Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - A $600k EBITDA DEI Business: Great Potential, Tough Acquisition? - Acquisitions Anonymous 304

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

In this episode, Michael, Heather, and Mills dive into the details of a fascinating DEI business making a $600k EBITDA. We explore the potential and challenges of acquiring this unique business, offering insights into its high value and the intricacies of managing a niche publication. Check out the listing hereThanks to this week's sponsor:CloudBookkeeping offers adaptable solutions to businesses that want to focus on growth with a “client service first” approach. They offer a full suite of accounting services, including sophisticated reporting, QuickBooks software solutions, and full-service payroll options.Learn how to buy a business.If you are interested in buying a business but unsure how to start, you should check Michael's Buy a Business Course:You will learn:• Build a thesis for the type of business that's right for you‍• Learn how to stand out in a sea of buyers• Create a working, scalable Deal Engine getting you leads• Maximize your chances of finding great dealsSubscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

This has to be owned by an African-American woman. I like that idea, Michael. I think you're right. I mean, that is probably the most palatable scenario, you know, of this getting acquired in a traditional arms length. I wonder why they're selling, you know, because it's probably not a whole lot of work, I would imagine. This week's episode is a doozy.

Michael Girdley here, Mills, myself, and Heather went through a deal that was one of the best businesses we've ever looked at. It is also probably one of the hardest businesses to buy. It is in the DEI space and it's just an amazing business. But I thought we did a great job digging into this one. If you want to see what an amazing business can look like when you own a niche, this is the episode for you. And I hope you like the episode as much as we enjoyed making it.

Here it is. All right, taking a quick pause here, I have something to tell you. This is Michael. I hate bookkeeping. I hate bookkeeping. I hate doing HR. I hate doing all that kind of stuff. But for bookkeeping, I have found a solution.

It is my friend Charlie's business called Cloud Bookkeeping. So that's cloudbookkeeping.com. They are your perfect partner if you want to get bookkeeping out of your hair and focus on making your company your customers happier and more successful. So please give them a call, call Charlie, cloudbookkeeping.com, tell them we sent you. They're a great way. If you're a business buyer, if you're a business owner, you're tired of hassling with getting your bookkeeping done.

He's got a whole fleet of people that are well trained and work for him. He's located here in St. Antonio, so I can tell you because of that, he's awesome. And they're a great partner for you to potentially call to help with all your bookkeeping needs so you can do the important stuff in your business rather than worry about getting your books right. So give Charlie a call, cloudbookkeeping.com, and now back to the episode. How's everybody doing? Oh, boy. We got a special one today. We do.

So we did get some complaints about the new intro music that we have. So I don't know if you guys saw that, but somebody emailed me. They're like, your new intro music makes me want to bomb it. I was like, oh, that's a definitive rating. So we'll see if we end up changing it. But at least they were thinking about us. Yeah, it's kind of like the madman thing where the guy's like, I feel sorry for you. And the other guy goes, I don't think about you at all.

It's like, oh, if you're thinking about us, we're very thinking about it. Heather, how are you? Anything exciting happening this week? Any deals? You know, it has been an exciting week. We're getting closer to quarter end. And for some reason, loans seem to only close at quarter end. Why is that? You know, it is a lot of reasons. I think everybody just finally gets serious towards the end of a quarter. You know, they always think they have more time. It's not just the banks. It's the sellers. It's the attorneys. It's kind of everybody. It's just collectively everybody. sort of gets their act together when they realize, uh-oh, the deadline's coming. So loans tend to not close much in the middle of the quarter or even the beginning. The beginning is only the leftovers. It didn't make it. And the middle is nothing. And then everything hits at the end of the quarter. So if you're trying to close a loan, try to close it before the end of the quarter because, you know, there's always a rush and things get delayed or, you know, messed up if you're in that rush. but it's that time of the quarter is coming.

Is this the same for Main Street-style non-SBA loans? Or do you think it's just that way for SBA? I would say it's probably mainly SBA because the banks, you know, are concerned about their quarterly production a little bit more so. Probably Main Street closes when they close, I would guess. It's a little more of less of a production when it's Main Street, you know, non-SBA. When it's SBA, it's kind of like a fact. We've got to get the product out.

Yeah. I mean, obviously, I'm a big consumer of Main Street loans. But our banks never seem to be in much for a hurry. No. You know, like, I mean, when things are good, they're never in much of a hurry. When things are bad, they're never in much for a hurry. And maybe that's just the nature of kind of lending as the quantums get bigger, right? The loan sizes get bigger.

It's just more stable. Yeah. It's interesting, too, how things ebb and, flow in terms of what banks want to prioritize. Like banks right now, at least the sentiment I'm hearing is very skittish on originations, but give us all your deposits. Yeah, that's definitely a huge trend ever since Silicon Valley Bank failure. All the deposit flows for smaller and regional banks are less stable than they ever were before.

So, yeah, absolutely their priorities are around deposits these days. So if you want a line of credit or you want something out of the bank and you're willing to move your deposit relationship, it's actually a good bargaining tool to use because banks are hungry for the deposits. And they probably will be for the foreseeable future. One of the companies I'm on the board of us, maybe like a year ago, we were exploring refinancing options. And we're like, okay, we'd like a very large loan, please. And the people are like, sure, yeah, that sounds good. We're just going to want you to deposit the exact same amount of money into the bank that you're going to borrow. No, it's like, well, wait, why we pay interest on money that we already have? Like,

makes no sense whatsoever. That is funny. Yeah, there's, that ratio is important now. We just got 100% financing on some heavy equipment

and it was like one document, e-sign, no personal guarantee. Like very, I mean, is existing relationship, right?

We have our deposits with them and we have plenty of coverage. But it was surprisingly easy. And I was like, what's the am? And they were like, what do you want? Three, five, seven.

What's the rate? What do you want? And it was one, one document. And we're buying multiple pieces of equipment. And they were like, we'll just wrap it all into one. Just send us to purchase order and we'll ACH them. Like, incredibly easy. Well, it sounds like equipment leasing. I don't know if that's exactly what part of the bank you were working with.

But equipment leasing is like the opposite of everything else we're used to with the SBA loans or Main Street loans. It is super easy. And it depends. You know, the leasing companies all have kind of an affinity for certain industries. or certain types of equipment. But when you find the right fit, it is super easy. Speaking of super easy. Speaking of super easy, I was going to segue us to our deal

because I found a deal that is going to be super easy for us to get ourselves in trouble and have to issue an apology after we talk about this way. You already have me in trouble, Michael, on the Florida comment. Someone sent me an email this morning because you asked me if California was better than Florida and, you know, they had their two.

sense on that. Sorry. Yeah, it's okay. I mean, Florida, I like Florida. I mean, it's no South Carolina, but it's good. I'm not against it. Hey, I was in Florida last week and I was very glad to come home to South Carolina. There you go.

All right. So let me tell you guys about this DEI publishing company that's for sale. So it is from Synergy Business Brokers. It is a successful publishing company for sale, $2.6 million asking price, annual revenue is $760,000. Net cash flow is $740,000. So anyway, are we reading this right? Yeah, so just for you reading at home, this is a 98% net cash flow business. The industry is in services and publishing and it's located in Pennsylvania. The company has been a niche published for more than 10 years that serves a valuable role in promoting diversity and inclusion within

higher education. It specializes in online publications that provide data and insight, and address the experience of underrepresented groups in academia, particularly black Americans and women. Publications, The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, the JBAHE established for over 30 years. The JBAHE tracks the progress of African Americans in American higher education. It highlights achievements in areas like scholarships,

faculty positions, and leadership roles. Women in Academia report, the WIA, founded in 2011, the WIA report focuses on the status and experiences of women in higher education. It celebrates progress towards gender equity and explores ongoing challenges. Additional services. The company's website offers job boards and weekly newsletters targeted at colleges and universities seeking to attract diverse faculty and staff.

This caters to both the institutions and the underrepresented groups the company advocates for. And that's all we have. So again, price $2.6 million, annual revenue, $760,000. Net cash flow is $740,000, and is listed by Aaron Kokula. who is 609 area code and represents synergy business brokers. Okay, do we understand what this does? I think so. Heather, they don't mention that it's SBA prequalified,

and that is perplexing to me. That's what threw me right away. Well, and I want to know where the $20,000 and expenses is going. How could they possibly spend $20,000? Yeah. So I guess it seems like this business, they, it's online only so they don't have any, you know, physical publishing costs for like paper magazines. But they, they distribute journals. I'd be curious.

Like, is this a quarterly publication? There is something about businesses like this that I do like, which is we will aggregate the information. And then we will give it to you for free and we will most likely sell sponsorships. to the publication because there's a lot of people who want, you know, the eyeballs of our readers. I'm curious if that's what they're doing. Well, I pulled up the JBAHE here, the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, and it is a lot of, oh, it's super interesting. This is not, this mostly, this feels to me like the San Antonio Business Journal.

Like everybody has the business journal in their town. Is there an Orange County Business Journal? Yes, there is. Yes. Yeah. Do you have a business journal on your town? Mills or is it too small? I was going to make a joke, but yes, we do have one. But it's kind of like this. It's lots of, I pulled it up here. It's lots of announcements of appointments like here,

Daphne LeMont, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly, promoted to provost of Smith College in Massachusetts, and they have Daphne's stuff here, and it's covered here. And then they have other stuff here that they talk about. Five black scholars received dean appointments, et cetera, et cetera. Alder University selects Lisa Coleman as their president and has a very nice write-up on her as well. All right. So it does have that business journal feel and it's sort of catering to two particular communities. And it does look like we have ads here, right? I think you scrolled through a few of them already.

So I think Mills is right. It's probably that they do the work for free and the revenue is generated from ads. although the teaser didn't really tell us what the revenue was coming from, did it? Correct. Well, the other thing this may be is they have, their kind of very prominent thing here at the top of their website is find a job and post a job. Yep. It is interesting that this has a bunch of, it's basically, it looks like a job board with a bunch of announcements. That's actually, when you think about it from a customer acquisition,

standpoint, if you're a job board, what is what is a great way to, you know, get distribution and niche down? It's to become the information epicenter of a very specific niche. And it seems like there is a justice, you know, kind of component to what they do to, which is, you know, hey, we want to track. Like, one of the things that I saw at the very bottom was like racial incidents at college campuses, you know, things like that. But it probably makes them the de facto place for HBCUs, historically black colleges and universities, to go to post and find candidates. The job board appears to be automated. I pulled it up here. You can pay $299 to $499, so $300 to $500 for a job posting for 60 or 90 days. And you can do packages.

And then they also try to get you to promote it for women in academia, which I guess we can go check. that as well you can pay an extra 150 and promote there. There is probably there is probably a situation where they're not only making money from this job board, this this probably is making money from all the things that a typical business journal makes money from. So like have you guys looked into how business journals make money? No. Oh, would you like for me to lecture you about it? It's fascinating. Okay. By the way, as a a segue, I'll give you another lecture. We were up this week taking my son to get evaluated at a health care program for his health stuff in Kansas City. And I'm like, everybody get in the car.

We're going to go see the coolest thing in this whole town. And like we get out of the Uber and it's like we're at the Kansas City Fed. So you can go in and have like a museum of money at the Kansas City Fed. You guys should totally go check it out. Your kids were probably thrilled with that. Yeah. So anyway, long story short, my 18 year old is super excited to go to college in Arizona as far away from me as possible because he's sick of all these economic lectures. But anyway, so it happens all the time. So most people think that like a business journal, like those businesses make their money like a classical advertiser and subscription type thing. Those keep the lights on, but really how they make money is all the stuff

that they do around being the chronicle of business in a particular town. So they have all kinds of like awards, dinners, events. Like, if you're going to be a publisher of a business journal, you better love to go to gala's and, like, buff and, and banquets because you're going to one three or four times a week, because they're having one for everything. Like, excellent CEO of the year, women and business of the year, like all those things.

And then people buy tables for $5,000 or $10,000, and it cost you $1,000 to put on the event per table. Like, that's where the money gets made, right? You're an event company, and your promo is just running the newspaper and reporting around that kind of. of stuff. And then they will also do things where they like sell the data, they sell you lists. Like there's all this kind of stuff that they sell to their customer base. The advertising is just

the cack or the newspaper is just the cack. The business is all the stuff on the back end. And so a lot of those lists too are like pay to play. You know, like do you want to be on the top 40 under 40? That will only cost you $3,000. Which by the way, my buddy is a surgeon here in San Antonio and the list of the 480 best surgeons in San Antonio came out and he wasn't on it because he didn't pay. So for years, we've been referring to him as the 481st best doctor in San Antonio. And he doesn't think it's that funny. Yeah, it's funny. The other thing that they'll do a lot of times, which it doesn't look like this website

is doing is, you know, pay to write an article and be kind of an expert. Right. And, you know, the publishing kind of professionalism and, you know, authority that that can convey. We get pitched that kind of stuff a lot. But this, I'd be very curious. Like, I'm wondering if 80% of their revenue is the job board. Yeah, I don't see events, but maybe that's a growth area. Broker didn't tell us that, but that could be a growth area.

And I hear what you're saying. That's really interesting, Michael, because I have seen some businesses like this. Now that you say that, I've seen a business that was like trade publications for very specific trades. They didn't make any money on that. They made all their money on conferences that were, you know, sprouted out from the publications and the lists. It was all about getting in front of that audience. So I do think this is an interesting business from that perspective. But these are two very, very narrow niches as far as the audience because it's women and blacks in higher education.

And it sounds like it like if you. want a job in academia, this is where you go if you're a woman or you're black. So super narrow, I don't know if they could expand the audience. You know, there could be another channel that they could grow into or maybe not just higher education type jobs. But it would seem to me like there's a lot of opportunity for growth in something like this. Yeah, or to do it in to expand horizontally into other niches, right?

I don't know if there's an equivalent for, you know, different religions, you know, different immigrant groups. Like I think there's all kinds of opportunity around that. Can I ask the dumb question? I mean, this is the dumb question. Like, do you need to be African-American to own this business? Like, can you do this business without at least part of the ownership representing this group of people, right? This, the sigma of the population? Or I guess another question is, like, should this be African-American-owned?

Right. Maybe this is where I was like, are we going to get careful? Yeah, here you go. I know. Now we're in trouble. There's the woman side too. So I think you could be either or, but I do think it would be a little strange for a white man, for example, or an Asian man to own this business. If you don't have any personal experience with the audience and can't really connect in that way, I think it would be tough, which is weird.

You know, yeah, that's weird because we're saying kind of you have to be a. certain race or gender to own this business, maybe. Somebody for the Women in Academia Report calls up and it's like, I'd like to speak to the publisher and you're like, hello, this is Jim. Yeah. Jim Bob. It does make me think about, you know, this, I think probably 20 years ago when it started,

I think they said they've been around for, you know, the women one has been around for almost 15 years. But they probably were not under the banner of. of diversity, equity, inclusion, DEI. Like, that's a more recent term. Yeah. So I'm thinking this probably in a lot of ways was a kind of a passion project for somebody. I think I'm wondering, how does the news curation part of this work?

Because based on their cogs and their expense structure, I think this is a person who is doing this, not a team of people. And so I think you've got to really, you know, be plugged in to, you know, the just, the feed of data and information. And then it seems like they're self-publishing a lot of this. You would have to be ready to immerse yourself. And I mean, obviously, there's plenty of margin. You could pay, you know, you could afford to add some cost structure to this. But I think you've got to like want to really be immersed in this to keep the content

structure that they have. And it's probably a seller that wants a buyer like that. You know, that if it is a passion project, that's, other thing is even if you had, you know, sort of an idea about how you'd come in and you'd hire the right writers and expand to other audiences. So it doesn't matter whether you're woman or African American. I don't think this seller would sell to you if they don't feel like you would also be passionate about the content. And so that's something we see a lot in small business. And that's where the opportunity can sometimes be. If you have the idea that to do this right,

and this is a great one-person business, like amazing one-person business. If you have the idea to do this right, you need to be in touch and connected and live the life of these two groups. So I think we could do the math then, based on that assumption, this has to be owned by an African-American woman, right?

Because she has a woman publication and an African-American in academia publication with a background in academia. Like that's what it, you know, based on that pieces, that's what we got to know about this, probably at this point. Yep. I would have to go.

I think this is a great niche. I mean, this is very defensible. Could somebody recreate, let's say the majority of their revenue is job boards and advertising. Could somebody recreate this and compete some of this margin away? Yes. Would it take a incredibly long time or a lot of expense to go acquire, you know, the distribution and the kind of installed base? I mean, their email lists have.

to be a lot of the kind of core of value here. But I think this is a very defensible business in part, too, because it's so small that nobody is going to come chase you down, you know, and really go after you. I just kind of imagine the person that started this business is probably somebody from academia, you know, like got passionate about it and then looked up and they're like, I'm making eight times what I was making up my job in the provost office. doing this. And it looks like their mailing address is in the Poconos.

Is Bartonsville, Pennsylvania next to the Monroe Career and Technical Institute, which is up in the Poconos towards, oh, Scranton. Yeah, it's between Allentown. This is where I went to college. I went to college east of Allentown right here. Spenthal. Spenthal a lot of time in rural, rural Pennsylvania. But yeah.

Learn something. Knew about you every day, Michael. You should have started a newsletter, obviously. I should have started a lot of stuff. I should have stopped a lot of stuff. Yeah, so this is owned by somebody who's just out in the Rurals near Mount Pocono. I wonder why they're selling, you know, because it's probably not a whole lot of work, I would imagine, you know, at this point for this, for this owner. Are they retiring?

Are they going back to academia? I'd be curious. You know, it started 10 plus years ago. they've probably been making more money than they possibly need. They live near the Camelback ski resort. Basically, this is the Poconos. It's, you know, I once kind of whatever. I'm trying to say something.

I'm trying not to Corpus Christi this. I'm trying to say to something nice about the Poconos, but it's a resort area. It's just not a fancy resort area. But they live in a resort area. Yeah, maybe they're at a stage in life where they started this when they were 55, and they're 65, and they're just tired of writing it every day and want to have fun in the Poconos.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a good business for the right person. And you know what? Maybe we figured out why it's not SBA pre-qualified because you can't discriminate on, you know, who's the borrower in federal lending. But I think, you know, in all practical sense, the buyer should be the right kind of person to write this newsletter and carry it forward. It's also kind of shocking to me.

Like, we didn't sign the NDA. I just want to, you know, put that out there. Right. The listing says the names of these publications. This is kind of like that marina or whatever, whatever one we got in trouble with in Alaska where people were like, no, we're actually not for sale. Like, they just put this out here on the listing. Like, this is not, we're not disclosing anything we signed an NDA about.

Well, it's nearly, let's talk about the other elephant in the room, why it's probably still available. Because we found this listing, I pulled this out of a group of listings. We found like a couple months ago, and I just clicked on it this morning. It was available still. So there may be another reason it has. isn't sold besides the really limitation on the types of buyers who could make this work, the price is not cheap, right? You're buying yourself a job and you're paying just shy of four

times cash flow. And this is not, this is SDE, right? This isn't actually profits because this person, if they're only, if their expenses are 20,000, then it's pretty clearly them doing all the work by themselves out of their house. And that's basically hosting fees. If hosting and credit card fees. That's the whole thing. And so you put all that together, you know, SDE is 740. EBDA, if you back in and look at what the seller should be paying themselves to run this thing, you know, let's say they should be paying them $150,000 a year to do all the stuff they're doing, maybe more. If you were to hire a good person for it, you're at a, you're at a, what is that, 600,000, you're at four and a half times for buying yourself a job. It gets, it's pricey.

I think there is probably a scenario where this person can transition this business to somebody who can share risk and reward with them. I mean, it's a perfect scenario for like an understudy, you know, to come in and have some creative financing, some creative structure, take some of this off of the owner's plate in terms of the day to day and they can, you know, receive a long-term benefit for what they've built. and then the other person can bring some, you know, risk and reward sharing to the table and some sweat equity. I think it is transferable, but it is not transferable at a typical arm's length kind of transaction. So let me pitch you on this. First of all, this is a great freaking business. This is one of the best businesses we've ever looked at. And I'm considering worm farm, pizza boat, that roofing company we looked at in South Carolina Mills, huh?

Look. Got it. The SBA loan brokerage business, like, this is a great business. This is the top 1% business we are looked at. Like, what if you put together, you come after this and you put together a diverse ownership group? And your plan is to come in and not just focus on women in academia, but also African-Americans in academia. But then also say, like, we're going to do the same thing in other groups, right? Like, you can imagine, you know, Muslims, for example, or.

Or Latina population. population, all kinds of different, different, you know, are super seniors, like all kinds of stuff that are Quebec-wa in America. Like, you could just kind of do the whole thing and start to branch it out into, you know, you come in with a diverse group, but you're playing with this business is to diversify it beyond just women and African-Americans. Like, I think that works, right? Because, like, suddenly you're not just, you have a diverse team owning and a diverse team

running a business for diversity. Now, the question there. is just like, okay, can you, is there really opportunity in these other niches? And I'm not sure. And events, I would say there's probably opportunity for events or even awards. Same, that stuff you talked about earlier. I do like all of that. I think it has a tremendous potential.

Yes, but you have to have the right buying group and structure. And then do you pay four and a half times because you believe so strongly in those growth levers? Maybe. Maybe you pay four. Yeah, you could go and, you know, kind of piggyback some of the major conferences like the HBCU conferences and piggyback those or kind of co-sponsor something with them and get access to a lot of your audience and probably

similar things right for other segments other you know whether it's by race or religion or you know ethnic group any of those things I think you really could grow this substantially it would be hard to pay up for the growth potential which I think is kind of what they're asking you to do Yeah. Yeah, it's, well, I like that idea, Michael. I think you're right. I mean, that is probably the most palatable scenario, you know, of, of this getting acquired in a traditional arm's length. Yeah. Just reflecting on our conversation here, and I think we've all done a great job of like approaching this conversation in a, you know, I think in a very upstanding and compassionate way, right, and thinking about navigating, talking about race. and religious issues the right way and gender issues the right way. But it reminds me of like, you know, I'm spending a lot of time in foreign countries. I have like instructors who are like culturally from Venezuela and Spain and France and all these places that are teaching me Spanish

and spending time with them. And they are universally amazed at how much brain power and energy we put into in America having to navigate what we just did. Right. And make sure like, okay, whatever the rules, what are they changing? What can you say? What can you not say? And anyway, this whole discussion, which I think we did a great job of, just reminded me how much, like, the evolution of how kind of thinking in our culture is these days, like, it creates this, like, amount of time and brain power. We have to devote to making sure we navigate stuff the right way. So anyway, I'm not judgmental, but. Yeah, there's attention there always. That's a good point.

And I would, we didn't say it, but I will say it now. You know, DEI has become sort of under attack, you know, it's the word, the word. the terminology and the thought process as to whether it's reverse discrimination, if you use it in hiring and whatnot. So I think there's a little bit of a risk, you know, how you brand what this is. I think they can still do what they do and it still has the impact. But if I were a buyer, I might think about the terminology that I use, whether DEI is the right brand that I want to go forward with because of the, you know, some of the negative connotation that has taken on. I do love speaking of that and how they're, this is, this is a positive showcase of the progress and achievements of people in women or African Americans in academia. Like I like when I look at this site, I love that aspect of it.

Like I'm like, okay, I want to be part of that. Like let's, let's highlight the good things. There's not the level of like, you know, it's, we're not out here doing battle, right? Like I'm trying to have a mission to change the world other than like, let's, highlight good things happening. And I don't know. It's hard to not get behind that. Right. Yeah. They've taken a positive approach. Yeah. As, you know, this is the culmination of a lot of uphill work that these folks have done, right, to be named the provost. Like, there's 30, 40 years worth of professional history, you know, behind that person and what they've done.

Man, this is cool business. I love that it's a good problem. Like, this is a really hard problem to put your head around in terms of like, okay, how could you make something like this work? But ultimately, like, price matters. Like, this business is just too expensive. Like, it's going to be hard to make money for a mere mortal with something price this, this thing. When it's a when basically it's a one-person show, right, at this point. You're not buying a business.

You're buying somebody's job and four times earnings and four and a half times SDE or whatever four-and-half times I've got. Just so pricey. If they can get it, more power. to them, but there's probably, it explains to me why it hasn't sold. Yeah. Yeah, maybe someone needs to make an offer in the threes and see if they take it. Yeah.

All right. Well, good news for us. I think for this episode, we don't have to issue a formal apology. Unless we did that thing where we said something that we're later going to be embarrassed about what we don't know about it, but I think we all did a good job. I'm getting DEI and business ownership. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good job, everybody.

So, cool. Anything else you guys want to add? Otherwise, I think we can wrap it up. Good. All right. Congratulations, Mills. Your camera did not screw up this time and your audio did not screw up this time. I believe to you.

I always believed you know. I don't care what Bill said. It's kind of infuriating that it was the computer the whole time. Oh, really? It was. I mean, I think so. I do have a new mic and I do have a new camera. The camera isn't even set up yet, but it was the computer the whole time.

Interesting. Awesome. All right. I'm up during my setup, so here we go. If you guys enjoyed this, if you liked Mills camera, do us a favor. Go on social media and tell your friends about this podcast and that it's helping you think better about business. And hopefully it's entertaining and at least watching us try to walk on the tightrope of

not getting canceled this week. Hopefully it was entertaining. And tell us our friends about it. And the ask this week is post something on social media and tell some other people about We continue to try to grow our impact, and the best way we can do that is word and mouth and you guys tell your friends. So thank you so much. We'll see you next week.