A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 44: "Aldhani" (Andor 04)

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Three episodes can trick you. It's enough that you think: Okay, I have the gist of the show. I understand what's going on here. I get the moves the filmmakers like to make, I understand tone and theme. I get what the actors have at their disposal. But three episodes is nothing. Sometimes a showrunner handles the introductory arc themself, only to step back afterwards. Budgets dip. The relationship between actors, directors, and others on set can sour. Three episodes can trick you. But Andor first three episodes didn't trick us. Join us this week for our dive into the fourth episode of the series, where we dig into all of our favorite topics, including cultural deterritorialization, the penchant intelligence agencies have for falling into paranoia, and, of course, extremely shitty husbands. NEXT TIME: Andor Episode 05 Show Notes Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)

Let us return once more to a more civilized age of Star Wars podcast. I'm a clone Wars podcast because I'm still Force of Habin. I'm Stumbling over it. I'm Rob Zakeney, joined by Ali Akampura, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. So a criticism I've seen leveled against the prequel stories and frequently agree with, honestly, is that they end up telling stories that do not really need. to be told, tied to familiar sporting characters who don't really work as a primary narrative focus. But with its first three episodes and now with episode four, Aldani, Andor is really

making clear that its emphasis is on giving characters and events context more than origin stories. Does Rogue One need an origin story for Cassie and Andor to become more interesting? Patently not. How does the world end up creating someone like Cassie and Andor? Well, now we have a story that makes Star Wars itself a more interesting subject. Context is the theme tying together this banquet of character actors in Aldani. Not a lot happens in this episode and or is deposited on the planet Aldani to become the final member of an insurgent strike team targeting an imperial payroll shipment where Luthan Rail has insisted that the rebel commander leader Valsartha take him aboard her little

band of true believers as a mercenary. We get context for Luth himself as he returns to his life on Corrassonde as a soft, posh art dealer, sycivant to the great and the good. One of his clients... Not an art dealer. A relic... A relic... An antiquarian, a relic dealer.

Stuff's taken from other people's cultures, which is a center point of this episode in many ways. One of his clients is none other than Ma'ama, who we meet as a beleaguered, liberal senator, who is secretly helping to bankroll Luthan's activities but she knows the web of imperial surveillance is expanding and she might just be sleeping with the enemy as we glimpse a dismal home life with a cheerfully collaborating

husband who has almost despite her invited many of her mortal political enemies to their home. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Okay, we'll get there. We can't wait for that dinner. Cannot fucking wait.

We see the context from Mammah them is growing fear and suspicion as we spend more time with the ISB, the Imperial Security Bureau, I assume, as they keep the ledgers of the empire's threats and plots. We meet three archetypes of ISB officer in our time at the agency. Major Partigas, a Donish spymaster in the mold of a control from Tinker-Taylor Soldier Spy. Deid Romero is an ex-criminal investigations officer who is hungry to prove herself in the insular ISB. and Lieutenant Supervisor Blevine is a similarly ambitious and much more conventional type of ISB officer

who has found himself tasked with cleaning up the debris from the disastrous operation on Ferrex. That disaster has, of course, ended the careers of everyone involved with corporate security. But it is Karn for whom we get more contact. He is a striver from what looks like public housing, ashamed of his background, but also with nothing else left to him

when the empire shuts down pre-occupied. security. The episode ends with all these pieces, you know, left standing on the board and with Andor and his band of rebels poised to take action on Aldani and carry out their daring heist. And of course, the heist itself depends on the history of Aldani, its people, its traditions, and all the context that the empire can't be bothered to learn. This is a real fucking TV show. This is a real ass TV show.

We're watching TV. You're saying that because people are being allowed and encouraged to act. They're acting with their cadences and their expressions. There's often subtext to a sequence. You're interpreting what's happening. There's time spent on things like a character putting clothes on in a way that's creating meaning about who that character is. Yeah. I mean, it is in the prestige TV mode.

It's probably worth saying that. It feels like it's a TV. It feels like it's a TV show because it's being made like a TV show. Mandalorian was not that. Book of Phippa Fett was not that. They have budgets, but they're being made in the style of adventure shows like... They rely on exposition. Yeah.

100%. And that's, I'm not... Again, I really like Mando Season 1, and I really like a lot of Mando season 2, and I really like the Mandalorian part of Book of Povera Fet. But it's a different thing, and it's very fun to see. Star Wars acting that play out in this mode. And I think partly it's fun because for a lot of us, I said this last time that like parts of this remind me of stuff that was in the O'DU. It also reminds me of like doing Star Wars role play. It reminds me of like reading certain Star Wars comic books,

even contemporary. Like, you know, this to me feels more of a kind with the Kieran Gillen Star Wars comic stuff that I've read than it does feel like it's of a kind with Mandalorian. It's interested in that style of storytelling. And it's, it's fun, not. to see like, oh yeah, wow, Star Wars could do this. We knew Star Wars could do this. We've been known Star Wars could do this. They're doing it. And it's like a relief to see the emphasis put on interesting and well-written dialogue and, you know, characters being given the space to, I mean, the thing that I end up saying later, and I think this is my big takeaway from this, if Rob yours was about context. Mine is that I wrote here that they brought a flashlight into the

shadow of a myth. We know this shape well. There is an empire. There is a rebellion. There are spies. Those are big, bold, broad things. But we get really fine detail here. We get relief here that's constructed inside of that familiar shape. Like, one of the things people keep saying about this is like, you don't need to know anything about Star Wars to watch the show. And I think that that's true. There are little nods. There are Easter eggs. Believe it or not, there are Easter eggs in the show, but you don't need to, you don't feel like you're missing anything by knowing them. And I don't think you need to like know Star Wars beyond there was a rebellion and there was an empire. Those are big, common, understandable things. And it's, it's giving us

detail on those things that for some reason, most of what we've watched before has not given. Now, we haven't gotten to rebels. Maybe rebels will give us some of this in this era. But when I think about even Clone Wars What it did for the era of the before the fall of the Republic Most of the episodes weren't doing it When they did it, it made us excited When they did banking clan stuff Or when they did something really interesting

About the clones and clone culture We were like, ooh, that's juicy. This whole show is the juicy bits so far. Yeah, it's having so much fun. it's treating it as as texture in a way that it doesn't need to be explained like we understand the concept of the underdog of the outsider of yeah the imperial like we can recognize the symbols from from what we've the past 20 30 years of star wars all of that is recognizable and we don't need it to be explained to us anymore we get it like we we can recognize the shapes in front of us and like understand them for what they are from a zoomed out perspective.

We've spent so long in a zoomed out from looking at Star Wars from a zoomed out place, I think. And I think the thing that I really took away is almost like a hope and excitement for the future of Star Wars material in general. just that like I think after the Disney acquisition there could be a fear

of well they they won't do anything experimental again really because now you're you've always been focused on selling toys but now you're owned by Disney and like who more wants to make toys than Disney like no one and I think the fact that like

there is a main line Star Wars product that is doing things with subtlety not to not flashy not like here's the big creature here's the this this that like we haven't had a creature

we haven't had a creature moment I would like we've barely seen a Hang on Nerchy was creature Nurti was the human was the other guy was that was a vest Vesta Vesta something like that Yeah

like what a creature really we love that guy that we're also a big dude from the neighborhood yeah that's true and I bet we get a creature I feel a creature coming yeah well now we're on that grassy ass planet I feel like creature creature are you as high on this one as Natalie and I had a great time yeah I had a great time with this I feel like the interesting thing that I kept going back to with this is that like this is so juicy but it also like when we talk about like morsels on the show in terms of other things to think about like Like all of that is still there. Like I, we'll get to it. But there's a scene in this where I was like, I need to know what the fashion magazines on Khorisades are. Because the way that they have costumed this man implies so much. You won't get there. Yeah.

I know the man. I wrote the, yeah. Yep. So, yeah, there's just like, it's, it's good that, like, it's, it's so dense while you're watching it. But at the same time, you're like, oh, I'm thinking about all of these other things. Yeah. I think I think to that point the the morsels that we the crumbs that we've gotten in the past maybe this is really what I was trying to say that that has always been used

as texture right like there is another world going on outside of the hero's journey that story that we're telling you think about the prequels you think about like trade root kind of talk like the first 10 minutes of phantom menace right right as we've talked about belabored on that podcast like that's but that's texture and here that those that's the anecdotes it's it's it has real ramifications on the people that we're watching um in in real time like thinking about yeah so i think i think that's what's so exciting about this is just that all of that stuff is actually tangible in this world whereas before you have to just imagine at Imagine that Cassie and Andor on a planet and how this, like a person like him and how this affects him and imagine his story.

And we just get to actually hear it this time. That's actually a perfect segue to what Lufin tells Andor himself in a scene that, speaking of things that sort of fill in areas, but also just raise so many more questions. We finally get Andor asking Luton, like what is the plan here? here like what like what did you pluck me out of the situation uh for and he is he's clearly sort of caught on to the fact that luthan is uh some sort of uh like die hard anti imperial but what's great here is that it's now very clear the civil war doesn't seem like ever fully died away or if it did it spotted briefly before you had anti imperial resistance sparking to life

under a bunch of different names. Andor reads a laundry list of things. I'm going to play this audio for this new. I'm going to play this whole conversation. And then we should come back and then we come in on that laundry list, Rob. Yeah. Sound good?

We'll turn it as a conversation. Perhaps you've got alternatives I'm not aware of. Seems to me you have two choices. Either I drop you somewhere and you start running. You come with me and help with something important. And of course, you could try and kill me and take the ship. Define important. Taking something of real value from the Empire.

I don't need you to steal, seeing how well you're doing on your own. I'll take the drop off. And do what? Continue as you are? We'll use the same rope to hang you, whether it's for a plastic. whether it's for a plasma coil or 20 million credits. I'm offering you everything you want, all it was. What is everything I want, since you know so much about me? To put a real stick in the eye of the Empire.

I get paid for it. I wondered who you were. Who am I? Alliance, Sepp, guerrilla, partisan front. One of them. Isn't it all the same? It is to me. So we agree.

I know. I think it's all useless. Better to spit on their food and steal their trinkets. It's better to leave. Better to eat, sleep, do what you want. You don't know me. I fought in Minban when I was 16. Two years of it.

Straight out of prison into the mud. I'm one of 50 that survived. And who did it turn out we were fighting? Ourselves? So please. You were on the ground in Mim, but for six months. You came in as a cook. You lived because you ran.

But you're right about one thing. The Empire had you fighting each other. Which would make you hate them all the more. And you do. I said, I know you. I know the outside. I know what people tell me when I'm. people tell me when I ask.

The rest I imagine, I imagine your hate. I imagine that no matter what you tell me or tell yourself, you'll ultimately die fighting these bastards. So what I'm asking is this. Wouldn't you rather give it all at once to something real than carve off useless pieces till there's nothing left? I didn't risk my ass for the Starbeth Unit. I came for you.

What's the offer? Five days. Big stakes, big danger. Prep team, good plan. Survive and deliver. I'll give you $200,000. What would we be stealing? The quarterly payroll for an entire imperial site. real sight. So what's that list of names that he just that he said a minute ago or whatever?

Sep, Reb, partisan front, partisan, front, yep. He says alliance. Yeah. Guerrilla. Alliance. I love when people call them seps. Like that, that just, um, there is a, there's, actually a quick update speaking of the separatists. So when we recorded this last episode, the Star Wars.com trivia gallery for those first three episodes was not up yet.

It is now up, which means that there is a piece of trivia that came out of that episode that we did not have then. Unfortunately, the episode four one is not up yet based on when we're recording. But it is worth saying here, uh, here, here, here, we go uh oh this is the this is not the tribute it's the story gallery i need the trivia gallery here it is the flashbacks in episodes one through three occur during the later years of the republic prior to the start of the clone wars with marva and clamoring an incoming republic frigate interrupting their salvage operation crewers aboard the transport corsair where a uniform which is a symbol closely related to the eventual separatist alliance.

Traveler to travel to Canari will later be restricted by the empire due to environmental disaster. So these are not separatists. They're people wearing pre-separatist. Like whatever fleet the separatists took their device from type situation. Yeah, which is interesting. Who knows? Or we left that latte cup intentionally. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

It's such a big one. It's such a big one to make a mistake about that. And you can digitally correct. That'd be trivial at this point. As fact, it's probably digital to begin with. It's probably not a physical. I use it's on the uniforms. It's physical.

Anyway, yeah. And as far as Andrew's concerned, all of these different things, whether you're separatists or guerrillas or partisan front, you're all the same for him. And crucially, that cynicism is informed by the fact. Now we get, like, I think this is why as an imperial prisons record, is that he enlisted as a teenager to go fight in Mimbam. He doesn't say on Mimbam in Mimban.

But as he puts it, you know, he spent six months in what sounds like Trench Warfare just to like sit like in the mud. He says he spent two years. Yeah, he says he spent two years and he was one of, he said he went straight out of prison into the mud and he was one of 50 to survive. And Luton's like, really? And he's like, and what did we do it for? We were fighting ourselves.

And Luton's like, um, I have receipts. I have receipts. You went there for six months. You came in as a cook and you lived because you fucking ran. So what's good? You're coming with me. We're going on this trip. Which I don't think is meant to undercut that he's skilled.

I mean, he believes he's skilled. yeah but it's it's like you've been telling people stories about yourself for a very long time I'm not interested in that I'm interested in who you who you actually are your capabilities and I know that there's there's something else in I imagine I imagine that's the key I love this piece yeah he says I know the outside I imagine the rest um about his understanding of Andor. What's true there is, like, again, so many things end up being metatextual about, like, later, I think, effectively, the commandos he ends up with her, like a theater troupe and, like, discuss him as a better, like they are casting a role. But here, Luton is, like, the author of the rebellion in some ways, or at least the author of the character of Andor.

And he takes the backstory that is real on Andor and then says he imagines the rest. And what's interesting here is that in the process of imagining this, he's going to instantiate it. Like, he's going to make it real. The story of Andor, the character that he imagines Andor to be, it seems likely that Andor is going to end up becoming roughly in line with what Luton imagines him to be. And the question is going to be like, who did work on who. But the other thing that I found really enticing is this notion that coming out of it, one of the things that really leaves Andor disillusioned is that he says we're fighting ourselves. And then it certainly implies that in the early days of consolidated in the empire, it does the thing that a lot of, like, a lot of imperial powers end up doing, which is they begin investing resources in turning potential resistances against one another. You know, we talked about the echoes of Northern Ireland in the last episode.

Well, you know, famously, this was a major part of, you know, British intelligence's role there. which was to always make sure that what was once a huge resistance movement becomes three or four different resistance movements all with their own feuds. And it sounds like some point has happened across the galaxy. This is also just classically what happened a lot of decolonial efforts in the later half of the 20th century as the CIA and other Western intelligence operatives effectively made sure that whatever sectarian divides they could introduce or lean on inside of any given decolonial effort were enhanced and eventually, you know, often turned

into civil conflict instead of, instead of revolutionary conflict, right? Cool. Great. And I think, you know, something else here is you do see Andor playing around this idea of, well, we could just, you know, what's the point of all this? We just leave. I could go live free. Or at least free is going to be allowed in the empire. But, like, he could go somewhere to a place where it won't be that bad, where he could

he's just like safe and relatively independent of all this. And is that when Luton busts out the imagination? I mean, it's basically, and that's where he says, I've already played it, but that's where he says, and do what? Continue as you are. They'll use the same group to hang you, whether it's for a plasma coil or 20 million credits.

Damn, they're writing the shit out of this show. They are writing, they are putting their whole, they're writing they're writing it's so cool like the tabbing into the fatalism of the low level crook

where it's like you're gonna die yeah but like so what's the point of dying for something stupid when you could die with something sick what's the point of dying for 20 bucks

when you could die for the quarterly payroll over the entire imperial sector wouldn't you rather give it all at once to something real than carve off useless pieces so there's nothing left and you literally have no idea

how hype I was when the reveal was that this is a payroll heist. Like, are you kidding me? Because the knock on effect of that is, are people not going to get their checks? This is how Lutheran is thinking. Luther is thinking, it's not just, oh, okay, we hit them and take a bunch of money from them.

The money's important. We learn later, the rebels need money, bad, right? So that's part of it. But also, the knock on effect of all your little imperial people aren't going to get their check that day. Maybe it's only one day later. you know what I mean but this money this is money this isn't they're not going to hack a thing they're going to get money and they're going to leave with it and people are going to be like

where's my money I feel like I slightly manifested didn't I have a whole conversation about oceans 11 the last time recorded this podcast yes I feel I feel like I slightly manifested a heist it's happening it's happening it's high time baby I can't We have domestic quarrels. We've got... We'll get there. Listen, Maddie. We'll get there.

First we're talking about spy bureaucracy, which again is one of the best things I could have wanted in. Oh, my God. This is so good. This is, okay. So, like, you've already dropped in the first bit of audio. I'm probably not going to drop in this bit. But when I was watching, I was like, I'm going to just record scenes that I think we might want to drop in the audio of. I think we will want the audio of when he poses the question and she's dumb enough to answer.

So my point being, I got through that first scene. I was like, all right, next scene's coming up. Probably won't have to record this one because I just record the last one. Nope, got to hit record. Boom, another banger. 20 seconds in. Banger, banger, banger. That's the musical transition from the high intensity on the ship with Cass and Luton

into the, into chorosant, seeing chorosant like this. So well scored. I can't emphasize enough how good the score is working with the cinematography and everything is just, it's so good. And again, just getting on to Choruson.

Yeah. I didn't know if you had a Choruson thought. Oh, no, there's just like that really good shot of like the panning shot of all the Choracin high rises that I've seen New York captured in a million times to be like, we're in Star Wars, baby, let's do it. But it does. It looks sort of in the Clone Wars Star Wars. It's like dingy. It's gray. It's concrete. It feels like going back all the way to the prequel trilogy where nothing feels like it has any sort of like material presence in the scene.

That's partly, that's partly just like the technique, but it's also partly the aesthetic that Lucas was going for, you know, all shiny, plasticy, et cetera. And yeah, wow, here it all feels like this is cold. It's weathered, it's weathered steel and concrete. And again, contrast this with the Primor Security Facilities last episode, which had that 1970s retro vibe. Everything was kind of brown and yellow, and they had their computer consoles, and they had their blue uniforms,

their orange, you know, piping and all that. Not here. Much more blue collar. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, they got, they got 80s sharper image in some ways, too. It's like, I mean, that sounds corny because it's like, you know, that becomes an aesthetic that, like, becomes really,

played out, but I think they do a good job of capturing, like, what futurism looked like as the 70s were about to give way to the 80s, and the empire embodies it. What's the scene? What goes on here? We are, basically, we are attending a broad meeting being overseen by Major Partigaz, who is like this intelligence chief, and he's just like checking in with. all like these section chiefs it's the most boring and bureaucratic meeting you can imagine it is him going around the room asking everyone to report on their areas of concern what is happening in their

areas of responsibility and he thinks and here's the thing he's chafing against most of the people in that room are dead weight it is so clear that their reports are their reports are half-assed they are not insightful uh like part of gas is is very fussy and very bored I call him Donish, and he really is fully in, like, lecturer mode looking for the student. Which of you is going to be the student brave enough to try to distinguish yourself as having something going on between your ears? And so he finally gets frustrated as he gets one sort of vague report. Each of these, by the way, implying a great deal of interesting things about what's happening in the galaxy. Also, this is a room of people, like, our, you know, our prospective character is probably the youngest.

the bulk of these people are in their 40s to 60s, right? With the exception of one person, I think it's all men. Our lead, I think, is the only woman in the room, right? I think there was a middle-aged woman. I love a girl boss. Oh, she's the most girl boss. We're about to meet some of, this is like Elizabeth Holmes. This is like, we are in.

And they're trying to gatekeeper. She is, she is, the other touchstone for me, I mean, it is really Elizabeth Holmes, but then also the Tilda Swinton character from Michael Clayton is like a lot of these mannerisms are very similar person who's like no she has to perform is practicing performing but is surrounded by a bunch of fucking 60 year olds many of whom are more incompetent than she is but knows that there is also there are other sharks out there right and part of guys is one of them you know when he finally gets frustrated and asks like what are we doing here And it's clearly a flip...

This is his equivalent of flipping the table on his step. What are we doing here? And I will drop that audio in here also. What do we do here? Sir? What is our purpose, Lagrette? On our Varna 6th?

I open the question to the room. What do we do in this building? Why are we here? Anyone. We're here to further security objectives by collecting intelligence, providing useful analysis, effective covert action, sir.

Very good, Dedra. That is verbatim from the ISP mission statement and wrong. Security is an illusion. You want security? Call the Navy. Launch a regiment of troopers. We are health care providers. We treat sickness.

We identify symptoms. We locate germs. Whether they arise from within or have come from the outside. The longer we wait to identify a disorder, the harder it is to treat the disease. Do you understand my meaning, regret? Yes, sir. Don't trouble yourself writing the memorandum. I'll reassign it. Blevine, Moulana's sector, this incident on ferrics.

Corporate security, sir. They're still in charge out there. They tried to serve a warrant and ran into more trouble than they'd anticipated. Trouble meaning what? Several dead. Property damage. Interruption of service. A stolen Imperial Starpath unit was recovered at the scene. Those responsible? Unknown, sir. I'm heading out immediately after this meeting. We'll speak before you leave.

There's a beat here I love. This is not a question you should answer. This is, by the way, just when someone does this, do not do what she does, which she gets a small little smile as she, like, right after she answers. She's so confident. Yeah, she is, like, the brightest kid in the class. Hermione knows the answer.

She's the brightest witch of her age. And, man, is this an obvious trap? And so she gives the textbook answer. And it's an interesting moment because I think you sort of see, I don't know. There's something so imperial about Partigas in some ways. He reminds me so much of Cushing's performance as Tarkin in a lot of ways. So clinical.

And you can see how a figure like that would rise to power when surrounded by these mulling, you know, bureaucrats who are like trying their best to please Papa, you know? And there's no Vader around. There's no one, you know, Tarkin has a check invader in VIII in some. ways. This guy doesn't. This guy's just going to go do this stuff and is going to, you know, be able to just like run rough shot across all of these people because the only place they can go is up through him, right? He's the one who could assign them to new better stuff. He's the one who can cherry pick them and give them new opportunities. And so they just have to kiss up and like try to figure out what rules is he playing by? What answer does he want? Like let me try to like read the

tea leaves of this other person. And that's, that's a very fun thing. to see inside of this terrible imperial spy organization. And it's curious that you called out, like calling out the lack of Darth Vader here. There's no

like formidable powerful in terms of like physical power foe here. Like everything every, Cassie and Andor and in Luton are like super capable

physically and you know they have had their action sequences but there's no like there's no Darth Vader and so the whole post conversation where you know

Partagaz is talking about security is an illusion you want security call the Navy we are healthcare providers this like when he said that I was like Natalie's looking around the room I'm looking around the room I was like

wait What? And he's like, not because I didn't understand the symbolism here, but I was just like, wow, like writing. We're writing. And we're performing. And we're writing a man who's like able to deliver both like a really dope evil speech and also a really pretentious evil speech. Like this is a guy who loves to hear himself speak. He's been sitting on this all day, all week. He can't wait for this opportunity. Yeah. And that's like just so. That's hot leadership, baby. That's right. That's right. But it also, like, it sets the stage for the rest of this episode where never before have I, maybe not never before, but you feel so strongly the seeing eye of the empire in this, in this episode. And you feel the weight of that presence. You feel it glaring on you. Feel it on the back of your neck and it makes your hair stick up. And it's like, I don't, I feel like it feels like maybe the imperial probe droid, like an empire strikes back when it first lands on Hoth and you just, it's so tense because you know it's coming. But other sort of like imperial, you know, stormtroopers just patrolling, you don't feel that weight.

It just feels like action figures walking around. And I think it just casts the empire such a formidable. and they're just setting up. They're just getting started. Like all of this is they're putting down the foundations and the building blocks for this like national surveillance, you know, galaxial, I don't know, galactic, galactic. We're going to go galaxial from now on.

Galaxial, galactic surveillance. But yeah, anyway, Rob. Like, I think one of the things. things about the speech is the other part of it though is it also makes clear how tenuous this all is like the interesting thing about the part of gas so far is

on the one hand he's exactly the sort of guy that like could save an empire and also exactly the sort of guy to accidentally tip the dominoes over to start to cause the entire thing to unravel because of this entire metaphor he uses of like we're

you know we're healthcare effectively we're treating diseases of the body. You know, the analogy is you're catching it early. You know, catch with the infection, excise it before it can spread. Like the notion that, you know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, right? But, you know, once you apply that logic at scale, you start applying possibly preventive measures in places where you have no need to apply them.

And now you're creating enemies where maybe none existed before. you're creating friction where none existed before but on the other hand what's he say he says he says whether they arise from within or come from outside and like you're going to find cells to turn on inside your own body if what you if what you do or what you are as an unchecked you know device of killing right or of finding foreign invaders you will find foreign invaders even inside yourself um which is like lines up with something else that is much later in this episode But last episode, we talked a lot about ethnicity and the fact that human ethnicity seemed important in this show in a way that it did in a lot of other Star Wars stuff. It happens again much later in which a character, Luton and Luton's secretary at his shop or his assistant.

I don't know what her actual role is. I don't know what her, you know, try to identify Mon Mothma's bodyguard by his ethnicity, by his nationality, by where is he from? Is he from? I think it's the same planet that she is from. Yeah, Chandar. And I don't, I'm not reading them as being like racist there. I think they're worried about like, hey, can he, can we trust this guy? Does he understand what the deal is?

Or is he a spy or what? But it did make me think about the other thing about the ethnic human turn in this show, which is the empire fucking killed and like, and excised most of its alien population from its core. They didn't get rid of the racism, right? And so it's like, well, where does that go? Do we suddenly care a lot more? about planetary nationality. Because the old, because the old human, you know, supremacists have kind of lost their

original metric by, of outside, you know, of being able to decide who's an insider and who's an outsider here. Are we going to see in this vision of the world one in which Canari means something and Corellian means something? And I forget where Mon Mothema is from, but that planet's, yes, yes, uh-huh, uh, shit. chandrilla. They say, is he a chandrillin? Exactly. That's the line. And so, does that mean something to you? Because it wouldn't have meant something to you in Clone Wars. You know, Pantoran meant something. They got blue skin. That means something. Right. But no one was like, oh, Nibuians are da-da-da-da-da.

They might say that Jar Jar and the Gungans are something, you know? But like that sort of like, that's interesting to me that sort of, we're in a moment where human national character or human ethnicity suddenly is a symbol with meaning. It has content. In a way, it didn't really 20 years. Again, it did loosely. Correlia build ships. We know that. But it didn't, in Clone Wars, this never really came up. No one was ever like, oh, yeah, people from Tatooine are like this, you know, about Anakin. Except if you're a mere cat, you're a pacifist. Right. Aliens, you're 100% with non-human aliens. Yeah. And it's interesting to see them starting to see the culture here potentially adjust to take that position on humans.

Yeah. Anyway. I mean, it's so interesting. This is such a human-centric Star Wars show. Like, we don't have a single, like, main character, alien. I was sure we were going to be an alien. Like, we don't have, we had the droid in the first, you know, three episodes, but I don't know if there will be, like, a droid companion.

Well, Luthon's shit. Luthon has the ship, yeah. Does have a good voice. I'm, it's such a, I want, I have to wonder if it's like, the fact that we're on so many practical sets, the fact that we're like, like, is it, how much of it is it, is it an effect of the actual production that was planned for the show that we're, we're sticking with these, with human stories, human characters, is that like, are there CGI? Was it like, you know, a sort of consequence of that? And to like a great effect. Like I think, you know, the stories that we're getting are really interesting. I'm just curious if it's like they had to kind of veer. How do we tell a story? How do we tell a Star Wars story with no aliens in it? Like no funny little goofy guys. No, you know, what is what is that type of Star Wars story? I mean, there's no like, yeah, yeah. like i will certainly say like probably everyone involved in this has seen enough like star truck for instance that like

you know you can't help but like kind of look corny once like we put elf ears on this person look they're vulcan now they're like oh you're an alien you're vulcan way like i think the show's kind of dodging this a little bit where you get the like the actors are going to be there for all the times they have to have the smallest like prostheses and such we're like, oh, you're Bajorans, ah, the Bajoran people with the little wrinkly bridge of the nose thing. They're, like, it's all shit like that.

So, like, I think I can see where they're ducking it, but also, to be clear, I think, like, there have been times in the Star Wars games, for instance, where they're, like, imperial is a culture, imperial's an ethnicity, which I've always been, like, that's kind of weird to me to be like, oh, they're, they're an imperial, like, family or background or whatever. And I'm like, unless we're specifically talking about, like, they're in the hierarchy of the empire. I have my doubts about that. But I like kind of what they're doing here of, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Like, all these political structures are layered over, like, a galaxy that was vastly seeded by different races. Right. And so, like, when you go to Aldani, they're all humans. They're not imperial.

And they were not given the invitation to become imperial, except under. some particular circumstances but like they don't but they did not get an invitation to like join the fleet uh in that way right

totally this is this is I think it's when we get to the Aldani stuff I think we'll have more to say uh anyway oh I mean we're right back to Aldani because I think boy the last thing here is that

is that um sorry Dedra is that her name Dedra yeah takes note at the end of this Imperial, like, it's almost like a morning stand-up that on pharix, someone has found an unclaimed, still-sealed, unused, rare Imperial Starpath unit or whatever.

I'm just her facial expressions are so good. All through this scene and all through the episode, she's just constantly emoting in very fun ways. her eye movement is so good I love to watch her work it might be tied to the steer guard incident is this where she later later when she is

talking with her like aid or partner or whatever that's what she mentions there is a throwaway line here about Rogue one though this is one of those Easter eggs oh there's an increased shipment of construction materials going to Scariff which is the planet at the end of Rogue One

where they build the super where Imperial R&D builds the super tower, the big giant tower and the shield. Oh shit. That ends up storing the Death Star plans. So it's like, is this the empire, not knowing the left hand, not knowing what the right hand is doing? And the answer

is probably yes. Well, I mean, the ISB in a lot of ways is a different, like, Tarkin thinks, Bill Death Star, you don't need doctors, you can always threaten the tumor to be obliterated by Death Star. And Part of you, I think, envisions a much more proactive like soft empire

in some ways. That's soft in terms of like kindler Kindly or gentler but Yeah You can starve the sickness You can starve the sickness You don't have to cut it out So then yeah

Back to Aldani Yeah and we get Val Who seems like she's been in touch With Luton for quite a while They've had a plan for this plan for a very long time

but she was unaware that Luthin was going to bring a friend along when he came to meet up with her and boy he sure anticipates this is going to be a tough conversation but when Luthin finally decides that the conversation is at an end

like we see a gear that's telling Scarsgaard has not brought out yet in this series and he's kind of like I feel like we need a third version of him like over the course of this episode but like where he finally blows up and just like lays down how it's going to go

like there is a bit of these are all his people and like he's looking out for them and like helping them like set up these teams but also boy you know they allude later there's sometimes a rebel commanders who would execute somebody for sleeping on duty or something like that

I sure suddenly get the sense that Luthan might be in that mold in some ways. Yeah, he snapped at her, right? She is raising her voice early in the conversation because the idea that he would, the specific thing that he's done that is upsetting is not provided another body. It's specific, I mean, it's providing us another body so late

and it's providing one who's a mercenary and not a true believer. The idea that he's getting paid 200,000 credits for this mission when their people have been, as she says, eating roots and sleeping on rocks for this rebellion is deeply upsetting and understandably so, right? Yeah, yeah. And so eventually, Luton, you know,

that's not the point of which Luton yells. Luton yells later when he notices that she's just like looking at the ground and kind of picking at rocks with her staff, just kind of like with her walking stick, just kind of being like disinterested, you know, yeah, yeah, kind of sulking a little bit. And he finally just yells at her. Like, what?

Because you didn't get your, like, this is the reality. Like, not everyone's going to be down for the cause. Like, you're going to have to pay someone to get a job done at times. Like, not everyone. It just goes back to the thing that they agreed upon in the ship earlier, which was separatist, partisan front, whatever you are, you're anti-imperialist. They're the same. For this part of the moment, we're the same, you know, which is another classic moment of rebellion thing, right? is like, you're going to be in the trenches with people you don't agree with on some shit.

Now, like, you should decide, like, hey, this is somebody you do want to be in the trenches with? But for as far as Andor and Luthan are concerned, the difference between, like, the partisan front and, you know, the difference between Saul Guerrera and Mon Mothema is nil. Because what you need is people who want to fight the empire. And I think that, like, the idea that, like, yeah, of course you're going to work with mercenaries, is part of that core idea. or it once you accept that core idea of course we're going to hire some mercenaries as part of this is it ends up being more acceptable quick question

also before Lutheran departs to have this conversation in private there's both a character beat and then there's a thing he refers to but he sort of debate it he debates with himself and he gives Andor this amulet he's carrying around and he says it's like a quat chiber crystal

It is... It is Blue Khyber. Uh-huh. Skystone. It celebrates. It's from the ancient world. It celebrates the uprising against the Rakitan invaders. Which means something different now than it used to, but is something that players of Knights

of the Old Republic might recall. In Knights of the Old Republic, spoilers for Cotor, I guess. You end up tracking down an ancient facility called the Star Forge that was built by, this is where the Roketan are originally from, they were built by an ancient alien race called the Builders, aka the Rockata, and they first colonized the galaxy, is basically what happens in Cotor. And like the big MacGuffin that you end up fighting over is like, hey, if we could get this thing, then we could win the war, because it can just like print.

ships. It's basically a giant 3D printer that can make more ships. In current, in current canon, the Rakita are sort of similar, but we just, none of the Cotor stuff is canon anymore. So it's like they were the first species to develop hyperspace travel. They built a big empire, I believe, like in the ancient, in the ancient era. And then they lost and disappeared. and so question mark question more question mark

but the point being this was another revolution at another time and this chiber crystal was I guess a symbol of defeating it so says Luthen

is he telling the truth or is this his lightsaber crystal because he's actually Rail Averroes You know what I wrote it when he pulled out that

Kyber crystal I was like How is the conspiracy going? How are we all feeling? And later he puts on a different sort of voice kind of. He does have a different voice? And I'm wondering, does he have a Western one in there? Well, now I want this to be true just to have Scars Guard, try to pull it off.

I believe, I believe it. I have all the faith in him. I could, I put, yeah, I believe in him. And Rayle Averos is being like a rich guy for a while, right? Doesn't he end up leaving the Jedi Order and becoming like... It comes like a regent for some sort of princess, because it was like a child. That would be a useful place to get historical artifacts. Now, I will say it would be hard to be that in public and then also still be...

I guess he changed his name when he wears a wig now, which we should get to. Yeah. I'm a different guy. There's lots of scars guards. but the other thing too is why does it give him this is like a down payment retainer or is it he says it's down he says it's worth 50,000 it's down payment but you give a guy a down payment to go on a suicide mission like I don't know it's an interesting it's an interesting gesture that I couldn't quite parse that you know he also warns them whatever you sell it for it's worth more

to me and like so there is a bit of I guess is it a gesture that's entirely about buying with trust. That makes sense. I like that a lot. I think so. That's how I read it because it doesn't have a use to, I mean, the only point at which, yeah. This is about to be a big test for this show, because there's one of two ways this goes. One is, there's one of 80,000 ways this goes, but here are two.

One way could be, he gets through the shit, he ends up getting back with Luther and returns it to Luthan, Luton, says, no, keep it. It's clearly a good luck charm or something, right? And that's it, right? Nothing, nothing else. The other version of this, the Mandalorian version of this, the Clone Wars version of this, you got to slam it. It's a key, and it unlocks the ancient Aldani ruins, because this is where they fought the racqueton and it rhymes, right? That's the other version of this. Or it's used, it's revealed that, you know, there's a lot of space in between there. It uses a power source because if you know, Khyber crystals, something, something, something. It's a battery.

It's a battery. It reveals that he's, in fact, Rayl Averos and not Luthan Rail. And one of any of these things, right? But the version of it that this show so far, this show, that would seem like a really big turn for this show, which so far has not been interested in that style of Mcuffin-heavy, you know, storytelling or that. just that tone, you know. Anyway. So with Val having been bullied into taking Andoran, we now cut to how things have been going on Farrix since All Hall broke loose. And I sort of wondered, you know, what would become of the chief?

What would become of, you know, Linus Mosque? Mosque? I was like Moss. Mork? Moss. What's going to become Linus Mosque? He's such a Linus. It seems like nothing. Maybe all these motherfuckers might be getting fired.

They're all fired, dude. But Karn gets special humiliation. Yeah, we see Lieutenant Levin just like reading them the riot act and like outlining. Here's the funny thing, though. Austin completely called it last week. you mentioned that Carn's calculation is the Empire

is taking over all these installations and so they've just been kind of waiting for the moment where we're going to have to fire these assholes too

it has arrived earlier and in more of a shambles than they wanted but like oh these guys were all marked for bureaucratic death

yep now I mean the dude basically says proud are we take solace in this you will not be replaced you have wrung

the final bell on corporate independence As of this morning, the Morlana system is under permanent imperial authority. Congratulations on that. And it's just, I love it. He sees exactly what this guy really did dream of the place and knows just enough to twist a knife in his back as he gets fired. The other half of this is so fun for me as the rest of this episode continues is thinking about Karn. What's the other way this could have gone?

My suspicion is Karn solves this situation. let's say he goes and he gets Andor and rest the Andor And maybe he even retrieves the box Actually maybe I think the Star Path box might be the key That hinges how this could go different ways He doesn't get the box back, he just gets Andor I think nothing happens He doesn't get a big promotion

Literally they never show up They show up three years from now To turn this place in the Imperial And no one ever knows his name he gets fired He gets a pink slip That's it Maybe he has the box He can negotiate for one other thing

which is to be put on the path that Dejra got put on and still be at the bottom of a wrong just one step, all just on a different ladder. And I think that that's an interesting thing to think about here. We get neither of those. What we get is he fucked up and now he's fired.

Man, I love it. My favorite detail in the scene is that they all have to submit receipts of ownership of their own items so they can be redistributed to them so long as the Imperials have already been able to inspect them. Okay, look

The Empire's bad. One of the Imperials here. The Empire's bad. But also I do love watching cops get fired. Oh my God. Never has... He's so...

Karn, I love seeing his eyes red and teary and he just looks pathetic and like, I love to just see this crying man walking home to his fucking mom who hates him.

I swore his mom's going to be Italian. I Felt a county of everything. Oh, 100%. Coming off the, maybe I'm wrong about, I don't, you know. I hope we get some home scenes because I need to know what's happening in that apartment. I need to know. Spoilers, I guess for two scenes from now, he goes home.

Yes, he goes home. But he, he, he, I mean, I think it's worth just following him through here because I think he doesn't say a word, this whole sequence, like from getting fired to going to going to his mom's house. He says, I think at his mom's house, he might say something, but it's silent. Like Buster Blythe says mother. Mother. Yeah, he does. Oh, he's Buster Blee's energy.

He's just. Was it at least Hein, is that what the other guy's name was? Yeah. Hine was like, I didn't do anything wrong. And he's like, yeah, that's exactly why you're fucked too. But he was at your fucking meeting. Here's the one thing. Justice for Hine. Are you defined? He's the one guy

who recognized, yeah, I'm leading a shitty police force full of corrupt cops. You know it with the least the last thing we should have these guys do? Anything. It's true. You know, he just needed to do that more forcefully, Rob. Yep. You know.

He was going to those imperial meetings every month and lying to them. He's got to go. He was. Sorry to be the voice of the Imperial. Wow. Come on. ISB agent on. Well, actually, that's kind of the funny tension, right?

You got dudes like part of guys who are like, I need to sift the sands for any signs of weakness. And you got guys like Hein out there, and there will be another hind whether or not it's imperialized or not. But out there being like, oh, man, just shit like this gets the attention of the ISB. Wouldn't it be better if it just weren't in that report? Just went away. If it just went away. But no, I'm with you. Like the entire, like, and also the literal come down in the world.

that they're evicted from their corporate housing. He fucks off to whatever planet he's from. He flies in a different spaceport. I don't think it's Corrassan. I don't think so. He doesn't feel like he's funny. I don't know. I thought it was, I thought we were going further south.

I mean, if not south, further down in, in Corrassant. It could be, but he, either way, it's Corrason. This is one of those things that's going to be up on Star Wars.com, but they haven't updated it yet with the, I know they're going to say, oh, if you translate the, the language on the on the spaceship you know departure side it'll say where he went and but he loses his home he has to carry his little pelican case luggage uh across like on the on the space bus ride it all the way down to this brutalist like i am sure it's a soaring brutalist building all but it looks awesome from the upper levels but he's down the support struts like this is this looks like council housing in a lot of like mega city one type shit now that you

now that i'm looking at the elevator stuff and and natalie you said you thought it was just lower down i think you might the fact that he gets on that elevator and his goes you see like the buildings at least yeah you see the buildings in the distance and then yeah it feels that there's like a train running through it it feels like we're kind of descending lower it would be convenient for him to be where the other characters are also. Like, for Dedra to go say, hey, I need information on the guy who

had that Star Path unit. Exactly. And, like, get their stories hooked up or whatever. I think you, I think that's very likely that that's what's going to happen next. I mean, Karn doesn't seem like he's going away. They wouldn't have given us to this if he was going to

disappear at this point. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just, I also just love a quiet walk through these locations and spaces and just life happening around it and it just feels so fucking bleak like from so many

perspectives the universe of Star Wars in this moment is bleak and even within this like mini rebellion you know a lot of it is bleak and doesn't seem you know it's a

one in, what did he say? Like, billion chance that their mission is going to come off or whatever is going to go off. So, like, and I just love the architecture, like, this, like, it's just very fun to see. Agreed. Well, and just the last thing I'll note here, too, is, like, the fact that his mom has a pronounced accent that he does not share, that he has coached himself out of. really does a lot of establishing who this guy wants to be versus in a lot of ways who he actually is which is a great touch that like

he is now perfectly alienated right? He's not really from where he's from anymore but also he got spat out of the Imperial Command structure and so now he's got nothing which did make me wonder I wondered if this guy's going to end up being our villain Or is he going to end up becoming like the ally with the most corrupt mode as possible Like the better version of that dude who does the whole like I was against the empire like in Rise of Skywalker

Hawks yeah yeah like if this is going to be the competent version of that Maybe I could see that I could totally see that again the two paths from here yeah it's that or it's deadger brings him under her wing and I think it's that X, Y, Z, right? It could either way and I could see either way.

I prefer the latter than to rehabilitate this schmuck but like, yeah, I don't know it's rehabilitable. Neither. Anyway. Oh, you had something. I was just saying,

he needs to stay pathetic. Every time I see on the screen, I have to be like, look at you. That's how I would feel about this entire show. I agree. I agree.

I love seeing him cry. Oh, my, Look, shout outs to this, to this actor. He does an incredible job of like... He's incredible. He's killing it. His lip isn't trembling, but you can feel it starting to trouble. Yeah, right on the edge.

Like, you don't see him cry, but you know he cried on that bus. He's, he's whole, he's sucking in the tears inside, but they're sitting there. It's so angry at Mommy. He hates Mommy. He hates Mommy. Mommy hates him. They hate each other, but it's been so long since this baby has come home that mommy can't help but love him. Okay.

That audience is out there for heaven, Natalie. Oh, they rules. Okay. Back on El Donnie. It's just fun. like when Anakin cries I was feral for that too so anyway

so should we stick actually you know I like the idea that we we've dispensed with Karin here but we just stick on Aldani with the gang rebels here yeah sounds good you know we get the the walk through the highlands and we get a sense once again which are called the highlands

by the way they're just called the highlands is this shot in Scotland parts of the show were definitely shot in Scotland I remember that the I think that's Scotland I'm going. Ferricks was shot in Scotland. This feels like Scotland to me also. Yeah.

I know this is getting it. It's just called the Highlands. Listeners, let me know if that's Scotland and where I can get me some of that. Because I'm like, let me, let me. I can perfectly picture you like. I want Rob walking around this. Wait, instead of going to the Star Wars Hotel,

we should all go to Scotland together. The Highlands. Let's go. Let's promenade in the long grass. Sounds like a good idea. It's a tie fighter sore. first hit his first one of those hills which like even on film which tends to diminish the effective slope looks brutal um but we also get a sense of and or is again like a quick sense of

danger you know as she's giving him the history of aldani uh you know they're arguing uh about like what the what the mission is um and he notices the the tie fighter patrol about the swoop overhead But the main thing she's driving So good There's really The tie fighter The ties swooping by Them needing to hide

It's so cool To see people scared of tie fighters You know Again we don't have Darth Vader We don't need to get all the way For Darth Vader We can say that Two tie fighters

Is the scariest thing In your week Because it's two tie fighters You know Well especially when you get a sense Of what these people are working with Like she she outlines They're not gonna be happy to see him

Do not like She doesn't want them Having the same reaction That she did When Luthan showed up To drop this guy the doorstep so she's going to come up with a she's going to make it look like that she's

on board with this this is all part of the plan but yeah when we meet her crew they are let's talk about the just the history of what this place is really quick the first little bit which is he's like there aren't people

here how are we undercover and she's like well there used to be 40,000 people here and they are gone now the empire got rid of them and he's like they killed they killed them and she says no they drove them south. There's an enterprise zone in the lowlands, factories, new towns, imperial housing.

Aldani has the unfortunate quality of being close to nothing and not very far away from everything. It's the perfect hub for distribution if one we're trying to take over the galaxy. And so much is happening here in terms of understanding the empire in ways that we don't in the rest of mainstream Star Wars media, the fact that like, oh, empire does not just come and like strip mine your planet or blow it up or occupy you in a vague way what it does is push you into imperial towns and into imperial systems of living and imperial work systems not just work camps though they also have those we know that they also have those but even for again even for people who are supposed to be human subjects of the empire you get

you get your culture completely swiped away and and you get pushed into the mill, right? You get pushed into the imperial system of, you know, we know the empire is capitalistic, right? As far as we know, the empire is capitalistic. You get pushed into that, right? You work for their factories. That's how you get to be a person again. And between that and the little note of, and also this is, this place is good for logistics. This place is a good middle ground area. Empire as Amazon. Empire as Amazon. Empire is logistics, you know, because it is. Logistics is important, and having a show that cares about that, and hasn't yet

stepped on the rake that is, now wait a second, can't you just get anywhere from any way pretty quick without, you know, taking us out of the moment of saying logistics is important is pretty good. Anyway, yeah, tell us about her little crew. Well, I was going to say, I also don't know much about this parallels for this, but to what degree, because this is the story of industrialization as well. is, like, traditional ways of life are upended, like subsequent generations who historically would have taken over,

like, ancestral lands in various places, end up migrating into cities. And you see culture sort of subsumed into that. And to what degree is that, like, there's always a mix of volunteering compulsion, right? Like, for instance, once a factory in an industrial infrastructure shows up in a natural environment, the natural environment is,

changed irrevocably, and in many cases, like, destroyed in some fashions. So in some ways, like traditional ways, it might become untenable, but also it is seductive. This is happening here, right? Which is like, they talk about having damned a great sacred river. So if these people lived in this valley and lived off of that river, which they would have done, that river being damned, not only does it ecologically change everything about that place, it also shuts off a way of life for anybody who lived in that place, you know? And controlling that sort of thing is incredibly important for imperial control. Earlier this year, I read a book about the Métis, which are an indigenous group in Canada.

And a lot of that was about the ways in which corporate and governmental authorities attempted to control things like fishing and hunting as a way of shutting. down not just this one particular group of indigenous folks, but like reining it in and making it productive for the imperial expanse versus for this other way of life. And I feel like there was a, there's a lot of that happening here in the story of the Aldani. But, you know, the thing to remember, too, is like, there will be people for whom it's like, ah, but the empire, look what the empire brought us. Like, I think to it, like, I don't know if it's consciously meant, but I thought of this history reminded me

of a Herzog's character's speech in Mandalorian, where he sort of makes the argument that everywhere the empire goes, it brings improvement. And places like this are places where that's what he would see. And there

would be people there who would also agree with that. But there are clearly those who see the devastation that's inflicted as well and see sort of the future that is being prepared once all this infrastructure is built up and all these people have been sort of like

you know ensconced within its walls yeah and we get we get a we get a chance to meet the crew that he's joining up with which is okay so quick thing Tony Gilroy also the author of also the screenwriter for Proof of Life which is about

faux like shining Shining Path Gorillas, like, you know, doing kidnapping stuff, but a huge part of that movie takes place with, like, rural insurgents in that. This depiction kind of reminded me of that, like, fundamentally, you are dealing with people who traditionally, they are shepherds. They might have been, maybe they've been at war for, you know, 10, 15 years, but, like, they are, they are shepherds. And that's how these folks are disguising themselves.

certainly, but you also get a bit of sense of they might also be the real thing, right? These folks might also just be like typical Highland Aldani and just the last ones, last ones still out there fighting, but we meet Arvel Skeen played by

oh gosh, even Moss Bachrock who, has anyone seen, anyone here seen The Bear? Not yet. It's so funny seeing him in this, because he plays the most Chicago-ass like line cook in the bear.

Really? Oh, it is. I fell off the freaking chair when I saw this guy pop up and he sounds like a completely different dude. That's incredible. But he comes across a sleeping sentry who, you know, they're not under much threat.

They look like shepherds. They look like the part of a century, Nemek, has dozed off. And Skeen sort of warns him, hey, if you pulled shit like this and you worked for Saw Garera it's curtains for you That shit don't fly, yeah

Put your head on a pike for a laugh Right Yeah That's nice She'll just chew you out But like you have to tell her And so it seems like Skeen is like one of her sergeants

In some ways But the whole crew Are not happy To receive a new member of the team They are not buying her I didn't tell you about this guy Because I didn't know if he'd make it, but now he's here.

Good news. Everyone is pissed except a little Nemek, who is the sleeping, the sleeping sentry. He's so dead, dude. There's no way he gets out of this. He does not survive this. He's too cute. He's too cute. He's a

cute guy. He's just trying to save the world. He loves, knowing things. Yes. Like, yeah, he's toast. There's no way. You know, well, well, Andor is being sort of treated by their medic. They sort of have a meeting to figure out, like, how do we feel about this guy?

And I just dig this part. Like one of the other members of the team sort of notes, he's got, what is it? He's got brass. You can sort of feel that. Yeah. And Nemek says, you know, I can tell he's really committed. And again, it just feels like. Couldn't be more wrong.

It feels like a traveling troop of players. Maybe he's deep. Maybe he's right. and he's seeing through all of the hard edges, and he's sensing the heart. Was he Jedi? That's the other question. Yes, Ali.

I thought he was four sensitive. Because they seem real interested in what his read on that guy is. And I'm like, I don't see what dynamic brings to the table here. I'm in. This is what four-scent people are supposed to be. You destroy the Jedi order that this happened. You just have the dude who you trust, who gets good vibes, who understands the situation, and he's like,

When that guy is like, we got to go. You're like, oh, shit. Mammick said we have to go. We got to go. That's it. Nemick says he trusts the dude. You trust the dude. I love it.

Oh, man. I love him. I love this. I love this. Also, he makes cool models. He does, and he cares about that. He cares about them. He's their little prop maker.

Again, they're a theater troupe. He's like, don't touch my model. You'll, it can't bear the weight. And also, if it gets wet, the glue won't hold. Also, the fashion is just good. Everyone with their fabrics and their heavy coats and their sweaters and they're just like all the, it's all so good to me. Agreed. And one of the coolest motherfuckers to show up is Lieutenant Gorn, who like an imperial officer shows up out of nowhere in this.

But he's working with them. Flowing, all black everything. Swagged the fuck out. So much swag in it. Andor. Also, like, I should mention, they just have AK-47s. Oh, sorry, I forgot that part. I'm real curious what those things are going to shoot when it's time to go loud.

Yo, I hope it's bullets. I want them to be slug-throwers. I want them to shoot bullets. That would be wild. Those exist in the setting. Yeah. But they do just look like AK-47s, like, a little bit modified. And it's very, it feels like this show to have, to have, to have.

like the creative decision makers in this show to be like, yeah, they should just basically have AKs. That feels like what they should basically just have. I feel like didn't we see AK-47's pop up somewhere in Clone Wars? I feel like somewhere in that series. I vaguely remember you saying that. Those people were just rocking Kalashnikovs.

Yeah. Uh-huh. So I'm curious if there's precedent for this. But Lieutenant Goren sort of is there. I just search for AK-hyphen thinking I'd find AK-47 in my notes. All I found is notes about Shock T. No one's going to know why I'm mad about shock tea for months Because we already recorded the episode about shock tea Oh my god, they don't know about shock tea

They don't know about shock tea Oh my god Wow I guess you have to keep listening Yeah See you December But So they fill

Andor in on the plant By the way I love that Why is Andor so special he is the most multi-class character in Star Wars. The list of things they list that he can do that back up all, like, they could lose two or three members of this team and Andor can supplant like three of those positions.

He's not going to be an A in all of those things, but he'll be a B minus, maybe a C plus. C plus B minus ain't bad. But his job here is to drive the van. They're going to steal the Imperial payroll that is loaded into what I guess is a real pig of a freighter that doesn't fly for shit. Speaking of pigs, forgot.

Shout-offs to the little alien sheet where they just like... Like extra horns? Yes. They're so cute. The show's so pure. But he's like, you're going to have me fly that freighter

over an area secured by Thai fighters. This is wild. And Goren fills him in on like the master plan, which is that this entire way of life was built around the ceremony for a perfectly regular

atmospheric phenomenon the eye of Aldani which is like a midair hailstorm I guess basically is what it sounds like we're gonna see some shit I think from what they from what they describe

but it is perfectly timed it was you know it was it was reliable It was a huge cultural event for the Aldani before the Empire showed up, and it has largely been forgotten as everyone's sort of been driven into the lowlands. There's not many people who observe it or care, but it certainly sounds like you can't be flying at Tie Fighter when the Eye of Aldani opens up. It basically sounds like a bunch of microparticles in the sky explode, and the sky is just on fire. for some period of time and their plan is to get out

right before the door closes basically and their little beater van and their little U-Haul filled up with the imperial money just get the fuck up into space and have that door close behind you the door of infinite small little particle

explosions and be on your way seems easy just do that but first learn our language and also everything about this freighter you're going to be flying.

I feel like there was some more material they gave him. Some cave systems. Remember they talk about how the empire recognized that like there's this great cave? The imperial garrison is built into a cave system because they recognize that the cave system serves this great. Didn't they call it out as the republic first though?

Didn't they say it was the republic? That would be so funny. I think that's what they said because I remember noting like it was like yeah, they were noting that the cave system has like great storage. capabilities or whatever and then it got repurposed by the imperials but I think it was I see right right right I think they said it was the Republic

that found it first the Republic identified it that makes sense I also just want to note that a lot of these names of places Akhti Amagh a lot of the names have a real Nassm McLean the sacred river there's a lot of Scottish and Irish and Gaelic sounds here which are again places with very long anti-imperial history. You know, there's a, there's a reason why Ireland is such a, while you find so many Irish supporters of Palestine, for instance, and it's a shared history of anti-imperialism and, etc.

And it's like, it's interesting to see them play in this sonic space when you end in the visual space of like, we're in the highlands, we're out here in the hills, you know, for a lot of reasons. And frankly, one of them is, you know, Tony Gilroy's a white dude. And it's like, all right, let's figure out how we're going to tell our anti-imperial story without it feeling really gross and weird and appropriative. And I don't know what Tony Gilroy's history is to the Irish or Scottish history of dealing with the British Empire or current history. thereof. I don't want to say that this is just like, oh, yeah, white stuff is white stuff. But white stuff is not black and brown stuff, and it's not ongoing stuff in the same way, right?

And I think that there was something slick about that, that I, slick does not mean good necessarily, but it's like, I'm calling attention to it because I think that's what's happening here. We want to tell a story about an empire and about occupation imperialism, but also we aren't going to make, we're not going to use fake, quote unquote, African sounds in the names, but we still want it to feel relatable to our historical, you know, history of imperialism. Is that preferable? I don't know. But I think that that's what's happening here. And I wanted to take a second to identify it. Mm-hmm. Part of, part of, is it preferable will be how does it shake out and how do we see this stuff as it goes forward? You'll know we didn't get any more

flashbacks about Canari in this episode, right? That has been sidelined for now as we move here. And I also just, I should say one more thing. The director of this episode, Susanna White, did anybody else look into what Susanna White has directed?

Rob, have you watched the excellent Bleak House adaptation from 2005? No. It's so good. That's fantastic. She also did the Jane Eyre adaptation in 2006. And then I know from Generation Kill.

And I was going to say, and then, of course, Generation Kill, which she did, like, half of. Underrated show. I haven't seen it since it came out, but I liked it a lot when it came out. And I feel like this is somebody who's, like, deep in the British television industry. And so that started to click certain things in place in terms of the signifiers being used here. This is not a British production, but it has a lot of British character actors. It has a lot of qualities from, I mean, you talked last week, Rob, about, was it Hine who had previously been in Pride and Prejudice, the adaptation? So, like, it's interesting to see the material connections in production here.

Yeah, I mean, they're using tons of UK locations. The space bus station, the Karn goes through, sadly, people were pointing out to me that that's the McLaren technology center where the F1 team is based out. Oh, that's so funny They're futuristic corporate HQ So yeah So Andrew's got to hit the books Before the big heist Yeah, I just wanted to correct myself

They didn't They did not mention the public They said the Empire claimed it But they said it happened 13 years ago Right Which is like where are we here At this point versus The Empire versus the

Yeah Everyone just knows Tarkin loves this shit Like Yeah It was a Kate network Oh yeah Man, Tarkin would be, you know, he'd be beside himself. It's interesting how much time they spend painting this as a land taken, a land conquered,

a land that was inhabited where there are rivers that are considered sacred and are described that way by outsiders. And like that, the way that she describes it is the Imperials claimed this for the emperor. like it's a very like territorial very like like land imperial expansion like we are accumulating space we are accumulating you know and pushing obviously people out like the the aldani are still on the planet they're in a essentially a relocation zone um south i think they said it was like somewhere south of where they were um but uh you know and and and their numbers have have dwindled in terms of who comes back to view this like great meteor shower in the sky um so you can see like

ramifications of of like relocation and enforced migration like having ramifications on like cultural like uh practice and you know that displacement um having like a real effect where people aren't going to do the thing that they'd been doing for thousands of years every three years. Yeah, I just, I just, I just went and peaked for a second to be like, hey, how, how, what's, what's popping with this stuff? And the first thing I learned was, I wanted also see, like, is this whole stuff just shot in the Scottish Highlands?

Answer is yes to the degree that when, um, Vell shows and or a base for what the next, where the heist is going to happen. that's a real power station that's that so like I bet they just go shoot at this dam this high-john oh wow the second thing is like if you start reading about the highland clearances of the 1750s of the 1860s it's just this right it's just it is just literally the people in the highlands being driven south into the lowlands to take part in new industry in fishing in fishing and agriculture and then in in from there a new development the new developments in

industry. So, yep, here we go. There we go. Torn from the past. Is this the shit that Rob Roy is about? Anyway, so we leave, we leave Andor hitting the books. Man, I have rarely felt such sympathy for, like immediate sympathy for Star Wars character. Then when he's just trying to get his little bite of food and it's late at night, it's cold. and they're like, you need to do all this by morning.

He's like, can I eat? And she's like, yeah, you can eat. But you need this known by morning. I'm going to go take first watch. Peace. Like, we end the shit right now. Like, eat your food. Too fucking bad.

Can't do this. Listen, 200 grand. I'll study. Shit. Yeah. Yeah. Make some flash cards. You have to retain.

I know. That's the problem. It's hard. Don't worry. You got this ancient iPad. You got this. fucking the Shika slate

book you got the Shika Slate Slate can we just talk about the Datapad respect zone that this episode

had because all of them looks so amazing it looks so amazing the like two screen imperial ones

where they were like looking through databases it's also big bulky but also just like no buttons

four buttons on it like not flashy like it's not it's fucking dense it's not

I'm being entertained by this it's like informational babies ain't touching shit my cat isn't like oh no cocoa melon here uh uh uh uh um anyway

can we now that we've reached the end of Andor's uh you know plot for this episode can we zoom backwards to Luthin getting dressed yes please all time because

this the score that like this is this was I was my I the trembling hands putting on the fingers the like the stuttered running hands through the hair it's just so it makes you wonder how long has he been wearing this costume how long has this been a character has it always been a character is this a is this a persona he has departed from like how much of this is this is It was just, I had so many questions. I love how often Andor allows us to be quiet and sit with a moment and sit with a character and just observe and watch them.

There's a certain set of like visual cues that happen here that we've seen elsewhere in Star Wars, right? The reveal of a door where we didn't know there was a door and then a white space beyond and then, oh, look, someone is going to change who they are. the machines fall down and reveal tools like that's like Darth Vader putting on his helmet zone right but here it is a guy getting ready to go to Khorasan a guy getting ready to become a different version of himself slowly washing his face and putting on the the heated cloth right putting on his wig adjusting it just just right you know using the the tools at his disposal like finding the right robe and all the doing going through all of the steps of transformation but I love that re-application of these technological spaces into it is still technological it is still technique it is still him

putting on his disguise putting on the face that you need to wear when you're in public and do it he does like the little he does his little like that gesture is like the two things it's haunting honestly the way again like we're playing

this is an actor getting ready for a role we're seeing that like this is his pressing them and we're leaning into that. Like is this Scarskart method? We don't know. It's interesting, like, to what degree is the text reflective of the reality. But also that, that pose he strikes as he finds the character. He has to find that, like, air of amusement of everything soft, nothing aggressive about

him whatsoever, utterly unconcerned. And once he finds it, he strides out of the scene with purpose. Swaggy. Yeah. Swaggy. Absolutely. love a standout Star Wars scene like across across years like really really really memorable um just watch that don't watch don't watch anything else just watch

that part I mean watch the rest it's really good but like just watch this for me please and the next time we see him he is in his his place of business getting ready to hold court mm-hmm And again, I love the, um, so yeah, they had that exchange about, she's got a new driver. And the question is, Shandrelan, or, and he goes, I would assume, or his assistant does. But when when Madma walks in, she explains it's her husband's day of days, and she turns not to the woman who works with Luthon, she turns to the driver and says, it's a Shandrelan custom. You're right. And it is, to let them know, yes.

That's a great detail. He is not of me. He is not one of it. I did not catch that. That's great. Yeah, it is her raising the alarm that, like, not that he would have just trusted automatically that this guy was okay,

but she's making very clear, not my driver. Yeah. And then, yeah, this is a gallery of stuff, relics and art and weapons from around the galaxy that have found their way here. It doubles this, that, like, that aside to him double,

like we're playing in two spaces. It's like, you're not of our world in multiple ways. You're not of our world because we're secretly rebellion advocates and are working in rebellion, but you're also not of our world because this is luxury. I mean, the fact that the driver literally says, I couldn't afford anything here.

I can't, I can't, the, you know, helper approaches him and is like, do you want to, like, look around? And he's like, I can't, like, look at, you know, what the fuck. Coins where you go. Yeah, but I just love that it's playing in two spaces. One, like the, you know, the factual, like, reality of class distinction and separation here. And then also the fact that there is another world that you are not a part of of. And the entire affect that Luther strikes here, like, for, like, for one, like, he's got all these antiquities.

also like symbols of just the length of history like empires have risen and fallen like their bones are here but also that that little that little unctuous little speech he gives her where this is a place where time stands still there's no and of course we know he's a man for whom there is nothing but urgency

everything you've seen is just like the throttles pushed all the way to the stops like everything has to happen now we have to kill the emperor now we have to destroy And the disguise is someone for whom nothing is rushed. There is no hurry. What, me? Worry?

And for whom the wonders of the galaxy ought be sold to the highest bidder as a little gift for your little custom here. Like literally like, oh, here's an Utapalun cudgel that we had. It's ancient from the eighth Archaum settlement or whatever. this is for your different now you can give this as a gift for your still acceptable cultural custom is and like yeah that guy would never be the head of the rebellion right that guy would never be pissed off about exactly this thing right it's good cover it's a good cover great cover makes you wonder how he got into it though I want to know a story how did you how did you get this set up that's another great line from the other stuff that we skipped was and or finally asked him Val like so what's the deal with that guy she's like you should ask him when you had the chance and also crucially he is not to be named like nobody

Bell has not told anyone else about Lutheran either so like crucially he is in do not speak about Lutheran do not put no do not well

Bix knew he was a contact but it's clear that actually he went to Bix to find Andor right you have the entire five Like, Bix didn't accidentally, like, oh, I've got someone you should meet. He led it around to that. It's interesting that he comes not into Scott, like, because obviously his relationship with Bix, he's probably been buying shit for the store from her, right?

I mean, no, because not a place like that. She does ship scout salvage, not ancient artifact salvage. Though they say that anything worth having, if you can't find it on pharynx. Yeah, I don't think there's, I don't think she's going to salvage like the equivalent of like a Spanish galleon on pharix. Right. No. But yeah, I am so curious, is the collector the base identity? Is that where you start?

Because I almost assume it is. Because otherwise a guy like this, he's so established, he has to have deep roots. And so I kind of wonder, is this guy radicalized antiquities dealing? I hope so That's very fun Although you know who else We're big into collecting antiquities The Jedi

The Sith artifacts Yeah this does have Obiwan Kenobi loves all the different cultures Of the galaxy vibes It's true Obi-on would have a field day in this shop Are you kidding? Obi-Wan loves the store

He came here for Steve Yeah he's shopped around Just absolutely unbearable as he stands at checkout, like, just talking through his inability to side between the Udipoan Qadul. Do you mention Luton on the other side of that conversation with Obi-Wan?

Just be like, shut the fuck up, dude. Just pick the fucking thing you want. This is why you all got got. So, but, so they contrive a reason to have a private conversation, and this is where we get caught up on. So, hey, how's the Senate been doing since Palpatine

gave his big speech at the end of, Revenge of the SIF. And the answer is it's kind of the same except hellish, more hellish. You know, she says there's spies everywhere in the Senate. My assumption is, a lot of them are senators.

She said new faces everywhere. In the banks, there's new faces. And she's been bank rolling him, and now she can't because, like, her funds are being monitored. But she alludes to, she's found an ally. And Lufin is not ready to, like,

like merged, like, rebel cells. I want to know who it is so bad. Is it Saw or is a bail? I feel like she would have known it's bail, right? I was going to say it's bail. Because it has to be somebody. Yeah, they go back because they were part of the clique. They were part of the Padman click.

Bail has to be in it already. But it can't be Saul. Like, he knows about Saul, because isn't the partisan front, Saul Guerrera's thing? Right. Also, Mon Martha wouldn't be talking to Sal Guerrera in a way that Luther wouldn't have access. Also, the problem is money flow. The problem is money flow.

So it's got to be someone within the Senate or some type of government baking. What if it's fucking, what's his name? The fool? What is his name? The bank guy. Rush Clovis. Rush Clovis. You haven't watched the next set of episodes from season six, huh?

No. He's probably fine He's probably fine I've watched the video But now I'm pretty sure I know How the Rush Glovis arc is going to end You let me tell you this You have no fucking idea

That arc is wild The shit that happens in that arc is wild So Oh my God It's so funny Yeah I am so curious as to who the secret Austin's dying So bad

That's okay You've never seen Okay, it's fine So Some toxic behavior in those episodes Hey, speaking of toxic behavior When mama comes home Oh my God

Okay Wait wait Wait wait You get a clue About what type of husband He's going to be Because she says I don't want to buy him another weapon

Another weird weapon Nothing wrong with that Trying to broaden his horizons How my immediate thought was like Oh no Does she have a Malkatana husband and she does. And she kind of does.

And she does. But I, I love the sequence of her returning home, like, opening up the, like, she has so much fear. But you feel like it does not matter what is up against her. She has resolve. But it's just, it's like, it's very, it's so harrowing. Like a lot of this like This like impending threat

Impending doom is just so heavy Throughout these like quiet moments Well it's like It's so It hadn't occurred to me I was like that her husband Might not be on the same page that they don't share At all

A similar perspective on what's happening We've seen so many relationships where people are on the same page In Star Wars in general So you know Why would have they and and Anakin You could argue, though, at places they, at least superficially align on, like, what side are we on? Yeah, yeah. He, like, I mean, he obviously is like, I like fascism.

But right now, fascism is the Republic. And she's like, well, I love the Republic too. So, but, and also I'm ready to die. But this fucking guy. But Perrin is. In his kimono. Well, okay. Quick pivot.

Allie, the Chorusant fashion plates. What are you feeling the costuming has been putting down here? Because like, okay, so like you, Mon Martha's apartment is like... Gotta stop calling her Mun Mothra. Mom Rother. That's the guzzal monster. Ooh, Mothra.

Oh, Mothra. Angry. Mothra is the big moth monster. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Okay, so her apartment is all of these like... would win, Monmacher or the Zillow Beast?

Or Mace Windu, Wendow. You got it wrong, right. All right, so, I've got my issue of Vogue. Of course not Vogue. It's all these, like, whites and creams and everything. Yeah. He's wearing this, like, he's wearing a light purple robe with, like...

It's blue, isn't it, like, a sky blue? Oh, yeah, yeah, light blue with, like, um, this, like, khaki color. like closed robe which seems very recognizably Jedi It seems Jedi-esque It's so Jedi Plus the little like hair tie Plus he's got the top knot on

Yeah And it just makes me think like Especially we can see He's supposed to be like the more like quote unquote Like right leaning of the two of them Like is there Is this there this cultural shift Amongst people on Correscent

Where it's like depowering the Jedi By stealing their soul? taking the aesthetics of their uniform and making it this like fashion statement. Yeah, I could see that. It's like some hips or shit. Like, like, fuck the Jedi, but like we, like their clothes went off.

Well, I also had the thought of who cares about those guys anymore? Is this all high cast Nabu fashion that's been adapted to? I could score some. Oh, yeah. Because there's, there's, like, because, you know, it's a scene that gets cocked. in the movie, but when we see when we see

Padme's father I think he's dressed similarly. Although, you know, actually, Bail also wears the fucking like giant shoulder pad. He does do that. Like, this truly looks so much more like, and also

this is just, I went to see the Mets exhibit on kimono and so now my brain is commoto pill. But it looks so much like a kimono. This looks so much like a fancy, which, and also just like a robe for a rich layabout

I get the impression he doesn't do much and he likes it that way right his big line is he says to her must everything be so boring and sad

and it's like he's so sick of her little liberal reforms because she is huge liberal senator energy listen good for her in the background she's funding the militant

Revolutionary. Yeah, shout outs. But it really does feel like the vibe is that she cares about people like these refugees who aren't being fed well. But, but, you know, you're going to invite the people, you're going to invite the people who like fucked up their shit to our dinner table. You're going to, you're going to invite Sly more to our dinner table. There's, there's nothing about the way that she comes home that feels like she's coming home and comfort. I'm going to do this one more time. but this time i'm going to have some just a little bit of additional you're going to invite sly more to our dinner table and i've now linked the image of who sly more is who the barren who's always hanging with palpatine oh so they get as you breathing their shit at your dinner party i get i don't i don't i guess he always heads out crashes their social scene. Everyone just has to get like The Embarman's just weird. Imagine Anakin

comes. Imagine Anakin's at the dinner party. Imagine. The Embarons couldn't breathe on their home planet but they can breathe on Corrissot just fine. Let's go like question mark. Maybe that wasn't their home planet.

So you got the impression it wasn't. But also the clones and the Jedi could breathe there just fine. Yeah. So also slime more is some sort of force witch probably. so yeah well and that's the other thing his argument is these people are fun

like his whole the scene is just so brutal like this marriage is just stick a fork in it it's done she walks in he's setting up the banquet I what banquet and he's like I added to your calendar like the levels of passive aggression

well you're so busy I just added it to your calendar and probably unsaid like you always tell me to and then He's like, who's on the guest list? And he doesn't tell me, he's like, go, just, it's there. You read it yourself. Just the way they're, like, needling each other. But especially him, just, like, constantly needling.

And she sees that, yeah, her political enemies are at this thing. But you know what? They're fun. They're cool. And it's for the governor of Hannah, his old regimental mate. You aren't a clone. The fuck did you do during the war? You played dress up.

This is suddenly a vision of if Padman and Anakin stayed together. And it's miserable Because she is going behind him To fund the rebellion And he's wearing his robes around Around the penthouse And being like, I don't have to work anymore We got rid of the Jedi

I just have to host dinners That's what Palpatine told me to do And his buddies are all members Of the vizier's private chamber What's the vizier? What's the vizier? Who? Who?

Who? And then I want to know as she's just like done with this she'll get through the dinner but like don't fuck with me parent he's like I heard you got a little gift for me and I'm like out the window

I hope she poisons you we do know who the viziris oh is a devilma'sameda it's the other guy who's always hanging with tentacle head tentacle head big corn stuff oh we're gonna get a fucking alien bro the crew is coming

These are the evilest dudes How are you going to tell me Sheeves not in this show How is he's going to be better than the hype That's going to come to dinner That's going to be the twist That's going to be the twist That's going to be the twist

He's going to show up He's going to walk through the door And be like Ah Mom mafam So nice of you to have Wait you just turned to Gilbert Godfrey Yes

he is he's going to sit across from her I don't want to watch that man because oh remember he told her he's like you're going to have to sit the boring end of the table yeah I'm going to be at the fun end with the emperor with the emperor

of the galaxy we might actually get a scene the tops denethor eating the tomatoes for sheer like uh masticatory nightmare fuel if we get the emperor If we get sheave eating anything in sheave mode, yeah.

He will come. He's too fucked up. He's too frog mode now, right? Yeah, he's too frogged out. But why wouldn't he want to be out with the fellas? His fellows are coming through. His fellows are coming through, come out with the fellas. That's fun.

I think he should go. I think he should take a night off. Go to dinner. Take a night off. Come hang. Go to Mon Motho's path. Well, and he can rest easy in his leisure mode because the civil servants of the ISB work late in the night.

fighting turf wars yep so we get so Dedra realizes that the Starpath unit is her way into the Ferrex case but also yeah so this is where she refers to it could be

tied to the steer guard thing I feel like we don't fully yet know what the steer guard thing because I assumed it's just Andor shows up Bogart's a valuable thing and leaves I'm starting to wonder if there's more to it because it also seems like is she solving something with Steergard or is she covering something up

that happened there? Yeah, I can't quite fully read her yet. Is she climbing the ladder or is she a deep cover rebel? Right? Like, is she trying to like, is she trying to recover that thing because she needs it to give to the rebellion

as such as it is? I don't think so, because we're going to get a taste of what is her whole, like, what's her whole bag at the ISB? She's arguing there is a rebellion and nobody else sees it. All right, you're right. You're right, you're right, you're right.

Which would be, I mean, wheels within wheels. Wheels with wheels. But, so she sees the Star Path unit as a way into this case, but currently that belongs to Supervisor Blevon, who's the one we saw dismissing the... Tyler Blevins. That's not shit. But yes. Finally, Ninja has showed up. In Fortnite, it could

happen. Bluffins versus Blevins. They could make a Blevins' Fortnight skin and you would be Blevins versus Blevins. Oh, maybe that's why he doesn't like dealing with a woman at the ISB. I have too much respect

for my wife to work cases with you. Oh, my God. No, thank you. I wish you luck. with your investigation, but I am not interested in an affair. No, you cannot come into my territory. So, but the relationship between them is poisonous.

He immediately, he immediately calls out. He says, you know, you should take a moment to steady the ladder before trying to climb it and she shoots back with, I'm not here for career advice, already implying, he's dead. don't know it yet. She's going to walk right past him. But he holds the line and he's like, I'm not letting you in on this case. And so she

escalates it to Partigaz who reveals kind of the skilled bureaucrat that he is. He hears their cases out and sides with blood him. The senior officer, the more

like more of a typical line officer. and backs his play and then has the side conversation with uh dedra unpacking uh like that she is there on kind of a trial basis that she's a different kind of ISB Asian and I can't figure out is it because she's a young woman is because she's from criminal investigations or is it because she's not a high class like is ISB like because like again like you said he's kind of Donish You know, British intelligence was dominated by like oxbridge, like oxbridge types. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, ultimately to its, to its detriment. But I'm curious if that is actually the diversity higher that she represents, that like, this is the, we're going to trial. What if someone not from the right kind of breeding is brought into ISB? Well, he says specifically that she, like, as he's as he's kind of tearing her down and then building her back up he's like you had a report that was supposed to get in today like where the fuck is that you need to do that um and he's like he says what i see in you essentially is has all the makings of a far superior career um but you are meant to be competent and tucked away that is why we are bringing in officers like you so it seems

like this is like a conscious recruitment movement of bringing in the in crowd like what what's his name paragratz um paragratz paragaz partgas knows that there are there's an old regime and the new regime and i think the old regime is all these complacent like oh yeah we're just uh yeah we need money for more security whatever that means and then there's people who are going to help like truly instill fascism across

the galaxy and maintain it and seek out you know anti-imperial sentiment and squash it and I think Deirdre is representative of that latter thing it's just

I'm curious yeah what you're saying Rob about who are they identifying as being as being the perfect person for that role I definitely suspected it was more her investigative background

and her criminal her basically coming from law enforcement instead of from whatever wherever the rest of intelligence that had come from but mostly that came from my feeling that Star Wars isn't going to do anything explicit about gender, right?

I mean, let's be clear, Star Wars has always been doing something about gender. Princess Leia is a character written against type, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But like, it would be shocking to me if we got a show that in which gender was recognized as a real thing that people in the world of Star Wars had opinions about. Like, I can't imagine people being sexist. I can't imagine people saying sexism exists. Do you know what I mean? And that would be wild to me. I can't imagine this being a class thing with her, too.

I just don't know enough. And I'm not reading enough into her dialect to pick up whether she hasn't said enough or enough big things from me be like, okay, they're trying to make her sound not as. Yeah, she's an obviously different other than being a woman. And what does prompt it is that, like, she basically argues I'm playing a hunch. and he's like, we don't do hunches here. Which is surprising because I feel like

it definitely could have gone the other way where it's like, oh no, you're an intuition person like we do like there are certain people we trust with that type of, yeah. He seems like the sort of dude who would live for hunches. Like maybe it's just his hunches, but yeah. I was surprised that he seemed to,

like I get it, but I was surprised based off we are doctors we kill germs to go to we only deal with factual information do not go off hunches those don't seem that contradictory to me like doctors don't scientific thinking is not about hunches right quote unquote when I said I put that in in don't get like yeah it is for house right but like the rise of science and and the air of the Enlightenment and the move towards rationality is hand in hand with the spread of imperialism, right?

Like that specific... The type of vibes-based counterintelligence he describes. I never understood him as being vibes-based. Yeah. I think he is about having spy networks out there that tell you where you need to do your incisions. And just see the patterns better and more...

100%. I don't think that he's saying like, when he gave that speech before and pushed back on what she said, it was because it was what it said in the book, not because I think that he thinks that those methods are wrong. I think that he sees himself and what they do as not being about, when he says that they're not about security,

what he means is they're not about like maintaining the status quo by kicking down a door and shooting people. They're about maintaining the status quo by identifying the one specific thing you have to get rid of in order to maintain everything. In other words, we're not going to go do what Primor Security just did, right? What Prima's security did is security, right? What we would have done would have been eliminate the one problem there to keep that clean, right?

Or identified where the sickness came from to begin with. But I don't think that disappeared and or his whole family would we hanged. 100%. Yeah. The next day, Marva who, you know, or Marwa, whatever, Marwa. Marwa? Marva. Marva. Marva. Marva.

Okay. I don't work with someone named Marva. So this has gotten very. So the other thing that strikes me here, though, is like her theory. like the thing that she's chasing here is that there's been a wave of incidents that she says all imply that there's groundwork

being laid in a lot of ways a lot like the sergeant speech in the last tree of episodes oh there's fomenting out there sir there's a bit of that here where she's like I'm seeing a lot of signs that there's material being

taken, there are groups coordinating similar methods like there's a rebellion in the wind and the funny thing is it actually seems like there's not yet like it depends on what you say what we think is happening with Mon Mothema and Rail and

Luthan sorry she was his first name Luthen and and bail theoretically and and like is if money is changing hands and supplies are changing hands between Saul's partisans and some other

rebellion group then the very first stages of that are happening, you know? Or if both of them are being funded by the same group, that's enough to say that there's a connection, I think. What there isn't is, there hasn't been a sit down between, as far as we know, Saul Guerrera and Monmouthma, right? I just, actually, I don't know if that's happened yet. I know that's a thing that happens at some point in the fiction, because I know that Mon Mothma and Sal Guerrera aren't buds because she's, you know, kind of a lib. But, like, that's, that conversation feels like it's on its way because of the money

connections behind the scenes. I guess we'll see. Yeah. I mean, like, if she's wrong, she's wrong by being ahead of the curve by what looks like weeks. Right. I think the thing that she's, this is what bugs me about this more is, it does feel like there is activity that she's identified.

She's saying there is a pattern. Why is it that horror suggestion of coordinated activity across a number of sectors? Why is that treated like it's... Arbitrary, yeah. Repeated methods. If you're in intelligence, someone's like, oh, yeah, they're running the same scam. They're hitting us the same way over and over again. How is that not worth interest?

Yeah, I think that's where I got confused. Because it does sound like she's presenting... Yeah, and I think the hundred. is maybe what motivates her to seek out more pattern to like to find more examples of this I think that's why she wants to extend into ferrics like that's like she she's following a beat essentially where there's there is evidence coming through um but unfortunately but I think that's where the disconnect really landed for me in terms of like it not lining up with what I would have would have assumed for I can't say his name right the first time for part of gats would be like a oh like this is a motivated officer this is like this is someone that you know is is going to seek things out without being prompted but maybe that's just maybe that ambition is more of a threat because it's harder to control if that makes sense, like maybe you don't

want someone looking unprompted into things. Like Karn, for example. Karn is literally fucking fired for doing this exact thing that it seems like Deirdre is going to like do on her, oh shit, Deirdre's

about to pull a Karn, you can tell. It's like she's about a certain looking into things that she's not going to have authorization for in an attempt for prove herself. I'm almost certain she's going to go get those go yeah I can feel it I think they'd be a very funny duo like I'm so desperate the energies are just

cataclysmic yeah Star Wars needs it's the dropout is that it is that our episode yeah only two hours two hours look dense rich with meaning and layers it's true it's true I'll cut it a little bit in the edit, but we'll still be up there.

Yeah. I hate that there's another week until the show. I know. What the hell? I'm not used to this. They'll probably get to the heist. They better get to that dinner party. I think they'll get to the heist and maybe they won't get to the eye of Aldani or whatever.

You know, maybe that'll be just at the edge. But we'll see some dinner. I don't think we'll get to heist. I think we'll get dinner. Here's why I think we're going to get to both of those things. I don't know if we're going to why I think we're going to get to both of these. because this next episode and the next episode after that

are directed by the same person and at that point it becomes clear to me that this is a three episode arc it's an arc I think that we'll get to the heist it won't finish and the finish of it will be next time maybe I'm wrong though maybe the fact that it's three

episodes is exactly the thing that's like it won't wrap well either way we will be back next week to see whatever however all this unfolds in the next episode of Andor, if you want to get our Q&As, which at the moment, I think, you know, are all Clone Wars focused. Plus, we've made some references to stuff we, an audio book about

Duku that we all listen to as part of our Q&A series. You can get access to that at patreon.com slash civilized or, you know, you can just go there if you want to support the show. Until next week, please rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. but really, like, especially if it's Apple. And remember to keep asking the important questions. Like, where's Brasso? Where is Brasso? Where's Brasso?

Brasso fans unite. I miss B2 emo. Oh, B2 wasn't in this either. Are we going to get some like imperial boots on the ground in Phoenix now? Well, like, I feel like Marva's going to leave. No, I don't think so. Marva's going to go on one last adventure, B2 Emo and Marv. suiting up one last time.

I think we'll get more of this show. I just don't think we're going to get one any of this arc, you know? I don't know. Maybe the the heist needs a droid. It for sure does. Hey, everybody, I know I was here late, but let me DM my mom real quick.

My mom's going to come over. My mom's going to drop off my lunch. A little. Did you charge him? Did you bring the external battery? Can he fly the ship? Do you have an extension cable?

I know we're supposed to be done here, but did anybody read the, like, the sadness on Andor when he's, like, talking to Lutherans, like, updated droid? Okay, so he was not Lutheran. When I talked a Protestant's droid? It seems like he was like, damn, my droid's old. Yeah, I did feel that. Where he looks at the stick shift, he looks at the flight controls, and the droids just kind of looks at him. It's just like, yeah, okay. Or like the eyeball.

He's like, all right, I won't go anywhere. I know you're going to stop. Yeah, that's the other part is the ship is a droid, and it's like, don't. I'm not flying for you. you. I'm not flying for you. That's a show.

That's a show. Bye-bye. Okay, bye-bye. Two glorious hours of context. We're going to be. ...and... ...this...

...to... ...the... ...the... ...and...