A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 129: Star Wars (4k77 Version) Pt. 2

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

We return with the back half of a little movie called Star Wars. We can finally talk about some of the most foundational moments in the franchise. The very first lightsaber duel--and its relationship to a little tv show called Obi-Wan Kenobi. The series' three protagonists finally sharing screen time. The Death Star trench run and its relationship to the Force and Technology. But we also get to talk about some of the stuff that gets lost along the way. Like about just how funny Star Wars has always been. How the Empire is already a bit of a send-up of bureaucrat sci-fi baddies. And how whether Lucas knew the particularities of their history or not, Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi show up with enough ambiguity and depth to carry years and years of storytelling to come. Show Notes George Lucas: The Wizard of 'Star Wars' | Rolling Stone REBEL SCANNERS: Preserving Star Wars (with Rob of TEAM NEGATIVE 1) Hosted by Rob Zacny (robzacny.bsky.social) Featuring Alicia Acampora (ali-online.bsky.social), Austin Walker (austinwalker.bsky.social), and Natalie Watson (nataliewatson.bsky.social) Produced by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt (notquitereal.bsky.social Cover art by Xeecee (xeecee.bsky.social)

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Star Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zachary, joined by Aliaqinpora, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. We are, as always supported by you, our listeners, via patreon.com slash civilized. So head over there if you'd like to support the show and get access to all our Q&A episodes and various other special editions. So today we pick up right where we left off and made it halfway through Star Wars and New Hope. the boys were just getting sucked into the space station and pulled into the Imperial Docking Bay

and over the course of this episode we're going to see their daring escape and then a big space battle I don't think we did the recap last time you know what it is you know what it is you've seen this movie yeah we don't need to go through a whole recap again but we will need one for Empire next time Rob

so yeah Okay, it's making sure. Yeah, it's fun. I do love that Han is like, what if we bitch Cassidy this situation? They're bored the death star and he's like, they're not taking me alive. He's ready to do the like gangster made it mock top of the world send off. And Kenobi, again, the whole, the strong vibe of just being too. too old for this shit, without ever saying

I'm too old for this shit, talking him off the ledge, like, hey, what, you know what? What if we didn't do suicide by cop? Instead, here's a thought, this is smuggling ship. I don't know, maybe we can work with something

in that, like us, smuggling departments. I don't know, I'm just spitballing, but maybe something there. I love that it has never occurred to Han to use his smuggling compartments for himself. Oh, that's true.

The fact that he's like, I never thought I would be in here. You know, I've been smuggling a long time and never thought I'd have to use one of these. I was like, shouldn't that be like plan B all the time? Like, it's always on the docket? Here's the thing. I think that line, well, maybe I'm interpreting it too darkly. If Han is too comfortable with throwing people into the smuggling compartments, We wonder what else he might have been smuggling.

If his first instinct is, oh, we can just, hey, my smuggling apartments can fit like 20 people down there. Alarming. Now we're doing season two of the wire. But the thing is, they are shielded from bioscans or whatever. They scan the ship and there are no, there's no living organisms on side. So he did buy the upgrade to have the sorts of smuggling compartments that did have. hide them from any sort of scans, right?

That's just because he's selling exotic pets to keep in as well. You know, like, and let's be real. When we meet Han and he's like in Hock to Jabba and all that, you know this dude has had like a holdful of invasive species. For sure. That he's like carted around the people's estates and shit.

Also, I might be wrong actually because I'm thinking about it now. It's not that they, it's that they just walked through and they only found the droids, right? Because then Vader is, is like, no, wait a second. No, wait a second. I'm feeling something. I'm feeling something I haven't felt since that time.

Someone threw a bunch of rocks at me on the unnamed moon of Jubeem back during the Obi-Wan Kenobi show. That's what he says in his brain. You can't hear it. But, you know, George definitely scripted that one out forever ago, for sure. Right, right, right. I love his huffy spin and twirl. Before we get too far away from the smuggling compartments, I just think that somebody should have shared the Millennium Falcon, like, ad with, was it Quinlan Voss that was overseeing the Jedi protection racket?

Or was it Plowcun back in, um, the Jedi protection racket? Remember, in, in Ackleite that, uh, wasn't it Ackleite? Was it Ackleite? Wait, I don't think it was Acolyte. What's, or was it, um, or was it, um, It's Obi-Wan. You're thinking about the Obi-W-W-W? I think it's Obi-W-W-W-W-W-H show.

The whatever path, right? Like the- Yes, yes, exactly. That's what I'm thinking of the path. The brilliant path, the something path. Oh, the shining path, the name with no resonances. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah, somebody should have told them about this,

because that would have been really useful, I think, for him in his endeavors. Yeah, to help keep Jedi safe. Exactly. But he's aggressive. Sensitive. Hidden path. I found it. It's hidden path. It was hidden path. We of course all remember the hidden path gestured broadly at, but never really integrated into the storytelling of anything. Was that an actual plot line? Or was that like the joke of the scammer guy who ended up being It was real.

It was real. It was real. Okay. So the thing is you learn about it in, of course, maybe this isn't where it starts. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I first learned about it in the Jedi, one of the Jedi games, because your mentor, Sear is part of it. And then it shows up in Obi-Wan Kenobi with like a drawing on the wall, and it says like Quinlan was here. And someone goes, yeah, he's with the hidden path. He's been helping Jedi get to blah, blah, blah, or whatever.

He's like, in there's like that whole safe house scene with a throwaway character who doesn't show up again. Maybe she shows up again. I don't remember. It's helping Jedi get to other places where they get arrested and booked. I see the people everywhere. It's the problem. Like the one issue with the like Jedi Underground Railroad metaphor is as far as I can tell, there's no Canada in Star Wars. I guess you can go to Hotspace, but I feel like that is a frying pan fire situation. Yeah. Ever there was one. It's like the Hots are going to be like, oh, fuck, yeah. A bunch of Jedi are getting in here. Admittedly, Jedi do have a policy of, like, leaving Hut affairs alone.

It's in the Huts space. Yeah. But never the rest. I believe the Huts have an extradition treaty with specifically Jedi, for Jedi, specifically with the Empire. That feels like a real simple way to, like, keep them off your back for a little while, you know? For sure. Not for other things. Not for smugglers.

You know what I mean? It's like a Jedi specific thing. I would believe that. in a second. So. None of that exists, though. All that exists is our bad guy, Darth Vader, remembers Obi-Wan Kenobi and senses him, which is sick.

Like, again, if you're watching this movie with the first time, the fact that, you know, previously the last thing that we saw was Obi-Wan could sense all the deaths of Alderan. But now here is Vader being like, I sense this one particular guy. Well, and, like, with VALDAQaeda. Vader, in retrospect now, we know where all this is going to go and all that has been.

It is the first moment where Vader begins keeping his own counsel. Yeah. Until this moment, he's been very, he's explained his reasoning to just imperial line officers. He has sort of spoken up at the meeting and

argued with like imperial brass and all this. This is the first time where something occurs to him and he starts to articulate it. and then he shuts up and storms away and doesn't tell anyone fully what he is thinking. Now we do see him go and he goes and tracks down Tarkham, and he explains that he has an idea, which again does sort of underscore the degree to which I remember I gave the Clone Wars cartoon a lot of shit for Tarkin being kind of a dip shit whose big

idea is like, I like big structures. We should build big structures. And I was like, I don't know, like what is this supposed to be? One of the intellectual... Give yourself credit. That's not the thing you gave him shit for. I mean, he didn't, it was a little bit of that because he liked how the Citadel was built. You gave him shit for

being the guy who said, the reason we haven't beaten the separatist yet is we're holding ourselves back. We're not doing an immoral war. We're doing, we're trying to fight a moral war and that's bad. And you're like, really, dude? So give yourself credit. I do think that you had a good line of criticism on that guy. No, again, to your point, he does seem like kind of a dumbass here, too.

Yeah, and that's the thing. I think it is so easy, and I think Cushing's very knowing about this. He plays him as a very posh, like, you know, calculating, aristocratic type figure, but he is also profoundly unsubtle and lacking an insight. And it, like, I had just fully not connected the degree to which every good idea here is Vader's. Like, Vader is the one who figures out how they're going to use this situation to work their way back to the rebel base. Tarkin's big idea was to take the biggest hostage imaginable, after which there's no more bargaining leverage. You shoot this hostage. You can never bargain with Princess Leia again.

Like, that's it. There's one round. There's one round of negotiation. in this prisoner's dilemma and he's like I lied blows up Alderan and he's like

well I got no ideas I'm I'll be honest I don't is your mom from a different planet do you have anyone like cousins maybe

some like let me know anyone else really important to you do you go on a good vacation somewhere where else do you where was your first date just show me your camera roll

let me see your camera roll Let me see it. And then, like, I'll beat this into the Imperial search icon of the archive. In 12 days, they'll be able to do one image search to find where planet it is. You have location sharing on for it with anybody? Just anybody. You know, is there anybody an axe? You know, what do you got?

You never turn it off? That is his big idea. And after that, he's got Bobkiss. He has nothing. And so, like, I think it is because Vader seems like such a hulking brute force character, the choking, the rag-dolling people around, through, particularly through Empire.

But Empire, he is going mad with, like, need to figure out like he saw his son, right? Empire, it's a different, like, this is Vader, having an obsession that is at odds. Let's see, let's do our, we'll do our Vader in empire analysis. Maybe they extend this in surprising ways. We haven't, what's the time you saw Empire? Yeah, exactly.

It's been, it's been a myth. But at least here, like, Vader, is the one who's shown to have a degree of like subtlety and like trickery that is utterly absent in Tarkin and that continues to to to the end but but the entire the entire fact that like everything happens to board the death star is to a degree oh to to a degree it's a put on it's a con job is vader's idea that's funny because you know I think we are poisoned by the knowledge of like, oh, yeah, it's Anakin in there. He's become mostly robotic.

And obviously, they're playing with the robotic stuff here. Immediately he looks like more machine than man. Like, it's very clear that that's like part of who he is. But he is the wizard. He is the dark sorcerer to Obi-Wan's hermetic wizard. And so he has to be tricky. He has to be clever. And he has to be, you know, kind of,

working for himself in some ways. He does have to start keeping secrets. That's part of what that archetype is, right? We're just not used to seeing viziers who can hoop. That's right. And he can hoop. He's the vizier who's going to outlast the current governor, you know, or the current dynasty and move on to whatever the next one is.

Or at least that's how he appears here. Again, you cannot overstate the importance of the emperor not being in this movie. He's just, what's the empire like? What's the emperor who? You know, we know that local governors rule stuff, but we don't have, there is no cackling Palpatine here. There is no manipulation. There is none of that stuff. And so, like, we really just get Vader as the stand in for the one part of the empire that is, you know, magical and deceitful and clever and all of that.

It's striking how close this is in a lot of ways to season one and or, right? The ISB vision. Yeah, sure. It is the fact that it's a giant dude in a robotic suit that is the weird part. But like Vader, this Vader would fit right in alongside Partagaz and the other like piranhas in that tank. He is in a weird way, creature of the bureaucracy and also a golem ready to be turned loose on the enemies of the emperor. He probably put, he probably helped Yul Aaron get there, you know, after all the Clone Wars shit. Because Yalarin is in the ISB White, right?

Yep. Which, again, isn't that yet. But, you know, it's striking. It's different. He doesn't wear all the same stuff. It's also fascinating to the absence of what the absence of the emperor offers here is a lot to the viewers' imagination in terms of like how much, how localized is this contingent? Like how big of a slice of the empire is Darth Vader and Tarkin and the Death Star and this threat? And also Princess Leia and the resistance.

Like how big of a slice of the galaxy is that without having the emperor there? It's hard. We just have the freedom to imagine like are there other death stars being, you know, are there other fronts? where experimental weaponry is being developed. Are there other resistances? Is this like, is this it? Is it this or nothing? And obviously that becomes solidified in Empire Strikes Back and beyond.

But being here where it's like the characters here are detached from, you know, being directly representative of and obviously representative of a larger thing. And instead it feels like we have like the farm boy from Tatouin. We have the princess from Alderon. We have like the dark wizard, the light wizard. There's just like an abstraction to it all that adds this ambiguity of how big, how big is this? How much is this going to determine everything?

or are there other fronts out there that we aren't privy to? Yeah, how many planets exist in this movie, like in the world of this movie? Because we know Tatooine, we know Alderon, we know the Death Star exists, we know Yavinfor. It was cut, but, and listen, I got it wrong. He doesn't say Bestbin. Biggs apparently says Best teen. I thought he was saying Best Pene, but he says Best teen, so he didn't get the cape from Lando. everyone can stop messaging me and telling me he didn't get the cape from Lando.

That's fine. But that's another planet. But it's like, are there 20 planets in the empire? Are there 100? Are there a thousand? We've no idea what the scale is. But we do know that someone very high up in the power structure or seemingly high up in Tarkin thinks that the Death Star is powerful enough to like basically lock the whole thing down.

That's his plan. And it's enough of a successful plan or it's conceivable enough that they've gone forward with that plan. The power to destroy a single planet matters a lot in the vision of the empire, whether or not it's a plan that would have worked out or not, who knows, but it was convincing enough to pour, you know, resources into creating it, et cetera. Also, I'm going to clarify again, they go in, they, they don't scan the ship ever. They walk through the ship. And then Vader is like, get some scanners in here, which again says something about the type of science fiction it is. They don't have.

Star Trek style, scan the ship for life signs. They'd go get a team with a huge. Yeah, they have to go get a team with a dedicated like scanner device to come walk the hallways and scan it. And that to me is good. That to me is very, that's like Star Wars to me, which allows them to do the thing of, you know, clonking some some star troopers on the head and putting on the, putting on their uniforms and putting chewy in fake handker, like, you know, not really putting him in handcuffs

and guiding him through the hallway and then into the control room. and you can bash some people in the heads, you know? And also, wow, this place looks cool as hell. The control room with all the blacks and red, like all the consoles, looks so crisp. Control room good. And I feel like that aesthetic actually gets a little bit lost after this movie. Yeah.

Because so much of later, like, what do Imperial, like, stations look like, becomes the darkness of the Star Destroyer Bridge in Empire Strikes Back or the Emperor's throne room. And we get away from this bold primary colors, gloss surfaces, vision of the Empire. Like, the Death Star to some degree is doing Star Trek stuff. The Empire also likes that aesthetic. The smoothness. Yeah.

surfaces. And then, you know, and then for places like the boardroom, yeah, there you have the darkened mood lighting and the big impressive table. But for a space that's just like a tower control at the stocking bay. Yeah. That is just a, that is just a big, like plastic, you know, lozenge is kind of what they put you in. it's a great contrast with the Falcons like hyper-grebelled, messy interiors and exterior. And then it's, it is also a great contrast with like the Death Star like Canon Operation Room,

which is super dark, right? Like even the Death Star has all of these different types of spaces, which is just really strong. It's easy to forget how much different visual design language is being used here. It's really coherent. It does feel like a place. but of course the control room is going to feel different than the prison cells, you know? It's so funny. Everything, I guess because we return to Star Wars so often, but even then, it's a movie that is so easy to forget how short it is and how little characters spend time with each other.

This is the last moment Luke and Obi-Wan are together. This is it. This is their farewell forever outside of last. like force conversations, but this is, this is the last time he's going to be talking to his mentor. And it just, like, it sort of hit me when I was watching this, like, oh, damn, that's already over. Like, the entire, like, his first teacher is, that, that phase is done. We are, that is a wrap. But they do a job of selling you on the idea that they forge this, like, deeper connection and that it's hugely important to, to Luke, the, has.

this bond with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan has never raised the death flag higher. Your destiny lies along a different path than mine. The force will be with you, always. Hey, man, are you okay? It sounds like you have some other stuff going on. Yeah, you're just going to go and find the switch to flip so that the tractor beam is turned off, right?

You have some other business here? He's doing the Padmebebe meme now. Yeah, exactly. I'll take you back on the Falcon, right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure, Luke. After the tractor beam, right? Right?

Yeah. I mean, when you're going to see your ex-bestie for the first time, you really do not know what is good. Like, that might be it for you. You never know. Yeah. Like the most relatable part of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader meeting again is what it feels like to know that you're about to see your ex-bestie again for the first time. like a hundred years. It is fucking.

It's the force is with them and maybe with you hopefully. And who knows what's going to go down. But you sense them and you need to go see them. And it needs to just be you. You don't want anyone else there. Yeah. One on one. Let's hash it out.

May not both make it out alive. Who knows? Speaking of besties real quick. Shoutouts to R2D2 for. There are things in this movie that again, seem super commonplace to us now. But like R2D2 hacks the, the Death Star to get like the map.

And I'm not saying that's like the first time that's happened in science fiction. But it's so like, oh yeah, he's going to plug himself in. This is a thing a droid can do. A droid's not going to find where Leia is and relay that information. I think as a kid,

that's probably one of the first times I saw that concept in fiction. And it's like, it's not a big deal. Obi-Wan says to do it. C3BO explains what R2 is found. We get the map stuff. And it's just like, again, I'm really impressed by how crisp and well-paced a lot of this stuff is.

None of it needs to be overexplained. None of it needs to be, you know, there's not like a torturous first scene where at first they set up that R2 can do this. Yeah, like R2 used to be, yeah, there's some sort of narrative explanation for why R2 is so, so, so brilliant and efficient at at getting retrieving this information it's not like oh well R2 used to be a Death Star unit you'd never believe it but and that's why he has the access to be able to to you know get these these maps and codes and everything and control the the the garbage compactor yeah and hey Obi-Wan is the one who's like

he should plug in he can probably control this whole system from here maybe because he's known R2 for dozens of years and seen him do it before. He knows. Do you think Obi-Wan's a little bit afraid, though? Like, if you got real beef with an ex-besty, but they were still a bestie, and it can be, like, there's always a party. It's like, man, I miss a hanging, though. Like, we're real odds, but, like, I do miss the hanging.

Do you think Obi-Wan's a little apprehend? that he's like time to face justice for what you've done anakin time to time to meet consequences and like what if vader's like obi won bring it in how you been how sate oh right sorry Beef back immediately Reactivated immediately Am I the only one who like Thinks that like Obe one was locked in to like

Sacrificially kill himself in front of like a teenager When he says like Yeah you're destined eyes elsewhere That's him being like I'm gonna go die now Yeah And I'm gonna make sure you see it so that you know what's good for avoidance of doubt

maybe he thinks he can beat Vader but then once he sees Luke show up he's like a ha ha ha he gets a little grin and he goes I can now be now I can execute the real plan or like the backup plan

oh no it's happening I'm doing it now because he doesn't it's like he does it right away you know maybe you're right maybe he's like holding him off we'll get there we're close first he used to run around

like a little like a little stealth game, avoiding stormtroopers and sneaking around the catwalks of impossibly deep abysses so that he can... I wouldn't have this control on my Death Star. I wouldn't have a place out in the middle of nowhere above an endless pit. Those video, like videos of people doing like antenna maintenance at those like thousand foot radio masks and shit. Yeah. Like I couldn't handle it. But even those videos, there's usually like a thing you can clip onto. Totally.

Empire believes in none of this. It's like, I mean, I guess it's a new build. They just finished construction. Maybe the safety for instance. Rails aren't in yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't look like they're, it doesn't look like waiting on rails. It is just, you got to creep out on this thing.

And that's where the big switch is. This, this totally inaccessible catwalk above. This is one of those, like, glass math. paintings right where where it's like it must be yeah those things build this set like this they did build a set with that much depth below and distance out and stuff presumably it's my favorite techniques that they use it's it's not just like a matte painting but like a like a glass plate uh with with an image like on it or or behind it to create like sort of a sense of depth but like that effects always looks so good there's so many there's so many great shots

in a lot of movies. That turns out like that is how they did it. Practical visual effects are the coolest things ever. It is literal movie magic. And I highly recommend people go look up movies like black narcissists, goaded, goaded mat painting movie. It's just really cool. I'm pretty sure they used it for those shots.

I like to think that that was Darth Vader's one job in the kutern. construction of the of the death star is that it was his job to force all the switches on or off. They have to call him every time

every time like one gets like the breaker gets flipped. Darth Vader has to come and you do not want to be the guy that blew the fucking reactor fuse and you got to go ask Darth Vader come flip the switch because you're getting forced choke, you're getting

killed. Oh, yeah, 100%. He'll do it. He'll do it, but you're dead. But also, he's never being made redundant. This has been a great inconvenience to me, you know, and then that's it. This place would fall apart without movie. Other thing happening during all of this is the big rescue.

Luke and Han and Chewy are going to rescue Leah. And it's just time for Han to get his shit off. It's just time for Han to be in comedy mode as he tries to fast talk the prison guards. And then he tries to fast talk. the other guards over the radio where he's like, there was a weapons malfunction and he's like slipped into like,

he's slipped into like white guy comedy voice. It's so funny. Where they pretend chewy he got loose and then they shoot out all the like surveillance cameras while trying to deal with, oh no, I missed again. Oh no.

This wookie is just out of control. It's so good. And then yeah, hi, how, we're all fine here. We're all good here. Yeah. Everything, everything's good. We're all fine. How are you?

Is the funniest little life? I don't think that had ever, like, hit as hard for me as it did on this rewatch. I was just like, he's so, he's so everything. He's so good. He's so funny. He's great. He's great. Boring conversation anyway, shoots the radio.

It's great. And then Luke finds Leia, who, as we talked about, looks like she's really been through it. Like just a brutal interrogation from the big, from the big kickball droid. Oh, yeah. Really brutal. She's she's lounging in a centerfold pose in like pristine seditorial white. I'm sorry. Full face and makeup.

That's how I lounge. That's how, that's how women be lounging, actually. It's just you are, that's like. the comfortable natural position. She is ahead of the curve, though, with, like, the clothes being a little bit loungeware. Mm. Like, this is the thing.

Like, she's a princess. She's like, no, I'm sorry. These are my formal. These are my formal comfy cozies. Yeah. Yeah. She's great, you know? She's like, oh, shit, Ben Kenobi's here.

Like, because she doesn't know who the fuck Luke is. Though Luke does go, I'm Luke Skywalker. And I'm here to rescue you. And she's like, I don't know who that is. I'm sorry to tell you, who are you? You know? And he's been Kenobi. And he's been Kenobi's here.

Oh, oh, okay. Yeah, let's go. Let's go. I'll go with you. That guy from a few years ago when I was briefly kidnapped after the least, the least dramatic pursuit across my home planet of Alderon. After flee from the red hot chili peppers tried to kidnap me. Oh, my God. The thought did occur to me, though, that, like, what did Leia expect Obi-Wan to do?

Is that clear? Am I? He was just going to take the plans to the rebellion. That's right. She was going to sacrifice herself. Yes. Yes. Okay.

And we are to assume that Obi-Wan, like, had that connection. Yeah, because she specifically, the message is you need to bring the Death Star plans to the Rebel base on all, or to, like, my connections on Alderan, basically. To dad. Yeah. To dad. to my dad. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yes. Obi-Wan's like flip phone than he has that he does not answer or use.

That's right. In situations like this. Yes. This whole thing is hanging by a thread, really. If we're being honest, because like, she's like, okay, I can't just say level base on Yava 4 in case this R2 unit gets kidnapped. But like, okay, just bring the base. It's not like we're on a clock here. We'll have time.

He can swing by Alderon, see my dad. My dad will be like you go to Yava 4. I think the timing on this will be this will work out and then Alderon's destroyed that's it there's no more trail like they don't find they don't find Leah they're cooked and and if Vader doesn't get arguably too cute by half like it is a good plan like he is the one who's like I figure out how to find the rebellion but also if he hears out how to bring the Death Star to the rebellion yeah if he had just killed these people here, then there's none of this stuff, because the

Death Start plans just don't get there. Really, it's, can R2 get to the rebels? That's the whole thing. At that point, it opens up all sorts of possibilities, but in this one brief moment, they should have found and killed R2D2. This is like, and they win the war. But this is sort of like when you're trying to carry like a load of plates or something to the kitchen, and you know you should take like two or three trips, but you can just start sort of fanning him out your arm and stacking

them. I feel like that's kind of what Vader's doing here. It's like we'll just figure out, we'll deal with this whole rebellion right now. Yeah. Death Star. Like, if we kill all these people, we can't, that we'll have to do so much more work. But we can just do one thing here. It'll all work out.

But yeah, so that is the plan, which the latest plan was, I'll just die here in imperial custody. The rebels get the plan. via my dad and you know the fight the fight continues instead they got to blast their way out of there and we get in short order lay a going mask off a little bit which is I find kind of fun when she when she's playing the the slightly preppy spoiled princess character with with Vader

I should have reckoned or or is it target she's like I should have recognized your foul stench Yeah. All that. But here, like 30 seconds of encountering this rescue, it's, oh, fuck this. Give me that gun. Yeah. Yeah, dude. She starts blasting.

Does she get a little racist? Yeah, she does. Okay? She doesn't. But, like, she keeps getting in her way. It's just one more thing that she does not want to deal with. Yeah. Yeah.

But then she blasts open the shoot. It's like jump in I wouldn't do it I which you know She's braver than me I would not go No No

We're not going in there Yeah There's got to be I would just have to ask like Is there another hole we can shoot Like that goes to the The Like the sauna

Or the Death Star Like yummy smell room Oh the yummy smell room Yeah yeah yeah Maybe like just one other whole so we have options. Yeah. We can split up.

If you want to go down the garbage shoot, that's cool. But I'll just meet up with you from the sauna and then we'll move forward from there. Yeah, yeah. I'll relax for a moment and, you know, regroup. And then we'll finish the rest of this. The garbage shoot doesn't go great at first. there's creatures

in the garbage in the garbage shoes and Han is just shooting the damn garbage shoe and the bolt is bouncing around all scary that was really scary

and I would have asked to hold Han's gun for the rest of that encounter if I didn't know him not to before he does it right

they know what's they know what's gonna happen or at least someone does yeah Luke's like I already tried I already almost killed us like five minutes ago

if you're like these guys are going to fucking kill me. These two dumbasses will not stop shooting. Chewy's like bodies against the wall on the door trying to just like brace himself

get out. Poor Chewy. It's, you know, it's going great down there. Chewy's down there, Chooie don't got no clothes on. He's getting his fur. And his fur is getting smelly. Yeah, his fur is getting smelly. It's getting into him.

It really depends what kind of dog that chewy is. Like, I don't know. Like, is, is he like a, like, are, because I imagine it varies from wiki to wookie a little bit, like, like, from dog dog. Like, I bet you some of them are like, oh my God, no, it's wet. I just had my blow out. Like, absolutely not.

But I'll bet some, I'll bet some wukies are like, roll around in it. Yeah. We're like, ooh, what's going? Oh, that is foul. Hang on. Check this out. Rich, rich, rich. Well, that's why I feel especially bad for Chewbacca because

he resists going into the hole the most, and Han has to be like, no, no, no, no, just do it. But he, like, is there, like, a heightened sense of smell situation here where, like, Chewy's the oldy one. Oh, which is the creature. Particularly, he smells the danger.

Yeah. Beyond the funk, I think he's like, no, no, no, no, no. Because I because I think Chewy knows the score. Right? Like we got to get out of here. We're not going out the front door. We do have to make our escape. He's balking going down the shoot, I think, because he's like, oh, no, no, no. There's like a predator down here. Yeah. Hey, how does this thing get in here? I think it's such a good question. I have like a couple theories. One, it was like, it's like a parasite that could like be in certain types of trash or food and then to dispose of it, but then it grew because it's in the trash compactor. Two, it's a feature and not a buck.

They're composting. They're composting, exactly. I don't think the empire composts. No, but the Death Star is like a full, it's like a fully enclosed place. Like maybe they invested in composting because they're trying to be like self-sufficient. And so there's, you don't even see the greenhouse level of the Death Star where all the food gets, gets grown. You know, you need the compost, which is made up of bricks. and chrome plate and wires,

which seems to be the both of us come into this trash room. So what's your third? It's like lived there long enough that it like knows to flee at the moment the like doors are. Yeah. And it has a way out. Yeah. Yes. Has a little tube or something to crawl back into probably.

My theory is this was some kids like in the same in the same way you should. hear stories about like sewer gaiters where like kids like you know had like a little little gator or something and then it got too big and they had to get rid of it and then kind of just deal these yeah like I'm imagining that that a kid's dad came home from a trip and was like hey kid kid I've missed you I know it's been like six years and you're like a whole person now and I haven't seen you but don't worry I brought you a goldfish

from my travels here have it and the kid was like ooh awesome awesome I love my goldfish and then slowly the goldfish aka this creature got too big for its tank

but that was okay with the kid the kid was like we're both growing I'm getting taller too look I grew an inch and you're growing by the foot and it's totally fine. And then dad left again. Comes home. Oh my God.

You can't have this here. This is dangerous. Son, you have to get rid of this. Kid is distraught. What am I going to do? Flushes it down the toilet. Or no, throws it in the garbage compactor. It's so funny, you said the toilet one.

Continue. Knows that, knows that in the garbush. garbage compactor there's tubes, and he had put tubes in the tank. So he knew that his little friend loved tubes. So he knew that he was going to be okay. And my theory is that they talk to each other, like, through the tubes, and he still goes down and visits him in the garbage compactor every once in a while. I'm on the Wikipedia.

And I... You're not far off from what the legends right up here is. Oh, my God. one necessarily. But it very particularly has a sort of like sewer alligator comparison. But quote, before being officially documented, the known to the galactic community was mainly maintenance workers who witnessed the legendary sewer creatures. And their reports are often meant with skepticism.

So I do think that that is 100% the thing of like, that's just an urban myth. These things don't exist. Apparently they did sometimes crawl out of toilets. I put some art in the chat here for us. Nope. Absolutely not. Despite this, they could prove useful since they served to rid waste of biological material, leaving behind salvageable minerals and metals.

They are compost. This art of the woman going, eke, as the dionaga comes out of it. Like, let's be real. That's basically the dread we all have of like some sort of sewer creature emerging from our toilet, right? My nightmare. You lift the seat, and it's going to be like, oh my God, it's like, it's some sort of like squid creature crawling out of this. I never experienced

toilet rat while I lived in New York, but I was living in fear of it constantly. No toilet rat. Is toilet rat real? Or is that an urban legend? That's real. No, that's real. I've never known anyone to get toilet rat. Yeah. I don't, not

personally, but I've heard about it. Okay. I've heard stories about toilet rat. No, my friend had a cousin. who encountered toilet rat. Yeah, no, I... Okay, important follow on here. Rob, you've been calling this thing by its official name.

One more time, it is the... Dianoga. Dianoga. Dianoga. Yeah, Dianoga, one of those. The name Dianoga was one of the oldest terms in Star Wars lore, originating in the first draft of the script for a new hope, where the Jedi were called Dynogas, or occasionally just the die.

This evolved into Jedi, and Dianoga, or various throughout, came to describe a nasty creature lurking about in the garbage, as the early scripts did not always have the trash compactor aboard the Death Star. So, we could be talking about return of the Dianoga instead of Return of the Jedi in a few months. Very different, very different movie. Yeah, very different vibe.

Totally different vibe. We're so close to a Hans Landa, like, like speech about the Dianaga and the Jedi as he's trying to track down the Jedi. I like going from Dynoga to die to Jedi. That's how it works. That's creation right there. That's what it is to be a fucking writer.

I'm just going to bounce those sounds around in your head until you get the right one. Apparently George did not, was not impressed by this Dianoga. Was not impressed by the sewer. creature or the trash creature here. Damn. Yeah.

He thought it should be bigger and more ominous. Well, I mean, it was like... Real tarking brained. It was like a foot and a half of water. I was wondering... What year is Jaws? Oh. He wanted to just have a little Jaws.

Okay. Jaws is first. Jaws is first. Sure. But like, had we not learned from the mechanical shark? Did cooler heads prevail? Like all of Jaws as Jaws. You can't have Star Wars and then also Jaws is there.

All of Jaws is Jaws. It's true. But Lucas thinks he can. You know what I mean? Like a little bit he's competing with Stephen. And so he's a little bit like, well, he couldn't make the mechanical shark work. But I'll bet you I could get my big squid fight going here. Except had he gone that route, it just turns into the bit in Edward.

where they can't power the giant octopus, so they have to just, the person is struggling with the giant octopus and maneuvering the arms. Very clearly. Yeah. I mean, well,

that's like the, this is maybe a classic, this is why it's good that other people are around George, because they basically play this for laughs. Like, it's, it's scary when Luke disappears under the water, but it's kind of a comedy scene

and it's better for it. And that's just like, hey, we've, we've all of our principal characters on screen for the first time this movie. Han, Luke and Le are all here and Chewy's here and so like we could let

them like bounce off of each other and bicker and be scared and it's funny, you know? Enjoy it because you're almost never going to get it for this series. That's right. This is all going to be about breaking up the party and having them like fighting to reunite. Yeah, what

is the total minute count of these three characters are on screen together across all three of these movies? The Bible trilogy, it never happens. It never happened. Abrams made sure first thing he did was have the big table reading with his little black and white photos of everyone there reading, reading those words. Bringing the magic to life again.

But beyond that, no, they're never on screen together. It's funny. Why don't they get out? Yeah, they get out. Again, we keep playing for laughs. The droids thinking that they're. hearing them die as they're exclaiming for joy having having made it yeah good bit it's very good good's very good another good bit uh chewy when he goes to push back on the wall successfully

causes the wall to slow down and like i know it's probably that the the set design is real easy for um oh god who plays uh who plays chewy peter mayhew is that that's that's right? Mayhew. Yes. I think that's right. I think so. I was like Peter,

it was like Peter Selling. It's not Peter Cushing. No. Not Mayhew. Mayhew. It's probably just that the set is a little flimsy, but I do like the idea that Wiki's strength, man. Like this is the industrial strength like compactor.

And he just goes out and braces it and a damn near causes that motor to burn out. Yeah. Is this where we get Vader talking to, to Tarkin about Obi-Wan being here in the midst of Obi-Wan doing all of the stuff because there's a little interesting thing here, I think, before the Vader-O-B-Wan confrontation, he says, he is here.

Obi-1 Canobie? What makes you think so? A tremor in the force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master. Surely he must. must be dead by now. Don't underestimate the force.

The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion. Yes. We have an emergency alert in detention block AA23. The princess? Put all sections on alert. Obi-1 is here. The force is with him.

If you're right, he must not be allowed to escape. Escape is not his plan. I must face him. alone. That's the exchange between the two of them. And I think there's like a few things that are interesting here. One is Tarkin is like, Obi-Wan Kenobi's dead. And it could mean like, oh, we've killed all the Jedi.

But obviously, Vader hasn't killed Obi-Wan. Vader knows he hasn't killed Obi-Wan, even though it's worth remembering this because we haven't covered this in a bit. But Vader is described as having killed all the Jedi in the first part of this movie. So Vader obviously is like, I didn't kill him. him, I feel like he's here. But Tarkin, nevertheless, is like, all of the Jedi are dead. So the way he reads that could mean, you know, or I guess the way Vader says, don't

underestimate the force, could be read as he has the force as an ally to protect him. So while the other Jedi may have been killed, he hasn't been. But Tarkin also could mean, like, he's old. This is, again, like, we don't know how long ago the Clone Wars were. And so he could just be like, he's dead by now. That was ancient history. We don't know how long it's been. And so it could also mean that Vader is saying, like, the force can extend your life.

The force can let you be old, like a wizard or an elf can be. And then also, Tarkin thinks that all of the Jedi are gone, which means that either. Vader did not talk about that. Did not talk about that Obi-Wan is not fucking dead. Or also it means, like, what is the standard belief among imperial officers? now we're looking into the extended universe and the current stuff, but he still says this. And so, like, does Tarkin think

the Inquisitors won in the current continuity of it all when he says this? Does he think that, like, again, we were just talking about the hidden path. We now know that there are many other Jedi out there at this moment. A double jump you can do. Calcas is out there wreaking

mad havoc. Mad havoc. He is a master. He is a girlfriend. There's other Jedi. You know what I mean? Like, how many EU things at this point exist, not even E. How many current things exist where there is another living Jedi out there? Asoka is out there right now. Tarkin knows Asoka, right?

I guess she's not a Jedi. Yeah. She says she's no Jedi. Ezra. Ezra is out there right now. Canaan is out there. No, maybe Canaan's not out there right now. Maybe that time line.

Canaan's a wolf. But Ezra is out there. But maybe Ezra's not out there because he ends the rebels. He went away with the way. And what's his face? Thrawn. Thrawn. Yeah.

But he's like, is he not in the loop? Is no one telling Tarkin about all of these loose Jedi bouncing around right now? Rip? I guess. Sorry, bud. It's a different department. I see. Yeah.

Yeah. I kind of read this. Because when he says specifically that Vader is all that's left of their religion, that to me, kind of signified that even if Obi-1 is out there, that the faith is gone.

The Jedi as a religion are extinct. Yes. The Jedi's religion exist. Exactly. And therefore, they're no longer a threat. Like, without the religion, the institution, the faith itself, there

is, like, the Jedi are not a threat to the empire. into them specifically. I love that read because then it positions Vader because he says you're the only thing that's left of their religion. In that read, that's Tarkin knowing that in his heart of hearts, Vader still kind of sees the world like a Jedi does. Well, and I think 100%, but I've always felt like there's an odd dynamic between those two,

right? In some ways, I think there's a little bit of their, you know, when he says their fire is going out of the galaxy. There's a little bit like, it's not that Tarquin doesn't believe in the force or the Jedi. It is the exalts in their destruction, right? It is like a French revolutionaries could have literally killed God. Yeah, yeah.

And they know that like, yeah, in the recent past, God, the saints, the Trinity, all these things were real, but they're gone now. we destroyed them and we live in an age of the technological terrors and Vader is vestigial

and then in the scene where Vader chokes that guy when people talk about you know his sad superstition and Tarkin watches him tee off but like Vader's response

is that of a true believer right like it is like that is that is way more Jedi than Imperial and more Jedi than Sif. You know what I mean? It pisses him off when people talk this way. Yeah.

And here, yeah, and so at this moment, Vader is, like, I think Tarkin is genuinely kind of, to me, it always feels like he's sort of asserting that, like, they're gone, they're irrelevant. They're just, whether or not Obi-Wan died, it just doesn't matter. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And I think the, the kind of going, the over- or the over-confidence in the technological progress that they now wield and the distance between Tarkin and when the Jedi were around, I think are also at play here where it's like he doesn't, he no longer remembers or has or cares to remember what it was like when Jedi were around or what it was like when when you know to really kind of have to hold them in that respect or high regard of like what they were capable of and what they did and that and that Darth Vader is the only one left this like one you know arguably controllable sort of even though he you know goes off the rails but that that he is on his side and you know

And theoretically, they have the same goals or whatever. It's like, it's almost like when you look back at a time in your life and you're like, was it that bad or like, were they that important to me? Or, you know, there's just kind of like a bias of how monumental now feels like, how huge the present moment, how powerful he feels in the now, I feel like, has kind of colored his memory of the power of a Jedi with like sort of an underestimation to it. Yeah, for sure. I mean, this is, how often have we had this conversation on the show about, like, one of the core things in Star Wars is technology versus the force or just like this idea. that like the technological, the moment of industrialization versus the sort of return to

the roots of feeling and emotion and truth, which is like the preview of what's about to happen in 40 minutes in this movie, right? Yeah. That's that again and again is the thing. Yeah, I mean, that's why it just feels like, it feels like an interesting bit of screenwriting because it's such a bit of ignorance for Tarkin here. I mean, because like, obviously Obi-Wan and Luke Skywalker are here. But like when you get to seeing the rebellion later and they are saying things like, may the force be with you to each other.

Like the fact that the act of saying that becomes an act of resistance itself and like Tarkin Kiddot does not know the society in that way or like, you know, the rebellion is acting against his feeling on what the Jedi are as well in some small way is like, yeah, I don't know. And that Darth Vader is also. a part of that because what he says to Tarkin is no you don't understand like he says the forces with him like he's here and the forces with him he's reinforcing the that same you know kind of communal faith or belief or you know relationship to the force to the force that the resistance also is enacting and saying and kind of sharing with each other as a symbol of of hope and rebellion. And that Darth Vader is closer to that sort of ecosystem of faith than Tarkin is

really interesting. And there's even two reads there, right? Because it's like, on one hand, when he says the forces with him, he could be saying, and I know how hard it has been to kill the Jedi personally. I spent years hunting them down. the force was with them and we won. We beat them down to where I am the only one left. The other way you could read it is that all that time that he'd been, you know,

killing off Jedi, the force wasn't with them anymore. It's been a long time since the force was with someone like Obi-Wan Kenobi. The force had left the Jedi. Maybe, you know, he felt the power of the force the whole time. Maybe the force was with him. Who knows? But there's a way to read that where it's like, you know, I often talk about the force as being a stand-in for the story, right?

That, like, the force is obviously deeply tied to some particular real religious understandings of life and reality and tied to Taoism and a bunch of other stuff. But I also think of it as, like, the force of the story, right? You know, in the most colloquial terms, like, the force is plot armor. The force is the thing that moves the camera. The force is the thing that says, today, the farm boy is going to be the hero. And there are times throughout, you know, we talked a lot about this with Cotor 2 and Craya and the mechanism of the video game as a stand-in for the force. And here it's almost as if Obi-Wan is like, ah, shit, Obi-Wan Kenobi's a protagonist again.

I can feel it. Like, the force is with him. And that means that everything we're about to do right now, you can't count anything as certain. Because once the force is involved, once the structure of a narrative gets layered on top of a person, they can become, they can do. heroic and incredible things that even your very powerful space laser cannot stop. And it's important here. Like the end of that scene is, uh, Tarkin is like, all right, well, if Obi-Wan is here, we better go get him.

And, you know, before he can escape. And Vader is like, and this is to your point before Allie, his plan is not to escape. Vader knows right now. He's not trying to escape. He has an other, he's a different goal here. What that goal is, uh, you could be, like you said, die in front of, of Luke so that he could become his permanent mentor. Well, I do kind of love that that, like,

the notion that Vader has a sense of, like, the force as driver of the arc of history, of story, and that, like, Obi-Wan appearing here is the cometh the hour, cometh the man moment, which sounds biblical. It isn't. But the, like, his awareness that, like, oh, the appointed time has, arrived for the pendulum to begin swinging

swinging back against us. And I do think again, like when when they pick up the rest of the story, I do think Vader increasingly moves with a sense of well, just one, rage over what he is discovered about who is out there. They did not know was out there. And two, like a

like almost like religious sense of purpose around like what the appearance of Luke Skywalker means and right now he this is awakened by by Obi Wan is showing up here and and Tarkin dismisses it as he's going to be dismissing every single threat from now until till the end of the movie a couple very small things here before we get to the big confrontation one I love Obi-Wan sneaking around. We obviously know Obi-Wan early in the movie did the Jedi Mind trick to, you know, push people away. But here we just get this kind of passive version.

He's just good at sneaking. He's just good at, you know, lurking through the hallway, skulking, you know, around the things. All those shots are just so iconic to me. They're really great. Two, I really love the banter between two of the Stormtroopers or when I was like, hey, did you see that new VT-16? Yeah, some of the other guys are telling me about it. like talking about the hot rods that they've seen or whatever it is. I don't remember what the

actual thing. I don't remember if we actually get what it is, but it sounds like a spaceship or some sort of piece of big equipment or something. I don't know that we talk enough about how funny this movie is. We talk a lot about the grand narrative and shit, but it's just like there's so many little funny lines in it. Well, and so much Star Wars parody has all, like, Star Wars already got there. How many bits are... Have you seen the sketch where it might be college humor? I can't remember, but it's a bunch of Stormtroopers in a stormtrooper bar, realizing that it's Death Star Day. And they basically start 9-11 reminiscing over drinks.

But, like, so much stuff that it's like, wouldn't be funny if, like, the Death Star, the Empire is just a place to work. Star Wars already got there. That was baked in that in the background, you can see, these are just schmucks like marking time on their day until they can get back, get out of their uniform, and go hang out. Like, that is it. Yep. We get the stuff with Han chasing the stormtroopers and then running into a bigger group of them

than he anticipated and turning and running back the other way. This is arguably, hmm, I kind of is the one place where I think maybe the specialty makes the joke land a little bit more. What's the change? So in special edition fashion, it's way overstated. But Han chases the guys down the corridor, you know, crying his battle cry. He rounds the corner. And instead of it just being the same handful of dudes who just turn around and start chasing him,

he rounds the corner and encounters like an imperial army company, basically like hanging out in a hangar with like a ATST Walker dozens of you know dozens of stormtroopers and then immediately flees the other way but now as I say that

I guess the funny thing here is that nobody really knows who's chasing who or why the storm troopers realize like wait we could just we outnumber him stop and get him yeah it's just so funny because like who are these guys who the like

who the fuck are these guys that are pulling this shit off. I have to imagine that they have, like, you know, wanted posters on all the known sort of vigilantes and resistance members in the galaxy. And it's like, here are two random-ass dudes who are running around with the princess, like getting into hijinks.

I would be pissed. I would be like, we were briefed on these guys. I thought it was Tuesday. Well, and then it turns out, you know, Vader has told everyone, like, whatever you do, let whoever you find get away. Maybe that's the real reason the stormtroopers start running.

And they're like, he keeps chasing us. We do need to, like, hurt him back forward to the show. And they keep missing. And this is, so this is the funny thing. The origins of stormtroopers can't hit anything is really, it comes here, right? Because they miss so many clear shots, but everything you see on the Death Star

once Vader detects Obi-Wan's presence is them trying to make it look good enough for our heroes to think that they're really getting one over on the Empire and making an escape. But this whole thing is a little bit like a, it's a scam. And it kind of, it makes it kind of funny

because the movie's super tautly paced, edited. The escape is really exciting, but like, hey, why'd the only send two tie fighters out of the Death Star? Because they're trying to, like, let you go. And the movies met at such pains to be like, only Imperial Stormtroopers would have blown apart the sand crawler with this precision fire. Now, when you get to Endor,

and the decision to have furry toddlers destroy the empire okay now they really can't shoot for shit they really do not put on a good showing but at least here the idea is they're really busting ass trying to make it so that the rebels feel like they're having a near escape

including letting Luke do his little grappling hook trick to swing across the chasm which is always such like a funny I don't know. Visually that's one of the few things it's like, it just doesn't show up again in Star Wars really.

We know whatever produces the little belt grappling hook again in the main movies, right? I didn't just miss it. Wait, wait, wait, wait. It shows up in Return of John. Does it? Oh, because he, yeah, of course,

because no, it shows up in, in Empire. So it comes in every movie. Where is it in return? Skiff. And in Empire, he uses it to climb into the AT-A-T at the beginning. Yep. So actually, I'd take it all back.

Luke Skywalkers Rappling hook real. Yeah. Okay. Do you think Steven Spielberg saw this scene

and was like we need to make Harrison Ford do that in Indiana Jones like a hundred times? Like we just need to be swinging all the time. That just has to happen.

Oh, I thought you actually meant a different thing. I thought you meant the chasing a bunch of guys, chasing someone to them be... Also that. Because that does just straight up happen in one of them for sure. But the answer might be yes.

The answer is probably yes. Lucas and Spielberg are such boys that it's like, you could feel them bouncing the ideas and like their inside jokes and stuff, right? Yeah, Spielberg was like, oh, I saw you try and get a little jaws moment in there. That's right. Maybe I'll get a little swinging action in one of mine. See what happens. It feels so much like the rest of the.

the relationship is going to be Spielberg being like, I don't know, do you think we make this work for this movie and being, let me see what we can do. Let me see what the ILM guys can come up with. We've talked about the close encounters bet, right? Here, that the two of them both kind of like bet that the other ones, I'm trying to remember the exact thing. I think they both bet that the other person's sci-fi movie that year would do more. and whoever won would get points on the winning one, like on the winning movie, which is why Spielberg made money from Star Wars being so successful,

because he was like, no, dude, Star Wars is going to be way bigger than Close Encounter. Close encounter to the third time. It's obvious. Like, this is not close. A percentage. Yeah. Okay.

He had great odds, though. If it went the other way, he would have been just. Yeah. set for better. He offers Lucas, I found it. He offers Lucas 2.5% of Close Encounters box office gross in return for 2.5 of Star Warses.

I see. I see, I see. And he made more money on that deal with respect to Close Encounters a movie that I think is very good. Wow. I was like, is this a reverse Kanye West and 50 cent? It kind of is.

Yeah, it kind of is. Yeah. What did Connie and 50 Cent do? There was just beef about... Yeah, in 2008, there was just beef about whose album would be bigger, whether it was graduation or what's that 50 album? The fact that I can tell you one of them and not the other... Says it all. It's the one after Get Richard D. Tryin.

Anyway. And money was made. Connie won that one. It was a different era in many ways. In many, many, many ways. So many ways. Yeah. Um, so we, we get to the bestie reunion.

We do. It's cool. They see each other in the hallway. Yeah. They reminisce. Remember when? Yeah, they split a beer. They hang out for a little bit, you know.

It's good seeing you. It's good seeing you. And they go to the way. Remember we had that badminton set? Yeah, it's, no, so we get the, uh, you know, Vader and I do like the degree to which Vader immediately regresses to the petulant child this feels very Anakin. No sooner

to see Obi-1 then it's like ha, see the student has become the master you know. He doesn't even say a student. He says a learner right? Which is very funny to me. I was once but the learner. I'm not a student. I learned from you. I was never a student. I'm way beyond my permit now. I can I can use the force alone without you to babysit me. Yeah, like, here he just immediately regresses to being a very arrested,

arrested adolescent, you know, which is, which in keeping with the, the, the, the, the Anakin won't we will eventually see. The thing that strikes me when I watch the scene, though, is like, again, there's so much delightful ambiguity in allegations. Guinness's performance, and there is so much vagueness about what exactly they know about each other, what exactly has gone down between them, that you can read anything in. And I really thought, after we watched Obi-Wan, I went back and I watched this scene. Because I was like, there's just no way.

Like, come on. This is a, we're really reaching here with a retcon that you can convincingly pull off in light of this movie. Not really. this scene, there is enough like continuation of an old conversation that I can kind of buy that these guys have seen each other since the establishment

of the empire. Way more than I can buy that like Owen Lars has, you know, has like this deep relationship with Anakin Skywalker. That obviously doesn't work in light of those other stuff we've seen. But here

I can kind of buy that like these dudes have have clashed a few times. Well, this is the problem is, I think you're right, if the only two things you've seen are Obi-Wan, Kenobi, and this. But once you get to Revenger the Sith, which puts such a point on the finality of that, of that conflict in that moment. And it, it successfully, I think, leverages your knowledge that, oh, the next time they see each other will be the last time and it's, you know, 25 years from now and they will both have aged and they will both, or 20 years from now, and they both have aged and they will both have like become this kind of final

version of themselves that we see. That like, I think that is harder to deal with in relationship, in relation to the Obi-Wan stuff because that gap is, is, you know, really did work in making the Revenge of the Sith stuff feel stronger in relation to this stuff. And like going back on watching this after Revenge of the Sith before seeing. that before saying the Obi-1 Canobi show, like, I think that is one of the things that Lucas managed to really get right and the team really managed to get right in the prequels. I think that that's the thing that gets destabilized. It, like, it lets some of the air out of the patient waiting.

You're right, Rob. It is totally coherent. It's not incoherent, but it's, I think it makes it all a little less tragic and a little more mundane, which is a totally fine way of reading it. But, like, yeah, yeah. I think the other half of this for me is just like, oh, this duel is electric. Like, they have, the lightsaber is just a cold device. The way it smashes against each other, yes, I really love them in this cut of it,

the 4K77 kind of classic version of it. The choreography is very simple, you know, it is an old guy doing some very basic sword fighting moves against us, you know, a stuntman inside of a big, I mean, he's an actor. I shouldn't, and Stuttman or actors, but you know what I mean. He's, he's embodying Vader in this way, but he's stuck. I don't know what he was. I just don't know.

I remember I read that the Vader costume was heavy as hell. And that ironically, uh, Alec Guinness, however old he was, uh, had an easier time with these scenes than the dude in the Vader suit. Right. Because the thing couldn't breathe. It was heavy. And so it's actually less, uh, Alec Guinness that is the limitation of how athletic this fight is, as it is that the Vader costume, it's like, it's worse than the Batman

costume in the first of the Nolan movies, right? Where it's just like, there's zero mobility. Yeah. Similar deal here. He was a weightlifter who also liked wrestling and trained wrestlers, but he wasn't a practicing wrestler. So, but he was a weightlifter. And so, yes, I think inside of that big, heavy gear.

But, like, I get it. The choreography here is very simple, straightforward stuff. We'll talk more about the way the choreography changes. but like, and there's a lot of material out there. You can go hear Lucas talking about how like, oh, in the first movie, we really wanted to emphasize how heavy the lightsabers were. You always had to have two hands on the lightsaber. This is a very traditional fight in that way.

And that changes even inside of this series, even inside of this trilogy, let alone when you get to the prequels and the sequels. But I still just think that like the core of the choreography here and the like the relationship between these two guys, like the way that every. stops to watch them, it's electric to me. Even the other Imperials. It's just like, give a space. Give a space.

Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is really cool. And a good example of, I think it's very easy to think about these things in terms of progress, progress narratives around stuff like this. And it's very easy to look at stuff like this and be like, well, if you do that now, you do wirework and such. A wirework version of this First of all, that technique got overused

And it became silly and It's still only as good as the choreographers That are involved with it And the concept for the fight And that's the crucial thing Movie fight scenes are Narrative moments And they have to express something

And this one expresses what it needs to Which is these are two old foes It turns out You know Anakin is younger than this series thinks it is and younger than it thinks he was in Return of the Jedi, right? That, like, he pops up Return of the Jedi. It's like, yeah, so imagine Marlon Brando's under there.

That's basically the concept. And now, like, he's, you know, someone who's barely 40, if that, given the timing of all this. But at this moment, it feels like two old sword masters in, like the twilight of their lives. That like this duel that was put off as young men, now they encounter each other as Obi-Wan's moment is fading. And Vader's isn't that far behind. And to your point of it kind of works at the Obi-Wan show,

part of the reason it can work is the ambiguity, like you said, in not just Guinness's performance, but in what we know about the Clone Wars, in the version of the story that Obi-Wan has told us so far, this guy used to be his mentor, or he used to be his student, he was his mentor, and then he betrayed the Jedi and killed Luke's father. And in that version of the story, which we know isn't true, but the viewer when this movie came out in 77 doesn't know that.

And maybe Lucas doesn't even fully know. We know this. You know, that has all, that all changes, we've talked about. It could have been that they fought dozens of times at the end of the Clone Wars or throughout the clone. We don't know. And so it could be less, this is the first. fight they've had in 20 years and more they fight every 10 years or every they used to fight one they were like old you know they had there was a whole series of fights the movie serial villain version of

this that's exactly what I mean worked exactly that way exactly that oh I see you're here again Darth very much like ventriss and Obi-Wan exactly where it always feels like I see we meet each other again, my dear. Exactly. Because did it last week. We'll be doing it next week. Yeah, what's the Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon, right? Foo Manchu, like this style of often orientalized villain is like the recurring one-off, you

know, that you fight and then you move on to have another Pope adventure against. And that is what it feels like it could be with the two of them here. It's just that we have all the other kinds of. context. And once you have all the other context, and it's so good, the context is so good. And it does fit together. It does rhyme just fine with Mustafa, you know. And not least of all, because the end of this, with Mustafa in mind, you know, Anakin gets his limbs removed. He is physically maimed by Obi-Wan Kenobi. And when he strikes Obi-Wan down, there is nobody at all. Right? that's so crisp.

That's such thematically sharp stuff, right? That like the thing that happened the last time they fought, again, bracketing Obi-Wan Kenobi, the TV show is that one of them was physically, you know, completely cut to pieces. And here we have someone who has ascended, transcended physicality entirely when the blade comes down on him. And Rob, you and I were talking right before we started, the way that you were saying the way that Vader no-sells this. It's just kind of like, oh, okay, okay, weird. You step on your, your robes. Yeah, him stepping, stepping on the robes was like the most Anakin, like, moment to me.

I'm just like. He better not be now you seeing me. Yeah. Come on, Obi-Wan, not another one of your tricks. Yeah, totally. Damn it, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was magic again. Fuck. But, no, there is like, and even like, the little things, Obi-Wan shutting the blade down and igniting it repeatedly with those little, like, fencing motions, little, like, fucking with him.

That's the only way I can put it. Like, Vader is still all power and aggression. He swing that thing, like a broad sword. Uh-huh. And Obi-Wan's kind of like flicking him beneath the eye with his lightsaber. And then like the film making of it,

but also that like Obi-Wan is kind of staging this moment. They are framed behind that blast door in the docking bay with a clear view toward the ramp of the falcon. Luke and the gang comes sprinting out into the docking bay and they look at this like perfectly composed image.

Yes. Luke locks eyes. with Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan looks at Vader, and undeniably, he smirks. He smirks. That's all Obi-W-W-W-W! And it's the, and it's like, you know,

Ryan Johnson understood, this is the shit that rhymed with the last Jedi, that, like, this is the, you are beaten. You're so, like, this is, you're not even on my lovely because you don't understand the degree to which, like, I've worked you into this moment, and you're about to beat yourself.

And, Obi-Wan looks at Vader. Vader misses the look. It just pisses him off more, and he gives that last heave of the blade. And now, like, again, in the context of the rest of Star Wars we've seen, nobody gets cut with this and disappears. Literally, we just saw, like, that dude in the bar, blood and gore everywhere.

Obi-Wan's just gone. He gets raptured. Yeah, it's funny because, like, this isn't how Clygon dies, right? They have a fire. Yeah. So he is some advanced version of what Quigon has learned. Or they had not decided that about Quigon when they shot that movie. That Quigod would become the guy who had figured out Jedi immortality.

No, I mean, they certainly figured out by Revenge of the Sith. That's what I mean. I do remember it was so pointed that he did not disappear when Mal. Because like that is obvious. Like when that hit and his. His body just dropped. Everyone's looking at each other like, whoa, wait, whoa. Well, that's what happens when Jedi die?

Because Yoda disappears. That's right. They all, they all go into the ether. They all rapture out of the film series. Quigon gets cut down. And it's like, what the fuck? And if you were like 11, 12 years old at the time, that's basically all you talked about, like, for two weeks. What are you going on there?

Like, I thought the Jedi became ghosts. Yeah. It's cool It's cool to think about And it really pisses Luke off He goes It really pisses him off Now he wants to go take on the empire by himself

Now he's like I'm gonna shoot my way I'm gonna get over here And who is it who triggers the The door to shut? Does one of the gangs shoot it shut? Oh great question So that Luke cannot do what he obviously wants to do That seems likely

I'm pulling the scene up here. Oh, wait, no, actually, you know what? Luke thinks of the team here. Well, no, that's how Obi-Wan calls to him. Yeah. After Obi-1 goes down, Luke wants to shoot it out with the whole squad. Oh, that's right. He does.

He goes, run, Luke run. And then Luke hits the door control with a shot. And then they run. And then they run. Yeah. I only think, I only know this because I, when I was a kid, I heard people talking about Obi-Wan saying run, Luke, run a lot. And I was like, no, he doesn't.

What are you talking about? Because I just never could hear it. I don't know. I didn't know when it happened. I don't know how I didn't hear it as a kid, you know. But eventually I was like, oh, okay, there's like a level named Run Luke Run in Super Star Wars on the S&ES or something. And I was like, why is it called that? So funny.

Why would it be called that? And it's because he says this. And it's like the first bit of post-death Obi-O-B-Wan communication that we get. Which is really fast, actually. The fact that we get an Obi-Wan voice basically immediately is kind of funny. Today you would have waited, you know, to the very end of the movie and we've teased it. Oh, man, doesn't that time? No, he's trying to shoot this boy like a missile right now.

We got to get a move on here. The other thing, just imagine the stormtroopers whipping the helmet. That door shot, they're whipping the helmet to the ground. Like, how many guys just died because we can just put that kid down? Yeah. Like, how many, like, he killed, like, eight of us got God while we were, like, firing into the air. We couldn't just kill him? Yeah.

Why couldn't we kill him? Did they all get to escape? Yeah. Uh, and then there, you know, we get the Millennium Falcon escape, uh, where, as it turns out, will be the case for a lot of this movie. Chewy is the pilot of the Millennium Falcon. and Han is a turret gunner. That's right.

Give Chewy's fucking props. Chewy is the one who is dodging incoming tie fighter shots and shit. I mean, okay, the asteroid field thing is pretty tight

and that is that Hans is the control for that. Yeah. But in terms of the dog fighting, Chewy's the pilot in that moment and yeah,

Hans working the gun. Also, the Millennium Falcon looks so good. here. As they leave the Death Star, we get this like kind of hero shot of it reversing. And you just see the detail of the model. And it's just, you know, news at 11, the Millennium Falcon looks cool. But like, it's just an all-timer, man. They do such a good job of, especially in the combat in the in the dogfight above the Death Star later. But I think we talked about in Revenge of. In Revenge of the Red Star later. but I think we talked about in Revenge of the SIF that space battle is huge and things are whipping through space

there's a lot of sense of space and distance we've talked about this how different portrayals of space combat have like more or less sense of motion and speed and relative positioning and I do love it when you get that sense of like you're going in through the action and sort of the Revenge of the Sith mode but original trilogy particularly the this movie very much understands that like if the model looks fast and it like does kind of a cool slide in front of the camera, it'll feel fast. Doesn't matter if it like convinces you that they're actually moving it however fast

through, it doesn't matter. It just in the same way like a frame and a comic book, it just has to look like it's fast, like it's like it's dynamic. and your head will fill in the rest. And that is all the space combat in this movie is things feel like they're happening at a breakneck pace. And it's model just sort of scooting across in front of the camera. It doesn't matter. It looks awesome.

The sounds can never say enough good things, but like everything sounds so good. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we kind of gestured at this last time when I was like, oh, also, by the way, this movie sounds great. this soundtrack is great and all the sound effects are great. But like truly Ben Burt, who is the sound designer, and I believe it ends up also doing some editing in the prequel trilogy. But just, you know, guy who helped invent a genre of film in a way, like this particular style of science fiction adventure, you know, film,

I think owes so much the sound design of Ben Burt, who not only put together like the Thai fighter sound and the lightsaber sounds and the blaster sounds, but just like in doing so I think creates a sort of, there's so many Star Wars copies that then exist over the next few decades, right? Both on a TV and especially in film that owe so much of this style of like swashbuckling. What does a laser gun sound like to Ben Burt? It just, you know, I keep saying the word iconic, but we're watching Star Wars. like, yeah, it is iconic. It is where a lot of things kind of firmed up and settled in so many ways.

And I think the sound design is a huge part of that. What does it sound like when one spaceship flies past another spaceship? How do we draw that? How does it feel like a fighter plane, but slightly different? How does it feel like you're in space instead of, you know, in the air, which is, of course, we know that space would not allow that sort of sound, but that's okay. It's not about whether it could or couldn't. It's about what it feels like. You know, it's about what the sensation and the imagination and, you know, giving you the sort of the approximation of what it must feel like to be this sort of adventuring space trio or whatever through sound design is a hard thing to achieve. And I think it's damn near perfect work.

And then later the LucasArts video games would hardwire me. to associate the tie fighter with stereo panning. Yeah, totally. Sorry, got to do the iMuse sound check to see if my sound blasterers calibrated correctly. So, going to nerd out briefly here. Just one thing, just bear in mind. The Millennium Falcon's quad laser batteries. Okay.

Just take note of them. They're kind of different than what we're going to see, the Empire rocking on the Death Star, that you have this like rapid, fire, multiple machine gun, like battery that they're swiveling around that's very good at knocking Thai fighters out of the sky. And it's based off like anti-aircraft batteries from World War II era where you would have these like heavy, like literally quad machine guns were a thing that were all over like battleships and like mounted on trucks, specifically for dealing with

with like fighters and fighter bombers. And so, like, in Star Wars, we know this technology exists. Like, the Falcon is equipped with them to deal with fighters. And just bear that in mind when we see what the Death Star is rocking. I see. Yes. Anything else we want to talk about the Thai fighter escape? And then things are a little bit chill on, like, they're on the flight deck.

And this is the first time, Hans kind of like trying not to think about her. Yeah. And Luke is like, cool. briefly on the last episode but it is very very funny how Han big bros Luke in the scene where as soon as he clocks that

Luke cares about Han's opinion and of Leah and if he is into her or not Han starts fucking with Luke but it's also sincere. Like, I, I don't think, I think it's a bit of Han pulling back the curtain. It's veiled by, you know, him just trying to get a rise out of Luke.

But you're talking about just to be clear, because I know what I know what you're talking about, because we had the conversation, but people, it's been two weeks. You're talking about Han being like, so do you think there's a chance for a guy like me? Yeah, so, so Luke, Leah, and. And Han are sitting in sitting in the cockpit. KIA. Yeah. And Leah walks out and Luke immediately.

Specifically because of Han being like, you're going to pay me for this, right? Basically. And like being extremely like I'm not part of the rebellion. Good luck with all that. It's over for me. I'm not part of this. Real quick, passive aggression appears to be the currency of the realm with the rebellion. if money is all you care about

then that is all you'll get lady he was hired to deliver cargo to your rich dad the planet was fucking blown up and he just did a big heist toward the Death Star but I don't think

I don't think it's out of pocket to be like where's my money we're pro worker here of course Michael man's Star Wars and the Star Wars. I love Luke, by the way,

where Leia is like, Leah is like, all this guy cares about his money. He doesn't care about anything real. I don't know if he cares about anything. And then Luke calls back to her. He's like, I care. Oh, brother.

Dude. In years to come, Luke will be like, it's not like a really got friend zone. On some level, we just sort of sense that we were siblings. Yeah. And it went that way because, like,

obviously, we just knew that would never work. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The fact that there was no chemistry was actually that we were siblings the whole time. We could sense it. Yeah.

We were sensing it. It was stopping us. She does not care about Luke Skywalker. She's going to give a shit about him. I mean, there's another point in this movie. We'll get to it. But so she walks out and Luke immediately asks Han, so what do you think of her? And Han's like, I'm trying not to think about her.

actually is where I'm at right now. Many such cases. And then Luke is like, okay, good. And Han looks over at him and is like, but you know, she's kind of starting to grow on me. What do you think about a princess and a guy like me? And Luke immediately cuts him off. It's like, no.

I don't know. It could never work. Never. Their little look is very good. I don't think Luke has ever met a woman that is an Aunt Peru, is what I'm also... No. Well, no, they cut the scene. They cut the scene.

Otherwise, we would have Cammy who would be like, get lost wormy. That's right. His friends who don't like him. Yeah. I forgot there were other people at the beginning of that scene and not just the man that he was like very close to. like very physically intimate with right that's how they speak on Tate to me

running together across the play bigs cut to the A. Van Fillion rebuild scene of the two horses running side by and side. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's them. That's them? Yavin 4 looks so cool.

Yavin the big red planet looks cool. Them pulling down into the like forested ruins and there's like the rebel like watchman. up on the tower, like scanning stuff. Like, all of that stuff just looks so sick. I'd forgotten how good some of these, like, initial kind of, you know, what is Yavin shots, the establishing shots are throughout all this.

The hangar looks really cool. Even when they're on their little cart that's bringing them around the hangar, they're little, like, industrial, like, I don't know, like, little robo carts. Yeah, their little golf cart. Also, like, so gloomy. Yeah. Which I think is something that I think they even shied away from in, when we returned to the set a little bit in like Rogue One. Rogue one, yeah.

Like Andor. Which is that, and in like rebels. In this movie, the rebel fighters just sit there in like these black voids of, it. It is like we've taken over an abandoned haunted pyramid, basically. We stashed our fighters in there. But it is not a proper hanger. They just rigged up a place to store their shit here to fly missions out of. But it gives it this like gloomy funereal atmosphere, which really does crank up the sense of menace and like dread before this mission.

And again, like Lucas operating very comfortably within the traditional. of like World War II and post-war-2 like fighter pilot movies, right? This is before the big raid, the the long mission briefing explaining how long the odds are going to be against you. But when they've revisited the set, like Rogue One is at pains to try to lovingly recreate like the command room where Leah and the, you know, general are listening to the radio chatter. But going back and watching this movie now, it is just striking the degree to which it feels like they are in a crypt with their fighters. It's kind of claustrophobic. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. And then we're going to get the thing that you were kind of teasing before, Rob, about learning how the empire has decided to defend the Death Star and what type of turths they have. So quickly, I just want to shout out the little droid. There's a little droid who seems to be giving Artu props when it gets mentioned that Artu delivered the plan. There's another little droid that, like, is behind Artu. They don't like say anything to each other, but they do kind of like Artu's head kind of swive back. And the other one sort of like, it's always like he's nodding at him. Like, damn, okay.

Here's the thing. The Astromax are the fighter pilots of the droid world. Yes. Right? Yes. Like all the astromex are basically in Tom Wolfe's, the right stuff. That is the world they inhabit.

All the other droids are like, man, can you imagine being a fucking astromac doing the stuff, making the fighter go? And then it'll be like, yeah, it wasn't nothing. Yeah,

I was born death star. I got the plans out. No big deal. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing. But, man, I guess,

you know what, though, you are starting to get sibling vibes from La and Luke. Because he also, looks crushed when Han is like, I'm taking my reward money and getting out of here. Why don't you join my ship?

And Luke is like, you know what they're up against. They need a good pilot. And he's trying to appeal to him that like, yeah, we all know it's a suicide mission, but maybe it won't be if you can just throw in. And Hans like, no, man. This doesn't sound like this is a suicide mission. And I got no part of it.

And it's kind of to Hans credit. He doesn't want his new buddy getting killed for this either. He sees a naive kid who is running away to go join a doomed cause. Han's priority at that moment, it's his last shot. He's taking the money. But also, if he convinced this kid to give up this stupid idea and come with him, that would be the good deed that Han does here. That is the kindness he can do, is try to spare Luke from his idealism.

and then Chewy over there being like, I don't know, Han. I kind of want to go fight the empire. Yeah, he has a good reason to. Yeah. But Luke also is like, take care of yourself, Han. But I guess that's what you're best at. All right, dude. Him and Leah weren't even raised together, yet they picked up the exact same, like,

Oh, what's this? Let me just throw a little guilt banana keel in front of you. If I can leverage one more complaint about the Obi-Wan show here in this moment, I am so mad that they, like, didn't trust the line between Padmae and Leia in these movies. Because you can, like, when she's, like, doing the Tarkin thing and when she's, like, taking the gun and she has all these moments is just like, you've ruined it.

This was such a nice line between these two characters and you had to like gilded the lily so much that you can't even make shape of it anymore. It's so frustrating when you go back. One of the moments that you're like, the work was already done and they fucked that.

Like I'm curious, what is this? What are the connections that they're just making a hash of? Watching this movie, like, especially in the Tarkin scene where she's like trying to big game him and especially when she's talking to Darth Vader.

Like I, and she's doing the Senate thing. I was like, he must be so sad because it feels like he's talking to Padme. Like, it just felt like she was being Padmey in that moment. And like these other moments where Leah gets to be the cool girl who holds the gun, which like Padma becomes that because Carrie Fisher could be that. And like the lineage is already there. But like rewatching this movie and seeing that like the lineage is already in the script and in the characters to have this, like,

other chapter of this that has to be like, well, Leia is actually this whole, own separate character who, like, when she was five, this is who she was, was not like, it's just so annoying. Yeah. Yeah. Alas. Alas.

It's funny. I remember her saying stuff during the prep for all of this, like the war room briefing, but I guess it's just, what's his name? Adama? No, not Adama. That's a different.

Do Donna. Do Adama is Battle Star Galactica, right? Yeah. But this is where we learned the thing that you were setting up, Rob, right? Which is they are not ready for fighters. No, and crucially, here's the thing.

To me, that feels like such a fascinating choice. The thing the emperor chose to secure the Death Star Against was capital ships. And as far as we mean, know it's mostly the empire like I see what you're saying they've got the capital ships

let's let's unfold this a little bit Dodona gives the speech the briefing and the briefing is hey the death star has been prepared for fighting like you said fighting capital ships the lasers that they have

are not good against fighters they're good against a direct large scale assault and this is a small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defenses, which is why they're moving faster than the big laser cannons that the Death Star has, because those are meant to be shooting against huge, giant, you know, freighters and battleships and cruisers and things like that, the sort of things that we will see in the rest of the Rebellions, space wars, and the rest of Star Wars.

But we don't see any of those really besides the Tantif Four at the beginning of this movie. They're not part of this assault. The one biggest ship that we see is a Star Destroyer. And Rob is your point that perhaps the Emperor wants the Death Star not only to be... The Death Star is built to fight against the Imperial Fleet. Like that is the quiet part of this. It is so weird that they have armored this thing to the teeth to fight capital ships. The Empire already has the biggest capital ships on the market.

And that'll be underscored in Return of the Jedi when it's time for a big battle. and the Empire's going to win this fleet action. Like the Rebel Fleet, if the Death Star isn't there, they are still going to lose. This is why Akbar is like, we're going to get killed in close range combat against the Imperial Fleet. And so, you know, obviously,

how much does Luke's know at this point? But it becomes very funny in light of how the series develops. The Death Star appears to be armed and armored against a threat that could only come from the Empire itself. that the reason it's so vulnerable to rebel starfighters is because that was not the priority

that was on the Death Star when it was being built. Yeah. This is a small thing. I just want to shout out throughout, but especially here, you would get the kind of fly-through of the Death Star plans

and this kind of like vector graphics display. All of the computer screens and all of the computer graphics in this movie are just so crisp. The vector graphics going to like snap, snap, snap, the way if you use CAD machines of that era, you couldn't scroll smoothly at all. Anytime you moved where you were on like CAD machines of that era, it would snap to

a different part of the diagram. Yeah. Yeah. Really, really cool. And, you know, this is the. sort of thing that's like, it's so core to what Star Wars' identity is, is that they don't have big HD screens, that they have vector graphics, that they have simple maps, that they have that sort of stuff. Obviously, partly that just reflects the identity of the time, but

like they could have shown video of models. They could have done other decisions, right? They made these decisions. And whether that's in the briefing room or in the computers on the Death Star or on the targeting device of the X-Winges or the Millennium Falcon's gunnery seats, all of that stuff helps contribute to like what Star Wars is. And it's always used to be like, oh yeah, people made decisions to make that happen the way it was. You know, they could have made different decisions, but they made these ones, you know. The kind of crispness of the digital drawing of the ship dropping the bomb into the long tube that goes to the heart of the Death Star.

It's just that simple. It's just that easy. Yeah. I used to do things like that. I used to shoot wamp rats with my T-31. You know? Not a big deal. Well, it also, a line that gets funnier,

given that, well, you're Luke Skywalker. Like, when you're just like, you can't make that fucking shot. What are you talking about? And Luke's like, oh, sorry, I just, I drain those all the time. Well, it was like Steph Curry trying to understand.

Yeah, what do you mean? We just shoot it from half court to win. What do you mean? What does, we just shoot it from half court? No, that's not the, that's your plan? That's not, hang, no, no, no. Okay, you run out and you pull up short and then you shoot it over their heads.

Yeah. They won't see that common. Just drain it, man. It is, it is very funny. And we do get a sense. it's so funny that Rogue One will eventually be like oh man and Galen Erso was in their designs like this so the rebels could destroy it

all it will take is a physically impossible shot with a proton torpedo yeah well they think the computer will do it for them and Star Wars is about how the computer will not do it for you if only Nvidia had heard that We would be in a different world. Oh, God.

This fight is great. This sequence is incredible. And again, the models are so glorious. And just a small note here, for me, like, one of the benchmarks of technological progress in video game graphics was, the more convincingly they could make the Purple Drive Trail on Rebel Starfighters, that was like a sign of, like, where graphics currently at. Like how good, because the more, the better you could render, the purple drive trail, it was like, oh, damn. Like, I remember when the Star Wars module for Star Wars galaxies, I think, came out, and it had, like, star combat in it.

And, or maybe I'm just thinking of X-Muvers is a TIE fighter. Either way, I was looking at the graphics for that, and I was like, holy shit, now it looks, that looks like just, just like the movies. Just saw these models, and I yearned, yearned to. Yeah. To play with them. Oh yeah. Big time. And the special edition goes through and changes a lot of these effects and I think tries to make it a little more convincing. But again, kind of gilding the lily. The model work in this in this movie is exceptional. It looks absolutely incredible. The whole fight is cool. even though again it is real close to people just like

whipping toys around in front of their face and making like spaceship sounds but that's like part of why it works to some degree right so yeah it's a bloodbath that's the other part is they get mowed down and it is

the there's there's kind of like it's a really long space battle and that is the other part of this that I think is I think Star Wars as it goes on maybe loses some of its connection to

military sci-fi in some ways but like this movie's really invested in like what is the overall plan of attack here right the X-Men is going to fly cover for the Y-Wings they're going to try to like do suppression of air defenses the Y-wings are going to go in there Vader is going to be like our cannons aren't going to do

get the job done you pilots with me we're going to go up there and we're going to start like wiping these dudes out but it's all it's a long space battle and every moment it's very like at pains to make it coherent to you what the overall plan is and what the overall strategy is now is this later like editing magic that is being used to ramp up the tension yes lucas didn't really know how to make this saying absolutely but but it's here yeah now This is the quote I found it. I found the original version of this quote to make sure I got it right. This is from a 1977 interview with George Lucas by Paul Scanlan for Rolling Stone.

So this is from August 9th, August in 77. So this is like, you know, this movie just came out basically. Scanlon asks, what about the final battle sequence, the dog fight? And Lucas, George Lucas says the dog fight sequence was extremely hard to cut and edit. We had storyboards that we had taken from old movies and we used the black and white footage. of old World War II movies intercut with pilots talking and stuff. So you could edit the whole sequence in real time. My wife, Marcia, can normally cut a whole reel, all 10 minutes of the film, in one week.

I think it took her eight weeks to cut that battle. It was extremely complex, and we had 40,000 feet of dialogue footage of pilots saying this and that. And she had to call through all that and put in the fighting as well. Nobody really has ever tried to interweave an actual plot story into a dog fight, and we were trying to do that, however successful or unsuccessful we were here. So eight weeks of edits for this one real footage, basically. Yeah. George, I don't think that's true.

Then no one had ever done a plot via dogfight before. There's more than World War I movies. Like go and watch them, man. Or like Bridges of Togoree literally has the Death Star Trench run, but it's the Korean War. So like, anyway, point is, though, boy, that sounds wild, though, because like that all sounds like the equivalent of I just kept shooting coverage of the dog like hey bro you just sit here

and say fighter pilot stuff eventually this will work out and edit it we'll get it in post and that's like what the fuck do we have we don't have a store like and so you can't but through editing you get shots of do I think Peter Cushing was like shooting the Death Star

attack scene it looks like for sure they're taking some shots of him from the Leah interrogation scene where he's standing by Vader and just having it so that they appear to be looking contemplatively at like status updates as the the battle is going on. We get cuts to the rebel base and people like sort of updating the plot charts on the walls. And them getting increasingly convinced that they're about to watch this entire gamble fail. As the fighters being taken off the board, Leo looks at Dadaana.

And I love to look that passes between them that like this guy might be the close. the thing the family she has left and he just like puts his arm on a shoulder like they are it's dawning on them that like

oh we're not going to get out of this like this is the like literally our plan is going down the flames right now and it's really eerie when after red leader

and the first wave of X-Wings go and they take the shot and they miss and then they get wiped out the silence as like Luke, Wedge and Biggs realized they're the last the last guys left

of these two squadrons that went out and they begin the attack run and the other thing is can you imagine I can't imagine anything scarier the people back at base

yeah they know things are like they're fucked we can't run away from here and then the fucking kid that Leah showed up, give him an X-wing. The kid is like,

I'm going to turn off this computer. Hey, buddy. Our wives are at stake. You need to make this shot. Yeah, don't worry. I got this. I picked up on something I don't know that I'd actually noticed before

throughout this, two things, which is, I think it might not just be, use the force, the force is going to guide you. I don't think their fucking computers worked. Throughout this sequence, there are a number of times where I want to say Biggs at one point is like, oh, I can't see the vent.

I can only, my instruments aren't picking up the vent. They just see the tower. And then there's a number of times where Luke, who again is like third string, right? He's like the third person who's supposed to do this bombing run where he can't sense the incoming Thai fighters. He can't, like, his stuff is like off. Like he's like missing his computers are not functioning the way they're supposed to function in order for him to hit that shot They have scopes That's right

But they're starting to do visual target acquisition because they have no idea where the tie fighters coming in from and the whole sense is like them Like looking around increasingly frantic and Art2 gets shot Art2 gets blown up right? So he's just using his in-flight like the hardwired equipment he doesn't have Artutel to lean on here None of this is me being like and that's why like he could have shot it without the force. Like that's not what I'm saying. But I think again,

when you think about the force is like part of the story structure, it's there because I don't know that the rebels had good gear. Like, they are a ragtag group with tossed together fighters and they're not ready to hit this stuff, you know? Which I think is neat. It's cool that he would have missed.

Like, obviously he would have missed. That's what the story is about. I know this. But I don't know that any of the, them, I don't know that even the, they don't have the gear they need to make this hit. You know, maybe the Empire could have actually shot this shot with the Thai fighters on board stuff or whatever. Or maybe the Y wings could have actually made it if the Y wings, which are bombers, could have

actually gotten in position to take the shot. But it wasn't the Y wings shooting. It was an X-wing and then another X-wing, right? So, yeah. The Y-Wing is even make it to a, like they get in the trench. I think they get in the trench. They turn on their targeting computers. And then I think that they get.

Vader gets like on them and wipes them out like instantly. And then red leader goes in with what's left of his squad, of his element. They get caught. And here's the other thing. Vader buzz saws through the other rebel fighters. This is like, again, the Vader will see in Rogue 1. Like this is very like Anakin. Like this dude's a killing machine.

Well, that's one of my great pieces of the Kismet here. Because if Lucas didn't know who he was, what's the one thing we know about Anakin Skywalker, he's a great fighter pilot. He was the best fighter pilot in the galaxy. And we get Vader as a great fighter pilot here. So even if he didn't know, it rhymes, it already is set up to rhyme, you know, even though it wasn't intentional. And then Vader can't take the shot. Like it is like this time.

And part of it is to the force element of it where Vader has like tried to make this case that like Obi-Wan is here. Again, like the force is still with us. It is still driving action that, like, Vader becomes aware that this last rebel pilot, it's eluding him in a way the others weren't. And you see him starting to futz with his targeting data, right? Yeah. He's on, he's working knobs.

He's like an F1 driver. Like, he's now, now he's not just, like, piloting the tie fighter. He's, like, screwing with, like, targeting computer stuff, trying to get a fix on this kid. Because here's the funny thing. In the video games, they're like World War II planes that like you just put the machine gun,

you put the crosshairs over the fighter, you take the shot. Here, nobody hits anything unless they got a targeting solution. Even Vader is waiting until he gets like tone. And part of it is, cinematically lock in tone is cool. Like we creates a bit of drama,

having someone fight to get a lock on target. but it is just kind of funny that suddenly Vader can't get that targeting on Luke. And it's a thing you can read back into on some level, does he even want to? Had no problem just like wiping out all the other rebel ships. The last one, he's making a meal out of it. All he has to do is hold on the trigger and you know it's going to at least jack up Luke's, like, pilot. He shoots R2. But in that final run, right?

Because he shoots R2 earlier in that sequence, right? Or am I wrong? He wings his own body. He wings him. He doesn't kill Art 2. He's trying to kill Art 2. His wedding photos are on there. Hmm.

Oh, God. No. Hey, Artu, do you have any information about this Darth Vader guy? Maybe. What Darth Vader got to be? This is like when he was trying to know selfie. Like, what do you mean? And there was a little holographic lady.

I don't know what you're talking about. God. Yeah, but he, yeah. Shoots the missiles. Yeah, wedges sent out of the trench run. Biggs dies. Bigs dies.

Rips dies. Rip. Rip to Biggs. And now Luke's about to get got. Crucially, in all this, the most pit, the guy who probably died maddest aboard the Death Star

is the junior officer comes up to Tarkin and is like, hey, so we've worked out what they're trying to do, we might have a little problem here. There is some danger to this. Maybe you want to evacuate, and we get the, in our moment of triumph, should have listened.

The biggest L in recorded history. Yeah, yeah. Well, you're not using your evacuation shuttle? All right, well, do you want me and the, Can I just... Me and the analysis gang or just gonna... We're just gonna hop on there

and just... We just have to check something in the evacuation. Actually, it's just a security check in the tunnel. We'll go out and we'll take a look at what's going on

from outside the Death Star and we'll let you know if there's any more problems. But yeah, we'll just take your ship. But again, like Tarkin's a dip shit. Like there's zero... Like at every turn over confident

kind of a dumbass. Yeah. Down to the last. And again, I, for some reason, I had remembered them actually almost

like powering up to get this shot off, but maybe that's a different, maybe that's a return of the Jedi or a, or something else thing. Aren't they starting to throw the levers? They're starting to throw the levers and stuff,

but we don't get the like, oh my God, the lasers are gathering to shoot. It's so crisp in my mind that that does happen. It does not happen. Are you sure? 100%.

They hit the buttons. They hit the buttons. That's Return of the Jedi. I think that's Return of the Jedi. Yeah. They're like, they're starting ignition and all of that, but he fires the, the proletopterpeadoes before they can start the, you know, in my mind, like the green lasers are all joining. And getting ready to form the big green laser, you know, doesn't happen. But the dudes of the big black helmets are at least like turning thousands of vials.

Yeah. They're hitting buttons and stuff. Yeah, 100%. They're getting ready to shoot. Until deployment. Yes. They have line of sight with Yavin, you know. Also, shout out to Han showing up and not killing Darth Vader.

He just kind of knocks him away. He pinballs him. This is what he shoots a different tie fighter and the other tie fighter bounces into Vader and Vader pinballs away, right? Yeah, yeah. Just in time to save Darth Vader from having to. come up with an excuse for why he didn't kill his son. He gets a medal for ganking, like, one guy, though. Yeah.

It's important. It is important, but like. They didn't see Wedge getting decorated for this. If you hit the buzzer beater, even if you just got subbed in as your only points of the game, they're still going to lift you on their shoulders. That's true. You know? This is the championship game. This is game seven.

It's actually not. Game seven is two movies away. But yeah. Yep. It's true. They made those medals. They're not going to give them out just because a bunch of people died. But they only made two. Chewy, you don't get one.

Sorry, bud. Oh, sorry. Like, your neck's super thick. So the ribbon, like, we just figured it'd be awkward and you wouldn't like it. I read somewhere that it is because it was awkward to shoot. I don't remember the source on this, but that he was too tall, so she couldn't

lift up over his head. She little. She little. He can't bend down. Shut up. I'm just saying what I read somewhere. I agree. Chewishy got in a medal. That would have been so endearing. He like kneels. Oh, he kneels. You know, kind of like squats down in front of her.

Yeah. And she giggles as she puts it over his head. I assume that it was probably like a risky maneuver with the headpiece that, you know, depending on where it lands, it could look like you're like kind of cutting his head off a little bit. Or again, look like you're leashing him. Sure. Not a great visual. No. True.

Looks like put a little dog collar on your wookie. Not a hell. And hey, Chubaka got his big moment in the holiday special. That's right. Where she sang the song of Star Wars to him and his family as they asked and projected. I can't believe the next thing that happens in the real world Star Wars after this is the holiday special. Oh, my God. It's so funny.

Oh, my God. You've watched this movie a year ago. You're like, I'm the biggest Star Wars fan in the world. I can't wait for the next one. Ooh, they're doing a holiday special I wonder if you know, Darth Vader will be there Oh my God

Find them before Christmas Or whatever the fuck he says He doesn't say that but you know Incredible That was so crazy They did that We have to ruin life day Yeah

And then the next time we see I guess we saw Kishik In Revenge of the Seff Because I was thinking the Force Unleashed, you know, where Vader goes to, honestly, because she looks a lot more like a holiday special and kills a bunch of people and kidnaps that little kid. Wow.

One day. I didn't know that's what happened in that one. So here's the thing. Force Unleashed, kind of a critical text to IMO versus... Really? Shadow's the Empire. Yeah, Shadow of the Empire is the opposite of a critical text. It's only critical if what you want to understand is the,

the multimedia moment of the late 90s. How do we turn this into a thing? How do we have something, you know, be a cross-media, transmedia production where there's a game and a comic and a novel and everything else? Important for that, but not really important for Star Wars, you know? We'll at least talk about what it is in depth after we do Empire because it's a post hoc mid-quil, a sequel that gets... added in between to other things.

So whereas Force Unleashed is late 2000s Xbox 360 at its most maximalist Star Wars. I'm reading the Steam description of Star Wars, the Force Unleashed TM Ultimate Sith edition. A game that will show gamers

the deepest, darkest side of this force in a story that puts them on a collision course with Luke Skywalker Why did I say? Skyworker Luke Skywalker himself that is who wrote that description they

We should play this maybe I've been saying this for quite some time I don't remember the game well but the cut scenes are very like there's good Star Wars in there but then again I am a I am a sucker for what if the movie Collateral Ross were romance? Well, it is

romance. It is romance. But what if it were more explicitly romance? Yeah. I should watch collateral. We should watch collateral. We did. Rob and I did watch collateral recently a few years ago. One of Austin's finest podcast. Thank you.

It's one of the greatest textual polls I've ever seen. I can't believe when we figured out what the fuck was going on in that scene. People should go listen. Where's that available? Is that behind the paywall? that's over at the Waypoint, uh, feed still. Okay, I wasn't sure if that was a Waypoint plus thing, or if those all got, if the dial

got turned. We just, you all should just re-upload it. Yeah, who's going to sue you? No one's going to give a shit. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of people not giving a shit, did anyone notice whose name was not in the credits? No. Kind of a big deal.

Kind of a major character, not in the credits by name. Did Alec Guinness, like, want his name? Alec Guinness is in there. Okay. Who? Jamesville Jones. James Earl Jones. That's right.

James Earl Jones's name is not in these credits. In this or in empire. He felt like his contribution wasn't significant enough to warrant it's in his inclusion. And then for the third one, he was like, yeah, okay. Let me, yeah. That's so. Someone needed to be in his quarter there. Like somebody needed in that production process to be like, no, you were part of this.

Where was his manager? like they didn't know right he thought it was like a cheap sci-fi movie you know what I mean advocate on it but that's what your manager and your agent is there to negotiate for you also just like the the thought of I don't know maybe this is you know podcast or artist of me but like to be involved in that process and feel like you didn't want someone who was in that process to be credited for that process is like blow it like somebody else in the room should have been like no man like you this happens a lot though like like actors with like especially like voice performances uh david hyde pierce asking his name be taken off hellboy uh because he didn't feel like

like his contribution to abe sapien wasn't it's so wild credited um edward norton decided to be uncredited in kingdom of heaven despite like being the thing that holds the entire movie together that's why i didn't know that was the case that's what yeah Yeah. That's wild. That movie's about that guy. I know he's not the protagonist, but like, he holds that movie together. His big scene is the entire point of the, like, character and faith and, yeah, no. Like, asks not to be credited.

So it's actors routinely make these sorts of decisions for, for, for odd reasons. And frequently not for, like, I'm ashamed of it or I don't take this seriously. just like moments where it's like I don't feel I own that performance or yeah they just pull back from it yeah well but what a fucking movie

what a movie and then it just ends by the way like it is blow the death star celebration on the ground metal scene out Han winked hon winks at Leah and Leah smiles

to herself because she's they're already in love and loop Luke doesn't clock it and thinks that like he's going to have a moment with her and it just doesn't happen. Is this you talking about this at the awards or at the medal ceremony? Yes. Yeah, yeah. She gives Han his medal. Leah gives Han his medal and he winks at her and she has this like coy smile to herself.

And then Luke is like super excited for his little metal moment. And she just puts it on him and immediately turns away. Yeah. It was never going to happen. Yeah. Unfortunately, the two people, not unfortunately, but the truth is the two people that Luke has the most chemistry with here are Biggs who's dead in a scene that wasn't in the movie. And then Han, where he gives Han the big hug when Han runs over. And Han shoves him in the face and like pushes him like, like you, like that.

And then Leah slides past Luke so she can. hug, hon. She knows what she wants already. She knows who she's here for. I wish they weren't related to the three of them could be together. Like, when they're all celebrating and hugging, the, like, group hug in that moment is so good. Yeah. The 1977, you know, Polly fan. Polly Arian.

Bob and Carol and Ted. Uh-huh. Yep. Yep. They're so mad when things shook out the way they shook out. I really thought this movie was going to be it was going to mainstream. I thought this movie was going to mainstream swinging. I can't believe, I can't believe

we got to stream movies and there wasn't a single key party. What the fuck? What the fuck? Star Wars. Movie over and movie not baiting you with a sequel. Nope. No.

This could be the end. You really can't have been. It could have been the end. It could have been the end of it. And that's the thing like, thinking back on this, like, you know, the comment you made last week,

Austin, where it's like, this is a movie that doesn't really have a sequel. And Empire has, its first assignment is to sort of sell us on this story needs to continue.

Yeah. You want it to continue. And they do, in fact, slot together in a way that's cohesive. And I think Empire is not as good as it is. Because it's been a

while and I love this movie and there's so much craft here but I'm still kind of in my head I'm like well Empire though was the like tightest like fat like best movie of that of that trilogy but I think the thing that is not deniable is if Empire is not as taught as it is it would feel like a letdown like maybe they shouldn't have done this maybe like Empire has to sell the idea that you want to more Star Wars. And it does. Because I think of it, I think of it was as slack as Return of the Jedi is. Going back to tattooing immediately, seeing old stuff immediately, just kind of spinning

its wheels for, for an hour. Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't, wouldn't work. Well, you know, I think it's worth thinking about it in context. And we should probably wrap up here. And we can have, we maybe have more of this conversation later. But in 1970s, in the late 70s, and in the early,

80s or through the 80s and you think about film series, many of them don't go as well as Star Wars does. You get into Jaws 4 or whatever, right? Like you get into another one of these schlocky tie-in, you know, you're going to go see the next one because you saw the previous one. We're not quite at the summer blockbuster mega franchise yet. Right. We're not into the, you know.

Star Trek motion picture wasn't for two more years. That's right. Exactly. Yes. And we're what? We're probably two decades into, I guess, I guess just now, basically two decades into Bond movies. And those are loosely, those aren't connected in the way. There's some, there's a little bit of continuity in the first few.

And then it's just kind of like Bond goes on another adventure. You could have imagined that that was what was going to happen to these, right? not there's going to be another big one and then there's going to be a close to the trilogy. What are the big trilogies at this point? Yeah, I was actually like kind of having this conversation over the holidays with my brother and my mom because we were like, when you grew up in the 70s, how did you even watch movies that you liked again? Like, how did you have that sort of structure of like, I'm going to see the sequel to this thing because I've been exposed to it over and over again.

And, like, yeah, because, I mean, the VHS wasn't developed until the 70s anyway. So it's, I guess you had other forms of at-home entertainment, but they were, they were cut off. Well, and you did have, they had like the third run theater that would just like be showing worn out prints for, for ages. But no, I'm thinking like, they made a sequel to Yombo, Sanjuro, right? Sanjuro, yep. There ain't no third movie. There's not a third one. You've Godfather 2 by now, but there's no Godfather 3 yet.

Yeah. Right? And again, Godfather 2 made basically under protest. It's not like the core creatives were eager to go in that direction. Indiana Jones hasn't kicked off. Nope. Back to the future hasn't happened yet. Yeah.

And again, you're going to end up having what you have as like horror films or you have the serial film from the mid-century, right? where, like, there's 30 of them, you know? Well, and I feel like, I do feel like maybe Japan is one of the places where you do see it a little more ambitious. Like, it's easy to think the Zatuichi movies are, like, a serial. They're not, like, each Zatouichi, like, installment is closer to a movie than you might imagine.

So, like, but there's so many of those that it doesn't quite, it doesn't quite map. Yeah, there's so many is the thing, right? What year is Rambo? Great question. Rambo first blood. Let's see. That's 72, and then the next one's not till...

Those are the novels in a second. It's 82, 85, 88. And then, so even there, we haven't hit that yet. You know? I'm looking through now. What is Rocky 2? What is Rocky 2? Great question.

79. And Rocky 3 is 82. So that's... Okay, so Rocky and Star Wars are closer to the, like... Yeah. Hey, this thing has some traction. Let's go. But then Rocky does the thing.

With respect to later Rocky entries, Rocky 5 is when it's really bad? Hang on. Hang on. When did they kill Apollo? Is that four? Four. That's four, right? Because Dolph Longwood kills him, right?

Ivan Drago kills him. Yeah. So five is, but five is bad. Five. Five is the one where he fights. It's like a kid from the streets who's like an up-and-coming boxer. No one knows about Rocky 5. I don't remember.

Because then he comes back later. It makes Rocky Balboa. Like the last of the Rocky movies before Creed. Before Creed, yeah. And like Rocky Balboa is like sound. I heard actually it was kind of good, but like super bleak. Like. The wrestler, but Rocky.

Yeah. Not quite that bleak, maybe. I'm looking at other trilogies that have stuff in the 70s and it's a lot of, it's a lot of like Italian trilogies of movies I've never heard of here's one that I had completely forgotten had a third one at all Sydney Poitiers' Mr. Tibbs trilogy

The Heat of the Night, they call me Mr. Tibbs. I've seen those. I've never seen The Organization. A third. Have you all seen The Heat of the Night? People should watch Heat of the Night. Okay, it's a classic. I'm not.

It's a classic. And then there's a follow-up called they call me Mr. Tibbs. These are, these are, Sydney. It was a third movie. I had no idea there's a third movie called The Organization, which seems to be a conspiracy thriller. That's fun. But yeah, so in some ways we were seeing something really pick up, you know.

I think the back half of the last, you know, a few decades of the 20th century filled with trilogies and franchises. It turns out the industry loves to not have to reinvest in IP creation. Well, and this is the, I mean, it is arriving as the studio system is really like collapsing. And it is an instrument of the IPification of the industry. And so like this, it is going to go on and change things because, yeah, the model before that was, you sell a picture and then you sell another picture and you can't deal like you have your opening and that's it like you have your you have your you have your theatrical run and that's it um yeah and then star wars kind of is contributes to changes there so yeah um it'll be interesting to see that

and bear that in the context of empire uh as yeah it's kind of breaking new ground can't we let's do it probably two parts we'll say this up top Yeah, probably. And are we going to watch the... Well, we're going to read Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Oh, my God. Are we going to watch the 4K80 edition? That's my plan.

Okay. I think so. Same. But I just want to make sure for the listener out there. For the listener, yeah. That's my plan. But obviously, for sure of the Jedi, you've got to watch the special edition for the extra Java's Palace content.

I want to shout out a thing because, Rob, you were talking last time about, hey, how do people do this work? Like, how do they do these scans? Yeah. And friend of the show, Jake Rodkin, reached out with an episode of the Trash Compactor podcast called, the name of the episode is Rebel Scanners, preserving Star Wars with Rob of Team Negative 1 that gets into all of this stuff. I'll link that in the description.

I'll link that to you all now. I forgot about this until just a second ago. Otherwise, I would have linked it earlier. But I kind of had a whole history of these projects. And yes, like, it kind of went from, hey, what if we shot this stuff up close with the camera to what if we get industry grade big scanners and stuff like that. And I think apparently the thing that they use, the thing called the Sintel scanner, which is like a super expensive, big industrial film scanner now.

So that costs, you know, tens of thousands of dollars or whatever. Probably more. I'm looking at, the ones that I'm looking at right now are $35,000. Okay. So maybe that's not the one they're using. Maybe it is. I don't know. But, you know.

Because memory serves like these things. Like, it's a hard assignment, right? Because like, you needed to get the work done. a time frame that is not absurd. So it needs to run the film through and get like perfect frame by frame information. Yeah. Without having to shoot frame, digitize frame, digitize. So yeah, they're they're pricey equipment.

It's very cool though. All right, well, we will be back next time with episode five, The Empire Strikes Back. Until next time, please rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. And bearing in mind, always remember, Tarkin didn't have it like that.