Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - A $519k ARR Shopify-ecosystem Saas business / A $1.1mm DTC sexual wellness company - e23

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

New episode alert!We talk two businesses for sale on @microacquire with CEO @agazdecki.-a $519k ARR Shopify-ecosystem Saas business-a $1.1mm DTC sexual wellness company-----* Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel.* Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show!* Follow us on twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations.-----Past guests on Acquanon include Nick Huber, Brent Beshore, Aaron Rubin, Mike Botkin, Ari Ozick, Mitchell Baldridge, Xavier Helgelsen, Mike Loftus, Steve Divitkos, Dzmitry Miranovich, Morgan Tate and more.-----Additional episodes you might enjoy:#62 Two Landscaping Businesses for Sale - Mike Loftus CEO of Connor's Landscaping#66 Analyzing Software Businesses for Sale with Steve Divitkos, experienced industry CEO#42 $900k Moving and Storage Company / $500k Rural Mini-Storage#61 Two Manufacturing Businesses for Sale - Brent Beshore - Founder and CEO at Permanent Equity#24 $5mm pool services and lifeguard staffing co / $2mm septic services business -  featuring baller @WilsonCompanies as a special guest!#45 $800k/yr cleaning business in Midland, TX / a $565k/yr window cleaning business in San Antonio, TX #48 Two Landscaping Businesses for Sale - Mike Botkin of Benchmark Group--- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dealtalk/supportSubscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

All right, everybody. Welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous. We're here recording on a Friday. Another exciting day. I'm here, Michael Gridley, with my co-host Mills and Bill. How's it going, guys? Hello, hello. Fantastic.

We're peppy as peppy as I've seen us on a Friday afternoon. And we have a special episode today. So this is a podcast where we talk about small businesses for sale. And we have a wonderful Twitter celebrity and all-round good guys. with us, Andrew Gazdecki of MicroQuire. So Andrew, welcome. Thanks for having me. And thank you for pronouncing my last name correctly. I always do that. When I go on a podcast and they ask me, how do I pronounce this before we start? I always say I won't tell you and see if you can get it right live.

It's really good. I will tell you, it makes the host feel very secure in themselves. Anyway, we're so glad you're here. I mean, I think part of the reason I'm excited that you're here, besides you're a great guy, is the genuine service that what you're doing with MicroQuire is providing the community of small business, you know, digital business owners who are trying to move on from their businesses. So it's been cool to watch you and the journey of the business since you started it over, I guess, less than a year ago. Yeah, I definitely appreciate that. You want me to give you like the two minutes sort of background. Yeah, tell us how you got to where you are today, how you came up with the idea and what the business is about. The short story

before micro choir, I've been an entrepreneur my whole career. I started a company in college called business apps. It was a do-yourself app builder. I call it the GeoCities of App Builders. We built like way too many apps. We actually made more mobile apps than any other company in the world at one point. But not all of them are like high quality like GeoCities. So that was a fun time. managed that company until about 2018 and then sold to ESW Capital, started a blockchain trading company after that, sold that to B&K to the future. That was mostly an asset IP sale. Then after that, I just kind of thought my group wire should exist. I was looking to buy SaaS company initially and looked at the typical spots that you would look if you're just starting out in the market

and just felt there should be something, an alternative option for founders looking to sell without commissions and allowing buyers to connect directly with the founders instead of having someone in the middle. So yeah, and also funny note about microchbire, I literally have a journal entry that says, before I launched it, it says, like, I don't think this is going to work.

It's a startup that's helping startups meet startup buyers, but at least it looks really good. So if no one uses it, at least it looks good. But yeah, it's been, it's been fun to see it grow so far. And yeah, just looking to help entrepreneurs to get acquired next to their business. Yeah, that's great. I think you just passed 400K and ARA. Is that right?

Yeah, we're getting there. We're at like 370, but by the time you publish this, probably 400. Yeah. I'll tag you in the tweet. Well, here's what will happen. After this podcast, you're going to be at 500. So, yeah. Well, great. So you brought a couple of listings to digital businesses that are on microacquire.

So which one do we want to talk about first? That's of you guys. Let's do the one that will be the politically correct challenge. That's the one I'm most excited about. Let's go for that one. This is what the people are here to see is us to talk about the sexual wellness company. So let's do it. You want me to give the high-level details of the business, then we'll go from there? Yeah, tell us about it.

All right. So this one, I wasn't really sure if I should list this one on microquire. So for context, for the audience, it's in the sexual wellness space. It's a profitable e-commerce business. It's doing $1.1 million in TTM revenue, $350,000 in TTM profit. Looking healthy each month, $80,000 in profit last month. Competitors listed, we vibe, Dane. I'm not familiar with either of those companies but asking price three million 150,000 SBA loan and 40,000 forgivable PPP and they sell some very interesting products. So they're doing last 12 months they've done a bit over a million in revenue. Is that right? 1.1 TTM. Okay. And then 350k of damage profit. So they offer rate about 33%. So that's I guess, That's strict profit. That's great. Not EBIT or anything.

Yeah. Any idea what their existing channels are? From what they state, the biggest growth opportunity would be opening additional sales channels. So right now, it looks like it's just a pure e-commerce play. So they just sell on a Shopify website. I don't have specifics to share on how they're acquiring customers, but they are stating that they see opportunities to get into Walmart, Target, CBS, and all. wholesale. Yeah, everybody sees those opportunities. Let's see you try to do it. That's fun stuff.

And they also have trademarks, patents listed on key assets as well. So I guess they have some sexual wellness toys that they've patented. I don't know which ones, but those are the details. So this is a this is a sex toy business and they list their first growth opportunities as getting sex toys into Walmart Target CBS. I mean, I don't know if you. you guys been to a Walmart Target or CVS lately, how extensive is their sex toy section? It's like the first 12 aisles, isn't it? It didn't like Target that way? You've got to admire the entrepreneur, though. He's, he's, he's, he's thinking big. He is. I admire him for asking 10x Evadda for his business as well, three million bucks on 350 a profit. That is

tid-volated, as they say. Yeah, that's one thing that I would immediately point out about this is the thing. Usually I'm seeing e-commerce. I would value this. I mean, depending on how fast they're growing, like just taking a TCM, maybe three. Yeah, I would ballpark this. This is worth a million bucks. That's what I'm saying to, yeah. And that's probably where it'll land too. So a lot of buyers might require will kind of negotiate with the founders to bring it to market value. And then a lot of founders will press high to to kind of keep away people that might, you know, might not be serious. But yeah, I would value this at one point zero, just even down times three. Andrew, how much of a feedback loop do you get on closed transactions that are listed on microacquired?

I mean, obviously people say, hey, take it down. But do you know necessarily what the composition of buyers is like, what they're paying, anything like that? That's a great question. So in terms of how I find out about deals, and this is something I'm working on addressing, but I find out through on Twitter, like, hey, I just sold my company on MicroPyre. And I'm like, okay, I'll take that listing down. So I don't see the LOI. I don't see, you know, the purchase agreement. And I think that's important. I don't, I respect the privacy of both buyers and sellers. But, you know, emails or just seeing them archive their account, but I'm building in the ability to submit an LOI so I could start really getting, you know, an idea of,

you know, how these deals are being structured. In terms of the buyers, it's an interesting group. It's everyone from corp dev at companies like HubSpot, Hootsweet, Sendozo, where's some other big ones? Durosoftware. Microsoft. No, Doro Software is what I said. That was a joke.

Yeah, we facilitated the Slack, Salesforce acquisition on Microchre. That was our biggest deal. No, just kidding. No, it's a really, It's a diverse group. Most are financial buyers. So lots of PE groups, probably lots that you guys recognize. And then I think the more surprising aspect of the buyers would be probably second time entrepreneurs. Maybe they've had some sort of liquidity event. They're looking to acquire a company. So not necessarily looking to do a roll up or portfolio play, but looking to acquire a company where they can apply their experience and not eat glass for two years trying to get something. the ground. I would say that's probably the biggest group. If I had to just section it off, I'd say 20% are strategic, 60% are financial, and then 20% are the second time entrepreneurs looking to acquire just one business rather than multiple businesses. Yeah, that's helpful.

I do think one of the interesting questions about a business like this, and it's unique in might require that it's, you know, it's a sexual wellness business. You know, how do you think about the types of buyers or limits to the types of buyers that would be out there for a business like this just based on the characteristics of that being in something that's, you know, not straight down the fairway type type business? Yeah. So with this one, I didn't know how to react when it came in. I was happy to see the founder doing so well with such an interesting business. But this one's a first in terms of the category. And I think the buyer for this business probably would need to have,

like this would go well, I think with someone in the industry, someone that has some sort of relatable product or audience or something like that. But this one's definitely a unique one. So this one's almost like a test of, you know, the appetite for these very unique types of e-commerce businesses. So how does this compare size-wise, Andrew, to things that you're seeing on the platform, like, you know, let's just call it, you know, a little over a million in revenue and 350,000 in profitability. Is that, is that kind of indicative of what's normal on the platform for e-commerce? I see a wide range. There's definitely companies on the smaller end and there's definitely companies on the bigger end. There was a company we were going to talk about, but decided to focus on these two other ones. But some are, you know, 10 million around.

revenue somewhere in five, three. Ten is probably like the highest threshold. But this is probably the best fit for microbar like one, two, three million in revenue, five hundred two million in profit, something around there. That's a perfect fit within microbarre and those ones get a lot of interest from buyers. Yeah. Tell me how it works too. I mean, just because I'm sure there'll be folks listening who don't, who aren't already subscribed. But if you're on, you can, you can look at any of this publicly available information just by going to microacquire. But then there's this kind of private information toggle. How does that work?

So if somebody's looking at this and they want more information, they need to be a subscriber or the seller needs to grant them access. Is that how it works? Yeah. So every time, if you're a premium subscriber, what that does is that allows you to actually contact the seller. And the seller then has the option to approve or deny. your request into their mini data room, which will have the company name. It'll have a buyer

presentation created by my team. We ask about like 35 different questions and we put that into a nice overview doc. And the seller is full control. So for free users, you can see all the listings, but to actually get information and communicate with the buyer, that's what microchreperium is for. Gotcha. One thing I want to add on that too is I didn't expect that to be the business model of Microquirer. It was not the idea at all. Shout out to, actually, I won't say his name, but he was my first customer and he's the founder of a company I've always admired since I was like 22. But I was hearing complaints from sellers because I would post a deal on MicroPwire and they would get legitimately like a hundred different requests from buyers. And some would be

serious. Someone would be in the middle and some are just, you know, tire kickers wasting time. And so I have this idea of what if you have to pay to see the listings. You can look at the listings, but if you actually want to, using an analogy, you can look at the Ferrari, but if you want to sit in the car, get information on the engine, figure out who the owner is, and actually have a conversation about buying the business. Yeah, you just pay a small, monthly subscription, no commissions, simple as that. But it was really to improve the buyer and seller experiences. Sellers were just getting hounded. Yeah. I think that's such an interesting model, too, Because, I mean, like we're kind of talking about maybe more traditional kind of Main Street or lower middle market businesses, typically.

Some e-commerce, some SaaS. But, you know, most people who are kind of buyers in the lower middle market or Main Street, they go to Biz Buy Sell.com. They can get really excited about the listing. And then they, you know, email a broker or they send information, you know, send a request to a broker. And it may not go anywhere, right? The broker could be busy. He could be on vacation. he could just let it fall through his inbox.

So I think it's an interesting way that you set it up because I think the way that it works now is fairly analog, right? Yeah. I mean, it's working surprisingly. We passed to the best my knowledge over 300 acquisitions, total deal volume just based on what I can tell. There's a way for founders to hide their startup and I have no way of hiding it. And I can kind of see the level of interest and the level of the number of requests.

but I'm pretty sure we're at about $100 million in total closed deal volume. So pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, this is an interesting one. It's interesting to think about who the right buyer for this would be and that you and Bill both have a pretty congruent opinion on what the valuation might be. Yeah, I'll say, I mean, I totally agree with Andrew.

This is worth a million bucks, you know, plus or minus, but certainly not three. The other thing I'll say, this is interesting about this business that is a generalizable advice to people buying, I'll call kind of potentially vice-based e-commerce businesses, is that I don't know if you're going to be able to expand this business on Amazon. I don't know what Amazon's, I don't sell sex toys, but I don't, this seems like something Amazon might have a policy about. So you may not be able to expand on Amazon. Even if you are able to expand on Amazon, you may not be able to advertise on Amazon.

You may also run into issues advertising on Facebook or Instagram because of their advertising policies. So regardless of what you personally might feel about sex toys, even if you're okay with it, some of these platforms are sometimes not. So if you're looking at buying an e-commerce business, you know, that's at all, you know, sex-related or tobacco-related, vape related, CBD-related, any of these things, you want to be really sure, A, that you're going to be able to grow the business in the ways that you expect to grow it. And then you're also taking on kind of the e-commerce version of regulatory risk that these platforms don't change their policies, which happens all the time. They suddenly decide CBD is not okay or sex toys are not okay. And boom, overnight your business is

toast. I know a friend. I have a friend. You got some of you guys may know, I won't mention his name, but he sells spy cameras. And overnight, Google changed, like hidden cameras, you know, like inside a teddy bear or a pen or something like that. And huge part of his business was driven on Google ads and sponsor products. And overnight, Google changed their policy that you couldn't do hidden cameras and his business got crushed. So when you're kind of dabbling in this kind of, I don't want to call it gray, because these things are very much legal, but these kind of vice-based businesses, you have platform

risk that you just need to be aware of. And sometimes that will impact the valuation. That's great advice. I have seen the social media account on this one, too, and it's a little risky. with that. It could be a goodbye for you, Michael. I think this one might be up for up your alley. Oh, I'm sure Mrs. Gridley would find it fascinating. Well, you know what I'll do. I'll talk about it tonight at dinner with my kids. It'll be great. Well, let's move on to deal number two. And this one's more middle of the mainstream. So reflective of the adult oriented is a small, tiny percentage of micro choir. Yeah, that one was unique.

This one's a lot more common. We generally, when I say we, I should say me, I focus predominantly on SaaS. So this next one is a B2B SaaS, Shopify and Big Commerce app with 519,000 in annual recurring revenue. They're stating 464% revenue growth in 2020. Competitors, Spocket, Oberlo, Motelist. And they're available on Shopify and Big Commerce. And this is a premium domain as well, I would say. And essentially what they do is they help e-commerce stores adapt,

add additional products to their store that they can drop ship to customers. Basically, this is like an Alibaba to Shopify Bridge. Essentially, you plug this into the feeds of various dropshippers, and you lets you list their product on your store, kind of snap your fingers, boom, you just added a thousand skews. Exactly. And you try to out SEO, optimize everybody. Yeah.

My questions with this business is they're not showing any profit. So I assume they're running at break even and they're kind of pushing it for growth. You know, this is one of those situations where, you know, it depends on what you're going to do with the business. They're asking price is $1.6 million with, but just rounded to $520,000 in annual recurring revenue, founded in 2018. I don't know how I would value this business. I would need to dig into the P&L and see if there's opportunities to make this a profit

or what amount of the current revenue could be used to either reinvest in the business to grow it or how fast is this thing growing? Is this thing going to grow another 400% next year? Those are probably my biggest questions on this one. Is it a subscription model or do they do a subscription plus they get a cut on whatever sold through their marketplace? How does that work? It looks to be pure SaaS. So for as far as I can tell, it's yeah, just basic monthly subscriptions.

And they have tiered pricing based on the number of products that you add onto either your Shopify store or your big commerce store. It looks like that's how Spockett does theirs, too. The one they list is the number of what competitor. For the middle of the road package there is $49 a month for 250 products and 25 premium products. And they throw in chat support for free. Nice guys. And Chad. Can you guys comment on, I mean, this is a relatively new business, right?

A Shopify app or a big commerce app. And to me, from the outside looking in, there are a million of them. and I don't necessarily know how to differentiate them. But can you kind of talk about maybe some of you that know more this relatively new phenomenon? So I want to clarify with this. It's not a Shopify app within. So it could be just connected to the Shopify API. But kind of either way, like your customers,

your only customers can be someone who have a Shopify or big commerce store. Exactly. What I think is interesting about this one, though, is that they have big commerce. So they have at least diversified off of the Shopify ecosystem. not to say that if I were to pick one ecosystem, the Shopify ecosystem is where I'd want to be. If I was building the eCAP, building apps for e-commerce sellers,

that's a big, big ecosystem. But I think I like that they've already expanded beyond it. Well, this Spocket as a competitor has, well, they claim nine integrations, but looking at that one, is Shopify, Wix, WooCommerce, Big Commerce, Alibaba, theoretically, and Squarespace. Those are the ones I recognize as storefront type apps.

I think this one, whoever acquires this one, I think the opportunity here is clearly to grow the business. How could you achieve another 100, 200% of additional growth over the next year? Is that even possible? So if I was looking at this business, I would first start by deep understanding how are you currently acquiring customers? Are there any clear areas that can be optimized? Simple things that I see a lot of founders missing on is just building out like a revenue model. like how much traffic is coming, how much of that is converting into free trials,

what your free trial to pay conversion rate, you know, really understanding kind of like what growth levers you can pull on and then narrowing in on low-hanging fruit. I mean, that's how I would, how would you guys value this business? I got to look at Michael for this one. I don't think I'd buy this business. But I didn't say buy it. I said, how would you value? How would I value it?

I mean, I think the one thing I would want to double click on before I value anything is this seems like the type of marketplace play that if I was Toby running Shopify, this is precisely an economies of scale thing that I would expect to build into my platform. I want to have those network effects amongst all the stores and have people listing stuff on there

to compete with Amazon and provide that breadth. So I'm actually, that's the thing I'm scared about is three years from now this not being a real business. My counter to that, though, is what if you bought this business with the goal of potentially, you know, maybe you had it in at big commerce, you know,

you know, one of the co-founders or something like that, you're able to grow the business. And this becomes a strategic acquisition after building it out a little bit more. I don't know if that's a crazy risk to take, probably, but that's what I would personally do. If I was going to acquire this one, I would focus on growing the heck out of it. And then, because I agree with you, Michael. I think this is a key feature to add into Shopify and a big commerce. and then getting on their radar and, you know, built, like, deepen the relationship and the partnership and trying to become like the premier drop shipping add-on. And then maybe one day they

come knocking and acquire the business for hopefully a larger amount than you pay for it. Yeah. Well, here's a data point for you. I'm on the Spockett website. That was the number one competitor they listed. They said they have 60,000 customers on there. And it looks like their middle of the road plan is $49 a month. So that puts these other guys at theoretically, 30 million ARR plus or minus, depending upon what you think the numbers are. So I see little businesses like this often where it's like in the Shopify ecosystem or a SaaS thing where they have 0.001 and there's a reason it's because their product is way behind, you know, and it's just not good comparatively. So that's the other point point I would dig into.

you know, if Toby can afford to buy Spockett or Big Commerce can afford to buy Spockett, you know, given their market cap at this point, why would they mess around with this thing? So anyway. Yeah, I also got to say this is a space I'm semi-familiar with. Oberlo is huge as well. I mean, there are a number of really big players that have been around for a really long time in this kind of drop-ship enablement marketplace, that thing. And you'd have a hard time overtaking them.

I mean, these guys have raised money. like they're installed. You can see this is sticky as hell. If all your products are coming through it, it's hard to rip it out and put in a new one. And also I generally, unless I like drink beers with Toby and knows he wants to buy this thing

and like I'm sure that Shopify Corp Dev wants this, I really hate the thesis of I'm going to buy this because I think this business should, is not a good standalone business. It should be part of Shopify. and so it's a binary outcome, either it's a shit business or I sell to Shopify for a lottery ticket. If you want to gamble like that, go buy a lottery ticket or trade options in the stock market or whatever. Well, and it doesn't cash flow, right? So if it cash flowed, you could warehouse it and go, hey,

worst case scenario, I pay a fair multiple. I earn my money back in three years. And then if the lottery ticket does hit, then great. But if not, then I've at least covered my alley. Exactly. And that's totally fine. But what I hate about, I just want to talk about the specific mindset of this thing doesn't make money. I don't actually want to own it. But I think maybe I could flip it to, you know, because I think I have the end to Shopify's CorpDev. You know, it's very easy to trick yourself into thinking that, yeah, the guys of Shopify have not, they're certainly not talking to Oberlo and Sprocket every single quarter and trying to

decide, you know, like the guys, the CorpDev guys, like, they've thought about this. You know, you're not the first person to think that this was. would be a good feature for Shopify. So, like, I just, I see people plunk down a lot of money and get really disappointed because you know what happens when you call Shopify? They go, that's great. Yeah, like maybe you get a little bigger and, like, let us know. And it's the same thing like a VC.

They just totally wish you wash you, but you've got several million dollars and that's this business. It's just you should buy businesses you want to own. Well, I think, I think that creates a good question, right? Like, what is a SaaS business that's worth owning? Well, there's a ton of them. And I, I agree with Bill's point. obviously strategic acquires or you know those acquisitions are much harder to get done and those

relationships are going to take years to foster so i agree with you there bill um in terms of SaaS companies worth acquiring i mean i i always tell people to go after things that they have domain knowledge in so this would be great for someone maybe with a portfolio of e-commerce companies i'm just i'm throwing out ideas um not maybe you have a portfolio of Shopify apps and this is a way to cross sell across different companies that you own. If you had an established Shopify ecosystem app and you had a bunch of established customers and you wanted to sell this to them, that sounds good too. Yeah, this isn't a bad business.

I mean, there's a million reasons you know, with you learn more and especially, you know, again, I feel like the theme of this podcast is buyer business fit. Like if you're the right buyer for this, there's a zillion reasons down this. I'm not trying to say that you wouldn't want to own this business. I'm just saying you shouldn't buy this business expecting to sell the shop. That's all I'm saying. What if I had already bought a sexually oriented supply business off of microquire and I could merge it with this?

Synergy. Synergy, Bill. Drop ship sex toys. Oh, yeah. Then you can crank them out. You can add that to every store. Yeah, this one, I think my biggest question is, you know, how much how much revenue is available to reinvest into growth and then where is the growth coming from

you know because they're stating you know 464% revenue growth in 2020 which means a 4x the business in one year so i know the other competitors are bigger but they're not this isn't a flat business so you know what is causing that growth is there ways to accelerate that growth is there thing is there costs that can be reduced if you purchase this business to reallocate expenses towards growth to continue that growth those are my big questions and then yeah what's toby's email so i can you know try to try to plug that in i got i got eddie's email from big commerce so i could hit him up but but i think it's exactly right like you got to double click on this one to really understand the dynamics of the business to

understand why it would be worth three times revenue. If it's growing four times a year, 400% a year and it's going to grow 400% a year going forward, it's definitely worth three times AOR. Now, is it going to grow four times this year? I don't know. That's what you, that's the bet. Yeah, I think it's important. Also, I think it's important to note that the buyer universe, if you're the seller here, the buyer universe for this is very different than the buyer universe for the e-commerce business, the sexual wellness one. In that, although I'm, now I've got ahead of myself because I don't think the SBA would approve the sexual wellness one. But like, you can't, the point is you can't buy this, this four-xing SaaS business with no profit with an SBA loan.

Right. Like, you're, you're probably coming, like, you've got to have cash. You're going to pay full cash for this. And it's really a growth story where, and that's a very different type of buyer than the person who wants to use an SBA loan, you know, pay three to four X for an, you know, commerce business that they expect to grow 20, 25% a year and still do very well. So you as a seller here, I think you've got to understand who you're dealing with. It's probably a smaller buyer universe who has one and a half million dollars straight cash. They want to drop on this thing and then get involved. Yeah, this is in what I refer to as kind of the dead zone for SaaS buyers, like the one to two million range. So the problem is above a million, it's really expensive. Like,

It's hard. Your number of individuals who want to buy a business of that size at that level of EV is relatively small, who can afford it as individuals. And the guys that are institutional buyers, unless they're doing a strategic purchase, the financial buyers don't want to buy something that small because at two, two and a half million is where you can start to run in like a real business. This is a great way to buy yourself a job. And the institutional and financial buyers don't want to do that. So it's a dead zone where it's hard to transact. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think this one, this would be a good fit for someone with probably e-commerce experience looking to buy, you know, their first company and they see, you know, some sort of, they have some sort of unfair advantage in the market. That's who I could see purchasing this company. I agree with you, Michael. Well, super good. Andrew, you're fantastic. I do have a couple questions. I think that a lot of our folks that listen to the podcast are potential, you know, they're novice acquires.

They want to buy a business either now or in the future. You know, is there any advice you can give to folks that would be potentially coming to micro-acquire or are out in the market looking to buy, whether it's a software business or an e-commerce business, based on the things that you've seen people doing? What things could you share with them to make their life better? Yeah, I would say the one thing I always say, and you guys might disagree with this, but I think relationships are really important. So if you're looking to buy business, I always say schedule calls.

get to know the founder, understand, you know, get to know them personally and professionally, understand why they're looking to sell. Because when you buy a business like this, you're going to, there's going to be things, you know,

post transaction that you want to have a good relationship with the previous owner where you can rely on them to, you know, answer a question. So I'd say that's number one. Number two, following people like you on Twitter, Mike McGuire also has a community with, 1,200 members where people share, how do I value this thing?

How would you structure this deal? I'm going through due diligence and I saw this. What should I do? This company is based in Canada, but I want to acquire from, you know, or I'm based in Canada, but I want to acquire American company. So there's a community of SaaS buyers that people can join if they're just starting out and they just want to learn. And you can post question, you'll get 10 different responses.

but I'd say, you know, follow Michael, follow Bill, listen to this podcast. I think you guys are doing something great. Yeah, super cool. Well, Mills is smart too, despite the beard. He's trustworthy. I don't know anything about this stuff. So I'm learning. Thanks coming on, Andrew.

Super cool. Well, thanks for being with us today. Mills, Bill, Andrew, anything else? Otherwise, I think it's a great, great opportunity to wrap it up for this episode, which turned out really well. Nope, that's great. Thank you, Andrew. Yeah, thanks for having me on you guys.

You really appreciate it. it. Cool. I will click stop and I will see you next week.