A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 28: The Citadel Arc (Clone Wars 62 - 64)

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

Phew, we've finally made it to the big Season 3 finale arc. Nearly all of our main characters are here, facing down the very Citadel we first heard about in the season opener--and some snarky commentary from a future Star Wars villain. How will- Huh? What's that? You're saying this isn't the end of the season? There's two more episodes following this? Sure buddy. Sure. Whatever you say. But don't be surprised when we divert from the main topic of this episode multiple times to dig into end-of-season retrospective thoughts and hopes for the future anyway. We gotta hit those five star runtimes somehow. You can support the show and gain access to a monthly Q&A cast by going to patreon.com/civilized NEXT TIME: Episodes 65 - 66 ("Padawan Lost" and "Wookie Hunt") Show Notes Major Deaths: Charger, Longshot, Echo, Even Piell, Osi Sobeck, OOM-10 AND HIS BUDS ;_; o7      Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Alicia Acampora Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)    

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Clone Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zakney, joined by Ali Akampura, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. Prison break and heist movies generally fall into one of two categories. There's competence porn, where a brilliantly conceived master plan, the special talents of the people who drafted it overcome all. obstacles and complications thrown at them. The Clone Wars gave us a taste of this with hostage crisis, where Cadbane

and company just demolished Senate security and Anakin Skywalker, quite frankly, despite his best efforts to thwart them. Now it goes the other direction, or maybe the other title you put on this is the Jedi gang tries a stealth

mission, as the Citadel arc becomes one of compounding problems that keep raising the stakes and the body count as more major characters are pulled into the story. So, to give a quick overview of the three episodes we're going to discuss, first I should say, if you like completely out of left field tweaks to Star Wars World Building, you're going to love the premise for this.

A Jedi Master, even, Evan, even? Oh, I hate this. Evan. Evan. It's Evan. It has to be Evan. Peel. It's not even keel, but peel. It's Evan Peel. It's so funny, again, his name is just Evan. It's just Evan. It's just Evan. Evan Peel has been captured by the separatists and is held in a dangerous prison designed as a jail for Jedi.

He has key information for the war effort. He knows the location of secret hyperspace lanes that basically act like really fast highway tunnels that run from the center of separative space to the heart of the Republic. Didn't know hyperspace works like this, but now it does. This instantly made me think, is this how they invade Corrassan at the end of the beginning of Revenge of the Sith? They must use this, right? That was my thinking as well, because it seems like that will be one of the things that as the series enters its end game, this will be the, like, giant, like, black swan event that we're moving towards. Either way, for obvious reasons, whoever controls the keys to this hyperspace hyperloop

will hold a decisive edge in the war. So the Jedi dispatch a rescue mission, led by Anakin and Obi-1, but mostly by R2, to infiltrate the prison. Let's go. Asoka is told to stay off the mission, but she sneaks into it anyway against Anakin's wishes. And together, the team succeeds in rescuing Peel, who, as for some, reason decided to split the information between himself and his aide, Captain Tarkin, who you may recognize from the first Death Star and from Rogue One, where his reanimated corpse played a part as well. During the rescue of Tarkin, the mission goes sideways, and the

entire rescue force ends up splitting up and being hunted by the prison's vein and secure warden O.C. Sobeck. The second episode, Counterattack, sees this entire plan crumble into little pieces, which I think we'll discuss in more detail as part of our main conversation. The major plot development isn't really about the prison break. It's about the fact that Anakin is extremely turned on by Tarkin's pedestrian and largely misguided armchair strategizing about how the Jedi need to get tough on the separatists. The final episode, Citadel Rescue, has the Jedi sending a fresh force to go and pull Anakin and the rest of the team out of the fire. Along the way, Peel dies and passes his secrets to

Asoka. This ends up triggering a crisis when the group finally returns to Corrassant. It turns out the Tarkin has decided the information should only go to Chancellor Palpatine and Asoka thinks it should only go to the council. Indeed, that's what she promised Peel. And so that is kind of the the end of this, this fractured piece of information is still fractured at the end. They've rescued it. The Republic ostensibly controls all the key information, but the empire is there in the wings as Tarkin goes off to talk to Palpatine, and Yoda is reassuring everybody, he will smooth this over in private chambers with the chancellor.

We will see. I'm so mad this isn't a four-episode arc in the last episode. it wasn't Palpatine and Yota, like, working this out. Like, we got, like, a big house of card succession style. Like, Yoda being like, Padma, can you spy on these people again? And Palpatine being like, well, I can promise this. Uh-huh. That'd be sick.

I wonder if we're just supposed to take that he loses that debate. And that both sides, everybody gets access, both the chance, only the chancellor and then the Jedi Council or something. because we know they're going to, I guess we don't know. I suspect they're going to end up in separatist hands again for the Corrassan invasion eventually. Or does this become a fun football for the rest of the show? That'd be really fun to be like to have that as a background detail for the rest of the show that gets brought up now and that.

Like both the Jedi Council and Palpatine maintain their halves of the coordinates and don't share. I like that. Yeah. Because that's a thing that we haven't really. hit much of, but by the time you get to Revenge of the Sith, it's clear the Jedi Council is starting to suspect that maybe not how bad Palpatine is, but that they don't necessarily want him to have as much control as he does and that things are slipping out of their hands.

And so I think that you can start to play in that space here without betraying their attitudes in or without, you know, undercutting that movie in the way that, like, Anakin is kind of trapped. We can't have Anakin change in big ways yet. without mind wiping him immediately, as we've learned. So there's a really fun thing that didn't come up here, Rob. I mean, there's a lot, obviously, we'll get into. But it took me until I was doing my notes for this to realize it. This is the citadel that our characters from the beginning of the season trained against.

This is Echo. You know how Echo and Five is during this episode? This is the Citadel. Remember that they're a little test that they have to try to climb to the top. of the thing that's this yeah uh-huh which re I know that makes it so much more fucked up it makes it so fucked up but that's remember they have to climb it at the end and and like they use grappling hooks normally and they get to it here which is like jumping ahead a little bit and they're like I guess we can't use the fucking

grappling hook because they'll see us like that's because that's what they would normally do in their little training seminar at the top which also was the other thing that's probably worth saying this feels like a season finale to me in so many ways. Not because it's like, I don't think it's like a 10 out of 10 arc or anything, but everybody's here. All of our protagonists are here. All of the important clones to us, Vives and Echo, and Cody and Rex, or it's just Rex here? I know Rex is here. Cody might also be here. All three of our main Jedi, uh, Asoka, Obi-Wan, and Anakin. The, the Duke who shows up to berate a guy a number of times. Um, you know, obviously you don't get Asage here. You don't

get you don't get you know assage or savage which i just realized that they sort of rhyme that's a problem um but you get like all of our core heroes i guess except for padmay the whole jedi council the whole jedi council some new jedi folks who we've never seen before with sick horns yep plow coon we get a call back to plow coon and asoka being tight like it's it's this is the first time the show has felt laser focused on being like let's get all of our principal characters onto a single arc and that's and that's pretty interesting this that's a really good I think the my number one question walking away from this arc was how like I'm just trying to envision how the showrunners plan the moment like the momentum of a season yeah because going from

the mortis arc to this and then knowing that there's still still like six more episodes or something of this season. There's two more. Two. Oh, there's only two more in this season? Yeah. And I think that they're disconnected. I think that they're one-offs, right?

It's so bizarre to me. Like, I don't understand how. It's children's television. You know? I think that that's really it in terms of... Like, where's my prestige television season arc? I think the answer is going to be season seven or rebels, right? Right.

Which is like, a thing that's worth thinking about is like, this. season happens, like, Prestige television is still solidifying in the way that it is. What was it, season three of the Clone Wars is, what, 2011? 2000, is it 2011? That would make, that would make some sense. I remember seeing, yeah, one of these episodes was February 2011. So, like, we're, it's, prestige TV is happening, but it hasn't done that crossover from, like, I guess like, Walking Dead is out.

Maybe that's the crossover point for me, is it like, oh, every genre space has to, be prestige TV now. It's not just sad dads and mob bosses. And, you know, it's like everything gets to go in the, you got your like vampires kiss and that's prestige TV now. Like that we've lifted it. And maybe children's TV is just one of the last things that gets, that gets picked up there. I don't know. That's my hypothesis. We'd have to test it by looking at stuff. But. And true blood, let's be clear, true blood did a very good convincing impression of prestige TV until it was too late for people to get out when they realized it was not what they thought.

Well, don't worry, it's getting a second run, isn't it? It's getting a new series. Oh, my God. Like, rebooting True Blood? I think it's a reboot. I do think it's a reboot. It just ended. I know.

Welcome to Full Metal Alchemist territory, baby. Oh, my God. But, yeah, I'm looking forward to an episode of, like, a season of the Clone Wars needs to end with, like, don't think twice it's all right, playing in the background as we, like, cut between the characters. I like, I guarantee, I would bet money that we will get that style of sad end of season shot jumping between characters as a song plays. It'll just be a Star Wars song, but like, it would be sick if it was like a sad canteena song.

Do you know what I mean? Or if like, you know, Cy Snoodles was like singing something, like a 1950s pop song playing at the end of a Madman episode or whatever. Like, I don't imagine it was 1960s. Just give me, cut me some slack. Anyway. That would be so good. I guess it just, it, I, I feel like they must conceptually develop multiple seasons at a time. And they're sloting, like, it's like a per arc slot.

Versus a schedule versus like episode one to episode 22. Yeah. Um, that's just how I have to imagine it. I mean, it's, it's strange because I, I think it, it's quite disorienting in terms of what, what should I be leaving a season feeling? Like, what should I be anticipating, which, because the anticipation is always revenge of the Sith, but it's like such a global anticipation rather than a localized, like, in this moment, where is, where are these individual character arcs in this moment, rather than this, like, end game that we're always just like waiting moving towards. We were going to leave this

season with a bunch of open threads about Assoca's future, about Zavage, about probably some other shit we've forgotten because it's been so long since we've watched it this season. I guess Echo and Farr, or I guess you know, the remaining the clones

writ large and the future of the clones. Yeah. But they're all such giant questions. There's no like, you know, like not my, like, there's no local crisis that we're like coming up against that you would expect in sort of like a season finale or season ender.

There's no to be continued style. Yeah, exactly. Which is like, cliffhangers is, I'm not a huge fan of them. I think they're fine sometimes, but. 90% of the time they do kind of fizzle when you get to the second part and it's like the intensity doesn't start. You can have like an emotional. cliffhanger or not a cliffhanger you can have hey a big action happened and now you're

I'm thinking about the end of like a breaking bad season or something here where like oh shit bad thing happens in previous episode final episode is day new ma and then the end of that season is everyone like taking on their emotional states that they're going to begin the next season on and you leave going like oh fuck this marriage isn't a bad place or this relationship has knitted itself back together or whatever so we're just so I feel like every time we Our questions as viewers are so far away. They're like so, they're such big questions that it's hard to feel like I have any idea what to anticipate. It's worth saying that these shows don't have the prestige TV huge gap in release or in release where a season of a prestige TV show will go off and you have to wait a year for the next season to come often.

Lots of ponder. This is a summer break. They go off the air in April. They come back in September, right? The school year ends. It's done. School year starts. The new season starts.

And so you only have four months to like kind of sit with stuff. And so I think that speaks probably to your hypothesis that like the production is arc based and is not necessarily. Like I would bet money. A way to look at this is production order, right? Like what order were these episodes produced in? We know that it's a fucking mess. We know that the production order numbers are all over the place.

and it makes me think, hey, at the end of a season, they just kind of go like, well, we can wrap this up and slot this in at the end of season three. Exactly. There's one of those whookies in it. But like in the, I was thinking about this today because I saw that the subtitle for season three is secrets revealed.

Uh-huh. And I was like, so there's something in the writing room where they're like, you're at least supposed to view this season of episodes, even if they're not completely related as like a whole in some way. But I keep being like, what secrets were revealed? Like, I guess we started with the stuff on Mandelor, and then there was Mortis, and we got some clone backstory, but like... Well, secrets were revealed.

They were just weak-ass secrets. Sure. The big secrets will come later. And I think, so, also, I do think there is, I think sometimes there is a payoff issue with this, with the show. And I think that's actually here in the first episode. So, like, right at the start, one of the things is I was really solid. liked for, especially when Anakin kind of, like, hints

that this being one of the reasons he doesn't want to soak it to come on the mission, is they lay out this thing was, we got to rescue our little our little house elf Jedi friend. And he is, right?

Like, not a good little house elf ears. He's such a good Jedi design that he's one of the few people that I immediately Googled if there was any pictures of him as a Panawan because I'm like I got to see him with that braid but it wasn't out there I really I'd love to see that

but like so the deal is the Citadel is like this ancient like it's the fucking Alcatraz of Star Wars right but more importantly it's the Alcatraz for like if the Jedi really need to make sure someone can't escape especially maybe if that person is a Jedi here we've got the Citadel and

And Anakin tells Asoka, like, listen, I don't want you on this mission, this isn't, it's going to be a bad one. And, like, this is a uniquely bad place to go. And I almost, like, picked up this vibe of, like, there's maybe things we don't, like, want the, the, the, the Padawans to know about the Citadel that you might just see there. Like, if the Jedi go to their own Chateau d'Eve, and you see, like, who have they imprisoned there before? And this is kind of what I was like, I was like, shit. Now, are we going to have our, like, blood graffiti on the wall or, like, something scratched into the walls from, like, don't believe the Jedi's lies? I was so stoked for this.

And instead of they kind of do nothing with the whole concept of, like, the Citadel is this, like, really special prison, it's just a prison. And I think, like, that, like, the setup for this is so much more interesting than, like, the mission they end up designing. I have to wonder. Go ahead, Natalie. I have to wonder, it, I mean, I mean, in the conversation Anakin has with Asoka he like you said Rob he explains that the

citadel was created to hold Jedi if any of us lost our way and I have to wonder if it if it's being run by Jedi that place is mad different but because it's being run by separatists they're like only unlocking like 10% of the of the holding power because like nothing about the Citadel, I mean, there's not nothing, but not much about the Citadel feels specific to how to imprison a Jedi. It just seems like a hyper-militarized, hyper-security prison. There's some of the like force, like the energy field stuff and having like that, but I feel like that's widely applicable. Like that doesn't feel a hyper-sizant-climbing walls. Not just Jedi or like, yeah, the magnet.

The magnets hit the lightsabers and the guns. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I don't know how those droids didn't get magnetized. Those are metal droids. I think it was a limited, I think it was a limited single space spot. I don't know. The thing that happened here is they fell in love with Tarkin.

All of the interior design of this place is the Death Star. All the exterior design of this place is meant to look like the Death Star trench, like the actual way that the Tower of the Citadel looks. is designed after the way the Death Star looks, like the Death Star surface and the Death Star trenches. All of the way that Artu like slices into a little side thing in a little alcove to find where people are is from when he's on the Death Star.

The whole thing is Tarkin being like, now this place is what a, this is what a fucking base should look like. And they fell in love with that concept. And he says that while they're walking along a lava river next to a cave. And it's like, what are you talking about? It's very stupid But that's

Look what they took for you, Anakin Reject modernity This is This is the fucking That's the thing that happens here Right? It's like they get a little too referential They get really in this idea of Tarkin

As the axis on which this whole arc spins Which like mostly works I think that has a good final beat With the Asoka stuff which we'll get to yeah um but like I think you're right we were robbed of a sick you know dark Jedi prison a prison for like we don't see anybody except for

except for Peel locked up who's a Jedi I wanted at least to see I really wanted this scene where Anakin Owey want to decide if they let out some dark Jedi who'd been stuck in there for 30 years oh my god yes I'll help you with this Jedi are you know what I mean yeah right yeah Jedi yeah Jedi Arkham Asylum oh no it's the Riddler Jedi's Jedi He's leaving us clues and puzzles. God, that would have been so cool. Fug.

Why don't they do that for us? I think this guy might be a little fucked up. A little twist. There'd be so many freaks in here. You know it. He's got your little freaks. But, like, guys who are just, like, deviant, but not, like, they don't go full Dark Jedi.

They're just too weird for the Jedi to, like, handle. Fuck, we just can't. We get Hannibal Jedi. We get fucking. we get we get like a guy locked in the Magneto prison from the end of the first X-Men movie the all-glass and he's sitting there with a chest table Jedi we get all the fucked-up Jedi that there could be Jedi pacing back and forth and then like rushes up to the to the to the this guy seems okay and he's like ah and he runs up to the glass wall and we get all the

fucked up freak Jedi we didn't get any of them such a shame such a shame tell me Mr. Skywalker you ever considered what you might be chosen for. Anakin, don't listen to this guy. This is why he's here. He's too dangerous. His tautologies. It will break your mind.

I do think Anakin should probably draw a clock, though. Let's see where his head is at. See if he's making sense of the world the way he should be. So, I mean, to that point, getting too self-referential, like, also they decide, like, how are we going to break into this prison? How are we going to smuggle this rescue team past their censors? Um, carbonite freezing. Right down to the fact that apparently the little uggnots are just the carbonite freezing dudes.

Rob, I may have a phalloni zone for you. Really? Actually, wait, do I have, yeah, I do. I do have a phalloni zone for you on this one. I didn't know if this is the one that I grabbed or not. We should, let's set this up a little bit before we jump to the phallone zone, I guess. But like, it's what you just said, right? Asoka is told, no, you're not allowed to come to this.

Everyone goes, how do we break into the Citadel? And then Anakin says, I got a plan. And then they carbon freeze themselves. They do the carbonite freezing. What are you going to say, Natalie? I'll link this. I was just going to say the moment between Asoka and Plokun where Asoka's like giving her her sort of justification for why she should be able to go. She says to Plow Coon, it's not for him to decide when and how I should put my life in danger.

Yeah. And I feel like it kind of is at the point. Like, I don't know. He is your mentor and he is the one who gives you a sign. Like, he is an authority figure who gives assignments, as are the other Jedi master. Like if somebody, if another Jedi master was like, oh, no, no, no, she should go. I don't know. It's just classic, that's what Anakin would say.

Anakin would also say, right? It is like, it's kind of like a, I think it bleeds. two things together. One is he, this is his role. Two is he is overprotective and often leans into this

ability to dictate when and where Asoka gets to, you know, join a mission. But the thing he says is like this isn't a mission for learning. You either do or die. Like this is the capital the capital M mission

that is like a, I don't, it, it just, it, it, it begs the question of where Asoka is at in her training. Is she, how much of it is apprenticeship and how much of it is at this point and how much of it is really formulated, like really establishing herself as a soon to be Jedi night. Well, and on the heels of the Mortis Arc where like she comes away with this message of, like, you've got to get out from under this guy's thumb. Their entire relationship in this series, but especially at this moment, already feels profoundly different.

That she doesn't even, in the past, it always feels like she sort of grants the premise that he does have the best interests at heart. And, like, she might be frustrated by these limitations, but, like, she will put up with them. Here, it is, like, she is done listening to him in this way. And, like, doesn't think twice before we're just going to master plow. So, like, this is also going to be paying off on that notion of, like, she doesn't trust his judgment. She doesn't trust his reasoning.

And increasingly is feeling like the thing that she needs to do to grow is act on her own recognizance. All right. Filoni's own time. Ready to get counted in on this one? Yeah. All right. I'm ready. Three, two, one, go.

Seeing the carbonite freezing stuff happened. In season one of the Clone Wars, Henry Giora and I had bandied about a couple different ideas and things we thought would be neat. And that was back during, you know, the Uber fan days, we call it, you know, when we were quoting the movies left and right and having rancors run all around. At least they know. At least they know. Among the ideas as fans that we thought would be cool is, oh, we have to have carbon freezing in the show.

That would be cool. So crazy. Sounds so defensive. We had a series of story meeting and we were working with George and coming up with how are these guys going to get through the Citadel. Oh, my God. I remember that Henry and I talked about this thing a long time ago. And I was like, well, what if they froze themselves and used carbon freezing to get through? I don't think this is working.

I love them. Droid. They're the best. We'll get to them. Non-organics. could get past these scanners. But any living thing, the scanner would attack. Of course.

Unless you were able to freeze yourself in your heart rate and your bio signs down, so the droids wouldn't realize they were living things on board the ship. The shuttle has no life forms, commander. Matt Mikovitz, who was writing the Citadel, you know, huge fan, was like, yes, that would be awesome. So, and George went for it. I mean, again, like, you have to have a real,

reason to want to do these things too. Oh, sure kids. And it was a good reason. Yeah, exactly. It fit really well with the Citadel, so we put the idea of carbon freezing in it. All right, here we go. Now we get to another dilemma, which is, so a lot of fans somehow, for some reason, hold the concept that went on this frozen in carbonite, that this was somehow the first time this was done.

So I'm not sure, I'm not sure where that comes from, because Bay, here somehow know the facility is a crew on Cloud City, but it should be, you know, able to freeze Skywalker. He set the chamber of a Skywalker. Somehow he knows this process is going to work. Oh. Almost like he's done it before. So that was enough really loose logic to run on that it would probably be the Anakin's idea.

The little giggle as you realize how whack the sounds. Your idea? Carbon freezing? Hey, you wanted to shield us from the life form scanners. A funny thing that you can't have evidently a carbon freezing chamber without having an ugnaut running. So I'm imagining somehow that the ugnots must be very good at carbon freezing. Whose rule, Dave?

They know a lot about it. Because we've got an ugnot, Erkzalus, running the machine. You know, and I don't, you know, I guess maybe when you open the big box to install your own carbon freezing chamber the ugnauts there maybe he delivers it um maybe he's in the box i don't know but uh you know it was a neat little nod back to my bar strikes back to have an ognot there um best i'd be so pissed if i opened my carbonite freezing chamber and the um not what's it there hey where the fuck's the ugnot this you got to call customer service yes i already open box but i assumed the umnod hadn't last

this is just the future of those services where you buy something and someone comes and puts it together for you you're right he's just going to stick around baby yeah white glove roommate service so yeah that was for that was for this episode that was for this episode that was for this episode that's the citadel yeah um yeah it's weird that it's like nuts here it's it's it's it's the same line of thinking, I am glad that they do refer to the first season as like their Uber nerd mode when they were still like constantly quoting the movie, the movies rather, because they have gotten away from it, but this arc is filled with it and it drives me crazy. So, yeah. Like, I feel like they're saying that to be like, but not now, guys. Like, now we're making these choices for good reasons. Like, look at how we're linking it all the way to, uh, I don't even know Which one, that one's from Return of the Jedi?

That's Empire Strikes Back. Empire Strikes Back. Yeah. Well, maybe, though, I mean, I think it does indicate that maybe, like, the Uggnots have a really strong guild or union. Oh, sure. And, like, the Empire doesn't have to fuck with them because, like, the carbonite freezing chambers will stop working. And so, like, they're just fine throughout all of this because, like, they got their lane, you know? I will say.

I think he is right that there is that fan belief that that's the first time it happens, is with Han Solo. And he acts like it's not clear where that idea comes from. But like, Boba Fett is like, this could kill him. Why are you doing this? This seems risky during that sequence. And I think that's a fair reason for people to be like, this isn't a thing that gets done. This isn't, this isn't safe. No, everyone's like, this is fucked up.

Like, the whole vibe on that is like, nobody's like, ah, yes. and the old carbonite freezing trip. Everyone's like, oh, shit, this is the worst thing it could happen. But how did he do it before this? Why would he come up with this idea now? I don't know. How do they have all that shit ready to go? I don't know.

I do really love Anakin being in charge of this plan, which is like super important, big deal. Nobody's done this before, a hyper prison. And his plan is basically, we're going to do this dangerous process to freeze ourselves. We might not be physically able to do this. mission afterwards. And then this plan with R2 is like, yeah, my guy Hank, my childhood friend is going to run the other side of this mission. Yeah. The droid that we know the Jedi don't fuck with, frankly, that everyone else in the world thinks like, why don't you wipe his memory

sometimes? He's got it. And we got to get him crewed up. He's got to roll deep. When they walk out with the R2 blue paint job. So for people, we didn't. Explain this, but R2 gets three reprogrammed battle droids. And I'm going to be honest, I don't think they're reprogrammed. I think that they just respect a good leader. They respect someone who respects them, you know? So I think it really comes down to leadership and mutual respect. I love it for R2.

I loved it. Every time they're like, yes, commander, I was like. I need this spin-off. I need these books. I love it. Yes. I need this video game. And look how much better they are at being battle droids.

Like, are they still a little bit skittish and nervous? Yes. 100%. But they keep it calm under pressure. They lie to the other droids multiple times successfully. They fight viciously. That's right. They lay it all on the line.

I'm just saying maybe the Republic could do with some investment in the R2D2. Yes. Does this mission just work if they just send R2? and a few battle droids and nobody else and R2 just like hacks together fake orders

and passes and just like takes over that facility I mean the fucked up thing is the answer is yes because they're writing it and all they have to do is decide to do

one one off R2 episode where R2 breaks some people out of prison using the same technique and it would work because there are heroes so yes they should just do that and also it would have been so funny when this villain

like realizes that it's just R2 and there's no Jedi involved where are the Jedi at you know sorry he has to do his fucked up fake Christopher Walken voice he has to do the like I feel like it's Alex Navarro doing Gilbert Godfrey is how it is the note that I have is

this is if Walken played a ghoul from Fallout and it is it we'll get there I have a second Philoni Zone for a little while later. It is 100% this voice actor's Christopher Walken that he's been asked to tweak with a little bit. We will get there. I won't spoil more.

I will say it's Obi-Wan's voice actor, though. That is who it is. Oh, wow. Who's also doing this villain. And then it's Asoka doing the tactical droid. That's fun. Yeah. Yeah.

So, anyway. So Asoka sneaks her way in by... freezing herself after Anakin got frozen and she pops out on the other side with the whole squad and Anakin's furious and Asoka tells a little lie and says that Plokun ordered her to come. Whoops. And I love that Obi-Wan just think this is hilarious. The problem was the problem of living outside the law is that you no longer have to

protection of it. That's Anakin. We're like, Anakin's trying to, like, lay down the law to Asoka, and every other Jedi is like, nope, we're not backing you up on this. Like, you should be very proud of your daughter. Because she's exactly like you. It's great.

The little double take when he sees her stepping out of the carbonite next to him, and he hears her voice is terrific. And then, yeah, they've got to, I didn't even put together that this is the same thing from their little, their little droid training. And it is, it is where things begin

to, like, it's a tough mission to be a clone, is what I'd say. I didn't realize there were so many clones on it until they started to die. I thought it was truly just Echo 5's Rex and Cody. And again, I don't even know if Cody's definitely there. I know what Rex is. And then, like, who are the ones who die? I wrote their names down. We got a charger and Hot Shot, both die. Do they both die to this wall climb? Is that where they both die? At least one person dies,

yeah, falls and activates the alarm system. Yes. Yes. I thought we were going to get some classic Asoka cutting a hole into the wall thing here, but she just opens up a vent, regular style with her hands.

Much more boring. Missed opportunity. Missed opportunity for sure. And then, yeah, the battle rages. Like, they fight their way in. there's some fun stuff with electrified walls and stuff Okay something about this battle though

Because we're seeing I feel like this is another development In battle droid technology First we had the first battle droids Humanoid You know not a lot of metal being used Whatever Then we get the upgraded guys

Who are like stronger Reinforced arms What these droids appear to be doing Is once they get into melee rage Just start strangling and stabbing people Oh yeah There are the psycho droids. Yeah, I was like, this is terrifying and very effective.

Like, who developed this software upgrade? Savage. It was one of his intern of firemen. Oh, he's just, like, trained. That would be sick. It was like they've all been loaded with the Savage training, like, program. It feels like when you talked about Arkham Asylum earlier, Rob, you mentioned it. On, like, low difficulties in games like that, everyone just, like, stands around.

and waits for Batman to fight one person at a time and then you bust up the difficulty a little bit and suddenly like six dudes are on you at once they are on that second mode they're like we're not going to take turns fighting the Jedi we're going to wall jump in we're going to shoot so they can't attack us back so they have to block our shit we're going to charge in and then we're just going to try to choke them all to death like no big deal um if they had knives they would have won this fight that's the thing I want to say because they get a lot of hits in on people they they straight up punch people multiple times and if they just had like a little knife on their on their like knuckles, that'd be it, it'd be done. You just have blood all over the walls.

That's my upgrade suggestion to OC-Sovic. I'm surprised they didn't have knives, because there was like the punch scene where the punching was happening off camera. I was like, this guy's getting stabbed to death. That's what I'm saying. I think what it looks like, right? I had just watched the terror recently, and there's a scene in that where someone just gets stabbed like 30 times very quickly, and it's the same scene. Same scene except no knife. P.S. The terror fucking ruled. Everyone should watch the terror. Great show.

We can't derail this, but my God. Anyway. So, yeah, I love that, like, these, these, it also feels like, man, the droids are going to get nasty here and the clones can keep up. Because they're like, you know what? We aren't even going to be bound by the floor anymore. We can just crawl up the walls. Like, we're all grievous now. Yeah.

And this is, this is the Tarkin thing, right? That's kind of probably why they go so ham here. that there's like a doubling of the core notion that is like Tarkin's claim is you got to you got to fight dirtier. You got to be willing to get in the in the fucking mud in a way that the Jedi aren't willing

to. And so you get that same thing that you get with the dark, with the like, when Assange fights, she uses the environment and fights dirty against Luminara. That same sort of like you know, juxtaposition between just brutal droid fighting versus

the much more like principle Jedi stuff here that seems like what they're doing a little bit but I don't know that I totally buy that dichotomy I really just don't you don't think that like the way that these guys are like literally torturing people and throwing fucking low blows and shit isn't meant to indicate that like this is the Tarkin school of fighting I think it's more that I don't know that I believe that it's not reciprocated by the Jedi like hmm like before we get to the Zillow beast we have the Jedi deploying a tactical nuke, like luring an entire

droid arm. And so that's this whole notion of like, you know, we need to, we need to take the gloves off and really get after these guys is like Well, the thing is this whole this whole arc is punctuated with a moment that is meant to be here is a Jedi taking the gloves off

and doing a thing that the only other Jedi who's ever done it is Anakin that we've seen on screen. Right. And we also see like Anakin blow up a gas vein in this arc and like do these other kind of big maneuvers he is the source for us i think it's like we see them do that the shit structurally we know that they're willing to like for instance clone and enslave an entire army like i'm not saying that their hands are clean but we do often see them as not there is a difference in the

way these these uh droids fight from the way our clones and our july yeah they're antagonistic they're not like it's it's i think we've said in the past that one of the dominating tactics of the Jedi is being reactionary. Is like, is, is not anticipate, is not like, anticipating from a zoom out standpoint and only like being able to react in the moment with fights. And Anakin even says at a certain point, like improvise is our, is where we shine as Jedi or something like that.

Like when things go wrong, that's how we shine. And Tarkin's like, no, no, no, no. Like, what you need to be doing is, like, epic evil plans. Yeah. You got to put down the biggest damage card you can on the table. You just got to go a big might fight, you know? Yeah, the Jedi are like a mill deck in Magic the Gathering. And Tarkin is out here using like whatever.

Yeah, just huge monsters. Just giant, just like. 10, 10 fucking monsters. One thing that I'm reading in the Wikipedia that I do not remember from this episode is it says here that Peel was forced to surrender his part of the code. Did he actually surrender his part of the code?

I thought he never gave it away. I don't think he did either. I think that that's bad Wikipedia. It says while the officers are being kept in a cell further inside the Citadel, P.L. was forced to surrender his part of the code therefore necessitating the liberation of the fleet captain to keep the nexus route safe that's just not true the reason that's not true they need it's because he had half

it's because he has half yeah damn i'm about to send a letter to lukypedia this question about the the tarkin like you have to be more violent and the jedi are peacekeepers and they shouldn't be at war like i kept like rewinding the like disagreements that he was having with Obi-Wan because, like, a big tension in this that is, like, Obi-1 will keep having a suggestion for a plan, and then Tarkin will be like, no, you should go do this thing. But it's not like Tarkin's suggestions were, like, more violent or, like, more efficient or, like, any of, like, there's, there's all this conversation about this tension, but, like, the tension isn't there when it's supposed to be. The whole tension, so that's the, the rest of this episode is they get Tarkin.

they free a bunch of other clones and and, you know, clone, I guess they're all clones, but some of them are like not the clone troopers. They're like the clone officer types. And then at the end of this is where Tarkin is like, we shouldn't split up. The plan that Obi-Wan has is, you know, some of us will go, some people will go with me, some people will go with Anakin. That will ensure that if we get, one side gets caught, they won't get both of you and Tarkin, or they won't get both you and peel and get the whole code.

And Tarkin is like, no, we should all stay together because we're all super powerful. I think there's tension there only because it's so rare that a non-Jedai speaks back to a Jedi giving a plan. But he doesn't win. So it kind of diffuses it. He never liked. No, no. His, like, plans never get taken up. The only small wins he has is when Anakin's like, you know what?

You're making a good point later. Even that is like, the same way he's like, man, I love big facilities, huh? He's like, no, we should keep all our eggs in the same basket, bigger basket. It's bad. It's so bad. But in this case, I do think you might have a point because it sure does not feel like them being split up actually helps them here. It feels like both groups get utterly rocked repeatedly.

It's true, but I guess if I, that is true. But if I were, I think I would probably have the same instinct as Obi-Wan as like a, more passive general, I would say, like, logically, if we have two halves of information, we should keep them as halves instead of making whole. I feel like it's a very Obi-Wan choice and a very Jedi choice to make. Because I think the Jedi, they're not often, like, it would be surprising for me to see them say, like oh no no because we are all like super strong together like we're they're so individualistic in their approach in general like the Jedi very rarely do you have like mad Jedi in one place

like they're they're always on their own they're always like very isolated and it's like one one versus many rather than I think they truly believe in their power as individual as rather than, like, the power together. Ficked up. I think they should have just killed Tarkin. He was giving evil vibes. Like, you know, the thing is, that's what Tarkin would do. Tarkin should be cool with that.

Yeah, like, you know what? It's just too big, sorry, it's just too big risk to keep both halves of the code. Like, better that no one have the code than it falls in the other hand. So, force choke. Hey, quick thing. just have they been wearing the Storm Trooper helmets this entire season?

I feel like this was the episode where it really hit me that like their helmet design has changed. I think that they've changed, but I don't know that they're all the way there yet. I feel like it changes again at least once in the next few seasons. But they used to have that sort of Spartan helmet, like Mandalorian thing. Now they have the

kind of like breather style like tubing around the bottom. You're totally right. Yeah. But not all of them do. Like some of them on this mission have the breather some have the um like more conventional clone helmet yeah it's weird uh but it just it just sort of hit me that like in this episode i was like wow these dudes suddenly abruptly just look like stormtroopers yeah yeah this phase two armor looks like it comes in hmm i don't know where it comes in i don't know yeah i'm trying to find

it but you might be right it might be this season it was in it was in uh it was in clone cadets arc Troopers, the Citadel, so it was in this season. Okay. I guess Cloned Cadets is actually, yeah, that's the opener from this season, so that's it, for sure. Interesting.

Anyway. So, yeah, go for it. I was just going to say, I love the warden O.C. Just in his war room, pressing buttons. Eye twitching.

Just Angi. and pushing funny buttons to, like, mess with the Jedi. It's so funny to me. God, his whole thing with the, this is the episode with the magnet ceiling, right? Yes, yes. When he's like, ah, ah, yeah.

And Anakin starts reaching for the saber. And it's, like, sick that Anakin pushes through the lightning pain to do it anyway, because that's Anakin to me. It's like, okay, whatever. Like, I'm Anakin. You can't make me, like, hurt so bad I don't do the violent thing. but but but uh but he's so fun he's uh i really like him as a as an arc villain yes mm-hmm agreed well and he like rides the line between being incompetent and competent

like he gets his wins he sees through their plans but he also is fun to like it's good that he isn't like perfect because we get ducu showing up and being like bro well that's really his weakness he's just terrified of his boss yeah yeah true uh true uh I feel like the next episode, like a lot of stuff happens, but the next episode is just an action-adventure movie in a lot of ways with some grisly moments. So, like, when they decided to split up, group Obi-1, Team Obi-1, ends up going through these air shafts. And they get spotted by a probe droid, and Evan can't kill it before it sends out a signal. and it's a really great moment where Obi-1 is looking at him and he just asked Evan like, did you stop it?

And in answer, these massive security doors begin slamming shut and move, you'll be cut in half. And you just know that someone is going to get cut in half. And they do it in a really brutal fashion, which is they position the camera outside one of the lateral doors pointing into the hall so you can see one of the clones like begging for help because it can't escape and then our view

was cut off at the same moment you hear him screaming um yeah fucking brutal but like brutal clone death yeah also he does get the fucking probe droid it just must have already sent it stuff back yeah he moves so quick like it that probe droid probably immediately upon seeing them sent out the signal

yeah yeah but he does like some Yoda flips he does It was sick. It was sick. It made Obi-Wan look kind of like a punk because, like, Obi-Wan was higher up than him and should have been able to handle this, and he just didn't. And so Evan had to jump up here, do some backflips. They definitely set up Evan going into this vent as like, oh, this is going to be a disadvantage for him in some way.

Like, there's, like, this hesitation. And, like, I remember there's, like, a shot where you, like, kind of, it's, like, almost as if it's his perspective. it's like this huge vent and he's like a little guy and like how is he going to climb this huge vent and then yeah he's just um super epic as a Jedi and does like 400 million flips and kills the probe droid as it's like ascending it's awesome I'm so glad he didn't die in there I was so scared he was about to die in there that would be bad um and then yeah like you said Rob, this is just basically an action-adventure episode, right?

This is, this is a lot of, I guess the thing that we get in this episode a lot is the Asoka, Anakin tension, as Anakin gets increasingly upset that she's here and that, like, you know, even when she does something right, it's, again, it's what came up last arc. You know, he does not praise her when she does something right. He only ever scolds her when she fucks up. Right. This is the bit where it becomes clear that she was not actually ordered to go on this plan or on this trip because this trip on this mission

because she doesn't know a key part of the plan which is like there's a wall you get to that you're supposed to blow up and she's like I think she just thinks it's a dead end and so he does the whole like if you were actually ordered to come on this mission master play would have told you what to do here yeah but that doesn't fucking make sense because where he's telling her this is like if you knew you should have known about the part where they chase us into the box canyon

and we blow the walls down Like, uh-huh. That was plan B. This was a plan? Uh-huh. Are we even at plan B yet? I thought plan B comes later. Oh, is this after plan B?

I mean, before plan B? This is somehow, somehow this is plan A. I mean, they didn't know about Tarkin yet. The arc sets up the fact that until this point, the mission would have failed without Asoka here. right like she's the one that like is small enough to get through the vent in the very beginning like

she's agile enough to scout ahead the fact that she's there allows Anna can take to take the flank like the arc itself is positioning is propping up Asoka to be like this integral member of the group

but like at the point at which she doesn't know the plan of not like it doesn't take her that long to just like set the bomb like they're they're okay it takes 12 seconds yeah it's fine feel like it's not it's not earned tension yeah no i don't think so at all um meanwhile like obi ones like they try to hijack the moped uh like squadron and that turns out like how can you not until that's a trap to basically put a dozen mopeds under a big box with a stick and they're like let's take these mopeds to our escape ship

And immediately they get, like, arrested. And Brabathor O.C. Sobeck, who begins, like, executing clones to, you know, is part of the interrogation of Evan. And the meantime, like, you know, R2 and his, not dirty dozen, but, like, dirty trio, are also beginning. beginning to, because R2 sees this is all getting fucked up, and R2's like we're going in. And just completely bluffs his way past probably a pretty demotivated

tactical droid. You love to see it. You love to see a crit roll on a difficult challenge. It's great. And picks up, picks them up, right? He just like, he has his dudes go like go up, yeah, we're supposed to take these prisoners away off from you. Don't worry about it. And the other

battle droids are like, are you sure. and yeah, we're 100% sure, we'll handle it. They're like, okay. It's so good. I love it. I love every time they're like, well, Commander R2 says, or like, it just, I love that they're like enabling R2 to just like alpha the whole plan. It just rules to me.

There should be figures of these guys. There should be. I love them. Of R2 and then the three of them. with their unique paint jobs. Well, you just got to get normal ones and repaint them and, like, go through the process of reprogramming them. Oh, I see.

For yourself. It's immersive. So, as they are, meanwhile, so as Team Anakin is sort of navigating this facility and are going through a big sulfur pipe tube, I don't know, it's bad. Smelly. It's sulfur, for sure, yeah.

And meanwhile, like, everyone is using ladders, but I guess it's to indicate that Asoka is reconning, even though she's with the group. She's basically doing, like, tumbling routines off in the background of the scene. Like, they're climbing the ladder, and she's using, it's like one of those cage ladders you see around, like, cell phone towers or, like, high-capacity lines.

And she's using the exterior cage to sort of hop around. And, but on that walk. I kind of love it. I feel like it positions Asoka, It, like, showcases her as, like, an incredibly agile Jedi. Like, she, like, this is, like, going to be one of her strengths. Like, she has the ability to just move in a way that other, like, Anakin doesn't move like that. Almost as if the Jedi are, like, samurai.

But Asoka secretly is a ninja. I see. It is perhaps, it might be the time of the ninja very soon in Star Wars. But on their walk, Tarkin and Anakin get in a little debate about, he's, like, Anakin gets frustrated that Tarkin is being basically so catty. Their take on Tarkin seems to be that like, well, Peter, Cushing was kind of a posh arch dude in

the original movie. And so how do you imagine him as a young man? And the answer kind of seems to be like a brat? Like just the worst kid to show up at office hours? Yeah. Like at the end, something that we didn't mention is at the end of the last

episode, there's a a conflict between Tarkin and Anakin where Tarkin essentially says, like, I don't trust Jedi. I mean, it's the whole basis of the, like, we need, I don't trust Jedi because they're peacekeepers leading a war. No, this is that conversation. It's not, so it happens here. But at the end of the last, but at the end of the last episode,

Anakin presses Tarkin and is like, you should understand gratitude when Tarkin, before that says, like, the thing that I understand, understand is like good plans or something. I don't remember exactly, but like, then Anakin, like, claps back at him as like, you should understand gratitude, like, save your ass. But yes, here is like where it comes to a head.

And then Anakin and Tarkin become besties. Because they agree on imprisonment. The thing that he says at the end of that last episode is, it's the back and forth about trust. It's like, right, right. Uh, he says, he says, this is also where, as Rob noted, or Natalie, I think this was you, uh, it's when things do not go as plan that concerns me what then. Anakin says it's when things don't go as plan that we, the Jedi, are at our best.

Trust me. Uh, trust me. I reserve my trust for those who take action, general Skywalker. Then let me remind you, we rescued you back there. And I reserve my trust for those that understand gratitude, Captain Tarkin. Damn. It's like, the rank shit is very funny to me. Uh, but yeah, then this, this talk, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't, Tarkin comes across

throughout this whole thing. Do we skip over the bit? This has already happened where they're like, oh, we got to be careful. Don't shoot inside of the gas tube. And Tarkin is like, I hope someone tells the droids that. And it's like, all right, bro. Like, yeah, I get it. They're going to shoot at us no matter where we are. But like, it's important that we tell our people not to do it from in here, because that's the part of this we can control asshole. Yeah. You know? Tarkin knows best. Because if we didn't say it, someone would actually pull a trigger and you'd all blow up because you're in the gas tube. Or maybe you wouldn't.

Maybe I'm underestimating the clones here and the clones already knew that. Like, Anakin is like, make sure you don't shoot inside of here. And the clones are all in a private com channel being like, all right, asshole. We have no shit. You don't shoot inside of the open gas vein. But it's kind of the thing that you just, you say. Like, it's like, even though everyone knows it, it's like the thing that you say because you have to say it, Because

stressful situation Well if there's a switch On the wall That says Kill everyone I'm going to say Like hey Just say I know

Look I know I'm being that guy Don't touch the switch That says kill everyone It will kill everyone It will It's not a joke It will do it It's not

Hey hey Did anyone see No one's been by that switch Right No one's been by the Kill everyone switch Okay cool Just checking

And then Tarkin is like Well I hope the droids Don't flip the Kill Everyone switch Like, all right, yeah, no fucking shit. Yeah. I also hope that. Me too. I guess, but you're right.

I guess it's like, they're repeating the same conversational beats. And this is why he's not very interesting here, which kind of sucks. Because, like, Natalie, I, like, I dead thought that, like, you were referring to, I was like, they're the same conversation effectively. Like, I don't trust the Jedi. And this time, Atkins' take his, well, have an ironed your trust? Aren't I, aren't I different than the other Jedi? aren't I like I'm such a pick-me

Jedi yeah uh-huh cool girl Anakin not like the other Jedi yeah and Targan's like I find their methods ineffective the Jedi are peacekeepers and Anakin's like you know

I find our methods ineffective too and it's just like I mean I agree from the standpoint of like you're not winning but I also don't feel like it's like one of those things where and to be fair

this is actually a really good going back to the war on terror thing this is a good depiction of the logic of people like we need to get tough is there are people who will convince themselves like the proto-fascists

or the people have like fascist inclinations will convince themselves that like why aren't things going well is because we are not using the full unrestrained might that is at our disposal we're not using our moral

and physical superiority to the best effect and it's almost always bullshit right It was the whole, like, you know, in Rambo, too, where he's like, they're going to let us win this time. It's like, the United States bombed every inch of Southeast Asia, including the parts they didn't cop to. Like, the number of people who died during that war is just ridiculous. It didn't matter because that's not what was going to determine that outcome. Like, it wasn't, we didn't get tough enough.

But in a war like this, you will find people. who like they will convince themselves well what if we just did the same thing but harder and meaner and that would be that is what we will be that was that is what will lead us to victory and what they're actually talking about there is what we need to do is discard the restraints that the logic of like being a democracy and being humane in any respect still puts on us even if it actually isn't providing a constraint on our action even if that is not dictates hating at all how we end up fighting. So I guess from that standpoint, like, Tarkin is a representative of, like, he's no military genius. He's a guy who's like, we should bomb those bastards at the Stone Age. And he's posting on a forum in 2006. Tarkin is out here singing, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran, right?

Iran, yeah, yeah, yeah. So to an extent, like, I actually do appreciate that what they don't do here is present Tarkin is like, oh, man, he's like this genius and the right-hand man of Palpatine. No, he's just some guy. He's some guy who likes big toys. And that really is who he always has. Yeah. His perspective on war is, we already said it, is like the bigger number wins and the person

who's willing to hit the button wins. And Star Wars, we just had this conversation. Was this in the Patreon that we ended up talking about this? Not in the Mortis episode itself. If we should go to patreon.com slash civilized for more Mortis talk. If you want to hear us continue to talk about mortis and unpack what worked and didn't work for it, please go to our Patreon. We had a really good conversation.

And one of the things that came up in it, I don't remember exactly what the question was that led this conversation here, but was about the ways in which, oh, it was about Star Wars as science fiction versus science fantasy. And one of the things that we got to is this idea that, like, the big technological toy will always lose to the person who has a mastery of the force and of themselves. And that's part of the ethos of Star Wars. And Tarkin is so the embodiment of the person who thinks that the big mechanical toy should win. and that's how you fight wars. And I think in some ways this is also the limits of the war allegory, because Star Wars wants to be a story that's allegorical about morals and about ethics and about ethos and who you choose to be.

And it does not map in the way that you're talking, Rob, to the way wars are actually fought. Like, we've never seen the Republic do the thing that Tarkin is saying that they do. The Jedi are not pulling punches. You said earlier, they use that proto-nuke on the, on the, on the, the droid army that eventually brings in the Zillow Beast. We see them, you know, because of the makeup of the war, we don't see them like executing commanders, or rather we do. It's just they're battle droids, you know?

We see them kill people constantly. It's just that they're droids. And so it's like, I don't even know how you map Tarkin's vision of what the war should be onto the war we've seen because we've never seen the Republic not be the Republic about shit and not do, do you know what I mean? And the thing we haven't, the fact that it's always droids, the thing we haven't seen is, and this is maybe a point they could get into, which is that the Republic has never seems to have undertaken an offensive action against like a separatist world that supported all this. We haven't seen them go after like separatist Italy or something like that, where it's like, you know what we're going to do to start like turning the tide here is we're just going to knock. one of these pillars out from under the separatists.

That's not true. Geonosis is that. It's just a geonosis is going to the people that they don't count as people. It's bugs, but they're people. I mean, I was thinking about this later. In the next episode, I'm going to spoil the end of this arc briefly, just talk about this. There's Asoka kills somebody at the end of this arc. I know that we're going to talk about this in like 30 minutes anyway.

And I wrote down to my notes, oh, shit, is this the first person we've seen Asoka kill? And the answer's like, of course not. Even saying not droids, we know she's got some geonosians, right? feel like it is. It wants you to... A hundred percent does. The hundred percent this moment is supposed to be, holy shit, Asoka just killed someone

for the first time. Yes. Yes. But like the clones and the Jedi are out here killing Gia Nosen's left and right. We know that they, it's not, it is, I guess maybe there have there been times when they would have committed clones to die in order to take down grievous or committed Jedi to die to take down grievous, but they chose not to, like by just throwing more and more ships at him or something.

maybe. But by and large, they've been trying to kill Grievous for a minute. It's not like they're not out here doing everything they can. And it's not even like the Jedi and the Republic don't try to invest in their own weird super weapons, whether that's a cloaked submarine spaceship that they use in one instance or like they're, or the Zillow Beast research. Like that shit is happening out here. The Republic is trying to do that stuff. So, so yeah, I think that that you're right, Rob, the thing to take from this is that slightly more complex thing, which is. not that Tarkin's right or that that Tarkins model it's specifically that Tarkins model doesn't fit and that there are people who insist on it fitting anyway, right? We're like two weeks out from it, yeah, the New York Times printing the story about how a division of the U.S. military bombed an important infrastructural dam in Syria a number of years ago, a few years ago, really, against, despite denying that they did it and against rules saying that they shouldn't do it, right? We are already do the shit. We are already playing Tarkins. game. I think the Tarkin perspective that you see this sort of proto-fascist, you know, sentiment that you see, Rob, is like people want to just do that shit out in the light of day instead of just knowing that we do it anyway. And they want to feel good about it and they

want to be valorized for it. Yeah. Like that they want, they're, you know, they're tired of having to say we shouldn't just kill everyone, right? They're, like, they're tired of having to say we should like use restraint and instead they want to be celebrated for like, yes, what bold vision, we absolutely should, like, erase this entire part of the world from existence. We deliver the news. In this case, the nukes. So, like, I am kind of gratified that they didn't present Tarkin as, like, there's no, there's no, like, Satan speeches in Paradise Lost, where, like, that guy can talk a good game.

Instead, he seems like such a kind of a putts. The thing that's frustrating is, like, and it's what we've run into sometimes occasionally, Anakin's ability to be swayed by this just makes Anakin look like such a meathead. It's like that thing. He is, but the thing is, like, you start losing, like, part of the tragedy of Anakin is, like, oh, one of the, it could have been one of the greatest Jedi, could have been. And instead, you start to look at it more the way, like, in that scene where he gets, gives his theory of the war, and you see, like, the animators know what Padme is starting to think

of this dude, which is like, here's my increasingly messy hymbo husband that, like, I just need to keep, like, the number of things that don't talk about him continue to grow. We just need to continue to, like, build a little moat around him, uh, so he can't fuck things up. Unfortunately, he has the keys to a fucking super cruiser filled with clones, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. but him being like yeah you know you make a great point about the Jedi I thought that too and it's like

for him to be swayed by this like this dude who's like it happens so easily I mean I feel like we've had we've had this conversation right we've had this conversation yeah but it's like he's so quick

I don't know it's I think we had this same we've had this conversation bore I think we had it in Mortis that it just comes you so rarely we so rarely get to sit in tension with how Anakin feels and how Anakin he so easily like admits the dark side or so easily like agrees with and is swayed by the dark side that it's so it feels like he's just so

malleable like he's just not there's not as much of a pushback from his side like in this conversation he's just agreeing and agreeing and agreeing and there's no like little disagree to kind of like oh but we're still like a little we're still different we're not the same um i just because i i truly believe that by this point in his life he is already that dude yeah yeah he hasn't killed the younglings yet But he absolutely did slaughter a village of people and then, like, lived without any repercussions to that. We saw him force choke a dude to torture him in season one, you know? Yeah. Maybe it was season two.

But still. And in a real way, I think if there's any tension that exists in Anakin, it's that he has to put on the good face when he's around other Jedi and has to like, that he, the tension is always in him. It's not when he gets to, this is a relief to him. Oh, my God. you're a real you're someone who agrees with me I get to be the I get to drop the fucking act and get to say to you finally that I think the other Jedi are a bunch of fucking

pussies that is what's happening here and like that is and it's why he likes going to Palpatine like Palpatine we said this before that like Palpatine is his great enabler because he's just someone that he can go to to vent and Palpatine can be like yeah you know your perspective it would be better if the Jedi

thought the way that you did and like that I think is I've given up on him in a way that's like He's already fallen. The minute of the Jedi or dad, he's going on a podcast tour. Right, exactly. Like, we don't ask us to Palpatine. We're never like, oh, we never see Palpatine.

It seems like the second that he starts doing, using Force Lightning, he becomes a little frogman. We know that he's already fallen and that the appearance of being fallen only comes later. And that's not, it's closing the door on something earlier than I think the series wants you to. But, like, I think you start looking at it in that light. It's more interesting. I think that's, I think that's really it, is that the series, my expectation for, and I think the series, uh, uh, shows itself, or wants you, wants you to believe that there's, there, the, the tension is still there. The debate is still there. The Anakin is still, like, torn between two sides. And, like, I'm stupid, so I'm also asking, I'm also like, yeah, I wanted to be torn with these sides. See, I think it's, I think the problem is that. But it's not, it's not. It's not. It's not. Because we keep having this conversation where I'm like, why is he so easily dark side vibe? I don't know that they know what they're doing sometimes either.

Let's not give them too much credit here. I think what I'm saying is like true in a story perspective, but I don't know that they're like, they're not always teeing it up in that way. They are teeing it up as if his soul is on trial or hanging in the balance, right? That's what I'm saying. It's like I think they want you to still buy into there's a, there's a, the potential that he can be changed there's the potential that like he he this struggle is going to continue until it reaches like a boiling point which is you know four five seasons from now um but like you said awesome four four he like you said also he forced choked someone to in the first first season it's

like it's it's done and i don't want to i don't want to admit it's done because i i love the tension i love the struggle i think it's so interesting but I do feel like I need to shift perspective to where you're at in terms of who does he feel comfortable admitting how he really feels around and when does that feel when when does he feel like he can be authentic and when does he feel like he needs to protect his what what he really thinks. Yeah. Rob, you've been trying to say something. I was just like I was just thinking I tend prefer story-wise for the deal with the devil

to have an offer on it and every time the show tries to tip like he can be tempted it's a blank sheet of paper as far as I'm concerned as being offered and I do think that the writers

do think they're maybe nailing this more than they actually are but the thing I do have to admit is like hear from the advantage of 2022 people like this are dumber than I thought like it turns out like the deal with the devil does like I always think like

The story should have something, like, tempt someone like me. What would I be tempted by? Right. And it would be the... Well, that's Revenge of the Sith. Revenge of the Sith is the temptation is saving your wife you love. And so that's the deal. Like, that's, like, this huge deal.

But then all these little micro-transactions are, you get nothing. You get... But also, like, there would be a, like, the whole thing in the Mortis Arc, right? Where it's, like, Anakin, if you... Like, it's kind of dumb. But, like, if you throw in, you can bring peace of the galaxy. You can end this, like, this war. Okay, cool.

But instead, we get Tarkin here at this point just being, like, I don't know, you consider just warring harder. And that bugs me. But, again, like, in this vantage, like, the most influential thinkers on, like, the right, people who just openly embrace fascism are some of the dumbest fucking people that you can imagine. Like, one of the leading lights of, like, fascist thought in the United States is, like, Tucker Carlson, who is basically, like, the guy whining ahead of you in line at the sales clerk because he came the day after, like, the coupon expired.

Like, that is, his political worldview is just this boorish, like, entitled meathead just, like, trying to find a manager to yell at. And if I, go ahead. I was going to say, another thing that we should be doing is when we think about the deal with the devil, we often frame that. as a good person being tempted off their path. And if instead we also think about this as a person who is already in tension between these two sides needs to be offered not just by the devil, but by the angel also.

And the angel's offer is terrible. This next episode has, and this again is like from the end of the next episode, but Anakin says of Tarkin, well, I think we need people like him. This is a war. If we aren't willing to do what it takes to win, we risk losing everything we try to protect. And Obi-Wan's response to that, his rejoinder to, we might lose everything we're trying to protect is, unfortunately, Ward tends to distort our point of view. If we sacrifice our code, even for victory, we may lose that which is most important, our honor. No, you idiot,

Anakin doesn't talk about honor. He cares about people. He cares about people living and dying. And Obi-Wan can't even get to, if we'd go down that road in the long run, more people will suffer. That's all he needs. That's all he needs from one Jedi is the reason we have these codes is that when we don't follow them, people get hurt. That yes, it's difficult and it's self-sacrificing. And it means that there is suffering in your life. And it means you can't connect to people in ways X, Y, Z, and none of us are perfect. But at the end of the day, if we give into this shit, more people get hurt, Anakin. No one makes that argument for him once. They talk about codes and honor and the light side and the dark side and the you know the the truth of

your soul and all that other shit he doesn't give a fuck he wants his wife to live he wants there not to be slaves on tattooing he wants the clones that report to him to not be thrown into the fucking meat grinder that's really practical material shit and the Jedi can't speak that language and Palpatine does all the time and like even if Tarkin's bullshit is wrong what does he say he says we can win this war if X everyone doesn't know how to win a fucking war and he doesn't pretend to know how to win a fucking war. None of the Jedi pretend to know how to win the fucking war. They say that there is a strategy of warfare that's about doing it the right way, but that isn't going to compel someone like Anakin who is so consumed with fear of loss

and with grief, a thing most Jedi don't know about because they don't ever fucking love anything just to lose outside of their masters and their Padawans, which they like sublimate into this greater vision of what it means to be a good Jedi anyway. So like, I think that we can talk about it as the devil's offer, but we have to introduce the angels all. offer two and the angel ain't offer in shit so yeah it definitely like flips the situation a little bit when the thing that you're supposed to be focusing on is like what decision is you need to make but in what ways is his worldview being reinforced right like I think part of the arc of I mean targan here is not very interesting but the arc of him being like him initially saying well I don't

trust the Jedi and Anakin being like oh I've met somebody who doesn't trust the Jedi that doesn't happen to be every day. Let me chat this guy up. Right. And then them like slowly forming this bond throughout the episodes is a fun seed to see sort of grow even if Tarkin is kind of lame in these episodes. Yeah, you're right. Like not even Palpatine at this point will have said to Anakin that he doesn't trust a Jedi. Yeah. That's a big, that's a big claim. You know what I think is missing from this a little bit too is I think that Cushing did bring to the role in the original movie is that Tarkin seems like a man who,

who has a bit of wistfulness for the era that's ending. Like, he is a man who's ushering in the destruction of these things. He's the, you know, not maybe the designer of the Death Star, but certainly the guy who, like, authorized the program and, like, crafted the strategy that it's going to fulfill. But, like, in his few conversations with Vader, in that movie, he is a man who is aware that, like, Vader is now a man out of time.

And he feels a bit sorry for him. He feels a bit sorry, like, for as powerful as Vader is. his friend's moment is ending Tarkin thinks as is the Senate and all the old ways and this Tarkin lacks any of that perspective like there's a humanity in Cushing's Tarkin that like he is evil but there's also a quality where you can

sort of see that like you almost sense that like he and Vader go back right that there are like lots of conversations and discussions between them And this Tarkin is like Bigger? Like, like, so we get things like, man, why don't we have prisons like this at home?

And so I think that's the other thing is like, it's kind of this like really, it's like this really slavish design to like, we must make, we like have a great little cartoon that looks so much like young Peter Cushing, but not actually really a great understanding of like what the performer and the script did in the original movie to make that character stick out in our memory?

Like, why do we remember Tarkin and not the other dudes at the table, except maybe General Tag who gets choked? We remember Tag because he gets choked. Why do we remember Tarkin and not the other dudes of the table? And that's missing here. Yeah. A big thing that came up, I don't have this Filoni zone. I think that it was a pretty dry one, but it's about Tarkin and about trying to bring

this in. And one of the things that they do mention is that, like, Tarkin is one of the only people in a New Hope who is able to disagree with Vader and not get choked and also not get, I mean, you know, Tarkin gets his come up into the end, obviously, and Vader goes on to live because he's not on board because he gets kind of like balked away from the Death Star. But he does push back on Vader a number of times, and they have that sort of relationship where that does not end in. Or I guess Tarkin also wields that sort of power by that point that he cannot just be dealt with in that way. And it's, it's, I wish the foundation between these two had seemed a little bit strong.

wrong. Or, I don't know, again, I think I can talk myself into thinking, like you said, Rod, that, like, Anakin is just kind of a hymbo and is just looking to be supported by someone who agrees with him. But it would have been nice to have that grounding here in, you know, why does Tarkin, why does Tarkin want to, how does Tarkin say, or what would he say by a new hope the reason for having the Death Star is? And I think you're right that it is this, like, claim about a good society and defending society from, you know, the rebellion and blah, blah, blah. And here, I don't see him giving a fuck about any sort of society. Whether or not that's true and he's just like a, you know, a maniac who wants to blow up a bunch of people, like maybe you can make that reading of the character. But it tends to be that these people have very high-minded ideals of a particular type of society that, like you said, they're nostalgic for, whether it existed or not. And it could have been really cool to have this Tarkin talk about the old republic in a certain

way or talk about the years before the war. and how we have to get back to the truth of the, you know what I mean? Like, what? Well, he does reference the old republic in the next episode. That's somebody else who says, we haven't had fighting like this since the old republic. That's the one of the two of the Jedi. Yeah, this is the new Jedi. What is he talking about?

Yeah, I was like, old Republic? Question mark, question, question, bar, question, bar, I guess he's talking about the Jedi and the Sith fighting, like the big Sith war, but I don't fucking know. I feel like there's been big, yeah. I guess this was like the, the next episode really speaks to, I think what you said at the top of the episode of this feeling like a series, like a series a season finale because it is like the

Infinity War fight vibe. Everyone shows up. Everyone is here. Everyone shows up. Yeah, I was, that line was really bizarre to me but I was and then obviously he's never going to get addressed ever again. I think there's a

cheap pop, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Whoa, old republic. You know. They didn't get me. I was like what are you talking about? How do you know this? Watching the hollow viz? Like, what are you? Like, what are you talking about?

Anyway, we haven't gotten to the most important thing in this episode. Yeah. Is it the piggyback ride? Because I'm waiting. Huh? The piggyback ride. I'm on the edge of my seat. Wait, what's the piggyback ride?

Do I miss the piggyback ride? So it might be the third episode, but they're in the, like, lava section. They have to go down a hill. And Anakin's like, I'm thinking fast. let's go do this and then like they don't address it at all but target immediately gets on his bag somebody else gets on obiwant's back and then they have to go down that little wall together oh my god yeah i did that's the next episode but oh my god that needed a more time i need to find we should we should have marinated in there i don't know how i miss this i don't know how i you know

i'm supposed to think it's important when aniken walks on the room and him and tarkin's eyes meet and then they have the conversation about palpiting and they both stand next to each other and look at other. There's no, like, insult in the ear, but, like, fucking Antiquette smiles too wide or, like, they're, like, where do I put my hands? I was robbed of this. I'm sorry that this is not what I meant, because this is better than what I meant. What I meant is, like, sad, which is the moment in the second episode where we lose one of our rookies that has been with us since the first season now. And Echoes, So I didn't think Echo really needed to die here because...

What was the plan? The plan? We're back here again. Is Echo the one from those opening episodes who would just fucking run off like that? No, he was the one who would just repeat the orders they were getting through the radio. It was heavy. That's why he's Echo. He was repeat order.

No, but who was the one who, you're right, heavy would run up. But wasn't there always someone else who got owned and would slow everybody down? I think he already died. okay he probably already he's probably already dead or not i don't remember yeah no echo was just the the repeating orders guy but he so everything converges uh at a point where uh skywalker and uh obiwan anakin and obiwan i don't know why i call him skywalker like i'm in the show yeah um anican and obiwan all uh meet up and And they're at the rendezvous point where their ship is.

And there's like a bunch of giant turrets in this like arena. And it's not an arena, but it's definitely shaped like one. And there's a bunch of flying droids everywhere. So they're like, oh, we got to take out those turrets because they're going to blow up the ship. But nobody is currently manning the turrets, which is not clear. clear at the start of this fight. I was like, the torrents, they're going to shoot her right now. Like, what are you talking about?

But I guess nobody was on the turrets just yet. No. We have to get that sick commando droid doing a gymnastics display. Which was sick. I mean, the commandoids are like sexy. They're great. Let's just, they're... We'll just say it. Uh-huh. I haven't written down here. I have

yo, these guys, let's go commando droids, baby. Love to Commando droids. yeah they basically there's like some ground fighting there's some aerial fight OC comes through he leaves his little observation deck button zone and comes down to the fight and Echo there's a commander droid gets up to the to one of the turrets and Obi-Wan I thought made a pretty good attempt

on the turret I thought the turret was out I think it was Obi-Wan or Anakin but apparently it wasn't so they charge at it Anakin ends up charging at it from one of these big staff riders to stand-up riders

with speaking of piggyback rides another piggyback ride because peel is on his back during this and they charge it out and try to shoot at it and it just shoots them out of the air the thing it was designed to do because it's an anti-aircraft gun and they just crash and get knocked off.

But the thing crashes into the turret and like I thought that was like okay and the turret is done. Yeah, crashes behind it and they get dumped off to the side. But then I don't, Echo is like, oh no, we got to do it. He picks up one of the little shields, the little riot

shields that the droids of them using and just runs toward the land, the gangway of the ship and he it's blown up. There's like, Echo, look out. And I'm like, Echo, what are you doing, man? Like, if he was drawing fire, why did he go walk in front of the ship?

That they needed to get out. And then by, it is the most, how do we write ourselves out of this one? It happens to be that the ship blows up in such a way that a part of the ship hole bounces up into the sky and lands perfectly on the turn and blows it up. So it's not a problem anymore. something that he could not have known what's going to happen why did they do

why why why why just like why I don't know this is not the way echo echo deserve better they also don't even like go get it like they don't go get his body they don't go get his body

they don't do a funeral they don't do a funeral for him they do a funeral for some other motherfucker who I just met I don't know about this guy who I know about his echo We just see his help. We don't even see him. Maybe he's going to come back.

Maybe he'll come back. Yeah, the, the Wikipedia says arc trooper Echo is seemingly killed in battle, which I was surprised by. But yeah, the frustrating thing about the scene for me is that like, so we've, the clone deaths that we've seen in this arc have been like all timers. They've been pretty bad ones. So to like have this like, oh my God, Echo's dead when like every clone. in this arc deserved that? I was like, I, no.

I'm sorry. You've not got me here. Yeah. And Echo just deserve better than to die in the most meaningless, like, stupid, like, there's no,

it's not a hero, there's no outcome that he's going for. It's just like he walks out in the middle with that flexi shield thinking like, this can resist cannon rounds. And it's like, I, like, look,

I don't know how force fields work, but I can just tell you that's not going to do it. It's not. It just doesn't, like, it doesn't reflect anything about his character as we know him. Like, we know him as the repeat guy. Yeah. We don't, like, and, and, and, oh, he's out here acting like droid bait, and he's echo.

He's not droid bait. He's not. So, they make their escape, and they get, like, they're sort of flushed into the, like, wilderness of the Citadel planet. They're hiding among, like, the canyons and such. And they point out, man, we can't get off this planet. Now, our escape ship has just been blown up. And Obi-Wan, is it, Obi-Wan's appeal, in tones, that is the trap of the Citadel.

They made it so that even if you escape the tower, it would be impossible for a fugitive to get off the planet. Yeah, dude, that's every prison. That's just like, honestly, that's airports. That's, like, that's just anywhere, like, look, anywhere you go. And there's like, you don't have transportation. You can't get out. It can't get off of any planet. You can't get off of any planet without a ship, actually.

I was furious about the scene because it was the point that we had made before that, like, this is supposed to be a special Jedi prison. We should have saw some special Jedi anti-maneuvers. Should have been some Salamiuri out there. Anakin being like, we're not any fugitives. We can get past this. It's like, you're supposed to be specifically. weak to this in some way like

yes go back to what the concept was oh no the van is blown up that's it just the Jedi van it's destroyed they they especially built those lasers the fuck Jedi vans but that's the point that they're trying to make right

like somebody somebody says god this prison would be so much more epic if it was in Jedi hands than in like these herb herbie hands like that like the Jedi's the The Citadel is not being used to its full capacity. Like, there must be, like, mad buttons they haven't pressed because they're, like, force buttons.

And they're just like, oh, yeah, we don't know what that. That switch doesn't work. Like, we don't know what that one does. We can't use it. It's like when they try to get in the holocron chamber and you have to use the force to open that door. They got mad doors like that. And that's where all the real shit is. That's just, like, a storage room now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, they just, like, throw whatever in there. So next episode ends with them, you know, the, you know, the Inescapable Citadel, cell coverage goes out there, and Evan Peel's just like, hey, the rescue plan has gone bad. You need to send the fleet in, and they're like, it's going to be hard, but we can do it. And from there, we get them being pursued more by Sobex, like, droids. And I do want to call out Is droid carcination happening?

Because like we've seen now a couple times They got this new like impossible to kill crab droid Giant enemy crowd Yeah But this one doesn't have a weak point No This one's just just a beast And it's irresistible

And it can climb down the walls And I think like Wait did you say it was irresistible Like it's just that appealing Because it's truly like damn In both senses of the word Austin. You know what?

I'm with you. But yeah, so they corner the Jedi and their allies. And this is where we get the piggyback ride, but before we get that, we get R2 asking his droids to die

for the Jedi. And the droids don't even wait. They just volunteer. That's right. They come up to them and they're like, we'll hold them off. It was an honor to serve with you, sir. Absolute champions. How do we not get any of the clones being like, maybe we're wrong about these droids? Maybe these droids are okay.

I know, right? How wasn't there a whole B-plot? Get rid of Tarkin, and the whole B-plot should be droid-clone bonding. We're not so different, you and I. They're not. Yeah, just a scene with them just like talking about their commanders. Right? I mean, I feel like

they kind of set up the fact that this is I mean, they're setting up the fact that oh my God, we're fighting with battle droids, like what? Like that's like the first reaction from the clones when R2 rolls up with his

custom droids. And they're all like, how are we putting our trust into a bunch of these like battle droids, blah, blah, blah. And then it's just never like really addressed again. And they're doing a great job. Like, they're doing so well.

And then they sacrifice themselves for these motherfuckers. I'm just like, put some respect on them. Third-class citizens, you know? Speaking of, speaking of droids really quickly, speaking of being class citizens, there was a really interesting moment in the first episode, and I think continues through some of the other ones, where O.C. Sobeck kills a droid. orders a droid to be killed as an example to other droids. Yeah.

And that had me a little shook in the moment because I feel like it's one of the few, if not first instances, in which, well, actually, it's definitely not one of the first instances, but this idea of making an example of droids in front of other droids, like striking fear into droid. It like twists around a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. It really makes you think that they're not just their programming, that like maybe, like, why would you want to strike fear into a, like a binary robot? Like, what's fear? Fear is an emotion. Right. Well, all they have emotions now? It's, it kind of, it's like on one hand, is he brutally killing one of his own men? Yes, but on the other hand, in doing it, he is sort of, you know, recognizing the humanity of the other droids around him. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And I just think this is like, if there's anything that's really important to me about this arc, it's, uh, droids are human. George's are human. Droid's are people. They truly are.

And, uh, I just think more people should say that out loud in this show. Uh-huh. Yeah. Sadly, the people saying it are like, and that's why we must terrorize them. It's like they're people, but in the end of, of Starship Troopers sense of like they're afraid of us

yeah now we know how to handle them we should fucking watch Starship Troopers anyway piggyback ride happens I see it now

what can you give me the time stamp yes it's like four minutes it's like four might be four minutes on those 3.52 350 he hops right on and they happen so smoothly

and part of it is part of it is the data says this is why I don't remember is I was obsessed with a different thing happening here which I misprioritized I think you're right piggyback ride is number one The fact that that just happens so

naturally. It's they've all been trained they're walking down the cliff like face first which I'm sure you can do and I'm sure if you were some sort of cliff climber you tell me like oh yeah that's a we do this when you have to carry someone on your back or whatever but they like put down their anchors and then instead of repelling down the way

you like would see in like a you know like a fireman like a fireman yeah you instead get step step step like as if they're walking on a horizontal surface but face down towards the ground and i was like this seems dangerous what if they just fucking fall um but so i missed yeah i mean all you need is like the person on your back's balance to shift like their weight to shift forward and then they're fucking going they're going over your head and onto the lava splat yeah that's right Anyway, I miss my droids A weird excuse to Give piggybacks

Tarkin And company No, no, no, this is the only way We can do this, like you have to get on my back Broke, the hotel only has one bed Woke We have to piggyback rides to each other actually They've cornered us

We have to start making out it'll confuse them Oh me once done it like twice at this point right anika should be learning that learn from your mentor man that's right this is true um what happens in this episode anyway I blacked out of this episode

anakin starts being like you know Obi-one Tarkin says it's got some points he has some interesting ideas about how we should be doing this and Obi-on looks at him like you're fucking idiot he's like that's a really simplistic point of view or something like that

and then it's like either way he's a good captain and I'm like dude we don't even know that. What we know is that as captain, he surrendered. Like, it's, it's like, well, he's got experience. Yeah, losing. This guy ate shit.

And so, then Anakin quietly goes back to Tarkin and is like, you know, you shouldn't like talk shit to the Jedi about the Jedi to the Jedi. And Tarkin says... We can talk. Yeah, and Taryn says, I stand by my principles, no matter

what. And Ackon But Anakin swooned. He's so in love. Principles. And Tarkin, is this the point at which Tarkin says, I'm a friend, like, I'm a close friend of Palpatine. Like, I'm not afraid of, like, consequences. Like, I know Palpatine will support me. And Anacan's like, I too am a friend of Palpatine.

Wink, wink. And I'm just like, okay, Anakin. Like, I don't think you realize that Tarkin's like, wink, wink, wink, we're evil, right? Yeah, that's exactly it. And Anakin's like, yeah, yeah, me too, but has no, like, it's like the friend of, yeah, it's like, are we all friends, friends of Palpatine, wink, wink, wink, wink. And Anakin's like, yeah, totally. I just feel, the ride home could be like very interesting.

I wish we would have gotten the flight home. As Tarkin, like, tries to feel out, like, do you really understand, or are you, like, a little pawn in his game and you think that you're, because it really comes across as if Tarkin is like, oh, shit, Palpatine got a Jedi in his pocket. Like, oh, that fucking rules. This is so funny to me. And Anagin's like, it's great to meet friends. I love it with cool people are friends. You get Tarkin, Tarkin being like, all right, so, like, you brought your brain. round shirt, right?

Like, we're going to the valley tonight. And Anagan's like, we got uniforms now? I didn't get, nobody told me this. It's especially amazing. Because it's not just Aniken being like, oh, we have the same friend. It's being, like, Annaken being like, Uncle lets you use his Xbox 2. Where Stuygens is like, we're evil, right? You're going to betray the Jedi, right?

Yeah, like, Anakin's like almost like trying to, trying to like, overcompensate and be like, no, no, no, like, me too. Like, I hang out in his chambers, too. Like, we talk. He got me high once, so, I mean. It's very funny. I love the little Palpatine name drop alpha competition. It's great. Around here is we also get our new Jedi of the week, Master Tin, T-I-I-N, who's just like a big dude with horns. And I don't know why he's in this episode He's like there to pilot a ship And to be like, damn, there's a lot of ships out there

And it really feels like someone won a fan competition To get their favorite Jedi in the episode somehow Do you know what I mean? I don't think that actually happened But that was the vibe to me Yeah Well, it sounds like that might be the vibe in the writer's room Is just like coming up with his shit

I think he was one of the If I'm looking at his Wikipedia carefully He was one of the Jedi who were slain right before Kit Fisto was killed. I think he's in the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Oh, that would make sense.

Yeah, yeah, he totally is, right? He's one of the guys who goes with Mace to arrest Palpatine. Is that right? I think so, yeah. He's in that room, yeah, yeah. He's one of those guys, which makes sense is now I'm just, I've been not reading the page, but I'm scrolling through appearances, and he's in, like, mad episodes to come.

He's in, like, a bunch. So, like, I don't know how core he'll be. Maybe he won't be a big deal. But this could be us meeting, like, a principal character going forward. That'd be fun. He seems cool. I like his horns. We need to call it a quick thing.

So this is where the warden releases the dogs. But also, he brings out his, like, personal honor guard of, like, we've seen the, like, you know, jump-suited, like, like, like, prison guard uniformed, uh, droids and the orange. Now we've got the purple and orange ones in honor of the Lakers. His tactical droid is Nickelodeon. This is worse. The purple green one? No, it's purple and yellow for the Lakers.

Explicitly for the Lakers. Wait, what? Wait, really? Yeah. Are we going to the Filoni zone? No, we're not. Oh, okay. But Austin, what's the tactical droid? Who's the tactical droid named for? The tactical droid's name is is K2B4, and it's a Kobe Bryant reference. Oh, wow. Was Kobe a fan of Clone Wars?

Either way around, probably. Not even a little. Yeah, I have never, I would use this as my platform to say, I have never made peace with the fucking rape allegations against Kobe Bryant, and people just deciding that was true now. It's stronger than allegations. Yeah, dog. Like, he was like basically so.

from a certain point of view I'm 100% guilty of this but I'm going to reach a settlement and like massively pay this person off and including including with no retraction like whenever these fuckers like weas a lot of this shit oftentimes the accuser has to be like

you know what I shouldn't have said anything this time she didn't and he had to apologize and like publicly pay like a fortune yep so anyway maybe I wouldn't put him in my show and I know people like I bet I

There's He's been He's memorial He's like Such a Pillar of like L.A culture

Yeah In a way that's like So beyond him as Like a actual public figure Like it's like so It's like this abstraction Of who he actually was It's why

I mean you You everywhere in L.A. There's Kobe memorials Of course. Everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not even a question. It is a fandom that is so weird they made Mamba a thing.

Like, you can't, like, it's just like, how weird is the Kobi Stan culture? It is that in the middle of all of this, he invented an alter ego in a Nike commercial. And people are like, yeah, he's black Mamba now. And it's like, what is going on? And they're like, Mamba. that's so corny that that that this is a reference in this yeah so that's that's all I simply wouldn't put Kobe Bryant in my shit that's just not what I would do or Kobe reference

I'll let you have the Lakers won't even know it's the Lakers you know not trying to start beef with Natalie who I think is pro Lakers I am pro Lakers unfortunately actually I'm pro I stopped being pro Lakers as soon as LeBron joined the world Yeah, good, good. You should get into the Clippers. Now she's a king stand. Sacramento, baby.

Sacramento all the way. Central Valley represent. There was an era there. I've said this before, but I know we're getting a sports talk on more civilized age. We play radio fans, like dying in their chairs as it infects a different Rob Zagney podcast. There was a period of my life. So I grew up as a Bulls fan because it was the Jordan era. Like, that's what you were if you were a little kid.

And then post Jordan, I just didn't have a team because I was like, I'm not going to stay with the Bulls. I didn't really, I liked Michael Jordan. I liked those players, but like I didn't have any Chicago fandom. I wasn't going to go to Chicago. And by that point, I'd convince myself I didn't like the Philadelphia 76ers because that was the local team and I was rooting against them whenever the Bulls came to town. So it was like, I can't become a 76ers fan. That's bandwaggingy and weird. Yeah. So there was a period of my life where I was a Kings where I was rooting for the Sacramento Kings. I just liked how they played. And that's, funny, I guess, to me.

So, I'm not anymore. But maybe I should become a Kings fan again. Do you a team now? No, not really. No, no, because it's like, I like to see the Warriors play well. But like I can't be an out-and-out Warriors fan. It's real corny. Do you know what I mean?

What I should have done is I should have become a Nets fan when they first moved to Brooklyn. I was working in Brooklyn. That was the moment. And then I could have had this rise with them as KD and everybody else has come on board. Yeah, but then you'd already be obliged to be like, and I think it's cool. that Kyrie doesn't want to get vaccinated but I'm so excited to see him play roadgames. You should have become a Suns fan like six years.

Like all of our fucking friends who are like somehow. Shout us to all the Suns fans that we follow on Twitter. So. One thing about this dog's order that goes out that was weird. You mean the Anubas? Yeah, the Anubas. was Sobex is like and make sure they're only used

for the finding of the Jedi and I'm like what it was just so weird that he had to be like it all it was such a weird line The animal welfare reps are on set and he's got real specific instructions like

hey if we find out you're using the dogs for not Jedi tracking big trouble Mr. It read to me as like maybe the droids just like to go out with the with the puppies and like go hang and have fun doggy time But not this time this time is to find the Jedi Yeah Revoke the droid's dog privileges

Teach them a lesson they're still not people So the rescue plan again action venture stuff like assault through the picket chips, whatever, but they're all converging to the rendezvous point back in the lava caverns and Sobeck catches up with them and

does the whole, like, he beats the shit out of Tarkin and it's like doing the whole like going to flip him into the lava pit and Asoka, sorry, I missed, Evan Peele dies too. Whoops. Yeah, you skip this is a big pop. Oh yeah, this is

uh... Yeah. So they play. I got like I got anxious during this So Peel dies And as he's dying He's like Asoka, get over here And Assoca's like

I'm gonna try to go get help from somebody Who the fuck they're doing And he's like, no, nope, you're the only one here I'm about to die I should tell you my half of the coordinates For the Nexus route And she's like, oh, okay Okay fine

And I was like for the rest of this episode I was like if she forgets her half of the code I will die inside I was like anxious The whole time that she was going to forget what she was told. And, like, I was thinking about the ways of what she would need to, like, come with pneumotic devices to try to remember it. And I was like, well, maybe the Jedi have a special training for remembering things.

Maybe it's part of meditation training. I don't know. Just riding in the dirt with her lightsaber next to the body. And, like, Sobeg just finds it. Yeah. Here it is. Yeah. Anyway, it stressed me out.

I was afraid This was a good No Asoka is a Padawan actually moment In just that She Like her first instinct Even in the face of like

She's unable to To recognize and act on the fact that Evan That Master Appeal is dying Is in the process of dying and she immediately like identifies herself as not qualified for the information being received and I'm like Asoka he is dying like you just need to listen to him he is literally going to perish and then we're not going to have the other half of the coordinates but it it was like it was like a

it was a hard it was hard to watch because i felt like through the rest of the episode asoka was really carrying the you could feel the weight of like her carrying these coordinates and her insecurity with her being the one to have them like when when she meets back up with anakin and obiwan and they're like did you she's like peels dead he's on my shoulder and they're like well did you get the coordinates like she's like yes and it's like yes and it's just, like, felt, I was like, is she going to tell them right now? It's like, what's, is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is Anakin going to press her for them in a way that, like, is going to put her in a difficult position? Like, the weight of those coordinates, it's really, it hits. It hits, like, through the rest of this little arc. I will also say that this, uh, fight sequence, like, this entire episode has some of, like, really entertaining Jedi, uh, lightsaber action. Just like really well animated. Like the way that Peel and Asoka move through this specific fight in attacking all of the crab droids and everything was like really showcases Asoka as like a formidable warrior.

And like it was really cool to see Peel's kind of Yoda style. Yeah. It was just like really fun to watch. It's fun because it almost like it conceptualizes. It makes me like the Yoda shape. it a little bit more, because it's like, oh, this is a school of fighting. This is not a Yoda, just Yoda does this. Little guys learn to jump.

Little guy, Jedi, jump around like this. This is like, a thing that they've trained in. You know he and Yoda like have sparred before. I want to see it. Oh, my God, I want to see that. Well, we'll never get it. Maybe there will be like a high republic clone wars style thing eventually. And they'll do some, some duels, you know?

That would be great. Do you think I have a funeral? Go ahead, Allie. No, I was just going to say on the, on the Asoka stuff for a second, I also think that scene is really interesting with her like initially rejecting getting the secret because like every point, every like tension point during this mission, she's sort of had this idea of like, oh, well, this was why I was here. I'm going to be the one who goes to the event.

I'm going to be the one who does this thing. And for her to be like, this is the moment for her to prove herself and be like, I have to go get Anakin is really it's like we don't see this lack of confidence in her very often so to see it here it's such a pivotal moment was really interesting yeah totally also a great i'm just rewatching this now and natalie your point about it being really good action is totally right there's just lots of really sick maneuvers uh she does like the stab into the droid plus slash through it with her other saber which again she's not been using both sabers this whole arc until this fight sequence like she's only had the one out and it's been a very defensive posture and like here

where she has to go all in. She brings out the second one. And then there's a really neat beat at the very end where the dog that kills P.O. That, like, gets him. She's, like, going to, like, hit it with the sabres and she, like, pulls them together and instead uses the force to, like, throw him away

instead of trying to, like, counter with the sabers. And that's, like, a fun little beat. Like, I don't know that we need to, like, break down what the core meaning of it is so much as, like, it's a moment where she uses the force instead of using weapons, and that's, like, a nice way to punctuate the end of the fight, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like with these action sequences, like when going into this feeling like, oh, this is going to be a Star Wars ass arc, it's almost, it's very easy for me to kind of, I feel like I have to kind of challenge myself to take notice of the finesse of these types of action sequences because I think I just have a high, like, I just have a high expectation for it. So when it meets that, I'm not like, oh my God, it's like, oh, yeah. this is like a this is what it is this is like good good lightsaber good action but when you slow it down and you really like

just sit in the fighting it's extremely impressive yeah I also think there's like we haven't really talked about it but I think the planet is sick even though it's silly that it's like the anti-Jedai planet

it's kind of like a Mario Galaxy ass planet where it's like cut in half and the bottom half is just loose fucking lava and I think there's lots of really pretty. It's a really dark set of arc. Like there's lots of them in shadows and lighting

being lit, yeah, by either loose lava or the carbonite freezing chamber or the kind of the low lighting throughout the facility itself. I think that it's a really pretty set of episodes and I'd rather say that than than not. So shout us to that.

Anyway, there's a funeral. Yeah. Real quick. They toss them in the lava. I have a question. Do you think so Obi-Wan and Anakin lift his body together with the force. Do you think that that's like lifting a bag with somebody where you can feel

or like a couch and you can feel the other person's half of... Do you know what I mean? Like if two of us were moving a body, we would feel the other person carrying it. Do you think Anakin can feel Obi-Wan's like force hand on the thing? Or do you think it just feels lighter?

I think so. I think it feels lighter. I like the idea that you feel too force pushes Like, there's two, like, even if it's, even if it's synchronous, like, yeah, when you're carrying a couch, like, you feel the other person's step. Yeah, I like that. This is what I'm saying. Without some sort of, like, teamwork there, the body would just be spinning. So you sort of need the, like, tool, yeah.

Or it would just get pulled apart. Okay, sure. I liked my better. You're not Like if Anakin was like I'd fucking toss it in there And Obi-Wan was holding it back

Yeah to do this sort of slow Methodical Yeah Why did they have to toss them in the lava Though It was quick This makes me think Echo is alive

Because Echo didn't get tossed in the lava We know PIL ain't coming back He got tossed in the lava Care about Clones though They wouldn't do that They didn't bring the torso of that other guy

carrying him around so they can bury him like that's what they leave behind that sucks so bad it's so bad it sucks because it's like antithetical to the to the clone sort of like ammo of like

no man left behind like we care for our own we're brothers and it's like except when when we die in battle and we got to move on and do the funeral for this fucking rando Jedi that we just met But my boy that I've grown up with my whole life is, you know, half of his body's in the vent.

I think y'all are being towards this funeral. Like, yeah, they're honoring him in a really, like, we got places to go away. But they didn't fucking leave his body. Asoko dragged his ass back. She didn't, she could have left him there? Well, she's a kid. Like, I feel like, what, like, it's like, oh, yeah. So do you think that they're doing it for Asoka?

They're like, oh, shit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You hear him how far? Carrying them. Oh, well, yeah, no, we were totally, yeah, we should do the, um, you know, the ceremony. And again, the ceremony of the ceremony, just you're tossing in the fucking lava? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like putting something in the dumpster, right? Like, it's just, like, like, you go out to your car, you're walking past the dumpster, and you just like, you know, as long as we're getting out of here, let's just put this out.

Right in the, yeah, yeah, uh-huh. Damn. Yeah, perhaps. I just felt like, isn't there, like, some force magic that could bring him back? Like, I felt like I wouldn't have given up on... Yeah, that's Darth Plagious shit. Just yet. They don't know that.

The Jedi wouldn't tell you about this story. So... And then this is where Sobeck gets marked. Yeah. Yeah. Asoka does the Anakin thing. He's, like, stunting on Tarkin a little bit too much. Oh, my God.

He gets knifed. What a dink. disrespectful way to kill someone. Yeah. Yeah, he could have just broken him or he could have just immediately tossed Tarkin into the lava and instead he like has to... He had to make a meal out of it. He was doing some WWE shit. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, he was showing off. He was doing this taunt to get his special meter up all the way. And we get the, Asoka stabs him in the back. It's exactly the shot from the Mandalorian shit where he stabs the betraying Mandalorian and the back while he's mottogging. Oh, yes. It's exactly that. It's meant to be exactly that. We should probably go to the

Filoni zone about this before we talk more so we can get Philones to direct notes about this. Let me make sure I link you to the right one. Is it this one? This seems right. And also I really wish, I think the audience should go look up

the Filoni zone for this episode, Citadel Rescue, because there is some facial acting that's going to be happening in this clip that they will not get to see just from listening to it. There's going to be some stuff where we see the voice actor doing the acting that I really wish I could project visually through this podcast feed, and I can't do that. So, you know, all right, let me know when you're ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. Three, two, one, go. Look what I found.

O.C. Sobeck is a Fendi. We're all sitting around the writer's room with George, and we're coming up with ideas, and he creates his character, George does, called O.C. Sobeck, and we want to try to figure out what's he going to be. What are the goggles on his head? I really didn't really see in Star Wars before. He's wearing the Hondo goggles.

And we found Affindian, and I thought, well, this guy, he looks interesting. And George was all for that. We made him pretty tall, lanky. I asked the animators to give him kind of a twist. to give him kind of a twitching eye to kind of symbolize that he's stressed out when he was talking to Calducu. Had the prisoner's been captured?

Not yet, my lord. We've located their position. And my droids are moving in now. To voice Osie Sobeck asked James Arnold Taylor. I said, you know, you do that great Christopher Walken. It's spot-on unbelievable. I said, what if you did that, but not exactly like that, but use the rhythm of it

and deepen it, make it a little more gruff, and see if we could use that sense of phrasing and timing to create a kind of interesting vocal performance. My deepest respect. No! I was hoping to surprise you with good news. James did a wonderful job interpreting that direction

and creating a very kind of quirky yet malevolent villain that I think is one of the better ones who've created for the Colom Bowl. If I can't have the information, it will die with you. When it came time for the demise of Osi Sobeck and the end of the Citadel Arc, there were actually three different endings. The first one which was, and probably still is on it, to be honest, my favorite one, was off the original script in our original outline, which was that it was Tarkin that killed Osi Sobeck. After fives, shot Sobeck off of his staff and fell to the ground, and Tarkin just walked up while Sobeck pleaded for his life and said, no, no, I'm unarmed and Tarkin just bang, shot him dead. It's one of the first times that we really start to twist the republics into the foreshodding of the empire through Tarkin.

And I thought that this really said that this is the future, this type of brutal people running the republic. But when George watched the episode, he said that, and I agree, what's problematic about it is that the Jedi witnessed this, and it kind of makes them a bit thick not to realize that this is gonna be a really bad thing to have people like Tarkin in control the military. So I came up with a different ending, which is that what if Asoka saves Tarkin from being killed

in a way that's... only a way we've seen Anakin Skywalker act. So it's all kind of been a little more interrelated, and I thought it got us a lot more mileage out of the character development. Asoka has picked up Anakin's fighting style. We've seen Anakin do this with Talmaric, season two.

And, you know, it's something we kind of associate with Anakin. It's thing to will. So Tarkin's allusioned that he knows that this great insert method of Osoca's like feeding Sobeck comes from Anakin. The other is. Love their jobs, Alex. Wonder what that means.

Well, you will have to wait and see. I'm going to be honest to you. I've been a Star Wars fan for a while, so maybe I've been thinking about this more than other people. But I have to say, getting behind somebody and activating your lightsaber so it goes through them is not something I only associate with Anakin. That's the Anakin's skywalk and maneuver.

It's only Anakin does it. It seems like one of the level one lightsaber chasing you could do. I don't have to learn how to swing it. I can just stab people very easily. Just turn on. Turn on. Do kill. No, that's an Anakin maneuver.

Also, I'm not over the backwards baseball hat with the forward goggles, and I want to know what happened, and I need. Like, how does George receive this? Like, how does George receive, like, somebody showing up to the writer's room, the supervising director of the whole series? of the whole series showing up in Honda goggles

for a business meeting with the backwards baseball cap that I points out yes is George like that's the kind of commitment I want that is what I want that is the kind of dedication

I want a guy who's cool I would have he showed up with the cap was front facing when he first showed up right he was like all right time to get to work and he spun it backwards and then he puts the goggles on though he took the guy

goggles are already up there. He takes them off. He spins the cap backwards. He puts them back on. Wow. Wow. Commitment. Maybe he was wearing the goggles and then he spit all the way on. Horace Grant style. And then takes the goggles off, places on top of cap. That's what I'm feeling. Okay. Yeah. I...

Anyway, it's really funny that Filoni was like, we're finally going to start showing how the Republic turns into the empire. But then he was like, I didn't feel like doing that. So I had Asoka stab him. The Jedi wouldn't like that. The Jedi would be like, no. No. Uh-huh.

The Jedi would feel like it would showed too much, it showed the hand of Tarkin too early that, oh, this is this type of guy who would just shoot a guy. As if they don't, it's so fucked up. It's so funny. People shoot people on the show. All I watch is people shooting people. I want to say also, we do get this clip of when he kills Talmer from that Mandalorian arc. And we see the old model of Anikin, and it's, like, hard for me to look at that model now. Because his shoulders are so narrow, and his head is so big, and the proportions all just seem off.

And it's like, it's like, the scales have fallen from my eyes. Yes. Like, while we were watching this, it was like, okay, this is, yeah, okay, Clone Wars. Like, it doesn't look great, but it's fine. This now looks like monstrous to me to look at. That's awful. It's like a friend of mine's monster. Like the drip feed has like slowly infiltrated so we don't even perceive a difference that there has been changed, but when you go back, it's like just horrifying.

He looks like a kit-bashed action figure, a seven-year-old would make. Like he's taken the Anakin head from one figure set and then like some other completely unrelated to Star Wars body and has put the Anakin head on it and be like, this is my custom Anakin figure. His neck is so big as well. His neck is so big. Crazy. Yeah. So they get out. They get out.

So we kind of covered the ending, which is, you know, they have this disagreement over who gets the code. They're kind of dividing the child. And we do get Tarkin walking off being like, hey, you aren't like the other Jedi, Anakin. and Obi-Wan being like, I don't know about this guy, and Anakin being like, well, he's my friend now. We're all part of the Palpatine Bros Club.

And the other thing is that Plow covers for Asoka, and she ends up leaving with him. I love it. Yeah. So Anakin, I don't know, he hasn't let this go. He's like, hey, I want to ask you with him. But he's not moving past it.

Even though she saves the whole mission, effectively. Yeah. Multiple times. And he's like, especially with the, the, the, uh, coordinates. Yeah. And he's like, did you tell her to come on this mission? And Plow realizes that, like, there's a lot writing on this, weirdly a lot writing on this. And he's like, it seems I did.

Which is interesting because it's like, which is a non-answer. Yeah. I mean, he's saying, like, no, I didn't, but don't fuck with me on this in a sense. You know what I mean? He's saying, like, I'm going to cover for her here. And you're going to have to accept that because I'm on the fucking counsel. Master Plu Koon He has his bad moments

Like all Jedi do But I'm still a Plos bro The realist Yeah That's right I wish we had I wish I wish I mean

Obviously Sorry your Caden's there Which is very funny to me I just wish Plow was there I wish Plow was there Whenever Plow is somewhat there I wish he was there more

But he's not there What if Assoca gets a transfer? What if she's like, I'm transferring to get Plow to be my... Yeah. Of a Asoka Plow Coon mission. Changing advisors. She's got to change advisors. Which is hard because it means you have to redo some work and, like, it might push your graduation date back.

Worth it. But sometimes you've got to do it. Yeah. She's never going to get the, she's never going to be a real Jedi unless, that's right. Like, Annigan doesn't want people to graduate out of this program. Too useful. That's right. Also, sometimes.

sometimes you do also just need that plow as your second reader to be like you don't necessarily you know maybe he wouldn't be a good first reader and you both know that but it's just good to have someone to fetch to about about your first reader it happens you know yeah also like Tarkin they try to do a thing we're like ooh Tarkin's so menacing as he gets on to the airport shuttle with an honor guard two two clones who like a rifle drill thing and it's just the corny of shit And also, nobody can get on the airport shuttle bus and look like a badass. And they try, it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

But yeah, that's Citadel Rescue. Like, I think there's a, I think it's a really good arc. I think they're really watchable episodes. Yeah. It's a, like, to our points about good combat, looks great, like the action sequences rule. I think this is a really strong set of episodes. there's places where like there's not a lot to get from the text but you don't always need that there's places up which there were more in the text at all but you know that's aniken really

it's like the bar is so low for this kid to to get a pitch it really is yeah I feel like I went into it like really not expecting to have I mean, to have almost anything to say about it. I was just like, yeah, these are like the very standard adventure Star Wars arc. But I do think in just discussing it in this pod today, that there's a lot of little morsels in here to gnaw on, I think. I found a post here from 2011. Yes. From Darth Tarkas, Jedi Padawan, the Jedi Council forms.

It's called Star Wars, the Clone Wars, Season 3, Secrets, dot, dot, dot, revealed? Question mark. And this is someone who says, I'm not going to read the whole post, but he says, Swash's recent listing in the TCW general, the Clone Wars general thread, made me decide to finally use this thread idea I've had for a while. While I was on board with the majority of form users who don't see what secrets were revealed in season three, despite its subtitle at first, after giving it some thought, I actually changed my mind completely. I think almost every single episode this season showed something previously unrevealed to us about the war itself and the characters fighting for it. So here's my list. Feel free to discuss my list, and please post a list of your own.

number one clone cadets training of the clone troopers that's a secret that's been revealed they get trained number two clone trooper DNA stretching and declining clone quality all right i'm gonna give them this one i think that that's a secret that's been revealed yeah three set up for the episode ambush that's not a secret sphere of influence number four grito during the clone wars that's not a secret that grito was alive is not a secret no five corruption corruption of political officials during the clone wars that is not a secret the academy c number five assassin isoka sees the future with the force that's what she's having the force visions that's not a secret that's a new thing that happened evil plans set up for hostage crisis that's not a secret that's just the episode comes before hostage crisis episode nine hunt for zero quinlin voss during the Clone Wars. That's not a secret.

He was in that movie. I love this person being like character development. What a secret. What a secret. Ooh, it's a secret. Heroes on both sides. First look at separatist representative counsel. Secret revealed.

Pursuit of peace. Senators fighting for banking regulations and social programs during the Clone Wars. And then it's a... I'm going to see if I can paste this smiley. I don't... It's this. It's equal sign P and then a little tilda. It's on the screen, it's rendered as this.

It's pretty gross. It's rendered as this. Oh, my God. Stop it. Uh-huh. How do you want to describe this? Can someone describe what I'm looking at? Okay, imagine, you know the, okay, you know the like...

Make it bigger for you. The, like... It's animated, by the way. Great. So the modern sort of orgasm, sort of, I'm making a funny face, sort of, this is, do people use it for like news that's good or like things that are tasty? But it's like the like S face and like one eye is sort of closed and the other one is open. Imagine this one, but the mouth is open in sort of a, thank you, Natalie. Woozy face.

Yeah, woozy face. I love that face. Um, imagine the face is open as a grin, but there's like some implied drool. Oh, it's more than implied. It's, yeah. This is like, slobbering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, God, the blush on it.

Oh, I did. Yeah, it's blushing. The eyes are crossed in weird ways. Anyway, uh, Ventriss's history is a secret. All right, this next one is a real secret. Secrets revealed. Monster. Darth Tyrannus, Count Duku is planning to overthrow Darth Sidious.

That counts Secret revealed Good secret Which is of the mist Darth Mall supposedly alive I think that's a secret Overlord A planet that is

conduit and amplifier of the force For the whole universe I guess that's a secret Yeah Is we The genet don't talk about that They don't want people knowing that

That's a secret I don't think they know that This altar of mortis Asoka brainwashed into falling to the dark side and fighting Anakin and Obi-O-O-B-Wan. Not a secret. Secret, though.

There was a secret in that episode. She doesn't like being called Snips. She doesn't like being called Snips. Secrets revealed. Yeah, secrets revealed. There's this entire tier of shit content like this. So in prep for this episode, I was looking up, like, what was the name of this episode of the Avatar

where they also do a prison break thing? Just wanted to know the name. But it led me to this. I'm excited, Rob. Oh, my God. I hate the shit so much. CBR. CBR.com is something the shit.

Ten most controversial moments ranked. Uh-huh. And it's all just... Yeah, go for it. But here. Eight. Aang's tantrum at the Northern Air Temple shows a childish side

that fans have a hard time seeing in the Avatar. When Ang and his friends find solace in the Northern Air Temple, they find themselves surrounded by an innovative group of refugees from the Earth Kingdom. Aang's reaction to this group of refugees was unbefitting of the Avatar,

who was meant to stand as a representative of every nation, not just their own. Got them. Controversial moment in Avatar. Very controversial. A, every one is constantly. The child protagonist. Yeah. Being child.

Uh-huh. Saka's sexist behavior almost gets him canceled in 2022. Saka is a loud-mouthed comedian that is well-known. for sticking his foot in his mouth. Still, a bad joke here and there is nothing compared to the sexist jargon. He whips as a little sister in the very first episode of Avatar

The Last Airbender. The boomerang wielding warrior takes a bit too much pride in his masculinity until he is soundly defeated by Suki on Kiyoshi Island. This goes to show just how brilliant of a show

Atla truly was by silencing Saka's sexism within the first five episodes. You ever go to a hotel room, and it's just automatically playing episodes of Extra, the Hollywood record show? This is the exact way that the writing is in that. The Boomerang-wielding Warrior. Like, that's just about a character in a movie. I heard someone on extra say it like that.

This is five. Qatar's appropriation of the painted lady is controversial regardless of her intention. Another instance of Katara's controversial behavior can be witnessed in the episode titled The Painted Lady. I watch that episode this year. In this episode, Katara disguises herself as an ancient spirit worshipped by the inhabitants of Zhang Hui as a guardian deity. The powerful waterbender's intentions may have been pure, but appropriating a local deity is controversial regardless of the intentions. Oh, my, I feel like I'm literally reading a TMZ. article.

And also the like, wow. It's like a TMZ article meets a Tumblr post, right? Yeah, a Tumblr post written with the, with the language and the cadence of a TMZ post. Right. It's like, we need to show like, I am aware of all the problematic material in this show. But also I have to write an SEO post. Yeah. So anybody who searches for Cora or for sorry, Avatar painting.

lady this might be the top hit you know but then furthermore it's like it's just the text of the show it's like man right pretty problematic of ang to be childish huh that's not what an avatar should be and it's like yeah if only went a four-year journey to grow and mature and figure out like how he should be the avatar how he should be the avatar as a child yeah well it's Fucking dire. If I can reveal one final secret and a preview for next week, episode 22, which is one of our two episodes. Next week we're watching, or next episode, we're watching Padawan Lost, which is 21, which is fun. It's fun that it's called Padawan lost after we've already had a lightsaber lost.

What if it's the same except just a Padawan goes out? Are you about to reveal the secret of the season finale? Okay, should I not do that? The secret? I shouldn't reveal the secret. Is it a really wild secret? I mean, it better be the secret. Like, it's the season.

finale. Okay, so I shouldn't say what the secret is then. You should post it in chat under spoiler so I'm going to it so you can see it. Uh-huh, here it is. Secrets revealed.

Now I'm going to want to know. Wookie hi. Oh, my God. Can I just tell you what the phrasing is? Clearly. Allie. Blank during the Clone Wars. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We talked about the emoji. We didn't talk about the emoji being used for sexy Asage's backstory. like that's why it was for no no no no no no that's not what it was for it was for the fucking politics one yeah that's the next

one and to be fair that was all of us during that episode like we were no we were we were making a hangout faces during senators fighting for vote back the tape

and social programs during the clone wars yeah we lost our shit we lost our shit deregulation Are you kidding me? That was the best arc of the season still. I still love that shit. The season was all, like I know we're not done.

I know next episodes are the technical end of it, but again, this feels so much like the end of the season to me that, like, thinking about it as a whole, there are some dope arcs in this season. I get why people like the season, feel like this is where the Clone Wars finds itself, even though I also think there were some like real clankers. Oh, no.

How, Austin. Bro, crowson. Oh, no. What's the word I'm looking for? It's a real clanker. Podcast Podcaster Austin Walker makes controversial statement

It's a Star Wars podcast There's going to be a CBR.com article About the most controversial moments of Of a more civilized age Austin's anti-droid behavior Almost gets him canceled in 2022 Oh my god I was going to say I do agree with you

I'm looking back at the episode list of this season we had we had the Mandelor arc this season which was just bananas we had the zero arc in this season which I can't believe that was this season It's a long season, yeah. We had the supply lines was the peaceful Trandotian.

That was Jar Jar's performance art, right? Oh, that was Jar Jar's, that was Jar Jar's performance art. Toydari and stuff, yep. We have Knight Sisters. Look, some dope stuff. The highs are very good. Yeah. But there have also been moments where it's like, what are we doing here?

But that's been true of every season. I just don't think, like, I can see where people are like, wow, the show really finds itself here. But I also think the show is doing some really interesting things in the first two seasons that, like, I feel like maybe the third season hasn't been as successful I'd like bring it across. Like, I don't know that I feel like the entire assault on geonosis and up through like brain invaders. I don't know. Yeah, I think that's still the best that it's been. Yeah. I think, or I really think from the end of that.

I think that whole arc is really good. But then, like, you have to remember, then we got lightsaber lost right after that. And that episode's so rough. And, like, there's so much. I guess we get Mandelora stuff. We sit teen in an episode with season two also. That stuff's fun.

Yeah. Yeah, season two's not so bad. I feel like season, previous seasons have had way bigger lows than season three. Like, season three is. Is it zero so far? far? Zero is definitely my low, I will say. I think. There's an extended sequence at a swamp house. It's so bad. That is literally just the fucking work. That was the worst. That was the worst. Yeah. Um, that I think watching, thinking about season three as a whole, it's, it's so much

more consistent. It's so, it's a lot denser than past seasons. And it's so much more like consistent in I don't even know it's not even quality but in just like the amount of meat that they're giving us whereas in previous seasons we would go like whole like three or four episodes with like such so

little to like really cling on to and dive deep in like we were really in morsel territory in season one in season two where like there was just some just nonsense episodes that like had very like very little staying power in my mind

compared to where we are now where like every episode is memorable at this point like there's like even mortis which I'm not in love with is worth talking about for three hours yeah it's like it's not it's at least interesting it's at the very least we talked about for three hours in the first two seasons which often wasn't worth talking about for three hours even though we did it Yeah, because we're us. I think from the first,

I think some of the stuff with malevolence is like good. I think in some ways the military sci-fi shit that they're doing in the first season tends to work really well. Like when it's like the Clone Wars. See, I think that just hits better for you. It doesn't hit for me as much. It hits for me when it's the Geonosis, the Second Battle of Geonosis, but I don't think we needed three episodes of malevolence.

No, no, but I do like, but I do like Anakin being this like flood commander right where it's like where are you guys better at this um you know i think there's you know blue show well i just like nuvo vindi you just like new bo vinti i mean it's all very for me it's all very easy to play i like that we watched it i'm not i'm not saying people should skip to season three no definitely at all i'm 100% yeah watch those episodes like i how often do we reference luminaura and and assage fighting in in the cloak of darkness yeah how often do we do we reference New of Vindy, how often do we reference the Jabo Hood, the Lermins,

and all that stuff is important for what the show is doing. But I don't think that like, I don't think I think in retrospect, I just think I'm liking watching these more beat by beat than I was watching. Well, it's also a much more competent show. Like, for real.

Yeah. I think that's what I was looking for. Yeah. Like, you compare this to where they started with like when Yoda's on King Ketunka's planet, and that's It's like this really crude, shittily animated and lit. Like, it's really rough, right?

It's like, like, right? Like, it looks like what would have been mid-production stuff by the standard they're hitting now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Just looking, like, remember the Ryloth arc? Yeah, I do.

Remember that? Yeah. I do. And Cloak of Darkness is great. Like. Oh, I was, I was, remembering the Ryloth arc not fondly. Oh, I mean, look, we've learned that we shouldn't be racist about our allies.

We've learned that, you know, insurgencies sometimes have difficult relationships with their allies. It's all good. Morsels, morsels. All right, we should end this episode, probably. We're really bemoat or not bemoaning. Yeah. We are also promoting, but. So, let's see. I guess next time in two weeks we're going to be discussing the end of the season and getting to the last of those secrets of the Clone Wars.

Also, Boba's wrapped, right? We need to record our Patreon episode on Book of Boba. Is it wrapped? No, I thought it's only, it's ending in the middle of February. we do have it's seven episodes we also have to do Jedi Lost yeah yeah there's two more I guess it's January 26th the fifth episode came out two more episodes are coming out okay so yeah mid-February it'll end

yep so I guess we will which one of those are we hitting first I can do either I haven't watched any Boba yet Jedi Lost is shorter than Boba yeah I'm almost done that I kind of put it on pause but um yeah play it by ear i guess within the next month we will be doing both of the within the next five weeks we'll be doing recording both of those so uh and then of course later this month we'll be doing well in in February we'll be doing uh our regular Q&A so if you'd like to hear that or just want to support the show you can do that at patreon.com slash civilized uh until next time

please rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice and uh just remember remember if you're part of like the palpatine secret friend society maybe don't blab it quite so much like don't be like hey are you also a member of the palpatine secret friend society are you are you part of the doctor are you part of the darth plagus appreciation uh society like you can't don't put that on the streets that's for you and the chancellor hmm did tarkin do it perfectly though because like to okay sorry we're ending this episode but to be like, I don't trust the Jedi. And then to be like, you know how the Jedi should be in power anymore?

And then to be like, I know who you should talk to. I have ins with Palpatine. Is he like trying to bring Anikin in? Oh, that's a really good, like, he doesn't realize that he's already been recruited, but he sees the potential that Palpatine sees. Yeah, wow. Shout out. I underestimate it.

Tarki gets back to Palpatine's office. Found this really impressive Jedi. Hannigan Skywalker and Palpatine's just like You don't think he's kind of a meathead? Like, tournaments of talking into it, talking Palpatine into it? Like, no, no, I see what you've been saying, but like, kids dumb as a bag of hammers. Like, maybe we should, like, try to recruit a smarter Jedi, like,

Duku. Like, I'm thinking more Duku type Jedi, right? Hmm. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm gonna Weak Awee

Aux Awee Aik A-G-G-G-A-N-A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Thank you.