Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - A $119k/yr side hustle SaaS selling to K12? - Acquisitions Anonymous 219

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

Girdley (@girdley), Heather (@EndresenHeather), and Bill (@BillDA)  listen to comments on previous episodes and focus on a smaller business that could be a side hustle for someone. This is a solid SaaS business selling to K12.Check out the listing here: https://app.acquire.com/startup/8BT21wtP0zPDckzrZcf3hXDooaJ2/sZ04QGCuyBYU7b47U4gX___________________Thanks to our sponsors!Acquisition Lab. Acquisition Lab and their team have been longtime supporters of the pod.Created by Walker Diebel author of Buy Then Build: How to Outsmart the Startup Game, is an accelerator with a highly vetted cohort-based educational and support community for people serious about buying a business.A lot of our listeners tune in each week to our deal reviews, want to get in on buying a business, but don’t know where to start.Acquisition Lab exists to help people buy a business and navigate all the complexities of the process, as well as provide a trusted framework, tools, and resources to support you from search to close.If you are serious about buying a business check out acquisitionlab.com or email the Lab's director Chelsea Wood, [e-mail].-------------CloudBookkeeping offers adaptable solutions to businesses that want to focus on growth with a “client service first” approach. They offer a full suite of accounting services, including sophisticated reporting, QuickBooks software solutions, and full-service payroll options.Subscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Hey, Michael here. Welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous Internet's number one podcast about buying, selling, and operating, and investing in small businesses. Based on list or feedback, today we did a really fun deal that is much smaller than a lot of the deals we've been doing recently and might be perfect for somebody looking to do a deal and buy a business and run it as a side hustle. And this one was super cool because it was a software business, which we all love. And then also had some really interesting dynamics in terms of who the customer.

customers were. So hope you enjoy the episode as much as we did, also went some fun places with discussions, and we're all kind of punched drunk for this being a Friday for our recording. So hope you will have as much fun as we did recording the episode. Here it is. This episode of Acquisitions Anonymous is sponsored by Acquisition Lab. Acquisition Lab and their team, they've been longtime supporters of the pod, and they provide a really great service for people who are looking to acquire a business. So it's created by Walker Diabell, who's become a friend, the author of Buy, Then Build, how to outsmart the startup game.

So Acquisition Labs is an accelerator with a highly vetted, cohort-based, educational, and support community for people who are serious about buying a business. So a lot of our listeners like you, you turn in every week to our deal reviews,

you want to get in on buying a business. You're on this podcast because you're trying to learn how to buy a business. But if you're not quite sure where to start, Acquisition Lab is a great place to start. So they exist to help people buy a business and to navigate all those complexities of the process, everything you hear us talk about on the show.

They provide a proven framework, tools, and resources that support you all the way from search to close. They do it. There's a whole bunch of educational material and support. So if you're serious about buying a business, check out AcquisitionLab.com, or you can actually email the program director, Chelsea Wood directly. Her email is Chelsea at buy then build.com. All right, Heather, since Bill wasn't here yesterday, I got to do what I did yesterday again

today go, what up nerds? We need to do this deal that I have. Anyway, it didn't work better yesterday. Heather didn't work for a good day. Are we the nerds or are the listeners the nerds in this example? I think the listeners and us. I think it's all of us.

It was basically like my intro yesterday was listen here, nerds, we need to do this deal that I found. It's that amazing. And Mills and Heather were like, what is going on here? We're like stunned. Yeah, we were like what? We're told there be no aggression on this podcast.

We're cool. We're not nerds. We're cool. So cool. This is the coolest podcast on the internet, actually. It totally is. Okay, so I found a deal. And, you know, we've, Bill, I think you and I are very attracted to bigger deals for obvious reasons because we like to do big stuff. That's just how we're wired. but we got some feedback, like, give us some small deals, like find something that, like, somebody could do as a side hustle. So I found one on MicroQuire that I think is pretty interesting

and has some interesting dynamics. So here, I'll pull it up and I will read it if that's okay because I gave you guys no notice as to what it is. Yeah, please read it to us. So this is going to be true. In case you ever doubted that this was a scripted show, it's not. It's cold off the cuff. So here we go.

Or if it's scripted, it's just like the worst scripting ever. We'll do it live. Let's go. Man, but I watch those guys like the Acquire.com, you know, the Acquire guys, David Senra, like the amount of work those guys have to put into prep is just out of control. But I think also you lose spontaneity,

which is what's cool about this. So anyway, I'll be quiet now. Okay, so this is off of the site formerly known as Microacquire and now Acquire.com. And so it is a small SaaS startup. So it's a B2B SaaS suite that includes Google Sheet extensions with a current focus on the K to 12 market. It has a profitable SaaS, 120,000 in trailing 12 months revenue and 119,000 in trailing 12 months profit that creates a full funnel solution for the ITM professional who mostly deals with Google Chromebooks.

This suite of Google sheet extensions and tools for ITM professionals in the B2B space is mostly focused on the K to 12 market. I've witnessed this firsthand. Like Chrome, Google and Chromebooks are like everywhere in public ed. Like they're just like, they're all over the place. So if you go into these classrooms and stuff, like they all have Chromebooks. And that blows me away because have you ever used a Chromebook? It's really annoying because they don't have a local file system. So it's basically like you have Google Docs and stuff and then you have to save stuff in Google Drive.

Right. And like there's no local file system at all. It's basically like a browser attached to a keyboard. 100%. Well, and that's the crazy thing about Chrome or like the iPad. Like the iPad could replace all of our laptops if it had some level of file handling that was, you know, coherent. I know. That's what I don't get.

People are like, oh, yeah, I just work on my iPad. And I'm like, how do you do anything? Like you can't save anything. You can't like, it's so cumbersome to use the local file system on an iPad. My daughter, when she went away to college, insisted for her college computer to have an iPad. And I said, no, you shouldn't do that. You should get a laptop. No, she had to have it.

And guess what? A year later, I had to buy her laptop. I said, I told you so. Yep. It's a million percent. Well, like, you know, you're on the road and you're like, oh, I only brought my iPad. And you're like, I've got to sign this document or open up, edit this one. square in a spreadsheet and it's like a 14 minute triple lindy and you're like I just wish I

have my laptop I know I like the simple task of like receiving an attached file yes making a small edit to the file and sending it back to the person is a triple axle on an iPad and takes 10 seconds on a laptop I don't get it like is this not a core workflow like this is like the lightweight like oh I'm going somewhere maybe just bring my iPad like this is like the core lightweight workflow, receive a document, make small edit, send it back, and it's impossible on an iPad. I don't get it. Well, welcome everybody to this week's episode of this week of technology as we discussed problems with your... Oh my God. Michael, are we old? Is this what just happened? I just got old right now. Okay, boomer. Oh, no. You did. You did. Welcome.

It's happening. Well, it's just a matter. I don't know how old your parents are, but it's just a matter or time until eventually, you know, you reach the relationship where your parents or relatives want to see you. And then just stuff magically happens to break and you're the only person in the world who can come over and fix it. So you're like, I've been, yes, that's me for the last 30 years of my life. I'm that guy, my family. We need to see Bill. Break the printer. Break the printer. We need to see Bill. Pretty much. Pretty much. Which means that if I'm getting all my family's in real trouble, because I'm the only one that can help them. So if I can't help them anymore, I have had a startup idea, which I think somebody should still do, which is the tech support for the internet.

And it's basically just like you're a remote, like, you know, Heather, your mom is someplace, right? Theoretically, and you just pay $150 a month. And she gets unlimited phone calls to call them anytime to help with her iPad, her printer, her internet's not working. Yes. Her phone. But $150 a month. Grandma can burn four hours no problem in an afternoon. She's not nothing to do.

It would have to be $1,000 a month. So here's the deal. I've actually looked at some business like this. I actually looked at one that was for sale once. The way they make it work is actually they put the call centers in like these random jurisdictions like the Ukraine. And that's probably a bad, or Eastern Europe or whatever, Hungary. Okay.

And so that does two things. One is because the people don't, there aren't native North America, grandma is much less likely to just call up and chat with them. The second thing is it's like super cheap. So like the gross margins on these businesses, the consumption was like super low because people were paying for the service and they'd call like for 12 minutes once a month. There you go.

It's a great business. It's a great business. I must be really old because I'm already at the stage where my kids are the people who help me figure stuff out. So I mean, they're not kids anymore. They're in their 20s. But you know, when you got people in their 20s,

They know stuff that I just don't get and they figure it out and they fix stuff for me. Well, that's how you get to see them, right? You're the one that's breaking the printer to make the kids come over. I am. I'm already there. I'm at that stage. Okay, so back to the deal. So this company was founded in 2019.

They make Google sheet extensions for the K to 12 market, especially for Chromebooks. They're open to all offers, trailing 12 months revenue was $156,000. Trailing 12 months' profit was $120,000. and they have a startup team size of three people. And here is a bit more about what it is. This is a suite of SaaS products that are currently sold independently, however they all have strong customer synergy. There is a Google Sheets extensions,

which has a core premium and a domain plan, which functions anywhere from $9 a month up to $1,350 a year. Then they have a thing that's called an ITAM software product. And I think I need to Google what ITAM is. I'll tell you, it's IT asset management. Okay. So this is the people like for the school who are making sure that the 4,000 Chromebooks, two of them do not walk out every day.

Okay. Correct. And where are they and who are they issued to? And I got to remotely wipe one of them or all that stuff. Based on the number of assets and help desk agents, under 1,000 is $19.90 a month. One to $5,000 is $59.99. Man, this is really cheap. Help test agents are 2999 a month per agent.

Man, this is one of those things where you know, you see these businesses sometimes that price stuff like it's a consumer product but are selling B2B and it's like puts yourself in like no man's land almost impossible to build a scalable business. Anyway, that was just. We can talk separately about how impossible it is to sell into education. 100%. Like so hard.

Although I want, what I've got to believe here is that this is, is to self-serve. I mean, there's no way at these price points and also in education, like, and only three people on the team, like, they're just, this is word of mouth on school IT administrators, right? This is just good, which is really exciting, actually, that it's just kind of organically worming its way into school IT. Which I think is the only way to sell to that kind of industry, through the back door,

not through the front door, because it'll take way too long and the approval process and whatnot. That's what I was thinking. do say they have 200 customers, but I guess is that users or is that schools? It's probably users. I bet it's schools because then they're selling. They're talking about like seats underneath each license. So I would bet it's like a lot more seats, but 200 like master accounts. So is that enough income for 200 schools? I don't know. I guess you're right. It's just priced so cheaply. Well, here they have that that's, I mean, it looked like for their enterprise product for a domain, For the Google Sheets extensions, it's $16.50 a year.

That's their highest price they charge anybody for this stuff. But I just Googled this market. So maybe you go to market cheap and then you hike the price later. Like this is probably pretty sticky. Potentially. But man, like I go, so they list competitors here, Amplified IT, Snipe IT, 1 to 1 Plus, asset tiger, asset panda. So we know it's none of those.

But like I Google that and literally there are, 15 different me-toes doing the exact same thing in the first page of Google results. Like just total, total red ocean of this stuff. So I don't know. That hasn't been worried maybe the switching costs are higher than we, or lower than we think. Possible. Right.

So basically what this is is built, they've built like an IT asset management tool that usually exists as a desktop app. Right. You, the IT administrator, install it on all the laptops that you administer. And then you have like a master console and you can lock them when, you know, and this also,

by the way, happens in companies all the time, right? Like an employee gets fired. You want to lock the laptop. You want to remote wipe the laptop. You know, whatever.

You know, keep all this. It pushes updates the operating system and the software to laptop. You know, you keep track of whose laptop is being used. Oh, wow,

this user hasn't logged in in four weeks. Maybe something's going on, you know, et cetera. So they've basically taken that and rebuilt it as a Chrome extension so it can run on Chromebooks in an education environment. I think. I think it's cool. Yeah, it is a cool product, for sure.

Yeah, so I guess first question is, do we have to worry that Google will eventually put this stuff into the Chromebooks? Because that's with stuff like this where you can see it, you know, being a feature extension, you have to worry about that kind of stuff happening. Microsoft's famous for doing that for years, right? Like you start, they start with a third party, third party partner. let's say you were to create a spreadsheet, Lotus 1, 2, 3,

and then later on Microsoft comes along and builds Microsoft Excel and crushes you through bundling. So I guess do we have to worry about that with this one? Are all these guys going to get eaten up when Google decides to put this into the Chromebooks? Very possible. In fact, that is so possible I would want to understand the native capabilities already,

because I know that, I mean, the reason Chromebooks are everywhere in education is because Google made a big push to get Chromebooks everywhere in education, right? So if you were Google and you create a new hardware product and you were pushing an education, you would understand their need for an IT asset management solution. So, and there's also there's Google workspace, right, which is Google's, you know, IT product, right? So you can issue email addresses. And there is device management, lightweight device management built into that. So I would want to deeply understand. understand why this, this is, I assume is a super set of the features that Google offers, right? Like, this is whatever Google offers is probably bare bones and this is like, makes it way better. So I'd want to understand how it's different. And that's not always bad because there's always going to be enthusiast products in the market, right? Like the core product is always not going to serve everybody's needs. You know, like Apple makes cases for their iPhones, but that doesn't mean that the iPhone case market is gone. You know, so it could be the same thing here. You just got to understand it.

100%. So what were they asking for this business? It says open to offers. So two interesting things. So let me point out the first one. Here's the statement from the seller. I'm ready to hand this over to an operator who will renew the excitement in the project. And I'm put an asterisk bold next to that word.

They refer to it as a project. I've been growing this project for almost four years now. And I would like to change my focus to something much less time consuming in my life besides growing a B2B SaaS. Very interesting when somebody describes their business as a project. And so anyway, I just wanted to point that out in terms of how potentially this business has been handled and the mindset of the founder getting it off the ground, right? This looks like more of a technology project and less of a business building exercise from what I can tell.

But isn't that really promising a lot of times? I like it, baby, right? All right, taking a quick pause here. I have something to tell you. This is Michael. I hate bookkeeping. I hate bookkeeping. I hate doing HR.

I hate doing all that kind of stuff. But for bookkeeping, I have found a solution. It is my friend Charlie's business called cloudbookkeeping.com. So that's cloudbookkeeping.com. They are your perfect partner if you want to get bookkeeping out of your hair and focus on making your customers happier and more successful. So please give them a call. Call Charlie, cloudbookkeeping.com.

Tell them we sent you. They're a great way. If you're a business buyer, if you're a business owner, you're tired of hassling with getting your bookkeeping done. He's got a whole fleet of people that are well trained and work for him. He's located here in San Antonio, so I can tell you because of that, he's awesome. And they're a great partner for you to potentially call to help with all your bookkeeping needs so you can do the important stuff in your business rather than worry about getting your books right.

give Charlie a call, cloudbookkeeping.com, and now back to the episode. He's got, it's a sidehuff, right? I think. He wants to, it sounds like it's been time consuming. Maybe he has been selling into schools and that's what's so time consuming. Or maybe he's coding it himself. Either way, you got to understand that because he's going to go away when you buy this business and you're going to start doing the time consuming part, whatever that is, right, and that he doesn't want to do it anymore. So there's a, I wouldn't say a red flag, but definitely diligence item. So second thing I just noticed when I googled this kind of asset management problem for school districts is it reminded me of what happened during COVID. Do you guys remember during

COVID like all the schools were like shipping home Chromebooks to people's houses and all this kind of stuff? That happened here in our school district. Like suddenly the next thing I knew like the school at school had sent home a Chromebook to a bunch of the kids, not us because we were one of the fortunate ones to have our own computers, but had sent home Chromebooks to all. all these kids with MiFi devices so they could do school online. And it makes me also wonder how much of this is, you know, going to be a post-COVID kind of hangover for this type of stuff, right? Like, because as far as I know, like, the school districts that were really heavy

in buying those stuff here locally to give everybody Chromebucks, like, they're not doing it anymore. They have all the kids back in school. So I think that's another thing to think about here is what is the, what is the multi-year set of revenue? Because we don't see it here on the teaser. Yeah, I mean, that's the same time, though, I think you've got, even if they're in school, a lot of times the kids have Chromebooks in school. 100%.

You know, like a lot of middle and high schools are issuing laptops to all their students now anyway, because all the lesson plans are online. It's all, you know, everything's, even the textbooks are digital a lot of times now. Which makes me think that this kind of really small solution probably does get eaten up by something bigger, you know, it makes it more vulnerable if all of education is really sort of going this way. This is a really tiny solution with really probably very small customer set, maybe very specific. Maybe these aren't public schools. Maybe these are private schools that are using it, you know, because it is so hard. You know, the public schools probably have restrictions against just going online and, you know, managing your assets this way.

You probably can't do that. But a little small private schools maybe are the customers here. That's my guess. Great point. Yeah. in a big in a big red ocean like this, that's been my experience of what you have to do to make a business like this work.

You have to pick a niche that you're going to own and then try to find features that will go straight at that niche and that way you can own it. So like when we started our software business, Dura, like the very first acquisition we made was very similar administration software. But it turned out we bought this software, it was in a red ocean of software you would use to administer

are these tablets, so Samsung Android tablets. But it was really useful in the following scenario. Huge deployments, so like 30 to 50,000 plus devices in kiosks for a single purpose, often with cross-border stuff involved. And so like when that scenario came up, like we were the default, like, perfect solution for it because everybody else didn't have the right combination and features for it. But if we tried to compete, like in the general purpose area, like maybe these guys are doing, like we always struggled because the bigger guys were optimized for that and just had better

feature sets and more economies of scale and stuff like that. So anyway, if I was to own this, I would really want to figure out, like, compared to Asset Tiger and Snipe IT and all this stuff, like, what is the niche I'm going to own? And I can just go target that one thing, whether it's private schools, whether it's, you know, schools on Air Force bases, whatever that is. like, how do I go win that? And, you know, what I'm seeing here is not inspiring that they've found a niche where you can really have some defensibility. But anyway, so it sort of reminds me of, I have a story about Chromebooks in education. So this was during the pandemic. And there's this website

called Municipid, which is for cities and counties and government entities, right, not the federal government, but all local government entities, to liquidate assets that they don't need. trucks, boats, weird pumps, technology equipment. I mean, it's fascinating. Municipate. My friend Greg owns it. This is not a paid plug for it, but it's just cool. I go on there once in a while and check it out. You know, like old fire trucks. I mean, just like cool shit. So I'm cruising a municipal one day during the pandemic. And on municipal it is a lot of like 4,000 Chromebooks, like a ton, like pallets of Chromebooks. And I'm sure you guys remember during the pandemic, you couldn't find a Chromebook anywhere because, as you said, all the schools were buying them

and issuing them to all their kids. So like every Chromebook in the world was sold out. And here on Municipid is like 4,000 Chromebooks, like wrapped up in pallets and they are new. And I went, holy crap, like this is a gold mine. So the thought is, right, like buy bees and then list them on Amazon, right? And make a spread. The trouble was like in aggregate, it was like 500 grand. And this was at a time the pandemic where I was going, I'm not sure if my own business is going to survive.

This was in like June 2020. And like maybe I shouldn't lay out 500 grand on a side hustle. So I didn't do it. But I did talk to Greg about it. What I learned was that it was a government entity that shall not be named that bought these, like spent far more than half a million dollars, and discovered that it was not compatible with their application. Like their application could only run in Microsoft Internet Explorer or something. And they wanted to keep it on the hush, hush, because they were embarrassed that they had spent all this taxpayer dollars and then like, how? had to flip it on a liquidation site.

Like, they lost, like, somebody made a boo-boo and, like, lost a million dollars at a time when, like, these Chromebooks were a super hot commodity. And so someone did win the bid on municipal bid and probably made hundreds of thousands of the dollar slipping these things at a time when they were really red-hot. That's incredible. So I saw, can I tell you to share a similar story I saw happen? At the beginning of the pandemic, like, I saw that people were. very early on, like, trying to, like, buy and sell large quantities of N95 masks, like the masks.

So, so, like, some of these guys did really very well because they went and saw that there was, like, a stockpile of 50,000 of them in Brazil, and went and bought them, took them, sold them in a profit. Some of those people, of course, scumbags and, like, tried to, like, sell them for way too much money. But it just ties back to this, like, you know, so much, so much of opportunity gets created when you have a prepared. mind and you're just like ready to pounce on something like that. By the way, I did that the other day. I got texted that a very large bicycle was for sale. And like I don't really need a bicycle, but like I knew it was 80% off and it was a good deal. So I just went over and bought it. But it was just like I just had been in the game for a while that I knew like, okay, I can pounce on this. And so, you know, I think that's this idea of if you want to find opportunities,

you've got to be like exploring them all the time. You've got to be staying in kind of the game and watching the stream of information such that when like that really, fat fish comes along, like the story you just told Bill or like the masks or my bicycle story, like they're all kind of the same theme, like prepared mine, meech opportunity, and then you just got to pounce on it. I have a tangential one. Oh, no, go ahead. Michael.

I have one that kind of crosses over both of your stories. I had a client who during COVID, they provided office supplies to the federal government. And they were trying to get some in 95 masks to add to their website. and they lost a million dollars trying to do that at that time. And, you know, they got ripped off, basically. They got trying to secure. They bought masks and then they just wired money and then the masks. They put the money out and didn't get the masks.

Yep. Yep. And it was a million dollars. And so during that time, there was a lot of scams too. And that's the thing. You know, you look for the opportunities, but you've got to be really careful because even smart people can get scammed. Oof, oof. Yeah. And also, that was the thing on the mask, too. I can tell my hand sanitizer story at the peak of COVID another day. But like, it was pretty obvious. Like there's this massive gold rush. Like people call me for advice and like starting a PPE company. And I'm like, you realize like this is a bubble. Right. Like the demand for this is going to go away. A bunch of people are going to get caught holding bags, like holding tons of tons of masks and suddenly nobody wants them. I mean, it's like, it's a lot.

like, just know that there's a huge embedded risk. Like, this is going to effectively zero at some point. Yeah. Totally. Scary. Scary. I don't think, I don't think this SaaS business is that, to be clear. Well, it definitely, you know, it's, you see this pattern of stuff where you get involved in it.

And it's, you can clearly see that the cycle is going to go back the other way. And you just want to figure out where you are on the cycle. But, okay, so I have a question for you guys. So there is this profile of person who listens to the podcast. and who is out there on Twitter, and they are like, hey, they want to get their toe wet with maybe like a smaller business,

keep their day job, open it up, and use that as a way to generate potentially side hustle income and also to get exposed to the lifestyle of doing entrepreneurship. Is this a good candidate for them? Like, should they do this business or not?

And why? Okay, so I have a few thoughts. In some ways, yes. The size is right. So it's not like super huge. I don't think you're going to have to lay out a ton of money to buy this business. I like it because the size is right. SAS is not bad, right?

Because you're not moving a bunch of atoms around the world. You don't have a warehouse and the value chain is a little simpler. So I like those things about it. The thing that worries me about it a little bit is if you don't have any software development background, this is a semi-complicated piece of software because there's the client-side application that runs on all the Chromebooks, and there's what I'm going to call the server side. I know there is not client-server model, but there's like the admin side that has to run for all of the school admins, and they've got to talk, and you need access to the Chromebook.

This isn't like a basic, you know, create, read, update, delete, crud, address book, SaaS app or something. You know, there's a little bit more going on here. So if you're totally non-technical, I would worry. And then there's the end market thing that it may take more of your time to sell in. So those two things would worry me. Yeah. I agree with all that. And I think that the 120,000 probably goes to zero if you're not a developer who totally

understands this product, because that's probably what the seller is contributing is sort of free development labor. That's my guess. I've certainly seen it many times. So if you're coming along and you're thinking the sales side is what you're going to do, you're probably going to eat up all of that $120,000 in developers, and you've got to find developers who can understand this product and do a great job of it. So I don't know how much cash flow you'd get.

It would be an interesting project, a side hustle for somebody, but I don't know that they'd have a lot of cash flow off of it once the seller leaves. If you had to hire a full-time developer, yes. I agree. Right, that's my thought. The cash flow here is 120K, and that's easily what a full-time developer costs. Right. But if you are technical,

like if you're, I love this. If you're a developer, like a full-time developer, you want to like get an entrepreneurship on the side, perfect. That's a great point. Yeah.

Okay. Well, cool. Let's, let's wrap it up there. Two things. One, sorry I called you guys nerds, but it was met with love. Two, if you've made it this far through our Friday stories,

there were some good ones today. Please take one of these episodes and send it to a friend. and say, hey, I enjoyed this, and I think you should too, and ask them to subscribe. And our downloads are going up. Bill, you weren't here. I told everybody in the last recording session, we're pushing up towards our never-ending March to a million download a year run rate. Like pretty awesome.

We're getting there. But where we could use everybody's help on the listener side, the content is free. Our ask is just tell your friends about it, so more people will be listeners. and we'll keep, we'll keep, we'll keep producing as long as you guys keep listening. So, awesome. I will click stop there and we'll see you in about three minutes when we start recording again.