Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - Selling $9mm of golf clubs a year?! - Acquisitions Anonymous e69

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

We're joined this week by Justin Turner (Twitter @JustinNicholasT), Partner at Traction Capital.He is an experienced finance professional with a background in investment banking, private equity, and corporate development.This episode was recorded live at @SMB_ash in front of a 100 person audience.-----* Do you like our content? Rate our show in your favorite platform!* Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel* Follow us on twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations.-----Past guests on Acquanon include Nick Huber, Brent Beshore, Aaron Rubin, Mike Botkin, Ari Ozick, Mitchell Baldridge, Xavier Helgelsen, Mike Loftus, Steve Divitkos, Dzmitry Miranovich, Morgan Tate and more.-----Additional episodes you might enjoy:#62 Two Landscaping Businesses for Sale - Mike Loftus CEO of Connor's Landscaping#66 Analyzing Software Businesses for Sale with Steve Divitkos, experienced industry CEO#42 $900k Moving and Storage Company / $500k Rural Mini-Storage#61 Two Manufacturing Businesses for Sale - Brent Beshore - Founder and CEO at Permanent Equity#24 $5mm pool services and lifeguard staffing co / $2mm septic services business -  featuring baller @WilsonCompanies as a special guest!#45 $800k/yr cleaning business in Midland, TX / a $565k/yr window cleaning business in San Antonio, TX #48 Two Landscaping Businesses for Sale - Mike Botkin of Benchmark Group--- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dealtalk/supportSubscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

All right, welcome back to another episode of Acquisitions Anonymous. We are the Internet's number one podcast about acquiring small businesses. And today, it's a very special episode. We are coming to you live from SMBash, which is the world's number one conference about buying small businesses. How's that for Synergy? So we're here on stage at SMBash in beautiful Orlando, Florida with about 100 people staring at us right now. Very excited to be here with everybody. We are going to try to allow for a little bit of audience participation later in the podcast.

We'll see how that goes. But as our guest today, we have two deals, but also a guest, Justin Turner from Traction Capitals here with us, sub it in from Mills, who is down with COVID. So, Justin, tell everybody a little bit about kind of who you are, what you do, et cetera. Yeah, so I'm Justin Turner. I help run Tracks Capital Partners. We're an investment firm based up in Seattle, Washington. We're focused on acquiring businesses based Colorado and West with $1 to $5 million in EBITDA.

We've got four businesses. in the portfolio right now, two in Washington and two in Oregon. Prior to traction, I was in investment banking and private equity. So looking forward to the pod today. Thanks for having me on guys. Of course, glad to have you. All right. I'll throw it over to Michael, who will take us through our first deal. All right. So we asked the audience to send us to talk about today. And the first one comes courtesy of Kelsey. Kelsey, you recognize this one? By the way, this, I kind of look through this. This is the most graphic designed teaser I've ever seen in my whole life. So it's amazing to start with. It is called bomb tech golf, no pros, no retail, just premium clubs without the

premium price tag. And then they have pictures of golf clubs in case you didn't know what those are. And they have little bombs on the side of them. So pretty fancy. It's brought to market by triangle capital. I don't know. Never heard of triangle capital. So what here? We moved to growth. Okay. Company highlights. They offer golf clubs with unmatched combination of value and performance. So it's a D2C online brand with strong social media following. They have a product design process during my customer feedback who doesn't. Customer service focused with highly engaged customer based and asset light model outsourced with low overhead. So I'm guessing they are working with contract manufacturers to build these golf clubs that they then sell to consumers.

Does that way you guys are reading this? Okay. Yep. Sounds like a business. So they go straight to growth opportunities here in the second slide. That's optimism. They optimize inventory buying. You can optimize inventory.

buying and marketing strategy to continue to drive revenue and exist. Oh my God, that's the worst sentence. Version 4 of BombTech is totally ready to be launched, and you can see it all entirely sold through BombTechGolf.com. Which is no small thing, right? So this is 100% D2C business. No Amazon, no retail, nothing. They're selling these golf clubs, two people on their website.

Oh, and here are numbers. Okay, so they do have a slide with numbers in them. So they have 633,000 clubs shipped since inception, 15,000 reviews, 120, 3,000. Facebook followers, 297,000 email subscribers. Are any of you guys golfers? If so, what's wrong with you? No, I'm just kidding. How many of you have heard of this brand that you're a golfer?

Raise your hand. One. What's the reputation of this brand? Is it a good one? Yeah, no, so no idea. It's not a common brand. So interesting. Okay.

They do a lot of advertising. So that's good to know. They average order values $180. They're projecting revenue this year or this previous year, $9 million. $55.3% gross margin and 15.6 EBITA margin. So far so good. Yeah, that sounds pretty good to me. Yeah.

Just former investment banker here, I noticed that they have a footnote beside four stars. There's actually no footnote on the page, so I'd probably pass on this. Dang. Oh, that's very, very insightful. So they claim to be disrupting the golf industry. All right, so here's some more about it entirely independently. owned and operated by its founder, run very conservatively, and is seeking a buyer for its next stage of growth, and the founder is focused on transferring yada, yada, yada, growth opportunities, and some

brokers. I think that covers the whole thing. What do we think about this one? Justin, I'll let you go first. I've done some work in the golf space. I think one of your challenges is, as we just saw with show of hands, one person has heard of this brand, but everybody's heard of titleist paying PXG. It's very brand dominated. And even if you're not like a golfer, you want to have name brand clubs in your bag. The thing about golf is when you suck at golf, it's not about you. It's that you need new clubs. So there's always these, you know, the technology in the clubs is really big.

And which is kind of good, I think, because you can convince people, oh, if I just buy this new club, I'll be good at golf. It hasn't worked for me yet. Yeah, it hasn't worked for me yet either. But so on the surface, as the resident D2C guy, I don't hate this. And here's a couple things that I like about it. they've doubled revenue year over year from four and a half to nine coming out of what I imagine was a big COVID bump in 2020.

So they've, from 2020 to 2021, they have sustained a doubling, which I think is pretty good. They've got almost 700,000 clubs out in the wild, which is the cool thing about golf too is if you're playing golf with a buddy and he's good and he has a bomb tech thing in his hand, you go, where did you get that club? Like, is that what, you know, it's kind of a little inherently viral. And they've got 300,000 email subscribers. It seems like they've built this brand the right way. And my favorite thing here is they got a 15% EBITDA margin.

They're not losing their ass. Doubling every year and not losing your ass on marketing is pretty hard in ecom. One thing I hate here is the 55% gross margin. That is really tough. They don't tell us here how they define gross margin. But to give you guys an idea, like our businesses, we will spend sometimes 40% of sales on marketing, Facebook and Instagram, things like that to scale. So on one hand, I go, that gross margin is pretty low because by the time I spend 40% on marketing,

there ain't much left for all my overhead, et cetera. On the flip side, they've got that shit gross margin and still, you know, 15% EBITDA, and they're doubling, which means they've been able to do that without spending 40% of sales on marketing, which I like. So I think there's something here. My biggest question is, how are you, why are you doubling? Where is the customer's coming from to people come back and buy more than one iron, things like that? 47% increase over 2021. You got to wonder how much that was COVID.

Well, your year growth, right? Over 2020, but over 2020. 2020 was the big COVID year. I mean, I bet they got a big 2020 COVID bomb too. Well, $180 average order value. If you're buying a set of clubs, that leads me to believe people are probably buying one to two wedges or, you know, one to two irons from this business. They're not buying a whole set from these guys. So I'd be curious, what does their product catalog look like?

Do they offer everything from putters through drivers or is it really focused around the wedges and some of the irons? Yeah. Well, so it seems like this is at first glance a pretty decent business that we like. What would be the first kind of questions in your mind if you went to go look at this, say post-NDA? I would have initially major supply chain questions because I'm almost confident these are Asian made. I mean, I don't think anybody, unless a reg has started making golf clubs in the foundries, I don't think you can get this stuff made in the States very easily. And I've also, I know some buddies who are tangentially in and around the golf supply chain.

And even the big brands, the titleists of the world have had a nightmare with supply chain over the last two years. Just can't get it. The grips aren't coming in. The blades, the clubs aren't coming in. So I'm interested that these guys have managed to grow so much, which tells me they have not totally run on stock. But I want to really understand who's making these. What are my margins? Can they scale?

I'd also want to understand if these golf clubs are any good. There's a lot of shit golf clubs out there, right? Is it possible that these are just very average mediocre golf clubs with a brand and a bunch of Instagram ads? So I want to understand really what I'm buying here. Am I buying an Instagram marketing machine or am I actually buying good clubs? Yeah. I mean, there's, you know, stepping back a bit, the one thing I love about this is just the nature of the customers. Like, you're selling to a lot of boomers on Facebook who have a lot of money to spend on golf clubs to make themselves less terrible.

at golf. And so that's pretty exciting. I would be curious to dig in post-India and understand how much of this is actually truly recurring or reoccurring in terms of being able to go back to these Facebook followers. What are their recurring, you know, recurring purchase statistics and all that kind of stuff look like. I think that's where you, you want to understand if there's $123,000, they're claiming is actually important, you know, in terms of Facebook followers or their email subscribers. It is interesting. They basically have shipped two clubs for every email subscriber they have. That's pretty, I think that's pretty good. Yeah. You know, the cool thing about golf, kind of as you mentioned, Michael, is that people spend a lot of money playing golf.

Like, this is a good customer set. You know, people spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Yeah, we got some comments. Can someone bring the man of Mike? Oh, he's got one. Go ahead. Yeah. Sure.

Elliot Holland from Guardian due diligence. I also wonder, even if that's one thing, but what you're actually buying is free cash flow. So I wonder what their free cash flow is because they have to fund inventory, right? So 15% margins are not all that high if you have to fund inventory. So I wonder how quickly the inventory turns. and sort of how are they funding? And if you look at a net cash flow basis, how much juice is in that squeeze?

Great point. And actually, some of my favorite businesses that I've been able to buy are businesses that are in that crunch. They're growing, and they're throwing all their cash back in inventory. And the owner's like,

screw this, man, I have no money. I'm just ready to take some money off the table. And the only way they can see to get some cash in their pocket is to sell the business. So there's a great opportunity to buy the business, use some debt financing for the inventory, if you actually can model that cash conversion cycle. And you don't have the same strats that guy has.

We got more from the audience. Yeah. So when I saw on page two, the, hey, here's all the ways you can make this grow. And oh, by the way, our next club is, it's, it's, the design's done. It's ready, man. My first thought was, yeah, this is a major cash crunch. And they can't get it out of Asia. They can't get it produced.

So, like, yeah, we had great. But we didn't fund the inventory we needed for the next round, right? And they may have a ton of obsolete inventory from versions one and two from that club as well. Is there an asking price on this thing anywhere? They do not have an asking price. They do not have an asking price. So if they're going to do $9 million in revenue at a 15% EBITDA margin, you know, they're probably 1.4 of EBITDA.

You know, I would expect this business to trade for $5 million, maybe $7.5 million bucks. Will you say that, Justin? Yeah, I think that's a good range. How many people here would pay four times for this business? No one? Oh, man, Thrasier is going to eat your audience. You better watch out. Three for this business?

One, we got one bidder, two bidders at three X. Do we hear a two and a half X? You better. We also didn't want to compete against you. This is not lotions and potions. That's where Bill plays. So you don't have to worry about a good walk spoiled here. I mean, I really think so. I think this business is worth four times. I mean, without just, you know, without having a seeing any of the diligence info, you know, assuming there's nothing like structurally wrong with it, the fact that it is profitable, it's growing fast. It's 100% D to C, which means they're not relying on Amazon. So Amazon would probably be an interesting growth opportunity for this business, especially because golf clubs are kind of painting the out to ship, right? They're long and heavy and kind of oversized. Sometimes you can get creamed on Amazon for that.

sometimes if you can creatively package it, they can fulfill it cheaper than you ever could. So kind of moving on to Amazon capturing some of that demand, also moving to some of the other marketplaces like Walmart Marketplace or trying to sell it on Dix.com, you know, some of these other retailers that have marketplace. I'm not sure if Dix does, but some of the supporting good retailers do. I think you could scale this business. I mean, I just love a business that is scaling and is all website, 100%. When I think this point about them being in a cash crunch, that's one of my favorite things

about, well, A, this podcast and B, reading these teasers, is you try to suss out what's the real story behind the bullshit they're putting on here. And you can see exactly your point. Optimize inventory buying and marketing strategy you can drive revenue in existing business. Like, hello, we are out of money and we don't want to take out a loan because the company has been run very conservatively. That is also code for I don't want to reinvest in the business like I need to to grow it. So maybe presents an opportunity here. So I love that. It's also part of the fun of all this mystery. You get to guess. What's wrong with these people?

And how am I the right person to fix them? If I were coming in, to your point, this is the type of business where you want to figure out your working capital financing way before closing, right? During diligence, you're trying to figure out exactly what the cash conversion cycle of this business is, how much you need to tie up an inventory and for how long, and you want to be working with your bank, especially if it's SBA, this is the type of thing where you're going to need a line of credit probably in addition to your term loan, or you're going to need to upsize your term loan to make sure there's going to be cash on the balance sheet in order to fund

this working cap. To Bill's earlier point and playing off that, if these guys are manufacturing everything over in China, that adds a whole layer of complexity on that comment around working capital. If they're producing the states, you may be able to work out some improvements on the working capital side of things, but you're going to struggle if you're having to buy container loads of this. Yeah. We got a question. Yeah, I'd want to know there, you've touched on a little bit with number of clubs and I think the other stats of the newsletter subscribers, but I want to know the LTV, but also I'd want to know with golf, the thing that people tend to buy over and over again are the drivers. So I'd want to see like the mix of clubs sold and are they actually selling irons

or people continue to, you know, use those? Are they selling somebody the 4.0 driver after they bought the 3.0 the year before? Because if you're really into golf, you know, you might be buying the new tailor-made driver almost every year. Yeah, I'm just seeing what their product development pipeline looks like, who their engineers are, what they're focused on. Hey, I was hoping to bounce back. Working capital speculate. How much do you think they'd actually need? It's hard to know without kind of seeing behind the curtain here.

But the way I would start to think about it is kind of at Justice's point. When do I have to pay my factory, right, assuming the factory is in China? When do I have to pay them? How many terms am I going to get? How many months of net 30, net 60, net 90? I'd be willing to bet it's probably net 30. Then how long does it have to sit on the boat, right? then how long does it have to sit in my warehouse, then how long does my customer take to pay me?

So I would add up all of those time horizons and let's say it's six months. And you're going to have the challenge of if they are manufacturing over in Asia, you as a new buyer coming in may not be able to get the same terms with that supplier overseas. Because they don't trust you yet. Exactly. Right. So you need to really understand that. So if you think it takes you six months from the time you pay the supplier until the time you

collect from your customer and you think over the next over the coming 12 months you're going to have you know three million dollars of cogs for the year you probably need one and a half million dollars of float I mean it's very back of the envelope right but you need probably six it's going to take you six months you need to flow cogs for six months so what do you think your cut six months of cogs is going to be that's kind of where I would start for a working capital target so may we we move on a deal too yep let's move on so raise your hand if you like this one do we like it Will we sign a one time Zibada? Do we have one time Zibada?

All right. We got some buyers at that. So this is a sellable business. All right. For those of you that tell us we always hate every single business, remember this moment. It has changed your life. Okay. All right.

Let's go into deal number two. All right, well, Michael switched over deal number two. Just want to thank our sponsor, SMBash for having us the world's number one conference for buying and selling small businesses, I assume, taking place again in 2023. Yes, maybe no formal commitment. Okay. Okay, so... Go ahead, Michael.

Deal number two is listed as a leading provider of e-commerce, brand, acceleration, and sales enablement. Kelsey, Kelsey, did you send us this one, too? Kelsey, everybody? Two from two from two. Well to go. Well to go. Way to go. This one's called Project Platform.

It's a nimble tech-enabled platform that generates revenue via three primary sales channels, e-commerce marketplace, broadline technology distributors, and direct-to-resellers. The companies internally developed logistics. software enables OEMs to sell the same skew across multiple channels with real-time pricing, inventory, quotes, order entry, and reporting. So what does this company do? It's a distributor. Okay.

All right, cool. There's a lot of jargon to say there. Yeah, I mean, geez. If you'll panned a little bit to the right, Michael, it'll show folks in the audience who they sell. You see in here, BenQ, Kipps, you know, Fujitsu, Dell, Samsung. These guys resell technology products on Amazon, for the most part. probably not just on Amazon.

They buy, what it's not clear is whether they buy them from directly from Dell or whether they buy them for, say, Dell master distributors that have extra inventory they're trying to liquidate. Some, and I assume in the, you know, after signing India, you'd understand exactly how they sourced it. But they've got everything, they say they do everything from projectors, monitors, scanners, storage, headsets, memory, routers, laptops, basically anything with a plug on it, right?

So these guys buy from those brands and then they sell it on Amazon? Simply, yes. Why did they just say that? Well, because that would be a very low margin, low multiple business, Michael. Oh, this is a proprietary platform. Maybe we'll get there. All right, they have numerous products that they've also marketed under private label and propriety in-house brands sold through various e-commerce marketplace and distribution network partners.

And their core companies include brand protection. So I guess they sue people over IP. Channel conflict management. When Dale gets mad that yourself. link their stuff on Amazon. Map policy complaint and enforcement. What is map? Do we know? Minimum advertised price. Okay. MSRB. Optimization, fulfillment, customer service, and account management. All right. So they sell a bunch of crap. And then where did that go? If you didn't realize this was

distributor before, wait until you see their EBITDA margins. All right. So 2019, they did 41 million in revenue. They did a gross profit of 9.4 million and adjusted EBITA was 6%, so 2.6 million. 2020 actuals, they grew to 54 million, 31% increase, 10 million in gross profit and 3.4 million in adjusted EBTA. Definitely curious what the adjustments are. And 2021 estimated was another 18% growth year, gross profit of 12.4 million and adjusted EBIT on 4.6. So 41, 54, 63, 2, 3, 4 in terms of stuff and you will be shocked to know that they're projecting 2022 to magically accelerate by 50% and sell 95 million at an 18 million gross profit and a justity but of 7.3 million higher profitability than the three previous years and their trajectory. All that needs to happen is for you

to buy this business and suddenly it starts growing 50% a year. I do. Just me showing up. They've been laying the ground work for years, obviously. All right. So then they have second page here. Oh boy, look at this word salad. Proprietary software system. So it sounds like they've actually built their internal software to manage all this stuff. So there's some assets to that. They have a high barrier to entry. So they have some certain products where they're the only value added or non-value added distributor, lots of what they consider expenses that others, somebody would have to set up to compete with them and ability to manage channel conflicts. That doesn't really sound like a

period of entry, it sounds like terrible. Cool. They're a top 1% Amazon third party seller and grow, strong management team, yada, yada, yada. What do we think? Okay, so this is a very specific type of business. There are a lot of these. So what this is is if you're Dell, you don't know jack shit about Amazon. Your stuff is making it onto Amazon because you don't have a tight hold of your supply chain, right?

So your Dell monitors are on Amazon. They're not at Map at MSRP. they're not sold by typically reputable people. So customers might be having a bad experience from the people who they actually bought it from. And it's tarnishing your brand. So what Dell says is we don't want to know about Amazon or any of the other distributors, Ingram Micro. Dell doesn't want to deal with all these marketplaces. But they also know that their products are on there and it's a shit brand experience.

So this type of distributor basically pops up and goes, Dell, you make me your authorized distributor, give me good enough pricing. And I will go to Amazon. I will covenant here that I will sell it at Map only. And then I will police all the other people who are selling it below Map and kind of get them kicked off of Amazon. I will meet a minimum level of customer service to make sure that people aren't having a shit experience with your brand, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I will pay you on time and info. And so Dell goes great. You know, now I don't have to think about Amazon.

I just give this guy a few points on margin. And I don't think about it anymore. This happens in every category, not just electronics, electronics happens to be a large category, so there's a lot of people doing this, but half the stuff on Amazon is not sold directly by the brand. It is my strong belief that this is a market inefficiency, and over time, the brands will come to Amazon directly and cut these people out. It is already, this was, by the way, five years ago, totally rampant. No brands knew how to do Amazon, and e-commerce savvy people were just raking in tons of money being these Amazon middle. men. This industry, the margins or the last five years have compressed dramatically. That's why you see kind of

7%, 6% EBITDA margins. It used to be 20, 30, you know, a lot higher. And more and more of the brands are saying, we realize we've got to control this end to end and we're not outsourcing this to a distributor. So this I don't love the long-term product next for this business model.

What do you think, Justin? Do we own a distribution business? One of the things we like about ours is we have exclusivity in territories for a very specific product line. With this, you're probably not going to, at least long term, you're not going to have exclusivity at all on the products that you're selling. There's going to be hundreds of other people on Amazon selling the same Samsung monitor. So you are really only going to compete on price at that point, which is, in my mind, going to make that EBIT dot margin go the opposite

direction of their projections. Yep. So your distribution business, I think, is a lot better because what you actually have is proprietary distribution, right? Right. Like you actually take these products out to the firehouses. Correct. Yeah. This distributor has like four customers, which are Amazon, Ingram Micro, like these huge companies. Anyone can sell Dell monitors to Amazon.

There's nothing exclusive about that. Right. And the places distributors are really value add to brands or manufacturers are when they bring literally distribution, right, that is proprietary. Right. And the ability to have some sort of service after the fact as well, which this business is not going to have. I think when you dig into this, I think you discover probably 80% of their businesses on Amazon.

That's my bet here. Just because you can see the way they change it from talking very generally about all the other channels. And then it's like, whoa, let's spend two burgers to talking about Amazon. And like, I bet you'd find huge customer concentration. And yeah, exactly you're talking about Amazon's going to continue to get more efficient in the face of these guys. Yeah, these businesses are great hustles. I mean, I know a lot of people who have made literally tens of millions of dollars owning these businesses. but I don't think they're creating a lot of enterprise value.

I don't know that they're necessarily transactable for big numbers here. I mean, right? Yeah, we see this all the time when we're looking at deals. This is probably a great business to own. It's not a great business to try and be the buyer of. Right. I mean, unless it does grow 50% instantly when you buy it and your EBITDA goes from 4-6 to 7-3 to 10-7, and before you know it, you're like nearly a quarter billion dollars of sales in four years,

but all you have to do is buy this, and that will happen. we talked a little bit about working capital on the last deal. What do you think the working capital challenges are going to be for a business that's doing this volume at these type of margins? Brutal, right? I mean, if you're going to grow this fast and make no profit, you know, so you've got to carry for everything that you set with margins like this, you've got to carry, what is that, 92% of the purchase price in inventory.

Right. So Dell and Epson and these guys are not giving you terms where you have, say, I mean, maybe, but probably not like huge terms, right? then probably give you net 30 maybe. Yeah, super interesting. Any comments about this before we go to the next question about it? Anyone else? Anybody's seeing businesses like this or own a business like this?

Who buys this business? I don't know. I hope no one in this room. Really? Would you take this business for free? Yeah, because it's a good business to own, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I would take this business for free, but I would not model any terminal value. You know, I would kind of say, we're going to make money. every year. Like, that's great. Maybe I would model probably a decline over time, a compressing EBidon margin. And eventually, this type of business that might do 30 million in sales and you shut it down because you can't make any money on 30 million. And you're like, why am I hustling around doing $30 million of transactions and just not making any money close up? It's like one of those weird businesses that can do $30 million and be close. Yeah, you're not going to generate a lot of cash because you're sucking it all up in inventory as you grow. So you would decide, hey, we're turning off growth.

We're going to sell out of the inventory we have and that's the end of that business. And I will say they say they've got a lot of proprietary software. And I believe that in order to do what they do well, and I bet they've got 20,000 skews, right? Like whole catalogs from these brands and distributors. In order to do that to keep it all at map, to enforce map across all the different marketplaces, to track your inventory. Like I bet they do have pretty tight systems, which is sort of a requirement. But this is one of those businesses where the only way you can make any money at all is by having good systems. It's like table stakes.

So there's like a beehive, I'm sure, of actually good process behind this business. The problem is it's just a garbage business model. So where would you think it trades? Does it trade it kind of one to two times EBITDA? One to two times EBITDA, I think. I think that's where if you're going to buy it, you can't afford to pay more than that. My guess is their expectations are significantly out of line with where it should be. Especially with that hockey stick, right?

Does anybody want to outbid bill above two times EBITDA? Anybody excited about this? I mean, I think this is one times with an earn out. It's like that kind of deal. Yeah. Do you even sign an NDA when you see this deal come through? This is not the type of business I'm interested in, personally. I want to be Dell, right?

I want to be the brand here. So what we love to do is buy brands that work with someone like this and cut them out, which should tell you about their value proposition, right? My favorite thing to do is to find a brand that goes to market through a guy like this and to cut this guy out and operate on Amazon directly. which is what all savvy brands are now trying to do. This would be a pass for us. Do you guys have any fun whatsoever?

Okay, yeah, I don't. We have fun with the golf club business, not the tech distributor. All right, let's wrap it up. So let's just, Justin, chance to give a shout out or how could people find you on the internet or connect with you? Yeah, I'm on Twitter at Justin Nicholas T. I'll be around the rest of today and tomorrow if anybody wants to chat. We've also got Peter Bell from my team sitting out here also.

So happy to answer any questions or talk about deals or anything like that. Awesome. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me on. This is fun. All right. This wraps up in our episode of Acquisitions Anonymous here at SMBash in beautiful Orlando, Florida. Thanks for having us.