A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 128: Star Wars (4k77 Version)

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

A long time ago in a galaxy, far far away... there was a spaceship with a princess and a pair of droids and a malevolence dressed in black. There was a desert world with two suns and a farm boy whose only chance at escaping the planet's gravity was a wizard who lived out in the hills and couple of smugglers looking for a big payday. And there was something grey--aggressively grey--a sphere in the darkness of space, blocking out the stars, lighting up envy green, and insisting on its own place in the orbits of galactic lives. Today we talk about Star Wars. Show Notes Star Wars Version Comparison Luke and Biggs Deleted Scenes Hosted by Rob Zacny (robzacny.bsky.social) Featuring Alicia Acampora (ali-online.bsky.social), Austin Walker (austinwalker.bsky.social), and Natalie Watson (nataliewatson.bsky.social) Produced by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt (notquitereal.bsky.social Cover art by Xeecee (xeecee.bsky.social)  

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Star Wars podcast, more than ever tonight. I'm Rob Zanning, joined by Alia Kampura, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. We are, as always, supportive of your listeners by patreon.com slash civilized. So head over there if you'd like to support the show and get access to all our Q&A episodes. And today we watch the original Star Wars. No, no. Duh. So for A New Hope.

Star Wars via the fan-produced 4K-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-E. 77 cut of the film that attempts to restore the original theatrical version of the film as best as anyone can these days until maybe Disney can undo some of the negative editing that George Lucas apparently did directly on the negatives of the film to produce the ever so special editions. So, do you really have to summarize Star Wars? Yeah, yeah, that's the fucking job. I actually want to hear this. Yeah, I want to hear your summary of Star Wars. So Star Wars opens with a ship being pursued through the darkness of space,

and then a bunch of riseless soldiers preparing to defend it from borders, and they get absolutely ruined. What? And then every, but as you watch, we have two little droids, a nervous, a nervous gold one. and a tiny little trash can rolling around, being very anxious about how all this is going, and they are trying to evade the firefight that's erupted all around them. They lose track of each other, and then what's this? The little trash can one, the Astromack R2D2, is being given something by a lady in white,

and then they hop aboard an escape pod and blast off down to the planet. of tattooing. Then we meet Darth Vader as he's storming around the ship as he's searching it, looking for the plans. And he encounters Princess Leia, who's the woman who gave the plans to the tiny little astromack. And she tries to talk her way out of this ticket valiantly. It does not work. She says this is a consular ship.

And Vader is not buying it. And then he tells, and then he tells his aide, call in the distress signal, say everyone died. And that's when it dawns on you that everyone that you saw defending that ship is probably dead. You see them being let off as prisoners, but probably all doomed, if we're being honest. The droids go down to the planet on their way to doom yet more beings. They split up after a bickering fight in the desert. the 3PO sees a distant sand crawler,

thinks he's being rescued in the depths of this vast desert. R2 meanwhile is abducted in a box canyon. He is stunned and abducted by a group of jawa's. You know, we all know them, we all love them. Just tiny little guys in dusty robes, just rolling around. in a big RV full of, full of trash and wears. All of them are going to be killed because of this decision. So the entire cute little, look at the Jawa's, little Jawa theme as they, as they bring the

droids aboard. All of them are now doomed. The Jowahs roll up to the Lars family farm, moisture farm on Tatooine. and Owen Lars buys the two droids after a bit of negotiating and a false start with a false start with the with the different astroback thus sealing his fate in this as well the two droids arriving on the Lars farm now means that Uncle Owen and his wife, Beru, are also doomed.

We get a conversation with them and their nephew Luke As he explains that he really wants to go to the academy This year Now that now these droids are here Surely he can just go to the academy The politics of Luke Skywalker fascinating We'll return to that later Because as far as we know

The academy he is referring to is an imperial academy Well we should talk about this Yeah We'll talk about this where we get there While he's doing some maintenance work on the droids though he does see a piece of a recording from

Princess Leia and R2 doesn't mean to have doesn't mean to have shown this he tries to bear face his way through it but he does explain maybe if you take this restraining bolt off me I can get you

the whole message and as soon as the restraining bolt is off he says what message I don't know what you're talking about me I'm just I'm just a droid who is who is the property of Obi-Wan Kenobi. When Luke brings this up with his uncle, his uncle says,

I have no idea who you're talking about. It's definitely not Ben Kenobi, a crazy wizard. He's just nuts. He's just nuts. We don't need to pay any attention to that wizard. Yeah, dude. Which is an interesting sort of double think

that Uncle Owen appears to be rocking here. After the family dinner, Luke realizes R2 has fled out into the desert nothing to be done for it now it's night time he goes chasing after him first thing not telling

his uncle that he immediately lost one of the droids he just bought and while he's out there with 3PO in his speeder he is attacked by some sand people and rescued by Ben Kenobi who

explains that he is indeed Obi-Wan Kenobi. He hasn't heard this name in a long time. So he takes Luke back to his place along with the two droids and

gives him a version of the story of his connection to Luke. He tells Luke about the force, an energy source that connects all living things. and reveals that he was a genitalite,

and so was Luke's father. And Luke asked what happened to his father, and there's a beat. And then he's like, well, he asked those other student, too, Darth Vader. And he killed Luke. He killed Anakin, who was awesome. And damn, I just, I screwed up,

and Darth Vader just went nuts. Like, he just, like, murked your dad. It was bad. So, with that said, he's like, you know, Luke, you have to come with me. we're going to deliver, we're going on this mission to Alderon. Princess Leia wants us to go on. Luke is, hasn't to do that.

He doesn't, he can't leave his uncle in the lurch, but as they are traveling around, they find the destroyed remnants of the Jawa crawler. Luke realizes if the stormtroopers did that, they would have been able to trace its path back to the Lars homestead. He races home and finds his aunt and uncle, pretty brutally killed. Yeah. And so he returns to

Obi-Wan where he and the droids are holding up higher for the Jawa's and admits he has nothing left for him on this planet

and so they go to Moss Isley to search for a ship off the planet and it's the nastiest bar you can imagine the greatest high villainian scum and the home of pretty easy listening jazz. That is what people are listening to in this absolute, like, Bedlam-like,

Solomon Gamora-like town. While he's there, Luke is immediately accosted by a couple of the Tufts, and we realized that there's more to Obi-Wan than we initially thought, because Obi-Wan just cuts a dude's arm off. Zero hesitation just chops it off, and everyone's like, huh, that was wild. Then they go talk to smuggler captain Han Solo, who negotiates them pretty hard to get a good price. You know, he says that while he's charging them more than most ships, his ship is the fastest in the galaxy and therefore worth it, especially because they're going to have to avoid imperial complications, as Obi-1 says.

Han seems very excited. This is his way to get out of some trouble. We get an inkling of what that trouble is when a bounty hunter, Grito, shows up, threatening Han with a gun. And in this version of the film, as it ever was, Han murders that little Griebett. Oh, yeah, dude. No Han shot first Han shot Grito did not

Yeah No Grito had no chance To realize what was happening Grito like Grito is the end of the Sopranos You don't hear anything You don't know With that bit of business handled

Everyone gets to the Millennium Falcon Which Luke says what a hunk of junk But unfortunately we have all grown up Thinking this is the coolest like Starship van ever. So it's like Luke, what are you talking about? That's the Millennium Falcon. It's got a cool little like motorcycle sidecar cockpit off to the side of the disc.

It rules. But Luke doesn't see it that way. He sees, he sees that it's kind of shitty. No sooner they arrived at the ship than stormtroopers arrive. They have to make a quick escape from the planet. And it was while they were on route that Princess Leia is coerced into giving up the location of the secret rebel base by Moff Tarkin and Darth Vader.

She gives the location to spare her home planet of Alderan, but Tarkin never intended to spare her home planet and makes her watch while he blows up, blows up the planet, and Obi-Wan immediately feels the impact of all those deaths through the force and then explains to Luke how all this works. There's a training session that we get here. As they sort of travel to Alderon expecting that's where they're going to be able to drop off the plans. We get a bit of conversation with Han as he explains that he doesn't know about any of this force business. It seems like a hokey religion to him. But Obi-Wan demonstrates how it can guide your actions. If you simply trust it by giving Luke a blast shield, he can't see him.

through and letting him, showing him how he can block a little laser blast from a drone if he just lets the force guide him. They come out hyperspace at Alderan in the asteroid field formerly known as Alderan and immediately our encounter an Imperial Thai fighter and they're attempting to pursue it so that it can't radio their location. And that's when they realize that while it appears to be fleeing to a distant tiny moon, it is in fact a space station. And they're caught a tractor beam and pulled aboard.

While they're bored, they quickly realize, Obi-1 quickly realizes they can hide and get out of this jam rather than going down swinging as Han initially wants to do. So they stashed themselves in the smuggling compartments to begin. to sort of wait out the first search team that comes aboard the ship, steal some Stormtrooper armor, and begin going around, turning off. Basically, Obi-1's going to go find the big switch for the tractor beam and just turn it off. While he's doing this, though, Vader seems to detect his presence

and realizes there's an opportunity here. We don't realize what that opportunity is. He just tells Tarkin, don't execute Princess Leia. I've got an idea. The gang rescues Princess Leia to get her out of a cell. And into a firefight in a hallway with no exit, she leads them to a trash compactor. They're rescued by the droids before the trash compactor can kill them. Leah and Han bicker quite a bit.

Obi-Wan uses his force powers to sort of open the lane to getting to the big switch for the tractor beam. In some versions of the film, when he goes to grab the tractor beam, he grabs instead a Surveza Crystal, a very popular beer of the time Is that in the 4K 77 or is that in this is specialized? You need a different edition.

Different edition. Okay, okay, okay, I didn't see that one. Unfortunately, the Servesa Crystal, the little like jingle for that and some of those scenes now just burn their way into my mind that like seriously sometimes we're like

Obi-Wan reaches out of frame, I'm like, oh, this is where the beer comes. Yeah. This is where the beer comes. Here comes the fine refreshment. Yeah. Advertising works. Mm-hmm. It really does.

Especially because those beers are fucking great. They look great. They look icy. They look fantastic. They look so refreshing. Yeah. So Obi-Wan disables the tractor beam, and as he's on his way to rejoin, rejoin the group. group at the ship. He encounters Vader, who says he's been waiting for this, has been a long time, and now he is the master. And they have a

lightsaber fight, and Obi-Wan makes eye contact with Luke. And in a moment that really you forget how crazy it is actually when you see it, because now we just sort of internalize Star Wars logic. We see what happens when someone gets cut with a lightsaber. Their limbs get hacked apart, and they get sliced up like meat. Vader dispatches Obi-Wan with the lightsaber, and as the blade seems to carve into him, his entire body disappears. There's nothing left. There's just an empty robe where Obi-Wan used to be. Luke freaks out, but hears Obi-Wan telling him to run.

They get aboard the ship. They flee the space station. they fight their way out Luke gets on a turret so does Han they blow a bunch of tie fighters and they make the escape to hyperspace

to reach the rebel base and we get in inkling now what's happened here Tarkin is still uncertain about this plan but they do confirm a tracker was placed aboard the ship

and they are going to be able to bring the Death Star now to the rebel base there's a bit of bickering aboard the ship Han stresses that he just wants money Princess Leia explains that if money is all he loves and that is all he will get foreshadowing Luke

doesn't like this tension between Han and the girl of his dreams yeah um major owls here as Luke is immediately meets this girl

and is immediately like the fifth wheel on the ship Yeah But the other two wheels You've mentioned Are R2 and C3Pio who are married

Right Yeah Yeah So they get to the They get to the rebel base Han explains that he's He's piecing out He's taking his reward money

He's fleeing Luke is very peevish about the entire thing. That's the only way we can describe it. He's very judgmental. Take care of yourself, Han. But I guess that's what you're best at. And look, passive aggression works. Yeah.

I wrote in my notes like maybe three or four times. This movie is hilarious. These people hate each other. It's amazing. It's so good. And that's why Star Wars is actually very good. That's why it's fucking so good. Yeah.

You need a group of... This is the best D&D party you've ever seen. Yes. Yes. People who are like barely scraping by who also hate each other, saving the world. And also maybe all secretly in love, but like in a way that none of them wants to ever mention out loud, you know? No. Yeah.

Yeah. Cannot be realized. Mm-hmm. While they're on... While they're on... While they're thruble base, we get the big briefing. about how they're going to attack the Death Star.

We have it explained. There is an exhaust port, there's a weak point that's going to let them destroy the space station. And crucially, the space station is mostly designed to be immune to any sort of attack from large warships, but it is vulnerable to the types of fighter craft that the rebels are going to bring on the attack.

The plan kind of sort of maybe succeeds. It's tough to call it like full proof or particularly excellent given that yet again, pretty much everyone in the briefing room is going to die on this mission. Everyone we see is, except for two pilots in that room is going to get killed on this mission, but they go up there. There's a big dog fight. There's multiple waves of attacks trying to fly down the equatorial trench of the Death Star

to hit this thermal exhaust port. they keep struggling to find it. Their computer targeting misses it. Meanwhile, with every attack run, Darth Vader and a couple of his Thai pilots drop into the trench behind the attacking fighters and slowly pick them apart and wipe them out with each attack run.

Until finally, no one has left, but Luke, Wedge, and Biggs, who is very important to Luke, but not really in this movie. but in the novelization. Well, and in a scene that's not in this movie. Right. It was shot, which we'll talk about.

If you go watch the 4K version on Disney. Is that scene in that version? Yes, it is. Wild. Okay, we'll talk about it. Yeah, you'll learn all about why Diggs's, Wild Bix's death is supposed to hit so hard. Anyway, he goes on the attack run.

Obi-Wan's voice, as it has been throughout a lot of, the mission, tells him, use the force, trust your instincts. And if you can only imagine how much it freaks out everyone on the ground, he's their last hope. He turns off the tarpling computer. They're like, hey, what's going on? And he's like, I'm fine, all good. And for a brief second there, you know that everyone on that, on that rebel base is like, we're going to die. because this little farmer is like, hey, check this out.

But it works out because as he arrives at the target, as he arrives at the target, Darth Vader is finally getting a lock on him. Han shows up, blast the tie fighters off of Luke, shoots Vader, doesn't destroy a ship, but knocks it off course and sends him tumbling through space. And Luke delivers the killing blow to the Death Star. It blows up immediately shortly after Tarkin has, as told he won't evacuate, even though he knows there's risk, because this is about to be his moment of triumph. Instead, it's the rebels' moment of triumph. They land, they celebrate.

R2, who was wounded in the attack, is, you know, 3PO is distraught. Basically says, if there's any plasma I can donate, please, let me, I'll give up anything off my mechanical body to save my buddy. and we learned that his buddy was saved. R2 is looking freshly polished and maintained at a big rebel celebration where they give Luke and Han medals for the attack on the Death Star. Luke is wearing a big yellow jacket. Luke is trying something. Luke is really himself. He's trying something.

He has that shit on. I don't know. He looks great. He looks great. I think he looks great. I like it. I agree. As people have pointed out, Chewy,

who was in the pilot seat of the bloody and bono. I can't do this. I'm so mad at them for not giving him a fucking medal. We'll get there. Not awarded a medal. But with that done, they're presenting the medal. Leah smiles at all of them. Everyone's smiling at each other.

They turn around. Everyone's cheering. there's more smiling. Art2 comes back and has a beautiful new like metal metal plating. He's clean. Maybe you said this and I missed it. Yeah.

And like three PO has like been freshly he's been freshly polished. They've hammered out the dense on his frame. And then that's it. Everyone's cheering. The Star Wars theme kicks in and cut to black.

Damn good movie. They could have ended it here and it would have still been a fucking all-time classic. You know what I mean? I feel like this is also the first time I've seen this cut. Like the first time I heard, I knew what Star Wars was, was because of the 1997 cuts.

Your first time you saw this, you saw bad CG Java? Yes. The first time you saw this, you saw like all the extra... That's a great question. Because it didn't to me. It read is added in. Like, it feels like even if you don't know that it's there, it feels juxtaposed.

Like, it feels out of place. And obviously from knowing Star Wars, I've always known, like, oh, Haundage shoot first. But I never like, I'm not until sitting down and doing this, I was like, I've never seen this. That's wild.

Yeah, I'd never seen this. What did y'all think is never having seen it? I mean, it's incredibly gorgeous. Like, I cannot emphasize enough how worth it it is to track down a copy of the 4K77

version Yahoo anime rules of course but I posted a link in our Discord to a comparison between I believe it's the silver screen version the 2006 bonus DVD

the 2011 Blu-ray and the 4K77 and mainly just looking at the 2011 Blu-ray as it's the most recent version of Star Wars that's come out versus the 4K 77. It's so much warmer. There's a, like, it feels like the coloring is just in a, such a cohesive

palette throughout the film, which I really love. And there's aspects of the opening where you can see one of the things that was added a lot in the

2011 Blu-ray was light effects, like different light effects. The red blaster like full. things are very strange. Entire frame red

light. And then when Leia is handing R2D to the the plans, the drive with the plans on it, like there's this really strong red light on her in the

2011 Blu-ray coming from the left in the 4K-77. It's just not there. Like there's so many additions visual effect editions that I would have never realized were so incongruous with the original. So I just, I can't say enough how beautiful. I just found myself the entire time taking screenshot after screenshot of how gorgeous these frames were. So on that level, it was a delight.

And I truly didn't realize how much had changed since then. Because I grew up with, I guess it would have been the special edition because that was the only one available. And that was what was continuing to be reprinted. So for a long time, no one was going back to the kind of original theatrical scans are not scans, but the original theatrical film, like the original reels, they were going off of already made scans of the special edition. And that's kind of what kept getting, you know, put out there in various, you know,

VHS to laser disc, to DVD and beyond. Well, laser disc is interesting because laser just comes up a lot in like trying to restore old versions of films that maybe got messed with in the Blu-ray era. Because Laserdisc comes before like Lizards didn't fully succeed as a format so you didn't have like everything

necessarily getting re-released on Laserdisc or like least multiple times. But there's a lot of movies where Laserdisc comes up a lot because it's like well actually the best version of this was mastered for Laserdisc and that's the one to get. Not in this case. Well I mean so like sort of the

history I think of salvaging Star Wars because like Lucas made the original theatrical cut unavailable once the special editions existed his position was it's my goddamn trilogy this is what I want it to be

and so you know this is this is all that's going to be released and then the word was like he had also messed with the original Legos so that you couldn't just go back to the source and get what he originally shot because he is literally

sort of drawn on the frames themselves. So, yeah, like, I think there's been a, there were a lot of efforts to try to find different sources to patch together a passable, like, good-looking theatrical cut over the years. Like, I, I feel like there have been a lot of sources pulled in to making this work. But I don't know 4K77. Is that just, is that just scanned from, like, one really good print? Yes, that is the goal of 4K-70s. There's also the what is it, Hany's, Hanney's version.

Harmi's version. Harmi's be specialized. Yeah, that is assembled from like the best of multiple different reels. So kind of digitally assembling like the quote unquote best possible version of the original theatrical release. but the goal of 4K77 was to have the cleanest single real scan possible. So it's interesting, I would say, so for me, like, I was lucky in terms of the timing because I got the 20th anniversary of BHSs, which Lucas had done a remastering pass. This is an addition that had like an interview with Leonard Malton before each movie on the on the VHS's. But he did a remastering pass with that release.

And so it looked great on VHS. But what nobody knew at the time was that like I think he was remastering it because like it was sort of it was right before he was about to start doing special editions. And so he was he was already cleaning it up so that he could release his vision using the latest of industrial light magic's tech to sort of best around with. films. So, like, I was lucky enough to have a really good, uh, clean VHS copy of like the original theatrical cuts, uh, before, well, not quite. I think by that point, uh, the, some of the title card stuff had changed to call the movie a new hope.

A new hope. But beyond that, most of it was still, was still intact. Um, and now, the funny thing is, like, when it came out in theaters, I thought it was awesome. More Star Wars? Like, I realized, like,

there's a weird, like, the history of like inserting stuff via CG in movies, I think is kind of weird and interesting because like,

there is a point where just anything being CG looked cool and expensive and neat. Like, whoa, how'd they do that? And in no time at all, it just started looking like shit.

Like, it's kind of, it's kind of bonkers because the way the framing of like CG is like progress, in some ways made you believe that like adding CG Java into the middle of Star Wars was an improvement

because you look at 4K77 you realize like what are you doing here? Like this movie doesn't need like this is an incredibly beautiful film. And also a tight film and uses all of its screen length. You don't need an extra seven minutes of material in this picture, you know?

No. Or however many minutes it is total in the specialized edition. And Rob, I think something else maybe worth saying for our younger listeners especially is we didn't know what the future held. And importantly, we didn't know when those editions came out that we would lose access to the previous editions. That's true. We didn't know that that would become a strategy for creating FOMO and making you buy stuff when it was available, like the Disney Vault. We didn't know that it would get tied up with things like licensing and streaming rights, as we now have lived through for the last 15 years. We didn't know that the sort of there would be a more general move towards CG like we have seen replacing practical effects.

We didn't know what Star Wars would become over the next 20 years in general in terms of its tone and vibe. Again, even then, we all heard the uproar around Hanshot first. We didn't understand the ways in which it would become wickified and franchised. You know, we had already gone through the beginning of the EU by 97, but we didn't know where it was going. And I think that there is a real, I was like you at the time, because I was 12, and I was like, whoa, more Star Wars. Well, special edition sure don't imply you're going to lose something. Totally, 100%. 100%, though I will say even at the time, I remember sort of turning up my own excitement more than what was deserved.

I remember that Java scene and going like, whoa, there's young Java. And maybe for the first time in my life, realizing that I didn't need to see more of the thing I love necessarily. And really funny, I remember finding out later that there were scenes that were shot that weren't even in that version. So I think that the first big scene is still not even in that version. And like, well, that's more interesting to me than like more dobacks of the big alien creatures that the stormtroopers ride around on. Like, yeah, they're called that, which I don't love, frankly. So, yeah, you know, I think that there's stuff there that's like, it's really important to conceptualize it in time and place. And in terms of what we had available, what we thought we would continue to have available.

But, like, there's just been huge changes to what is out there. And now we know that, like, next year, supposedly Disney's going to release these new, their own version of a despecialized edition, their own version of a 4K, you know, basic addition. We'll see what those look like. I have no idea. But I mean, we've seen some, some kind of. We'll see what the whole product looks like in the end. But it really says something that, like, it took multiple efforts to get us this one thing.

You know, many, many. Yeah, this is like a decade-long project, like, maybe even longer. And it takes, it's all, you know, volunteer people who are just doing it for the love of the game. who have different philosophies, different approaches, which I really, you know, that's a huge part of, I think, what's so convoluted

about this whole, what is the best version, best version? It's totally subjective in a lot of ways because people have grown up with different versions and then other versions have become inaccessible, like you said, and impossible to track down.

and even kind of scrubbed in many cases, like removed from the fucking universe. And so I really respect the incredible efforts that these volunteer teams have gone through to kind of put together their version. You know, they're kind of like, this is the best version to me of Star Wars. And they're, you know,

The 4K restoration project is, they've done a new hope. Actually, Empire Strikes Back is still in progress and Return of the Jedi. I don't know about the other ones. This is just the one I'm most familiar with. But, you know, it's just, it's fascinating because so much of what changed from version to version over the years was like also a demonstration of. of the technology that Lucas was investing in. So it was kind of like this, you know, like this proof of concept.

And that was so much of what the prequels became as well. It's like, let's use this technology because it's a tool. It's like the latest tool and it's something we're investing in and we're, and we're going to put as much of it in here as we want because, you know, why not? Why not play with like the shining. any new thing. And to see that kind of retroactively applied to Star Wars in the original trilogy over the years, I think Empire Strikes Back has a ton of changes, you know, over version to version.

It's, it's, you know, bizarre is one way to describe it. But it really, it just complicates kind of the. the audience's relationship to what is the best version versus what is my favorite version, what is the version I associate with being kind of the one personal to me. It's complicated. I think one thing, like, you should, everyone should go to the channel that Natalie sent us to, Star Wars comparison, where you just can run, yeah, these various versions. synced up and look at them side by side because like the different colors lighting is it is truly

mind-boggling how different Star Wars looks I will say I will say the 2011 Blu-ray release doesn't doesn't compare well to literally any release that that appears to be a disaster I it's so cold it's so cold and it looks it looks digitally processed to how I'm gone like it looks like they hit it with the Denoiser something because like they did if you go to the 4k version that Disney has they haven't really i'm not sure if they've released it no that's next year i'm pretty sure the one they've got on there on Disney plus um that is a really good transfer it's just the best version of star was you're and get with all the stuff lucas added but it shares this almost universal shift

toward cooler tones that we've seen in the digital age, which is kind of an odd thing that I'm sure people who work in the industry can explain it, but like your TV setting, but has a filmmaker mode or something, probably that has a slightly warmer tone to begin with. A lot of movies have warmer tones that they were shot with, and then a lot of times in the process of remastering or releasing them,

they end up shifting to much cooler tones. and the differences can be as drastic as like going from a nice soft indoor white light to sort of a daylight light bulb version of Star Wars where it's like, why does this look? Why does this look so fucked up? It appears to be like an aesthetic of the digital age and trying to make things look like a little more like digitally native. I also sometimes wonder though how, like I do wonder sometimes.

how much of it is because it is often old cinematographers and filmmakers going back to look at the stuff and literally your eyes change and start seeing things as more like red and brown shifted as you get older and so I do

wonder if some of it is oh this looks great to this looks great to be because now like you know they look at the thing they shot when they were 30 yeah as someone who's in their 60s 70s and it's

is like, damn, I just can't get. It's too fucking red. I got to slide the bar. Slide the bar at the left. But it is bonkers how much, like, consistently cross so many movies. Like, the original version, you're like rich, warmer, like, filmic tones. And then we've digitally remastered it. Cold, blues, and grays, like, predominant in the frame.

It's weird. I just want to jump in really quick because, I think Natalie, you said that Empire, the 4K80 was not released. 4K80 is out. 4K80 is 100%. It's out, but I think it's still, I think it's still, like, yeah, it hasn't been finalized. It's my understanding that. All of the reels have been, have been worked through, though.

Like, it's 100% through. So it has a one point. Sorry, it has a 1.0. It's not like a 0.8. It's not a beta. It's not a, you know. So it is, it is totally. the nature of these things to evolve as like if more sources are added or there's a different

way to scan it in. The one I watched was the 1.4 of, um, of, and I, I think I saw a lot of, uh, the 1.0s of 4K77 out there. So, um, to, to be clear about what version I'm looking at, it's 1.4. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that people didn't think that there wasn't one available at all. No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which it wasn't complete in, or like they were going to miss a scene or something. Because, because that is fully available. And I think it has been fully available for a couple of years and was, I think last, I guess now, 2024 is when they were like, all right, this is, we're happy enough with this to put it out.

We've done, you know, full 4K for 1080 PhD, both available, et cetera. And I really do, if you're watching this on a 4K TV or 4K monitor. I really do advise finding the 4K version. The difference is real. Like the picture quality is so nice in the 4K release. Nothing but nice things to say about it. And to be clear, like, what 4K means in this context is talking about the quality of the scan of the film itself.

It's not like a digitally up-resed version of a 1080P. like the the film stock itself is 4K like film film film is 4k it depends what what changes is the method by which you scan it that changes the resolution that you're going to get so um you know just just there there are great uh videos out there on youtube that kind of break down this this uh terminology and stuff you don't need to write in about how film is not 4K and we're all good. It's a, it's doesn't,

film doesn't translate neatly to that. We know. It's fucking close enough. Natalie is basically right. Please do not be annoyed. The film, the film stock itself is like, it's 35 millimeter,

which is often basically about 4K. We know there are other cases where I can get higher than that. Please do not send in corrections. Well, like at this level, the thing that is often, like it's access to the scale.

that can like capture the detail cleanly enough. Yeah. That is the, the scanners of like film prints and negatives are hugely expensive and complicated machines. So that is often the difference. But, you know, the first step in getting one of these, one of these great scans is like having access to a, you know, $300,000 piece of equipment.

Big industrial stuff, right? This is not prosumer. I do kind of wonder, like, what they scan the 4K 77. I'm sure you could go dig into it and find out. Somebody get access to a spirit, like, scanner or something. But anyway, but, like, it jumps off the screen at you just in the first scenes because, like, it's been a while since I've watched this movie all the way through. And just from the first, for me, the beauty of the production is the first thing. is the first thing

like jumps off the screen like the lighting inside the rebel ship there's some shot compositions that are just the shot of Leah feeding in the plans to R2D2 and she's like

three blast doors deep and they're like kind of like staggered and like they're cut in and in this version they have a kind of almost almost greenish color to them

and they're framed perfectly and there's a little red light but it's not this complete like Doom Silent Hill red light that is in the Blu-ray. It's like just from behind her and above her. It's so pristine and it's so lived in in a way that I actually forget

that this, you know, I think of the TAN-F-4, which is this ship as being pure white. And it does have a lot of white. But it's actually, especially without the blue Blu-ray version or the, you know, the versions that we've now seen for the last 20 years that have this kind of blue filter or this kind of blue color grading to them, this very cool color grading to them, it feels warm,

which is so important because a bunch of stormtroopers in perfect white are about to come on, and Darth Vader is this huge black presence. And so, like, yes, they are white hallways, but they're warm hallways. They're the rebel hallways. They're not the cold steel of the Death Star, the dark steel of the Death Star. They're not the white plastic steel of the Storm Troopers, and they're not the, you know, pure black of Vader coming in. There's all of this like complexity in the color in the set design that I did not remember there being at fucking all. The like the first moment that I realize like,

oh, I'm watching something different right now was probably within the first minute when you see like a blastfire go from the empire ship to the rebel ship that Leia and the rebels are on. And it like just looks like such an object. And you like see. how the light like just like floods the model so you can actually see all the detail that went into it. And I was like, holy shit. Yeah. This is this, this looks beautiful. And like the amount of like craftsmanship that is lost when you put these other filters on it.

And then to like cut from that in this like this model in this black space with this light heading it like very considered to a shot of C3PO and R2D2 and seeing like they have like dirt all over them. They're so textured. Like there was time into making R2D2's, like, paint look all fucked up and, like, the little black chips on C3PO. And I was just like, this is so, when you say lived in, it's just like, it feels so much realer when it, it, there's not like, fog between the two of you. Well, and I think the detail, this is like, the 4K picks up this detail. But watching on the BHS, I remember CthiPrio's like, yeah, he's a shiny golden droid. Maybe a little scuffed up. But, like, yeah, you don't, you really don't realize, like, how much every scene is, like, communicating.

Yes. The stuff's old. And that is amplified, you know, once we get to the tattooing stuff, where it's like, oh, this is, like, old. Everything is used. Everything's secondhand. Like, the Lars family is a, like, has the feeling of, like, an authentic kind of poor family farm where everything is repurposed or bought second and third hand. Everything is a project. You spend most of your time fixing.

the stopgap solution you already had in place. It also occurred to me, because the thing that strikes me in this movie is like, literally there's never a weak point in the presentation of it, the art direction, the consistency of the vision, the models all look amazing, the model shots are fantastic. Every scene is just rich with like fascinating detail and choices. And I was watching the diehard commentary this past, this past, this past, Christmas with John McTiernan and then I think his production designer for the for the film is also on there but the production designer makes this point and this is this was a commentary I think

that was recorded for the Laserdisc version of Diehard's this is a long time ago but he's describing how you know it's so the Laserdisc it's like the mid-90s he's talking about a movie that came out like 90 or 89 and he's saying that even as they're making Die Hard He started to get real concerned about how so many of the Hollywood trades around set design, decoration, construction, we're getting hollowed out because movies were moving toward more digital maths and cutting down on like set building and set construction. And yes, there was work for like the master craft people in these fields. But he was like we were lucky we had some. we had a lot of like old masters of this stuff on the film teaching younger cast members like ways to approach these problems but we were also shocked how much the younger members of the

production didn't really know a lot of this stuff because there just hadn't like no longer did you organically pick up all the tricks of the trade in a movie career because like there were just fewer opportunities and so I do think to extent you look in a movie like this and there is a depth of experience and quality to every aspect of this type of filmmaking that you can't easily recapture because a lot of the institutional knowledge and a lot of like again the inherited knowledge you know through the trade has diminished in the intervening years like I I just watched Rogue One before before watching this and I think movie looks great I love Rogue One.

You know, obviously we we love Andor. But I had to watch them side by side. But like still, I'm watching this. I'm like, man, this original Star Wars looks different. There is a, there is a level of like cohesiveness and convincing, convincing materiality throughout that even the best productions we get now really struggle to hit. I think it's interesting too, Rob, because I think some of the things that are really simple are really effective or also really simple and really quiet. C-V-PO has his right leg from the knee down is a slightly different plate metal than the rest of his body.

It's the same as the protocol droid behind him. It's this kind of like slightly more platinum gold than the kind of bronze gold, the yellow gold that he is. And it's just that one part. And that suggests a lot about him as being like putting. together by for the Rebel Alliance, like maintained by the spare pieces they have all around. There's never a shot that calls attention to it. It's just true. And if you look at the character in scenes where his whole body is there, you can see it and you can start to infer that stuff. It's not bright and red. It's not, again, you know, it's never part of a thing where he's like,

I have to get my original leg back. It just gets to be like that. And there's lots of that stuff throughout the film. And also just like lots of small techniques that, you know, there's a great lens flare in the first three seconds of this movie. As the Star Destroyer pulls forward and there's like the blue like afterburn or like the engine light. And it's just like it's there for a split second and then it's gone and it affects you because you're watching the whole picture and it's coming into you. You know, there's one stormtrooper whose stuff is a little more scuffed than the other four

stormtroopers next to him. And it doesn't feel like it's because they only got to get to one of them. It feels like because like that one guy has armor that's a little more scuffed up. even the Imperials have stuff that's getting scuffed up now, right? Like, that's core. He got hit in the fight, like, whatever that is. Like, those little bits really do stand out to produce an effect of watching the film that makes the space feel lived in and feel importantly distinct from the space operas of its, you know, it's contemporary and its referent space operas. Some of which it's exactly like.

I think that the intro, the intro text scroll, like, I have. I haven't read it in years, but just like, you know, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship. That is such a 1930s, like, you know, Buck Rogers. Like, that is just a classic Flash Gordon style sentence, right? Oh, there's a princess and she goes on her starship. That is so, like, basic. And the blend of that stuff with, and then you get into the space. And instead of the untextured, unleashed, unleashed.

lived in kind of phony-looking sets of its reference, it instead has this kind of greasy, oily, you know, we know what Lucas comes out of in terms of his relationship to filmmaking. We know that a few years before that he's making American graffiti, right? Like, this is a car movie, but about spaceships in so many ways. And cars are messy and they're dirty and they're pretty. And that's like, you know, he didn't make all these fucking things by hand, but it's clear that that was important for the entire production, right? And I think it really sets it apart.

And that in terms of thinking about what this particular version of the film, this, this, you know, 4K77 version made me think over and over again. It was 100% that for sure. And in along that line, I think, I just kept thinking watching this film. Like we used to fucking make movies. Like this is a fucking movie. This is a fucking film. And one thing that really struck me, you said it earlier, Austin, of like, this is a very tight movie.

There aren't that many characters. There aren't that many locations. Like, you are brought, I think that's one of the successes of the world building of this movie is that you're able to infer as much as you need to, in order to kind of develop your own relationships with the characters in these worlds, in these places, and fill in the blanks for yourself without having to be told, you know, and and and that guy is the, you know, has been a part of the Republic for 80 years. We don't see bail or Ghana.

We don't go to Alderan. But you understand the impact of Alderon being destroyed without having to go there and meet everyone and put faces to names. Like the idea that it is Leah's home planet is enough and the visual effect of seeing this world destroyed is enough. And then Han and Luke arriving to the destruction of Alderon, like amongst the debris and, And rocks. So good. Everywhere. That is enough to tell you this tragic story of what happened to Alderon.

I don't need to like go there. There's no emperor in this movie. The emperor exists. But he's not on the screen. Darth Vader doesn't need to call him. He gets mentioned twice. The emperor has dissolved the Senate we're told that we know it's an empire. We know there's a time before the empire.

We know the end of the republic has happened. But we never have to go into. And like, listen, I can't wait for us to see the emperor in the 4K80 version and the 4K83 version. It's like it's leaving it to come. Yeah. It's like it's like it's giving us just enough to fall for this world to like become, you know, engaged and interested in it without overwhelming us with, you know, I think all the time about Ursula Kela Gwyn and her writing. the way that she writes fantasy and this is something that's often talked about

when she's discussed and when her book The Wizard of Diversity is discussed that it is very succinct, that it is very efficient, that it is very productive in how it builds a world in, you know, just a few pages. And it makes me think,

and that being an in, you know, the first of a, series that becomes, you know, the Earth Sea series. And then this being the first of a trilogy that will eventually become, you know, a multi-bigillion dollar media conglomerate, at least thinking about it just in the trilogy, that this is just enough to bring us in. And then have us asking the questions, well, well, how does this relate to the empire? How does how has the resistance been faring all this while? Like all of these questions are able to organically kind of arise from the viewer

rather than be kind of to be prompted by by the movie itself, which I just really love. Yeah. You know, I think the thing that you're hitting here really is like, we've said now many times like this is motherfucking star wars this is in episode four a new hope but like I think I am on the team of calling it episode four a new hope is actually dope because it does feel like you're picking up something in the middle in a way that in the best possible way of this sort of episodic serialized storytelling which is like oh it's meant for mass consumption

you can sit down and watch it even though you didn't see the first three episodes and in fact some of the juice of this and like this is the other half of watching this again six years into our project here. I tried really hard to come into this and go, okay. I guess I didn't try hard to do this. There's two viewers when I'm watching. There's one viewer. It's me.

I was watching. It was just me. But I could feel myself pulled between how does this all connect to everything we've already watched? Is R. Obi-1 in here? And also, oh, my God, they never made a sequel to this movie. They actually never made a sequel to this movie. Nothing that comes after this is a sequel to this movie in the same.

that, or another way of saying this is like, the second you have to make a sequel to this movie, the second they did make a sequel to this movie, they have to start like trimming on some stuff to make it make sense. We know that Luke is at the point of finishing this book or this book, this script and shooting this movie, didn't know who Darth Vader was, didn't know. I mean, Anakin's name doesn't come up here, but we know Anakin as a name had been in various versions of the story before, but he doesn't know who Vader is in relation to Luke. He doesn't know Luke and Leia, our siblings.

He doesn't know any of that stuff. And so watching this and actively going in my head, what does he know and what doesn't he know and what can I learn about this setting just from this? Not from everything else. And if you're paying attention in that way, there's all sorts of shit that like, I don't know. I like zoomed in on. I was like, holy shit.

Like, this is different. This is just big time different in terms of, and we don't, I don't want to jump too far ahead. but a really quick example that we can come back to later is Obi-Wan saying that Uncle Owen didn't like that Luke's father ran off to like, to follow, follow Obi-Wan on his foolish crusade. What the fuck are you talking about, man? It's different. It's different. By the next movie, it's different.

You know what I mean? And that's already, that's so fascinating for me. And some of that isn't, has nothing to do with the fact that this is like the 4K77 version. This is an old real. But some of it does end up feeling like you don't get, you know, a thing of this that I think is really clear in this version that Rob, you gestured out already. There's a lot of fucking death in this movie. There are bodies in this movie. There's blood in this movie.

There's skeletons. Shit. There are skeletons in this movie. I think like you talk to the average star fan and you're like, oh, yeah, like, you know, Owen and bruised corpses. You can see the skeletons. You can see them. That's fucked up. It's cool.

This doesn't happen again in this series, pretty much. Right? It's like burned meat. Yeah. They're charred. It's bad. It's a different vision of what Star Wars is in such an interesting way. And I'm not saying that what comes after it is bad or that they should have done something differently.

But I think it's so compelling to come back to this text and go like, hey, what would I have expected if I had only ever seen this? You know, I was too young to remember what I was such a child when I watched this for the first time. I wish I could go interview, you know, seven-year-old Austin or six-year-old Austin or whatever. And be like, what do you think the next movie is going to be about? Who do you think? What do you think the Clone Wars were? Why do you think Luke's dad went away? You know, all of that stuff.

Because there's so many questions here that it raises by being evocative without closing doors. But it does close doors. And it does make suggestions. They're just often not the ones that we have come to have answers for, you know? Mm-hmm. I want to revisit that because everything you'd say is so important around the Obi-Wan stuff. Oh, my God. We were going to spend 30 minutes on that scene alone.

So let's get there naturally. Do you want to like start moving? Yeah, well, so there's one of things that caught me here is that in my head, um, Vader is just raw power that he is, he is the fist and Tarkin is the velvet glove and the, the, the strategist. No, actually. Watching this film, it is so clearly, from the first, Vader is smart and he's deceptive.

When he realizes that, you know, he knows he's got a spy. He also knows that if this goes back to the senator, whatever, it's going to get bogged. So he just says, let's say the ship was destroyed. Senate distress signal probably means they're going to, kill everyone that captured. At best, they're going to be sent to a Narcina like, like,

you know, black sight gulag. Yeah. Yeah. But no, they are not, like, none of these people are ever going to be seen again. And then they do the same shit with the Jawa's. They make it look like the sand people killed the Jawa's. That's like not the vision. When I

thought about, when I think about what I thought about the Stormtroopers when I was a 20 year old Star Star Wars fan, the things that I thought were like, they can't hit the broad side of them. barn. They're not very precise shooters. And when I thought about the Empire, it was like, they're a big, hulking, you know, messy organization. Not that they are like good at information control. And you're right, Rob, they center that on Vader. Vader is very, and I also didn't really remember the relationship between him and Tarkin being what it is here. I really, I think having heard some of the BBC radio production of it, which I think plays up some of it. I haven't heard this in 15 years or something. But, it plays up the animosity between the two of them they really feel like a pair

in this that and it's it's in my my read of this is like it's less one of them is power and one of them is brains it's two different scales of operation it's that like Vader's going to go bored to the ship but he has to be yeah go ahead

well no I think I would have I would have said that except I think if you look over the course of this film Cushing's incredibly unsubtle. Sorry, Tarkin is incredibly unsubtle. Cushing plays him as a brute with a polished manner, but he is a brute, and he's not a particularly crafty one.

Vader is the one who comes up with all the, like, tricky plans and figures out how they're going to do this thing. Tarkin is like, I bring big gun to rebel base and shoot it, Yeah. And seems genuinely surprised when Lay a lie to him about the, about Dantuin, like, which is sort of a 101 like, well, this is, of course, the first thing

we're going to do is buy time and lie. Like, what are you doing? But he does know that he, that when the dude says, like, you're the last person who believes your stupid religion anymore, when he fades back in the, in the sea, because he knows it's about to have it. It's so good. It's so good.

This is the other thing. Like, parts of the recipe getting lost. Grow. There's a lot of dudes and meeting rooms in the DNA of Star Wars. Like, this movie is like, look at these bureaucrats arguing about, there is so much. So, again, right from the first, board the Tant to four. The imperial officers are nervous about this. Like, the guy who is, like, the captain of his Star Destroyer or whatever is emphasizing

to Vader, like, the Senate's not going to stand for this. Like, she's not lying. This is not going to play well. What have you gotten us into? And also is like, you know, she's never going to talk. Like, this is, she's not, she's not, she's, we're not going to get valuable info out of her. So you have this like sort of nervous antsiness with, with the imperial officers where like, can we, can we do this? Are we like, we're kind of out on a limb here with you?

And Vader is the one who's like, yeah, we are out on a limb. If we're honest about what we're doing, but we're just not, we're just not going to be honest. We're going to disappear all these people. and then later, you know, the imperial officers are antsy about the Senate. And Tarkin is like, you don't need to worry about the Senate. The Senate was dissolved, which is not really an answer to that concern, right? Like, it's not actually like, the Senate is still kind of an important body, but Tarkin's, Tarcan is just like, no, it's not anymore.

It's done as it's vestigial. But you got a bunch of true believers here, fully half of whom appear to be deeply concerned about like, I don't know, like we gotta tread a little carefully around this. And Tarkin's like, nah, me and the emperor just blew it up. We did the Senate what the Death Star is going to do to planets. But so at every turn, like, you have the sense of, it's funny. I think we've talked before on the show about how the empire always felt to us like it was this big permanent thing.

We realized now it was like this 20-year crisis in Star Wars. but actually you watch this movie it feels like you were 20 years into like an authoritarian crisis where it's not fully consolidated even the people like they've got a fucking death star and still the brass

at the top of this thing are like a little bit hand wringing about some of the next steps they're going to be taking and they're particular in that scene right one of the imperial officers and I'm not like I'm sure there are people listening like oh yeah that's so and so

like we know like Yalarin is in the background of that scene, right? This movie doesn't give a fuck who they are. That's Imperial Officer number three to me, buddy. Yeah, but I do want to know who the smart one is. Yeah, sure, fair. Fair enough. Not the guy gets strangled.

General Tash gets strangled, but who's the... This movie doesn't care who that guy is, Rob. That's there to sell us the card game in 10 years, 15 years from now, whatever, 20, 20 years from now. But right now, that's a guy who should not have said the shit he said. and I'm really happy to be watching a thing where like, oh yeah, that gets to, he's there to do that. And that's all I need from him right now. But I do think that there is a one of the guys in that scene in the Senate was just as all seen is like, how is the emperor going to manage everything without the bureaucrats of the Senate?

Like without the bureaucracy, this whole, this whole big stupid empire doesn't work. And the response to that is like, oh, no, no, just the governors are going to handle. everything directly. So there's like a very particular move from a sort of technocratic, bureaucratic management system for the empire to a system that's really emphasized on governors with a lot of individual executive power. And that's communicated in a single line. And then all that's backed up with the military force of the Death Star. I've heard that it's really easy to just change things with a bombing campaign. That's what I've heard. Recently, I've heard that simply relying on long range, you know, artillery and bombing superiority,

you can just change the way people are. That's what I've heard. So maybe, maybe it'll work out for the empire in the end. Or maybe Leah is right as always, because that's the other thing about this movie right out the gate, is that Carrie Fisher fucking has it. She's my goat. She's the fucking goat. Vader owns the first.

She's so little. And she looks up at Vader who's owned the first six minutes of this movie and goes like, you can't do this. And she like completely no-sells him. It's like, he just choked that guy with his arm. Like when she doesn't use the force, by the way, he just lifts him up with the robot arm. I think it's with the robot arm. I know you can hear servos. I don't know if anybody else heard this.

Maybe those are background servos, but it sounded like there were his arm servos, which is cool. And she's like, yeah, you're no big deal to me. I'm just a diplomat. Well, and then when she meets Target. Oh, look at here's this fucking guy again. Like, she's very much, like, and part of it is also just like leaning into aristocratic privilege, cramped up all the way to 10. Like, if I just act like nothing can scare me. People are going, like, you get the sense.

This has worked out every time until now. Like, it has finally hit the point where they're fed up and off and they're not going to let her get away with it. But you get the sense that they backed her into corners before. and her strategy has been like, is preposterous, you think this will stick. And they're like, damn, she's got us. I really thought about coming out of this podcast and pretending like this was a sequel to my favorite TV show Star Wars Rebels

and be like, she's from that episode of Rebels. And we saw her do this in Revels. But I decided to be a human, a genuine human being instead. Well, so the other thing I'll just say about the Imperial boardroom scene is, I forgot that it's actually General Tage or Tag is the is the guy who's like I don't know if this Death Star is actually as good as you think it is

because like again the Death Stars presented to this like impregnable like super battle station but you have right there in the room like a traditional officer being like I don't know if this strategy is ready for prime time like you need a fleet to defend this thing like this whole thing still depends on the imperial fleet

dealing with this rebellion, which is the actual crisis, and I don't think the Death Star is really the answer to it. And Tarkin's response is basically like, yes, it is. Yes, and what do you mean? We'll just blow things up with the Death Star, and that'll win us this war, just on this sort of strategic level.

But it is striking the degree to which even here in this movie is just sketched in, like the empire's not all on the same page. It's not old. It's not as institutional as you think it is. And even at this high level, you know, we talk about like all the heroes hate each other. So do the bad guys. Yeah, sort of the bad guys.

Like, this is a movie full of people being bitchy and being put into the pressure cookers and just like getting on each other's nerves and reopening old arguments and needling each other for the sake of doing it, which is kind of a fascinating energy. for it. I think, you know, you talk about the way Star Wars

becomes more like let's sand some of these edges off and, and I can say, but like, dumb it down a little bit, which,

because I do think, like, Star Wars is always for kids to an extent, but I think things that are for kids become increasingly condescending to kids as you move through time.

And I think you just hit a point where you don't have conversations like this very often in, in movies pitched at children, or at least Lucas doesn't write scenes like this for when he's making the prequel trilogy and pitching it a bit younger.

It's playing like broader strokes. You don't have these conversations with all these implied disputes and context that's not spelled out. It is just, if you pay close enough attention, just the tone, the demeanor of all this, there's a complicated reality that precedes this and will succeed this moment. There's nothing like this in Phantom Metisor Attack the Clones, the border, the sort of command scene, command room scene.

Like, I guess the Jedi Council scenes are probably the closest thing, which maybe that says something. But in terms of like the de facto intentional villains, we just don't really get anything like this. And that's largely because like the villains don't really get to be on screen. in those movies too much, right? Like Palpatine, Residius is so in the shadows in the first two movies. We, and the villains of the Trade Federation in the first film

and then the impending, you know, are Patsies who don't even get good screen time? They get like, Lucas has leaned too far, I'd say, into the kind of serial adventure film stuff with a lot of their characterization. We don't need to go down the road of explaining that like the Nemoideans are like beat for beat yellow peril villains again. But like they're written like that.

You know, it's one thing if they were just like had the affectations of that, that wouldn't be great. But they're not even given anything to do that's fascinating or interesting or world building. They're just kind of there and they're afraid of the Jedi. And that's kind of like what they get to exist at as whereas here, this stuff gets to fill in the blanks about the world and make you ask questions. And they get to feel like people who have like differing opinions about stuff. And I think that that goes a long way to making this a kid's story that still can be compelling and feel.

Like you said, like, kids know that adults don't always get along. Kids are mad at their uncle who won't let them go to the academy, actually. And kids sometimes come up with an excuse like, I'm supposed to go to Toshi Station to get power converters when actually what they want to do is go hang out with their buds. And then their uncle can see right fucking through that. Yeah, exactly. And their uncle is like, no, you can't go hang out with your friends. You've worked to do. And like, that, you know, I don't, would Anakin's mom ever be like, no, you can't go do something in that in Phantom Menace?

Does she ever say no to him? Or is he just like the perfect little boy who's been put into the superstar position? He does a personal energy. Yeah. To be fair. I know, I know. His home is a jail. slaves, but still

like homeschooled. Yeah, big time. Yeah. Other thing that Star Wars is hell right away, there's a bunch of little freaks six times in this movie or something. We had, I thought Cantina would be the first little freaks moment, but the Jawa's bring R2 and C3Pio aboard their sandcrawler,

and it's Little Freak Central. There's like seven different unique droid variants right away. And that happens like three or four. other times in this movie in a way that I think it's just goofy and I love them I love them the hodgepodge of shit yeah rolls out of the sand crawler uh to the large the large estate and it's like here's a giant fucking like um like it looks like a prefab geodesic dome on wheels just like rolling around it's got kind of stuck to it like everything looks like a fucked up giant rumba with like arms sticking off of it and it's the most like the jaw what they're just junk paddlers they just show up and

they don't know you see anything you like it's all crap but it could be all yours the sand crawler i had forgotten how imposing and real it felt um i really love the shot uh yeah i was just gonna say i really love the shot of it approaching c3PO in the distance yes um when it's just it's like this tiny black rectangle and it's on the crest of this dune far, far away from him and he's like flagging it down

like hey, hey, come help me. And there's a couple different moments where Lucas deploys this like you know when you watch anime and the anime pro tag has like the little star in their eye

and it's like a little flashing star. star in their eyes. It's in this movie. It's in this movie. It's in this movie in multiple places. And I'm obsessed with it. It happened here. And then when they go to Mosaisley and they're in the canteena and the guy who's like

fucking with Luke is like and the other guy's like, he doesn't like you. In his eyes, he has two little anime stars in his eyes. You're the best one? is when Luke is talking to Obi-Wan and he goes, you fought in the Clone Wars and he has the sparkle in his eye. Oh, you're right, yes.

And it's like, holy shit. Like, I don't know how you got that shot, but it's incredible. You literally put stars in his eyes as he's hearing about his father for the first time. It's so good. It's just the lighting in this movie, which, you know, we keep saying Lucas,

there are a lot of people who worked on this film. Oh, hang on. I'll just say this, because I do think at some point, if we want to do a multi-episode arc on the making of Star Wars films by J.W. Rinsler, they are some of the best film history books I've ever encountered. One of the things that comes through this is the notion that you can attribute Star Wars to an author, George Lucas, is laughable on its face. Like the history of this thing There's a reason Rinsler opens the story With Francis Ford Coppola

And Lucas talking about apocalypse now Like you cannot separate Star Wars From Like all the shit that Lucas has going on But also how many times You know the other thing The thing he almost made Instead of Star Wars?

Tell me Radio Land murders Oh right That's right. Like he was like that almost had a deal to get to get made. And you're like, what's Radio Land murders? He did go on to make it. He made it like 25, 30 years later.

A murder mystery comedy set in, you know, the golden age of like radio dramas. And it's not a bad movie, I don't think. It's a fun little like crime movie. It's enjoyable. But it's also trivial. It's a very light thing. But Lucas has. fully half of his ideas, if not more, for his entire career that he's playing with in like

1974, 75, just iterating on. And then other people are sort of weighing in and redirecting it. And so, like, you really can't... We see what happens when Lucas gets the blank check and gets to do what he wants with the prequel trilogy. So we kind of have a sense of what that looks like. Star Wars is this thing that, like, is assembled out of influence. and like countercurrents in the production process that like you it's really difficult to reduce

it down to. Oh yeah. This is what George wanted it to be. Totally. You know, Gilbert Taylor, who is the cinematographer on this, would go on to never work with Lucas again because he had such a hard time working with him here. Tell me if you've heard this one about George Lucas before. He was hard to communicate with.

He couldn't communicate what it was he wanted from any given shot. And so it fell on Taylor to like make big decisions without his input. And thankfully, they were really good decisions so good that many of Taylor's kind of core aesthetic decisions, which he made to try to differentiate Star Wars from its science fiction and space opera contemporaries, became like de facto rules going forward even after he left working with Lucas. He wouldn't work with Lucas again. And then, you know, we just can't say enough good things about Hirsh and Marsha Lucas as editors. And I should say Richard Chu, too, but my understanding is Richard Chu was the first pass editor on it. And most of his work was then replaced with work by Hirsh and Marsha Lucas. But, you know, he did the first pass.

I should credit him there. You know, there's – and a lot of that is meaning making. A lot of the edits in this movie create what Star Wars is. Um, Marsha Lucas famously edited the final, the battle, the battle at Yavin and the Death Star Trench Run and all of that stuff and like fixed it is is the way that that story gets told. And I would fucking believe it. After it after it after he screened it to his buddies that it was a disaster. Like that is the story I heard.

Because I know there's a version he showed to like his buddies like the Palma and such. But the thing that always was talked about is they hadn't finished all the effect shots. And so there was, well, where two gun camera footage spliced into it sort of give you the Yeah, I've heard that version. but the impression I get is it was not well received for reasons beyond like the placeholder stuff that like Lucas's buddies came away being like

oh shit George is about to like George's about to eat shit yeah there was no there was no sense of drama or tension in the final battle as is what I read about it and specifically there was it didn't really connect the two places together It didn't connect the Death Star with Yavin'Four together. And a lot of her edits were taking basically B-roll of the base of Yavin'Four in the Death Star control room and knitting them into the action such that it produced a sense of tension back in the home base and produced a sense of propelling forward motion in the conflict itself, cutting between the two of them.

And then also, you know, the line that I think it said a lot is that she was like, my goal was that the audience would say, like stand up and cheer when Han shows back up because and if I can't do that then it's not then it didn't then the scene isn't worth anything basically and the movie is trash because like that's the stakes of the movie and and she was fucking right because it's about people you know it's also the hero's journey we know we know I know I know but also it's about people it's about the relationship between Luke Leah and Han like I was shocked like the first scene like the first three minutes of Star Wars are about humans like There's like the close up on these people's faces as they're scared of this invasion.

Yes. This moment with the droids. Darth Vader and the stormtroopers coming in and you don't even know if they're human. Like the escape pod leaving and being able to be like it's devalued because there's no life forms on it. It's the only reason they're able to get it out. I was like, what the fuck? This is all just like human politics like just smeared all over this movie in the first three. three minutes. And I was like, this is what the fuck Star Wars is about. What the

This is what Star Wars is out. This is it. We lost the recipes. We got to get them back. And I think to your point, Rob, the reason it works is because it isn't just Lucas. And I love Lucas's vision for Star Wars. We are big Lucas defenders often here. But it is important. And we'll continue talking about this in the next two movies, I believe, as different directors take on projects, that the collaborative nature of Star Wars allows a lot to come to it. And it's why I think we should resist reductive reads, even when we are acknowledging different particular authorial interests. So again, the thing I was just saying was, yes, the man or the hero with a thousand faces, the Joseph Campbell anthropology book, was influential for Lucas. It helped him crack the story.

We know this. This is real. I would never deny that. It is not the only way to to read the story of Luke Skywalker or the story of Star Wars. And I think it's really useful to think about the place that other people show up, the way that editing can shift and push on that version of the story and produce a different version of the story. Like, watching this one through specifically, one of the big things I ended up coming away with was like the centrality of R2D2 and C3PO, something that we like joke about a lot. But like, their centrality of this is so key.

And Ali, what you just said is like they are dehumanized from the jump. They are bought by Luke. And one of the first things that tells us that Luke is a good person and not just a whiny kid is he tells C3PO, don't call me, sir. You don't have to call me, sir. And, yeah, he still bought them at auction. Like, I'm not. There's a limit to this. But the story is communicating something to us about what a good person looks like.

And it looks like someone who says, hey, you know, don't call me, sir. It's someone who's concerned that his robot got blasted in the final. battle and is worried for him. I would also say the blind spot we've often referred to about like, like, you know, droids aren't treated as people. It's kind of funny. They're just though, uh, 3PO doesn't think it's funny. Like, again, right here in the first movie when the, the bit where, where Hans, like,

let the wookie win after losing to the chess master and chess master is R2D2. Yeah. But like, 3PO says, but sir. no one cares of a droid gets upset. Yep. And there's a, like, he's very diffident. He's still 3PO. But there is a bit of like, what the fuck?

Yeah. Like, Art2 just kicked this guy's ass. What do you mean? Can't do that. And so, like, yeah, Star Wars, like the politics around the droids are weird and goofy. But if you think the movie is not, like, the Star Wars never aware of it, at least this first film is that like 3PO and our two very much are they're keenly aware of their place in society and also in a few places sort of assert themselves as like hey man like we have just as much right

to play this game as you like this is why are your feelings valid in mine art he says how did we get into this mess I don't know how we got here we seem to be made to suffer it is our lot in life. That's what he says when he steps out of the escape pod onto the tattooing desert. And it's like, yeah, dude, again, you know, they're based on a pair of peasants from Hidden Fortress, the Kurosawa film. And peasants are not exactly slaves, but like there's a class relationship there. They have that class relationship in these characters and in their relationships with everybody else. It's like core to who they are for sure. Yeah, I felt the, the, the, the, moment in which C3PO and R2D2 get kicked out of the canteena was so fucked up.

It's wild. I know that line by heart. I know, but it's like, it's not funny to me. I'm pissed. I'm mad. We're not by their punk either. Luke is apologetic, but also he takes one look around. It's like, we just can't fight this fight today.

I mean, Luke is out of his, Luke is, Luke has never seen so many, like, Luke is in, fucking Oz right now. Like who, Luke is on fucking Mars. Luke has only ever been to Tashi Station. He has never been to Miss Isley? He's never been. Is that Wolfman dating the big worm?

I think so. Is that Wolfman? Is that Wolfman still love her if she's worm? I think so. And who's to say if it's a her? I don't know that Lucas ever met a gay person before, but he's about to. You know? I think that he has. In the canteen. I've seen. I've seen the

deleted scene with him and Biggs and I just think that they have a little, I think they got a little chemistry going on. Did they have the little saying that they have in the novelization, we're shooting stars or something like that? What? There's some line. I don't know this. In the novelization of Star Wars, like, Luke and Biggs have a thing they say to each other.

It's like, we're a pair of shooting stars. We'll never burn out or something like that. couple of shooting stars Biggs and will never be stopped. Oh, there. And he repeats that line in Biggs. In, like, he says

off, offline, off radio. Like, he knows Biggs has been shot down and he repeats the line. That's crazy. Why are we not reading the, why are we not reading all of the, the BL novelizations of the Star Wars

movies? Because there's Yeah, we're hiding from us and we, we deserve, we deserve to read it. Rob, you've been holding out on us. I genuinely think it's in the scene with Biggs that gets cut. There's two scenes with Biggs. So again, Rob, you have set this up. Luke goes, he buys the droids. But in the deleted scenes, which again, I'm going to be very clear, it's probably

a better film that they are deleted in terms of pacing. these it's very watching these scenes really made me go like oh yeah this makes it feel more like a bad science fiction movie from the late 70s um in one of them he goes to like the bar in tashi station which is like a nearby you know uh port town or like uh maybe like a hub that goes between different parts of tattooing it's kind of like a one bar town is kind of what the vibe is um and he goes in and he like runs into two of his like slacker friends who are like curl up at the bar with each other, like, they're dating. And then Biggs is there. And he rose over to Biggs, gives Biggs a big hug. Biggs has on, like, a khaki jacket and slacks with a black shirt and a long black cape. You can look him up, look up Biggs Darklighter, which, by the way, his name is Biggs dark lighter. And the four of them, like, hang out and they actually look up.

Actually, I guess this scene is before he buys the droids. Because they're looking up with Luke's binoculars as the escape pie. come down. And so they're just like chilling in town. And everyone's giving Luke shit. No one seems to like Luke. The second. They call him wormy, right? They call him wormy. That's right. Yeah, she's like, she's like, give me those. Wormy and like takes the binocular showroom. The second scene with the two of them is after the droids have wandered away. And this is where we get a little more context for the academy line, Rob, that you talked about. Because if you just watch this movie, what you hear is that Luke is, Luke's core conflict.

the first act of this movie is he doesn't want to stay on the moisture farm for another season. His uncle keeps kind of like denying him and gilting him to keep him to stay and keep him working the farm for one more season. It's always one more season. It was one more season when Biggs and Tank left. It's one more season again now, even though we got these new droids to help. I just want to go into the academy. And when he meets, when he talks to Biggs, Biggs pulls him aside at one point and is like,

listen, kid, because he's like, he's very like, he's very sempie coded, right? He's very like, Luke's looking up to him. This is the guy he wants to be or be with, you know, and, and he says, you know, yeah, my uncle won't let me, like, come to the academy next season. He's like, what are you talking? Like, we got to get you out of them. We got to get you out there. But anyway, I have a thing to tell you, I'm leaving the academy to join the rebels. And it becomes clear that this is kind of been something that they've at least talked about. Because he's like, I'm doing what we always said, which is go to the academy, learn how to be a pilot, and then rush off to join the rebellion. And he's gone through the academy at this point, Biggs has, and it's, like,

about to go on his, like, second deployment or whatever. And as soon as he takes off with the fleet, he's going to, like, defect and go meet him. He's, like, found his inn. And he's kind of, like, Luke, you got to follow me, like, maybe not right the second, but soon. And Luke is like, but I can't. my uncle says I have to be a farmer for longer. But they have a real, you know, I think they have way more chemistry than like Luke and Leah do in this movie, for instance. And it really is important for Biggs' death to make any sense later as like a thing that matters to Luke.

But, you know, they cut it. This scene is stunning to watch muted. There's so much physical intimacy between the two of them. They're like so. close to each other all the time. He slaps his ass, Allie. He slaps his ass when he's leaving. So, yeah.

Shadow to Biggs. Also, like you to say this, Biggs is getting that shit off. Biggs has like a black cape on and it should not work with the rest of his outfit. Because it's an outfit you would see a guy with. Do you imagine what you would do to a dude from your hometown if you showed up wearing a fucking cape at the hangout? And he came back from the airfield. Academy and he came back in the cape. Dude, dude, like, we once

roasted, like, me and a buddy once roasted this shit out of a guy who showed up wearing his combat boots to a party. And it was just like, we just started laughing at him. And then everyone started laughing at him. It was really awkward, but it was also really funny.

Because it was like the most, oh, these? These are my combat boots. God. Sometimes your friend tries a thing and you just you need to let them know that it ain't out. Oh,

one other thing about this big scene. Again, this is Austin who has seen all the movies and we watched Clone Wars and I care about all of it. Not Austin who's watching it on the first time. Like, you know, trying to be the naive viewer. Biggs, you know where Biggs says he's going to go to join up with the rebellion?

Bespin. He's like, I know a guy who can get me connected to the rebellion at Bestbin, which is the Kyle City. He's showing wearing a cape. He's showing wearing a cape. A cape. He's been talking to Land of Calarizian. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. He's stealing his swag. He's stealing his swag. He's stealing his swag. They can't let us have nothing. They couldn't even let us have capes in Star Wars. You put one brother in Star Wars and he had to jack his swag in the movie before he wasn't in it. You went back to your planet?

He can't have nothing in this world. Oh, my God. That's fucked up. God, just the, how are you radical? Biggs. So I was on Baspin and I saw the coolest man who ever walked to, who ever walked

the earth. He had risen his name. I knew I had to sign up. I wear this cape in honor of him. The man who changed my life. It's an act. It's an act of homage, actually. This is my homage to him. When we're thinking of a sand crawler, because I said this

and I didn't actually say it, that thing was really 90 feet long and really two stories tall. And they built it. And then they had to move it into the desert and build it again. And the sandstorm blew it apart. Yes. Uh-huh. Sorcerer happened.

The movie Sorcerer happened with the sand crawler. They moved it out there. And then, yeah, it took. And then it took a whole other day for them to like burn it up for the seed where the Javas are all toast. So. I love practical effects. Me too They made this damn movie

They made that They made that shit 3BO needs to shut the fuck up This is why This is why they wiped your mind This is why they wiped his mind You know what I'm talking about Rob? Uh

After he buys him He brings him home And this is before he sees the Leah thing And Luke is like it seems like you guys have been to a lot He's like yeah We've been in a ton of war

God, yes. With the resistance, actually. Yeah. Sometimes I'm amazed we're in what the condition we're in. What with the rebellion and all? Shut the fuck up. Dudea. I love when he's like, you know, just in a manner of speaking, that's why we're with you now.

Like he's trying to be like, yeah. And he's like, but I have no. I have no idea what this little droid wants and what mission he's on and everything he's talking about. It makes no sense to me. I'm so happy to be here in my oil bath. We do not need to leave the moisture farm. I love it here. You're my new master.

100%. I'm loyal to you. Fuck this little guy. I don't know what he's talking about. But yeah, we've been like a part of the rebellion. Yes. He did get him saved. He did get him saved, right?

Because they bought that stupid, bad, broken ass other R3 unit, the red one. And it broke. and C.3BO was like, oh, that other unit, that other Astromack is very good. I worked with him before. Yeah, because that's his husband. I know. I think they're still just talking at this point. I don't know. I mean, maybe if it's like I'll meet you again and again every time of my life, every time my memory is destroyed and fall in love with you again, because I feel like they're not there yet. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I mean, the important distinction. Resurrection A.U. For Freepio and R2. Yeah. In every

free life. Yeah. It's true. It happens. I mean. And in this movie, it is not clear how long they have been together. And it is not clear that anyone else has ever heard about them. Let's just say that right now. Obi-Wan is not like, oh, oh, shit. No, Obi-Wan is playing in R2-D2's face. That he's making eye contact with R2D2. Be like, wow, I've never seen you before. I, it's, I think it's a game. You think he's playing? I think it's a game. Okay, okay. I think he's, yeah, he's being like, I never owned a droid. Well, also, it's funny.

He does literally say that, which is absurd. We saw you go to war with like eight droids with you. Anyway. They were government property. You're right. He, because I was a Jedi. I never was allowed to own anything except for my Patawan braid. Yep.

Oh, my spaceship, my etchings, my mandolour. My books about foreign cultures. Yeah. That didn't own that. That was all property of the Jedi order. But I like the sheer number of things that you can sort of say like, well, actually the kind of tracks with what, like when Owen's like probably translation and etiquette, right? Well, I don't need that. I need something to talk to the binary language or moisture vaporators.

And 3PS like, oh, that's my first, that's basically my first language. Like my first job was working on something like that. And it's like, he may not remember the details, but he was programmed by Atticine in a junk shop on Tatooine. Like the first jobs he would have done would have been working on type of busted shit that's around Tattooing. And so the things that kind of end up matching up pretty well in this because there's space that like does connect is kind of funny. The thing that really is difficult to square is what we see. with Owen and Brew. Yeah.

Because, first of all, talk about vibes and just tone that disappears from Star Wars. The notion of just sort of a lower middle class family at home with, like, the stress and anxiety of, like, just having to work and, like, living a life. Yeah, and just live and die by, like, commodity prices and whether or not you can, you know, make the harvest or something like that. But little beats like Owen and Brew talking while she is feeding vegetables into a pot. And it's not a long scene, but there is so much detail about like Owen is gruff, but you can easily read him as fundamentally he's being protective of Luke. That Luke wants to go out into a wider galaxy that Owen knows is not good news. If, like, Luke is as safe as he can be as long as he stays on the farm.

And once he leaves, there's a lot of bad things out there waiting for Luke. And then you have Baru, who is very much the, I'm going to lose my son, basically. To the galaxy, like, it is inevitable that we cannot keep him here. And that is sketched out very, very economically. It has done very, very well. And that's a tone that really disappears from Star Wars. It's really not until a skeleton crew that we start getting like, oh yeah, people do like raise families and like have domestic life in Star Wars. This, this note largely disappears from Star Wars.

I don't think, I don't think the scenes with Schme really have the same vibe in the prequel trilogy. That is a religious encounter. You're meeting the Virgin Mary, basically. That is kind of how. that is played, but this really does just feel like Luke is a frustrated, somewhat whiny kid being raised by two, by one sort of emotionally constipated parent and one sort of like more supportive parent follows his lead. That is done very, very well. And I was surprised how warm those scenes feel, right? And how hard it does hit when you realize those sweet people

Ben just like brutally murdered when he when he gets home yeah the things that don't really match up so well is this Owen knew Luke's father 100% and doesn't like the ways that Luke resembles the father he explicitly says that's what I'm afraid of right when Peru says he reminds you of of his father and reminds me of his father and then later you're going to have Obi-Wan talking about how Owen didn't approve of Luke's father going off on his damn full crusade that he got involved with the Clone Wars. He didn't hold with your father's ideals?

What? None of the stuff matches up. There's zero way to connect this Owen, this Owen Lars, to the dude that, like, Anakin encounters like five seconds on tattooing, being like, where the fuck is my mom? It's like, oh, I guess we're kind of brothers, stepbrother.

I don't know. But anyway, like your mom, she loved my dad who bought her. Anyway, dot, dot, she was taken by sand people. You should go do something about that. And like that's basically it. Maybe does he go back to Owen Estuary like murders all the sand people? I can't remember. Maybe.

Maybe that now in the expanded universe, that's probably true in some way. Didn't make an awesome impression, but also just didn't fundamentally didn't know the guy. This is another case for, I think, Allie you had made. Maybe it was Natalie. Who in the last Patriot episode was like, there should be a Jedi Rumspringer, the sort of Amish. I think it was Ali. Like, he should have gotten to come home and work the farm for a year. That would make all this, that would square all this away.

Because then, then Uncle Owen would have had a year of Anakin, whose mind is filled with, like, the broad idealism of Padme and the like, the proto-fascism of she. just talking at him while they're working on the moisture vaporators being like someone needs to do something about the the impurities of the galaxy and he's like oh my god Luke cannot grow up to be like that we can't we can't let that happen well you need to do something about is this malfunctioning condenser Luke yeah you want to make that fucking condenser where you try to do something about about the disorder in the galaxy at large Look, sometimes clean your room is not bad advice It's just going to use a shorthand for something else

But sometimes that room really does need to be cleaned Sometimes you could just focus on the room though You don't need to extend that out to a metaphor For like different types of people No, so just pick your shit up Figure it out anyway Binary sunset hits He leaves the home

He looks out on the damn sunset This was one of my Remember When movies used to have a colors moment Like I mean you can't say enough about the binary sunset being like an iconic scene that's gorgeous. But to go from that to Luke going into the the dark room with the like all black and C3P was the only light on him, I was like, what the things used to look like this movie? Like we used to be able to do it. Like I was shocked. I was stunned by by how beautiful that was. I get like just on the Lars home life.

stuff to go back a little bit. Like I so appreciate how much that stuff has been untouched by the canonness of it. Because like when we talk about the efficiency of the script and the story, like, the like bread crumbing of details about Luke's father that the audience like goes through as Luke to be like brought on to this journey in terms of like, I don't know my dad. and I want to leave my home. Like talking about Star Wars as a car movie before, like I was realizing like how 70s this felt in the sort of like,

I just want to look in the distance and leave my home. Like you didn't have Instagram of like, here's my travel vlog and here's my like, here's the 10 skin scare items I bought from Japan from like 40 other people every single day. Like just like the wonderlust of like there is a world beyond. what I am seeing and I want to see it so badly. And the only thing that's going to take me there is being able to drive a car is like, Born to Run came out two years before this, baby. It is a lost art.

It is like a lost human emotion as far as America goes, sort of. And just like just feeling it's so distilled in this movie being like, damn, I fucking feel you, Luke. Like, I get it. Go learn about your dad. 100% yeah well and he does learn about his dad sort of kind of okay so things you can read into yeah you knew my father what happened and then the pause the pause the pause before obiwan begins a version of the story Lucas made out of known fully what though but I don't know like

to do my man's name was Darth Vader, Dark father. He didn't though. We know that he didn't because he had a different plan and that we know when it changed to some degree. Because he thought, because again, he did think the plan had been that Vader killed Luke's father. That was

the plan for some time. So there was a father relationship. And so the thing that had happened was that Obi-Wan had lost his best friend who was Luke's father because his pupil had killed him. Right? And so There was fatherhood,

Obi-Wan as a parental, you know, stand-in and like, then he has to disson. All that juice is there. But he hadn't found the, he hadn't found the third heat, which is you could just collapse those two together and make him both yet. But it does mean what you're saying, Rob. It's potent.

There is a pregnant pause here. Well, and this is what, you know, we all know, Allen has hated making this movie. He thought it was stupid, didn't really like the,

didn't really like the process, didn't like the kids, really didn't like more camel. And yet, the thing he brings to it is this sort of ambivalence and, what's the, what's the put it? Like, just a certain relaxed philosophical relationship to the world that comes with age, but also this sense of, like, his experience. Experiences have made him someone that, like, easy, straightforward answers do not suffice. That he finds it difficult to give them.

And that is present in every line reading. And it matches up so perfectly with now we realize this character is perpetrating, like, a massive deception on Luke in this moment. The actor may not know this in that moment. Lucas may not know it in this moment. and yet there's that hesitation and a consideration before he begins to tell a story that's pretty sparse on details

and so still in his approach Aligh Ginnis injects this ambiguity about the story that you know the first time you hear it if you don't know what's coming it is easy to think

like Luke does well there that's the story there's a short version of the story but fundamentally that's the story and then you come back to it later knowing what you know, and you're like, oh, I can easily see the moment where Obi-Wan committed to the lie. Yeah. There's a beat, and he doubles down on it, right? And it's interesting, I think this is part of the, this is the Lucas magic, right?

Because I don't want to say, we talked before about the importance of the collaborative process and blah, blah, blah. Lucas is still the director of the film and the leader of the franchise for, you know, a long, a long time. And him cracking that, whether he did that with collaboration with other writers or other, you know, bouncing ideas out, who knows, but like the fact that he threads that needle and does it in a way that makes this stuff resonate differently is part of the magic of these movies. And it's not just, you know, even the, the Owen stuff we were talking about where it seems like he knew who Vader was, like he knew that Anakin, that stuff makes sense

if you think that he knows that Anakin becomes Vader, right? Where it's like, oh my God, Like, you don't want him to grow up to become like Vader. All that stuff gets more resonant. And that only loses resonance as we have come to hear other versions of their past and know that they didn't know each other. But this stuff all just gets better as the series continues. And I think that there is also like, one of the things I was thinking about a lot here was like, what other versions of Obi-Wan are contained in this performance? And you can find the Ewan McGregor version of, and the James Arnold Taylor from the Clone Wars version. of Obi-Wan here in small little ways that I did not notice before

when when when Luke is like we're looking for someone named Obi-Wan Kenobi but we think he's dead and he goes oh he's not dead not yet and it's like oh that's that's our Obi-Wan Kenobi I also thought a lot of the way that Obi-1 that Ben Kenobi talks to to Luke when he's like bringing him around the Java, you know, desecration site. He's, like, asking Luke these leading questions. He's like, don't you think it's odd that these tracks are side by side? And Luke is like, hmm.

And he's like, well, you know, sand people usually walk in a straight line. What does that make you think, Luke? What do you think of that? Luke's like, huh, maybe it's not the sand. Like, it just, that kind of like, gentle, like, parenting vibe is so our Obi-Wan to me. For sure. That really came through, I think. Zanagan's son, you got a slow walk everything.

You do, you do. And you got to let him think it was his idea. You've got to let you get it. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, the fact that he's like, when he's like he was the best star pilot in the galaxy into cunning warrior and he says some other shit and he's like, and he was a good friend. Like that's it. That's still true. That's true.

The whole series, they. And I think that that's part of the adaptive process. And they say adaptive even though it's Lucas all the way through because when you make a prequel series 30 years after the original, you're doing a sort of adaptive maneuver. And you're deciding what in these original? texts do I have to treat a sacrosanct? What do I have to line up to and what do I not have to line up to? And to go back Allie to this is a movie about people. They made the right decision. And we have talked a lot about the prequels and what works and what doesn't work. But they made the right decision, which was the the relationships need to be true. He was the best star pilot in the

galaxy and a cunning warrior and he was a good friend. That's more important for Lucas and for Star Wars, then Owen feared that you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn full idealistic crusade like your father did, or that Owen didn't hold Anakin's ideals, whatever those were. Like, that stuff is not as important. What's important is the relationship between Obi-Wan and Vader slash Anakin. And they, I think they smartly zeroed in on that stuff and said, okay, let's keep that stuff central. We don't have to fill in what the crusade is.

We can come with a Clone Wars answer that really feels different than what it's suggested here and in some of the previous EU material. And I think that that is the Lucas Magic in some way. You know, it's not that it rhymes. The trick isn't always it rhymes because I wrote two things and I made them rhyme. It's because I wrote something 30 years ago. I wrote a bunch of stuff 30 years ago. And I figured out what I could rhyme with in it that would make it feel like it was always intended to rhyme the whole time. You know?

Totally. The other thing that the Al Guinness performance really highlights is, you know, you're mentioning that all these other performances are contained within it. It really does highlight just the absurdity of not recasting some of these characters. Because it is so much more compelling to have another talented performer identify in the work of a peer what was essential about this character. What are the notes I'm going to hit and really capture? that is so much more interesting than simply trying to produce a facsimile of a performance.

Like, again, I just watched Rogue One. I understand feeling like you badly want to have Peter Cushing in this movie, but regrettably he's long dead. But the worst thing in Rogue One is this decision to put in, like, digital Peter Cushing. It is a disaster. It only looks worse every year

because the execution level's just not there and it really stands out. But the other thing is this. This is not creative casting by any means, but like the equivalent of Peter Cushing right now would be like a Ray Fines. Right? Like that is a, like if I were like gunhead who could play

like who could basically do that Tarkin in a live act. But it would be Ray Fines. There's probably other great, we know there's tons of other great like, you know, stage actors who could pull that off. But the point is, I would so much rather watch someone sort of having done the work of identifying what's the essence of what Cushing does with this role.

What am I going to bring to it for these scenes where I'm sort of reprising it? That is so much more interesting than what if we smear his face over a body double and see if anyone notices? Like, this is the, you're, like, we've been so much more rewarded by seeing other people take a stab at Obi-Wan. And in Clone Wars and then Rebels, having that performance change over the course of the series was, totally. Comes back to us now as an old man, as the character we know. Not to mention, just denying us the opportunity to watch a man with beautiful high cheekbones. like just

maug us from set is just unforgivable unforgivable yeah you're telling me you couldn't put out a casting call in Hollywood and get or in the UK and get someone who's like

I've always thought I could give Cushing a run for his money with my cheekbones you know give me that man he's there he's out there I want to see him I want to see him perform it's fucked up but to your point Rob

about the lie. Here, the lie of Obi-Wan. He says, how did my father die? A young Jedi named Darth Vader. Again, we're just going to have to bracket it. It's not what he was called. Darth. We know, we know that Darth is a title and not a name, but he doesn't know that yet. A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who is a pupil of mine until he turned evil, helped the empire, hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Also, we're going to bracket that, a double jump. He doesn't know. He doesn't. He doesn't know. He doesn't know.

Vader. Well, we can't talk about the O'IKnoly show. I know. We're not doing it. We're not doing it. We can't happen. He didn't happen. He didn't, he didn't meet Riva and the, uh, sat and the, uh, the, Sith

Inquisitors. He didn't, I mean, that's going to drive me crazy. He certainly didn't go on the venture with Leah. I am going to lose my mind. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force. The force? The force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things.

It surrounds us, penetrates us. It binds the gals. galaxy together. This is the other thing that I think actually wildly changed with my view of this movie. What is the force and what do people think about the force and also about wizards and sorcerers in the galaxy? You mentioned Rob that Uncle Owen is like, oh, that old wizard, like, and he just says it. He's not like the guy who thinks he's a wizard.

He's not like that old kook. He's the only the wizard who lives in the dunes or whatever. And then later, and this is the one that blew my fire. fucking mind. I didn't. Han says something different than I thought he said when he overhears Ben training Luke. Does anyone pick up on this? Because, okay, the conversation that gets said often about Star Wars, at least maybe Rob, when

you and I were like deep in Star Wars fandom, I think Ali, maybe when you were also in deep in Star Wars fandom, you probably heard this, which is like, how did everybody forget about the force in only 20 years? Like how does Hans Solo not believe in the force? It was only 20. He was alive when there were Jedi over the place. He doesn't say he doesn't believe in special powers. He says he doesn't believe in one unifying force.

He says, I've seen a lot of strange stuff, he says. But I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all powerful force controlling everything. There is no mystical energy field that controls my duty. destiny. It's a lot of simple tricks and nonsense. He has seen strange stuff. He has seen wizards. He has seen people do Jedi mind trick type shit. He's probably seeing people do double jumps before. I played the video games. This motherfuckers are double jumps all over the place. But that doesn't mean that there's the force. There doesn't mean that there's this universal unifying principle. And that's the actual particular Jedi thing that I think is really

interesting that you might miss if all you've done is talked about these movies for 20 years, which is what I had done as a kid. Yeah, I'd seen them, obviously. I had loved them. But I didn't zoom in on that particular bit. And I think that with the initial Obi-Wan explaining what the force is, the thing that makes the force special isn't that it lets you do a double jump or let you force choke somebody. It's that it connects everything. It's that there are a bunch of other mystical ways out there probably. There are wizards. And all of that stuff is an echo of this deeper, truer thing called the force that binds everything together. I thought that was also like the mysticism here has an actual theology to it.

It has an actual like mystical, metaphysical, like clarity that I did not really think about before because I'd always thought of stuff like the witches of, oh my God. Dathamere. Dathamere. Thank you. Dathamir. or the weird fairy creature from that one episode of Clone Wars and been like, well, what the fuck? Where does any of this fit in?

Like, who's, what is Mother Talzin doing? And the answer is she's doing magic, but even magic is shot through with the force. And I think that having that clarity of that here was actually super useful in terms of like understanding what is what the Jedi originally believed in relation to a world with a much of weird alien creatures and where the word wizard and sorcerer get used over and for a thing. Yeah. Yeah. To me, Hahn is saying, like, I'm not a Catholic, but, like, I've, I, you know,

the universe works in mysterious ways. And, like, there's shit out there that I can't explain. But, like, I'm, I'm not going to, I'm not subscribing to this, like, particular theology, this particular definition and understanding of how the universe works. that is not me. And some of it's trickery. Some of it is lying.

And some of you motherfuckers are lying. I've seen some strange stuff. But some of y'all are scammers. And I'm just not going to pretend that it all like fits together neatly. And he's right. There are fucking scammers out there. Yes. Yes.

So. Yeah. Like that is that is. Because I remember it the way you did Austin, which is like I'm mostly locked on to the nothing beats a good blast at your side thing. Right. Yeah. No, this is all fake.

and that really is not what he's getting at. It is simply that like Obi-Wan is in the process of induct, like right there on a shift, Obi-Wan is inducting this farm boy into a religious order. And Han... Okay, we have to say something real quick

about Harrison Ford in this movie. Yeah, please. Which is that he's perfect. Oh, yes, perfect. So true. Han is Han is Scuzzball adjacent

It's incredible But like it is Like this is the most delicately balanced cocktail Of traits Because there's so many versions of it We're like This dude sucks

But he doesn't That like Han is Just sleazy enough But also just kind enough At every turn That like when he's negotiating hard with Obi-Wan

and he's in full like salesman mode and a little bit slimy but then you realize a moment later how hard up he is that like he doesn't really want to put the screws to this kid and the old man maybe this hard but he has no choice because he and he and Chewy are in deep shit

and he's got to get off this planet with a bag full of cash because he's running out of moves in this game And here again, he isn't just some cynic who's like, oh, I don't believe, I don't believe in anything greater than the self, right? That's not really what he's getting at. But it is that I don't subsume, I don't submit my individuality to anything. Right. And I don't buy this worldview.

And you shouldn't either, because the other thing is Han slips neatly into a, oh, you've never had a big brother. like you are incredibly sheltered and you seem sweet and you seem like we could be you seem like we would be really good friends and maybe even a fun person to like have aboard the ship but there's

I'm watching this guy like sell you a bill of goods and I'm telling you you'll have more fun the better life if you learn these lessons that I learned a long time ago which is that you kind of got to be looking out for yourself in this world

Totally. Yeah, it is, it is care for Luke that he says this stuff. It isn't just self-aggrandizement. It isn't just I know the world better. It's, listen, kid, like, take it from me. You're cool older brother. This guy's feeding you some bullshit. And what we have, of course, said before, and having watched this, I do still stick to it. You know, Obi-Wan is like, okay, time to use this kid. It's time to pull the Luke trigger. When you, okay, so when I talk about how I cry every time they lie about Padma's pregnancy for political gain, Obi-Wan saying, your father wanted you to have this weapon evokes the same exact, like, heartbreak. Like, I can't believe this is happening. What are you doing to this child thing? Like, that is such an insane lie. It is so crafted. It is so, like, just putting him on the fucking, like, the conductor that leads him into wielding that sword against the father you're talking about it's so sad

like it fucks me up so bad and like I yeah just the like I mean saying that Han Solo is perfect like Obi-1 is just as perfect here like Luke being perfect here we mentioned how sweet he is but like besides the like you don't have to call me Luke

and him sort of like laughing that on off like when C3PO is like, oh, just leave me here. I'm hurt or whatever. And Luke is just like, oh, no, why would you say that? Like, the moments where, like, you're supposed to think that, like, Luke is annoying and pathetic and, like, the, you know, the fandom comes away and, you know, the, like, sort of jokes around Star Wars of being like, oh, he's these whiny kid who's never left and he, you know, he shoots at rats. Like, that's something we've wielded against Luke forever and he's just like so sweet and so nice and so charismatic and like so willing to follow around on what people are telling him and then like seeing the character break with Obi-Wan

when Luke mentions Alderon and and the rebellion and everything like it's just it is very very well-crafted and performed and hey I was really quick hey we hit this we hit the line they said They said the words. They said, Your father's light saber, this is a weapon of the Jedi Knight, not as clumsy or random as a blaster, an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

For a thousand generations, thank you. For a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the Guardians of Peace and Justice in the Old Republic, before the dark times before the empire. And we were so cool. I actually talked to somebody. I'm not putting this person on blast,

but someone messaged me the other day about one of our conversations about the Stover novel. and our interest in the Jedi, Rob, you talked about the Jedi as chauvinists about civilization. And someone messaged me, like, no, that was just a callback to them saying a more civilized age. Like, they just think it's not that they like the civilizations. And I said, well, no, like, I think Stover knew what he was doing there. And more importantly, this person was like, oh, this initial, that initial line was like serious from Obi-Wan. And like, yeah, I actually do think that as written, it's supposed to be that Obi-Wan believes in the chivalric age of old.

We now know better. And that's kind of, I was just to underscore this for the listener, we're not serious when we call that a more civilized age. That's tongue and cheek. We do not think the era of the Clone Wars was more civilized than the original trilogy. There was always, the point is, whatever was past was always a more civilized age. It's like, Star Wars is shot through. People were like, I don't know, it was just not like it was, man. Not like it used to be.

Yeah, not like the good old days. Yoda hand ringing about like we just can't see that we can't talk to the force anymore. I don't know. A hundred percent. We're not like the Jedi of old could just like, the force would just like reach out and tell them what to do and they find their way. We lost that.

Lost the recipe. Which more civilized do you mean? Which which one? Do you mean the one where nihilus was eating up planets? Yum, yum, yum. Do you mean the one where the Mandalrians were colonizing the outer rim and the Jedi didn't stand up to do anything? Do you mean the one where Ola Keldroma had to be

separated from the force? Which one do you mean? We really got to know. Was it more civilized when Padme didn't know that her own aid didn't have full of running electricity or water? Exactly. Yeah. And so on and so on. So. Well, this is, but this is one of the other things is like there are parts of this that still match up. Like the notion that there's a long plot of like Luke is a weapon that's been hidden in the desert waiting for its moment. and you can read that into Owen knowing on some level

that the second somebody mentions Obi-Wan Kenobi it's a clock has moved a minute to midnight because the second you hear that name that means the Jedi are about to show up at your door looking for Luke and he knows this is lurking out there which is why there's that hostility

he doesn't he gives the game away who he's like that wizard is crazy while you're calling him a wizard, it seems like the thing that is not in doubt is that he is a man with like weird uncanny abilities who sort of lived on the margins of tattooing society for Luke's entire life. But like that he has powers does not seem to be in doubt.

Owen just hates him for some reason. Why? He seems like a really nice guy when we meet him. And it is because he's going to tell Luke, come with me, come with me, come, come find this destiny. And Owen doesn't believe in that destiny. And it totally, it totally lines up with the instrumentalization of Luke Skywalker. They sort of planted this kid like a, you know, like in the back pocket.

This is how we're going to regain the ground we lost. And that is easy to interpret that like Owen has been nervous about this exact day when someone would say like, Luke, you need to go find Obi-Wan Kenobi. That is going to be how this shit starts. And it is there in Al-Ginnis's performance when he runs into Luke and Luke says, oh, I'm looking for, looking for Obi-Wan Kenobi. And Al-Ginnis has this look that is just like, oh, it's here. Yeah, it's time.

And he knows it's his death. Yeah, totally. That all of it is just, you didn't know how or when the moment would arrive, but you know it has. Yeah. And we'll get to that part. He knows it's his death in a moment in a little bit. Yeah. Well, learn about the Force Luke we get.

And then we do get the, Rob, you're talking about the Leia talking to Tarkinsene with her putting on the Imperial British accent. Watching at this time, I'm now convinced more than ever that it's intentional and she's being a brat and or she's code switching in order to match the imperial dialect here. Because when they do blow up Alderon, she screams and is just in her regular voice again. And it's just like, no, you know, how could you? I think it's really good. Well, again, like, Tarkin is not, he gets played so easily.

And also, this is a, if he's trying to see information, he's escalating too fast, right? Like, this is a, he thinks he can just speed run this information that doesn't occur to him that, like, well, once you. blow up the planet and now she really has no one's sudden to tell you anything like that and the degree to which he see like again Vader almost has a more cautionary note throughout a lot of this another thing you would read into this at what point does Vader start to feel an odd like an odd connection because he stands behind Leah in the moment that they're destroying alderan and puts his hand on her shoulder and it is not a menacing gesture.

It might be controlling, but in terms of where the menace is, it's all Tarkin, right? Grabbing her, grabbing her face and, like, squeezing her cheeks, like, talking about how he didn't like to sign her execution order. And, like, Vader is silent throughout all this. Vader's not being threatening. He's just a silent presence. And I think you can go and look at a lot of this movie as, like, all the key moments where it feels like Vader could really clench this

he's just a little slower on the draw than he ever is with anyone else in this movie Strangles the Rebel Captain without a second thought when it comes to the dog fight above the Death Star I gotta get these knobs and switches adjusted on my flight stick before I can pull the trigger

Yeah he's real like bring her to me a line Oh shit that's our two. Whoops I winged him Yeah But you read He'll be fine. Yeah, you can really read things in.

Except for the parts where then you can't read things in because Luke has never been hornier for anyone than Leah in this movie. He is down catastrophic the second he sees her. She's beautiful. Like, okay, dude, I can't. We can't go down this road. I'm sorry that this movie, end of the next movie is actually, my friend. They were like, and Mark, so in this shot, you're looking at picture.

and now the girl's bending over and putting the disc in the drive on the droid. So you're gonna have a view of her of her rear end. So just like really lock in on that. And Mark Hamill gets that assignment. Like it is like it is it has never occurred to game. Play that again? Yeah, hang on. Bring her back.

Do you want her back? I need her message. I need to hear the whole message. Did she leave her digits in this? Can I call her back? I mean, can you send a message? her. And then when we see her locked up later and then he sees her in the cell. Which by the way, with her full face of makeup on,

they're letting her keep after the probe droid is through with her. That's all I'm saying. You know? This was a lot. This was a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they didn't know. They didn't know. I was like, it's the biggest evidence that he didn't have a fucking clue. That's why we're going to read Splend to a Mind's eye. We're going to have to, aren't we?

At some point. I mean, you can't... Go ahead. No, Splare the Mind's Eye is so funny, because that's the one that comes out before Empire. Like, they write an EU novel before the rest of the series is written. And so Splare of the Mind's Eye is like,

almost, like, maybe the moment's arrived. The thing is that if this movie, suffers from anything and I you know suffer in quotes I guess I'm not fully committing to it being suffering but

Leah has to be so hot and like so attractive all the time literally has to be like you know very like visually

like not even in pose but just in presentation sexy all the time there's like you've heard it before Carrie Fisher was you know not allowed to wear a bra

with this costume like the the the raw titty was a part of the vision that George Lucas had for Princess Leah and you know it's it has

an effect like you are Like, she is meant to be this, like, she's the only female figure in this movie outside of Aunt Peru. Who's not exactly, and, you know, I'm not speaking for any of the, you know, beings in the canteen. I, you know, I haven't met them. I don't know them. So. Yeah. You're saying beings like we learned from Stantonica sisters are bringing it.

IMO, but. Okay. Sure, sure, sure. Right, right, naturally, naturally. Yes, there are some other, you know. But with that here, it just makes the kind of ambiguity. And did Lucas know, did he not? He obviously didn't.

But like if we're playing into that question, it makes it so much harder to contend with because she's just presented in such, you know, when she's waking up from the scene that Austin's just describing in the prison cell, to Luke, you know, walking in on her. She's like posed like, what's her name in the Titanic and like Rose in the Titanic? Like, draw me like one of your French girls. It's so, like, that is the effect. That's the intended effect.

And that is the effect that the audience has. And like, I love Carrie Fisher. I'm not even necessarily like mad at it. But I just think it's, it gets a little silly to try and do the argument that like, no, no, this was all kind of, you know, a part of the plan. It's like, it's okay. You could just say that you, you know, wanted to take things in a different direction. And it's important because, like, she and Luke, she and Mark Hamill do not have any chemistry. She and...

Zero. Harrison Ford. I mean, you know. There's the scene in the garbage compactor, the trash compactor, where he's kind of like trying to lift her up to just like be higher up. And they're just like little excuses for the two of them to be touching each other all the time. There's like an immediate physical like closeness and proximity between the two of them in a way that actually functions between the two of them. And they're bickering in the way that they will immediately continue to bicker into Empire Strikes Back, which we'll talk about next time. And like all of that, I think, you know, the farm boy crush that Luke has here is.

You know, it's it's not that dissimilar from his dreams of going to fly a spaceship. He wants to go meet a girl, you know, and they may as well be two alien things in his life. She's as far away as possible from him. Like, the fact that they don't have chemistry, I think works well for this because she is just like, when he, when it's ironic when he's sitting in the cockpit with Hans Solo. and Han clocks that, you know, Luke has a thing for Princess Leia and he's saying like, oh, she's so beautiful, like, love the princess, blah, blah, blah.

And Luke asks him, like, what do you think of Princess Leia? What do you think of her? And he's like, I don't, you know, he's totally blowing her off. Like, I try not to. And then he notices that Luke is satisfied with that answer, that, you know,

gives him the opening. for his potential, you know, budding relationship with her. And then he just goes, you know, but, you know, you think a princess and a guy like me could ever work out. And Luke's immediately like, no way. It's like, actually, that guy is so much closer to her than you will ever get. Like, you know. Those little cheek switches, it's over, bro.

It helps that You know I think Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford are Great actors I love watching them on the screen I love them in these movies I love them in other movies You know

Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher's Offscreen Romance I think is also Probably doing a lot of work here She wrote a lot about it In her book The Princess Diaries where she Like uncovered a lot of her journals that she wrote at that time

and kind of like narrate, publishes them and adds commentary to some of the things that she was saying. And it wasn't necessarily the greatest relationship in a lot of regards. But it adds, it adds color to,

you know, kind of what's going on on the screen between the two of them. For sure. Two other things that, like, by the middle of this movie, it's probably pretty clear. when I shout them out, we don't have to stick with them long.

The sound design and the music in this movie are un-fucking believable. They are truly unful-fuck-witable. Like, there's nothing like it. Every time the sound effect that is the reactor powering down or powering up that goes, do... I'm like, ooh, that hit. It's so good.

Yeah, there's a lot to be said about that stuff. Maybe if we end up doing some behind-the-scenes stuff, later, we can come back to it. Yeah, just last thing about like Moss Isley Cantina, I just, I do love as well the, uh, I guess it's, it's, in the same vein as like Han just like lighting Grito up. Obi-Wan trying briefly to de-escalate with those guys,

let me buy you a drink and then going straight to Samurai movie. Okay, I guess you didn't take the off-ramp I offered now you don't have a fucking arm. Yeah. Like instantaneously. None of this, none of this cauterization shit that the lightsabers go on to do later.

He cut that guy's arm off and it bled on the ground. Yeah, no, it's a body horror moment. Like, the guy's screaming his buddy is like helping him and everyone, you know, the bar sort of like takes notice of it and then it goes back to business as usual. But like, again, the things that's drawing from,

It's closer at this point. Star Wars is closer at that point to things like Zatuichi, the Blind Swordsman, and things like this, where there's just a baseline comfort with violence that later gets, or more than that, ruthless violence, that even the good guys can still be ruthless. Like there's kind of a, oh, if, if you make Obi-Wan, like, draw this blade, like, it's too, that's not a threat, right? Like, him try and de-escalates the last chance you get. And I think as the series goes on, as Star Wars is built upon, you start trying to make it clear that in every case it's like, well, no, it's, there's no cruelty to it, right? That, like, well, the Jedi would never just roll up on someone and chop them down.

They would do that to a droid, obviously, but like a battle droid. But they wouldn't just, like, do that to some rando in a bar. Obi-Wan would. And Obi-Wan also has that desperation, right? That, like, this is, like, he doesn't have time. They don't, like, they are now being hunted. And so there's also that element of, you know, he's on a mission. He's on a very, like, short time frame.

and this guy's got in his way. Yeah. He's being hunted by a weird alien all in black with a long ass nose. Yeah, with a plague doctor, basically, which is wild. But yeah, Rob, that has a lot to do, I think, with the samurai films, for sure, that Lucas loves. It also has a lot to do with the filmic, you know, adventure serials that we've talked about. But also with, like, the kind of sort and sorcery genre, the kind of early fantasy stuff,

we are not yet at, this is 77, and so I'd say like the Tolkienalia has, Tolkien has hit in literature, but you, the sort of solidification of what a fantasy novel is is still happening. And just as much in the mix are things like Conan the Barbarian or Vance's dying Earth. There's a lot of like amoral protagonists and a lot of like ruthless violence in those worlds. And to the degree that Star Wars is science fantasy as much as it's science fiction, you know, it's space opera. I don't know that it's super useful to dig into like, is it science fiction or science fantasy? I think that there's something really enjoyable about those conversations when you have them at 20 years old and at 40 I'm very tired by them.

And I'm much more interested in like how the market defines a genre and how that can like push and shape them than I am like pretending like they're like a universal true. a, you know, above historical thing. They're like, they're very arrived at by very earthly economic reasons. They're not like true things. But I do think that tying it to like that sort of like,

sort and sorcery or sword and sandals style fiction, it makes a lot of sense because a lot of that sort of like sudden violence is all over that stuff. And a lot of that stuff would show up not just in the kind of big fantasy epics, but also, like fantasy adventure serials, but also in the sort of historical epics, right? The sort of violence that shows up in the sword and sandals stories that are all over Hollywood in the golden era of Hollywood are also filled with like bad guys and good guys needing to like take a sudden violent turn in the middle of a scene that otherwise was just people talking at each other in mid-Atlantic accents, you know. And I think that some of that shows up here. And it utilizes Alec Guinness well to that end, right?

Like he comes across in that scene as someone who has been around and who is not afraid of escalating to end something quickly, which communicates something about him that I think gets sanded down a lot as we move on. Obi-1-Kadobie the Clone Wars would never do this. And it's interesting that by now he would, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think someone can be explained by the desperation, like the, but some of it is also at this point, he's much closer to those movies you're discussing. And also Star Wars is closer being a Western. This is a bar in Western. And like, you know, the, the, the guy's playing the slightly out of tune piano. And then suddenly like an argument, like someone just pulls out of a six shooter and drill someone. That's it. And that's, that's how it goes. And that is also the tradition that this is operating in is that, like, killing if you were going to say

in the genres in which this movie occupies people get killed for all sorts of reasons. Good ones, bad ones, meaningless ones, it just happens. And so it doesn't really carry the same moral weight as and I think maybe that's part of it, right? Like in the world Han and habits

a dude like Rita is going to shoot you. You got to shoot him first. Like, and not give him a chance to actually do what he wants to do. And that doesn't make you like a killer necessarily. It's just the world you inhabit is like people are trying to kill each other all the time.

Survival requires like defending yourself lethally. And then years and years later, Lucas comes back to this moment. It's like, I don't know. The Moss Lise of the canteen is too rough. You can't have good guys doing this kind of stuff. Yeah. And then again, here's the other thing with the, I think, the pacing and the structure of the story just being so good.

The way that they escape Tatouine, we get the sort of training scenes, we get Alderan blowing up, and we get them arriving at Alderan. The sort of natural arc for both the Death Star and the Millennium Falcon to arrive at Alderan around the same time, you know, the Falcon lands,

or shows up just after it's been blown up, just after Obi-Wans had to sit down because he has felt the destruction and the deaths of millions. And then like, oh yeah, then we just, we tracked to being the men to the Death Star. That's it. That's how we get to the next act of this movie. It's just so crisp. Like, and I think part of the secret juice of having the force is, of course, does it seem a little

convenient to you? Yeah, that's the force, you know? Oh, did it seem convenient to you that, that C3BO and R2D2 landed at the foot of Luke Skywalker, who at this point is not Anakin, not Vader's child, but like, is our hero and he's the right guy for the job. Yeah, that's the force. The force pulls people together. And we get, we get our first, like, instance of that being literally true as Vader senses Obi-Wan aboard the Falcon after it has been pulled in through the tractor beam into the, into the Death Star. I just, like, really just want to underscore how crisp that is. If I was telling the story and I was like, I have my heroes, our protagonists are on Tattooine, and somehow we have to get them, we need them to figure out how to get, we have to get them

hooked up with Leah because she's our other protagonists. How do we get them all in the same place? Because she's all the way over here in the Death Star. And just be like, oh, they have to get to Alderan. The Death Star blows up Alderan because she's from Alderan. And then it just grabs them. It's so smooth and simple. I've seen so many other stories, including other Star Wars stories,

struggle at how to get its protagonists in the same place like this. And it gets really clunky and bad. I think a lot of the sequel movies end up having stuff like this. It just feels tortured and just works here. Well, maybe the one, yep, go ahead. Well, I was just going to note, it's coming on 11 p.m. here. It sure is. And as the prophecy foretold, we're two and a half hours in.

They just arrived at the death star. They did. We're halfway through the movie. Should we call it here and wrap up Star Wars? Because I don't think, I don't want to stay up to one podcasting. I'm, you know, I think we could probably wrap it in an hour and a half, but I don't think we can do it in 30 minutes or 40 minutes. I think two hours on Star Wars would be really funny.

Or two episodes on Star Wars would be really funny. Yeah. Let's do it. All right. So yeah, so we will leave things here. Just imagine the Millennium Falcon as I'll just say this. What a great shot, right? Oh, my God.

Like the scale of because the model doesn't always sell you the scale, but then that shot of the Falcon as it is not quite coming into the bay, but it is approaching before it comes through, you get the head-on shot of the Falcon being pulled into the docking bay. But before that, as it moves into the shadow of the Death Star, and you see the Millennium Falcon, you know how big that is, and then you see how big the space station is, and then there's the final shot of it approaching the hangar door

with the gun battery next to it, and now you truly understand the scale of this thing. Right? Yeah. Like, so good. What a moment to bring to life just the sheer enormity of this, of the space station. It's awesome.

Can't wait to see what happened in there. Almost rivals. Yeah, almost rivals the enormity of this podcast length. Almost. Yeah. Five star Khyber reactor. What's that? I don't know what a couple.

Iber is. I don't know. I've never heard of it. I've never heard of that before. The fact that he just is like, here's the lightsaber is wild. Again, Ali,

as you were saying, it's evil, but it's also wild when we know the like, now with our perspective, what a Jedi has to do to get a lightsaber

and like what the whole, you know, oh, by the way, here's your dad's lightsaber. He's to go to a temple and do trials. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, one of 20 minutes, the other half of it.

Yeah, which one? Did you recover this one from? And next time, we'll get to talk about Obi-Wan and Vader seeing each other for the first time since they saw each other on that weird moon in Obi-Wan-Kan-Kinobi. We'll talk next time. We'll talk next time. Thank you for listening to War Sublime's show. Okay, time out.

Because if you haven't listened to us, talk about the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, now is the time to go listen to those Patreon episodes or episode. I don't remember if it was one episode or two episodes. you have to go listen to it. I'm telling you, $5.000. Patreon.com slash Civilized. You have to go listen to us talk about that show so that you will have context

for why we're frustrated because of how good what's about to happen in this movie is. Yes. That's Rueleanda. I think that's a pitch. Patreon.com slash civilized. Go get it.

Go listen. You don't even necessarily need to see the Obi-Wan show. I think you should be for many reasons. You just need to hear how we ended up feeling about how all that went down. But I do think this is like Dickens at the start of a Christmas Carol. Like, you have to understand what we said about what we want, or else nothing that's about to happen will make sense. Go visit the ghosts of AMCA past.

That's right. And Wedgentillies, who did not die. But was recast.