A More Civilized Age: A Star Wars Podcast - Bonus: A More Civlized Q&A

Episode Date: January 6, 2021

Later this month, the crew here at A More Civilized Age will be launching a humble Patreon, with a monthly Q&A podcast as a bonus to our supporters. But since that Patreon isn't up yet, and because wanted to give folks a taste of what's to come, we wanted to do a free bonus episode for y'all this week. So, enjoy, and thank you all for sending in your questions! If YOU would like your questions considered for a future episode, you can send it to [e-mail]! And as a final reminder, we'll be back next week with The Clone Wars (2008). See you then! Hosted by Rob Zacny (@RobZacny) Featuring Alicia Acampora (@ali_west), Austin Walker (@austin_walker), and Natalie Watson (@nataliewatson) Produced by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt (@notquitereal) Cover art by Xeecee (@xeeceevevo)

And we're back once again to a more civilized age, a clone wars podcast. I'm Rabzakakopura, Austin Walker, and Natalie Watson. Tonight we're going to be doing a Q&A show based on some emails listeners have sent in and digging into some of the very good observations you all have added to ours. I should also mention and correct me

if I'm wrong, but long term we do plan on making a monthly Q&A part of a Patreon offering. We're still figuring that out, but that's the general outline. So I guess this is a free sample, but I'll add this caveat.

Anything you don't like about this Q&A, it'll be fixed. And frankly, better than you can possibly imagine by the time we're charging people money for it. The Patreon Q&A, that's pod racing. This is just a trial run. I really can't judge us for it. Much like the previous two episodes, the real shit we're about to get into. And part of that is doing some pre-production planning. And Ali, you did some of that for this episode. You were good enough to do a first pass on the questions we were sent in. Do you want to read the first email here?

Sure, yeah. So the first one comes in from Jesse, who asks, why is Attack of the Clones the Worst Prequel film and yet somehow better than Rise of Skywalker? Coming in hot tonight. Coming in hot. The simple answer is just that Rise of Skywalker became the worst Star Wars film ever made. Like, it just, like, sub-marine the prequels.

But why? Why? Why? Because I think this is the second worst one. I think for me the big difference is just like ideas. Like I think when we talk about, we've kind of said it to death at this point, but like these first two movies have some redeeming ideas that you can springboard off of. Whereas Riser Skywalker wants to end ideas. Like I mean that I mean that pejoratively, but I also just genuinely mean like it wants to be the rapper on the end of Star Wars of the Skywalker saga, which means it wants to quote unquote answer questions, wrap things up.

closed doors give finality. And so I don't know, I feel like I'd rather be at the planting phase, the sewing phase, not the reaping phase, if it's going to be bad, you know? Yeah, because then you have the like the possibility of what comes next. Like at least with Attack of the Clones, you're like, the future is still bright here. Like there is still so much potential in like what will come after, how other. people will take these, you know, initial foundation bricks and build them into something much different and much better, hopefully. I haven't started a clone wars yet, but I have a lot

of faith and hope. And rise of, what is it, Skywalker? Rise of Skywalker is like, rise of Skywalker is like, it just feels like just such a petty man made this film. And he just small. And he just wanted to fucking make his little film and have his little answers for everything and just for what honestly what do we gain from this what do we gain from just i i don't i don't give a shit about last names okay i don't give a shit about i don't even know i just i felt like it was just It was such a rebuttal. It was so obviously at odds with the, what's the middle one? Yeah, The Last Jedi.

Thank you. It was so aggressively at odds with The Last Jedi that it was just such an uncomfortable experience. Like that entire, watching that film just felt like, oh my God, can you not fucking let it go? Like, could you really have not let it go for? this movie, you really wanted to do your thing. You wanted it to be the J.J. Abram show so badly that you couldn't even bear to think that anything in The Last Jedi had any redeeming qualities that you would build off of into this next movie. I think that is what just has me so salty on it. And like, Finn doesn't exist basically for the whole movie. Yeah. And like, it's just, it's... It's not only obsessed with

answers. They're bad answers. They're bad answers. It's the, literally when that happened, I was like, you have got to be fucking kidding me. When it, I was just like, who is still thinking about him? I don't even, I forgot about him for like ages. The dead speak. The dead speak. That's how it gets you. It was just, yeah. That's why I think it's worse. Also, Hayden Christensen, never mind. Oh. I was going to say, I mean, I had a moment of weakness and I was going to say Hayden Christensen, you know, is hot and you are really watching his debut, which I feel like is an exciting thing. But I don't think it really, it does anything. But is it an exciting debut? I mean, like, look, you're looking at Hayden Christensen. Okay,

fine. You're looking at, you're watching Hayden Christensen act. I don't know. I think the prospect of Hayden Christensen, it's like a, it's like, okay, just watch the first episode of Bridgeton. It's like the debut ball, you know? It's like, this was... It is. Natalie is the Queen. Ready to pronounce who's going to be hot shit this season. Hayden Christensen is the one who passed out. Who is the Anakin of Bridgeton? Okay, let me think. At the, at the Queen's house or whatever. So, yeah, those are my feelings. I don't think Simon's the Anakin. I think that's too... I don't even know their name. yet, I'm sorry.

You'll get there. I just got here. I know that Allie's been watching it. Also, we have a lineage with Regency Drama in this past. So I think that that's accepted. We absolutely do. Any other return or I guess rise or Skywalker? I'm in a similar place is what you all said, where like I think it's like desire to answer questions is a real down part of that movie.

I think that, like, that's also some of the pitfalls that the prequels start into. Like, any time a Star Wars movie is like, I got to tell you about something I don't usually want to know. The other thing for the Rise of SkyWorker that really got to me is that it, like, just didn't have any respect for the audience. There's, like, four different fakeouts in that movie where it's like, oh, no, this thing happened. Oh, no, this person died. Did you read the one today? Did you read the one today that Spielberg made them walk back? No, wait.

You know, Babu Frick? Yes, sure don't. I love him. Do you have the little guy? Little guy, Bobbius. Oh, yes, he's great. He's a key part of one of the things they walk back, because remember in Riser Scott was Spoilish, Rise of Skywalker, right?

It's going to happen. They erase C3Fio's memory for like three scenes or whatever. It's fine at the end. Babu Frick is the one who does that. Yeah. So the planet Babu Frick is on gets fucking glassed, right? Like, that's one of the things that always contributes to my rate of Rise Skywalker being like, I don't understand why anyone would show up to help these motherfuckers.

Everywhere they go gets ruined. They ruin that parade planet. They ruin the planet that's all rainy where Babu Frick is. Everywhere they go, whatever they do, it just gets worse for the people there. So I don't know why anyone comes to their aid at the end. Anyway, that planet gets fucked up because they're looking for the heroes there. And apparently when he saw it the first time, Stephen Spielberg said, but what happened to Babu Frick? And so they re-added Babu Frick into the big finale scene.

and they put him in someone's cockpit so that he would live. But, like, no, he fucking died. Let there be consequences. Like, six people die in that movie and they walk it back each time. Bad. Who else died?

I don't even remember. Chew-Bacca? Remember Chewy? Oh, fuck. When Chewley died. No, no, no, no. Fake, fake, fake, fake. There was a second ship in this clear blue sky.

It's basically the prestige happens. Yeah. Anyway. It keeps happening. Yeah, I would also say, fan service after a point becomes a huge fucking bummer and it's actually not very far

and this is something that Mandalorian is already towing the line with a little bit where it cannot see an opportunity to do a callback to something in Star Wars Deep lore without being like yeah let's

let's bring it back let's give you this cool moment and so far it's been on the side of like these moments do land they are pretty cool overall the series has a decent arc that even if you take this stuff away, you still have kind of a cool story. Rise of

Skywalker doesn't. It does feel just like one thing after another being shown to you under the assumption that you'll just lap it up. You know, you love Star Destroyers, right? You love Death Stars, right? What if it gave you a million Star Destroyers and all of them were

death stars? Right. And it's like, that's not cool. Like, after a point, that's the opposite of cool. But the movie just starts throwing these absurdly, like, heightened things. at you one after another to the point where it's almost it's a bit like um you know that that urban legend about like you know you work at the candy factory they'll just let you eat all the candy you want because you eventually get sick on it and then you won't touch it so that's that's how

you train people to not like you know eat the candy at the candy factory uh i don't know if that's real but i think what rise of skywalker does is like completes that analogy uh for star fandom we're like by the end of that movie at like every time it's it's pulling these rabbits out of its hat where it's like and it's these guys they're back by the end you're like go to hell i'm sick of your shit movie this is exactly the thing is i i hate it when i feel like while i'm watching the movie that someone is like watching me like yes it is like i feel like he is behind the screen like waiting yes to see my reaction to all of his little jokes and giggles.

And I hate that. I don't want to be perceived. I don't want you to be... Natalie Watson, 2020. I don't want to be perceived. I mean, who can't relate to that? Yeah, I'm with you. But we do not want all our art to be,

to have the feel of being in a focus test. No, it is exactly that. And it's like, it's, it's your, it's like your least favorite friend in the friend group. but everyone goes and indulges them to see the movie that they want to see and they've already seen it like six times so they're just watching you the whole time

waiting for your every reaction to every twist and you're like bro I don't even like this shit that much and I like you less Natalie's speaking from experience here lots of Natalie's friends right now being like I do was last time I thought movie searching their memories, being like, uh, when did I take? That was me when we went to see Emma.

No, it wasn't. I was like, yo, cannot waste this part. We were both that person looking at everyone else in the room. That's actually true, yes. But yeah, that's the whole thing is I just, I hate like the wink, wink, wink, nod of all of Rise of Skywalker. And that's why it is so much worse than Attack of the Clones. Attack of the Clones sucks. Attack of the Clones sucks because it's just like a bad mood.

movie. But Rise of Skywalker sucks because it's like, it's trying to be really, really good. And it's just, it's that like, I don't know, that, uh, self-indulgence that just feel, I don't know. I guess Attack of the Clones also has a different self-indulgence, but it feels like, like what I said last episode where it's like to sell toys or to like sell his, like, his graphic design, not designed, CG graphics. Why is every character in sacrament clones wearing a goofy t-shirt? That's my beef with it.

This feels like self-indulgence of awful ideas. Yeah. Austin, do you want to read this next rather meaty email? Who's this from? This seems to be from someone named Cato. A Cato appears. A Cato appears. There you go on Twitter.

Quigon's view. the force as having a will that not only you can influence, but if allowed, will influence you is a big part of the reason that his plans seem to lack forethought throughout the film. He's acting on intuition with the belief that the force leads his actions and impulses, a thought that is very the secret slash mindfulness slash manifesting-esque. With that in mind, I have a question about the fight between Darth Maul and Quigon slash Obi-Wan. Throughout the fight, we see Obi-Wan get his ass handed to him repeatedly by getting kicked around by Maul. When they all get separated by the laser walls, we see Obi-Wan start

to pace a bit while Quigon meditates. When the wall opens and Quigon goes on the offensive, he's mortally wounded by Maul, and what reads to me is a very simple mistake. He leaves himself open by going for an overhead attack that seems uncharacteristic to the rest of his fighting style to this point. Here we finally get to my two questions. One, do you think that in some way, if he's truly allowing the force to work through him and influence his impulses, that the force led to this mistake purposefully in order for Anakin to be trained. Did the way Quigan lost ever feel off to anyone, or am I reading way too much into this? Two, Obi-Wan is very obviously affected by Quigion's death.

He screams as his master is cut down before him, and his attacks become more aggressive when he's finally able to go get his go at Mall. To me, this reads as a sort of attachment that the Jedi Council frowns upon when they're grilling Anakin, and it definitely feels like his strong feelings towards his master are partially what let him ultimately defeat Maul. Is Obi-Wan actually a bad Jedi in the sense of following the strictest dogmas of the council? Is his defeat of Maul, the first chronological movie-wise example of ignoring the old no attachments rule working out well for someone? Could his loosey-goosey adherence of the Jedi dogma be part of the reason he's one of the small handful of Jedi to survive into the original trilogy?

Thanks for reading what was meant to be just a couple of questions. Very excited for y'all to dig into the meat of Clone Wars. Let's say it'll go back number one. Number one, do we think that the force led Quigon to lose here? If J.J. Abrams was writing it, it would be absolutely yes, is my answer. There is an element here that I don't, I need to look it up. While we answer this question, I need to see if something is in Revenge of the Sith or it shows up elsewhere. Go ahead.

So I would say here that the entire sequence does put me in mind a little bit of the end of the New Hope, obviously that is part of Lucas's design for that entire film, but once again, it seems like there's an element of fatalism to Quigon's approach to that final fight, much the way there's an element of fatalism to Obi-1 on the Death Star. And I think it's a reminder that, I don't know, the Jedi can seem very down to earth, very, you know, just folks like us in some ways. But it's also, you know, worth remembering that to a degree this is a religious order with an occasional tendency toward zealotry or a feeling of divine guidance. And so I think to a degree, you're looking at, you're looking at a culture of not necessarily of martyrdom, but a willingness to accept self-sacrifice at a certain moment. And that seems like to me, that is what Quigon's final approach to this fight has always seemed in much the way that you get that, you get Obi-Wan on the Death Star making that really kind of inglorious boast about if you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you can imagine.

And he doesn't. He's just, he's dead and becomes a voice in the kid's ear. So this is the thing that is worth raising because it's something we didn't. remark on in the film, uh, but is what Obi-Wan is referencing here. And I think, I think it has been retroactively been confirmed to be what that means in a sense. Um, after, so I'll just read from the, from Wikipedia, uh, as always, as always, as always, rather, Wikipedia. Uh, in his anger, Skywalker slaughters all of the Tuskins in the camp, feeling great pain and distress, Quigong Jin calls out to Skywalker through the force, which Yoda can hear but not comprehend through his own meditations. Yes. So this happens very quickly in that scene. And this is

the first time canonically that a Jedi can return as a spirit through the force. The thing that we think of as Obi-Wan becoming a force ghost, the kind of talking to Luke in a new hope in Star Wars and saying, you know, use the Force Luke or run Luke run or where, you know, encouraging Luke to turn off the targeting computer. He doesn't say turn off the target, you know what I mean. But all that stuff. And then eventually becoming a physical ghost is a thing that Quigon learned through some off the book shit that was not taught by the Jedi.

That is like part of his side shit. And part of me does wonder if he knew that that was available to him. My understanding is he did not have it perfected the way Obi-Wan did by the time Obi-Wan is able to use that technique, which in A New Hope is very clearly a technique because he kind of focuses himself and raises his saber to kind of concede. And it makes me wonder if that is a similar thing where he says to himself, what is that I can do for beyond the grave that I could not do here? So I could buy into this read a little bit Cato. I could be convinced of this if I did some additional external reading. and I think this will come up in our Clone War stuff as we get deeper into the sequence. Yes.

When does Quigon, are we supposed to hear Quigon calling out to, because it, apparently. It passes me right the fuck by. I need to go back and listen to it, but Allie, go ahead. It shows up if you're watching the, the subtitles. What? I'm going to pull it up. Point one to subtitles watchers. Yeah.

This is why you got to get your, this is why you got to get your surround mixes, right? You get the details on seeing who's talking and yeah it's like Yoda in the Jedi Council like stress and be like oh gosh and you can hear Quigand's voice and it's like immediately after the the Anakin Skywalker slaughter situation and what did he say again? I'm pulling it up here we go he's like oh no Anakin is that what he says the classic Pygon quote we're all saying this oh no you killed You killed the Tuskins You know they're the good They're not bad Sorry about your mom, Anakin

Only I'd been there Do absolutely nothing again Quigon's voice Anakin, Anakin, no Oh, whoa, oh Is what it says here And then Mace Windu comes in Immediately after that

To disrupt Yoda's meditation And Yoda is a weird CG creature still Because that's a bit Where Sam Jackson does that really awkward turn and spin and cross his legs sit in this movie and then yoda looks over at him and it's like what's going on and sam jackson mace windew says what is it and yoda says pain suffering death i feel motherfucker quigon jing has talked to you from on the grave put some respect on his

name yeah you didn't have subtitles on the force fuck yeah right that's what they lost we went over this anyway so that's that's my that's part of my read on on on that that I guess But it's also interesting Because like if the force can lead Jedi to be killed Is the force good Or is the force Is the force

I like this reading because like when I think of the force Sometimes or like when I've seen it written And it seems really interesting It's like half of like a spitey sense of being like Oh I can like You know sense things that are about to happen Or it's also like I've meditated for a long time And I've seen these like

you know, dozens of different futures, and I can choose my way to go towards one path. So, like, I could, I would accept the theory that there's, like, a part of Quigon here that's like, you know, in this fight that I don't think that I'm going to get out of. I'm going to accept this one version of it. But, yeah, I don't know that the force is great. I think the forces, you know, what you make of it. But if the force had its way, is the force, does the force get what it wants at the end? Is the arc of Star Wars what the force had always wanted?

Is there an outside of the... Is there a way to truly resist what the force's big picture vision of history is? Or are we all just predestined or determined through the force to act in the way prescribed therein? I think there is a canonical answer to this, and it's probably no, because this is a series... You only have free will in Star Wars if you've gotten to solemnary. That's a composition. Good. Okay.

Great. I mean, doesn't it have to be? Or at least everyone that knows the force believes it to be? Because isn't that the basis? No, because otherwise you would have more people being like, the force wills it, I guess. Sorry about the fascism. And like the Jedi do keep fighting.

You know what I mean? So, well, you know, well, we'll see. But isn't that, but isn't fascism an imbalance of the force? You know, who could say? This is my question. is that is that something to be like is when things are going bad in quotes isn't that is the is the balanced force the part where we see it where it's like yeah it seems like you're okay if you have like access to money and resources but if you're a slave on a sand planet that's bad and is that or that's acceptable too because the force is in about like i don't know what i don't know how we think the force externalizes itself historically I think, so for me, I think it's one of those things where, okay, the force is real in this universe, but the Jedi order and its relationship to it is a combination of real connection with this force

and also an interpretation of that connection through the lens of a religious order and decades of doctrine, plus the various peccadillos of different schools of thought within the Jedi. And so I think it gets, I think this is why it often feels really murky. It's because the Jedi themselves are divided on these issues. Like, Quigon is clearly the dude who is this close to being a heretic by Jedi Council standards, right? Like, they're so allusions to, well, he doesn't, he doesn't tow the same line we do. They recognize him as being part of the order and part of the discipline, but also following a slightly different version of it. And so I do think, like, you have people like Yoda, and boy, this is also, this is part and parcel of their political position.

The Jedi Council, as embodied by Yoda, has a connection to the force where they go into a room and they basically meditate and pray on things. And then they come out and they say, here's what the force told me. Did the force say? Did the force give clear instructions? Right. Or does Yoda, like, listen to the force, like, sent her, himself and then reach a conclusion that actually would he would have found in self-interest regardless but now it's got this like this uh imprimatur of religious

justification I don't know well and to tie to that to sorry Ali go ahead well yeah I mean because like to answer your initial question was like I think that Yoda would answer this question yes and that's part of the problem of like what we see in the prequels and with the organization of the Jedi at that point where he's like Like, oh, the fear of what I think that Anakin's destiny is going to be is controlling my actions around him. But I'm not, like, actually making the choices that are the best interest for, like, him or the people around him. Yeah. The thing that this ends up doing for me is leading into that second question of, like, basically the bit around is Obi-Wan breaking dogma here.

And, I mean, I guess my read on this is, like, do you? Or maybe it's not cynical and it's actually very, I guess I'm being, I guess I'm speaking kind of like real politic Jedi shit, which is that I think that an organization as long and storied as the Jedi, thousands and thousands of years, right, or hundreds and hundreds of years. I don't know what the timeline is at this point, canonically, understands that the dogma will be broken in the same way that a church understands that people will sin and that sometimes they will sin. for the good of the church, for the good of the temple, the Jedi Temple, to the degree that we know that, for instance, Mace Windus Form 7 draws on the power of the dark side and is acceptable so long as, you know, conditions are met and techniques are used to re-center oneself and not fall into the dark side, right? So I think that something like that breach of attachment or something is actually probably expected by people. I don't think Yoda thinks no one gets attached.

I think Yoda thinks it's good to have a law about attachment so that we're mindful of the attachments we make and limit them such, cutting many of them off completely and allowing only those so strong or so important to us that they breach through. that dogma and you end up with the quag on Obi-Wan relationship, which seems like attachment to me, institutions create laws as best practices, enforce them as dogma, but I'm the sort of practicalist who believes that the people who are in those institutions are often either hypocritical or knowledgeable enough to know that there's always gaps in the process. That doesn't forgive, for instance, someone who is, you know, persecuting people on behalf of laws that they already fucking know are incomplete or corrupt or something. But I don't believe that the, I don't believe that the Jedi think no Jedi ever forms an attachment or that a Jedi who forms an attachment is instantly a Sith. I think that they understand that there is that space for other shit.

And how one Jedi or another will crack down on that coming to attention reflects their own training. and biases as much as anything else. I suspect. Is there a difference when it's Jedi to Jedi? No. You cannot like marry a Jedi. But no, no, I'm not, but is there a teacher and Padawan? So I think here's my, here's what I was thinking.

The Jedi are actually concerned about attachments to things outside the order. Because it is, it is a little bit about preventing them from, retaining parochial loyalties, I would say, because their whole job, the entire order, is to basically go and represent the republic's interests without prejudice or interest in the various situations they're parachuting into. And so the Jedi have an interest in preventing Jedi from having secondary loyalties outside the Jedi order. And then also, this is very pointed in Antiquette.

case, they really don't want you having too many personal attachments outside the Jedi order either. And so I think it tends to be a, oh, well, you know, a child having a familial loyalty, that is a problem. A Padawan being fiercely loyal and protective of their mentor, that's cool, because that's the system. But they would still say you're not allowed to form that attachment. If someone felt, for instance, like, if you had a if you had a Padawan who was like, I'm not ready to leave my Jedi master behind because of an attachment to them. I think you would have Yota lecture that person on not having that style of attachment. And in fact, probably said, well, now you're probably not ready to stop being a

Padawan because you've proven that you have an attachment. You should stay with your master for a little longer or something like that. I don't know. We've just seen it, we've seen it play out a bunch of different ways over the years, right? I think you're, I do suspect you're both probably right in terms of how the law is enforced, even if it's not written that way. Like, I bet there is no subsection that is like, of course, we waive this between Jedi Master and Padawan, but I bet you're right that that is how it is, that there is more flexibility there, right? I think Obi-Wan's probably a really good Jedi, though.

Yeah. I, yeah, for, like, the problems with the Jedi order are organizational. So, like, within the order, there's probably someone who's like, Obi-Wan's bad, but, like. deaf. He's fine. We haven't gotten into gray Jedi on this podcast yet. But like the ideal that like, oh, you could just have the force and not follow the rules and like be fine. Obi-Wan should maybe think about that, maybe. And I think, well, I would also say I'm probably being overly influenced by the Clone Wars here, like versus what we see in the movies. But like, you certainly, the Obi-1 who starts coming to view in the Clone Wars and then the guy you meet in the original trilogy seems like somebody who's grown and changed quite a bit. from the slightly more dogmatic, you know, young apprentice we meet in the first film. So I do think he's also supple in a way a lot of the Jedi that we meet are not. Did you say supple? Yeah.

Okay. I just think some other people would agree with you. Yeah. I agree. Anyway, no, I think that's totally good. Yeah, I think Obi-1's good. Fine leather goods. Mm-hmm.

One thing that this question makes me think about, too, is that, like, in the phantom menace, Obi-1 is still also really unexperienced. Like, I, there's, like, an interesting mirror between him and Anakin of, like, Obi-Wan wanting to take, like, the master test, but not being, not being allowed to by Yoda yet, and then Anakin having that same, like, tension in the next movie. And I think for part of Obi-1, like, I bet when you're a Jedi and you're in your mid-20s, this happens. And you think that you could take the test and you think that you haven't formed attachments. But, like, over time, I'm sure Obi-Wan would react differently to Quigon's death, maybe.

But, yeah. Is he still a Paduan technically in Phantom Menace? No. He's a, I would imagine we would call him a Jedi Knight in the, or in the Phantom Menace, yes. In Phantom Menace, yes, he's a Padawan. He still has the Padawan lock. Right, right, yeah. So, yeah.

Of course. He's pissed. They also start giving these guys their teachers' licenses way too fast. Does he automatically? Yeah. Does he automatically upgrade? Yeah, you graduate into, like, this is the thing. Expanded Universe had this notion of Jedi Knights were not Jedi Masters.

Jedi, like Yoda was a Jedi master capable of training other Jedi knights But just because you finished his course Didn't mean that you were a Jedi master You had to go through some shit And you had to live a little And the prequels we discovered that like Well, you've completed your Paduan training

You're a Jedi master now That's not true. That's not true The knight that distinction is still true The Paduaan Knight Master is the divide Yoda Mayswindu Those are Jedi masters Obi-Wan and Attack of the Clones Is not a Jedi master

He's a Jedi knight I've just double-checked this. But Jedi Knights are allowed to sponsor Paduan's? Yes, totally. Knights get, now, now, is Obi-Wan a special case in which a particularly underdeveloped or young Jedi Knight is taking on a Paduan? I suspect, yes, because it was Quiguan's dying wish, right? That is, he specifically takes that up.

I don't think most Padouans become knights and instantly get a pupil. Right. I suspect most of them. Yeah, but he's sky, but wait, you mean which Skywalker? He does, totally. But he's, but he's Anakin Skywalker. He's the chosen one. Yeah, someone who's obviously manifestly unfit to teach someone the ways of the Jedi.

So maybe it is, maybe you immediately start getting, maybe you get a Padawan when you're, when you make it to night school, whatever. Yeah, maybe, you know, it's kind of like you have to be able to teach. like you're learning from teaching like you take on a student almost immediately to like because you can learn from them what you cannot be taught do you know what I mean okay here is what here is what uh there's a gold answer over on Reddit great clowette God says uh all Jedi Knight were allowed and in fact encouraged to take a Padawan learner actually masters who sit on the council are less likely to have Padawans because they don't go out on missions, quote unquote, with any frequency. A better question might be why they gave one of their best and busiest generals

of Obi-Wan, a Padawan in the middle of a war, and the answer is, of course, that Obi-Wan and Yon just hope that a Padawan would help Anakin mature, which it did, blah, blah, blah. That's a take. I don't know about all that. We see what happens after the clone wars. But yeah, I guess that part

makes sense. The idea of, like, the Gemey Master are not, masters are not going to be good at having a paduan because to be a paduan is to be like a journeyman and you need someone who's like an active you know uh doing the work and masters are not doing the work they're like in the library all day they're they have tenure faculty emeritus yeah they're actually you're right they're faculty emeritus they're not tenured staff right padawans are paddolons are adjuncts knights are tenured and then and then masters are emeritus yes uh natalie do you want to read this next one absolutely uh this one comes from tyler hey all i was wondering who wait i need to interrupt

can i interrupt yeah because we skipped us we skipped a thing right did we what youngling before padalon and this is important because one it means that every every person who's chosen to be a jedi is not a Padawan. A Padawan is something you earn. You become a Padawan by being placed into, by being selected by a Jedi Knight. Youngling is kidnapped victims. If a youngling was not chosen by any Jedi Knight to be their Padawan by the time they reached 13 standard years of age, they would be placed into a lesser role in the Jedi Service Corps. This tradition was later abandoned by Luke Skywalker when he created the new Jedi Order. I got to know about the Jedi Service Corps now. Is it like the Peace Corps? Ordinance Disposal Jedi Right The service corps was considered An honor

Okay go ahead Keep yeah You need like people around Like is the librarian lady In attack of the clones Part of the service order? Jocasta Jocasta knew

I think she's a master She's a master Yeah she's a jelly master She doesn't been her shit But to the people who put the books back Yes Are they service order Ohmies

They don't get lightsabers That's fucked I mean I get it But I guess Don't worry The Jedi The Service Corps becomes militarized During the Clone Wars

The thing that happened is This doesn't exist really in canon It does But there's like no information about it Whereas in legends There's all this Breakdown about the way it worked And

There was the Agricultural Corps The Medical Corps The Educational Corps And the Exploration Corps basically That's cool I like it sucks to be like, you're 13, you didn't make it to Jedi status. Here's a shovel.

You could have been cuter. When the Jedi came through and, like, looked in your various cages, like, you could have been more adorable. Damn. The name of the group that decides what to do with a Jedi who's not been chosen to be a Padawan is the Council of Reassignment. That's fucked up. This is fucked up.

I am I. I would like to read a story about it, though. Oh, oh, I see what you're saying. Yes, uh-huh, definitely. Yeah, I bet there's some cool people in there, you know, just... Yeah, like, I bet there's a cool farmer Jedi who, like, are dealer... Wait, didn't you read a story about that, Allie? About, like, a Jedi who did, like, agriculture shit?

Didn't you pitch me a book about that last year? I read the... And they weren't good. The, like, the, like, medical drama, Star Wars books that I think are set in the Clone Wars where it was like basically Mash but Star Wars and in that it was like oh there's these

fruit that made you really high and sort of forcey for some reason they make you like more sensitive to the force I'm sorry I can't relate to MASH I'm sorry different era yeah is this like Graze Anatomy or something

oh my god it's like war war War-Graise Anatomy. Okay. That makes sense. Anyway. Yeah. That fruit sounds cool. They should bring it back into the rotation.

Sounds like something people would enjoy. That's all I'm saying. Oh, was this the book? Was this Med Star 1 battle surgeons? Okay, good. We're real close to having, like, a vision of the Star Wars tie-in. Not well that, like, Ursula the Gwyn would have. would have written in terms of like just okay well who doesn't get chosen i'm going to write about

them yeah that's what i want like this is basically the short story collection in earthsey it's basically all about like who gets kind of rejected from the magical hierarchy and the entire series is about that but i bet they're still dealing with shit as civil war between the republican separatists rages across the galaxy nowhere is the fighting more fierce than on the swamp world of drongar where a beleaguered mobile hospital unit waged a never-ending war of its own. A surgeon who covers his despair with wise cracks. Another who faces

death and misery head on, venting his emotions through beautiful music. A nurse with her heart in her work and her eye on a doctor, a Jedi Padawan on a healing mission without her master. These are the core members of a tiny med unit. This is, I'm dead ass. Ali, you are so brave. These are the

core members of a tiny med unit serving the jungle world world. It's also a jungle world, which of course, of Drongar, where battle is waged over the control of a priceless native plant and an endless line of medlifters bring in the wounded and dying, mostly clone troopers but also soldiers of all species. While the healers work desperately to save lives, others plot secretly to profit from the war, either by dealing on the black market or manipulating the events of the war itself. In the end, though, all will face individual tests, and only those of compassionate hearts and staunch

spirits can help to survive to fight another day. Allie, you are the bravest person, I know. What's the name of this book? Because I need to add it to my cart. This is MedStar 1 Battle Surgeons, the first of two novels in the MedStar duology. Is this a war over weed fruit? Basically. Maybe, but this fucking Jedi looks sick as shit.

This sounds like, there's a lot of good, we talk a lot about good foundation bricks in this podcast. And I'm seeing, I'm identifying them. in this novel. Whoa, whoa, wait. Rob. Oh, 11 bucks on Kindle though. Rob, look at who it is. What?

Look at the image I just posted. Oh, let me. Here, I'll post another image of her from something else. Oh, shit. Okay. Yeah. Okay. This is a character who's going to show up in.

I'm in. I may not during visit MedStar. One of my favorite arcs of Clone Wars She's a character Oh wait this is the German edition Okay well don't buy that one Star Wars Men's Star 1 Unterfoya

Baris Offi For people who are curious Is the character who are talking about Who shows up in the second Battle of Geonosis arc Coming up in Clone Wars And the following arc which is fucking incredible So anyway Can't wait

Shoutouts to Baris we should move on. I'm sorry. Natalie, Tyler's email. Yes, Tyler asks. Who is, oh no, what? Oh, no. Who is your favorite prequel era Jedi and why? Berris Offie.

Who's that? The woman on your screen on your screen like a set two images. I literally immediately blocked her out. I was like, all right, don't have to worry about her for like a few episodes. All right, she seems cool What's my favorite You have so many to choose from There's so many Jedi

I literally know like five of them And I feel like I know all of them intimately Oh sure yeah I know my favorite is Obi-Wan Which is a little bit like saying that my favorite Ice Cream is vanilla But I can go to any ice cream store Get Good Vanilla

I go on to any side I always think it'd be like, I like thinking about Obi-Wan in this moment. And you can dress that vanilla up in anything. You put vanilla into any context, just like Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan want to have like a romantic political adventure somewhere? He's your Jedi. Want to have like some hardcore military sci-fi. Obi-Wan again.

Want to have like a, you know, soul-rending relationship between a promising but ultimately disappointing student and an ambitious but flawed teacher. Obi-Wan. Yeah. What can't he do? I really like... Train Jedi. Oh shit.

I found the one thing he's not good for. Training Jedi. He was set up to fail. I really liked 80 Gaglia as a kid, but that's what I thought that this is going to sound very bad. I thought she was human with a cool hat on. Oh, no. But that's not a hat or a helmet I've learned. That's a skull?

That's what... Thelothian heads look like. They look good. They have scaled craniums and fleshy white or red tendrils that sprouted from their skulls. You don't know what they do? Okay. You know what? I don't.

I'm just saying. You are. You're saying a lot currently. I'm just saying. My favorite... I mean, I truly feel like I don't know that many. Jedi, but my favorite is obviously going to be Anakin Skywalker because I'm a toxic person.

That's fair. That's fair. I mean, here's why. Because he is asking questions. And I just, I like someone that asks questions of society and perhaps asks, you know, are we living in a society? Why is the society like this?

You know, all of these questions. I enjoy. I don't like it when he's a little bit fascist, but I do like it. What about when he's very fascist? I feel like we just, I feel like we just transported into a parallel like Bachelor Right universe

where Padmey is talking about Anakin. Wow. And being like, you know, he asks questions. They're interesting. He's got such a unique perspective. I don't like it when he's fascist, but. First of all, I'm honored that you would place me as Padmei in this scenario because that just, you know, I think I would fit that role really well and probably do it better than she did. Bad news about where her story goes.

Don't tell me. I actually don't remember what happens to her, so I truly could not say. But, yeah, I think, you know, I just like when someone's a little fucked up and a little twisted and, you know, just a little dark, maybe. Like a Jedi and make it twisted. All right. Yeah. So obviously there's some recency bias here. Because we're getting into the early days.

Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm telling you. Okay, I just was going to say, you can't pick Kylo because I would have. No, I think so far, I really dig Plokoon. Plowcun seems to have his shit together. That is a dude who seems like probably, like, from what I've seen so far, what I would kind of want Jedi to be.

And not with the whiff of. self-interest that accompanies a lot of Yoda that I see in the prequel era. Like Yoda is real interesting because he's, and I think Clone Wars does this really, really well, where it's like, oh yeah, it's the same character. It feels very consistent with who we meet in Empire Strikes Back, but it's all a little tainted.

It's all a little bit like, this guy's kind of full of shit, it's a schick. And usually it's in direction of instrumentalizing others to be an extension of as well. Plokoon genuinely does seem like, if that were all authentic, Plow Coon is what you get.

So I'm here for Plow Coon. We'll be talking about it very soon. Very cool face. I would like to revisit this question after the first season of Clone Wars. Hey, Tyler, just subscribe to our Patreon. We'll circle back. We'll go back to this. Don't worry about it.

We're going to get Natalie over this Anakin thing. I need to be saved. There'd be a lot of Jedi to meet, so, you know. Is he sexy in Clone Wars? I hear he's kind of hot in Clone Wars. Who? Yes, Flo Coon. Take that breather off.

Get over here. Flocoon. See? Oh, love it. We'll find out about Anakin in the future. All right. Our next email comes from Charlie. I was surprised that none of you mentioned.

the classic West End Tabletop role-playing game when discussing your Star Wars histories given some of the deep lore I've heard from Robin Austin over the years I'd assumed that they had spent

13 years pouring over the source books which served as the de facto Bible for the expanded universe until the late 90s did y'all have any history with this game best wish is Charlie I don't know

It was before my time unfortunately and by the time I was ready to do Star Wars roleplay Star Wars D20 existed and I was a D20 like many people I was playing D20 like tabletop games in that era which like woof but that's what there was and that book was really cool and comprehensive and like had a bunch of there were a bunch of different setting books and stuff so that's what I that's what I played but I know the West End game has a lot of fans because of some of the ways that it filled in gaps and you know you know

told you things about the universe yeah I don't even know that I would say it was the de facto a Bible for the EU because it postdates a lot of the foundational novels as well and as reacting to those It's like a late 90s, is it late 90s or is it late 80s? I always forget. Late 90s, I think. Okay.

But yeah, or maybe it did predate that and I just got into it in the late 90s. I couldn't really tell you. I think, was it designed by Greg Costa Cam? I truly don't know. And again, this is like a blind spot for me. But yeah, so

I did play a bit of it, and there were a couple things. One is that... Yes, the answer is yes, Rob. The person who got me into it was my best friend in middle school and high school, Colin. But he was a D&D purist in a lot of ways, and so, to your point, Austin, about, like, you know, D20 systems. He looked at the very D6 heavy system that the Star Wars books used and just didn't like it. It didn't like the way it felt, didn't like the way that it led to a lot of... resolution tables in a way that a D20 system doesn't necessarily always lead you back to.

Also, I would say that the Star Wars RPG often, it fell into traps I often associate with branded RPGs, and also you can probably speak to this more directly, but the fan service point that we were discussing earlier, I felt there was a bit of that in these RPG systems as well where a lot of it was designed to set up really like star warsy beats in the stories and star warsy moments but for me again i kind of wanted um i wanted stories to feel more work a day and more grounded than necessarily because i like this is weird i didn't want to be hans solo if i played a star wars RPG like han solo is like a demi god in this universe like Hans Solo is Han Solo.

I wanted to be like, what would be like to be just like another smuggler in this world who's just like doesn't fly the Millennium Falcon and can outrun Imperial Cruisers and just like what stems from that? And I felt like the role-playing game system often steered you to being sort of these recognizable extremes, these archetypes, in a way that kind of cut against the grain of what I want from stories existing in the margins of these universes? Yeah, I definitely think that that's true because when you think of even the later

like D20 game or if you look at the various fantasy flight games that exist now, that I think are all really good and like fail forward games that have learned a lot from the independency. Like I think that those, if you want to play a Star Wars RPG right now, edge of the galaxy and the, what is the age of rebellion, I forget there's another one that's about being a Jedi, basically. Those things are all very particular of, like, here are what this game is about,

and also here is a really cool system for it. That sounds all good, but even those very much are the, like, here's how you get to play a game where you're a Han Solo. Those are the character classes, right? It's like you could be a Han Solo, you can be a Princess Leia, you can be a Luke Skywalker, you can be a Wedgantilles, you could be a whatever, right? Exotic Jedi was the most interesting class in that source book where it was like, you're convinced you're a Jedi

and that was one of the more interesting things where I was like here's a character who's like real convincing he's attuned to the Forks has a lot of the accoutrema of being a Jedi but kind of an open question as to whether they actually have any of the stuff at all right totally but I also think that like to some degree

there's a huge audience who do just want to play as Han Solo with the serial numbers filed off like that's what I was doing frankly when I played the N-64 game, Shadows of the Empire, because Dash Rendar is basically a Han Solo with the serial numbers filed off, right? That's what I did when I played the smuggler class in Old Republic, because that character is just a Han Solo. And that's, like, very reductivist, but a reductionist, but I also think it's kind of true. And I think there's some appeal to that, though, I will say that, like, part of the appeal of something like the Imperial Agent in the

old republic is that it is so distinct from those archetypes and feels like a new perspective. And so anytime a Star Wars role-playing game did offer that sort of thing, and many of them did, in terms of like a class or something, that always was very appealing to me. I only ran the D20 game like twice maybe. But the thing that I always remember being frustrating about it to some degree was playing inside of a world where Luke blows up the Death Star and that has to weigh over every, that has to be the biggest event that happens in your campaign if it's set during the time the Death Star blew up. And like, you could be the Bothans who got the plans for the

second Death Star. You could be the group that, you know, smuggled the torpedoes necessary to blow in the first, blow up the first Death Star. You could get people off of Alderan before it explodes or something. But, like, the gravity of that timeline felt so hard to break away from. Now, I would just create my own, like, moment in the history of Star Wars and try to tell a story separate from that fiction. Allie is smiling because she knows what the fuck it is. Instead of trying to only play inside of gap

or like periods that are so heavily defined. But yeah, the West End one just missed me somehow, unfortunately. One day I'll actually play that new fantasy flight one instead of just reading those books, but you know, it is what it is. Also shout out to Scum and Villany, which I think is a pretty good Star Wars kin game.

You could run a really good Star Wars game with Scum and Villany. obviously it's called scumvin villainy they know what the fact is they're doing all of my Star Wars role playing experience has been text play by post I recommend it you know any rules

you can just start writing about stuff and also all of the characters that I've played on Friends of the Table have had a dash of Hans Solo in them so I also recommend that true people should listen to Friends of the Table where Ali gets to play a character who is what if Han Solo used to be

Beyonce Also, briefly, to your point, Rob, about the kind of ways in which these games were used as tomes. Apparently, Lucasfilm considered the West End Game Star Wars source books so authoritative that when Timothy Zahn was hired to write what became the Thron trilogy, he was sent a box of West End Game Star Wars books and directed to base his novel on the background material presented within. Wow. So, also things like Twylic and Rodian and Quoran, like big species names, first appeared in these role-playing books, which is wild.

That's interesting. Okay. Right? Because the books I saw were such a modern sleek printing in the 90s that I was like, this doesn't look like the shit that dates back to, it was the pre-Wizzards the Coast D&D company. GSR? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I had no idea that it predated that's right. That's not right. That's not right. T-SR. T-SR. T-SR.

You said G-SR. T-SR. Yeah. The other thing really quick The other Was there something else? Shit, I've lost it Whatever it was

Doesn't matter Oh, it was printed in in 87 originally The version that you and I would have seen Was probably the version from 96 Which is the super sleek looking Millennium Falcon on the front cover I thought that was new No

That's the third edition Well, it's the second edition Then also revised and expanded The second edition is from 92 First edition is from 87 So yeah, there you go Austin can you read the next one sure

Ashley writes in and says dear a more civilized age Civilized was an S proving truly the most civilized way to spell the podcast I'm not sure I like Star Wars or at least other people Star Wars I was five years old when the Phantom Menace came out and I grew up with the prequels so my conception of what Star Wars is

has always been fancy dresses Italian countryside politics weird mysticism Natalie Portman and lots of CGI. I watched the original trilogy when I was older and never really connected with them.

They're not my Star Wars. I'm not big on the grungy, used aesthetic. Blasters seem bad compared to lightsabers. Nabu Starfighters are better than, greater than,

X wings, and the rebels dress sense is terrible. Revising the prequels, there's a lot that's bad about them, but a lot of interesting ideas at play. I'm not sure I see this in the original trilogy or the sequels. Lots of people on the internet

say that this is wrong, but they've also told me that the Clone Wars and also Rebels is where I'll find the synthesis of the two aesthetics and sensibilities. I own all but the most recent series of Clone Wars, but I've never made it more than a couple of episodes through. I'm now determined to watch along with your podcast

to see whether I actually like Star Wars or not questions. Despite all this talk of rhyming, the prequels do feel different than the original trilogy? Do you think they'd be better served, remembered, received if they kept more of the trappings of the original Star Wars? And looking ahead, do you think Clone Wars will help me connect with the original trilogy more? I look forward to watching along and listening to future episodes

of a more civilized age. Peace, Ashley. Can someone explain the rhyming thing to me really quick? Yeah, so like, the specific example that Lucas is pointing at is at the end of a phantom menace, I guess let's go the right way, the end of Star Wars, a new hope, Luke blows up the Death Star, right? The force guides him, he puts away his targeting computer, he pulls the trigger at the right moment, and a torpedo zips down into an exhaust vent, and it destroys the big, the kind of mother's side. ship equivalent of the empire, blowing up their super weapon and letting everyone win the day. In Phantom Menace, Anakin, in a fighter, flies his way through a trench into the heart of the Trade Federation mothership.

It was guided by the force to fire into a weak point. It blows up and he escapes. This is what Lucas means by it rhymes, is that, like, there are ways in which events throughout the two trilogies and how the three trilogies echo each other. There are configurations that reappear. It's sometimes as if the present is haunted by the past or the present, you know, foreshadows something happening later, right? Those are the, that's kind of what he's getting at. I would just say my only, like, note on how the prequels feel different to the original trilogy is maybe just that they, there's so much more in the prequels to distract.

you from like what is actually going on in the movie in terms of like the see the CGI the very strange acting choices like weird like side comments that like are delivered as if they're really important and then like mean nothing in 15 minutes um I think a lot of that I think oh there's just there's so much being thrown at you in the in the in the people movies that it's really hard to feel like when I think of the original trilogy there's a coherence to them that I feel like I'm naturally moving through like a three-part saga whereas in the original trilogy I feel like I'm being thrown from like one end of the fucking galaxy to the other to here to there and it's like tone shift tone shift aesthetic shift

aesthetic shift like it's just it's it's really a lot and i think that's maybe why like i wouldn't call myself a diehard star wars fan and like i think definitely doing this with y'all and starting to watch all of these as in a context has made me appreciate it so much more because they're like it is the little things that we can little things that actually are big things that we can grab onto like the design of the clones leading to like the design of the stormtroopers like that is really interesting to me how did we get that leap and like different things like that so i don't know it's hard to be able to tell someone like are you going to like a thing um but i i think at least clone wars seems to be the show seems to to have the sort of coherence of the

original trilogy in a way that the prequels don't just because they are visually and technically and so much about them is just so distracting that I think it's hard to really grab onto so yeah that makes all the sense I am definitely someone who is who it's hard for me to even answer this question because the original trilogy is my star wars in such a strong way that things like the grungy used aesthetic are so key to what I love about Star Wars that even when I'm watching Phantom Menace, I think the same logic is what leads to Italian countryside, big fancy dresses, and some of the design, in that the Gronji used aesthetic is not the heart of what a Star Wars aesthetic is. The heart of

Star Wars aesthetic is materialism. It's that the things exist in the world. They were not just created in a factory brand new. They have a history unless they were just created a factory brand new. In which case, Star Wars wants you to know, yeah, this is some rich person shit. That's why it's so sleek and clean. That's why the Nabuz shit has the kind of chrome effect on it, right? Because it's supposed to be representing luxury in that way. And so I think even the Italian villas of Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones come from that same heart. And that's why I can kind of draw the line between the – and it's also why Tatooine is fucked up in Phantom Menace, right?

Like the pod racers are that grungy aesthetic because that's the part of the world that we're in at that point. point, parts of Corrassant do have that grungy aesthetic because they're below the cloud line and are the part where regular people are living and trying to scrape by. I think we see a little bit more of that, too, in Revenge of the Sith, and we'll see it throughout on and off in Clone Wars, though the Clone War CG style does just make everything a little more plastic and, like, or plastic's wrong, vinyl. Everything kind of has a vinyl toy look to me, which I like a lot in Clone Wars, but does mean that you don't get that same grunginess by necessity. Yeah, I would, I'm kind of with you in so far as I can't even, I cannot identify

resonating with the prequel aesthetics more than, but actually it's not just that. Here's where, here's where I think I have an actual problem with it. Everything that you see in the prequel trilogy, I think is also meant to suggest that this is a pre-thall. society this is a pre-fallen era but the thing that the model makers and concept artists behind the original trilogy we're good at doing is they created things that evoked to history and you could imagine like yes this is this is a spaceship that has been worked on and patched up and changed over years that is old and this is how it would sort of weather in um you can't

I look at a lot of the stuff in the original trilogy, and it seems to have no past or future. But you mean the prequel trilogy? Yeah, in the prequel trilogy. It doesn't seem like all the stuff is very new, but also a lot of it feels like it will just cease to exist the minute it's out of sight. I get that, but like I always think

if there's so many key examples that I think work for me, so like this Jedi Starfighter, where you're just talking to someone about this today, becomes the A-wing, right? it becomes a little, and the two things. One is it becomes a little wider and less like an arrow and more just like an A. But two, there's a great moment in Attack of the Clones where he flies into Camino where Obi-Wan flies his Jedi Starfighter into Camino and like un-docs from this big ring that is

his hyperdrive. It's an externalized hyper drive. And by the time we get to A-wings in the original trilogy, that chitch is built in. And I love that detail so much. So it's not that I think you're right that like there's a lot of these. things do feel a little more free-floating than the original trilogy, but things like that do reoccur throughout the prequels. Yeah, but there are also examples of we're just going to take something that you soften the original trilogy and sort of tweak it for this prequel era that we're

right. That's where he retreats to. They rhyme. Right. Yeah. My, um, my only thought here, and I'm like kind of sympathetic to this question because I know that there's like a part of my brain that lights up when I see the like cool empire walls with like the oblong shape and there's the lights and everything and I'm like that looks cool as shit I'd love to look at that so like I don't I want to tell Ashley like yeah you know people don't like their prequels and you shouldn't like them as much anymore because like I understand that just like that like instinct of being like oh I thought this was a cool movie and I think it's a cool movie. And like, that's fine. Like, you don't have to, like, sit down and watch 200 episodes of Clone Wars to be like, well, these movies that I like more aren't as good as

these other movies that other people like more. Like, I think there's enough Star Wars media out there that, like, you're allowed to have your preferences, and it's chill. And people love Anakin, people love Padme, people love the, the cool, who are the, I can't believe I can't remember them. The pit droids. The pit droids. The pitroids. They love them. They're great. They're great. Yeah. And there's like, no, like, I, you know, we, we're going to spend a lot of time talking to a microphone about our opinions, but I don't think there's any, like, you don't have to do, like, soul searching to be like, oh, maybe I should like on solo more than I do. Like, it's fine. It's completely chill.

Yeah, like, that is, if there is one thing we could impart upon the fandoms of 2020, is like it's just chill it's cool as far as the other question about like connecting with the original trilogy how it'll change your relationship I don't I think clone wars will be really good at helping you forge a relationship with clone wars I say that as someone who likes the series a lot clone wars hasn't we just went through this I was like

Clone Wars is cool. I wonder if the original trilogy is cool. No. It just, it isn't. Clone Wars did not fix my relationship with the original trilogy. Or with the prequel. You keep saying the original trilogy, you're going to get people mad at you for thinking. I know, but it's...

I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. So Clone Wars did not change my relationship with episodes one through three. Well, I'd have no relationship with episode three. A thing people are mad about by the, way. People really want us to do Revenge of the Sith before. Before we start. No. Okay. Here's the thing. Let's have it out. Yeah.

I have not, I had 20 years to watch it. Haven't. So I could do it. You get like, I could, I could have the perspective that everybody else has on the, on this. But right now, I actually think I've got an unusual perspective because literally I have not seen episode three. And I find Clone Wars much more engaging than I found the original trilogy, so that's how I'm attacking this. If I watch episode three, okay, then there I can have, I can have that perspective that everyone else has. But I just, I'm not really that, I kind of don't want to be looking at the Clone Wars through the lens of, I know exactly where all of this leads. I kind of don't want that. I kind of want to be feeling my way through the dark the way the Jedi are, if that makes sense.

I got it. I thought you were going to say the way, like, young kids watching this show for the first time, having not seen the films, which many people that exist, that's a lot of people's experience of Star Wars at this point, felt. But I like your analogy of being a Jedi in the dark. And also, the rest of us have seen that movie. So the show is fine. The show has that perspective. Yeah. it's fun to have Rob be

I can't wait for the axe to drop for us to watch that movie my last thing here and I know I've talked too fucking much on this question but is the idea that the original film didn't have big ideas in that way I think is really hard to grapple with

because the context is so different that like the grungy used aesthetic was a huge idea in science fiction at the time because the sci-fi films that existed alongside Star Wars had a very particular look. 70s sci-fi was crisp and clean and plastic and without history.

It all looked like Logan's run. It all looked like there was a very specific vision of what science fiction looked like. The Star Wars, the original trilogy suffers for having become such a fixture of pop culture that it often, it's hard to even see. Like, does this mean anything? It's just spectacle, right? But, you know, Lucas was trying to say something about technological military supremacy and its hubris and its deficiencies. And that just kind of gets lost and it turns into a lot of, I don't think the Ewok should have been able to beat the stormtroopers. That's bullshit.

But there was an important point made there. Unfortunately, it just went through the Jim Henson Creature Workshop a little too much maybe and came out just a little bit tweey in a way that I think. think muted some of the messages that Lucas was trying to work with, which appears to have been a lifelong problem for him. Let's see. Natalie, you were, before the podcast, you were looking at lightsaber hiltz. So can you read this next one? Yeah, sure. This comes from Riley. Hello, a more civilized age. Oh, yes. Okay, that's our name. I got tripped up on the acronym. I cannot wait to get deeper in this podcast. My question is simple.

Can each of y'all please describe what your lightsabers would be? Sound, color. What would the Hilt look like? Thank you all so much, Riley. You can have different sounds. Yeah, I thought, like, light makes the sound. I thought there were two sounds. I thought there was Kylo Ren's janky-ass, like, reconstructed lightsaber sound.

Oh, sure. And then there were real lightsableness. is made by real Jedi. Damn, get his ass. But does not Kylo's prove that you could theoretically have different sounds based on construction techniques? Yeah, I mean, you could be... Can my be a ringback tone?

Well, there's something that are like, hmm, and then there's something that are like, boing. Is that the difference in the center? Who has a boing? Lightsaber, I must know. Turn that lightsaber on and go boing. Put that shit on vibrate, please. When I turn on my lightsaber,

I have to listen to what Kylo Ren's lightsaber sounds like now after Rob's slander, so I don't know what mine would look like. Really? I don't know. I remember being, I remember being asked a similar question in regards to a keyblade, and I struggle with these questions a lot, but I feel like if I were. to build a light if I were to have a lightsaber it would have like a cool um the hilt would be like see through

so you could see the inside of it which oh that's fun I looked at every lightsaber hilt that I've seen and that's not doesn't seem possible based on how lightsaber's work but they would make it work for me and I bet that you could do that no I could do it

you can't I mean you I feel like you could do it maybe the see through material is not strong enough. Transparent steel hill. Yeah, some transparent steel. You could do it. They have them. So you just have to get different crystals. Yeah. I know what crystals are. I think it's doable. I think it's totally, yeah.

It would be like a crystal hilt. Yeah. The whole. Oh, you're saying you to hold. That's too dangerous. That's a good way of blowing your hand off. Because if it redirects the wrong way, that's the, well, you have like the lightsaber crystal inside and then the hilt itself is made out of like a different gem. Now we're making like a Faberjee lightsaber basically.

Like Zarina Natalie is going to bust out her royal lightsaber made from it's just a

carved piece of Khyber Crystal the world was destroyed after they'd harvested the pieces for this. Here's the thing.

I think that I'm of two minds. One is that like when I buy something I almost always

buy it for the function and not the aesthetic. If you've seen my apartment, it's like a fucking hodgepodge in here. Nothing matches. I have like random-ass furniture that I got because it was affordable or somebody gave it to me.

So I feel like my lightsaber would either be the fabricet egg of lightsabers or it would just be like a stock, reliable lightsaber that I knew had like a 10 year warranty on it that like I'm not gonna it's not gonna fuck around with me and the color would be like a seafoam I don't know if anyone's familiar with like a seafoomy color

like a in between green we all had grandmas wow I was referencing fucking waypoint yeah this this should be a seafone respect to zone please excuse me my child childhood bedroom my childhood bedroom would disagree um yeah it would be like a seafelmy uh beamy and it would just make you know standard lightsaber noises definitely no boings in my in my lightsaber though i'm looking at lightsaber parts i'm looking at various lightsaber careers ew ew i'm done with star wars sorry to cancel the podcast. Oh, dear, he found the carbon fiber

lightsaber accessory. No, that's a link what I found. It fucking sucks. Get out of here. Oh, my God. What? Who thought this was cool? This is, do you want to describe

what someone want to describe what I've linked? Nope, I fucking hate that. That's a nightstick. It's a lightsaber nightstick. It's a lightsaber nightstick. Get the fuck out of here. I mean, or, or is this

what all lightsabers actually are because they're the cops. Is this just, did I just did I just approach the truth with such velocity that I was scared and immediately fight or flight retreated. Anyway, I think I'm, I think it's like corny as shit, but I just love the curved hilt so much that Duku has. And I'm, I like the, I think a curved hilt feels fun.

And I think I'd go, I like the ones that are more silver than anything else. I think maybe that's the vibe is like silver. with some like black etching but primarily that kind of bright silver and then a gold blade oh okay yeah hell yeah yeah I think it's the Azure Reaper is bad I don't like this one oh it's a little it's a little it's a little it's all dentists tool oh it is okay how about this one we're now looking at ultra sabers We're not We're not sponsored by That's

We both know what that is We all know what that is We all know what we're looking at here That's just what's that called the Monarch? Yeah okay Yeah Actually it's kind of sick though Like I'm looking at it more

It's girthy It is Looking like a table leg That is That is part of the problem is like It's like If there are a piece of discarded furniture that you're a kid, and you're like, this is my lightsaber help.

Here it is. And I don't think I want to be that. But I like, I like it. You know, it's growing on me. It's sturdy. Uh-huh. It's got good grip. It does.

It has a nice texture detail to it. This feels very prequel. Like, to go, could be an issue. Yeah, I think you're right. Like, that has to be really custom-fitted to your hand. Yeah, I have small hands. Yeah, I'm just looking at that, like, I feel like I would never know where to put my pinky in that, in that situation. Oh, you're not wrong.

Yeah. It's like a golf club. Do I want to try to, yeah, yeah, and the thing is, I hate golf clubs. Yeah. So. How do you, how do you feel about the lightsabers that have, like, wood grain or, or, like, tans and beigees? Because that's, that's a type of lightsaber you see from time to time. They kind of more naturalist.

I don't think I've. In 1970s family sedan type sheds. I mean, I love that aesthetic in general. I don't want a griswolded lightsaber. I want to go to the fucking place. I want to go to the theme park and get one. Oh, yeah. I want to go through the test or whatever.

My light saber crystal would be a very light lilac. Ooh. Yeah, Mace Windy's is like a very neon purple, but mine would be much more understated, like a lighter, closer to white color. I don't think of a hilt's enough. Yeah. I should think of the hiltz. I think Heltz are often underwhelming is the thing.

If you actually stop and look at a lightsaber hilt, you're often like, that looks less cool than a lightsaber feels like it should be. The curved hilt, that's good. But this is wood. That's wood. This is what I'm saying. Do you see the kind of brown wooden inlay? I don't listen that so much.

Because it's at least standing out from the crowd. Like, I feel like I've looked at a bunch of hiltz, and it's basically the same shit every time. I'm not really seeing a lot of... variety in the Hilt market. I think there's an opening for some Etsy Hiltz. I want to list of all of the real.

A French grip lightsaber. Yeah. Thank you. Allie, I thank you. It's a chart here of a variety of characters light saber hiltz. We've got Anakin Skywalker,

we've got Darth Vader, we've got Mace Windu, we've got Yoda. Oh, Darth Sidious has a really... I know, Darth Sidious's is my favorite so far. We all got there, didn't you? I mean, your eye is just sort of drawn to it. Oh, it's funny because Darth Malls is obviously the biggest one here, and there are other ones.

It's not... It's just so distinct. Cidius is just so distinct. It doesn't have to... It speaks for itself. It doesn't have to say a lot. to be seen. You know what I mean?

It's very regal. I do like Mace Windo's, though. It is very regal. But again, it has to think... Because that guy never does this dirty work. Yeah, true. It doesn't get his own hands dirty. It's interesting because, like, the...

I love what it... I love seeing it right next to Kylo Ren's, because Kylo Ren would never think that that's what D'Art Sidious's looks like. Kylo Ren would be like, I bet, I bet that the Emperor's lightsaber was sick and it had, like, ragged edges and, like, spikes. And the Reel Ren in that Saturday Night Live undercover boss thing,

I think is actually very close to being a good read on who Kylo Ren is. Oh, totally. Yeah. And I do think it is, yeah, it's... That's canon to me. Yeah, basically. Where somebody's like, Kyle Lorenz's life, Sarah, you know, looks like a little kid made it. He was like, no, it's awesome.

That's why I like him. Because he's, you know, he's just, he just wants to fulfill his dreams. Yeah. I like Mace Windows, though, a lot. It's so good. I think looks cool as hell. It does look cool as hell. I also like the Vader.

I'm not going to lie. Mace Window has a second one that has like this like, I'm posting another chart here. Oh, thank you. Um, when it says Mace Window, uh, second version where it's like pointed at the end. That's not, that's just, isn't that just half of the, that just looks too much like the Darth Mall, like half of Darth Malls to me? Oh, yeah. I don't like big red button lights. No.

It should not look like a TV remote. Correct. Correct. Agreed. Yeah. Too many of them look like TV remotes. Like Starath Malls looks way too much like a TV remote or a child's toy. This is from Asoka.

Osoca is kind of sick. Oh, Osama is really good. Oh, and then we have not met, we've not met Assoco, nor have we met Asage Venturous yet, but Asage's are sick. Nice. You know, that's kind of sick. I'm here for it. Okay. I think if I had to make a choice right now

from this chart that I've posted, Adi Ghalia's 80 Ghalia's lightsaber. Apparently it's not seen in the Phantom Menace. But it's like, you know, it looks practical. It looks like it has a good, like, weight to it.

Yeah. But it has like a sleekness and a nice design that I think is good. Yeah. The one I just posted is another image of Palpatines. Oh. That looks pretty sick. And it's more purple and silver and gold.

I like that one a lot of a lot. See, imagine that silver part right there was just like a see-through glass. Yeah. That's what I'm into. Yeah, that's sick. You're not wrong. Like the old Nintendo 64s with the see-through, you know, where you can, I love to be able to see the inner workings of the. technology. I'm a sucker for that, for sure.

How is there not a see-through lightsaber already? Probably because glass isn't suitable for... No, but the world has a... The world of Star Wars has a bunch of shit that you can see through, but it's still strong. Yeah. Strong enough to beat a lightsaber? Plast steel is very strong. Maybe it's not a strong. Maybe it's not strong enough.

Maybe you're right. I mean, but the thing is, on the grip, it probably doesn't have to be super strong because it's not actually taking the shock of the blades connecting. So I don't know. You know the right answer? The canon answer here is my lightsaber would look like whatever the lightsaber of the last Jedi I killed looked like. Damn.

That's that shit. That's the general grievous shit. Yeah, I was thinking on that last comment that obviously I should have a Besscar, Leadsaber Hill. Yeah, let's fucking go. That would be sick. That would be sick Just can do

A strong person I'm a strong person then Yeah I think I just keep I keep coming back to the Vader If we get through this We have to get lightsabers Yeah we do

We have to make a pilgrimage Yeah To the unnamed To the unnamed place Yeah At least we can get At least we can get drunk there I can't wait

I cannot fucking wait. The strings are good. Also, Evie, it's pretty cool. I did go. And it's, it's like,

see, all you, I don't been, hmm, it's fine. It's fine. Austin, I invited you.

One day. I said that I would go with you. When? When? When? When it opened and when I lived in California. I didn't live in California. You can't invite someone.

I don't, but I can't, I go to California when it's my job to go to California. I think an extra few days at the end. Do a Waypoint blog on Star Wars Dizzyland. I thought about it. I thought about, because they let bloggers come when that shit opened and they paid for it. And I was like, I'm a blogger.

Should we do it? And then I didn't do it. So. Oh, so is anyone not given their color? I think you. I want to retract mine and change mine to silver because that's, there's like a very, there's like a, Cotor 2 has a color that's like a silver. Overblade, and it's...

I was going to do, like, overcast winter day. Oh, you can have it with that. I like that for you. Yeah. That's great. I love that yours is not a color, Rob. I thought there's a color. It makes a color. You know what it looks like? Yeah.

You know what that sky looks like. That's the blade. I know. It's just very rob of you to describe it this way. It's true. It's true. Well, I love our life favorite. So I think we're all Jedi now. Yeah. We graduated. We're ready to take on training.

damn it what if we're all Jedi now that's all I'm upset we can start a new one why what happens to them hmm

they just fine don't worry about it all right so I think with those questions wrapped up we didn't get to all of them some of these

I think might pop up later because there are some there are some really good ones especially the guy more relevant as the clone wars goes on

that I would really love to dig into but with these questions wrapped I think we're ready to dig into the Clone Wars, which we'll be starting, gosh, from when this airs, I think you will get next week from when you hear this. I believe that's true.

Yeah. Next week, you will hear us tackle the Clone Wars, starting with the Clone Wars movie, which is a short film that precedes the first season of the show. And from there, I think we're going to be going to an alternating week schedule just to make sure that the prep. work doesn't get short-changed in the pressure of keeping up a weekly schedule. Until then, please rate and review us on the podcast platform of your choice.

As for those of us on the show, you can find me on Twitter at Rob Zackney. Allie, where can people find you? You can find me over at Allie underscore West on Twitter. Austin. Austin underscore Walker. Natalie. Natalie, I almost said underscore. It's not true.

Yeah, two in a row. At Natalie Watson on Twitter. Perfect. And we hope you'll join us all again for the Clone Wars movie next week. But until then, I still don't have a great outro. I'm working. Like, what's a great pithy line? Right?

Like, ultimately, like, there's nothing, every time I think about this, I'm like, people shouldn't, the force, I want the force to stay away from me. Like, I know Jedi things to be like me to force be with you, I wish the force would fuck off. I thought that was what you said last year. I thought you said something like made the force fuck off. I wish it would leave. May the force fuck off.

I'll take Rob's force. I'll call me. And so... ...which... ...theid... ...and... ...weean... ...withal...

...you...