, one of those, like, hmm, you know, I don't really condone it, but at the same time, I can't get too mad at Padme. Take what comfort you can. Right. I would not be losing my mind at Padme doing that.

Yeah. So like Anakin, this version of Anakin may be sort of dialed in on the fact that like, damn, I do suck though. Hmm. You know? Well, the thing that's so tough is a page or two before this is where we get the vision of what this Padma is. And she is above all other things, Anakin Skywalker's wife. Hey, awesome. I hate to make you read another passage. But can you-

Somebody else want it? You are, does somebody else happen on? No, no, no, no. I want you. Because you know what passage is talking about. It'll take me minutes to look it up, but I'm looking at it right now. Give me that taste. This is how this is, so as a reminder, again, people who are reading, every once in a while we get these freeze frames in the book where somebody says this, or the Stover says, this is character.

And I think this is the one to read for her. This is Padmey Amadala. She is an astonishingly accomplished young woman who in her short life has already been the, youngest ever elected queen of her planet, a daring partisan gorilla, and a measured, articulate, and persuasive voice of reason in the Republic Senate. But she is, at this moment, none of these things. She can still play at them. She pretends to be a senator. She still wields the moral authority of a former queen, and she's not shy about using her reputation for fierce physical courage to her advantage and political debate, but her inmost reality, the most fundamental,

unbreakable core of her being is something entirely different. She is Anakin Skywalker's wife. Yet wife is a word too weak to carry the truth of her. Wife is such a small word, such a common word, a word that can come from a downturned mouth with so many petty unpleasant echoes. For Padma Amadala saying, I am Anakin Skywalker's wife, is saying neither more nor less than I am alive. Her life before Anakin belonged to someone else, some lesser being to be pitied,

some poor, impoverished spirit who could never suspect how profoundly life should be lived. Her real life began the first time she looked into Anakin Skywalker's eyes and found in there not the uncritical worship of little Annie from Tatouine, but the direct, unashamed smoldering passion of a powerful Jedi. A young man to be sure, but every centimeter a man, a man whose legend was already growing within the Jedi order and beyond. A man who knew exactly what he wanted

and was honest enough to simply ask for it. A man strong enough to enroll his deepest feelings before her without fear and without shame. A man who had loved her for a decade with faithful and patient heart while he waited for the act of destiny he was sure would someday open her own heart to the fire in his. This is why we baited at these things, folks.

Yeah. Yeah. I want to be clear when she says, I want to be clear, when she says, or when the book says, when she looked into Anakin Skywalker's eyes, she does mean the 17 or 18 or 19. Yeah. That is right. Just to be clear. Matthew Stover is having to do some work here.

Because he knows, like that. He stumbles over that. Her life began when she was, okay. Her life didn't begin when she looked in an addict. Okay, so like imagine Annie is someone totally different. And obviously she didn't feel any of this when she looked at that kid. Right. But later.

That's right. Okay. So we haven't seen the movies, but like imagine a version of this that's like convincingly smoldering. And like, yeah. Yeah. I imagine she knew it once. I want to read the passage that Allie referred to earlier because I think it's so important to hold it also

with this previous passage that Austin just read just two paragraphs after Austin left off he is a wild creature who has come gently to her hand a vine tiger purring against her cheek

every softness of his touch every kind glance or loving word is a small miracle in itself how can she not be grateful for such gifts This is so rough. Because basically, Padme Padme is in

the relationship with like the cannon fire spitfire just like uncontrollable guy, the bad guy, but he's only nice to her and like shouldn't she be so grateful that she's the one that gets that gets the tamed version of him it's like like a very classic trope and I think as well we're seeing her at the stage of an abusive relationship where one's like entire identity becomes consumed

by the anxieties, the highs and lows of the relationship itself and of the other person of the abuser in the relationship. And like, I believe that her job isn't important to her in this, at this stage of her life. I've seen. She's not thinking about the Republic. Like she's completely consumed by how will Anakin react to this? Like she is also so driven by fear. And like her only solace is the immediate moment where she can see that Anakin is doting on her.

Or is like in a positive like affectionate mood. But it's so inconsistent and so unstable that she's. in a constant state of anxiety and fear, wondering how will this impact Anakin, how will he react, how will I then, you know, be on the receiving end of it? It's like, it's, she's totally consumed by this other person's volatility. And it's just, it's like, it's like, it's one way to paint, uh, this stage of their relationship. I don't like it because I think that at least in the movie, I do believe more that that version of Padme still,

and listen, there's half a book left, but that version of Padme that like is confronted with Anakin in these difficult moments where he's, you know, saying things that are incredibly challenging or tense or like I still, there is a part of Padme that still seems to like be rational in that she she realizes she's losing control

like not control of him but like losing the type of relationship that she maybe had once wished for that was like more of a balanced you know loving relationship and in that like he is straying away from her own ideals and her own values.

And there's just no presence of her of her own interiority outside of Anakin here. Yeah. Well. And that is, I think, what I really struggle with. It is just so centered around Anakin, which is a place she could be. But I really think it's just very one-dimensional for Padme. Well, so the thing that I Like

Here's Here's where I have a lot of sympathy for Stover though He hasn't seen the third movie What we've seen that the romance He's an attack of the clones Like one of the worst Star Wars movies And one of the most Awkward

Horrifying, darkly weirdly comic Romances in film. It's just, it's, it is fucking weird. It's a mess, yeah. And so, like, this is a, I guess, how do you inhabit the space? Like, he's working from a shooting script that he has seen. And then attack of the clones, a movie in which he comes home blubbering about having

massacred a village, men, women, and children. and she marries him after that. Like so like there is to a degree this is actually, I think, a pretty deep, like, it's weird to us because we've seen the third movie. We've seen, we've watched Clone Wars. We've seen different versions of these characters. But what it is consistent with is just the absolute bonkers. Like, why would you do this? This is just weird.

But how about be the change you want to see in the world? How about write the female, like, write the female character not as like a one-dimensional, like, a woman in an abusive relationship? It just, to me, I get that he didn't have great material to go off of. He talks about being written into corners. He does. in the footnotes. A lot in the footnotes. Even in what we had mentioned before about

how do we make Anakin sympathetic? How do we make his drive for power for his like incestant need to be a Jedi master to be made a Jedi master? How do we make that something that we want for him? And the way he does it is through the access to the holocrons that are, supposedly going to save Padmae from the vision he has, which we haven't talked about yet,

but you know it from the movie. Yeah. From what we've seen of Anakin's, like, visions, they've come true in these horrible, horrible, horrific ways. And so, like, I can, I, I, Stover has earned my sympathy for Anakin here in that he has, he sees this terrible vision of Padmay. I, I buy this, like, un- unrelenting motivation to figure out a way to prevent this from coming true.

I buy that Anakin believes with his whole heart that this is, that this is going to manifest. I just wish he had done something for Padmei to. Yeah. Yeah. She deserves what Obi-Wi-W-W-Has. She does deserve what Obi-1 has. Like, is it a problematic kind of weird relationship?

Yeah, is it also kind of sweet and intense? Yeah. And she's going on. Yeah. Yes, he has other things going on. He has other pressures, like other people he is responsible to. And I just, it's hard to see Padmay's life as a politician takes such a huge backseat to her mind just revolving entirely around her relationship with Anakin. Yeah. The thing I think about the two things.

One is I think a lot about other depictions of women in abusive or potentially abusive relationships and how even men who are writing these characters can do well by them. I was going to compare her to Shelly from Twin Peaks as being like, oh, her whole life revolves around these abusive men. But Shelly from Twin Peaks gets some agency and gets some interiority. obviously we're not getting like voiceover from her or whatever, but the camera lets her do things. The stories let her do things that are her own things. The second thing is I think the answers are kind of sometimes in the footnotes here. We get the one that we already kind of, I think, gestured at, which is the second one, at the end of this, this is Padmey section. Stover says of, she is more now than ever, Anakin Skywalker's wife.

He says, like, I know how this sounds. Believe me, I do. this is supposed to be about how Padmay feels, not who she is, groundwork for the death by heartbreak thing. So like that goes back to Natalie, as you framed it from the jump actually, which is she feels this. And Rob, I think you were getting at this too, which is like, it's interesting to have a version of Padmey that's driven by the sort of like blinders on obsession with or with her bad husband. But I do think the other half of it, the first footnote in this section, he says like, I mean, what he actually says is. like, Padme never got the screen time that the boys got, which is such a funny way of saying it, the boys.

The boys do get more screen time in the story. You're right, Matt. But that, that he says, like, I had to draw on, Sith Wars are for the boys. That's right. He says, I had to draw on two other, I had to draw on other things to try to fill in who she was for this kind of like free stream bio. And she says the, he says the second one is that this quote unquote astonishingly accomplished young woman is going to straight.

up dive a broken heart, which kind of like sounds a little bit like he's throwing shade at the stunning, stunningly accomplished young woman thing. It's like, however accomplished she is, the core of who she is is, is she dies from a broken heart, quote unquote, you know, we'll get there eventually in this book. I'm very curious how that's handled. But the other thing that he was able to draw on was the implicit fact about Padme was that, after all, she's Luke and Leah's mom. One of the twins shared traits is the openheartedness. And I figure they probably wouldn't have gotten that from Anakin. I actually don't know that that's true.

I think that's a complete mystery. That is a, that is a, yeah. Like, he latches on the things fast and hard. And that is his fatal flaw. But it is like one of also his tragic,

like his tragic virtues as well. Yes. Which by the way, remember, that's the thing he fucked up with the dragon. Well, the thing that they told him about the dragon was like, no, dude, he's driven by fear, not by anger.

And that's what he had to go back and fix. And here it feels like it's the same, mistake that he's like, oh, yes, Luke and Leah must have gotten their compassion and their open-heartedness from their mom. And it's like, you know, I am not, I am, I am, if we, if I have to err in one direction, which we all have to do with this question, I err towards nurture over nature, right, admitting that there are, of course, many things that are about our DNA and everything else. What I know we can control for is upbringing and attention and access and all these other things. We, they didn't know Leah. You know, let's, you know, let's, you know,

what you're telling me is Leah has some, sorry, they didn't know Padma. Laya didn't know Padmae, Luke didn't know Padmae. She was not their mom who taught them how to be openhearted than kind. I know that maybe the midaclorians separate this world from ours, but unless she had special openheartedness midaclorians, I don't know that that's where they got their kindheartedness. But I do think that when you conceive of her in that way, when you have to make, okay, what do we know about Padman? Oh, she's the mom of Luke and Leah. And I think you can do this schematically. You can say, I want the reader to see Luke and Leah in her.

I want the echo of that of them to show up in her because, you know, structurally she is one of their parents. I get that. But I do think that, like, that's a very limited vision of Padme and it grounds it in motherhood and in this kind of like biological function and in her relationship with Anakin. We have seen the other version of Padme, which is the Padmae who is interested in the politics stuff and is struggling to balance that with Anakin. And here that struggle exists, but it loses instantly from the first scene

that she does the politics stuff. The fight is, like, I think that's my point with this version of Padme is that the fight is already lost. We're at like the final stage here. And like maybe that makes sense because it's the,

it's the final book. It's tragic. It sucks. It's tragic. It sucks. But it, it just feels. bad for her not to have attention

that she's fighting against, that everyone else is. Like, Anakin has this, like, internal fight that he's struggling with, obviously. Obi-Wan is struggling with trying to, you know, balance his duty as a Jedi and then his love for Anakin as a friend. And it just feels like Padme has already resigned the fight. Like the fight is not there. Well, it just feels like it's not like there is an opportunity for this other, these other aspects of Padmaid's life, right? Like for us to say like, oh, Obi-Wan has other things going on.

Like Padmae also has other things. Like we literally see her in Senate secret Senate meetings. And like, you know, the high drama, the big camp of this book, like, it should feel like Padmey is making moves against Anakin that she doesn't realize. she is. Like the drama that I want from this is the Romeo and Juliet sense that like Padme is buying the poison vial while Anakin is moving in a different direction and like the tragedy of that all. But like by not letting Padme actually move in a direction of her own, it just like, you know, there there should be these three chess pieces that are like Padme is doing this, the Jedi Council is doing this and then Palpatine is doing this. And like,

Like, Anakin is kind of bouncing between all of these things in the way that we see it in the structure of the book. So to like just make Padmae's like paddle of this not have any give back to that. So it's like an actual triangle and like sort of feels high tension all of the time. It just feels like a failure. Like it just, it could be. That's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah, especially because it could feel like if the.

book let her own those moments a bit more where it's like a husband or not like father of my child or not this has to be done um that becomes cool but the way these sequences are written i can't stop like seeing her as like a trad life influencer yeah like every single moment is like her staring sadly into a cell phone camera and like crying and then text appears like I have to stop the rise of fascism in the republic but all I want to do is submit to my husband yeah and like her thoughts constantly in those scenes you know and to the degree that actually before she's even in one of those scenes bail or monmouthma is like I don't know we should bring Padman on this I don't think she has it like that.

She's always so distracted. She's always tied to this other stuff. And then, and then, you know, that's, you know, like you said, Ali, if she could have been the third paddle, she could have had her own angle on all of this and then Anakin was being pulled into it. I think that produces a different effect than what we get here. And unfortunately, what we end up just getting is that she has, I mean, here's the other part of this that's really hard.

Part of why it kind of works in Clone Wars is because we have a long amount of time. and she gets to do stuff that isn't always directly opposed by Palpatine. Palpatine's winning this book, and he's winning at this point. He's winning at every possible angle. And so he has to win, for some reason, in this version of it, even in the scenes where the proto-rebellion is starting to get together, he has to have already made the great chess play because I don't think we're getting pivot Palpatine here. We're getting Plotter Palpatine here.

And so even by the time she's involved in it, he's already checkmate. her by making her worried about Anakin who's worried about her. And so because it's all the moment of it all falling apart, we don't get the thing that we got in Clone Wars, which was like, week after week, month after month, season after season of a Padmei arc where she gets to go do something. She gets to go to Alderan. She gets to go to Charlie Tunaville and go try to be a hero there. And listen, we know that all that was not great, but some of it allowed her to have an end that wasn't simply Anakin related, you know?

And then we did get the ones that were very Anakin related. And even in those, you know, we take about things like, um, uh, not Luxemontary. What's the, what's her Luxemontary's name? Oh. Um, uh, Rush Clovis. Yes. I hate that I know this.

The Rush Clovis arcs where it's like, oh, I had this X from, from teen UN. Summer camp. From summer camp. Um, those allowed her to actually be like, Anakin, chill out. I am not cheating on you. And I have to go do this important thing. And I think that the time crunch of this probably maneuvered, helps to maneuver the story and push you into a position where you're like, okay, well, I have to make sure it's clear that

she's not going to win right now. And I think that that actually does a disservice because a version of this where she gets a couple of dubs along the way and they're focused on what she's interested in actually probably enhances the tragedy in the end. Instead, we get a character who so far is not particularly she doesn't come out of these scenes looking like she would have been an effective member of an ongoing resistance against the empire that is built

I think that's a shame she begs explaining to people why she regrets premarital sex with Rush Clovis because she realized only years later because it disrespected her husband I hate it it's it's

just going off of what you just said also there's there's points in the political discussions where she's like actively saying like do not tell me this do not share this with me I don't want to know I don't want to be involved like she's she's removing herself from the situation from the political tension constantly do we want to just talk about those scenes yeah I think you should because it goes into the the final scene with them and in Palpatine which is kind of like a nice wrap up but Yeah, bail and Mon Mothma get together to try and figure out who they can recruit from the Senate to sponsor a 2,000 signature strong petition. I mean, that's the Republican had no bomb. It's so funny, dude.

We need a change.org to stop fascism. Okay, but let's be clear. They might have wanted more than that. But Padman was like, well, we can't talk about open resistance. She may have talked them down into the 2000, the letter of 2000 or whatever. Because they very much are like, I don't know, I'll try to find the exact exchange here, but there is something in there that very much is, is, yeah, she said, Mon Mothwood Baylor talking. And Bail is like, it's time, it's time to stop talking.

the time to start doing. We have to bring in the Senate. They go and they meet. And in that meeting is where she is like, wait a second, we can't use words like fight. You sound like a separatist because bail is like it's time to start fighting. Otherwise democracy will disappear. And Padmey makes the case in this meeting that let me tell you what the stakes are. He has gotten increasing amounts of control and authority.

He's placing his own governors on planets now. They run the planets instead of the Senate running the planet. So it's not a locally elected figure. It's an appointed governor. And he also has gained increased control over the Jedi and over the entire war. The clones now report directly to him instead of reporting to the Jedi who report up to him or work with him in some sort of collaborative way. And the crux of this is theoretically, those powers will stop once the war is over, once we're not in an emergency, once the crisis is over. But they have identified that he controls, like, literally in terms of the mechanism of the policy when the crisis is over.

So as long as he doesn't say that it is, the crisis will continue and he will continue to keep his emergency powers. And so they're like, listen, that's not good enough. We have to do something. And Monmothma says it has become increasingly clear that Palpatine has become an enemy of democracy. He must be stopped. The Senate gave him these powers, Padmay said. The Senate can rein him in. And another guy says, I think you're underestimating how deeply the sentence corruption is taken hold.

Who would ever vote against him? I will, said Padmay. She discovered that she meant it. And I'll find others too. And like, that's her big vision is I'm going to get 2,000 people to say we're going to vote against you. Otherwise, or or else. Like, there's no real threat there. And throughout all of that, it's just she's the one weaseling them away.

from beginning to build the rebel alliance in this version of the story, right? Like, Bail and Monmouthma and these other people, Gideon, Danu, and Fengs are, they are like ready to... They're actually kind of cool. Like, there's some real talk getting dropped in here. Yeah.

By the other senators. Yeah. I don't know that the Monmouthma we eventually learned to meet in Andor and in rebels fits with this Monmouth who seems to be ready to do some shit now. At least do more than the sort of like we'll leave it up to the Senate stuff.

You know, so it's interesting to see this version of Padme, who is the one who is like, she won't even, like you said, Natalie, she literally says stuff like, don't say that in front of me. Because internally, she's afraid of lying to Anakin about this stuff, which is fine. I think that that's fine. I think it's fine that she should be afraid of lying about it. But I think it's kind of, it's a bummer that that's the place that she gets positioned. You can imagine a version of this where she's trying to rally the troops and no one, everybody else too afraid of Palpatine.

And she's like, what is it with this guy? He has his hold over all of my Senate peers. She has a hold over Anakin. The only other person who can reach Anakin like Palpatine is me and maybe Obi-Wan. And that goes back to your kind of paddle, your three, your triangle alley. And like that would be so much stronger. But instead, she is the one literally holding back the anti-Palpatine force in these scenes. Because she also like love.

and admires palpity. Like, she talks about palphe in these conversations, she talks about how, well, one, she talks a lot about his relationship with Anakin and, like, he's been such a good friend to him and, and, like, you know,

this kind of, like, mentor and everything. But she talks about how, you know, or it's referenced how he was the ambassador when she came, you know, when she became queen and that they have this longstanding, relationship and that, you know, they've, they've worked together for so long. I don't have the passage in front of me.

But it's like she's also kind of positioned as being under Palpatine's thumb as well. Like, she's in his orbit. She's also a part, like of the gravitational. Exactly. And that I do resent because. We've seen, I mean, Stover hasn't seen, but, like, we have a version of Padme who has, like, challenged Palpatine in, you know, various episodes of the Clone Wars. And, like, that is also her role as, like, as the senator from Nabu, she's, there's no one

better positioned to take a stand against to Chancellor Palpatine because of the proximity of their working relationship. If anything, like, that is one of the most impactful people to potentially come out as someone that has worked so closely with him to say, actually, I do think that we need to challenge the boundaries here and like the martial law and, you know, emergency

laws that Palpatine has enacted here. And I say this as a colleague of his. And that would be like a great position for her to take. And she's just so wrapped up in fear that, I mean, even in the meeting with Palpatine, it's such a week showing. Because they get the letter. They get the 2000 signatures.

They get the 2000 signatures. and at this point, we'll have to zoom backwards to get to this, but at this point, Anakin is Palpatine's, like, his man on the inside, he's gotten a position on the council without voting power, but as a representative of Palpatine. And Palpatine asks Anakin to join him for a meeting that he's going to have with a bunch of senators who he believes are conspiring against him. And what he wants Anakin to be there for is to use his Jedi sensitivities, his force abilities to just to keep an eye out for the vibes of this situation.

You always know when someone sucks, Anakin. And lo and behold, the meeting is with his wife. The meeting is with his wife. Yeah. As well as bail and a couple of the other senators. And they just get rolled in that meeting, basically. It's bad. It's really bad.

So, well, like, there is one other funny thing, though, is the turn here. So we're all agreed, like, Anakin's cuck fear is totally unfounded. I mean, right now, right now. Except Stover finds a kernel of something during when the senators are asking, like, we shouldn't talk to, like, he sets this up quite well. Nobody tries. None of the people who need to be talking to each other are talking to each other. None of the people need to trust each other, trust each other.

From the position of the Senate, the Jedi have been working fist in glove with Palpatine for years. They've assisted his rise. And then I do love the one senator. who's like, the moral authority the Jedi has been spent with the lifeblood of the army over the past, like, five years.

Which is pretty like, yep, that has happened. But Padmey's like, I know a Jedi we can trust absolutely. A Jedi who would never betray us. And then her in her monologue. And then she realized

she did not mean Anakin. That ripped. She meant Obi-Wan. She sure does. did. She sure did. And I'm just saying, again, like, on A.O.3, I'll tell you what's going to happen after this. I mean, it's so funny to me that, you know, when we watched these movies, we talked about this, this fan theory, right, that Padme and Obi-Wan were secretly hooking up. We talked about this at least there. Maybe we ended up talking about during the Clone Wars, too.

It's so funny that it maybe originates in this book, because this book comes out before the movie, right? It would be so easy to imagine being a fan reading this book, being like, oh my God, there are going to be scenes where like, Obi-Wan and Padma kind of like have that energy where they like trust each other more deeply than- I miss who used to be so much, me too. And that, yeah, exactly. They're like, they're like longing for good Annie. Yeah, by, yeah, sleeping with each other. I just think it's very funny. That became a very popular fan theory about that movie, but it's basically here explicitly as a Sith plot against them

against them all. So, you know, go with your hearts though. I'm good with people who wanted that to happen. I think it's fine. I think I'm merged in the movie just because like performances are so bad that like you and McGregor and Natalie Portman

it's like, whoa, there's like real emotion here. And it's like, yeah, yeah, there is. That's the other thing there, Rob, to go back to he hasn't seen the movie yet is he, I guess he doesn't know that Natalie Portman is not going to come across like this in that movie. I guess she doesn't I guess you're right

I was gonna say he should have known better because Natalie Portman doesn't come across like that as a person or as an actress but I guess in the attack of the clones it's so rough that she does I want to die since I met me or something

like yeah there is also the one other she's so young she's so young and so like Stockholm syndrome their relationship in that movie that like

to like the direct threat from there to here, I finally see it now. Like, it is coming into clarity. There's the other, one other Padmae scene here to just mention quickly, which is that she and Anna can have a big political talk one night. It's in the middle of him being bounced around these different groups, the Jedi and the chancellorship and her. He comes home and he's like, I hate being used by all these different people, what's

going on. And they have like a version of the fascism meme talk here. in which he's at one point he is like why are we even what's what's this even about what are we even fighting for what about all of this is worth saving and she like tries this is the one time she really tries

she tries to just gently open the door to be like hmm yeah interesting sometimes I wonder if we're on the wrong side of this conflict he's like what did you say the wrong side no the chancellor is my boy the chancellor is the only father I've ever

Like you couldn't possibly mean that and she's like you just said what are we fighting for and he's like I just those aren't those just words I don't mean that that's not what I meant and like blows up at her briefly until she of course touches him because like in six scenes in this reading she can just like sue she can sue the tiger she can sue the vine tiger masculine rage that's right like yeah a woman's role is to sooth yeah and and and she likes doing that she likes her life being because like Like, you know what's better than having like an actual secure good relationship? The rush of endorphins you get when it's not going to explode in danger and violence. That's just like love, really. There's the, and all of that includes a, you know, there's a section where, where he is going on about and this will be, this will dominate the rest of our probably discussion about this is he's consumed by feeling like everyone is asking him to be the superhero, the poster boy, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, person who can solve everything, the chosen one.

Everyone wants something from me. And then eventually where this gets is her being like, can we just pretend for a little while that we're back on Nabu and there were no politics and there was no war? There was just us. Girl, when was that? Like, I know there was like the three scenes. He had one fucking arms.

It was off screen. It was a different weekend in Nabu. where it was actually really chill and they had a nice time. It was just we weren't there. We weren't there. I guess before the... Remember you were learning to use your prosthetic canned

because Duke you just chopped it off like two days earlier in Gianosis? Maybe that's before Gionosis but after like what does she mean while you were my bodyguard? Because that was literally a week of your life. That was on Khorasan.

They never went to NABU or did they? No, they do. They go to NABU to sneak away. Yeah, with the pair. But that's before they're married. That's the pear scene. Yeah, that's the floating pair scene.

I got to tell you, girl, if the one good time in your relationship was the first week you were together, look, get out. The thing is, and I think of this book actually does okay with this, both of these characters are so young. They're so young. They have no, like, she's like, but now he's a man who knows what he wants. she's describing like an 18 year old and she is like a 23 or 24 year old as she's like describing this like and as now a mature woman who's come into her own

I can see who this guy is super clearly and so there is a bit of this where it's like because you're effectively still a baby and it's like don't you remember this so funny thing M.K. and I, shortly before the movie, got to reminiscing. And both of us had in our heads a timeline of our relationship where before we got together,

we had like at least months, like an entire summer of like becoming closer and closer friends before like I asked her out and we get together. We never actually tallied up how long that was. But as we talked through it and various milestones along that summer, what we realized is we were describing about maybe six weeks, tops, tops. Like, and maybe not even that. It's possible. It is possible that between us laying eyes and each other for the first time and us moving in together about like five weeks transpired of like. of getting to know each other.

And it was mortifying because we both had labored under this delusion of like, oh, we were circling around each other for so long. It was such a like a lengthy courtship. We really knew who each other were before we ever like took a chance on like maybe turning it into something else.

Because that's how it felt when you're 20 is like, oh my God. We were like, oh, it was just so endless as we just orbited each other. And it was like, oh, the entire season, entire summer of yearning before finally one of us confessed our feelings. And then basically you realized the entire thing happened between like the 4th of July and your birthday.

And like that's that's it. That's basically, that's the courtship. And it's like, but we both were certain. It was like, it was like three months, right? No, six weeks. And I think that comes through with these characters where it's like, oh, my God. God, do you remember how good things were back on Naboo? And it's like, girl, that was a weekend.

Yeah. Like, that was a field trip. It's so funny to hear you tell this wholesome version of this read into the Padmaid and Anacin's relationship because I was like, yeah, when I was 17 and in an abusive relationship, the one time we went to Six Flags was carrying like the six months of torture that we were doing. Why can't we go back to Six Flags?

Why can't we go back to Six Flags? We were so much fun. We had so much fun at Six Flags. Why are you berating me and why is this relationship so terrible? But Six Flags was so fun. That's what I feel like Naboo. was. Nubu was six flags

and... I just wish we could climb their magic mountain again. You know? They closed Superman. Can't even go on it anymore. You can't go to Superman anymore? Wow. Superman's closed. So is my heart. Too dangerous. So is my heart. Also, these two people spend

extreme amounts of time away from each other. True. In the course of their relationship in the course of how long they have known each other, they have spent more time apart than they have together, both like from when they first met to when they met the second time, to actually engaging in a relationship and getting married.

Like they were just away from each other for five months. They don't live together. They don't live together. She doesn't understand that he doesn't clean up. She doesn't understand that he actually is going to get under her skin. You know, like the distance is actually a very useful thing for keeping this relationship. Because if they had to live together, maybe he would chill out if he could live, who knows, right? But I actually suspect that it has extended the life of the relationship.

Why are you yelling at me? I'm building you a new droid. Right. Oh, you don't want a new droid? Oh, excuse me, not about finishing the new droid in one day. I was going to try to make you a new droid. But here you are on my ass again about the dining room being full of droid parts. Yeah.

Why don't you hold a Senate committee meeting about it? I don't feel like they spend quality time together. I kind of feel like they just, I feel like they just fuck and then he leaves. Then he goes to war. This is my point. She hasn't learned what he would actually be like on a random Tuesday afternoon. That's, I think the entire problem with their relationship is that they just fuck. They talk about how much they're in love.

That's the other thing. Right. They talk about like how faded this was and like my God, remember Naboo? Oh my God. I remember Nabu. Remember the first time we saw each other after you were no longer Jake Lloyd, Kyle Lacker? Oh my God, I do. I do.

Oh, that's so good. And so those are the two things. It's like have sex, reminisce about six flags, talk about how destined you are as a couple. And then bye. Yep. And I think that's how we get to hear. I think that's the natural, this is the natural culmination of that type. of relationship.

You're here. You're both insecure. You're both terrified of each other and of the world and of everything. Like, no wonder. You haven't, like, gone to the grocery store together yet. You don't even know who, what the other person loads the dishwasher like. And if it's your style or a different style. And that's some shit you need to figure out fucking fast because resentment's fester.

Why are, how, tell me how you think this ball is going to get clean. I just, I am just curious. What's the process? What understanding of physics you have? You know the force. You know the force. The dishwasher doesn't have the force, right? Anakin, you know that, right?

It can't get up in there the way you, it's not like you. You didn't build this. This isn't your special. Maybe you should do it. Maybe you should. Maybe the other version of this, though, is. Wait, you think the water comes out. Yeah, there are two things here, which is, I,

and they're going to be two of my favorite lines from the section of the reading. First of all, it doesn't matter how he loads the dishwasher because they have C3PO, which is a servant to them. And Anakin says two fucking maze of Windew, I think, or maybe Obi-Wad. Like, it just occurs to me that C-3PO is the only one who calls me master, which is an insane, an insane thought, a perfect sentence in this book. I was like, this is crazy. This is great writing. The second thing is just in terms of their youth, like the, like, the defining thing of my 18 to 25 is going from 18 and being like, God, I can't believe how little I knew my entire life and how much I know now. And then going to 23 and being like, God, I can't believe how little I knew my whole life and how smart how much I know now. And like there's this line from Padme that's like, she knows Anakin better than he.

He knows himself. And I think that feeling of being like, I am just barely aged out of his immaturity, that I can handle these things for him too. That just comes from her also being immature, but not realizing that, like, she has to keep going. Yeah. That is from the paragraph that we skipped over to get from what I read before to what Natalie read before.

I could have just kept going, you know, because that's the paragraph where we're going. where it's like she isn't blind to his faults. She knows that he's not perfect, that he's moody and quick to anger. And he doesn't know that about himself in the same way, basically. But she does. And like, she can handle it.

Well, because what's better, really, than functioning as, like, the final stage in someone's emotional, the justice system. Like, that is, like, I know him better than he knows himself. And that's why I can just, like, get all those ugly, horrible things right out of the system.

He just can't even identify that he's feeling them. You know, there's something really actually, there's an, it rhymes here internally to this story that's actually really great, which is everyone is acting under Emergency Powers Act. After, you know, under an Emergency Powers Act, everyone is in a moment of crisis. Everyone is acting in a state of exception. We can deal with Anakin's anger once the war is over.

We can deal with the council's slowness to, give me the to like properly reward me for my my service and my dedication my sacrifice after the war is over we can wait to like deal with the problems with within the order within the Senate once the war is over

everybody is trying to kick stuff down the way except for Mace Windu who's figured it all out and is like we have to do something right now or else it just so happens that Matthew Stover wrote a book about Mace Windu I am not saying he's playing favorites I am saying he's playing favorites And I think that is actually really Like technically clever and sweet in this book

Is it like Everyone's waiting for Revent of the Sith to be over So they can fix the plumbing in their house Meanwhile the house is flooding You have to go fix the plumbing in your house Right now it's important You can come back to the to the What's happening outside

Once you're not going underwater You know It's good That stuff is great But speaking of The plumbing is so the You're in the problem, though, of anything you do with the plumbing system, we'll make the problem immediately get worse on some axis,

as we see when the Jedi Council begins to debate what they should do about the Senate granting Palpatine even more powers, including direct oversight of the Jedi Order, how they should respond, and then how they can unmask the Sith Lord who's so close to Palpatine. and every single direction they can move in, there's this concept in chess, like Zugswang, where you're actually in the best position you're going to have for the rest of the game because every, like you have to move, and every move is worse than your current position.

And that's also the title of a pretty good detective story set in the final days of Zaris Russia, where like it gets like the title, the final thoughts of the narrator is that Russia at this moment is in Zug's Wong. You can't crack down on reformers because there's no a critical mass of people who would support the government

doing that. You can't reform it because immediately hardliners and reactionaries will collapse the government. Like there's nothing you can do. All you can do is run the clock and try to delay the inevitable and that is kind of where the Jedi well they don't fully know they find themselves in this. But they do know that every direction they can move carries certain risks and forces them to do something that feels like a mistake. Every single maneuver they can make feels like a mistake.

And that's really yoga's contribution to all of this. Bro. Is people like, what if we did this? And he's like, but that could go bad or bad that could go. And like, so they kind of adopt a, what? if we just sort of move out and maybe Cidius will just show up and we can get them. Huh? And, and we can make Anakin our inside man.

And Obi-Wan's like, have you guys met Anakin? And they're like, that's why it's so perfect. Because he's so emotional and bonded to Palpatine, he'll never suspect him. and Obi-Wan's like Oh, this kid imprints like a duckling And they're like, it'll be fine That's why he's great for this It was not he was the worst possible person

Worst possible choice truly And Obi-1 tries to warn them Like Obi-1 makes a very, very strong case Against doing this And it's like Both Mace Windew and Yoda are so like they've got blind

everyone's got blinders on. Everyone's got blinders yeah yeah. Though again I just want to emphasize Mace Windu is constantly saying the plot of the rest of the book out loud. I know. Because he sees the shatter points, Austin. I guess he sees the shatter points. Why are you like

that's his power is he identifies in structures and in pivotal moments he sees the shutter points. Yeah. And starts talking not something again, we haven't read this stuff, but there are times where he's like, if only we'd been allowed to go down that one hallway in the factory district, we would

have solved this all yesterday. And it's like, were there a different book where he was just on the tail of, did he almost get Sidious? And we just missed it by that much, because that's when it sounds like happened. And then the result, you know, what follows from that is that he starts saying stuff that's like Palpatine is going to disband the Jedi order. He's going to do this. And Yoda is like, um, his intention, you know, the authority has banned the Jedi.

The Senate would never grant. And Mason knew was like, they're about to vote for that. In three minutes, they're going to vote for that. We have to live in the world that exists. And Yoda will not live in the world that exists. Faithless electors could perhaps steer out like this is literally what it's like. That's literally it. with casting, just

Which is the same thing as Padmae when I think that that's the other half of this To go back Okay, you don't have to hand it to Anakin However However In the same way That he is impulsive in rash

This is a book that's very interested In showing that Jedi leadership is slow as shit And cannot respond Even when they have all of the pieces of the puzzle in front of them They're both too slow and Natalie, as you were saying, they put the worst possible person in every possible situation

because they basically have to make three big decisions. One is who is going to be our guy who tries to get in with the chancellor? Who's going to investigate the chancellor for us? And they pick Anakin for that. Two is, who do we send away as bait so that we could theoretically get Darth Sidious to make a move?

And that's Yoda. Let's get him out of here. We can't have him around. And three, Who do we send after Grievous to go one V-1 him? The guy that just lost. The guy that just lost to him. And we're just like,

it's just supposed to Camp Duku. And the only guy who could rain Anakin in Obi-Won. And so it's like all three of their- And leave Mace Windu on Corrassan who fucking hates Anagan. Yes. And Anakin is like just doesn't vibe with him either. And that's going to be the only homie on Corrace. That's the only guy there.

there and a guy who we get the name of three times they talk about how the good blade master he is but we all die instantly into the scenes just like gone just that's exactly right yeah um yeah well to be fair nothing in his life prepared him for Palpatine spinning like a top

through the air like the propeller of a plane yeah that was kind of that was kind of an elite move We can't really counter that one. That's like Vapad Plus. So, God, it is. Also, even setting aside Annikin's conflicted loyalties,

assigning him the investigation role in this is just incredible. Like, someone in Palpatine's circle. Yeah. He is not an investigator. He just lifts. He just lies. He lifts. In the D&D party.

Yeah. He's not going to do stealth checks. No. And, and, uh, information deceit checks. Uh-uh.

He's not that guy. He's a YouTuber. He's a sword influencer on YouTube. You know what I mean? He's got big arms. Everyone likes seeing his big arms. He's flirty. But that's it.

Yes. He doesn't, he, he don't have knowledge to drop. He's not learning stuff that isn't a new saber technique. All right. Today I'm going to use this vintage high republic era lightsaber. And I got, thanks to the viewer who sent this slab of cortosis or in,

we're going to have some fun with this. So let's get out there. Let's try it out. And swing the saber a little bit. Whoa, this one has a red blade. That's weird. You know, weird thing, it didn't. When I checked this yesterday, it didn't.

So I don't know. This is maybe some sort of different kind of. lightsaber. I was talking to my wife. I mean, I was talking to a senator, and it turned red in the middle of the conversation. I don't know why. It must be something weird with it. So they're like, also, also just, again, I can't.

They're on to Palpatine because they traced, they traced the Sith Lord to the basement of Trump Tower. Who could be the Sith Lord? Literally, he has a house on K Street. He's a lobbyist. 500 Republica is this address they give, and it's like where all the elite of the Senate live, but especially Palpatine. And they're like, well, it could just be someone who's really tight with Palpatine.

But it can't be Palpatine because he already runs out. everything. So couldn't, couldn't be him. Couldn't be him. That is, that is, I came into a kind of theory about this book when I hit that point and then I felt it confirmed when I saw one of his footnotes, I think later in this reading where he, where Stover is like, one of the joys of going along on Revenge of the Sith is I got to let all of the characters think what if we did it the other way and then explain why they didn't do it the other. other way, why they didn't stop the tragedy that was unfolding. And in a way, it's in other words, he's like saying, I got to write the thought the audience had in every moment, which is,

why don't they all just talk to each other? Why don't they go arrest Palpatine right now? Why aren't they investigating Palpatine to begin with? What if Obi-Wan had brought Anakin with him to Uda-Pow? They all have those thoughts in this book, just like you, the viewer, watching the movie, will have. And in some cases, that... The answer is really good. Like the why doesn't Anakin go with Obi-Won to Utapal? They, by that point in the book, they're both kind of locked in their own heads. Their trust for each other has begun to erode.

They can't both say the thing that they want, which is like, what if we just did this one? What if we broke the Jedi rules and we just did it together right now? We went out together and did the Udipal thing, even though we've been told not to do that. They both want to do it, but we've seen the erosion of their trust with each other, and they don't feel like they can voice that desire with each other. But in some of the cases, they just have to say, well, Papua, couldn't be the Sith Lord because he's already the Chancellor. He's already in charge, which is a stupid thing to say.

The footnote for that line is, is, the line is from Mace, first of all, which is pisses me off. And he says, the only reason Palpatine's not a suspect is because he already rules the galaxy. And Stover's footnote is, I love this line. I had a lot of fun letting the good guys almost figure it out. And so much of these moments feel like Stover just getting to have fun. It's just like being like,

ooh, I'm going to walk them all the way close to the thing. And then I'm not going to let them do it because that's not what's in the script. Because I can't actually. Also shout out to Mace being like, the fuck does that prophecy even mean. Yeah, dude.

And everyone's like, what? And he's like, we don't know what it means. Yeah. There's been Jedi for like tens of thousands of years. There's only ever been two Sith. What the fuck does balance of the force mean? And everyone's like, what? I don't know.

Like, May it's just chill, dude. Like, we'll, we just have to see how things play out. And then I love this moment, too. They're in the chopper heading to the landing pad and take off and go to their different missions. And Obi-Wan's like, so wait, wait, wait, wait. We're all agreed. that we crossed in a revocable corner,

that we turn an irrevocable corner, and that we can't take, we can no longer affect events and we might have made a ghastly error. And everyone's like, yeah, basically. Yeah. Anyway. Yep.

Yeah, highlights, mother's chic. I'll see you around. I got to check it all my wookie friends. I think highlights of things May says. He says, you know, someone, part of their plan is, we're going to force Sidious to make a move because we're going to go get grievous

and we're going to put Yoda out in the field so that it seems like there's another target out there and that'll draw Sidious out. He'll have to make some sort of move if he wishes the war to continue. And May says if the war has been a sit operation from the beginning with Dukukuk on one side and Sidious on the other.

It's always been a plot aimed at us at the Jedi to bleed us drive our youngest and best to make us into something we were never intended to be. Correct. That is correct. That is 100% right. That is right. In, I think this is the same chapter, you know, he may says,

I'm convinced the next step of this is a plot aimed directly at the heart of the Jedi. This is a move towards our destruction. The dark side of the forest surrounds the chancellor. Obi-Wan adds, as it is surrounded and cloaked the separatists since even before, I almost was doing a Yoda voice for him, that's not right, since even before the war began. If the chancellor is being influenced through the dark side, this whole war, may have been from the beginning of plot by the Sith to destroy the Jedi order. Speculation, Yoda thumped the floor with his gimmer stick, making his hover chair bob gently.

On theories such as these, we cannot rely. Proof, we need proof. Proof may be a luxury we cannot afford. A dangerous light had entered Mace Windus eyes. We must be ready to act. Act, Obi-Wan asked mildly. He cannot be allowed to move against the order. He cannot be allowed to prolong the war needlessly.

Too many Jedi have died already. He is dismantling the Republic itself. I have seen life outside the Republic. So have you, Obi-Wan. Slavery, torture, endless war. Mesa's face darkened with the same distant, haunted shadow Obi-Wan had seen him wear the day before. I've seen it in Arshada, and I sought on Harun call. I saw what it did to Deepa and to Sora bulk.

Whatever its flaws, the Republic is our sole hope for justice and for peace. and as our only defense against the dark, Palpatine may be about to do with the separatists cannot, bring down the Republic. If he tries, he must be removed from office. Removed, Obi-Wan said. You mean arrested? Yoda shook his head.

To a dark place, this line of thought will lead us. Great care we must take. The Republic is civilization. It's the only one we have. Mace looked deeply into Yoda's eyes and into Obi-Wans, and Obi-Wan could find. feel the heat in the Kaurun master's gaze, we must be prepared for radical action. It is our duty.

And then the next page is Yoda and Obi-Wan being like, but that would be treason. I am begging you to make a move that isn't giving Anakin Skywalker. It's like they gave an extra knight to the other side of the chessboard. They were like, you go over there. That's the only action they take. They take two of their own pieces off the board and give. also Anakin's already asking a little prick

in the like when they get the intel about where grievous is and they're like well wait clone intelligence is supposed to report to us and immediately like the fucking postman from sound of music Attican is like well actually if you check the latest law

they now report to Palpatine I'm surprised you weren't aware he sucks so much in those meetings He sucks so much in those meetings. Like, why are you turning around and being like, this is the guy to, this is the guy who's going to help us get out of this? Obi-Wan literally says straight up. Anakin is the most loyal to a fault Jedi.

There is. He has not figured out detachment. He has not figured out letting things go. He has jeopardized. missions hundreds of times to save people's lives. He is not that Jedi. Like he, like, he, Oh,

everyone literally says, Obi one literally says to Yoda, if, if you told me right now that I could end this war, if I killed you, if, if I sacrifice you, Yoda right now,

and the, in the war would end tomorrow, you know I would do that shit. and Yoda's like, me too and I. Okay, now we got to do a bit on this because I think they're wrong about this. Like, I get it. The bore is bad. But he literally, the exchange is like if you told me that if I killed you the word

would be over a week sooner, maybe even a day sooner, we would both say to do it. All right, now slow down. A day? A day? For Yoda? Yoda? He's been around like 800 years. He had a good run.

He had a good run. You're talking about a week. to produce more good in the universe in the rest of his long-ass life than he is if we It only works if you're doing 40K math where like every day the war goes on like a trillion die. It's a trillion new deaths, yeah. Like maybe then. But no, it's a referendum on how bad he must be doing. If it's if he's not doing enough good to counter to counteract one day of the war, you know,

but actually this kind of rocks too because like we've all had those moments where it's like you have a bunch of coworkers have the like, okay, we've all been covering for a lot of stuff, right? But we need to be honest about what's happening here. This person is completely unqualified and is a train wreck

at every single, like, thing their role demands of them. That is what Obi-Wan is saying is like, look, okay, the diploma we gave him, that's fraudulent. We all, like, he flies real good, but basically he's not a Jedi.

We completely fucked up. up. What we got is a dog that can fly spaceships. A badly trained dog will take a bite at you, but if he likes you, he'll love you forever. And that's his best trait, but also his worst. He's like, so we need to be real honest with ourselves about what we're dealing with with Anakin, because it isn't a Jedi. Yeah. But Yoda only knows how to talk to Jedi. I do think the scene where he goes to talk to Yoda, and Yoda just gives him like Jedi 101 shit is also really good. It was like, do you get this buildup, but he's like, all right, I'm going to do it.

I'm going to talk to Yoda about my problems. I can't see I got a girl pregnant, but I talk about how I have some issues I need to deal with. And Yoda is like, issues you shouldn't have. And it's like, all right, I got to go, Yoda. This didn't work out for me. This was not the advice I was looking for. Yodi does not know how to talk to teenagers.

I love you to. Yudda tries to talk to teen leaders by being like, is this about someone you know? Like this would be like having a problem. That's right. And it's like, I'm going to let him think it's Obi-Wan. Yeah, yeah. That'll work.

Rob, I do have to ask you if you felt extremely correct in your big Cotor 2 Jedi Council read because it pops up here. Did you notice this? No. Where this is the very beginning of chapter 11. Conflicting currents of energy swirled and clashed in the council chambers. Traditionally, decisions of the council were reached by quiet, mutual contemplation of the flow of the force until all the council was of a single mind on the matter. They just go into those chambers and they sit.

And whatever their individual reeds were, they all get melted down until they're all like in lockstep of the institution. What if all the priests were the oracle of the district? Self-eye. It's kind of it. All right, let's go huff these fumes. But you remember your big cotech thing? It was like, all these guys are different. And then they all start talking.

They get together and they all like, seemingly have the same perspective all the sudden. And then they can't explain their decision when they're no longer under the influence. That's, yeah, that is, that is interesting. And you would, I think if you'd separate it out,

Yoda and Mace and Obi-Wan and all the rest of these motherfuckers and said, what do you think about the situation? They'd all be very cautious about any of the decisions they do end up making. and this is why I will defend off-sides because sometimes they're just like yeah are they a little indulgent is it a way to be like we're leaders of this company and we get to go have fun adventures

and a cool look yeah sure but sometimes you'll really get to some good thinking over that game of paintball that's true and that's why it is so important that you have that game of paintball because everyone depends on you and you and the gang

coming to better decisions. Yeah. So that is, you know, shoutouts to shoutouts to that. They need to get away from those, from those Jedi council chambers. It is like the degree to which Mace is just like reading out what's going to happen, Yoda, deer in the headlights, can't do anything. Obi-Wan, y'all be fucked up.

Anakin's basically out of control. Anakin, I'm basically out of control. And that's why I should be a Jedi master. He literally is like, no Jedi in this room can match my power. In fact, no Jedi in the galaxy can. You think you could keep me from being a master? I need to understand. All right?

Go with God, my son. You are not a Jedi anymore. My high school football coach outperformed Yoda as like someone who could like counsel young. Like a buddy of mine had like a high school pregnancy scare and it was like really in his head about it. Yeah. And the coach, like, notices me a prick in practice and took him aside and was like, what the fuck is going on? And everybody just, like, emotionally vomited the whole story. And my coach just looked at him and was like, it would take some incredibly bad luck for what you described to result in, like, until you know, she's probably not pregnant, kid.

Don't worry about this. Just go on with your life. You're probably fine. Uh, and indeed it was so. And that is the, that is the energy that Yoda needs to bring is the whole like, or you can just chill. Like that is, this is really all Anakin needs is like a ticket to six flags and like, why don't you just not do anything for a long week?

Take a long weekend. The history of the galaxy is different. If they're just like, take a long weekend. The thing is, they're all terrified of him. Like, they're, they, they, they're answer, like, they are all so afraid of him and of what it means that he might be or is this, this figure in the prophecy. What does that mean for the future of the Jedi of the force of everything? that they keep him at arm's length constantly when all he wants is to belong.

All he wants is access and acceptance. For every flaw he has, it's met with like the one thing that's going to make it worse. And I think Obi-Wan is the only one one who really understand how to straddle the line of Jedi values and teachings while also allowing Anakin to be imperfect, to not have mastered these Jedi values yet and to still see where he is growing and learning

and trying to impart and remind him. There are many examples so far in this book where when Anakin starts to freak out, out a gentle word from Obi-Wan is exactly what he needs to hear to kind of re-center himself to re-ground himself. There are also examples where it doesn't work and it pisses them off more. But like, Obi-Wan is the only person that understands how to reach out to Anakin. And it's when he when Anakin is in the chamber, freaking freaking out because he's like,

I'm the most powerful Jedi ever and you aren't making me a master. How is no one like shutting that shit down and just saying like Anakin, you are so off base. You don't become a Jedi master from sheer power. Like that is not how we evaluate. Like it just feels like no one talks to him.

No one is like checking his like the like the the like the spiral thinking that he gets himself into when he does uh express it outwardly to uh you know members of the Jedi and it's that is what's so frustrating is it just like it seeing these outburst increases their fear and and uh worry that like he is uncontrollable and he can't like he just he is this voles. volatile person and then he becomes further isolated because he feels like they are afraid of him and that they don't trust him. Hang on though.

What you're describing with Obi-Wan is the Padmaid dynamic too. That like this person exists to soothe him and also can't see how fully bad this is. Like Obi-Wan is also just like, I just need to get a word in his ear. I need to sort of guide him away from these feelings. But, like, it never sticks. Like, he's always, you're always just sort of waiting for the next eruption with him. And so I think there's, there's, like, everyone around him in the story, though, is kind of trapped by his volatility and his overbearing power. And I think this is the, maybe this is a byproduct of, like, Yoda being around in Star Wars so long.

And he's in every story and basically is like the most plot armored character in Star Wars in history. because it makes it hard to take seriously that they're all terrified of Anakin but it's kind of the only thing that makes sense for them not checking him in exactly the way you describe like after like there's so many moments that have led up to this they just can't they cannot say to him like dude this is why we don't like

this right here why you were acting this way is why you are not trusted it is why you were not treated as a full colleague. His volatility and his power make it impossible for people to be honest with him. It's interesting because I actually don't read that their response to him in that scene as being afraid of him. He freaks out at them and says, like, no one can match my power. And Yoda is like, you're the chancellor's representative.

You're going to attend the council. You're going to sit here. You're not going to have a vote. You're going to represent him and his idea. as in directives, you will not represent your own. And then Stover writes, up from the depths of his furnace heart came and answered so far transcending fury that it sounded cold as interstellar space. This is an insult to me and to the chancellor. Do not imagine that it will be tolerated.

Mesa Windu's eyes were as cold as the voice from Anakin's mouth. Take your seat, young Skywalker. Anakin matched his stare. Perhaps I'll take yours, his own voice inside his. head had a hot black fire that smoked from the depths of his furtous heart. The dragon. The dragon. You think you can stop me from saving my love?

You think you can make me watch her. This is inside of his head. You can think you can make me watch her die. Go ahead and vapod this you. Anakin, Obi-Wan said softly. He gestured to an empty seat beside him. Please. And something in Obi-Wan's gentle voice in his simple, straightforward request, sent his anger slinking

off ashamed. and then he can found himself alone on the carpet in the middle of the Jedi Council blinking. He suddenly felt very young and very foolish. And I think they do not take him seriously. I think when Mace Windu says, take your seat, young Skywalker. He is like, you are a little child to me. I am not afraid of you. I do not, you know, not to like ground this to today.

I was outside walking in the snow. and a dude was a dude was at first trying to help a woman dig her car out of the snow and then it became very clear that he was inebriated and was uh and she she had scratched her car with his broken shovel um and was raising his voice and then using some words and i will not say right now into a microphone uh and it looked like it was going to like blow up uh and someone else said something and I was a little bigger than that person so I like stepped in front of that person so that this dude was big. This dude was like taller than me and I'm not like a super tall dude but I'm like six feet and I'm like pretty big and wide and he was a big dude. And then he

started like being like, oh, you must not know who I am. And I was like, oh, you don't have any power in this situation. Like the second he tried to be like, you don't know who my uncle is, you don't you're not from around here. I was like, oh, you don't have any, you're nothing. Like I was a afraid of you when you were using, when you were saying slurs at this woman. But now I understand you're tiny. And that's what happens in this scene to me is it's like the more he flies off the hand to the less in control he seems. Yeah. And the Jedi think control is power, not anger. Anger is weakness. They've trained how to how to master people who come at them with anger. And so I actually think that they think he's like a pathetic little baby who's good at fighting.

and that does not get him the respect that he actually needs from anybody except for Obi-Wan who knows whatever his relationship to compassion is, it's good for Anakin to have compassion. They think it's weakness for Anakin to have compassion. I think that they're afraid of what he might do to the world, but I don't think that they're afraid of what he might do to them. Maybe they should be afraid of what he might do to them. But he is your little cousin who has him. mean streak. And when he was 12, it was an annoyance at family reunions. And he is 19 now,

and he has a driver's license, and he has a gun, and you don't like his friends, and you see that he's starting to get up to some shit. And you're not necessarily afraid of him, but you know that the world should be afraid of him, which is why they end up making, which is why all of this isn't to say it, then therefore they made the right decision. I think the big, bad decision that they make, the moment where it's over for the July counsel is Obi-Wan has counseled them as best as he can in all the ways you're saying, Natalie. And then Yoda says, so what's the best way we can use him? And it's like, oh, you've just lost.

You, that's it. This is the great illustration of the failure of the Jedi kind of ideology that if in place of attachment, what you have is such detachment from others, you can't have the compassion that would prevent you from saying, how do I use this person? you've lost it, you know? Like, you're going to, at the very least, you've lost any moral authority you're going to have in that circumstance.

And that opens them up perfectly for what Palpatine's machinations are because he can say genuinely, you're being used and he's right. Yeah. Which is what the other third of these chapters are, is Palpatine being like, have you read the book you're in?

They're doing some fuck shit to you. Matthew Stover auditioning for joining the writing team of White Collar. I do want to just while we're still on this and to frame for non-readers, because this is another one of my like, frame it sort of like Anakin Thunder moment. And I think like can color sort of how the Jedi Council can perceive him and how the energy he is coming in with into this meeting. In a quiet moment alone, Anakin is brooding outside of the door because he feels like it is such a big disrespect that they are not letting him in long. enough and in the time that he has to look at the window the thing that he is obsessed with is the fact that he is the sole hero of Corrassant they would not be here without him the damage that

was done is is only limited by the you know the scale of his power and his ability to like save the chancellor and all of these other things so like to even like like how do you address somebody like that who like can't even walk in the room at like a neutral position. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. This is like whatever damage was done to him was done so long ago. They needed to start repairing it a long time ago.

You know, they needed to build a relationship with him where they knew how to, how to get him. They all need to do what, know how to do what Obi-Wan does. And more importantly, they need to start like making it so that you don't need to do what Obi-Wan or Pad may do to get him back on side, you know, he doesn't, he should not be a tiger that needs to be soothed. Exactly, right? Like, if, if they're going to let someone be with them who is fundamentally a wild animal who can only be soothed by the hand of the most beautiful prince or maiden, like, it's just not,

that's not, you can't plan around that. That solution doesn't, doesn't work. Yeah. And maybe this is why she've succeeded. and everybody else fails is he doesn't. He learns that you can train a dog without giving physical treats. You don't need to actually pet the dog's head to make it love you. You can trick it through long-term psychological conditioning.

So the wasteover frames all this is Anakin's a mark, and Palpatine is a conman. And he's just like baiting the traps for for Anakin to walk into and leading him to the conclusions that that he wants. But it also means this Anakin, and this is saying something, might be a bigger dumbass than original, like the prequel trilogy, like screen Anakin. this dude is the biggest patsy you have ever seen uh just one like he gets turned is like he he gets exposed so fast uh as to what he's up to there's a great moment here too where palpatine's like have i ever made you do anything that your conscience was uncomfortable with and afkin starts to say well because literally early or yesterday.

Palpatine was like cut that dude's head off. Finish him. And it's like, yes. Oh shit. Oh no. Oh, fuck. What did I do? And now all Palpatine has to be like, and that's exactly, and that's exactly why we can

trust each other. Because I have never made you uncomfortable. And Anakin's like, damn, you're so right. And it just goes on like that. We're like, at every turn, uh, it is. And it makes it worse because we've seen so. So many pages now of Anakin be like, I love Obi-1. He's my best friend.

That guy is my brother. I would do anything for him. I would die for him. I wish I could die for him. Oh my God, but I also wish I could die for my wife? Could you die for someone more than once? Because I would totally die for Padmae more than once.

Like, she is my everything. And we're going to have a family and it's going to be the best thing in the world. You know, Anakin, there was a famous Sith who died twice for people he loved. Maybe you'd heard of that, but they won't let you. They won't let you hear those stories. And Palpatine turns him against everyone he loves in the space of like two meetings. Yeah. Where it's not just, because I think on the screen, what gets him is his dread of Padme

dying. And just the dim possibility that Palpatine has accessed as some information. Uh, they'll prevent this from happening. I do like that when he tells her about this dream, she's like, I'm just going to go to the hospital, dude. It's going to be fine. They've got really, like, I've got a really good health care plan. Did you notice that we get the Uba-Dubo droids name in this? It's her MD.

It's MD, like MD, like a doctor. Except it's EMD-E, medical droid. Yeah, I guess you might be wrong. So here's the thing. Oh, okay, tell me. MD droids are frequently described in, but that is not. an uba-duba droid is not an MD droid. I see.

I see. Oh, you're right. The MDs are the ones that did the face-off surgery in the car war's episode. That's right. They're kind of fucked up looking. Ub-Dubidroid totally different. You're right. My bad.

I'm sorry. But I don't think Uba-Duba droid is, that's a movie thing. I don't, maybe. We didn't see them yet. Maybe it'll show up. We don't know. He didn't know. Yeah.

Yeah. But, but like, so the thing is, like, I do love that Padmae. It's just like, I'm not too worried, man. I've got insurance. I've got the Senate, senatorial health care. It's going to be fine. Women don't die in childbirth on the bottom floor, of Coruscant. It's going to be fine.

He's like, no, it won't. It won't. Also, also, immortal line. I don't know what metaphor is. My visions are literal. He does say that. It is true. He does say that.

Folks, we found him. A man without subconscious or subtext. It's just all there, folks. Yeah. But Palpatine gets him basically to completely turn on his friends over the course of these two meetings, turn against his wife. Like literally it's, hey, what was Obi-Wan doing over there at like seven in the morning? I leave you to, like, draw your own conclusions, Aniken. And he's like, yep, I know what she was doing.

And, like, it's embarrassing. What's wild is that scene with Aniken, sorry, with Obi-1 and Padmae, she has the other potential read, which is like, oh, my God, he knows. And Anakin, it doesn't cross Anacin's mind that that could be what that meeting was about for a second. He's not like, oh, my God, Obi-Wan knows that I'm with Padmae, and Padmae's pregnant. He jumps immediately to infidelity in a way. way that's like, dude, you and Padme were like two nights ago talking about how bad it would be if the Jedi showed up and saw you together and like knew about the relationship. How did you forget

that that was your main anxiety two days ago? And the answer is because like Palpatine is there being like, who, who, who. This is such a good depiction though of like the in cell. Like, because this dude has these insecurities. They're really specific about like cuckoldry and all this stuff. But crucially, like he has like his big trauma is he was raised as a slug. He was raised as and his mom was abducted and killed like on this like settlement raid on this planet but like he has no

real relationship experience or like exposure to like this hasn't happened to him like this hasn't like he's had no relationships where like emotional intimacy was in some way betrayed that has just literally never happened to him in his life but he has this dread of it

well it's happened to him in the sense that the Jedi are sort of a systemic, a bit emotional. He's not allowed to love people. And I bet he has had, he can't love his best friend slash boyfriend the way he wishes he could, you know? He was taken from his family in a way that was. And so I don't, I think that he's just suspicious of not, the thing that it makes it seem like early on is he feels like he's afraid he's not worth love. Because he's afraid that when he comes back, Padme will have moved on from him, that something is changed in the relationship.

And that, and that's totally fine, valid. Right. Yes. Like abandonment, like fear that he will be insufficient. Great. But his fear is like,

I'll bet she's cheating on me. And so it's like, once again, this is another case of get off those websites, son. Like this is, they needed to like,

this, hey, hey, uh, A Anakin, this happens less than these videos here. You know what?

Maybe just don't, use the search term, buddy. Maybe you just don't, just, you don't need to, you don't need to, you're cooking your own brain. Yeah, like this isn't, this isn't how it happens. And this, I don't think, I don't think Padmay or Obi-1 would, would do this. And they certainly wouldn't put you in that chair. Like, that, that, that wouldn't happen to you, buddy. To take it, to take it, like, as seriously as the book seems to take it, though, isn't he right in knowing that he can't be trusted the way Obi-Wan can be trusted, which the book does underline.

They're like, deep in his heart, his fear, which is, oh, you know, there's been, it's not even focused on the betrayal, but Padmei, what if, what if Padmay could open up to Obi-Wan in a way she couldn't open up to me? Isn't true, because she doesn't actually fully open up in that scene with Obi-Wan, but she does have that thought in the meeting with the rest of the senator. where she's like the one Jedi I can actually trust is Obi-Wan Kenobi. And it's not, if you, if the scene had been written less about infidelity of the flesh and more infidelity of, or more his anxiety about being able to be the person everyone wants him to be.

I think you probably get to a version of this that isn't just in Cell Anakin and is, you can't put up, you cannot put all of this onto anyone. person without it completely ruining who they are, you know, which is, of course, like, this is like the double bind of Anakin. He sucks shit. And also, I don't know anybody who could survive the catalyst he gets put through in his life without coming out sucking in some direction, you know? That's true.

That's why I'm glad they're on Jedi in real life. For real. For real. Would not be good. Would not be good. I think that really highlights. what is missing from Anakin's story here for me that like he he wants to save everyone

he wants to be the most loyal friend to everyone he wants to yes be like everyone's like right hand guy like just to be everything for everyone that's been a huge motivator for him throughout his entire life. And the, I can so much easier, more easily get behind his anxiety of somebody else taking that place for, for Padme, not in a romantic sense necessarily, but in a, in a, in a, in a, in a

platonic sense. Like, the idea that that she would go to Obi-One for something before. him or that Palpatine would go to someone else for something like anyone that he has that outburst right about Massamada yes about the

about his speaker um yeah the house or whatever the big blue alien guy yes yes he has the same anxiety about him and like the fact that he wasn't the one that was called upon to go on the mission to

not the Narshadah one but the not the not not the not the udaba one but the other one that was like the weekend mission or whatever um like he hates not being the guy for everyone and it is also the most impossible position for any one person to be in and it is also the exact position that forces are putting him into and that are creating tensions against like the what i wish was more of a triangle like Ali described it before between Palpatine, Obi-Wan and the Jedi, and Padme, that, like, all, like, he should be feeling like push and pulled in all these directions because he wants to be everything for each one of them, and he cannot. Because they're at odds with each other. But the thing is, I mean, that's the thing that's kind of interesting is we get,

he's so burnt out. He says explicitly, everyone's always asking me for shit. I'm sick of being asked for stuff. But he truly does also feel jealous whenever somebody else is appointed to something or told to go do something without him involved. And I actually do think that that double bind of like, you have to involve me in everything. Ugh. Why am I? Why have to be involved in everything?

He's a real. I've seen that in people. That's real. I've seen that in myself in my worst moments. I think that's actually pretty evocative of like someone in the middle of a spiral whose life is falling apart and who is like, I can't let us. plate stops spinning. And like, sometimes you actually have to let us plate stop spinning and decide you to prioritize a plates.

You know, you make, okay, these are- safety, then you can't not be the person in charge the plate. And so you become like, every plate becomes a threat, but also you're like, let me handle it because I can't trust anyone else. That is pretty well rendered. Yeah. But I also think there is a bit of, and this is also, I think, well rendered, which is that Anakin's goodness is like about feeling good more than being good.

Yeah. That like he wants to be the person who is trusted, the person, like, it's very much I want to be the catcher in the rye. And that is not really a thought about like I want to be out there and doing good work and like saving the children. I want to have the validation and the reassurance that I am the person out there protecting people and taking people and taking. taking care of them. Without actually doing the work necessarily. I want, but I just want to feel like I'm doing it. He doesn't mind doing the work, but he needs the validation.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other half of this, of course, is that because we get more, you know, again, it's only two or three scenes of him and Anakin and Sidious talking, Anakin and Palpatine talking. So there's not that many more than like the opera scene in the movie. but because there is more,

it does mean that Anakin comes across even more like a lost and confused dog because Palpatine is all the way to saying stuff like, well, this dark city has showed up right now. I would say, take a seat. Take a seat.

Let's talk about it and we could maybe end this war together. And Anakin's like, you would do what? He's like, I'd bloody will offer him a brandy and talk it out. And Anakin is like, Chancellor, you couldn't be serious. And he doesn't this exact. exact bit like in two different scenes. And he's like, Ah, you have to, the Jedi did tell you, you got to be careful around this dude.

The, the, you know, even let's put into a bracket. Let's say he's never going to say Palpatine, Euryis. Obi-Wan, one of the three people in the world that you actually trust, said, listen, Anakin, I know that it sucks that we're trying to, we're making you spy on a friend. I know. But. and Obi-Wan's like scared about even using this angle, but he does use it. He says, we think there's a chance that someone near Palpatine could be manipulating him.

Sidious could be one of these people around him. Nevertheless, when Palpatine is like, well, if Citi has showed, if this city has showed up, I'd ask him how to save your wife. Anakin is like, oh, shit. the Jedi were manipulating me. They didn't want me to know that this guy knows a cool guy who could save my wife, which is the other actual funniest bit in this in this book so far for me is the bit where he's doing the Plagius the Wise story. And Anakin is like, well, whatever happened?

Whatever happened to Plagius? And Sidious goes like, yeah, well, he's done. dead. He was killed by his, by his apprentice who was younger and hotter and he's the best Sith of all time. And, you know, he's probably out there right now being

cool as shit. And he gets like, damn, if only could meet that guy. He couldn't help making himself up in that moment and being like, yeah, whoever, whoever killed Darth Plagius the Wise, that's the real guy right there. Yeah. The, also

his... increasing like so I just heard about all this stuff Anakin but I've been doing a little research since we first talked about it and in my research I found out all this stuff and then by the end he's basically like

yeah so in my research basically I have a bunch of Sith texts I wouldn't give them to you but like I don't know if you're cool with me I'll I'll hook you up I just found them lying around the Republic Archives you know why do you need to be a master Sure.

Little little... Yeah, just go to your boy, Palpatine's private study, man. I know. This is the thing for me. I'm like, he's literally telling you that he's got all the PDFs

back at his place of all this shit. And he's in, and it doesn't occur to Anakin to be like, oh, can I come over and read some of those? No, he's like, well, I must go the way of the Jedi

and become a master's to I can read what's in the archive. and certainly there will be the, like, he's just so, he's so, like, ham-fisted into having to take this path that, like, any other sensible thing to desire or ask for just can't occur to him. He has to be so stupid and not, like, inquire anything. Like, the idea that it's, Palpatine, the way that he just says it all out loud and is like yeah dartsidious what's up and like

i would talk to him and and i've been reading these like evil-ass books and oh not evil just a different perspective just curious from a different perspective um and anic is just like wow like you got some points made like i i don't know just totally unquestioning is masterful manipulation by Palpatine. To just be able to like just... Because, because, here's really this case out. It is not masterful manipulation when I hold out a dog tree at my left hand to put it behind my back, switch it to my right hand,

then put both hands out and say, where's the treat and the dog gets it wrong? Because there's a bit in this conversation where Anakin is like, well, the difference between the Jedi and the Sith is the Jedi are good. That's all I care about. You have to imagine Palpatine in his head is just loo. losing it. Like, you are nothing,

like you're, oh, it's delicious. You haven't thought about anything ever. You have no perspective on anything. This is so easy for me. I don't even know how he gets joy out of this manipulation. That's right. He probably doesn't. This is like, God, it'd be all his pain.

Because this exact exchange is actually, this is the fun of, this is the bit that's just so funny to me. Because, like, I actually think Palpatine has one incredible maneuver in here, which is, he says, it's said, that if one could ever entirely comprehend a single grain of sand, really, truly understand everything about it, one would at the same time entirely comprehend the universe,

who's to say that a Sith by looking inward, sees less than a Jedi does by looking out. And I'm like, ooh, oh, like, I don't, I don't fuck with Sidious like that. But, ooh, like, yeah, you could learn it all from mastering a grain of sale. Why shouldn't mastery of myself be any different? And that's when Anakin directly in response to that, he says, the Jedi, Jedi are good. That's the difference. I don't care who sees what.

And it's like, oh, like, you're not, this is, this is NFL playing against a pee we, a pee we player. It's like, you expect like, Mr. Beast pops up and he's like, I've locked Socrates and Thrasimachus inside this warehouse for five years. Let's see which one is still alive. It's Socrates and Mr. Beast. It's not even It's not good in there It's bad

No, you're so right He just doesn't have That's all He has no object permanence That he can just No, zero object permanence I mean No one in the Jedi do though

Because everyone knows that the object Was that 500 Republic Road And no one can connect the fucking Dots that the object is the fucking guy At the penthouse I guess I should say, I would be clear. I've been saying a lot of like Mace Windu sees the whole book, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I stand by all that. It doesn't mean he knows what to do with any of it. In fact, that might be a more damning critique of Mace Windu. You know? No. Well, that's the thing about Mace Windu in this book. And Stover calls it out when he's first introduced. He's like, I'm not going to do a freeze frame for Mace Windu because he's not a part of like

the myth of the tragedy that, that's, I'm weaving here, even though he is destroyed by it. He's just going to be like my perspective character. And I'm just going to, and that's going to work out for me. And then, I mean, it's very funny. It is very funny. Yeah, Mace is there to be us and say it all out loud. But it doesn't. So much about Anakin.

Sometimes I revisit in my head. The years before the prequel trilogy was released. when we didn't really know what the whole fall of Anakin Skywalker looked like and we could imagine him being an older, more mature character who falls to darkness. Sort of the way Obi-Wan almost implies

that they were like comrades in this war, they both rose to general-like and then at some point because it's so much more so much of Star Wars hinges on tricking a dipshit teenager. Yeah. Who knocked up his girlfriend is in a panic spiral about it

and is worried he won't get into a good college. Like that is basically like, oh man, like what could possibly have happened to create Darth Vader? And it's like, so here's a kid. It's rough. Because you could have told a version of the story where it was like, well, the Clone Wars lasted for 30 years. And bit by bit, he again and again realized that he could draw on this part of himself that made him do worse and worse, more and more

inhumane things. And maybe he lost a lot of people in the war. Maybe he, you know, whatever. Like, there's a much longer version of that story that is, you know, something, the Clone Wars cartoon. But imagine the Clone Wars cartoon lasted 10 years instead of, in terms of the narrative arc, instead of just the few years of the Clone Wars do last? What if he goes from being whatever in 19 or 20 to being 29 or 39? Like, imagine if he doesn't become Darth Vader until he's 40. You get like, oh, that's like a whole arc of a whole ass person in there. You know, maybe, what if he had other kits? What if Luke and Leia weren't the first kits? You know, like, that's a different dude. And that's, I think, kind of what you could have filled in the gaps with pre-pre-pre-quels.

You didn't know how young he was, you know? You know who you did know, though? Is Garm Bell Iblis, who does show up twice, who's mentioned. Twice, which I was like, shout-outs to Garm. Hell yeah, brother. I'm glad you were on Corrassan, not here deal with any of this. The only thing I think we haven't talked about is, at length, actually, is the Obi-Wan pad-based scene, which I don't know that we have to go deep on, but we do have to say that it does include her saying,

you love him too, don't you? You do. You love him. He lowered his head. He looked very alone. Please do what you can to help him, he said and left. And that is fire. That is it.

That's the deep melancholy sadness of the brokenhearted Jedi boy that I needed from this book. So. Anakin is both like Hector and Patrick. And. Patrick less Mm-hmm Say more I think it's that like his

Like we have so many scenes of him His only thing he wants to do Is return to the towers With his with his wife And to create a family Um And also He so passionately adores his

Like you would think with the raw power He's he's an Achilles figure But he's not But he's not But Obi-Wan is like the perfect Jedi. Like, Obi-Wan is both Achilles and Odysseus in a lot of ways. Like the, this is Obi-Wan and the light, flawless in combat and also unmatched in cleverness and wit.

And Anakin is just passionately devoted to him. And one of the things that proves his undoing is that devotion puts him in places he really has no business being. He isn't like Obi-Wan. He is in the path of threats that he cannot, he cannot actually face down. I need the fanfic. I need the Achilles Patrickliss, but Obi-Wan and, and, it has to exist. But I bet Rob people do it the other way. I bet people make Anakin the Achilles because of the power and the efficacy at war.

And they don't have this angle that you have, which is that, which is like, oh, no, actually, the family man is Anakin. the person who's fully devoted to the duty is Obi-Wan that's interesting and they're both the snack and they both the snack the other analogy for

the Anakin does lend himself perfectly to more than anything is Lou Booh which is like how does anyone not see how bad news this guy is and then also he's like literally Literally, so kid, you like tits?

And he's like, I don't do anything. Like what do you want me to do? I'll kill any motherfucker. Three Kingdoms era, General Lou Booh, famously one of the great warriors of that era, who was not to be trusted and often people tried to you. It would be like if at the end of Reventor the Sith, Anakin then also killed Sidious. I mean, I guess that is what happens in the long run, right? So, yeah, I think it maps.

It's just a longer timeline. But the other thing I actually about to see, it's actually important, though, is Obi-Wan knows. Obi-Wan knows. Obi-Wan knows. He's known the whole time. There's some great dialogue in here about him being like, listen, like, I know Anakin. He says, Senator Padme, please.

This is after she's like, why would Anakin talk to me about stuff? He gazed into her eyes with nothing on his face but compassion and fatigued anxiety. I am not blind, Padme, though I have tried to be for Anakin's sake and for yours. What do you mean? Neither of you is very good at hiding feelings either. Obi-Wan, Aniken has loved you since the day you met in that horrible junk shop on tattooing. He's never even tried to hide it, though we do not speak of it. We pretend that I don't know.

And I was happy to because it made him happy. You made him happy when nothing else truly could. He sighed, his brows drawing together. And you, Padmay, skilled as you are on the Senate floor, cannot hide the light that comes to your eyes when anyone so much as mentions his name. I, she lurched to her feet. I can't. Obi-Wan, don't make me talk about this. And it continues.

And it's so brutal. like the fact that this is a great and we said this about the movie to begin with but there is a real success at the the classical tragedy

of it all that's like please just have the conversation please just say please just talk it out please just be in the same room at the same time please be willing to

to you know meet someone halfway on something but you can't because you're driven by this tragic flaw all that stuff is happening here and her inability to talk open to either Anakin about Sidious or sorry about Palpatine or to Obi-Wan about Anakin is so, it's really effective at making you go like, oh my God, oh my God, please.

What if I turn the page and this time she makes a different decision or Obi-Wan makes a different decision? What if Obi-Wan goes to Anakin and says, you know I know about you and Padmae, is this about Padmae? What's up? And he can't do it. but it only makes it, it only makes the tragedy even deeper that now we have confirmation in this version of the story

that Obi-Wan fully knows what's going on, fully senses that Padmey is caught up in it somewhere, somehow, et cetera. And he also delivers a kind of bomb, which is he comes back to the, uh, the, the,

the chosen one prophecy. And he says the thing that I think no one has ever said out loud to us as clearly as this, which is, he says like, first he's like listen I get it you two are really tight it would be bad if he left the order

he needs the order is what he kind of tells her whatever that means for you two he needs it and she's like but how could he ever leave the order he's the chosen one and he says I've scanned the prophecy it says only that a chosen one

will be born and bring balance to the force nowhere does it says he has to be a Jedi and she's like it doesn't he doesn't have to be a Jedi and he goes on to be like, yeah, Quigan thought he had to be a Jedi. Yes, the Jedi are the ones who follow the will of the force, but like, prophecies being what they are, he could, he doesn't have to be a Jedi. And the like, the sharpness of that, the kind of double-sided sword of that, the double-sided blade of that is like, that means that theoretically he could leave the Jedi order and still bring balance to the force. But it also means that, you know, he could, he could.

do something that is like, uh, what we know is like bringing balance to the force that doesn't look like a Jedi success. It looks like a Jedi failure, you know, and in a way what Anakin, or what Obi-Wan is saying here is like,

we kind of need him to be in the order. Otherwise, what if he fulfills this prophecy a different way that we don't like? Uh, that isn't good for anybody. The, he, like,

I think it's such a damning verdict on Anakin, where Obi-Wan, the thing he doesn't hold out here is we can take it to the council yeah like we'll handle this correctly like he's probably gonna have to leave the order you guys can but like we'll take care of you guys like you will you and your family want for nothing um like you're

you're always one of us in by those lights he just can't serve as a Jedi that's not what he holds out no in fact what he says is Anakin without the order is not something other of us wants to contemplate yeah that is brutal because we see him we've we've seen freeze frame this is anakin in the order lashing out on his like rage outs and being kept waiting outside a conference room like for obi want to be like well here's the thing we can't do or at least neither of us should want to do it's have him go off and be a family man who's not a Jedi that's that's probably nothing we want to do that's that's

grim. The thing that isn't offered here is like, well, you guys, he can just quit the order. Because that's her, that's her daydream. That's both their daydream. Like, that, fuck it. Fuck the order. Like, we'll go off and be a family. And Obi-Wan's like, that probably isn't good. And you know it too.

Yeah. And she freezes. And doesn't. Like, because I think a lot of us, like, when we watched that movie, we're like, oh, like, especially in the light of the holy text, Duku lost. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Like leading the order is no big deal. There's no consequences for this. Yeah. They're cool with it, actually. But in this telling, the thing that stops it here is not the imagined consequences where, oh, no, you'll lose your job as a Jedi. It's that Anna kid, that Obi-Wan and Padmay both kind of have this feeling that, like, this kid is only kept on the rails by being a Jedi. And you take that away and there isn't a good husband and a good father waiting to take his place outside the confines of the order. That's bleak.

Yeah. It's such a tough scene because, you know, they're the two people who love Anakin Skywalker and who actually know who he is in a way that the rest of the world can only guess at. And they can't, you want them to like, be like, oh, that. Doesn't it annoy you when he does this stupid thing? But it's not the time. You know what I mean? Like you want to dream of the version of this conversation. That can be like a relief for them both.

They can both finally talk about what it's like to be. All night bitch fest. That's what I mean. And if they catch feelings, cool. But it could also just be a friendship fan. And they could just be like it could be at the end. Like by morning. It's like you could still have a family you love,

but maybe just not. with Anakin. Like, maybe he's not the man you need. Or maybe she brings him around on this and says, listen, you know what? You should leave the order two and come live with us. All three of us should live together on the boo. And between the two of us, we can keep him in check. You know, Anakin's a man with a lot of needs, you know?

Yeah. I'm just saying. New me, 3PO, R2. Let's be real. R2 and 3PO have the strongest odds of being good parents. Yes. Like those kids need

The should have been raised by those droids The droid should have raised the kids Agreed Agreed I guess the only thing we haven't talked about I don't need as much to talk about Is Grievous being like Why didn't you want me

Asidious? Why didn't you want me to kill Palpatine Big Sith plans bro You'll see Wait till you meet my new apprentice It'll be so awesome Yeah that did happen.

Then he does, there was a thing in there that I kind of like, because he's using Grievous as a proto-Vader, right? He's like, there's a lot of the like, oh, the breathing apparatus, the robotic lambs, all of that. And I think that that stuff, we've talked a lot about how that lands for me, and I'll love it. I think I really liked, I thought was cool, was he has this conversation with Newt Gunray. Yeah. And Newt Gunray is like, why are we getting shuffled around?

And Cidius wants us to now move to Mustafa. Isn't that the lava planet? I don't, that sounds bad. That doesn't sound good to me. And Grievous says like, you know, Udipau is a hostile planet under military occupation. It was never intended to be more than a stopgap while the defenses of the base on Mustafar were completed. Now that they are, Mustafar is the most secure planet in the galaxy. The stronghold prepared for you to withstand the entire Republic Navy.

And Gunn Ray says, New Gunn Ray says, it should. construction nearly bankrupted the trade federation. And Grievous says, don't whine to me about money. I have no interest in it. And Gun Ray, and he is here, I think, presaging some of the stuff in a new hope, is like, you'd better, general. It's my money that finances the entire war. It's my money that pays for that body you wear for those insanely expensive magnate

guards of Europe. It's my money. Grievous moves so swiftly he seemed to teleport from the windows to half a meter in front of Gunray. How much use is your money, he said, flexing his hand of jointed deranium in the Nemoideon's face against this? And he is doing the like, your battle station is nothing next to the power of the force. It's just that he's doing it in, he's saying money is nothing in comparison to power. But he's kind of already setting up that structure.

And the thing he doesn't have is the force. What he has is power of a different sort. But I really love that sort of grievous is the mark one of what Vader will become. And the difference between the two of them is their access to different types of power, you know? Grievous doesn't get a lot here in this book so far, which is a shame because I'm so interested in him as a character. I think you could do really cool things with him. Stover didn't think he can laugh. Sover doesn't think he can laugh.

Where that is his whole move is an asthmatic. He's laugh. Well, and again, it's because the fucking the Tartikovsky Clone Wars, he's. He's a beast, man. He kills dozens of Jedi or whatever in that thing. He, like, is undefeated in that thing. He won V3 Shock T and two other Jedi and wins that fight. One of them looks like Shaggy from Scooby-Doo, by the way.

He kills Shaggy from... General Grievous killed Shaggy from Scooby-Doo. In Fortnight. No, in the real shit, man. He really killed Shaggy. I'm going to show you this guy. Oh, my God. I can't wait to watch it.

We got to watch it. We got to watch it. Yeah, I can't wait to watch it. I feel like the whole first season is for free on YouTube. People are out there. Yahoo anime rules. Please don't get that shit pulled. But here, this is the guy he fights.

He fights this guy. That's Shaggy. That's just straight off Shaggy. Oh, sorry. It is. Do you know what his name is? What? That's Shagg.

It's Shaggy. No. No. Oh my god, what? Dariaki versus Shaghi. Yeah, perfect. He fights Shaggy and Shati? Shockty, please.

It's very different. Shock tea is a real one. Shock tea is all the council. I know, but that's like, just looking around the room and being like, I was shocked tea. Shaggy. Yep, that's his name. Ship it.

Shoebby do gang would have blown Palpatine wide open. No. They would figure this out. They would pull the mask off, you know? The van rolls up. They get out. Mace windows, like, I can see the shatter points. I just can't.

And they're like, no, it's him. He's the Sith master. He's the one who has access to the sub-basement of 500 Republicans. Wow. I love it. I also, like, Stover at that moment is also like, yeah, I wanted to make clear here that, like, capitalists and finance types always think they're just, going to buy the fascist government and it's going to make all their dreams come true.

But power doesn't work that way. Like once you buy them in, they have no further need of your resources. Your resources are now theirs. That's right. And that's how you end up hanging out of the White House watching the Melania biopic when you're a master of the universe. I so badly want to see it. though. I'm like, what do you... Oh, I bet it's trash. What story is there?

Like, what... I don't know. How do you create... I wish I knew. I wish I knew. I wish I knew. Yeah. All right. We're gonna finish this book next time, I think. Yep. Woo-hoo. Yes, indeed. Maybe there'll be a lot of character growth. And before... Before she dies of the broken heart, like, Padme will come into her girl power. Right. Sure.

But also, like, it might be, yeah. Also, her power as like a accomplished woman in politics. Yeah. And Anakin will get some object permanence and be like, you know, it will realize the last minute. Maybe you'll learn some things about himself, too. I mean, I bet he will.

Oh, yeah. I can't wait for the boys crying on Mustafa. I'll wait for that personally. That's going to be really good for me. I'll bet Stover 8 with that. That's what I'm excited for. I'll bet like he was Yeah.

I'm having a good time with this book. It's not as good as I'd hope, but I'm having a blast reading it. It's a fun one. Yeah. Even if I'm annoyed often. Yeah. And I do think a lot of the criticisms

that we had last time in terms of like this battle is really uninteresting is like fixed in this one. Oh, for sure. The like social mechanistic machinations of some of the stuff is really fun in a way that like that was not.

The weakest stuff is the script. The movie that he's working from. Like you're right. Where he's got some like where he has more latitude, like his depiction of the senators and like where they see the landscape is much more in line with like a lot of the

Star Wars stuff that we've liked like the cool a qualish dude. A qualish no, a quorum dude who shows up at the clone wars and just like drops those bombs on Padme where it's like what do you think the Republic is. And glossed over this, like, Austin read the passage, but I fucking love the idea that one of the real psychic prisons the Jedi are in is that all goodness in the universe is the Republic.

You're right. Yeah. Totally. We can't, you can't just abandon ship because the only moral center in the universe is the republic. And that is laughable if you look at the state of that republic. Yeah, it is a bizarre thing where like this symbiotic relationship between these two institutions has now become like a fatal codependency. Totally. It goes some way to explaining why the Jedi just don't roll out and be like, we got to get Padmae.

Not Padmae. Anakin's mom out of that hot planet. No, all that stuff. That's in the fallen universe. That is beyond the light of God. Don't need to worry about it. Don't like to contemplate it. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I, we don't have to get into this because we might end up reading, I think it's in Shatterpoint, I'm guessing. But he, Mase Wendu is not human. He's K-O-R-U-N, which is a human-like species that looks almost identical to human, except they, I believe they all have force powers. They all have like force sensitivity, sort of like the, what are the green ones called? Why am I blanking on this?

with like the cool face tattoos, the stuff that Luminara and, and, oh, it's an M word. It's an M1. I forget, but they all similarly have,

Mirri Allen. Mary Allens, yeah, Mary Allens. And I think that it's like a, I think that it's like a jungle planet with like jungle clans who, who are in constant conflict with one another. And so I think a little bit of what they're doing with Mace is like,

he came out of a version of humanity outside of the Republic that was this sort of like Hobbesian state of nature and he sees the Republic as the sort of the rep it sees the Republic as the Republic as the thing that lets us escape into civilization and I don't love that for broader philosophical reasons but I do think it grounds that particular perspective of his and and because Because he's so important, it means that is what the Jedi believe. You could imagine a different Jedi master who is like, well, no, there's lots of different versions of civilization. Clone War is, like, well, civilization takes many different forms.

Sometimes they're Snow Yeti people and they're cool. They don't have to be part of the Republic to be a civilization. But his perspective is that. And I think that is, that's the stuff in here that is still, that is still getting me that. And all of the, I do really like, anytime they're like, this thing went up for a vote, I'm like, oh, tell me more about whatever Senate resolution. solution passed that you know slowly drip fed them closer to fascism. I don't know why I'm more interested in that.

I don't know what's going on that makes me interesting about that plot line. Like Padme being like, I will lead the vote. And I'm going to start whipping it right now. We need 2,000 votes. Well, we got five right here. I'm going to go hit the hallway in canvas. Oh, I did write at some point in here in my notes. Um, act blue wife versus blue lives matter husband.

So, uh, I think it was in their big argument. Okay. Like, so Yon is definitely Chuck Schumer. Oh, for sure. Here's the problem. I know. Padmey, I think really is Obama, though.

Like Padme is like, no, don't stop the NBA playoffs. You got to, you got a hoop. Yeah. Yeah. though we do Obi-Wan at one point who says like there has to be a third way so I lost it

all right well that will that will do it for this episode of a more civilized age or this episode Austin is an Austin special to turn around I guess it's going to be an Austin special

this is an Austin special it's supported by our listeners at patreon.com slash civilized. Apologies. Our schedule's been a little bit screwed up with, it's a bad season of illness, folks. It is.

And we are not immune to that. But we will try to sort of get back on schedule with the next episode. And we'll get a Q&A in your ears as soon as possible. Feel free to sound off in that email account. Just send your own questions, you know, for the bit of a risen here. maybe you're struggling to reconcile this with Duku Jedi lost. You know, come to us with those sort of doctrinal questions. And we'll sort of reach a, we'll create a new catechism together.

Until next time, please rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. And remember, Anakin has no object permanence. The second his wife disappears, she's just gone. Gone from the universe. That's why he's having all this bad dreams. He closes his eyes and immediately it's like, wife, question mark. And that's why he falls to the dark side.