A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 131: The Empire Strikes Back (4k80) Pt. 2

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

The heroes of the rebellion have fled Hoth and found themselves in new environs unlike any we've seen in Star Wars before. Bespin's Cloud City is the first real metropolis in the series, and while Yavin was covered in trees, it was nothing like the damp swamps of Dagobah, home to creepy crawlies of all sorts. As our heroes meet their respective contacts, one has to wonder, which of these new worlds is home to the more trustworthy sort of person? Trick question. You can't trust either of these motherfuckers. Show Notes Episode 1 Yoda Comparison Video How the Famous 'I Love You/I Know' Scene From 'The Empire Strikes Back' Really Came Together Hosted by Rob Zacny (robzacny.bsky.social) Featuring Alicia Acampora (ali-online.bsky.social), Austin Walker (austinwalker.bsky.social), and Natalie Watson (nataliewatson.bsky.social) Produced by Michael Hermes Music by Jack de Quidt (notquitereal.bsky.social Cover art by Xeecee (xeecee.bsky.social)

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Star Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zagney, joined by Ali Akamora, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. We are, as always, supported by your listeners via patreon.com slash civilized. So head over there if you'd like to support the show and get access to all our Q&A episodes and various other special editions. Today, we are concluding the Empire Strikes Back. You already know what happens here. Cool movie.

Yeah. Where we left things off, Luke was hanging on Dago. about to start his training. I believe they, Han Leia, the Falcon, the team Falcon had just escaped the, the worm.

Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And Vader was still burning through staff level officers as he searched stars and had just gotten on a,

on a forced conference call, basically with Palpatine, who was like, you heard about this kid, Luke Skywalker. and Vader is like, damn, that's crazy. Yeah. So, Luke begins his Jedi training

and it begins, it basically begins with a bang, right? Like, he's going to that dark side cave in no time. Yeah, we get a little bit from Yoda. He does some vine swinging, right? He does some vine swinging and we get what the dark side is, which we'll talk about at length when we come back around to this. But then he goes into the cave. Yep.

And he one-shots Vader. Woo! Big win! Uh-oh! We'll revisit that idea later. Meanwhile, the falcon chased through the asteroid field. Now it has to find a different way

to get out of this jam. Hyperdrive still isn't working. And so it sort of like the Minox, we saw a moment ago, it too Minox the Star Destroyer and just hangs out on the side of the big superstructure.

And as Han puts it, They're going to float away with the garbage when the fleet is about to go to hyperspace. And once that happens, Han has figured out just the place to go. Bespon time, baby. Where's Buddy Lando. He's definitely not still mad about that thing. Is surely ready to help out. But unbeknownst to Han, Vader has called in all kinds of cool-looking scum that are just ready for toy shelves near you.

and only one of them really matters Boba Fat flying the fire spray and he is he is waiting to see where the he is figured out what the falcon is up to and he sees the falcon

powering away from the Imperial fleet Yoda continues his inimitable teaching style with Luke do or do not there is no try which sounds fucking awesome, but the more you think about it, it's like, is that

good pedagogy? Is that good? It's like, go and pick up your X-wing, you dumb little bitch. But I can't. I just started here like two hours ago. And Yoda's like, well, that's why you suck. But we do get a magical moment of the puppet

sadly, residedly showing Luke the true power of the force and just pulling that thing out of the, out of the swamp. and schooling him about the very nature of the force. Luke also has a troubling vision. And again, in his inevitable way, Yoda's like, nah, you shouldn't do anything about that.

See your friends in trouble? Sit tight. That has worked out so well for Yoda in the past. I just want to... Biting my tongue until we get there. Luke... overrules their objections. He has to go help them,

especially because they can't actually see the future for sure. It's always in motion. Obi-Wan is super bummed about this. That boy was our last hope, he says. But Yoda, looking rather circumspect, just acknowledges there is another. They got, for Yoda, they have yet to reveal the River card in this game they're playing.

over on Cloud City the greeting seems to be going pretty well you know again it's it's it's Leah's weak to be sexually harassed by everyone but this time it has sort of a new cast from from Lando Calrissian a cape and a lot of pomade

given human form and he is he's flirting relentlessly with Leah but also wants to show off to his old buddy how much he's got it made with his cool 80s 80s pad his his old city has the vibe of a really cool pad

but he's also sold Han out he turns them over to to Vader Vader starts on torture not like fake torture like we saw with the little like droid coming in to interrogate Leah but actually

appeared just get her like gussied up for Luke and Hans arrival later in that movie no this time it's like hey I got something that has like a bunch of hot calipraise on the front of it. We're just going to lower Han into it and we'll just see what happens. By the way, I don't even have questions. This is Hans. This is Hans. They didn't even ask me questions. This is just, this is just Vader in it for the love of the game. Lando, having second thoughts, regretting what he's, what he's gotten himself into.

Luke arrives in the city after they have frozen Han carbonite just to see whether it's feasible because that's the plan for how they're going to transport Luke around. Awesome sword fight. Luke learned some uncomfortable information about the version of events he's been given. He also gets his hand chopped off, but that's kind of his fault because he didn't really know what to do with the new combo that Vader was showing. Like maybe if you trained a little harder, you could have done something with all that telekinesis they were throwing at you.

Theota's try and teach you about that. And he was like, I can't. Well, now there's a cost for that. He needed, like, one more upgrade in his skill tree to be able to save, save in that scenario. But if he killed, like, one more AT-A-T, he would have, like, got the points. Yeah, totally. Could have gotten control of those flying. Like three more handstands would have done it, I think.

Yeah. So Luke gets worked pretty hard, but rather than join Vader when Vader makes the offer to team up and take down the empire and rule the galaxy, his father and son. Luke tosses himself into a bottomless pit. It's not bottomless. It leads him down to a series of pneumatic tubes, basically. And just when he thinks he might be safe, it turns out there's a trapdoor underneath one.

of them and he gets dropped out into what looks like aerial antennas basically, but they're upside down hanging from the bottom of Cloud City. While all this is going on, Lando reveals that he's also had a little secret plan. He has his friend Lobot start the revolution in Bestman as the Bessman rent-a-cops rise up against the Empire Security Forces. And then they try to rescue Han. They fail. They just miss him.

They're this close. But they do regain access to the, to the Millennium Falcon. And they're able to rescue Luke from the bottom of the city. And then they fly off to rejoin the Rebel Fleet on the edges of the galaxy. Luke gets fitted with a new hand. And Lando and Chewy are headed off to rescue Han as the film ends. Empire Strikes back right there. That's the movie

As good as the first half was Yeah There's so much good stuff in the second half So much good stuff in the second half It's part of why I remember last time I was like In my memory I'm like oh Hoth goes on forever Because all the cool stuff is in the back half

And I was surprised at myself Because I was like wait no this stuff is all good Yeah but the back half of Empire Strikes Back is incredible So I know why I had that feeling Even though that feeling is wrong You know Totally

Agreed. You want to start on Degaba? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. So, I think some of it is, like my initial impression

is like, again, the vine swinging all this. My suspicion is none of that matters. It is just that Yoda needs to push this kid to the point of just like exhaustion where he's about to like have his brain

shut down to get Luke to the place where he can, where he can, actually do what Yoda's talking about, which is just like your strength isn't come from the body. You have none of that left. You can only connect to the force now if you're going to do anything. And all this other stuff is just trapping is to push him to this point

of moving away from the crude matter, as Yoda puts it, and touching into the metaphysical. Yeah. Which is, I think, the heart of the, you know, this is not in defensive. There is no try. But I do think that you've just said, you've just said what Yoda is trying to say there in more words, but better, more nuanced, clearer words maybe, right? Which is like, the force can let you do anything.

It does not matter the amount of effort you put into it. Do you believe it will happen because the force can do it? The force can do it. And if you do it, the force will do it for you. But if you try to do it, in the trying, you are insisting on the crude matter and not trusting in the power of the force, right? And so then you're not going to do it. There's only do or do not.

And the challenge of being a Jedi and mastering the force, the two challenges are, one, belief in your capacity to channel this thing through you. And two, and this is where it gets tricky a little bit, is not relying on a emotions like fear and anger and aggression to substitute in for belief, right? Because those things will make you go, yeah, of course I can do this. Fuck that guy. I can win this fight. Fuck that guy.

And that is per Yoda, easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you, it will, as a ditto he wants apprentice, right? quicker, easier, more seductive. This is the first time we're learning really about the dark side. And Yoda says that a Jedi is at peace. A Jedi is passive. A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense.

Never for attack, says Yoda. Well, there's limits to that. I think there's another part before we get into too deep into the dark side stuff, just more on kind of the training itself. another part of it that occurred to me while watching this time around is is developing like a I think it kind of comes through in what you said just now Austin about passivity of just trusting Yoda that like even if these handstands and vine climbing and those kinds of things aren't obviously resulting in, you know, his power up or his next, you know, skill upgrade or

whatever, that there's almost like a discipline to the obedience there that I think is trying to get at a sense of trust in the master, like trying to bring Luke to trust that the advice. in the, like, the teachings that Yoda will give him will help him connect further to the force, will help him to become a better Jedi. There's, like, something about just, like, not thinking about it so much, not thinking, like, how is this going to help me? How is this going to make me a better Jedi? And just, that's the part of it that's, like, just do to me as well. It's not like, as long as you just do these things. it's, I, I almost look at it like as this kind of domino effect where like as, as Luke is able to kind of

go through these motions with the foundation of trusting in his master that that sort of passivity will help him become a better vessel for using the force or for conducting the force itself because there's like, I almost look at Yoda himself as like a similar kind of pass through, or Yoda's teachings as a similar pass through where it's like if you can just let Yoda's teachings flow through you and you just do them, like the force will kind of operate in a similar way

where it will just, you will just do it because it's like the channel is there, the vessel is there. But Luke is so focused on what are the results I'm going to get from this so that I can become the better Jedi so that I can save my friends so that I can destroy Darth Vader

so that there's all of the kind of consequence in his head that he's holding all the time that he isn't acting as a conductor. He's acting, he's like obsessed with the sort of cause and effect and I feel like that's sort of, that's a part of the, the, uh,

just like the, there is, no try to me. Right. And in these kind of initial training. Yeah. What you're hitting on is like a classic martial arts and athletics and any sort of like deep skill training thing where you're like, okay, we're going to do this drill a thousand times until you just do this thing. You're not thinking about it anymore. You're just doing it. But then it's also this sort of like this particular vision of a spiritual

connection to a force that is flowing through you and doing it. It's not you're not, you're not training your instincts, you're untraining your, your instinctual doubt or something, right? That's, that I think is probably the more, the most generous way of reading some of this stuff. And reading it how it actually is arranged on the page and in the movie versus jumping to, and we'll come back around on the dark side of, jumping to what my initial reading was historically, which I'll come back to in a second. Rob, it looked like you had a thought here. The other thing that occurred to me while I was watching this is there's something else in the water around this time in the world of filmmaking, which is you've got more interpretations of what it means to act or what constitutes good performance.

And famously you have the method movement cropping up around here. I don't know when Stanislavski created that. But Yoda in particular here, something that it reminded me of was, I mean it was Robert Brasson, the French director, would famously, like, drive actors absolutely insane because he would keep shooting scenes and telling them, like, do less, do less. You're still acting. You're still, I can still see you acting. And what he would try to get at is, like, on set, you would have people just hit. this point with a with a take where it's like they're just completely on autopilot like they don't know they don't know what he wants they don't know and they just go through the scene but somewhere in there he's like there like the pure unadorned performance of this character not an actor playing the character but just like not trying to show off what an actor they are yeah just like all of his left is performance now is that by all accounts like also deeply brutal to cast and true, absolutely.

Like, it is sort of the, it is sort of the mountain mystic martial arts sensei version of this, where it's like, and we're all going to lose our minds as we try to do this. Michael Mann apparently does this a little bit too. If you watch the, um, some of the special features on collateral,

which comes up here, a shocking amount. Um, you know, one of, one of the actors, God, I can't remember his name, but the guy plays the Cobb. He's a famous actor. I also plays Hulk. Why is his name slipping?

Oh. Also who? Mark Ruffalo? Yeah, Mark Ruffalo. Oh, yeah. He describes, he describes, like, the effect of this is, like, at a certain point, you're just like, what the fuck does he want? Yeah.

What the fuck is this guy fishing around for? This is famously how Stanley Kubrick directed Tom Cruise on Eyes Wide Shut, like, would make him do, made him do like a hundred takes of him just like walking through a doorway because he wanted him to drop like the, you know, Tom Cruise of 1999, this like mega star. It's, it's, I think, yeah, you're, you're touching on something interesting here, Rob, of like, a, a sort of, like, creative philosophy that was maybe blossoming and becoming popularized at this time in filmmaking. It's probably what's saying. Another touchstone here that we know Lucas had. And one that I think I've done you know, my best for years to de-emphasize, but you have to recognize that it was real is Joseph

Campbell's hero with a thousand faces. Part of that, the center of that is something that was emerging in mid-century psychology and parapsychology, which is ego death or kind of the psychic death of the false self, the replacement of the true self, that's in Hero with a thousand faces, right? And it's also in a lot of other kind of emerging mysticism, you know, Western takes on Eastern philosophy, etc.

And that's, that's, you know, you have to let go of the self you brought in here and you have to become this other thing. There's a, I think that it is well-trod ground to read these stories in that way, which doesn't mean that those readings are not useful or interesting.

It's just that I'm not super interested in doing them because other people have been doing them for 40 years. But here is a place where that ego death is the thing that's happening or that is the thing that Yoda is trying to make happen in Luke. To the degree, Natalie, you were just kind of talking with this. The classic

like, I'm going to run you ragged. I'm going to make you like sweat yourself out. I'm going to like break you down to this thing, which is, you know, that's as much whiplash as it is anything, you know, like it is that style of, I'm going to coach you down until you're nothing, which is emotionally manipulative and abusive, but does have, it's other, there's other methods to get to that idea that I think, that we definitely are seeing it here. And I think it starts to make some of the stuff that I've often dismissed or felt

was self-contradictory, less self-contradictory. I think a lot about, you know, a minute ago, Yoda was like, you will, you will be, you will be afraid. Because Luke was like, I'm not afraid. And Yoda's like, you will be. And then a scene later, Yoda is like, don't be afraid. But you just said, don't be, you just said, you know, you're going to be afraid. He's going to be afraid. Yeah.

But what he actually says here is not don't be afraid. What he says is like, be leaning on your fear. You're going to have fear. But don't draw power. from fear. Draw power from the force, which is the absence of fear, which is passivity, et cetera. You know, quiet the fear. You're going to have it, but try to work to quiet it, not never have it.

It's part of why I think some of the, like, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate stuff from the prequels ends up missing, whereas I think some of this stuff is clearer in that way, you know, having actually now returned and watched it. Yeah, I think I had not been generous to Empire Strikes Back Yoda in my memory. Well, I think the funny thing, but here's what Empire Strikes Back Yoda has going for him. He's in a place crackling with genuine mystical energy. The thing Anakin never gets, he's a divine vision, really, of what his, like, what, like, well, Mortis, he gets one. He gets prophecies of what's going to happen to his, like, mom and sotcher.

But he does not get such a pointed warning from the force, from the depths of his subconscious. Which, that's the other interpretation. I mean, yeah. Like, this is actually Luke already has it in him to not go throughout Anakin did. Because Luke goes into the dark side cave and it's this dreamlike, like the, the, the, the frame rate, the camera speed is all fucked up in the cave. It has this dreamlike quality.

Vader is there for some reason and Luke brings out his lightsaber, they cross swords, and then he clearly like enraged, delivers like a killing blow on Vader, cuts his head off, and boom, there's his face. And you can see that as either

the force is warning him like it's both telling him like there's a connection between you two, but then also this is a fate you're courting by like reaching into power that way and like striking with this in your heart. Or it is also that Luke on some level is a good enough person and introspective enough person that when he's brought into the vision cave and is served up with a projection of the horror movie his subconscious is playing all the time

it is an intuitive understanding that like the distance between him and Vader is not as great as he thought yeah I think that's interesting right the the

it's the dark side of cave right or what Yoda says is something like it's dark in there right or like there's the dark side has great power there or something but it doesn't reward him for giving in to his aggression. It scares him out of it in a really interesting way, right? Like it presents him with something that's horrifying,

but he needs that in order to not become the bad version of himself. So maybe the Dark Side Cave has some points, you know. It's also an interest, it's also a maybe a rude pedagogy, but it is effective at making him take a second and stop about his who he ends up being in the end. Though maybe it also makes the fear of Vader and the fear stronger and maybe that's why it's the dark side cave, you know, the dark side cave.

I just want to say this. I started to say it last time, last episode, but like, here we are. Here are the stakes for the rest of Luke's journey. Will he master the force without falling to the dark side? I say that because a lot of what happens in the next movie, we've talked about this before and around Luke's appearance and Luke's actions. The rest of Luke's journey is, can he not become Darth Vader too?

Right? And even the end of this movie and the revelations therein are about, can he become someone who isn't Darth Vader again? And it is, it is, I think it is very funny how often that particular bit of what Star Wars is gets kind of lost in the shuffle of the way these stories get retold

inside of nerd culture. And partly, I think that's because of the franchisation of Star Wars because it has to be Luke becomes the powerful Jedi and gets stronger and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We need this guy to keep getting cooler and cooler and cooler in the fandom mind. But like all the great Luke stories are kind of still about it. Like the stuff with Luke in the Thron trilogy that we read

is also still, am I being the right type of Jedi? You know, am I giving into power? How do I project myself and this gift I have into the world in a way that makes it better? How do I, when, what type of authority should I take? All of that stuff continues to be the center of who Luke is, which I will get there one day, but it's like part of why I think I was not upset by the Last Jedi stuff because it's still that question again, you know? And I don't think that question has ever solved for a person.

I think that sort of question continues on through your life as you get different sorts of authority and power and stuff. So just want to underline like before this sequence, this is not what the story is about. Now it is what the story is about. Luke, what type of guy are you going to be? Not can you blow up the Death Star, you know? Yeah, it's so interesting that Luke's struggle with the force is so deemphasized, as you say, like in the fandom, in the kind of like greater cultural consciousness of who Luke Skywalker is.

hero. He's the perfect Jedi. He's he's the one who avenges his father. He's the one who, you know, um, you know, uh, like saves his father from, um, you know, or brings him back, right?

Right. To, to the light side or whatever. So much so that like, I think I'm also guilty of being someone that kind of de-emphasizes, that struggle as well where I'm like I'm never worried necessarily that Luke is going to fall I feel like I have such a confidence I mean even in watching especially in watching

in this movie it'll be interesting rewatching return of the Jedi next time and how present it is there but like what I just think of Luke and his journey from like a zoomed out perspective the struggle itself is not as not is not at the forefront. I think questions of what does it mean to be a Jedi or, you know, like how is a Jedi defined? What are, what are like what is the legacy of a Jedi?

What do you pass on to that? Like all those kinds of ontological questions I so much more associated. with Luke, maybe especially so given the sequel trilogy and thinking about, you know, what happens next and in him kind of becoming

ushering in the new generation of Jedi. But the struggle itself is like so not a struggle to me in a lot of ways. And so I'm curious if that will change on a return of the Jedi rewatch. But I

I feel myself, like, guilty of being one of those people. It's super easy to. Like, the end of the story is so good. Like, and Luke Skywalker is the guy he is. And it's like, well, no, like, he's also the guy who struggled to become that guy. He's defined by the overcoming, not for me, not just having overcome. I mean, what's about to happen in Luke's story is he's going to reach a point where he has to make a decision about whether he listens to the mystical. guy who can float around a spaceship or to his heart, which is telling him, I have to go save my

friends. And the story of Luke Skywalker, for me, one of the big things is like, how do I thread the needle between the demands of what this kind of religious duty I've been told is and what my heart tells me is right? And what is that, how does that require a change in what religious tradition is or what martial tradition is, you know, to fit the contexts that I'm in and the world that I'm in. He struggles with that's that's the struggle like he decides I have to go help my friends. And in that instance, he's not aligning himself with what the great Jedi who are teaching him or telling him.

He's aligning with what his heart believes. And so the part of the stakes are like, can he keep doing that without, especially with our context, without becoming Anakin Skywalker, you know, and that I think is you are the thing you do as a character as much as you are the place you end up. And so, and again, I think so many of my favorite Luke stories are interested in that stuff and not coming aboard the spaceship in the Mandalorian season two and killing a bunch of robots or death troopers or whatever. He also can do that stuff. I'm not saying he's not a badass, you know, by the end of this story. But it's him being sad on his rooftop at the beginning of the first Thrawn book.

It's him meeting Jerush. Jerush. is that his name? Seaboth, whatever his name is. The closing. Jeroos? Sabayath. Sabayath. Yeah. And be like, oh, shit, did I have the wrong idea about, am I being the wrong way in the world?

That to me, Luke is the learner. Luke is learning all the time. He's the one who wants to figure stuff out and figure out what his place is. And that is so central to who he is in all these movies. Yeah. I think it's something about like the prequels that sort of Mars. that opinion of his stakes and like his choices right like i'm i'm definitely in the like natalie school year of like when i think of luke skywalker it's like the good things about him are his heart

and when you look back like you know us watching the first movie and being like it is so sad that obi won says this stuff to him is something people did not have context for when they first saw it so like you know it it it is hard to watch this movie and ever think like oh he's He should have listened to Yoda then because it feels like knowing how much the Jedi as like a society, as a culture failed initially. Luke being able to say, no, I care about my friends more than I care about this. And I know that it's dangerous, but I want to go do this. And like him going against Yoda's advice feels like a victory for me because I think that Yoda's advice is bad. Yeah, yeah.

So it's like— I'm not saying it is good advice even. you know, just to be clear. I just think that it's like, it's one of those things that like the prequels really touches and can't,

like something as you can separate but with this, it's just like, oh, I believe that Luke is able to make the right decision more than these other characters who have all of this history

attached to what they're saying. Right. Well, it's so funny too, because in a lot of ways the second installment, right, everything goes bad.

Like everyone, everyone fails. But the first time I watched it, I never really felt like, Luke had failed per se. He hadn't won. He hadn't prevailed. Right.

But I never came out of it. Part of it as a kid, you're like, he still took action. You needed to do that. Your friends were in trouble and like you had to go laser sword fight Vader. I didn't fully understand what Yoda's trying to, like I didn't fully understand what Yoda's trying to teach Luke, really. And that sort of came later. But it's interesting that, you know, we revisit this in Return of the Joint. Jedi when Luke comes back to Yoda, Yoda's seen enough. He's like, no more of I to teach you,

right? That, like, Luke quit his training early, but Yoda still feels his job is complete. It's not that he is dying. He's dying because there is nothing more for him to do. Like, Luke is now as close to finished as can be as a product, and he's got to, like, now it's, now it's on him. But ultimately, Luke goes against Yoda and still gets what Yoda felt like he needed to pick up. He goes through a challenge. I think this is something else. It's so easy to look at these things like, oh, like, the, you know, it's common enough, but we, you know, the way it comes up a lot of times in like the Christian sense, like the temptation of Christ, where, you know, you're going, you're going to have that moment

where you're tested. Well, Luke has multiple moments like that, right? You know, know, his temptation is not here on Besp, but that's one, that's one moment where he's ambushed with this new information, and then he's, he's tempted by Vader. And he rejects that, chooses self-annihilation, rather than joining forces with that. And then he doesn't, you know, he has every reason to strike down Vader in a fit of rage and, you know, aboard the second Death Star, doesn't, doesn't do that either. But it's, the temptations are, are consistent. they're always cropping up. Again, like, the more we go with this project,

the more I start to think, like, in a lot of the details, Ryan Johnson was on the money about a lot of this stuff, right? Like, Luke's fears overwhelm him when he's dealing with young Ben Solo. You know, he, this time he does, you know, he fails it, but he doesn't even know to what degree he failed it.

It is just his heart was uncertain and impure. And what was in his heart, what was going to happen at that moment, both he and Ben, sort of see this like moment, this shatterpoint really, right? This moment that contain everything in their relationship and they both flee from it. Yeah. And set all this catastrophe in motion.

And it comes from a similar place, right, which is fear for those he cares about, for fear for his other students, fear for Han and Leah, fear for Ben himself. And he's like, do I have to do something in this moment? I'm hesitating. I don't know, but I'm ready to do something. Again, one day we'll talk about that movie at length. And I'm glad we have this context now to do it. Because I do think when you see Luke as the sort of like eternal, you know,

learner, the eternal struggler, the eternal, like, that draw between I need to do what my heart says, the compassion for others. And the knowledge that such compassion can lead you astray or put your friends, maybe not directly in danger, but limit how you can help them or help you help you achieve things long term. that is a recurring thing in his life. It's not just something. You know, it's not, if he had been home when the stormtroopers came, do stuff go,

does stuff, something go different for Owen and Peru? I don't know, maybe not. Maybe Luke doesn't help them win that fight. But, like, I'm sure that's a thing that is in his mind as he considers all this stuff. Like, where do I need to be to help my friends? Where do I need to be to become the person who can help the galaxy? Those feel like they're in conflict sometimes. But, yes, the good thing that is.

makes him a hero is that he can synthesize those two things and become the person he needs to be, but that's not the only thing he is. He is the synthesis. He's the active synthesis, not just the synthesized product, right? So, stuff's cool. Last thing I want to get to here is we talked about how good puppet is and all that, but and yet, I think as Yoda finds a different gear here, I want to revisit it because like, well, and also, there's something.

something has gone wrong between this and the making of the prequels. I can't, like, Yoda's conversation where he explains the dark side has a natural kind of delivery. It's a thoughtful response. It's not a pat answer. It's not a bromide. The way the puppet is performed and then the way Frank Oz delivers your weapons, you will not need them. Only, you know, only what you bring with you. is what he needs, you know,

is what he's going to take into the, that's all that awaits him in the cave. Yeah. The delivery of these things, the way these moments are played out, and then the scene that follows, where Yoda puts him to the test and has that moment of like,

holy shit he's doing it. And you see the pride and wonder that like the kid is getting it. He's a natural. Like all that raw potential is being delivered on. And then his crushing sadness as he realizes like, the kid is,

there yet. He's not, this is not the second coming of Ben. It's not the second coming of Anakin. You know, this is, he is, he is not ready. Yeah. Um, and they have not made as much progress at, as he'd hoped. But the way all these things play out and the conversations they have, you know, part of it is, Lucas has so much more control over the prequels and is so much more attuned to them. And so like, his deficiencies as a writer show up there. a lot more, but also I'm not sure he it's a strange thing

so you watch American graffiti well I guess you'd argue what has happened to see no longer has his wife editing for him like that a major part of the creative like partnerships that hold him aloft at the original trilogy have kind of fallen away

plus the sum effect of like 30 years of being you know I don't know if he was a billionaire throughout this period, but worth a vast fortune, you know, for years. But like,

I can't think of a single moment. And it's not just that, yes, the prequel Yoda is going to fail. And there's, it's a, more frustrating character. But I never get a sense.

The scenes on Dagoa here always feel like they are breathing. It's such a natural environment, but also there's so much in the pauses. Yoda's breaths themselves are like acted out. The puppet has this like always in motion, always sort of meditating, always sort of reacting and sort of taking things in.

And my, the sum effect of the prequels is there's never moments where characters sit like that on the stage and like talk or actually communicate or hear each other the way that happens here. And again, like a lot of it's Frank Oz, it's also Mark Hamill being really good at both you can see his hunger for this knowledge and training but also his petulance his disappointment in himself but his defensiveness around that

and then like his wonder when he realized that like yo Yoda's not these aren't just words Yoda can do all of this yeah and there's just nothing in the prequels that that lives up to this. And it's not because it's a different story, but it's like, it's just the tenor of it, the pacing, the ability of the characters to feel like they inhabit the same space and are talking. It never feels like that. Yeah. To me, it feels like the prequels are subject to just the blockbustery nature or like expectation that they were meant to achieve. And the idea that like any one of these characters is essentially an action star and should be you know printed on a Pepsi can and also have an action figure made of them and like just that they are,

that they exist in the commercialization of themselves like arguably more than they exist in the movie itself I think like that any kind of like I think of moments in the prequels and I think of like acting moments or character moments and they're moments that like feel still commercially palatable

if that makes sense like that you could still pull them out and it be, you know, printed on, like a McDonald's box. Right. The fear leads to anger, happy meal. Like the... Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You know, I think my instinct is probably very basic, but it's like, Lucas isn't as good of a director. He didn't direct this. He didn't get the performances. He doesn't. We know from, we know from actress talking about this. He doesn't direct. acting well. He doesn't know how to get stuff from people. Not to come back to the acting as

metaphor, Yoda as director thing. But Yoda knows how to get something from Luke that Lucas couldn't get from Mark Hamel. And Lucas falls backwards into American graffiti where it's like, oh yeah, here's like two or three of like the defining actors of the generation like here. And I, you know, I guess what I would say about the prequels is like, I think that they are different movies. Like, I think that they are, um, they're doing something. narratively denser with with ideas, which is not a defense of them, but they are, they are like a different genre of science fiction in a real way, you know, they, they, no one is really going on a mystical journey in the prequels, you know, like they're going

through an institutional journey, you know, Anakin Skywalker goes to school, but he doesn't go to a mystical swamp where an old wizard teaches him how to move things with his mind. And that's, that's a different genre space. My big complaint is that the sequels don't find their own third. different gear to move in and end up just being the first gear again sort of mixed with the second one and like bump it but it's a bumper car so it's bouncing all over the place like I almost wish we had more mid first and second sequel movies but they were at least different they're in a third different subgenre of science fiction rob you're going to say something though about the prequels

well I was just going to say like they're operating in this different space but I do think it's still like there's just a basic challenge of like do you're doing directing actors together, and that is a major deficiency. I think that's also the element of, okay, so we killed Puppet Yoda. But they didn't. This is an important thing. Puppet Yoda is in the original version.

They reduced the reliance on Puppet Yoda. Totally, but sorry, they've since fully replaced Puppet Yoda in episode one. But when episode one comes out, Puppet Yoda is in there. And he looks like shit. He looks, they did lose the recipes. I'm agreeing with you that even when they had the puppet in episode one, something was wrong with it. If you go back and watch those scenes.

Yeah, I'll find a link for you. But, you know. Frank Oz lose it with like ability to or, or it's just a different team now. You know, you're now 30 years on from the height of the Henson led creature workshop. Yeah.

Which has always been like a story of like how you maintain the Muppets. And the creature workshop is an ongoing saga. Like the Seth Rogen thing, which is very like, it's been charming well regarded. But like, they replace. Kermit. And I don't think the Kermit they did is very good. They replaced it over the objections

that I played Kermit for the last like several outings for the Muppets who was decent. I think the Kermit they had is like it's a bad assignment because it's like hey, guess what? You're playing a character that literally everyone grew up hearing like literally everybody aged like 15 to 70. Everyone knows what this guy sounds like. Yeah. But check this video I just dropped. Jump to like 120 and look at just the way Yoda in the puppet form looks around the room. He doesn't look right. There's like

he's not just, it's not just like he looks different, which he does. I think they did not do a good job of de-aging Yoda in this de-aged Yoda puppet. Or jump to like 240 when he's talking to young Anakin. Like, he doesn't have the natural the thing you're talking about, like,

Degaba lives and breathes and it's in the way Frank Oz moves Yoda around. I don't know. I don't know. I have a theory. Go for it, please. Because he's gone all in on digital sets. Like, I think there's so much hedging around what the play of light is going to be in the space and so much like what even is the scene going to look like.

Right. That one key difference is that Dago is like a physical place that they are shooting and they are piping vapor onto the set and all this. But like, when they're looking at their dailies, they have at least some idea of what that's going to look like and this is the part of Lucas where he's like I'm a visionary

and my other passion is for changing filmmaking tech and immediately the thing that jumps out at me is like it's magic hour it's a sunset scene right both versions look like shit like neither version captures sunset very well

the most captureable thing on the medium of film. Like it is, you know, it's, it's tricky. The light is, the light is delicate, but like, we know how it looks and why people love it and why it looks so good. And it just, it's a whiff here. They, they, they, they kind of blow it. And maybe that's the, the element. I think if you look at, you know, about two years ago, Patrick had, for, I think it was for remap, we didn't interview with a digital effects artist who works on like Monarch legacy of monsters and his position is basically

one he's like everyone who's like oh it should all be practical he's like people don't know a practical or or CG assisted it is it's too hard like there's and I've since like come around to that like when you see things where it's like this was shot on location but then also completely digitally redone to remove things from the background like I can't see it with the naked eye You know, there's last stuff where I'm like, wow, that's, and that's location shooting, baby.

Up to a point, it's still, like, massively mediated. But, like, the dude's argument was fundamentally that digital effects artists, they can do anything and hit any quality bar given time and direction. Like, there's, like, you can do stuff with practical, you can do stuff with digital. Ultimately, it's like how much you're willing to invest. and how good the people you've got working on it, that's what it comes down to.

But I do kind of feel like when we talk about like the best digital characters to inhabit these spaces, like I think there's a reason people talk about like Andy Circus and Altonutic so much, right? That like they're there on the set doing mocap work.

But that has become the way that you get like a great creature performance now is you have, like a really good mocap specialist actor going in there and like having that authority as the performer to say like here's how I'm playing the scene

here's what my character's going to do and it's not here's a tennis ball the characters are going to react to and like we'll fill it in later that's so rough I mean I think I have another take on the difference between

prequel Yoda puppet Yoda and Empire Strikes Back puppet Yoda is that in prequel puppet Yoda, he's sitting in the chair like the whole time we see him. And I think so much of Yoda's characterization in Empire Strikes Back is like the way his body moves, like as he's like hobbling around and, you know,

digging in Luke's stuff and he picks up the ration And he's like and he's like flinging like there's so much body movement because at first I was just looking at the faces and I was like oh prequel Yoda had Botox because like the the the the the like it there's this strange thing happening where there's technically more articulation in prequel Yoda puppet face. But it comes off so much more stiff like. It feels like there's like a, like a steel mold underneath. You can feel kind of the, the robotics of it all underneath Yoda's face, whereas Yoda in Empire Strikes Back is so much squishier. Like he, like, he kind of like moves his lips more in like a, and he juts out his lip and like, and kind of scrunches his lip up sometimes. He doesn't have as much articulation in his forehead

but like he just feels like squish like you know which adds this kind of like expressiveness to the way he talks and I think that combined with his body is the body acting whereas Yoda sitting in the chair

is just like like Khole Yoda like literally like there is nothing going on there. And I, there's just, there's like this,

this, uh, uh, disconnect between his words and what he's saying, and the kind of robotic, uh, nature of the way he's saying it in his face.

I think that's, that's my take. That's a good take. I mean, like, just even look at the way the robe fits him in the prequel. It's not, I don't know.

Right. losing the recipes, man. In this case, the the, the, the, the, the, GGI is better. Yes, agreed. In my opinion, even though, but I think that is because it is a CGI

native production, you know, like, I think in a weird way, it's like, it, they would have had a better puppet if they also had more of a set. And you look at the pictures from the set of those movies, and it's ridiculous, right? Like, it's go stand in this big blue room. Yeah, totally.

now that we're done our what happened to Yoda saying yeah so Luke making the decision he gets the vision while he's doing handsstands let's just close up Dagoa yeah he's doing the handstands he gets the vision of his friends in pain suffering and he wants to go

and Yoda gives him the always in motion is the future but if you go you're not honoring their sacrifice like what your friends are fighting for you're going to cost them everything. And Luke is like, I can't just sit here and do nothing and he, he leaves. And God, damn, it's been a while seeing this movie.

Yeah. This stuff lands like a ton of hammers. Like his decision to leave and like Obi-Wan begging him not to. And Yoda just like resigning himself to it. And the play, like the moment when the X-Wing takes off. And there's that like plunge into darkness. Yeah. And then the arc lighting of the landing lights as he takes off, as Yoda says into the darkness, like, there is another.

Like, holy shit. That shit hits. That shit hits. It's so good. Yeah. And it's like, this is a place where I actually think that watching this was really benefited by having been in the Star Wars whole ourselves for the last six years or whatever. because when Yoda says like decide you must have how to serve them best

if you leave now help them you could but you would destroy all for which they have fought and suffered I mean I don't think that that's necessarily true I do think that's a guy who is like oh my God we're going to do it an Anakin again he's going to rush off he's going to kill some people and then the friends he loves are going to suffer because he

went off and became a different person than he was before Now, he is not thinking about maybe we should have sent someone to go check on the Schmeese Skywalker. Maybe we should have helped him when he came to us with those visions. But it's such a great illustration of a guy who's like, oh, my God, are you fucking kidding me? Again, the chosen one is going to run off because he saw a vision of someone he loves being hurt. And I don't think, again, I don't think his strategy with that is right. But I really felt like, ooh, juicy.

Like as much as I'm trying to do the naive watch, pretending to watch it for the first time, blah, blah, blah. This is a scene where I was like, it's way better if part of Obi- not better, but I love what thinking through Obi-Wan and Yoda's relationship to Anakin was what that changes about the tenor of this sequence.

It gives them different emotional stakes. I think both of those visions are really compelling. And, you know, I don't know. Like, Yoda's case here, I'll, here's what I'll give him. I think it's wild that he does basically say, yes, I'm saying you should let them die. Yes, that's what I'm saying.

I'm saying that there are things worse than having your friends get hurt or die than, then, you know, that that's better than you falling to the dark side and coming under the sway of Darth Vader, which is what I'm afraid is going to happen to you. right now, right? That's, it's wild that he at least says that fucking old school, you know, prequel Yoda just says don't think about your mom so much. Well, and like, it's true. I think what's cool here is like, they're both kind of right here. Like, Yoda's position is inarguable. Like, this is a trap. Right. And you're not ready. You're not going to win. No, there's a thing, like, a thing are, like, lines that live, live in my head.

but it's, you know, from the movie Gettysburg where, like, Longstreet is sort of Cassandra figure to Robert Ely's Agamemnon, who's hellbent on, like, I'm just going to win this war right here, right now. And there's this point where he's explaining, like, the enemy is here. We have to fight him. He's right in front of us.

If he's here tomorrow, we're going to fight him, and Longstreet looks at him as like, if he's still here tomorrow, it's because he wants to fight us here. And that is Luke, like, it's so evidently a trap that, like, their whole, your friends just for you. Like that is, that is why your friends are in danger is to produce this exact reaction.

And they're not doing this because they think it's 50-50 when you show up how it's going to go. They, like, it is, you know, to pull from the Stover book, right? It's a Jedi trap. Like, this is, like, it checks all the boxes, right? It's out of the way. It's a place that, like, the Empire doesn't really. care about, like, you are going into a killbox. And it's, they're probably right, but one of the things that makes Luke, Luke is, there's that bit of Han Solo with him, right? This is actually

very close to, don't tell me the odds. Like, Yoda's much more mystical about it, much wiser, much more powerful, but fundamentally, this is a, well, this doesn't seem smart. Like, what are you doing. You're going to get, you're going to get killed doing this. And what kind of ties Han and Luke together in this, in this way is like, RIP to the RIP to everyone else, but I'm different. I'm different. And they are. Yeah. Yeah. And if I don't act in this moment knowing or believing I could do it, then what, what you say am I? Right. I mean, this is like, this is Luke kind of saying back to him, you just told me there is no try. I'm going to go save my. my friends. I'm going to do it.

You know? And in a way like that is him embodying that in a way that Yoda can't conceive of. Of course, again, he doesn't do it in this moment. I guess he kind of saves Leah and Chewy, but Hans Faders kind of sealed.

Well, no, because remember Vader changes the deal at the end. Yeah, he wants to take. He decides he's going to take them both. He doesn't leave the, he walks back the bit where he's going to leave him with Lando. But Lando, but Luke

arriving isn't what enables Lando to derail that. That's true. Like everything that happens. Well, he distracts Darth Vader, though. He takes Darth Vader's attention away from... Let's get there, actually. Let's talk through whether the revolution

would have worked with or without Luke. Because I'm not actually... Yeah, you might be right. You might be right. But let's get there. Maybe we'll get there. But yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe he does do.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe you're right. Either way, though. It's filmmaking. This is some of the best photography. It's actually, from here, you're about to get some of the best photography in All Star Wars, just back to back to back to back.

It is ridiculous now the run this movie goes on. But first, we're going to cut back and we're going to see what our buddies aboard the Falcon are up to. What are buddies aboard the executor are up to? Which is you're trying to. I kind of love the one. guy in the Star Destroyer Bridge crew is just doing his job. And the other guy,

definitely the middle management layer, is like, hey, I want to talk to you about these bounty hunters. And my man is busy with like a Star Destroyer job. And it's like, no, man, I don't have a Star Destroyer job right now. I'm like one rank above you. I want to, I want to complain about these bounty hunters.

We don't need their scum. There's like, there's little things here that I've missed before where it's like, yeah. Yo, a lot of the empire guys are so clearly in the middle of doing a job. Yeah. And wild shit is happening around them, like, consistently. And you're just, like, and you just got to put your head, like, you're like, you're right.

Those, those bounty hunters, that's, that's, that's pretty, pretty annoying. I don't know what the empire's coming to. Anyway, I have to, kind of have to lock in now. Yeah. We're trying to do our jobs. Yeah. Yep. The last guy got fucking killed.

I don't know if you saw, but like, I need to lock in right now. My life depends on it. Yes. You should have brought headphones to work. You should have brought, hey, sorry, I'm, you know, I'm trying to get the thing done.

You know, I'm just tapping on this headphones. I'm just listening to Imperial March. Yeah. It's just being focused. Fired up. Yeah. How about these bounty hunters? What a crew.

What a gang. It's the boys. The thing that cracks me up is the EU that I grew up with was like every motherfucker shows up in the background. Needs to be the awesomest dude who ever lived with the coolest story. IG88 looks like somebody took a Mac like trash can PC and just like dropped on top of C. 3PO. Just like stuff 3PO's head in a garbage

can and then like put some optics on the side of the garbage can. It's like, I don't know, it's a kill droid. And people are like, whoa, that assassin droid looks fucking crazy. That's the toughest thing in the galaxy. And it's like, man, that's Hitchbot.

That's a bring up a thing that DLC would bring up a lot. They kill that thing with hammers in Philly. But you got that dude You got the big lizard guy You got the big lizard guy wrapped up in bandit And he's like I'll bet he's a badass

And you're gonna get a story about like Him finding love Which he can't feel except through A magic stripper The magic, yeah Stripper telepathy Yeah We've talked about Dengar before

We've talked about Dengar and Oh yes Yeah manoroo Yeah of course you don't understand it's because he didn't have any emotions and then she treats him love and then she plugs his brain into his USB stick on the back of his head and it's so beautiful because he's weirdes emotions see it's kind of good though so important it's good I mean are you telling you don't remember the part where he goes to rescue her

on best pin and the two star destroyers are like hey stop right there and he's he just like kills them instantly and as their bodies hit the floor he's like make me and it's like Bam, that's Dengar Roth. Dengar fucking rules, man. How have they not made? Basically, like, Dengar is the Tom Cruise character in collateral with a

rom-com. It's like, what if he and Max got together? Oh, that'd be great. Yeah. And that is... The problem is... The problem is... We instead got what? We got young, annoying Dengar in Clone Wars Boba Fett episodes.

Oh my God. The kid. Yeah, when he's the kid... kid and he's like the annoying one in the crew. It was a cool episode arc. It was the swoop race changed him. Right, of course. That's true. Han, the Han incident, right? Is that you sorry, people who were talking

about. We're talking about in tales of the bounty hunters. Yes. Yeah, we get Dengar's story, which is that everyone has connection to Han Solo. And his is that he used to race. It's sort of like the one who got away, Batman the series episode in a way, because it's like everyone's different story.

They're not all about trying to get Han Solo, but there's like, that is what connects all these bounty hunters. And in that story, is it Han Solo's finest moment when apparently in a swoop bike race, which is like the successor to pod racing, but like on fancy motorcycles, he cuts off Dengar and hits his afterburners literally into his face and like burns his, like melts his skull, basically. It has to be kept alive with like massive cybernetic reconstruction of his body. And like lots of parts of who Dengar was do not survive that process. And then Han is like, hey, man, it's just racing. Am I right? And that's what Dengar revisits again and again. It isn't the injury.

It's Han after the race being like, die mad about it, bro. Yeah. Wow. That's fucked. It is pretty fucked. I'm surprised it didn't show up in the solo movie. I really was hoping we'd get on solo as racing guy.

But none of these guys do anything. They looms so large. Yeah. They just hang. Well, Buba Fett does. He gets told no disintegrations. He gets told no disintegrations. There's a lot of material out there

about like, why did Boba Fett hit? And I would say the two big lead theories are one. He was a mailway action figure in 1979. a year before the movie came out. So kids have a strong association with if we get enough. I believe it was like a classic. If you get the other action figures, you can send in the like UPC symbols

from the back of the cardboard box. And if you got the whole set, you could send them in and get a Boba Fett figure. So he was like a reward for being, you know, Kenner action figure complete. I believe that's the case. I know he was a sendaway figure,

but I don't know though. I'm not 100% sure what you needed to send away. to get him, but I believe that's what it was. And then the other one is, Vader talks to him, and he has to, like, make requests. And then later, Boba Fett talks back to Darth Vader, and he doesn't get choked. And so

people were like, whoa, Boba Fett must be cool because he got to talk back to Darth Vader. He gets to tell Darth Vader that Hans Solo is, like, he's not worth anything to be dead. And so, therefore, he's a cool guy. But we know that everyone loves Boba Fett

because he was in the car in the holiday special. And everyone, that's a cool guy. That's the guy I love is the cartoon guy who tries to trick Chewy. I don't know. His armor is cool. That's the actual thing,

I think. He has cool armor. He's another guy with a mask. He's another guy where you, you think, what's he like under there? Y'all like samurai? Mm-hmm, exactly.

Because there is a little bit more of like the, like, it's a little more abstracted, but like, there's a silhouette that's like iconic samurai armor in some ways. You're right? Even though like the cloth leg, like the cloth pants coming to like a narrow, like that the taper is even kind of like that.

That's kind of fun. But he's the one who knows what Han's going to be up to. He waits for Han to figure this out. Don't apply physics Star Wars. Han says he's flying sublight speeds to, no, that doesn't happen. That would just break this whole thing apart. Don't worry about it.

The galaxy is different. Maybe they're in the system already, and they're going pretty fast. Oh, it's like the joint Hoth-Bespin system. Right. Yeah. Yeah, they're right. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably that.

Like, right, there are two systems, like, right next to each other. They're right next to it. They're right next to each other. They don't have to, you don't have to get this speed light. Or maybe they're there, maybe they're doing this trip for like a month, you know. And we just don't know. I mean, Luke does get a lot of training done. He does.

hand wave a lot of the stuff away, but he's much further along as a Jedi about the time he leaves, even though it's been like 30 minutes of screen time. Bespin. This place looks so cool, man. When they fly in, you get these so I want to emphasize this

because the 4K80 version has obviously the original matte paintings. I think the stuff in the special edition looks fine, but there's something about these original matte paintings of the city that really, really leans in to the sort of of like,

um, Raygun Gothic Art Deco architecture that just looks so cool. And I'd completely forgotten that this is what Bespin looks like. Um, again, it's the same architecture style in the, in the special editions with the CG that they're flying through and stuff.

I don't want to say that they changed it. But going back on watching this edition, I was like, oh, wow. Like, bestman kind of has a, you know, Flash Gordon energy to it,

uh, in terms of its like architecture. Also, a screenshot over. that you know what I'm talking about. All right. So, yeah, let's talk about these differences between the versions

because I would say in the 4K remastered special edition, the Cloud City stuff is just generally busier. And there's just more, like, the great sin of it is that, like, there's often these moments

where it's like, Lucas is just like, I need to have more stuff happening here. I see. And so you will have, it's less dramatic here when the Falcon lands. But a lot of the interstitial, like, transitions later in the Cloud City sequence, they've added cuts to street scenes in Cloud City that's super heavily, like, actors on a soundstage have been digitally, like, pasted into the scene, and they're all moving, and there's tons of, like, speeders flying around. And so it's generally busier than, uh, than sort of the, the mat painting look of Bestbin.

which is so arresting. Yeah, I think this stuff looks so good. And I'm not, you know, I think that it still has the identity of the city that it has. But it was really cool to go back and see some of this stuff. And like, it's, it hit me, you know what struck me big time about this was this is the first city city we see in Star Wars. We get most icely, which is, which is a city. I shouldn't say it's not. But it's the first one that has like the verticality.

It's the first one that has skyscrapers. It's the first one that feels like a dense metropolis. I think maybe appropriately or maybe not appropriately, but intentionally, there are a lot of people of color in this place, man. There's like, you look at Lando's Guard, it's like two black guys, an East Asian guy. You know, like there's, there's Latino people here. There are, there are Asian and South Asian people all through the hallways. It feels like it's supposed to be cosmopolitan, even though it's also positioned as being like a little on the,

periphery of imperial interest. We get that great line as as Han and Lando meet and like catch up as they're moving through the hallway. What he explains is that it's a mining colony that is so small

that the empire doesn't pay attention to them and it's not part of the mining guild and they are working with customers who quote, want to avoid drawing attention to themselves. Who are his customers? And also your Han, this should be the I'm in danger. Yeah, dude.

Like, because it is the, and it's the funny thing. I think it's partly like, and it feels like this way. It feels this way. Lando graduated to a different tier of crime. Like, these guys, like, started in a similar place. Yeah. But Han is still out there running jobs. And Lando has, like, moved into management.

he's moved into like going semi-legitimate. But man, that thing he lays out is I've gone from having no masters to having a lot of masters. Like there's nothing but vulnerability as he lays that out. Oh, the mining guild's going to hate you. Yep. The empire, we're safe from the empire as long as they don't notice us,

which is sure to be a stable, stable situation. And then, yeah, our customers don't want, They don't want to hear shit about anything. They want to be completely off book. I'm sure that I'm sure those are great people. And he says, I'm having labor problems, supply problems. He's like, he's living in modernity over here. You know what I mean?

This is a, he's a, he's a small businessman. He's trying to expand a little too quickly. I don't know. I mean, I guess he's, at the end of the day, his people stay and fight for him. So maybe he's, he's come to some good compromises. But he is not, this is not what we've seen anyone else. any of Star Wars have to deal with up until this point. And this is the, like,

Lando is the only character who appears to be things that he is not. In this entire original trilogy, he is the only character that, like, dissimulates. Everything we see about him is a projection. Like, this is why I think, if you lean too much into the courtly, like, sex pest Lando, right? well, that's him disarming home.

That is him, like, and Leah is suspicious of him. And so he presents, like, from the first, he's like, oh, you truly belong with us among the clouds. A money line. But he puts her hackles up, but also misdirects her. Like, she gets kind of hung up on the oiliness of Landau. But doesn't clock that he's already sold you out? He already has a gun to his head. That you think he's hatching a plot against you.

And you're kind of missing the fact that, like, it's already over. Like, the second they set foot on the station, it's done. We, while we bring up Landau being slimy and Leah, sorry, we have to go back just a moment. Because there is, uh, there's some important layout Han stuff during the escape. Han has put the ship on the side of the Star Destroyer. You said this in the intro, that he separates it when they dump the garbage before jumping to light speed.

And when that happens, she says, what's the exact line? Allie, do you have this exact line? Do you have some good ideas sometimes or something like that? Oh, yes. And she kisses him on the cheek.

And he has a, he is a great little smile. Yeah, I love them. It's good. So, yeah, that we get that right before we get Lando's bad one-liners. Which is important, right?

Because we had to like resolve, we had to get Leah and Han towards a point where you're like, oh, look, they've like, maybe they're working it out, maybe they're starting to admit what they feel for each other so that they can all be blown up by what happens. She says,

she says you do have your moments, not many, but you have them. It's still like, I'm not going to give you everything. I'm holding you, but like, but there's like an admission here. There's a, well, in her biography, this is the reader, I married him. Like this is the, but the other, there's something so effective here as well is, Landau is a late addition to this like, except for Palpatine, right? Like he's the last major character

we're gonna really meet who's gonna be with us till the end. And it's not gonna be that much screen time he really guessed. He's gonna do stuff here. He's gonna be part of the rescue of Jabba's Palace and then he's gonna do some stuff

during the Battle of Yavin. But you don't get that much time with him. But, man, do they think, sell the idea that he and Han go back. And then part of it is that there is that moment where again he's laying it on with a trowel with Leia.

And it looks like Harrison Ford's about to break. He just covers his face and he starts to crack up as, but also if he's not breaking, he's playing very well the notion of this is a guy you haven't seen in ages. Yeah. And you

kind of miss this piece of shit. Like it is cracking you up even though he's like aggressively and offensively macking on your girl. There's a part of you that's like, man, I miss watching this guy. I don't know if it's working, but I miss watching him like bust this character out.

To me, it's like a bit of the confidence in his, like that Lando poses no threat to what Han and Leah have going on. Like it's like, yeah, shoot your shot. Shoot your shot. See what happens. Like she's going to, you know, like. Yeah.

You don't know her. You don't know her like I do. She's going to, she's going to, you know, see how that goes. See how she responds. It's like there's, and I think there's also a bit of it that's like, I know you. You're a card player. You're a gambler. You're a scoundrel.

You're like all of this, like the fact that you have best been now, the fact that you have this, you know, he talks about how the, he conned someone out of like, like getting this gas mine. Like there's, there's a part of it that I think is like, he's seeing through all of the, the sort of grandeur that Landau's put up around him as, you know, shield or, or, or, you know, just like the sort of ostentatiousness of it all.

Like, Han is like, I know you. And it, there's like a funny thing to that. where it's just like, you can put up all of these, you know, the kind of gilding around yourself, but I know who you really are. One, you're going to shoot your shot at my girl, and I know my girl and it's not going to work out. And two, like, this is all, you know, it's all make-believe. It's all, like, play. It's all, you know, it's not who you really are.

Yeah. Well, you know, in a series that looks so lived in, all his decrees. core looks like he bought it in one shopping run 12 one location I was going to mention this that like you one of the things I love about Cloud City is there's a real outside inside dichotomy here we get these hallways

that are and when I say outside here I mean actually the interiors but not the deep interior so you get the outside architecture again this kind of flash Gordon Buck Rogers Reagan Gothic you know art deco big curves with antennae and all that stuff and then you get the interiors which are this like soft white, elegant sky mall.

Like there's like vaguely geometric patterns on the walls. Everything is like softly lit. It has like a Logan's run look to it, right? But then, you know, one of the first times we actually see a deeper interior here is C-3PO sees another protocol droid. And then here's something and goes to investigate into like a little side room. And that side room looks like it could be on an Imperial Star Destroyer. It's gray. Yeah.

It has the metallic, you know, fittings. and stuff, and then he gets blasted. And eventually we see the other deep interiors when we get to like the carbonite freezing room, and that all looks imperial. And so there was a real like wolf wolf with sheep's clothing thing happening here visually that I just think is

really sharp. And never is that more interesting and fun than literally the door opens and Darth Vader is sitting at the head of the conference table. But I think that they use that all pretty well. And like the place has got more Locks basically, right?

When 3PO goes in there, we're going to find it's like, it's got like this place is running on the ugnauts. It is. And like, and it is this like the outer, it, it's like circles of hell really, right? Like the outer layer is like soft lighting, the sun, all that. And as you move in, like literally at the core of this thing is a freezing chamber if we're, if we're doing the Dante thing. But also as you move inwards, it is like where the sausage is made.

Right? Like who is actually doing the labor here. And this is the people like swanning around in, you know, capes and designer clothes. It is this like weird little labor force of dudes who do not seem fully fully like employees. It's, I guess, the vibe, right? Which I don't know. This is something. So tons of my family work in the steel mills in the 50s, 60s, 70s.

and my dad worked there and like tons of my uncles were there and stuff and he talked about like there were departments at the steel mills like yeah you work for the steel company but this is their kingdom like there there's just their departments in there where it's like these guys do not answer to anyone they do their own thing because they are indispensable as well it's not that they're doing nothing. It's like when stuff needs attending to, like these are the guys who roll out immediately do it. But there's this kind of like, this place would literally fall apart without us. This whole thing comes down if we're not doing our thing. And so like, the agnots kind of have this vibe of like, are they just an exploited labor force filling in there? Or are they

kind of the like untouchable contract labor force that like really runs the thing? And you just kind inherited by Yeah, you buy Bessman, you're buying these guys, and maybe they'll do what you want. Or maybe they'll start stripping droids for parts because they're bored. Yeah, for sure. What is the sequence here? They get their little walk around,

they're kind of flirting, not flirting, they're kind of, we get them talking a few times, and then it's just I've made a deal with the empire to keep them out of here forever. Darth Vader review? Yeah. Yeah, Leah, and Han have like a private moment where, you know, Leah's like, you know, we need to go. We need to get off this planet.

Something's wrong here. And Han's like, yeah, we're almost done. Like, they're fixing it all up. It's going to be fine. And then there's the painful exchange where Han says, or Leah says, I don't trust Lando. And Han says, well, I don't trust him either, but he is my friend. Besides, soon will be gone. And Leah is like, then you're as good as gone, aren't you?

Still has that, you know, like that fear that that, Han is just not going to stick around, that, that, that he is a flight risk, that, you know, he has commitment issues. I don't know, that he just, he's, you know, he can fly away with the win. Leah, it's, it's like, it's, he doesn't have commitment issues. is that there's bounty hunters chasing him. Well, you know, both of them have their moments. Han wants her to just tell him

that she needs him and that she needs him to stay and she's thinking about, you know, the rebel alliance and the fate of the world and the universe and everything. And sometimes she's just thinking about, well, is he going to stay? And he's thinking about the bounty on his head. So, you know, both of them are guilty of zooming in

to like the personal relationship while the others is maybe consumed with some external pressures. Why couldn't the, I guess this indicates the how lacking in the juice the rebellion is to an extent.

Why couldn't they go settle up that marker? Just pay the bounty. Well, that's what he's going to do at the beginning of the... Right, you say, why didn't the rebellion do it? Right, right, because... Yeah, send an envoy. Yeah. It's clear.

Job is totally. Job is beyond that. He has now pissed. He wants to make it. He wants to send a message. But why can't the rebellion get ahead of that and be like, whatever's going on between you two? It's over. He's the general with rebellion.

Right. We got it. Here's your pay. Maybe you can't take down the empire. Right. But we could drop a bomb on your ass. He can't. Ali is who's skeptical of this plan.

You think that they have a bank account like that? No, but Han does. Han has the money. Han at the beginning of this is like, I got to go pay this guy back. So why doesn't just give this money to someone in the rebellion to go do that for him? Maybe he doesn't trust it. You can't spare. You've used no one who's less important than Hans Solo that you could send out there to go pay job.

Organizationalistaking your neck out like that for one guy when everybody is just some guy who showed up and wants to be here. True. But Lay is saying this guy's important. We need you. Lay doesn't need him more than. He wants to go to Jabba's house and be like, hey, I know you really wanted Han Solo, but I've got, I've got credits. I've got the credits. Again, Han is going to go to Java.

Yeah, but then Java will have Han there to fuck him up. I know, but that's a plan. It's really also. It's a bad plan. Okay, okay. Maybe Han has not realized how far this situation has gone, right? This is like, you had a debt to the mob three years ago, and they were getting pissed, and they were letting some of their stringers go out and try to, like, catch you, but they didn't really care.

Now three years later, it has become a debt of honor, right? It has become a slight, and what needs to be repaid has changed. And, like, Han may just be misreading this, where it's like, no, dude, the time where you could show up with a, car, like with a car full of cash, that time has already passed. Like, you kind of need to be back at Jabba's palace within like five minutes of a new hope ending. Yeah. Jabba, Jabba has sent the five coolest guys in the galaxy after you.

You think he, you think he deploys that lightly? The coolest guys? That's right. Wait, I thought these were Jabba's guys that, like, Darth Vader intercepted? No, but Boba Fet is trying to get paid twice on one contract. That's what it is.

That's that freelancer logic. That's that freelance. And I'm going to file it with two employees. That's right. File with two employers. Which you got to be careful with. You know, don't let them know unless

they already know, you know. I think Vader knows. I think Vader is like, you know, I'll help you get one over on job. I'm fine with that. That guy sucks for reasons I don't want to get into. I have history. with Java from when I was a kid.

And his kid. Yeah. God. All of that being, remembering that Anakin knows Jabba's kid. And then Bolafed is like, I need to take him Java. Fine. You shouldn't work for that guy.

Ask him how stinky's doing. Yeah. Ask how. You stinky's dad? Oh, okay. So here's my question. Do you think they ate that lunch? Do you think they served lunch and had lunch before the torture began?

With Darth Vader? Yeah. No. I think they did. Vader and Fett, just the two of them? Or do they have like their star troopers with them? The table is laid out. Oh, I see.

You're saying that they say after. He invites them to join. And then they shut them in the room. But they take him elsewhere to be tortured. Like he's like, please sit. And the door slam. shot. I think, like, again, like, kind of the low-key, very dramatic, like, Niles Crane aspect of Vader that crops up sometimes is there where he's like, this is going to be such

a fucking cool entrance. Like, I'm going to be there at the head of the table, like, come done with me, my friend. And then I'm going to make them sit and have a business lunch. Right. I see. Leah's not going to eat. Yeah. What is really good, though? Like what if it's like, Han would eat?

She resisted torture. Lay wouldn't eat. Han would chow down. She didn't, she didn't resist hors d'oeuvres. That we know of. I'd probably eat the Imperia. Like, if I'm caught. Yeah, they're going to kill me anyway.

Yeah. Last meal. It's like cool. Like, so what you got? Yeah. Yeah, might as well. Except Vader can't eat. So you've got to imagine he's just sitting there.

I already. Oh my God. I had mine earlier. Yeah. The pastrami is delicious. Or does he have a fork that like he slips under his helmet? One second. I need to just,

like lowers it. Yeah. I don't think that's happening is, is that here's where we're talking about this. The deal that initially is set is, as I understand it. And this is, there's a little interpretation here. Vader told Lando, we're going to hold them as bait, I'm going to get Luke, and then they can go. And then Vader changes that arrangement and says, all right, we're going to hold them, I'm going to get Luke, and then you have to keep Leia and Chewy here. But I leave with Luke, and Boba Fett gets hot.

And Lando at that point is like, that wasn't the deal. And he says the terms of the, perhaps you, perhaps you think. you're being treated unfairly. And Lander's like, oh, no. And then by the end of it, Vader is like, none of these motherfuckers are getting out of here. I'm getting Leia and Chewy.

Boba Fett's taking Han. I'm taking Luke. The terms of the agreement have changed. When does he... When does he decide Leia and Chewy are coming with? Oh, wait, no, because at some point here, he's going to figure out Leia's his daughter. So here's the other thing's happening in the background of this.

is my view. He doesn't actually want to put these people under the emperor's control. No, 100%. Like again, this stuff is, he is again, completely off book. Like he is, he is doing something. The emperor, he does not want the emperor

to have the details of. And there are people of the emperor would badly want to be brought in. That Vader seems completely unconcerned about what their fate is. and like Han's friends fit into that group. But I guess the question for me is what triggers him deciding he's going to bring Leia and Chewy with him? Because does he make that decision when he isn't sure Luke is coming?

Great question. I think he must make it. Because of the time he matters. It does. Changes of the deal. Yeah. It's changes to the terms. I think kind of reflect

do they stand in relation to his secret objectives I'm going to check the script just to make sure what is the exact lines did you remember it's not terms it's um

is it ready to alter them further that that's what I needed I needed that but that's when the deal is you keep Hanan and the as when the deal is you keep chewing and lay up but I'm taking no it is that is not that

so this is in the so this is so the you keep Alaya and Chewy is earlier it's before the carbonation the carbonite freezing chamber in the carbonite freezing chamber

after Han has been successfully frozen and they check that his vitals are good Landau leans down and he goes yeah he's alive and he's in perfect hibernation and Vader says he's all yours bounty hunter reset the chamber for Skywalker Imperial officer says Skywalker has just landed

my lord Vader says good see to it that he finds his way here Calrissian, take the princess and the wookie to my ship. And Lando says, you said they'd be left in the city under my supervision. And Vader says, I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further. So at this point, he knows Luke is landing. He's already gotten Han in the carbonite.

And he's like, nope, okay, all of my ducks are in a row. I'm taking what's mine. I'm taking what's mine. I'm leaving here with something. And I think you're right that there is a version of this that is not about him getting them to the emperor, but he is about his own interest in them, potentially. Well, Leah's abilities are manifesting in this movie.

Like, the movie ends with her hearing Luke through the force. And so at some point, her identity as a Skywalker is beginning to at least make itself felt on some, like, force level. And so Vader comes into this movie knowing, that Luke Skywalker, like, holy shit, like, that's my son. I've been lied to. But he spent hours with Leah in the first movie and doesn't pick up, like, what's going on there. But his plan still is, I'm not going to give the emperor the heads of, like, or at least what he tells Lando.

Maybe he's lying to Lando completely, but the plan he says he's interested in is like he's going to keep these folks off the board, basically, while he takes Luke somewhere. tries to bring him on side. But then in this heightened moment, like, like Leia is coming in terms of their feelings for Han. Luke is arriving and desperate to get to her in Han. And Luke's going to, Luke's calling out to her in the force.

And she's, she's responding. Like somewhere in all this, like I do, I do think, like, that Vader might begin to sustain. that Leah is

interesting to him in a similar vein to Luke. You may not know what's going on, but for certain. He finally, he famously puts all the pieces together in Jedi. Yeah.

But there's something here you feel like he's one of the pieces he needs to start to put that together. Yeah, that he's sort of working through what's going on because again, all of this is backdrop by the fact that he's been sold a bill of goods

for years. And he's already working against the emperor. And so the deals he's striking are not for the empire. It is for whatever is his interest at this moment. The, um, I'm, I'm,

I'm curious. I have a kind of sidebar. Is the C3PO death the first Star Wars death fake out? He gets blown up. Oh my God. It takes a number of scenes until Chewy can put it back together with his head on backwards, and we get all the comedy bits around that. I would think you have to let the death linger longer, though.

Like, Chewy shows up with a big pile of 3PO parts super fast. Everyone's like, what the hell? Yeah. But you don't think that when you watch the first time. But in that initial moment when he gets fucking blasted. I guess we've seen R2 come back from being blasted before. And maybe with a droid, we just always think it's fine. They can get put back together.

Yeah, and it's not done as like fucking brutally and stupidly as it is the Chewbaga one. Where it's like, oh, my God, we just killed Chewbaga. And then, like, later, like, yeah, I don't know that it's on the same level. But do you think that that's downstream from this and a misunderstanding of this? I'm not putting it at, I'm not blaming this, but do you think that they were trying to echo this style? of fake out. Oh, they were trying to rhyme, but it just like was not unbeat or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Um, mostly joking. Luke shows up. Uh, and we're about to get like, I mean, actually,

it's not true because we should just stay on the carbonite freezing. Yeah. Lando, trying to make things better, keeps making things worse. He tries, he gets on frozen and carbonite because he's trying to talk Vader out of freezing Luke

where he's like, right. We don't know how that's going to, this, this, this frees the path to vana gas. We don't know how it's going to work for humans. Like, it's not built for that. And Vader's like, cool, we'll do a test case, uh, put Ha'at in it. And like, every time, like, Lando tries to make this less of a disaster for his friends, it gets so much worse. Yeah.

He's not ready to play at this league. I got to tell you, he should be in minor still. I'm surprised Boba Fed doesn't put up a, uh, a. bigger fuss about, you know, the potential of losing his cargo to his bounty to carbonite freezing death. Like, he seems pretty chill with whatever happens here. I guess the Jabba bounty is a debtor alive situation. No, it's not, because he does explicitly say he's no good to me dead. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. No disintegration. Yeah. And what Vader says is. Oh, no, but that's about Luke. Isn't it?

No, no, no. He says, he's, uh, Boba Fett goes to Vader and says, what if he doesn't survive? He's worth a lot to me. And, uh, what Vader says is, the empire will compensate you if he dies. Put him in. Right. And so Vader's like, I'll cut the check. You know, whatever job is going to pay you, I'll pay you.

I'll match him. Yeah. And at that point, if you're Boba Fett, you're like, all right. Cool. Like, yeah, that sounds great. And I don't have to deal with him yapping when he's on my ship on the way to job is. Cool. Fuck it.

I hope he dies. Save me so on gas money. You know, pay me now. I can go to the next job direct. I don't got to go to fucking Tantuin. So, this set, the carbonite freezing chamber set is an all-timer. The use of color,

the blue and the orange, the way there are these like, the kind of sight lines that kind of go off into the distance down like these weird walkways or sometimes they look like walkways and sometimes they just look like weird bars that are shaped as if there's like a vanishing point in the distance. All of this stuff is just

it's it's so good. The hellish uplighting from beneath the grates, the yellow light like casting these washes of washes of fire across all the characters as they play this out. The fact that when Luke

arrives. There's so many things happening here, too. As Luke begins to journey deeper into Cloud City, I swear to God the movie's quoting Alien. There's a hallway he walks through that looks exactly like the passage to mother aboard the ship in Alien. It's got the same constellation of lights. And I swear to got some sound effects, like, are quoting from Alien as well.

I believe it. but Luke going deeper and deeper into this haunted house and then again so much this movie has been like well Dago was murky but everywhere else like Cloud City is so stark and crisp Hawth is as stark as can be but like here the physical space is dissolved by the fog

that everything is just like swirling you can't see anything it's this like he's entered this space where it's like the physical world is sort of breaking apart around him

and the lighting is so freaking gorgeous again like watching with Chia Chia points something out while you're watching it the lightsabers cast no light in these scenes

so that you don't break up the silhouette of his encounter with Vader. Like every single moment of that looks like a painting come to life. The way it is staged, the way they are framed.

The fight begins in a series of tableaus. And it's all in silhouette. And we see how badly this goes when it's like, well, you just got to add these things blazing light in every direction. And here, the, we quite pointedly chooses. And this is again, I'm watching like a, you know, the remaster special edition.

They had no shyness about editing things. to make them more correct. No, like the whole the sword here needs to not cast its own light. These characters need to exist in shadow. Yeah, I think that's huge. Can I repeat a read that I've had of the

Han scene now for years? I think I've said here, but I just want to say it in the episode. It's a good read. I love it. I think, and it's not the only read, and we know that here I'm talking about the final sequence for Han before he gets lowered into the carbonite pit. First of all, I just thing that the scene is really cool. I've forgotten how chaotic it is because it is something they

kind of all just decided. Chewy freaks out. Chewy is like trying to help him. Han is like, listen, I needed to help take care of the princess when I'm gone. Like there's a real like, things are just happening constantly. The music starts to swell. And then we get, you know, him getting pushed back to the, the kind of pad where he's going to be. And we get the famous Leah says, I love you. And he locks eyes with her and says, I know. And then, And immediately they, you know, push him into the pit and they hit the button and he falls down and the smoke comes up and the music swells and all of that. And I think that there is a read, the dominant reads that he's being a kind of, you know, smirking asshole in this moment because that's true to who he is. That he, she says she opens her heart to him and he kind of downplays it in a playful way.

that is the way that it was talked about inside of the spaces I was. People talked about him as being kind of like a badass, you know, like this kind of like, oh, wow, what a, what a, you know, almost like smarmy, but in the way that was valorized inside of masculine nerd spaces while I was coming up. And when I watched this movie five years ago, again, for the first time in the years, I realized that like the way I like to read it. And I know that this actually kind of maybe goes against some interview. material in which Harrison Ford says that he didn't ad lib the line, but he came up with the line

and that George didn't like it because it wasn't genuine. It's not how he felt and he was kind of hiding his feelings and blah, blah, blah. I know that that's how Ford talks about it. But my read on this has been for the last five years, and I think I stick with it. The stakes of their relationship have been from the start of this movie, Leah, please just tell me. what I know you feel. I'm begging you. Be honest with yourself and with me about how you feel about me.

Let's talk about it. You don't talk to me when we're together alone. The way you talk to me when we're here at the base. We spent an hour of the last episode talking about their relationships. And the stakes being, can we please be honest about this? And so when she says, I love you, part of the reason she's saying it is because he might be about to die. And when she says it, it's because she's desperate to let him know, oh my God, please don't die thinking that I didn't love you. And so when he says, I know,

which, by the way, he doesn't go, I know with a little smirk. He's swallowing it. It's hard for him to say it even. It's to reassure her, I know you love me. Don't worry. I know you love me. I'm going to die knowing that in my heart. And that to me is like, unfucking believable. And it's so much better than the version of this where he's like getting one over on her. And even if you read it

as like playful and flirting or confident that he's going to be back. There's other ways to read it. I'm not saying my reading is only reading. His reading is too solemn though. Like whatever his interview material is, he doesn't say, I know. Yeah.

People talk with this line is if it's fun. These are last words as he's going into the crypt. Yes. Like that, yeah, No, it is a, it is reassurance. Yeah. Which he already extended to Chewy. That's right.

It's framed by Take Care of Leia. This is the last Mohicans' waterfall scene, right? Like, stay alive. This is like, it's all going bad, Chewy. Take care of her. 100%. Which is also the life that passes to her, right? This is kind of like, anything you do for me, it's over.

Like, my race is run. Yes. And then the last thing to Leia is, do not think that. that I went to my death not knowing. Exactly. That there was something unsaid. Yeah. The scripted line for him that he changed was that she would say,

I love you, I couldn't tell you before, but it's true. And that he would say, just remember that because I'll be back. And that's like, oh. Tomato, tomato, tomato. In the pre-terminator 2 world. Right. I don't like it. No, it sucks.

It sucks. And and, and, it's not like Vigo the Carpathian out there. It really does. Or time is but a window. Fuck that. We don't know that he'll be back. That's what's scared.

Yeah, don't tell us. Yeah. Let us be in the stakes of the moment. Let us all feel like the gravity of the situation. Don't, don't reassure the audience of the next plot point. Right. Reassure the character that you're,

that you're in the scene with of the, of the, of the, of the, character moment that's happening here between them. Like don't talk to us. I don't want to be talked to right now at all. The empire is striking back.

Let them take Han. You know, let Han lose here. That's the name of the movie. Yeah. The empire has to strike back. We have to be like at the end of this movie like fuck, they got one on us.

Like they have Han now. Luke lost his hand. Like a lot is going on here. A lot of like, you know, Yoda's back on Dagabond. You know, not looking too hot, but that's not necessarily the empire's fault. But it's just,

it should feel like we're on the back foot by the end of this movie. Despite, you know, the kind of the winds. Like all of the winds that they've gotten have been by the skin of their teeth. They got off Hoth by the skin of their teeth. Luke, Han and Leah got away from the Starfleet by the skin of their, by posing as trash. Like everything has just, has just been won by that, like, that, you know, the grain of sand,

uh, uh, tilting things in their favor. We're, no epic W, please here. Yeah. And like, yeah, just, just, I think, you know, know, this article I've just linked you to, which is from 2015 by Gwynne Watkins, it was kind of like a behind the scenes on this, includes the screenwriter, the second screenwriter who wrote the draft that ends up getting shot, Lawrence Kasden, noting that he doesn't like it. He said, I could be the only person who feels this way, but I thought their romance had a

touch of falseness about it. Han and Leah's scenes are among what I was proudest of in my script, but they hardly remained. And I do have to tell you, It must suck to be like, I, the people love this romance and it's not the one I wrote and they changed it all in shooting. But I got to tell you, man, people love it for a reason that this romance does hit. They have the chemistry. And I think that in general, you know, Al, you put together a really strong defense of their relationship last time. I'm with you. I think it functions.

But you have to meet it halfway. You have to not go in being like Han is a scumbag who wants to like get one over on her in the end And if you do that, I think it's it's yeah, yeah, they're arguing throughout the movie. There are times he wants to get one over on her, but I just don't think this is that moment. I agree. I've always felt like this was a point of like intimate connection between them rather than rather than the like the the the the Disney adult t-shirt of you know god I love you I know the like dude wearing the I like the you know it's not that right because

that's the thing is that's actually the most important thing is the context that he's saying it is not we're on our way to get groceries if you say this to your partner when you're like not about to die you might be a piece of shit Yeah Right Yeah That's like You're hanging up the phone

Okay I love you I know Yeah I know Yeah that sucks But that's not what's happening here Exactly That's not what's happening He's about to die

She'd want to get one over on him She could have been like Han You're a great leader And an asset to the rebellion That's right Exactly Boom

Yeah God Die in a state of employment I am surprised to hear about the like masculine read of like nerd boys like carrying this to be like yeah, Han Solo is one of us. He like, it is in his final moment he was able to play the cool card when I have seen the Disney adult side of it, which is like thousands of Etsy stores like selling engagement in rings with I Love You and I know engaged like engraved onto them. So like there's been another side of the fandom that has romanticized this, mostly to sell merchandise, but has clung to this. But yeah, I mean, you're right. It's just it is the stakes of their relationship.

But I, you know, it is so much better that he's like, I think there's something about I know that keeps the way the line was written. in terms of like, don't worry about it, I'll be back. Because, you know, there's a way of thinking that, like, if Han Solo really thought that this was the last time that he got to speak to her, he would probably want to say, I love you too. But, like, in holding that back as well and being like, no, I know.

That's what we've been arguing about for, like, a month straight. Yes. And then when I come back, we're going to be on this baseline together. It's going to be chill. Is the way that I read it, at least. But yeah, it's just so weird that like there's so many ways to like cling to this, this performance and a weird thing to say to somebody in retrospect. Can I read you an excerpt from a list of the 15, the 15 Han Solo quotes you need to read, you need to use in regular conversation? Because I think this is, I like exactly an illustration.

Because, you know, there are times that you might hear one of us say that like when we were growing up, we heard things one way or we, and if you weren't in those spaces or if you're younger, you might like not want to take us at our word about that. But here is, this is from, sorry, where's it from? Doubleviking.com men's entertainment. This is exactly the type of space I'm talking about. The number one quote listed here in this article, by answer. Bernie Birch. Excuse me? Holy shit.

I beg your part is that? 2000 and 2007, 2007. So pre-exile. Pre-exile. You know, I guess I would need to do a lot of quick Google. Yeah. Don't know the status of where all the things that we may have heard. Is this the same Anthony Birch,

et cetera, et cetera. I believe it is. I believe it is. But here's what Anthony Burch in 2007 wrote, I love you, I know, number one quote to use, again, top 15 Han Solo quotes you need to use in regular conversation.

He wrote, if you use this line at least once in your lifetime, you can die a happy man. It is the epitome of everything Han Solo stands for. Cocky and badass yet sincere. It's room. that George Lucas, though he didn't direct Empire Strikes Back or even write its screenplay, wanted Honda tell Leah that he loved her too.

But Harrison Ford demanded that the current version of the line, we all adore so much. Tullo's final line delay before getting his shit carbonite frozen is, bar none, the greatest moment in the entire Star Wars saga. Not to mention that if you use this line on a woman who is legitimately expressing love for you, it will drive her nuts. If there's one thing women love other than musicians, it is having strong feelings for someone who doesn't reciprocate them, especially if the person in question is a musician. If you respond to, I love you with, I love you

too, you're essentially begging the the woman to lose interest in you, making an arrogant, not quite reciprocation of that love, hints at possible affection without outright stating it. It is the most intelligent thing you can possibly do. It keeps the mystery up. It keeps you in control,

and it keeps your dignity intact. Hans Solo knows this. That's why he's Han Solo. We're crawling up on pickup artist territory here. I mean, yeah. I'm surprised that like Han Solo hasn't been made the figurehead of the Manosphere fucking, like, like just all of the kind of put women in her place. Like it's so ripe for the, you know. This.

I mean, yeah, that's like, I think growing up, I always felt myself at odds. with that read of the line because I was just like it can't be that like I just like although the way I connected with it was in the way that we've already talked about

that it's this like you know beautiful kind of intimate moment of following up on their bids for connection and everything blah blah blah like that being such a dominant um

view of that line was just something I was like unwilling to like I just it could not possibly be that because that it's just so fucking whack like it would just be such a bad

way to play that character and play that relationship it just it's so shallow it's so there's like a million you know negative things to say about it but to me it was just like you're doing such a disservice to the source material like you're you're really just degrading it by attributing it to some you know kind of pick up artisty like yeah girls only

like it when you're mean to them actually like that's the way that you know girls don't like nice guys guys so if you want to if you want to get girls you need to be like a mean guy because girls always like being it's just like it's so don't put that in Star Wars don't put that in my Star Wars So I I tremble to know but

Are there any of their bangers here that we should Before me we don't we don't need to stay here We don't need to stay here I'm just so curious of what the number two quote is Yeah sure The number two quote is hey it's me When to say it when someone tells you to be careful Who are they to doubt you?

Hey it's you if you weren't the careful, clever guy you were. Good to drive, I am. Yeah. It's really good. Rager. Yeah. Yeah.

This is, you know, it is, it is truly like, it is like, I've got a bad feeling about this. Great kid, don't get too cocky, never tell me the odds. You know, it's all of the one-liners. And it's all just like, be the cool guy Han Solo is. So. So, that's cool. I'm not going to argue this. I agree.

But to, like, be like he's the badass guy that you should all go for because he doesn't love his his girlfriend is like he spends this entire movie throwing a tantrum because she isn't nice to him like that is not I guess that is a manistphere thing so there's weird things that happen in pop culture where things are just remember in opposite of what they are my dad's been writing a book for years they need to help them finish it but like about screwball comedies and the way a lot of the things are remembered and discussed is like they're the forerunner like the manic pixie dream girl right like dizzy dames running in the story and they're so crazy and they're almost like taming stories where like

somebody needs to take this this chaos muppet woman and like get this situation under control and all these these bonkers situations she gets herself into and like one of the big ones like bring up baby right the captain appur and carry grant leopard on the loose type thing that is how these movies were often regarded. And later when people try to like resurrect the screwball comedy genre, they sort of lean into that like description of how these things work, which is you sort of have a, you know, again, like what's this crazy brought up to?

But if you look at the movie, the only character who like knows what is happening at every stage of like bringing up baby is Catherine Hepburn's character. Like she's the only character that like, perfectly reasonable at every moment. What makes her so seem like crazy is everyone else is losing their minds at every stage of the story.

And she's the only person who like is holding in her head. Nope. Here's what we're doing. Here's what's happening. Here's what I want. But that is not how it is remembered. It is remembering this like much more sexist way. And I think in a similar way,

Han is remembered as like the cool guy who all, always just works out and like he gets the girl. And the comedy of it is that all his plans kind of turn to shit. The rescue goes bad. He doesn't, he's rolling snake eyes on so many key moments, right? He can't talk his way out of a paper bag. When we meet him, he couldn't talk his way out of a traffic ticket. That's, that's why he's in the shit with Java.

He kills Grito, which is cool, but Grito seems like kind of a dipshit. his cool souped-up spaceship doesn't work and he can't fix it. And like all these things add up to, there's this impression of Han Solo is like the cool guy, it all just works out for him and it's all under control. Han Solo that exists on the screen is fundamentally a comedic character for a lot of it. Like he has his moments, he's brave, he's a loyal friend, he's faithful to people around him.

But like, all his shit kind of explodes on takeoff. Yeah. And it takes being frozen carbonite to get Leah to open up and admit like where these things stand because everything he tries kind of fails. Yeah, it's just a weird thing where it's like there's this, he's viewed as this aspirational character. But what's aspired to there is a real misreading of like what his arc is in the films and like what's actually going on with him. You know, I also can confirm this as the same Anthony Birch.

It is Rev Anthony on the old, on the old like username, which was, which is what he went by on Twitter at this and stuff at the time. So, you know, laser sword fight. Laser sword fight. Luke, Vader. Laser sword fight. incredible. There's so many good moments, too. Again, the choreography, the editing where

Vader gets distracted, turning on the carbonite freezing chamber and completely misses that Luke just like rocketed out of it. He does his double jump, his super jump. And like, he can't beat him with the sword. Like, Luke has become a good enough, like, that is not how Vader beats him. He beats him by unleashing, like, the full power of the force, right?

The things that Luke is not, and the threats that he can't see coming. Not just the full power of the force, not just throwing stuff at him, but there's a real change in swordsmanship over the course of this fight that I love. Early on in the movie, Yoda says that, again,

the dark side is a shortcut, right? You can draw on anger, but it doesn't actually get you where you want to go long term. And they say that's what Vader did. And at the time I was like, Does that still hold up to our vision of Anakin? We know that Anakin drew on anger to kill all the Tuskins.

We know that there's bits of that. But without who he was as a younger Jedi, et cetera. And who cares? Because here the answer is they illustrate that that is how Darth Vader works. The start of this fight, Vader is doing something that we haven't seen any other lightsaber wielder do yet. He's fighting with one hand. He actually looks like Duku with his swordsmanship at the beginning of this fight.

fight. I had not put that together, which of course is also, Duku is the fight at the end of the second prequel movie. So there's Lucas trying to rhyme with Empire there, right? This is the one-handed duelist who's super technically proficient outperforming the new up-and-coming hot shit Jedi. But by the end of the fight, because that swordsmanship isn't enough, not only does he start like throwing stuff around that Luke can't account for, he starts taking huge, angry swings at him. The choreography for him gets more and more frustrated and more and more powerful. And so I love that as an illustration of Vader drawing on the dark side of the force. He's taking these like, and we'll see this be echoed in the next movie when Luke starts to do some of this, these big,

furious overhand attacks, destroying the environment around him instead of being precise. And so I just love that as an illustration of who Darth Vader is. He defaults when he starts fighting Luke to a beautiful, elegant style of combat. And then by the end of it is the kind of, you know, overpowering monstrous force presence, you know, on the catwalk that Luke just can't withstand, you know? I think that sucks great. And to some degree, Rob, it speaks to you talking about Vader as smart

and as, you know, the agent of finesse as much as the agent of power in both of these movies. it is in fact the kind of the thing that separates him in the first movie is he's not the Death Star guy he's not the brute force guy but what we see here is he is sometimes willing to become the brute force guy which again will Luke also do that where does that lead us to

they make such a moment of when they end up in the hallway together after getting out of the like carbonite freezing room of him I don't think I really noticed that change in choreography, but watching it back now, he, like, very significant, like, in a very kind of highlighted way, like, takes his lightsaber by the two hands,

and that's when he starts, you know, manipulating the environment around him compared to before where, as you said, he was, you know, fighting one-handed or whatever. It's just, it's interesting. it's really interesting to think of him like yeah kind of invoking that

that elegant swords play that that that Count Duku that Lord Vader that that you know Right Lord Vader yeah sure yeah this like this like elegance and like you know propriety

that he's kind of tapping into and then to like lose all pretense when he and like to bring back the kind of raw anakin like power driven you know more power more power and and that's when like the environment comes crashing in and he's throwing whatever he can and he's you know like there's this you know uh charge in the way that he shifts and it's a very intentional change. So I'm glad you called that out

because I really hadn't noticed that the first time. There's some of those small things like even even the beginning he's really defensive, right? He doesn't strike first. He lets Luke be the aggressor in the opening salvo. And I think part of it is he's trying to draw Luke in. He's trying to draw Luke into the dark side. He's trying to make Luke draw on those parts of himself.

And of course he says that outright. You have controlled your fear, now release your anger. Only your hate can destroy me. this is the plan. The plan is I'm going to get you to be so angry. You feel that power. And then I'm going to tell you I can unlock that power for you. Now help me come kill the emperor.

I got a plan, seeing. Yeah, we can figure all this out. I got some ideas about you and me, the galaxy. My wife didn't go for it, you know, 20 years ago. But maybe you will. This time. And we get all the cool running through the hallways Chase stuff that's intercut with this

That just looks good I love the moment when Lando Like goes up to a panel and like Beep beep boop like presses a bunch of buttons and a communicator pops out And he like it's just cool ways Cool Star Wars stuff You know like The bit where R2 tries to hack and he gets zapped

Because he because C3PO told him to plug into the damn outlet instead of the coaxle cable outlet. But here's Landowners fucking libertarian like paradise. No standards. And the outlet is just,

I don't know, just put a hole in it, run wires into it. It'll be fine. And like, yeah, it's like you made the jack look the same as a data port.

Yeah. That's really funny. There's great shape language. Yeah. There's great shape language here. You know, they fight in front of that big iconic window here, which is just amazing.

And also, It's going to be echoed with second death star. And it was already echoed with the Thai fighter. The Thai fighter design has that window. The Death Star is a circle. The galactic imperial symbol is a circle. Like all of that stuff is so like, again, there's just like craft work here in terms of getting your shape language and your thematic through lines together in a way that's like,

there's something really powerful about that and something that I think contributes to its success or other sci-fi movies of the era. They just didn't have that stuff locked down. Also, again, I was struck by how much of this is very quiet. Yeah. That was the thing that jumped off of me. This one was watching it.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no score to the entire fight with Vader. This Star Wars is a franchise. This trilogy operates in space where, like, they don't Mickey Mouse. it, but every big moment is attended by a John Williams score. This one is completely unadorned. It makes the moments where it comes in so heavy.

Well, and it makes it so real, I think, in a strange way. Like, the stakes of the fight are so serious, like, that compared to, like, well, both duel of the fates, but then also what we're going to see in return of the Jedi are big operatic sequences and and echoing that. And it is, you know, again, that realm of the mythopoetic, the, like, this is the fight that was destined. Here, we don't know how it's going to turn out. This is not, this, the outcome of this does not feel predestined. There is no, and I think that's part of it is like, it's such an inspired decision to leave it on score because John Williams always cast the tone of a scene with his, with his music. It's like,

he's going to shape the emotional texture of the scene with whatever he writes. That's kind of the mode he operates in. But this is a scene that it's unfinished and uncertain. And it's scary. It's so scary. This is not, like, this is not Luke

like, this is not like Obi-Wan about to unleash righteous, like, fury on, on mall. Right. Like this is His mortal soul

is in peril but also his physical body Like this is he is not ready for this He is he has wandered into the the labyrinth And there is no There is no score There's not a big heroic moment This is a fight for his life

Yeah I love I love the fact That we don't get to be clued in As to where this fight is going to go By having music to guide us Like out we only have the raw kind of tension of the scene to contend with as audience members. Like we have no one,

nothing else to grab onto for comfort. Like we have, we have nothing else to kind of to console us in this moment. It's all suspended. Curstons is making his raw dog this moment. That's right. Right?

That's right. It's a lot of trust in the sound design. We'll teach you film school. Yeah, totally. It's a lot of trust in like the lightsaber sounds cool and scary. Darth Vader's breath, you should hear it.

You should hear the machinery. The machinery of everything moving. Yeah, totally. And then, yeah, when it does come back, which I think is like he gets thrown to the window, and then there's a little bit of these kind of like, almost like spiraling violins quiet as they march out onto the little out,

not outposts, what's the word I'm looking for? Like the little outcropping. It's a catwalk. The catwalk, the very end of the catwalk. These kind of like buzzing, almost squealing violins. It's so tense. And, yeah, I mean, people probably heard all the stories before about how no one on the crew knew what was the real twist here. But famously, the fake reveal, the on-set reveal was that he said, I killed your father.

And so no one, even during production, knew the truth. And that only got filled in post-productive. Luke knew, you know, Mark Hamill knew. And oh my God, the delivery on Mark Hamill's cry when he hears I am your father. It's unbelievable. We talked last time about how good Hamill is working with Muppets and puppets. But it's so hard to deliver this type of screech and not be laughable across film, across theater, across everything. But it's just so well-fought.

And this is why I think people think he's Ringo. Because again, the fucking toxic nerd, like shit culture of the 90s, people made a point of like, look how vulnerable he's so whiny. It's fucking lame. Totally. And now you look at it and it's like, this is tough to land. It requires full commitment. Like this is a, like, this is the leap into the chasm.

You have to make this land. The way his face twists. And this is like where you start to see Hamel at. as a character actor and voice taking shape here a little bit. Because like the way everything contorts around this moment with that, with that cry, the way he's able to use, you know,

use his voice there is really incredible. And it's where you see these things, you know it, you know, like that Vader is Luke's father and all these things, but you watch it all in one go. And it, again,

hits like a ton of bricks, um, especially because, the two layers in which this operates is it confirms this horrible dread that Luke has. Yes. He also kills Luke's adopted father. Like in this moment, it's like this, your mentor who

put you on this path and it became the most important man. Yep. You know, in your life. This person who you've trusted in your darkest times, you called out to him, Ben, please help. He's lying to you. This whole time he's been lying to you. And hey, interesting.

He said he couldn't come with you there. We left, we skipped over this. But back on Dagaba, Obi-Wan says, I can't go with you to Cloud City. You're going to be alone there. Hey, why not? You can come here, but you can't, you go to that Halloween.

You're like a tune per planet. You guys really don't want me to go confront Vader yet. Is it maybe because he might know something that you don't want me to know? Is that why, potentially? You know? And yeah, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, He cuts off his arm. He reveals that he's his real father.

And he in the same moment, not just literally, I also killed the guy you thought was like your kind of your second dad. I killed him. But also, you can't trust that guy. He's been lying to you. You are truly alone. You are truly alone. And again, like that you didn't save your friends. Yeah, like I was.

Exactly. And I'm the only one who can help you out of this. Yeah. Well, and even the way flips were like, we talked about Obi-1's smirking. at Vader as he forces Vader to cut him down in front of Luke to really seal in that that anger, that mission, that purpose. And now it flips. And Vader finally drives a sword through the heart of Obi-Wan's ghost, right?

And like, they're going to patch it up. But at this moment, it's like they don't care about you that way. Like your family died on tattooing. Obi-Wan is not your family. Like, Yoda's not, like, they don't, they don't care about you as a son, as a child. You are their tool. Also. Vader is definitely taking some cues from Sheave here.

Like, this is, this is, this is like, he went to Sheev's, uh, manipulation class, uh, goddess certification. Except this is all real. And I think that's the, like, sheave is a trick. Mr. God. You know, like, Sheev is so... But Sheev also does use real information, but manipulate... When you think back to how he manipulates Anakin, like, he's...

In the novelization, for example, he's talking about, oh, Obi-Wan was at Padve's apartment, you know, early this morning. Do you know what that's about? It's like, that happened, but it's being presented in a way that so's distrust in Anakin. See, for me, I think it is, there is that, but he's like, it's the...

You think, you think Darth Vader's being like... Basically an abuser, right? Where it's, where it's like you're taking completely innocuous, like, there's nothing condemning about the things that she brings up. And also she's, like, feeds on things like, oh, I could, yeah, I'll bet I could totally save Padme. Has no intention to do so and has no plan to do so.

Whereas what Vader is holding is like, is genuine. The absolute God's honest truth. Like he, this is the, like, I think what's, what works here is that it is,

I guess the question is like, is it, is it manipulative? Right, right. Is it actually, he wants an outcome. He wants to change sides,

but like, all Vader is doing at this point is just telling him what has happened. The truth that was not. He tells him what's been withheld from him. Like, he hopes he knows what Luke is going to do that information. But he does leave it to Luke to, like, decide what that means for him. Yeah.

And well, what he doesn't expect here is for Luke to, again, God, I used to hate this. I used to hate the jumping down into the big pit when I was a kid. Because I was like, that's stupid. You die. but this is actually Luke doing and not trying this is Luke being like I mean maybe it's Luke saying

I would rather die than let Vader kill me or then join Vader but I can also really believe that it's like him being like I can jump down there and survive I'm gonna do it the force has my back the force is going to save me I believe in this in this moment

this like active supreme fearlessness and a refusal to like give in to the hate and violence. Okay. I didn't save my friends. I didn't beat Darth Vader. I don't have my lightsaber anymore. My options now are to rise and stand with this guy to flail at him uselessly and violently or to take an option that seems impossible, which is to fling myself into the abyss. We talked about ego death before. I'm giving up. I'm throwing myself into this thing. I'm not the hero I thought I was. I have to find a new me.

And I think it looks still a little funny, but I think the core of it works for me here. Well, I think the effect that he's so, like, in a kind of funny way, but he so smoothly glides kind of into the tube and like slides, you know, it's not like he's like, Bing, bang, bang, bog, like a pinball going down the tube. Like, there's this, like, it feels like a moment of the force kind of, like, him being in line with the force. Like, he's, he enters this, like, this, like, air draft where he's just like, you know, he just, like, connects with the force of this way that just, like, allows him to, like, to body sail through the air.

that to me is like, yeah, it's like, it's that passivity, it's that trust, it's that, you know, sense that the choice has already been made in some respect. Like, he has already, in a way, committed to not joining the dark side. Like, even though this invitation from his, you know, supposed father is a genuine. one is saying things that might be attractive, it's like, to me, like, Luke has already developed the trust in the force, in, like, Luke has already decided that this is not what he wants, that what Vader is in the empire and the dark side and all of it is not what he wants.

When presented with the choice, I think in the moments. question, yeah. Yeah. It's like what comes next for him now that he's learned this, right? Like, he now knows that he's the son of Darth Vader. Now, Yoda told him that he is not that crude matter, but parental relation. But he also hid that he was Darth Vader's son, which means despite all that, you're not this crude matter talk. There's some sort of fear on the part of Obi-1 and Yoda about Luke knowing the truth.

So I think it's very easy for a young person to be like, I mean, it is not one of the earliest things that many people struggle with. Am I going to end up like my parents, like the worst parts of my parents? As you start to understand your parents as complex humans, or if you've had specifically very clear bad experiences with your parents, am I going to be my father's anger was like one of the most like absolute structuring things for me as a child, fully completely. And so, like, of course you end up getting Luke here rejecting that, but also it's an open question, doubly so because the people he did trust lied to him about this, which makes, which it's easy to read like, I mean, the stuff that we hear him saying here going forward is like, why did you lie to me, Ben? Like, like, why didn't you tell me, right? And it's this thing of like, because you didn't tell me, you must not trust I'm not going to be just like my dad. and so there must be some connection between him and me

that you were afraid I would know and now I can't even trust the stuff can I trust the other stuff you told me about so he leaves this movie confident enough to leap into the force and hope he survives but with his foundation shaken and the only people to turn to at this point

Leah who he manages to connect with through the force as he's hanging upside down on the big antenna thank you for putting the big antenna underneath Cloud City. That turned out to be useful. And then I guess C3PO R2D2 in Lando. If anything, I think it helps support my view of Luke as someone that is unsure what to make of the Jedi itself.

Like I think the choice to not fall to the dark side feels like a confident one to me in Luke. but what to make of the Jedi, whether to trust them or not, what is, like, who is he serving? Get a Mandalorian again. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's like, I know, I know. I know. The story of Star Wars is about a kid who figures out that the Jedi don't have it and neither does the empire. And that he has to find a way forward that's like, he has to find a third way. He has to do the thing that Yoda and Obi-Wan couldn't, but also that Darth Vader couldn't, right?

And manipulating young Jedi into situations where, like, you're going to instrumentalize them. It destroys them. It nearly destroys him. It nearly destroys them. That, like, you didn't prepare me for what I was facing. Yeah, they should have given him all, at least if you know he's going to go meet up with the guy. Like, give him everything. Give him everything he wanted to know.

Yeah. Please sit on sit down on this rock. We have something to tell you. The notion that he would turn around and like just run an extremely doctrinaired Jedi school, like doing the same sort of like manipulation. Like it's ridiculous. But yeah, and in this moment, he turns to, yeah, the only the only people he's got left, which is his friends with the rebellion and his sister. Crucially, who he calls out to is Leah. it's it's not to the falcon it's just the only person you can cry out to is leah at this moment he says ben and there is no ben

yeah ben ain't picking up the phone you can't go there who's this yeah yeah rob lea um and they come and rescue him i think this is a moment where the special edition adds some stuff um there's a little bit more happening with vader moving around in the situation. I feel like in my addition, there's an entire thing with Vader's, like I got to fly up to my spaceship. And like,

Vader traveling around, Vader's travel arrangements are very point in the special edition. Now I kind of want to see if my recollection of this is accurate. Because I felt like, I feel like the editing on this has changed a little bit. You are right, Rob.

I think there's a, there's a scene. at the end that is like Vader in the shuttle in space heading up to the executor and like landing in the shuttle and stuff like that.

I think there is a like bringing my shuttle type stuff in the original but in the special edition there's all these shots of him arriving on the deck of the Star Destroyer inner cut with the Falcon escaping. Real quick before the movie ends I want some about this. Should we look fucking?

fantastic in this movie, particularly his eyes. I think he looks great. I like his, I like his beer. He looks real as hell. He does look real as hell. Like his, like, there's so many moments where like, yeah, he looks really thoughtful. And like, just the expressions, like the way his eyes look. And, and sort of regard people throughout this movie is, it's really uncanny.

It's incredible. He gets a lot of good work in, in Cloud City, especially between. The Lando stuff, Han being frozen, him freaking out about that. Even the C3PO comedy bits as he's like carrying around 3PO on his back. You know, they let they let Chui rock a little bit here. Yeah, they're the only one who seems to give a shit about the fact that like three POs and pieces and he's like, I'm going to fix this little guy. He knows what it's like. It also just feels like he's a look out for CTPO.

He does. It feels like they gave him. him like a like a like a like a glass treatment on his coat like the just in general he's looking conditioned you know moisturized yeah totally between the two movies right he just he did oh my god oh my god yes oh my god yes yes yeah god he's looking at han and lea and he's shaking his head, he's like, you know, I'm glad I'm not, I'm not dating, you know, I'm off the market. I couldn't live out here. You feel back to the wife's his son-booking Twitter, you think you want to be out here.

You don't. Imagining Chewy as a married man with a child as like all of this is going on is absolutely insane. that lives with Wait Now remind Is is Is Um

Is Uh What's not cranky What's pop pop What's pop Lumpy? Lumpy No Lumpy's the kid

No pop Pop I don't remember his name Who's pop Chewys dad What I was going to say Nope It is

Is it not Oh wait Was that not his dad Well, that's what I was going to ask is, is that his in-law? Itchy? Itchy. Itchy. Itchy.

Itchy. Itchy. Itchy. Is Itchy his dad or his step or his father-in-law? That's what I was going to ask. Oh. I just Googled itchy. That's not enough.

I have to say itchy Star Wars. That's his father. That's his father. I didn't know that it's his dad. Itchy was short for Atich. Atich. Yeah, we'd probably add that later to make his father. sound less offensive.

Yeah. Right. No, it's actually just an abbreviation for a perfectly good wookie name, a strong wookie name. Yeah. The meaning of it is first heroic companion in Shrewick. All right. Apparently. According to canon.

Nope. According to legends. You're named with a great destiny in mind. And then three centuries later, you're in your Barka lounger having a guy deliver a porn machine to your house. Christmas Day. Yeah, well. Real stimulating, itchy.

You know what I mean. Hey, grandkid, you play with your spaceships over there in the corner. Pop-pop's gonna... Pop-pop's gonna turn out the porn machine. Yeah. Oh, my God. Well, they come, they pick them up.

I do love the idea of Luke being like, who the hell are you? Because it's Lando who comes out of the falcon to get them down there, but like, you wouldn't even complain. Falcon showed up to save you. So you're going to get in the tube with Lando. But you never meant Lando before. You can be getting stranger danger.

That's right. Yeah. Oh, Leah said I should pick you up. Yeah. Where's Han? Where's Han? Is Han okay? Yee.

About that. Yeah, someone really did a number on him, kid. And then we get all like the kind of, it's not really a montage where we get, we sort of get a montage of them escaping and like Luke being in the tubes and then getting the arm. surgery to get the robot arm, which again, it's supposed to be a connection between him and Vader. Oh my God, look, I'm also becoming more mechanical.

This is... Got this shot with Landau standing with his hand against the Falcon's computer and tears streaming silently from his face. That was incredible. Yeah. I miss you so much. I miss you so much L-E-E-7.

Because it's leet. Yeah. It's so bad. It's so bad. So bad. One day, one day we should do another Patreon episode on solo. We just do it. Here's the thing. Yeah, just do it again.

The core of that. A Woody Harrelson Dark Mentor Western. You know what? That's all I need. That right there is a perfectly good Han Solo novel back in the day. I literally forgot Woody Harrelson was in that movie. He's one of the main guys. Yeah.

I forgot. Yeah. I love the, I love the rebel fleet. We get like a really cool look at all these ships. They are so good. I think if you love it, I think in the 4K remaster, what if there were more Rebel fleet? You know, you kept seeing it.

Maybe I'm cool with that because I think it looks cool as hell, you know? It does look good. Yeah. And then he's getting his new hand. Getting that put back on and they're lighting out to go rescue Han. Yeah, great shot of them looking out at like, I don't know, a star imploding on itself. It looks like they're looking at a galaxy.

No, the Andromeda Galaxy. That's, yeah, you're just over there, you know. So the thing that one of the tales from the Empire books, I want to say, gets at is that they're looking at their own galaxy. that the rebels have fled so deeply from the empire that they have just lit out for the furthest point in space trying to get away from this. I don't know if that's true, but it's kind of a cool, like,

you'd have to be really far away from the Andromeda Galaxy to get that look, get that look at it, but it's pretty cool. I love that read. That's a really fun read. Yeah, and ends up on that, iconic shot of them all standing at the at the viewport Luke and Leah arm and arm

Chewy R2 hanging out yeah reading reading from the script here the direction says that Luke gets up and walks over to Leah there is a new bond

between them a new understanding Leah's thinking about Han Luke is thinking about his uncertain and newly complicated future. Together they stand at the large window of the medical center looking out onto the Rebel Star Cruiser and a dense, looking out on the Rebel Star Cruiser and a dense luminous galaxy swirling in space.

Yeah. I like that. Yeah, just, you know, new bond, new bond alert. So don't worry, everyone. The relationship is going to be different. for next time she did just kiss them on the lips don't worry about it is not in a romantic way

that was that was just like I'm glad you're okay you know totally it's normal for civils when you were separated for 20 years they don't know they don't know they don't know yeah they know they know they know they know they know they know they know they know they know well I guess Luke probably is starting to suspect wait a second there's a deep connection

with the force. Yes. I think if anyone, I think Luke is starting to get it. Yeah. Well, he's not news to him

in the third movie. Like he kind of already, like the searching. He knows. He's not certain, certain until Obi-1 confirms it, but he basically knows at this point. It makes sense to him.

I don't remember enough of the actual details. I hope so. Yeah, we'll find out. I would like to know. I am looking forward to seeing how the payoff of Yoda saying there is another one will feel in episode, I guess, six in the next movie we watch.

Because I think that to me is like a monumental statement to the audience viewer in 1980. There is another one. What do you mean there's another one? There's somebody else that like the galaxy could rely on. And I just, I'm curious how much. that pays off in the following film. Because that's what's kind of sticking in my... I don't feel optimistic about it.

But it is an amazing moment in this movie. I do wonder if we come up feeling that the trilogy fully delivers on it. But we will find out when we tackle Return of the Jedi. Until next time, please rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. And remember, Luke Skywalker got hand. Thank you.