A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - 96: Dark Force Rising Pt. 1 (Ch. 1 - 10)

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

There's good news and then there's great news. Good news is stuff like "Within a few chapters, we meet an entirely new sort of weirdo in Dark Force Rising." Good news is "In these chapters we realize that Luke and Lando have impeccable chemistry." Good news is the phrase "Senator Palpatine's Advisor." Great news? Well. Great news is: "Natalie Watson has returned to the podcast. Next Time:  Dark Force Rising (Chapters 11 - 21) Show Notes Jason Alexander Passes the Mafia Test Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Ricardo Contreras (@a_cado_appears) Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)    

Let us return once more to a more civilized age, a Star Wars podcast. I'm Rob Zakeney, joined by Alia Kampura, Austin Walker, and back with us once again. Natalie Watson. I'm back. That's what they say in these, in these. Yeah, in Star Wars. It's a classic line. They come back.

I'm coming back. I'm thinking I'm back I'm thinking I might be back I might be back. That's what happens every time Obi-Wan reappears in a vision he says I'm thinking I might be back and then he leaves again

forever. Keanu's Obi-Wan Kenobi is a very funny idea. See there's so many this is why we should be allowed to start recasting things just start maybe that's how they're going to get there. They're just going to remake they're going to remake the the trilogies.

Mm-hmm. And that's going to tear the bandit off for recaster. Oh, that's going to be like, this is the remake timeline. Mm-hmm. Obi-1 is Keanu Reeves.

And everyone's going to be like, woo. I mean, the thing is, what they would do right now is if they just remade a new hope, they would just have, you wouldn't do Obi-Wan, right? They would just reshoot it.

Yeah, for sure. Shot for shot. It would be miserable. It would be terrible. It would be torture. It would be so bad. They would do the, Obi-Wan Vader

confrontation on the Death Star and he'd break the mask open again for what would now be the third time. Just so we can see Hayden Christensen again. I also don't know that like I would be down with like Tom Holland being

like Luke. I feel like that just wouldn't do it for me. No. What about? Or shall that feels like the only two like we need some sort of a young intense but like could be the the the farm boy next door now there's got to be another since we can't but we have it we have a broken young actor pipeline so we do like we just it would just be like we got to go with someone bankable we do my mouth is dry from the lack of sauce Wow, so true. Truly the worst timeline

if this comes to fruition. I hope we didn't just speak it into existence. Yeah. But if we did, we are as always supported by you, our listeners, by patreon.com slash civilized. So head over there if you'd like to support the show and help us continue to speak things into existence, sometimes here and sometimes on our Q&A episodes

and our various other special editions that we might have accidentally spoken one show out of existence. I don't think that's our fault, though. We said we were keen to see them continue with the apparel. I was ready for miraculous. They were finally on to some ideas there. They were starting to cook,

and then they shut down the kitchen. I apologize for not having hope. That one's on me. We'd only had hope, but we would all have gone differently. Kevin Kennedy was like, they're starting to talk me around on. And then Allie opened my mouth and that was it. If Ali doesn't like it.

Make a Halloween movie. There's still time. So, Natalie, I have to, because we're going to continue with the Air to the Empire trilogy. And you were not with us for. I was not. Air to the Empire. It was. Yeah.

Sorry to jump. Were you following along with us? Were you listening to us while you were going to have to? I actually listened, I listened to the podcast for the first time. And I was like, we make, well, at that point, I was not on it. But like, your spirit continued. Yeah, this is a really good podcast about Star Wars. It was so entertaining.

I laughed. I raged. I, I just, and, and, um, I just, I had so many questions about choices and decisions and, and when, and what happens when you choose to do things when it comes to, uh, some characters and who they are. And also, um, how, how one chooses to voice certain characters, I thought was really fascinating. One thing I want to talk about up top is it took y'all so long, so far too way longer than it would have unless I, if I had not been, yes, exactly, to clock talent card

as, yeah, as Honda Onaka. Yeah. But I think he's, I think he has so much more. There's something he says today that Honda could never fucking say. Oh, 100%. 100%. More swag. I'm having a great time with TalenCard. But the voice acting in the audio book, the moment I heard the, it reverberate through my speakers, I was like, oh, my God, this is where Honda came from. So that was one thing I needed to air out at the top.

The other thing I wanted to talk about is why is Mara Jade like this? We have a whole trilogy to find out. Like book two, like we're like many people are asking. She's just so so mysterious. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. Don't perceive me. But also.

If you don't perceive me, I'm going to kill you with my evil vibes. And who could say why I have such a, you know, true deep hatred for a young Luke Skywalker? If only we knew why. If only we could tell. If only we knew why, I know now why, I guess. We've made, we've finally made it there. Because, yeah, that's my question is, what do you think of, in general, the presentations of these characters so far? Not looking ahead to Dark Force Rising, which we're talking about today, but through, and also, wait, did you go back and read or did you just listen to us summarize?

I listened to y'all summarize, and I listened to parts of the audiobook. Okay, cool. Yes, this makes sense. And I read some summaries online, so I know, I know the gist of what happened. Well, Wikipedia ain't doing summaries. You could basically read the book in the time it takes you to read a Wikipedia summary of anything It's astonishing It's like these people never these people a precee

They never heard of it no a summary and encapsulation Absolutely not I was disappointed to not find some solid spark notes for for the book But I Yeah I thought it was like an interesting place to to pick up the story I I I had to remind, like, I think keeping in mind the context in which it came out is, was really crucial to understanding the characterization of some of the cast here, especially between Luke and Leah and Han. It just, it was without everything else that was, without everything else that was,

we now know, especially like in prequel stuff. I really appreciated something that you all kept reminding the audience of is that like the Clone Wars were still unwritten at this point. Like we had no idea what the Clone Wars meant. And so that I thought was really fascinating just to have so much in the dark around, in history around these books. So, and how much also came out of these books. like how much of kind of eventual developments in canon and in EU stuff

actually find themselves having their first sort of mentions in these books. The one thing I will say is I don't understand what the fuck is going on with Sabayoth, and I continue to not understand, like, what the fuck is the point of him? Like, he seems to have absolutely jack shit to do. But maybe I'm just, maybe I lost the plot a little bit with him. I'm understanding that he's a clone of a Jedi that did exist that was a advisor, an advisor to... Well, we'll get to that. Because that's new.

That's today's right. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Anyway, yeah, so Sabiaf is one figure who I can't really... I know he's important to Thron because Thron is promising him that, you know, Leia's pregnant with the twins and that she'll give him her twins so that he can raise a new... Do you have doing a lot of work there? You know, hearing it said back out aloud really underscores how fucking weird. it is. It's so weird

so that he can like make a new order of dark Jedi I guess um and he just everyone just wants someone to hang out with everyone is just lonely as shit in this world space is big and empty

you know that's kind of it in a way this is why this is why throng came back he was like this Pellion dude though I think he and I could click like he's not as smart as me right but like we just hang I could tell them about art, and then we could, like, invade some planets together. Yeah.

You know? So, there's a question I was going to ask about heir to the empire, but it's gone now. I'm like, Sabaoth here. I'm just like, oh, I can't hold on that flickering ember of, of, this is why you'll never be a threat to Thron. No, you can't, long-term planning, ability to hold on to a thought. It's definitely not like spite and simmering anger might have. actually let me have a through line. Well, we'll get to that.

We will. So, yeah, we, so when, when we left off Air to the Empire, we left our heroes at Sluis Van Shipyards, having just foiled Grand Admiral Throne's audacious attempt to steal an armada of Republic warships using Lando Calrissians missing mole miners. Quick thinking from Lando prevented the Empire from getting the ships they were after, but at the cost of effectively crippling them all by having the mall. miners, just tunnel straight through the ships from hall to hall. As if that weren't bad enough, Leah brought news that Admiral Akbar had been arrested on suspicion of treason in the wake of the

attack. Dark Force Rising uses the gang's attempt to clear Akbar's name as the point of departure of a series of adventures that once again scatter Leah, Luke, Han, and Lando into different storylines. Han leads the boys toward a hunch he has about something the ambitious Bothan council member, Borskfalia, has been hiding since the days of the rebellion. The lead brings them into contact with mysterious guerrilla cell. It appears to have some kind of connection to Han, unbeknownst to Han. Luke, meanwhile, keeps finding himself in situations where his role as a Jedi forces him into talking confrontations back from violence. And somehow notorious ship thief, Niles Farrier, keeps winding up in the middle of them.

Luke gets separated from Han and Lando in the midst of all this and somewhat reluctantly heads toward his rendezvous with, Joruz Sabeah Note the telltale mispronunciation Despite his growing sense That something isn't right With Sabeov

And that even at the height of the Jedi order The guy might have been an asshole Leia leaves for her rendezvous With Kabarok The Noghru Commando She captured at Kashik And finally Grand Admiral Throne indulges in his capacity

To hold grudges as he strikes back at smuggling kingpin talent card who goes on the run with his trusted second command Mara Jade, who in the wake of her fateful encounter with Luke Skywalker is starting to awaken to the force as her normal guarded

wariness transforms into a supernatural danger suns. You could say that a dark force is rising. No, wait a second. You might think that's a sort of Jedi force power metaphor or the dark force could be rising.

Sure, sure. No, it's, um, it's some spaceships. Also, there's some spaceships out there. They're called the dark force. I cannot. The other explanation, why they're called the dark force. I cannot begin. It's so good. It's such a good detail.

This is world building, my friends. We will get to that in a second. We will. We will. Uh, yeah. So this stage of the book doesn't prize apart into neat through lines. This is the first 10 chapters for the listener, right? Yeah. Okay.

So it's the first 10 chapters. I think we'll take them kind of sequentially because we kind of deal with like plot points and then it is at the end of the sequence that the main arcs, the characters and we go on begin to take shape. So like there's a lot of wrapping up of old business here and then slowly bringing the stakes for the new for the next for this book and maybe the rest of the series into into focus here. And like any good Star Wars film, we open with the bad guys. We open with Thron Preparing for an assault on talent cards Compound on Mirker Which he is he's pulling out all the stops

He's brought the entire fleet He's got he he's basically doing the attack on Hawth On A bunch of buildings he's pretty sure is empty And his army sucks now Yeah and it's good to get them practice You know Really fun note in there

there's that bit where, like, they're going really slow because the AT-A-Ts and the ATSs are, like, stumbling through the, the jungle when they're trying to keep up their formation, and someone has to be like, listen, that's super good and important in the academy when you're, like, doing maneuvers, but we're out here on, like, a live fire, not even an exercise, we're on a mission. You know, we got, there's other ways to manage this stuff. We got a fucking move, okay? So fun to see them, you know, training their people up, making them theoretically more competent for future conflicts.

And we meet the – yeah, go on. I was just going to say I like the reinforcement of the untrained army here. Like, I think the detail – the thing that we learn in the first book of, like, all of the empire's best. have effectively been killed and were left with kind of who's either been who was left over and wasn't you know good enough to be deemed to be assigned to the death star so they're just kind of like the the low to mid army guys and as well like just people that they've either forced into conscription or you know

signed up volunteered as they've accumulated more planets into their control so I like the idea of this like bumbling army kind of figuring out they're on their first mission and they're and they want to do it really well and do it right and there's no one in the fucking base waiting

for them but they're like super stressed out about maintaining their perfect formation. It's just it's fun little details and a good reminder of their inexperience. There's a little detail here I like because we hang out with General

Coval who is the ground commander I think during this assault and he's sort of reflecting on the fact that the state of training is dire throughout the empire right now but it's actually worse for the army because they don't invade places.

anymore. They just pull up stakes and retreat. Like, the fleet at least is routinely in battle and, you know, they're not as sharp as they used to be, but like literally, these people don't know how to like do the whole, what Austin just said, like, okay, a bunch of walkers have to converge on a location at the same time. And they're not really prepared to do that. Now, they actually do pull it off because Covel's kind of like helping them navigate that. But just this detail that Like a through line throughout the first book is the raw material is just not there. They don't have enough people and there's a huge debt in training and experience that they kind of can't bridge. There's like missing cohorts of leadership that are that are just gone.

You have the sense that there's a group chat of like senior imperial officers just like, you know, shit that happened on my Star Destroyer type stuff. Tons of different people, like, chiming in, like, bra. I know, right? I know. Are these kids? They know what they're doing, you know. And, you know, I will say the other half of this is, of course, don't worry because the person up top has immaculate perspective, can see a little asteroid at the far corner

of the sector, and be like, hmm, there's just something. I don't know that. I just do something about that aspect. You know, I don't know. Maybe go check it out. Maybe I'll send a message to tell people to go check it out while another message is being sent so that no one listening in would hear me send this second message. I also love the like, because I'm not sure how like the publishing space between these books, but the sort of easing in back into Thrawn's character by being like, you don't understand Pelley. God, I know what kind of art talent likes.

I was really frustrated at it because I want to know what type of art talent likes. I had that exact same note. I said, what art does talent have that you've seen that gives you the indication that he values? He says, you know, you forget, Captain, that I've met the man. More importantly, I've seen the sort of artwork he collects. His real love is not goods or money, but information. how do you know what kind of art is telling you

he has the world's largest collection of galaxy brain meme like you just go there and it's just like people just like their mind's exploding because of the knowledge the information they've got yeah it's funny because it's like

I actually think he could know that simply from the reasons we know it which was like all the times he played he was trying to play Thrawn for information that's nothing to do with the art It's just who he's been for the whole last book, you know? What do I know?

He's got a video display with that scene from the wire where Brother Bezone's like what the most dangerous thing in the world is on loop. And like he's like, this guy is the coolest that, look, see this guy? This is the coolest character in history. That's right. God. I do respect Thron dedicating himself to his own bit, though, and maintaining that. Yes.

The art will speak, will speak for everything. I do think this scene does feel like they are now This scene does feel like they are set up As the polar opposites in the story Like the two antagonists who Both prize information and insight But like

Cards just in it for the love of the game Like And Thrawn correctly diagnoses it This guy has a smuggling business To fund his information business Like the smuggling is just to let him like Here's the juiciest goss And Thrawn

loves information and understanding. He does love art, but also everything is brought to bear in terms of, and this is going to help me subjugate people. It's going to help me dominate them. And, you know, there's something else that Card has that Thron could never have, which is a force-sensitive second who he isn't in a strange hate rivalry with, you know. If Joris had been on board, you know, maybe, maybe he could could have won this little, you know, untotent. Instead, Mara Jade got just the suspicion that it was time to get the fuck out of here. I don't know what, that's just a hunch. Just a little gut feeling. It was time to go. She's such a loser in the scene.

Say more. The sentence that we get, like, the opening paragraph of her thought is like, so what telling card lost his home? I lost my home a long time ago. And I dealt with it. So he's going to deal with it, too. Come on, lady. I know. It was a team on the woods.

Right? Let women suck, though. Like, I love to, I love. I was going to say, I love to hate a woman. That's not what I mean. But I love, I love it, like, an unlikable character here. She's so petty. She's so petty

She's absolutely the worst She's such a narcissist She's like She's the Her experience Is the only experience That could ever be accounted for And everyone else is secondary to her

And And her The convenience of her Her force inklings Are incredible Where she's just like This innate Like her refusal

To acknowledge her own connection to the force and she just keeps kind of So this bit I like And I actually think This whole sequence and like What starts to come on in this book Is where people actually start to like Marjade

As a character Because the first one She's a brat She's a spoiled like Self-absorbed asshole Like It doesn't help It is astonishing

Has lost shit And it's like Yeah Do you know what I mean? Like she tells Luke Right You don't know what I lost You came off a 6th ray farm

I'm on 10th rate planet. And it's like, I'm sorry my aunt and uncle were murdered. By your guy. By people who work for you. The dude who got, your guy is the guy who did it. My sister's planet was

obliterated. You can't come at us with this shit that we don't know what it's like to lose. And she's like, you destroyed my life and only for that you deserve to die. We killed your boss, who sucked. I'm sorry, you've got to go work a shift at Best Buy now.

But fucking, you know? I'll catch you at the unemployment line I guess What do you want for me? And that stuff is like it's super I think now with like reading it now It is so much clear that she has written fairly young And that wasn't clear to me when I was young

But like Zahn is clearly clued into the fact that like This is someone in their mid-20s Who actually for all their training is not as worldly as you might think They're more worldly than Skywalker in some ways That's why they're a fun pairing but like this is still somebody who really hasn't learned to think beyond themselves and like realize that other people like have experiences and realities that are also true and valid but the thing that starts to work for me in the scene I think like it's it's

this is one of the reasons people start to like Mara as a character is that the way that forced sensitivity for her is the opening of a door into waking nightmares. It is the opening of, like, you know, here at the end of the sequence, it's like, uh-oh, the force premonitions are back. Yeah, right. And we end on the dreams aren't far behind. We don't know what those are, but it doesn't sound good.

Or I think that that's later, this is the one where it ends with like, then she's going to kill Luke and maybe then the voices will stop. Right. But it's like the voices, the dreams, whenever she taps into this shit. she's starting to get echoes of something else, you know. And it's alienating. It alienates, like, it's literalized when the varnskers show up and who've been big, friendly hound dogs with all the other employees, everyone else, and now they're staring

her down because, like, as something that is broadcasting of force sensitivity, they're like, we have to kill her. We have to kill and eat that. That is, that is prey. And someone having just like random force powers, at least at this stage or her experience of it, it freaks people out. You know, like when she is easy to imagine. So the thing she does, she keeps having a bad feeling. She keeps trying to tamp it down.

She knows they're not safe. And we know she's right because Thron has been like, they're hiding behind that asteroid. Finally, she can't take it anymore. and she fires up the quick start to the engines, which does mean that they blown their location. They're going to get now they are broadcasting their spot. She looks like somebody

who lost their cool. Like she looks like somebody who just did not have it together enough poise to get through this moment. If the interdictor cruiser does not arrive immediately after that to like vindicate that she just saved all her asses, she looks like the weakest link in the in the

chain. She looks like somebody you can't, you can't trust on a crew. This is somebody now that, sorry, you can't stay in our smuggling gang. You're shaking like a leaf out there. We can't have that. But even if they kind of do see like, oh, Maraz can pick these things up, it's still a little bit like she's out of herself as a witch, you know, in a world that still isn't really like, doesn't know what to do with force sensitive people. So like, I kind of dig this notion of so often the fan, like, especially I think in this point, it's like, Luke Skywalker, you're a special boy. You're, you have force sensitivity. You've got these magical powers. They're going to be awesome. And here's Mara being like,

shit. The magical powers are back. And I think, and they're attached to trauma. And I think that is where people start to like find the character a little more sympathetic, certainly where I do. This is somebody who, in a lot of ways, like has all those like exciting, special like hero abilities and all of them are tied to regret sense of like being being other and just wishing that you could kind of settle all aside and just be normal and i think that yeah it's cool that it doesn't make her like instantly uh you know a like the star child of the ship or that that her powers don't give her aren't giving her some sort of advantage or special like positive attention on the ship as compared to Luke who like his powers

his connection with the force is something that's like admired and respected and and he's you know looked to for that unique ability whereas Mara's is repressing it and has this antagonistic relationship with it and it even though she's ultimately correct in her premonitions it still leaves her seeming untrustworthy or

kind of shifty by you know her her crew members her fellow shipmates which I think is just it's cool to have that that dichotomy there A quick thing, Austin. No, the dream stuff comes up here. The passage, it was all coming back as it had so many times before in the past five years. The hunches and sensory flickers, the urges and the compulsions, which meant that very soon now, the dreams would probably be starting again, too. Like... The thing that is unfortunate there is five chapters later, it's the twitches of power as well as the hunches were back, which meant that the dreams wouldn't be.

far behind when she deals with Dengar and it's the same like it's the same passage it's the same passage he just wrote the same passage twice look it's a big book it happens and there's sometimes let you down yeah uh-huh and later that night as the wild car drove through the modeled sky of hyperspace the dreams started again that's from a little later the same the same chapter you get to sleep every night the dreams are going to start you know it's you know it happens I do like there's something about Marjorie Day, every time we encounter her in the book that, like, just my experience of only hearing about her through the AEO, that she's like the sort of moon in the sky and the horizon, like, who's this woman that Luke Skywalker ends up with? And then you read about

her, she is just such a brat, has been a joy to me. It's hilarious. So I'm not going to stop talking about her. But I do, like, I really love the position that she's being put in here because like it's it's interesting how much she keeps doubting her relationship with Talancard despite him sort of being easygoing and like you know we haven't gotten the sense that there's a bit a little later since where we bring up where where she's like um you know a lot of different people react to her her force sensitivity and you know his was going to be subtle exploitation and you know the only thing that he asked was like, do you hear, do you feel anything strange or something here?

Like a very, it is pretty subtle, you know, and I, I, you know, going into the dynamic there more is going to be really fun. And then I also just like, the Jedi and the Force seem like such a huge blind spot for Thrawn, even though he's supposed to be the like smartest guy in the room always. So, like, as he is sort of, like, you know, getting closer to CARD as that sort of conflict develops, like, I keep waiting for the, like, Thron knows he is a Jedi. Or, like, you know, how did he get away so fast is sort of how we leave that situation here? And if Thron, like, Thron knowing that he is a force sensitive person under him, but also not knowing how to handle that because he can't even handle the Jedi that he has in his own backborder. it, much less Luke, much less Leia.

Like, Mara being the thing that Thrawn stumbles over is going to be really fun if that's what it ends up being. Yeah, absolutely. I think also there's something here with kind of around the book not, the book has to do the work of filling in what the Jedi are to the galaxy right now. And it's really fun to see the different perspectives on that, you know, in the various relationships that they have, right? Let's, like, call out the, like, the, quote-unquote subtle exploitation of talent and, and, or she says that, right? She says the subtle, he's

a new subtle exploitation, which, like, bracketing the fact that her entire previous relationship with her boss was literal total exploitation of her power. But that's complicated because she also seems to, like, give the emperor, the, she seems to believe the emperor gave her that power, that the emperor's power, her powers is just an extension of the emperors, and maybe that's true to some degree. But we also get, you know, scenes of Luke in the world and Luke being recognized as a Jedi. We also get the kind of conversations around, you know, we also get what Luke's interiority is. I guess being a Jedi is a, means being a diplomat sometimes. What does it mean to have the force? And the book also has to answer, retroactively, what did it

mean for there to be Jedi in the world before the empire? And we start to get a lot. little bit of that via the jurors stuff as people start digging into that. And like, I like that a lot about this book and about this trilogy so far is like its secret secondary goal is to give you just enough history about the world that you can start piecing together what things are like before a new hope and before the empire. Not so much that you know everything, but that you know enough that you understand the stakes of Luke wanting to piece together what it is to be a Jedi, or Joris wanting to rebuild a Jedi, you know, Academy or something like that, you need to know a little bit about what came before in order to see what's at stake for

these people who want to rebuild or remake or pursue the past in some way. So I've been really enjoying that part of the Jedi fill in here, too. But also, sometimes Jedi can do cool stuff like frame by frame break down their recent memory. Yes, they sure can do that. And like basically go into the Esper machine, Blade Runner, and figure out exactly where some dude smoking a swisher suite went while you were on the phone with some people. This bit absolutely kills me. So Luke is stuck on Slice Van. Nobody is authorizing repairs for his X-Wing because it's not new public military.

He goes to check on Lando, who's laid up having been, like, wounded in the fighting on Mirker. And Lando immediately grabs Luke's arm and gives it a big sniff and is like, where were you just now? And it turns out. It's insane. Little Carrizies and Talancard are the dinner boys. These old fuckers care about how things taste and how they smell. can you imagine if someone grabbed you or like you smell like cardamom like where were you just now

why does and somehow we're not dating I want to see thrond what's the author they're both thrones no they're not thrott zahn sorry sorry why does zon keep going back to smells and sniffing to get information oh right there is more sniffing happening in this there's the laya blood sniff yeah which happens in this book well hang on in his defense like set in memory

you're like this and this like if you like the thing that bridges connections and heartbeat is smell and it turns out so now you have to make this a thing so like the no great great hunters and they just got that collective sense of smell for

Lord Vader and Lando is just a man of high taste so he can smell a cigar and no sure you can smell that someone that Luke walked past someone smokes it It's his iconic swisher sweet. It is. It's caraba tobacco, he said, with some armadou spice mixed in.

I haven't smelled that since. It's Niles Farrier. Has to be incredible. But, okay, if you were like, he's an assassin. He's like a, not a bounty. He's like a ship. He's like a burglar, basically. He's like an Ocean's 11.

You wouldn't be switching up your suds a little bit. You wouldn't be carrying around some baking. soda perhaps. It's what makes this guy a douchebag. That's our tip off. This guy is like a huge douchebag. Is that like his thing is this iconic like this dude would be vaping his ass off. Like these smells are not these. This is not like an elegant custom blend of like tobacco. Oh, this is my signature blend. I get my tobacconist. This is like this is the shit he gets the gas

station and it's like it's nice. It's it's like a scented candle but you smoke it. He was. would be vaping uh today if you made this today he would just be sitting there just like ripping clouds out of out of some little star wars gadget i wish we got a better comparison of what i want to know what it smells like you know i want to know that aramadu spice yeah i want the r yeah exactly i want to know what that is oh well yeah i'm looking at this guy's name on Etsy to see if anybody made that candle was selling it.

The Nulles Farrier. That's so funny. Oh, wow. But, uh, so Lando immediately is like, it is bad news if this guy has shown up because he's like the best ship thief. This guy,

he could steal a ship that you're on. And this place is chaos right now because of the attack that it was the end of the last book, right? Yeah. And this is where he has Luke do. He's like, hey, Luke, can you do a memory trick? this was this was I what is happening he says got him he told Lando freezing the picture in his memory what are you talking about the limitless theme begins to play funny it's so like I love I love the fact that this book is giving us like new Jedi skills like constant there are just like a video game

a new skill is unlocked that we've never heard of ever. I do feel owned. Do you remember that time that like was it Faloni? It was like I don't like this thing where the Jedi have superpowers and then like the next episode we watched was Ezra developing his

force animal talking superpowers. Last episode I was like I really like in this trilogy that like the force is just like it's just a it's a thing that you tap into and you can kind of like almost like an analog relationship to develop it in different ways it's like a muscle it's like

no Luke has fucking forced memory recovery one you know short term memory enhancement was one of the Jedi skills he learned from Yoda when when when when on Daguba

on Dagaba I was there too and I did not I did not see that shit go down It was right after he tried to make him lift the X-wing and it didn't work out. He was like, you know, let's go play some memory games. This is what you learned. Like the second or third time, you try to be like, oh, I don't know, Mastriot, I forgot.

Yeah. You had it's like, we'll see about that. That's right. Oh, you forgot. I got, I have something that can help you with your memory. Yeah. If your memory is going to be an issue, it keeps slowing us down. Check on the 32 face-down cards, motherfucker.

Yeah. You're ready to play. I actually love that. It's so funny. Luke forgot Yoda snacks Like one too many times When they went on little walkies And was like, you know what?

I'm, you're gonna learn something today And it's to never forget my snacks Ever fucking again. Oh, it's funny I love it, I love it I love when There's like Some video game bullshit Like some fantasy

Like you know it's it's very fun um it's just ridiculous to imagine luke standing in front of lando being like hold up let me freeze brain yeah i see him now i got it computer enhanced in my brain they do have like a cotor ass confrontation in the hallway of the space station where you kill one guy and then it cuts into a cutscene really quick and you're like wait but i do with the grenades the grenades still going to go off in the middle of the conversation box, you know? God. And, oh my gosh.

And it is a, it is a series of like, Luke passes perception checks and notices people trying to like get an angle where they think this is going to work. And he shuts it right down. But he, he lets Lando do the talking. And I think the, the other thing I dig here is that for Lando, it's all in the game. Yeah. Like, Niles Farrier, are ship thieves maybe a little less reputable than being smugglers?

You can sort of see it as being a little worse, right? Like, the same way, like, a horse thief in, like, the old west is worse because, like, use your horse, you're stuck. You can't, like, maybe a ship thief is kind of, like, lower than, maybe better than a bounty hunter, but, like, worse than a smuggler. Like, but still, but still part of, like, a fraternity of scoundrels. And the way Lando just tries to get it around to like listen i understand you got to eat i understand this is your job

your craft your trade but i kind of work here now not really but i kind of work here now and i can't i can't let you steal a cruiser i'm sorry but maybe you go to this other there's a gas station over here that maybe has some shitty like old police cars it's kind of like a star cruiser it's it's pretty grim it does not feel like good trade but uh it it is that or getting chopped up by by luke uh but i like the whole negotiation here where we're where lando really is a we're all working stiffs here but you can't you can't you can't fly the man star wars for sure uh lando in general like lando is done well by these books Lando's constantly getting stuff to do.

He's, like, a main character. He's, he's, I mean, so, like, a secondary character because he's only ever in, we don't really get, like, Lando totally by himself chapters. He's always tied to a Han or a Luke, but we get his perspective a lot. And he's always making the right play, and shout us a lot to Lando, getting some dubs, you know? The thing with this chapter is that, like, I really want a whole, like, sub, like, the, plot line of the story to be Han and Luke teaming up

because they're such an interesting pair because they don't have like you know Luke bounces off of Han in a very particular lay but I think that like their friendship and Leah sort of complicates that but like you know when Han and Luke are together

they're like just two dudes they respect each other's like respective you know um you know like expertise yeah yeah yeah and he just like Lando is such a straight talker

and Luke is such a sensitive person that I think he really appreciates it and I think that like they just have such a vibe together that I was obsessed with in this chapter and I every time they like separate I got really upset what he's just but what's interesting is

I think the book's good about this he's different with hot Lando is. Like, Lando, like, he busts Hans balls a little more

in those scenes, but there is this sense when he's with Luke that you're a little more straight with this guy or a little more because he won't, he won't get it.

He needs his chalky mill. The bit later where Luke, knowing he's going to meet Lando at the bar has pre-ordered himself some hot chocolate is wild.

I'm obsessed. I'm completely obsessed. I think Luke has a big crush on Lando is really. I don't know if he knows that's what it is. But I think he's like, Lando knows so much about the world. Like Lando's been all these plans. Everywhere I go,

I order my, the region's specialty chalky milk. And here at the end, he picks up. Because Lando told me about it. He picks up that Lando is kind of leery of like, is Luke going to be cool about this? Right.

Like he likes Luke, but he doesn't know if he's going to like, roll with some of the things you have to do in the world of scum and villainy. Yeah. And so when he gets the codes, they're going to allow him to basically break into the like software,

the ship, the ship management system and like retask repair crews for his X-wing, Landau's not sure if Luke is going to like suddenly play the part of like, how dare you say a Jedi would stoop to, and instead Luke's like, eh, When do we get started?

Let me try to communicate that I'm, yeah, I'm down for it. Let's try it. Good. I love them. How do we feel about the situation, I guess, back at, on Corosan, where we left things off was that Akbar had been arrested for treason or under suspicion of treason. I can't believe that's what happens in the first book. Like, if you were to be like, hey, Natalie, guess what? Like, at one point in time in the Star Wars books, Admiral Akbar gets arrested for treason.

Yeah. I would have lost my mind. For a year, people are like, what's going to happen to the Akbar treason case? You're going to know until this next book comes out. Completely unhinged. I love it. Oh, poor Akbar. Poor Han, who thinks that he can blow this whole thing.

thing wide open by basically going, hey, look here, buddy, and that the entire provisional council is going to be like, oh, damn, when you put it that way, let's get Akbar back in here. This is some bullshit. Yeah, Leah having to, like, calmly be like, listen, we, it doesn't work like that. You can't just say, I bet the other guy's the traitor, and that'll fix it. Like, you've got to go prove that Akbar is not the traitor. It's going to take time. It's really annoying.

But at the same time, you know, the whole point might be to, like, tie our hand. So, you know, we might actually have some time in a way. We just got to move a little quicker than we thought we had to. Very funny. It's very good. We also get the reintroduction of a banking clan. Well, a banking planet at the very least. Planet Switzerland.

Planet Switzerland exists. They want to stay neutral and they want to run the banking. And that's all we know so far But I'm curious I'll get more Polani Our space Switzerland In the future

I also dig that When they tell Akbar Like look man We can't clear you yet It's going to take some time So you're just going to have to write out this house arrest for a while But The way Han is clearly hurt

By the fact that Akbar there's a rift between him and Akbar now since he resigned. Yeah. And he's like, Akbar treats me like shit now. And Leah's like, come on,

you're imagining it. And the way Hansa was like, no, talk to Lando. It's the same thing. Like, he and Lando are having conversations

about like, I didn't think the old man would ever turn on me like this. But like, he thinks I've gone back to like being a small time crook. Yeah.

But yeah, I just, I love this detail of the fact that somehow all the heroes except for, for Leah, basically.

have washed their hands of the New Republic military at least, but also we're kind of trying to maybe get away from the government in general, like, which not hard to see why. Like, Borskhalia is like the most important person in the room. It's starting to,

the vibe sucks at the Provisional Council. It's just, it's not fun, but this notion like Han Lando are like, yeah, just kind of wounded by the fact that, you know, all their years of service kind of got set side the second that they

prioritized not being good soldiers. And Lay's explanation of like, well, you know, it was tough for them on Cal because they're so peaceful. They just they really do feel away about it's, it was hard for them putting gun batteries and all their beautiful spaceships.

And so if they committed to the war hey man, what happened to the quorum? Tell me again about how the Mon Cal and the Corrin had been dealing with what, tell me about that situation. Tell me we're at the Red schools. You can't put that on Zon.

You can't put that on Zon. But that may have already existed in supplement material, right? Because that's Westin game shit. So that might be like lowercase C canon at this point. It might be whatever the, I don't have my canon list in front of me from this era of Star Wars.

but you know some lower case not G canning because G canon is the most canon that's George Canon but you know D canon or whatever Luke doing some Googling

as he do quiet time alone I love this stuff I do too especially because it touches on a thing that we're all in the dark what we do not know and Zahn's not allowed to really fully flesh out happened in the past and so he just got you know luke in there pulling up some very broad

records about jorosabeov and it has that one interesting detail that natalie alluded to earlier um in the midst of a career that involved lots of adventures and and being an influential person and declaring himself j Jedi master which really rankles with luke uh the guy was an advisor to an up and coming senator named palpatine And it is the first moment I think it's the first moment that Luke begins to worry he's in touch with the Dark Jedi.

Oh, yeah. And I'm not sure that's, like, we know the real Jorosabayov is dead. You know, the Throne killed him, we got ambushed. But Luke doesn't know that. Luke doesn't know that, but like I do kind of wonder

if that sense of unease, like if Sabayov is the clone and we put a lot down to, well, like, yeah, he's the twisted evil clone of Joraheuf. I don't know based on, and that's when he bounces off winter. Maybe the original Sabayov.

Great. So, because he ended up talking to Winter about this. And Winter is like, oh, yeah, that guy was like, he liked being in the mix. Like, he liked being, like, you know, among people who, like, had power and influence. You know, I don't know that that guy, you know, it was weird that he wasn't part of the rebellion because he was. was the sort of guy who liked being part of things in that way. So a little interesting to think the idea that he had a relationship with Palpatine already. You know, not Jerusalem, not two U's, one U, original guy.

We also get in this stuff something we already knew, but re-stated, which is that he was part of the outward... Outbound flight. outbound flight project, which is one of a few things in this section of the book that reminds me just so much of just like traditional science fiction stuff. You know, the idea of like, oh, yes, it was a mission to go outside of the galaxy proper and seek life in new places. Like, that's some real classic golden age sci-fi shit and then later connected to the dark force fleet that we'll learn about in a bit we also learn about like a like a virus that spread throughout them that is the

most like michael cratney sci-fi shit and it's really fun to see how zan is is pulling in these different elements of sci-fi as a genre into what is normally this kind of big you know space opera you know, a very pulpy story, he's not afraid to bring in elements of these other types of science fiction to tell little minor stories in it that then still managed to like sync up with the specific Star Warsy genre that we're in, you know, which is great. I just love getting Luke at Google, Luke at the Senate computers. It's so good. It's one of those things we've talked about so much is the idea that like the computers computerized data retrieval is not a thing that you can get from anywhere.

You have to go to the main place to do it. Really fun there. This is not the scene where we learn about centralized computers. That's the Dark Force scene later. But similar stuff there, we'll talk about later. I do love every time Leia says research and it's a capital, that's like a proper noun, that like, you know, it is a thing that people have to do that you are assigned to because it is such a limited access.

It's fun. I also just think we've been so spoiled, we'll start with, amount of Star Wars stuff, and not all of it's fantastic, some of it's mid, it's not bad, but that moment,

the moment of personal Jedi advisor to Senator Palpatine, and then the bit where it's like, you know, the computers seem to consider the request unavailable. And we kind of get the, like, Unavailable or classified? Unavailable.

You do imagine it's like 1991 or whatever and you're a Star Wars head and you're like, yo, what is going on? What is this project? Who was the real Joris? What was Senator Palpatine like when he was a senator before he was the emperor? You know, like what happened? You like all that stuff, it just feels so fascinating. The idea that there had been a dark Jedi insurrection on Bipfash that this guy was

part of putting down. there were how many dark Jedi were there was palpating part of that what happened big big open questions love it i also like a minute later so we've seen luke sort of struggling with just the the the broad like the inconclusiveness of like basic research of pulling pulling records where where a lot of records don't don't exist i also like the the moment a bit later where they're trying to figure out how to begin to clear akbar uh where do we start looking we know that we don't trust failure uh like he has some connection to all this and han has this insight again like when these characters are shown to be actually pretty smart they have a they have a sense for these

things and han has read his man that like phalia and his bothan cell in the war they're self-interested relentlessly so he's like let's look for the one place that they put it all in the line and got into a fight for themselves he says like look at every fight they were in and then rule out the ones where they're part of a broader, like, rebel task force or rule out the ones where they were directly ordered to engage in a fight. So when did they actually go against all their instincts and, like, go lay it on the line? Because that is how you're going to identify the thing they actually care about. And I kind of dig that, too, that everyone else is like,

how do you begin to, like, sift through this guy's extensive war record and the dealings of his faction? And Han is just like, oh, we can throw out 90% of it. And we'll just focus on these areas. And it's, they decided to throw themselves in the battle at a place called New Cove. Something they never did, except in this one case. And it gets a Star Destroyer, right? Like, they were outclassed or outgunned or whatever in a way that's like deeply dangerous. And they are kind of, the Bothans are kind of core designation of their core traits that we're getting here is like, they play it safe.

keep their heads down. They gather information. They stay safe. So the idea that they would throw it on the line here against such a deadly foe is mean something, says Han. And Leah's like, I don't know. Han knows. And he's like, we can go check it out, babe.

Or I'll go check it out. You stay here on Coruscant. You'll keep everything. You'll keep an eye on things. And she's like, well. I love that. I love that. I love that chewy just immediately spills the beans

like could not fucking wait was just like standing there like biting his lip like just dying to dying to spill

what Leia had planned it's really good and that is like Luke should we and Luke's like yeah yeah we should go see about the hyper

drive converter thing absolutely and they just bounce also saves us an expository paragraph for too. Way to go. Chewy just blurts it all out. What did he blurt out?

About a third of the last book we read. Yeah. I actually want to, so let me get this kind of like moment between Han and Leah and Han being pissed about this because he's like, what about the twins? Like what about, you know, you?

Like, I don't want you going after the fucking no gree. You're going to get killed. Like, it's dangerous. And there's the second. that I actually was talking to, I want to say, friend of the show, Jake Rodkin, former Idol Thumbs, co-host, Valve, Valves Jake Rodkin. And Jake pointed out a really fun thing about this section to me that I didn't really zero in on. But there's a moment where Han is thinking about his history with Leia. And he's a few moments. He's like, there's that time that she grabbed Luke's Blaster. and open the garbage shoot. There's a time that, like, she helped him through the blindness of the hibernation sickness

at Jabba's Palace. There's a time at the Echo Bunker where she saves his life, et cetera. And Jake said to me, there are times when I, sorry, he says, I think it's a huge strength and not a weakness that these books

only have the three original trilogy movies to draw on when informing the character of their main heroes. There are times when I suspect other more modern and diffuse Star Wars stories when if Han remember finally on, quote, the countless adventures together he had to play, yeah. But in this

book series, he recalls, like, throw the three crazy things they did together, which together create what he knows is the most important thing he did in his life, which is also inexorably tied to when and why he fell in love with her. Zana's forced to take what's there on the screen and treat it as all there is, and then to try to humanize it. I find it so much more satisfying that what often happens in this world where people get flattened into tropes and icons. And then Jake was like Kieran Gillen's Vader comic is also particularly really good at this, this idea of like, we, instead of just trying to be like, and that thing you saw happened once happened a dozen times, saying like, no, it's that it only happened those three times,

but those are the three most important. Those are life and death moments. And they get to be life and death moments because they happened three times. And he fucking came out the other side with Leah on each of those times is really interesting. And partly it's the good luck of Zahn being given these books to write before there are the industry of dozens and dozens and dozens of these books, right? Because if you sat down in 2006 to write one of these books set in the post-O-T timeline, there would have been dozens and dozens of adventures with Han and Leah because those books exist now. But here we get to just treat the OT as the OT as like the whole of the experience. And it lets us stay really close with the characters. I mentioned this in the first book where there's the bit where it's like,

this is the first time Luke has been in a dog fight since the Death Star. And it's like, oh, shit, that's true. And that really does let us keep these characters as characters and not the sort of broad icons that they turn into by way of there being hundreds of stories written about them. So I just wanted to shout that out and thank Jake for sending that in. Yeah, that's such a great point. The fact that we get to spend time with these characters before the dilution to come,

where we can revisit our own fond memories, like, we were there with them at these, like, particular moments. And we get to, like, be in the reminiscent. with them is so evocative and it's a really special, special thing of these books, that it is so concentrated, that it is such a limited pool of experience and memories to pick from. It makes it, it really helps me conceptualize them as why people, when they came out, thought of them as the new sequel trilogy, right? because it's like they're not written as if there were a bunch of stories between the O.T. and here. This is it. We're here. We're with them. This is the most important stuff. There is not secretly some other shit that's just happened off screen. You know, we could have said, and other invent, like, the countless, like, I would have expected to read that, actually. The fact that it specifically calls out these moments from. the original trilogy was surprising to me.

Well, think about like Revenge of the Sith. You start that and you get the sense, like, oh, Anakin and Obi-Wan have been on a bunch of adventures together in between Attack of the Clones and now. They've both grown up a bunch. And there's blank space there, which is really fun. I do like that sometimes also. But I think that specifically with these characters,

there is something really nice about at this point, them not being, like you said, diluted. And in this moment, too, where Han is looking at, like, the mother of his children. She's, you know, like, it's such an intimate moment in what his fears for what she's about to embark on to just ground it in this shared experience between the audience and the characters themselves is, it just adds to that intimacy, I think. And we really get to be, like, in their relationship with them as he looks at her.

Well, and also right at this moment, there's a passage that the Jedi Order could never, basically. Like, and it's well-written passage, but it's also such basic stuff of, like, a functional relationship that, like, I think sometimes some of the reasons that the prequel trilogy was so disappointing is. that you had some, like, really childish note. You know what I mean? Like, these things that are, like, laid out as, like, insoluble dilemmas are just really childish. And if you think, if you think about it for 30 seconds, you should have been able to think your way out of this paper bag, basically.

And characters don't in that story. But as Han is really terrified, she's going to go on this mission, really wants to, like, maybe put his foot down. and say like, hell no, he says, after looking at land, having the sequence of flashbacks, he remembered to the wrenching realization he'd had at that same time that no matter how he tried, he would never be able to totally protect her from the dangers and risks of the universe.

Because no matter how much he might love her, no matter how much he might give of himself to her, she could never be content with that alone. Her vision extended beyond him, just as it extended beyond herself, to all the beings of the galaxy. and to take that away from her whether by force or even by persuasion

would be to diminish her soul and take away part of what he'd fall in love with in the first place and he's done that's it he's just he's on board with the mission the only functional relationship in Star Wars well and it's like

he doesn't like Zahn's Ryan that's not knowing the entire like what does Anakin fall the dark side because he faces this moment and it's like hey I don't know man pregnancies can be kind of dangerous for the mother, and he's like, holy shit.

What? Yeah, sorry, man. The only way you can't really have a, you can't really guarantee a safe pregnancy unless you fall to the Sith. Right. And he's like, sign me up. It's so, like, it's laughable.

Like, you know, you can like parts of, there are things I like about the prequel trilogy. But then you see this passage and you're like, yep, that's basically like how you avoid having a controlling, loving, relationship. This is, this is the, this is it. This is the ideal. Right. And the prequel trilogy hangs this entire hat on absolutely not. Yeah. No one could arrive at this. No one in the Jedi order could arrive at this, right? That's the big tragedy that they're trying to,

they're trying to sell us is that there's no way Anakin could have learned to see the world this way because of the Jedi order. But man, I don't know. I've seen all those adventures he's been on. He didn't learn this around the way somewhere? didn't have enough positive romantic relationships modeled for him to learn from. Unlike Han's solo? If Han could pick this up.

We don't know what Han's parents were like at this point. You're right. They could have been like the perfect perfect family, perfect, you know. No, but I, yeah, I, I, I love seeing Han and Leah like the description of them

as having very independent lives and they go away and they come back together that's like such a it's so intrinsic to how they love each other and it's nice to see that reflected here it's good and then he's like listen it is better than burying

your wife on the planet with the searing sun in a mole miner and like being like we'll get around in 40 days when the sun goes down this this is a just a better plan yeah this is better yeah i agree with that yeah what plan was that in the last in the first book in the first book lando's like i've got it i know right right right right right right yeah so we got these melanch are different right you know Like, this is why Lando don't have Laya. It's true. Hans, like, if you love something, set it free. A realization that would have rocked the Jedi Order.

Like, you'd imagine in their cafeteria, like, if somebody said that just in the conversation, the cafeteria where Obi-1 and Quinnlin Voss. Yeah. Quinlan Voss are hanging out. You'd imagine the whole cafeteria buzzing with that bomb-low. Like, be like, you love something. You set it free. You said it free, you let it go.

Shit, we got to take that to the Yoda. Does Yoda know about this? Yeah. I think Obi-Wan was sending a lot of things that he loved free. I don't know. I think he's the one who's saying that in the cafeteria and everybody. You're right. If you love something, don't.

With really the heart of the Jedi mantra in that era, unfortunately. Yeah, if you love something, no, you don't. That's not love. But that's duty. If you love something set of free, Lando's like, you build a high security vault for it. Yeah, exactly.

And then you make sure nobody even knows where that vault is. And then it's safe. And you go get, you go to that thing you love when you need it. And you're like, well, what if that thing's a person?

And he's like, all the more reason to keep it safe. It can be a nice, it can be a nice hole in the ground. You've seen the hobbit? Yeah. So we get a little, we, we now cut over to Cards' new, new, new, new hidey hole. He's, he's, he's in, he's in this dense, like, city of, like, cliff dwellers who, who were all sort of piled on top of each other.

It makes, because it's, it's much a dense city that it feels like there's no privacy, no, there's nowhere to hide. And cards like, yeah, big cities are extremely anonymous. Don't worry about a kid. which again not as worldly as she thinks there's so many people here of course everyone must know each other's business in the city of a million people

yeah no surprised how much they don't they don't yeah you'd be surprised how much no one gives a fuck about us actually but until we'll get to that because my note here is

did Mara just kill Dengar and we'll But that's not my Dengar. It's not my Dengar. It turns out, yeah, we'll get there. Manoru never let him get up to that kind of nonsense. That's right. Is it a different Dengar?

It is. It's a guy who, like, genuinely, it is a guy who stole Dengar's ID. This is the Jodo cast of Dengar Roth. Yes. Oh, okay. Which, to be clear, Zan thought this was Dengar. And then someone writing the RPG source book was like, that was not Dengar. That was a guy named,

And it's something very funny. It's not Bangar, but it's something like that. I had this moment while I was reading it where I was like, what if it's a different Dengar? What if there's, Dengar is just like Robert or whatever? And a lot of people are- And there are lots of Dengars. I see if you're saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes. That's actually closer to what it actually is. Yeah, I'll find the guy's name in a second when we get there. But first, we have to learn about the Catana Fleet. So Katama's existed in this world now, I guess Or it's just a string syllable

That just could mean anything You know, sounds good Yeah Just trips off the tongue Yeah So yeah So Marr's like Hey you got pretty spooked

When Thron was asking about like You know anyone who's got warships And Carsley all right So here's the deal And he explains the backstory of the Katana fleet, which is that the old Republic and already we're in the, we're implying

interesting things about the old Republic. We sure are. A benevolent, a benevolent body that ruled the galaxy through peace and enlightenment, you know, the old Senate where they hashed out all the differences. They built a fleet of 200 battleships

for reasons. I don't know. For they just needed them. They needed 200, they needed 200 war ships. Mm-hmm. And now obviously, people were like,

there's no way you can crew 200 of these dreadnoughts. Especially back then. Back then, there weren't, there were no, like they didn't use droids that much. So each of these ships were usually tens of thousands of crewers.

But the old republic had invested, they put all their chips on this new technology, slave circuitry. what basically sounds like networked computing. This kind of sounds like Zahn's also intuitive things that have popped up throughout because they're in Star Wars.

It's there in the prequels. This is, it's so funny that he gets there sort of the same way, but backwards, because in the prequels, we leave the prequels going, why the fuck aren't there more droid armies out there? And what we've learned is through clone wars and through rebels, oh, the fact that there was a central computer made them weak, it made it easy to destroy the central computer,

which is what happens at the end of Phantom Menace, and they all shut down, right? And it's that, but instead of it being that the central computer controlled the droids here in Dark Force Rising, the idea is that the central computers, allowed for the ship functions to be, it centralized the ship functions, and that was replaced with dozens of droids who could still let you be more efficient than 20,000 people. You know, droids are still capable of doing more,

more than what a human crew member could do, but it's distributed so that taking down the central computer doesn't mean the whole ship goes away. You know, you'd have to kill all the droids on a ship to, you know, make it impossible to, to helmet the way that you would if you just take out the central computer. So really interesting that they get there again.

It feels like the sense of like is world of wondrous technology. Yep. But it is machinery, not computing that defines this world. And bigger ship, that's more machinery, it still requires someone.

It can be a robot or a person, but like it doesn't scale where like one computer can just handle more and more machinery as part of the network. That's not really what seems to happen. And so the catania fleet was the answer to this dilemma, which is that we will have one central, not only will ships be sort of centrally controlled, but the single command ship will also be able to navigate and direct all the subsidiary ships using the slave circuits. Nothing can go wrong. They go on a goodwill tour through the old republic, which this is all very like age of, you know, imperialism, 1900s.

Like this is the white fleet that Roosevelt sent around the world. But here, they do a porticole and someone picks up a hive virus. And it is extremely Michael Crichton. Because it's latent, it's dormant. And then everyone goes bananas. All 200 ships. Yeah. And then.

In hours. In hours. It is like the start of the stand. It is like it goes from huge Republic Battlefleet to people like, you know, just absolutely deranged with madness. And then someone on the command ship being like, I'm just going to jump out of here. And where do they go? Nobody knows.

Except. Except our boy, Talancard. Because he happened to jump there. He's such a character out of a Conan Doyle. This whole story is Conan Doyle last. This is an old man. I was but a young crewman on the ship at the time. It took me sometime. time to realize the significance of what I had seen. And I don't think many, I think most of my, most of my compatriots never, never even did. But basically, they were on a smuggling mission.

It went bad. They did an emergency blind jump. They jumped into more warships. So they did a second emergency jump. Crash the ship in hyperspace. Tons of people died. Everyone was like, well, that was fucked up. We got to limp home to port. So nobody's thinking about, what card clocks which is that hey did those dreadnots look funny to anyone else he doesn't say this to anyone he just holds that in his head because he's like wait those looked two hundred of those dreadnoughts just hanging out now wait a second what would mark them as being a distinct ship rob

two things they were painted gray right was that it it's probably out the holes are graded interior the interiors are also redesigned. But yes, the holes are painted dark gray. But some people joked that the reasons called the dark force is because they were so undercrued. The republics saved money on interior illumination. And so the ships were literally dark as hell because they started cost cutting and were like, thanks to slave circuits, we don't need anyone to actually see what's going on down here. It's really fun. That's a really fun note because it's, you know, again, the thing it says on the page is like, these are ships that before the circuit

was set up would need 16,000 people to crew. Now it's 2,000 people. You can imagine what that would feel like, you know, like going on a ship that's, you know, not just, what is it, like a, not even a little more than a tenth, right, reduced down to. But like still, like 15% or whatever of what the crew is supposed to be, it might be creepy to be on that ship. You know, that's weird. Get me out of here. I would not like it. No.

Plus, you got like a high, like, this just sounds like a system shock situation waiting to happen. Oh, completely. You got the virus spreading. Yeah. No, thank you. Well, I don't want to go get, I, card is like, well, we know where these ships are. I guess Mara J is like, why don't we sell them to Thron? Because Mara just got here, I guess.

And it's like, I don't, I don't want to go near those ships, honestly. Like, I get that they're valuable to know where they are. I don't want to go near them. There's a lack of understanding of power. Maybe this is also, she, she thinks she was proximate to it. Right. She doesn't actually understand its workings. She sees it as like, we can get thrown off our back.

We just give them these ships that will, that will mollify him. And Card, this is the second time he's had to tell her this. And she's not quite getting it, but it's 100% true. Like, you use leverage. But if you do it under threat of compulsion, you're paying a ransom. And you do not pay a ransom on yourself. If that happens, you're done. It's over.

And she can't quite, she doesn't really believe him. And it's the sort of thing, she's like, well, just, we can just square it with Thron. And we're card realized, and we've seen enough of Thron, he's right about this. There's no squaring this. Like, this is an implacable, Thrawn doesn't even hate him. It's just, you got to, he's got to crush him. And Card recognizes that, and Mara just fundamentally doesn't recognize, like, these power dynamics, doesn't really recognize the type person she's dealing with.

I'm reminded of a very stupid story that I think, I thought it was, I thought it was Billy Crystal, but maybe it wasn't Billy Crystal. Someone, someone tells the story about how he, how he meets John Gotti, and John Gotti puts a situation to him. him. And he says, I want you to imagine you're a restaurant tour and you have a restaurant and, you know, a bunch of made guys come in and they run up the bill. A ton of money. You know, there's ordering everything on the menu plus all your most expensive drinks, you know, tens of thousands of dollars. End of the night, they're the last people in the bar. What do you do? And I keep thinking it's Billy Crystal, but maybe it's someone in a Billy Crystal mode, you know? But I much just have Billy Crystal in the brain.

I recently watched Billy Crystal's wonderful eulogy for Muhammad Ali, which is fantastic. We should go watch that. So maybe not Billy Crystal. Someone like a Billy Crystal is doing this. And what he said was, what I would do is I would go over and I would say, thank you so much for joining us tonight. You know what? I can tell this is a very special night for you. And so as a one-time thing, we're going to cover the bill here.

We're going to cover the bill. But I need you to know if you come back another night, you know, I'm trying to run a business here. I know you know what that's like. And I'm going to need to tell you, you know, in the future, you're going to be charged like everybody else. You know, maybe I can give you a little discount, but that's about it. But tonight, it's on me. And Gotti told him, like, that's the perfect answer. You'd be screwed if you did anything else.

If you'd asked, if you'd asked us to pay that night, we would have paid and come back. and burnt the place down. And if you would have, and if you would have just paid for it without insisting that future, you know, patronages would have required payment. You would have been a dormant.

We would have just walked in and demanded free stuff every time. And this is a thing Talent Card understands. Talent and card understands that you need to maintain, you're not going to be the most powerful person every time. You're going to have to, like, let yourself be exploited by the powerful person sometimes.

But you can't invite that in. You can't make that be the basis of the relationship or you're fucking screwed. You have to like at least try to play the game a little bit here. And unfortunately, what I do think is the tragic flaw for him. On the other hand, and maybe this is like the thing that makes him and Mara so fun is she's like, we should do it right now. And he's constantly like, I think there will be a better time for us to do it down the line. Let's do it after dinner. Let's do it after dinner.

Let's do it once this New Republic shit shakes out. Let's do it once the war is over. And if he keeps doing that, he's just going to keep punting until, this is my read, until it's too late. He's never going to cash out, right? And that's risky. What if the thing you have loses value, you know? So I'm going to try to find this. I'll try to embed the link to this story.

I'm dying at the image of Billy Crystal having this conversation with John Gotti. So I really hope it's him. New York in the 70s and 80s is just like It's incredible. The proximity of worlds, I think. Everyone is one degree apart. Was it, was it? Is this an inside the, in my mind, this is like at inside the actor studio is where this story is being told.

Just to come, just to give it an even one more level of this. I'll try to find it. And I won't try to find it right now. Otherwise, it'll be all I do. So. Also, I think. I think Goddy would have approved of how Mara handles the situation. Oh, yeah.

Fugazi Dengar. So actually, I do like this. What happens is kind of eerie. She spots a guy who's all, like, swaddled up in, like, a scarf and, like, can't see. It's like, it's like someone, like, trying to spy on you, but they look like spy versus spy. As they're zipping around back there, and she gets the drop on this guy. She easily clocks him, you know. scoot around the city comes up behind him

and he's dead and it turns out the actual bounty hunter just like use this poor schmuck as a stalking horse and then killed him to fix him in place so that he could lure Mara into this trap but he misreads the situation

or actually he doesn't he just doesn't know she's far sensitive the thing that saves her ass here is that she's got a tiny little bit. You imagine the Luke Skywalker version of this. This dude's getting ragdolled around this alley. That blaster's gone. That blaster, it's going to look like, you know, she's going to let that thing fly. Like, he's going to let that thing fly. It'll, it'll be taken care of. All she can do at this stage is maybe pull like a trash can lid off a trash can to make a noise and takes like pretty much all her focus to pull this off. But it does give her the chance to, you know,

produce her holdout blaster. Yeah. If you've seen taxi driver, that little gun on a rail that he that he's got where he sort of snicks his wrist and a gun shoots out of a holster into his hand. That's what

Mara's got. So that like she's got this this one like little like literal ace up her sleeve as it were. And so the second you know, she tries to buy this guy off and he's like, can't do a deal like this.

You know, the, the empire's promised the money. He knows that money's good. He doesn't, he doesn't trust her. He doesn't know her. You know, twice of, what is it, twice of nothing is, is nothing. Yeah. So she distracts him by creating a noise in the alley and then shoots him dead. And gets his ID, giving his name as Dengar Roth.

It says here. Probably forged. Probably forged. now in the Star Wars, The New Republic, the Last Command source book, a guide to volume three of Timothy's, sorry, this is volume three. This is the right one. No, I want the middle one. I want, oh, it is the last command source book. It is not in, but it does explain the Dengar stuff. It does, it does apparently explain the Dengar stuff. Somewhere in here, I'm looking at it now, it explains that this is not Dengar Roth. This is, in fact,

Gunner Groth. Oh, my God. What? Gunner Groff, everybody. Not Dengar Roth. Gunner, Groff. Come on. His cousin?

Unrelated. I think it's unrelated. I'm scrolling. I'm looking. Yeah, it's just a different guy. You know, it's just a different guy. Don't worry about him so much. This is very funny, though.

This is a cool book. This does have little breakdowns on Pellion. And, you know, I can tell you what Pellion's, you know, dexterity score is or whatever you know I'm not doing it I feel like Gunner Groff has not meant for great things in this universe though it's just like one it's like just some names

it's like yep that boy was that boy was headed for getting gunned down in an alley poor old Gunnergross it's such a shame because he doesn't get the drop on her right like that's not nothing yeah he he couldn't account for her having force force power

it was an unfair advantage she, if it had been a proper 1 v1 he would have he would have had her dead to rights but also to the point that a couple of us have made about this where

Mars whole deal is like don't look at me I wish not to be perceived and then through displaying impressive plumage like God, he explicitly says this, right? I'll just be over here doing the coolest thing you've ever

seen. Don't look at me. He explicitly says it explicitly is her hair. Why didn't you die your hair? Why didn't you need that gold main? Why didn't you? Why didn't you why didn't you die it? Because it matches her complexion, duh. I guess you're right.

She doesn't know the hairstylist that she knew in the empire anymore. She can't trust anybody else with their roots. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. You know how hard it is to maintain red? It's one box dye and you're fucked.

You'll never get that color back. Damn. So I respect it. Also, yeah. Well, this, I guess they don't realize that they're being fucking hunted. But I kind of like, I think it's,

It's a little swaggy that they wouldn't pick up disguises and they're using their real names. They're like, yeah, I'm Mara with my bright red hair and I'm just going to go check out this planet. Hey, Mara, could you put on a hat before you go out? No, I had my volume. My volume is fragile. Oh, you know, I didn't, I didn't think I didn't, you're right. I'm going to have cat hair for the rest of the trip if I do that. Come on.

Luke might show up. I mean, come on. I mean, I would hate it so much. Oh, my God. It would be so bad if Luke showed up. That would be the worst. So mad. I don't know those farrier's write up, but I can't fucking find fake Dengar's write up.

He's in here, though. Niles is. I wouldn't see if it says anything about the smell of his cigars. It just says the same thing. Just says Armidu Spice and Karaba tobacco. Damn it. And there's no candles on Etsy, unfortunately. Atzies a change game, so maybe it's not there anywhere.

The one thing I do really love about this section, though, is that it's like such a, it's an interesting power scaling thing for her that she can really only move a trash can. As I was reading it, I was really expecting, like, you know, rod in the hand. hit over the head because that's such a Luke Skywalker thing, or I mean, I don't know that Luke is hitting people over the head, but that's what he would have done. It would have been the cool moment. And that like she just barely gets by with this sort of like relearning of her power is really, it's a fun place for her to be in right now. It's one of those things where it's like, oh, right, you don't need, if you could move something a little bit at a distance, that would give

you the upper hand in many situations like this. It doesn't have to be a whole damn thing. It serves a reminder that the Starved Empire Strikes Back. It takes everything Luke has to pull the lightsaber two feet to his

hand. Right. It's lying on the ground in the ice cage. It's right there. And it takes everything he's got to bring it to his hand. Now, later with the greatest Jedi teacher in the universe, he's starting to, like, move X-Wings around. Yeah.

But at that moment, like, kind of untutored and just, like, having a little bit of instruction on, like, how this all works, it's, like, that he is done for the day, right? That's the level one maids thing of, like, sorry, man, you burn through your spells. All I did was, all I did was a little telecena, that should barely count. That should be like, can't trip. No, no, man, like, that was, like, you're spending. you got to do a full rest. That's where she's at.

Yeah. And she goes back and she's like, well, this location is burned. We got to go. Should we turn in the secret of the Catana fleet? And cars like, fucking no. Fucking, no, chill. No, we are not doing that. But sometimes you shouldn't chill.

So Thron and Pallion are out doing Empire things. Thrawn's Reck and Shop with a convoy. And he's explaining that, he's explaining that, you know, Faley is going to destroy the Republic about as effectively as if you were in an op. You know, that this guy's going to be so ambitious that even if they were directing his efforts, he could not be more of a saboteur of the Republic than he's going to be on his own devices. And Dron also holds up this possibility. Because Faley has been like staking his entire constituency on the military,

in the new republic the guy is actually poised to be a military strong man despite having no military abilities and throng kind of holds out the possible like this guy could put himself basically in charge of all the guns in the new republic and then there'll be a civil war once but mahma lay in all those people realized like well this this is fucked up we can't we can't let this happen and so thron's kind of like heads you know we win tails they lose Uh, so we can, we can just chill. he also though for the first time we saw him do this in the first book

where he sees a brief video clip of the new Republic of the Millennium Falcon and the Lady Luck docking he's like I know where all the characters are going he's a genius he does the same trick here in the scene and he's wrong about everything he says yeah he says I know what

I know what everyone's doing solo is going to go to that Pilani planet with the with the banking clan uh because he's going to be in a rush to clear to clear uh akbar's name and lea is of course going to go back to ground to continue hiding from the no gree and han has seen through polani he knows there's nothing relevant there he's on his way to new cove and is completely out of their own possibility as far as thorn is concerned that lea might be going to honor uh the no gree home world or onager I don't know how they're pronouncing.

Onager is how they say it in the audiobook, yeah. But it is honor is like meant to be in there. You know what I mean? Like it's meant to, it's H-A-H-O-N-R-G-O-R or something like that. Like the word honor is meant to be evoked. It's honor with a G-H tossed in there. Yeah, exactly. Onager.

But yeah, so the first time. It really does sound like a Klingon planet. Actually, no, I'd say that out loud. We, he's doing his little trick again. And he's wrong. And then he makes another bet. because Peleon raises another issue at this moment. There's a battle we didn't see,

but Sabiof was at doing the damn thing. He was doing the operation of Tanab. Yep. And he just ignored the orders of the commander on the scene. And Pelion's like, that's mutiny.

And Thron, real shit eating is like, it is. You want me to throw him in the brig? And Pelion is not, to his credit, is like, He loses his shit at the casual.

He doesn't like that Thron is sporting with him in this way. And he's like, we keep bending the rules for this guy. And first he ignored one direct order to nab. Next time he'll be two, then three, then four. And he holds out, you know, soon this guy is going to be doing whatever he wants. What's going to stop him? And Thron's like, see my cat snake? He does say that.

We have a lot of these around here And he's like Saga, that's a crazy old man Guys, you know, basically his mind a shot You can't You know, you can't You can't do long-term planning

You know, this is just a sick Crazy old dark death Is the subtext part of this Is part of the subtext He's a clone who has like Clone Brain I have to imagine so Because I feel like

Thron would have more respect, even if he did have disdain, he'd have more respect for somebody that was a real Jedi. Like, I feel like there has to be a clone. Unless it is, like, that's my read too, unless it is this blind spot around Jedi that he's like, doesn't think that they're shit because he doesn't know, like, I don't know. I don't know why he doesn't take Joris seriously. I wonder, is it also just because he's seen the guy,

he's seen the shape that, that Sabayov is in? Like, we don't know what the Clone Wars are. In Zon's vision, we have a sense that, well, it meant clones were involved, and clones maybe were bad news, and maybe they did, like, tend to have breakdowns in this exact way that would be debilitating. But I think there's also just a degree to which Thrawn's, like, gotten a sense of what Sabiof's issue is are.

And he's like this guy just isn't, he's not with it enough to be a threat to us, or at least to me, that, you know, to be a successful warrior, you need the ability to hold on to a thought. You need to be the ability to have self-discipline and long-term planning. Sabayat doesn't check any of those boxes. We don't need to worry about him. Yeah. That feels like, this feels like a fateful conversation. It does. It does.

But there's something about Thron is that, like, he doesn't even really see Luke as a threat, though. He doesn't really, like, we've talked about here. He isn't really, like, thinking, like, oh, Sabayoth is going to get Leia and two Jedi kids, and that's going to be a threat to the empire in some way. Like, I think there's just, like, I don't, like, the perception of the Jedi, and we haven't gotten to the Luke, like, thing here. But it is interesting how. like, the respect for them seems cultural.

And Zahn has an interesting way of, like, you know, writing about how different people feel about that. And I, like, there's just something in, like, for Thron in his travels and in his experience, he did not get the thing that, like, this makes you a main character. This gives you plot shielding in some way. This is, you were a threat to situations because you, You can read the room in a similar way that Thron thinks that he can even, that, like, you know, the perceptive spirit of the Jedi is not something that he even recognizes, much less as respect or fears. We know he rolled up on the real Jorosabe off with warships and killed him.

Like, that's the other part of this is he killed a boatload of Jedi. Like, literally, a bunch of Jedi masters were on this thing. This is the outward flight, yeah, out of flight, right. And so I do wonder if there's an element. of like, I'm sorry, I just, I just don't see it. Like, y'all keep talking about, like, a Jedi, and, like, I blew up a bunch of them, and there wasn't anything special about their ship. It didn't help them.

I wonder if there's a little bit of, like, there's a little, we fight on that lie here, which is that's like, all right, he shows up at the beginning of the first book, and he's like, you know what went wrong for the empire? Y'all were too reliant on the emperor's Jedi battle meditation. now that's real the battlementation is real he knows that it's real it benefits them it's important he says in this conversation what do I want to do not use the weapon I have but at the same time he doesn't he's not at your point about like Luke he's not talking about like Luke as a threat you know think about how much of the original trilogy especially in umpire strikes back obviously in

Return of the Jedi. It's like, yo, go get that Luke motherfucker and stop him from destroying the empire. Like, that's your mission, Darth Vader. Like, he's a threat to us. Get this one guy. Go get this one guy. He blew up the Death Star. And Thron is not, Throne doesn't have any of that. There's no, we got to take Luke off the board. Luke, as far as Thrawn is concerned, Luke is not a hero unit on the map that you have to go deal with. Luke would tire. And there is no Death Star. I'm not fighting, like, there is, no grand like central like pillar to the plan exactly there's no big there's no big red spot on the on the final boss there's no final boss there's a fleet and the fleet is decentralized

and luke can come blow up a spaceship if he wants to but we will be able to survive that we are like we are building a force that's like a contemporary ship that doesn't have a central hub it has droids and it's going to be it's going to be able to be more um uh dynamic and more more uh consistent than that old model where you put it all in the fucking Death Star and tried to blow up a planet at a time. That's not what we're doing this time. And as part of that, it's like he can't, therefore, put more emphasis on the Jedi because he needs to, his ideology is, fuck the Jedi. Fuck the idea of one big superpowered guy. We're distributed now. Like, we'll deal with them. When they pop up, there's, it's almost like he's, it's almost like he's, he's discount. counting how powerful one person can be because his entire worldview is one guy can only be but so powerful, right? And it's fundamentally a weakness to put too much, too much power in one basket as it stands. So you know what?

Let them send Luke Skywalker after me. Fuck it. That's their mistake. Because if we can just off that dude when he comes at us, that's going to be the best thing for, that's their version of us putting too much power on the emperor. Also, you'd argue that, like, bring me the head of Luke Skywalker is where the empire goes wrong. It goes wrong, exactly. The whole thing falls apart because they're like, let's, we just got to get this one guy.

You've set a trap for Luke Skywalker? Why? It's one guy. Focus on put Darth Vader out in the world to do stuff, to do real actual beneficial for the empire shit. You know, don't let him walk around in the back and try to scheme against me by going after Luke. That's bad. And but again, at the core of this is the conflict, the clear thing, the emperor really did give everybody power. Joris really is giving everybody power.

So it's like you have to accept that that's true and at the same time deny that you want to base your entire culture around that and deny that one guy could ever be that powerful, you know? It's contradictory, but I think it's a really fun central contradiction inside of Thron's mind, which again, I think you can start. lining up around things like, you know, this, this is a book that again says out the gate, huh, interesting, there's only 12 grand admirals, and we know that the emperor was racist as shit. So if he gave one of the grand admiral spots to this, to this blue alien guy, that must mean something wild. Like, he must be really good. So again, there's this sort of like, you know, Theron is a little bit. He had to work twice as hard for half as much among the grand admirals, right? And there's something kind of fun about having him be on the side of,

so-called meritocracy, you know, and how that, like, this is a very, it's a corrupt vision of the world, but it is also one that if in his vision of the world, the people who are like blessed by the force should not fucking matter so much. Now he is, is he doing this to rebuild an authoritarian regime? Absolutely. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Nevertheless. Is it true? Is it accurate that, we aren't aware of any other imperial resurgence. Like, this is it, as far as we know, is Thron leading this particular endeavor to rebuild the imperial army to regain or accumulate more planets under imperial rule?

Like, there's no one else out there, as far as we know, working for the imperial in this way. I think we've maybe caught wind that there have been loose imperial warlords, right? Like a governor of a planet has maintained their governorship and have become like the local regional warlord. That's part of what Akbar's military has dealt with, right? Clearing out imperial remnants. But as far as big organized efforts that anyone cares about go and mobile efforts, it seems like Thrawn is the guy. Okay. That makes sense.

the EU from this point fills in tons of that but it does like this is the last time this is the only story where the empire really feels like it's all pointed in one direction under one one ruler and a lot of those stories are like and here's another person who sucks and we just got to go beat them up yeah yeah i was well we have that moment of everybody being shocked to even find out that a grand admiral like exists right in that meeting scene. But I do think, like, it is interesting, especially when you have all of the Republic, like, inner politic stuff, that, like, we, there is not a guy that Thron is checking in with. He's certainly outsourcing, like, materials and stuff. Like, there, he is access to a power. But we're not getting his version of the, I have to go to a meeting and have to get my things approved. Or I have this weird interpersonal conflict with another grand admiral or whatever. yeah yeah it should be interesting to say like him had not being in full like war commander mode and having to go be like okay so how's the new currency doing are we getting the old money

out of circulation like those those meetings would be would would be interesting uh you know it's funny to imagine him like your your your art history degree isn't going to get you out of this one bucko like you're going to have to like sorry pal uh you got to you got to you got to minister this, like, complicated, like, tributary state. Mm-hmm. I also like that in some ways he's, in so he's like, yeah, he's the ultimate military commander in some way. Like, but for Pellion, who's like, and the wrong kind of treats in this way, like, a simpler, less complicated person, a less grand division, Pelion sees things very simply, but also maybe with a degree of truth. like mutiny aboard warship is a serious thing

like you either deal with it severely or you have major problems that like this is not this is one of those red lines that you just don't play around with that's sort of foundational to keeping military discipline in order which is the the backbone of this entire thing

and certainly is the backbone of his character you know we see that in the first chapter of the first book and Thron's like we can let it slide and that is anathema to Pallion because like letting things slide means more things are going to slide. Right. And the other component of this is, you know, again, like Pallion is a commander in a, you know, racist, you know, authoritarian state, but also does have just like basic understanding of like there's a certain way you handle situations and people. And so as the conversation turns to the no-gray,

once again, it's having these like uncomfortable moments of just the, the willingness Thrawn has to just like speak openly about basically needing to go slap the no-gris around for not getting a job done. And like, Pallion's often thinking about how is this going to go over? How does Rook, your no-grey bodyguard, feel about this? But also, how is it like, how is it going to,

to land with the no gree to to show up uh at their planet to to go yell at them now it's very funny that's choosing this moment to visit them uh it's so funny it's gonna be it's it's gonna be cards dinner party times too i was gonna say that's just what this series is about is is guess you to dinner over and over again you know i love it not that maybe claire guess it goes to dinner as a movie is not oh my god you wouldn't believe the coincidence of this but but it's that but coincidence. Imagine if Sidney Poitia was going to kill everyone. You know, I've seen that movie.

There are times when he would be in his rights to do it. Forget, is he the head of the World Health Organization? He's something like that. He's like one of the most important doctors of all time. And his girlfriend's parents are like, but he's black. I don't know. Oh, I'm so glad you, I'm so glad you could have me over.

A partner of him a little tired. I'm a little, I'm a little tuckered from my Nobel Prize ceremony. Exactly. And my, and my nighting at the Court of St. James. And, yeah, yeah. By the way, I found the, I found the evidence not Dengar. Here, it's on page 53 of the Last Command source book. It's a little piece of microfiction from his perspective.

It's the story of him trying to kill Mara Jade from him, from his perspective. his name again, quote, her shadow is quite simply intergalactic riffraff Gunner Groth who was a two-bit bounty hunter more suited to being a bodyguard for low-level crime bosses

and shaking down debt defaulters and hunting criminals on the empire's infamous locate and detain list a copy of which was stored neatly in the datapad at Groth's waist and there's a whole bit about the locate and detain list

which is basically just like it's the FBI's most wanted list for the empire and bounty hunters just have access to this thing that is like this is who you should be going after as a bunch of famous rebels and mara jade is on that list along with talent card and other people chuckling to himself the filthy scarred bounty hunter checked his weapons charge and made sure his dengar quote unquote ID was in place after all it never hurts to use a known hunter's name to scare the target or score a higher bounty from imperials he thought he was already mentally counting the pile of credits, he was certain he would get for capturing the

red-haired firebrand. He set off into the nearest alley, planning the snare that would net him Mara Jade, the latest edition of the Empire is located in detain list. Passer-by ignored the muffled blaster shots that rang out from a nearby alley a few minutes later. It was several hours before anybody noticed Gunner Groth's body. Got his ass. Get out of here, Gunner Groth. You're You're not Dengar, you're not Dengar Roth. It's very funny that the last name, some familiarity or like similarity, that's not how it works. You don't look like the person on the ID.

It's not that your last name has to be sort of like there. You know, that's not how it works. Anyway, very funny. He don't have it. You don't have it. And he's dead now. Saabeoff has it a little more than Thron might think. So we get two visits with him

In like first of the end of the first chapter And then here And there is a through line Thrawn is right that Sabioff struggles to hold on to ideas But he does hang on to them And it's actually, there's a little bit of poignancy That like Sabboeuf is constantly like struggling

Against what he knows or encroaching disabilities That like he is aware that what used to come easily No longer does He is aware that he used to be able to hold these ideas together used to be able to like follow through on on intention and now intention escapes him uh same as his attention does but there are things he keeps returning to a bit obsessively that are functioning as long-term planning and like shaping of intent he had and and the weird thing is his the my read on this passage thron's bringing up

the absolute best in Sabayov. Because they're getting under each other's skin so much that Sabiof is starting to his existence is starting to be formed in opposition to like Thron keeps trying to like you know put him in the corner. Throne keeps trying to control him. Thrawn doesn't know

what power really is. Thrawn said you're a has been. Maybe he was on to something but I'll show him. I will, what was I going to do? Apprentices, yes. And like Thrawn thinks power is like a big empire. No, it's not. Power is shaping minds. Yes. Like you just totally like mold someone like clay in your hands. And I imagine that they're a, they're a force sensitive. Like you have an apprentice that you just created. I'm going to get me one of those. Maybe a bunch. And then we'll see what Grand Admiral Thrawn has to say. And it's like, is Sabaev kind of shot a little bit? Yeah. But, but.

He's also his last dance, Jordan, and I took that personal. Like, I am going to get one over on Thron because he keeps goading me. And he doesn't know what he's messing with. Yeah. And, like, it is becoming, like, Sabiof is becoming a little more lucid as he is attempting to, like, follow through on his plan. Now, to Natalie's earlier point, we just have had two in a third book of Sabriath going. like, hmm-hmm,

hmm-hmm, and like, it hasn't gone anywhere yet. That's all he does is he-hees in the corner and he's not doing that shit.

Well, he's evil Yoda. He's evil Yoda. He's a little evil Yoda. And we're going to see, I, like, we just,

I'm excited to get there. We're so close. We're so close. I can't wait for this payoff. It's going to, it's going to go crazy because it's, it's,

It's been, it's been cooking. He's been, he's been twiddling those thumbs and, and, and, and, and, and touching the fingertips in front of his, in front of his face and, and knowing that he's, he's, he's got this great, great plan coming up. He doesn't even seem that, like, great, great, great plan coming up. We got a great, great plan, don't we, folks? oh god yeah we'll see we'll see what we'll see what you can't wait to see it i can't it's gonna be it's gonna be you've never seen something like it people there's never been a plan like it there's never

been a plan like this folks like this guy who keeps tweeting i'm working on something big and then launches a bunch of anime teaser that's right God, anime fucking, if he's in a lot of a dark Jedi t-shirts, they're going to be sick as how. Oh, big things coming. Check out my T-spring.

So other fun thing. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. So Han, Lando, and Luke are headed off to New Cove. Planet Little Shop of Horrors.

I love this shit. they're on this lush rainforest planet that like is a vital resource for like medical chemical components uh because of like all like the lush uh plant life with their weird compound and stuff just one little catch um the plants eat people and everything the plants are like the plants are carnivorous and they're like monstrous in size and so this entire planet is these like fortified habdoms dropped in the middle of a jungle that's constantly trying to eat them and does this come up like is this relevant to no no it is just it's just flavor it keeps them stuck in the hab domes like it makes it hard to like there's only one way

in and out of the domes and it's through like the central docking procedure bay or whatever right so they can't like just jet out the way that they did on Bifash, for instance, right? Or whatever, one of those other planets. Yeah. But you're right. No, they never, like, tangle with, uh, the big man-eating plants, unfortunately. Yeah, maybe fortunately.

The Kevin J. Anderson version of this is like, they're fighting giant planets all the time. Like, that's, that's just this whole chapter. My favorite part of this planet is, it's part of the new republic, yes. However, it has regular raids by the empire that no one seems that shook by. They just show up. and they take their medical supplies, and they leave, and it's all, like, very orderly. And it's, like, the way that they're paying taxes to the mob, basically. Like, they're paying their cut.

You know, we just go through it so that it's not like, we've joined the empire. We're so part of the New Republic. You know, they're taking it from us. But we don't have to make it a hold to do. People don't have to get shot over this shit, you know? It's great. I also love in this sequence, what sort of leads up to the raid. We'll deal with Han, getting.

this group in a minute, but this is my favorite little Luke bits right here. It's another Lando and Luke bit too. But it starts with Luke. He's just hanging out of the bar. This reminds me a little of a canteena. Yeah, sipping my hot chocolate. It reminds me that time I was in the hive of scummit villainy with Ben, except it's kind of inverted. I don't know what I mean by that, but it's it's like that, but inverted. I don't know. It's kind of a fine bar, but like it's not really that skeezy, but it could be. He went from One from going

Like he's had two Exactly two bar experiences And he went from like A A dive bar In like Just With the shittiest people

You could imagine Uh huh To Like Albuquerque Exactly To like I don't know Like a fucking craft brewery or something

That is the vibe of this place Yeah Right Yeah Yeah It's so funny. He's like, hmm, they have hot chalky here, but the vibes are different for some reason. This place crackles with dangerous energy.

Look at these sinister denizens watching all these different sports games on the Hall of He's such a baby. He doesn't know about the world. But he's just, he's just trying to hang and be like soaking up the vibes. And then all hell breaks loose, somebody's like, you. lie. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to cut your face off. And then, you know, bartender's like, nobody's, everybody chill out, everyone cool down.

And then one of the people involved in this fight, the two people start pulling weapons on each other says, you're a liar. I invoke the Jedi. The Jedi will, the Jedi will judge. And everyone, it's a great bit. It is the record scratch. Everyone's head, everyone's head swivel toward Luke. in one moment.

And it's like, you to settle the dispute, the bartender said, relief evident in his voice, a relief that Luke himself was far from feeling. Me? Gulp, you know. He's so, he's like pulling on his collar, like, uh. You're going to play the fucking Doug interstitial music and cut to commercials. Like, it's, it's, he's not ready for it. Roundabout begins to play.

Yeah. It's so funny Everybody knows it's not just He knows that he's a Jedi But the partner's like you're Luke You're Luke Skywalker You're the Jedi Knight right Well like this is what Jedi do

Jedi mediate conflicts Here's a conflict Don't they That's the other part of this Is like First of all This is like We know from the first book

This is basically Luke's nightmare Like he's been hiding out Trying to like Because people are like Oh the Jedi are back That's cool Right? So the Jedi, bring back the Jedi order. Great. And he doesn't know what that means. And so he's kind of like, I hope nobody expects too much because I don't really know what I'm doing. And then, yes, unfortunately, he's a galactic celebrity. And people are like, that's Luke Skywalker. You got to, you got to be the, you got to, you got to rule on this. You got to be the Jedi. Yeah. That's where Jedi's are. And he, well, he talks, again, or he,

in co-tore mode. It is so co-tore mode. Go talk to NBC2. You know. Okay, wait, you have to go back to NBC1 and then bring up what you learned from NPC2. Which companion did you bring? Thankfully, Luke brought Lando.

Thank God for that. Oh, my God, so important. This poor Rodeon, this poor, I felt so bad. Like, it's not his fault. He got, you know, given some imperial. you... Lando's like, we all know Rodeans suck. He does say that.

Damn. Would you talk to Uncle Ono like that? I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Yeah, so the deal here is there is a Barabelle, which is, I don't know that I know the species. Barabell Star Wars. Let's see. They're like lizard people.

They're like Sorians, is what this says. Sure. Okay. This one seems angry. the one that's on the image on the Wikipedia page. He looks like he's like a bunch of knives. How about this sexy Barabelle? Oh, I didn't see the sexy one.

How about, how about Barabelle Jedi? Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Oh, dear. Yeah. Are you allowed to be sexy in a Jedi? Oh, wait, so this is that dude. Hey, is this the same species of that dude in Clone Wars who gets killed during the

investigation, the missing lightsaber thing where Master Sunube and Asoka are out investigating. Oh, maybe. The jango jumper and her girlfriend killed that dude. Yeah, maybe. Is that due to barbedo?

I think no, because it doesn't show up as an appearance of the barbell here. There's, of course, the way to find this, we did search for a jingo jumper, the Torellian jingo jumpers, and then work backwards from that. No, that guy seems to

have been. No, that guy, that guy's a, um, that's just a trans-ocean. That guy's just a big trend. Good look though, Rob. He does have a similar vibe as far as real similar. The lizardy looks are. There's something like slightly frog. It's like, it's like if an alligator was also a frog. Yeah. I'm not sure this is what Thron, what Zahn actually has in mind, though. This feels like once again, someone's like looking at Trondotions and. Yeah. Either way. So, this guy has been hired to kill like bugs

little bugs eating the side of his ship and go kill them go burn the nest he's a level one character Luke's level 10 you know so he's like he's going to go he's going to burn the nests

he comes back and he gets paid in no good money and it's a little gold colored metal chip that says a hundred in each corner with a bunch of lines in the center and Luke holds up this money and he goes Does anybody know what this is?

What's this? Does anybody know what this is? At that point I would have been like this kid doesn't know shit We were we're fucked Like we're never figuring this one out But you know you can't put it on one dice roll You can't put it on one bad conversation check

So someone is like Oh it's the new imperial script You can only spend on an imperial held world And Luke is like, damn, shit. And he's like, all right, Rodeon, did you tell this lizard guy that you were going to pay him in Imperial money before all this? And the Rodeon responds. And Luke doesn't know Rodeon, but thankfully Lando walks in exactly that moment. And he's like, he says that's how he was paid.

And Luke was like, Lando! Lando, you're here. He gives them a big hug. They don't write this part. gives him a big hug at this part we usually have to fill that part in. And he like spins him around. That sounds right. And they start to piece this together. This is how the empire is doing their business. I love the bit where the barbell or the barbell is like shutting up other people in the room from like. It's so funny. Is that what I was like, yeah, the empire's been doing that

lately. And the barbell is like, shut up. I want to hear the, I want to hear the Jedi. The Jedi is the who's here to do this and he works out hey what's the it's unbelievable how where this goes it's insane where this goes Luke reaches out and is like shit we have to figure this out does everybody know what the exchange rate is between imperial script and republic credits and no one says anything because obviously you don't want to out yourself to the Jedi that you might traffic an imperial script and so he reaches out with his with his with his with his force sense and he's like wait a second wait a second niles farrier niles farrier you carbaba tabak and our mood of smelling motherfucker you definitely do work for both sides what are the chances that niles farrier is

here on this bar come over here come down by the footlights come on up yeah yeah come on stay Come on stage. Come on stage. Nile's Ferrier, everybody. Clap for Niles. And now that he's brought his whole cast here, he can unravel the situation, revealing that there's a four to five exchange rate. And then he like gilts Niles into being the exchange guy. But he wants a better rate because, come on, man. Like, we got four one time. We're not going to get four next time. and everybody turns on Niles and Luke realizes like everybody loves the Jedi and he's like the hero in the story

everyone's like Rudy like Luke Luke Luke they don't literally go Luke Luke Luke Luke but they may as well They all buy him a chalky milk after Yeah basically And he saw as a situation But he does go back to the Barabal It's the beginning of this by the way

The Barabelle killed a droid Which is why things are jumping off A droid tried to stop them from arguing And the Barabelle the lizard guy killed the droid And Luke is like, but I do need you to pay for the droids repairs. And the bar of all is like, that's fair. That's fair. I expect the Jedi again speak truth.

I accept judgment. I also love the moment where like they won't put their weapons down. So Luke just turns on his lightsaber and like holds it in between. No, my favorite was at the end of all this. He raises his lightsaber as a salute. like as if that's like a thing you do at the end of mediating he's like all right and now

salute yeah it's in the gavel hit yeah it's so funny he's so funny he's figuring out as he goes you know this is maybe one of my favorite Luke moments of all time Luke's so good

so good this is so I think if I had to pin down the reason that a lot of the other stuff in the EU never hits as well is that people get lost in Luke Skywalker Jedi Master and he's a lot like the sort of waxing figure we see in the Mandalorian.

Yep. Oh, here I am. I'm going to spout some Jedi wisdom now. I'm going to quote Yoda. I'm going to sit here and meditate. And one, that's just kind of annoying, like, fate for Luke. Like, it's what happened to our little space adventure. Yeah. But also, it's just not a dynamic character.

And so many books subsequent to this, especially when he opens that fucking academy that, like, the Kevin J. Anderson books are all about, where the first thing that happens is like, oh shit, there's a Sith here. I better fall asleep for an entire book.

That literally happens. Like Kevin J. Anderson's like, I'm just going to put Luke Skywalker basically on ice for like over a third of this trilogy. Everyone wants to read a book where Luke simply sleeps. And but even later stories, Luke is just like,

hmm, yes, ah, interesting. I am the serene Jedi master. I will. And there's just not much of the, like, imposter syndrome, Luke here that is so much fun. It's so good. And, like, he zeroes in on it. And he's like, okay, damn.

Like, it works. It says, thanks. Luke murmured his mouth dry. And he's talking to Lando. It had worked all right. But it had been more luck than skill and he knew it. If Farrier hadn't been there or if the ship thief hadn't decided to back down, Luke had no idea how he would have solved the dispute.

Lay and her diplomatic training would have done better than he had. even Han and his long experience at hard bargaining would have done as well. It was an aspect of Jedi responsibility that he'd never considered before, but it was one he'd better start thinking about and fast. And it's like, yeah, like, sure you can tell the story that's like, and this is what puts Luke on the pathway to one day being the wise, whatever, that he is. But like, this is the juice of the character, is him realizing, oh, I have to do this work to, like, get better at this.

Like, this is what the public expectation is now. And that's the other thing that this little snippet does is like this vignette fills in the gap of what are the Jedi a little bit. Like in the original trilogy, we get reference to the Jedi Knights. We know that they were warriors. We know that maybe they were sort of mediators or they were wise people. You know, we can see the symbols of them as being wizards and monks and samurai, right? We get kind of like that, those evocations. But this is one of the first times that we've seen this particular.

model of Jedi Master, Jedi Knight, wandering mediator, wandering troubleshooter, the wandering judge... Militant Judge Judy. Militant Judge Judy, exactly, right? And like, this is the predominant image of the Jedi that we end up getting for ever. This is what prequel Jedi are in a real way, you know? And the thing that they're probably so endearing is that Luke Skywalker are beautiful boy, is like, I'm no good at this. And it's like, but you were perfect. And that's the,

like, it worked out perfectly. And he's right of all the ways it didn't. It probably shouldn't have worked out. And he's got that humility. But also it's like, but no, you are actually good at this. Like you are somebody who figures your way through these. If it hadn't gone that exact way, you can easily imagine Luke thinks that just would have fallen apart. But we've seen enough of Luke Skywalker that like he probably would have muddled through to something similarly like a similarly decent resolution. Right. But it is the fact that the hard contrast here that is calling up is to a new hope where what

happens in this sort of situation in a new hope? Light him off. Oh, my Kenobi fucking cuts that guy's hands off and kills the other one. Yeah. Yeah, that is a trick because like, you know, the thing that Luke keeps coming. back to is like, Obi-Wan and Yoda taught me so much, but never about this thing. And it puts into context, like, what was the future that they really imagined for Luke outside of their expectations of him? You know, and like, you know, even in the beginning of this book, we have some

sense of like, Obi-Wan was still, like, they're teaching him about, like, poison. Right. You can do that. Blood-deaf. even as he was a force ghost or whatever and you know there's these sort of like blanks that are being filled with lessons with Yoda um and like none of this is like this is how you carry yourself this is how you act with people this is the way people are going to consider you and like you know there's either the thing of like they saw in Luke this mild-mannered fair noble guy and thought he would go through it. Like, he doesn't need the explosive training.

That's the part he has down. Right. That is in his heart. You know, that is not a thing we have to teach him. Or they weren't thinking past their own sort of selfish goals. And there it is. It can be both. I mean, it can be off.

It can be off. It can be off. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I, uh, one of the things that is so good about this book is this sort of, or these books so far had been this sort of thing to like meditate on is like who is this person what is there what is core to them and then like how could they have changed how could they change in

different ways and luke is like the core of that because he is the one who suddenly doesn't have all the the people who shaped him around him anymore not that like han and leah didn't shape him in some ways but like he's a he's the student and all his teachers are fucking dead now what do you do Who are the new teachers who are going to be around him? And, I mean, Mara has a bit of that, too, right? That's part of the mirroring with Mara and Talon. We skipped the line that I love, by the way, back in Chapter 5, when he's explaining all this stuff about the dreadnought, the bit where he's like, we don't give up the dreadnought

during, under duress. And she's like, we might have to. And he's like, we may choose to. We never have to. And, like, that's about as good as Jedi fucking. wisdom as in this book, right? You might decide to deal with the devil. You never have to. You could always take the negative consequence. That's always available to you. And it's really fun to see teachers and students in this book and now to see Luke absent his teachers needing to figure out

how to get through, how to muddle through until he can do it for real, you know? I think some of this. And no, heading, by the way, heading like a missile to a new teacher. I think some of the stuff that makes this stuff really saying, too, is, like, you often give a sense. Some of this comes from George Lucas with his background and deficiencies, right? Like, Lucas wants this, like, semi, like, I'm a guy who, like, I'm interested in the precepts of Buddhism and, like, Eastern thought and all that stuff. And, like, warrior monks, but isn't really, like, it's not like he's rocking a theology degree as he's. He hasn't really thought through the revocations of a lot of the stuff. And similarly, like, when we go, gets around the prequel trilogy, it's like, I don't know that this is effective pedagogy at all.

Like, this is not, I probably wouldn't, I probably wouldn't train people this way. Disorders lasted thousands of years. Like, do you know. Oh, monopoly of violence. Okay. Well, that makes me more sense. Now I understand. Like, when you, like, they only make sense when you think of them as the, the single location of the republics.

like military strength and ability to do violence inside of its own state. Then it makes perfect sense. But as just a religious order, it's kind of nonsense, you know? But you get a sense that like Zahn, you know, like his stuff,

he's got this hard science interest that feels like the guy might have done some academic work or has been like close to academia and has seen other mentor-menti models and like how do you. And like his thought about that. And how people like,

come into themselves and how they receive wisdom and how they kind of reject it in ways they feel really earned in ways that like you know in the prequel trilogy it's like this is kind of this is not at times it's like it's very heightened but at times you also feel like this is not particularly

vividly or well imagined that this is not this feels like it's not quite insightful about how this relationship would have would have gone down right like I think it's fair to say there's a lot you could, there's so much in Alec Guinness's reading about what went wrong with

Vader. And then you get the story in the prequel trilogy and it never quite has the Gravy sauce and like it never pays off what you felt lurking behind Alec Guinness's reading of the line. That doesn't quite feel as paid off when it's like, I got the high ground Anakin. You were supposed to be the chos. It doesn't quite, doesn't quite feel like it lands.

But Luke pulls it out here. Also, so does Han. Han, flawless victory. Trax Phalia's aide, who is identified because he wears a big, big chain. Yeah, he's got the flavor of flame on. There's a lot of people wearing chains in this, right? Isn't Samyoth wearing a chain on the cover of it? Saanath has a chain on the one cover.

Yeah, the one, the box, the, the, the, the book. cover i want to say yeah not this one though this book cover is also you know what it is though zan once again star wars is permanently in the 70s that's right that's right i see you know what foolishly i'm mad somebody not having longer hair than they probably do this is the thing rob i was i literally was just having a conversation with some friends about this because the thing that struck me was ezra could totally say do you have games on that thing and Luke could never because Luke is from the 1970s

and Ezra is from Lothal and has iPhone face. Exactly. Ezra grew up playing with an iPad. Ezra loves Ezra loves Fruit Ninja. Ezra fucking loves Fruit Ninja. Lothal has apps.

That's the thing. And it's Star Wars, so it makes sense. This is not, I'm not cinema sinzing. Lothal has apps. Tattoine doesn't have apps. That Tatouine has pickup trucks. Tatooine has as you hang out at the football field

and get high in the bleachers. Like, you listen to Freebird. Tattoine is tall cans. Tattoine is tall cans. Now, do tall cans also exist on Lothal? Yes, after Zeb brings them. You know, because it's one galaxy. We know this.

Zeb's not from Lothal is what's true. That's right. Exactly. Zeb is from the 70s. Yes. For sure. A Miller High Life and what else? Exactly.

do you need? Nothing. That's it. This is putting Star Wars outlaws into context for me, because that's also doing the 70s thing. When I play that game, I'm like, why does this, this woman talk like Marge Simpson? And now I realize she's for the 70s. That's why.

The Montalamari, like, broke her, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's kind of dripped out in a 70s way. And she has changed, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

You know Star Wars in 70s is like the coolest To fucking be 100% She's Jane Fonda in my eyes She is Ferrier Oh the main category

Wonding out that long Cigarillo Yes You know that guy's trimmed out in fur You know Like any question? Come on No question

I mean again Even the car culture stuff In Star Wars where the spaceships have the sort of like the spaceships are cars in that way right and like Luke working on his on his personal x-wing is a hundred percent guy in the 70s who's working on his car so like well it's kind of weird that's one of the things that makes card a little weird his ship is a giant flying like container ship basically a bulk freighter huge like i haven't looked up i haven't looked up with the wild card it's just it's just the impression you get of

Luke's impression of it as it arrives. Like, he's like, there's no way that thing's just stopped it on time like that. That thing is huge. And it's like, Hans, like, I'm going to carry this cargo of moonshine or spice around. Yes. Like, he's got a big trunk on that thing. But, like, it's not a cargo. Like, there's like, you know?

Yes. It's not good. You're going to get a semis worth of goods aboard that ship. Well, that's the thing is like, that's why he has to carry stuff that's, uh, he used to carry contraband. it's valuable even in small numbers, not traditional transport goods, you know? And Card, to Allie's point, the CEO coded, is like, he doesn't, yes, are the ship's top of the line? Absolutely.

Is he out there hot rotting them? Not really. You get the sense that, like, they keep a brisk, a brisk schedule. Uh-huh. He should be in the garage. Yeah. He was? He should be in the garage.

I think it would help him out. It would help him out. He meets him. Undercover boss starring talent. Oh, my God. Undercover boss, starring talent. So what do you think of,

what do you think of Mr. Card? I'm just curious. Like, I'm kind of new here. Strokes his, strokes his oddly died goatee and like the fake sideburns.

They sort of put on him. Oh, you know what? Don't actually tell me right now. We could, can we get dinner and you could tell me over dinner? Because that's where I do my best work. Oh, yeah.

No, like, Mr. Card. Yeah. We just call him talent. He's fine. But like, oh talent you call him talent is he's like one of the boys then you really like relate to him uh i mean like i don't know mr car just feels like maybe too respect i mean i don't want to say we don't respect him but like you know sometimes you just

want to look sometimes i just want to do a job and get paid in in money and Talon is like, hey, if you ever, if you can just get a secret, then take the secret. Uh-huh. The fuck am I doing a secret, man. Trust me, it sounds cool right now, right? You're like, ooh, what a mysterious Mr. Card and all that. You work here a few months and like, you haven't paid in hard currency in weeks. And it's like, I have a piece of information that is worth a king's ransom.

Last week, he paid me in sim cards and steaks. What am I supposed to do with that? Try getting a dream canteen with a secret. Watch what happens. You lean over bartend and be like, I'll give you a piece of wisdom for that drug. I'll tell you what happens. He gives you a QR code to scan this and move along.

Anyway. So, Han tracks Brailia, Phalian's assistant. His name is Bralia. It is failure. Failurelia. Shut the fuck out. And he tracks into this mysterious meeting with this group of like,

hard to describe. A bunch of, like, they're led by middle-aged women, middle-aged woman. Yeah, graying woman is what they keep referring to her ass. But she just seems like she has her shit together. And it's very polite. She easily gets the drop on Han where he's like trying to like dime out their location. and she's basically like yeah it's a little hard to find from there we'll help you you know we'll help you you're fine you seem a little lost

and so Bralia shows up and I can't believe this this dude lays one eye like just lays eyes on Han is like that is a spy you have to kill him immediately he he just he blows everything he blows everything up he sucks at this he sucks at this zero chill zero chill this is a this I know this is Braley and not failure

but Faley is taking an L here if this is Falia's guy it's not making a good shilling Your guy is ass at being your guy he can't do the job I love him fumbling through this

and being like he's a spy and you should kill him and even if he isn't a spy by the way because you don't know that he's not Han Solo I just don't think that he's Han Solo because, I mean, he looks like him, but... But even if he were, like, he'd be so bad if Han Solo learned about us, too, right?

Like, we wouldn't like that. So, Han Solo, no solo, just... I'd shoot him, is what I'm saying. It does not work. You guys aren't shooting him. These women are not taking it. No. They are like, uh, no.

Uh-uh. We're going to put a pin in that. Right this way, Mr. Solo. Luke will be right with us. I want to know what he's up to, though. Failure or walking around? Balea, yeah. Being a loser.

He clearly has some relation with these. He's doing something with these ladies. Right, yeah. I mean, I don't know. This is the planet that the, that the Bothans that is the only place where the Bothans intervene during the Clone Wars, right? This is the only planet that they've ever... Sorry, during the rebellion, that they've ever given a shit about.

I just mean, like, we only see his anxiety, right? And we know Han is here for a reason. We're going to get more from this women's, but it's like the way that we're cutting up this book, it's like such a good cliffhanger of being like, well, why are you nervous, motherfucker? Like, what's really going on here? So I'm excited.

learn um so first they got to bust their way out of here we get a fun little action sequence of them uh fighting their way out of the hangar and we get all of them using their superpowers uh together as a group luke distracting stormtroopers uh lando using his beck and call uh with with perfect perfect timing precision they just they wreck shop they escape through the big

mail slot on top of this dome there's a bunch of star destroyers in orbit there's tie fighters everyone Hans like Luke do that

thing where you like touch their minds and like kind of mess with them a little bit and then we just kicked their asses I loved that

that was great and Luke's like oh geez it doesn't I don't know that's so good for me guys you know what I'm saying

right and Hans like no no no no just do the epic epic mind trick do it now we need to get all this fucking planet now but then

I don't think so this woman Senna and her partner Arenas are like we got this and indeed they do three dreadnots show up out of nowhere and start kicking the Star Destroyer's ass and as much tie fighters ever

Luke is separated from the group they don't know where they're going they're going to secret base of these people so Han's like Luke we can't tell you where we're going to meet you go back to Corrassan Luke's like bye and then he's like no R2 we've got to go to Joe Mark

to meet this cool new Jedi master we'll see how cool he is that's where we leave off and Han's gonna go back to base with this group Land organ are going aboard yeah the dreadnots with these mysterious ladies who's who's up there

who's he about to meet I don't know who can say it's an exciting it's an exciting he knows him he he he knows who there's some sort of

yeah yeah right yeah the way that Senna and and her Arenas arenas yeah pitch it is like we have someone

who can't wait to see you again and they're right over here and just right this way and again it's the rare person from Han's past who seems excited to see them

right see him rather than kick his ass like this is this is a very special like Zahn knows this is this is an unusual thing for for Han someone who is like pleased that they're reaching out and getting in touch with Han Solo

and not like murdering him right so that's already where this is unprecedented territory for Star Wars speaking of going to new territory well starting an old territory Leah is going to rendezvous with Cobarock at Endor yeah she's hanging out at Endor

just floating in orbit and they're just passing the time and she blacks out it has a horrible excruciating like psychic streak blacks out and she figures out like that was weird what could that have been she looks at the orbital trace

oh, it's where Palpatine died. The Death Star, like, grave in space is full of just, like, bad vibes. Real bad vibes. Let's not go through there again. I love this beat. This beat's really fun. At first, I wasn't sure if it was the Emperor's death.

I wasn't sure if it was Vader's death and, like, Vader's specifically. Also, just like, the Death Star blew up and countless people died there. You know, really, and then it kind of underscores, it's where the emperor died. Like, that's what really matters. And you know what I love, a Sith ghost. I love the Sith not being eradicated at death and being able to haunt specific places.

I like that power continuing to exist in strange ways. I like when it stays strange and when it doesn't, you know, coalesce back into a simple thing that you could capture and potentially put into like a clone body, for instance. But like, you know, it's fun The idea of like there are certain parts of the fucking galaxy You don't want to go through because it's dark Some shit shit happened here is fun And she's like, let me get away from that orbit Let's dodge that little bit of the orbit, please

And then we get some wild Chewy They, Zahn was like, I'm gonna make you very clear Chewy's his own man, Chewy makes his own decisions Chewy isn't out here just listening to what Leia says Yep I mean the fact that you want to lay out exactly Let's let's go a day in the life Yeah so a day in the life chewy

Chewy first of all is like This is a stupid idea You should not go talk to the no gree Because you're Lady Vader That's dumb You're not Lady Vader You didn't know that man Except for that time he tortured you

And then he blew up your home planet Why are you supposed to be Lady Vader now Because you smell like him Stupid to go ahead I was just gonna say and she's like well we need you know we need to make peace with everyone we can and bring them up not leave this one leave this one I don't trust this one this is dangerous so if you're gonna go if you're gonna go you should bring me with you you should bring us all with you but you should bring me with you at least he gets to come along as the pilot and

she was supposed to show up with no one she was supposed to show up by herself and so now she's going to bring Chewy as the pilot and then also bring C3PO as the protocol droid and translator. Chui does not trust any of this shit. And I am sympathetic to everyone involved here because it's clear as they as they get towards the rendezvous that this other guy, what's his what's his name what's the what's the what is it one more time cabarock kabarok actually kind of gets where chui's coming from because he's like oh lazy i can possibly explain me why i can't be separated from this guy but it's like really like some deep and cabarach's like you you know you know what he like that situation i rock with that

yeah we have we have that too and chui is like i this i still don't trust this guy but all right let's get on board the ship or whatever they join they go to his ship. Is that what they do? Where's the Lenium Falcon at this point? Parked in orbit. Parked in orbit above Endor? He's left that in Ennoy?

He walks going to steal it? What could happen? Like, it's perfectly safe. If I'm chewy, I feel all sorts of ways about leaving the Lenium Falcon just hovering above Endor. Where the fucking empire is going to try to possess the damn truck, Leah. All right. Let's get on board. They go for how long is this short days.

Four days in this strange ship ain't nothing to do. Leia and C3P are in this ship talking about, hey, maybe we- Pause, great cut here where Leia's lie, I've got four days to learn everything I can learn about the no-grie people. The next line, we get paragraph break. Next line, Leah learned nothing about the no-grey people across the next four days. to this guy at all. She sat in the corner, and with C3PO, they know one no-gree word, which is like... He doesn't know shit.

It's like, Meera, what is it? Mar-A-Rouche, which is the title that she and Vader had. And just talk to C-3-P-O was like, so what do you think it comes from? What's the etymology of this, hypothetically? Go ask the guy. No, he won't talk to it. In her defense, yeah. He's like,

Cabrach, like she starts picking up that Cabrach might have buyer's remorse on this whole plan and you'll not be baited in conversation. Three chapters ago

or one chapter after this, I forget which, Luke is like, Leia's such a smart diplomat. Now is the time to use those diplomatic skills because let me tell you, if he is buyer's remorse,

turn this shit around right now. Now is the one moment you have the opportunity to turn this shit around and she's not going to do it. Maybe Luke's not a reliable narrator. It's just he's, He's baby bro.

I know. You're right. This guy is specifically dodging her because, like, this situation isn't as secure as he told her. I know. And Chewy can sense this shit. Chewy knows it's off. Because what he had said was, like, what Kabarok had said was, I'm going to go talk to my people and let them know that Vader's daughter is out here and she's the true air.

And then I'll set up a meet. And he didn't do any of that shit. he floated around in a spaceship for a month being like oh I gotta get ready for this he didn't tell anybody about this he didn't literally he was just like maybe I just don't show up maybe I just don't show up I'm telling you how long she's gonna be in that door

Chewy can smell that it's off for four days Chewy is walking around the ship just being like huh how's this work let me look at the circuit boards he's like opening and closing various hatches aboard this ship just trying and you know that that's like an angry pace you know what I mean you know exactly that energy it's like being on a road trip with someone who like won't stop fidgeting with the glove compartment and the overhead light and like huh what's all this

do it's a car chill out the gap has never been more closed between my father and I know you're in the traffic jam what's going on with this car I have to think about something else. Let me also like I love the beat that like Chewbacca is like I need to figure out what's going on the ship because if I have to pilot it right to protect Leia because this fucking guy is here. Yeah. I'm going to need to know how to do that. A hundred percent. I love it. And they get to the planet and the planet is ruined. The planet is fucking ruined. And you know what? Point for Leia. She looks down and she's like, damn, I wonder who's to blame for this. And then she's like, eh, I shouldn't. It's. It's.

Us, like even if it's not fully us, the Republic fucked up here. I didn't know we could ruin a planet this bad from a space battle. This is pretty messed up. And we did not do shit for these people. I get how, however it happened, the Emperor and Vader manipulated these people into loyalty. We got to figure out how to fix this. Chewy throughout all of this is mostly like, this is a trap. You were going to walk into a trap. This is all going to go bad. This is all going to go bad. And what happens? What's the one biggest? We already know it's coming. We know it's coming. Because Thron has said to Jerush or to Pelion, don't worry. I'm going to go have a conclave or a concave or whatever the fuck it's called with all of the leaders of the no agree.

And so as they're hovering above the planet, a fucking Star Destroyer comes down. Let me tell you, Allie, your thing about your father? I have never mapped the image of an angry man walking more than when the star to show your show. Do you know that the current TikTok trend of the kids telling their mothers to shut up to see what the fathers will do? Have you seen this trend? I've seen this before, yeah. A nightmare trend. Could not be me.

Are you kidding me? Nope. So it's like a kid will tell their mom, shut up. Yeah, it's a trend. Multiple. Multiple. Yeah. And then while secretly filming the dad to see the day.

Dad, like, jump up out of the chair. Like, what did you say to your mother? This is Chewbacca jumping out of the chair. The Star-Tron Starder Shrier shows up. And he's like, I got to be in the cockpit now. This is my ship now. I got to take over the ship now. And, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Cobbrock would never do this. And he's like, absolutely not. And he comes in the cockpit. And no, first, first, Cobrock decides he has to open the door. You're right, because Chewy is making the ship ring like a bell as he begins hammering his way into the cockpit. Yeah.

And Cobarach decides that as bad as it is going to be with like letting Chewy into the cockpit. We may as well open the door. It's going to be worse if he just has him rip the door down. And Cobbrock and he's getting ready to fucking hit him and Cobbrock does some MMA UFC shit on him, which I feel bad for Chewy. Chewy's from the 1970s.

Kabarok is from 2002. He's seen three UFC DVDs. He's been in the Brazilian jiu-jitsu class for three weeks. And Kabarok is watching old boxing matches on VHS. Or sorry, and Chui is watching old boxing matches on VHS. He is not ready to get the leg sweep, switch around, judo toss done to him. But he's only going to let that happen to him once. And so he's going to close in on Kabarok.

And then Kabarok uses some sort of secret stuff. Sun weapon in the ship to knock Chewy out. Chewy, I truly love all of this for Chewy because Chewy is generally written as and Chewy was there. And I love that we finally have Chewy being like, no, this is stupid. This is ridiculous. These people are bad. And I'm not saying he's right.

I just love that Chewy gets to be, gets to have a little bit of a different perspective on everything here. This would be like a worse sequence if we had chewy brooding for four days and then being like, but Han said it was okay. Exactly. Exactly. A hundred percent. Does it lead to the stupidity of fucking Thron being like, well, they answered the phone call

three seconds late? Br. And they said it was because of a mechanical issue. and did they did they you know did they run a test to see if the issue was real or did they park in the garage

where that would get fixed no he went home first maybe he just wants to take a shower maybe he wants to go back to his apartment Kamrock actually kind of has good answers for all of this it turns out it is a common mistake on the ship or on this type of

like communications module well hang on when you put the only reason this all gets pulled up because Chewy does get one more big dub here before all of a sudden done. What am I missing? What I'm forgetting? So eventually, like, we'll get there. We'll get in a minute, but like later the empire is going to investigate.

Like, okay, let's see, like what was actually wrong with your ship. Yes. Chewy, the second he realized the empire's coming here to like see what's up with Kabarak arriving, runs back in the ship, doesn't tell anyone who he's doing. Yes. And he is faking this exact malfunction. that would explain everything that is part of Kabarok's admittedly like bullshit story.

Because he's been studying how the ship works for four days. He knows ships. It's such a good job that you get like the technician where like Thron's like so is it suspicious. Like does it look like actually have the malfunction? And the guy's like, this thing fails. Like all these things fail. Like the parts are kind of shit.

And so like this is kind of just happens. It's endemic to the to the parts. And so I want Chewy to rip Thrawn Red flags flying everywhere Fron's like I guess we can't call him on it yet It just struck me that I want

Chewy to be in the ring with Thrawn for 16 rounds You know who I want Chewy to be in the ring with? Who's that? David Filoni Forever suggesting

that a wookie would not be able to make the technological decision-making, as he did in the television program, the Clone Wars. You can refer to a previous episode of this podcast. True. In which false claims. Is that that arc?

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I would like David Filoni to read this book. right and just read this read right now Dave Filoni's read these books a few times Okay well clearly he did not

He didn't internalize the no he was just like Blue Man Cool Blue Man Cool And and Chewy Very good at ship And technology's true That's true That's all I'd like to say

I was thinking the other day Chewy's not flying the falcon when they engaged Arvader Hans in the gunner seat but you can't fly the ship from the gunner seat that's right. That's right. That's Chewy is the pilot. Yeah, Chewy's only who's keeping them in sights. Yeah. Chooey's good at this.

Yeah. Give Chewy some credit. Mm-hmm. Damn. Anyway. This is like the interview with Cyclops. So like what do you do? I lead the X-Men. It's like, so what do you? I'm the Captain William Falcon. So like you take care of ship, you repair it? No. Like the repairs

My first mate My companion Chewbacca He does most of the repairs Like most? Like 1% 100 Okay So who pilot you're the captains You pilot it

Well Sometimes I can do that But Chewbacca really You know for the day to day You understand You know slipping away Through an asteroid field For instance

That's Chewbacca You know So what do you do? I love Hans Solo I'm not going to dis Hans Solo But cool so they land

and it is so clear these books are funny than I remember it is so clear immediately Cobrocks full of shit that nobody is happy to see Leia here and he hasn't he hasn't prepped the ground at all

no do you think he is like particularly into the Vader stuff do you think he's just not happy with how things are back home and, like, talked himself up into what this could be. There's such an implication he's a dumb kid. And he is young, right? They note that the Nogri, like, Leia, or Thron, like, they notice that, like, Nogri is just get darker and darker with age.

Right, right. And Kabarok is, like, bright silver. And there's a lot about him that, like, now that you start meeting other Nogri is like, oh, this is a kid. This is a kid who panicked. This is a kid who, like, just didn't, like, had no idea, no idea what to do. But also didn't tell anyone I'm going to bring Leorgana to this planet.

And so Leia goes in there to meet, like, the head of his, his clan. The matriarch, except it's not called matriarch. It's called Matroch. Oh, what could that mean, 3PO? Oh, my God. But, and there's this great bit. where she so so immediately they're like shut the fuck out cobrock what are you done and leah is like time to introduce them to the daughter of vader and puts on her courtly airs is this how you speak to

the malarouche and the matrock replies i greet you lady vader but i do not welcome you and what's very funny is a few minutes later thron's going to show up because he's got he's got his suspicions about Kabarok. And Pellion notes that the Matroch can barely speak basic. It's all horrible, mangled, simple sentences and all this. And so the Matroch is falling back on that oldest of techniques, pretending to not speak English really badly so that people will just give up and get frustrated and just like leave you the fuck alone.

And meanwhile, like she's talking Leah in terms of nuance. Yeah, I didn't even pick up on this. That's extremely true. God. Well, we also had gotten that really funny bit where 3PO is getting super judgy about the no-gree and is like, I'm certain that they're from pre-spaceflight culture because people love pre-spaceflight cultures love royalty. And Leah is like, ahem, I have to remind you. that Alderon loved royalty too but then

three pages later she's like three people as assessor of the society yeah three people have called this yeah echoed through her mind apparently he'd know what he was talking about there's also grim detail just as she's talking about what she should bring to the planet and she's like anything dangerous

stuff on the planet needs a blaster and cover acts like not anymore and it's like oh okay it's not going to be not going to be good but throwing gets there and you know we get it from paleons perspective which is that the diplomatic ceremony stuff of this is just mind-numbing uh you meet all the clan elders people do respectful uh like courtly dances uh to pay respects palayon's bored out of his mind uh but the second the thron

here's kovarok is back they fly out to his tiny little village to just hey man where have you been Hey, you're the one guy who lived back on Kishik. What happened? We didn't hear from you. We thought you were, like, dead. And he has, like, huge, incredible slacker energy here where he's like, yeah, Keshik. Oh, it went so bad that I needed to meditate about it for a while. I woke up and everyone was dead.

So I just had to I had to go and then And I got knocked out Which that's on me But I didn't you know It's like a wookie 1 v1 You know But I woke up

And I got back to the ship Which is of course That's what you trained us to do And I took off And then it was just meditation mode Which I know you can relate to Boss So why didn't you come back home to meditate

Couldn't do that Couldn't do us my guilt guilt it was guilt it's what she said it was guilt meditate on the shame that I was bringing home I felt so bad

that I sucked so bad that I couldn't get home until now basically so but then I was like so it was like late and so my ship was broken but

why didn't you power park your ship back at the place where they'd repair your ship I'm meditating so long I was just like, my family's going to, like, pretty worried about me. You know, clans, we're super tight. There's the bit where he's like, well, they didn't tell me to park it where they'd fix it. I love that.

So bad. Can't argue with that. That's right. You got me. You got me there. Well, he didn't tell me I had to fix the ship. Still runs. Still runs.

Yeah. I had to go home and see Mom. I had to go home and see Mom. Oh, you know what it's like. So the excuse kind of sucks, but the, the job that Chui did, making the ship look busted, passes muster. They fly out of there. Thron goes to Irkame, who's like the head of the over-clan, like,

command council, like, Clan Kimbar is who the, is, like, who Kabarak is part of. Earkame's like the head of the whole clan, the whole tribe, not just like local village. Right. And so he-Yak-mus-style title card with him as like the head. Clan Kim Bar. Exactly. Head of the entire Kim Bar. Yeah.

Association. Yeah. And so, Thron's like, so what do we think of all that? And the problem is people from other clans like immediately start taking shots at each other. and Rook, his bodyguards, like, yeah, he probably did have a lot to think about from sucking so bad. And the guy on Kimbar is like,

I'm sure he did have a lot on his mind, actually, from serving the empire so nobly. Of course he was nervous. Of course he was, he was scared. He was, he was properly overawed by your presence, my lord. And Rook continuing not. help. You sure it's because he just isn't such, didn't take

somebody else on Khashik that he can't even bring himself to, to gaze upon our Lord? Irkaheim swiveled around in his chair. It is a naturally unsettling experience to face the Lord of the Noghry, he said. Quote, particularly when

one's hands are wet with failure, Rook countered. Damn, your hands are wet with failure? That's, you fucked up. Good idiom. Good idiom. Good idiot. Sons of his were wet with failure. Damn.

So. Yeah, but the other thing, Rook is like, that guy was nervous. That guy was, that guy was scared as hell. And so Thrawn's like, hey, Rook, why do you take air came up to another part of the ship? We're going to have a little one-on-one-on-one time with me and Pallion, and we're going to figure out how we do this. And so, Thron's like, this is all bullshit. He's lying. We don't know he's lying about.

we're going to spy on him. There are decondroids, decontamination droids that, like, work at this village. They're going to put a recording device on one of them. And it's just going to hang out, listen in, see what's up. And that's going to, we're going to get to the bottom of what's been up with copper rock from this, from this droid. So Theron says he's going to stay at Onager as long as it takes. to figure out what coverock is is concealing and leah is hiding in a bakery

so that they're thermal scans don't pick up her and chewy that's so funny it's I hope the bread is good the hijinks are afoot true that's what I love about these is that there is a good balance of some silly little hijinks silly moments

and um Like mostly that That's it Yeah Mostly silly little hijinks Well it feels serious to the characters But also it's like This is the most

This is the worst possible thing That could happen That's great Yeah I love how Pelion Like never Almost never Is like on the same wave

As Thron And Thron will be like He'll be like I don't know why Thron Would come to that conclusion That there would be you know something untrustworthy here but the one time that

he says something right this isn't like the first chapter I think of this book he like blushes and when Thron is like good observation by Leon and he's like blushing and like his face feels hot and flushed

it's really good you know very pink cheeked when Senpai gives him praise yes yes 100% I'm so excited to where this goes

Sorry I also love Pellion at the end here Being like I'm not going to interrupt this This big ceremony Because somebody called late I think that would be so disrespectful If only

If only Until next time Mm-hmm I'm very excited What about the next chapters? I'm forgetting that. It's like chapters 11 through... Are you not just doing 11?

21. 11 through 21. So we're going to read chapter 21. Okay. And then you're going to stop. You see chapter 22. Stop. Don't read chapter 22.

Okay. Read through chapter 21. I'm so excited. Will Luke still be with the light at the end of this next chapter? Is he going to get... Oh, no. It's like... Sabio, he won't even know I'm molding him finally.

I will... He won't even know I'm molding him to, to my... specifications. He won't have any idea. I'm so clever. The dark force might rise. The dark force is a sign of Luke could ride. Yeah, right.

Sabius would do what Vader and the emperor could not and turn Luke to the dark side. He seems goaded. Yeah, I think that he's going to do this. He's been up on the mountain. It's fine. Yeah, he's simply going to do that. I'm excited. We'll find out. I'm so, I am so stoked.

We are so back. We're so back. But with that, we've reached the end of another episode of a more civilized age. Our show is produced by Ricardo Contreras and supported by our listeners at patreon.com slash civilized. So next episode, that is up through chapter 21 of Dark Force Rising. So stick around for that. Until then, please rate and review us on your podcast, platform of choice. And remember to sell the store.

Sabotage that shit. Make it look good, folks. don't just trust your nervous confederate to be able to like just bear faces away through this you gotta you gotta think like what's gonna give the scene some some some some truth very toss yeah Thank you.