A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 25: Heroes on Both Sides & Pursuit of Peace (Clone Wars 54 - 55)

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

There is an energy today. Can you feel it? Can you anticipate the shouting? The laughter? The grinding of teeth? The discussion of interest rates, privatization of public goods and services, and the strategic neoliberal moving of goal posts? All of this, plus Star Wars continues to dip its toe into antisemitic caricature, and our last real confrontation with Clone Wars' chopped up timeline. Oh, and I guess Anakin says some fashy stuff too. It's a big one. Enjoy?   You can support the show and gain access to a monthly Q&A cast by going to patreon.com/civilized NEXT TIME: Episodes 56 - 58 ("Nightsisters," "Monster," "Witches in the Mist") Show Notes Clone Deaths: Innumerable off screen, which no one cares about Senator Deaths: None yet, except for the ones that already happened in the episode that follows these, which also released a year prior. Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)  

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Clone Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zakney, joined by Ali Akampora, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. In the way the Clone Wars has framed its political conflict between the, let's call it the Amidala Organa faction and the hawkish mainstream Republic Senate, the hawks are always asking for more troops and more fighting to bring an end to the war, while Amadala calls for diplomacy. It's been hard to evaluate the merits of Padme's argument, given that we've never really understood what she envisioned by diplomacy, since we know for a fact that the main ringleaders of the separatist faction have no interest in a negotiated settlement.

Tonight we finally get a glimpse at the politics of the Civil War beyond its Jedi and Sith ringmasters, and we get an idea of who and what Padme has been thinking of when she calls for diplomacy. We also finally get an explanation of what heroes on both sides might have meant in the opening crawl of Revenge of the Sith, as the phrase gives us the title of our first episode in this duo covering an ultimately doomed attempt to strike a bargain between the Republican and separatists. We also learn about the banking clan and learn to our chagrin that as far as depictions go, they are who we thought they were. Oh, brother. I said a picture of that dude to art to be like

I didn't send a picture I said him a scene and I was like you just tell me why I've sent you this scene and art for people who don't know art Martinez Tevel who's in front of the table with me and Ali art's response to me sending him that scene was the giant's

art is Jewish this giant space Jew is a real asshole yep Star Wars can't help but be racist all the time. All the time. That's one of the Star Wars things. You know, that was big monster, racist.

I've got a bad feeling about this. I've got a bad feeling about this. That's pretty much it. Those are all the Star Wars things. So this is a two-parter. I think we're to discuss it sort of in one go. We'll like to acknowledge the gap in the episodes, but really that kind of stands.

as a unit between these two episodes, Heroes on Both Sides, and the Pursuit of Peace. In the broad outlines, the thing that kicks Padme's diplomatic overtures into overdrive is the fact that they are about to pass a banking deregulation bill to finance the ongoing war effort. This causes her to reach out to an old friend on the other side of the war, and together they realize that both sides do have factions that. want to call off this conflict, and things are in such a balance that this could actually happen. Naturally, we get a glimpse of the separatist parliament. The motion goes through, however, when Padmay goes back to Corrassant, two things go wrong right out of the gate.

First, she tells Palpatine who her contact is on the other side. Protect your sources. To a separatist terror attack, well, a Sith terror attack. inflicts massive damage to Corrassan and pretty much scuppers the peace talks, much to the delight of the banking clan, the techno union, and the trade federation. In the next half of the episode, in the second part of this pairing, the follow-out for that is that the peace overtures are spent, and so there has to be some other argument made

against escalating the war effort and continuing to invest all the all the republic's resources into guns and not butter and we also get a little taste of whether what kind of contacts the senators in the republic actually do have with common people and the clone wars thinks it has a real breakthrough moment here oh brah may me i'm not so sure uh but we'll we'll get to that as well it's you said earlier the like it's exactly how we thought it would be in terms of the banking clans is like our worst possible you know our our most bad faith reading and suspicions of how the banking clan would go i want to say that actually these two episodes are the most our readings on everything are

right episodes i can conceive of it's just like again and i think i messaged the group the group chat to say that like there's a character one of these episodes who just tweets it out who just says the fucking thing. I like these episodes quite a bit, despite the racism. It's probably involuntary racism, but isn't it so often that? Where to start on these? Well, I was thinking we could dig into just the start of this first episode, because I think it's an interesting move. Because the emergency that spurs this peace mission isn't really about stopping the war, and it's not really about, like, the way the war is going, it's the fact that the

death star that is coming online is banking deregulation. Uh-huh. And I think that's just an really interesting way for this to lead off. Because usually, we've seen this dilemma play out a few times. This is the first time they introduced this idea of,

oh, there's really interested stakeholders in seeing this war continue. As well as, I think we learned so much about the Republican economy here as well. It's not good. It's bad. It's really bad. Yeah.

In fact. The intro like makes it very clear that again, one of the things that we've been hammering again and again is, hey, it seems like this war is being lost. And again, we get an introduction. It's like, they're not winning the war. Like it's just not. There's no end coming. The casualties are clone troopers suffer casualties

at alarming rates. And there's an emergency set. There's an emergency meeting to determine should we deregulate the banks. And they just say it like that like they don't dress it up for kids this is this whole session is do we need to deregulate the banks so that they will loan us more money because at the they refuse to loan us money at the rates that they're currently offering us yeah they dress it up very very thinly at the very start by saying you know this is no longer uh senator saum is working for the

banking clan in some capacity or is representing them on the Senate floor and it's like this is a matter not a philosophy at this point um you know we need to he he introduces a bill to gain new lines of credit which will allow them to gain access to needed funds and Organa is like we're near bankruptcy because of this war um He also has the best line, which is, he says, our general inform us that the troops on the field continue to perform valiantly. He's literally like, we have troops at home. Like, we don't need more troops. Our troops are doing good, which is a line of argument, I suppose, even though they're dying nonstop.

Yeah, like, both of these options are bad. Like, every, there's no, like, this is the good one. We should all be going for this one. Because we have troops at home and let's bankrupt the Republic are both terrible options for... Well, this is the thing that also blows my mind. I'd always kind of wondered the Toydarian on Tatooine. I need something more real. Wado.

Yeah. Waddo. Yeah. Like, what's that mean? Right? Like, we always figured, like, he wants hard currency, and it turns out basically he does. but I never understood, like, yo, why can't he take a line of credit from the Republic? Because the Republic can't make its own currency.

Like, this is all way more parsible now because we live in an era of, like, crazy deficit spending. Yes. But, like, the Republic can't do it. The Republic is, like, a medieval state where, and this is kind of where some of these... There are some sort of standard, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, like, this is where some of the stereotypes about, like, the banking clan and, like, who tend to be the lenders of states in the Middle Ages starts to come from because it isn't

handled inside the government. It's not like even if you have like a minister of like finance or something, that's not necessarily, that doesn't equate to we control our own currency. So the Republic isn't a state the way we'd recognize at all, which we kind of had an inkling of just given the way the Senate is structured. But like this part where, like, like they literally have to go hat in hand. There's no more money for war unless they deregulate the operations of the banking clan. And again, what deregulation means comes into firmer focus in the next episode, but to like

emphasize it now, I think it's worth saying, right now what is happening is the Republic is taking out loans from the banking clan at a percent, at 10 percent, and that there is regulation in place to prevent the bank. the banking clan from increasing that, whatever that rate is, to a place where they want it to be or where they find it valuable enough to continue loaning money to the Republic. They have the ability to tell the Republic, no, we will not loan you more money. We are not going to do it, period, the end. And the Republic has no recourse to that, except for saying, you're no longer regulated.

You can lift that number to whatever you want. And that number ends up lifting to 25%, which is an absurd leap. And that's, again, like, I'm pretty impressed that they just did that straight up in these episodes and just like, that's what this is about. Because no matter what happens after that moment in this world, let's say the banking clans, let's say the war ends, Palpatine is ousted, the heroes win. The banking clan is still deregulated. The banking clan, still in good standing with the Republic. They're not going to reduce that rate back down. Maybe they'll reduce it back down to 20% or 15% if they're feeling generous.

and we don't have the pool because they've been ousted as being secretly aligned with the enemy, but there's always going to be more than that 10%, which like, this is the thing

that literally happens. This is the thing that happens and happened around the war on terror is this game of like shifting goalposts and shifting standards where what was acceptable

before the war started has changed and we'll never get back. We'll never put the genie back in the bottle. And I love that that is the centerpiece, it's the kind of economic centerpiece of these episodes. What? When did this episode, specifically when did this episode come out? Because the date matters here now. It does. This is November 19th, 2010. Okay, so we're two years on from that

financial crisis, which everyone works back to financial deregulation, just allowed banks to continue to plant landmines throughout the global economy, in part because they were able to invest in asset classes they did not have to before they were trusted with a lot of self-regulation that they should not have been trusted with and they were

the capitalization requirements were relaxed which meant that your bank didn't really need to have enough money in the old Bailey savings and loan to cover all the people if there was a run and so like it is interesting the two years later

they were I think because of the circumstances around this episode just historically, you could also trust that probably kids, even surprisingly young ones, had gotten inklings that, like, something in this area maybe happened. Right. And all children's shows tend to grow with their audience. So, like, kids who were, you know, seven or eight when the show began are now 10. Right. But, yeah, so I think there's... They've heard the bankers are bad at least once from somebody, or the bankers took money from grandpa or whatever.

whatever, right? They have some context for that at this point, at the very least. I'm shocked that no one said financial instrument during these episodes. I liked the... I also really enjoyed the meeting of the banking clan dude, the Trade Federation Techno Union guy. The, like, okay, is he bad for the Jews? Yes.

is the banking clan guy kind of cool I don't know he says he's a great villain the banking clan and trade federation are about business

not violence and you got Lott replying in this case our business is violence and that's when the banking plan guy

turns and looks out the window and is like we got to bring this war home and I was like that's Cheneyism right there

that's Cheneyism right there a fucking wake-up call is this Is this the scene where he tells the other dude he, like, doesn't matter, or is that a later scene? Yeah. It's so fucking good. Eat shit, techno union nerd. No one cares what you think.

I'm really exactly the line, but it's something like that. And it's like, I, you're just, shh, sure, it's okay. We're going to, the adults are talking. We should say, okay, so the character that we're talking about, Nick's Card, N-I-X-C-A-R-D is a, is from a, a Star Wars species called, Do you know what they're called? Does anyone know what they're called? Is it please tell me it's not going to be bad? You know, they're the moon, M-U-U-N.

They're from a planet called, it's not called money, but it's called... It's Monellist, isn't it? It's M-A-Lis. M-A-L-List, yeah, yeah, yeah. Two years. For people we've never seen this guy. He is eight feet tall. He could have hooped, and I think that would have been

a preferable outcome. And his face is long, is very long and tall. And that means that he has certain distinctive features. His nose is very big and very long, which they've decided to give him a really nasally voice. And so, like, you're really playing in a certain court where they could have given him like a deep voice, and that would have at least been something. that still probably wouldn't have been great.

You know what I mean? Like there's, there were ways to, they should have just did a different dude. They should have just not done the dude who looks like an anti-Semitic stereotype. Yeah. Let this dude be, he could be on the side of the war,

of the war. He could be one of the hawks that's in the, in the Senate. That's fine, but you couldn't just give him to swap him out with, I don't know. Well, again, it also lessens the power of some of the, like,

reference they're trying to make, right? It's like, okay, so when you make a lot dodd, uh, base uh japanese than the fact that he's in like supposed to represent a corrupt american politician is lost like the and we got rid of rush clovis who was this guy this guy this guy has replaced rush clovis as the banking clan guy in the senate since rush clovis was betrayed you know caught up and all that shit so rush clovis here would have given us our lily white investment banker

asshole jami diamond yeah exactly yeah so this would have been great, unfortunately. Okay, so... Nick's card. Yeah. The other part of this, there is a little bit of like Protocols, the Elder's Zion thing, where it's like they're engineering a terror attack.

Like, it's very much like Israel did 9-11 type stuff. It 100% is, dude. I was losing my mind. But here's the other thing, though. Like, in that era, like, there was such blatant glee from the right when terror attacks happened

they were completely self-justifying and two terror warnings were blatantly politicized where it was like before the 2004 election there were just this wave of like it's an orange alert day we could be killed by terrorists just in case you'd forgotten

who's standing post like so this is the other frustrating thing is he is a good villain the things he's evoking are really bad but then there's other things he's directly referencing which are very good they're very good references they're doing a George Bush did 9-11 story

but they're stumbling into the Jews did 9-11 yes the Jews George Bush's friends did 9-11 is what they've stumbled into and it's they really want to hit the George Bush part really hard like that's the part that they or like the banks right like as a reminder the big two hawkish people who are in the next episode are

me Dici who we've talked about before I believe we called out Me Dici is in the next episode our Medici Just the name finally correct Well and then the other one that we didn't notice last time is Hallie Bertone Which is Halliburton

Which someone has to fucking tell us Because we're two in our own asses About politics and philosophy That we didn't pick up That one of the big hawks is Halliburton So like I think it was sniper serpent shoutouts Their targets are right, but it's the same thing we talked about recently with Lucas playing with a certain, you know, broad archetypal like 1930s Republic serial playbook that stumbles into these broad caricatures that are all based in racial stereotype because that's what the people telling those stories at the time used to develop those caricatures and those archetypes.

Like, ah Anyway I don't think I don't think that George Bush did 9-11 But I've always suspected he could have tried a little harder To put it in a little harder Like

You know, there are some reports he probably should have read Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Nice chill Peace and peaceful and prosperous country We're gonna cut this We can't go down this road On the podcast

Speaking of things that are frustratingly unsophisticated. How'd you all enjoy this next family conversation between Assoca, Pan May, and Anakin? Hanging out with mom and dad. It's wild. Anakin doesn't think the Republic is corrupt?

He is no. This is the most authoritarian we have ever seen Anakin be. He is like full fascism. He says, war's complicated Asoka, but let me simplify. the separatists believe republics corrupt but they're wrong and we have to

restore order that's what he believes in his heart of hearts he grew up as a slave I'm going to shout a lot this episode I just feel it this is such a bad shit episode uh uh soka yeah

uhsoca is walking down the hallway with Padmay and Anakin and it's like this like hey that Senate meeting was made no sense and everyone's like yeah no it didn't

and she's like yeah I know like the separatists are super evil but the whole time everyone's talking about banking deregulation and interest rates and not about you know why we're fighting this war in the first place

and that's when Antikin's like listen up kid war's complicated you tiny stupid girl Let me simplify this for you I like

I like that Anakin's fascism is indistinguishable from no thoughts head empty though He has zero He's zero thoughts in his head He is literally just by the interview He's a good guy and he and his team are doing the best they can Yeah And just

It has one of these exquisites I wish I could think less it seems like his life is so much easier it's so much easier when he don't be thinking when he start be thinking that is when he be killing people and doing wild shit maybe if he was thinking in a moment like this though

he would be more ready for those other moments do you know what I mean like maybe he'd be like hey this guy who is my mentor seems real evil all the time around me But he's not thinking about that Because in his mind, that's the that's the head good guy Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Mr. President

Mishav standing in front of a mission accomplished banner In front of the Dead Zillow Beast Yeah Nobody talks about the Dead Zillow Beast anymore No No Well, I don't even know where Ono's alive in this

So I don't even know we're wearing more Yeah, yeah, yeah I do. We are before Senate murders. This ends with Senate murders. It's these two parts. It's this one, two, and then Senate murders is the next chronological episode. And then we never have one more out of order episode, and it's like season five, and that is it.

And then we're done. I can't do it anymore. That's a tough week for Uncle Ono. Right? It's jumped and then the next week is fascinated. Like, damn. He was really out here. You know what?

I talked a lot of shit about Ono in my time. Yeah, imagine, think of when Uncle Ono died. Like, everyone was like, Uncle Ono really fucked up that one time. He really fucked up, and he's really going to have to, he's really going to have to make up for it one day. But he really fucked up that one time. And his killers in that is in this episode. She's next to him. And he still showed up to work the next day.

He had to sling on. He was like, I'm voting. This shit sucks. Anyway, I kept thinking about that because I kept thinking like, is Uncle Ono going to vote against this bill? Like, is it that out of time that that's his big regret? But no. That would have been great. He's stuck with the squad.

He's stuck with the squad. He's stuck with a real one. The squad, fuck. Oh, no. Anyway, we got to get to the scene where Padmey hits. So Padmey's like, never mind. We're not talking to the Jedi Council. Padma's like, the doctor is a woman.

She does that joke. On Asoka. Fucking internalized misogyny, Assoca. Padmey, like, let me be a girl bossy for a little, a little bit, okay? Okay, little sis. Yeah, okay, little sis. It was just, it's great. So Padmay and, or Anakin releases Asoka to go,

learn politics from Padme and Padme decides what better way to teach politics than use Asoka's Jedi clearance

to cross enemy lines and visit her old pal Dr. Bonateri Bonneri I also wrote Bonitari like a lot and then had to go back

and take it. who was notably her old mentor on Nabu when she was a child. So they go to there. I was looking to see if I wrote down the planet name and I did it. Maxis. Maxis. Maxis. Raxis.

We're sorry, Raxis. Yes. There's also a Raxis. There was a Raxus prime that they, that is a different planet for some reason. but raxus and raxus prime different places yeah so but yeah they they cut through mandolore the plan is like

Jedi can go to neutral planets even though politicians can't which I'm just on it's illegal to have meetings with separatists because it would legitimize separatists and Asoka's like well we have what me and my master I like to call aggressive negotiations all the time

maybe it would be cool if we if there could be more peaceful negotiations and then uh padmay's like okay take me to raxus and then asoka's like you know you and my master really think alike sometimes that's so funny that y'all think so much alike and she's forgot about this padmay doesn't love this comparison i don't think she does not for multiple reasons multiple Mostly ideological, I think. I think Pat may also, she's like, I think. I think, like, that moment between her and where she's like, you know what, I don't think for you, talking to the Jedi Council is maybe the best.

Maybe not, maybe don't liaise, don't do politics. I'll teach the child about politics. There was a very recognizable, like, Padmay realized that maybe she loves somebody but doesn't respect them. Oh, that's brutal. In the background of this, Duku is arranging to make sure that terror attack happens. He's got Grievous sending the perfect infiltration team into the Republic. It's droids.

It's fucking Decepticons. It cracks me up. He also gives them a pep talk. Grievous is so lonely. This is the loneliest man in Star Wars. He is. I could be there for him. I could, yeah, I would hang out.

We could love him. Yeah. He would be at home with us. He literally, when he was like, I don't take orders from you, only my dad count, only my dad count, you do I take orders from. Yeah, one of the banking clan people tried to order him around. He was like, nah, absolutely not. I love how direct this is in that, like, those senators are DMing grievous, like just

calling him on the phone and being like, Yeah, kill all these people for me. Thank you. We don't even have the Duku go through on there. Bro, like, I'm not saying that... Where is the surveillance state? This is what I'm saying. I'm not saying that it's good to have a surveillance state.

I'm saying the Republic isn't good anyway. So why the fuck have they not invested in the CIA? If you're keeping them from talking to separatists, like, don't you just want to know who they're calling anyway? Like, just because... Yeah. You just have a log. How do you know they're not talking to separatists?

If you're not reading their... eye messages what just think about it just think about it they must be on a VPN or you know what I mean they got burners if you really love the Republic you'd share your passwords

let me see you can we see your phone let me see you in the Republic I have to swap phones for 30 seconds would you do it no excuse who's this why this says Gen G who's Gen G

who's Gen who general general grievous is that who that is you said you were talking to grievous no more what's this about why are you asking him for $40 I see he rejected that cash apricose

why do you be asking Gen G, I need my shit where's my shit oh he's my he's my weed dealer He's my weed deal with that's all it is And he's got some weed That needs to be delivered for that super stressful

Vote that we've got coming up Oh, okay We've got a hotbox the Senate This would have gotten different if that had happened Yeah The world is the city They hopbox the power generators instead The world if

Anyway The world if Senators smoked weed we're on one it is not even 9 p.m. yet we were just gone I forgot this detail the banking clan just openly deals with both sides

yeah everyone knows this they are just like hey you can meet our terms or you can or like I assure you the separatist will yeah it's like this is just out you just know this you're just out here I remember we have that

ridiculous like the law 1978 or whatever it was a couple episodes ago. 1476 says we're allowed to deal on with both sides and like the first thing you should have done was gotten rid of that law but you can't because they have all your money you have to nationalize these motherfuckers

you have to take their shit the first place the clone should have gone was to the banks. Absolutely your shit no our shit. Our shit. You're using the The second person plural now.

We. No I. But isn't Camino in the pocket of the banking clan, though? I don't know if they're supposed to be a relationship there. Okay. So. I believe so. Yes.

Right. No. Fucking Bertone. Yeah. It's a pass-through. Bertone is like, we need money for clones, which I'm going to sell you. And the banking clan is, we will loan you money for clones. And you're going to pay us back.

So they're going to loan the money. The Republic is going to pay us back. The Republic's going to give it all to Bertone And then it's going to be paying the banking clan back forever So they don't need to be in the pocket It's just a grift And it's real This is real

This is real This happened This is a documentary Clone War season three is a documentary Fucking follow the money They should be showing this in schools Put this on your fucking syllabus They won't let you teach this in schools

They won't They don't want you You can't teach season Through your clon words in schools It makes it feel guilty But I don't like it I don't want it in schools I don't know what it is

I don't know what it is. Can you tell me what Clone War season three is? Well, you know, I don't. I just, I... I don't know. I don't know. I know that I don't like it. I know writers who use subtext.

Anyway. So, we got Grievous. Maybe he's up with some goth girls. Is that where we're at now? That's where we're at now. Uh-huh. So Grievous is giving the droids a pep talk. Just because he likes to talk to people.

And droids just listen. So he's like, he's given the patent speech where you, you know, you reach into the puddle of goo that used to be your best friend's face, and the droids are like, I'm a vacuum cleaner, sir. Oh, yeah, sir, I don't. He explicitly says, like, you're not going to come back from this, actually. Your mission is to blow up, that he is to blow up, period. Some of you may not return. actually none of you will return so go out there

they make dope sounds by the way they make deep rumbly sounds they were down they were down for it yeah that's what they were designed for they're built for that you know yeah it's fucking oh my god the fact that they just straight up

called like just straight up said suicide bomb yeah they did do that they absolutely call this a suicide bomb in the next episode or suicide bombing the last next next episode, I was shocked. I was, I was so, anyway, so, so.

They head off, back on Raxus Prime. Space New England. Not Prime. Not Prime, regular Raxus, thank you. Raxis Prime is like Cotor, isn't it? Beta, only. Raxis Sigma. I got totally head faked here, because, so we meet Bontarian and her son, and it's

like meeting a quarter of the end. Adams family. Yeah, okay, so this is what got me, because I was like, this is a Dracula house, but that they were doing like a regency thing? And I was like, did I, what, is this, what's happening here? No, I, I love Salem and the North Shore as much as the next person. But like, even as a New Englander, I'm like, these vibes are fucked. Mm-hmm.

It's fucked. I don't like this creepy little kid either. Yeah. The fact, the, the, the, the fact that, for. For some reason, there is a subplot in these two episodes that Asoka and this random guy like have a, like, have a wee bit of a crush. And like, for that reason. She keeps doing it.

You just associate England with romance. Like, because every time it comes up now, you slip into the worst British accent I've ever heard. This is actually The Filoni's aren't in the being about this kid So again They meet Of course, of course Of course, of course

They meet What is her name? What is the family name again? Senator Bon Terry Bon Terry and her son They learned that the husband died while Heroically building a base somewhere

The clone showed up and killed him Which like, all right, I mean, don't be at a base I mean, it happens. We'll get there. Yeah, we'll get there. I mean, Asoka, Asoka acts like, you go ahead. I'm, like, surprised that we see her, like, immediately shut down in that scene upon hearing that he died. When, like, in every other scene, Asoka's been in, she would have been like, well, what was he doing?

Making a villainous super serum or, you know, colonizing a planet that didn't want the separatist there? Because, like, she's fucking been in it. Yeah. Well, she, the thing. I think, so she acts shocked the clones kill people, and I wrote the down and being like, all right, Asoka. But, you know, she mostly kills droids.

Right? And I bet she thinks of the war as not having a human cost on the other side. Because they use droids. And so I can imagine that being surprising for her, but it shouldn't be that surprising for her. Come on. Yeah, that's a good point.

I think also because I mean, a lot of her empathy resides in the fact that it's this kid's dad. Like this kid is seemingly emotionally affected by, like continues to be emotionally affected by the loss of his father. And that is a direct result of the side of the war that she's fighting on. Yeah, the two of them connecting on the sort of, let me read the Filoni zone, which there's going to be a moment we have to pause because Filoni says a thing in this that I don't think is true. and if it's true, it changes literally everything about the Clone Wars and about the prequels.

Literally everything. Literally? If you're going to know it, I'm going to say it, and then we're going to have to move past it or pause, and I'll judge based on your reactions. We'll have to pause. I know us. This is a long thing, too. I didn't want to clip it because it's not funny to listen to, but I'll just read the text.

Okay. The title for this episode is Hero on Both Sides. Now, that idea, Heroes on Both Sides, comes from the open. and Crawl Revenge of the Sith, where it states that during the Clone Wars, there were heroes on both sides. And I think that's followed up by, evil is everywhere.

When you have to hit the word count for the paper I can do tomorrow, the feel win. The heroes on both sides came from when the heroes on both sides. This is an interesting concept that I don't think was ever really presented anywhere else, where what do you mean there's heroes on both sides?

I thought the heroes were the Republic. well think about it if count duku claims to have left the republic because an evil sith lord is in control of the senate and he sways a bunch of good senators from the republic to leave on the grounds that the republic is corrupt well that's exactly true that's exactly true so they've all left the republic for the right reasons they believe the republic is corrupt here is my pause what did count ducco leave because no no that's not a look at he claimed publicly that that sounds like that No. Did he say out loud of Sith Lord is in control of the Senate? No.

Because that's what we. Pheloni is saying he did. And that he convinced people to... Faloni doesn't know Star Wars. Hold on. He's saying that that is how he convinced people to leave the Senate and join the separatists.

No. Is that true? Wait. I'll read it again. Think about it. If Count Duku claims to have left the Republic because an evil Sith Lord

is in control of the Senate and he sways a bunch of good senators from the Republic to leave on the grounds that the Republic is corrupt. Well, that's exactly true. That's exactly true. So they've all left the Republic for the right reasons.

They believe that the Republic is corrupt. Is he saying this like, what if he had said this? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's saying, that's true. I mean, I'll continue, read it. Go ahead. Okay, hold on.

Okay. Rob and then Natalie. Rob started. Rob has to say. Yes. He has to be wrong about this. It doesn't make sense because the thing is, the reason the Jedi are so completely blindsided by what eventually happens is because they have no inkling the Sith background. Now, if Duku had said publicly, like, hey, it's time to quit the Republic because it's fallen to the thrall of a Sith Lord, that would have at least aroused curiosity from the Jedi. They would have been like, well, that's a hell of a thing to say.

and they wouldn't have been sitting around in the third movie being like what all right wait Natalie you do your thing but I just found something also what did you find he does tell in attack of the clones

he does say to Obi-Wan in that scene what if I told you the Republic was now under the control of a dark lord of the Sith and Obi-Wan says no that's not possible the Jedi would sense it and Count Duku says the dark side has clouded their vision hundreds of senators are now under the influence

of a Sith lord called Darth Sidious and Obi-Wan says, I don't believe you. Was he telling that to all of the fucking separatists? No. Because if he was, we got to join the separatists. When does he tell that to Obi-Wan? That's the one-on-one. That's the one-on-one.

That's the version where he's like inviting Obi-Wan to join him, basically. Yeah. Like one of the better parts of attack on the clone. Yes, yes. Which we recently misattributed. If he's doing this, these are all closed doors conversation, right? Like, he isn't getting off on his little Senate scooter and being like, by the way, guys. In the separatist Senate at this point, he might. Sure.

But that's on how he leaves. Yeah, but then fucking, what's her name? Bonitari would have been like, Bonnerie would have been like, listen. Oh, Padmay, I'm not going to negotiate peace with you. You literally belong to a Sith. controlled republic well what does she care about the Sith he's gonna fuck about the Sith

like really really though I don't know aren't Sith just universally evil like who wants to fuck with the Sith no one knows about the Sith no one knows about the Seth the Sith isn't like a thing because the Jedi have stomped on all that information but then he's not using that to sell senators

but they but privately to a senator a Jedi might be like there's a group called the Sith and they're really evil and they've infiltrated the Senate right he might be able to do it there but I think that's probably why he isn't out here publicly someone needs to tell me if in the attack of the clones novelization if this comes up because I need to know and I just need to read that

because it feels like it feels like a thing that he'd say to obi won to compel obi one but like I don't know the everyday senator but Faloni is the one who's saying Philoni can be mixed up I know he could but he has less of a chance about being mixed up about this than I do. Well, maybe he's saying, maybe he's saying that Count Duku himself is a hero on the other side. Like, Count Duku left because, but that doesn't make sense because Count Ducco works for Palpatine. So, no matter what way you slice this, it makes no fucking sense. I want to double check on this. Yeah. Does, does, does Duku know about the Palpatine and Sidious

Yeah He does Yeah yeah yeah And that's why he's telling Obie oh obviously Because remember like at the end of Or at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith

There's that look that he gives Sidious when he realizes He's being betrayed Oh she's gonna let Anakin fucking kill him At the end of revenge of the attack of the clones At the end of attack of the clones

Oh right okay Yes yes They literally do if you're right Everyone's all right He doesn't confused About the situation Anyway I'm gonna continue this flow on his own

Because this is the bit I actually wanted to get to. That is a concept about the separatists having a good reason to leave that had never really occurred to Asokatano. Asoka sees the separatists as bad. Well, why wouldn't she? All she's ever really met is grievous and ventures and fought them, and they're terrible. Which I have notes, but it's fine.

This was an opportunity to have another episode of Padme and Asoka getting together so that we see there's almost like, you know, the sister relationship that extends to Padmae, where she takes Asoka and teaches her more about politics. She takes Asoka to Raxus where the separatists have set up their headquarters. On this adventure, we thought it would be very exciting to start to hint at a problem for Asoka, which would be contact with a boy of her age that has nothing to do with the Jedi Knights, and a boy that is very different from Anakin Skywalker in every possible way. That boy is Lux Bontari.

He interests her because he gives her a different way of thinking, a different perspective on her world, and what I really like about this episode is how, at the beginning of the episode, Asoka thinks one way, and by the end she thinks another, and that's really what the character is all about, is that she stands in the middle of this entire galactic conflict and she's witnessing it as a person with an open mind and now she has a critical perspective that she gains from the other side of the war.

Which is like, that makes me a little optimistic about where we're going to go with Asoka that that's where he sees this, what he sees from this episode, but I don't know that I'm on board with it makes the episode good that she swings so hard so quick, you know? Yeah. Yeah, like you don't, I mean, is it that, is, is, is the Republic ideology that

fallible that all it takes for Asoka to, I don't know, question her, I don't know, like I'm glad that she's, talk to a cute boy and that's open to your mind. Yeah, the basis, yeah, the fact that, exactly what Alice, yeah, the basis of their conversation to him being like, my friends are telling me the Jedi aren't good even though I always thought that they were is like enough of a ground-shaking moment for her that she's like oh well what's going on with this war also when we enter his like when the camera shifts to enter his perspective and he just like looks her like up and down and then it's like the Jedi aren't so bad and she's like um okay and then he's like well you haven't met a separatist before what do you think of me and she's

like and it's just like boys are the same everywhere Boys are the thing. It's just like... Also... The fact that that is the crux of... Of her question. They go on to have conversations. We just don't get to hear them.

They only show us the bit where he hits on her. But like, that's frustrating. But even as he's leaving, like, there's still, like, a romantic connotation to the goodbye. Like, the whole thing is just wrapped up in this, like, unearned I don't know Maybe Assoca doesn't get out of the house much

Well it's also we're noting This is a new debut for Asoka This is the beginning of her second big costume phase Her whole model is changed here We also get a refresh on Anakin in this episode It's not the major hair change But his jaw is different His facial structure is different

But yeah this is not all these changes are good But like this is very much We've moved from like young teen Asoka To mid old teen Asoka And so it's very funny that formal, like, change to her body happens. And then we immediately get a romance. The thing I hated about that is what we talked about with, like, Ava, where it's like they're using, because Lux is a teenage boy, we go through his perspective as he ogles her and objectifies her. And it's like, okay.

And I guess it is a kid's show. But at the same time, it's like, man, I'm a grown man. There's grown up people animating this. This is like kind of a weird leering moment at like a young girl still. And so it's the same thing it wrinkles about like those moments in Ava where it's like on the one hand. Yeah, it's like like teenage characters having like first like feelings of sexual attraction toward other people. but at the same time, like, the people on the production pipeline are grown-ass adults. And so that shot of, like, hmm, nice.

It doesn't land for me at all, where I'm like, oh, I just, it confirmed, again, it sort of confirms some of, like, the things I worry about with the way Assoca's been conceptualized and, like, costume throughout this entire series. Yep. Fair enough. Also, this little Wesley Adams guy, I don't know, man. I guess the thing that I do kind of like is he seems legitimately to be utterly confused about the world around him. And I could see that being like, Asoka's surrounded by so many people who are certain. And the fact that he's really like, I think I'm supposed to hate you, but also I was told to admire you when I was growing up. So like, what's that about?

there's a bit of like a weird as kids they're not caught up in this world of like adult conflict in that way even though she's a frontline soldier um i guess there's that but yeah it's the episode's doing a lot it's doing a lot of good things the fact that they're trying to wedge this in and be like yeah man asoka's never been a boy before i'm like yeah well there's one i guess You're telling me that she hasn't met another, like, kid in Jedi school? You're not allowed. Yeah, well. You can't flirt in Jedi school. You can't. That's what they say. They do say that.

I feel like it would be, you would be, it would be so hard to get shit past because it's like, it's the whole thing. Right. Yeah. Like you would absolutely, Yoda would know immediately if you call feelings. Uh, yeah, imagine Sunoube being like, you're really anxious right now, you're distracting me, but for a different emotion. Right. I don't want to have that conversation with you, Sunoube. I do not.

No. I do not. No. Not with Sunoube. Yeah, let's, I'm not going to feel this in these four walls. There's a little tiny story about dating where it's like, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but the soda fountain down on level six is a pretty nice. place to take a young swain i hate this anyway they go to fucking they go to the the house of commons they go to the uk house of commons against just that the separatist senate yeah i was really

i was struck by this because when we began this episode i realized how much i dislike the design of the Senate and like just how vast it is and everyone's weird little carts and like people coming forward to talk and then everybody else is just sitting there and we always see the same people talking but then like seeing how like intimate the the separatist Senate seem compared to that like it just seemed like the mode of like communication and like how they're talking to each other is so different from how it is in the republic that it must make such like a difference Yeah, it reminded me so much of the sort of common response you see from people who see sessions in the House of Commons in the UK for the first time where people are just like yelling and shouting at each other and are like, yeah, rah, rah, rah, blah, blah, you know, because like that seems like what it's exactly modeled on is that style of raucous open debate and, you know, the chair will recognize and this guy just stands up and is like, well, You know, that style of politicking.

But I think another thing that I put in perspective to me is just the difference in, I mean, I think Alie was pointing to this, but the difference in scale. Like the fact that you can fit all of the separate, all, I'm assuming all if not most of separatist representatives in one room. And in Corrassant, like the Republic Senate is probably the size of a small fucking. city like yeah it's huge you can't even see everyone in this room you could see everyone good point yeah which yeah go ahead rob i was just gonna i think the thing that really stands there too is we see a really pointed line they draw and it's not like what is the difference between the separatists uh like state and i think they called like the confederacy of it's yeah yeah not great confederacy of independent systems yeah

we shouldn't have chosen confederacy and they didn't know it was a long time ago so they didn't know what would happen they didn't know that yeah this was before and then they got it from this actually yeah this is one of the six flags over texas by the way is the confederate systems flag yeah um you gotta go over a patreon to get that joke so what's the difference that they that they draw that's important to them uh it's when just six flags it any time before 2017.

Sorry, continue. So, after Buntary proposes, like, peace talks, one of the, like, members of parliament is like, yo, the banking clan is never going to let this, let that fly.

And somebody shoots back, this is a democracy, and unlike the Republic, corporations do not rule us. I started laughing. so hard. It's enticing because like I think just

to the point you've made about the republic is vast it's ineffectual it's opaque like it's always the same people talking where the levers of power who is wielding them we don't know who is actually running the show

clearly not actually the senators in many cases or at least not most of them and here in the, like, separatist parliament, the line they draw is, well, we still rule ourselves. We, like, we convene, we debate, and we actually don't have to care what corporations want us to do, which I think is an interesting notion of, like, whatever Filoni is sort of laying out there about, like, how these people all got sold on, like, being breakaways, the idea that there's state capture that they just take for granted that's happened in the republic is really interesting.

I, there's a thing, you know, it's obviously a little bit laughable when the next scene is the dude who is their chairman, Duku, then meeting with the corporate alliance to be like, don't worry, I've taken care of it. But I think that it's important, there can be times when you do a sort of, when you're doing this sort of analysis that you make a move towards totalization in which you say, in which you almost overestimate how powerful the gravity of, of the current status quo is. And I think it's fundamentally useful for fictions about power to spend a moment to show something outside of the established configuration of what that power looks like. So in this case, it's worth seeing that in how whatever they're behind the scenes relationships are, in the separatist Senate, they raise this and then they pass it very quickly. They don't, it doesn't, no one goes back.

there's no time for money to get involved no one gets beat up um this is a world in which you you shout it out inside of this hall and a vote happens um and they managed to pass this this fucking thing uh that is distinct from the galactic center for all the reasons you all have been pointing out like that is just a difference and it doesn't mean that it uh i mean that's the other thing that happens when you when you talk about the way power works like yes corporations are also powerful inside of the separatists obviously but they're wielding that power in different ways and it's important not to to assume that power, whether that power is capital or some other form of power,

operates identically across all contexts. And so it's useful to see here that, yeah, the way that the power gets used in these two spaces is much different. Because in the Galactic Senate, it's able to be wielded out in public. You know, they're able to just be like, yeah, you're going to have to deregulate the banks and give us more power and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't feel like they have that footing inside of the separatists at this point. I mean, is it just that that is more... obfuscated, like, in the sense that the representatives of the Confederacy of independent systems aren't aware of the influence.

I think that there is, if that's an, but I think that that's an important distinction. I think that if you, or it limits certain verbs is a way to think about it. If you're able to act in public, that gives you a certain sort of power that you can wield alongside your obfuscated power, which is what the best. the corporate alliance has inside the republic they're working in both channels there if they're unable to work in both channels in the separatists that is a difference do you know like i don't think they're making up their inability to act in public with greater success in private or something do you know what i mean um i mean this is the other half of this that we don't get from these episodes unfortunately

is like what is life like on separatist systems when you're not dealing with whatever a countess or whatever Monterey is. Because are people starving? Are people well fed? Are people's needs being met? Because that would answer a lot of the associated questions about what their relationship with, what their economic relationships look like. Well, I guess, yeah.

I guess the one thing that I thought of was the separat seizure of the pacifist mere cat planet. Like, is that how much? much of separatist war strategy and occupation is discussed in this hall? Like how much of that, you know, do these, do these representatives have, are they generals? Do they have, you know, like contributions to the separatist army or, yeah, I guess just Or is it working the way it happens in this episode where the Sith just decides some shit behind the backs of everybody, right? Which I guess if Faloni's making the claim that, you know, in the Faloni zone that there are lots of people who left the Republic because, for legitimate reason, because they saw a better world for themselves or, you know, their constituents in a non-Republic state.

I feel like it's more the latter of trying to, like, the Confederacy is getting played too, I guess. Yeah. I think that's the case for sure. Like, and I think it is a crucial difference that, you know, in the Republic, stuff goes to Palpatine's desk and it just mysteriously dies, right? here it seems like they have to stage an entire false flag terror attack to kill this thing and they do the same thing in the republic but like they do need to win a popular

support like critical mass whereas like you always get the sense that they would have had to really try hard to force Palpatine's hand to get any sort of piece overture through where it seems like the parliament is pretty on board with it I do have a theory as well that like it's been sort of suggested that most of the republics like productive

like technologically and financially like powerhouse planets have bailed with the separatists and so to a degree you can see it as like a bit of a plutocratic revolt but at the same time it does seem like okay so just because of who broke away the separatists might not have the dependency

on the banking clan because more of its member states have like functioning economies, whereas the Republic is just, like, feeding planets to the wolves at this point to try and keep its books balanced. You know, they're already paying like 10% interest, about to go 25. So they leave, the motion goes through. I do love that the bankers, the techno union, trade federation, they're all kind of panicking, like, hey, this is going way too far.

And Duku gives them a great line. After our attack, the chances of peace will disappear. The banking clan, the techno union, the trade federation will all get their fair share. And then some. It's like cool. Like all these guys just stick in their heads in the lion's mouth. Yeah. It's also in response to someone who says, we need fighting to feed the machine and our profits.

It's just like, again, anyone who. He's a subtext as a coward, like, it's just all the way out there. Senator Sam's tweeting it out. He says it's so chipper, too. It's like, one of my favorite lines in this episode. So the part that kills me is Pan May is so excited. She rushes straight to the chancellor's office to push to head off the spell and extend peace overtures. and first he tells something

which seems like a provably false lie which is we've tried to negotiate with them they just never every time we reach out a hand it gets slapped away it's like

get details pad mac I want to see the report on what those overtures were but then instead like that that poorly baited hook she's like well

I am certain that this offer is real because you're not going to tell anyone about this, right? It was my friend, Mina Bontary. And I was like, you just killed her and probably that kid. Yeah. They're dead, no. Good job.

I bet that kid comes back because they're sell to you, Soka shit. Here's what fucks be out. And this might be like too much of a question about logistics. But like Padmey knows that it's illegal to talk to the separatists. Who made that rule? probably Senator Palpatine so why is he the one person you're talking to about this

he just committed a felony like what do you think about how he's got that pass she thinks she's got that Palpatine Nebu right he always he always be signing shit like oh my dear Padne

I always it's a shame that I have to sign this barbaric law into legality but that's democracy isn't it. So I bet she thinks she's on good terms with him all the time. Which is just, I mean, he literally in the next fucking episode is like, well, guys, looks like we gotta pass it. Bye. That's the end of that. That is the end of that. That is that on that. And Padmaid literally still in her little pod. Just like, you don't think that's a little convenient how quickly. And then, yeah. And then after they're going to go have tea and his little

office and he'd be like, oh, Padme. That's exactly it. That's how he is. I guess I'm just... I'm surprised we haven't gotten to her not trusting him yet. But I guess there's time we're going in life. It has to wait until fucking revended

the sin. Fair. Isn't it even going to be there? We have 400 more episodes of this show. It's not true. We do not have 400 more episodes. Bet. Her last word.

A hundred more episode. give these children to Palpatine to my friend sheave we have less than 100 episodes oh wow it's 133 episodes we're on episode 50 something right 33

yeah well it's going to take her 133 episodes to even get an inkling that he's up to some some such shit true this is just a bad this is the revenge of the Sith problem You know, here's the thing. I'd rather have to wait because the thing that it would be unbearable would be if she, this episode was like, I don't trust Sheave.

And we'd live with her not trusting him for four seasons and never being able to do anything about it. I'd be like, I guess I just can't ever talk to Anakin about this because it would go bad. And she just like sits on it. It'd be bad. And this is still fairly early. Again, Ano's alive. Like a lot of things haven't happened. True, true, true.

Like, he's doing a better job at feigning. like non-Sithhood, I guess. Sure. Okay, wait, now I have another question because now I'm fucked up about this. Because I'm sympathetic for the Kurosat people because, like, did this attack happen before after the Zillow-be stuff? Because that's a rough time for Kurosat. Well, like, it's wild that in this episode,

they're like, we've never been attacked. We've never been a thousand years since we've been attacked, which is like, that supposedly lines up with the previous war between the Jedi and the Sith a thousand years ago. But like, yeah, the Zillow Beast was just here. Mad people be trying to assassinate senators all the time.

And by people, I mean, Mandalorians and separatists. Like, it's not like there isn't, you know what I mean? Yeah. Zillow Beast happened already. So this is post-Zillow beast. Wow, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Well, people should be on to this then. And also, Yeah, then I probably wouldn't have said Corrason's... Hostage crisis... Hostage crisis just happened. Really?

Pad Bain was just... The last... Chronologically... And again, this is why I'm not always on this chronological tip is... Supposedly. Okay, the last shit,

a set of things that have happened is pretty in line with where we're at, which is that shit happens on Mandelor. You know, Asoka goes to Mandelor and Padmae goes to Mandelaerlore. All that shit happens. There's the bit with Alderon.

They go to Alderan. That happens. Then it is all of evil plans hostage crisis hunt for zero. And then it's this. So all that zero shit happens, including Cadbane taking Padmaid hostage. She was just, she and Ono, this week for Uncle Ono is just miserable. two days ago Cad Bain is out here

also that motherfucker Rubonino or whatever his name is the little bounty hunter dude who beats him up it's the same dude I just saw you you were with Cat Bain

two days ago how did you get a different job from a different dude and it's still ends when you beat my ass bro maybe it's better for okano to have left it was not looking good for that guy

on fucking chorus on bad vibes he goes home he finds that little fish man has just moved in does that mean uncle ono's going to die like tomorrow yeah literally that's the next episode the chronology is I also skipped one the chronology is

The assassin shit with Padme Happens, Wednesday. Thursday is Fear of Influence. Papa Papa Noida His family gets kidnapped. So again, that just happened. The separatists just attacked and stole your people. Different bounty hunters.

Also, bounty hunters are on the loose. They should have saved a bounty hunter name for this season. Bounty hunters kidnapped Papanoida's kids. Assook we got them back. Who rushed back home. Evil plants, hostage, This is hunt for zero. Heroes on both sides. Pursuit of Peace. Senate murders. That week is just broken. Obviously, maybe this happened like weeks apart. But whatever that, nope. That session. Yeah.

It's too much. It's too condensed. That's not. That's when you know. They're like, we got to get through this time skip. We got to get through it. Just put it all on. In retrospect, we see so like, That fucking, like, shitty detective giving Senate testimony after all is done and dust it. And he was like, you know, in retrospect, the system was blinking red. Also, I looked closer, and the thing that happened literally right before the academy and corruption, canonically, was the Boba Fett shit. Was Boba Fett?

Boba Fett gets arrested on Sunday. Like, oh, busy week. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That is... It's wild. Anyway, we should move on. The news is buzzing.

The news. Calpateen's face has got to go, and we need a newscaster up there talking about everything is fucked out here. This is when they invented CNN for... Well, the TVs won't be on for long, because right as the Senate is beginning to debate, picking up these peace negotiations a brutal terror attack unfold in which we just see these droids

flip into their like assassin droid mode and massacre a bunch of unarmed workers and in a real God punch one of them thinks like he survives the first wave he grabs a gun and he's like he's tries. He's going to get the word out he's going to do something and he just stands up, takes a shot

at the armored up droid and just gets like demolished and so yeah a horrific massacre and then the droids do kind of a cool like tandem like let's blow ourselves up thing yeah

it's like each one is the half of a piece of gum from the beginning of Mission Impossible you know what I'm talking about we're a great scene Ali is not because I reference that shit all the time and knows that I don't actually believe anyone but me remembers it but The green and red gun?

This is what I'm saying. Green means go. You know? Sorry. What's the guy he's sitting with in that scene? Oh, fuck. What's his name? He has like a good name.

Yeah, it's like K name or something. But it's not Crycheck, because that's Xbox. That's a... Is that true? I just say that's a different... It's not Xbox. My favorite character on Xbox is Alex's Crychick. I don't remember.

So we get that, this massacre unfolds, they shinra the entire. Kitridge, great name. Great name. Yeah, Kidridge, yeah. Kitridge, that's like an American girl doll. Yeah, it's her. She's a spy in the Mission Impossible series. Oh, okay, that's awesome.

They gender swap her, though. His name's Eugene, so it's like the same character, but like, you know. Yeah. Which is kind of a functionary. A little bit of a bureaucratic hack. Kit from American Girl doll. This one, I remember being... Oh, yeah, she's from the 1930s.

She's... She's a reporter. Yeah, she's a reporter. I don't look at her. Well, that's cool. Congrats. That's a cool job. Yeah.

As a five-year-old, that's pretty lit. He doesn't say, yeah. I'm making babies. Anyway, all these people died. tons of people die the power plant turns out power plants on Corrassant are just giant spark plugs

and they just slam the two of them together and all hell breaks loose and yeah it appears to start like a huge chain reaction the entire like surface of the city the faces the sky like surrounding the Senate it looks like the sort of artificial

tectonic plates that Corrassan sits on has just been completely ruptured and blown to pieces. It's very, I guess, very foundation, episode one in some ways, too. It's big. It's, uh, yeah. Go ahead. Just the fact that like, fucking six cleaning bots were able to get all the way in the most important room on the fucking planet.

Yeah. And without, uh... Planet's too big. You know what I'm saying? This happens on floor 5,000, and it's like, all right, well, you can't protect it all, can you? There's too many floors. There's too many floors. There's too many floors.

Floor 5,000. Get out of here. Yeah. You could do that damage from floor 505. You know what are you going to do? Anyway, it's wild because everything turns dark. There's fighting in the streets. There's like some dope shots of just Corrissant on fire.

We get these big wide screens of just like smoke across the city. it's like damn yeah and that's it for the peace vote everyone just immediately is like you know emergency lighting we got to obviously we have to deregulate the banks right now our city is under siege but all of our little senate scooters still work it's important that's democracy so yeah we uphold democracy the thing is it's not totally like that doesn't totally force the issue with the bill because the next episode pursuit of peace opens it's they just do the deregulation They don't pass the bill. Oh, they don't do that of us. They split it. It's not a two-part bill. It's a one part. They could only get through the one-half.

I don't understand the makeup of the center. They ran out of pressure paper for the second half of the bills. They're like, all right, well, we just got to do the first half. Don't worry. We'll get to the second bit. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. Well, no, because it's like, we're going to vote on peace, and then there's an attack.

Right. And then they're like, we're not fucking doing it. not. But then there are people who are like, we should, we should be thinking about peace though. But then Duke is like, nah, you, okay, we should actually get to do this because they really skim over the fact that Coruscant gets attacked. And then immediately the Republic also attacks the separatists, supposedly. So that's the next episode, right? This ends, you're right. The end of this episode of Heroes on Both Sides, which by the way was originally titled banking conspiracy and they later brought it back and called it heroes on both sides

is Palpatine yeah Palpatine says we must deregulate the banks but that vote hasn't happened yet and I remember this now because the first thing that happened one of the first things that happens in the next episode is that Baylorgana realizes he can stall by asking for the CBO score on the bill he has to see how much is going to put us in deficit he's going to see it wants to see the real numbers he and he's studied from the best of them and knows that that's a a valid technique. This episode actually ends with, and it could be like,

you went too far this time. I can't believe you went to the separatist planet and Osookka is like, what are you talking about? We go too far. You go too far all of the time. That is who you are. And he's like, no, this is it.

This was too far. I've decided. And she's like, well, I learned one thing. Politics of this war, not as black and white as I once thought they were. And that's a lesson. No, they are. They are.

Anyway, who wants sushi? And then they walk away as a family. I do. I want sushi. The next episode, we go straight back into debate. They're pushing the bill. And we get a whole little pantomime from Palpatine up there where he's like, breaking news from the separatist parliament. Meena Bontari.

Which we're not allowed to talk to, by the way. Yeah. Mina Bon Terry Oh yeah And also he just puts He puts Duku up there He's like new message from Duku just dropped Uh huh

And like boom Straight address Let's just not even vet this Just straight through Mina Buntary's killed The clones showed up And just fucked up her whole family No

We killed her a bunch of people We don't know who else is dead Did the clones do it? No No The separatists did it The Sith did it Yeah

Yeah yeah Ventrists is out there Absolutely killing these motherfuckers Yeah But he says... But he says it's the Republic. The Republic attacked one of our cities in retaliation, which is like, everybody in the Senate just accepts that that happened?

Yeah, no one is like, uh, excuse me? Yeah, we didn't do that. No one, like, talk to someone from the city? Like, you don't have one friend from the city? I guess the thing is, it doesn't matter if they believe it or not, because all that... The only people who matters about is the separatists in it, right? But Bontary lives in the...

In the headquarters. Yes. in the headquarters of the whole fucking thing. Yeah, but that just happened on Corrassan, too. Right. But that happened in a power generator. This woman was probably killed in her own home. Yeah, but that home didn't have security.

We saw that house. We get context for this at least immediately after where Bail is like, okay, she was killed, but we know it was Duku who did it. And like, at least there's those modes of communication, right? where I bet everybody knows better than to think that it really happened

except for the separatists Right not the separatists Yeah yeah yeah that's what I'm saying That's what I'm saying yeah yeah But nobody can talk Pat like everybody is sort of Stuck within their propagandized spheres Right

The separatists are now saying We said that we want a peace And now we don't because you killed this person Yeah And the Republic is saying Well we were considering peace But you attacked us Right

I guess we also attacked you. That's where it doesn't make sense, where it's like, they accept that there was a retaliation also that the separatists are like the true aggressors. I don't know that they accept that there was, I don't know that we get, like, no one out loud says, well, that's not true because they don't care if it's true or not. Do you know what I mean? I mean, and even if you are to make the claim that it's true, what, like, that's not a hill to die on in this world.

Like, it doesn't mean anything to say, Duke who killed one of the. own. Okay, cool. Like, we are already against this fool. Like, we don't like him anyways. So it doesn't, it doesn't, they already aren't legitimizing the opposition. So it doesn't make a difference that the opposition is self-sabotaging. Like, right. It, yeah, it doesn't. But you're right that the things that people shout immediately after this alley are like, we must not show weakness and not, what the fuck is he talking about? Right. Like, we were just about to vote on this actual peace thing. Right. Well, this is the thing that confuses me about the makeup of this entire Senate is, if this, if peace is that close, you would imagine that there would be other vocal

stakeholders who want to know if she was actually killed by Republic forces. Because then they'd be like, you, like, whichever general has said yes to that, you've just torpedoed our chances at peace. And supposedly, they only need six votes to enact something, which means that there are hundreds of people in the Senate who agree with Padmay and bail, but where are they and where are their voices when a thing like this happened? So like to your point, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. It's like, you would imagine someone would be like, hey, can we get a committee please on whether or not we like extrajudiciously killed this, this senator, this peaceful senator who was trying to like reach out an olive branch to us, but no one seems to do that

on screen, at least. Not even Padmae. Anyway. She's busy, I guess. Yeah, wow. She is busy, because she and Organa sort of divide responsibilities here where Urgana, like, Bail Organa is, I guess, the wonk of the bunch. Yes.

She's like, you're going to lead the fight on the merits against, like, the dollars and cents, CBO scoring of this bill. Meanwhile, she and Uncle Otto are going to. get to the bottom of what are the terms being offered by the banking clan? They're to do research while Organa is marshaling his arguments. And so they go to the banking

a meeting, by the way, that absolutely could have been an email. That was a ridiculous meeting. They show up like how much it shows you about a chart? Twenty-five percent. Really? Okay then. We got to go. We got to go figure some shit out. You could put that on the

fucking website. Y'all didn't even need to email me. You could have said, here's what our average rates are and I would have been like I think I'm all right yeah I mean they could have had a whole ass calculator just put in the republic credit score and you get that shit right quick well so he got they go to him and he says this is this is the this is the 10% to 25% jump and they're like that's ridiculous and he's like well the separatists don't seem to mind a price increase or you know an interest hike uh and they've just ordered enough money they've just you know borrowed enough money to make 3 million more battle droids.

Which is just wild. Like the fact that this conversation is like, they're like, yeah, we just gave them 300 million more walking guns. Like, what are you going to do about it? How? I just think it's bad business to tell one side. Maybe it's good business. And maybe that's the point.

Yeah, that's the sales pitch. You're saying this guy has 3 million. You better buy 4 million. I mean, this is basically what the United States tried to do before like World War I, like Transatlantic trade was shut down to Germany. like the U.S. was definitely there being like hey look we got guns enough for all

the bidding starts at and then blockade it's like well I guess we know who's a good guy's up it's the people who can pay yep so the yeah they discover

the interest rate is real bad meanwhile though Duke who's got a plan B here, which is they're just going to start whooping the shit out of senators who seems shaky on this vote. And so, poor Uncle

Anno, he gets it. And he's not going to be the only one. And it's implied that this is sort of a widespread like senators in the like dove wing of the Senate are just getting like wrecked around Coruscant. And everyone's just like, wow, it's really that's just the dangers of being a dove I guess

well it's not even just that because remember they meet the one dude the one dude gets his ass kicked and then he's like well I'm voting for more troops and she's like what they beat you up why like don't back down and he's like I believe in more troops I always was got to vote for more troops this isn't about me getting my ass kicked like all right well they're just out here indiscriminate sign of messages is that the guy who said that all the separatists were animals in the the previous episode because I think That sounds right.

That might have been him. That did get sad. We should note, too, that Padman gets called a traitor loudly by hundreds of people at the beginning of this episode for being the one who's like, but wait, what if we peace still instead? It doesn't make sense that, you know, did this happen? This was a false flag. Everyone is not happy about that claim. Also, so Argana, like, lays up the stakes here really clearly where he's like, if this bill goes through, if the banks get what they want, It doesn't matter if we win, which is an interesting framing as well.

It's what Austin sort of laid out at the start here, which is, like, it doesn't, like, once this goes through, the outcome of the war is kind of mooted because the Republic no longer exists as, like, a self-governing entity, which is kind of an interesting thing where it's laying out, like, you can have the forms of government preserved, but they're so in hoc by interests that effectively now it's all just a, like, masquerade. and you're basically just being the entire thing is engineered to serve corporate interests not any of the people the government's allegedly there to serve so Padme and Anno go out canvassing for votes

Padma's security team has not improved in recent years which we'll get to but they meet they go and talk to let's call it let's say a very realistic senator about what's going on in the galaxy

and y'all were very excited about the scene so uh alley or austin perhaps one of you would like to take us through what goes on here this is senator christo senator christo is a corian i think it's not no corin corin is mass effect

corin is star wars much different um he uh they're one of the squid people type of of of a aliens. He owned squids, by the way. I'm sorry to interrupt with this, but that fuck me up. That is a important note. That is a dark. What?

Yeah. He's a big aquarium in the back. He's feeding them. They come in. He's feeding the squirrel. I think that's his babies and then they. Oh, it's possible. I read yesterday that Gungan start as tadpoles.

There you go. You just, you know. Yeah. Brogu would just go ham on that. So Grogo would eat all of them motherfuckers. Anyway, they roll. up and are like, hey, you know, we really would love if you could support us on this. And he's like, why would I do that?

Like, what, I wrote this whole thing down. He says, what does ideology matter at this point? Is it worth being beaten to death? Look at what they did to you. And Ono says, these wounds will heal. But what about the millions who are dying in this war? And Christo says out loud, who? The clones?

we created them for just that purpose. And Padmey goes, they're people. And Christo says, the people I care about are my constituents, the ones who put me in office. And Ono says, and one was the last time you spoke to your people? And Christo says, probably the last time you did, or you, Senator. And Padmei and Ono look at each other, knowing that he's exactly 100% right.

And they try to give like a big spiel after that. And finally they're like, what if bail or Ghana said something smart about this and he was on our side he actually says well where's organa stand on this yeah he's like I don't want to vote for a woman like what is bail or god uh and so they're like well if if own if if if failed gives a good speech will you will you do and he's like I said I'd listen to what he has to say but the core of that conversation is just laying it all out there this is the I can't believe he tweeted it out moment of just like

they don't care about the clones they do not care and he's someone who they think they can convince on this yeah that's the wild part is that they went they went to him thinking that they were going to get a vote out of this

presumably if the terrorist attack doesn't happen if the bombing doesn't happen he votes with them right he's probably one of those people who was ready to vote peace was he though why would he be ready to vote peace I don't, with this attitude. Well, he also doesn't seem to give a shit about the war, though.

Like, he doesn't care. He, I think what he cares about is probably, if he's interested in what Bail has to say, he's interested in arguments about the broader stability of the Galactic Republic. And Bail is going to, you know, is planning to make that speech. What he's, and the reason I think about stability with him is, the thing that he cares about is, am I going to die? Am I going to remain in power? Are my constituents going to vote for me again?

Or am I going to get beat up? Because if the threat of him, getting beat up or blown up is what's putting him off, then that's mostly what he cares about. And so I think that he's the sort of person who would have voted for peace because he thinks that the cost of continuing the war puts him at risk long term, puts the Republic. Right. So, like, he's not like a, he's not a dove. He doesn't have an ideological interest in peace. What he has is an interest in remaining in power and voting alongside whatever side comes out in the win in the, in the wash, right? So, but it's wild. Just have them say that

outright to make it very clear that as we thought that the senators, not just orange-free ta, but that senators writ large are out of touch with their people, are not spending time together, then the rest of this episode happens, which is infuriating. It kind of bugs me that like

this is so kind of shocking to Padmei that like this is how the clones are regarded and it's like this is why you're allowed to fight this war at all. It's because it's not costing anyone, anything. Like, nobody that anybody knows or cares about is being sent off to fight unless you are in the direct path of like separatist invasion forces.

But the other, like the other part of this is that he's also enunciating the way the all volunteer military was used at various phases throughout the, I mean, it's always been used this way since they changed it to an all volunteer military. but, like, you know, in the late, in the mid-2000s, like, none of the wars were going well, and they never would be, but one of the arguments you would hear routinely about, like, well, what about these soldiers being sent off to be stuck in these endless occupations with no, like, clear strategy where you're just kind of, like, waiting to be attacked and killed? The response was frequently, like, quite vociferously, they signed up for this.

um like they knew what they were getting into shut down et cetera and that was even applied to national guard units which was really interesting because that was murky right like national guard mission is different like people in that the national guard are not at the time did not expect to be frontline combat troops for periods like national guard do a lot of like civil support and it's it's worth saying a lot of the people voicing these i don't give a fuck because volunteers were that was not part of a broader anti-imperial no worldview this was not as as a good leftist i oppose anyone who would enact the violence of the state uh in my experience this was and this is the people who love the troops this is well it's the people who love the it's both

the people who love the troops and then the other side of it is it's the liberal like it's like the liberal insurance you know adjuster who thinks that only stupid hicks sign up for the military and like fuck them they wanted to go over there fuck them if they die over there then fuck them and that's like if you want to believe that because it's part of a broader worldview that like gets you somewhere in terms of a broader critique of again of america as an imperial estate that is one thing but this was not like a well thought out perspective this was i don't care about poor people and the military is poor people um so that and then the other side of it like you said rob is the they're dying for us out there

Like the rah-rah, they're heroes, and every death is a victory, in a sense, because it's someone who's gotten to martyr themselves for America, right? Well, it was one of those things I also gave the game with the disingenuousness of, like, pro-troop sentiment, right? Which was, troops are heroes, troops are the best of us, et cetera. But when, like, you had things like stop-loss policies, extending people on deployment longer than they were signed up for National Guard units being sent out again and again, the response was, what right do they have to complain they volunteered for this? So it's like, you know, if you were an anti-war voice and critiquing the progress of the war, you were a traitor. But if you were a militarist and you were like, soldiers should just be kept on the front line until their dad of the mission's complete and I don't care because they signed up, then you were supporting the mission. And so he's very representative of a strain of like political thought at the time, which was basically the,

like military personnel or not people that we have to think about in terms of like cost or loss. It's worth, it's also worth, you know, a lot of this probably sounds familiar to some degree because of the sort of like heroism theater of the last two years of living under COVID and all of the like, oh, our heroes, the service workers and the nurses. And it's like, okay, well, like, how about you pay people better and make sure that they have the gear that they need and, et cetera. And Like, those material asks were not always met. I'm not going to hear much about that with the Kaiser Permanente strike looming. Going to get real fucking quiet.

The second it turns into actual labor rights and actual demands, like, she gets quiet. So. Yep. But Padme takes this to heart. Oh. Padmey takes this to heart and is like, damn, I haven't talked to the people in a while. First, she has to go to speed or bike chase. I'm sorry.

I forgot. I forgot, which is what the Filoni zone ends up being about. I didn't record it because it's, the Flonny Zone on this one was about two things. One is about this speeder bike chase, adding a little zip to the episode. He was basically dancing around over and over again being like, you know, we were making a show for kids and it's about like bank deregulation. And so I was really happy that this guy who George knew was. the director of this episode. He once dressed up

as Boba Fad at a live event. I'm understalling who this guy is. This guy is, I'm going to find his actual name. Dwayne Dunham. Yeah, Dwayne Dunham who worked as like, who worked on the original Star Wars films as like an editor

basically and also dressed as Boba Fett for like some live events. If you ever see there's an all white version of Boba Fett out there, he was the one in that suit because he was the right height for it for when they needed to do a photo shoot or a video or something in the late 70s. Anyway, he directed this episode because apparently Lucas likes to have live action. People come on to Clone Wars at this point and just do some stuff.

Oh, some episodes. Uh-huh. I was just noting seeing that the animation was like really dynamic in this episode and there was like much more like gesture work. Yes. And now these pieces are coming together. Do wonder if some of that comes from Dunham being a director because the Flolone's own is like Dunn did a really good job on this and introduced this entire chase sequence.

Again, he kept saying the word Zip multiple times. Like, the right amount of Zip to this episode. Which I just thought that maybe we'd go a little deeper on other stuff, but no, it's fine. Filoni's recurring disinterest in the political themes

of the show kind of made me wonder where is it all coming from? Who is doing this? Like in the writer's room are they like Hey put a motorcycle chase in there He'll distract him He'll love it He'll eat that shit up

Or is he playing a long con And he's very aware But is like Just like What am I supposed to talk about Lightaber circles? Alright got it Okay the question then

Because who wrote the Who wrote the Herzog speech At the end of Season 1 of Mandalorian? Who is the who gets writer There's credits on that episode. Because that, I think, was the hell. Follone is, like, writing that episode. And Herzog makes the case for, like, the empire as...

Neoliberal order. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Good question. I don't know if he has any writing credits on that show, because I think it's... Oh, he does have some.

Favre writes all but one episode. All but two episodes. I don't think it's the one... but I'll look and do it after this episode after we record so yeah we do get yeah Padma security not great I'm pretty sure her guard

despite the fact that people try to blow her up I'm pretty sure he's watching his iPad and just gets worked he sucks and then Ono is like do you want me to give you your eyes home this is a fucked up thing

maybe Ono doesn't want to be it alone right now Right. Padmae, what are you going to be here for Uncle Oro? Wrote the signals, right? I was, like, do you want to ride home? But you're right. I think he was like, I would love the company. He couldn't bring himself to say it because it's hard to speak the truth when you're hurt. You want to all here and maybe turn out of the lights.

Right? He should have driven her home. He should have walked her to the car. I mean. Right. The other hand of that is they should have just parked next to each other. Yeah, why didn't they park next to me? Why did she park?

Also, they know that they're getting jumped. That's the thing. Padma's, whenever shit is going down and Padmae's being actively targeted by bounty hunter, she's always like, no, it's okay. I enjoy fresh air. Ready to die. Let me walk down this dark alley.

She has a death wish. She has. Ready to die. She says it. That's true. Since the moment she met him. Well, I've been thinking about this since the last dark with her getting assassinated. And like, she had a hand.

she didn't actually get assassinations yeah we get it you know the attention etc um she's been having body doubles since she was like 10 she's been prepared to be assassinated like this is her the woman were about to meet the character about to meet looks a little bit like her even i'm saying that's what i'm like you couldn't call cure nightly instead of the betty joined but that's last week we don't have to talk about that anymore um she has this moment with her current hairdresser, her handmaiden

By the way, by the way, by the way, by the way, that's a helmet. I told you it was wigs, didn't I tell you it was wigs? I told you it was wigs. I knew it was wigs. It's real good. All her hair, wigs. That's fine.

Yeah? Yeah. I've lived that life. A little skippery blast boat. Listen, I mean, I get it. I feel like it's efficient. It makes sense. But like,

Man, how did it take season three episode whatever to do the helmet reveal? So, I will say, I do enjoy that the first cops on the scene, botch it, and like almost get Pad, like, to basically completely blow the situation, get killed. Padme has to sort of escape herself, and then the second wave of cops just arrest her. And don't even look for She gets on her at Grand Theft Auto She's like, I need this She literally steals a bike From in front of people who are walking to the bike

Which And then she does pull some real She plays her privilege card When the cops corner her finally And she was like, I'm a senator I arrest them Hold on I demand you arrest them

If I fled a political assassination I am also being like I am a senator arrest that man I am doing that. Yeah, you know, I think I'm with you, and then the rest of this episode happens. So, Padmae just getting them L's this episode. And the show thinks they're doves. They really, it really does.

It's so unfortunate. We meet, we meet Tecla Manow, her new handmaiden and assistant. Who is helping her out. So are you saying Tecla Manow just remind us? reminds me of how she opens or speech. I know. I know. We'll get there. Also, her name, by the way, is, I'm going to, this is some fun trivia. Tecklin Manow, is that her, is it Manow? Is that how she pronounces it? Couldn't tell you. I think, I'm just going to say it. Her name was pieced together over time

for multiple sources. Nathan Hamill, the son of Mark Hamill, who played Luke Skywalker. Yeah, we know, was a Naboo Extra in episode one. He unofficially named his character Retool Manow, but the name did not appear in any continuity. Later, the script to episode two referred to the server at the Nabut Lake Retreat as Tecla, but gave her no surname. Now, that's all great. Here's the fucking killer. In 2008, a Star Wars.com user with the screen name Shadowcultist fleshed out Tecla's backstory and gave her the last name Manow, which is now her last name as spoken in the Clone Wars.

Wow. That's a fucking dub for Shadow Cultus. Hey, Shadow Cultus. Shadow Cultus did not get paid. You got to know. And what if Shadow Cultus is Faloni? Oh.

No. No. No. But I love these, like, moments of, like, the fandom being able to be like, they took that from us. They took that from us. They did with the Minow or stuff, yeah. Right?

Right. I don't know. I think the fandom should be routinely discouraged. forcing like in 2009 the Orboros was fine I don't know so much

about today but yeah things have changed other thing his real I got his real name he wrote

some other stuff for Star Wars com at some point apparently so Evan Berger wrote the backstory for the Abith and co-wrote

the backstory on Sillia Shes-S-S-S-A-U-N appearing in the database through the What's the Story feature of hyperspace? His alias is shadow cultist on Star Wars.com. What's the story was a feature in the fan club

that gave hyperspace members a chance to leave their mark on the EU by allowing them to provide the backstory for certain aspects of the saga. Usually obscure background characters or vehicles from the film. Winning entries became official Star Wars lore published in the beta bank.

I love to crowdsource lore. I love it. Incredible. This is great because this has all the author names, and it's all just like Grand Admiral Sean 8. So my first encounter with the Star Wars fandom, by the way, I was so excited. I had just gotten on the internet and figured out how to make, how to escape AOL to get on the internet and outside of the AOL like garden. The outer rim. Yeah.

And I was like, Bantam Books has a chat area forum where people can talk about books, Star Wars books. You have to understand I was very young. And so the first thing I did, I went right over there, and I made a thread. True. And I was like, what do people think is the best, who is the best Star Wars book author, huh? And everyone was like, shut the fuck up. We already know what Timothy's on.

Dumb little shit. Hey, maybe check to see if a topic's ever come up before before you started doing, asshole. This is how you learned things. I mean you stayed on that form, but you do not to ask those questions? No, I did not go. I did not stick to me.

I've never had a moral or aesthetic lesson more strong than when my online RP group told me as like a 13-year-old that the only, time I ever had let bad things happen to my character in Open RP was because I wanted to give them a cool upgrade. The only time your mec ever blows up is so you can get a fucking new upgrade out there the next

time we play. And I was like, damn, you're right. And it's like, in my head is one of the great fuck-ups of my life. Truly. My first internet friends group was in an AOL chat called Final Fantasy 7 trivia. But you would go in there and you would ask questions about Final

Fantasy. And then they would all bully everybody because it was a Trivia, one of the eyes is an L and they kept being like that's not what the chat's about. What are you doing? So it was Trivla? Trivla?

I don't know how to pronounce that. Trivla? I guess. Because you take out the second eye. You check out the second eye. I see Trivla. Wow. Got them. This is what happens on the web, man. I still

don't know. Her handle was Nomi Sunrider. And I'm like, in retrospect, in retrospect, I'm like, who the fuck are you, you Kevin J. Anderson, like, reading Sack a Trash to call out me, Red 5, who we all know was Luke Skywalker during the Yavin Death Star run? And you're out there being like, I'm just a fan of Nomi Sunrider. a garbage tier character from Luke Skywalker's Dipshit Academy that like is just one fuck up after another that's who's like big-timing me

eat shit, Nomi Sorry, let's stay a real out here Y'all Yumbies didn't have it like this Anyway, you're on Tumblr So Padme's Handme Oh my God, we've due the rest of this episode It'll be fast I guess she, this is the fucked up thing about the seed

because I think that she's like very minorly trying to console her but then gets wrapped up in this like all night our conversation but anyway So you're exactly right She's like are you good because like I'm not like It's a degree of like she needs to go home But she knows that her boss has gotten into a real fucked up situation She's close to her boss

And she's trying to give her a little bit of something And she says good night at one point And that is when Padma is like, Tecla, Let's talk. Tell me something. You know what? Someone today insulted me about how I'm not close. She doesn't say this, but this is what's happening in her mind.

Someone completely called me out. Someone absolutely had my number today. And I'm going to fix it. I'm going to start talking to the people around me. And not just the senators, the real people, like you. She doesn't say this, but this is what she says in her, this is all of her who she is. She asks like how her family is, right? Yeah.

So what happens, the conversation that happens in the show, Tecla is like, you know, you shouldn't be down, Padme, because you're one of the only senators who talked to the real people, like me. I don't know that that's ever happened. We haven't seen that happen on screen. You know, Padmae has never brought that up. And immediately she's like, you're right. I do talk to people.

What's going on in your life? Let's talk about this right now, like for a long time. Yeah. Because I have a speech tomorrow. And Tecla is like, it's only getting worse. And Padma's like, how? Please tell me. Tell me how it's getting worse.

Tell me how I can instrumentalize your family's pain. And I thought that was already pretty bad. I was like, all right, I see where this is going. I get where it's going. I get that what we're going to do is get to a place where Padma is going to go. Bail's not going to be able to deliver the speech, which ends up being true because he gets jumped, obviously. Because, again, everyone's talking too much. Shut the fuck up Fridays.

If Bail or Ghana is your ace in the hole, stop telling people that he's about to give a talk. You got to just be quiet about it. Let him go give his speech. Nobody understands how this world works. Nobody understands. When was Senate murders? Tomorrow. Tomorrow.

Tomorrow. But hostage crisis was yesterday. The hostage crisis is yesterday. Y'all need to shut the fuck up for once. Please. So, so, so. He gets fucked up. He can't do the thing.

He can't just come out like, oh, no, in the sling. He gets fucked up bad. Ono grabs Padmae. Brings Padmae to the other room. It's bail. Bail's like, oh, I'm really fucked up. I'm sorry, Padma. I'm not going to be able to do it.

They can't even put me on hollow. I know that they did that for Count Duku. They couldn't do it for me, though, obviously. So I'm just going to lay back down. I'm sorry, I can't do it. The cops is like, he can't even stand up. We need to take him to the hospital. Ono is like catastrophizing.

Oh, my God. What do we do? Everyone in the Senate is like, we have to take this vote now. We've given them too much time already. and then guy parliamentarian is like with his big horns is like I told Senator Ghana

he could speak and someone finally is like well we need someone to talk from the opposition to this bill and like well all right no one's shown up yet and finally Padmay shows up

and says I will speak on his behalf after I'll pep talk from Tecla Oh she's like I don't know if I can do it and Tecla's like I believe in you boss just gassing her up Absolutely. Also, can I get a bonus? She needs one.

She needs one because it was about to be sad. She deserves it. There's also a little something like condescending about Tecla appears to be wearing a hijab. Now, I don't know about Nabob culture, but like, in general, like, visually it seems to be referencing a hijab. And so there's a bit of like white savior stuff happening here where it's like, tell me of the plight of your people

well it's very it's very kippling in some ways draping a hand over his shoulder like my little brown brother what's your tell me of your woes and how can I help

and Padmey tells everybody in the Senate of her woes Teckla Manow Tecla Manow Tecla is one of my aides like so many of the people that we tell ourselves we're here to serve

Tecla lives in a district presumably of course on that rarely has electricity and running water as a result of the war. Her children can now only bathe every two weeks, and they have no light in which to read or study at night. The Republic has always funded these basic services, but now there are those who would divert the money to war with no thought for what the people need to survive.

If not for people like Tecla and her children, who are we fighting for? My people, your people, all of our people, this war has meant to save them from suffering, not increase it. I support our brave soldiers, whether they come from the clone factories or from any of the thousands of systems loyal to the republic.

But if we continue to impoverish our people, it's not on the battlefield where Duke will defeat us, but in our own homes. Therefore, it is our duty and our responsibility to preserve the lives of those around us by defeating this bill.

Padmay, she works for you. She's your handmaid. Are you fucking kidding me? You could put up... Bro. You're telling me... Look at where you live.

But like... You're telling me that in the last 24 hours, Padmey has now learned that there are masses of constituents who do not have regular running water or electricity. Bro, people who live on Coruscant at the heart of the republic, who work for senators, who are senatorial aides? They live on Corrassant and they don't have... water? Their kids can only bathe once every two weeks. They don't have lights on at night, which by the way, in the middle of the speech, it

cuts to the fucking Chorissant Plaza with all the lights on. And it's like, they've got a fucking hologram of Padmae they can pay for. But people on court, regular people. Middle, upper, like, I don't, let's say

she's just, let's say she's just doing, like, made duty and, like, some hairdressing. She's just Padma's like attendant. Right. She works for the Senate, not for Padma directly. Or yeah, let's say she just works for the Senate. That job still has to be bringing in decent pay compared to what we've seen on people who live on level 10,000.

She works in the Senate. That's a union job. Yeah. It's a government job at the very least. But like how different is it from like being in New York City and being like, oh, you should turn your electricity off? But Times Square is still on. Like the Senate is 100% like that. How does she not know that?

And how is it's happening here? Like, the thing is, it's not just like New York City. Like, it's, it's, because I guess it's a little like New York City if we think of course, or if we think of the Senate as the U.N., but it's like it's much more like being a service worker in D.C. Where, do you know what I mean? Because like it is, which, let me tell you, also service workers all over the world get fucked. Like, I'm not saying that that's not the case. But you can't pretend that that's not, if at the seat of power this is happening, what the fuck is happening on Rodeon?

Mm-hmm. And that's why, like, it frustrates me that the show wants to have its cake and eat it too in this moment, because we spent all of last episode seeing Padme go to a mansion and, like, work this out. Like, she could have went to Tecla's house. We could have spent time with that if that's the thing that was going to be, like, turning this and, like, the focus of... And Tecla's got to be gone, right? Like, we're not ever going to see Tecla again. Highly doubted. This is my guess.

Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, maybe, but not for meaningful. reason. Maybe to teach her another... Techler should blow this whole place out. Maybe she's on that unpaid internship, you don't know. Yeah, maybe.

It is what you said, Allie. It is that they think that this is the most heroic speech she could possibly give. And it is a speech she gives 20 minutes after learning about poverty for the first time. I don't understand it. Poverty.

In her house. In her house. Yes. Yeah. it yeah this woman who you could pay her more

you could literally fucking pay her more you have a villa you have a villa you have a villa multiple villas to the sky you were a queen

right her kids can't bathe her kids can't bathe you could sell one wig those kids would have a jacuzzi in an instant but like

I don't know that she's on pad maze I don't care No, no, no. If you have someone who's putting your hair on you, if you have someone who's putting your hair on you and you're listening to this podcast and you know that they're not getting taken care of, you're being taken care of. You have to take care of them. It is your moral imperative. Or stop listening.

Stop listening to the podcast if you're not going to take care of that person. If you know the situation is bad, it is your moral imperative. Two weeks. It's dirty on Corrassant. I've seen Corrassant. This kids are going two weeks on Choracin without bathing? They better be going two weeks without going outside. Uh-huh.

It is so funny that they think that this is a home run. And it is a home run. But she still loses. Because no one has ever said any of this stuff. But she still fucking loses. Well, she's going to lose, yeah. Right. Is it just because this is all in the margins, right?

Like what's happening on the Republic side is they're saying, hey, because we're paying for the clones, we're cutting all, you know, Republic pay by like 20%. And now all of our like Republic state employees are now making less. And then, you know, we're, we're, you know, issuing out electricity at certain times and, you know, food at certain times because we literally can't pay for this anymore. Right. well which again speaks to how broken the system is that you could have people who have roles like this who live on who live in the imperial core who live in like the center of power and who can't

leave the lights on for their kids at night to read really speaks to how corrupt the system how corrupt the republic is and how broken it is if they can't if they can't do that then how are we expected how should we ever expect them to be able to do anything for the people who are not even on the outer rim mid-rim worlds worlds like again like rhodia like nabu

yeah sorry I was mistaken she doesn't lose she wins I guess well she wins for a day because remember Senate murders

takes place in the backdrop of the finance she still loses I was right actually she does still lose

her people get killed and then she loses yeah so she delays she delays this bill yeah she delays the vote yeah

the other thing I'll call out here too It's not just service workers. I think what's interesting here is, like, if you view Tecla as, like, an aide, who's maybe on her personal staff, legislative aides in D.C. Notoriously make shit money, which is why these roles end up either going to trust fund types, or you just, like, live in poverty conditions in the D.C. area. Do you think Padmaid was like, I don't want to give, I want, we're going to, I want a diverse hire.

And so I'm going to hire someone from, you know, a. impoverished background and then I did not think about what that pay needed to actually look like she's like I pay I pay her the same that everybody else pays as if that's enough yep I don't think I think she just signs the the invoice I don't think she I don't think Padmay is like setting the the salary for her employees maybe she just inherited whatever the fucking but she's a senator but this is also one of the arguments about But, like, how does the government completely haul it out and captured? It's because of things like the people in charge don't have staff that are large enough or while taking care of enough.

So the entire thing invites corruption, and it's all shorthanded. And so, like, Padme's personal assistant is, or maybe just a servant, like, appointed servant, I don't know. but it's one of these cases where this person is yeah leaves these glittering corridors of power but to a degree that's also old infrastructure in some ways like it's it's all built you know it's all hollow though uh and then they go down to current economic conditions which is yeah that this is a state that is uh undergoing slow collapse what's very funny is padmay's speech the thing that would have actually been the most like 2010 at this point or maybe more like mid-war on terror would have been we will we will buy the clones and we will make investments in infrastructure and we will deregulate the banks we'll do all of it at once and that's that's how that would have gone but instead like this buys into this notion of its guns or butter and not that like mostly guns

a little bit of butter so you shut up which was kind of the mode of that time that's the other thing about this that I wish this episode hit how are people not in the streets what is the process by which people like Tecla

and the people who have it worse than Tecla presumably are not up in arms about this what is how is is their consent being manufactured? How are they being bought? What's leading to be bought in to this energy rationing, food rationing, all that other stuff, right? Because something has to be happening there on top of the basic propaganda necessary to bring them on board for a war in which, I mean, I guess they're not, for the most part, especially in Khorisant, they're not being invaded and they're not sending people off to die. But you think about a place like

Ryloth, right? Where like, Rylos, I mean, I mean, Maybe not Rylos, because Rialov is, in fact, being occupied right now, right? Or it was being occupied until very recently. But places that are, I keep going to Rodea for some reason, where we know that there's economic, you know, catastrophe happening there. We know that they are, they have, you know, been a place where fighting has happened. Presumably local people have been involved. I mean, Pad made gestures at this. I think this is probably the most canny thing she says in the speech is where she does the thing of saying, like, whether they come from the.

clone factories or from any of the thousands of systems loyal to the republic is like remember some people fight from your hometown too senators um which i don't know that it's actually true but it's good that she's smart that she said that um but yeah like i don't understand how there are not larger protests around war rationing around any of that stuff or if there are i'd love to see them i would love for the camera to get there at some point you know agreed which which these episodes rule because this is the most we've gotten towards the stuff since the jump. People have been saying

from the jump that we would love the episodes when they start getting into the banking plan and the separatist stuff and I, despite thinking that this is, the Padme is like completely talking out of the side of our mouth here. I love this episode because it's

focusing on the stuff that we care about so much. You know? Agreed. And I mean, this is such a recognizable type of liberalism from Padmae, which is that my heart bleeds for those less fortunate. Yes, I am a plutocrat, but

I'm on their side. I think they should have running water. And it's terrible that we haven't passed the give these folks running water and, you know, and shelter. And she's identified, she is identifying something interesting that we should probably pause to say, which

is, in her read, in the way she frames this, what she is saying is, Traditionally, the Republic, or at least Corrissat, operates with a pretty firm social safety net where basic needs are being taken care of. Maybe not a pretty firm one, but around these very core things, around power and water, those are taken care of things. And that now that they're not taken care of, they're things that presumably are bought at higher rates. They're not guaranteed, which, by the way, bank deregulation ain't going to help that. That is part of the thing that is being targeted or that is being wounded by the war, which again goes back to the thing at the beginning of the episode where Bale says the Republic itself can't, won't be able to maintain itself if it owes 25% interest because it'll have to start cutting its services, right?

So I think this is the first time we've gotten the idea that the Republic has services for people, that things like water and energy are being provided for and are not being bought wholesale or being bought, you know, or, you know, on an individual or household basis. which is an interesting aspect to this, which also kind of is the fun thing about this, which is that, like, I hate the speech from Padme. Also, if it was Padme versus Rush Clovis on our local elections, I guess I vote Padmae. Do you know what I mean?

Which is, like, she cares about, she, her perspective is a little bit closer to mine than it is to Rush Clovis. And you'll just see every time you open, Holland at Twitter, and people are posting anime, like, not anime, they're posting a little Padme gifts of like, because she gets it done.

She always delivers. Padme, claps back. Yeah, I hate it. I'm so mad. Also, yeah, Ellie. I was just to say, I mean, to the point that she's making to you, because I don't think we've said it directly, is the way that she gets to that end of the speech is by being like, we're going to lose this war by losing public support.

Like, whatever Duku does to us isn't going to be worse than not being able to feed our people. Yeah. Yep True Which is true Yeah Which is true Well it's going to be lack of public support

That like A lot's going to happen In Revenge of the Sith That everyone just is like Yeah that seems fine Because like What is left about the existing system For people to believe in?

This is also the part of it She cannot see Because She doesn't see how bad it could get One problem with the downfall of public services is that is the direct one that people starve and suffer and their quality of life decreases. The second one is that

over a long period of time, a social safety net gets eradicated and people around, you know, get used to living at a lower quality of life. The third one, and the one that actually happens is that decline becomes a weapon for an autocrat to wield in order to claim more executive power so that he can make decisions in our case. Literally, she, you know, basically has already done this half step would be by becoming a high chancellor

and gaining more authority. And then we'll do it further when he becomes the emperor because people will buy into the notion that when something is this disordered and this chaotic, the only way to infix it is someone who can make immediate big decisions without getting caught in, senatorial red tape and back and forth and that you need to have someone who can just

cut right through it and do what needs to be done and he can position himself like that and the more disorderly and the more um you know malfunctioning the the republic is the better his case is for that uh because he can say i've always done my job you know i always i always pass the stuff that they vote for uh i do my best to get stuff across the way and if you give me more power i can I can get this done even quicker, you know? Yeah. And I feel like... She can't see that.

I feel like Palpatine can kind of see that on the board in the way that Padmay can't, because he kind of gestures towards it at the final seat of this episode. We see him talking to... I think it's the banking clan guys. No, it's a demon horn guy. Oh, it's a demon horn guy. Yeah, yeah.

And he's like, I can't believe I would have... Isn't it curious that someone could have all of this power, but the words of a single senator takes it all away? and then he basically says like let's let this play out and you know the Senate's going to do what it does

and yeah that's the thing he's content he's like this is a setback by a day doesn't change he thinks it's kind of funny that this works that like she's still an adroit enough politician and like the politics are still flexible enough in the republic that

like a good speech legitimately changed minds for a day but it's not going to hold and he's right because the next episode is the next you know beat here is Senate murders

and then the end of that is that bill passes and Padma is like but we did all this work which now like damn true you did work real hard and did not go anywhere huh the blessings never try oh no yeah rip once again to Uncle Ono

I think this is probably his final time that we're rest in pieces Uncle Ono I fucking hope so His his aid who kills him Is in this episode too Like just hovered around

I know I saw her I was like you She's right there That's the thing She knows he got his ass Whipped She knows he's out here This is fucked up now

Because That aid also isn't You know Leting her kids bathe every day Oh shit I would fucking kill Uncle Odo if it's like yellow to your

electricity back on, are you kidding me? You're right. You're right? Got to go. He's got to go. That colors that way different. If we had seen this first, that our whole, like we already were like, what's up with Uncle O'Don? But, yeah.

Damn. Well, it's looking pretty pretty grim for the prospects of peace now. But fortunately, Now that we have dealt with all this political nonsense, this drama, these analogies to the politics of the war on terror and neoliberalism, we can get all that aside and get to what Star Wars is really about, the Force Witches of Death Amir. Let's fucking go.

How excited are you? I accidentally watched the first 20 seconds of the next episode, and I was like, I want to watch it. Absolutely nothing, but I'm so excited. All I'll say is hemlines are rising, Jedi are falling. And the tithes are all stylishly ripped. Exciting. We get some big character introductions in this next arc. Like this is, we're about to start one of the biggest, longest-running arcs of this show,

which I've not seen all the way through, but this is, there's some wild shit that's about to pop off. This podcast is about to pop off. I mean, it is about to pop off because this is three-parter, and I think I mentioned this on. We're going to go to four-parters. Well, there's going to be some four-partners coming up at some point. Just sound a cautionary note. This was two episodes. They're dense episodes.

These are dense episodes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Two hours. I edit these still. I know. I knew this would be a long run. And also, we were all over the place.

We should do all three of these, though. We should try to get all three of these. Yeah. We can't break these up. maybe when we get the forest we'll have a talk we'll see what it's at what our lives are like yeah can't that arc is indivisible uh like my life for the force witches of dathamere right the forest witches of dathamere deserve our full time sure i'm not one time written by katie lucas is this whole arc written by katie lucas whole arc written by katie

let's go kate you crushed it also a thing that's going to happen okay yeah okay i'm ready that said if you do want to hear us talk more about neoliberalism you go to patreon.com slash civilized that's where we that's truly where we do our deepest ridiculous dives on bullshit we also did an episode on visions that's up there now the anime collection of shorts of Star Wars shorts so you should go listen to that I mean by the head and this comes out that will have been out for like a month we are considerably ahead

we got to slow down we have to slow down a little bit because our Q&A is just out of sync at this point. It is. But also I want to see what's up with these four switches. Yeah. Do that and then holiday break maybe, just so we're not like...

Oh, man. This is the December 15th episode, I think. No, so December 1st episodes. We're not crazy far ahead. We're pretty far ahead. Yeah. Compared to where the rest of my podcast is. It's true.

um either way uh yeah so you should definitely check out our uh visions show and our q and a is on patreon dot com slash civilized uh until then please rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice and remember uncleano never forget him r ip big guy he wasn't that big he's kind of little guy RIP short king But his But a moral giant Yes

Well Well Yeah No one seemed to believe that about him They all kind of thought Yeah Oh no We're eulogizing him the way they did

Oh no He deserved a better week He deserved a better week He did you know what There you go Oh no I deserve a better final week Over a month or something

Not one week Yeah Yeah When did the Zillob Beast Run rampant It was like It was like, it was like, far enough back that I couldn't name it. No, I did check.

It was a while ago. But again, no one brought that up. No one in this episode was like, we've been attacked like this since the Zillow Beast. Except for the Zillow Bees. We haven't been attacked for a thousand years, except for the Zillow Beast, which doesn't count because that was obviously an animal attack.

Right, much different. Definitely not a separatist ploy. Definitely not an animal we brought here on purpose. Much different than this current attack. All right. with end this episode. Bye. Bye.

Thank you. Thank you. I don't know.