Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - $2M of EBITDA and 50% margins in disaster remediation - Acquisitions Anonymous 194

Episode Date: May 19, 2023

 Bill D’Alessandro (@BillDA)  and Mills Snell (@thegeneralmills) review a disaster remediation business that is cruising. Check it out: https://www.bizbuysell.com/Business-Opportunity/high-margin-insurance-disaster-restoration-mitigation-company/2075480/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=2023-02-28&utm_campaign=7+New+Deals+with+%24500k+in+Cash+Flow-----Thanks to our sponsor!Acquira - your acquisition in a box service. Acquira offers training to help you find, evaluate, and close on a small business. All in under a year.    Their team has bought over 30 businesses across  3 different portfolios. Whether you’re just beginning your business search, actively pursuing a specific deal, or looking to grow your existing company, Acquira’s training and team of experts can help. Their M&A advisors provide individualized support through the entire process. They will provide guidance toward your offer structure, drafting your LOI, in-depth due diligence, and securing funding for your deal.  They will even fly out to the business with you.  Once you acquire a business, they can help you grow it too.Acquira’s ACE Framework will help you transition that business from owner-operated to management-led, increasing profits and allowing you to step away from the daily operations and enjoy doing more of what you love.  And if “more of what you love” is buying and growing more businesses, they can help you build a portfolio of businesses, and eventually get liquidity from that portfolio by selling it to a financial buyer, or selling it to its employees.Space is limited each month, so if you’re looking to acquire a cash-flowing business this year, sign up now at acquira.com/pod-landerSubscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode as Acquisitions Anonymous. This is Bill D'Alessandra, one of your hosts. And this episode, I am joined by Mills. And I love it when it's just me and Mills because we really get into it. And I love how smart Mills is on kind of industrial construction type businesses. This time we do a disaster remediation business with 50% EBITDA margins, totally virtual operations in 10 cities, and $2.2 million of EBITDA. And Newsflash, we actually like this one. So it's a pretty cool deal. I want to say thank you to our sponsors if you're enjoying our podcast.

And you know somebody who would benefit from reaching almost 100,000 small business-interested owners, buyers, and service providers every month. Please drop us a note, we would love to have them sponsor the pod. So with that, let's get into this week's episode of Acquisition Anonymous. Today's sponsor is Acquira, your acquisition and a box service. Acquire exists to help. help you find, evaluate, and close on a small business, all in under a year. Their team has bought and operated over 30 businesses across three different portfolios, so they practice what they preach.

With a crier, you can choose to go through their accelerator, set up your investment thesis, and finance, create a business by yourself, or acquirer can do it for you. Their search team scours the continental U.S. for a business matching your thesis and gets it under LOI. Their unique business model combines an accelerator and investment fund. They can take on minority interest in the business, making them something like a search fund, only you maintain majority control. Once you've signed an LOI, their M&A advisors provide individualized support through the entire diligence and closing process. They will provide guidance

toward your offer structure, in-depth financial and operational deal diligence, and securing funding for your deal. They will fly out to the business with you, and once you acquire a business, they can help you grow out as well. Acquire as ACE framework will help you transition that business from owner-operated to management-led, increasing profits, and allowing you to step away from the daily operations and enjoy doing more of what you love. And if more of what you love is buying and growing more businesses, they can help you build a portfolio businesses and eventually get liquidity from that portfolio by selling it to a financial buyer or selling it to its employees. Space is limited to each month. So if you're looking to acquire cash flowing business this

year, sign up now at acquire.com slash pod hyphen lander. And again, that's aquira.com slash pod hyphen lander. Ah, Mills, welcome to another episode of unsupervised Acquisitions Anonymous without Michael Gurdley. What's up, Bill? How are you? I'm great, man. This is fun. I feel I hadn't seen you a little while.

I know, I know. We went on a camping trip together and then we've been completely strangers. Yeah, I know. I know. We need to another camping trip. We should do, I brought this up to Gurdley on the last episode because I was talking about another guy that was on the trip. And he goes, yeah, I got invited on that trip.

trip and I thought the idea of sleeping outside, you know, was completely off the table and ridiculous. So I think our mission should be like an acquisition anonymous when Ty gets started, our new producer and head of media. We should make the four of us go on a camping trip and we should outvote Gurdley. We should go on that one that we went to because we had like 30 bear encounters in like a 36 hour period. Yeah.

That was an awesome trip. take a boat in to like no cell service, bears and trout fishing. It was great. I didn't catch any fish, but it was still fun. Me either. But I saw someone catch a fish. And I drank some beers. It was pretty good.

And I slept in a hammock. All right. We have a cool deal to that. So will you take us into it? Mills, you're going to be our narrator. You can pull it up. You can pull it up. Yeah.

So this is on Bizby Cell, future aspirational sponsor of the podcast, maybe, if they ever get the memo. But this is a high margin insurance, disaster restoration mitigation company. That's a mouthful. But if you've looked for businesses for sale for any period of time, you've almost certainly come across something like this. The big franchise names are like first response and serve pro and all these different ones.

But this one is, it's listed as $2.2 million in cash flow, $4.1 million in gross revenue, and it's been around since 2016. And it says this is a recession-proof, remote office setup, low overhead. Since 2016, fully remote, no office, no overhead business that completes 30 to 50 disaster restoration projects per month across 10 large cities. They sign contracts directly with building owners when they are in need of emergency help for water, fire, biohazard, spills, and other situations. They do mitigation work only, no repair work, which that's important. We'll talk about that. They use a diverse network of subcontractors.

Billing is done direct to the building owners, insurance company upon completion of the work. We'll talk more about this process. But the property claims industry is $255 billion a year and it's recession proof as incidents happen every day, whether the economy is up or down. Profit margins are approximately 56 to 67%, which I just got to say is not average. That's above average. and that's a little bit of... That is not average.

This industry will always be growing as infrastructure gets older and populations increase. They have seven employees, and that's all the information we have. It looks like... It's kind of like a very clandestine listing. Like, there's no business broker disclosed.

You just have to kind of put yourself out there and try and get some more information, which may mean it's the owner, the seller themselves, trying to list it. But there's a wonderful picture for those of you on YouTube of a guy,

with a bunch of air mover fans and dehumidifiers in what looks like, you know, a school or, you know, a big office building or something like that. Bill, what do you think? I think the margins are bananas. I mean, this, this thing has 4.1 million in sales, 2.2 in EBITDA, and it says it's fully remote, no office, and they do 30 to 50 projects a month, so more than one a day, across 10 large cities. And they use a whole bunch of subcontractors. So, Mills, am I reading this right that I think this is basically a lead gen business? Yeah, yeah, because this is not a super capital-intensive business.

These are really cool. So the scenario, right, is you own a building and a pipe burst in the second floor. And all of a sudden, all this water gets into the building, into the sheetrock and into the carpet. And they have to pull up the carpet. They have to cut back the sheetrock. and they have to dry everything out with these air mover fans and with dehumidifiers, and it usually is covered by insurance. The problem is that when these things happen, you have to have like a storage unit or a trailer

somewhere full of dehumidifiers and fans because you have to mobilize really, really quickly, put all these things in place, and then, you know, basically you get this pre-negotiated daily rate with the insurance company per dehumidifier per fan. that costs money, right, to have a trailer full of these things. And what this business owner has done is they've, in essence, pawned off the capital intensity to their subcontractors, which makes me a little bit suspicious of how high their margins are. You know, they say they don't have any inventory.

So they really are relying on their subcontractors to mobilize and do this. So, yeah, the power that they have in the value chain is that their phone rings enough that they can get 30 to 50 projects a month in 10 different cities. But what's so weird, Mills, that I can't figure out is how they have the pricing power to do this. So if you look at this, they got 50% EBITDA margins, and they're using all subcontractors. So what in layman's terms, this means is if the subcontractor charges $100 for the job, they build a job out at $200. Almost exactly, right?

Yeah, because they're saying there's low to no overhead. Now, in this segment, it's usually a crisis, right? it's a disaster. It's like there's a snake in my kitchen and my wife is freaking out. I'm not going to make five phone calls. Like, I don't care. I want the pest control guy who's on his way right now to get this thing. It's kind of like that.

But you got to imagine the insurance company knows what the market is. Their insurance companies are ridiculously smart when it comes to the pricing power that they have and exacting, you know, some leverage over it. So if the going rate is $125, right, in your scenario, you can't just always charge arbitrarily $200 because the insurance company is not going to, they're not going to just foot the exorbitantly high bill in perpetuity. Well, yeah, so that's my question. If the insurance company kind of has a prenegotiated rate, how are these guys, they must be essentially charging double, right? because I imagine if the person with the flooded basement or flooded school booked it straight with the subcontractor, the subcontractor would charge roughly the same price.

So they're double the market rate. How? And their insurance only reimburses at the market rate, right? Yeah. The thing with the subcontractors, though, is that they usually, especially with the insurance company work, the subcontractors are, I would say less sophisticated, but that sounds like a little bit condescending, they want to get paid right away. So this guy usually probably has to float them, right? He is paying the subcontractor and then he's waiting 45 days or 60 days or whatever it may be

to get paid by the insurance company. So that may be part of why he is actually able to command this is because the subcontractors are like, yeah, theoretically we could go do this direct, but our phone doesn't ring, so to speak, and we don't have a website and we don't have a brand and the insurance companies don't call us, the guy who's the middleman calls us and he pays us, you know, he pays us daily or weekly or per job. Because these things, they don't usually have to be there. I mean, sometimes you're in their shop backing water, you know, with a wet dryback to get the standing water out or pumping it with a sump pump if it's that bad. But then once the water's out, you got to run these things for maybe a week tops, but they're not, they're not in there for a

month. And so it may just be that the subs are wanting to get paid so quickly, and that's why they kind of sit where they do in the value chain. So is it that these, do you think these subs are always subs, or do you think that they book work direct most of the time and occasionally sub? It's really hard to say. I mean, we deal with this in our business some because there are subs that we can use. We predominantly self-perform. And you would think, like in, in situations like this, you're like, hey, just do the math. Like, you could go direct, right? Don't act as a sub, act as, you know, somebody who can do work, you know, directly for these people. But there's a lot to say for the middleman who can deal with the paperwork and kind of the bureaucracy and all the different

checks and balances that are in place. And the subs just usually don't want to do that. Now, they may get, their phone may ring, right? And they may get phone calls to say, hey, look, we had this little thing. Can you come do it? But if, if, if. the insurance company is probably not calling them, right? They may have kind of some random word of mouth that drums up business from them, but it wouldn't be the insurance company. Because to do work for some of these large, you know, institutional folks, whether you're doing property maintenance, you know, just kind of general services, I mean, I've got a friend who owns a business, they change out locks for hotels. You can't just be a guy who does that on the

side occasionally. They want to know, hey, do you do work under this hotel chain banner? Do you do certified work for this manufacturer? Once you have those kind of credentials, all the doors open for you, pardon the pun. But, you know, that is your golden ticket. You can't just be like, hey, I know how to change a lock. Why don't I go do this hotel? It's like 200 doors and you have to do it, you know, in a way that's conducive to the hotel schedule. I think it's probably similar to this. You know, if a school district calls and says they have a leak, you got to be able to mobilize with like, an 18 wheeler worth this stuff. Yeah.

So is this a freaking awesome business? So they specifically mentioned that they've got 10 cities, which I assume that means they've got a couple subs on call in any of those cities. They've probably got a great SEO presence, you know, such that you search for flooded basement in Chicago or whatever. It comes up. And they guarantee that they show up the next day or whatever. like this is a high margin.

If they've got the demand, you know, you've kind of got the network of subs. I assume that you probably got a little bit of a moat here if you're in with the insurance companies, which I would really want to understand to make sure that, you know, there is something there. And it seems like you're providing value because not only you're making the subs phone ring, there's probably a financing angle to it,

which does mean you're going to have some working capital in this business because you've got to pay the sub and you got to underwrite the insurance claim. You got to make sure the insurance claim gets filed the rent. right way. So you do get paid and collect that and, you know, that's in there. But in general, is this a good business? It seems like a good business. All right. Two thoughts. It looks really good right now. But I'd be willing to bet that when you get into the weeds on this, there's, it's not as good. Right. And, you know, we have friends who do a lot more, you know, deal review than we do. And like, the famous adage is like, this is the best it's ever looked. You know, as the deal progresses,

It only gets worse. You don't find these like, you know, gold nuggets laying around everything. So it does look very compelling right now. I think it will get less compelling the further end of the weeds you get because you're going to find that there's some unsustainably high margin. And then, you know, all the normal, like the diligence stuff, there's probably some skeletons in the closet. The other kind of question that I think you brought up that's really important is who is

calling it? Is it the insurance company that's calling them or is it the building owner? And you can make it work either way, but if it's the building owners who are calling them, then they have a fantastic SEO presence. And they are they are a lead generation platform. You can also though in businesses like this just happen to, you know, it could be some good old like business development. This guy or gal, you know, has four or five different insurance carriers and they're like, you're our guy, you know, and we take, you know, trips together every year. And his phone just rings because of it. it depends on who's actually calling and where the kind of lead is coming from and the path of that lead generation.

Either one can work, but if it's just that this guy has a cell phone and like, you know, you hope he's going to give you the phone number when you close the deal, it's, you know, that's a very different scenario than a robust, you know, customer acquisition pipeline. Yeah. So that's probably, which is, well, which is better? Would you rather have, would you rather be wired with like three primary insurers or would you rather have a great SEO business? I would take either, but the deal structure would need to reflect it. So if you just are like buddy, buddy with the right people at the right carriers, then you've got to have a lot more risk mitigation on the back end because they may just like that person. And they also could change jobs and, you know, go work for a different carrier and they may not have the same, you know, flexibility. or whatnot. So you would need a lot more kind of contingent and kind of deferred, you know,

consideration as a part of that. Before you get to lead gen, though, there's a couple ways to be wired with the carriers, right? You can be, as you described, you play golf with the right guy, you've got a good personal relationship, which I agree with you is risky. But the other way to be wired with the carriers is to be in their database on a short list of approved providers that is very hard to get on. And that is much more valuable. Yes, I agree. And I think though there's layers of kind of complexity.

I don't think that's a moat in and of itself. I mean, some of these, like we've gotten on certain kind of databases for job-specific things. We don't do it specatively. But like there's certain databases that it costs you like two or three thousand dollars to get on and maintain on an annual basis. We've never had like tons of work come as a result of that, which is a result of that. kind of what they tout. Like, hey, get in here as an approved vendor and then, you know, you won't believe, like, the way your phone rings. We've had to do it for job-specific reasons, and then it's like, okay, we know that the cost is going to be worth it because we already have

revenue lined up. We're not specking it. It's not a mode in and of itself, but there are certain cases. Like, if you, I think we've talked about some in the past, like, if you have, you know, DOD clearance, you know, secret clearance or top secret clearance or classified clearance, and you can fill in the blank, right? If you're a plumbing contractor who can go into secure facilities, like, that's a ticket, right? If you're, you know, an IT guy, if you're, you know, the HVAC technician, like, you're the janitor, right? Whatever it is that, you know, can get people into secure areas, that's fantastic. There's other, like, and we've talked about some of them in past episodes, you know, if you're a plumber who can get on, like, your municipality's

website as a, you know, as a vendor to call when you need, you know, backflow prevention testing, like those different things, being on the list can help. But I don't think this is a list that's that hard to get on, and I don't think it would be that short of a list for this type of service. Okay, so you think it is more likely a robust lead-gen platform. I think it probably is, like there's a hint in here that made me think, maybe it's just the kind of signs contracts directly with building owners. You would think, though, if they have like a really great process, they'd be talking about it. You just don't have enough information here. We don't have enough information here to know.

There's one piece of information that actually makes me a little skeptical that it's a robust lead-gen organization. And it's the fact that their margins are so good. Yeah. I was hoping you were going to go this route because you got to pay for Legion. Right. So like a robust lead-gen, any company is worth their salt at LeGen, let's be real, is doing paid ads, right?

It is likely, like, even if you have good SEO and you're ranking well in Google, like, it's pretty quickly, easy to go, oh, geez, like if I did some paid ads, I would incrementally, you know, I can pay $5 for a conversion and the average order value is $1,000 or $10,000 or whatever. Like, you could very quickly spend a lot of money on paid ads and have it make accretive sense, right? Like your margin rate would go down, but it would add dollars to your bottom line. So when you see lead gen businesses, pure lead gen businesses, they usually don't have

50% margins, especially when they have hard costs. in them billing out to the subs, right? So you know, like, there's a large bit of hard cost in here. I don't think the subs bill the insurance directly, otherwise the insurance will be getting two bills from these guys and the subs. So you know the subs expense has to be flowing through their P&L. And that leaves like nothing for paid ads. So it would make me wonder if they're not doing any paid pay per click ads, billboard ads, yellow, like whatever. Like, there doesn't seem to be room this P&L for any advertising, it would, it's just not normal for a direct response lead gen business. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. You know, on the $4 million in revenue, you know,

4.1 million in revenue and $2.2 million in cash flow or EBITDA, it's like, okay, the $2 million is paying, you know, is paying for the for the subs, is paying for the actual performance of the work. I don't think there's enough in that $2 million to be paying for customer acquisition and paying, for the actual fulfillment of the work. Yeah, because how much can you mark up the fulfillment? Like, four times? I mean, that would be crazy, right? Yeah.

I don't think so. The other thing about this, I mean, I just get so inherently skeptical about something that is, you know, hey, this is remote and it's easy. That's the way it's made out to be because, hey, we just use subs and we push paper and we collect money. This is, you know, anytime you're putting somebody in somebody else's building to perform work, things will go wrong. And yes, you are kind of deferring and delegating a certain amount of the headache and the personnel management to your sub, but you still have to manage your subs. I mean, we have

more headaches, our experiences, there's more headaches with subs than there are employees. There's more burden and overhead associated with employees, but they're easier to kind of manage and set kind of cultural precedence for how work gets done. Subs are kind of like the Wild West. like depends on the sub and whether or not they do things the way you want. But you can imagine a scenario, 10 different cities, and you're talking about, you know, more than one job per day, you know, on average, things go wrong. Subs don't show up or somebody breaks something. And the owner's like, get your ass here now, you know, and come make this right.

Like, you know, I mean, crazy, crazy things happen. And so, you know, this is not, you know, kind of like smart passive income, you know, And I don't know that it's totally made out to be that way, but that's one of the, I think, difficulties with something like this is you're going to have to go when emergencies happen. And they say seven employees, and maybe those are, you know, maybe those are folks who are doing some of this project management. But then again, there's not a lot of overhead to cover all that. I mean, the margins. That's the thing. I just, I does, it says it got seven employees, though.

So, I mean, you could see seven employees, you know, booking subs, doing pain in the bus. all that stuff, but I bet you got a couple of them, you know, billing insurance, collecting that, you know, who not, I would actually love to learn more about this business. Like, it's possible, it's possible this owner has, like, dialed systems and has figured this out. And now, you know, let's talk about if this is good, right? They are in 10 cities. And if there are, like, this is a 50% margin business with $2 million of EBITDA,

in 10 cities with seven employees, right? The obvious thing to do, like, if this is what we think it is, the systems are very good, right? The lead gen system, the job booking system, the follow up, the billing, the collect, like the systems are super good. If the systems are that good, the opportunity to buy this business is clearly just go into the next 20 cities. Right? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's interesting and it's intriguing, I think, from a few different fronts. the skeptic in me, and I know I'm the perennial skeptic, is this is a fairly saturated, like people know there's franchises in this space. Like it is, it's not like the new thing. This is, buildings have always leaked, like pipes always burst, you know, and remediation has to happen. It's gotten, I think, increasingly sophisticated, and there's been more institutional ownership, you know, with some of these different groups who are doing it in a franchise or kind of a

multi-unit model. And so it's not a sustainable margin. But to your point, even if it's 35% margin, right? And you can kind of normalize it at that level and then go out to, you know, the next 10 biggest cities and get your subnetwork. I totally agree. So I'm sharing on the screen on YouTube, this is, to your point, Mills, this is the thing that makes me scratch my head about this business. So I just search for Charlotte flooded basement, which is where I live. look at this search engine result page.

The first block is three ads and not just three ads, three like Google SEO optimized with star ratings and number of years in business and store hours and all that stuff. And 24-7. Open 24-7. Open 24-7. And the links are serve pro, serve pro, and Sunshine Restoration, whoever that is. Then you get down into like the real sponsored ads.

You've got Restorationlocal.com at your door. 60 minutes or less. Then you've got another sponsored ad, Ally Property Rescue. And then finally, okay, that's just the sponsors. That one says 45 minute on site response.

Yeah, they're one up at each other. 15 minutes faster. So like, but now you get, okay, that's just the ads, which illustrates that if you're in this industry,

how tempting it is to pay for ads, right? Like the whole, you know, 60% of the SERP is ads. But now when you get down into the actual ranking results, the first one,

DryProsystems.com, uh, with Charlotte in the, title. The next one, basement waterproofing company in Charlotte NC with North Carolina in the URL and the directory structure. These are SEOed to the tilt, you know, pages, right? All of these have Charlotte NC in the title. The keyword's exactly right. And there are a ton of them. So, you know, a million mom and pops. And the SEO game here is pretty good. So it makes me wonder, as you said, How are these guys getting such good margins?

If they're not paying for ads, they're either SEO complete wizards or there's something else going on that we haven't thought about, which almost has to, like, we must be off track, right? Yeah. Like, maybe they do have insurance company relationships. Like, there's got to be something else here. So I'm, I'm interested. I would, on this one, you know, get the same and learn more.

Yeah. Yeah, it's very intriguing. So you got to think, though, right? If it's $2.2 million in cash flow. under what scenario, right? I mean, you almost can't buy this business. Like, you know, I think about it in terms of, you know, it's my famous soapbox. Like, does it pencil?

You can only pay so much because, like, the cash flow has to support the debt service. So unless somebody, and I think there has been some consolidation in the space, obviously, but you can't pay more than a purchase price that reflects, you know, debt service over, you know, 1.75, maybe, you know, $1.8 million worth of total debt service. And so there's a ceiling at some point on the price of this thing. And anything above that is just, you know, basically predicated on growth. Hey, we're just going to grow so much that the debt service doesn't matter. Yeah. I mean, I would think, I would think this sells for, what's interesting, before I say that, there is no asking price on the listing. And I've never really seen this on BIS by Sell before.

it just says NA for the broker. So it's like totally anonymously listed with no asking price. This makes me think it's listed for sale by owner. Yeah, probably on biz buy sell. And this is probably the person who's like, I need to see $10 million in your bank account certified, you know, before I'm willing to like tell you any information. Yeah.

So that's the, I mean, this is like the tough thing and the exciting thing. Like this business, let's say it is a really good business, right? On the one hand, that's sort of what you hope you'll find. a really good business that's not represented by the broker and you might be able to get a market inefficient deal in your favor, right? On the other hand, when there is no broker, you're going to want a bullet in the head like multiple times, right? Because this seller is going to think this business is worth $50 million. Or he's going to want unreasonable terms or he's not going to be able to produce the diligence documents and accuse you of thinking that he is a shady

person and don't trust him. Like, I mean, there's a, he's going to, he's going to to try to change the price at the last minute. There's going to be a million things here when there's no broker in the middle. Doing a deal without a broker is the worst. If you've ever done one, it's terrible. If you're listening, don't like deals without a broker just strap in. It's miserable. And everybody thinks it's the golden goose, you know?

Yeah, but it can be. You know, like we bought an actual dog without a broker and it was a smash for us. Yeah. Right? But you pay for it. She actually hired a broker at the last minute because we insisted. We insisted. she hire a broker and a lawyer. She was trying to do it. She was trying to do the deal with her

like brother who was an attorney and had never done a deal before. He was like an estate attorney or so. He was like a not an MA attorney. It was like trying and he was completely blowing the deal because we were asking for like market reps and warranties. And he was like, we will not accept a rep for fraud or like just like basic. You know, he's like absolutely not. And he almost blew up the deal. And I was like, you need a hire an attorney. Here's three lawyers that I've never. work with before, pick one, and I will pay for it. Yeah. You know what ended up happening?

She hired none of the three people. I asked her to hire who I had vetted that were from high class firms and would do a good job. Instead, she hired some Texas cowboy M&A lawyer slash a small business broker who also nearly destroyed the deal and sent me his bill at the end. and I freaking paid it, believe it or not. All's well that ends well, but it's nothing, nothing's easy, man. I feel like I say that every day. Nothing's easy.

None of this is easy. I mean, I think probably a lot of our listeners realize this by now. Like this is, I just love our friend Brent B. Shore calls it the knife fight. And it just is. Sometimes there's actual knife fight, as you've told me in several stories. Yes. Yeah. Get into roofing.

It's all peachy. All right. I think it's a good place to wrap it. Yeah. I'm going to send this guy a message with my, you know, name and phone number and email and just see. I'm just so curious about what the response is going to be. I wish I'd done this 48 hours ago, you know,

and then I could tell you like you would not believe what I got back. Maybe we'll do a follow up on Twitter. Yeah. All right. We'll wrap it there. Thanks for listening. See you guys next time.