A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 37: Brothers, Revenge, and Revival (Clone Wars 87-89)

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

With today's episode, we bring The Clone Wars Season 4 to an end and kick Season 5 off with, if not a bang, then at least the death of a somewhat major Jedi. Our Favorite Zabrak, Savage Opress (ugh) is back! And this time, he's got a brother turned partner in crime turned abusive boss. While these eps do have some low lows, they also have a few extremely high highs: A diner, a warehouse worker who steals our heart, an Obi-Wan/Ventress flirt-a-thon, and... finally... at least some of our hearts melting for a fan favorite character we have really hated up until now. NEXT TIME: Episodes 91- 94 ("A War on Two Fronts," "Front Runners," "The Soft War," and "Tipping Points") You can support the show and gain access to a monthly Q&A cast by going to patreon.com/civilized Show Notes Deaths: Morley the Disney Snake, Too-Loyal Pirate Sabo, Jedi Master Adi Gallia   Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)  

Let us return once more to a more civilized age of Clone Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zakeney, joined by Ali Akampura, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. Phase three of Mother Talzin's master plan unfolds here with the final two episodes of season four and the first episode of season five in which Savajo Press seeks out his brother, Darth Mall. I'm still not sure. Is that like metaphorical brother, like literal brother? Because he choked out his other brother, his real brother.

His other, yeah. Yeah, so I'm just like, is a brother in the clone sense or brother in the like, this is my brother. This is my brother, Daryl, my other brother, Daryl. He says brother enough like he's compensating for something, right? Like, he's never like, what's up, ball? It's always, hey, brother. Yeah.

Yeah. Didn't Talzin say something about like there was one of, one you were born or something like when she introduces him to the quest she's always talking shit yeah she says a lot of stuff yeah she does she does be talking a lot anyway savagra prism got to seek out Darth mall for um well he's just got to find him okay uh and once he finds him it reignites the blood feud between mall and obi one the former seething over his defeat and the whole getting cut in half thing and the latter knowing that well mall's going to be seething over that defeat and the whole

getting cut in half thing. And it's just going to come down to it between them. Step one of Mall's plan, however, appears to be borrowing a page from Pre-Visla's insurgency handbook. Do a bunch of rip-and-runs all over the galaxy in order to lay the groundwork for

yet again, something. Look, I'll be honest. I don't think there's a plan here. I don't think, I think in Star Wars at this point, a lot of people are confusing privately held information with foresight and design like the way this last episode ends with like sort of a knowing smirk from a character that like gives nothing but knowing smirks it's like you didn't plan any of this either

there's a lot of people here who'll be like everything is as i foretold fuck off no it is that ain't true he can't claim this he cannot no well in some ways this is the most honest character there is he is literally stumbling through the galaxy following a pendant a glowy pendant around and that's all it is that's all it is with him and and he doesn't pretend he has a big plan his whole plan is just i'm looking for my bro and there's something i think noble and straightforward in that this is this like what like this whole arc something that has happened is i think we got a little bit of the the um boba fat issue with mall where it's like, oh man, Maul is so special.

And at this point I realized, when Maul re-enters the story here, I think I'm more invested in Savage. I'm like, what'd this guy do? He just got his ass kicked by a junior Jedi. Okay, but I think you start to get a little bit of a taste by the third one, or the third of these episodes, where there's something I'm interested in, which is that Maul still speaks in Sith terminology

when he starts talking about, like, they're always to a master and apprentice. and him being, and I will say that this is, this is, my interest might be colored by one scene of rebels I saw like three years ago that was like kick ass, but the mall is one more person caught up in all of this and discarded, and that to me is interesting. That like mall was Sidious's apprentice and assassin, and he got cut in half, but not killed, and, you know, Palpatine didn't go looking for him. Palpatine didn't help him out. He's just one more dude caught up in the fucking

chosen one mythos. And that to me, and his resentment of that is, I hope, gets further developed in these episodes. Because when I saw the thing that I saw from Rebels, which I guess I was just spoiled that, like, we're going to get Maul in Rebels at some point. I don't know how much. I don't, like, truly the scene I saw in Rebels, I would never have guessed it was in Rebels. It seems like a completely standalone thing. That's how little I know about Rebels. But that sequence makes me so curious about it, and I'm seeing them start to like put together a little bit of the thing there of like, here is a person who was supposed to be where Duku is, and he is not there. He was trained by the greatest living Sith master

and then discarded, even though he did a pretty good job. He killed Kwaigon Jin, you know, like he killed a Jedi master. That's a 1v1. If you were playing Valerant, That's a one-v-one you take. If you can kill Quagong Jin for a Darth-Mall, that's a even, that's a more than an even trade. Your RP is going up. It's going up. Exactly. Exactly.

So that stuff was an interesting tease, but I think you're right also that so far, the groundwork they've laid, Savage is the interesting one for this show at this point, right? Well, and Savage is Clancy Brown. That does help. It does help that Clancy Brown is here. It's a little, like, I will admit, there's a, there's a bit. bit of an unfair comparison happening here, which is one of these characters is voiced by like an all-time character actor, especially in like really heightened sci-fi and fantasy shit like this and like can do a lot with like a little material. It's not important. So can I say one other all-time character actor who showed up in this trio of episodes for the first time and we'll be getting some more of him is there is a single line that is not spoken by the original voice actor of Palpatine. I noticed that.

Did you? Ian McDarwood? He died during the production of this season. And so he got replaced with Tim Curry. Oh. Yeah, character, actor, extraordinaire. And so there was one line in this episode where they needed a re-recording. It's when he says, God, what's he said?

It's not sorry, it's not this episode. It's the third of these episodes. It's in the third episode, and it's like he's not on screen, right? He's like, he's like, literally turned his back and they had to 80, yeah, it's all ADR because it's all, it's all animation, obviously. Right. But yeah, it's, it's, in the episode revival, um, uh, what is the line? It is, they're just petty crooks, is what he says of the Zabrak brothers, um, or maybe he says it of the pirates. I don't remember. And that's Tim Curry. Hmm. Yeah. I noticed a difference in like, in, in pitch. but to me it sounded like in like a regular movie

oh this was the ADR like this was the ADR so I was kind of like oh that's kind of odd just like getting slipped in here and feeling like a little bit off but I didn't realize as a whole that it was one

that it was another actor another person yeah so we're going to get one more full episode with him I think I think the third episode of the season has McDermid who's fantastic sorry I'm Roy can't be It can't be McDermid, right?

Why? You said the actor died? Yes, he dies during this. Well, Ian McDerm is still alive. Oh, okay. Well, then it's not him. It's... I was about to be like, R.I.P. Ian McDermid.

Sorry, it's Ian Abercrombie, is his name. Oh, okay. It's another different British Ian. Ian Abercrombie is the one who died in 2012 during the production of the fifth season. I should have looked at my notes. So, yeah, he's been in a bunch of these episodes. And then, yeah, the third episode of season five will be his last one, at which point Tim Curry will take over, but will not be the last Palpatine that we get. Oh.

There will be another palpeteen. I think Rebels has a different Palpatine, or maybe even last season of Clone Wars. I fully support new people. Like, try and, like, find out different takes on character in Star Wars. It's fun. You don't think that there should just be a sort of CG corpse rendered forever? uh no i don't think there should be like a group of like audio stems you start snapping back together and like pitch changing to be like you know is this this sounds like he's angry right

like yeah that sounds bad to you we no i think we could probably just you know i feel like there's a sufficient supply of voice actors in the world actors are good at acting when when they're good at acting is what i think absolutely true absolutely sure so let us them do the damn thing. Natalie's showing off that showbiz savvy. She's picked up at half mermaid. You know, when actors are good at acting, they're pretty good at acting. It's true.

They're pretty fucking good. It's amazing. It's like, it's movie magic, baby. It really blows you away. Speaking of movie magic, they do a little trick. They do a little trick at the beginning of this episode. The very, very beginning. No one else

This episode being brothers Brothers Yeah The title card Is a different color Yeah Yeah it's red I was gonna ask about that

Yeah Is that because Sith time I think it's because it's Sith time I think it's because Darth Mall is here baby But only for this one I bet they do it again in the future Right They do it for part two

I think they did for part two as well right I have to go to the You have to go to the tape Yeah I'm not 100% sure Okay, so the other part is this opens with, like, Duku following up with the, following up, like, even though the witches of Daph, the Knights Sisters of Daphir have been slaughtered, uh, Duky knows there's unfinished business out there. He knows that Savage is still out there.

Um, but that's... Does I feel like Duku's settling his accounts a little bit? Where he's like, I have too many fucking loose ends. And for like, it feels a lot like it's that time. of the year where you realize you have three straight weekends with like nothing scheduled you're like oh shit oh shit I can like get everything fixed like I'm back on so much shit I can catch up finally I can just like put my time together I have to clean my room I got to like take the car and to get service and he except for him he's like to kill off the night sisters gotta find that savage motherfucker kill him but tragically like further down the list is figure out what Sidious his whole part is he's never quite gets to that one like I need to hmm he'll get that don't worry about it In the meantime, we find that we get another tantalizing glimpse of diner culture in Star Wars, where a press has been searching the galaxy for clues as to where mall could be. And one of the places he's done this is at this diner where he begins tracing.

he notices he's got this like pendant that is like kind of a dousing rod for where the fuck is Darth Mall and the pendant is like hey what about this dirt

and he follows the dirt back to a very dirty spaceship a junker that is recently visited the planet Lotho Minor and he holds the dump truck driver hostage and forces him to take him to this planet

and then right after he flies off in the dump truck this is the part I thought this was on Choruson. It turns out it's not this scene is not on Corson. It's on a planet called Stobar but happening A truck stop planet Yeah

happening by I guess to pick up pork rinds and a slurpy are Anakin and Asoka who walk into the diner immediately after like Ball was basically holding it up. Yeah, Savage literally beats the shit out of everybody inside and there's a little bit more hit. He chokes out a waitress. And an interesting thing is, I think the cop, the cop droids

have literally just landed. And then it's weird because it's like Anakin and Asoka just land in their like Jedi fighters like they're not even like in it's like they're with clones they're not like

you know what I mean they're not like with a clone deployment that's like pull over we need to use the bathroom you know what I mean like it's literally just they're on their way back that I could use a burger

you want to get a burger I mean very identifiable but what's going on Anakin was like I'm not going back to Corrosan and just getting government rations You're right.

And I was like, in a kid, I don't know more about that. Talk more, yeah, say more. Say more about how bad the Jedi food is. Talk about how much you love the diner food. This is what I want to hear. Here's the more thing I have to say is I have a link here for a deleted scene. Because when we start this scene, so in the actual episode, this sequence begins with Savage in the diner, like immediately yelling at somebody, right? I really wound this twice to be like, is there a context to why he's choking this woman?

And let me tell you, Allie, there is. It's not necessarily... Good. Great. But I'll post this here. We'll do a countdown on this one. But literally, the scene opens, the scene as it is in the episode, opens with him choking a waitress and lifting her. Not forced choking, hand choking. Someone looks over and goes, he's choking her and a bunch of people run away. And then he does a little scoot out the back door. It's very funny. Anyway, are you ready to count me at 2009

Savage of the Diner in this deleted scenes compilation? Yeah. Okay. Three, two, one, go. There you go. Diner. Diner time.

Excellent looking diner, by the way. Yeah. This is clearly an earlier version that doesn't have all the signage yet. A lot of placeholder lighting. stuff. A little robo waitress comes up. Can I get you something? Can I get you something?

No. Honey, why don't you go into the back? I've got this one. Never seen you in here. Where are you headed? Well, can I get you something, honey? Ooh, that looks valuable. Touches the pendant He says

It is All right, there we go That's the context This is just the regular scene now, right? Yeah, I think so Oh, we go, call the authority Yep Oh, right

Oh, we didn't get the We didn't get the... No, we got that, we got the... We did, okay. Okay, I don't know. You know what? We should have had that scene. We should have had it.

Because one, I think it's a better job of establishing what this place is. Yep. As like a little, like, truck stop diner in the southern galaxy. I'm on Savage's the side here. Like, give me a minute. This is a big venue. That's what he was. She touched the dang pendant.

What do you do it? She grabbed hold of it. She grabbed hold of it. It was broadcasting. It was projecting a hologram. That was foul. That was foul. I'll say that.

That's like if someone took your phone out your hand. Yeah, like that. I'm literally... Just the iPhone 13? Like, what? But the first robo waitress, like, those diner menus are like 10 pages long. Yes. You got to decide first, am I doing all day breakfast?

Exactly. This is exactly it. Like, you know that's a big choice for Savage, too. You know he's watching his carbs. And he's trying to think, yeah. He's like, how do I achieve ketosis in this menu? Exactly. Oh, it's very funny to me.

Yeah, but that would have been good contacts to have. Yeah. Also, it's like, by the time Anakin and Asoka show up and they're just, you know, like, hmm, fries and I just stop for, you know, a little gnaw. One of the workers there goes like, oh, this happens here all the time. Like, I'm like, you got waitresses getting choked out all the time. Like, what is... All the time.

That is not... Are y'all okay? Like, what's going on here? I'm a little concerned. I don't trust these cop droids at all. I do not trust the cop droids. We got under control, sir, to the Jedi, which is also interesting. Normally, you would imagine the automated cops would be like,

oh, a Jedi is here. I defer to the Jedi, not these ones. See, this is what happens when you write your episode of The Clone Wars right after seeing my cousin Vinnie. and you're just like, it's a whole different world down there and like the cops answer to themselves like everyone's real proud of their grits and you're just big city Jedi coming down there

it is I do appreciate how fast though the the headline cook the manager like comes out of there with the frying pan like oh not this shit again yeah he's ready to go he's ready to protect his people That's right.

They keep setting something up in this arc, which is like how unfamiliar people in this part of the galaxy are with Jedi. Like they keep seeing Savage and Maul and being like, they were Jedi with red lightsabers. I guess y'all don't really act like that, but... Well, they never heard of SIF. Right, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, really calling attention to the fact that, like, the Jedi is actually kind of cool. The Jedi, when we see them, they're obsessively. with this idea of like darkness or like sit like they're very aware that there's this history and there's this potential they've been very successful beyond the like walls of the Jedi temple at like convincing people that none of this ever happened right where it's just like you see someone let's say that's a Jedi people with force powers that's a Jedi yep never and always been that way never will be any different and sometimes a Jedi kill somebody and you know what I a lot of the times we have we have have transparent

into why a Jedi is fighting somebody but outsiders who are watching on do not and so when like the the mall brothers are like killing people in a warehouse what the fuck's the warehouse supervisor gonna think I guess the Jedi had a guy to kill you know I love the fucking warehouse

we'll get to him but I'll get to him he's my fave I again I do I also love this junk pilot and his his like you described it as a dumpster spaceship that is exactly how I described it in my notes it's so funny to me that it is just like a dumpster with thrusters on it?

Yes, yes. It is shaped like the big dumpster outside your apartment building that just flies around. Yep. And so, yeah, like, Moll hijacks this thing, it makes him go back to this planet.

And I will say, like, I just don't find the... Like, I was disappointed and we moved away from the dynamism and the sense of, like, placeness and population that exists with the, like, diner

and move to a very Star Wars, like, and now we're on the garbage planet. And, like, it's not, like, it's not badly real, like, the fact that, like, it rains, like, pure acid there and everything. It's all, you know, it's all fun. But it is, it's very much just watching, much of this episode is going to be watching Mall navigate just, like, piles of trash. Yeah. Navigating, like, piles of trash. He goes on a funny little quest.

With a funny little sidekick. Oh, he does have a sidekick. Funny little. What's this guy's name? Do we have a name for this guy? He's an Anaconda, Morley. Morley. But I will say also, this is an episode

where don't get attached to these little bit characters because I was, I like the junk pilot. Junk Pilot was tossed out of the dumpster ship at about a thousand feet. I don't think he made it. And Morley is a fucking, the only way I can describe this is like, this is a Disney-ass,

this is straight out of the jungle book like it's that it is in fact it is the jungle from the jungle yeah it is doing his like comical slither and like hey how's it going he's very funny seeing this character archetype in star wars of all places and dealing with such a self-serious character as clancy brown savage you know yeah i don't mind it yeah uh but yeah morally morally the snake has two pieces of information. One, like he indicates he knows something about there being another resident of this planet, but two indicates that, like, this is a very hazardous planet because by its very nature and just sort of being this neglected, it has turned, it is turned into a world where

the robots have gone feral. Yeah, there's just big, like, they're like A-T-A-T style four-legged one. walkers that are just eating huge piles of junk as, like, lava pours out? Is the implication they're, like, incinerator droids that have gone, like, out of control? So now, like, the thing that where you would insert the trash to burn is, by the way, way, way more common than you think. A huge amount of power we get around here, burn to trash. Burn trash. Not a good thing, but, like, what are you going to do with it?

Anyway, like, these things sort of roam landscape, like dragons, with these, like, yeah, fucking, incinerator jaws, uh, just like billowing smoke and fire. Uh, it's cool. I couldn't tell if they were, if they had gone, if they, is, are they supposed to do this? Is the idea to just drop the trash off and the fucking incinerator droids will eat it eventually or is it? This felt like near automata shit. It does feel like the purpose has been perverted. Or like, or like, or if not perverted, like, at least now these things have adopted like a degree of like animalistic agency where it's like, right, right. Right. Not only in my program to destroy the trash, but now I love eating the trash and, like, making my little layer here. Yeah. And then you meet the other near automatic guys.

You meet little robot guys who are scavengers, I guess. They're like sort of like what if javas had cyborg arms? Exactly. That's what I was going to say. Is that right? They're just, they don't, I mean, I imagine that it was. so hard like contextualizing this planet of like how are they how are how are these people like how do they treat people like how often do people come to the planet is it just that people

drop shit off and they leave or like are there people who tend to the planet and are these the people that tend to the planet um but yeah they wanted to fuck up mall who if i was a funny little guy. We're all doing it, by the way. Yeah, it's Savage. I know. God damn it. Who wanted to fuck up Savage, and if

I were a funny little guy, I would simply not fuck with Savasas. He's big. Even without the lightsaber, I would just be like, no, I'm good. Yeah. What are they going to get from him?

He doesn't have anything they need. Yeah, he's also like, I guess he has dependent. Maybe that just like is screaming hot commodity to everyone. They're all dependent. points here, though. Like, it's not like a dependent... Yeah, but they don't know. I mean? I mean, it's scrapped. Maybe it's just scrapped.

Yeah. It's like that dude who accused Aaron Donald from the Rams of being the shit out of him in a bar fight, but like, turns out Aaron Donald was just trying to peel him off the pavement after he got his ass kicked by someone else. But like, it's like, of course you wouldn't challenge that guy to a bar fight. Are you kidding?

No! Like, obviously you're, like, asked and answered. You did not need to, like, you did not need to like, do this heat check. But These little junk guys are like, you know, if it's in our territory, we go for it. I respect the ambition. I will say that. I do.

Yeah. Yeah. They should have waited for the acid, the acid rain. Maybe I'd have had an advantage then. Yeah, exactly. Do you respect Morley's initiative? No. I have no respect for Morley.

Is he trying to get a meal? Negative anxiety. Yeah, he's trying to chow down. He betrayed. He's no honor. Yeah, epic anime betrayals You'd love to see Is it a betrayal or is he loyal to Maul

And the food that Maul gives him Yeah You know? See? Morley's never betrayed anybody I just don't like his vibes His vibes are off I'm not you're not wrong

He leads Savaz to this like The brain starts Coincidentally with the right Perfect possible time For Morley to lead Savage to a little Garbage Shack And then after Savage starts, like, throwing things around and breaking things,

it becomes clear that there's, like, a hole down below the surface. And the pendant kind of glows briefly one more time. And then Savage... Oh, no, I guess... Morley hits the... Yeah, Morley hits the trap door. Open the shoot's a trap door, that's what it is. Yeah, it's like...

It's just one step above painting a tunnel on a wall. It is. The anvil is just outside That was the backup in case you got out of the You got chased out the answer to form Yeah, then he hit the anvil Just get on this Acme spaceship And it will take you to the person you're looking for

Speaking of bad vibes Speaking of rancid vibes Mall slides down the little shoot into the... Did it again, Zavash. God damn it! This is Moll's power. We're all like, oh, we don't care about Moll yet, but Moll has... And I love Sajvaj.

I love Savs so much. Why is Moll infecting me? He's infecting you, yeah. So Svage slides down the funny little shoot and ends up in this, like, dark, dang, webby underworld. It's a she-lob layer, for sure. It is. It is.

But also, I did get, like, strong vibes, and, like, especially when we get the revelation of what's going on here, but it reminded me a lot of toy story, I think, one, right, where it's, like, the little shithead neighbor kid has these scary toys that all the toys are scared of because they're, like, monsters. But they're actually, they've been sort of re-grafting themselves, was back together after the neighbor kid like mutilates them and destroys them.

And so like the thing that jumps out of my mind is like the baby head on the like truck truck chassis or whatever. That's kind of what's going on here, which is that like we're seeing, we get this impression like an insectoid monster. And as a press like for just deeper and deeper into the nest, he eventually finds small corners him kind of accidentally like Maul's got no fight in him at this point he's dangerous but he doesn't actually have a fight in him

and he's completely like kind of unstuck in time he doesn't seem to know exactly when it is he doesn't know exactly who he is he's like both scared and angry and like a lot of what he's saying is it's a really effective scene honestly we see this character who last we saw him

was like utterly silent and like utterly capable. And now we find him, you know, kind of haunted and sort of trapped in like the theater of the mind while also wearing this like grafted together body that's turned on kind of a scorpion body to sort of replace his lost legs. I think I think that I really like that they did, you know, I think it's pretty clear pretty quickly that it's small and not like a big gross robot spider uh but the first time they show the spider in the back of the body in the background it's so quick and and the background detail like oh okay he's in a creepy little place with evil big spiders and and i like that they let that breathe for just a second and like let you just think okay this is just this is this type of place now and then the reveal that it is

a deeply traumatized mall who morally is kind of like using as a pro like as a weapon effectively to kill travelers who get too close so he can feast on them is an interesting is an interesting development why did he have to make the spider's ass part of the of the legs

balance take ass he just felt like he needed one he'd missed his own okay that's fair I'll buy that one do we think he built it did he say he built it his own body

I believe he did I think it's hard well they don't really explain like so he's cut in half on Nabu yeah now he's here now that all happened

did he drag himself here like did he drag himself and then sort of graft himself back together did he like maybe maybe okay here's my theory he fell down that shoot maybe that shoot is connected to a trash

shoot. That's easy to understand. The trash got picked up on Nabu and taken to the junk planet and he was still in there and then he got dumped out like a little discarded piece of trash onto the trash planet

and then Morley found him and Morley nursed him to the underground and maybe Maul before he started really losing it he made his legs This is correct This is right

This is I believe this is correct Yeah It sounds like a hundred percent Yeah he On the way down the shaft The reactor shaft He used the force to grab onto an air vent And that that guided him to a trash container

And that's what brought him here So yeah he nailed it Wow Look at that That's from Star Wars Absolutely everything you need to know That was the other name for our podcast.

It was taken, so. Yeah, it was taken from those books, so we didn't, you know. But yeah, Rob, he's completely, you know, having been cut in half and then discarded in this way, and presumably also having been, we haven't seen what Maul, where Maul came from, but we know that he was, he was Palpatine's apprentice. We know that he came up through that Zabrak system on Dathamere and all that shit. He presumably got the same treatment that Savage did or something similar in terms of the Dathamarian magic, the Knight's Sister magic. And, you know, having all that happened and then being thrown away seems to have produced a really, really rough sense of being trapped at that moment of failure, right?

Because it isn't just that he got killed. It's that he failed to do the thing he was supposed to do. and then got left there. And I think that that's, you know, I think that's a way to reintroduce this character. You know, you end up walking some certain lines in terms of the depiction of, you know, trauma and mental illness. And especially in terms of like how that gets fixed,

which we'll get to, fixed, which we'll get to. But it's, it's a dramatic reveal. I'll give them that. Also, his head spikes are big. Yeah, his, they seem to have, grown a lot. Yeah, horrors. Yeah, it was just...

Yes, you're right. That's a good point. That is true. I think part of, like, my favorite part of the way that he speaks here is that you can, like, still hear some of the Sith training. Like, it echoed what Duku was saying Savaz, back when he was being trained in terms of, like, I have to remember that I'm a failure. I have to remember that I'm strong. And, like, damn, he was going through it.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, it feels like someone who did not have the lexicon or like the skill set to deal with failing in this way. And like the only, do you know what I mean? The only thing he had was the Sith ideology, which does not, like, on one hand, it kept him alive. The rage that he felt and the, the anger and desire for revenge is what he believes kept him alive and probably did. That's how the force, I guess, worked for him. but at the same time, like, did not do good things to him in terms of his. And also, for someone who, the said ideology is all about being strong, right?

And so, and he is not strong in this moment. And so there's almost a contradiction of forms, right? Because on one hand, he has exhibited a great deal of strength in simply surviving. But he is not the pinnacle of the Sith warrior that he once was. And there's something there. There's something there that I think works for me. There's also, like, he starts doing like a nursery rhyme or something, which sound very much like he was talking about the history of the Sith. I made the mistake of not writing it down, but when he was like, we have to remember we were fallen, but once great or whatever.

Right, right, right. Talk. Say, yeah, say more. Please. Please, I'm begging you. And to that theme of, like, horror at defeat, horror at the indignity of weakness. Oppress is enraged to see Maul in this condition, and when Morley shows up comically smacking his lips, I'm here for my treat or whatever. Like, it isn't just that Morley betrayed him.

It is that, like, Morley was aware of Maul being down here and, like, left him in this condition and oppressed, like, just grabs the guy again, like, very cartoonishly chokes him out. To death. To death. staff. It is a, like,

this is a, who framed Roger Rabbit murder scene that we're getting here. We're going to see a funny little

cartoon character violently killed. I think the, I'm so glad that y'all are talking about mall in this like,

more, like, taking him much more seriously than I think I did when I first, I think maybe more,

like tainted my view of this episode because I just felt like we were in such a cartoonish place by the time that I got to Mall I was like okay and now he's the fucking Joker like what am I supposed to do with this like he's he

I mean Maal or Savage literally describes him as damaged in like the next episode and I was dying laughing because I was like why are we here like why are we in the rally riddles

and to tattooed damaged across his case. Like, I swear to God, I was, I was, I was, I was losing my mind. I was like, why is, like, I think that he is extremely cartoonish and over the top in a way we have not gotten many characters at all. You know, I think one of the things that marks most of our villains has been a sort of, a sort of restraint, you know, their Joker mode is boiling under the server. surface, right? She was constantly needing to be the Supreme Chancellor. Duke who has this nobility, this air of nobility. Ventress is very, you know, contained, containing who she is at all times.

The only other one is like Nouveau-Vindy. But, Newvo Vindy is the last time we've had someone like this. You're right. Yeah, yeah. And like, maybe some other throwaway villain that we're forgetting about. No, because I'm thinking of the Spider-Man. The Spider-Man is sort of like this. Who's the Spider-Man? The guy who's like a big tarant-o-oh. Oh, the Tarant. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, admiral. Awesome.

Trench. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I think it's Trench, but yeah, it's basically tarantula. Also, Allie, I didn't find the exact bit, but I did find in my notes that he does, Mall does literally say through victory, my chains are broken, which is, which is the, the set of the coat. Like quite literally is. That fucking owns, though.

Shit. God damn it. No wonder they lost Anakin to the Sith. Good God. It's so God. It's, it is. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The force shall set me free. So, like, yeah, the huh? Let's do it. You went up against the liberationist ideology with there is no attachment, so just accept a lot.

Fuck off. What are you doing? You're going to lose that. You're going to lose it. So, it is, like, I'm not going to lie, Natalie. Like, there's a reason I think we skipped over a good portion of the middle this episode without too much detail. Like, it is a very cartoonish episode.

Like, I don't, like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say, like, this is one of the stronger ones. There's some beats I like, but, and honestly, you know, we'll get into this more. I'm not entirely sure I'm sold yet on the direction they're taking mall at this point, like what he's bringing to the story. But if we're sort of wrapped on, there's one less thing we should touch on here because it sets up sort of the next two episodes, which is that the word comes back. to the Jedi Council that

that Maul is out there again Kenobi is convinced that he's going to have to hunt him down and the counselor aware that it might not be a good idea for Kenobi to like basically take a sabbatical from the war

and the Jedi Council business to go wage this vendetta but at the same time they kind of concede that it's very clear he has to do this uh this is like this is his quest and i think it's kind of a cool like this is an example of them also being a knightly order right where it is yeah they they kind of do have to just accept oh his his his quest has come and so we can't really like pragmatically this is not the time to do this and this is probably not the way to go about this but we can't tell obi one

not to just light out in pursuit of this vendetta. We got to at least give him the wiggle. We got to give him, we got to kind of, let's give him a week where he doesn't have to go fight a war. We're going to not give him any other assignments. And if he goes and deals with it, he goes and deals with it. And we see the other end of that at the very end of this arc where it's like, but also there is a war going on. Yeah. And there's only so much time that we can give you.

Go ahead. It was really interesting to me, though, because, like, we really see how the force works. because everybody has like a premonition. Like, Anagan is barely in this arc, but we still have him being like, I've sensed a great disturbance because Maul is around. But Maul's been around for like two years. So is it just... Savage?

God. No, no, no. I mean Maul. Because Maul has been alive as a little spider guy this whole time. And Yota wasn't like, oh, my God, a great enemy, you know, this whole time. But it's like the dragon has left the cave, right? And he hasn't. There is something else, which is he hasn't found that.

that sharp point that reunites his mind or whatever, which is revenge, right? Right. But, like, they're having these premonitions while Savage is getting to the planet. Like, this isn't happening while Talzin is doing, like, the ritual or whatever. So, like, what is it about the force that's like, oh, this is a problem now? Like, why is the alarm ringing right now? And is it just because these two people are meeting? I think, I think that's it.

It's like, Savage is the key to unlock, to unleash mall once. again and as long as Mal is without Savage Mal doesn't make it off the planet ever like he is completely lost so I think it's like Savage's proximity to Mal

as he gets closer and closer the in the similar I think it's like similar to the way that the talism and compass is kind of operating it's like there's like it that grows in like power and and, you know, LEDs as Savage gets closer to Mall.

And I think, to me, that's, like, representative of, like, kind of some force shit. But I think the most... Well, you get it from the other side, too, with Ventress, right? Ventress feels, but feels the Savage side of it. Oh, yes. Because she says it's someone from her past, which is Savage, not Mall. Right. And so she feels the kind of tremor in the force that direction while she's out getting shots with

lots razi which i love to see love to see god bless god bless the girls um close i gotta say it they were pretty close it was pretty cute a specific leaded she deserves it you know they were truly speaking in confidence that's right um but it was interesting that at the very end of of this first episode that it this was like one of the rare times that i felt like Yoda actually got some insight from meditation. He came out of meditation. It was like, Moll's back. Moll is back. Like, they

didn't know that Moll was back, but Yoda was like, Moll is back. Moll is coming back. And O'B.1's like, that's I cut him in half. Don't really think you can come back by that. And Yodda's like, no, no, no. Moll's back. You did cut him in half. And so you got to imagine the hate he has on. Yeah, exactly.

to be here. Which speaks to maybe how Palpatine does it, which is Palpatine is just always like cloak mode, right? Like always expending some force energy to keep people from sensing his shit because that doesn't get sensed. But Maul talking to someone for the first time in 12 years or whatever, immediately the bleeps go out. Like everybody in the fucking galaxy who is force attuned is like, oh, okay, mall's up. Maybe explains that whole, like, that Palpatine, why is Palpatine, like, placing all these baths? Because he can only do, he can only do be the guy hitting the first domino in the meme. Because once it hits, like, the final dominoes, it, like, crosses, like, now the possibilities are resolving into outcomes.

And he, all he can really do without, like, kind of raising flags is butterfly effect certain things into possibility. and then hope that they like skew into probability that'll favor him. That's fun. Maybe, I mean, this is kind of jumping ahead. This is jumping head. We'll wait.

All wait. So at the start of the next episode, Revenge, we find that Moll and Oppressive have headed back to death in Mere where Mother Towson or Mother Towson's astralic-projected ghost or just she's hanging out but she ghosted on the night's, look, I don't know

what's going on, okay? Like, she kind of materializes and she, Darth Vader's mall back together, but, like, makes it night witchy, knight-sistery. Like, she builds him fucking minotar legs that are imbued with magic

so that he... She has lava power? She could just make lava with her mind to attack. legs to this guy? The giant Sith ain't shit. They don't do this stuff. Mother Towson could rule the world if she wanted. Also, when she's like pulling dark smoke out of his mind, like, let me go to the green

spa. I'm desperate. I'm desperate. Please get the dark smoke out of the brain. It's fucking therapy right there. If only it were like this. That'd be so lit. And yeah, mall is just, until this.

happens. Like, this is the moment where Wall regains some sort of, you know, control over what his thoughts and words are. Or further, I guess, again, when he first was like, oh, revenge is the thing that I want. That helped. And then new leg time, which again, goes into all the Star Wars stuff around like a whole body being more, you know, in touch with itself than a mechanoid one. And this is still a mechanoid, but it's still, it's like humanoid and not insectoid. And it's like a very obvious metaphor for a certain sort of, you know, chaos in the mind versus an orderly mind thing happening. And, you know, you can engage with that stuff very, very clearly in terms of how that intersects with, you know, stories about how

what a good body looks like. I will say, I like that they didn't just give him regular-ass human robot legs. They gave him these big, you know, you said kind of minotaur. legs that lift up in that way. I have digitigrate. I always forget what type of, what type of leg that is. But I think that they're kind of distinctive. Yeah, they got little talons going on. He seems menacing.

I think that there's like, it's a big swing. You know what I mean? You're like, all right, we're going to still keep part of the robot guy here. And that's a core Star Wars aesthetic. So let's do it in a way maybe you haven't seen before. You know, not just what if, what if Moll was Darth Vader, you know? Right. More like, what if Moll was an ATST?

But, and then Tals is just like, well, my work here is done and it disappears back into the, like, ether that she's hanging out in. Like, I don't, I don't get it. Like, I just don't get it. They're all, like, everyone died so you can do this shit. Like, you killed the entire order just so you could, like, magic your special boy back together? I don't even get the feeling she cares about them all like that. Yeah. They don't have words.

Yeah. And she's like, we'll get stronger. Who's we? Who's we? It's just you. What's happening? She's got some, I think, I think in the little, you know, in between realm that she's posted up in, I think she's got some, some other friends in there that maybe the Crohn's there. Maybe, like, some of the sisters, I don't know.

Yeah. something's got to there's got to be some untapped squad that she's she's waiting on I would like to think so but also I think maybe there's just a lot of messy assholes in this universe where it's just like this will be funny yeah I want to note there's a bit where where mall like is trying his legs out for the first time and like stumbles a little bit but then breaks into a run now I think that that's a really great little animation of like there's something there's something almost joyous about it they they communicate that like he has his agency back in this way um that this this and this kind of like again it goes to speak to like

the state of mind being returned to him there's something that's just like I'm a fucking force of nature look at how I exert my will on this world and he does this like running slide with them that's very it's almost heroic you know and then he does the big monster howl because he's he's still a Zabric Sith Warrior, so Well, and with that complete, now it's, it's Moll's show, it's

time to begin his plot to bring Obi-Wan to battle. Step one, cut a promo. Bro, this is what it says in my notes. Okay, this is literally a wrestling promo. And my final note on the previous episode was they are giving Moll the biggest push.

This is the most run two full months of promos before the wrestler makes their debut shit I've ever seen. Like, whenever there is a, in people who don't have any history with wrestling, with professional wrestling, a thing that happens is, uh, wrestlers get to cut what are called promos, they're like little promotional videos. During a, during a, a regular, someone who's already established, we'll do what mall does here, which is like, show up on the, the big screen, the Titan Tron and be like, you know,

oh, you're, you're a piece of shit. You know, you're, you're a punk. Like, look at me. I'm way better than you, whatever, right? But before a wrestler makes their debut, there's often. in like a run-up where they get teased and they're it's like either you don't know who it's going to be and so it's very mysterious and creepy there's a lot anytime there's a spooky wrestler they do a much of mysterious and creepy shit where it's just like occult music is playing

and someone is in the shadows saying really mysterious and ominous shit but other times there's like a character who's just like I think a lot about the Razor Ramon ones from the 90s where she's just like hanging out by the pool sipping on dackery you know has his chains down across his chest, just like talking shit generally, like not aimed at anybody, but just like I'm going to be the biggest badass that changes the WWE, right? That's like the way that they talk. And I think the first episode is a lot of these, and then Rob, you're exactly right. He is about to cut, like, the most badass promo as Sith has ever cut.

He's going to call the Jedi directly and be like, I am not just talking my shit. I am living my shit. Yeah, he really Does the whole damn thing I really love it Because he's like I know it gets the Jedi attention Destruction of the Innocent

But to really get their attention You have to call them up first And they're still going to think about it Like they're not going to go in every day He puts them up on the wide screen Which is also funny to me I don't understand how hollow projectors and hollow cameras work because sometimes

a hollow camera is just like it's just a torso or just a head but in this case it is Darth Mall and five people he's about to kill yeah he's got the ultra wide he does

he caught himself on 4K he put it on the 0.5 zoom he did so he has Savage moving the camera back and forth to get the panoramic It'll just move it real quick It'll make it panoramic

You're moving too fast It's getting blurry It's getting all blurry We have to reshoot this Get the other hostages Places So they land on Redonia And yeah

They wipe out this village They reserve a couple For like personal execution During the promo And Mahl does do the And I can't wait to expose Obi-Wan for the fraud he is. It's Somerslam.

That's 100% what he does. And Mace is like, so we should just send in the Navy and fucking like glass the planet, right? Basically, he's like, we've got an army. We can just do this now. Which is, by the way, they didn't.

Last time all showed up. Last time it was like Jedi were still in their fucking ambassador cop mode. But now, they've got an army. And Mace is like, we should just, head over there with a fleet, troops, and a bunch of Jedi, just get him. And Yoda's like, don't worry, Mace. Obi-Wan's girlfriend will be there. Again, another, like, in-touch moment from Yoda.

I'm shook. He was like, nah, he's going to have help 100%. This is the Yoda that you want to see. This is the Yoda that people believe in. I love to see him meditating and gaining insight. I love to see that. The one line. that Mal gives, after he, you know, wakes up from the Riddler's dream, is he says something

about the Clone Wars, or he's like, I sense a great disturbance in the force, and Savage is like, yes, their war has waged, war is waging, the Clone Wars. And anytime somebody says the Clone Wars in the show, I'm like, whoa, like, that's weird. Nobody talks about it, really. I mean, I know we're in it every day, but, like, it's just weird to hear it said out loud. And then I almost called Mall Svosh. Tables of Church.

Maul says, so it began without me. And I was like, interesting, interesting. You knew about the clones. Yep. And about the Clone Wars. That's very interesting to me. He also gets so sad He does get sad

Without me Because this is also the conversation Where he says he feels like he was discarded And forgotten And so it's like damn Y'all even kicked off the clone wars While I was on trash planet Y'all couldn't come get me for the clone wars

I wonder what his role Would have been Would he have been a ventress Would he have been a grievous Or would he have been Something else Like I think His proximity to Duku

was so close and clearly he was very far in his Sith training but it's hard to imagine him as like a general leading troops that doesn't really seem like his vibe the Sith all have a main character like complex when it comes to just imagining what is in store for them like what was Mall's role going to be it was always going to be cannon fodder I really don't think he would

Like, with Duku out there, like, in the wings to, like, lead a political, like, resistance? What the fuck is Maul gonna do? I want that, I want to see that on screen so bad. I want Palpatine to tell it to him like that, like, to his face that you were always disposable. That's what I want. This is what I want. Because the way he talks right now, when he's talking to Savage about this, he's saying, like, I was the apprentice of the most powerful being in the galaxy.

I had a great destiny that the Jedi robbed me of. And, like, I so want him to try to ride. Palpatine in power and just be like, bro, you were always an opening act. Well, like, you were even like, even his name, like he was a mall because Obi-1 needed a mall. And then it moved to he needed a stiletto. And so it was always going to be that this character's and this embodiment of like brute force and like direct aggression was always going to have to be moved off the stage to make room for the political plays that

O. B. Like, Moll was a shock trooper basically cracking open some issues in the Jedi Order and the old republic, but like, he was never going to go through the breach he opened. No. And, but I also don't think that's really his goal. Like, he's not a

political actor. He's, he, he's not interested in that. Like, he's, like, Sith through and through. I want to know what that means. I so the third episode that we're not out yet is actually supposed to be like the part one of a later season later season five set of episodes I I get why they opened with it I guess because people are like coming hot off this mall duology but like I would have loved to see what the next episode I'm excited to see what that next episode is because where we leave on season on the episode three of the set is like they're setting up mall trying to build something I want to I want to know the scale and the shape of that thing, you know. Agreed.

But, like, I think, Natalie, at your point, Mal, you're right. Maul wouldn't have been interested in that, but I think the issue that, like, all the Sith have, except, like, Palpatine is, like, not seeing that you're all instrumental in some way. And because you're happy to think, like, I'm such a valuable instrument, surely I will be around to enjoy the fruits of that victory that, like, they never stop and think. But what if someone else is just using me as an instrument? What does that imply?

Like, what, like, if my instrumentalization defines me, what happens when, like, you don't only need a hammer and you need a screwdriver? Like, that's, like, that's the thing that mall, and Duku, too, they can't, they can't make the leap where it's like, okay, maybe I'm not the special one, though. Like, you know, rule of two, maybe that, like, I will have to be swapped out at some point. None of them can imagine it happening to them. like they all think like it's gonna be me and like I've been told I'm the key to this whole plan

and there's I have no reason to think my Sith master would lie and that's when they should talk to Ventress who has who has gone through it and moved on oh my god I want that yeah so she's she's hanging out with her girlfriend from the from the Fet gang and Bo is there still

and there's some other folks around I thought one of them was Hondo again in just another weak way. Once again, this series playing fat, like, she had her big accent. I was once like you. Goodbye bounty hunters. I have a future. Two days later. All right.

Well, is this still happy hour here? Yeah, my future was ladies night. Like, yeah. Yeah, it's like, am I feeling for the wings? They still got the wings, right? Okay, cool. My future was half off appetizers. It comes out of the last call.

All right, guys. Hey, it's been great. I wish I could do this with you every weekend, but, like, I got a future. You know, I got, like, I got a career ahead of me. Like, I can't be hanging out with. It's heartbreaking. Can you imagine how exhausting me to be friends with, like, because I think we all had that friend, right? Where it's like, yeah, man, it's so good to be slumming here with you guys again.

I wish I do this I can't because I got that good job I got the good job I'm gonna move out of state you know yeah but I'm gonna the NFL combine this year you know you guys are living the dream honestly like I envy you got no responsibility like you don't have the future you're just hanging out

and like you don't know how good you have it you don't know how good you have it you don't know how good you have you're now explaining me exactly why she would hook up with Quinlan Voss Jesus the overlap is very it's very similar So she sees, like, this is very, they turn on the TV in the bar, and they break into the soccer match, basically, with, like, authorities are on the lookout for Savage O'Press and Darth Mall. It's not even that. They're, like, going through, like, a Tinder, like, bounty thing, where they're, like, looking at different pictures of being, like, not enough money. I don't want to go that far

and then they see Savagia it's like a million dollars Yeah This is the most cowboy beam off the show's ever been And she's And some guy from like the back of the Back of the crowd's like I'll take that word

And then Vrentress is like No boys This one's mine And it's really hot She's like cleaning her fingernails With a knife You know, she's...

It's epic. She's ready to go. She's ready to go. Like, oh, my future just showed up. Gotta, gotta go. She downloads the bounty by, like, usually like an NF, not NFT. What's the near, what's the NFC? What's the, what's the, what's the, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amoebo. Yeah, NFC. But it does, it does, unfortunately, also have an NFT vibe. She now owns this hollow savage. The Savage. She, like, puts it up, she puts up her phone to the, to the wall unit, and it downloads, It's a hologram of him. It pulls it off of the screen.

Actually, in Mandalorian, that is how it works, right? You claim the bounty and, like, you're the bearer of the bounty. I'm the dude. Yeah. Uh-huh. But there's also the bounty dealer in Maliborian. Yeah, there's that like... He's got the low-key bounties.

That's the thing, right? Those are off the books. Those don't go through the guild maybe or something. Yeah, yeah. So, either way, she's like, that's my future, hunting this guy down and lights off after him. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan's search for Maul and Savage immediately goes back. He basically, like, gets rolled, tossed aboard their freighter to get the shit kicked out of him. But Ventris arrives just in time to sneak aboard the ship.

And so as they're preparing to do their, like, torturing James Bond, Casino Royale, thing in like the whole this like fucking garbage scow she does the Phantom of the opera thing of just like from the rafters next them into losing their shit

I love that funny laughter echo is like part of her core boob set this is the second time we've seen her do this like that's her special she's great at it it works well I mean that's that's that's night sister magic

right there is like You know, has the, has the, like, ethereal taunt that, like, breaks the rules of time and space. True. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. They fall for it so bad because she is clearly in the room while she's laughing and disappearing into the shadows. And they're, like, they run into the cockpit or whatever.

And you can tell they just haven't owned the ship very long. That's the other thing. You're right. It's like, they stole a bigger ship than they realized. And, like, they hear that laughing. She could be anywhere. And it's, like, it's three rooms. Like, you could, like, it's not that big.

What are you doing here? Quick, scatter. It's so funny. And then we get just so many choice, Obi-Wan Venturous moments as she picks him up off the floor, as she says that he's never been much to look at. He calls her the good guy. She says, don't insult me.

It's just delightful. It's so good. He straight up says, like, what a beautiful, to wake up to or something like that, right? What a lovely sight to wake up to. God. And she's like, you're nothing to look at Obi-Wan because she now has a girlfriend,

which is good for her. This is true, good for her. Yeah. Damn, he missed the opportunity. He missed the window. It's fine. The ship is a show. I know.

He's in a relationship. I decided it this episode. Go watch that see it again. It's all good. Okay. But yeah, there's the, like, Like, they fight a flirtatious battle. There's the, like, here, have a lightsaber moment.

It's like, like, super friends, team up. Like, we were adversaries, but now she is, like, with the good guys. But, yeah. I loved, I can't remember if it's Savage or Mal who says it, but as they walk back in, they say, like, the witch and the Jedi. I was like, yeah. Print it. Delicious.

Put it on the podister, put it on the cover. So good. Also, so the thing is, though, if you're opening, like, man, these two team up, it's too early. Again, this is the first bout. So what's going to happen here is that they get beaten. Like, Savage and Maul are too powerful. But, and I feel like this has been a theme with Season 4, there are so many ways spaceships can just, like, blow. apart and like send people into different like different subspacehips like this is the most this is

the season where things feel more like star trek spaceships than ever where it's like everything is modular everything and just sort of snap apart and like be be launched out um and that's kind of that that's kind of what happens here they they get backed into the ship's cockpit and they're just like well the cockpit's a spaceship too that can separate disappear. Yeah. There are a couple things in this fight that are probably worth calling out. The bit where Mall straight up says to Obi-Wan that he gutted his master while he stood helpless

and watched is good. And he picks up that Obi-Wan is getting angry as he fights, right? And I like that because Obi-Wan has not really had this sort of rival. Duku should be it. But he hasn't become that because Duku doesn't get that involved that often. Or Grievous should be that, but Grievous can't talk to him about Sith stuff and feelings in the force. So I am glad that Maul has taken up that role, especially now that Ventrists and he are, I mean, I don't know how long his Ventures team up is going to last in terms of them being on the same side of any given fight.

But I do just like that Maul can poke and prod at Obi-Wan and recognize things like his lightsaber style. has changed. You know, he's fighting more aggressively. That's really good. And then last, the other thing I just love is, is when Obi-Wan and Venture started, Obi-Wan's like, we're outmatched, and Venture says, you want to run? And Obi-Wan says, I learned from watching you. And she goes, funny, the cockpit.

It's so good. It's like, it's just the right amount of self-referentiality for me where like it isn't quite like reference humor you know what I mean we're not just doing just the reference well because the reference would work for the characters too exactly like it's not and her response is their history is exactly her plots going bad and her cutting and her bouncing yeah yeah totally so I love that bit it's great um and then yeah I don't really understand Rob the cockpit thing because if you're ship has an escape part.

I just don't understand. Okay, the cockpit thing makes sense. I just don't understand how mall and a press are not totally fucked at this moment. Because if the cockpit is the thing that flies away, I feel like multiple redundant safety systems are not going to be a priority

on the flying dumpster that goes to the trash planet. I feel like they're not going to be like, and you know what, we have a separate flight control system and propulsion system and life support for the part of the ship that's going to be hauling trash to the dragon planet.

Like, the wait, is this what, now I'm trying to remember what happens, are they on a different, they're on a different ship, so yeah,

but it still looks like garbage scow. Yeah, it does, it's still a flying, like warehouse space. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't.

Anyway, the point is. And also, like, you know, if you're talking about, like, things that are a little bit frustrating. So,

like, sort of, you know, the fight was a bit of a draw. And then season five opens, and, look, I guess I can't, like, this is disrespect for Adi Gaglia. I'm not going to like, I can't, I just feel like I would probably feel better carrying this fight on with Asage rather than 80 Ghal, in part because this is going to be a dirty fight. come on it's the rowdy sith brothers like you get like they're killing Jedi in the fucking they're gonna be kicking sand in the in the eyes like you gotta you need the you need someone who's like built for this and like here the star season five uh in revival um we find that you know when we catch up with with obi one's quest to to bring the fight to mall he is now joined by

uh adi gahlia as his uh basically partner in this. Meanwhile, other thing is like, yeah, Maul and the Press really are just knocking over banks and warehouses and shit. I do love this opening, which is it's like aliens with droids in some ways where you see a new type of, new type of like guard droid. Not comical like the way the battle droids are, but unlike the super commander droids. This is just like

Very self-serious. What we recognize is like an irregular infantry squad of droids like trying to clear a building and trying to figure out like what is going on and what they're up against is monsters. And I love that shot of like the one realizing someone's gone off the air in the squad

opening the door, you give that negative space in the frame and asking where is the guy turns away and right at that moment the droid gets bodily hurled into the frame and like I think this mall comes up to deliver the coup de grond And the droids are quickly overwhelmed.

But this is, this is apparently the plan, which is that they're, they haven't really discussed the plan. They're doing a lot of heists. A press seems to have gotten in his head that like, hey, we're bandits now. And a press doesn't mind that. Like, Savas is like, man, look at all this money. And this is the moment where Maul does the thing. where I am now the big Siff. You're my apprentice.

And I'm like, Savage, see, this is why you should have just left that guy in the hole. It's fucked up. Savage tries to make a play, and it just gets worked. It's over so quick. It's embarrassing. He gets stepped on.

He gets stepped on by the big talents. And, I mean, I, he was so hopeful for horizontal, power structure and hoping that, you know, they could be equals, that as brothers, you know, clearly he doesn't have that Sith ideology as entrenched in his brain. Like to him, this was much more of maybe like the, I'm assuming like sort of his like Zabrak culture coming forward of like his brother, like his loyalty to his brother, then being equals. and

Maul I mean you have to wonder how long Maul has been away from other Zabrax from the people that he grew up with like what I mean clearly his sense

of loyalty has changed in a huge way to be aligned with the Sith rule of two also just to hear the rule of two like laid out like this was so trippy just it makes me wonder if the part of the thing that they want to do with this character

is put a character on screen who is willing to say these things out loud because Dukkah wasn't going to say those things out loud. Palpatine isn't going to say those things out loud, right? Like, we've seen Palpatine when we were just talking about this last episode at the end of the, one of the two episodes ago, the Rocco Hardin arc, and the way the Rule of Two felt like it was being referenced by the way that Duku and Anakin were kind of put against each other and the way that was all framed. That's a little two shit happening, but none of those characters are going to say rule of two out

loud. Maul was bathed in it and then stripped away from it and discarded and was a, you know, I don't know how old, you said, Natalie, you don't know, we don't know how long Maul was in Sith training, but he's not an old man, right? He's not like he was not. And so I think he, it feels like he was right at that thing of like, there's a little bit of, and this speaks back to the Rob, the kind of jokes we were doing about, about, uh, ventures, but it's also made me true for, for Mall. There's a little bit of like the high school star quarterback who like, that's the worldview. That's the main character syndrome. That's the like, yeah, well, like, this is the way the world works. I know, I listen to coach and then I execute. Now I'm coach and you're going to execute. And like, that's his. his worldview and he's just stuck in it because he hasn't had he he got cut in half at exactly the wrong period of time of his life where that was as far out as his vision could see and he

never got to go from being like you know young 20s to young 30s where he gets a little less a little more world weary you know I think guts me about this though it's just like a press was ripped away from his family mm-hmm effectively enslaved then went in search of like restoring some semblance of family and his new family enslaves him. Like it all unfolds in this one scene where it's like, oh, you thought like

we were going to be a family gang, right? Yeah. We're not Frank and Jesse James. You, like, you are my apprentice and you are literally like beneath me in this. It made me so sad. Oh, I was so angry. I was so angry. I love it. I love it because it lets us keep Savage

in a way. It's true. Savage gets to stay our boy. Do you know what I mean? That's true Because morally He's not in the driver's seat for any of this Like still Right He's like being let around

By now just yet another evil master And in the same way that I was rooting for ventures To break out from underneath Duku I'm now rooting for Savage To break out from underneath mall Yeah I don't know if it's going to happen But

That wasn't a good first bout Didn't look promising It doesn't seem like he's going to break out of the tag team um so but then but then just getting inkling that like my the inkling i get immediately is that like obi one scares the shit out of mall which would make sense but like this whole like hey don't a press has clearly gotten used to the idea of like hey we're doing like lots of heist look at all the money we're banking and maul's like no remember this is all to set us up to fight obi one

The next phase is to recruit an army, but specifically an army of weakway pirates. And this is immediately where you're like, this plan sucks. And that's what Savage wanted. What are you fucking doing? You just told Savage you weren't bandits and you're going to hire pirates?

And so... I was so lost as how we got from, we are not bandits, we do not care about loot to let's go get the loot guys to join... To form an army. This is the most, like, procrastination, like, thing.

Like, obviously, you know, I only care about one thing. And that's beating Obi-Wan Kenobi. But before we can do that, we've got to go through five or six years of good drafts to build up our team. And it's like, you have no intention of fighting Obi-Wan Kenobi anytime soon. but he because it's the like so they go to they go to florum and they easily lure a pirate flying saucer to their ship and immediately like capture these capture the weakway pirates there and instead of just ripping them off they say this is your chance to like we don't care about the money that you came here to rob we have tons of money what we wanted is is you to pledge your service and And so they use those guys to begin building up a roster of, like, defectors out from under Hondo Anaka. Which, by the way, this is the episode where I started to come around on Honda. This is, of course, he has a speech.

He has a speech. It's a good speech. This is, well, and also, like, midway through this, M.K. just sort of marked, you know, like, Honda is a piece of shit, but he is our piece of shit. And that's kind of where I'm at with this character now. Yeah, this is the one And so I don't care for his jokes

Still No, me either And I do think he's a punk Still Like the fact that the way We learn It's a Honda Anaka story again Is by

Again, once again One of his dudes Betraying him Says it all I keep wondering about Like the pirate thing though Because like Hondo's just like

Oh another butanee They'll get over it Come on back Because of this is how So he's straight up He's proud of Right? He's like, oh, they're thinking they're thinking only about money or something.

I'm so proud. Yeah, yeah. This is, yeah, go on. I kind of love it. I mean, I just think he's, I love that he's just down to talk shit to Darth Mall. Like, he's just like,

I've dealt with with people like you before. You're not the first lightsaber wielding motherfucker to come around here. Like, I don't give a shit. Like, you're not as quote this episode

I couldn't even hear it on Cartoon Network I love that he talks shit I love people who talk shit me too the characters who talk shit I love when he says who are these horny-headed maniacs yes I wrote that down I wrote that down I was like incredible lines from him and so like

I was just going to note like one of the so when they get the trio of captains to defect another significant part of the pirate crew that's defecting one of them is like I don't know if Honda is going to be game to sign up for this because the idea seems to be we're going to get a plurality of the captains on board and then Honda will bring over the rest and it'll just like takeover as an org I don't know that Honda's going to be in for this and they kill that guy and that's where that does piss off Honda right away

and he gives that speech of like I have dealt with people like you so here's the thing Hondo what started done on me in this is like Hondo is an Elmore Leonard character in some ways in this, which is, like, there's, Elmore Leonard is a crime writer, but also, like, his story is the foundation for a lot of, like, significant crime movies in the last, like, 20 years. So, like, Jackie Brown is an Allmore Leonard's story. Okay, word, word, word. But, like, criminals in his world, like, there's very few ones that even rise to the level of competency. most of the time, like, criminals are kind of, like, chancers and deadbeats who just, like, kind of, like, live in this world of, like, taking long shots and, like, trying to scoop up little opportunities when they get a chance.

And Honda's kind of one more successful versions of that, where it's like... But that success is reliant on being left alone. Yeah. And that's the thing that I start to really like here is the thing that he ends up saying, you know, after he sees one of his captains get killed by Maul via hologram. and realizing that all these people are leaving him, Obi-Wan calls him, and he's like, greetings, Hondo. And Hondo's like, greetings.

What kind of menace have you brought to my planet? First, you lose the system, and Grievous comes in and destroys my entire strong. When did that happen? Leaving, uh, the answer is it hasn't happened yet because of episode order. Ah. This is the episode's supposed to be like episode 15 of this season.

Yeah, I know it sucks. Why does it keep doing this? They overthink their episode order, so goddamn much. They really wanted to start with mall. They really just wanted to start with a mall episode. That's what they, that's what it is. Anyway, leaving me here to rummage to the leftovers of my once great empire, and now these two horned men show up. Who are these horny-headed maniacs?

They don't seem like normal Jedi. And that's just like, it's perfect. It's like, you're right, Rob. Like, this feels like someone who's like has the biker bar in an Elmer letter novel or like a, you know, whatever, like some places he's moving like, he's moving some coke through it. You know, he's doing, maybe they have like a light connection to like a couple of local criminal. gangs. But like, mostly he just keeps the low profile and collects his share and lets other people do business around and through him. And anytime there's a spotlight near him, it blows up, it blows up his spot and it makes it harder to do business. And I like that about

Honda here. It's the first time that he's felt like just a regular guy trying to make it buy in this galaxy, you know? And I think something we'll get to this, but like, he doesn't, you start to realize he's not incompetent. It's just that his competence takes. on a really different form the range of seeing in Star Wars. But first we got Obi-Wan and Adi Ghalia's

investigation. They hit up that space station that got ripped off and they meet the foreman of the warehouse. I forgot about this. One of my favorite characters we've ever met.

I love this man. The voice actor deserves a daytime Emmy for the he gives after Obi-Wan ignites his lightsaber. So good.

It's so funny. this seat of the show so far he's so good and I'm so disappointed that we will probably never see him again because he is just a rando but oh my god he like the way he's like

they ought to be flush you know the chips were all unlocked there were no tracers on them yeah it's just like again a couple of jadogon rog or something this is the fucking most justified ass he's got that gruff cigarette smokers and like yes all the Snivians are like kind of portly but this one's got like the feeling of a beer got

where he's just like comes out of his little foreman shed and is like well they killed all the droids and were they were some crazy Jedi at red lightsaber What color is your lightsaber? Yeah

yeah yeah spark he's like spark up that lightsaber this spark up that lightsaber it's so good he's so fucking good I love him I need a more certain point of you, the Clom Wars, about this guy.

Just this one guy. Yes. Yeah, so, Obi-Wan and Galea do get to Flora. Rob, this guy, this guy, the guy who wrote this episode. I need to super confirm it's the same guy. It's the same name. Is this the same guy? Okay.

This was written by someone named Chris Collins, right? Yeah. The only Chris Collins, when I did search for Chris Collins, you know, television writer. this Chris Collins wrote for Sopranos, The Wire Let's look you go Was the co-executive producer

Supervising Producer producer For five seasons of sons of anarchy Okay Like it's all right there It's all right there It's all right there So Incredible

Shout outs I can't find another Chris Collins and TV writing So it feels right This is and this is kind of a like a Civil War

and the Biker Gang kind of episode it is the same guy I've just confirmed it's the same guy fully What a king So what a king So Gallia and Kenobi

are racing to join up with with Honda as Maul and a press are beginning their assault on what's left of Honda's base

and like it's funny when is the moment when does it hit exactly the moment mall realizes nobody one's going

to be present for this battle you see like all it's that it's that moment in um Bronx tale where they've locked the bikers in to the bar

and you know in that moment you saw all the fight train out of them like you can see you can see mall is not ready for this

like the the the fight kind of drains out of him at this moment. The rest is going to be like him trying to see it through. But like his whole like, we're not ready for this. This is too soon. This is not what I planned. And it's like, is your plan involved never encountering Kenobi?

Like between now and whenever? Like it was a bad plan. You had an army? Yeah. Like you thought like you'd be able to pick him on a day where like it all felt right. And like there was no doubt. No. Although I got to say, I was not like.

I was scared for Obi-Wan going up against, like, I was like, you're only going to go with two Jedi to go get Savage and Mall. That's it. Like, I was, but then I was very, Obi-Wan proved his point. Like, he is a Jedi master, for sure. He's got it, he's got that shit down. There's a, there is, yeah, well, eventually when he has to 2V-1, though,

he proves himself pretty well. He does. But first, first the other Jedi gets killed. First, uh... Totally. Well, so, and this is an interesting thing, too, because it does set out, like, she tries to basically kick Savage's knee out from under him. Uh-huh.

And he just completely shrugs it off. And so the move that she thinks is going to buy her a second, because, like, he sort of got her on the ground, she lashes out to give him a kick on the knee, and it's just like kicking a redwood, like, just zero reaction. and then he, like, kills her on the ground. And Hondo's, like, Canobi, like, get out of there, like, come, like, retreat with us. And they retreat into the pirate compound.

But, hey, like, let's be clear. I was Savage being Savage. Like, he, like, he might be a real talent of this team. I'm just saying, he's the one who got the kill on the board. He did get the assets, sure. He killed her via horn. That's fucked up. He ran her horn.

into her torso it's like damn he he bends over and that's what happened into her torso I was trying to figure out I was trying to figure out

why the headbut I was like damn does he have a supersonic head butt but I forgot he's got the horns yeah it's fucked up damn and then to top it all off

he stabs her through the stomach with a lightsaber well I couldn't believe they'd done it because first in my head I was like isn't Callie around in the third movie I couldn't remember? No she is not well she now we know why but I still thought it was going to be like

him he'd hover he'd force grab her body and like we need to get you to the Jedi Council for medicine like no just dead on the field abandoned as Obi-1 flees the rest of the pirates but they flee in the Hondo's turf and

he like the other thing I dig about all this is like one this is not the first insurrection that hondo's had to put down pretty clearly like he's like yep this is the part of the go get the fucking cannon get it yeah uh-huh go get it all right go down the the kill zone hallway uh just get it ready and also we're not going to play a turret defense or a um a what is the genre of game that i don't like other people's tower defense yeah he's like i've done this one before And also, it's like, he's sort of like, it's very, like, what is it, the mercenaries in, like, the Renaissance armies, like the Condottieri, where it's like, just switching sides willy-nilly, the minute you pay them off. And you realize, like, Hondo's fear, like, the thing that makes Hondo so survivable is that he generates and carries no ill will.

He has no ego. Yep. He rehires the people who betrayed him. And it's like, yeah, of course, that's part of the business. That's what happens here. That's how I get to be. He's like, this won't be your first. He gives the vibe.

He's like, this won't be the first time you do this to me. But you'll always come back to me. Yeah. Which, like, that's a great perspective to have. Yeah. And immediately turns the bribe money that oppress and mall we're using to get their loyalty right around as an incentive to betray them. Yeah.

why take it as payment when you can take it as loot? And everyone's like, yeah! And immediately the weakway pirates are all the way back on board. And like at a stroke, just in the course of a conversation, Hondo has co-opted the army that the two Sith brought to this fight. Well, and he has a very good, quick argument, which is what are they interested in? Kenobi.

They're not going to need it. He doesn't say it like this, but like, that's what they're after. That's what they've always been after. they now have him dead to rights they're not going to need you after that right yeah and so like let's go take their shit right now and they should have had him dead to rights

they did have him two to one in a dark hallway outnumbered it was scary I was scared but I have to say the the the lightsaber fight choreography for this episode was

extremely impressive it's so wild what Obi-Wan, what they did with Obi-Wan, and it felt like the most, like, fighting. Like, you've, like, he's pushing back. Like, he's, like, super physical, rather than, like, more of a dance or, like, a sort of, you know, choreographed thing.

Like, it felt like he was out there for his life. He's fighting for his fucking life. Yeah, 100%. He gets the double sabers out. he gets the second he has 80 galley a saber which we never see him do a two a two saber fight like this is not a style we see him in and i i in a group chat i'm in someone recently talked about how one of the things that that clone wars starts to do is present obiwan as like the pinnacle of the jenni knight in a way that like starts to lean into like the heroic myth of who he is

come a new hope right like he's he's obi won canobi he's the jenni he's the jedi night night and seeing him bust out this fighting style we've never seen him use before and kind of just master it and read them really well because rob you pointed out i think it was you pointed out that the knee thing that gets set up with the adi gallia thing he shrugs savage shrugs off the knee kick he kicks savage in the knee multiple times during this fight he works the knee it's another wrestling thing right where it's like they're telling the story of he's weakening that knee he's going to keep working the knee until it can be a weakness that he can rely upon. And I love that. And just he, he presents such a confident, you know, face to them when he,

when he pulls out that second saber. He is not afraid. He has, like, this is it. This is where the force gives you that peace. There is no emotion, right? Like, I am going to beat them. The force, the force has given me that confidence. And when you see this, you're like, oh, this is why Anakin respects him. Because when, like, push comes to shove, he can do this. Well, and, like, the aspect of that Jedi serenity can make it seem like they're not, they won't be like corner to rats when they need to be. Right. And here, like, Knobe, like in these last two episodes,

Kenobi has felt like a guy who, when the chips are down, that's actually when he's at his most dangerous, right? Like, the rest of the Jedi fold up like a tent when things turn against them. And here, Obi-Wan is like Absolutely almost like Feral When backed into these corners Where it's like Feroil died, Savage killed him But yeah, it's like

If Fero was more like this, he wouldn't have gotten God Like we'll absolutely like yeah You know what? Fine, we'll double lightsaber this And we will fight it like an MMA match Where it's like it's not going to be the lightsaber It turns out of the decisive It's going to be me beating the shit out of you And when that kick lands

And you see the joint go the other way It's brutal And then, you know, the arm And it's It happens while he It doesn't happen while he has like He has two lights He's like on a wall

He's got two lightsabers like right in front of his face Blocking their lightsaber Like trying to like slice his head in half Essentially and he's like It's just sheer force It's like sheer and then he And gets it Gets the knee

He gets the knee He gets the knee, and then it's because of the change in, it's like he doesn't even do the slice, right? He kicks the knee out in such a way that the, like, pressure, where the pressure is, changes up for him to then duck under and slide past, and it pulls Maw's saber in. No, it is him. It is him. It is him. I went back and double-checked. He does a wild-ass double, slow-mo, like, criss-cross with his blades and catches Savage's arm and cuts it. right off. Oh. Yeah.

And some force juice starts leaking out. Yeah. I was like, is he gonna lose his magic? I was tripping.

I was like, what the fuck does this mean? And what magic does he have? With a lot of them that's right. You see like that energy like bleeding out and I'm like,

is this going to like, is this going to have long-term implications for his like force direction? Very curious. You're going to get less soul. And Maul says come my apprais.

this was the moment for him to say brother and he still didn't do it but he still also panics when he sees him where it's like he's like uh you know so in the moment in the heat of the moment he's very much like horrified he just saw his brother get hit and then he's he's trying to you know do the front thing and it's all just gone bad because like when they when they begin their retreat uh turns to a drag race between them and the pirates uh who were racing for their ship hondo talks a mad shit when they run out and see that Savage has lost an art like they're right in front of each other the pirates and the Zabrak brothers

are right there and Mal is sorry Honda was like how much trouble could they be if they couldn't even deal with Obi-Wan and turns the pirates has the pirates start shooting at them and they have to run it's down bad

just like this is a terrible loss yeah and Obi-Wan's still after them and he ends up being able to catch up with them enough as to slice Maul's leg off one of his robot legs and force juice is leaking out they're so down bad like I did not expect these two to get this fucked up off one fight with Obi-Wan and this is what I'm skipping to this like rushing like they're supposed to be they're supposed to been at will for 15 episodes and then this fight.

It's the thing the show does, which is like introduce somebody and then dispatch them so goddamn quickly in this complication and then discard it so quickly where it's like immediately it's like, okay, they just got worked. And like maybe they will like reemerge

as even more insidious threat over the course of the season. But like here it is like they just got their asses kicked. You know, they're fleeing. for a for a freighter again um and like the pirates are even like just dog piling on them you know they they get like uh savage has to pull the Jedi uh shuttle to be a barricade that they have to scramble over but hondo fully in his element as as the brothers get aboard their spaceship hondo's

just like uh rocket team uh take it down and they they plink the engine uh like you know kind of cripple the ship. So a great shot of it just plummeting back toward the planet as it's knocked out of the sky. God, the exchange. So sad. Kenobi and Anacca have, though, too. Oh, that one. I thought you were going to talk about the exchange.

Oh, the brothers. Yeah, talk about the brothers. Yeah. I mean, as the ship, after the ship just got hit. about our mall is like um we need to get to the escape pod uh the engine is failing and savage is like it's no use i'm done i'm done for i can't do this and then mall is like do not say that apprentice like we must get to the escape pod like there's like still basically there's like still hope for them um and it's it's like savage with his one arm left is like holding up mall

with his one and leg left and they're like just clambering over to the skate pod um and it's sad i feel like savage is like yeah it's just from what we said before from serving one one master to another is like he he he will always be at the expense of somebody else's mission and it's so it's so sad to see it's like i just want savage to be in his own world and doing things for himself instead of more in that moment it's like savage wants to go down and not because he thinks he's beyond help but because like savage would rather like die in the spaceship crash than like whatever's going like he's just so out of his life has just been a nightmare

since he was taken him his village and like this is just the latest stage and like escaping with mall I can understand why that would sound worse than like riding that thing down to the ground because like what you can get patched up and continue to be dragged along

on your enslaver's vendetta like no yeah it's rough rest of this episode yeah go ahead um well I was just gonna say they they get into the escape pod

and they zip away and somehow nobody sees them nobody sees the escape pod detach from the ship I guess again just a little I also the thing that just fucking slayed me though

is that as the pirates are pouring over the wreckage of the ship for loot and Hondo's noting that like well if the state of the treasure is any indication they probably got vaporized too and nobody's like well actually mall's proven very hard to

and Hondo just like, oh yeah, it's very interesting. He straight up he says, like I cut him in half before and he lived, and Hondo just completely no-sales it. It doesn't care. Don't care. Where's the loot? This is, it was fully the moment where it's like, Hondo's cool. I love Hondo.

Cannot believe. I cannot believe. I held out for four seasons, but now. Here we go. I love Hondo. There's a big sign over the ruins of his fortress, and it says in Orobesh, Hondo Salvage Prices Slashed. I was wondering.

It's very good to me. Oh, he's a king. It's very, very, very good. And, uh... Oh, I forgot to mention another name of a place, which is the diner. So, I have two diner trivia. The diner guy who raised the pan, like the fry cook. the cook in the back

he has a tattoo that's of a heart like growing from a vine and it says mom in Orabash and the name of the diner is plop dribbles Wow God

Jesus God No Plop dribble Plop trills Yeah maybe a plop at five Yeah maybe a plops Plops on the strip I mean that is that is the sound of a pancake

hitting the grill But, I don't know that I would be... And dribbles is the coffee, you know? Yeah, it is, shit. It is, it is. Pop dribbles, actually a great name for a diner. I was just going over the trivia stuff. The name of that dumpster truck, the dumpster, sorry, ship, is the turtle tank.

And it was inspired by, any guesses? The sand crawler? Nope. Turtle Beach headphones. No. Dave Filoni's Pet Turtle Goji Jesus Christ

Of course he had the pet turtle Yeah Okay Yeah Sure Thanks Dave Sure thing What

Well Anyways Anyways Anyway back on Corrison They are They are pulling the power cord on Obi-Wan's

quest for revenge And really, it's Palpatine wading in as the heavy to overrule. The Jedi Council seems like they were 50-50. I'm like, do we let him? And by the way, I would probably continue giving him more leash to do this because, like, he ended up winning that round. Yeah. Yeah. Also, it wasn't a personal problem when everybody was like, oh, I feel a great disturbance.

Like, everybody had a problem with that when ball was waking up. It's still going to be a problem. Do you think that it's the optics of like, all right, you, you won that fight because you were booked to lose it, right? You were booked to die and you lived, and so that's a dub, but you lost 80 Gallia, and you helped a pirate keep his territory. And, like, that's not a good look, optically speaking. Also, you, like, teamed up with, like, one of our most wanted assassins. Yeah. And, like, we're all kind of curious what that whole deal is.

Yeah. Yoda was fine with that at the time. Yeah, Yoda was fine with that at the time. Yoda was down. I think, yeah. Yoda's a shipper. What can we say? I feel like it's like Yoda was on board, but then Palpatine makes this good argument

where it's like, oh, I don't really think that you have to do that. And then Yoda has to be the one to support Palpatine in the room because Anakin's not going to do it. Obi-Wan's not going to do it. But how is the presence, the research? of Sith, not of concern. Well, they already know the Sith they're back. They just think it's Duku.

Yeah, but this was Duku's main man. No, he wasn't. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no, no. Duku was not, was not Darth Tyrannist during episode one. They've never known where Moll came from. Mall predates Darth Tyrannis.

By a lot. Toddler Anakin is when Moll is going around. Yes, yes. And he's a little baby. But that means, like, that's the area means. Like, he always represents kind of a, where did that guy come from? And they never answer that question. This is the, so this is the thing I kind of wonder.

So the scene ends with, like, Yoda does the, like, you know what? I'm going to back up the CEO. I'm going to, like, absolutely. You know, he makes a good point. Like, you know, we have to, we do have to give ground on this. He's, he's right. We have to continue keeping this, like, political marriage working. And they all sort of, the meeting breaks up.

and we see Palpatine go back behind his desk uh you know his door flanked by uh wall sconces that look like twin lightsabers uh double double uh double sided lightsabers uh and he sits down his desk and gives this fucking uh like smirk at the camera as the episode comes down

but here's what I'm wondering does he need the Jedi off this case because like it's a huge problem for him if mall is out there running around. It's like having the accomplice to your original crime like the most deeply buried of bodies like up and running around.

So like Palpatine's got that little smirk like ha ha, you know, again, everything as I foretold. But I kind of wonder, is his smirk more like, okay, thank God, now I can get my people on this case.

Right. I think he's about to go recruit him. Mm-hmm. that's like I think this to me he's like I got a little piece on the board again I read it as new new muscle like he he's like everyone needs to back off mall first of all mall and in Savage are down fucking bad if the Jedi were to chase them at this point they could very well kill them yeah for sure just put him out so to me there if if that was really what you're saying right Rob of like, oh, here's this threat that I need to go deal with. If that was really the case, then I think Palpatine would have let the Jedi like, oh, no, go, take them out, take them out. But I think him telling the Jedi to pull off is giving him enough time to go recruit. But see, this is my thing. He can't let the Jedi go do it because what if instead of just like killing him, they just, what if they talk for five minutes?

What if they just, like, what, like, if Obi-Wan and Maul talk for five minutes, if there's an interrogation of any kind, what comes out? I don't know. I think maybe there's a trust in the fact that Maul, to our understanding, Maul's obsession is with Obi-Wan himself. It's not with the Jedi, not with, I mean, in a way, it's the Jedi by proxy of Obi-Wan, but it's not, that Maul doesn't really speak to a larger ideology, even though we know he's a part of one,

which I hope comes out in the future with Maul and Savage, that like the larger Sith ideology and motivations like that starts to come out. Because that was one of the things we didn't really talk about is how much these three episodes, especially the second and third one, emphasize, or especially this last one, emphasize the lack of public knowledge about the Sith and Mal's attachment to the Sith specifically, and also the Jedi's fear of the Sith. So I feel like we had multiple instances where people are like talking about Maul and Savage as being just Jedi, because they're just the guy with lightsabers.

And multiple times where Obi-Wan's actually educating people and saying, no, no, no, no, those aren't Jedi, those are Sith, like speaking Sith out loud, which you assume is something that, if it's not as common knowledge, is something that the Jedi have tried to squash from, like, public consciousness, like, they don't want people to know about the Sith and what they do. And also presumably. That's the other thing, right? It's like, as far as we know, they have not dealt with Sith in generations. They thought they won that fight.

Right, but isn't it like the kind of thing that you would still talk about of like long time ago, like there used, almost like a, as a warning and a remember. I wonder. As a warning and reminder that there was once this very evil dark force and look at how. I mean, they're not talking to anybody, period. generally speaking. Like, people don't know what a Jedi really is, it seems, increasingly. As we get that interactive, they know they're the people who have lightsabers,

and they do some tricks. Except Asoka, when she substitute teachers. I know. But even there, they didn't know shit about Jedi. But also, I feel like Mandalorian schooling, it would give you info on Jedi because you're a mandol- They did know shit about Jedi. But that's because they're Mandalorians.

They had a war with the Jedi. You know what I mean? But, like, if you're a warehouse guy, I don't know. fucking you got the laser sword and you can make me do things I don't want to do with my with your mind like that's all I know about you um but no I think that I wonder if part of it is that there is a great um not guilt but a a um a sort of um what's the word I'm looking for uh let's just say guilt for now that the idea that like oh one of the greatest terrors of the galaxy are fallen Jedi right are people who World wants us, and they stopped being us and started being this other thing. We carry this possibility within us. We shouldn't tell people about that.

Yeah, they feel great shame over that. I wonder if that's part of it, of them not telling people, not teaching the world about the Sith, is that, like, you start to say, oh, the Sith could happen. They come from Jedi. They've been fallen Jedi before, and you start to kind of erode your own, you know, power base. And so I very much feel like the Jedi are like, we'll handle the Sith internally. also the thing of like if you go out there and tell people oh by the way you could get a lot of power by doing the dark side if you have force powers is there the fear of that like profligating whether or not that's the right call I you know I don't think we you know how we feel about what the Jedi order is done so but at the same time I feel like if the word starts getting out that there are two lightsaber wielding homies out there killing innocence like that was was the other part of Palpatine's argument that I was just like, this doesn't

this is, he's like, this is a personal matter of specifically Obi-Wan, not even of just the Jedi, just as Obi-Wan's problem, why should this be a republic concern? But if the way in which Savage and Mal are

seeking out Jedi attention is through like the slaughter of innocence, isn't that a republic concern that like people are dying? No, that's local and the state rights, that's, they got to take care of that. That's not what the military's for. Sorry, Rob.

I mean, they don't draw attention to it, but my suspicion is in the context of this galaxy, they're pushing bodies into, like, mass graves with bulldozers, like, the amount of, like, war that's happening across this galaxy. Like, this is bandits raided my village, and the context for this, like, is, like, a capital city on a planet was, like, obliterated by, like, battle droids. And the Republic couldn't get there until it was too late. Like, I think that is, like, I think the argument that they're sympathetic to here is, like, mall and a press are threatening, like, towns.

And on the front, we are dealing with the math of, like, inhabited worlds. Also, you're right that it's, Sidious wants something here. And it's just him creating an effective argument that he doesn't actually believe. Of course. But, I mean, I guess that's the thing that I'm surprised the Jedi didn't fight back with. more so like of course Sidious is going to say the things he needs to say to get what he wants

but but on the Jedi side I feel like or at least the Jedi why does why does he get to dictate why does why does Sheave get to dictate

what is a priority to the Jedi because they serve the Republic what is even on the board they serve the Republic of they are not why because that was the deal they made and then the and no Star Wars thing has ever talked about this.

No Star Wars thing has ever explained. I've said this before and people always message me. I literally have this on a post-it note on my computer. What is it? It says, why do the Jedi serve the Republic? Well, the people answer that in abstract ways, but no one will talk about what policy was signed, what, you know, treaty was agreed upon

what the terms of that treaty were. I don't think we'll ever get a particular specific. We know that the Jedi predate, or that the Jedi is an organization predate their current relationship. relationship with the Republic, that they were founded on Tython and that they had their own independent thing, and that they came into relation with the Republic. They were two separate things at one point, but we don't have the, there's no, we don't have the constitution of the Jedi in that way, you know what I mean?

We don't have whatever that, that cord. I want it. I want the words. I want to know what they are, what they are, you know, contractually obliged to do and how much autonomy they have. I think I wrote that post-it note, like, after one of our very first recordings. We'll never get an answer. It has been on my monitor since then.

Like, unless something new coming out, unless something new gives us an answer, which I guess High Republic stuff, which post-dates the relationship between the Jedi and the Republic, but if something comes out of one of those things about what the conditions of their relationship were, please let us know. Because as of a few years ago, when I asked this question, all I got was big abstract answers. Sorry, Al, you've been trying to say something for a minute. Oh, no, no. I was just thinking because, like, the, when we were talking about, like, where, like, how are the Sith perceived culturally and things like that, it almost seems like a reverse of what we're about to see in the Obi-Wan show and then also, like, post-revenge of the Sith into the Mandalorian where it's like, first you need to eradicate all these people.

Like, they beat the Sith and the Lord and then probably had the whole, like, we have to hunt them down thing. But then culturally, it has to be like, oh, they never existed. Don't worry about that. And that's why you see, like, Han being like, well, the Gen. aren't real because you have to like you really have to make sure that people are not thinking about this thing yeah and Han like Han says that but Han presumably lived during the time Jedi did exist and roam the planet like he was a kid when the clone wars were happening or a teen maybe I don't know how oldies, but

Born 32, B.B.Y? I think. I saw him to be solo, so. Yeah, he was born in the year of the, of the, of, um, of Phantom Menace. So he lived during Jedi times. He lived during the Clone Wars. But he was a baby. He was a baby, and he lived in the slums of Corrella.

You'd not see Jedi down there. Right. But, yeah. And if you did see somebody with all, lightsaber who did some magic tricks, does that a Jedi make? Or is that someone who stole a lightsaber and they're pretending to be some mythical thing, you know? Sometimes I think about it in terms of like, you can think about a story in which

the knights of Arthur exist, but you're just like living in some backwater village and someone shows up in armor and you're like, I guess this is a fancy knight. Is this a knight from the roundtable or is this someone who has some armor on, right? It actually goes to the, it's the, it's in Mandalorian, it's the Marshall character. It's, um, right. Um, Timothy Oliphant's character wearing the Mandalorian armor, but not a Mandalorian, right? Pretending to be something he is not and because of the power it gets him. And it's like, is that really a thing?

But the only person that knows is, is, is, is, is, is din, yeah, yeah. But you find out, you go, and din is the one that calls him out. But I'm, in other words, in a world in which that stuff, happens. I guess it makes sense. I've been on both sides of this debate of this like you two weeks ago. I think I was on this podcast being I don't understand how people don't know who the fuck Jedi are. So I get you. Well, like, I mean, this is even during the clone wars and this dude who is on the ship is like, I haven't seen a Jedi before. I didn't know that you guys used red lightsamers. Like the like cultural conception of this stuff is is already bad when it's

happening. But then to like have the like and whether this is part of why the Jedi made that deal with the Republic or whatever in terms of being like the only thing we're going to talk about is Jedi take Sith out of the libraries don't show them on TV let's just control this for a little bit

because you don't have to worry about it and we're going to fight for you so you don't have to worry about it but here also now we see like the trap they put themselves in which we've submitted ourselves to a, like, civilian authority, but also our order is founded to deal with some, like, outside the realm of, like, traditional politics, there is this other conflict that exists in the galaxy that our order, like, largely in many ways, is shaped by and exists to oppose.

We just haven't had to suit up for it for a while. Here now, they've had, like, for 15 years or more, they've had warnings that, like, the Sith are on the rise, and they still, now, now they can't react. react to it because, like, they are so enmeshed in this forever war. They have so many other things that, like, really, is this what Jedi should be doing? And the answer is yes. Like, Jedi, where they're Sith, Jedi should be, like, flocking to go oppose Sith. But they are totally distracted and obliged to be distracted by this war that is always, like,

just on the cusp of, like, tipping into chaos. that's the other thing because like I I don't know what Palpatine's plan is but you would think like having some of the Jedi go against Mal and Savage and like start losing a couple of them like they just did would be a great win for him but maybe he sees that happening better if he gives Mal and Savage time to build

yeah right you know to become another another force In some ways, I really wonder what Sidious thinks about the Knight Sisters being wiped out, because it's like, on one hand, love to kill a rival off, love to diminish. On the other hand, it's one piece on the board he doesn't get to push around a little bit. And maybe the rise of a new one of those could be useful, you know? Whereas it's clear he feels good about Ventris not being Duku's assassin anymore because that was a threat to him, you know? Right. I guess with Mother Towson, she's not as much an individual as she usually represents like a group of people or an organization with their own motives. I mean, she certainly presents herself that way. As long as Mother Towson is doing good, the Nights sisters are doing good.

Yeah. I mean, I hope we get more Talsun soon. I just need an explanation. I just need, I just show me the plan. Yeah, please. Give me something. I think there, like, a lot of this is going to be hopefully answered across the rest of the season five. Does anything else we want to hit before we wrap up these episodes? I have a question. Yeah.

Do we know what the tagline for, did I already ask this? I feel like I asked this. You want the tagline to season five? You want the season five tagline. Yeah. Not the, you don't want the season four title. Season four was balls back or whatever. It wasn't. It was battle lines.

Oh, yeah. Season five does not have, it doesn't seem to have a tag line. Oh, but the little epigraph at the top of the Wikipedia entry. Some of the characters that we have created for the show will meet their destinies. Oh, right, there's this image.

There's this image of Palpatine looking menacing, and underneath there's all the characters, including some we haven't met yet. I don't know who some of the people are. Who will fall Why is Honda? Why is Honda here? Maybe Honda falls. What happens? You know? Who will fall?

Embo is here. Embo is here. Why should put Embo up? Embo doesn't get to be in this class. The sudden realization, we don't have enough protagonists to really make this concept word. Also, we already have an answer for one of these. The characters in the list are, it's a death watch. It's a Death Watch guy with the Dark Saber As you can see

So presumably pre-visla Yeah 80 Gallia Dead Falling Hondo Anaka Darth Mall Rex

Svaj Asoka Embo Ventris and Satine Oh man Are you about to have an embo season If we had an embo season That would be tight

I saw Embo in These episodes Embo is in the bar With Ventris the puppy. That whole clip, but even in just, yeah, yeah, that was with the puppy. That was in this, that was right, that was with the arc. But the whole rest of the crew was there, too.

Sugi was there, like that, his whole click was hanging. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Ventress somehow went from being not a bounty hunter to like hanging out with bounty hunters we know, which is very funny to me. What a disappointing future. Uh-huh. Or maybe a good one.

Who can, who can say? So that will do it for this, this end of season four, this kickoff to season five, the slightly rushed pickup of the of the Savage Mall arc. I have another question. Yeah. When are we allowed to watch Obi-Wan? Also, nobody, if you are listening to this,

don't you dare fucking at us. In anything that has to do with the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, I will be so mad. Please don't. I will consider. There's already mad spoilers out there in terms of what the premise of the show is,

and people didn't wait at all to hide it. Do you know what I mean? Please don't tell us anything. Please. I muted a bunch of terms and then found out that I didn't mute enough of them. That's, that's, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, only. I had to add to the list.

Social media, strange game, the only winning move, not to be logged on. A hundred percent. So, yeah, I don't tell us anything. When are we allowed to watch is what you asked? I think after season five? It's midway through season five. The thing that I have. have in mind is about midway through season five.

Also, that show's going to end and someone's going to DM me. You can DM me about stuff because I know the big stuff. There are a handful of things I don't know. I don't know if we ever get more info on Cody, Commander Cody, for instance. So like, don't tell me if that shit happens, right? It's like we get info on what Obi-Wan. If that ever resolves into anything, you know what I mean? In other words, if that resolves in Clone Wars, I don't want to know.

But if it does show out, if that resolution happens in Clone Wars and it's referenced in Obi-Wan, you have to tell me so that I know I don't walk into a spoiler that it would be nice to retains. I have so few spoilers. Tell us if we've seen enough. No. Enough to watch. Tell me nothing. Tell me. Talk to me.

You're going to make this decision ourselves. Yeah. I tell me some details because there's big stuff coming this season that I know is coming, that I know is coming. I know about when the episode is and what I really need to know is is there stuff to know boy the end of this fucking season So there was like

The Disney Plus UK did a tweet that was like Here's what you should watch before you watch Obi-Wan And one of them was season 5 episodes 14 and 16 14 through 16 that arc 14 through 16 yeah Which I've sort of internalized as like oh we're good after that those and those are those are the rest of this arc that we started

today that's the rest of the mall yes so okay yes so at the very least we're not watching obiwan until until that but is that true or would they just be like oh yeah those are big obi one arcs so watch those and you've got a sense of what's going on with obi one so i am content Like, I'm going to that of a real aside, honestly. Like, I can watch this. There's no shortage shit to watch. I am okay waiting on, like, to see how it's unfurls across Clone Wars or, you know, just gobbling it up as it releases. I think once we finish this season, we'll be in a pretty good place for stuff in terms of core stuff I have been worried about getting spoiled from the jump.

There is, like, two big things this season. that I've been desperate to get to. And one last season, which was the return of mall. But, like, I also thought y'all knew that because of solo, but that's fine. Now that one's out there. Oh, shit. He's in solo? Not really, no.

No, not actually. Oh, good. We've done this before. We have to do a solo bonus pot. I want to bring it back because I need one last opinion. We got new Yoda and new Palpatine this episode. I don't know if y'all notice this. I need to know thoughts.

They made them less pointy. So here's the thought that jumped out of me in that scene. Yeah. I don't know why, but it suddenly seemed like Yoda had a receding hairline as opposed to, like, it didn't, like, it was like, wow, like, things are rough for him. Like, his hair is retreated. He has more hair, but somehow it gives more of a vibe of his hair just receding. Uh, it feels like extremely day one of presidency, year eight of presidency. Yes, I was literally thinking the same thing.

I was like It's very funny It's so funny I mean I guess I like that His He looks more stoned In the second one Love this for Yoda

Maybe that's why he's able to see more I like his cheeks Hey yo Wait Damn Yota what you do? We're out here, double-cheeked up on a Thursday. Anyway, here's the new Palpatine.

New and old. The old is the floaty heads next to him. I do not like his cheeks. I do not like his cheeks. You don't like Palpatine's cheeks, or you don't like Yoda's cheeks? All the above. All the above. I'm not saying the word cheeks ever again on this podcast, unless it's in relation to...

Yeah, that's the fit from... from the beginning of episode three. This is what he's wearing when grievous quote-unquote kidnaps him. It's, the fabric is wool that has been rubberized. That is what it says. Please note that the material of this outfit is dimensional as the fabric is wool that has been rubberized.

What the fuck's that mean? What's dimensional name? This looks like a V-tuber reference image. It does. It does. It does. I also have this other Yoda image, which I think is very, funny because he's T-posing post-tee posing Yoda oh yes oh but the last image he's turned around we don't give it any cheeks no cheeks he just cut him off damn it the dark mall him I do also have just I mean for the record that I have Star Wars dot com also does

have the warehouse dude the brook here is what the warehouse dude's shit is yeah uh-huh what's his name um the warehouse supervisor was simply described in the script is having a quote slight build with a frontier twang I don't know do we have a name for this guy we must have a name for this guy I love him he's great

damn he's got the tabby's on that's right let's see what does he have a name he must have an name the trip is unreal and we just know that he's a snivian we don't have his oh wait why does this

oh is this the dude yeah his name is Mortimer snug Mortimer Mortimer. Mortimus? Mortimer. No, sorry, Morlimer. Morlimer. Mortimer.

Morlemore. Snug. Snug. Snug. Mr. Snug. Mr. Snug. I love him. Yep.

He wasn't named at the time of this episode. He was named in 2021 retroactively. Oh my God. Why? He was, he's a deep cut reference, apparently. He was, he was, there was a, there was a, there was a, there was a, there was a, there was Kenner action figure named Blue Snagletooth

from the 1970s. This is sick. This is a remake of that original figure. This is like an illusion figure that existed in 1978. And so they were like, let's just make that guy. That guy was always cool. This is really just rolling out random action figures.

Come on, let me copy the right one off. Fuck off. eBay. eBay's annoying. Yes, yes, 100%. I want this guy. He's great. Love it.

They're so good. I love him. This was, yeah, this figure was originally exclusive to the 1978 canteena playset only available through the Sears catalog. Fantastic. Damn. Fantastic. So was he in the canteen?

Yeah, this is the guy. Remember, there's one of these guys. This is also Sinrich. This is a Snivian. And so this is one of the guys who was just hanging in the canteen. But this is the one that just directly references that outfit in the action figure with the bell buckle. I see. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. I see. Anyway, I think we're extremely done this podcast. We're extremely just hanging out on a Saturday afternoon now. Yeah. We're fucking motoring because the next arc is four episodes. Yeah. And all of them are basically four episodes.

Yeah, we're in it. However, we're going to probably slow down a little bit for a moment as it takes. some kind of season break we are so we're at the season roll over also we've got a bunch of professional obligations in our day jobs at this moment

like we are all of us entering a really busy like month ahead of us and so we're already kind of fudging some of the recording schedules out of event like there being a big disruption but it does seem likely at some point we're going to skip one of

the one of the cycles for regular releases that might have been on a slight lag from when like obviously we're having this conversation

long before like you will hear us hitting this part of the schedule but there will probably be a brief break just to cover us dealing with day job stuff

and also just take a little step back from Clone Wars during the season rollover Patreon backers have heard us discuss Jedi Lost

I think before this episode has come out I think you have already heard our discussion of sort of this background story on Duku and sort of the state of the galaxy during his apprenticeship and his wilderness years and then next week Patreon backers will hear us

discuss the Q&A or maybe there next week or might actually be two weeks that might be where we do kind of a two-step thing a break yeah yeah we'll see but it'll all you'll get the stuff this. It'll come out on the wash. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, if you'd like to hear the Patreon

stuff or just want to support the show, you can do so at patreon.com slash civilized. Until then, please rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. It helps so much. It also means a lot to us to see the feedback, good and bad. And please do remember,

as a press really should have known, not all blood as family. Damn. That's true. Not all skin focus. It was kinfall. Thank you. Thank you.

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