Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - A pet treats ingredient supplier with $2.5M of EBITDA - Acquisitions Anonymous 237

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

In this episode of Acquisitions Anonymous, Michael, Bill, and Heather discuss a pet treat ingredient provider. They delve into the value chain's complexities, geographic limitations, and the significance of its specialized blending and market positioning. They also touch on the challenges of financing and potential private equity involvement. The conversation takes an entertaining turn as they share personal anecdotes about their pets.Today's deal comes from Axial.  Axial is a trusted deal-sourcing platform serving professional acquirers in the American lower middle market.Thanks to our sponsors!Acquisition Lab. Acquisition Lab and their team have been longtime supporters of the pod.Created by Walker Diebel, author of Buy Then Build: How to Outsmart the Startup Game, is an accelerator with a highly vetted cohort-based educational and support community for people serious about buying a business.Many of our listeners tune in each week to our deal reviews and want to get in on buying a business but don’t know where to start.Acquisition Lab exists to help people buy a business, navigate all the process complexities, and provide a trusted framework, tools, and resources to support you from search to close.If you are serious about buying a business, check out acquisitionlab.com or email the Lab's director, Chelsea Wood, at [e-mail]--------------Double Jump Media is your one-stop shop for creating engaging, high-quality videos.Double Jump is a boutique video production company with over a decade of experience creating professional, memorable videos for clients from around the globe and in various industries. All while helping those clients generate millions in sales through video content.So, whether you’re rebranding a business you recently purchased, launching a new product or service, or want to look awesome, Double Jump is down to clown.Visit www.doublejump.media to check out their portfolio and schedule your free consultation today.Subscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Hey, Michael here. Welcome to Acquisites Anonymous. Fun episode today. Heather, myself and Bill went through a fun deal, a little bit on the bigger side, I think about $7,8 million in revenue if memory serves, that does supply chain stuff, so it provides chemicals and components to people who make pet food treats. So very kind of nichey thing, but also super interesting discussion that came from it, how to value the business, and who should buy it. So pretty fun. one. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. And here is the episode. This episode of Acquisitions Anonymous is sponsored by Acquisition Lab and their team. They've been longtime supporters of the pod and they provide a really great service for people who are looking to acquire a business.

So it's created by Walker Dival, who's become a friend, the author of Buy, Then Build, how to outsmart the startup game. So Acquisition Labs is an accelerator with a highly vetted cohort-based educational and support community for people who are serious about buying a business. So a lot of our listeners like you, you turn in every week to our deal reviews. You want to get in on buying a business. You know, you're on this podcast because you're trying to learn how to buy a business. But if you're not quite sure where to start, Acquisition Lab is a great place to start. So they exist to help people buy a business and to navigate all those complexities of the process, everything you hear us talking about on the show.

They provide a proven framework, tools and resources that support you all the way from search to close. They do it. There's a whole bunch of educational material and support. So if you're serious about buying a business, check out AcquisitionLab.com, or you can actually email the program director Chelsea Wood directly. Her email is Chelsea at buy then build.com. Hey guys, welcome. I had cancer this week. I had it cut out of my face, so I have this thing. But the good news is it's on the correct side of my face to not see the bandage. So everybody will just be like, why is Girdley talking funnier than usual? And it's because I had surgery on my face on Wednesday. Most of your face still remains, so that's good.

All the bad parts are still visible. The good news is at least a third of my face is covered up by this bandage. It's like, I imagine you're like that guy in the Batman movie where, you know, he like turns, he's got like half a face. What's two, you know, the guy from thank you for smoking. And then he gets his face blowing off and he becomes the villain. Oh, man. You know the one? I grew up wanting to be the, I grew up wanting to be Batman, and you just tell me I look like

the penguin. That's pretty much how this works. No, no, no. He's, what's his name's like? Two-face or Two-face or something like that. Yeah. Super funny. Super funny.

All right. Well, look, we got another Axial deal today. So I think before we were starting, Bill, you were expressing your continued love and admiration for Axial. I tend to agree. Yeah. I'm having fun with these axial deals. I think they're bigger, which is cool.

They're usually professionally represented. No offense, all of our business broker friends out there, but very often they've got a real intermediary. They got good teasers, and I find there's a lot more like real businesses rather than like kind of either like crappy, low end local businesses or like potentially scammy econ businesses.

Axel has like a whole bunch of these like legit, a couple million bucks in need a die, real intermediary deals. Yeah, gotta love it. And I like how everything's standardized on the teasers. It's just all business. Cool. Well, it turns out, I picked one.

It turns out we have a guy, Heather, who's on the podcast, who knows a lot about pets. Yes. And the same's Bill. And so I picked this one because it's a pet ingredient provider who is seeking sale. The company is a U.S.-based value-added distributor of refined and custom-blended food binding agents, providing small batches or proprietary mixes to pet food and treat contract manufacturers who are referred to from here on out as CMs. established in 1995, the company has a long history of supplying gelatin and dry blends to leading pet food treat CMS.

In addition to its proprietary blends, the company provides customers with custom batch sizing and repackaging services with U.S.-based H-AACP and GMP Food Safety Programs. In continued acquisitions anonymous pattern, I have no idea what any of those things are, but I'm excited to learn about them today after I Google them. The company produces a refined, low-bloom gelatin, uses a natural binder and stabilizer in many pet foods and treats. They work with CMS and end customers to develop gelatin-based blends unique to each pet treat product, its superior technical expertise, and consistent product quality drive a long-term tenured customer base. As a USDA-A-A-A-FIS certified food facility, the company's well-positioned in the market with strong vendor relationships and trusted high-quality products, the customer continues, the company continues to benefit from the growing pet industry with strong market tailwinds and solid. long-term growth outlook. Their binding agents are also used in animal feeds, insecticides, wood smoking biscuits, and various other consumer industrial products. The real estate is owned by the company. The owner remains flexible in regard to the treatment

of the real estate in a transaction. Revenue-wise, 2021, 6.2 million revenue, EBITA of 1.4 million, 22% EBITA margin. 22, 7.2 million, 1.9 million EBITA, and a 20%% EBITA margin. This year, they are projecting doing $8.2 million in revenue, 14% year-over-year growth, and $2.5 million in EBDA with 30% EBITA margin. It is located in the west-south central. So my neck of the woods, Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, New Mexico. And they are in the industries you would expect them to be, which is food products for food products and biting agents for pet food.

So it looks like a pretty good business. What do you guys think? It's super high. it's interesting. Well, let's explain the value chain here and like first where this company sits in the value chain. So they are an ingredient provider to contract manufacturers. So these guys are almost about as upstream as you can get. So if you start with a brand, like a dog food or dog supplement brand, right, they're going to use a contract manufacturer most likely. That contract manufacturer is going to buy ingredients from someone else, namely these guys,

right? And now these guys are going to either buy bulk ingredients from someone else and then parcel them down and sell them in the contract manufacturers or actually produce the ingredients. And that's what I can't tell here. If it's gelatin, if it's gelatin, are they buying like truckloads of gelatin from the people who grind the animal bones? Right, which by the way, that's where gelatin comes from. So are these guys the guys that grind the animal bones and make gelatin, or are they buying it from like a big animal producer, like a Tyson or, you know, all these other, these huge animal producer products companies, are they just buying it by the truckload and parceling it down into like 40 pound bags or totes?

Toad is like a pallet, but like a container, like you could fill it with liquid or powder. So are they just repackaging or are they actually grinding bones? They're described here in the first sentence as a value added distributor. of refined and custom blended food binding agents. So I think it's exactly what you talked about. They're buying, you know, by the acre and then selling by the square foot to these small contract manufacturers. That would be my guess based on what this says.

So they're middlemen between the factory, which, you know, gelatin and stuff like that, I assume works like most other animal products. Like you, there's different buyers who come out of the animal processing plants. And so if you're treating, if you're doing goats or. sheep or are cows, like all the different parts of the cow gets sold off to different people. And I think this is one of those ones who functions as that middleman. And I know people in this kind of middleman style business who buy from those big factories and they just, the factories like that are processing cows or processing chickens or whatever,

like they love working with guys like this because they don't want to become a specialist in anything other than chopping up cows and like doing that safely and creating meat. and then like all the other stuff, they're happy to like turn that over to specialists. Like these guys, we're going to turn around and, you know, market it well into the market and all that kind of stuff.

And it can be extremely lucrative. Yeah, they say value added. This could be something like, I'm making this up, but maybe when you gelatin comes off the truck, like it's prone to caking or something, and that just comes from moisture in the gelatin.

So they could be like blending in a food safe, anti-caking additive, and then selling that, you know, post-blend in for, into the contract manufacturing. So when I hear value added, value added can mean a lot of things. Like how much value are you truly adding?

Are you just filling it into bags? You know, people would say that's value-added distributor because you touch it. Like a true distributor, it comes in one dock door and it leaves another dock door. That's like a non-value-added distributor, right? Value-adding a distributor could very much, to use Michael's term, be buying an acres and selling in square feet and call themselves a value-added distributor. Or it could be, you know, something as complex as buy it, buy the truckload, use a blending facility to add in anti-cakeeping agents or vitamins or something else,

and then selling a proprietary blend or a treated gelatin or whatever it might be, maybe gelatin comes with bacteria in it and needs to be irradiated. And then you can sell like an irradiated food safe gelatin. Like the more they mess with it, the better business it is, right? Because the moat goes up. And I got to believe 26% EBITDA margins, right? they must be messing with it at least a little bit. Yeah, and I'm thinking there's a clue in the title, Pet Treat.

You know, they talk about their other uses for these binding agents, right? Animal feed, insecticide, you know, wood smoking briquettes. But the headline is Pet Treat. So I'm sort of guessing that means that's where the growth is all coming from. And, you know, maybe they're a little bit concentrated in that area. Or maybe they've come up with, you know, to your point, Bill, a proprietary blend that's really great for holding. the pet treats together really well, but it seems like they're very, very focused on something, you know, that's a niche market, a growing niche market, but, you know, there may be a

concentration there with pet treats, I don't know. So the funny thing is, for those that don't know, the pet market is exploding right now, supplements, treats, food, the humanization of pet is this like massive industry-wide tailwind that is just exploding everything pet. It's been going on for the past several years. It will keep going on for the next five to ten years. Like private equity is tripping over themselves to get pet exposure right now. So either Heather, you're right, and this is actually concentrated in pet treat, which I think would, it would be a good thing. Or the other side of the coin, this is a good broker. And you get into this and you realize that 5% of their business is in fact pet.

But the broker has said, oh, this is the big growth area. This is what everybody's looking for. If we position this as a pet treat ingredient provider, we'll get three extra turns on the multiple. So I see that all the time too. Like a clever broker just says, tailwind, this is what people are looking for. Position as the minority part of this business

is the main part of this business. Good point. And now this is an axial broker. So maybe they're better than that. you know what? Yeah, it's just probably could be good marketing. I would argue that the better, the intermediary, the more likely they are to do that. So the two questions I would have looking into this business, well, maybe three questions.

Number one, how much transformation are they actually doing post post it coming out of the, you know, the animal processing plant? Like that's talking about, Bill, how much true value add there is. number two, like the suppliers of gelatins and all that stuff, like the food processing industry is very concentrated. So you have to understand where you're sitting in that value chain and do you run a danger of where these guys are in the value chain of going from farmer or rancher takes animal to food processor, food processor does their job. They sell the refined products to different folks, including this company, and then they sell it again. like can that refiner use their market position to depress your pricing power in the future or raise prices on you, which is the thing I would really want to dig into as the third thing, which is like what's going on with my relationship with that processing plant?

Like do I have an exclusivity? What does that contract look like? Is it a handshake? Some of those things work on handshakes, by the way, which is welcome to Iowa. That's how this stuff works. And then the fourth thing I really want to know is like how regional of a business is this. Is geography like a moat for me just because I'm the only person doing this in Dallas? Anybody that wants to make a food treat's got to call me.

And that makes it really good, but it's also a weakness, which is I got to worry about somebody coming into my geography. So anyway, that's the four gridly things I would worry about. I probably should have said those one at a time to make for better radio, but I was like, I've got to get all these out. I'm so excited. Well, the geography thing's smart because this stuff is heavy. I mean, they're like big sandbags, bags of powder, right?

So shipping can become a not insignificant part of the cost. So, you know, we have chosen suppliers that are closer to each other at times to save shipping costs. I know a guy who makes bricks and like he said, it just doesn't make sense to ship them more than a couple hundred miles because like a brick costs a dollar or something. And it costs $3 to ship it like 100 miles or something. So it's like 70% of the cost of bricks is getting it to your job site. So, you know, it could be something like that where, to your point, Michael, could be local. quarries have a similar kind of function. Density is a moat for them, right?

Like, nobody's going to ship gravel all the way across the United States unless they really, really have to. So, like, when you own a quarry, it's like, it's a license to print money in some regards because, A, it's really hard to open a new quarry because nobody wants a nasty dynamite exploding quarry next to their house or property.

And number two, like, you know, you know you're going to own that market for 100 miles in any direction, going down that path. So I have some buddies that own a quarry too and they're like, yep, our mode is

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So, and the other thing I would think about, I don't know how much you guys know about contract manufacturing. So I'm the customer of several, you know, pet tree contract manufacturers. The many times sort of the core skill of a contract manufacturer, it can be boiled down to blending, right? Like what they're doing is they are buying raw ingredients and they basically put them all of that, you know, in a certain order at a certain temperature. And they mix them all together and then they like let them dry or make them wet or like, you know, it's like basically a mixing facility, right? A mixing and then packaging facility.

So one of my other questions would be, you know, sort of the more value added these guys are, it also begs, like, let's say they're blending in an anti-caking agent. I would want to go to their customers and go, why can't the manufacturer just blend in the anti-caking agent? Right? Like, they're a blending facility. Like, why does the contract manufacturer choose to outsource,

like, whatever the value ad is of these guys? you know, a contract manufacturer is almost certainly buying gelatin by the truckload anyway, right? And could probably jump these guys in the value chain. So I want to understand, like, why do these guys actually have to exist? You know, it's easy to say, oh, well, because they do all this blending or like, oh, they buy it by the truckload. Well, a contract manufacturer can definitely do blending. I mean, I would be floored if these guys do some sort of manipulation to it that a contract manufacturer cannot do because all contract manufacturers are GMP and food safe and all that stuff anyway.

They have to be as well. So the certifications are a moat, but not against their contract manufacturers. And all the contract manufacturers already have blending equipment, right? So the capex there is not a moat either. So why does the contract manufacturer want these guys to exist? And then when you talk about batch sizing, you know, a contract manufacturer can almost certainly buy a truckload of gelatin as well because they're aggregating across all of their clients.

So I would really want to understand what value is the contract manufacturer consciously pushing up the value chain to these guys. And are they consciously pushing it up the value chain or have they just not yet figured out that they can capture it back? Yeah, well, I'll tell you. That's interesting. Oh, Heather, Bill and I've done this, that thing that we do, we get so excited. We just keep talking really fast and don't give you a chance to talk. So let me make my point because I'm really excited about it. And then we need, Bill and are you going to shut up because we need to hear your wisdom.

So I'll tell you what happens with my buddy, who's in a similar business to this, Bill and Heather, which is, like, the dynamic is the processing plants don't want to deal with multiple vendors because, like, as my grandfather would say, this is this a bump on a pickle to them? Like, it is, they're worried about meat and all that other stuff, and, like, they don't give a crap about $5 million worth of gelatin leaving their plant. So because of that, they only want to work with one supplier, and they sell it all. to that individual. And like that dynamic is a moat where like as long as he keeps that contract, like he doesn't

have to worry about what you're talking about, Bill, which is getting cut out of the value chain. And so I think this is one of those odd cases where often just being a nuisance for the, you know, for the processing plant, which is doing hundreds of millions of dollars a year likely in processing cattle, let's say, for example, to produce this gelatin. Like they do not care about, you know, what's happening. happening on the gelatin side because they're totally focused on the big stuff and they just want it out of their way. So anyway, that's how the dynamic works for him. And if it was any bigger,

he would be challenged. But because it's small and they only want one vendor, like it makes his life, you know, a great niche to own. And he's done it for decades. It's super cool. So Heather, over to you. Yeah. So I agree with all of that. And I'm thinking, you know, I'm reading here that there's, they're developing blends specific to each pet treat product and that there's significant. And that there's significant technical expertise. So I'm kind of thinking there's some kind of food scientist here that and some marketing that kind of goes with that, we've got the perfect gelatin blend for what you're making over here. You know, so there's a lot. I think that's maybe the secret sauce of this business. And I'm wondering who that is. Is that an employee or is that the seller?

Because this, you know, this business has grown a lot, but that could very much, that could very well be the founder that's got that technical expertise. So I would be a little bit worried about, you know, the transition and who can step in and continue to add that value. And then I'm also kind of pointing out that it's kind of in the no man's land for financing. Always interesting because I say the no man's land is somewhere between like one and a half million EBITDA and three million of EBITDA. Right. And there is, because, become more increasingly difficult to get a bank to do it because it's a little too big, usually for SBA, particularly if this one goes for a high multiple because of the growth, I would expect

so. So it's going to be too big probably for SBA. And it's still probably too small for a lot of conventional lending. They, conventional cash flow lenders these days don't want to talk to anybody below 3 million of EBITDA, almost never. So, you know, that's going to make this one a little bit tricky as far as how it gets done. So I think this has got to be private equity, right? And the reason is private equity is they can either write a larger equity check. You know, they're not going to be a 20% down, 80% loan to value deal. Or it's an add-on.

You know, if you've got a portfolio of these ingredient suppliers or even a contract manufacturer, you're trying to vertically integrate. If it's an add-on, then you can use leverage from the, combine business, right? Or it's private equity kind of a third way is they've got relationships with lenders who like to lend on all their deals and would be willing to do a smaller deal. You know, a cash flow type private equity style lender would be willing to do a smaller deal for them in service of this deal because they're kind of catering to the whole fund's

business. So that's just another reason being a private equity fund is an advantage. That's a buyer. There's definitely like the reasons to buy this business at the type of price they're probably going to want end up being very. thesis driven. It's like, oh, we're going to roll the, you know, there's got to be dozens of these things as my hypothesis around the country. We're going to roll

them up and become a single provider for this stuff. Or we're going to, we already own the, you know, we already own the processing plants, which they're public companies now. But like, and we're going to use this as a, an extension, vertical integration for us, contract manufacturer, just like you're talking

about bills. So, yeah. So sorry, searchers. This is not the one for you. But, well, maybe maybe if you're really rich. personal tangent on this one, when I see these margins, it reminds me why I make my own dog food. Charlie gets homemade dog food and it is the highlight of his life. I can never stop making it because he just loves it so much. I love how Heather is case and point about the humanization of pets. Completely. Yes, he has his own pillow. I'm running here to year, like please keep doing

things like this. Yes. Yes, he is my child. Now that my children are in their 20s, I had. I have a new child named Charlie. So my friends had a lab, right? And they were childless. And they had a Labrador retriever who, you know the personalities of labs. They're like very, like, precocious. And they think they're very special and all this kind of stuff. And the dog was treated like a child.

Like he would get like birthday cakes and stuff. And then they had a like, then they got married. And they're in the late 30s. And the first kid showed up. And it's like now the lab is just like in the corner. Like with this like totally, his life has totally changed. babies here. Now that's the baby. Like he just goes and sits in the corner

and it's like super sad. Oh, where do I fit into this picture? Like it's pretty funny to see what happens when a child actually shows up to replace the fur child. My brother's in the hospital right now giving birth to his first child and they have a dog and that dog

has no idea what's coming. It is like the most coddled dog ever and like a week, we're all joking. Like a week after this baby they're going to be like who wants a dog? Well, because, like, Heather, your kids are grown, so now you have time to invest in the dog. To do both simultaneously is a big ask. I did both.

I did both. I had a dog before the kids. And it was a little scary, actually. I remember that bringing the baby home and just seeing how the dog would react. But he was just very protective. Like, he sort of followed what we were doing. And he became very protective and very careful. So I did it.

It was okay. But I didn't cook for that dog. now that you've mentioned it. Dry gibble only. So, Heather, you cook for your dog. Is this like you go to the grocery store and you're like cutting up rib eye? Or like, what are we doing here? Okay, I got my, here's my recipe.

It is brown rice. It is carrots or I have a garden, as I've told you before. So I've also got a butternut squash. I've got a lot of that right now. So he's getting that. He loves that. And either some kind of. green vegetables. So either broccoli or some kale. You know, I cook it and I put it through the food

processor, but all the veggies. And then I do, what I've been doing now is a ground turkey from Costco. So I can buy a lot of it. Yep. And I put a little fish oil in there at the end. There you go. I was hoping you were going to get some, some omegas. Yep, that's the, that's the secret sauce. And it's, it really is like the most important thing in his day, every day. He loves it. I believe it. That sounds like like the best dog or the. best meal any dog is eating. It's good stuff. According to him, I don't eat it. I bet it would be good if you ate it too. I mean, all those ingredients are good. Yeah, on their own. Healthy. Yeah. But you're not buying your ingredients. You're not adding any gelatin, I noticed. No problem.

I was, I know, but I was thinking that. And, you know, I might check that out now. Well, speaking of which, any, anything else about this deal? Thoughts? I like it. I think this, I mean, it looks, gets grown from 6.2 million in sales, 8.2 million in sales, over two years, it's in a market with tailwinds. If it has a defensible spot in the value chain, I like this business. The margins are very good. The margins are expanding from 22% EBITDA in 2021 to 30% EBITDA in 2023. I imagine this is probably just due to incredible demand in the market and just everybody has pricing power right now. So I don't know that that's permanent. You know, when markets boom, right, lots of brands rush in. People are willing to, people are

making super normal margins, and then it's all sort of shakes out, profitability becomes important, you know, after the land grab is over and margins tend to compress. So when that happens in pet, I don't know. But, you know, I wouldn't overpay for this business, but it seems like a good one to look harder at. I mean, what do you think it's going to trade for? Six, six or seven times 23, maybe higher. It could be. Yeah, it could. I mean, I think private equity would pay six times for this for sure. Yeah, six times 2023 would be

15 million, is that right? Almost two times revenue for a contract for a VAR. Like, yeah, that's good money if you can get it. If it were not in pet, I think it would trade significantly lower for what that's worth. Human food. Yeah, I'm with you

on that and it does worry me a little bit what you said like, is this permanent, this pricing power? You know, at some point do people become a little more price sensitive about their their pet treats and food. So it feels a little bit like a company that's writing a wave and you just don't know where the wave, you know, starts to die down. So that's, I agree. That's probably what it'll go for. I don't think I would pay that. Well, look, let me tell you how this work, guys. And Bill is a former

investment banker. He knows if you want to get a deal to pencil, all you got to do is just go into your financial model and change the annual growth rate for the next 10 years from 15% to 20% and every deal will underwrite. It's just magic. If you just, You have 20% and your margin stay consistent, every deal will work. And that's the entire business model of private equity. So, yay. The whole business model of private equity is doing that and then trying to convince your lender you're not full of shit.

Right. And the entire lender business model is to say, you guys are full of shit. And not take that growth rate back down. Exactly. Speaking of lenders, we have like a celebration. It's like, it's like closing day for Heather, right? Like, so congratulations, Heather for. for your business taking off like a rocket.

Yeah. Yeah, we're super excited and heading into Q4 with lots of closings after that one. So super excited. And I mean, you know, the small business acquisition market continues to grow, continues to boom, despite rates and everything else. I see lots of good deals in my inbox just about every day. New signed LOIs. Amazing.

Awesome. It's very cool. I mean, Heather, I've sent a couple of people to you that were looking for deals. and like they get back to me and they're like, yeah, Heather put, you know, putting in touch with several banks. Like the terms are good. Like we're rocking and rolling. It's just been so cool.

I mean, obviously you've been closing loans for 20 years, you know, and you're, so this is not new for you, but it's so cool to see you do it like, you know, in your own business and just set them up and knock them down. It's great to see. Yeah. It is, it is a really, it is very much the same, but also very different than what I've done in the past. And I'm loving it.

It is just so fun. So if you are out there and you need an SBA loan, or a non-SBA loan, but especially if you need an SBA loan, call Heather. Adviso, she will take care of you. Yeah, please. Please do.

And I still have my Zoom session, so I have those every two weeks. If you're pre-L-OI, you're just shopping, you want to, you know, know how this all works. Check me out on LinkedIn or Twitter and I'll send you a link, registration link to my Zoom sessions.

Which are free. And I'll acknowledge if you've never attended one. It's like a live podcast with Heather. It's pretty cool. It is. And you can now. ask me questions and try to stump me. You know, that would be fun.

It's good. There you go. All right. Well, we will put this Axial deal in the show notes and stuff as best we can. I know all the actual stuff is a moderated marketplace. So I think we've been putting them in there. But this is a good one. And yeah, definitely check out Axial.

If you want to look at deals that don't look like your typical neighborhood like bar and grill and or like a wedding venue, which is a lot of what's on Bizby, sell. Our future, our future advertiser. We look forward to them someday. One day. We love you, Biz Buy Sell. Come advertise with us. 100%. Yeah. And if you would like to advertise on the pod, give us a hauler. We are pretty good at taking your money and then talking about your business. And yeah, anyway, I could go out about advertising. But if you want to advertise with this, call us. Anyway, anything else about the deal or other than that, I think we're good on this one.

Let's wrap it up. Happy Friday. Good. y'all. It's evening.