a16z Podcast - AI, Supply Chains, and the Future of Economic Power

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

Erik Torenberg sits down with Jacob Helberg to discuss AI, manufacturing, supply chains, and the new geopolitics of technology. Drawing on themes from Helberg’s book The Wires of War, they explore why hardware, industrial capacity, and secure supply chains have become central to both economic strength and national security. They also unpack what it means to “win the AI race” — from model leadership and global adoption to energy, compute, tariffs, and reindustrialization in the U.S.   Resources: Find Jacob Helberg on X: https://x.com/jacobhelberg Stay Updated:Find a16z on YouTube: YouTubeFind a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Show on SpotifyListen to the a16z Show on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Our models need to be superior than all the other models on Earth. We need to have the world's best AI innovation on a qualitative basis, so we need to have the most market share. If we have exquisite models that no one uses, we're kind of irrelevant. Americans are positive some thinkers. We don't see the world as a finite pie that needs to be subdivided into smaller slices. We see a world where the pie expands, which is the lifeblood of starting a business. What does it take to win the AI race? At the A16Z American Dynamism Summit, I sat down with Jacob Helberg, under Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, to discuss AI, manufacturing, supply chains,

and the new geopolitics of technology. Drawing on themes from his book, The Wires of War, we discussed why hardware, industrial capacity, and secure supply chains are now essential to both economic strength and national security. Jacob also unpacks what it means to lead in AI, from my and security. model innovation and global adoption to energy, compute, tariffs, and the reindustrialization of the U.S. Jacob, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

We're going to get into a lot of exciting conversation about future of the economy, AI, manufacturing, supply chain. But I want to start at some of your intellectual origin. You wrote a book, The Wires of War, came out in 2021. When you briefly explain the high-level thesis of the book? And then I'm curious if you wrote an addendum today about how the, the last five years have played out what you might write. Yeah, so first of all, it's great to be here and it's great to see you. I'm excited for this conversation and then have the opportunity to lay out some of the things

that the administration has been working on. In 2021, I came out with a book called The Wires of War that was basically proposing a thesis that at the time was somewhat controversial but has become common wisdom since then, which is that the technology world is really in the grips of a two-front geopolitical technology war. There's the software end and the hardware end on the software side. At the time, we were seeing the emergence of things like foreign information operations. And on the hardware side, which the whole premise of the book was really to actually say that the hardware end was the decisive battlefield. There was obviously the battle against Huawei and really the infrastructure of the internet.

And the basic reason why the book argued that the hardware end was the most important one is because if a country controls the internet at the hardware. level, they can compromise and control everything that runs on top of it. In our system, we have private companies that live very independently from the U.S. government and that operate in a private capacity, as we know. And that system is not the case in other places, including in China, where the companies are obviously much more subordinate in it to the centralized government. And so ultimately, when you have a foreign government that can whip up its companies as, of political power that's very concerning for what it means for national sovereignty. And it's funny because you started your career on the software side at Google, right?

That's right. And then you realize that hardware, now you're spending more time there in your new role. Why don't you flesh out exactly what were the sort of key risks you identified on the hardware side? And how have they played out? How have they changed or say the same? Yeah. So, I mean, really what we're talking about is if you have a foreign government that controls, that can instrumentalize its tech companies that operate the hardware of the internet, it fundamentally challenges our traditional conception of sovereignty because it raises a question of what does it mean to be sovereign when you have a foreign power that knows all the deepest, darkest secrets

of all the judges, journalists, and jurists in your country, and politicians in your country. And the definition of sovereignty starts to look very, very different in a world like that. And so the first Trump administration carried out and prosecuted a very comprehensive campaign. that basically argue that Huawei and ZT are national security threats. That campaign has been sustained across administrations since then, including this one. And so today, obviously, to your earlier question,

we live in a world that's the same in some ways, but that has evolved and mutated in really interesting ways with the AI revolution. It actually was arguably prompted by the release of ChadGBT, a year after my book. And the AI revolution has really heightened the stakes of this whole technology race in pretty fundamental ways because it's really put on steroids, the capabilities that governments can have to actually carry out these types of operations. Yeah.

And so let's now get to your work in the administration. Why don't you talk about your main priorities, goals, and achievements today? Yeah. So are cognizant and recognizing the fact that the AI revolution is going to totally transform economic power and military power, and I'd love to talk a little bit more about that, The administration has laid out a policy to win the AI race. The president proclaimed a very, very historic speech last July at a summit that David Sachs and I co-hosted called Winning the AI Race, where he rolled out the AI Action Plan.

And in that speech, he basically laid out that he acknowledged that America was in a race, and he proclaimed that America was going to win that race. And it was very aspirational. And David likes to reference that it was almost reminiscent of JFK's speech to the moon, which I actually happened to totally agree with. him on that. I think it very much echoed that. And so then that raises a question for agencies like ours, how do we actually help him achieve that goal? From our vantage point, we see three conditions that needs to be met to win the AI race. We need to have the world's best technology and AI innovation

on a qualitative basis. So our models need to be superior than all the other models on Earth. That's number one. Number two, we need to have the most market share because if we have exquisite models that no one uses, as we know from the world of consumer technology, we're kind of irrelevant. So we need to have the most users. We want to have the app store that has the most apps. We want to be the platform for the rest of the world. And number three, we need secure supply chains

because if we have technologies that are firing on all cylinders, technology companies that are firing on all cylinders, but if one tiny cog gets loose and trips up the whole machine, we are in a very brittle, precarious position. And so we need to make sure that our companies who rely on many different types of inputs and components that come from very different corners of the globe actually have supply chains that are reliable, that are cost effective, and that are secure. And so we're working very hard to do that. We launched an initiative called PACSilica that aims at securing the supply chain and partnering with some of the world's most technologically advanced economies to develop partnerships, to secure off-take agreements, joint ventures, and the like. And so we're very excited about having this three-front strategy to win the AI race. Yeah.

Let's go through the three fronts that you just mentioned. And you've mentioned a little bit about what we've achieved. Let's talk more about that. But then also what needs to happen in order for those conditions to be met. Yeah. So having the best AI innovation on a qualitative basis is really an effort. First of all, let me just say that we already have the best AI innovation on a qualitative basis. So the question is, how do we maintain our lead?

One of the big thorny challenges that's new and new. very apparent to everyone is the challenge of model distillation, which is fundamentally a undermines intellectual property and fundamentally undermines the unit economics of the industry, because when companies invest hundreds of billions of dollars in CAPEX investments, and then to develop fancy model ways, but then other companies can just take them, that's a major problem. So that is an issue that we obviously are tracking, and our administration as a whole is engaged in conversations with companies to try to find solutions to this. But the government, the companies in the AI labs are the ones in the driver's seat when it comes to developing to ensuring our lead on a qualitative basis,

as they should be. With respect to market share, we believe in the power of that our products are superior and therefore more people like them. With that being said, we also recognize that they're competing on a playing field that's not always fair and leveled. And so we are actively engaged with governments to basically ensure that we have a preferential preference for technologies that are secure. And this is really an extension of the work that we've done on Huawei. A lot of our focus has been on hardware infrastructure, but I think there's a lot of intellectual work being done for what does that mean at the AI age, what does that mean

in a world where you have open model weights that are fundamentally harder to contain. So market share is very much a part of the thinking. That is the premise for the AI Export Program. We want to grow our market share worldwide. David Sachs and Secretary Lutnik have done a lot of really great work, and Kratios has done a lot of really great work to help launch the AI Export Program, and the State Department is very involved in helping evangelize that and actually onboard more users. We launched the Chip Concierge service that provides white-glove support for the AI expert program for a subset of countries, which are the Paxilica countries. So we're certainly trying to contribute in ways that are constructive and in ways that help be an accelerant to get more users.

And then for securing our supply chains, that's where I think the government probably can play the most important role because we can catalyze partnerships. We can catalyze joint ventures. Our supply chains are very frail. What we have realized since COVID is obviously China has very vertically integrated supply chains because they have a lot of state-owned companies.

Our supply chains are not vertically. integrated at all. They are totally geographically dispersed. Thousands of different vendors, many of them are mom and pop shops and different parts of the globe, full of information asymmetries. A company in Santa Clara or Santa Jose has no idea where some of these parts come from who makes them because there's so many different layers of vendor partnerships. And so as a result, you end up with a system where companies have very low visibility. There's a lot of inefficiencies by virtue of the sheer number of people involved, and the lack of coordination.

And so one of the things that we're looking at doing is actually using tools that the government can be a catalyst for to actually bring a little bit more efficiency and coordination to how the supply chains for our large, arguably systemically important companies work. And those souls include off-take agreements. they include joint ventures, they include co-investment opportunities, and the last one is market incentives. So this sort of gets at, you know, one of the concepts around, you know, creating some sort of preferential trade zone.

We have, you know, obviously our administration has pursued an incentives-based agenda very heavily with respect to the imposition of tariffs to encourage investment in the U.S. but the government has tools to actually create to incentivize behavior and create the environment that will actually lead the private sector to deploy capital in ways that are strategic. Yeah. And by the way, on that note, what is the right way of making sense of tariffs,

the effect of rights since Liberation Day? Is it that there were largely a negotiating tool that was effective in achieving its goals? Is it that it's also an economic policy? that had certain goals? What's a way of making sense of it while also realizing that it's still early? Yeah, so the fundamental thesis and view is since over the last generation or so, we've lost 66,000 manufacturing plans. We've lost over 2 million manufacturing jobs. Our industrial base has been completely hollowed out. And not by an act of divine, divine.

destined, you know, manifest destiny, but really by choices, policy choices that have been instituted over the last 25 years that have been terrible. And so the tariffs are actually a recalibration of, based on the recognition that we need to have an economic policy that is tethered to our national security imperatives. They're in pure and perfect markets. When you have a trade deficit, typically you have changes in the of a currency that allows a trade deficit to go back to an equilibrium level of zero. But it is not a natural phenomenon to have consistent trade deficits for a 25-year period on a quarter-by-quarter basis. That is the result of markets that are not functioning

and, you know, that are not functioning correctly. And so the tariffs actually helped correct those deficit, those long-term secular trade deficits. And if I could just add, if I could digress and just really hammer this one point. When the president took office, we had a trade deficit with our top 12 trading partners of over trillion dollars a year. I mean, it was astronomical. And so we took, you know, the same view that that level of trade deficit on a year-by-year basis is completely unsustainable. After Liberation Day, and when the president instituted tariffs, we've actually seen a complete change in the trajectory in a lot of these numbers.

Our trade deficit was China, which has long been our largest trade deficit country, has been plummeting in a way that's really historic. Our trade deficit overall has been receding. And we have actually seen record investment in Cappex investment in the U.S., which doesn't even show up in trade data yet because the Cappex investment,

hasn't, you know, these things are early indicators. It hasn't yet converted into production capacity because a lot of these plants are being built as we speak. But it's, as someone in the tech industry, you understand the difference between a lagging indicator and an early indicator. And so it's really encouraging and actually quite exciting to see a lot of these investments being made.

And so, you know, the basic thesis is we used to have a policy worldview that said, you know, potato chips, computer chips, doesn't matter. And you could have a national security untethered from economic policy. We believe that it's important to bring our economic policy in line with our national security. And that includes having an economic policy that does not run trillion dollar trade deficits on a year-by-year basis. And say more about with the positive benefit of having a much-reduced trade deficit. Is it that on the employment side that will now, you know, employ more Americans because we're building more here,

is it that will also just take care of some of the industries that are most important for national security? Is it more benefits? Well, first of all, the Treasury will have more resources to actually fund a lot of the things Americans care about. So, you know, it has really, it has a very big impact on the resources that are at disposal to actually fund, you know, the government,

as well as, you know, important programs. Second of all, it has a very big impact. on, you know, fundamentally, one of the things that we realized during COVID is it is incredibly, you can't defend a country with Facebook ads. You need to be able to make things. And the national security strategy that we released actually has a line that's very apt, which says the future will belong to builders. And that's our belief. What the tariffs do is they change the economics of building. They provide American builders with a re-leveled playing field that makes it economical for them to compete if they build in America. And so, and fundamentally, that's why we've

seen historic CAPEX investments because of the tariffs. The ingredients of, you know, the Trump Industrial Revolution are tariffs, deregulation, energy abundance, and tax incentives, which include, you know, CAPEX investing through the one big, beautiful bill. Those building blocks totally change the game when it comes to the unit economics of building things in America. And so it's actually in total contrast to what Europe is doing, sadly, where you have super high energy prices, insane regulation, insanely high taxes, and you see the results, which is a continued sustainment of de-investualization of Europe, which is very regrettable. And so we think these things are choices, and you can actually reverse them. And we're seeing that play out in real-time.

Just on the note of Europe, there's some people that point to, hey, there's maybe some countries that are increasing their defense spending. Do you think that's for real? Do you think that's good for us? How should we make sense of what's happening in Europe right now? So I think the political will is real. But, and, you know, one of the things that I'm sure you and your viewers will appreciate, you know, for folks in the technology industry is the political will can be there. But that, you know, that, you know, translating that political will into capabilities will require companies. It will require builders building technologies and weapon systems that are at least comparable or superior to what is already on the market. And in order to do that, you need founders who are exceptional because building companies are very hard, especially hardware companies that are very advanced and capital intensive. And you need an environment that actually makes it somewhat condescending. to actually build a company.

And it's really hard for Europe to put those pieces together because they, you know, the culture in Europe has been really not favorable to encouraging risk-taking, which is a necessary, which is the lifeblood of starting a business. You need to have a risk-taking culture. And then they have the unit economics problem where it's just really expensive to build stuff in Europe because your energy bills are really high. You have to spend a ton of money on legal fees before you even start. And so it's, you know, those parts are very challenging.

So it's not that starting things in Europe will be impossible, but they have major headwinds. They will start on day one with significant disadvantages compared to American companies where, fortunately, because we have a federal system, the states are the laboratories of democracy. And so if some companies, many of whom we know, you know, have a hard time building things in one state,

they can also move to a different state that has a favorable tax environment and regulatory environment. And so we actually have a system that, you know, it still makes it quite easy to build things. And so our policy is we want a strong Europe. And so we have really invested a lot of efforts

into having a truthful, candid conversations with our friends in Europe to actually share our concerns. And, you know, the media, some elements of the legacy media has inaccurately portrayed our stance as being antagonistic towards Europe, but it'll be no surprise that's a total misrepresentation. The truth is that when you actually care about someone, you can actually be candid with them. Clear is kind. And so it is because you care, if you have a relative who's unwell is the empathetic view to pretend like they're perfectly fine.

and tell them everything is going to be okay when you know that they have cancer, or is the empathetic view to actually let them know that there's a problem that they need to take care of? I think the latter is clearly the more empathetic position. We care about Europe. We want them to be strong, and so we are, you know,

trying to draw their attention towards policy issues that we think are serious headwinds for them. Yeah. Similarly, you know, some people critique and say, hey, it's better to have these countries dependent on us. Whereas, similarly to your example,

if you really care about someone, you want them to be sovereign, you want them to be independent, you want them to be strong, and that doesn't mean that we're, you know,

drifting apart and no longer going to support each other. It means that perhaps we could support each other better because you bring more to the table. Exactly. And go for it. I was just going to say,

and Americans are positive some thinkers. I mean, unlike, and this is fundamentally, you know, something that doesn't always, that people

underappreciate overseas is it's not like there is a centrally planned maniacal plan in Washington to get the rest of the world dependent on America because we are a positive some thinkers. And what that means in practice is Americans also do a lot of joint ventures

because we don't see the world as a finite pie that needs to be subdivided into smaller slices. We see a world where the pie expands and where there is an opportunity and a lot of American companies are very comfortable doing co-investments and joint ventures. And so it's just a very different lens. Yeah.

How should we make sense of the sovereign AI investments that are happening in the Middle East? Is that also strategic for us? Or say more about that? Yeah. So fundamentally, the Middle East has a lot of capital. They're going to invest it in artificial intelligence, one way or the other.

They are, some of the investors in the region are incredibly sophisticated. And a lot of them have rightly recognized that they want an economy that is diversified away from hydrocarbons. And AI is fundamentally a path that allows them to shift from a paradigm where they export hydrocarbons to a world where they export intelligence and tokens. they are as you know a fundamental building block of having

of large computing capacity is cheap access to cheap energy an integral function of the cost of compute is the cost of energy and in the million you see you have a lot of very cheap energy and so that is a comparative advantage

that they have identified accurately and that they want to capitalize on. So our view is, let's work together to have a mutually beneficial approach. We want to enable, because we have a positive sum view of the world, we believe in a world where we help them achieve their aspirations that they've set for themselves in a way that actually grows the pie and offers our company's opportunities to collaborate on something greater. And so we see our approach to the Middle East as an opportunity to allow our country to allow our companies to expand their lead because it's actually a market that gives our companies access

to a lot of cheap energy, the UAE, the Qataris, the Saudis, you know, the Israelis, all of them are interested in AI. If they want to make available large compute capacity to our companies, we think that's a great thing. And so we've been having a lot of conversations with them. The UAE and Saudi Arabia, we signed an AI, an AI deal. We signed two large AI deals. We signed two large AI deals with them. I was in Israel where we signed a bilateral joint statement on technology cooperation, which we're very excited about, which included artificial intelligence. And so, you know, we're very supportive. It's a fascinating region because I think for a long time, the stereotype was that the Middle East was an unstable place and East Asia was an engine of growth.

And part of what we've seen over the last 20 or so years is really that region emerge economically in a way that has caught a lot of people by surprise. So it's exciting to see a lot of the developments. Yeah, absolutely. And to that end, you've talked about how if the 20th century ran on oil and steel, the 21st will run on compute and minerals that feed it. Why is the right analogy, you know, compute and oil? Well, because oil and energy were fundamentally functions of economic growth and economic activity.

And when you had the Industrial Revolution, the integration of industrialized energy, industrial-scale energy production really led to a step change and a secular acceleration of economic growth. And part of what we are likely to see with artificial intelligence, and I actually, co-authored a paper at the White House Economic Council on the great divergence is the superintelligence revolution, I think is likely to lead to a secular acceleration and economic growth, similar to what we saw during the first Industrial Revolution, where you start to see the growth band of GDP growth start to shift to the right, basically. So, you know, when we had societies that were primarily agrarian growth was between zero and one percent year by year. If you're between zero and one percent, that means you don't have compounding growth because,

you know, you're under one percent. After the Industrial Revolution, we had between, you know, two and three percent, one and three percent roughly on a year by year basis, all of a sudden that unlocked compounding growth, that's when you started to see economic growth grow up exponentially like a hockey stick. And part of what we're likely to see with, um, The AI revolution is actually a shift upwards in an economic growth, where you start to see growth pick up between three and five or maybe even six percent on a year-by-year basis, which is really a dramatic acceleration of growth. Evidence that what evidence do we have to point to that,

while we've already had growth break 5 percent in the U.S. And that's huge because the U.S. is a world's arches economy. So when we're growing at 5 percent, that's like adding. a GDP the size of Saudi Arabia to our economy. I mean, it's massive. And it's a massive movement and creation of wealth. And so that's number one. Number two, the other big indicator is we're seeing productivity break 5% growth in productivity. So if you believe that productivity is obviously going to accelerate growth expansion, you're seeing that data. The other early indicators that we're seeing is we're seeing record demand, demand pick up for everything from

energy, minerals, components, you know, compute capacity. All of that demand is massively going up. And so we're actually seeing an economy that's almost supply constrained, where demand is just so intense. It's outpacing, you know, the rate of supply. And so to me, that shows an economy that's actually really running on all cylinders. And so it's quite exciting to see, you know, this economic acceleration. And it's funny because it really came at the perfect time where for a while, the total factor productivity statistics, you know, weren't super strong, you know, reducing, whereas the debt was also, you know, increasing, you know, local to San Francisco,

you know, people were moving during COVID and people were saying, oh, you know, San Francisco, you know, what's happening there? And then, of course, the AI boom happened. S.F. Who said that? Yeah, exactly. Some good friends. But also, you know, just for the U.S. in general, it seems like this is our godsend in terms of, you know, because people were saying, you know, during Doge, et cetera, like, you know,

we've really got to take care of the debt. And there just seems to be, you know, you can limit it to some extent, but there just seems to be this spending monsters. And maybe it's just easier to grow our way out of it. Yeah, I mean, it is true how, and it's such a quintessentially American story, where you know, we somehow figure things out at the 11th hour. COVID hits. I mean, it is true that San Francisco did not seem like it was a great spot for Hawaii.

I mean, we spent some time in Miami for a little bit. Yeah, totally. Good times. And so, you know, a lot of people were very, very concerned about the explosion in the deficit and all the rest. And, you know, obviously, Ray Dalio spent a lot of time talking about how we're in a debt spiral, et cetera. And, you know, what we've seen is the AI revolution catches the economy by storm.

San Francisco makes this, you know, shocking comeback. And, you know, hopefully it lasts. And, you know, productivity picks up, growth starts to accelerate. And it's actually really amazing because growth solves a lot of problems. I mean, it solves a debt problem and solves, you know, a lot of problems. And this is actually something that the president really understands so well. I mean, one of the things that is, one of the things that I really took away from my time in tech is, you know, when you really great founders understand the importance and the power of prioritizing and isolating signal from noise, they understand how, you know, they're able to identify what are the one or two things that if I don't get right are decisive. And, you know, we are actually really lucky in a way to have a president that really has that kind of thinking and, you know, a lot of those attributes because he really understands that, you know, if the economy grows really fast, a lot of the other problems go away.

Yeah. Just completely on their own. And so it's actually really amazing how, you know, this has actually, you know, come together so quickly in a year. Totally. I mean, it's been one year. It's really amazing. Yeah. I want to, you know, geared towards closing by going back to this idea of economic security that you talk about, you know, I believe China imposes like 90% of mineral stuff we were

discussing. And I'm curious, is there a way of actually diversifying or what do you identify as the critical bottlenecks or risks that we have to solve? So I'm actually incredibly bullish that we're going to solve this. So the big picture is obviously, as we mentioned earlier, is we need to see. secure our supply chains, which requires putting a lot of pieces of the puzzle together. It's very complicated. With that being said, we have the world's most talented founders.

Unlike some places, we actually empower those founders. You know, we don't send them hiding to Japan. And we're very creative. And, you know, look, we are a country from our earliest days. We're a country of underdogs. You know, we were our country was started as an army of rack tag. you know, rebels that overtook a, that rebels against an empire at the time. And that's just part of our DNA. So we tend to perform really well at the 11th hour. And I'm totally confident

that we're actually going to solve this. The question is time is how fast can we actually turn, you know, reverse 25 years, essentially. And, you know, we'll see. But I will say President Trump's only been in power a year and just look at how different the world is. I mean, I think it's fair to say that it looks really different. And the running expression, I mean, it's really one of the fascinating things

about doing the role that I'm currently doing in the State Department is I really get a front row seat into having conversations with foreign leaders and getting an up-close feel for our country, our administration, and the amount of admiration that they have for President Trump really can't, you know, be overstated.

They know that he's a sample of one, and they really kind of have the same kind of admiration that you would actually, that people would typically be accustomed to feeling in the tech industry when they admire founders because they kind of know that he's just such a, you know, a leader and also just so unique, you know, unlike anyone else. I mean, it's just like when people in the tech industry talked about Steve Jobs,

you know, he's kind of like this unique person that had a unique sense of attributes. And so that has actually been really, really striking, but people also want to work with America. I mean, people fundamentally like our country. And I think it's because subconsciously, I think, I really do think it's because people know that we are positive some thinkers. Totally. And so they inherently know that that is a less threatening, you know, world view that working with America does not mean that it is, you know,

zero sum. And so I think that's, you know, really plays a word advantage. I'll make that my last question. Some people predicted that this sort of era, this administration would be, you know, in all forms kind of a retreat from globalization and a weakening of our alliances. But, you know, PAC Silica, you know, represents, you know, great global partnership and strengthening of alliances. One of you, and one thing you talked about is how different countries bring their

own specialization and superpower to the table and we're stronger together. Why don't you just share some examples of what that looks like? Yeah, so I would characterize, you know, you're right. Some people said it's the end of globalization, et cetera. I would obviously counter that. It's not the end of globalization per se. Globalization was a banner that was really used to describe a period of time, where we engaged in unilateral trade concessions

that were completely one-sided with the rest of the world. And when people say globalization, what does that mean? That means a world where we were running massive trade deficits where we basically exported almost nothing while importing everything from the rest of the world. That was globalization. And so what we're doing is actually re-engineering our trade architecture to have a world where we continue trading,

but our trading architecture is on fundamentally more favorable terms that are fair and more reciprocal for American workers than American builders. That doesn't mean that we're against partnering people. We started Paxilica, the president started the Board of Peace. We actually welcome partnering with a lot of other countries who share our interests and our worldview. So the idea that somehow revisiting a lot of the globalization era

arrangements is a retreat from the world, I think is obviously completely false and, you know, very partisan. We're engaged in almost every place on earth. And we just do it in a way that is fundamentally more favorable to our national security interests. Yeah, that's a great place to wrap. Jacob, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of the A16D podcast. If you like this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, and share it with your friends and family. For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Follow us on X and A16Z and subscribe to our substack at A16Z.com.

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