Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - Crumbl Cookie: A Sweet Investment or Fading Fad?

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

In this episode, we explore the sale of two Crumbl Cookie franchises in Washington, discussing their performance, valuation, and the potential challenges of owning trendy food franchises.Business Listing: https://www.bizbuysell.com/Business-Opportunity/two-high-performing-crumbl-stores-in-western-wa/2308592/Sponsors:Acquisition Lab: Looking to buy a business? Start with Acquisition Lab's proven framework and support community. Visit Acquisition Lab or email Chelsea Wood at [e-mail] Business Capital: Get tailored SBA loan solutions for your acquisition needs. Learn more at Viso Cap and sign up for a free Q&A session.This episode dives into the details of two Crumbl Cookie franchises for sale in Thurston County, Washington. Hosts discuss Crumbl's rise as a top food franchise, the financials of these specific stores, and whether they present a good investment opportunity. The conversation also touches on the broader franchise industry, the challenges of trendy food businesses, and factors to consider before buying into the Crumbl franchise model.Key Highlights:Overview of Crumbl Cookies and its rapid growth.Financial performance of the franchises and their projected earnings.Discussion on valuation multiples for small franchises.Insights into franchisee limitations and market trends.Long-term viability of Crumbl compared to similar food concepts.Subscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Do we all decide that 800 calorie cookies are not a good idea? I feel like that could happen with this one. But I think if I'm the owner, that's what I'd be worried about. That's why I would consider selling is I don't know how long this ride is going to last. So I wonder if Crumble is one of those ones where they limit the number of stores you can own? Because that's our fundamental question. Like, why is this on Bizby-Sill? Hello, another episode of Acquisition Anonymous.

Hello, another episode of Acquisition Anonymous. We don't have 100% here. Hey, Michael here. Welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous, the internet's number one podcast about buying, selling, and investing in small businesses. Today, we looked at a deal that we liked, and we're also super curious about. It was two crumble franchises out in the excerpts of Seattle. And we were trying to figure out why they're for sale. So I think we figured it out, but see what you think. And here's the episode. This episode of Acquisitions Anonymous is sponsored by Acquisition Lab. Acquisition Lab and their team. They've been a long time. supporters of the pod and they provide a really great service for people who are looking to acquire a business. So it's created by Walker Dival, who's become a friend, the author of Buy, then Build, how to outsmart the startup game. So Acquisition Labs is an accelerator with a highly vetted, cohort-based educational and support community for people who are serious about buying

a business. So a lot of our listeners like you, you tune in every week to our deal reviews, you want to get in on buying a business. You know, you're on this podcast because you're trying to learn how to buy a business. But if you're not quite sure where to start, Acquisition Lab is a great place to start. So they exist to help people buy a business and to navigate all those complexities of the process, everything you hear us talking about on the show. They provide a proven framework, tools and resources that support you all the way from search to close. They do it. There's a whole bunch of educational material and support. So if you're serious about buying a business, check out AcquisitionLab.com or you can actually email the program director, Chelsea Wood, directly,

Her email is Chelsea at buy then build.com. All right. So today we're trying an experiment, Heather. By the way, it's just you and me. And we are live streaming to our Equestonsonit Twitch account, our Twitter account, and our Acquisitioner's Anonymous YouTube account. So so far we have exactly zero viewers.

So it's going great. Okay. So it doesn't matter how I look. I hear I did my hair, you know, for nobody. Okay. Well, people are going to watch it. So we'll see what happens. Okay. Well, cool. How are the end of year closings going? Are you ready to strangle anybody?

No, I have not needed to strangle anyone today. Everyone's been on their best behavior, trying their hardest to get their deals done and wrangled through. But still in the heat of it. You know, it's only the 10th of December. We still have a few days left to try to get some deals closed. So it's pretty intense. Yeah. Well, congratulations on a great year. And best of luck. Thank you. You know what I'm excited about? out for people to start getting my corporate gift. I don't want to give the surprise away yet, though. So I'll show you guys what it is after a few people get it. But I'm like, I picked out

something cool this year. Am I on the list? I'm not sure. Heather, Heather. Oh my gosh. It's for customers. You got a loan with us. You have to get alone with us. Oh, you're going to borrow money. As long as I'd have to pay it back, I will be cool with it. Well, you'd have to pay it back, too. So it's a small, small token of our appreciation to our customers, but it's a really cool gift this year. I'm not interested. All right. Let me put you on this deal, you know, because it's you and me, and we're so sweet, both of us. And this is a listing off of Biz by Sell, which I found super fascinating that this showed up on Bizby Sell. because it is listed as two high-performing Crumble stores located in Western Washington,

specifically Thurston County, Washington. And for those of you not familiar, Crumble is a, would you say it's like one of the hottest franchises to come out the past five years? Yeah, I would say so, definitely. People have gone nuts for this. And basically what it is, if you're not familiar with Crumble, it's basically just like an over-the-top cookie store. and you can get cookies that are like a thousand calorie chocolate chip cookies. Yes, right.

They take flak because I don't know if they still do this, but they used to list their calorie count like for one seventh of the cookie. Yeah. So that you'd think it was like, oh, that's not too bad. And you add it up and you're like, oh, my gosh, it's 800 calories. Yeah. And if you're doing the math at home, I call this the Anthony de Bourdain rule, which is like, if you're like, how can one cookie,

be 40% of your daily, you know, recommended number of calories by the art, you know, recommended daily allowance. It's because it's all butter. And I don't know if you, did you ever read Anthony Bourdain's book, Kitchen Confidential? No, but I watched his show. I really liked him. Man, I, you know, we have very much a parisocial relationship. He doesn't know me.

He never did. But there are so many people that felt like a personal, you know, a personal connection to him. And I definitely had that where I was just like when he died like there's rarely do celebrities. Are they like, man, I mourn that guy going. And I definitely did with him. I agree. Anyway, so it is book Kitchen Confidential. He talks about why restaurant food tastes so good.

And do you know why restaurant food tastes so good in the food at your house does not taste as good? Is it butter and sugar? It is butter. Oh, just butter. So he's got this great chapter. He's like, let me tell you idiots why restaurant food tastes better than the food you make at your house. And he's like, you know how you like spinach at the restaurant, but you don't like it at home? Butter. You know how that steak tastes really good, but it doesn't

taste as good at home? It's not the better meat. It's butter. You know, you know how your shrimp tastes better at, you know, the restaurant? Like, everything is butter, butter, butter, butter. You know how your salad tastes better? Butter. Like, we put butter in everything. So to sum it up, like, you basically have to do that in order to, you know, reach this crumble level of unhealthiness, butter and everything. I have still never tried a crumble cookie. And we do have one near us, but I just can't, I can't think

of why I would ever eat that cookie. I had one once, and I need to take a nap afterwards. Yeah, like I think, I know I would feel bad in a lot of ways. Yeah, I'm good. All right, so let me tell you about these for sale. It's really interesting because crumble has been

one of the most, I would say, contentious of all of the franchise systems with people thinking it's a fad and kind of go the way orange leaf did and all those different kind of froyo things and then other people thinking it's a brand new category that's here to stay. So let's see if we can learn something about it from this teaser. So the asking price for this deal is $1.85 million. Cash flow is $463,000. Gross revenue is just shy of two million dollars. So they're selling a million dollars for the cookies in each one of these little shops. And they're typically in strip centers. I don't know how the one by you is. Yeah, it is. So the franchise he here got established in 2022 and earned exits business burgers

presents an exclusive opportunity to acquire two crumble cookies locations at Western Washington State. The first store opened in 2022 and did phenomenally well leading the state in sales. The second location opened in May 24 and has been highly profitable. There are a thousand Crumble locations, thousand plus crumple locations in the USA, and 100% of the franchisees are sold out. Crumple offers cookies in a way that can't be found anywhere else. With a weekly rotating menu, open concept kitchens, and a famously recognizable pink box, Crumbull is revolution in the gourmet dessert experience. Since opening its door five years ago, Crumbull has expanded to over a thousand bakeries in 50 states, make it the fastest growing cooking cup of the United States.

The normalized seller discretionary earnings is $463,000, 1.9,000. $99 million normalized revenue for both stores. Crumble stores, here there's an asterisk. Crumble stores generally perform at exceptional levers during the first few months of opening. We have normalized the revenue earnings to account for what sales should look like going forward. So it looks like one of their locations is like brand new. Yeah, May. Right.

And they've sort of taken a few months and projected out what they think the whole year will be. Yeah. So this is maybe the first time we've ever looked at a projection from a seller where they take the trailing three months and they're like, no, no, the next nine months is going to be lower. Like, I've never seen a seller say that. It was going to happen. Well, I guess they're being honest, a brand new store opening, they know that there's sort of a spike and then there's a flattening and I guess they're being honest about that.

But with this being, you know, such a hot franchise, such a hot concept, you know, why are they selling? And like, to your point earlier, why are they selling on biz by sell? Why isn't there somebody within the crumble? franchisee group that already that would want to pick this up if they're doing well. Yeah. So the reason they claim to sell here is the reason for selling is the owners are relocating and are not interested in running the stores remotely.

So that's their idea. But they're making a half million dollars from these stores and they're moving away from them, which, okay, cool. Yeah. I think, I think any hot food concept. goes through, you know, an interesting trajectory, right? There's this great growth period, and then there's a cooling off, and then you kind of don't know what happens after that. Does it lose favor? Does something else come in? Do we all decide that 800 calorie cookies

are not a good idea? I feel like that could happen with this one. But I think if I'm the owner, that's what I'd be worried about. That's why I would consider selling is I don't know how long this ride is going to last. Yeah, and they say Thurston County, and they have two stores. And it turns out Thurston County is down in Olympia, Washington, which is kind of, if you know Seattle, right, it's Seattle, and then you work your way south to Tacoma. And then Olympia is just further south before kind of civilization ends. It's the last of kind of the excerpts of Seattle that's down this way. And it looks like they have a store in Lacey, which is the next town over, and then Olympia.

And it's about a, it's an MSA of about a quarter million people. Okay. So it's probably, can't grow too much, you know, it's probably found its market. And it's probably going to stabilize a little bit around where it is or even lower. If, like, again, if the concept loses favor. I've read about these on social media, always having these huge lines out the door. And I will tell you, the one near me, I don't think I ever saw. line. Yeah, I never had that kind of popularity. It's just kind of there. And, you know, I'm sure it does

okay. But I think there are certain locations where there's just a lot of excitement. Maybe there's nothing similar around or I don't know how they do it, but they, they do get, you know, very big openings, I think, these stores. Yep. One cookie. I pulled up their menu for this location. Guess how much of one cookie is. Is it $4? $5. Oh, five for a cookie.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of calories. I mean, you're paying for $5. You're basically paying. It's like a little cake. Yeah.

0.4 cents a cookie or a gallery. Yeah. These guys, look, they've got pictures with crowds. You know, there's no joke here. Mm-hmm.

Look at this cookie. Whoa. Yeah. The whole box. The box is one, yeah, the cookie fills up the entire box. It's, they're huge. I know my kids like them, and they keep telling me to try them. I'm like, no way, not unless you're eating most of it.

You're just giving me a tiny taste. I don't want you to put one of those in front of me because I would eat it. And I don't want to. Yeah, man, they have a lot of photos. I mean, something I will say positively about these stores, you look up the reviews. The first store, which looks like the Slacey store, has 1,300 reviews since it opened three years ago. substantial and i can click on this but most do not look like they're fake yeah and then this the olympia one appears to be new

well if you know kind of picture i can't pull it up i don't think i'm allowed to pull it up right now but um i have access to lumos data which takes the sba data and puts it in a usable you know tables and basically they use tablo to do that and you can look up franchise concepts. So you can look up and you could see how many crumbles franchisees have received an SBA loan and how they're performing where they are, what banks have done them. So, I mean, that's probably if I'm considering buying something like this, that's the first kind of data set. It's independent of the franchisor. You know, there's a data set of, yes, it's only going to capture those franchisees who've used debt, but it will give you a pretty

good idea. Are they at least performing on their debt? Have there been any defaults? That's kind of the first thing, of course, I think of as a lender is how to how can we use that publicly available SBA data to tell us something about this concept. Hi, Heather here. When I'm not breaking down deals with these guys, I'm helping people get the right SBA loans for their business acquisitions. Because when you're buying a business, the best financing isn't one size fits all. There's the best rate, fastest to close, the specific loan structure that you need, or a little of all of those things. That's why my company, Vizzo Business Capital, works with over 30 different lenders to find you the best funding in less time and with less friction so you can focus on the deal.

Sign up for a free live Q&A session on SBA loans at VisoCAP.net. Then click Zoom signup in the top right corner. That's V-I-S-O-C-A-P.net and click Zoom sign up. Yeah, it's such a good data point. That's through Lubos, you said? LumosData.com. They are also former live ochre people like myself. And their business is to basically take all that great data from SBA and put it in a usable format. They also create some data products for banks to assess risk, you know, how risky is this loan. And they use that data plus some AI.

And it's fantastic. And, you know, when you look at data in this country on small businesses, we don't have good data. That's one of the problems for buyers. One of the best data sets there is is the publicly available SBA data. But before LUMOS, you had to go Freedom of Information Act, request it, and get this giant database and, you know, have the skills to kind of parse through that, which most people don't have those skills. I don't. So Lumos makes the data very approachable and usable and, you know, lets people kind of really explore and understand what's going on with those loans.

That's why we always have a debate on Twitter as to whether all the SBA business acquisition buyers are about to default on their loan or not. Because some people just decide they think that they all, you know, they must be terrible and then we look at the Lumos data and it's not that bad. But at least we have real data. And outside of the SBA loan program, we don't have data. You know? Twitter is such a morbid place sometimes.

It is. It's crazy. Super interesting. Well, to transition a little bit back to this deal, they do have a teaser, and I pulled it up here on the screen, which is actually a pretty good-looking teaser. And they made a team. It makes me hungry looking at it. Yeah. What's that?

It makes me hungry looking at it. Oh. Yeah, I mean, if you need to gain a couple pounds, this is a way to go. I do not. But yeah, they have a cute little teaser put together. So kudos to Britt, right? I think a lot of these brokers do so little work in terms of like actually what you're supposed to do as a broker, which is help present the deal well, right?

That's 90% of what you do. You know, 90% of it is present the deal well and the other 10% is like marriage counseling to make the deal happen, right? Right. Like, that's great. So from a price standpoint, let me get your feedback on this, Heather. They're asking for $2 million, normalized revenue and $460,000 in normalized SDE. So again, this is not actual.

So that's something for us to consider about. But at first glance, that's 5X SDE. How do you feel about that? Too high. Too high for something that we don't know how it will truly stabilize. And it's too small for a 5X. Oh, I'm sorry. Hold on. I misquoted you. It's not 5x. Maybe it is 5x. So what's one point, the asking price is 1.85 million. Divided by 463, right? Divided by, yeah. No, it's like, yeah. Oh, it's four times earnings. Okay. Is that changed your price? Yeah, well, thank you for the discount. Yes, that's that is better. Yeah, 4x is better. I, my, my school of thought on multiples is anything below, you know,

a million and a half of EBITDA around there is going to should be between a three and a four. That's almost everything is going to fall somewhere between a three and a four. How close to four, if it's close to a four, it should be have some really good qualities, some really good things that I can rely on. It's going to be pretty stable or has a lot of growth potential. Why I go closer to a three is it lacks some of those things. You know, it's going to be harder to grow. It's going to be, you know, it has more cyclicality or volatility that's potential within it.

And then I move closer to a three. So to me, four even seems a little high. Like I'd probably be, you know, at least three and a half, you know, somewhere closer to three. My question, though, and I don't know the answer is, like, what does it cost to open the doors to these two franchises? You know, how much over cost is this million $8.50? That is very interesting. Well, number one, your buildout is mostly all just some costs because it's equipment and do a lease space with, yeah, maybe you got some stuff with the landlord as a deal here. But, you know, at least looking at both of these there in Strip Center somewhere.

So there's no real estate, no fixed assets really to speak of that are going to be much of anything. It's the franchise fee, the training, yeah. Yeah, your franchise fee. we could look up the FDD, the franchise disclosure document. Because I feel like, I don't know, I'm guessing, but I feel like this is, they probably cost three to 500,000 a store to open. Right. You know, and they're, so let's, if it's closer to the five, that's, you know,

cost them a million dollars to open. They want to sell for a million 850. They're not going to be netting that much. And they've been, you know, they haven't had that long, but they were making good money if they held on to it, you know, they could, they could kind of make more than that in just two or three years. That's, that's sort of the valuation question that I have is how much are they netting and couldn't they just, couldn't they just keep owning these and make more than that in a pretty short period of time? Yeah, they did say the owners are not interested in running it

remotely and they have to move away. It would not surprise me if the real story here is these guys were brought to the area by this Air Force base. I noticed there's an Air Force base right over here. Yeah. Fort Lewis, Joint Base Lewis McCord. And this McCord Air Force Base, they happened to be here for that. And they did this as a side hustle. And then instead of somebody getting out of the Air Force, next thing you know, they're back,

you know, getting deployed someplace else. Or there's family or something like that going on. But yeah, that's what they said. want to run it remotely, which, you know, I think, I think that makes sense for this type of business. Yeah, for retail business. That would be tough to do. All right. Well, so fair enough. So there's a good reason to sell. And yeah, I don't know that I'd pay for it. I think I'd pay closer to a three just because I don't know what's going to happen to demand in the future. And it's not a very big MSA, you know, and like you said, it's not like in the growth area of the state.

I don't believe. I could be wrong about that as well. But if the area is not growing, you know, that would also factor a lot into my, you know, thoughts about valuation. It's interesting.

I just went to the Crumbull website for franchising, and they have where you can buy an operational location. Like they're helping people connect to the existing franchises. So I wonder if Crumble is one of those ones where they limit the number of, of stores you can own as a franchisee. Because some of the folks do that, right? Yeah, they don't want you to get too big in the system. Correct.

Well, they don't want multi-unit operators, right? So you have single unit operators, which is kind of what subway is, right? You have your one subway and you better get your ass in there and make some sandwiches, bro. And then you have multi-unit operators, which are people who are specialists at going and running 10, 15, 20, 100 Taco Bells. and each franchise system kind of decides what they want to do. So these guys may have a limitation and that may be why this is for sale publicly. Because that's our fundamental question.

Like, why is this on business by sale? Good point. If that's the type of system that they're limiting and you're not allowed to own more than, say, three or whatever it may be, then there aren't any existing or very many existing franchisees that could buy this or they're too far away if they only own one store kind of thing. that makes sense. And I have seen other listings for Crumbull. So that is a good question. And that would make sense if that's the way they're approaching it. I know when I worked for a larger

bank a long time ago, we had a big franchise lending group. And they absolutely wouldn't lend to franchisees unless they had at least four to five stores. It was only for bigger operators. from a lending perspective, that was the only way they could sort of justify it. Yeah. Well, we looked at when we had our coffee chain, and in retrospect, we thought, we thought, we thought we were early to Texas. It turns out we were just late to the rest of the market around the country, because Dutch brothers came in with $50 million to set up a bunch of stores right next door to us.

And it's like, oh, and they're going to sell the exact same stuff and exact same everything. But early on, we were like, well, should we take this concept, which was, working really well. We had people contacting us and saying, hey, I want to open at the time a Toro coffee. And then we changed the name. But anyway, don't worry about that part. But they were contacting us. We want to open one. Can we franchise it? And we went and actually talked to franchise consultants to try to understand how to set up a franchise system. And one of the things they told us is you should think about whether you want to focus on multi-unit operators or single-unit operators because they're two different groups of people.

Different animal. And you tend not to do both. You tend to pick that one and you optimize for that because the multi-unit operator guys and gals are much more professional than the single unit operators. So you build your franchise system totally different for them. Interesting. Well, that makes sense. That's something I never really thought about. But thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Turns out you try a lot of businesses and so work out. Well, you learn a lot from the ones a dough. You learn a ton, right? That's why I'm just stretchy. Yeah. All right.

So, okay, so let me ask you this. At the right price, would you buy these crumbles? At the right price, there's a lot of things I would buy. So,

yes, yes. Okay, how about, okay, so right now it's $1.8 million. Would you buy these for a million? Two times earnings.

Maybe. I might. Yeah. Okay, I think I'm a buyer there. I buy them for that. Would you buy it for $1.25? No,

would you buy them for $750? Oh, yes. Yes, yes, I'm buying them then. So one and a half times. We know your buyer at one and a half times. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So let me ask you this. In one end of the spectrum, you have franchise systems like McDonald's, which are evergreen. They're going to be great. You don't have to worry about McDonald's, right? The other end of the spectrum, you have things like curves, right? If you move through curves franchise, they're dying. Yep.

Terminal, you know, at one point, they were super popular, but they're dead. Yeah. Which direction do you think? is going. Is this going to be orange theory or is it going to be orange leaf? I think it's going to be around long term. It's kind of like a replacement to the donut shop, you know, something a little different. But I think that they will have a period where, you know, they will stabilize a bit lower than where they are today. The demand will wane a bit. Yeah. I will put the, I'm very, I'm very optimistic about crumbull. And I think I'm very optimistic about crumbull. And I think I'm very optimistic about

crumble because I believe their pitch. And their pitch is actually, they are a social community and a tech-enabled cookie shop that has actually truly created a legion of fans that have their things that they really like about them. Kind of like an out burger has done. You know, everybody has their own like in-and-out order. Yes. What's your in-and-out?

Do you have an in-out order? I just like the plain cheeseburger. Just one patty cheese, grilled onions. That's about the only thing. Just grill the onions. And otherwise, I'm good. But yes, there's the animal style and there's, you know, the kids, I guess, you know, the young men in the family are the ones that do all the crazy stuff. Yeah.

So everybody has there. So but there's a community around In and Out Burger. So would you like to hear a funny In and Out Burger story? Yes. Okay. So at the LAX airport, I would highly recommend this if you go to the LAX Airport, there's an In and Out Burger, which is like one of the world's most famous spots for plane watching. like 747s and Airbus 380s like land over your head. It's pretty spectacular.

And it is at the it is at the In-N-Out Burger on Sepulveda. So my wife and I were staying out in L.A. We're getting a 40-minute Uber ride to go three miles to get to the In-N-Out Burger in Sepulveda. And I put it into the Uber and we're like driving down to the airport and the Uber just keeps going. Like right into LAX. And I'm like, what that is going on? And I looked down at my phone.

And by this point, like, like, I'm getting car sick because everybody, every Uber driver is like a Russian dude that drives like a maniac and has just been vaping right before they picked you up. Oh, yeah. And, and I realized I had him go to the in-out burger on Sepulvita south of the airport. So we went to throw a freaking outburger. And I could watch airplanes. It's horrible. Well, I will tell you another story. John Wayne Airport, Orange County, the little one.

the landing it lands right over the freeway you know they just cross over the 405 and they dip down and i had a car a long time ago with a sunroof and i had the sunroof open i'm driving down the 405 listening to my radio and a plane came over my car to land and it scared me half to death the sound it was so like suddenly loud that i thought a plane was crashing on me yeah so i don't recommend being that close to planes. It's scary. I don't know. It was super fun. Super cool. All right. Well, look, I'm a believer in Crumble. It sounds like you are lukewarm. Look warm. Yes. All right. Well, I think in America,

there is an inexhaustible supply of people that want you to serve them fat and sugar and salt in massive quantities and they're not going anywhere. Unless everybody gets on an ozimic. Which they are. So maybe, I don't know. We'll see. The government's going to start paying for Ozympic. So let's see what happens then.

Crumble will have to change their menu. Oh, I was going to ask you about something. Okay, we're doing this deal. If you want to get off, we're done with this deal. I want to ask Heather about something. Have you seen how all of these celebrities like Demi Moore and a number of these ladies have just like who had gone way over, that Christina Aguilera had gone way over the top with their,

with their plastic surgery, basically to the point of just like almost being unrecognizable. And like some surgeon has come through and fixed all of these ladies. Like they restored them to like factory pristine. Have you seen these guys? I have. And people are chattering about like there are certain, there are certain surgeons and centers in usually Beverly Hills

that are in super high demand. because they've made a name for themselves. They're being just, like, amazing. But yeah, they figured out something. I don't know what it is. Yeah. And what's the name of the young? There's the young lady who,

I guess she's in her 40s now, but she was like a child star. Who's that? Lindsay Lohan. Lindsay Lohan. She's not that old, but she does look suddenly much better. So people are speculating.

Yeah. Yeah. So the one that will be interesting to see if they can restore it a factory setting. things is Madonna. Oh. I don't think so. That's out there.

Yeah, I don't know. I feel rough about what she's done. Yeah, I think they went too far. She doesn't look like Madonna anymore. I don't know what she looks like. But yes, the, but they're, you know,

the whole plastic surgery end of things in Los Angeles has always been a big deal. But yeah, they've, they've come up with some new ways to do things and new techniques and combinations of techniques that look like they're pretty good. Whatever they're doing, it's working. Anyway, I just found it fascinating. Tick-Tock shows you some stuff. We'll see what happens with my life after this.

All right, everybody, thanks for joining today. We're going to turn off a live stream. Heather, happy Monday. And after this, Heather and I're going to talk about whether we're recording a second of an episode today. Look at it at Heather's face. I think we're not. She looks tired. I am. Tired of me. I'm tired. All right. Catch you next week. Oh, sign up for our newsletter. You heathens, acu-unad.com. Make us happy. Thanks.