Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - A legal tech business doing $7mm a year - Acquisitions Anonymous episode 166

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

Michael Girdley (@Girdley) and Mills Snell (@thegeneralmills) talk about a Legal Technology Provider. What makes this a great teaser? We dig into this deal to find the catch; why are we the lucky buyers? Is there a case for a strategic? Could you aim to build rather than buy it?Company:                 Legal Technology Provider Opportunity ReviewLocation:                   United StatesStated Financials:     2022 Sales  $ 7mm   |   2022 Adjusted EBITDA   $2.4mmAsking Price:          Contact the broker-----Thanks to our sponsors!CloudBookkeeping offers adaptable solutions to businesses that want to focus on growth with a “client service first” approach. They offer a full suite of accounting services, including sophisticated reporting, QuickBooks software solutions, and full-service payroll options.-----Show Notes:(00:00) - Introduction(00:49) - Our Sponsor is CloudBookKeeping.com(04:23) - Deal & financials: Legal Technology Provider(08:17) - What do we like?(09:37) - If EBITDA is BS earnings, what is adjusted EBITDA?(11:52) - What is the catch with this recurring income?(14:43) - Is there a strategic buyer for this business?(15:09) - What is @girdley’s pain-in-the-a** factor theory?(17:57) - What is the most interesting part of this teaser?(18:24) - What are the dynamics you will face if you want to purchase a business like this? (20:04) - Why does this business still have a bizarre dynamic?(25:14) - Where will you find the best value in today’s market?(26:55) - Send over some Deals!Additional episodes you might enjoy:#165 - Should we buy this airplane ad business?#164 - Annual Report Filing Software#163 - Make $2.3M/yr owning a Flight School#162 - Cleaning up crime scenes for big money!#161 - How to spot red flags in eCommerce listings?Subscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous, the Internet's number one podcast about buying, selling, and investing and owning and operating small businesses. And we've actually started to do some bigger businesses too, which today is an example of that. This is Michael Grayley. Mills and I got together and spent some time talking about a legal technology business that does $2 million a year in profits and has been growing really well. And they do some fun stuff that may tie back to the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial. So I think you'll enjoy this one. And we really dug into this corner of the market because we're starting to want to do these bigger businesses because people are buying bigger businesses and we enjoy talking about them.

So this is a fun one, very professionally managed and brokered business and learned a lot and had a good chat about it. So with no further ado, here is the episode. Hey, Michael here. Want to talk to you about today's sponsor for the episode, which is cloudbookkeeping.com. So cloud bookkeeping is actually run by my neighbor, Charlie. So I've met him in person and can attest that he's a real human being and a good person. And what cloud bookkeeping does is offer a full suite of bookkeeping services all in the cloud for you around QuickBooks and other technologies that you're using as a small business owner. So if you're interested in getting the bookkeeping part of running a business off of your plate and focusing on running your business, Charlie and his team are one to call.

They can put together a bunch of other stuff in terms of helping you manage and grow your business besides just bookkeeping, sophisticated reporting, definitely helping you get your quickbooks online set up in the right way, and a number of things around payroll as well. So definitely know them and recommend them. If you want to find out more about cloud bookkeeping, you can go to their website at cloudbookkeeping.com, reach out to Charlie. I know many of you have and see if he can help you. make running your business easier and more fun by letting them help with a lot of the bookkeeping

solutions. And when you call, mention this podcast, it would help us and help Charlie know that we're supporting him as well. So thanks a bunch and cloudbookkeeping.com as the sponsor for today's episode. All right. We're back. Mills, it's a miracle. You and I look identical to last week's episode. How did this happen? I hate to bring you to you. I wear the same thing every day. No. Actually, actually, I tell people, one of the best innovations we've made about this podcast is we made it shorter so we could record two of them in an hour. So that way, like, we're like, hey, welcome back for another week episode that we just finished recording like three minutes ago. That and the total lack of preparation to do this podcast makes it excellent. Because I see those guys like the Acquired.fm guys, do you know how much prep they do for each episode? It's like dozens of hours. Yeah, I love listening to it because it's such a deep dive, but I'm like, man, that has to be exhausting. Yeah, I don't think it's sustainable. I mean, they're venture capitalists, so it's like they got a lot of free time.

But for those of us with pretend real jobs, like, there's no way I could do that. Like, it's just impossible to, like, there's no way I could do 30 hours of research on, you know, AWS or whatever. And then organize that. Like, give me a break. Like, I need to come in here, drop some dimes and hit the road. So that's our whole format. Exactly. All right, so we got a killer deal today.

We put out a call for bigger deals, and somebody sent us one. So, yay, us. By the way, if you do run across a deal that's not on one of the public listing sites, like a teaser or whatever, you're not under NDA, email it to us. We'll do it on the show. Ideally, if it's doing more than a couple million in profit, we want to see it. So email me, Michael at gurdley.com. We'll take a look at it.

And at the worst case, I'll just ignore you. I'm trying to respond to everybody. All right. It's the worst that can happen. That's the worst. There's actually very nice. Like, you know, I get asked to be on podcasts, and I got asked to be on like the South African energy-centric podcast. And I just, I guess I was special because most people just ghost the guy, but actually, like, Mirko and I looked at it, asked him to send his proposal.

And I said, here's why I can't do it. And thanks for that. And then he wrote something really nice about me on Twitter. I was like, oh, this is really sweet. But, like, he went through enough time to try it. And look, if people are going to try to be supportive, I'm going to try the same thing. And I think they deserve it because we appreciate our fans. Totally agree.

All right. On that note, you're going to read this one, Project gavel. Yeah. So you pull it up. I mean, this, I will just say for everybody, this is what a real teaser looks like. There's a lot here. There's a lot of information.

And you know it's real when at the bottom there's like all these names right from the investment bank, Berkeley noise. You have like, you know, two managing directors, two VPs and an analyst. Like this is textbook, you know, investment banking sim format. And there's a lot here. it's kind of hard to tell what this company does. So I'm just going to read it. This is Project Gabble.

That's the other cool thing. We've talked about this a few times. Investment banks, they're all like project code name. And so Project Gabble because it's a legal technology provider. And GAVL provides technology solutions and online platforms to legal events and is transforming the way attorneys prepare for, participate in, and learn from litigation through two primary subscription-based solutions. That means nothing.

it to me in a way, but let's dive a little bit deeper. One, remote services. Revolutionary video conferencing and real-time text streaming platform making remote participation in court depositions both simple and effective for litigators. And then two, news networks, the national news organizations supplying unprecedented live and on-demand access to courtroom proceedings. Okay, that, I get it. That makes sense.

They have distance-based engagement through streaming and remote. participation on Gaville's platform to provide clients with significant cost and time savings, typically associated with in-person courtroom events. Attorneys bill by the hour, if they have to go travel somewhere to get to the courtroom, they are still billing you by the hour. The company's offerings are easily accessible platforms backed by strong support staff. Remote services has hosted nearly a million participants since January 2021 and recorded more than 60 terabytes of remote depositions in total, wild news network has brought in live

and on-demand access to court proceedings to thousands of litigators and legal professionals. So is this education-based, Michael? Like, would you be listening in on like courtroom, not for like courtroom TV drama, but like for education? Are you getting that gist? I'm not sure. I thought this was just one company that just solely covers the Johnny Depp Amber Hurd trial. Dude, well, we talked about this like right before.

before we hit record before, but the Alex Murdoch case is going on in South Carolina right now. And I was just like raving about it and you're like, I don't even know what you're talking about. So I literally don't. But it turns out there was this one family who was basically had corrupted the entire judicial system in South Carolina. Is that basically that's this and then they were hiding murders? Yes. Yes. Hiding murders is this whole thing.

And the trial is happening right now. So I'm wondering if this is like the way that other attorneys get to watch what's happening. in the courtroom. So I think, yeah, it sounds like there's two businesses to recap what you're saying. Number one is they appear to do live coverage of trials of different sites, of different stuff. So like if you want to get Amber Hur, Johnny Depp trial coverage, they have a camera there and, you know, they've got a situation in which they're like recording that and then you can get that feed if you're CNN or court TV or whatever. So and then the second thing appears to be that they have a network of people that will go. And if there's a deposition happening, right, rather than the lawyer traveling all the way to South Carolina from New York or wherever,

they can sit in their office and they do a remote video conference and there's a person that they've sent there that will allow that to basically go across their platform and do so in a way that can be used for, you know, depositions. So if you see video tape depositions, that those appear to be the two different businesses that they do. And, you know, they are hitting all. all the notes right here that appeal to professional buyers. It's 64% recurring revenue, 36% non-recurring. They show, I love charts like this because they don't really mean anything, but they show global legal tech market size.

So the TAM for all of global legal market tech is expected to be $25 billion in 2025, which is a 6.4% compound annual. growth rate. They're just saying, hey, look, it's not a shrinking market. The company's revenue in 2020, so this business is not that old. At least they're not giving us any data before 2019, and they're quoting stats kind of from 2021 forward. But 2020, they did $4 million in revenue and half million in adjusted EBITDA. 2020, they did $6.1 million in revenue and $2.2 million in adjusted EBITDA. And then in 2022, they're saying actual, so this is relatively recent, $7 million in revenue and $2.4 million in adjusted EBITDA.

And they're forecasting, you know, a much slower growth rate than has been, you know, up until this point, but definitely up until the right. Man, what a cool little business that they operate at 34% adjusted EBITA. Now, I'm curious how much is adjusted. It's funny, like, you know the Charlie Munger quote that's like, when I hear EBDA, I think of bullshit earnings. That's what he describes it. What is adjusted even?

Like is it bullshit, bullshit earnings? Oh, yeah. Totally. I mean, honestly, this is, I feel like this is something that will be cool to talk about. Usually for something like this, the most egregious adjustments that you see are like,

well, we had to spend a bunch of money developing our software, and we want that added back. I mean, from a legal standpoint, you can capitalize software development, and you can use it to write off. You depreciate it over time.

but it's one of those, you know, and then you, or you can deduct that as CapEx. I mean, there's just, there's different games. But, you know, the problem with that is like the freaking accountants can't agree on it. That's the big problem. Like, they're like, well, sometimes and like something this and something like that. So, you know, and it makes it very difficult when you're trying to do apples to apples comparisons and you own one of those businesses where you're like, okay, well, which year did we change how we're capitalizing software development?

Like, and you're just like, oh, my God. Like, can we just pick one and go with it? And anyway, did I just give Warren Buffett's entire complaint about accountants? It's like, is that it? The issue I have with it is that more times than not, right? These are not like set it and forgive it, forget it technology solutions. You're going to have spent money building the software, building the platform, and, you know, developing it. But you're also going to have to continue to spend money.

Maybe not at the same rate. But if you're going to grow at the rate that they're talking about growing, you're going to have to continue to invest in the bones, right? in the actual back office of this. And so you see sometimes, especially on something that's really new like this, that the, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if the unadjusted EBITDA, like in year one was actually negative. And then they're adjusting it up to profitability. And then probably like it looks like they're getting to some, you know, economies of

scale and some, you know, actual operating leverage at this point. But I would be surprised that if there's not really, really steep adjustments on this, that they're going to have a really good case for doesn't mean you have to accept it. Yeah. Look, and I think you made a great point here. When you look at this teaser, they talk about the difference between recurring and non-recurring revenue. So if you're a buyer, typically buyers put a lot more value on recurring revenue. And why is that?

Because you know you don't have to go sell it again. It's just going to show up next year. So, but then you double click on the idea of recurring revenue and not our recurring revenue is the same. So Mills, let me give you two different options. You can own this business, which by and large, appears to be sending out recurring revenue, but it is relatively commoditized, right? It's just like somebody with a camera on a news and a news sitting in a courtroom, or it's somebody who flew out with Zoom, basically, and is running a remote service deposition for you. That is the business, relatively easy to recreate those two

things. Or I can tell you that you have, whatever the size of this business is, $7 million, in recurring revenue for, let's say, just a little software company, like a CRM like Salesforce, in which it's pretty much impossible for somebody to replace Salesforce. This is easily replicable. So it's important to know when you're looking at this type of stuff, what the brokers are trying to do to you. In this case, they're trying to get you very excited that this is recurring revenue. It's not very sticky recurring revenue, right?

And that's the big danger that you can get you in trouble in a business like this is, yeah, they've been growing and doing very well. But like somebody else can come in and undercut you very easily. because there's just not that many barriers to entry in a business like this compared to, you know, Salesforce, for example, or another piece of software, you know, as a different type of business that's very sticky recurring revenue. Yeah, because, you know, in this case, the recurring revenue means they probably have your credit card on file.

It doesn't mean that you can't cancel it, right? It's not contractual revenue. So, you know, just because they have your credit card on file and you're using it as a Zoom-like service, the switching costs are very, very low. If you're like a dental practice and you've built your entire, you know, scheduling and billing and everything into that one software platform, the switching costs are monumental. Like, there would have to be significant savings or significant pain to switch from whatever your platform is.

Same with like legal billing platforms, right? So like, it's, it depends on how entrenched that offering is into the kind of DNA of the business. I can't imagine that this is that much. it seems like it's a fairly discretionary expense, especially on the news side. Like, you know, you could also just Google about it more than likely. And they mention, you know, other, you know, other news networks, you know, and other law firms like Jones Day and LexisNexis, which is a legal services provider and tech platform. So I'm not totally convinced that there's like something actually here that is durable and sustainable.

Michael, what do you think is the, who do you think is the? ideal buyer for something like this. They're definitely pitching it like institutional buyers should buy this. I think, I mean, this seems like a perfect search funder kind of situation. You know, I think, I think that when you dig underneath this and you ask yourself, what is the real pain in the ass of this business? You know, that's kind of a core gurdly theory. By the, would you like a gurdly theory? You have a beard. Would you like a gurdly theory? Let me give you one. Every business has its core one or two pain in the asses. And it's just, you need to make sure you're okay with having that one. You know, that's okay. That's going to be the pain in the ass, right? Like, I own a business.

And when I business is, like, you know what the pain of the ass is? Cash flow sucks. That's the pain of the ass. Are you going to be okay with that? Okay, well, then, you know, go and do it with that kind of idea. And I think when you look at this business, this is primarily you're dealing with people who are going to be flying around and staying in shady motels in some courtroom in Sacramento to put a news camera in there every day for you and you don't know how long the Amber Heard

trial is going to take. Right. I say, I think the pain in the ass in this business is definitely, it's a people pain in the ass. and you need those type of businesses work best with an owner operator. So I think this would be a great search funder. Like I think this is a good one for them. It's not big enough as a Tam for some corporate buyer, some PE buyer to buy this and expect to triple the value.

But this is really good if you're like some MBA student who's, you know, graduating and doing a search fund, that is totally who I would push to a deal like this. Because you could go in there and learn real quickly how much people are jackasses. Because that's what this whole business is. I wonder if that is their business model. I really don't know.

I'm not just saying that to argue, but I wonder if that's their business model. It seems like it's so much more tech focused than like people and services focused. But I mean, who knows? Until you get into it and really can peel back the curtains. So yeah, I guess you're clearly for the news network part of the business, which is about a third of it. You have to have somebody out there in Sacramento, right, or wherever the trial is running the thing. So that's going to cost you. The remote services, I guess is your question, right?

it run like Zoom or do you have to have somebody out there in the deposition room making sure that the thing gets done correctly? And because this is, because this is legal proceedings, my suspicion is it's like you have to have like a court reporter and all that kind of person out there. I think if you're going to run technology, my guess is you have to have somebody out there coordinating all that and being a witness to it and making sure it doesn't get tamper and all that kind of stuff. But you could be right. I don't know. That was a total supposition, you know. And I know it's a surprise that I would do one of these episodes and just make a bunch of guesses. on stuff, but yeah, I did.

That's what we do every time. We have people. That's the whole show. We have people who email us sometimes and they're like, hey, you miss this massive thing and like it debunked your entire episode and we just sweep it under the rug. Well, I mean, here's the reality is this show, I think works because we make it entertaining. By the way, this may be the most boring thing I've ever talked about because I keep talking about the show.

But like, if we're not making it entertaining, ain't nobody going to listen. So would you rather us be entertaining and sometimes wrong? or would you rather us be always right and boring as hell? Like, by the way, we tried boring as hell early and nobody listened. So we're going, we'll do it my way now. No, I think, I mean, I think this is interesting. To me, the most kind of compelling point about this teaser is this is dramatically different than a bizbysell.com listing.

You know, and like notice that there's quality associated with the delivery. There's not typos. There's like five people you can get in touch with. You know, like you're going to sign the NDA. You're going to get a response from these guys. You're not going to get ghosted. And they know all the right notes to hit on. And guess what?

You are going to be part of a competitive process. Like they send this out. They have a massive distribution list of buyers. They're going to send this to hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of people as prospective buyers. They're going to get signed NDAs from hundreds. And then they're going to start filtering from there. And you don't get like a man.

management call, you don't get a meeting with the owner or a site visit just because you signed the NDA. You're going to have to submit an I-O-I, more than likely, they're going to want an I-O-I next. They're going to maybe do, they will do calls with you after you get the SIM and review it, but it's not going to be with ownership. And then they're going to have a deadline to say, we want I-O-I's, or if it's really aggressive, we want LOIs by a certain date, and then we'll decide how many people actually get invited on the site visit. But it's going to be timeline. It's going to be competitive. It's going to be a blind bid. There's no asking price. This is the other end of the market. And so we try and look at both ends in the market and we want to look at

more stuff like stuff because it's out there and it's very intriguing. And it's more in the size range of, you know, I think what's attractive to most buyers. I'm going to get off the soapbox now. No, no, it's perfect. But I mean, I think it goes back to the idea like, you know, me and my associates have looked at some stuff like this recently, and it's like, you know, like there's been a few times where they've refused to let us into the process because they're like, yeah, like, you're never going to get there, buddy. They just save us some time. Or like, you go in the data room and you're like, there's 36 different parties looking in this data room who've been qualified. That's not even the people they threw away. So, you know, it's just kind of

a bizarre, it's a bizarre dynamic. I mean, there's still just so much capital out there. And, you know, the deals that are good for good quality companies, like there's still just an overwhelming amount of capital trying to get into those. Like what recession for that stuff? And, you know, I think this is one of those that's going to get that. I mean, it clicks all the buttons of something that is going to go for people with,

you know, trying to deploy capital. And it wouldn't surprise me if something like this goes for seven, eight, nine times EBITDA plus maybe some incentives on top of it. Like this type of dynamic, like there are tons of, as we call jamming.

Have you heard of jam bogs? Just another middle market buyout group. I shared that yesterday. Yeah, that's the joke. Yeah, so all these, the joke there is that, you know, there's everybody in their mom and dad and cousins and their pet snake has raised a private equity fund. And so so many of them are like, we're doing Main Street middle market buyout with $5 million to $15 million in equity or EBITA and, you know, and this and that and all that criteria. And, yeah, the joke is they're just another middle market buyout group, J-A-M-M-B-O-G, so jam-bog. So all the jam-bogs to a certain thing are going to be interested in $2 million in additional EBITA,

especially if they already have a legal tech, you know, platform company they want to bolt this on to. Yeah, yeah. Well, and to your point, just to add on to it, you know, if everybody and their brother has raised a lower middle market buyout fund, like 10 times that amount are the funless. sponsors, the people who just do deals and they fund them on a deal by deal basis. Why are you looking at me when you say that? But you've actually done deals, right? There's plenty of people out there who do that and they still have yet to do a deal.

It's really, it is really interesting when you talk to sellers and you can just say, like, I've done this, I've done that. I've transitioned on that. And so like our software company, Dura, you know, they've done 11 acquisitions. And most people never do one. And like what, what I discovered when we were building that business was, you know, when you could say, hey, we bought one business, we closed on the deal. Like, the attitude of sellers radically changed because there's just so many people that are full of crap. And like, if like you could just prove quantitatively that you've done at least one deal, like it just put you in a higher, higher order of magnitude.

And like we saw that when we started Dura, you know, five years ago, you know, there would be a bunch of people that were like doing the same business plan. but they like never executed once. Like I saw all their decks like they would get sent to me. Like, hey, these guys are doing exactly what you're doing. I was like, yeah, call me when they actually do a deal. Because most people are just all talk. I don't know if you're aware of that bills. Most people don't actually get stuff done.

I believe you. I've seen it. I believe you. All right. Well, what do we think else about this? I mean, somebody should make a run at this. Would this be a good one for our fund? No.

By the way, do you think we should raise a fund? I don't want to buy a business like this. I want to do the tennis court. I want to do the tennis court deal for our first for a first one deal. So many people want to do the tennis court deal. Like some of my colleagues who live in the Northeast, I was on a call with him this morning. And they were like, hey, I think we figured out where the tennis court one is. We're going to go to the guy's house.

I was like, we have to do it. It's really, it's a good deal. Like tennis court surfacing huge future. I was like, okay. Yeah. I mean, like, cool. But like that resounded with everybody. Meanwhile, when we wanted, we did that water park in Australia, crickets.

Yeah. We were all trying to go on the site visit is what it was. Yeah. Well, I mean, the water park in Australia was crazy because it was like, you have to fly to Sydney and then you got to fly to Brisbane and then you have to drive two hours. Like, like it's going to take you a week to get there. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think I think the takeaway is if you're looking for a deal to do, like it's a sign when you see a deal like this project gavel that's, you know, basically the broker is making a really good market. And you ask the. people who are like making good deals these days, they are going after stuff that isn't like this. Stuff that's not well marketed, stuff that maybe has a little hair on the deal.

Maybe the sellers just, there's something odd about it. You know, that's where you're going to find the value. And like these brokers, their job, as you talked about, Mills, is to make like a really good market, like get a lot of buyers, get a lot of interest, create an auction. And like, you know, that kind of thing. So it's kind of like my, you know, my, did I ever tell you my father-in-law is an antique car collector, plastic car collector? So yeah, huge buyer and seller of this stuff, like owned cars from, you know, 110-year-old cars, seven, you know, bought cars from the 70s, like all this different, like cool classic cars. And at one point he had a barn of like 14 or 15 of these things.

And I asked them, I was like, well, how do you find your deals? Like, do you go to the auctions? He's like, auctions. I'm never going to know no auction. You don't find no deal at no auction. And it's true. It's like, why do auctions work? It's because they get a bunch of buyers in there.

They get them emotional. And they can suss out out of the 300 people in there who's going to be given them. the best bid at that moment. And these investment bankers, when you see something really good, put together like this Berkeley Noah's deal that we're looking at, they're doing their job, right? And they're getting 300 bidders to look at the thing. And dang sure, you know, you ain't get no value price because they only got to find one dummy to overpay. And I think the same thing. You see people doing deals now, and they're the ones that are calling owners or are intermediaries or just finding weird stuff that just isn't marketed very well. And that's where you're going to be

finding the value these days, not something like this. It's a fun one to talk about. because it's very, you know, it's very different. And it hits a certain spot on the spectrum of businesses for sale. It's a very, very competitive place in the spectrum. Yeah. I do look at their customer lists and it's one of the law firms that I use. Like, that is why their bills are so high. Yeah.

Cool. All right. We think anything else about this one? I don't think so. We'll put this one in the show notes. I mean, definitely some other quick reactions to it. I think adjusted EBDA, I want to understand what? the adjustments are. That's huge.

You know, is this really $2.2 million in free cash flow? Is it $2 million in free cash flow? Is it $1.1 million in free cash flow? And they've done a bunch of financial shenanigans. You know, that's what it ultimately all comes down to. I would be very questioning what adjustments they needed to make in a business like this. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, the company, here's the other reason I think there's a lot of people involved.

The company's offerings are easily accessible platforms backed by a strong support staff. So, yeah, the question is, do you have to go out and about to make it happen? or not. I don't know. I do not know. Cool. All right, man. Thanks for the listeners for this one. Oh, yeah. Whoever it was that sent it was awesome. Thank you. Send us big deals if you have them, especially ones that aren't on Biz by Sell. Ain't nobody want to listen to us, talk about some another. What's the most common thing we've done? Like a random, well, we've done some random stuff. We have a favorite most random one was when we did that dude ranch out of the middle of nowhere in Texas. Like that was like the

weirdest. We have a New Jersey nightclub in the parking lot and I'm just like this is this is, This is like right down the fairway for BizBus. We totally need to do that because I got a lot of Tony Suprano jokes. I think it would be perfect. Super cool. Yeah, if you see a deal especially that's cool, it's a teaser. You're not under NDA. Send it to us.

By and large, we're doing them when people send them to us just because we're desperate for deals. And anything cool, especially big, send it to us. You can email me, Michael atGarly.com, you know, our Mills at Chili's fan.com. those are all options. Please tell me. What do you want to say really? Chilisean.com? Do you have it?

I don't. Dang. No. No, my new trick actually is I have a Chili's gift card that one of our listeners sent me. People send me Chili's gift cards. And like when I'm like sitting like I was at the bank getting something notarized with my wife today. And like I just opened up my wallet to take out my driver's license for the notary. And then I took out another card from my from my wallet.

And I like handed it to my wife very suspiciously. and she turned it over and was a Chili's gift card. It was very romantic. Cool. All right. Well, hey, do us a favor. If you like this podcast, pick the person that you think would hate it the most and send them an episode.

Send them your favorite episode and say, hey, I think you might like this podcast. These guys are duffices, but they sometimes say some smart stuff and it's very entertaining. And send it to one of your friends, whether they would like it or hate it. We would really appreciate it. Help get the word out. Mills, great job today. We'll see you next week. See you.