Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - Girdley runs to a $12mm live event company - Acquisitions Anonymous 226

Episode Date: September 8, 2023

In episode 226, Acquisition's Anonymous features John Wilson (@WilsonCompanies) as a special guest. He joins Heather (@EndresenHeather) and Michael (@girdley) in discussing a sports and event management company that generates around $12 million in annual revenue, known for organizing events like Tough Mudder. The episode explores the business's dynamics and potential challenges, such as venue costs. You'll also hear about John and some awesome things going on in his world. Today's deal comes from Axial.  Axial is a trusted deal-sourcing platform serving professional acquirers in the American lower middle market.Axial partners with over 2,000 boutique investment bankers and business brokers who use the Axial platform for marketing their deals to lower-middle market acquirers.Thanks to today's Sponsors!HoldCoConference, the conference exclusively focused on HoldCo Entrepreneurs and Executives. This conference is where Holding Companies meet, learn, scale and grow. From tech to Home Services, Holdco Entrepreneurs from around the globe will be meeting in Cleveland this September 18-20th in Cleveland Ohio.Check out holdcoconf.com for more details.-----------------CloudBookkeeping offers adaptable solutions to businesses that want to focus on growth with a “client service first” approach. They offer a full suite of accounting services, including sophisticated reporting, QuickBooks software solutions, and full-service payroll options.Subscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Hey, welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous Internet's number one podcast about buying, owning, operating, and selling small businesses. Today, we had a fun episode, special guest, John Wilson, of Twitter fame and Wilson companies joined us. And we talked about something he has no expertise in, which is a sports management and event management company doing about 12 million a year in revenue that puts on a lot of those big events you see, like tough mutter and stuff like that. That was the best we could figure out these guys do. and it's a really interesting as we dig into the business and figure it out very quickly what we do know about this space and what we don't know.

So I had a ton of fun with John and here is the episode. This episode is sponsored by the Holdco conference. This is a conference exclusively focused on holding company entrepreneurs and their executives. It is where holding companies meet, learn, and scale, and grow.

From tech to home services, Holdco entrepreneurs from around the globe will be meeting in Cleveland this September 18th to the 20th, 2023, and it will be there in Cleveland, Ohio, which has me super excited, also because I will be one of the speakers and attendees of the conference as well. So I encourage you to check out their website and consider joining us there. The website is holdcocomf.com. That's h-o-l-d-c-o-c-n-f.com. And get more details there and sign up to join us. See you soon. All right, good news, Heather.

We traded out Mills for somebody even better. excited. We got John. John, we're so stoked to your hair, and I'm glad we put the sock thing to bed because I've been just imagining how your shoes smell, but it turns out you kind of wear something similar to socks, which I refer to as lightweight booties on your feet to provide that barrier between your foot and your shoe. So it's huge. I'm good with that reference. And honestly, I'm just glad we put it to bed. It's been concerning you a lot. You've been responding to tweets. So I'm glad we I'm glad we solved this. I don't know.

Maybe I should keep going, but we're in socks. Like, you do you. My ankles seem to fascinate thousands of people. Yeah, maybe only fans is where you should go after this. It goes acquisition, a lot of us only face. Okay. So you have something to promote. So we definitely want to talk about that.

And then we have a cool deal to talk about that is totally out of your wheelhouse. So it's going to make for great radio. But let's talk about what you got going on. Well, the big thing we have going on right now is we have HoldcoConf coming up in, I just realized that we're four weeks away as day of recording, which is wild. So there's still a lot to get done, but we're excited. So this is our second year of doing Holdco Conf.

So last year we had about 120 butts in seats. So we're expecting a little bit of a larger crowd than that, and we're really excited about that. And it's a place where holding companies come and meet and get to learn best practices, and we have some awesome speakers. So, you know, Michael here is coming to speak. We have Cieva coming to speak. We've got a whole list of awesome speakers up on the website, so people should check it out. HoldcoConf.com.com. So you have, I saw Mark Brooks from Permanent Equity's coming. Yep. And I don't know if you know this. Thomas, yes. Yep. Well, I was going to tell you, Mark Brooks from

permanent equity is our second most popular episode of all time. If you don't count the one that a bot has been downloading nonstop for the past nine months. We have one that a bot has been downloading for nightways. We can't figure out why. But it's the number two behind that one. Oh, my gosh. Well, yeah, Mark's great. Mark's great.

And I think criminally underfollowed on Twitter. You know, he's constantly dropping great stuff and he just doesn't have the following he should. Is that your way of saying I'm criminally over followed? I wasn't going to say it, but you got there. All right. And so how can people find out more about Holdco Conference? Yeah, so check out holdcoconf.com or follow me on Twitter.

I'm talking about it a lot or at HoldcoConf, the Twitter handle. And my Twitter handle is at Wilson Companies. Super cool. And then so before we dig into the deal, we have a sports event management company that I found. We got it off of Axial, which is our new favorite place to find bigger deals. but maybe take a minute. This is your second appearance on the show. Tell everybody a little bit about your background

and they'll understand where you're coming from. So this is my third. And I, every time I come on here, I'm like, I feel like I might be the most repeated guest. Like, I think I got a good thing going here. So I'm in Northeast Ohio. I'm in Akron, Cleveland. And what I do is I buy home service companies

and we build home service companies. So over the past seven, years since I started. We bought nine and we've launched four, all here in my neck of the woods, Akron and Cleveland. So the team's about 130 people strong now. We're in the tens of millions of revenue, so mid-20s. And we're consistently growing and we're in a fun stage right now of just integrating and trying to drive best practices. And I think I'm known most for our acquisitions because I've talked about it pretty publicly. But right now we've been in a pause and we've really been just working on organic because we're driving so much organic growth.

So that's been a lot of fun. So we're in a fun stage right now. But that's me. And you said on Twitter that you've been really boring lately because you stopped drinking. Yeah. So I did 75 hard. Have you ever done that? Yes.

Okay. Well, not that exact one. I've done similar stuff. So, go ahead. So I did 75 hard back in, I started it in March. And I don't really know why. I don't know why. But, you know, the 75 hard thing is you work out twice a day.

You don't drink alcohol. You have to drink a gallon of water to read 10 pages of a nonfiction book. And I know I'm forgetting one other thing. And I don't remember what it is. But, yeah, so I started doing that in March. And the problem is after the first week of not drinking alcohol, it's sort of like out of your system. Or at least it was for me. I've talked to different people and they've had different experiences.

But my sleep got way better. Like my light, you know, I don't think I was a raging alcoholic previously. But like it was just a positive thing in my life. So then I finished up 75 hard like 90 days ago. And I've just been very scared to add that back in. So I've talked to other people that did 75 hard. And it's sort of like a moment because you just didn't drink for two and a half months. So they're sort of like a, is today going to be the day?

So I ultimately decided I was just going to avoid alcohol for the rest of 2023. So I'm going through the end of the year and I'll see what ends up happening. As of today, it's been 160 days since I've been fun. I think you're plenty of fun. You're still fun. You're still fun. Thanks, guys.

Super cool. Okay, well, I will read the deal and then we're going to talk about it. It sounds pretty cool. I don't think we've ever done anything like this. Heather, do you know if we've done anything? anything like this? Well, I haven't even shown you what it is. Yeah, so I do not know the answer to that.

Yeah, our recent routine, John, is I like research for a half an hour before and find like a couple of deals, then I show up, but I'm like, we got to do this one. And everybody else seems to go with it. So, all right, I pull it up on the screen. It's from our friends at Axial. We definitely, Bill and I love looking at bigger deals.

And this is like the one place you can go above and beyond biz by sell and like see real deal. listed by serious brokers. And I think we're going to record a second episode with you after this one, John, that is much less professional than this one. So that's why I love Axial because it's like a different, it's like a different world.

So this one is titled iconic sports events management company that seeks to be acquired. The client is an event management company that promotes three distinct and proprietary products, two of which are hosted at iconic venues, including Major League Baseball, NFL, and Major League Soccer Stadiums throughout the United States. Over the last 10 years, the company has established itself as the industry leader while establishing a brand recognition that is sought after by stadiums across the country. The company offers two separate and unique sporting activities in the golf and running industries. Both are held across the United States and most major markets. The stadium events are open to the general

public and attended via pre-registration requiring little cash at L.A. to promote. The use of subcontracted labor for the events allows the company to be nimble and very profitable. In a separate but complimentary offering, the company hosts the largest virtual running event in the United States. All brands support charitable causes and provide additional incentives for participation. The company expects revenues of 12 million with an EBIT of 2.7 million for fiscal 2023. I'm going to go into the historical numbers here, but do we understand what these guys do? Is it clear reading this? I feel like it's sort of, like I'm reading this as like a Spartan race or something like that.

Have you ever done that? Or like a CrossFit Games type of thing? I know the tough mutter. I don't know how big they are, but I know that they tend to host a ton of their stuff inside stadiums throughout the U.S. Because it's just the easiest place to find it, and then they set up all the obstacles sort of around it.

But I did a Spartan a couple years ago, and it was in the middle of a cornfield and woods. I used to do those tough mutter and stuff like that when I was younger, and I hadn't realized I hate running so much. So I don't do them anymore. Heather, have those been part of your career as an athlete? I have done a couple of half marathons, as is it. I do not do mud and things like that, other than on a horse.

Then I'm good with mud if it's on a horse, but not. I ran cross-country in high school, and we went to states a couple times. I was on the states team, and I'm what you call a mudder. So every PR that I've ever set was in the rain. So I don't know what about me makes me that way, but I love these things. They're a lot of fun. That's funny. There's race horses like that, too.

There's race horses like that too that will perform much better on a muddy track. It keeps you cool is what I found because I think I just heat up with. So like the rain keeps the legs cool and keeps you moving. But I don't know what they would do with the golf side. So maybe that's like a golfing range or something that they set up inside these stadiums. It's interesting that it's in the stadiums potentially. You could have driving contests,

but mostly it's like, I mean, what I see is people will do charity-focused, golf scrambles and stuff like that, and all the golf nerds come out and do it. And I make fun of them as golf nerds. I go to the same, I now am one of the middle-aged dudes who goes to cycling events

and like stays in a house with a bunch of other dudes. and then wakes up at 5 a.m. voluntarily to cycle 100 miles and 100 degree heat. So I understand. That sounds like fun. It's amazing. I'm a huge fan. Trade cycling out for running or skiing and I'm there. It's the cycling part that would get me.

I would do the rest of that. It's this weird middle age thing. And Heather, I don't know if you're getting this too, but like I'm gravitating towards just like hour after hour of suffering for some reason. I don't know why it's fun. but like I'm going cycling tonight. It'll be 105 degrees and like I'll feel like vomiting for an hour and a half. Like, and I'm like, I ask permission for my wife to go do this.

I'm like, hey, can I go cycling tonight? That's what I'm amazing to do it in the heat. That is, you know, that's too much for me. I'm with John. Like as soon as summer hit here, I stop jogging. I'll start jogging again when it cools off. You're in so cold. You just have to jog at five in the morning because that's not that, you know,

right. Well, that's, I can't do that either. Yeah, no. And I'm in SoCal. It's not even that hot. Then I still can't do it. So back to this deal, it sounds like their business is partnering and reserving venues with local folks,

potentially local nonprofits and local venues. Then they go and they figure out a way to promote that to potential attendees. Then they take donations slash sponsorships slash, slash fees from the athletes and then they contract with their own people who are probably the head producers of these things and then local event folks who provide staff

and stuff like that. And that's the business and they make more money from donations and presales than they spend on marketing and production. Is that what we think? I think so. I'm interested in so So the only time I've ever attempted to rent a stadium, it's only been one time, and it was for Holdco Comp.

So we got to tour the Cavs Arena last year, and I don't know how, like, it was ridiculous. It was so much money. It was like a quarter of a million dollars for a day, I think, or like two days. So I don't know how this business could support that unless you're host. I don't know. I just want to know the dynamics of Vennel. menu rentals. If you're renting it for a large-scale event for a day or two to host these big events,

I mean, that's some pretty real money for only $12 million a year in revenue. Do you think the stadiums are donating some of that time because there's charity participation involved or charities are benefiting? I wonder. Maybe. I don't know. I mean, or maybe the sponsors are the stadium owners and that's a part of it. I don't know.

Well, that's a point. My guess is where they list this Major League Baseball, NFL, and MLS stadiums. That's just totally a red herring. Like, you can, for example, there are subvenues for our NBA stadium here in St. Antonio, or we have a big arena where they have had NFL games in the past. So it qualifies as an NFL stadium. Oh, sure. You do it in the parking lot.

You know, it's pretty straightforward. So I think that's really a red herring. We've seen this before, John. and just some random listings where they'll, like, they'll throw in NHL and, like, Hall of Fame stuff. And you're like, wait, that actually doesn't mean anything. They're just, it's a broker trying to woo you into giving some cachet to it. But I think, you know, if you look at this,

it seems like what you're buying is a brand. So they have these three different products that they're doing. So you're buying the brand. Then potentially you're buying a customer list. So there's a repeat customer list. And then you're buying some relationships. And probably some expertise. Are those, those are really the four things?

Is there anything else I'm really buying when I buy this business? I feel like I'm wondering how customer acquisition works. So, like, if I'm, you know, Spartan, all those seem to be very social media driven. So maybe you're getting the channels, maybe you're getting the outreach that they have. Because you could do a lot more with that. I mean, maybe there's gear, maybe there's swag. Maybe there's all this other stuff that you could do inside that vertical with that audience. So I don't think I would discount that

because that's probably how it launched. I think events can be really interesting. They can have some very interesting revenue channels. To your point, John, I looked at one once where it was really magazines basically was what the business looked like, but really the magazines went to specific lists

in specific industries. They'd get a good enough subscriber base. And the real business was holding events, was holding conferences and bringing them. And that's where they made their money. I think there's probably some interesting other revenue channels and some interesting ways that they earn this $2.7 million, which is really pretty good margin. All right. Taking a quick pause here, I have something to tell you. This is Michael. I hate bookkeeping. I hate bookkeeping. I hate doing HR. I hate doing all that kind of stuff. But for bookkeeping, I have found a solution. It is my friend Charlie's business called cloudbookkeeping.com. So that's cloudbookkeeping.com. They are your perfect partner. if you want to get bookkeeping out of your hair

and focus on making your company, your customers happier and more successful. So please give them a call, call Charlie, cloudbookkeeping.com, tell them we sent you. They're a great way. If you're a business buyer, if you're a business owner,

you're tired of hassling with getting your bookkeeping done. He's got a whole fleet of people that are well-trained and work for him. He's located here in St. Antonio, so I can tell you because of that, he's awesome. and they're a great partner for you to potentially call to help with all your bookkeeping needs

so you can do the important stuff in your business rather than worry about getting your books right. So give Charlie a call, cloudbookkeeping.com, and now back to the episode. My favorite equivalent business to that is like the Business Journal business, you know, like the Orange County Business Journal or the, is there an Akron Business Journal?

Do you guys have one? John, or is it combined with another town? Yeah, there's a, there are, are, it's like Cleveland has one. It's called the Cranes Business. Might be Crane's Business Journal, but it's Cranes. Yeah. So if you look at it, like, those are actually just like, the advertising and the subscriptions don't matter. It's, do they sell like three and $5,000 tables to luncheons? Like, just over and over again. They'll be like, congratulations, you won. That'll be $5,000 for a table. Please invite all your friends and here's some chicken. Is it pretty strange? I've seen that.

I wonder how they're attracting folks to this, and it probably is an interesting customer list, but this sounds like kind of recreational. So it's not like you're getting, you know, a really valuable customer list in a particular industry because it's golf and running, which a wide variety of people,

obviously are going to be interested in just having fun at these kinds of events, is my thought. Oh, you know what? It occurred to me. I haven't talked about the revenue perspective. I need to come back to you. I'm so sorry. Let me do that.

And then I want to give you a thesis about this business. 2021, they did $9.1 million in revenue. and then $2.7 million in EBIDA. In 2022, they did $10.6 million in revenue and $3.2 million in EBIDA. In 2023, they're planning on doing $12.2 million in revenue and $2.7 million in EBDA and then continue to grow 12 to 15% year over year, basically a 25%ish or so margins. So back to your point, Heather, I bet you dollars to donuts. they're, you know, besides event, kind of putting on the events,

their number one cost center is Instagram ads. I bet you they spend a million and a half dollars a year on Instagram ads. I bet you they just write a big check to meta. And that's how they get these folks. Yeah, influencers on their page, I'm sure, lots of that. Yeah, because you've got to attract people to this. And that's the whole deal. Obviously, we're looking at 21 forward.

And, of course, 20, they probably couldn't have events or could they? If they were totally outdoor, maybe they could have events in the parking lot. It said they, it says in here the company hosts the largest virtual running event. So maybe it was something that gained steam because of COVID. But obviously, yeah, we don't have that number here. But that would be interesting to see. I'm sure the virtual came up because of, because of COVID. Yeah, let's Google that.

Who runs the largest virtual? Are we allowed to break the third wall here? Oh, yeah. That's part of the, that's part of the whole deal. is usually when Bill and Heather, here they start talking, and I spend five minutes trying to seriously Google and figure out what the company is.

Okay, so I've got metal dash, metal dash.com, advertising themselves as the largest virtual, oh, no, they're the virtual run platform. So it doesn't seem like they're doing their current events. Take a look here. Yeah, and you have to imagine there's probably, there's probably 500 different events

that claim they're the largest virtual run, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who's to say? You know, that's not like publicly listed data of attendees per month or whatever. Yeah.

Well, look, I think something I love about this business, like, you're making people healthier in theory. You're helping charity. You're creating activity. Sense of community. Like, there's a lot of kind of, it's not like we're selling toxic waste here. Like, this is a good thing that this exists in the, world. Another thing I love, and they talk about it here, is, you know, we talk about this on the show

a lot, John, is like, what does my cash conversion cycle look like? And I think you talked about this when you were here before. Like, do you want to own a commercial HVAC company, or do you want to own one that sells to consumers? Well, it turns out consumers have one thing nice, which is they don't expect 30-day payment terms. Like, you give them a check, like when you show up to the house, so that helps with your cash conversion cycle. Yeah. And I think this deal is awesome. to some extent because people swipe their credit card three, six, nine months ahead of time. I'm signed up, by the way, and I gave money to a cycling event that's not even this year. They've had my money for almost a year.

Well, it's the same with, you know, we had Holy Co Conf last year, and we've had money in the bank from attendees that signed up right after that, and it was 13 months later is the actual event. I mean, that's like the most negative networking capital I've ever experienced. It's a wonderful thing. But aren't they laying out, like you said, a lot of Instagram dollars or, you know, all the promotion that they've got to spend. And I don't know. I think for something like this, maybe a small percentage are signing up early. You know, if they're holding it a big venue, they've got plenty of capacity.

So it's not like you have to sign up early. I don't know. I'm guessing. I think it's more of like you plan your life around it. Because I think most people that attend events are aspirational. So if I'm, you know, I have a lot of friends. I'm in all these running groups and they'll be like, hey, I am picking up my running cadence, you know, their weekly mileage because I signed up for a marathon six months

from now. And the process of swiping the card is that I have to do this. So it's like the motivation that in six months from now, like ready or not, you know, here I come, 26.2. So I think that people sign up aspirationally earlier because there's not many people, that will sign up for a marathon next week without knowing four months ago that they were going to do a marathon.

That's right. You're right. If these are marathons, I don't know, I'm still puzzling over what the golfing events are and what the other third event might be. My money is there like, yeah,

there's some sort of golf scramble. And like that 100 mile ride that I did in 100 degree heat, by the way, like I ended up doing it. I heard it sucked from other people. And my buddies are like, no, no, it's awesome. You've got to come do this.

It turned out it wasn't awesome. But I got to do with my buddies and we had a good time and there's like that element of, you know, you're getting recruited in by your friends to do it. Yeah. Personally, I like this business. I think it's kind of interesting. I think it would be fun. I think live events are a lot of fun. And I think doing something around like sporting would be fun.

I think the only challenging part would be like how good is the team? like am I gone all over the U.S. to help host events or is the team doing that? Because that's, you know, this is a life disruption. Every month I'm flying all over the place. But like the business itself, this sounds like fun. This sounds like a good time. It's a good business. Yeah. Heather, what do you think this should sell for? Oh, I was just thinking that through. I feel like it almost three million of EBITDA and pretty consistent. I I'm guessing a six or a seven multiple. Maybe I'm going too cheap there, but six or seven. So this is not a good candidate for, oh, John, by the way,

Acquisitions Anonymous. We're now talking about buying a business live on the radio. I think it's probably not a good one for it. We're not buying this one. No. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I think we would be dumb not to buy one, John, that couldn't benefit from our audience.

And like, our audience has nothing to do with this. We're too busy buying businesses to go out and play golf. That's what I have to say. But I think, yeah, I think buying one would be fun because then it's, you know, just chronicle the journey. Like, hey, totally. Last week, last week we destroyed it. Okay, yeah, I think John, I mean, now that I've, by the way, John, I'm trying to

do better now of just saying what I like about companies before I start to poop on them. I think what you're thinking about here is, invariably, like, your summer is going to be spent in the meadowlands outside of New York City because your, you know, your lead producer gets sick and can't make it because she has COVID or he has COVID, and you're going to be the one out there, travel all over the place. And you have 5,000 people that just flew in to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, that's the sucky thing about events. Like, you've got one day to do it right, and that party's got to go off without, you know, without a hitch and everything's got to be perfect and you only get one

shot at it. I think that's the downside of this. But in theory, if you've been doing it for as long as these guys have, like, maybe you really know how to do it. You just make it happen. Yeah, I think, I think some of the missing information that would help get more comfort around that is like how many are there a year? You know, if you have like three a year, to me, that's almost more of a life disruption because your team's not that. You don't have that many reps. Whereas if you were doing like 20 a year, I'd be like, oh, okay, like these guys kind of got, they're doing two a month. Like, they got this. We have contingencies in place for the times when things go bad.

But yeah, I think on the surface it looks fun, but it wouldn't be for me with two young kids. No. Heather, so you're going to write a check for this one, or what are you thinking? I cannot write a check for this one, but I think this goes to a strategic probably, again, because of the size and someone who, a business that are a private equity fund or someone that already runs events and has some kind of bad. back office support and more of a team. And that's kind of what I think this, where this goes.

I was talking to someone the other day on Twitter. And it was exactly this. I have never thought of event companies as a tradable business. And I'm obviously wrong in thinking that, or maybe I'm wrong. But I was talking to a few people on Twitter and they reached out to me. And there were several people in a day or two that are rolling up event companies. And I did not know that that is something that you could even do. I thought that that was a very, it strikes me more as like a gig type thing.

But maybe if you're doing it at scale, I don't know. I've seen a private equity acquired events company. And actually it did, it actually boomed during COVID because of the virtual events and the way that they kind of pivoted and then pivoted back over. What was interesting is as they pivoted back to in person, their margins went down. You know, so there was, there was, they actually did better while the virtual was going on. But that was a private equity acquired company. I followed them since.

And they've, their playbook is going well. They're adding different events that are kind of ancillary to it. And it's really an interesting business. So they do, they do trade. I like this one. Kudos to me for finding it. Great job. 10 out of 10.

Host of the day award. Good job. Brow to you. Somebody should check this one out. And I'm very curious when we post this episode for people to, kind of teaches about this space. This feels like one of those ones where, you know, if I was going to go dig into this business,

I would want to go, like, talk to every event business for sale, talk to every owner. And really, there's some stuff that, you know, when I talk the way we're talking about this, I'm like, there's some stuff we need to know, and we just don't know what we don't know. And the way to do that is go talk to a bunch of sellers. So this would be a good one.

Good one to dig into it. And it's a great, it's a good business. I mean, this is a good business. So, okay. Anything else? Well, so thank you to Holdco Conf for being here. And how could people find again about HoldcoConf? HoldcoConf.com or follow me on Twitter at the Wilson Companies.

So it's September 18th through the 20th here in Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah, super cool. Well, I'm excited to be there. And then thanks to Axiol for providing the deal today. If you want to look at bigger deals that are higher quality businesses, this ain't no, John, this ain't no Northern Ohio HFAT company. That's what I'm saying. Ooh.

I felt it. I felt it. Yeah. Yeah. You feel it down in your booties? Anyway. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I hope that part of the video ends up on the pod. I really do because I feel like the public needs to know. We didn't record that. I mean, we can for the next episode. We'll set the record straight. All right.

I'll click stop and we'll see everybody next week.